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30 September 2012
Sailing in Dover Harbour on a lazy saturday afternoon.
Hard to believe all this sunshine. This is the way summer might have been and wasn't. But Dover made up for it on saturday with a blistering day of late september sunshine. It was so good it brought the Yacht Club guys out in force.
It was a joy to watch those magnificent sails wafting and sauntering around the harbour for hours and hours, they were cutting a dash and no mistake. Pimms anyone?
The terra firma seafront was busy busy too..a bit of glorious sunshine always brings people out for a canter along our delightful seafront. The picture showing is actually a colour picture, but shot directly into the light around midday it has all the appearance of a black and white shot from say.. the Last Picture Show!
See all the hot current topics in our Forum, and see the previous picture features including the one on the Channel Dash Memorial now in our archive All Recent Features see menu left. There is full information on the Channel Dash background and superb coverage by the guys in our FORUM...great pictures and great atmosphere....dont miss it...click here...
http://www.doverforum.com/letters/viewtopic.php?id=11290
Sailing in Dover Harbour on a lazy saturday afternoon. Hard to believe all this sunshine. This is the way summer might have been and wasn't. But Dover made up for it on saturday with a blistering day of late september sunshine. It was so good it brought the Yacht Club guys out in force.
It was a joy to watch those magnificent sails wafting and sauntering around the harbour for hours and hours, they were cutting a dash and no mistake. Pimms anyone?
The terra firma seafront was busy busy too..a bit of glorious sunshine always brings people out for a canter along our delightful seafront. The picture showing is actually a colour picture, but shot directly into the light around midday it has all the appearance of a black and white shot from say.. the Last Picture Show!
See all the hot current topics in our Forum, and see the previous picture features including the one on the Channel Dash Memorial now in our archive All Recent Features see menu left. There is full information on the Channel Dash background and superb coverage by the guys in our FORUM...great pictures and great atmosphere....dont miss it...click here...
http://www.doverforum.com/letters/viewtopic.php?id=11290
- WELCOME
BACK - DEPUTY MAYOR OF LONDON QUITS
Surprized no comment on the above, hes the conservative member under investigation - Keef I just dont know how that guy Ray
Lewis was ever appointed. In the Daily Mail on saturday there is a list of misdemeanours against his name that would surely rule anyone out anywhere. 'Silly Ass' Boris obviously went for the street cred look by appointing a black
deputy but it was a seriously bad move. That right wing organ the Daily Mail, not noted for having a go at Tories, screamed from its frontpage on saturday's big edition
"The wheels are coming off already for Boris!
" - First and foremost Ray Lewis has never been a Conservative member and was brought on board by Boris because of the excellent work he has done in the community. he had would have been
CRB checked because of his work with children, so there would have been no suspicion of any problems.
I note today that the church have back-tracked and admitted that they did not inform Boris of their issues having originally
claimed they did.
As for the issues themselves, I would suggest a word of caution. He was involved in his project for many years and was lauded in the media (including the Guardian as well as right wing media) for what he was
achieving. I am suspicious of various agendas about how these allegations came about at this time.
I note that David Cameron's 'implemention team' is studying what happened with a view to avoiding such problems occuring after
winning the next election. The implemenation team is charged with planning a smoothe transition of power after winning the general election. - nice to be
able to have a chat again,nice picture paul. - Yay and Hurrah!! We are back into open debate. Huzzah and Hooray!!!
- BAZ
Oh come on, the conservatives and BORIS cocked up on this appointment just admit it
- BarryW - why are you suspicious about why the Lewis allegations came about now? Politics is a dirty game run by grubby people with a grimy purpose - on the whole....perhaps not all are
like that but it is as clear as day that most are. Quite obviously information is used, as are stats and other info, to manipulate us. Duh!!! - shades of clinton here with atouch of mafia intreging
- the labour party were rubbing their hands with delight when boris got in.
just a matter of sitting back and watching him make a fool of himself.
not just a case of the miscreant
having a shady past, the chap told boris he was a magistrate.
boris just simply took it at face value. - polictical ping pong.less ping more pong.
- I think this has deeply damaged BORIS it sounds like even BAZ is distancing himself frm the appointment(he wasnt a tory member!!)
Ken must b rubbing his hands with
glee - I merely stated a fact Keith, he has never been a Tory member, indeed he wasnt even a Tory supporter or in any way a politician.
He is just someone who has been running a highly successful community scheme among the
disadvantaged young, in the manner of enforcing tough discipline that we, on the right, wholly approve of. Boris was hugely impressed by what he had seen and wanted it rolled out all over London. Hopefully this incident and Lewis'
departure will not stop that process.
Some basic research on the web will confirm what I have just said as perfectly factual.
I am pleased to see that you are underestimating Boris, Keith. Overall, despite a couple of
hiccups, he has made a good start as mayor and London will benefit.
A small thing, but I love the way he stopped the subscription for 40 copies of Morning Star communist newspaper that Red Ken ordered 'because he liked to support
them'. That alone saved £10,000 of taxpayers money.
His audit commission will no doubt find a lot more waste and ineffficiency. - This will give you a better idea of Ray
Lewis, warts and all....
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/so-is-ray-lewis-a-hero-or-villain-862962.html - BAZ
No Boris a maverick, and won'
t be long before people see through him and out he will go.
Kens rubbing his hands with glee.
damage aleady been done, slowly he crumbles - "That's
Entertainment"..................... - whoooopeeee conflict
- the new cruise ship looks wonderfull,i watched it berth this morning
and was inpressed with the size of it. - Yes its a great one Max. Ive seen it arriving through the mist and its something special..its something like 118,000 tons although Im just
trying to remember the exact figure off the top of my head.
Mylene Klass will be launching her officially later today. Mylene, who captured the nations imagination when she showed off her statuesque figure while showering in the
Celebratory TV jungle, will be very welcome in Dover. Mylene has many talents apart from the obvious and is quite clearly big in music! - paulb i tink you will find its 113000 tons and can
carry around 5000 passengers. - wasnt maverick a western on the telly.dont remember boris johnson in it though.
- you are very nearly right max.
both were/are cowboys. - See Dover AFC lining itself up for another good footy season, looking good, our HESSY sounding very confident but glad to see in his reports hes
not over confident, friendlies get unde way in next week(that was a short break!) these summer breaks get shorter and shorter
then theres the Dover Rugger club, got promotion they are also flying
So theres a lot our sporting
friends are doing in the wider arena to promote Dover
good on them - A splendid photo there PaulB, so majestic and so cool and so good for
Dover. - If you had 1 wish what would it be?
- Apart Keef from the
personally obvious wantings of money, wimmin, drink, food, power, and occasional petrol for the motorised vehicle...for the town a company supplying worthwhile jobs would be the ideal.
The fortunes of this town will only be
changed by a large employer. I was looking yesterday at the empty shops again..some still closed, and closed for a long time, a sure indicator of local poverty despite protestations to the opposite. That huge brown building (formerly MFI
Furnishings I think) at the corner of Castle St and Maison Dieu has lain there dormant like a nasty brown slug for years and years, with not even the slightest whiff of re-opening or redevelopment.
It most towns it would be a nice
slice of urban real estate but not so in Dover unfortunately. Im not sure off the top of my head but maybe this is to be a part of the DTIZ development. Roll on then the DTIZ development..which in itself will bring much needed
jobs.
But ideally yes..a large employer offering both quality and workaday jobs is the first step on the road up the greasy prosperity ladder...and wow do we need it around here? - I would disagree
PaulB about the large employer. What would be better would be a larger number of middle sized companies moving into the area. The local economy would then be far less vulnerable to changing circumstances and the decisions of a single
company board of directors.
We have seen in the past where towns have suffered as a result of the decline of the single employer/industry on which they depend. We have our large employers, plus a lot of small and 'micro'
companies, this area lacks a significant level of medium sized companies. There have been economic surveys that demonstrate this.
Medium sized companies are also more likely to have decision making at a level where the local
small and micro companies can benefit from contracted services, further boosting the area. It can be very difficult for the smaller businesses to penetrate these large organisations. - Dovor Chess
Festival=19th July02008.
Event held at the boys Grammer School from 10am.
One Day Chess Junior Tournament for the under 18,15,13,and under 11years.
Prizes
1st £100,[2] £40 [3] £20.Grading Prize£10.
The prizes apply to each
category.
The U.K. NO1 GM Michael Adams will be there to he will take on Adult players beween 20-30players at a cost of £25each.
This event did take along time to get put on about 2years from the time I went to the Chess Societyof
the U.K.
Even if you do not play chess you will fined it interesting,I would like to think it will come again but we must have the support for this one,so see you on Saturday,I am hopeing to have ago at the U.K. NOI myself.
I
remain yours faithully Vic Matcham - I know the the Doverform will not mine me saying that my life story is back on with the Doverlocals as from tonight.
Vic Matcham - "YAWN"
- BarryW I wouldnt disagree with any of that..sure, 6 or 7 medium sized companies would do very nicely thankyou and would be a
great boost. The problem is its a tall order to hook say 6 or 7 companies and get them interested in Dover. I had lower aspirations and was just hoping for one...but lets make that one a big one if we are having it.
Vic Matcham I
see a letter in this weeks DOVER MERCURY from Derek Leach, Chairman of River Parish Council, acknowledges that the whole Scarecrow idea of last week was yours. Although I didnt get to the event it looks to have been a success story,
therefore a well done to you on that one. - any sort of company would be
wellcome here in dover as long as employs local people. - Paul.
Thank you for that but without all the help by the event committee of the River council over the weeks that event
would not have gone ahead but It was very good and I hope they can hold it again but as I am not a cllr anymore and also not on the event committee we will have to wait and see,I know I will miss it alot but I have alot of work on at
this time and was finding it all to much for me. But I WOULD LIKE TO THANK not only the events committee but the council and the V/Hall committee for what they all do for River.
Vic Matcham - Just to say Well Done Vic.
- I have been reading all your posts about geting more companys to come to Dover, we do have them here and some of them have a very full order book, I work for one of them, Mr walkins
of the D.D.C. came round last week to see the workshop it is very big and some of the best tools you can have for the jobs we do, but you also need the skills to do the work and this is hard at times in our district more must be doine at
the schools to get the skills, like welding, plumbing,and GEN/Building,I am hopeing when I have more time to aske the schools to let me come around to them and their students and tell them about the skills that are still needed. And you
can get well paid for welding and the other skills as well, and once you have them and you wish to move on they go with you they are needed all around the world it is a good living, I am far from the best and I have been doing it for
over 45yrs now and have never been out of work even for a day and have done work all over the place here in the U.K. and overseas and still doing it now and I must say to it has been agood living with lots of experiences.
Vic
Matcham - Glad to see Vic has reverted to the proper spelling of Dover. However, sorry to see his spelling of "grammer".
- well spotted mike i never noticed.looking at the pictures above its nice to see some forummates there,its nice to put a face to a name.
- i must admit that i find the pics of the
admiral a trifle disturbing.
in the first, with a hand behind him, it looks like he is trying to get a fly out of his eye.
the following pic suggests that pocket billiards has come back into fashion. - Aaarrrgh Howard !..well its probably the fault of my pictures if you see it that way but no seriously the Admiral did a nice job in the park and it was a great coup for Sheila to get
him onboard. - Ah Marek, and there's you thinking that you
had managed to escape being relieved of your hard earned cash by moving to Dover, then your intrepid sons tracked you down lol! A fine pair of strapping lads you have there.
It looks as thogh a great day was had by all, a big
Well Done to Sheila and all involved. - What a fine man the Admiral Boyce is, with a very pleasant and friendly nature, it was great to see him being involved in the Funday. He spent
quite a long time chatting to the wonderful Sea Cadets obviously regaling them with stories of a naval nature which left them spellbound and in awe of someone of such a senior rank.
A big to Sheila and all involved and Marek, it
was nice to meet your lovely sons, you must be proud of them.
- Oh Dear! Im not entirely sure this new idea
is working out..as contributors are referring to pictures no longer there. The idea was to do it like the Political thread with a periodically changeing picture or two above..with the editorial piece at the top being forever transient
..ever changing. But it doesnt seem to be working out right here.
Might have to go back to the drawing board for a rethink. - I hope to wear a victorian costume.I wonder if Nigel
will/ - I love Connaught park, I go there almost every day, those pictures are amazing! especially the view of the pond.
I'm looking forward to Sunday in the Park.
Yes Paul agree, a pity those pictures are transient, surely they could be archived in the magazine. - wonderful pics
there, evokes the era so well.
sue
if we can get nigel to go as a cockney chimney sweep, what would you dress up as? - What wonderful photos, thank you.
- looking again at the wonderful pics of people in their finery in connaught park, it reminded me of the
history of the steps up to the western heights close to cowgate cemetary.
apparently it was the in place on a sunday when people strolled up the steps to the hills parading along the paths at the top, the ladies with their long
dresses and parasols, some of the men too!!
even dickens referred to it as a place for romance.
imagine the scene nowadays, our populace promenading in elegant style with tattoos showing over the string vest, the men much
the same.
the stylish staffs with their studded collars, slaughtering any remaining wildlife.
the waiter then lays the table for the picnic, out comes the "tennants" from the cool box, the constabulary then requests that
drinking be desisted.
the poetic response comes back "up yours copper".
i must apologise for the rose coloured view that i have. - Great Pictures PaulB and you were there in person! lol! You can just imagine whats going through the
minds of the victorian youngsters dressed in all their finery, as in 'Jeez I'd love to jump in there in me sunday best' lol! - Not a hoodie or skateboard in
sight....those were the days - that pond looks bigger than i rember.
- Ive changed tack now on this section, and changed the name..I had the idea to add pictures/editorial at top of the page but I got it wrong as it just resulted in everyone commenting on
the pictures. This is of course is absolutely fine in normal circumstances as comments are great..but my input at the top has stifled original letters. We are trying to get back to the Letters Page system we had before that was ruined by
spam. So please feel free to add your letters on any topic. I will leave the top of this page alone henceforth so that it can flow in whatever direction it takes itself.
The editorial/pictures at the top were intended to be
transient and ever changing but I dont think it was a happy scenario all round. - Connaught park. I have fond memories of childhood when we were taken to the park regularly. I remember The Teddy Bears Picnic flower bed near the main entrance.This would have been the
late 50's.Perhaps there could be a battle of the flower bed competion with competitors from various Gardening clubs competing for a Challenge cup.
There is a great display of old photographs in the museum . The market square, The
Market Hall etc. They say looking back things always seem better. These photographs prove it.
Whilst in nostalgic mode, was anyone a Mod in the 60's. Elizabeths in The Market square and The Top Hat for the Rockers.Motorbikes and
scooters were lined up from Castle Street to the Top Hat (is it now 888?).
All high on life ,coffee and happy sounding music.and not a lager lout in sight. Dover Market Square was our Shangri La. - I also have a memory of Connaught. I gained it at the of about 10. Sliding down a bank, my right leg got a nasty gash from a sharp piece of flint. I stiil have a 3" scar!
Ah, halcyon
days!
Terry - Nice to hear these stories about old Dover although in your case Terry Im sure its not too fond a memory.
Janet yes I would love to see a
few pictures of the old Market Square. Have seen some in the past looking up Castle St but you rarely see it looking the other way. Never knew The Chapter 8 was the Top Hat dancehall..but thinking about its layout, yes can see how it
would have been, with people looking over the balcony to the dancers below. Just thinking about all the motorbikes lined up..I expect they were all Triumphs and BSA's, great oily bikes of the great British past. I had one of each at one
time. Didnt wear helmets in those days either but always had the traditonal white silk scarf blowing in the wind, as did many of the guys. The term 'doing the ton' was all the range..it was quite an achievement if your machine could
manage it. - yeah i remember the top hat to with moterbikes outside to,the restrant across the road had scooters
of the mods parked outside to but cant the name of it as it was then. - Got back from Connaught, (very good day!) switched on the box and found "The Great Escape".
Merry Christmas everyone!
Terry - I only recall the TOP HAT as being
a coffee bar (with the upstairs balcony)
There was a water fountain feature near the bottom of the stairs and I am told that one Georgie Carter (though I never witnessed it myself)took his motorbike in and leaned it against the
fountain.We also went to the cinema 3 times a week.(The ABC,Essoldo (nicknamed the flea pit)and the Odeon)
The ABC even had live groups in the early sixties. I remember seeing Billy Fury,Hermans Hermits,The Mindbenders and my
particular favourite The Walker Brothers.
Perhaps its time Coffee Bars were reinvented. Simply Coffee(black,white and none of this fancy stuff that you need a mortgage for these days)
Proper Juke Boxes. The first record I ever
played for sixpence was Mr Tamborine Man by The Birds. - jan now you made me feel old.soon be getting my bus pass oh dear and pension to.
- Not wanting to get into the Christmas festivities
I turned my attention last night to the Proms. The first two acts were boring to the point of being dire. I'm sure that more time was spent tuning up than actually playing!
However, "Bellowheads" that followed were
brilliant, this was folk music with attitude. If you ever get a chance to see them then please do. It is a revelation.
Terry - I agree, Bellowhead were absolutely
amazing. However, for very different reasons, Martin Simpson was amazing too, great guitar and beautiful song writing!
"FAME"
Last night tonight...
Thanks to everyone who came
along to The Roundhouse Theatre in the Discovery Centre this week to support our latest production; "FAME". We've had great audiences again and most performances ended with a standing ovation and i'm very proud of our
cast.
It's the last one tonight (Monday) and there are a couple of tickets left - please visit www.blackfishacademy.com for details...
Following last year's "We Will Rock You" where we had people requesting we extended
the run because they missed out... I'd hate you to miss out on this vibrant, colourful & energetic production.
Cheers again..
All the best
Richard...
- Well done richard
and the kids another great production from blackfish, its good to see how successfully it seems to be going carry on with the good work richard and all the rest of you guys. - Ah yes Jan P, as opposed to Jan T, I caught
the tail end of coffeee bars. I remember and I think Cliff Richard's first movie was called Espresso Bongo and all based on the coffee bar culture. It sure didnt do him any harm as he is still with us and popular today. Although its so
long since Ive seen that movie that I hope Im remembering it right, but of course Espresso would refer to the coffee..ermm I guess.
I agree about these new coffee places. Ive tried them a few times and I never seem to get my order
right as there is such an odd choice...that latte stuff doesnt cut it. Your right, its not cheap neither.
The best coffee in these parts used to be down at the Hoverspeed/Hovercraft terminal. They had this very huge and fierce
looking whizzzbanging whistleblowing coffee machine that looked positively frightening to operate..but two endearing dears managed it very welll and produced the best coffee I ever had. It was just to the left when you went in the doors
as there was a small cafe open to all, you didnt have to be a traveller. Sadly I went up one time, only in the past couple of years, and it was all gone. The legendary fierce machine assigned to a scrapheap
somewhere...sigh! - Although more expensive COSTA is a good coffee
for a cheaper version you can pop next door
to amnias
anyway mustn't advertise.
most of these coffee places are well used.
- We would prefer to support the local businesses, like La Salle Verte, for a coffee rather
than a national chain like Costa. Costa is OK, fine and we would have it at an airport or whatever, but not in Dover. - coffee is coffee where you get it from.
- We are now working on that hole along the sea front we have been there the
last two days I think it will take longer to weld up the piles than the last time we done it about two years ago,but with the good weather and daytime tides lets hope it will not be to long before they can back fill it.
Vic
Matcham - try quick drying concreate vic,a word of warning dont stand in it unless you want to.lol.
- lol!! Max
yes dont stand in the quick drying cement Vic! If you go missing we will know what's become of you. I see they have a huge crane down there and have had now for three days or so. Seems way too big for the job
in hand but what would I know! There must be some considerable lifting required but what of..I dont know. I havent seen it lifting anything as yet. - The crane is working look out there at 0630hrs
in the morning it put the digger down to help dig out the piles for us to repair and weld up and when the tide comes back in it takes the digger back up again +get steel to us at times, it will be a few more days yet before we have done
our part.
Vic Matcham - ear vic you can get cream for them piles lol.
- With an upcoming family wedding I have been accompanying my wife on various shopping trips. Yesterday saw us in Ashford. Having escaped from that McArthur Park place with the wallet unscathed we ventured into the town. It
was bedlam. The precinct was awash with cyclists and skateboarders. Observing this but doing nothing were two PCSO's sitting at Starbucks. But then I suppose it was their coffee break! - morning
Hi Terry
this
frustrating and I can't comment on the actions of others.
The cycling on pavements is a big issue, but when In Dover one of the leading conservatives rides a bike through the town on the pavement how can you attempt to correct
others? I have even spoken to this man and he wasn't bothered.
I feel adults have less right to be on the pavement but even then car drivers need to be more tolerant of cyclists.
I wouldn't want to send kids into a road
and put the in danger.
Its going to take a lot of educaton to get those cyclists who ride on pavements to do so safely, and also car owners to take more care when cyclists attempt to use the road.
Its a long way off to
achieve this, and frustrating,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, - I won't stand up for the leading conservative Keith, I know who you mean. However, I do think that the PCSO's in question might have
done something. Yobs on bikes and skateboards were zigzagging in and out of pedestrians and these two were sitting there and doing nothing.
You may ask why I did nothing. The reason is that I am keeping my head down at the
moment as I have an issue with the police and don't wish to be branded as a troublemaker.
Terry - Tez
Your right about our leading figure, but if he doesnt lead by
example how do you expect others to follow?
I won't comment on the others you mention as that would be unfair wihout having all the details.
k - I sometimes answer to Tel
Keith, but never Tez, that's someone else entirely.
Just got the Extra. On page two it says "Police want to hear of your concerns". They might get them if they bother to return my calls!
Disgruntled of Dover. - Got cross and should have said page three!
- SORRY MR NUNN
- No wonder the police dont talk to no one..did you see the report on the national TV news last night about people ringing up 999 to say their oven isnt working..or to
complain about late buses and so on. Its unbelievable. One man rang from his mobile and said
" my bus is running late, its always late and what the **** are the police doing about it...nothing.."
honest to gawd you
wouldnt belive it but they played the tape out in this case and in others. - THE TIME IS RIGHT
The time is right to open up the Collerys again not only in Kent but the whole of England.
With fuel cost going up
so quick we can not keep up with it.
And we have some of the best quality of coal in the world and most of it.
Unemployment is geting higher each day.
Bt opening the mines up again it will gave us fuel,empoyment,and Apprentices
again and we do need more good 5years apprenticeships again, we did have the best apprenticeships in the world at one time with the mines, and the Railways.
It would also help places like Aylesham,Snowdown.
It would again buildup
our rual way of life,and so much more.
So lets get England going again and the way to do it is with COAL AND MORE COAL AND THERE IS SO MUCH OF IT.
vIC mATCHAM - Sadly, Paul, there will always be time wasters and crank callers but, just as shop assistants have to put up with time wasters so to do the police and other emergancy services. Nobody expects them to respond to calls about
late buses or broken appliances but they should have the proffessionalism to look past them and respond to genuine callers. The only excuse I can think of, and it is not much of one, for the two PCSO's would be that as there is only
one covering that area, the two seen drinking coffee were off duty and off their patches. I did say that it was not much of an excuse. - vic if you are talking kent coal its
not really that good,its only fit for coking,what you used to in your pot belly stoves and such like but on the other hand it did burn slow and virtuly smokeless.and it was a curse to the chimmany sweeps. - I do know that but I mean coal from all over not just Kent we could use it all anyway, thanks for your postig Max.
Vic Matcham - keith
this leading blue chap that rides a bike on the pavement is breaking the law.
how is he allowed to get away with it? - because hes a toff eton boy
thats why. - max
keith is referring to a local bluie.
the only i can think that might have been up at eton is our victor.
he normally drives a car though. - ahhh little blue i thought you were talking about big blue who had his bike nicked.lol.
- ...............but he does have
a stately progess and wears a hi-vis jacket!
Today I was dinged out of the way by youths in that notorious stretch between Ladywell and the RVH.
Terry - Terry
I do fully takeyour point, but i'm afraid he should lead by example, and he doesn't care, cos iv asked
him to do so. - Part of my point Chris was that the two PCSO's just sat there and did nothing. It doesn't matter that it might have been their coffee break. They were in
uniform, they could have shouted without getting off their backsides. As it is, the public conception must have been that they were condoning it. To my mind they brought PCSO's into disrepute.
Terry - We've had an interesting letter in from Mr Fred Mitchell, its on the Jokes Page, and is
saying that some of the jokes are too much for a public forum and should be removed.
I have answered Mr Mitchell on the Jokes Page, so if anyone wants to take a look at Mr Mitchell's comment and my reply pop over to the Jokes
Page.
I would be interested to hear comments here on this Open Letters Page from anyone at all on this. Are the jokes too much or are they okay!? - Terry
As I'v said without the full details of why these 2 pcso's were there it doesn't get away from the fact that a LEADING CONSERVATIVE also does it every day, and if
he's not willing to lead by example wot chance we got? - Keith
Name and shame him/her....maybe then he/she will cease using the pavements as cycle paths. - just heard the news on the radio dave cameron tory leader is calling for a general election after
labour lose glasgow east,i wonder if gorden brown will respond and call one. - I have never seen said person riding on the pavement. He does
however ride through the precinct.
Thought I'd clarify that.
Terry - Max - Following up on your comments see the exchange between PaulB and I in the politics section.
Interesting piece on
politicshome.com
"""""""""""""""""""Andrew Rawnsley, PoliticsHome
Following the sensational defeat of Labour in the Glasgow East by-election after a stunning anti-Government swing to the SNP, there is now
a serious possibility that Labour is facing meltdown at the next general election. That's now the view of nearly half of the PHI100.
And among the left-leaning panellists, who are now the most pessimistic about Labour's
prospects, a majority regard the wipe-out scenario as a serious possibility.
Forty eight per cent of the panel overall think that is either a serious possibility or certain that the next election could leave Labour with fewer than
100 MPs - a result which would be even worse than their performance in the 'suicide note election' of 1983 when the party was led by Michael Foot. """"""""""""""
There is more if you go to the politicshome.com
website. - barry it looks like things are going down the pan all round g brown losing his grip on realalty d camaron going the same way.with energy bills
etc riseing daily its not looking good for anybody not evan the majour parties. - max
whoever is in power, things look grim for the next 2 years or so.
the energy bills are
getting beyond a joke.
when edf announced the percentage rise today, i thought that with compound pecentages it must be something like 100% in a short period of time.
fuel prices are hitting everybody.
the problem is the same
all over the industrialised world. - howard gas and electric are linked to the price of oill when one gos up they all go up,but on the other hand if they wernt would they be in
the same situation as we are now or somewhere differant.its a catch 22 situation,when prices fall for raw materills the manufacters are slow to bring there prices down,the ultimate is greed by the companys who only see profit.
- You are correct howard, things are looking grim and will remain so for quite a while.
In the UK we are badly prepared for it and we will all be hit a lot worse than other
countries.
The basic reasons for this are:
1/ Brown's fiscal policies where he has borrowed and spent so much that he has no room to stimulate the economy when it is needed. He should have been repaying debt when we had
economic growth, he failed to do so and just borrowed more and more, a bit like some bing drinking fool.
2/ The way he disincentivised saving. In doing so the 'savings ratio' has dropped by over two thirds. That is a very
important element because people do not have the reserves of savings to see them through. Indeed the high level of personal debt is going to deepen the problems.
To summarise, yes the economic slowdown is world wide and all
countries are affected by the rise in commodity prices. BUT, we will be suffering far worse than we should as a direct result of the actions of Brown.
You will remember that I am not just speaking in restrospect. I warned that
we were heading this way, pointing out the problems on the Forum, while Labour's spin was deluding people into thinking Brown was competent as a Chancellor. - yes barry i agree with that post of yours,it seems he wasnt so prudent after all lessons have been lernt and will be a hard up hill struggle to get out of it,a deep hole no ladder situation im afrayed.
- I've missed a few postings....do you mean Vic? Where's his ladder then and how are the
piles?! - the ladder is for gorden brown and the cream for vics piles.
- The picture on the letters club just goes to show how close to the countryside we are and on a clear day with blue sky and sunshine and avery
clear view of the cliffs of France what more could anyone ask for. - Prom in the park! The Becker orchestra is playing at Ripplevale
school on friday - super function with bring your own picnic and watch an excellent outdoor show - I have some tickets if anyone wants to join us - Croc?
D - Jan, we live
in a fabulous place! I love the drive home from work, breasting the hill towards the sea and seeing the ships and ferries, the sea and sometimes France - I never get tired of it. The Castle is a picture, and we have fantastic
countryside. Dover is a great place with plenty more potential!! - The sun is out so would like to see lots of you up and the Kite Festival try like me get a kite you
can buy or make your own up there it is great fun, so let your hair down and have a great day out bring your own food or e,tc. or buy it up there the allthe kids to thereis a workshop they will help you make your own kite.If we get a
good turn out today I will try and get it back next year.And thanks to the Town Council there is no cost to get in it is Free.
vic Matcham - Sorry about the last post it should
read,Bring all the kids there is workshop up there to help you to make your own KITES. - I absolutely love that view too Bern, my heart never fails to miss a beat when i approach that last
bend and there it is.... ah! wonderful. - Bern you are so right we have some fantastic scenery history and
surrounding countryside,I gess it boils down to what people appreciate whats on their own doorstep. - All the welding now done to the piles on the sea front and at this very time they are back filling the big hole by the morning there will be no hole by Thursday it
will all be tarmac over , and will be open for the Regatta on Saturday, as for myself time off work at last, with this time off and my wife away I am going to work on my plans to get back on the town council, +work on events I hope to
bring to the town next year, ready next year junior Chess Tournament and kite festival,talks are coming along still along way to go yet but looking good I must say at this time funding is not in place but they look better at this time
than the same time last year. The big concert I was hoping for this did not work out the we had hoped, but again I have made alot of mastakes and been let down and the marking of events must be better.
