Invite-Dover Town Neighbourhood Forum 28 November.

14 November 2007

Dover Town Neighbourhood Forum

Listening To Our Communities

Dear Resident
Re: The Kent Dover Town Neighbourhood Forum
Date: 28th November 2007
Time: Refreshments 6.00pm – Starts 6.30pm prompt
Location: Town Council Chambers, Maison Dieu House, Biggin Street, Dover
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I have great pleasure in extending an invitation to you to attend the Kent Dover Town Neighbourhood Forum on 28th November 2007. The meeting is to be held at the Town Council Chambers, Maison Dieu House, Biggin Street, Dover. The meeting is open to the public and will have time set aside for questions. Coffee and tea will be available from 6.00pm with Councillors from the Town, District and County in attendance. The meeting will commence at 6.30pm

The Dover Town Neighbourhood Forum for November is focussing on community safety in the Town. I enclose a copy of the draft agenda for your information.

AGENDA

Dover Town Neighbourhood Forum

Draft Agenda

Wednesday 28th November 2007 – 6.30pm start
Dover Town Council Chambers, Maison Dieu House, Biggin Street, Dover

Refreshments and an opportunity for informal discussions between members of the public and members of the Neighbourhood Forum will be available from 6.00pm

Welcome: Mr Kevin Mills, Vice Chairman
1a. Apologies
1b. Feedback to matters arising from previous meeting 25th July 2007.
1c. Any Declarations of Interest

2. Chief Inspector District Commander Roy Cottam – will provide a brief overview to his role and community safety issues facing Dover Town from a police
perspective

3. Community Safety Partnership Manager, Dover District Council, Christopher Allen will then explain the membership of the partnership and how it works with the
police to deal with the community safety issues in Dover.

4. Dover Partnership Against Crime Co-ordinator Karen Griffiths will then explain the membership of the partnership and how it works with the
other agencies to deal with the community safety issues in Dover Town

5. Neighbourhood Watch tbc

6. Small Community Capital Project Grant and Local Schemes Grant
recommendations

Date of next meeting – TBC

There will be an opportunity for questions throughout the course of the meeting.

Members of the Dover Town Neighbourhood Forum Area

Chair: Vacant
Vice Chair: Cllr Kevin Mills, Dover District Council

Dover Town County Councillor
Cllr William Newman
Cllr Gordon Cowan

Dover Wards and Councillors
Buckland ~ Cllr Mr Allt, Cllr Bannister & Cllr Mrs Tranter
Castle ~ Cllr Mr Collor
Maxton, Elms Vale & Priory ~ Cllr Mrs Munt, Cllr Viv Revell & Cllr Mr Walkden
St Radigund’s ~ Cllr Mr Mills & Cllr Mr Tranter
Tower Hamlets ~ Cllr Mrs Sansum & Cllr Mrs Smallwood
Town & Pier ~ Cllr Mr Hood

Dover Town Councillors
Buckland ~ Cllr Mr Allt, Cllr Mr Lloyd, Cllr Mrs Tranter & Cllr Mr Tranter
Castle ~ Cllr Mr Hannent & Cllr Mr Shrubb
Maxton, Elms Vale & Priory Ward ~ Cllr Mr Little, Cllr Mr Matcham, Cllr Ms Morgan & Cllr Mr Royston
St Radigund’s ~ Cllr Ms Jones, Cllr Ms Smallwood & Cllr Mr Tant
Tower Hamlets ~ Cllr Mr Philpott, Cllr Mr Markham & Cllr Mrs Young
Town & Pier ~ Cllr Mr Cowan & Cllr Mr Burt

Guest 640 wrote:
This should be quite an interesting one so anyone with concerns over community safety would be well advised to attend. Lots of useful information usually available on tap.

Note that they still havent updated their Councillor List. Long time out of date because I remember our Terry Nunn at the time, early 2007 I think it was, pointing out the errors on it. Those errors are still there. Note Cllr Ken Tranter for example....

oh dear! if they cant get it right what hope for the rest of us.
Vic matcham, River wrote:
Just to tell you I am now not a town councillor but still a cllr at River.