But the pride and passion is
still there so on we go.
Vic matcham - DOVER 1 gilliam 0,ha ha kieth
beat ya. - Excellent result for Dover against the Gills.A header late in the second half secured a win for the Whites.They showed the goal on local BBC news this
morning. - marek
good result, but the header??
did it not come off a gillingham head? - A wonderful idea Vic, opening up the pits again, but too late for that I am afraid. If they had been kept open in the first place the country would be in a much more stable state than it
is now, in my opinion. Not sure about global warming though. There is around 200yrs of coal supplies left underground in Kent and yes, it is coking coal, but it is the best coking coal in the country, 14 times better than Nottingham’s
coal, for instance - as a ex kent miner i agree with that comment gary.
- Thank you for that, it is not to late to open the pits in the U.K. and it will be done with fuel cost going up the way it is opening the mines and new ones is the only way to get thge
cost of fuel down again, I have said this before over the next two years or so you see mines open again and coal again will be a major fuel again geting the coal out from the pits will be alot better than before we have movedon from the
days when alot of men got it out by hand.
Vic Matcham - It's not on Vic. The infrastructure isn't there anymore. Land has been used for other things. Unless you want hundreds of lorry movements a day down leafy lanes you would have
to build a new railway.
No mate, it's sounds a good idea but it isn't practical.
Terry
- Terry,It is not a if anymore but a when it has all been done before I
have been working up on the Island of Grain and they are geting ready now for the Coal for the new power station I know we have them camp out up there to try and stop it but it will com soon+there is nothing more power then steam we
could even see steam-engines back coal used in heating water, and steamboats, it all can be done and some of it will and new jobs if it Coal can work and it will, because it is a must if the way fuel cost are going and just today Gas
going up by 35/percent. We are seating on a island of coal and must use it, And then and only then will we see fuel cost come down.I would also like to thank the Dover Mercury this week for the write up they put in about Coal I did not
know they were going to do it,but that does mean more of the public will read it and that is good, The Dover Express did also put it in Dubris this week and I was surprise they done that because sometimes my suggestion are taken up
on.
Vic Matcham - COAL MINING;
Well is there some one out there with expertise on coal mining and any future?
- yes and
it has no futre - I asked for an expert!
- i'm no expert, but the fact that this goventment is ploughing millions into nuclear power
and buying cheap coal from poland, why would they spend millons more opening new pits? - Hi, this is an update of where we are up to, with the moving of the Kent Miners Statue.
We held a meeting on Tuesday where we, the Committee, met with John Iverson (Dover Museum) and Richard Pollard (DDC) and three members of Aylesham Parish Council; they were very helpful in offering advice and suggestions about the move.
The committee are well aware that the new site should be safe and secure in every possible way and to achieve this we are meeting with the police, Kent highways, planning officers and the building contractors. We are very positive that
we can, through consultation, achieve our aim to put the Statue on the Miner’s Way Trail, in a prominent position where it will have an impact on the Mining Communities of Kent.
The committee decided that a Kent Area Gala will be held
to unveil the Statue and to present plaques to all Mining Communities to commemorate the moving of the Statue. It is hoped that the Gala Day will be held in the ethos of the old Mining Gala days, although I think the boxing tents might
not be appropriate these days. Brass bands and choirs will be asked to play and lots of other entertainment will be forthcoming.
The Miners and their Communities helped shape the surrounding towns and villages and we believe that is
important to keep our heritage alive. We hope we can bring together all the Communities for this Historic Event and have a day to remember, maybe annually.
To achieve this we need more funding, any person or organisation who would
like to help with fundraising or with donations, please contact me, Gary at ducks12@sky.com. Thanks.
- Max.
It is not in the future it is happing today the use of
coal today is at a all time high than over the past 25years and this will go on and still we are geting most from overseas and it is not so good as our own they have more waste with it and it is not that clean. So the day will come and
soon when we will go back to our own coal.
Vic Matcham - kieth i worked down the pits wot more do you want.vic the british coal industry died during maggies reign witch made
made it unviable to reopen them again.the truth be told it was costing more to bring out than they were selling it for. - Max
I worked down tilmanstone but it doesn't make me an
expert - GARY C
I'm still a little bemused over the moving of the statue
Iv heard all you have had to say but still feel it will hard to come to terms with miners that lived in Dover
and the area around and i presume now the statue is going to one pit area(what about the ex pit sites?)
I don't want to open old arguments, but if i were a miner in Bettshanger/chislet/timanstone etc i wouldnt be happy
but
hey im just a pleb in these things - keith ditto i worked at tilmanstone to,you missed snowdown in your last post.
- its not going to a
pit site, its going on the Miners Way Trail where it will be seen by many potential visitors, to encourage them to visit places like Snowdon, tilmanston, chislet dover etc. - i
thought that gary had made that clear some time ago.
we will lose it, at least it will go to a central point so that a large amount of people will see it, and ask questions about it. - Well done Gary, excellent work. I'm pleased to see the miners statue assume a more fitting place than our seafront, and consequently interest a wider community of people than just us
Dover locals. Thanks for the update - you chaps are doing a great job. - max;
Deliberatly missed some pits off to see if anyone reads the posts - ok houdini try shakesphere collery
- dover given 3.8 million for a cable car wot a waste of money.would be
better spent doing the town center up to get more people spending money in the shops witch makes more sence than giving it to english heritage. - if the councill wants iconic how
about having some statues put up in the market square.ie winstone churchill,admirals keyes,ramsay along with the coffin of the unkwown warrior and the angel of mons slaped bang in the middle of the market square. - and not forgetting field marshell montgomery.
- With my name on a street in the town and a Iconic OF ME about 40ft high above the
town and port, they will come from all around the world to see it ad the birds can **** on me aswell.
Vic Matcham - excuse my ignorance max, what connection did
montgomery have with dover? - I think Monty's staff car was shipped over from here Howard.
- no vic thats ironic,howard i believe he was once or twice up the castle with churchill be fore d-day.
- O.k. one of them as well but it must be very big and seen from all over the town
with name as well. "Here is the one and only Vic Matcham 1942----do not know this yet as I am still going on.
Vic Matcham - yeah vic matcham coal barron of kent might get a medal somtime next centry
- Wasn't Monty made a Freeman of Dover in the grounds of Dover College?
Terry - Some were I have a picture of
Monty standing on the back of a Land Rover speaking to troops at Crabble Athletic Ground prior to to D Day. - VIC
It aint just the birds that s**** on you
the electorate have many times(or are they trying to give you a
message? - they are called sh*tehawks kieth.they come in various shapes and sizes.
- i can picture the scene with the field marshall,
rallying his troops, "i will be right behind you men".
a voice comes from the back, "yes, about 20 miles behind us". - This doesn't seem to move much, thought I'd nudge it along.
The Dover Express are holding a small exhibition in Maison Dieu House at the
moment (last couple of days). Strange that I didn't see it mentioned in the aforementioned publication.
Terry - What do you think?
In
the Dovor Express today under planning.
Change of use for the stationing of caravans for 2no gypsy pitches with hard-standing and utility/day-room buildings ancillary to that use.
Caravan Site, Alkham Valley road,
Alkham.
What do you think about that one.?
Vic Matcham - Vic
I think it only fair that you should state how you stand and on which side of the
fence you are with regards to this debate on a permanent gypsy camp before it ''kicks off''.
Then others can either agree or disagree with your view point.
Over to thee lad as we
p'tnorth.
Marek - I have no problem with that......
.....as long as they pay rates.
But then I don't live in Alkham.
Terry - Well you hear such horrendous things about Gypsy or Travellers camp sites,
official or otherwise. In theory they seem like a good idea, at least to officialdom, and lets face it something has to be done with the problem, but sadly I feel like so many people, as long as they dont park them next to anywhere Im
living. Im one of the worlds great NIMBYs. - Wil get back to you on this .There is a planning policy re gypsy sites.I have been to conferences about them .This application falls within my
ward so will look into it - Just a note of warning this is a live application and as we all know this forum is read by many people who donot make comments...The correct procedure
is to write in to the planning authority state whether you are for or against and it has to be on planning grounds.The personal sides do not have to be discussed....I think we have to be very
careful - I think I will continue to discuss issues, whatever they are, as long as they don't cause offence..........
- Bern there is
such a thiing as free speech,however we donot want to create a situation which isnt there.No more walking backwards along a busy road or jumping out in front of traffic on a busy trunk road .Just accepr an application is in and for and
against play by the rules. - I wasn't really going to get involved in this debate but having just read Sue's post I thought what the hell...I don't give a toss about so called
unseen and unpublished 'rules'.They stand in the way of progress and open debate.Sorry Sue.This is a free country.
I think the people with most to say on this issue should be invited to a joint meeting with the council.The
residents of Alkham,the Tinkers and the Deadwood sorry the Dover District Councillors oh you could invite the local law who may have a vested interest but it's doubtful they will bother to turn up!!!.Thats once you've got through to
them on the blower via the call centre in Mumbai sorry Maidstone who aren't that sure where Dover is??
Anyone should be able to put their tuppence worth in so long as its reasoned not libelious or inflammatory.
I only hope
this is something that can be resolved satisfactorily and in everyones best interest. - Food for Thought..Press release...Hope this meets with Sue's 'Rules'?
After a crime
spree that spanned 20 years and targeted the homes of the rich and famous, five members of a notorious Irish gypsy gang were finally locked away.
The Johnsons, famed for stealing antiques worth tens of millions of pounds from
stately homes, were known to reside on caravan sites across the south-west of England. It was from these poor man's homes that they meticulously researched and planned their misadventures.
While all the men held previous
criminal records for various misdemeanors, the jewel in their thieving crown and most high-profile heist was the burglary of the home of famed property magnate Harry Hyams. During this raid alone they netted goods worth a collective £80
million.
Mr Hyams is known to have lost the most expensive item stolen by the family, a 17th century clock worth around £1 million, as a result.
Only £12 million worth of the stolen goods have so far been recovered by
police since their arrest in 2006 - marek has raised an issue that most people have the same view on, but are afraid of expounding it.
i go by my lifes experience, and the travelling
community have caused nothing but problems wherever i have lived.
i hope that they will be made to feel welcome in alkham. - Thank you for your comments on this one Mark I will
had my own comments at some point but at this time I am just reading how you and the others feel about it, sorry about that it shoud read add not had.
The debate will go on for some time yet I feel most of the time I will jump in with
both feet but not on this one.
I remain yours faithfully vic m - Marek - your penultimate posting said it all, really.....thank you.
- Vik
You are ducking the issue.Tell the forum what you think.Stop sitting on the fence.If you ever want to be elected to public office you must have firm views and be able to put forward a reasoned argument in your
favour.Your constant prevaricating does nothing to endear you to the electorate.Stop dithering and put your point of view forward.....now.
Bern
Thanks for your comments.
Howard
We cannot continue to pussy foot around
inportant social issues ..confront them and impliment the changes necessary.Our society is on the Cresta run of decline because too many people are scared of saying what they believe is right for this country.Listen to other view
points,learn then adapt ..it really is the only way forward. - I never duck any issue and have very firm views. I will be asking for my 3mins at the D.D.C. planning meeting if it is not to
late, I have done this alot over the years,have you ever done it Mark?I PUT MY VIEWS over at meetings.
And will be doing the same with this one when I am ready.
Vic M - Im
afraid I should really delete that posting from Dover Resident as its a bit of a nasty swipe at a public figure while hiding behind anonimity. The posting has some merit of course in the first paragraph but please Im asking for fairness.
Fair criticism is one thing but it must have a point and be openly named. So play the game...this is particularly important in a totally open section. - Delete, PaulB, please.....personal
abuse has no place here. And Vics postings are always interesting and underscore the very valuable principle of free speech - he is never abusive, always interesting, and always courteous. - Yes Bern youre right I should have deleted it, and have done so now. Its not what we're after on here.
Im always reluctant to delete stuff as its good if everyone can have a fair hearing but Im afraid its inevitable at
times. Pity. Postings should be fair minded. - I have been out all day so I did not see that posting, but you could have left it on, I put my self in the fireing range so I know I am going
to be shot at, I have been around now for a very long time so I can take it.
But thank you all for your comments.
Now what have I done for the very first time in my life,well at the age of 66years I went paint ball fighting I went
at0800hrs this morning down to Hamsreet nr Ashford AND got back about 1800hrs and what a great day out and I won the last game which was the last man standing there was about 40 of us in in the last game you are on your own,you can be
hit as much as you can take and when you are in so much pain you can take it no longer you put your hand up and you come out of the fight I was last to come out but let me tell you now I am in pain.
My wife thinks I am mad doing it at
my age, but we all had a great day out. And if have never had ago try it.
I remain yours faithfully Vic Matcham - Being shot at (and I notice that is a recent experience of
yours Vic!!) is one thing, personal abuse is another. We are all open to critisism and debate on here, but shouldn't have to ensure personal hostility, especially when it is clearly undeserved. P.S. - you are The Man!! We are Never Too
Old and it is Never Too Late!!! - Bern.
Thank you for that as I said before I did not see the posting about me.
Anyway I am still feeling very sore, but went up to Langton cliffs this
afternoon.I had put ex cored on my kite to get more high, but with the kite geting higher and higher in the very good wind the string broke andoff went my new kite I did go after it but my poor old legs gave up on me, so if any of you
are up on the cliffs beween langton and the bay and come across a kite please let me know.
I remain yours faithfully VIC M. - Sorry Paul, but in the thread in LETTERS CLUB under the
heading
"Multi-Million pound boost for Dover" your post of 9th.August, 2nd. paragraph, says that "all members of this Forum club are fully named, open and are not anonymous". That only applies to Forum members apparently as I have
tried to see profiles but cannot as I am not a Forum member.
The only one that came up was Chris Precious but I have not tried all of them as yet.
Ex. Old Forum member.......Trader. - I am one of the forum members, and my details are held by the forum management, I guess that, if my postings became inflammatory or abusive, PaulB would have access to
my details if necessary. I would not be happy to have all my details such as email address etc freely available, but am happy that they are available if needed. - Hi Alec, nice to hear from
you...
Yes to follow on from Bern there, anyone continually reading can quite clearly see who everyone is, its a small but effective membership and many use their full name and even when members dont use their full names its still
easy to see who they are...
for example Ian is Ian Lillford
JHG is John Goodwin
Roger is Roger Walkden and so on
its easy and open, its no secret. So the points are well made.
there is no one for example called say
Cabbagehead or similar having an anonymous go at the efforts of our public figures. Its open therefore, and all are responsible members of the community...thats my point. We used to get problems when you had councillors trying to have a
responsible conversation with someone called say Cabbagehead in the past.We had these difficulties pointed out and when in a position to change it all, went for this new approach. - Hullo
Alex,
How are you have not seen you on the bus lately.I recently celebrated my big 70.some of your old friends were there. - Just reread the thread ALEC I hope you are the chap who
worked with my husband??If not apologies alround. - Yes Sue, it is the same Alec. Congrats on joining the 70's Club,
you have a few years to go to catch me though.LOL.
I have not been on the bus as much as I used to as I had a new knee which went wrong and kept me indoors. It is OK now, touch wood, and I am getting about much more.
Paul
and Bern, I understand what you are saying, there were quite a few nutters on the old Forum My point was that there a lot of new names that I can't put a face to.
I know quite a few faces from the old Forum through seeing their
photos on here but not to speak to. I sat behind Howard on the Folkestone bus a few weeks ago but didn't have the courage to speak to him as I thought that he might think that I was chatting him up.LOL. - You should have Alec, I think I'm the only one that talks to the poor old soul!
Terry - this is a new experience,
never been stalked before.
trader
not seen you on here for years, you have the advantage on me as i do not know what you look like.
terry
there was no need to give me that flask and sandwich the other day.
money
for extra strength lager would have been more appreciated. - I took pity on you Howard as you seemed to have run out of "Big Issue".
Terry - And remember,Howard,look what happened to the previous big issue seller from outside Somerfields...now a guest of Her Majesty along with a well known local
publican. - I'll make myself known the next time that I see you Howard.
- It's nice to see you posting Alec, I'll
catch up with soon I hope. - I had a day off work and I was over the Abbey with my dog,and I
do like looking at birds well I was down at the river and there they were Two Cormorants on the bank I know we see alot of them down at the sea side but I have never seen them in the Abbey before, comared with other water birds the
Cormorants swim very deep in the water did you know they dive from the surface and hunt by sight and also when in the water they steer with partly opened wings and push forward with their feet, at times we also see the Heron and the
kingfisher well worth you coming out to the Abbey, but what I will say if you have adog please keep it on the lead, today I also saw a dog rush after the birds.
I remain yours faithfully Vic M - Paul will not mind me puting this on the forum, but will not do it again if I am asked.
If you are keeping up with my life story on the other side,this week is about,back from Kneller
Hall,how I lost my job in the band,and end up in Scotland as a whichdoctor all at the age of 18years this is a great story and fun to read about army life in the 1950s and 1960s I just happen to be there.
Just to let you know I will
not run again for the council I love what I AM doing at this time more time now out about when not at work +more time with my wife I am having some great fun still geting over the paintball fighting from last weekend, and also you will
be please to know I will not be doing anymore events only some singing.
I remain yours faithfully Vic Matcham - Hi Barry W-S,
I don't get to town as much as I used to do but still pop into the "you know where" occasionally to keep up with the gossip. Table 15
is not as busy as it used to be.LOL.
Alec. - After the meeting at the town hall some weeks ago at the public meeting I asked the D.H.B. chairman was you going to sell off
the port?I was told NO ,even after the meeting again I went up to their chairman again said to him you have just told us all that the port will not be sold off is that true, again he said that "He and the D.H.B. was not going to sell
off the port.Also asked him about taking on local staff, he told me again that the D.H.B. would take on local labour if the skills were there,after the news today about leting the tugs e.t.c go out to tender I fill I WAS TOLD LIES,
I
now think that D.H.B. ARE GOING TO SELL OFF THE PORT by the back door can we stop it? over to you.
Vic Matcham - Hi Alec, table 15 has only had myself in occupancy twice in the
past year and that was yesterday & today, time to move on methinks. - I think that your comments have fallen on deaf ears on the Forum Vic.
No mention at
all on the Letters Club and yet it has been on the news all day. The thin end of the wedge I think. - Barry,
Pity about Table 15, we have had some good conversations and laughs
in the past on that table. I almost made it today but the gales and rain kept me indoors. Will probably make it tomorrow as the forecast isn't too bad.
I sent a postcard from Greece to Table 15 years ago and it got there. Do you
remember that.?
Alec. - That's way before my time, but I do remember you telling me.
- Hi Alec
If you would like to join the Letters Club Forum let me know
either by email or put up a message here. We are always interested in good contributions and contributors...and indeed I remember you from the old forum days. - i am trying to get to the bottom of this riddle about table 15.
is it anything to do with visiting
hours? - Thanks for the invitation Paul.
Alec. - Howard,
Table 15 was for members only, if you passed muster
and were accepted by a majority you were a member for life. Unfortunately some of our members have left the fold and numbers have decreased over the year so we are looking for new members.
I am not stalking you, but I saw you in
the Library this afternoon. I was going to speak but you disappeared into the Adult Learning Section.
Trader. - alec
you are still being a bit obtuse here.
is
this a freemasonry thing?
i know a couple of local lodge members, but they always keep shtum if i ask them anything.
our mutual friend baz keeps tugging his right trouser leg when i see him, but i think that is just his
way. - Howard,
definitely not a Masons job, any one can join. We all pay for our own p.ss, no getting into rounds etc..
I don't know about Baz's problem with his trouser
leg though. LOL.
Was it you that I saw in the Adult learning section of the Library today or not.? You haven't owned up yet....
Alec ex.Trader. - I've always had that problem, me Mum said it will go away when I grow up, but as you know that will never happen. lol!
- Great Picture Colette! Congratulations to all the students on achieving their well deserved results and not forgetting the teachers & tutors for all their hard work.
A special Well Done to Briony, Your'e a Star! - Congratulations to the girls for their A and AS level results. I love to hear how people get on, and what they intend to do next. Best of luck to all those going to university - a new and
exciting time :-) - A hearty congratulations to all
the boys and girls that have attained the grades that they needed to go on to college and university alike, a big well done. - Well Done DGGS, another successful year! Congrats to all our Dover students. Briony and her friends certainly celebrated well into the early hours, well
deserved. - I have just learned of the passing of a beautiful lady-Freda Hornsey passed away in early July and the world is a darker place without her.
I have known and worked with Freda and
George and am proud to have them as friends for over forty years.
Buckland Hospital lost a stalwart but I hope her work will continue.
My condolences to George and Alan and may Freda rest in peace. - It's great to see our Dover 'A' level students doing so well, my girls did
really well at DGGS. We are lucky to have such good schools around us. - why is dover still a bomb site can anyone tell mewhy it still is
- Don't knock it Max, I grew up on a bombsite. Great for playing cowboys and indians. Kerpow, kerpow!
Terry - Kerpow, kerpow - Terry, thats from the old '1960's style' Batman and Robin not cowboys
and indians!!!!!!
Those old bomb sites were indeed great playgrounds with toy guns and bows and arrows. Translate that to todays sad state of affairs - the bomb sites would be cordoned off by the 'elf n safety' fascists,
someone would report children seen with toy guns and they would get surrounded by armed police, forced to drop their guns which would be confiscated, the children would be finger printed, their DNA taken and warning given.
As
for firing the bows and arrows! God forbid....
What a sad state of affairs we now have. - Terry
You can't say 'Indians' it's now 'Native Americans'...As for cowboys I suppose we could let you get away with that one but is does conjure
up an image of the all male pop group belting out their hit song YMCA if you get my drift.. - Marek!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Barry - you may laugh, but what you describe
about small boys with guns actually happened to my son a while ago when he was much younger - and he is, I have to say, one of the most law-abiding adolescents I know!!!!! - Bern, I do wonder exactly who rings the police when they see boys with toy guns. Do they really mistake the guns for real or is it
some self-righteous anti-child-with-gun pacifist wally.
There was a report of it happening to a young lad who's plastic gun could not possibly be mistaken for a real one even at a distance. That boy was put through the kind of
ordeal mentioned below.
More fool the police as well for reacting in an over the top manner, they should arrest the person who calls in for wasting their time. - Paul
Is it on Maison Dieu Rd at the entrance to St Marys Playing field.The one where they hold their summer fete?It has an old arched windowed remains in the
grounds. - aaah my golly...I am defeated, I am undone...
Marek you are absolutely spot on!!!!!!
Got it in one.Well I never. Thought I would win on this one. But
no....
Brilliant spot Marek...Oi'll have to be thinking of another one so I will.
I will put up a wider pic in a minute or two so people can see.
Well done again! - I
cannot believe that again, the needs of Dover are being sidelined by the plans being put forward for a cable car to the castle. So much noise is being made about the benefits of the cruise liners calling at Dover not being realized, and
how the passengers by-pass Dover to go to Canterbury and London. An opportunity exists to bring people into the town, by having the cable car go from the town centre - Pencester Gardens would be an ideal location - to the castle, but the
plan is for the cable car to go from the Western Docks to the castle, allowing the passengers to avoid putting a foot in Dover town.
With cross channel traffic not stopping in the town, and now plans to keep cruise liner passenger
away, is there a strategy somewhere to make sure that Dover never recovers from the beating it took during WW2? - here here chris.that money should be for developing the town and not for
lining english heritages pockets which are full to overflowing. - the money is baksheesh, we should be grateful.
if it came out of our council tax, then we would have
a right to hold an opinion. - We all have a right to an opinion, although you may disagree with it! I don't think we have thought police in this country Yet! Dovorians have a
right to contribute their opinions concerning their environment, and how any money is spent in the town. The money is not baksheesh as you say, Dovorians equally pay their taxes into the pot the same as anyone
else.
- I think it is
more than opinion - if transport goes directly from the boat to the castle it is obvious that there is little incentive for people to visit the town, especially given the horrible shabby facade that greets them. When we walk back from
the seafront through the underpass the delapidated houses and shops that greet us are appalling and would certaninly not encourage me further if IO didn't live here, which is a shame given how lovely the town can be if you avoid the
crap. - I won't give it away but I am sure it is on my website somewhere !!
- i am not quite sure how the thought police are brought
into this issue. - That's because the
thought police removed those thoughts Howard...keep up!!!!!! - thanks for that bern.
no wonder i spend so much time in a corner with a pointed
cap sporting a large "d". - MESSAGE FOR PAUL B
Can you text me my password for letters club forgotten it! been away a while cheers
mate - Ah jeez Keef oi'll swing for ye so I will !!...forgetting yer password again..yer a very bad person!!lol
Okay will email over...if people lose their passwords I normally have
to rejoin them as thats something they do themselves so I dont have any dealings with passwords, but I have made a note of the recent ones for people Ive joined up from here....and I have yours. Will email over.
Seriously though
if anyone loses their password its not a problem and we can fix it all ...just let me know.
Paul 'Scotchie'....Marek guessed the monolith very fast. See fresh notes at top of page. - paulb
can you text it to me? - Try carrier pigeon - at this rate it will be
quicker!!!!! - message for paulb do you have my moblle number ? can you text it?
- i'v got so many passwords these =days to remember it
appears im in a life of passwords, bank, work, forum etc etc
making my brain hurt - Keef cant text at moment as having technical probs with phone needs replacing. Only some facilities
working. Not sure if I have your mobile number but have your home number and will ring in a few minutes..howzat? - ok
- re asda i personnly would like to see a asda supermarket
down at the bomb site rather than the eyesore we got know.at least with asda you can and go buy food or drink or both whereas you cant know.asda must have done there home work to make such an aproach to be included in the rebuild of the
area at least it will look better than it is know and might bring some life to the area.at the moment we only have two supermarkets in the area 1,tescos witch is out of town,2,sommerfield/coop down by stembrook flats.so having a third in
the st james area would be a bouns then you would have 3 to choose from. - Yes Max I expect ASDA have done their homework and were enthusiastic for the development when they
had their exhibition last year in Pencester. I wonder if they are still as enthusiastic today. Even though people dont like the sound of what Im saying next I guess I have to say it anyway, but it is really our only option at this point.
I cant see anything else on offer.
I have to walk through the delapidation everyday...Im off out to do so again shortly, so rather than leave it in this awful state I am keen for ASDA to come and bring some life and money into the
area.
Otherwise we will be left with the current wretchedness for the foreseeable future, which might as well be forever, as far as Im concerned anyway it will be forever. - yes paul
we need somthing there to make the town more appealing to visators and such like.once we got there attention who knows the skys the limit. - PAULB/MAX
You are correct I suppose, ASDA is better than nothing, but should we be aimimg so low?
just a point - I
for one would have preferred Waitrose however as their prices are rather higher than TESCO and ASDA how many Dover District residents could afford to shop there?Judging from the number of people in NETTOs at the weekend not many .My
first visit to the shop.Iceland is also very busy.If you have a family to feed and live on benefits some super markets are out of reach .Let us all live in a real world. It isnt all Pimms you know. - SUE
I find your last posting rather dissappointing,
If you talk to most sincere Dovorians they will tell you the town is Dieing
thats not a proud statement, its one that eats
away at me every time im in town.
DOVER deserves better, and everyone hopes that things HAVE to get better.
We all have a role to play, and all want to see Dover prosper.
without trying to sound to negative Dover is
looking very tired.
I recently popped over to Deal and saw how different things were there.
If Asda is going to be the start of Dover getting better, then bring it on, sadly I don't share that view.
But I do have the view
that DOVER DESERVES BETTER. - thankyou sue,if asda is willing to invest in a tired downtroden town like dover then other big companies might follow suit.all it takes is one big company to
start the ball rolling. - Max
Why did I know you would say that - kieth keep your chin up and have faith instead of being negative
all the time. - Im positive Asda wont change Dovers plight
- kieth you got to start somewhere asda is a start.wot do you want
harrods,fenwicks,house of fraser or a bomb site? - or better still a wet weekend in bogner?
- Well, I took a leisurely stroll
from Whitfield Hill into town via London Road yesterday. I cannot understand how the London Road businesses make any money, there were no customers to help offset the crippling Business taxes and other costs. To be blunt, the London
Road part of Dover is as dead as a dodo and is beyond rescuing.
Walking from the town hall down to Market Square and empty shops, charity shops and gambling dens abound. Even Pencester is looking run-down now.
Castle Street
still suffers that interminable eyesore of an ex-nightclub. Why can't DDC do something about that?
The Townwall Street area looks like WWII ended last week! Everywhere is decay and eyesore.
My long held view is that ASDA
will finally kill the town centre but I am also inclined to agree that something needs to be done to kickstart Dover. I would have preferred something to make people stay in the town, not a supermarket or a stupid cable car that will
bypass everything! Only an idiot would fail to see the flaw in that idea.
TCM failed miserably under the new manager (although his brief was a little odd) and was rightly killed off, but what has taken it's place? Nothing!
Who is responsible for the regeneration of our town? No-one it seems.
I have no magic solution to offer except to suggest that maybe radical and/or brave thinking is called for; allied to a complete set of new people
with fresh ideas to run the place.
Sadly, on this trip home I find myself seriously considering where else I might live because almost anywhere is better than Dover right now. After 22 years here, that saddens me quite a
bit. - depressing isnt it sid sad but true.
- Keef
its not up to ASDA, a private company, to change Dover's plight. In a way Dover's plight, as you put it, has nothing at all to do with them. So you may be looking at this from the wrong perspective. However they are prepared to open a
large supermarket by way of a development that includes houses shops and a hotel, so the whole package may just work well in our favour.
But they are not on some Christian Crusade to save the world from itself. Theyre just a shop
after all! - Sid an interesting post, there is a solid feature in todays Dover Express that you might like to look at, its about the difficulties for traders in the London Road...it features
the London Road Community Forum and the lady who took over from fromer top man Terry Nunn...Jeanette Harper. She bemoans the fact that there are now 8 empty shops in the London Road alone. This is not creating the right trading
circumstance there... to say the least. - paul i saw that artical to read it with intresst and know the young lady well.did you see the other artical about the dhb and what lloyeds said
about it. - Sid
Excellent posting.Like yourself I travel abroad a lot and when I return home I see Dover in a different light.I am always full of hope that something.. anything..
has changed hopefully for the better but Dover looks worse now than it did when I arrived in the summer of '78.
I think one of the problems seems to be that many Dovorians have lived with it longer than us and now no longer live
in hope but live in despair.Voting in and changing councils and its leaders in the vain hope that they will fulfill their 'promises' to take Dover into the 21st C .Well we are in it and have been for 8 years and the only real changes I
can see are the kids new playground in Pencester(but temper that by reading the letters page in todays DovExp) and brighter traffic signals. - paulb
no im not coming from the wrong angle.
many posters on here have stated should ASDA come it will help to kickstart Dover.
I always said that would not be the
case.
Paulb
I do realise its not ASDA's job to sort Dovers plight out, nor should it be, but when you have lived here all your life like little old me and see how desperate the situation is it does lead to frustration
i hope im wrong
- Sue N - please keep posting - you reveal so much of yourself when you do.
- Bern yes I do not hide away, my life is an open book .What you see is what you get .I recently had to have a photograph taken for Age Concern .The photographer is good at air brushing .For
excample "i said where is my mole " He said "What mole "Lo and behold he had airbrushed it away .I refused his offer of further airbrushing .I have a well lived in face as I said what you see is what you get .Im very honest and to
the point .I cannot suffer fools.
Pleased to see Sid is back .
Bern do I sound like a Tory .A lot of people think im a socialist. - I
had my weekly business breakfast this morning in Canterbury and was speaking to an electrical wholesaler who travels all around the county.
He was speaking about how many shops have closed in Whitstable and how their town centre
is being taken over by charity shops where they are not empty. Sounds a bit familiar....
He mentioned the same about Canterbury, two very long standing shops have closed and I mentioned one other I know well that also closed last
week.
Everywhere is sufffering in this recession. Technically the economy is not yet in a recession but my 'feelers' are telling me that certainly, in retail and parts of the hospitality industry, there is very much in
recession right now.
What hope for Dover in these circumstances? Sometimes we all post about Dover's problems as if all is well everywhere else but that is not the case, Canterbury might sneeze but when it does Dover can catch a
real cold...
This is no comfort to us. Our businesses really do have their backs against the wall and are fighting for survival. I wish I knew the answer, the only thing I do know is that there is no instant fix and no one
single pill to cure Dover's cold. The regeneration activity may well be hindered and slowed down by the economic conditions but hopefully things will pick up and regeneration will position Dover well for revival when the economy picks
up. - Barry ,due to commecial sensitivity no names however I know of another frm who are closing there doors in about five weeks time.They have been trading
for many years.Very sad. - That may be true now, but
Dover has had years of poor management and poor investment with no valid excuse at all. I am keen not to allow people to use "recession" as an excuse not to do anything. - agreed the hard times come and go like most things.
- Recession
Bern is not an excuse for struggling businesses, its a real challenge, its a matter of survival right now.
As for investment in Dover, DDC's reserves were wiped out when Labour ran the Council for 8-10 years and while the
Council's finances have since been stabilised they still have some pretty big challenges largely due to unfunded responsibilities being placed upon them by the Government.
As for businesses and investment can only be based on
commercial considerations.
Other quasi governmental authorities like SEEDA, well, these wheels grind very slowly as we can all see but, without going into the full list we all know about the regeneration projects planned. I just
wish I knew when we will see action on the ground! - Barry, I wasn't particularly referring to businesses locally - I think I was aiming mainly at elected
reps etc who, as we know, sometimes seek a peg on which to hang ineffectual or inactive behaviour. Businesses are often at the mercy of the tides of fortune, I know. - sue would this be sommerfield by any chance,theres a strong rumor that the coop are buying them out.
- more than a rumour max, the co-op bought somerfields a month or two ago.
it was the headlines on business breakfast one
morning. - Barry, the second world war ended in1945, the Council has only
had 63 years to try and improve Dover, you can't blame one particular council they've all been incompotent.
What exactly has the town achieved, a multi-storey car park built on prime land and from the day it was opened never paid. A
discovery centre whose architecture is akin to a gas works even down to the rounded part which resembles a gasometer. Again this was built on prime land.
Thenwe have the infamous Burlington House which again never paid.
To cap it
all on the best land of all they built a block of what were then Council Flats and which your average person could not afford.
What is there to look forward to and get excited, only the Councillors are getting excited the rest of us
have heard it all before.
- Clearly Dave with your expertise and knowledge, with a competence far greater than all the
councillors that have served Dover since 1945 put together, not to mention your superiority over all those highly paid professionals who have worked for the Councils, we should simply put you in charge and let you get on with sorting the
whole thing out!!!!!
You know, even then you will have some smart alec, maybe even called Dave, making inane posts about how useless you are.
Such is life when you get into office. Everybody, just about everbody down the
pub knows better than you do. - And how, exactly, does offending the electorate and fellow posters encourage debate? It really is true that there have been
63 years since the last World War in which to set a standard for Dover............we are entitled to comment. - A robust reply Barry, I am simply asking what have successive councils achieved
since the end of WW2.
Perhaps you ought to visit some of the pubs in the town and then you will find out what people really think. - the only council to build anything usefull were the romans and tudors.at least they wernt afrayed to get of there backsides to do
somthing for dover. - I don’t think we can deny areas of incompetence of Councilors that have served in Dover since 1945, or more appropriately in 1947. But this same incompetence
can be seen in all colours of local and central government across the whole of post-war Britain. Unfortunately these decisions have had a longer legacy in Dover due to a continued attitude of isolated town planning, dealing with
singular elements. I think good choices have been made at times as have so many bad ones. Ronan Point is a classic example of local authorities competence in all things planning based.
Barry you are right ‘the bloke down the
pub’ always knows best is laughable at times with these people rarely doing anything to implement their grand designs. However what happen in pubs and any public forum (such as this) is the sharing of views reshaping and reforming of
opinion. An idea at first ‘the bloke down the pub’ didn’t really understand becomes the assimilated opinions of other individuals. What happens on occasion si that a consensus is formed that is actually quite well reasoned. This kind
of process appears to have been overlooked by so many of the decisions made in the town in favour of a more ‘if you’ve got the cash’ attitude. This isn’t about having more expertise or knowledge than the people that have gone before, we
just simply have what they didn’t, hindsight! And Hindsight tells us that our representatives for Dover and their highly paid professional advisors make mistakes, leading us to a logical and realistic outcome that perhaps they are
making another!
Burlington house was designed by professional Architects and passed by the professional Town Planners in the council, as was the not so architecturally offensive White Cliffs Experience. Dave if you are talking
about the Gateway flats in your post, I think the only thing that is questionable there is perhaps the positioning; they are all occupied, beautifully design and built to a specification we won’t see again! The one thing they all have
in common is their lack of dialogue with context. The wonderful lesson that hindsight has informed contemporary, competent town planning is that ‘object building’ that is not part of a master planned infrastructure is not sustainable,
which is exactly the approach we are seeing with St. James’
Now the standard line is well you find the investors, but the investors for what? A piece of land? Much of the town planning that has sought to rid town and city
centres of post war planning mistakes; is a plan that highlight and addresses the problems providing the capacity for investment. This plan is then populated by investment. I’ve asked before, what are the problems with Dover town
centre and how are they being addressed?
- Bern - Dave got it right, a robust reply. I have been the 'man in the pub' myself, in exactly the same position as Dave. But I have also been
the elected councillor in my time making one or two of the decisions so critisised by Dave.
I really detest excessive sensitivity towards straight speaking. I simply will not walk on egg shells.
My comment was directed at
such an absurdely sweeping statement that got the reply it warranted. - I have to say I prefer straight speaking myself: clear, unambigous. One has to be
careful, though, that it doesn't topple into being off-putting, because then we lose the opportunity to hear the more timid voices, and they are as valuable as the confident or stroppy ones. - Bern if we worried excessivley about 'timid souls' we would not have any debate and it would be utterly boring.
Dave is no timid soul any more than I am....
Placing it in context (and without this being any kind of dig at Dave) do you think it OK for someone to have a go at just about any councillor and officer who have served Dover since
1945 and not get an equal response?
Perhaps you think it is OK because councillors are not timid souls and if you put your head above the pararpet you expect to get shot at. That is exactly my point, councillors, ex-councillors
and others should be perfectly free to respond in a 'robust way'.
Back to DT who makes some good points.
The WCE was a decision that I was involved in directly. The design was partly dictated by the archaeology and if
memory serves me right it won design awards. Dave's critisism there was primarily aimed at the design and that is merely a matter of taste.
The Gateway flats were built by the old (pre-District) Town Council. They were never
meant to be social housing but premium housing because of the location. I remember back in the 70's if you wanted to upset someone who lived in the Gateway you would describe them as council flats, factually correct, but not an image
they valued! DT is right to question that location, however. But as he infers hindsight is a wonderful thing.
In the current society would it be better to instead have that area as part of a vibrant waterfront development to
include the seasports, marina, restaurants, shops cafe's and so on (Gunwharf Quay in Portsmouth as an example). But that was not the world we had back in the 50's when these flats were developed. There were different priorities and
needs with a much lower level of discetionary spending than we have now. - Just to be clear then Barry, you are not overly concerned with encouraging, or
more pertinently not discouraging, the more timid voters and citizens to voice their opinions or concerns? I would be a little concerned that I might miss some decent views and suggestions that
way............ - The Town Centre and London Road.
I hav been in Dovor all my life and never, never have I seen the Town center and London roadso bad as it is today. it
is true ure to say that other town centres are not that good to.
But Dovor is the Gate to the U.K. from the sea and is the first place seen by millions each year.
We neen new faces with new ideas and lots,lots of fundinG.
We
also need to pull down not do up most of London Rd and even some of the Town centre the buildings are far to old.
But I am sorry to sat this but all we get is talk and flats from the D.D.C.
When are to see things happing in a big
way with our town, not in my life time I feel.
Yes I do talk alot about it but that is all I can do.
But the Councils also talk alot About what is going to be done but it never, never happens.
You can not keep puting
plasterboards over old walls pull the old buildings down but please let as all see it going on NOW.
Stop the talking and get on with it or move over and lets get new faces to do the work we do not need more talk from politicians who
are just manoeuvring for power on both councils what we need is persons with the passions to move on and get the work on the way.
I will stop there for now but you will be hearing alot more from me over the next few weeks I was
hoping to pack it all in but seeing the Town E,T,C, like it is today I must keep going.
Vic Matcham
- Sorry about some of the wording on my last post,I have just looked at
it again it was not that good.
Vic M - there are some tetchy posts here
allso some beliefs. - i think that victor is saying in his own blunt way, what most dovorians think.
the london road shops??
what can one add. - shopkeepers selling goods.
- Bern. Probably to the same extent as you judging from some of the exchanges you have been involved in recently!
Perhaps you just think its OK to have a go at public figures but not the other way round... Fair opinion if that is so, I just dont agree with it, anyone who says something is open to challenge, robustly or not, however is
appropriate. - You are right Barry. I think I should record this moment.......
Absolutely, we should all be
open to challenge, I guess I am just aware of the people who might be scared off if challenged too robustly, but who have something to say and a need to be heard. I can take a challenge
and a bit of an exchange of verbal blows, as I
assume you and others in "positions" can, but there are some timid people, some with learning disabilities, some vulnerable or frail, some simply mild and retiring, who might be put off, and I wouldn't want to miss their views. It
would be a loss. - Im fully in agreement Bern with you there...if we chase posters away then whats the point. I have had a chat or two with BarryW about this before, about the modicum of
restraint needed. BarryW is very passionate about his views and of course is one of our tip top posters. But the same applies to everyone.
If for example the councillors are forever getting a kicking then they will simply not
engage or post anymore...I suspect we have lost Nigel for this very reason. I still meet Nigel for a jar or two occasionally...but if people are insulted continually then they wont come back.
Its not an elected council chamber
Doverforum, but an entertainment, so its worthwhile remembering that.
We might kill the thing we love. - mmmm i can live with that.please come back all thats left.
- hey vic pigs might fly one day.
- surely councillors and any other politicians should be treated the same as everyone else.
if
i stated that i was the messiah, just arrived, then i would have to accept
that some posters might doubt the truth in what i say.
no-one has to make claims about themself, but if they do, then scrutiny will occur. - With
you PaulB, but I have to say that I don't recall noticing that any councillors were being unfairly targeted: they are elected members and accountable, and if treated/challenged without rancour then they really should do their job and
respond! This forum is an excellent place to network and reach out and canny counsillors will recognise that. - I agree with you Howard, some councillors do not like being in the firing
line, it is almost as though we are not supposed to question or criticise them because they are always right and the poor old electorate is a moron.
My particular posting was addressed in regard to the body corporate not the
individual, I am well aware that there are good and bad councillors as there are good and bad in all walks of life.
I make no apology for the deliberate way in which I worded the posting I wanted solely to provoke a debate on what has
been accomplished since the end of the second world war.
Barry I think may know me and knows that I am not afraid to voice my opinion, his reply was robust but I took absolutely no offence whatsoever, i n fact that was his view and I
respect him for it. - Just read your posting Bern whichmust have crossed with mine. I totally agree with you.
- Hello
I think i have been here before.
When iv spoken to Sue
and\Nigel and Roger about the continued cllr bashing they told me (when they were in opposition) well as elected members you have to expect it.
No sooner had our Nigel/Sue got elected than they were saying they were not happy
at being attacked(never agreed with me when they were in opposition) so to me more so NIGEL it stinks of double standards.
Iv always been of the opinion that every cllr should be accountable, but what went on a few years back got
into personal attacks just because someone had blinkered vision.
Im for open debate, but allowing everyone to have there say and not to be attacked for saying it.
but im just a little pleb in this big wide
world - a bit like dubris in the express.
people laugh when it is someone else in the firing line.
at the end of the day, the flak is fairly evenly distributed.
i have
never seen anything really serious in that column. - I love it when they all have ago at me it keeps the old wheels going round so lets have more of it.
Vic matcham - vic when are you going to start pink elephants for dover campainge i am sure you will get a lot of support for this.
- Howard
I'm afraid I don't share that latest view.
There has to be a\ line where you say hey thats to personal.
Wot we have had is a bit of fun in dubris, which is all well
and good, but then it became like a personal smear campaign on some individuals.
If you look at this from the angle of say the SUN newspaper then fair enough(i suppose)that sells national papers.
But here we are talking
about local community papers and I think one of papers did itself little justice when it went over the tiop on mounting such articles.
Even taking away the rights and wrongs of this, If I were a person who was thinking as a very
new up and coming standing and keen and saw some of those articles I would think twice about putting my name forward.
Let's be honest even politicians are human? but tryting to get people to stand for councils against this is
hard.
IU don't share the view that because someone has put themselves up for LOCAL office that they should be able to have the pee taken out of them, but I suppose it will go on, am i glad im out of it
- kieth who pulled your chain chill out have a hot chocolate and a choclate digestive.
- MAX
Its not a metter of chilling out, its a
strong view I have and have always had, and most people know where i'm coming from,
others may differ, i'm just giving my view, nowt wrong with that
and yes these days im very chilled out, more relaxed, do things when i want,
so that side not a problem. - good to hear that kieth keep taking the pills you will feel better
soon. - Hello MAX
Im pill free thankfully - hello kieth thats good to know keep up the good work.
- MAX
hope to see you at the next BINGO session 7th october 7pm
church hall, old folkestone road. Not seen you there yet.
come to that not see a flood of people from
aycliffe
even those that post on here!!
I recently attended Aycliffe school bingo had a good larf and thats wot its all about, so hope to see you and residents of Aycliffe and any other residents there.
family fun for
all
keith - kieth i will chek my diary if im free i will be up
- Everyone has a larf
good
night
- goodnight kieth.
- I meant everyone has a good night
- And to end a lovely evening Dover footy club won 2-1 tonight
great to see them doing so
well - good morning kieth.
- good evening kieth and fellow posters and how are we this
evening. - Im surprised no one has made comments on todays event .I saw a glimpse on the news at 6.00pm but very short .I thought some of our regulars would have said something??It
was a lovely service sad that it came on to rain at the end and I think a few people were understandbly wet and cold .I think Winston Churchill needs a better researcher I did not know Dover had become a city or we had a
corporation.
- Max'
its very
nice all this special attention
but i waved to you yesterday and you didnt wave back you were in town - sorry kieth didnt see you,i am wave to you know.oh by the way good morning kieth.
- MAX
good morning, hows the republic of Aycliffe these days? - quiet at the moment
expecting trouble later with the main road blocked for some reason or anther. - Wonderful pictures of the new statue. Does anyone think
we could do with a few more? They could become a major feature for Dover. The Airman at Capel is truly wonderful but does not get seen by many people.How about a feature statue on each roundabout . Soldier,Sailor,Airman.Landarmy
etc.
They could be very popular. I love the statues in London as well. Very useful when walking around so one does not get lost. Captain Scott,Florence Nightingale,Eros
etc.
I feel sure that visitors to Dover would enjoy Statues with perhaps a Wartime theme to help them find their way around. How about a group of evacuees near the Priory Station ? - Janet a good
suggestion as the weight and substance a noble statue adds to any location at all is very good indeed. There are great statues of course in London and have you seen the fantastic one in Calais..if memory serves me well it is of the Town
Burghers and is outside the equally splendid Hotel de Ville.It may be a Rodin or am I barking mad with that one!?
The only downside to all this of course is cost. The new statue/ memorial on the seafront cost £46,000 and it took a
long time to raise the cash for that..where would the money come from for all the others. However its a nice dream and maybe one day...
Delighted to say people are still popping down to visit it and yesterday I saw one elderly
lady wipe a tear. - I think the idea of more commemorative statues or artwork is great! I am just back from
accompanying my Mother home to Ireland after she had a short break here and we did a bit of the tourist thing - the Battle Of Britain memorial at Capel is so moving, we loved it. It's impossible not to be moved when looking at all those
poor fellas names and thinking of their families. It is so important to keep the memory alive and to respect the memory of all the people who lived through that time. We should have more freely accessible historical information and
interest: like statues and artworks! They would have the additional benefit of stimulating interest and therefore visits. - O.k THE WAIT IS OVER.
At the next town council by election I
will be standing as follow.
Vic Matcham,
Every Thing,
YOU SEE IS,
Black and White.
A True Independent standing just for the
rights of the residents of
ST. RADIGUND,S WARD.
Funding it myself and that is now in place and I am looking forward again to the challenge which lies ahead, bring IT ON.
Iremain yours faithfully as always
VIC MATCHAM
- i must agree with all the comments maded about statues by bern, janet and paul.
they do add a certain gravitas, even the abstract ones.
good idea about the
evacuees being commemorated in this form.
paul
you are right about that statue, it is by rodin.
i stand hypnotised by it, when i see it. - I would like to see a
statue of Churchill placed at the lookout point below Dover Castle staring over to France.What an evocative piece that would be. - Yes thats a good idea Marek re Churchill looking towards
France...sounds great in fact. There is a statue of a soldier up there looking towards France. In the winter when the bushes are thinner I can see it from one of my windows but have never seen it up close so dont know what or who it is.
Looks a smallish one. Sad to say have only ever been up at the Castle once since I came to live here.
In Parliament Square in London there is a controversial statue of Churchill. I remember when it was unveiled and it caused quite
a holy stink, as many didnt like the way it depicted him as a crumpled figure. Lady Churchill, also around the same time, tore up a rather important newly commissioned painting of the man too. - Paul, the statue that you can see at the castle is that of
Vice-Admiral Ramsey who masterminded the Dunkirk evacuation in 1940. His headquarters were in the tunnels below the castle near where the statue stands. - Many thanks Brian for that as I
often wondered who it was standing proudly at the clifftop..
thanks also to Howard there for confirming the statue in Calais is indeed a Rodin. No wonder its fantastic! Rodin was a master. Was in Calais recently and didnt bother
to go up that far but am sorry now...should've had another look. - I too agree with Dover getting more commemorative statues, and talking of which, how is the statue commemorating the death of the town centre coming
along. Oh, sorry, you all might know it as ASDA. Has an opening date been announced yet?
I hear the shop at the top is already displaying it's Christmas wares. Time that practice ws stopped methinks. - brian and paul.
i had never heard of mr ramsey until i moved here and visited the castle for the first time.
he is certainly not a household name, why???
my understanding that he was dragged back into action, when the invasion went t*ts up.
that must be one of the most incredible life saving operations of all time.
the tragedy then, was that he died soon after, in an air
accident.
we have enough statues of military people that took lives, but only one, that i know of, that saved so many allied lives.
- Unfortunately Sid we gain one statue but are due shortly to lose another one...our
seafront Miner. It will be a sad loss from the seafront and will leave an unfillable hole as its very popular.
The ceremony and service for the new statue the other day was truly memorable and a special day for Dover and its older
citizens, particularly those who remember the war first hand, and indeed for everyone else who attended. - Howards thanks for that info..sad to hear that the saver of so many lives died
himself soon after. Yes a memorial to a military man who saved lives must be a rarity.
The statue we talk about is just to the left of the lookout platform ( looking from France) and at the cliff
edge. - I agree with Marek, a statue of Churchill would be perfect in Dover.
- yep lets have more statues in dover,replace the fountain with a statue simler to the one in calias and call it silly burgers.
- Oh that looks like a choppy crossing for
anyone on the high sea's today rather them than me, water water every where this weekend. - I take it you mean a statue of cllrs Max?
Terry - yep thats the one terry.
- OH now now boys thats below the belt.
- A lovely bit of
poetry there Doverforum Dick, Shure there's nothin like a bit of prose! - I stopped using prose after I married..ouch..the wife just clouted me...
- hope Dover does improve, i'm getting realy worried now agree with Sid's
posting on Asda
am i losing my marbles? - hear kieth asda,asda,asda 3 nice marbles lol
- mAX
Heres 3
more
ASDA less
ASDA less
ASDA less - tescos,asda asda tescos and evan more asda bring it on.i love
asdas. - acordding to the news on the radio its the big bang today,could this be the end of the world as we know it?
- Yes indeed
Max this is Big Bang Day from CERN in Switzerland. These science bods are up to re-creating the universe or some such hairbrained thing. Oddly I had never heard of CERN in Geneva until my brainbox daughter Briony said she wanted to go
there this very summer...where!!?? sez I..whatzat??
Anyway go we did and off she went to CERN while I dappled my toes in the lapping blue lake of Geneva..and now she wants to go back again..oh dear the expense!!arrrgh!
This
event today is getting lots of coverage this morning on Radio 4 and it is good to see European science steel its way back to the top again like it used to be once upon a time...top slot having been wrestled away by the Americans in
recent times. The world is watching, some people are raising concerns that these scientists might intervere with some sort of natural balance by doing such experiments but hopefully all will be
well. - Well the device was switched on a few hours ago and no black holes have swallowed up Switzerland so I think we are safe.
- Have you had a look in Biggin
Street outside Thomas Cook? - Nice to see people still comeing to look at the statue looks lovely in the the picture there MR B.
not sure I understand about black holes but we
are still here after all the coverage thats been on the radio today. - I like the inscription on the plinth, very moving and thought provoking.
- yep gas holes as done by gas board.
- Yes, as 'any fule kno' the statue in Calais is a Rodin. Under French law one is allowed up to 12
castings of a statue so there are a number of copies of the figures literally all over the world (although with different groupings of the figures).
For those who wish to see a copy without visiting our cheese eating surrender
monkey neighbours there is a copy in Victoria Towers Gardens just west of the Houses of Parliament. - here bob try looking at the italian heros book,sniggers you wont find any.how many gears has a italin tank have,answer 1 forward and 6 reverse.actuly there are loadsof
french heros some are still standing in ther trenches from the first worldwar.the american inuendo is unfair american view of the french,not forgetting they WHERE our allyis in both word wars,the yanks screamed lowder than any other
nation fighting,hence they got there nickname screeming pigs. - ps.its called the trench of death and you will find it down verdun way.verdun is the most decorated town in europe,the
french defended that line for 364 days under constant bombardment 24/7 and not one frenchman surrenderd. - i suppose that the german chaps would not go any further because of the
garlic smell.
mind you, i have never seen that in a history book, so it may not be strictly true. - no howard it only kills snails and cats.
- oh i forgot vampires,bloodsukers and suchlike.
- hms victory should be brought home to the place where she was built
CHATAM where she will have lots of tlc and will be an asset to the dockyard. - We could with the Victory parked up in Dover along with a couple of other ships from different era's
as tourist attractions.A far better idea than the bloody cable car! - yes marek another good idea, the victory has been ancored in these waters during nelsons times its well
documented. - here kieth has labour lost the plot.
- i take that as a no commet then kieth.
- It looks like Keith has gone AWOL for the moment Max. What's this fascination with our man Keef..its true he used to stride his territory with sweeping dignity, a true man of the
people, when a multi councillor, but now he is just like you and me, part of the proletarian workforce...sigh!
Perhaps we need him to return to the council chamber. - or maybe not
- they seek him here they seek him there they seek him everywhere.has kieth done a scarlet
pimpernel or has he starlag lufte 13 down at bormouth again. - Max/paulb
yep im just a pleb these days
but still busy in communities like aycliffe
see you all there in the
church hall on oct 7th for bingo night
olfd folkestone rd eyes dlown 7pm - wellcome back kieth how was stalag lufte 13.
- Max
As much as I appreciate your humour I do find
your references to POW's slightly offensive.This forum is hopefully read around the world and I would hate to think that our international readers would consider Dovorians as small minded bigoted racists.
And before there are too
many complaints a good section of my family were in both POW's and Concentration Camps.Time to move on methinks.
We have serious issues to consider like culling of seagulls and why do the Highways authorities commence their
roadworks during busy school terms? and who the hell nicked my mates bike... - ok,sorry marek no offence just my nickname for butlins etc,shant mention it again.
- Max
Thanks and I loved your comparison to Butlins..it made me
smile.Cheers - you are welcome.
- MAX
Have to say was surprized at way you put it, and marek right for questioning it, it was tongue
in cheek though(hopefully)
Had a number of probs at Bulins, to numerous to bore people with on here so I won't.
Suffice to say it wasn't great And Butlins has a lot of work to do if they want people to visit.
I have made
an official complaint because it was so poor.
k - yes kieth it was a touge in cheek thing from the 60s.butlins was allways a bit of a joke.
- Of course once upon a time Butlins was the epitome of glamour. It was the chosen/preferred destination for millions of families especially after the
dreary bleak years of WWII...oooh the excitement of Butlins! Billy Butlin was a household name. A kind of genial uncle to the masses.
To be a Butlins Redcoat was the hallmark of unparalled success...honest! Many a budding two bit
entertainer made stardom after a stint as a Butlins Redcoat.
The kiss of instant death was the rise of the ultra cheap package holiday to Spain. The masses headed for the sun complete with their proletariat 'Kiss me Quick'
hats..and Butlins slipped into decline. Billy himself died. The glory years were over.
Its had bad press too in recent times due to their standards, but sadly they cant do much about it, as they just dont have the economic power
base of Disneyland or even Alton Towers. No wonder Keef complained. He wasnt the first complainant and probably wont be the last, until the sun finally sinks on Butlins - Paul
Yes the
overseas package holidays sounded the death nell for Butlins.Had they had their thinking caps on at that time they should have opened their overseas Butlins camps sooner rather than treating it as a 'passing fad'.