Vic Matcham
Guest 640 wrote:
Ah yes Vic I realise that too...however the top posting is the way the information is sent to me so I dont interefere with it. Its a press release of sorts. But just thought I better point out the errors in it as we have had discussion on this before.
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
seems like just another talking shop, as you say the list of councillors is so out of date.

howard
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
seems like just another talking shop, as you say the list of councillors is so out of date.

howard
keth, Dover wrote:
I believe this group can be good for Dover if used correctly.

It is a shame they havn't yet corrected the cllrs list,
I will contact the lady concerned today to tell her.
I'M one to avoid talking shops, but this is one that is making decisions local to Dover, is likely to hold budgets very soon,
gives out grants to worthy causes every year already
so hardly a talking shop.

We need to get behind it

To not do so wil allow KCC to say it isn't workng and take it all back to Maidstone to make decisions by people not even from Dover!

So come on, get behind this body, they need your support.

keith
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
it appears to me that these forums are just a a con by the people in charge to allow people to give their views and pretend that the leaders are listening.
i will look avidly for the changes madev as a result of these meetings.
keith, Dover wrote:
howard

you to could come along and have your say

its a USE it or LOSE it
I would prefer decisions to be made by local people
not some unknown person from maidstone.

so its realy up to everyone, we can take howards line,or we can get along there and make our voice known

KCC for the first time is giving decision making at a very local level
whilst it might not have the full support of the administration at county hall
we need to use this vehicle as another way of highlighing Dover's issues
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
cliches and sound bites will not solve anything.

the only hope for our town is the DTIZ with asda, nothing else will follow until this comes to fruition
keith, Dover wrote:
howard
for DOVERS sake I hope your right
I dont believe as Asda will do much for Dover
BUT suppose we will have to grin and bear it
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
keith
what would be your alternative to the dtiz development?
keith, Dover wrote:
howard
sadly we were not given a choice to ASDA and DITZ

other options have been put forward but never taken up
cllrs in the past(have left council through frustration) have put up alternatives, such as REAL leisure facilities

I still don't feel that even if ASDA does come to Dover that it will be the
make or break of the town

I'v said before I hope that Dianne smallwood and I are proved wrong
(the only cllrs to vote for leisure facilities at the time)

because it does me no good to say I told you so.

Dover needs a major boost

lets see,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
keith
in other words you do not have an alternative idea.

easy to criticise isn't it?
keith, Dover wrote:
Howard your becoming boring

1; we could have done better than Asda(even in shop terms)
2; why do other towns prosper when Dover Doesnt?
3; missed out on leisure facilities again
4; Asda dictated everything that is (or may)happen
5; this is looking like, well its the best you will get, rather than
looking at Folkestone/Canterbury.margate to name but a few
6; very worrying for dovers future its not a matter of wanting to be
critical more a reason to continue to stand up and be counted
why should Dover be second class citizens
7; Larger shopping outlets if thats the route that had to go should
have been fought for,,, other towns got them
8; But like other TRUE DOVORIANS I will have to except its the best we
are going to get, but I aint going to sit back and just except it
thats wot debates about.

k
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
keith

i asked you to give your alternative, you have just issued a wish list with no
indication of who would fund it.
sorry to see you being negative about the scheduled improvement to that part of town.
Guest 640 wrote:
Keith I dont think we could have done better than ASDA at this point. ASDA is a true superstore and a main player and anyone that saw their presentation in Pencester Gardens in the summer would have been impressed.