Package
holidays to Butlins in the Sun would have been very appealing and a great attraction to the holidaymakers of the 60's and 70's. - the whole holiday camp idea is dying a slow death,since
euro disney,alton towers etc started up.i cant see why they didnt diversefy earlyer so they could compeat on an evan keel. - I never thought I'd say this....but my parents and I took
the kids to a holiday camp a few years ago and had a lovely time. Mainly because the kids enjoyed it, it has to be said, but it was glorious to see them enjoying themselves so much and so simply. I'd recommend it for young (under 14)
kids. - i have been a couple of times over the past 10 years, had a great time.
they have changed/evolved over the years.
the boss has rightly pointed out the origins.
when
mr butlin launched them just after the 2nd unpleasantness with the huns, people were desperate for fun.
they liked to be awoken at sparrows f**t, to be fed , watered and entertained for the rest of the day.
holidays were so rare
then, that they did not want to waste a minute.
nowadays, holiday villages, provide entertainment and activities, and leave it to the inmates to choose whether they want to join in. - That picture and those words are surely a winning combination PaulB. I'm sure that lady's dedication will make her dreams come true.
- To the anon poster using
the pseudonym Paul Gadd aka Gary Glitter.Your postings are in bad taste and you obviously suffer from some form of mental disorder or sexual inabilty.Should you wish to persue this type of sick paedophillia type references I am more than
willing to afford you a one to one counselling session...but you haven't the guts..
Marek - Marek have deleted those now...I didnt twig myself so thanks for pointing it out to me in
your email. Well done to you for being alert. - Got to hand it to those who wish to take on the english channel, in all kinds of weather you can see them practiseing most sundays.
- im sure there is an easer way of crossing the channel.
- Not at the moment. If you swim across you're probably more likely to get to France ahead of the Ferry's and certainly ahead of the tunnel. (har har!!)
- oooooh you are allfull but i like you.
- maybe the chap in charge of the harbour board would like to give ademonstration of walking across?
he seems to play the part
of the 2000 year old numero uno often enough.
no offence meant to those of religious persuasion. - are he is not a god but a falce profit especialy when he gets his pay slip with a huge bonus with it.
- Is the swimmer making for France (nearest Hospital services)
As one who has attended many meetings on the subject all I can say now is
hurry up with the high speed rail link.Fastest A&E access by public transport will be London.
I did attend the meeting at the Ark yesterday and have sent an Email to The Dover Express on the subject but as with the timing of all the
trust meetings by the time The Express goes to print next week it will be old news.
We were told that when building starts foundations will strong enough to take additional floors as required.
Looks like another Burlington House
going up eventually then and we cant get rid of the old one yet!
- yes there medical services are a lot better over on the contienent,a few
years ago my mother needed a knee replacement repacement so my younger brother took her over there after making the nessary arangements.it was a medium sized hospital clean and tidy with the docters and nurses were polite and curtius
during her visit.to cut a long story short she could have both knees done for the price of one here.the moral of the story is if you need a operation quickly go to france or better still belguim.
- Very interesting posts there. Love the remark about the swimmer heading for France for medical
treatment as its the nearest hospital..dear oh dear! it just about sums up the plight we are in, and when you get there you get better service.
I dont know whats gone wrong with our hospital plan here. initally the reports seemed
to indicate we were getting a large general hospital but the whole thing has been stripped down to a basic cottage hospital with just 20 beds it seems. A cottage hospital for the Port of Dover is laughable.
The Government Minister
Mr Fitzpatrick, who visited Dover yesterday, more on that later, said "Dover is a very important element of the UK infrastructure" but if we are, and we know we are, why are we having to make do with a cottage hospital fit for a sleepy
village. - Seems sad we as a town seem to be at the thin end of the wedge on everything, surely DHB by putting things out to private tender means that any profit also goes out of the town, with the greater
traffic flow what sense does that make where does investment come into it.
- I read in todays Times that an Egyptian Judge had sentenced a donkey to 24 hours in prison for
straying onto a corn field and devouring a corn of the cob.And who said the Law is an Ass....lol - I have been trying to find out any information re the three old cannons down side the town hall,with
out much sucess. So I emailed the Dover Musuem & i ot this very nice reply from Mr Jon Ivson. I thought you all might like to read it.
Thank you for your emails on the subject of the three guns outside Dover Maison Dieu.
We have checked our records here and find that they were donated in the 1930's. I have had them examined by the Curator of Artillery from the Royal Armouries. He has not yet submitted his report but said whilst on site that they
are three pounder guns of the pattern introduced during the 1780's. Two bear the arms of the Master General of Ordnance Charles Cornwallis, 1st Marquess Cornwallis (b.1738 d.1805) who held the position between 1795 and 1801. The other
gun has a more worn coat of arms that is probably that of John Pitt, 2nd Earl of Chatham (b.1756 d.1835) who held the position between 1801 and 1806.
Once I received the information from Royal Armouries I will be able to give a
fuller answer.
Regards and best wishes
Jon Iveson
When i get a further reply I will put it on here
Roger H - good to see our MP
giving support to the victims.
i await with interest, what the views of the other candidates are.
a good chance for chas to show what he really thinks about our town. - Whilst one could understand a plc, which has a function of maximising profits for shareholders, going down the line propose by DHB, I am at a loss to understand why a trust port should do so.
Since 1606, when a Royal
Charter was granted creating the Dover Harbour Board to administer the harbour, its sole function has been to run the operation with any revenue earned by the port being ploughed back into its maintenance and development.
In 2007
the Board's turnover was £57.7 million and profit before tax increased to £20.6 million. Hardly a position where one has to look to the bean-counters to make cuts right, left and centre.
I consider it to be the unacceptable face
of capitalism where the eight members of the Board of Directors (two of whom received remuneration of £154,000 and £105,000 in 2007) are behind the sacking of their workforce who may then re-apply for their old jobs with worse
conditions of service.
Perhaps it might concentrate the minds of the Board, if they too had to re-apply for their positions in open competition, rather than being appointed to a rather nice little sinecure through the 'old boys
network'.
One is reminded of the words of Yosser Hughes in The Boys From The Black-stuff whose catch-phrase was 'gissa' job, I can do that!'.
I suspect that many could, and a damn sight cheaper. - A good, concise and informed post Bob. I particularly like the idea of making the Board reapply for their jobs. The fact that they would never have to really exposes the nasty act being
undertaken. I would not only like them to reapply but to get their positions and then operate on a wage of £5.50 an hour.
Howard, as for Mr Elphicke, I suspect he is full support of DHB's decision: Apparently it is just like a
game of Monopoly, DHB have Mayfair and Park Lane with a hotel on each and their workers are just about hanging onto Old Kent Road, it really doesn't matter if advance to 'Go' or not! - Thats why you need good effective trade unions to rebalance this.
- dt and others.
it will be interesting when the election comes around, when questions come from our citizens about where chas stands on various issues.
a nice haircut and well cut
whistles may not mean much then. - HOWARD
He came out witha BANG (chas)but not heard from him for some time - Keith. so you were wondering what Charlie's views were? So was I, so I got off my arse and e-mailed him. FWIW here's what he said:-
Dear Mr Frost,
Thank you for your email. I quite
understand and share many of your
concerns. Perhaps it would be helpful if I set out where I stand on the
recent changes at the Port, as well as its future?
First, I stand by what I said publicly at the Port Consultative
Committee
the other day. The Port of Dover is a national asset and should remain so.
National Security and Border Security are overwhelming that the Port should
remain an asset of the nation. I oppose the privatisation of the
Port for
these reasons.
Second, I am deeply unhappy about the recent changes at the Port. In such a
serious matter, it is right that the current Member of Parliament should
take
the lead, so I have been quiet on it to
this point. Now the dust has begun
to settle, I must express concern that the Ministry of Transport were not
only consulted about the changes, but appear to have approved them. The
Ports Minister, who turned up the other day,
and the current Member of
Parliament should clarify exactly what the Ministry's role in this was a
matter of urgency. They also need to level with the community whether they
will permit further privatisation or "outsourcing"
of Port jobs.
Third, I am worried about Government's future plans for the Port. T2 will
require a lot of money. Possibly more money than the Port has available on
its own. It may require a joint venture partner. If that
happens, it is
essential that DHB retain management control of the joint venture. It would
not be right for the Port to be under the control of European or Middle
Eastern interests - again on grounds of National and Border
Security.
These are my thoughts and I would be genuinely interested to hear what you
think about the way ahead. The Port is Dover's largest employer by far and
critical to our economy. It's therefore vital that we all
work together to
get the best result.
I hope you will feel I have been straight and direct on where I stand - if
you have any queries or comments, I would be happy to provide clarification.
Best wishes,
Charlie
Elphicke
Conservative Parliamentary candidate for Dover & Deal - Bob you just beat me
to it..have also had same from Charlie through too and was about to upload. So well done and now we have Charlie's views on the DHB situation. Will add a pic at top of page shortly to draw attention to
it.
THE SOAPS.
EASTENDERS, EMMERDALE, CORONATION STREET,NEIGHBOURS, HEARTBEAT,CASUALTY,and the rest.
I think it is time to call it aday on the soaps, all we get now is ,
SEX,MURDERS, OVERDRINKING,MEN KISSING EACH OTHER ,and they
are on the T.V.at times when your own kids are seeing all this going on.
I must say I used to like watching some of them but not now.
They have now gone pass family watching. The only one I still look at is Emmerdale still is some
fun to look at, but the rest lets get them off our T.V.
vIC mATCHAM- the only soap i have watched in the last 20 years has been coronation
street.
two episodes in all, it was announced in advance who would guest star.
one was peter kaye playing his usual part, the other ian mckellen as a randy pensioner.
priceless performances from both. - vic try retuning your typing finger,put brain in gear put glasses on and start typing.
- And the alternative to this Vic is
listening to you talk waffle. Give me the soaps any day.
You do have a choice about watching the soaps or not it's called an "on" "off" switch.
Sadly we don't have that luxury with you, but I can at least dream
- what would happen if victor is elected for dover and deal
at the next general election?
words may have to be eaten then?
- Thank you all for your comments,But I still feel they should make way for new, there is only so
much can happen in one street or town or hospital also they follow each other with their story lines etc.
I remain yours faithfully Vic matcham - not by
me,about time he retired anyway. - NOR ME MAX !!!
- I would move away if Mr Matcham ever became MP for Deal and
Dover - i have never seen muriel spelt that way before.
has our victor sent your knees shaking? - Ah now guys dont be harsh
on Vic..he is one of our real characters and always good humoured about it all. You will never have seen Vic be nasty to anyone despite the provocation and there's a lot to be said for that...so live and let live. Vic is best enjoyed
with a bit of humour. - You are quite right PaulB.
- Hi Paul B. You have kind of hit the nail on the head regarding Mr Matcham.
He cannot be taken seriously.
No Howard MC no knees trembling. That is the
correct spelling of my name.
Born in South Africa,and quite a popular way of spelling the name there - is there a nice holiday spot there with no electric,internet connection or
running water please tell about please murial. - can you tell vic about it i ment to say.
- Your right a one off is our Vic and
where would we be without a few characters around. - in a sanatoriam going bonkers.
- Thank you all for your comments.
I left
work today and went with my Nomination papers to the D.D.C. Officer who looked at them,and came back to me and they are all O.K. so now I am a Candidatefor the St Radigunds parish ward seat on the Town council my Nomination papers were
in order, also I am standing again to go back on the River Parish Council I can be on both at the same time.
I will be standing on my own again not red or blue just as Vic Matcham and I will be going again for the job of M.P. when it
comes round, I will be doing a post on the town council at the weekend and how I see them and what I like and dislike about how it is run, and what part can I play if I GET BACK IN.
As all ways I remain yours faithfully vic
Matcham [ THERE IS ONLY ONE VIC MATCHAM USE HIM OR LOSE HIM.] - oh dear vic i fear a mass exodus coming on.you 67 now 69 at the next genral election have you the stamina for it.
- Max one word,
YES - Its worth while remembering Max and Vic that 70 appears to be the new
40. Just look at those adds with Jane Fonda in them at age 70, when I was young 70 year olds were little ol grans on sticks with navy floral print dresses, so well done to Jane for re-inventing the age ceiling. Also John McCain fighting
for the US presidency is 72...looks like these people have the energy to beat age. Not sure where there getting it, I could use some of it.
In the UK though we dont view age so well. We are ageist. Look what happened to poor oul
Ming Campbell , last years leader of the Lib Dem Political Party. He was unceremoniously kicked non stop ad nausea by the newspapers for looking old. In fact I kicked him myself for looking too old...and he was a mere whippet in his 60
's. I guess we dont have the same respect for age that they do in the US. - I'm 64½ and certainly don't feel it. I don't feel it 'coz I keep taking the tablets! I walk down the town
each day to keep the joints working. I'm about to get a rescued GSD (last one died 3 years ago) so it will be tramping the hills at 6am. Good luck to Vic, my advice to everyone is, if you can keep going do so. Once you slow down
and put your feet up the rot sets in in.
Terry - paul b,terry only time will tell if vics plans work out.
- Paul, Probably your best pic ever.
Sad and beautiful all in one shot.
Love the pic - nice photo paul.
- Vic
If elected to parliament how do you stand on certain issues.
Would you cap mortgage interest rates to help the economy ,stop golden handshakes etc.Abortion are you for or
against it.The Iraq and Afghan wars would you withdraw our troops or what.
Nationalisation of utility companies..whats your opinion.How about energy do you support nuclear ,wind farms or coal based.I would be interested in hearing
your views before putting my 'X' in your box on the voting slip. - When I saw this photo I instantly murmured a prayer and when I read the copy I became quite thoughtful. Just goes to show
what the power of photography can do. This statue is so fitting for Dover. - A wonderful photo. Very moving, very evocative. As someone from a long family line of
merchant seamen (my dad, my paternal grandad and my great uncle to name three), I feel it captures the true spirit of Dover. Superb. - VIC
You
are aware of my views on your standing, but its a free country and yu have every right to do so.
It will be an interesting bye election, and so will the outcome.
I wish you wel, but hope the labour candidate wins!!
Bob
Frost
It was interesting our charlies view on the port, but what he didnt say was the local conservatives are still up for privsatising the port(ie our Baz and p watkins)or have they changed there minds?
so if thats the case how
does it fit together? how can charlie campaign against the privatisation and the local tory party campaign to privatise it?
something not quite right there .
In general
Vic And I in the past have campaigned on many
differing issues, and no one can say vic dos not have passion, how you channel that passion maybe, but Vic will be Vic and I dont fink we woul want him any other way.
All i will say is as iv said before Vic needs to watch his home
life. and his own credibility and iv said that to you vic.
In all honesty you have no chance at the general election, and i know how down you were when the coount was announced at the last one and you vote so low.
I dont want to
see that passion be drained as it was that night.
I am seriously looking out for you vic in that way.
but at the end of the day its up to you. - Stop
causing mischief Keith.
You know how the system works, Charlie will campaign on the Party policies as in the manifesto and as PPC he is our Parliamentary spokesman. Local political parties do not set their own manifesto, so
whatever I might want is immaterial and I have no official position any more.
Pretty true to form, misrepesent the truth just as Brown did in his speech. Isnt it time that dirty campaigning was knocked into touch by all sides?...
It didnt work for your lot in Crewe. - barry,kieth causeing mischief youre having a giraff arnt ya.
- Just wonder how many people have stood in front of that memorial with their silent memories since it was erected, a good few i'm sure.
- Glad to see you guys liked the photograph.Much appreciate the positive comments.
- i saw it for the first time the
other day, was most impressed.
just the right size, and the inscriptions were perfect.
if, as we think, the lady in the picture lost someone who was in the merchant navy, she would have been quietly pleased that
recognition
had finally came.
a very moving picture, the fact that it was not a close up, made it seem more poignant and inobtrusive. - i have to agree with howard on
this ocasion. - It is indeed impressive and not just the size, but what it represents.
A beautiful photo
Paul, well done.
Roger - A nice picture :-) A memorial here for our Merchant Navy people was long overdue, and all congratulations to Don Hunter for this.
I felt so very proud, at the unveiling.
In WWII my dad was Merchant Navy, and braved the Atlantic convoys. My uncle was with the Maid of Kent, then a hospital ship, when it was bombed. The Merchant Navy has been an overshadowed
service, but their contribution to the war effort was vital. As Winston Churchill recalled a speech of his grandfather, "But for the Mechant Navy, who bring us the food and munitions of war, Britain would be in a perilous state, and
indeed, without them, the Army, Navy, and Air Force could not operate".
It's not just in WWII that Merchant seafolk were vital, nor that we lost them. At Tower Hill there is a memorial to all those whose only grave is the sea,
and WWI casualties there number 17,000. Amongst them are Dovorians, like little Bertie Gilham, not quite 16 when he died of exposure in the channel after his ship had been torpedoed. His mother grieved till her own death. With him died
one of our oldest, Daniel Wyborn, aged 63. He left a widow and grown-up children.
Let's never forget - nor forget those who were left to mourn forever their lost loved ones.
*
Happy Birthday, Roger!
- thak you maggie for those kind words,broght a tear to my eye.
- Thanks Maggie and thank you for your card -
you're not in Dover are you ??. Lovely day for a Birthday.
Yep, 60 today.
Glad I don't feel/think as old as I look. It's strange really that the brain and body don't age at the same rate; good job too I
guess.
It's always seemed so far a way and now, here it is.
Bus pass here I come !!
Roger - Welcome to the over 60's club Roger. Great
isn't it? I trust you celebrated in style. Re the bus pass, they're great. Think of all those parking tickets you'll save on!
Ah! the thought of you and Sue Nicholas both on the bus going about your respective business
boggles the mind.
Serioulsy though, well done.
All the best,
Terry - Thanks Terry - yes I hear it is a good club.
I obviously
didn't think of everyone Terry but you and your good Lady are very welcome to join us at Blakes for a few drinks, impromptu music and a supper - starting around 7.30
ish.
Roger - BAZ
i DONT HAVE ANY OFFICAL title either in the labour party.
but its not mischief making
if the local conservative party is in
favour of privatising the port and paul watkins as a leading conservative
and the conservative parliamentary candidate is opposed
thats opposite views, not misleading at all
tell me baz is it incorrect then? - FA CUP LATEST
DOVER WON 3-1 TODAY TO GAIN EVEN MORE DOSH FOR THE CLUB
NOW SITTING PROUDLY OP OF THE LEAGUE AND IN THE HAT FOR THE NEXT ROUND AINT IT ALL LOOKING GREAT
HOPE FOR A
GOOD DRAW AND AT HOME
MAYBE THIS YEAR DOVER CAN OVERCOME THIS HURDLE WHERE THEY KEEP GOING OUT IN EARLY ROUNDS
MAYBE THIS I THE YEAR FOR THE CUP RUN
COME ON YOU WHITES!! - Happy Birthday Roger.Welecome to the Bus Pass Club.Yes Terry I get a lot of work done on the bus .I even went down to the firework bash on a bus .
- Aaaah! welcome to the
over 60's club Roger...it's all sex drugs and rock n roll from here... honest!! and you can even indulge in all this extravagance by bus! it can almost be too much for a chap so it can.
I say
'almost'... - Thanks Guys - and Sue of course.
It was a good evening at Blakes, everyone enjoyed themselves, including me; it was a joy to see everyone there happy, laughing,
smiling and dancing: great company.
Good music too, with Richard Ginn, not so much Buddy this time, but singing all sorts of songs, ably accompanied by one newly discovered Karaoke Star
Great stuff.
Along with
Nigel's card was an application form for a bus pass !!
Roger - Roger, yes many thanks we had a great evening. As for that Mr Webb, what medicine
was he on? - Roger
Great evening..I over did it slightly with the real ale.Anyway the Police were really nice and released me about 5am this morning. I
told them I had been to your birthday party but they were unimpressed and said that Williams and the Croc were in the cells next door!!!
Only joking.Love to Jean..for putting up with you and your birthday hat. - Thank you Roger,
See you in B &Q on a Wednesday!
D - Sadly Roger I didn't see your posting until this morning. However we were at Peter
and Kathryn's place at lunchtime so it might have been a case of too much of a good thing!
Terry - Do I need to apply for an OAP card then David ?
I'll pop down on MOnday to check.
Seems there are some advantages to being 60 afterall.
Roger - I've got a card Roger but I must admit
that I don't use it very often. only for the high value things. Wednesdays are usually fully of the "rent a granny" brigade.
Terry
ps I'm told that the Whitfield store will open in March. - i hope they arnt red cards like you
get in footie. - Yes Roger there are more advantages in France where they accept 60 as the age for
discounts so its up to you to ask.
Its not just bus and train passes and heating allowance you know
Regards
D - Brilliant fireworks night and nice pic PaulB despite your battery failure, you see this is what happens when you get to the big 60 you forget to plug yourself in for a recharge lol! Take note
Roger! good to hear you had a fab 60th. - Happy Brithday Roger sorry I am late with it,my wife and myself hope your wife is well to please send our love to
her.
my wife is now 60 years, but please do not tell her I told you that.
And I am 67years old and I am still working here and there welding etc, do not know when I will call it aday.
We bth have our bus pass but I have not
used my yet and my B.Q. card and also there is one you might not know about it is the Harvester Restaurants Privileged Guest card one third off all meals now that is avery good one to have save lots with it. And one you might have heard
of is the Dover not DOVOR lOYALTY CARD I always have it on me.
Vic matcham - Good picy MrB of fireworks really good display, Hey Roger sounds as
though your birthday went well joining the ranks of the 60's club. - Thanks Guys (and gals).
It's Jean's Birthday today, so I must wait on her all day, so back in business
tomorrow !
I must remember to get one of those Loyalty Cards Vic, thank for letting me know !!
Roger - Hi to Roger the birthday boy and all at Blakes,
Thank
you all for getting into the party spirit and making it such a great evening.
Really enjoyed the audience participation (you know who you are!).
Regards,
Richard - happy birthday roger hope you had a nice one.
- Thanks Max -
very kind of you.
Thanks Richard - you made the evening. Every one I've spoken to since has said how much they enjoyed it - as you say, great audience participation, which also adds to people's enjoyment - I thought I was
listening to the Everly Brothers !!!
Roger - Goodness, Jean's birthday too?
Well, happy birthday to Jean also, and many happy returns. What a festive household!
Was it your good lady wife's birthday recently, then, Vic? - gosh all these bithdays i cant
keep up happy birthday to all. - Maggie,
No my wife brithday was in APRIL. - My blinking sixtieth last month as well! Was away working so now in Paris having short break to celebrate (or get over the shock). Congrats and
commiserations to my fellow old codgers. - Hope you are enjoying yourself in Partis there Ed and enjoying a bit of romance. Yes the old codger group is expanding swifter than a middle age waistline!
- ahhh paris,full of frogs and
snails,there again you got eurodisney near buy about 25 minuits on there fab trains,nice diversion from the high brow stuff in inner city,its an oaps playground. - THIS COMING TUESDAY
Don't forget this coming Tuesday (7th Oct~) is family fun bingo in the church
hall, old folkestone road Aycliffe Eyes down 7pm
hope to see you all there.
and the same Town and pier activities club is also running a coach to Romford on 29th November only 20 seats left get your xmas goodies
for
details contact lesley on 210072
waiting to hear from you all,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, - I see the Dover Mercury beat us all with their picture of the
firework spectacular. It was taken by one of their readers who had the wherewithall to stay further afield and capture the town and fireworks in one harmonious shot. The chaps name is Terence Dorries. Its featured small at the top right
of frontpage of Mercury and also larger on page 5. Stunning pic for sure.
If this chap sends it in to me will use it on frontpage. So if yer out there Terence...??
We can reproduce pictures far nicer than those prehistoric
newspapers !!lol - Sorry we have been away in Nottingham and I'm only just catching up. Belated birthday greetings to Jean and Roger, two lovely people. All the best, Jeane &
Les xx - good to see you back jean, did you get to see robin hood?
- Hello Jeane welcome back..things have been a bit
quiet from yerself so was wondering where you got to...so you were upthere mingling with the boys in Lincoln Green tights ! Isnt there a rather famous Robin Hood statue upthere, did you get a
picture? - Hello Paul (and everyone),
Yes I've been on my travels. There are a couple of statues but I didn't manage to get a photo this time. I have a new Leica camera and have
been taking lots of animal, bird and (of course) cemetery shots. I have also just done a book cover for a US horror writer (creepy looking angel) and working on photo book volume 4 which keeps me busy!
I'm still looking in and
will be chipping in as usual now I'm back.
Jeane - nice to have you back jeane.
- Thats a very dramatic picture there PaulB,
as you say the seascape constantly changes by the hour. A good point with reference to local artists, there are a few that I have seen majority of the paintings of the sea being views from Hythe or Deal. - nice picture paul keep them coming.
- Fab pic, Paul.
Unbeatable, old Dover, isn't it? - True, Paul.
True, Paul. All the coastline round here can be dramatic and evocative (I know very well, living on Deal seafront), but those local artists
who choose to ignore Dover are missing a trick. The light from the cliffs and the seafront, the Western and Eastern Heights and the castle can be simply spectacular - second to none. - Thanks Max :)
Oooh fab picture there Paul B, love the light filtering through. - Very atmospheric photo Paul - well
done.
Thanks for your good wishes Jeane; Jean's daughter Heather is over from Palma (Majorca) just now, so we've had a busy week.
Had to go to the dentist today to have a great big molar taken out - and it stills hurts
(every one say aaaaaaaah !)
Roger - Oh very mean and moody sky there I'm sure there must be some artist's around who can capture our ever changeing
landscapes till then keep takeing the picture's MR B. - This photo is one of the best I have ever seen,well done.
Vic M - Very nice picture Paul,
very dramatic. I love a moody sky, clouds are soooooooo underated. We just take them for granted, but they can be really aesthetic in the right light. - Speaking of dramatic
coastlines around here, I was once fortunate to be standing on Deal seafront and see two waterspouts out near the Goodwin Sands somewhere. They came tumbling down out of a massive and grey ominous cloud just hanging there like something
out of Lord of the Rings. They just silently crept along the horizon before slowly disappearing. It must have been twenty years ago, oh, to see that phenomenon now and have a camera ready. - I have now been told that Morrisons is still coming to Dovor but it will not now be in OCT and even I do not know the new date yet.
Vic Matcham - so is asda when certain people get there act together.
- Big Fire in London rd the road is block off that is all I know.
Vic matcham - Many thanks guys for all the positive comments on
the English Channel picture. Always appreciated. It was one of those fleeting moments - was lucky to get the shot.
Many thanks now too to Terry Nunn for the latest pictures currently at the top of the page on the London Road
fire. - This is obviously quite a bit later than when I was there,but there were 8 tenders there by 06.30.The flames were coming out of the roof,all windows and the front door
when the firemen broke it open.
- The description is a bit out of date but that was the official line at 07.30 yesterday.
Radio Kent kept saying the road was closed between Ladywell
and Tower Hamlets!
Terry - Many thanks chaps for all the information. I have added a line to the editorial now to cover the earlier aspect as mentioned by John. Terry's
top of the page news picture illustrates the scene very well.
I understand now that one of the firefighters was injured and taken to hospital. - A good crystal clear photo there Terry depicting the scene for us all to see. I do hope
that fireman is ok, they do such a splendid job. Thank goodness there was no fatalities. - Yes came that way myself lastnight still some problems there this evening
getting through the town. - road know open.
- is there any news of the fireperson hospitalised yesterday?
- out and about so ive heard.
- Just to let you know that I have made some postings on the Dover Loyalty Scheme section.
Some are about the scheme and its members, others are
"public information". The latest one is about the scheme itself and the importance of card-holders using the card, or at least advising the member-business that they found them through the Dover Loyalty Scheme.
Do please read
them and if you have any comment about any of them, (good or bad) please post on here, or email me direct (lindenrog@aol.com).
I've been very busy lately working on improving the scheme to the card-holders and members, which is
why I haven't posted on here much lately.
Roger - Good pics!
I see the opportunity for another piece of elegant long term
shoring! - Quote from PaulB: I see the Dover Mercury beat us all with their picture of the firework spectacular. It was taken by
one of their readers who had the wherewithall to stay further afield and capture the town and fireworks in one harmonious shot. The chaps name is Terence Dorries. Its featured small at the top right of frontpage of Mercury and also
larger on page 5. Stunning pic for sure. If this chap sends it in to me will use it on frontpage. So if yer out there Terence...??
I used to know Terry Dorries but have not bumped into him for years. He used to drink in the White
Horse and lived nearby. He was an AB on the DHB tugs and dredger. He had a sideline flogging framed prints of photos, there used to be one of the waterfall at Kearsney Abbey hanging by the French doors in the cellar bar at Blakes. He
left to work on constructing the CTRL and did very well, rising to be boss blocker of numerous gangs working up and down the line. Nice bloke.
- Many years ago I was
involved in a project for testing diesel engines. I met Terry when he was on (I think) the FEIV. His son is now a driving instructor. Small world init?
Terry - Thats
very interesting there chaps about Terrence Dorries. Amazing really, to me he was just a name who had a picture in the paper, a good picture too, and you sometimes forget there is a real life behind it all. Great to hear those
stories. - Chris P
I'v just been on the dour forum I no longer have my username or password
can you ask the administrator to text them to me and i would be happy to post on
it
thank you for the part defense as well.
keith - Im back! did any one miss me?
- Certainly did Beth, looking forward to hearing more from you. Welcome
back. - i didnt miss you didnt realise you had gone
- Thanks Keith such a nice bloke/animal lol!
- Beth
I dont know who you are but enjoyed your constructive comments when you used to post welcome back - Thankyou Paul. I will be posting as much as poss. Good to be
back. - hi kieth welcome back.
- is this an episode of the "waltons"?
- yes howard.
- Well
I\went to bingo Tuesday didn't see any forumites there but a good turn out as usual. great evening enjoyed by everyone.
Next one first tuesday of NOVEMBER HOPEFULLY see a few forumites there?
- Glad your Bingo night went well Keef. Note you have just made the 500th posting on this Letters Page. This page of course replaced the previous one that was riddled
with...
Last day of the fire pictures above, but good to see our very own JHG, thats Cllr John Goodwin to those who havent twigged, getting superb coverage in the papers, particularly The Mercury, about his heroic actions at this
fire.
Also in The Mercury they have used that Firework picture again, the one we referred to earlier, the one by Terence Dorries. They must have read that we said it was the winning picture of all the pictures taken, and certainly
very worth reproducing again and now indeed they have. Great shot! - Thanks paulb the postings
fly by dont they!!!
the forum is going well, and is less of a\ problem than it was,
most light hearted, but very informative.
you often get your postings before the local media.
I enjoy posting and look forward to
doing so - Over a year ago I wrote to the Dover Express and part of my letter was a remark that Dover should be demolished to make way for a huge parking area in the town valley.Solving the
problem of op stack with a huge housing,shops etc developed on the hills above. Now, looking at the photos on Dover Forum with all the demolition going on I am starting to think that some clown in the bigtop at Whitfield took this
seriously!.I can see it all now.Lorries,trailers,coach parties,cars. With Burlington House still standing in prime position to mount huge traffic signs,departure times and adverts on whilst an army of Traffic wardens check that all have
paid and displayed whilst waiting for their ferry. Disruption and delays would then become a real benefit to the town rather than the nightmare that exists now. Silly me I forgot there's going to be a Hospital smack in the middle of it
all oh well,back to the drawing board. - DOVER 0 WIMBLEDON 0 (REPLAY AT WIMBLEDON TUES)
Crowd of 2,710(so they say!!)
gd
atmosphere, and Dover did themselves proud, and had some chances at one point hitting the upright.
but so did the strong wimbledon side, Dover will find it hard to stay in there, BUT COME ON YOU WHITES
- good to hear about the attendance keith.
nice if there was another good turn out on tuesday in the replay.
all
much needed dosh in the coffers. - Howard
Dover is well known for its support and is likely to take a larfe number of supporters to
wimbledon.
Dover is one of the best supported clubs in the area/leagues and it will be interesting to see Hessy plan for the replay.
COME ON YOU WHITES
Can any one explain the clubs policy on standing by the bar? it
would probably have eased congestion in that area if peple had been allowed to stand in that area(its done at other grounds) - Hiya all. Does anyone know when "yankee candel" shop will be re opening?
- As far as I'm aware Beth, it won't be.
Roger - roger
will they be selling the stock?
lot of interest in that shop - it took the landlord about 6 months to notice that it had closed.
he/she would
have found out only when the letters were piled up so high
that it was nigh impossible to open the door. - I shouldn't be commenting here as there may be legal complications, so I'll just say that my understanding was that the owner changed the locks so the lessee
couldn't get in. I don't have any knowledge about why he would have done that, so that can be up to anyone to speculate.
I don't know the landlord or the lessee, just that it is very unlikely to open again, at least by the
person who ran the business before.
There's lots of good quality candles and candle-related stock in there still and coming up to Christmas, could make great presents.
Good location for a small shop, but not for parking,
but then the bus stop is only a few feet away.
Roger - I bought some lovely Tin Christmas Crackers there a few years back.They are made of tin and covered
with Victorian style Xmas scenes.They open with a pop and are excellent as your can put in your own little gifts ,jokes paper hats etc and are totally re-useable year after year.
The landlord should open the shop and flog off all
the stock in a sale before Christmas.
- A super photo of the 'land of the Druids' on the homepage.
- Ah yes Marek, the one on the 'anchor page' of the Letters Club.
Yes the mists were swirling about as I made my way through
the dark woods. In the shadows i could see ghostly druid like figures moving through the trees, watching my every move, their dagger eyes flashing through the mist. What mysterious thing had happened. One minute I was strolling through
the 21st Century, at peace with the world, but then all this. Nothing was the same. Had I stepped back in time, was the mist casting a strange time shifting spell, or was it just my imagination running wild.
Its amazing what can
happen on Western Heights! Go there at your peril! - Paul
When I originally dragged my cursor over your photo the title land of the druids appeared,hence my posting.When I tried to send this post a few minutes ago it
completely vanished in front of me own eyes begorrah.spooky or what?Time to call in Jeane....theme tune to Twilight Zone fades in.... - Beware of those ghostly figures lurking in the mist Paul, the Western Heights
is a well known gay cruising area. - Is that right Dave, well I never knew that...you learn something new everyday. I think I was the last one to know about the infamous 'dogging' up on the other heights as well. We had
many a post about that a few years back. I suppose it doesnt go on anymore since they closed the gates in the evening. - don't worry about the gates paul.
dogging still goes on, there are various holes in the fence.
so i am told. - We have just a few places available now in the Letters Club. So if you feel like joining up and want to make a fairly prolific contribution
then please drop me a short email to the address above. - have been watching howard?.
- Does anyone know whats going on with the Dover Carnival website?
I used to use it keep on top of what awards the Court has won.
its all changed. Very strange. - howard
wot time will check my diary - Ooh
lovely can anyone join the party? - Kim have just had a look and I think its just that they appear to have made a whole new website. It looks that way to me but I must admit I havent looked at the previous one for
a while so dont know how long this new one has been there. - Hi Kim, The Carnival website is currently under a major averhaul. There were certain areas of the website which
needed updating, and this is why the website has been changed.
Hopefully you will bear with us whilst the changes are ongoing.
Hope that helps answer the question. Mandie
- Hi again Kim. The awards page was also sadly out of date.
The court this year have won a superb 17 1st place awards, plus many others. Totalling 41 with still a few
more competative events to go.
Again I hope this helps.
Mandie - Hi Mandie.
I understand some of that, however I dont understand why not update the old
website rather than do a new one?
I dont like the look of the new one at all. - Hi Kim. The new website design was selected by our current court. As this is their website, although paid for by a DCAL director. The girls wanted something different.
Unfortunatly you will not please everyone with a choice, but that's the way it goes - Hi Kim P
Many thanks for your enquiry on the Dover Carnival website, but
unfortunately, our webmaster of the webpages to which you refer, has not been able to maintain it regularly, as she has moved out of the town and is quite busy with other commitments.
We were unable to consider updating the
webpages to which you refer as it was built in a programme we don't have and as we already pay for a web-builder site with our current host provider it made more sense to use their facility with the input of our current court.
It
is still under construction as the old site was removed without prior notification to us.
If you know anyone who wants to do our website as a volunteer, drop us an email.
If you have any further questions, please do not
hesitate to contact me direct.
Best Regards
Terri Deane (Director of DCAL)
- Terri
Thank you for your reponse, that does clarify some things for me.
Maybe you could email some information about the requirements and I may be able
to help.
Kimmy x x
- Is It Now Time To Seriously Consider Bringing Back
The Death Penalty. Over the last twenty to thirty years we have seen the attitudes to society fall to an all time low where young people go about carrying knives and guns and are not affraid to use them as we see from yesterdays report
about another sixteen year old knifed to death in liverpool, these young people who carry the knives and guns know full well that they are only going to get between ten and fifteen years if they get caught where as the v ictims families
have to suffer a lifetime of not having their young family members around them. I know that there will be many who gasp and say no we are a sivilised country but are we sivilised by allowing are young people to carry these knives and
guns and haveing no deterant if this country is so concerned about the crime rate then maybe just to have this detterant of a lethal injection might see the crime rate come down from the day it was implemented. If people are concerned of
wrongfull arrests then a system like death row as in america should be implemented whereby it would give the authorities more time to investigate more thoroughly, I believe that if society doesent do something on a radical scale in the
next ten years I see vigilantee groups walking the streets to reak revenge for the killings of our young people. - much as i understand your concerns alan, the death
penalty is just a knee jerk reaction.
the countries that have it, have not benefited from less crime.
the society that you have described, surely would benefit more from stringent behavioural rules early on, making it less
likely that feral children graduate into murderers. - feral kids like hanging around.
- The problem Alan is that so many of the perpetrators are 17 and thereabouts. The victims are 17 and so are the culprits. So what are
we to do? It would take a brave country to start topping 17 year olds for criminal activity for the simple reason is that they have so much of their lives ahead of them. It would cause widespread offense internationally to almost
everyone and would reduce us to the level of third world infamy where life is totally cheap.
Many of us get into scrapes at 17, not murder hopefully, but you know what I mean..you can get up to this and that...so it might be too
easy for the near innocent to get involved in a very unfortunate incident.
I heard a report recently that some within the legal system are trying to get 'Life Sentences' re-defined. A life sentence is a mandatory sentence for
murder but the term 'murder' varies enormously from case to case. A battered wife after years of abuse hits her husband with the poker has technically committed the same crime (murder) as the mugger on the tube who stabs to death a
stranger. It could be legally, I say legally, difficult to differentiate as to who gets the lethal injection. - Alan i totally agree with you. 100%. Its disgusting way modern goverment let these yobs
control our streets. The prisons are a holiday camp for most. we should have the motto LIFE FOR A LIFE. - Beth, I cannot see how tou can blame the government for youth crime, surely parental responsibility must play a
big part, together with a strong family unit. My children were brought up to be respectful,polite and when they got older to be in at a certain time and that certainly did not mean being 5 minutes late. Children need guidance when they
are young and that reflects itself in the way they behave when they get older.
Many children these days are as a result of unwanted pregnancies sired by parents who are littlke more than kids themselves and who can't cope with the
strain of parenthood.
Regarding a'life for a life' and the fact that prisons are little more than holiday camps. I was fortunate enough in an earlier career to have visited most of the prisons in this country. I met many prisoners
who wanted to break out but can honestly say never met any that wanted to break back in. Would you seriously like to be the judge that dons the black cap and sentence somebody to death only to find out some years later that the
conviction was found to be unsafe.
- If someone commits a heinous crime then I fail to see why I as a taxpayer should pay for their upkeep for the rest of their life. Mind you, some "life" sentences only
last for about 12 years, but that's another matter.
Certainly I am in favour of capital punshment, BUT only if it can be proved 100% that the offender is guilty. Too often in the past we have seen miscarriages of justice through
faulty evidence, some of it from expert witnesses.
Terry - State sponsored killing is murder with permission. Not something I would like to endorse. If anyone hurt my family I would lwant to tear out their hearts with
my bear hands, but I should not be allowed to do so, just because it would be wrong . It seems that many people who complain about us going to war in Iraq and say it was wrong (and whatever the reasons or excuses, it did remove a foul
dictator) are often the same people who want capital punishment. Go figure!!!? - Bern, those of us who are pro-capital punishment tend to be on the right and are/were more supportive of getting rid of Saddam.
I am a strong and enthusiastic supporter of
capital punishment. Not for every murder, where there is any doubt at all then there should be an automatic commutation to life, meaning life and that means staying in prison until their dying day. People like Myra Hindlay, whos guilt
is not in doubt, should never have been allowed to live out their lives in the relative comfort having denied life to an innocent.
What I find absurd is that those who most fervently oppose the execution of the worse murderers
also tend to be those who happily support the murder of innocent babies just because they are 24 weeks or so away from being born. - Did we not
all sit back, Those who can remember those days at the end of WW2 and watch as the war CRIMES Commission sentenced to death many germans who had gased millons of Innocent men women and children,and did we not say thank god.so why should
we sit back and let young people kill when they feel like it with no Detterant. Is this not a CRIME Just maybe if some one is strong enough to stand up and take this on maybe Society my be a better place. - Barry - you are right - killing is killing wherever it takes place, in or out of the womb. We don't have the right to murder anyone or sanction that murder......if we
"sentence" someone to be murdered someone has to commit that murder - we are therefore creating murderers. It would be part of someones job description to murder.....that cannot be right. we would be allowing people to be brutalised by
their own jobs. I know there would be a queue of people prepared to do it, but that doesn't make it right. I hear what you say about the unfairness involved in housing and feeding someone whose very presence can be an affront because of
their actions, but as human beings we have to live with that in order to create a bearable society - one that doesn't expect and encourage state-funded and endorsed murders. I know that I would want to hurt and probably kill anyone who
hurt or damaged someone about whom I care - I also know I shouldn't be allowed to do so: that would brutalise me as well as my family and would degrade humanity. - I was in the army for many years and,while protecting God,Queen and Country in many hostile locations,I took the lives of bad guys.
Was I supposed to roll over and wave a
white flag because killing is "morally wrong"?
I'm sure there are some who say that's different but killing is killing regardless of the reason so how does that fit in?
For the record I'm pro death penalty and would like to
see it as an option for those sickos who abuse little children. - Bern
There is the world of difference between the murder of inncoents such a Hindley committed and the execution of said
murderer after a fair trial with a full and comprehensive appeals procedure.
I do not agree that all killing is unjustified. The execution of the Nazis (and Hitler if caught), Saddam and other scum like Hinday is fully
justified and is true justice for their victims.
As Steve said, killing while doing your duty protecting our country is also fully justified.
You may not be able to kill yourself but that does not mean that doing so
brutalises all those who do it for the right reasons.
I am waiting for someone to call in at the moment, just back from Afghanistan for a short leave. I dont know if he has killed, but as he is in the infantry and has been very
much in the front line, I would expect there is a good chance he has. I do not recognise in him someone who has been in any way brutalised, far from it, the opposite is the truth. - Dave. Did you see my going out outfit last sat? no body died but it could be arranged! lol. Steve i believe the saudi arabia way if you steal then you will get your hands chopped off.
FAR TO MANY DO GOODERS IN ENGLAND! - The subject of reinstating hanging and flogging is raised at regular intervals. I suspect that the main problem in today's world might be
that of recruiting sufficient individuals prepared to administer all this punishment. Barry Williams cannot be expected to do it all himself. - Albert. I would be willing to help Barry ! lol
- There is a difference between killing in defence and in
the field and taking life in a premeditated and calculated way. Soldiers are in a life-threatening position and I would wholly support them, even when there are accusatiions made of wrong-doing in the heat of the moment. Those who
express anger about it have no idea what it is like in the heat of the moment, in unfamiliar surroundings, with the threat of death and injury ever present. But planning the murder of another human being, even those who are monsters and
beyond understanding, is different entirely. It is galling to have to fork out for their food and keep, but it has to be better than becoming like them and endorsing state funded premeditated murder with all that implies.
- Remember theBirmingham bombers they were found innocent after something like 20 years in prison. If capital punishment had still been on the statute book when they were
convicted they would have received the death penalty. Derek Bentley a man of limited intelligence was hanged in 1953 for his part in killing a policeman and was posthumously pardoned in I think 1998, bit late for him.
We have
thankfully moved on, however when it comes to paedophiles, there is no cure for them and they will always be a danger to young children in this instance they should be incarcerated for life, meaning life.
Somebody mentioned Hindley in
this case despite the protestations of the late Lord Longford, she will die in prison. - Again, total agreement. In my experience (I have some professional background) it is
almost wholly unlikely that paedophiles will change or manage to control their behaviour and will remain a risk for the rest of their lives, despite what they manage to convince gullible social workers and psycholigists about. But,
despite their awfulness and in some cases the terrible crimes they commit, it should still be life (and yes life should mean life, no question of potential release as the risk remains high) and not murder, however satifsfying it would be
to throw the switch/administer the injection/open the trap door. And in many ways, an endless life incarcerated with other psychpaths and deviants is a better punishment than a swift end to it all.
- I too
have some professional experience albeit many year ago and have met all types within the criminal fraternity. A murderer who commits the act in a moment of sheer uncontrollable temper can be rehabilitated as in many instances they show
genuine remorse for their actions. It must also be remembered that when freed they are only on license and can be re-called at any time.
The paedophile however, has no remorse as in his twisted mind he believes that he has done
nothing wrong. many re-offend when released as the lure of the child appeals to what they regard as natural instints. That is the reason that makes them so dangerous to society. Dover at one time had the highest number of paedophiles
living in the district than I believe any town in the South-East and the frightening part is that other than the authorities, nobody knows who they are. - dave
i am
staggered by your second paragraph.
where did you get this info from? - having read the "debate" over capital punishment, how many posters in favour would
be willing to put a hood over a head, then pull the lever?
honest answers please. - It was well publicised some years ago Howard but where I can't remember
now, that is why I said 'at one time'.
Howard, the hangman is the states legal murderer but he must have enjoyed the job or he wouldn't have done it. Something sadistic there I
think. - certainly an interesting choice of career dave.
they were only paid a pittance for each topping.
the last one of that interesting family that held the
job, admitted that he believed he had hung many innocent people.
he was the cuddly mine host of a village pub. - Where does euthenasia fit in?
Would you end
a loved ones pain and suffering if you could and how is that different from execution?
I think you should also ask yourself how you would react if one of your children was emotionally or physically hurt.
There is a saying over
here that the most dangerous place on earth is between a mother and child when the child is threatened so what happens then? - Yes Howard I believe the place emptied when
he started rattling the cellar flaps. - Steve, euthenasia is usually a matter discussed between the partys' when all hope of a medical solution is not possible. It is not
an act of revenge, hate or temper. To reach such a decision, where you end a persons suffering must be terrible but a merciful release for the sufferer.
Many States in the USA still implement the death penalty but there are still many
people that are murdered which somehow discounts the deterrent theory. - i understand that the death penalty in the USA is normally reserved for uneducated young black
men.
at least, that is how it appears from outside. - Honest Answer, I would and for free
- alan
it may be an idea to book an apppointment with your GP for a referral. - Alan what degrees of murder do you think deserve the death penalty and
what minimum age would be involved?
Legal execution is not an act of hate,temper or rage but the culmination of a process in which the accused(unlike the victim/s) is
given due process then is executed regardless of how savagely he or she commited a crime.
The process could take many years because of appeals and legal wrangling-some innocent people have been punished it's true but the majority
are guilty and not necessarily because of skin colour or national origin.
I'll get off my soapbox now but will add with enough provocation a lamb can turn into a lion,Awra best,Steve.
- steve
with all due respect, you have not answered the questions about
degrees of murder and the minimum age. - And that's the trouble..........someone has to make a judgement and there will never be consensus, and when you are talking about killing someone it has to
be clearer and fairer and wholly removed from any basis in revenge or sadism. There are so many factors in violent crimes: yes, crimes of "passion" are usually committed by people who regret and feel remorse and will be rehabbed;
psychopaths - and I include paedophiles in that - will never change and will blame everyone except themselves and will remain a danger; crime-related killings are complex and fear/drugs/money/family may all play a part and it is not
simple to unravel. While there are so many factors, so many conflicts, so many points at which errors can be made, state-approved murder can never be an option. - Re degrees of
murder-if someone carries and intentionally uses a weapon or violence which leads to a victim's death that is premeditated and merits execution.
If it's proven beyond any doubt the crime was not premeditated then there could be some
leeway.
As far as age goes I think eighteen would work for me although some thugs over here hide behind "the age of consent" which separates youth from adulthood-I'm sure you've heard of little and not so little snots snigger
"You can't touch me-I'm a juvenile" and get away with mayhem . - Just a postscript to my previous message I should mention the intentional use of weapons and/or
violence while commiting a crime could be deterred by private ownership of weapons.
I have a pistol at home(I'm properly trained and certified in the use of said weapon)and would not hesitate to use it if required.
Remember it is
better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have oneAwra best,Steve. - Bern/All
There are some strong views on the death penalty, many come about because
of the way the state are not dealing with criminals.
Someone that does wrong(wotever age)needs to be punished and know they have done wrong, until this day comes the general public wil always look towards the death
penalty.
I don't support it at all, I'm concerned about who decides, what if they get it wrong(can't bring people back to life) and is it right to do it anyway?
Tougher sentences should be looked at, and not mamby pamby
jails if people go down they should remember why and punishment should be more severe in severe cases.
I don;t feel we have a right to take someones life, but a discussion on here is helpful to pull out peoples views
- Alan i agree with you so lets both get a doctors appointment as Howard
feels we need one. - Keith sadly i dont agree with you regarding your views on the dealth penalty. I heard that you are a pcso. So some of the cases you have and will have to
deal with who's saying you wont change your mind? - I certainly agree with tougher sentences but there are degrees of murder premeditated being the most serious. A person who
has been mentally or physically abused over a long period and then suddenly snaps cannot fall into the same category. Youth knife crime is possibly a diffcult one although the public demand justice would it be justice to jail a youth of
say seventeen for the rest of his life?
Justice does not serve itself by bowing to people, however justifiable, and adopting a more revengful approach, it must at all times be tempered with mercy and take into consideration all
aspects of a particular case.
Finally, I tend to rabbit on, you mention that prisons are namby pamby, this is simply inaccurate and whipped up by the media. People working in prisons are subject, or were, to the Official Secrets Act
so very little of what actually goes on is publicised. - The public perception of prisons being an easy option is indeed false. They are hard and dangerous places - some are more able to survive them than others, but
they are no walk in the park. - Beth
I'm afraid no matter what cases I may deal with as a PCSO won't change my mind on hanging.
I think tougher sentences, with real punishment, is the
answer, so when people know they are going to prison they are frightened to do so, thats not the case at the moment.
Killing people just makes you like them, and im afraid i need a lot more
convincing.
- Been to doctors he said there is no hope for me now seen to many things in life to change now he would not commit. as for PCSO, well I saw two looking at tax disc on mason-
du-road I thought they are surposed to surport other officers, seems to me that this is another wast of tax payers money they have no powers there just kids themselves, that man in maidstone is kiding us thinking we will see more
officers on the beat and that we will feel safe on the streets, if uniformed officers carnt deal with the the Probs out there how can we expect these people to do it.If they got rid of PCSO the money they save could put a propper bobby
on the Force. its all well and good this PCSO saying there needs to be tougher sentanceing He Carnt Arrest anyone for anti-social Behaviour so realy why is he there should get a proper job.Now I saw something a couple of days ago gang of
kids hanging around garage at lime kiln roundabout geting polish lorry drivers to buy drink for them sprits and beer then going to the beach to drink it was a copper any were to be seen NO. There is one patrol car for dover and deal
after 7pm but if there is a demo in town there is about 20 to 50 coppers every were and they are on overtime. - Alan please don't get me going on PCSOs I've always said
they are a total waste of money. - I tried the new Mexican "Amigoes" in the High Street on Thursday evening with some friends the atmosphere and service was wonderful. It
was a shame the same couldnt have been said for the food.
The starter was a seafood medley which at best was frozen fish with a fresh prawn put on top and over priced at £7:00, the portion size was small. Even the dreaded crab
stick was amongest what was termed as fresh fish.
Main course - chicken fahita again small portions and the wraps had been reheated so were hard for £12:95 not worth it.
Pudding was coconut ice cream which was £2.95 and it
was one scoop cut in half which was the final insult, its a shame as myself and friends are frequent vistors to many restaurants in Dover and we feel this is very poor value for your money, i would be intrested in any other comments from
other diners about this. - Hi
Tracey
I went to Amigo's at the end of September with friends and we really enjoyed our visit - food, service etc.
The portions were O.K. size-wise, but we were the only ones in there.
I had fajitas too - beef and
they were great, in fact too much, I couldn't finish it and I have a big appetite.
I think it is fair to say it was on the dear side, but we had expensive dishes, but there are starters from £3.90 and mains from £7.50 (I
think).
Roger - i see that the subject of pcso's has come up again.
i
am in favour of them, though i can appreciate other people may have found them of little help.
we had one originally that was very effective, out herself about, and knew many of us by name.
she gor promoted, great for her, bad
for us, as a new one has to learn about the area.
the second one has now been transferred to deal.
the whole point of the pcso system is getting to know ones patch.
this clearly is not going to happen, if they are
moved around. - Interesting stuff there about Amigos, I am looking forward to giving the place a go myself. Will be interesting to find
out.
But changing the subject a tad. What about this chaos about Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross. I believe these stars of minor talent, are getting blasted by the newspapers today all over the country. Blasted by TV, Radio, and
Internet, and more than 10,000 complaints have been registered with the BBC.
Probably many of these complainants havent even heard the lewd comments about Andrew Sachs' (Manuel in Fawlty Towers) grand daughter, but they are just
registering their disapproval of the mindless duo. These guys are paid far too much money, Jonathan Ross a laughable £18million pounds of YOUR money and this is how they behave. Cheap sexual nastiness at an old mans expense, saying awful
things about his grand daughter. Andrew Sachs is almost 80 years old now. Not very good and Ross and Brand dont look too sorry either. - iI'm
going to withdraw from the debate on PCSO's as I can see many posters are misunderstanding the role.
I wikll finish by saying the role was never created to be another policeperson and also was created to bring communities together, I
can only speak from where I work, the PCSO's are respected, work in the communities in total, attending youth clubs, age concern, cubs, guides, schools, meeting people in the street, and making people feel safer.
All I can say is
that where I am people appreciate the PCSO I won't comment on other areas as that would not be right.
IF ANYONE believes scrapping them will bring back the bobby on the beat they are living in cloud cuckoo land.
There is a
role for the police and one for the Pcso COMPLETELY different jobs.
Respect is what is all about, and I know people feel safer having that presense, it has\worked,
Although I have an interest in whether or not the job remains, I
also truly believe in the role of the PCSO LONG MAY THEY CONTINUE.
- Hi Roger its good to hear someone had a positve meal at Amigoes to say i was dissapointed was an
understament and that in itself is enough not to make me go back for a 2nd try. Dover has many good places to eat i just didnt think this was one of them. - Both Russell Brand
and Jonathan Ross should receive their comeuppance even if it means the sack. They may be good in they're own way but that does not mean they are above the law, they seem to think 'What's the problem?
Society is being
constantly dragged down to a lower level in this country and after hearing comments made by the general public in the street on TV last night, I'm a little worried. We have got to draw the line somewhere and I think this is it,
additional to this I am appalled the BBC let them go ahead as the show was pre-recorded. (maybe it's a case of the massive public following they have?) - I could not agree
more Barry. TV and the BBC in particular should be setting a good example but instead they seek out and reflect the lowest possible common denominator.
These two idiots should be sacked never to find a job on British TV and
Radio again. - So, Brand and Ross have been suspended. Why the delay one wonders?
They both seemed to revel in the furore, that
"singing telegram" apology by Brand was disgusting, it was just a further wind up. I don't like Woss, I can't see his appeal. As for Brand, he is just uncouth, unkempt and unwelcome.
What are they on I ask?
Terry - some sort of funny fag by the sound of it,.
- with regards to the Ross and Brand epsiode do you not think
that everyone is jumping on the band wagon. At the time of the programme being aired only 2 complaints were recieved by the station. Since it was mentioned in the Mail over a week later everyone now has an opinion.
Im of the
opinion it was wrong what they did but it should be the producers of the programme to be suspended not Brand and Ross, with the pair of them it is a generation thing, if your off a certain age they are not funny if younger they are.
- On Brand and Ross, I think it is past time that modern so-called humour grew out of the playground and hope this fuss serves as an example.
On PCSO's, (and this is a
shock) I fully agree with Keith and their role is much under appreciated. - terry
much as i agree with with your post, was your reference to a speech impediment
necessary?
not your style normally. - Tracey - those two well paid
broadcasters made an obscene phone call to an elder and still seem to think it was funny enough to justify broadcasting it to the nation in order to earn their huge paypackets. The producers and others involved also seemed to think it
hilarious enough for us all to share and snigger at. Is that really what we want to pay for? - From listening and watching people talk about the Brand/Ross incident, it seems that the "for's" and "against's" depend on their ages.
Most young people think
it is O.K. to make these lewd, disgraceful, insulting comments, using the "f" word when ever they feel like it.
Older people (or should that be more mature) think it is as I've described above and because I am now in that
special club, I also think it was completely out of order on every level.
I used to like Jonathan Ross's irreverent humour, sometimes a bit outrageous, but this was just so way over the top on the (lack of) decency.
The
biggest mistake was that the person who Okay'd it for broadcasting was only 25, so being younger, obviously thought, "what the "fxxx"
He should be sacked to for total lack of decency and
judgement.
Roger - Here Here Roger you hit the nail on the head.
GENERATION GAP is the key and the producers should be held accountable not the presenters. I agree both are overpaid for what they do but at the end of the day i find them both funny and enjoy watching them.