My feeling is that we should grab them with both hands. As the DDC chaps have said on a number of occasions right here on Doverforum, they tried allsorts of other avenues but there were no takers...absolutely no takers. At some stage the talking and the searching has to stop ...so at this point in the game we have to press ahead, otherwise it wont be built in our lifetime.
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
paul
our betters would much prefer to score political comments on the future of the town than actually try to change things.

speak to any lifelong dovorian and they say that this talk about the james street area has been going on for half a century.
they would prefer the dereliction to go on so that they would have a political debating point.
in real life we have a choice between what developers offer, only one developer was interested.

i thought it interesting that after the last local elections our council leader the blue mr watkins bemoaned the loss of his rival the red mr wells.

he made a very good point, that they had worked together very well on this project and other things that affected dover's future.

maybe those 2 care more about dover rather than score points?
keith, dover wrote:
howard
i dont know who's rattled your cage, but I care so much about Dover and thats why I feel we could have done better.

paulb
your incorrect i saying there were no takers, whilst Asda MAY come to Dover(Folkestone AsdA OPENED today)givng me doubts onDover
Those speaking on behalf of Asda said leisure facilities and a cinema wouldnt pay, I dispute that
but then only Dianne Smallwood and myself continued to vote/push for
leisure facilities NO other clr from any of the 3 parties supported us.

So I have passion as a Dovorian Its not being negative, its shouting for your town, those of us that have lived here all our life,
it shames me that towns close by
Canterbury, Folkestone, ThaNET are all moving forward

it pains me to watch Dover go the way it is.

I will always be a Dovorian and fight its corner, and if ASDA is the most we will get, well its better than nothing,
but that doesn't mean we should all roll over and except it.
howardmcsweeney, dover wrote:
keith

comments like "howard, who has rattled your cage" does not answer anything.

you say there were other takers, who were they?

no doubt, you will not have an answer.
keith, Dover wrote:
Howard,
Others have attempted to move this council to get better facilities and I have even disagreed with my own party and P Wells on this.
I fought my corner, was outvoted, so time moves on.
doesn't stop me voicing my, and others opinions.

keith
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
keith
i welcome your comments and would like to hear more.

what were the alternatives to the DTIZ, and why did they not pass muster?
keith, Dover wrote:
howard
there was a plea to make sure Dover got a better cinema, the present one needs updating and becoming larger.

Bowling alleys/leisure facilities was another plea, to use the opportunity to gain facilities seriously lacking in the Town.

The present sports centre is old, looking tired, and having heavy subsidies ploughed into it.

Those acting on behalf of Asda rejected the need for either facility.
so we are stuck with sports centre that needs a lot of dosh spent on it
but a council that says it has no money for such projects so the sports centre limps on
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
keith
yet again you are publishing a dreamers wish list.

you have stated that there were other options, what were they, and who offered the leisure facilities?
Guest 660 wrote:
Just to point out Mrs Margaret Sansum is not the District Councillor for Tower Hamlets but I John Goodwin took over after the election in May.
Thanks
Guest 660 wrote:
Sorry your list is really wrong
Buckland is not Allt and Bannister but Cllrs Ann and Mick Smith
St Radigunds is not Ken Tranter but Cllr Gordon Cowan and your Town Councillors are wrong as well,I know you took it from the Agenda so I am not accusing anyone just thought I would clarify.
I will let a Town Councillor tell you the changes there.
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
john
that is my point about these things.

the list of councillors is so redundant, it shows that no effort has been made to make the meeting pertinent.

did you go, incidentally?
keith, Dover wrote:
john#nice to see yer on here

the list provided by the town council is incorrect
but we now have 3 councils working together as well as agencies

Iv said before use it or lose it
Guest 640 wrote:
Yes as I said on the first comment above, the list is out of date but thats the way the Press Release info reaches us. It comes directly from the Neighbourhood Forum as is, and its not up to us to edit their official information.

However apart from the few minor technicalities the N-Forum is doing an excellent job and trying to give people a voice.
keith, Dover wrote:
paulb
there providing everyone with a voice that wants to use it
#but also providing you with biscuits
Guest 640 wrote:
Lol !!!!!!!!!!!
Guest 660 wrote:
no sorry Howard, I was at work,these forums are a good place to listen to what is going on,and you normally get the chance to air your views.I know that not everyone agrees but multi-agency meetings have to be good,to show that we are all going in the same general direction not always at the same pace.