Life gone mad in the
perfect Britain where as usual everyone jumps on the band wagon. - Actually, I am quite cheered by the fact that so many people recognised the offence for what it was - unacceptable. And I
am not surprised younger people seem to think it ok to be offensive when they have the BBC saying its ok. - just spotted roger's comment that a 25 year old gave the ok for the show to be broadcast.
the age group that listens to radio 2 is a lot higher than
that.
furthermore, should there not be a few people checking things(including a couple of lawyers)? - The problem Howard lies in the fact that the programme was made not by the BBC but by a private company owned by Ross (whose own publicity refers to him as "Wossi" by the way, so my
previous comment was in order) and the 25 year old is employed by that company. He was hardly going to tell his own boss to shut up was he?
Terry - I
mentioned elswhere that Radio 2 were trying to attract a younger audience. WHY? Leave it alone. The younger people have R1, R1 extra and 6Music. I don't see the point.
Terry - i did not know that the BBC farmed out to contractors.
i thought that everything was done "in house".
so even more dosh is being made by mr ross.
this should be made clear to us licence payers. - On tv Howard you will see at the end of programmes something like "A Celador Production for BBC". The same applies to radio. In fact some of the best programmes are are
made outside. My favourite being Pier Productions in Brighton.
Terry - Well the US election result was announced at 4am with Barack Obama having quite an east win.In
Delaware Roger Calero managed to get 8 votes
out of a total electorate of 121,183.Must be the Dovor Party. - lol!! John very amusing..yes indeed there is a Dover in Delaware so maybe that chap belongs to
the american wing of Vic's ill fated DOVOR campaign. Gosh its going global, just like a flu epidemic...! - first
thing i did this morning was to turn on the teletext news.
first item was "obama is new president".
second item was "victor makes big speech".
what a let down when i read further and found it was just the new
president they were referring to. - love
it! - I like it sorry but not posting at this time I am working down at Bognor Rieis and not geting back till late.
Vic Matcham - Glenrothes bi election result main parties only
Lab 19,946
Snp
13,209
Con 1,381
Lib 947
rest including the Vic Matcham Caledovorian party
612
- Thanks for those figures John, youre a star! Impressive win for Labour there. This could be the first sign of an early spring shoot of recovery. The party has been
getting good media coverage lately, particularly through Gordon Brown's handling of the financial crises, and it may be filtering through at the real polls, the ones that matter. - Referring to the Ross/Brand fiasco. I
live and work in a third world country where such behaviour just doesn't happen. Here, Nigerians, and I dare say other Africans are the same, still show great respect for elders. They are also always polite to each other, and guests
in their country.
It is very refreshing and a pleasure to be here.
Ross and Brand should also have been sacked, but they would just sign even bigger contracts to work on other stations. Hence, mangement paralysis at the
Beeb. - Hi Sid - good to hear from you.
I agree with what you about about the Africans/Nigerians, especially those not tainted or spoilt by terrorism or politics.
There
is no (well very little) respect in this country (for people in general, property, even for the country) and we accept it with alacrity; no (National) standards to live by, only those of individuals and too many individuals don't have
any standards at all.
Talk about "eyes wide shut" we accept the gradual and sometimes not so gradual reduction, in integrity, ethics, honesty, courteousnes etc. etc.
Roger
- the dhb lads
should go ahead with the strike,it will bring realaty to the board of dricters. - I can see the
headlines now -
"Dover Port Blockaded"
"Calais Grinds To A Halt"
"French Government To Sue DHB For Traffic Chaos"
Let's face it's just daft enough to happen.
Terry - or better still french strike over english strikers dispute escalates across europe.
- could you have not given us a bit more notice gary?
will be a bit of a rush for us. - an important date for next years diary howard
- Has anyone found a dog in the past 24 hours? My friend has lost her
brown brindle female staff and is desperate to find her. She lives in the Tower Hamlets area. All the usual agencies have been contacted.
Any help or information greatly appreciate!
Thank you
Christine - I live in Tower hamlets so will take a look outside where I am, and also keep an eye out while on the school run later. Will let you know either way
if I see anything. Is the dog approachable???
Mandie - and the dogs name just in case I do see it about
- Have contacted Alison the Community Warden to let her know,I am also canvassing in De Burg/East St area this afternoon so will keep my eyes open
- Thank you so much for
all the offers of help and advice! The dog is called Tess.
Warm regards
Christine
My telephone number is 01304 226336 if there are any viewings of Tess - Yes she is approachable and a big softie! If Tess is found I will post a message on here but again, I
appreciate your kind offers. My friend's son loves his pets, and both him and his mother will be devastated if Tess is not found.
Christine - Sorry christine. No luck as yet from me, but will keep an eye out just in case.
- No sign were we were,Alison is off sick at the moment,but I am back around Dickson Road area tonight so will keep my eyes
peeled. - Thankyou JHG and Mandie - we really appreciate your
efforts.
Christine - Went all over Tower Hamlets tonight on my bike,no sign I'm
afraid. - That is really kind of you - thank you! You must be fit to go up and down all of those hills!
There is still no sign of Tess sadly.
Warmest
regards
Christine - Had reports of trouble in Tower Hamlets last night so I thought I would have a tour round,hard work going up the
hills but great coming down...2o mile speed limit and I kept to it. - trouble in tower hamlets john?
i always thought that was the sleepy and quiet part of
town. - It was the fireworks going off that caused Tess to go AWOL!
- ...and that wasn't the sparks coming from John's bike as he peddled up the hills!
- sorry Freudian slip there - it should have
been PEDALLED!!! - seen your posters around christine, hope that you get lucky with your dog.
my cat went missing for a few days a
couple of years ago, i was about to put posters up, then chatting to the builder who was working on the next house to me, he said that every time he went in there was "evidence" of a cat living there.
i investigated and found her
covered in plaster dust, clearly playing a game with me for not giving her much attention. - I would be interested to know who gave the Sun the
photo of the carnival girls. Did The Sun have permission from the carnival committee to use it? Did a committee member take it? Does Cllr Precious know more than he’s saying? If this conman gave grant money to a group, the council should
tell us which group this was, don’t forget that this is money paid by tax payers. - People seem to have misplaced their funny bones in Dover!! A fella with a fantasy had a bit of a time and a few people were mistaken.......it has
given us some space in the national press, an opportunity to capitalise on it and a bit of a giggle!!! Get a grip! Let's grab the opportunties and stop flopping about in the muck!!!! - I was on the march,and estimate about 500 people when it left Pencester,and even the union from France were there,it was well recieved in the Town as we walked along.Gwyn and Union Speakers were all very passionate,this is the
thin end of the wedge first 190 jobs the rest will follow,unless this is stopped.Some of the people there had been loyal staff for 20 25 and 30 years and it is not as if DHB has financial problems this is just a way to stop paying
pensions,and employ new staff who will do it for the minimum wage,do I want the safety of my next trip to France put into hands of people who are not professional,not bl**dy likely.
Labour Councillors were out in force to show they
back these loyal hardworking people,the only Tory I saw was Charlie E who tried to get in every photo,when he was told to stand with the Conservative Association after trying to get in on the Labours photo,he said they aren't here,we
knew that,so if the Tories really support the Port Workers,where were they? - nn Yes the Sun did have permission to use the photograph of the court from DCAL.
The
photograph belongs to DCAL and is for the association to use. - I have said this alot now the D.T.C. did not gave any group cash the funds came from himself, Please do
not be hard on him he was O.K. have ago at me if you like but not the D.T.C. or him just me I have already put my hands up about it all, The town council at that time and still are working for our town at this time all they done was to
gave me help and support I as I said at the time I thank them for that to. It was me and me alone .
I remain yours faithfully Vic Matcham - A bit of clarification there Vic.
Are
you saying that a conman came to Dover and then gave a £1000 of his own money to charities ? WHY ???????????? and then disappear ??
Hardly a conman then - or is there more to this than meets the eye ?
Roger - Roger i did not say he was a con man, yes he did gave £1000 to help a group out there is nothing wrong with that and it is not my place to name the group or
anyone who was with me on the night, and again it is not your place to put them or the council on the stand. - Thanks for that clarification Vic.
He obviously was a
conman, but a very unusual one - most conmen con you out of something, making you think he's someone else to get favours or whatever - money usually.
I'm perfectly entitled to ask questions, whatever they may be.
I accept
what you say Vic, but I've never heard of a conman who gives out his own money.
Roger - Good morning Roger,Yes you can aske any QUESTION you
like about this matter or any other .i hope your wife is feeling well lesley and myself wish her all the best like me you lucky to have a lovely wife who will stand by her man.
I remain yours faithfully Vic Matcham
Ps alot
of this story to come it will put a smile on all our faces I hope. - How lovely - it's almost old-fashioned to hear the phrase "stand by her man" without sarcasm nowadays.
It's an important quality in a woman......however out-dated it still matters!!!! - Bern, thank you for that and I try always to be on my best with the love in my life my wife,
with out her I would be lost.
vic Matcham - As Cllr Goodwin says, I did join the march and I am proud to support the jobs and prosperity of the people of Dover. These are
difficult times and we all need to be united. I do not agree with this outsourcing, or the privatisation of the port of Dover for the reasons I have previously set out. I have met directors of DHB and told them that clearly and
unequivocally. I haven't made a big fuss of it amid a fanfare of press releases - I've just got on and made the case directly and firmly.
It is indeed true, as Cllr Goodwin says, that Labour were not pleased to see me there, as
they did appear to want to have a kind of party political rally! Yet fair's fair, I do think he should be accurate when reporting my response to Mr Prosser's (somewhat ungracious) comments to me . . . what I actually said, as they
stood there behind that big fat Labour Party banner, was that I was not there to politicise the event. I was there to offer bipartisan support for the people whose jobs are threatened. That there are times when we should all join
together and stand firm with the community and put party politics to one side. That this was one of them.
You know, it's important to remember why we are involved in public life. For me, that is to serve the community, to work
to get the best for people and to deliver a fair share for Dover & Deal. As I say, these are difficult times and I wanted to be there for the port workers in a bipartisan spirit. Many port workers came up, shook my hand and told me how
pleased they were I was there for them. That the Dover Labour Party and the Trades Union leadership did not see things that way is a shame, yet says more about them than it does about me . . . I hope people will read about me and form
their own view - see www.charliefordover.blogspot.com - Charlie,I didn't say we weren't pleased to
see you,I am always pleased to see you,but we were surprised you seemed to be on your own with no political support,we did not want a party political rally,we are local councillors supporting our local people,the reason why the banner
was big was to get our message over,and there was a lot of us.
We agree we should all stand together but it was a little one sided wasn't it? All we wanted was a good turn out so we were pleased to see everyone and anyone who
supports the cause,and you are right it does say more about us than you,we Gwyn You and lots of Councillors were there Labour Councillors.and please read about Charlie as he is a good man,if you want to contact me,I am in the Town, in
the phonebook ,on here and the DDC website and at work.
- nice stuff chas, i fully agree that it is
a bipartisan issue.
not the time for party politics, can you confirm that your local party support your views? - Charlie, you made the effort and I am sure the DHB employees appreciate that. Labour and tory are never going to see eye to eye with everything, but for the sake
of this country they need to step out of the playground and start working together to improve this country for everyone, one and all, and any getting together on any issue, is a step in the right direction.
- TESS HAS RETURNED HOME!!!!!
Dear friends
Thank you so much for all the effort you have put in to finding my friend's dog. I am so pleased to report that she has
been reunited with her owners. Your kindness, hard work and care has really paid off and is so much appreciated. THANK YOU!!!
Christine
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - Oh Christine I am so pleased!!! Everyone must be so relieved.
So happy things have worked out well.
lv
Mand x - Wow! thats great news Christine. Very pleased for you.
- Pleased to hear that Christine.
- Of all
the threads, this result is the best! Nice one! - great to hear the dog is back.
what happened to her? - seems like our charlie is loathe to say what the views are of his local party.
- He probably wont know Howard as I suspect that it has not been
discussed. I certainly would not have had a discussion of it if I was Chairman and it is not a Party political issues on which the Association needs to form a view.
We operate in a very different way to Labour and are not
obsessed with forming a local Party view on matters and are quite relaxed for our candidates/MPs/Councilllors to take a stance based on his own concience on local matters.
Outsiders have a much exaggerated view of Party influence
over its representatives, certainly as far as the Conservatives are concerned.
Individual members I would expect would have a mix of feelings, some would support Charlie and the DHB employees, others like me would feel
differently. That is fine in my book, we are the Party of the individual after all and that is how it should be. - Howard,
I am clear
that privatisation of the port would risk our national security so I don't agree with it. This is a case I've successfully made to the Conservative Parliamentary Transport team. The national policy position of the Conservative Party is
therefore not to privatise the Port of Dover.
Everyone in the local Conservative Party and the community as a whole has their own view on where the balance should be struck. Those who favour privatisation in general understand
where I stand and the reasons for it. No-one from any part of the community has yet said they don't agree with my position. So I hope you will accept that I can answer a direct question directly and that I'm not all smarm !!
As
for the oursourcing, I am concerned that the Ministry of Transport has been consulted about this and has raised no objection. The Government appoints all the directors at DHB, so they have a lot of scope to put pressure on. I don't
understand why the Government has not intervened. I'd be interested to know what people make of that.
Charlie
www.charliefordover.blogspot.com - Charlie's comments are most welcome and constructive. The Port of Dover is such a major
player in this area and by allowing the outsourcing of these jobs it can only lead to further work being carried out by outside agencies.There is already talk of the Security Staff being outsourced.This is the thin end of the
wedge. - thanks for reply charlie, i can see that
point of view.
who said you were full of "smarm" though??
excluding me and a few others, of course. - Charlie
the government wont intervene as the strike so far has been rather small beer. I dont say that in any insulting way, as I am behind the efforts of the strikers, but in the terms of it not being very effective so far. It has indeed as a
story made the local TV stations but if the strikers did achieve widespread stoppage, then it would reach the national newspapers, the national TV stations etc etc, and then we would see some action. As we all know very often government
policy and action is driven by those issues with the loudest headlines. - PaulB - Some people have claimed that the Board have not acted correctly and as it is a Government
appointed Board, there is an obligation falling on the Government when action such as this threatens a strategically important transport hub.
That said I am not sure that the Board have acted incorrectly and I say that as someone
who is not a great admirer of this nationalised enterprise.
I was impressed by the letter in today's Dover Express by Bob Goldfield.
I was involved in privatisations/outsourcing myself in the 1980's and I have to say I
am surprised that DHB have only now acted to change what are outdated business practices. I fully understand 'the business case' and it would be hypocritical for me to say that DHB are wrong to do something that I consider to be
right.
I realise that this may not be a popular stand to take in Dover but that does not make it wrong.
My fear is that a strike will do serious damage to 'wider' Dover, fortunately as DHB have managed to keep traffic
moving that fear may not materialise.
I also believe that those who almost always lose out most in these situations are those who actually go on strike.
Often politicians and Union officials exploit peoples natural fears
and use them for their own ends. I am not saying that this is definately the case right now but it might well be.
The best the strikers can hope for is to delay the inevitable.
In respect of their pension scheme, it is
of a type that has had its day, they are no longer supportable. Most people do not have the benefits that these offer and indeed are, through their taxes, paying more for public sector superannuation schemes than they are paying into
their own pensions. This cannot continue.
Times are getting harder for all of us. Small businesses are under the greatest pressure with their employees having to make sacrifices and often losing their jobs. So what may be a high
level of public support now for the strikers is likely to melt away if this dispute continues as the recession bites ever harder. Those who themselves cannot afford to invest in their own pensions, who are having to take pay cuts or
work longer hours, will lose sympathy for the strikers who they will see as trying to defend a relatively priviledged position.
Better for those involved in this strike to face the facts before they do themselves too much
damage. - barryw,i have read bob goldfields derogertry letter in todays dover express and found it blatently flawed,in one paragrafe he says its not a trust
which it clearly is.it has been ever since it was set up 400 years ago.the only person in my view who is scare mongering here is bob goldfield. - I think I may be coming
round to 'outsourcing' in certain areas. Perhaps there is no real bind to honour contracts of any kind that may seem outdated. Which made me think that perhaps we should put the monarchy up for tender. I'm not against the monarchy
at all and think that they all seem quite a nice people, but I feel that now in an age of streamlining and credit crunch that we can perhaps employ individuals that offer better value for money. I appreciate the revenue they bring in to
the country and I'm sure there are others suitable for the position (perhaps even more so!). They could be chosen by the public, because we are a democracy...aren't we? - food for
thought there DT.
assuming that we get shot of the present incumbents, who would fill the void?
let us start with the duke of edinburgh(my favourite), gaffe prone, speaks his mind, gives us all a laugh!!
step forward vic
matcham.
let us hear from other posters as to replacements.
i am trying to think what the best position would be for posh barry.
of course, the biggest question is who would be queen? - howard how would you look in drag.[corgi]costume that is.
- paulb are those pics of bob g left over from
hallowean or what. - God knows what all the three politicos are doing getting involved in this dispute. It has absolutely nothing to do with them and they should stick to
doing something they bleat on about endlessly like saving the planet from Man-made climate change and stupid stuff like that.
It's an industrial dispute and is really beyond their remit. To those who might disagree with me ask
yourself why they rarely get involved in other labour disputes. This is merely a chance for each and every one of them to use the dispute as a political football and they should leave the field now. Oh and of course let's not forget
what a fantastic photo opportunity they have had out of it.
I suggest they stick to playing making decisions in London where the Parish council sits and rubber stamps edicts from our European masters and make the best use of the
subsidised bar. - S...The Labour Party was created by the Trade Unions and we will always support local workers struggling to protect thier jobs and pensions,and there could be
nothing more political than opposing the privatation of services in a port which the former Conservative Goverment tried hard to privatise in whole in 1996/7 and the local Conservative Party promised to sell off to the highest bidder had
they got elected in 2005.
It is not a case of 190 workers,it will mean eventually all the workers at DHB and then where does it stop.
I work in the travel industry and it is only the strength of the Union that stops the management
running riot against workers rights,jobs and pension rights - having looked at the pics of mr goldfield again, i must ask paul the question, who was inserting the red hot poker
into him when the snaps were taken? - Just a note about the Bob Goldfield pictures... I always try to show people in a good light in the pictures where possible. The pictures above are taken off the TV, both
channels, and that's exactly how Bob looked on both occcasions. No manipulation from me. Thats why I say in the copy above that he isnt one of life's natural TV performers. He does look to be in that predicament as mentioned by Howard
below. - A good
face for radio! - even better for a hammer horrer film.lol.
- Looks like a
thyroid problem to me, that or it's Swartzenegger after he tried to breathe on Mars. - he said the other night on the box, that his door was always
open.
all credit to him.
he omitted to say that he would be hiding behind the door with a very sharp object and an insane giggle.
believe me, i have seen the film. - I agree Howard, he has the look of Jack Nicholas from 'The Shining', when he smashed the door down with an axe and came out with the immortal line ' Hello Johnny!' -
Spooky or what! - This letter
simply underlines the lack of skill and intelligence that rests in Bob Goldthingy. Clearly the companies are jiggling for cost reductions etc etc, but if BG had any skill he would surely have planned ahead and forseen this? Managers also
need charm............. - bern he has the charm of a rattle snake
- Well BarryW I think B G has a STRIKING
resemblance to Ian Macgregor myself.
You showed concerns about Dover and small business’s being affected by DHB’s outsourcing, what about the effects it will have on the 3 ferry companies? They too have many employees from Dover.
- I find it rather disturbing that we have in the past had a Town Councillor who cannot
differentiate between a retired fireman and an ageing pop/rock star.
Perhaps he sould have gone to Specsavers!
However,my wife,Councillor Pamela Brivio, assures me that she can definitely tell the difference between myself and
Robert de Niro, even though I have disguised myself and offered to turn on the Christmas lights.
I hope that the electorate will remember this fiasco when Mr.Matcham puts himself forward for a responsible position in this town in
the future. - Certainly will!!! I am always drawn to people who can make me laugh!! I tend to avoid those without a sense of humour, bad for the health!
- I would recognise you anywhere David,nothing like Robert de Niro,you know my name for you.
- Strikes me that this vic
is a loose cannon, and sadly if people think what he did is a good thing for your town then may I suggest you start asking around.I am sure that the town council have had to pull people away from their normal job within the council to
deal with the barrage of press enquiries etc, which is not good, and I am also ceratin that when Vic got this imposter to attend the carnival that extra security or stewards had to be drafted in, which would have been a nightmare for the
organisers. How is that funny?? It created more work for people who did'nt need any extra stress. - For Gods Sake! Why do people seem to want to hold on to the bad
stuff?! Stuff happens, stuff is over, stuff can be turned around and made good. Ths whole point of life is to grab stuff and create opportunities from it. It can be done!!!! Smile, people, and sieze the
day! - David B, A name from the past. Nice to know that you are still there and active ( and Pam ) Remember Romania ?
Andy Chandler. - it appears that a new batch of vic bashers have arrived on the scene.
it is beginning to look orchestrated, i suppose it must be fun to some to kick someone when they are
down. - howard who is bashing vic.
- max
just go back 2 or 3 posts and you will see 2 new
posters taking a pop at victor.
if they have posted on here before, i apologise, just seems a coincidence they suddenly appear/reappear and both adopt the same personal line of attack. - ok seen it now.
- All I am saying is that some people on here seem to find the whole thing hilarious, but just talking to friends of mine
here in Folkestone, they all say pretty much the same thing in that Mr matcham has made a laughing stock out of Dover. If he was looking for publicity for the town then he went about it all the wrong way. You have some great things in
Dover DODS,Blackfish,Carnival,Regatta,plus roman painted house,castle etc. All of which generate good publicity and make people speak in a positive way about Dover. Not laughing at
it. - I guess it is better to laugh than cry......even bad stuff can create opportunities to improve. Better that than harp on...and on....and on... about the negative.
Take the better choice and see the bright side - it works. And good stuff drops out of it.! - I know from first hand experiance a lot of corperate bullying has been undertaken by Mr Goldfield and his associates over the last couple of days to break this industrial
action by the least millitant work force i have known.Threats and intimidation have been rife.He has manage to radicalise an insitution that used to be known as the Tory party by the sea.I also know none of the work force wanted to take
this course of stand up to action but there was no alternative,some times you have to stand up to a bully.This is not about pay or kudos there is a fundemental imorallity about this whole affair.This MAY BE the best business practice of
the future,however at the moment all we want is to be listened to about our concerns. - Have to say a very good letter from Gwyn sums up a lot of feeling around at the moment
lets hope bob goldfield takes note but I'm sure he has no intention of doing so, so I gess you could say he does not wish to work with the people of this Town. - lianne
it is good to know that the people of folkestone are so concerned about the image of dover.
i have to say that folkestone rarely gets a mention here in dover, we believe it is doing ok and can handle it's
own problems. - i loved the style of gwyn's letter.
starts off: dear bob, ends kind regards, yours
sincerely!!
the stuff in between gives the lie to those words.
mind you, i have to say that i agree totally with the contents of the letter.
he spoke for dover there. - J makes a very good post there and a very good point...these are the "least militant workforce anywhere" so it is a poor reflection on management that these guys were
driven to the desperation of strike action. This does not reflect well on the DHB management skills, to catapult from ordinary everyday good practice, with people going about their jobs in fine fettle, to chaos misery and unpopularity.
Very 1970's. - does anyone know the results of todays meeting with DHB?
the strike goes ahead on
thursday otherwise, this time the people with striped shirts and berets will support it. - havent herd a thing howard.
- just looked at the bbc news pages and it looks like its going ahead.
- Yes the Strike is
scheduled to start Thursday morning from 7am and this time it will run for 3 days. So it looks to all that the DHB have remained entrenched in their position. Because of the three day duration this time travellers should be prepared for
delay. - What a lovely photo of the 'gang' at Roger's coffee morning. Roger always looks happy and it's great to see Jean looking so well.
- I do'nt believe it, are my eyes decieving me, Nigel with a cup in hand and not a glass of alcoholic nectar, no, no, Nigel, you have ruined your reputation
Sheila - A Big Thank You to Roger and Jean for their warm hospitality, we all had a lovely time and enjoyed the coffee and biscuits. Ah! Sheila, I think I might have spotted a hip flask
in Nigel's back pocket, lol!, a drop of the warming nectar might have been in his coffee, so his reputation is still intact.
As for the raffle prizes it's just irish luck, PaulB you must have had an irish luck bypass in your
past loife, now didn't ya kiss the Blarney Stone at all, at all, at all lol! - Thanks Paul for putting the photo and comments up and Colette, Jan and Sheila for their comments (so far).
It was a
real pleasure holding the coffee morning and having some great people come along and enjoy different conversations.
We'll have to do it again - with alcohol !!
Roger
- Roger and Jean thank you for the warm welcome to your coffee morning, a most enjoyable time was had to see new and 'old' faces, looking forward to opening
the Advent calendar with a glass of wine from Dec 1st. lol! - Yes thanks Roger and jean was a good cup of coffee and was interesting to talk to some of your guests socially.
- CAN ANYONE TELL ME HOW I CAN GET AN ACCOUNT ON HERE THOUGHT U WOULD BE ABLE TO DO IT FROM THE WEBSITE
- MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE
- Good morning all and thanks for the Email Paul.
Indeed another very sad day for Dover. Over the years we have had redundancies
in port related employment as demand and working practices have changed. From the Townsend strike many years ago now, through the mergers of Seaspeed & Hoverlloyd and P&O & Stena Line, the eventual demise of Hoverspeed and the numerous
waves of job losses in the ferry industry we have had our fair share in the town over recent years.
Our feelings must go out to our friends from Speedferries at not only the run up to Christmas but in the present financial climate
and I'm sure we all wish them well in the future. Having been through redundancy twice, once compulsary and once violuntary, wasn't going through that again, I can appreciate how many in Dover are feeling - not easy but a need to keep
all options open, contact all your friends as someone may know a job or some way to find a temporary income.
These are difficult times all round and we only need to see the media this morning to hear about Woolworths and MFI with
no doubt some more High Street shocks to come - I have heard some rumours and my heart goes out to all who may be wondering what is going to happen in 2009. - thankyou
for those kind words nigel. - Obviously the jobs at eastern docks will not be available until at least February 09 if there are any. The current staff should hopefully be
given first choice from the new contractors even if only on a temporary/semi-permanent contract. - Well said Nigel.
Hard times indeed; lets, hope that LD does indeed
start up as soon as possible.
There's a lot of good people in Dover and they can't afford to be out of a job at any time of the year, but leading up to Christmas, it's always
worse
Roger - COURT'S FOLLY ON MERIDIAN TONIGHT
Hey guys,
Did you see the interesting footage on Meridian tonight, tonight of
the Courts Folly behind Snargate Street on the Western Heights? I never knew there were all those tunnels underneath it but I have heard through the forums and seen videos on the folly.
The tunnels I have never however seen
before and found them a fascinating part of Dover's history as I don't think they have been spoken about on any medium I have seen. I have however once visited the fascinating vaults of tunnels behind Ardro (?) Hoses in Snargate Street
which extend back several hundred metres so was intrigued to see those that are behind Bluebirds.
I think it is a shame however Mark Frost from Dover Museum stated he believes the folly could fall into wreck and ruin. I know it is
hard to get to but if the landowner could be found and permission sought could funding be applied for so it could be restored to its former glory? I was wondering if the Western Heights Preservation Society could be consulted on this as
I believe it is within that area or other local groups so money could be raised and grants applied for so it could be restored, the ground made safe and it could be an asset to Dover's history and heritage/tourism prospects.
Its
also a great shame it cannot be seen from Snargate street like it once was from the drawing shown on the programme.
Whats your views on this? Could it be saved?
The Meridian tonight presenter did mention perhaps a project
to save Courts Folly could apply for People's Millions funding from them next year. Whats your view? And could a local group be set up to protect and restore it or another local/several local groups come together for this aim of
restoring this 200 year old piece of Dover's history?
- WELL THANKS FOR IGNORING ME EVERYONE
- that folly i would like to see it made safe and opend up to the public on a regular baseis.good mornig dover star.
- The folly is in private ownership, and
I understand they didn't know that there was to be a television article on it. The private owners (who are thoroughly nice friendly people) have unfortunately had a lot of problems with unwanted visitors, leaving beer cans, graffitti,
and worse. I do hope that this won't begin again now.
The owners have, I'm told, been in touch with a couple of people about the folly.
- hallo maggie dear how are you.
- It's good to see some Good News from Dover, congratulations to Madeline & Suzanne and all at
CMS. - It was a Great Evening with wine flowing, food and music surrounded by glamourous women all in good spirits, What more would a man want?
Congrats to Suzanne,
Madeline and all the team at CMS, (20 years! they must have joined from the YTS Scheme) - Congratulations indeed to Madeline and Suzanne. Two lovely Ladies.
Very
pleased to hear that they are doing very well and pleased the party went well too.
Onwards and upwards as they say.
Roger - Well done
to you all - you deserve it!