As a for instance I arrange a walk every couple of months around parts of Tower Hamlets and we walk with our Kent County Cllr Town Cllr the Community Warden Alision and she is brilliant(I know she reads this) and P.C.S.O.we let about 500 houses know we will be in your street at a certain time and you can phone for an appointment watch out for us or put the leaflet up in your window,we let the press know but neither paper prints it,D.E. too busy pulling the Town down,and if you a certain political colour,you can forget any press,unless you do something that they can slag you off on.

At the last Council meeting I moved a motion asking my good friend Sue why the Council had not made a bid for any Olympic Funds to build a facility like a running track,what was in the paper ..nothing.. 14 speakers all roughly supporting it.why ? One reporter left about one hour into the meeting the other left with me as I was on nights and had obviously put her pens away long before she left.
keith, Dover wrote:
well now, you are opening a can of worms
think we have had the conversation on one paper you mention
our views differ.

glad you too see how this board can do things for Dover
it is a use it or lose it.

keith
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
you seem to be missing the point keith.
john did not imply "use it or lose it!" he stated that the forums were good for letting off steam, but then went on to say that the press did not report it.

in the end, only people at the meeting new what was going on.
keith, dover wrote:
HOWARD I think you wil find John is talking about the press and his council meetings

I think we should congratulate PAULB even though he ate al the biscuits
he did a superb article on the meeting
Guest 640 wrote:
Keef thanks for that. Just to be clear in general terms though about our remit..Its not really our bag to do nuts and bolt reporting on everything that takes place. We do, if you like, a kind of web soundbite of the headlines for easy absorbtion and hopefully it gives enough easy information.

We leave the nuts and bolts of it to the newspapers...but alas on this occasion there were no newspapers at this event so you are unlikely to get anything at all in said papers, unless they cobble something together from a press release. I missed the last event of NF being away, but prior to that I was at the one on Local Pollution and both Mary Graham of the Dover Mercury, and Laura Smith of the Dover EXpress, were there in situ, scribbling away like blitzo. So will be interesting to see if there is any coverage this time at all.

However just to say again, I did say somewhere earlier, it was a packed house and if the crowd got any larger they would have to look around for another venue. There were though no young people of any kind.
keith, Dover wrote:
paulb
you are of course right, but sadly the local papers miss this opportunity.
it would sell papers had one attended.

I still feel that this board is going places and we need to support it,
the alternative is to sit back, let decisions be probably be made by someone in Maidstone who doesn't even know where Dover is!

local decisions by local people is my motto
GIVE IT YOUR Backing

keith
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
paul
your last line was rather disturbing, (no young people of any sort)!!
these are the people that would benefit from future improvements.

i wonder what effort was made to encourage them to attend.

a plate of biscuits is not always enough.
Keith, Dover wrote:
I Attended local schools weekly when on council , encouraging the young to these and other ways to get there voice heard.
And I know Bill Newman and Gordon Cowan are also visiting schools.

I'm also encouraging the youth at many other events, which is what it is all about

encouragement, thats the key word howard.

of course its everyones views they would like, so you to were(and are) welcome
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
keith
i appreciate that in the past you have clearly tried to raise interest in local affairs for the young.

according to reports of the neighbourhood meeting they have not bitten.

it is a sad state of affairs in such a small town.
someone needs to come in, with a bit of charisma, to ignite the youth.
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
keith
i appreciate that in the past you have clearly tried to raise interest in local affairs for the young.

according to reports of the neighbourhood meeting they have not bitten.

it is a sad state of affairs in such a small town.
someone needs to come in, with a bit of charisma, to ignite the youth.
Keith, Dover wrote:
Together with others a lot more of the young are now much more interested in politics