X
D - Yes indeed, a truly great friday evening at
CMS's 20year in business celebration party. A huge thank you to Madeleine, Suzanne and the girls for a splendid night. Congratulations! - Well done
ladies keep it up nice to see us women succeed in business when times are so competitive. - Thanks for all your congratulations on CMS reaching 20 years we had a wonderful
evening and it was so nice so many friends and business associates make the effort to come along and celebrate with us. From all the emails we have received since it appears that everyone had a fab evening. The last revellors were
thrown out at midnight but continued to party in Funky Monkey. no not Sue and Madeline feet were hurting and just wanted to flop into bed thats what happens after 20 years! - Yet another reason not to go to Church or vote for any of the three mainstream political
parties when the fall for the Man-made global warming myth and then have the temerity to advertise their folly.
Not only will this madness bankrupt Our country but leave many people with even less money to pay for increased bills in
order to fund the percieved threat posed by supposed climate catastrophe. Our poor children and grandchildren will never forgive us. - They will never forgive us if we do nothing.
- John I think we have to err on the side of caution. Nobody knows for sure the extent of the global warming phenomenon but it cant hurt to take some steps. Clearly the ice caps
are melting so something is afoot, and the consequences could be grave.
I think we are in danger sometimes though of going overly green. Sometimes political parties see it as a sure fire vote winner and clamber onto the nearest
passing green bandwagon...any oul bandwagon will do as long as its flying the green credential flag.
Personally I dont agree with green taxes because in my view they will generally make little difference but penalise the
beleagured masses with yet another tax. - This is what David Bellamy has to say about Global Warming
Am I worried about carbon induced global warming? The answer is no and
yes. No because there has been no sign of global warming in New Zealand since 1955, this year snow has fallen in Portugal for the first time in 52 years and 3 US states are united by the fact that they have recorded their lowest
temperatures ever. Yes because it has become a political football that has lost its foundations in real science.
What especially worries me is that if anyone dares to question the dogma of the global warming doomsters who
repeatedly tell us that C not only stands for carbon but for climate catastrophe, we are immediately vilified as heretics or worse as deniers. I am quite happy to be branded a heretic because throughout history heretics have stood up
against dogma based on bigotry.
I don’t like being called a denier because deniers don’t believe in facts. There are no facts linking the concentration of atmospheric carbon dioxide with imminent catastrophic global warming there
are only predictions based on complex computer models.
Robust science is carried out in a robust way through reasoned argument based on well researched data and although it may dent the ego of the loser it does not smear the name
of science.
I offer two simple data sets that are already in the public domain.
The most reliable global, regional and local temperature records from around the world display no distinguishable trend up or down over the
past century
The last peak temperatures were around 1940 and 1998, with troughs of low temperature around 1910 and 1970.
The second dip caused pop science and the media to cry wolf about a catastrophic ice age just around the
corner. Our end was nigh! As soon as the temperatures took an upward turn in the 1980’s the scaremongers changed their tune switching their dogma to imminent catastrophic scenarios of global warming all based on computer models some that
were proved to be as bent as the hockey stick which no longer features in IPCC’s armoury.
I used to discuss climate change with my undergraduates and point out that there was much good scientific evidence that the latest of a
string of ice ages had affected the climate and sea levels around the world. Thank goodness it began to come to an end a mere 18,000 to 20,000 years ago The Romans grew grapes in York and during the world wide medieval warm period when
civilization blossomed across the world, Nordic settlers farmed lowland Greenland (hence its name) and then got wiped out by the Little Ice Age that only started to wane around 1850).
Back to the data, how can a sixty-year cycle
of changing temperature give any credibility to claims that carbon dioxide is causing an inexorable march towards a climate Armageddon.
The concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has risen throughout this time frame,
yet the temperature has gone up and down in a cyclical manner. How can this be explained unless there are other factors in control overriding the effect of this greenhouse gas? There are of course many to be found in peer reviewed
literature, solar cycles, cosmic ray cloud control and those little rascals El Ninos and La Ninas all of which are played down or even ignored by the global warming brigade. As are the positive aspects of carbon dioxide in the growth of
plants.
Add to that the fact that since 1998 the world’s average temperature has shown a tendency to fall not rise. This fact the warmers play down by arguing that you need a 10 year period, or better still a 30 year period to
register a convincing change. Well 2008 is just around the corner and sadly another 20 years on the next natural cycle will have done its best or worse vindicating carbon dioxide as the villain of the piece.
To date it has cost
the world around $ US 50 billion to spread global warming doom and gloom. However now thanks to questions asked by we the sceptics The New Zealand National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research’s Dr Jim Renwick has spilt the beans
that "Climate prediction is hard, half of the variability in the climate system is not predictable, so we don't expect to do terrifically well." Later on New Zealand radio, Dr Renwick said: " The weather is not predictable beyond a
week or two." The spin of a coin starts a rugby match the spin on 50 million greenbacks surely deserves an unbiased referee.
New Zealand leads the world in the eradication of feral plants and animals making restoration of the
natural ecosystems that kept the biosphere in balance long before the IPCC was invented. Habitat destruction and the loss of biodiversity is one of the greatest threats to climate and landscape stability.
David Bellamy
June
2007
- interesting post marek, i will have to read through it a few times to take everything in.
i am becoming increasingly sceptical to human involvement in
the present climate change.
i did not know that bit about new zealand!!
paul has said in an earlier post that he suspects that green taxes are just a way of fleecing the public.
the first time i heard the phrase "green
tax" was when kenneth clarke was chancellor of the exchequer and he used his budget to hammer motorists.
clever stuff from an astute politician, no-one could argue as all things green were becoming the in thing. - Well said Marek. David Bellamy has recently told us how He was essentially ostracised by the BBC, the Mouthpiece of global warming hysteria, after he expressed his views on
the subject and even dared to speak out on no less than Blue Peter about wind farms and how pointless they are. Ironically the one in the picture above with the beard and glasses is fully in favour of ruining the vista at Langdon by
agreeing to the installation of these costly and unsightly eyesores. Mind you I suspect any photo opportunity is worth five seconds on his time.
Did you know the actual content of carbon dioxide in our atmosphere? Not many people do.
I'll let you in on a little know fact.
As it stands C02 comprises of 0.0035% of atmospheric gases. Of that most of that C02 is natural and not man made (ie the burning of fossil fuels etc.)
Most of the carbon dioxide occurs
naturally so only a tiny proportion is caused by us.
The total United Kingdom carbon dioxide output from the burning of fossil fuels from burning fossil fuels and driving our cars etc. adds up to a grand total of a mere 2% of
Worldwide fossil fuel output, the majority emmanating from Countries such as the United States and China.
But We, or at least those who govern us, have just passed a law which essentially is there to "fight climate change". If it
were not so serious it would be laughable and only appear in a Monty Python sketch. This bill will seriously affect this Countys ablility to compete economically with the rest of the World in the future. Even Italy and Poland are having
severe reservations on similar laws currently being negotiated in Europe after realising what damage it would do.
Ironically Vaclav Klaus, the Czech leader, who is set to become the next rotating President of the EU sees sense and
will (hopefully) take no prisoners in this regard and hopes to expose the futility of the arguments put foward by the ecoloons.
I personally can't wait. Use your favourite search engine to learn more about him, after all He's the
only hope we have and the last line of defence before the battle for hearts and minds is won in this debate. - I seem to recall having a rather heated discussion with the one on
the right at an event in the town !! - animation can be over-rated...........
- Thanks for that Marek - how refreshing,
it was good to read that.
The last ice-age/global warming separated us from mainland Europe, so it can't all be bad - it was all that long ago either in the scheme of things.
From what DB was saying, it has more to do with
cutting down vast swathes of forests around the globe, than anything else - trees are good for us and the atmosphere, as they breathe in carbon dioxide and breathe out oxygen.
I've always thought that people should be encouraged
to be more green, but by giving tax concession carrots, rather than beating us all with a massive tax stick until we do. It's just the wrong way to go about
it.
Roger - Tut!Tut! Howard. I couldnt run with that last one....!
- A very nice photo there PaulB of 'The Girls' and a very pleasant time was had at the launch of Dover Life. Many Thanks to all at DTC
and the best of luck with the magazine for the future. - It gets increasingly depressing reading yet more excuses for doing nothing. The desperation to find excuses for global warming that would enable people to ignore it
and certain industries to continue unchecked is almost suicidal.
Carbon Dioxide emissions are only a part of the problem. Ozone depletion, caused by manufactured gases, aircraft engines and many other factors, also plays a large
part. Warming at the poles causing ice melt also forces temperatures down by altering oceanic currents and answering the simplistic argument that it can't be happening because its cold. It is also the drive to keep on doing what we
are doing that is the greatest threat to biodiversity, itself a huge threat to life on this planet and as stressed by David Bellamy in the quoted piece.
On wind power, radiation is a proven health hazard, burning fossil fuels is a
proven health hazard so the choice is a graceful wind turbine or coughing your lungs up from polluted by products of out-moded means of power generation. Excuses are easy, doing something takes imagination and guts. - Chris, I'm not being rude but what you say is straight from the script of Al Gores' film "An inconvienent truth" which has failed to stand up to scrutiny and in fact
was found not to do so in a court of law.
Every generation must have its bogey men and in this case it's catastropic climate change. Going back over history the bogey man was represented by other equally scary scenarios if We
didn't change our ways. Ironically one of the more recent in the 1970's was once again climate change only "experts" were convinced that We were all going to freeze.
As for the dangers posed by radiation from nuclear power
stations, well looking at the statistics you will find that deaths caused by leaks are much, much smaller than those found in any other method of energy production over the centuries. Mention nuclear and ones natural reaction is that of
fear following fear mongering films such as "The china syndrome".
I don't get my science from Hollywood but it appears that many people do and it's impossible to get a balanced view of the pros and cons on any significant subject
by relying on films. Note this goes for news outlets such as the BBC as well as their agenda is to push the debate in one direction - that of being a mere mouthpiece for the alarmist camp.
Finally, as for as you put it "graceful wind
turbines" I take it you won't be opposing the proposed eyesore at Langdon.
I suggest you spend the odd few minutes at Honeywood towers checking out the static state of the windmill there. Most of the day it refuses to turn through
lack of wind and when there is too much wind it also remains still. - Not rude John (a tad patronising but I will let that go). As I have never seen that film I can only assume
that those were the points that were still found to be valid. The court case you refer to was to determine the rights of pupils to hear both sides of an argument, in this case yours and the correct one. I am afraid that I cannot cite
all the various sources for my statements as I have been following the various arguments since the late sixties and Ecologist magazines 'Blueprint for Survival' special issue. Details on the melting of the polar ice came from The
Sunday Times (at least most recently), I would have to ask Stewart Dimmock (who took the Gore video to court) if he found out where Gore's information came from. It must have come up in the trial during which only a number of points
were found to be 'not completely accurate' or 'exagerated', a far cry from proving the whole argument wrong. - Chris, for your information I've pasted some of
the inconsistencies pur forward in the film as determined by the court judgement. Importantly note that they represent only a sample of the facts that were deemed to be inaccurate meaning that there were more but the Judge only
requested, as I say, a sample.
The film claims that melting snows on Mount Kilimanjaro evidence global warming. The Government’s expert was forced to concede that this is not correct.
The film suggests that evidence from ice
cores proves that rising CO2 causes temperature increases over 650,000 years. The Court found that the film was misleading: over that period the rises in CO2 lagged behind the temperature rises by 800-2000 years.
The film uses
emotive images of Hurricane Katrina and suggests that this has been caused by global warming. The Government’s expert had to accept that it was “not possible” to attribute one-off events to global warming.
The film shows the drying
up of Lake Chad and claims that this was caused by global warming. The Government’s expert had to accept that this was not the case.
The film claims that a study showed that polar bears had drowned due to disappearing arctic ice.
It turned out that Mr Gore had misread the study: in fact four polar bears drowned and this was because of a particularly violent storm.
The film threatens that global warming could stop the Gulf Stream throwing Europe into an ice
age: the Claimant’s evidence was that this was a scientific impossibility.
The film blames global warming for species losses including coral reef bleaching. The Government could not find any evidence to support this claim.
The
film suggests that sea levels could rise by 7m causing the displacement of millions of people. In fact the evidence is that sea levels are expected to rise by about 40cm over the next hundred years and that there is no such threat of
massive migration.
The film claims that rising sea levels has caused the evacuation of certain Pacific islands to New Zealand. The Government are unable to substantiate this and the Court observed that this appears to be a false
claim.
- Lanuch yesterday up for viewing today Wow thats service goes to show Dovers online magazine is right there on the ball.
thanks you guys - John. You are obviously very obsessed with that film, however i would suggest that you broaden your reading or viewing as you clearly watch more of that type of film than I
do. I do not recall which paper it was in (possibly the Sunday Times again as its all I get time for at the weekend) but I did read that at least three of the courts 'findings' had been overturned by later studies. Hurricane Katrina,
impossible to prove one way or the other, hardly conclusive. Polar Bears drowning, maybe not but their migratary habits have been disrupted by melting ice, ask the Churchill, Alaska tourist board. Sea level rises have been in dispute
for years and melting sea ice would make very little difference, because of displacement, the real problem would be when large glaciers and the Antarctic ice begins melting, which it is. Glacial retreat is a verifiable fact.
From
what I have read about it, the Gore film does seem to have gone in for scare mongering to make its point and we all know that (especially in a court-room) 'experts' can be brought in (or maybe bought in) to prove almost anything. I
wait for the results not based on films or studies financed by the usual power companies. - Lol. Chris, I really am not obsessed with the film "An inconvienent
truth" but merely used it in pointing out that this particular production stands as the clarion call for millions of warmists Worldwide.
I'd be happy not to refer to what amounts to as a glorified powerpoint lecture and discuss any
other aspect of the subject that anyone may care to throw into the ring.
My original point was to talk about the ludicrous picture of our esteemed representative with same rather aged clergymen holding a piece of paper (I have in my
hand a piece of paper rings some very ironic bells for me) which they purport will do something to "Save the Planet".
Goodness me don't they realise that a tree had to die in order to produce the document they stand proudly and
erectly behind?
There is NO evidence of Man made climate change. None. Ziltch.
We, who live in the Dover area, will be made to live with the sight of five monstrous testaments to Mankinds folly if and when they are built at
Langdon.
I urge all to oppose this planning application. A meeting will be held at Honeywood Palace in early Janurary (I don't have the specific date) and it is beholden on us all to stop it in its tracks.
Not only will it destroy
a beautiful view but remember that through subsidies dreamt up by those with more power and influence then We together as a town can ever have We will be paying for it through increased energy bills.
Think about it.
Your'll all
be paying forever for it and for more power, green power?
Find out how efficient Wind turbines are and you will be truly amazed. - OK. Bored now.
- uh-huh........it's a lose-lose here! Step slowly away from the conversation Chris, or it will go off in your face!!!!
- windfarms,a naugty pugalist,a so so council, shops closing,sounds like a reworking of war and peace with bits of tale of two citys and the colditz story all in one.
- Still looking for that elusive funny bone Bern?
- Back to the launch of Dover Life on Thursday.
Hopefully, many
of you will have been given a copy ? if not you can get one from Dover Town Council offices.
For those who've not seen it, it's a glossy A4, 48 page, full colour, quality magazine, with articles and advertisements from round the
area.
My only question about it, is, who is its target market ? - visitors to Dover ? residents ? businesses ? or all of them.
Whoever distributes it should be taking it to all of the hotels and guest houses here, as
well as the tourist attractions and VIC's.
A good magazine, I wish it much success, but that will only be proved if the advertisers, who afterall pay for it, receive business from it and so
re-advertise in later
issues.
Roger - Perhaps churches and youth groups, nurseries, hospitals (while we have them), GPs surgeries, dentists etc could also be
targetted? There is quite a bit if business to be gained from them. - D.C.A.L will be distributing the magazine on New years Day at the London Parade.
An event with approx
5 million spectators on the streets alone - Hi all, Miss Dover and her princesses, and myself will all be taking part in this years BOXING DAY DIP.
Because we
are all worried we wouldn't be brave enough to undertake it we have decided to use the chance to try and help raise money towards the 2009 carnival, and for a charity very dear to Miss Dover's heart. Crohns disease research. Loren
(Miss Dover) is 16 and sadly lost her mum to the illness 6 years ago. I am told that her mother was one of the first people ever to die because of the illness. I am also told by Loren that a major breakthrough with the illness gets
nearer by the day.
I am asking anyone who would like to sponsor us for this event to let me know. The money raised will help make a difference to others.
Many thanks mandie x
- Well done Mandie - braver than I am.
I'll sponsor you for a fiver - just let me know when yiou need
it.
Roger - Yes like the pass 3or for years I will be going in the water on boxing day.
- I hope you will let me out of the water after the dip.
- best of luck to all who brave the waters on boxing
day.
remind us all a few days before though with the time and exact location.
last year victor notified us either late on christmas eve or christmas day.
no-one logged on until after the event. - As you know for the last few years I have been doing the dip
name one and help get the funding it for it then that is OK with me and I will also add Twenty pounds to it after the dip>
Please do not think I am doing it because of what was in the newspapers that would not be right>
I will be
doing the same on the Doverlocals< I am geting on in years now so this could be the last time>
I remain yours faithfully Vic Matcham> - HELP
PAULB
WOTS ME
PASSWORD IM BACK BUT CANT REMEMBER IT TEXT IT THRU TO ME PLEASE - Vic, Please read my posting 4 postings down regarding Miss Dover and the girls taking part in the dip. Many
thanks Mandie - O.K. Mandie £20 pounds I will gave it to you after the dip as you have not done it before you can hold my hand and we will go in together, I am hoping
to be the last one out but we will have to wait and see and how cold it is, must say last two years it has been ok.
I remain yours faithfully Vic Matcham - Hello
Keef me oul china....
have texted your password now so hope you get it alright. Any problems let me know. Glad you found a shillin' for the meter!!lol - It
looks as though you had a great time there, he says slighty jealous. - Yes, an excellent way to spend a Sunday afternoon and to get into the Christmas spirit. Great venue,
food and company. I'll be putting my name down for next year! - Yes well done Adeline for a most enjoyable time the food and entertainment were excellent, and with
good company around the table what more do you need. - Just looking at those photos and reading the editorial made me feel hungry. Thanks for bringing the event to my
attention, I wouldn't have known about it otherwise. I wonder if a lady would like to invite me along next year. lol! - I'm back
no shilling paulb, just had to bluff it!
- Great photos Colette - well done. Jean said you should have got one with one of the lovely ladies carressing my head and stroking my face !!
Adeline does organise
these extremely well and is a great ambassador for Dover.
The friends there and round the tables made it so enjoyable, as did the wonderful music and songs sung by Cameo; the food was very good - the whole experience was just
fantastic - we all had a great time.
Thanet Leisure Force did very well too - Congratulations and well done to Val and Ron.
Roger
- Excellent photos- Colette and the Girls were enjoying themselves. The Stone hall looked magnificent all decked out for 200 guests to enjoy the Celebration of the Dover Festival with our entertainers Cameo Opera. A Fabulous
lunch was served . Val, Ron , Chef John and all the staff. did a great job. The atmosphere was electric with old friends and family coming together- a wonderful start to the festive season.. The Dover Ladies Luncheon Club thank you all
who supported the day and hope to see you next time. - Good photo's and, as usual, where there is food there is our very own Roger Walkden.
- Not very
nice Chris.
It was a great day and I did pay for the tickets !
Roger - the event was described as a ladies luncheon.
it seems
that there are as many blokes there. - It was organised by the Dover Ladies Luncheon Club Howard; they open it out to hubbies, partners and
friends.
Roger - Well we decided to have a Ladies only table as our Girlie xmas outing for this wonderful Luncheon and we thoroughly enjoyed
it. 'Our Men' will be with us for our other XMAS events so we made the most of chattering on and on and on and on......as girls do LOL!! - who will be
brave enough to add something to collette's post??? - What, and have them go chattering on and on and on and on and
on................................................................ - Collett ,many thanks for joining in our celabrations My team and i wish everyone a lovely
christmas and continuing success and good health for the new year , - Well done Gillian and team on arranging a lovely festive draw evening, plus getting
some super prizes! Amber loved the "party" and obviously enjoys being at Regatta. - DOVER ATHLETIC v TOOTING, Tuesday 16th December 7.45pm at CRABBLE.
FREE OF CHARGE FOR EVERYONE, SPREAD THE WORD !!!!!!!!!!!! - Always a pleasure to pop into Regatta hair salon and especially for their Christmas
get- together, such a warm and friendly bunch of people not to mention great hairdressers. Gillian and her team are indeed a great asset to the Dover business community and a great success story. Well Done to all.
Little Amber
certainly loved posing for her photo, a star in the making for sure!! - Nice to see the girls from regatta putting on the seasonal cheer again and keeping busy when makeing us ladies look good for christmas.
- I must say the pictures we get on this Forum are outstanding the best I have ever seen of our area and this one is one of the top ones thank you for puting it on, I have
download it and will be sending to all my family around England.
I remain yours faithfully Vic Matcham. - The pictures, in particular the land- and sea-scapes, are
always a pleasure. - Many thanks Vic and Bern for the comments re our pictures. We always try to bring the best to our readers and contributors and are happy if people enjoy
them.
But I must add a general comment about copyright as the issue has cropped up lately. I know, you would think I was stating the obvious here but you'd be surprised, our pictures must not be reproduced in any way by
newspapers, magazines, websites etc etc as they are strictly the copyright of doverforum.com. General enjoyment of the pictures is fine but the key word here is reproduced. They must not be reproduced in any publication, electronic or
otherwise.
If anyone needs further clarification please drop me an email to the address above. Many thanks. - I am sorry I did not think about that so I
will not send it out to my family, but they are so good and sad to think they can not be seen.
I remain yours faithfully Vic Matcham - Vic its okay to send to your
family of course. Please do.
I was just making the general point aimed at all, not aimed at you in particular, about
"reproducing the pictures for publication in the media"
as the problem has cropped up
recently. But I refer only, only, to the reproduction of our pictures in mags, papers, websites, etc.etc.This aspect is not allowed without permission. Hope Im making myself clear. For family use is fine. This is as clear as I can make
it.
- Thank you for that so I will be sending them off this week.
Vic Matcham - the
picture here sums up why the traditional local newspaper is becoming a thing of the past.
in a town like ours there is very little news, so quality photographs are needed to lure the reader.
the immediacy of the internet is
a more important factor, anyone on line locally would get there news from here.
the press cannot compete, a story breaks on a thursday and it is a week before they can impart the details. - Many of you will
remember the announcement on 14th July 2006 when it was announced that Dover Priory would be served by the Domestic service using the Channel Tunnel Rail Link.
This followed a long hard slog of tactical lobbying that started back
in May 2003 when Dover was not being included while Folkestone, Canterbury and Ramsgate were. Couldn't have that!
Five and a half years after we started, it was a pleasure to be standing on the platform at St Pancras
International Station at 0940 on Friday morning as a guest of Southeastern Railways to see the HS1 Class 395 train pull in for the first time in daylight - they have been doing night trials.
The service is due to commence on 13th
December 2009 but we are in discussions with Southeastern to have it visit Dover before then.
Paul - will send some photos when I get 5 minutes - Ah yes I remember that day very well Nigel. High summer it was and we had a bit of a celebration in the White Horse afterwards. It was a big time for travel innovations in
Dover as those new hi tech buses were launched also.
Good to hear that the train is 'on schedule'! Yes when you get a minute pop a picture or two over, hopefully with you in them, and I will get them up right here on this page.
Well done Nigel, still in there shovelling hard for the citizens of Dover. - Indeed Paul - the Diamond Buses - launched 14th July 2006 - and of course since then we have had the new Solo's introduced, also low floor easy access
vehicles, and some increased frequency on Diamond services.
395 HS Train looks good and it will arrive to commence services between Dover Priory and St Pancras Interational on 13th December 2009.
Photos have been sent to
you.
Changing the subject - I met with the Highways Agency recently and they are 'quite warm' to enabling a certain building to be 'demolished in style' - date to be advised.
- intreegin post there nigel can you advance on the last part oe your post.
- Blinking heck, Nigel's
forked out for a Nintendo Wii. I thought I'd never see the day. - Well done Nigel.
I know you're not taking all the glory, but you have been the main man in
the negotiations and lobbying.
Trains and buses - both improved so much in recent years - well done.
Roger - proud as always :) go
nigel xxx - Looking very distinguished there Nigel, Man and Machine in Perfect Harmony, Well Done 'Nitro
Nige' - The return of the Silver Bullet - or Nitro-Nige rides again. Happy to be there with him at the controls.
Colette - wasn't 'man and
machine in perfect harmony' Dagenhams finest 'Sierra' maketing catch-phrase? - Yes very efficient looking there our nigel smart looking train to.
- Yes Buddy, a brilliant Sierra catchphrase, always stayed with me, its a long time ago now, still, we must have read about it somewhere, eh! lol! Do you remember that
other great catchphrase 'Vorsprung Durk Technique' probably spelt that one completely wrong but it means Forward Through Technology I think, an Audi advert as I recall.
Hope you are coming to the White Horse tonight, be great to see
you there.
- That Nigel gets everywhere. I had to leave the event early [9.30am] to cross London before the train arrived.
Nigel & his accomplice Tim Ingleton have e mailed virtually the whole attendance list to push Dover's agenda. They are both gems.Nigel is known throughout transport circles in the South East. He is greeeted by many & sneered at by our
competitors. [That's good, I think]Effective he is.Those he missed earlier in the day I picked up at my other meetings in London that followed Nigel's event.Watty - Good to see Nigel getting somewhere. Tonight there were miles of queues from the port all the way to Capel. Every roundabout was blocked so I was unable to turn to
get into town and no Police to perform traffic duties. Maybe they left early for Christmas who knows?
The poor motorists with children and elderly as passengers were left to the mercy of the speed of ferries leaving Dover. I'll wager
they will forever associate Dover with a ridiculous snarl up than with any fond memories of having travelled through the Port.
This is a regular occurance and yet still the old bill and those in charge do not have the foresight to lay
on any sort of emergency action plan such as portable toilets or even a little man from the council knocking on car windows to make sure that things are ok. Not everyone has a mobile phone for example so there they are stuck.
It's
just wrong, plain wrong.
I don't know who is supposed to be in charge of traffic in the area whether it's the Dhb police or Kent but by the looks of things they couldn't organise the proverbial whatsit in a brewery. This happens
alot and the roundabouts are blocked alot as well as the yellow zig zag box outside the leisure centre which I thought constituted a fine if violated.
Useless totally useless. Who voted this lot in
eh? - Paul - No one votes in DHB or their Police who look after the A20 when there are traffic problems - and ones they know about.
Who did you mean when you say "who votes
them in" ?
I agree it can get pretty awful sometimes (for Dover residents and users of the Port) and it's because the Port can't cope with, or process the trucks quickly enough.
Roger - CONGESTION
Dover is completely snarkled up this morning with port bound traffic back
along the A20 - Op. Stack is now in, far too late as usual, and the A2 is almost stationary back past the A256, Sandwich road junction.
This happens everytime there is a busy weekend and it is high time it was properly
addressed.
We now have a series of meetings in place with the main players that could be a mechanism to see what can be done but I need your help as onlt 'Team Dover' will have the clout to see this through.
PLEASE LET ME
HAVE YOUR EXPERIENCES THIS MORNING SO THAT I CAN MAKE THE STRONGEST POSSIBLE CASE TO THOSE WHO NEED LOBBYING.
Please send to: cllrnigelcollor@dover.gov.uk
- Lets hope that no one needs a hospital urgently this weekend. Yet again Emergency services will be overstretched to cope with longer Ambulance journeys etc.due to traffic backing up from the docks.
Until you need these
services yourself people do not realise how difficult it can be.
It would appear the real reason for no Hospital at Whitfield is the massive housing development plans.
One of the reasons to use town centre site was lack of Bus
service but no doubt there will be no problem providing such services for schools also planned for Whitfield.
On the plus side I suppose we do have a work house ready to home the unemployed ,evicted and down and outs (was that due
to forward planning?)
I wish everyone a Healthy Christmas.
Jano - Roger, I was very cross when I wrote that piece earlier and the "who votes them in" comment
seemed on reflection rather misplaced though on further reflection it appears it may not be so stupid a comment.
After all We vote in the local council and it strikes me that they do have a part to play in all this instead of just
washing their hands and leaving DHB full responibility in these matters. Don't these two organisations talk to eachother? There is too much to lose not only in terms of business but goodwill and the image of the town.
These problems
have blighted our town for many years.
There were no traffic Policemen at any of the roundabouts but were a couple at the port itself. It caused immense problems. All it needed was for someone to stop the lorries blocking the exits
and entrances off the roundabouts and junctions such as outside the leisure centre.
- Can I just say how much I love the word "snarkled"...........definitely going to be used
from now on. - i thought it was kent county council and/or the highways agency that was reponsible for the A20 going into the port.
not that either could do much about
yesterday and today's problems.
the local news has reported an unprecedented christmas rush for people heading to europe for the holiday. - Unprecedented is
the word. Ive never seen anything quite as bad as this is. Right now at 17.12 its still jammed all around. Last night at 1.30am in the morning on the way back from the Christmas Party we could hardly get across the main road, it was
chocked. Even at that hour. So much for the experts telling us there will be little travelling abroad this year due to the state of the pound. The pound and euro may be on parity but do we care? Not a bit of it. The opposite is the case.