Howard
your missing the postings completely

as paulb said the room was full up and extra chairs had to be found

roll on the next one
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
keith

i will type this very slowly, paul noted the lack of young people at the meeting.
keith, dover wrote:
hello
HOWARD
Your sarcasm does you no justice
your correct paulb said young were not many present
but in a seperate posting he said room was full and extra chairs required
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
keith
could you not have brought some along from "your" youth club?
just a thought.
keith, dover wrote:
howard
yep thats all it was a thought

man of action me
not just thoughts
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
nice to hear that you are a man of action keith.

does this now mean that you will turn up at your youth club when there is not a photo opportunity?
keith, dover wrote:
i recall you to were in that photo but at least i have attended many times since and will continue to do so
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
you have had to attend since.
i do not remember you attending before the photo call though.
keith, dover wrote:
howard
im unwilling to get into this NEGATIVE stuff you appear to want to get into.

as iv stated earlier i hold out the olive branch

keith
Guest 640 wrote:
As expected, see my post above, there is no coverage of this event in either the Dover Express nor the Dover Mercury. I cant see any anyway. This is a great pity because the Neighbourhood Forum Meetings seem to be gathering momentum. As stated earlier a good and significant crowd of the towns main players turned out to see and hear an excellent panel.

The Dover Express figure we would much prefer to have a double page spread about Ceroc Dancing in Ashford. Ceroc Dancing??...dont ask!!

We seem to have been the only media outlet to cover this event in our own limited way. We were also the only media to give any coverage to Santa at Crabble Corn Mill...so there you are, and all on a budget of chewing gum and string too!
Guest 641 wrote:
Yes Paul, as you said it was packed out and a very good, well presented meeting with a lot of information available to all. Talking of string I've just found a conker in my pocket, it's a 'sixer' so should keep us going for a while longer. Ceroc dancing, take your partners, perlease. lol!
Guest 643 wrote:
Ceroc is derived from many other dances including Salsa, Jive, Swing, Lindy Hop, and Rock and Roll, the main change being simplified footwork which makes it more accessible to beginners. The footwork and hand patterns are similar to Merengue, but with the inclusion of outward turns, multiple turns and dips.

It is danced to music with 4 beats to the bar (4/4 or Common time). It can be danced to most types of popular music from the past several decades, from classic music of the 1940s to the latest chart hits.Music is typically between 108 and 160 bpm. Experienced jivers occasionally dance to music outside those broad constraints.

Ceroc does not require special clothes, although cool clothing is recommended. For both men and women, smooth soled (non-rubberised) shoes that are easy to turn/spin in are also highly recommended. One can buy specialized dance shoes, and long-time dancers often wear professional dance shoes.

Ceroc is, like many partner dances, traditionally a male-led dance, with the male indicating the move to his partner via a range of signals. Ceroc events usually have more women than men participating.Despite the tradition of the male lead, many female dancers today also learn the lead role, even though few male dancers learn the follow role. This is usually because of the sex imbalance, and because many males are less comfortable engaging in a partner dance with a member of the same sex than females are.

Ceroc dancers are typically aged between 25 and 50

Well now ya know - I didn't know til I checked in Wickipedia either! lol
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
interesting to learn about ceroc dancing.

sounds like fun.

we must get back to fact that the "dover" express had a big spread on something that happened in ashford.
Guest 643 wrote:
Yes you're right Howard, sorry I went off subject.
Interesting that the DE reports things that happen in Ashford but not Dover, something wrong there. It's not as if nothing happens here either, there are plenty of stories to report on. Good job we have Paul to keep us up to date lol
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
you were on subject jacqui, it was the dover express that was not.

as you say, why do they need to go far afield when things happen here that could be covered?
Guest 640 wrote:
lol!! Ceroc dancing..well I never!

Following this double page spread, I can now see the citizens of Dover sashaying with their merackers, up and down the shopping boulevards of the town centre, while negotiating the annual hurdle of the Christmas turkey trot or the pudding flambey samba!

That reminds me, Im going to the Mayors Supper Dance next friday !
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:
what does a dover event have to do, to get a double page spread?

there are so many fundays, neighbourhood events, even private funfairs.

maybe we should hold all our events in ashford in future?