The last person leaving the country has been asked to switch the lights off! - I believe the local authority should have some sort of scheme set up whereby council workers can
check on motorists and see if there is anything that they might need in the way of hot drinks, sandwiches and lay on some toilet facilites. As I said before there are many children and elderly passengers in some of those cars and they
have been there for many hours. Thankfully the weather is relatively mild at the moment but imagine if it were snowing.
I'd wager if there were a lorry carrying veal or other animals on their way to be shipped across the channel our
local MP would be pulling out all the stops in order to save them from discomfort. Sadly, however, the queues consist of mere humans.
So much for those trying to polish up the image of Dover. This would have set back their cause many
years as the only memories of the town most People will have gleaned is one of hours of endless waiting and no help for them. They have been left abandoned to their fate.
PS. Still no traffic policeman outside the leisure centre.
Plenty of cars horns being used to remonstrate with the greedy truckers who block the turnoffs. - As always, it is a very poor image of the town to leave people with, apart from the inconveniance and danger to us!
- Hi
Don't want to puta negative view at this timre of
year but surely Rogers posting can't be right?
Nigel was the main person on transport over past few years?
no it took a lot of people, Nigel, othr conservatives, dare i say labour people , lib dems, non political people, the
MP plus many more, together lots got achieved, rather than thank on person, many across the District HAVE been pushing this agenda for some time.
So I say well done to EVERYONE involved
(not part of th nigel
supporters club!) - To be fair though Keef it always seems to be Nigel at the front end in this train saga. I
dont know if you saw the feature we had running on this page for the past 4 or 5 days, just took it down today, and it featured Nigel who got to drive the simulator and ride in the new train as it did a test run to St Pancras.
So
he is in there on the frontline in all this where its happening. I believe Tim Ingleton of DDC was also with him. Theyve both worked together on this as I understand it. Although I am aware of others involvement, like Gwyns for example,
but nevertheless Nigel seems to be in there shovelling bigtime on transport issues on our behalf when it matters. Although am always interested to hear other views on
this. - Right! I'm completely hacked off with every time there are traffic problems through the town either DHB, or more usually the port police get the blame,
when the body that is actually responsible for keeping the traffic moving - Kent police, conveniently keep their heads down and drum up more press releases and newsletters in attempt to comvince the community, their paymasters, that they
are actually doing a good job..!
My husband works for the port police. He has just spent over 24 thankless hours (two 12 hour shifts) conducting traffic control in an attempt to keep this town free of gridlock. Fortunately it has
been dry and not too cold but more often than not this function is performed in the worst weather conditions. Throughout the last weekend he has not had a break and has been out on his feet for the entire duration of his shift
(s).
Obviously he does not know I am writing this, and no doubt he would be extremely annoyed if he did know, but I must defend him and his colleagues who work tirelessly, and without any recognition, to keep this town
moving.
For clarity, the port police are payed for and provided by DHB to police the Port of Dover. No public funding is available whatsoever (unlike Kent Police who are funded by the public to provide a service to the public).
Port police officers do not enjoy the same conditions and are payed significantly lower saleries than their county police colleagues (despite often sharing the same dangers and concerns).
Unfortunately it would appear that
whenever there is any form of traffic congestion connected with the port the local community point the finger of blame at the port police. Why? If you live on the Aycliffe Estate and your house is burgled would you call the port police?
Of course you wouldn't. You would look to Kent police to record and investigate the matter. So why then, when ignorant lorry drivers block the Aycliffe roundabout, does it suddenly become the responsibility of a private police force
based some distance away simply because the perpretators of the offence happen to be en-route to the port?
If there was a fatal accident at the Western Docks roundabout would you expect the port police to deal with it? No. Of
course you wouldn't and why, because the area and the responsibility for policing that area falls to Kent police..! So what is the difference and who is responsible when traffic snarls up and the junction becomes blocked? The answer is,
there is no difference and the body responsibility for that particular area of Kent is - Kent police...
In defence of my husband and his colleagues they do recognise that most of the traffic congestion in Dover is as a result of
traffic heading to the port. In an effort to remain good neighbours to the community they do try to relieve that congestion and conduct traffic management whenever possible in an attempt to keep the town moving. Unfortunately by doing so
they have now made a rod for their own back and are seen as the body responsible for any form of congestion within the town - and as a result appear to receive all ther flack when things don't go to plan.
In summary, the port
police are not obliged, or required, in any shape or form to intervene in any form of traffic control outside the environs of the Port of Dover. They do because they care about the community and want to assist the locals to go about
their business. Unfortunately they can not do this if incidents or other matters ocurring within the port dictate their attendance.
I'm sorry for this lengthy submission but as you have probably gathered I am so angry that
the efforts of my husband and his colleagues appear to be at best taken for granted, and at worst (certain Aycliffe residents take note) recognised as the body responsible for all traffic matters within the town.
Rest assured, my
husband and his mates do their best with limited resources and ever increasing demands on their time elsewhere. The next time you see a port policeman on a roundabout, directing traffic in the pouring rain, or howling wind, perhaps you
can remember (a) he doesn't actually have to be there, (b) his presence and actions are an attempt to help the community, and (c) the body responsible for the role he is performing (Kent Police), who you have payed for in your Community
Charge, are conspicuous by their absence... - mouse
i have not read any derogatory comments on here about the port police.
have i missed something? - Howard,
I am probably being over sensitive - but the inference appears to be there all the time... I know my husband and his mates feel it..!
The point of my
post was to indicate to the users of this forum, and others, just where the finger of blame should lie, if at all. Not DHB, not the port police, nor even DDC... But Kent police, the body responsible for the strategic road network within
Kent, and that includes Dover... - looked again mouse, the main accusations seem to be against DDC.
some mention the harbour board, but that may be venom against mr
goldfield.
i aimed at KCC and the highways agency, but no-one agreed or disagreed. - Mouse, Nobody is picking on DHB Police as far as I am aware but it has to
be said that they do wear a very similar uniform and as such one could not really be blamed for getting the two forces confused when such a calamity as happened the other day occured. It has to be said though that DHB do, as far as I am
aware, have juristidicion to police one mile outside of the port area and as such have a duty to carry out their duties as Police officers in every respect. This includes traffic duties.
Your Husband is being payed for doing a double
shift and no doubt deserves his pay but remember the people stuck in those horrendous traffic queues did not pay for the privilage of being stuck there and in many cases missing the ferries they booked well in advance.
Regardless of
whom is to blame one has to admit that it was a shambles and needs to be addressed as soon as possible. Not only for the sake of the image of the town but because the town depends on the smooth running of the ferry industry. The trip to
France doesn't start at berth one but at the point when the traveller leaves their house. Therefore it is beholden on those in charge (DHB, the local council and thereby the Police and other agencies) to work in unison in order to
maintain the smooth running of the whole operation.
To learn a lesson from this Governments "joined up transport policy" which has failed on every single level and that wasn't a political point, the lifeblood of this town depends
on every agency and company involved to do their bit and if it is seen to be lacking in any area then it must be sorted out otherwise the whole thing falls apart.
It has to be said that it in the interests of the Officers working for
DHB to see the smooth running of traffic is working efficiently regardless of their pay scale, after all they are there to serve the public and when say, for example, I am held up in traffic for forty minutes for a journey which should
take five trying to turn off a roundabout I make no distinction between which force is responsible for policing the traffic at that particular junction or roundabout. I just want to get
home.
- mouse,as an aycliffe resident we do have problems often,and once the western heights roundabout [aycliffe] is blocked,if it
wasnt for millatry hill the whole eststate woud be cut off from all emergency services,bus services etc.so some sort of policing would be gratefull wheater it be dhb or kent police.there are a nuber of over 60s and others who might need
an amulance or such like.one incident a short time ago a chap had his gp vist him.his gp dignosed chest pains and promtly called for a ambulance who have a 12 min.attendance timing took 2 hours and 2 atempts to reach him because of
bloced roundabout millatary hill and the rest of the esatate was blocked with port bound traffic.so spare us athought when your husband is diverting traffic at roundabouts.merry chritmas and a happy new to both of you. - THANK you Paul my wife and myself wish all on the Doverforum a very merry Chistmas and Happy Newyear, just to say the story I put out about Dovor or Dover was only a windup
for fun and it stoped there.
I remain yours faithfully Vic MATCHM - Mouse I would just like to say that I have every respect for the DHB
police. When I needed their help a few years ago they were terrific and really helpful. I think they do a grand job.
My husband is a train driver and when fares go up or trains are delayed or cancelled it always seems to be the guys
on the front who get the flack from passengers.
Anyway I hope you and your husband have a relaxing and peaceful Christmas and a good New Year too. - Merry Christmas and
good things for all of you in 2009 - jaqcui
no-one has taken a pop at the port police - Came back through the docks Sat eve due to having picked up in Switzerland had to clear customs at western docks, the police at aycliffe
roundabout could not have been more helpful - Howard - I didn't say
they had - I was just saying how helpful they were to me when I needed them.
Happy Christmas honey!! lol - Merry Xmas to All.
Watty - Merry Christmas to you Paul and may 2009 be the beginning of Dover's
revival.
Roger - Merry Xmas all and a very Happy New Year, I think this forum is a brilliant vehicle for us all to put our points of view
and ideas and facts to other interested people in our area. Of course we are all different and have different opinions, it would be a boring place if it was not so. We are also all privileged and must not loose sight that many people
around the world would love to have our opportunities. There are so many clichés that could be said at this time of year. Peace on Earth is the most hardest to achieve but should be the one that we all work on together.
Cheers to you
all, have fun and thanks.
Mouse, 100% behind you, great bunch of men and woman who do a great job.
- I trust you all
enjoyed a very merry Christmas. Just to give everyone the heads up to the inquiry into the proposed inquiry into the utterly pointless and mega expensive and politically correct installation of the wind turbines (an oxymoron if ever
there was one - you know wind and energy).
I trust those of you who enjoy taking in the views at Langdon and the surrounding area will be there to voice your opinion and oppose the subsidised monstrosity. I know it will end up as an
exercise in public consultation and the outcome is already in the bag in favour of egotricity, oh so sorry ecotricity but at least make the effort and you can tell your children and grandchildren that you did say something against this
complete waste of our money and ruination of something beautiful.
If you have been suckered into believing that Man is changing the climate and we must do something then please don't bother turning up. - Whilst not wanting to be at all
negative, Dover is looking gloomy these days,(no attack on anyone) but the future in parts does look grim.
Although Dover is not alone in this it has struggled unlike other close towns to prosper over many years.
Heres to 2009
being a year when Dover picks up.
All Dovorians want to see Dover prosper or we wouldn't have stuck with our lovely town where I was born.
Heres to Dover having one of its best years in 2009
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU
ALL
And good luck to all those that may be looking for jobs since losing or about to lose theres. - Hi
Some time ago I posted to ask you to contact me.
Did
see you in Elms vale recently but you were busy.
give me a ring when you get 5.
ta
keith - And happy new year to you all too. It has been a good year for many things, and a less good
year for others - but we are still here, still posting, still standing. Thank you for all your insights over the past year!!!! - Ah Keef I think by now it would be safe to assume
that Jacqui has got your message as you've been putting them up since last october !!lol - Great photos and a truly excellant Band.
I've put a posting on the other
thread and Mike McF. has given me a link to a you-tube movie he made of the march, but as it can't go here, I'll put it on the other
thread.
Roger - Looked like a really spectacular event, well done to Mandie and all those involved.
A happy, prosperous and healthy New Year to all.
I've a feeling that 2009 will be Dover's year in more ways than one.
- Does anyone know what happened at Buckland Bridge this evening? When I passed there on my way home from work at about 5.45pm there was an
ambulance and fire engine with lights flashing and I think I saw a car on its side. I do hope no-one was fatally injured or hurt badly. - Walking through town earlier today I noticed that the local council offices have protection on the outside of the buildings to deter seagulls. This means that the vermin fly to other buildings and domestic dwellings in order to
nest or find shelter. Is this not a somewhat selfish attitude by those in charge of the town? Surely some sort of cull should be implemented rather than pushing the problem onto someone else? Isn't this rather like those in power
"feathering their own nest", pun intended? - Thats an interesting one Tony...passing the problem onto someone else. Must admit I hadnt considered it that way before. I myself
have a problem with pigeons, but living where Im living Im afraid seagulls are an obligatory part of the equation. But pigeons are something else...messy noisy dirty etc etc. If only there was a way to rid ourselves of these
pests. - Actually I shouldn't really complain it's a trivial point really compared with what I have been reading about as of late. For example plans to give Police and security forces the power to snoop on Peoples' hard drive without
a warrant. This of course comes from our Socialist masters in Brussels so the Government can say "It's nothing to do wiv me Guv". Oh well best I do concentrate on flying vermin in the area so as not to point too much attention in my
direction for complaining about the Big Brother state We live in today. - socialist masters in brussels?
i thought that mr sarkozsy was in charge at present.
i cannot see him flying the
red flag. - Since i wrote the piece above I see Marks and Spenser have announced that they are closing 27 stores, mostly just food stores I beleive. Horror of
horrors though, let us hope that their store here in Dover is safe, as its a symbolic backbone of the community somehow. - I understand that Dover Marks and Spencer are safe
.They had a very good trading this Christmas.Keep shopping - I wish somone would turn the lights off in the empty pound shop!
They've been on since the day it was
vacated and possibly pose a fire risk - I agree with the comments, Dover does look very tired and shabby, Woolworths closing with job to follow at M&S its a
sad state of affairs, can Dover withstand this downturn. It seems that in the not to distant future there will be no high street. Dover is a dying town which is so sad. We need a boost to the high street not cable cars over the castle
!!! - The only way to stop the shops closing is to use them.I purchased a very nice bracelet for my grandaughter in dover and ear rings for my daughter.I do most of my grocery
shopping in Dover although i see Tesco most days when Im at the fort .The bigger shops are just out for profit not content with the smaller tutn over just sheer greed.Ive never understood how the cafes survive .I do use them on the odd
trip to town but not everyone can afford to buy lunch out . - It really is very depressing walking through the town. It's been like that for many years now. It's
obvious to any sensible local resident but seems to have been missed by those who hold sway in the town. The vast majority of shops look shabby and consist of charity shops, mobile phone sellers or repairers, gaming establishments (note
that the former Woolwich bank has an application for some sort of gambling licence fixed to the outside post) as well as the lower end of the retail market that include pound shops.
The remaining well known retailers are generally
overpriced (I wouldn't buy a mouse mat from one particular one I won't name).
Which leaves the consumer no choice really but to go elsewhere or shop online. I note the factory pub is doing well especially at opening time which is a
depressing sight with young Mothers smoking fags and drinking lager with young babies in tow shhhhhed at at every opportunity.
"Big issues Sir? have a nice day" gets tedious when you hear it every time you walk by them. No visible
Police presence except a patrol car parked by the lights on the corner just before Woolworths, sorry the big empty shop.
Take a breather and walk into Pencester and what awaits you? Dog muck and purveyors of fine cheap alchohol and
pedigree dog breeders chewing the fat and discussing the latest edition of Jeremy Kyle.
I could go on but it's too depressing which is why I take the car and detour down Maison dieu towards the sea and the hills.
If you think
things are bad now you aint seen nothing yet. - Every Town has its closed shops, our's are worse because they are left in such an awful state. There's things that could be done
to change the way they look and are used (while they're closed).
There are many good businesses in Dover that are making a living and need you to shop with them - as I've said on here many times, use the shops (pubs,
restaurants, cafe's etc.) or lose the shops.
There is no official body (or individual now) working on behalf of the businesses or Town now - all regeneration projects are in the future, what we need is someone NOW to be given
the authority and responsibility to work with the businesses and the Town and District Councils on a range of initiatives and projects.
I have a number of ideas and initiatives that I'm sure would help, but as an individual - as
I found out with the Dover Loyalty Scheme, no one can be successful on their own.
If you keep talking Dover down it will fullfil the prophecy, think positive and shop in Town - we have butchers, bakers, fruit and vegetable shops,
gift shops, clothes shops, flower shops, almost everything you need.
Dover's future is in your hands.
Roger - I think all true
Dovorians realy do want to see Dover prosper.
But the town does in parts look shabby.
This cannot be blamed on local Govt, (well not all of it!)
But its not good We can all talk up Dover(and should)
but if there are
problems its no good sweeping it under the carpet.
Dover looks tired in many places. - Happy New Year to you all. Fingers crossed Dover can get through 2009
without too many more problems.
Remember the positives, our location, the sea air, some lovely places to walk and view. These are free and we should embrace 'em :-) - dover has as much chance as any other town of turning things around.
the world downturn will continue to make things worse for a
while.
there are regeneration plans in the pipeline,not every town that is suffering at present has that. - It now looks to me that we certainly need the ASDA
regeneration more than ever. With the black hole of Woolworths and of course H Samuel too, (I bought some stuff in HSamuel at Christmas and the staff were all depressed to be losing their jobs as you can imagine, it wasnt something on
the cards) we are going to see the awful eyesore of empty shops right in the heart of our main shopping area. Always a bleak prospect. When you shop it is supposed to be an uplifting experience, so the girls tell me, nothing kills that
uplifting experience quicker than that malais you feel seeing empty shops all around you.
Im pinning my hopes on ASDA. A huge national chainstore majoring on food, the one commodity unlikely to see much of a downturn in a
recession....so very likely to thrive here in Dover. - You may be pinning your hopes on ASDA Paul, but believe me it will mean even more empty shops in the centre.
Terry
(Not a DTIZ fan) - Terry in all honesty I expect you are right..there will be some collateral damage, so many shops and businesses here in Dover seem to be hanging by
a thin financial thread. However a new power business will bring with it new life, will bring with it new money by dragging in shoppers from a wide surrounding area, and a whole brace of new satellite shops will open in this
wake.
That's the theory Im clinging to anyway. Holding tight as is, with the miserable shops we have, in case some of them might go bust is not really the right way to tackle progress. Of course nobody really knows for sure if
this the ASDA theory/option will work. Its like the various ways and options the political parties have for tackling the recession.. nobody knows if any one of them really will work, as only time will tell. It's like this with ASDA to
some degree. But leaving things the way they are is no good, things are eroding away day by day here in Dover. - with asda comes the new hotel/conference centre
and the walkway/parkland style to the sea front.
better than we have now. - Sadly, as the song says, You ain't seen nuthin yet. At present We are witnessing
a recession. This, without any doubt, will lead to global depression. It will be long and painful and for most People it will turn their world upside down. I don't think most People realise what is in store and in some ways it's just
as well. I would say,however, that We must prepare for it in every way We can. Not only financially but spiritually in a non religious way. That means making the best use of what cash savings you have and getting as much information as
possible as to the direction things are going in and acting upon that information as soon as possible.
Possibly of equal importance is to maintain a mindset which helps you weather the long storm ahead. Amongst many things this
includes getting back to the things that really matter in life and cherishing them in terms of family and friends. Take up more interests, hobbies, interesting things that not only serve to educate but give you and your family more of a
sense of fun - the basic things. Start off by taking more exercise, walking more. We have fantastic things to see in our area, although the view might be spoilt by the possible installation of useless wind turbines at Langdon but hey
there's hope that the inquiry will throw that idea in the dustbin.
Shops will close and the town centre will start to look distinctly more haggard then it does at present but just look beyond it all. Inside be of merry cheer that
whilst all those around you etc etc you know the drill.
I must say that I'd rather go through the dark days here than many other parts of the World.
Here endeth the sermon. - Sadly Pete, a lot of what you say is relevant.
If people just don't have the money to spend, they can't spend it (unless they use their credit card, which will make things worse for them later on).
Our problem
here, as in many Towns around the country, is that the shops that are closing, are chain stores, not local independant shops where people have invested their own money and effort in to them; in many cases, no matter how much shopping we
do with them, if they want/need to close, it has very little to do with how much WE shop in them.
I agree there are exceptions and if a chain is looking to close SOME shops they'll look at the worst performing ones.
I
believe that if the DTIZ is done and designed sensitively and sensibly (and from what I've seen so far, it is being) then it will be good for the whole of Dover Town and all related businesses.
We must move forward; we must shop
in Dover; we must support our Town.
I know it's like a broken record, but use it or lose it.
Roger - I do not know if this is true but been told Hinds could go to it is very sad for this town of ours back in the 1950s all shops were full
up, and you could buy anything in Dover, but today it is geting to the point you can not buy anything.
Vic matcham - Oh my God!!
I was happy til I started reading all the doom and gloom on here!!
Look back to
the war and post war years. Dover was battered and bruised, money was short, a lot of people had lost loved ones .......... From what I've been told, by some who were around in those times, folk got on with what they had, they were
friends, everyone got on and there was community spirit all over. They didn't have TVs, computers, washing machines, microwaves, convenience foods etc etc. Obesity wasn't a big problem, kids amused themselves with a ball or a stick,
staying indoors wasn't an option - they got fresh air and exercise. You could go out at night without worrying about getting mugged or attacked. In those days people knew what hard work was, the local bobby was respected, men were men
and thought nothing of working a 12 hour day to support their families, and women put their kids first and protected them.
These days everything is aimed at laziness. If we don't have the latest gadget we feel deprived. Our kids have
to have the latest game gadgets and designer clothes - why?? If we got back to the basics and realised that we won't actually become second class citizens if we don't own a huge TV or the latest mobile phone, we can live without them.
The necessities of life are a home, clothes, food and drink etc. If you can't afford these then sell some of your gadgets - you can get by without them, it's just a case of prioritising. My parents always told me to live within my
means - they shunned HP saying save up for it. My mum always said that if you can't afford it save up for it or do without - wise words.
All I'm saying is that we are all going to notice the recession but it's not the end of the
world, just needs adapting to. If you've got your health and a roof over your head you won't go far wrong. Personally I only have to look at my lovely kids and grandkids to realise how lucky I am. OK I haven't got as much money as I
might like but my goodness I've got a lot that money can't buy! I've also got a lot of people I love and who love me - that makes me rich as far as I'm concerned.
Think about what you do have - not what you don't, thats all I'm
saying. Happy New Year everyone xx - Jacqui, I couldn't have put it better myself. You capture exactly the point I was making. It has to be said that the war years differed in
many respects. One important difference is that during those dark days there was a common cause for the greater good - namely the sticking together to repel the Hun. There was also a fantastic propaganda exercise undertaken by the
Government designed to unite the People and to a great extent it actually worked.
Today, however, there is no such united front. For a multitude of reasons Society seems to be more fractured and any effort by the Government to repeat
their success at bringing the population together in order to fight for the common good (namely beating the recession/depression) would be met with howls of derision and rightly so.
- Dover in the late 40s and all the 50s and into the 60s was the place to be the town was so full not one shop was empty we had the Army here and the R.N. would call in , there were lots of fights in the town pubs on a Saturday
night, but the town in the day time was full with public bus and cars run both ways from the front to buckland paper mills, and you could walk out of one job right into the next one I was doing that before i went into the army,I was
even sell the newspapers on the corners in the high St when I was still at school, there was all the lanes also full of shops and pubs, and a policeman was a policman one word out of place to him and you were for it.
Vic
matcham - Yes those were the days Vic but, sadly, never to return. Ever!
Many People are feeling extremely gloomy about the future. Many of them have experienced the
good times, if you can call them that, although they didn't realise that the times they lived in were the good times. Now We are faced with the stark reality of the situation We face as a Country - namely mass long term unemployment. In
my opinion successive administrations have squandered many opportunities to safeguard the economic prosperity of Our country. Not only that they have compounded this by managing to block any semblance of hope for change by locking doors
firmly shut which might have offered an opportunity for any options for fast radical change which might be needed in order to combat the inevitable problems We face. The list of lost opportunities is long and would stretch to many pages
which is impossible to detail here but suffice to say that it has left Our Nation rudderless and unable to have any real control over our destiny.
Take energy, for example, which as a subject has been deemed newsworthy lately. The
outlook is grim long term if We hope to keeps the lights burning in the future. Coal is now the new nuclear in terms of how it is percieved as an energy resource. In the seventies trendy liberals drove round in fashionable French cars
displaying stickers saying "nuclear power- no thanks.
Now coal, which is grown in abundance in this country is treated as a pollutant. Even if We wanted to use this type of fuel We have hamstrung ourselves by creating laws that would
let us do so via the climate change bill. Therefore We are left with the use of alternative comedy, sorry energy such as wind. Check out the turbine at Honeywood towers and note that the blades have not moved an inch in two weeks.
So
you see, something so fundamental, something crucial to the economic well being to the Nation has been relegated to politically correct thinking in order to appeal to the sixth formers who lobby Government in respect to "saving the
Planet".
So it goes with all manner of policies from housing to immigration, human rights to sexual orrientation legislation the list goes on and on and on.
So while Rome burns politicians fiddle, pass more intrusive laws, snoop,
control, nanny and do all the wrong things. In the meantime our competitors steal a march on us in every respect.
Gawd elp us. - The "larger ladies" shop has been closed since
earlier last year.
- Hullo Paul you really must get out more .Fancy not noticing the closure of that shop so near to The Green Room or whatever in French
- Ah thanks for that info girls Im obviously going round with blinkers even though I practiced what I preached and did my entire Christmas shopping this year between
Woolworths and Hinds, singlehandedly keeping all the jewellers afloat or so I thought!! My daughter had a little job too in Clinton Cards this year for the first and I stood outside the "larger ladies" store while staring at her in
admiration, not noticing it was shut.
But there we are, all working together we got there in the end. - happy new year to all who know me
- Firstly apologies for puttting this on this thread but thought, as it is the Home Page more of you would see it.
KENT HIGHWAYS HAVE ADVISED THAT COOMBE
VALLEY ROAD WILL BE CLOSED FOR A FEW DAYS FROM TODAY BETWEEN THE LONDON ROAD & PRIMROSE ROAD JUNCTIONS.
This is for scaffold to be erected to allow urgent bridge repairs.
The official diversion is using River and Hillside
but locals will know the more direct route for small vehicles. - Beautiful and stunning pictures Paul - by goodness you must get up early to catch the sunrise like that.
They would make excellent wallpaper. - Oops, stupid me. Sun rises in the east, sets in the west. That's pretty basic stuff. Anyway, great sunSET photos
Paul. - Thanks Phil yes Im in a lucky spot here...the sun rises in one window and sinks in the other. You can just see the tip top of Shakespeare Cliff right where
the sun goes down in the pictures above. in the summer the sun sinks much further over behind the Dover Grammar School for Boys as I look at it. It has a shorter arc these days. - nice pics paul,shakespere cliff i can see every morning when making my morning cuppa.
- Ah its a nice place to be having a cuppa
Max. - Harsh weather indeed PaulB, I'm afraid I succumbed to a dreadful cold as well, very dramatic pictures, quite stunning. I have put up a sweet little story on the Members
Club, Brrrrr ... it was certainly cold in Germany, even the kids wanted out lol! - Good News!! There is around £50,000 left in the pot for individuals to
come along to learn how to use a computer and get support with returning to work or changing their job! if you know anyone who needs support due to redundancy or needing new skills then please point them my way. There is lots of
support in this town for people in need of skills training. It's not all doom and gloom. Pick up the phone and change your life! 01304 212500 or www.pitmandover.co.uk - That is good news indeed Paula.
I have sent you an email about it, hope you receive it
O.K.
Roger - It is good to see such a positive response from the DDC and JobCentre Plus facilitating and providing support for the recently
unemployed including the staff who have been made redundant from Woolworths. This advice, information and more importantly telephone number contacts are of great advantage as many simply do not know which is the next step to
take.
I see that Paula Elliott of Pitmans is offering retraining which is great news for all, let us hope that many recent and long term unemployed will benefit from such positive
feedback. - Yes its good to see that the DDC are on the ball with this one and are fully aware of the job loss misery going on all around us. For anyone
unemployed or needing any kind of help please take note of the info in the editorial above as it wont be on display for all that long, this page is transient changing every few days.
The retraining idea is also good..it can get
you into a new line of work when your old job skills are no longer needed. - I'm sure this is a good idea for those losing their jobs and congratulations to DDC on
the initiative.
Wouldn't it also be a good idea to have a Dover business support body set up to help the local businesses ?
There are many and various ways that a body can help businesses, but perhaps the most useful is
encouraging people to shop here, not just at the big supermarkets outside of Town.
The encouragement can be in many, many ways, but needs to be started sooner rather than later.
The appearance of the Town itself can be a
discouragement to many and soon it will be the inceasing number of closed shops that will be putting people off - too many holes in the proverbial High
Street.
Roger - Interesting comments here .Yes DDC are working to help people with financial problems for once we are ahead of the game .Some
sterling work is being carried out .
Roger interesting item on Radio Kent this morning .A view from Tenderten,my favourite small town .The message that came over loud and clear ,small independant shops .Some of us enjoy looking at
the individual service provided.Why in Dover no one has made a living selling ffresh fish beggars belief .They have one in Deal.We used to have a family firm who sold handbags and luggage long since gone .The independat wine shops
.When buying wine very restricted choice .There is no choice the big boys have taken that away . - SUE
You are correct the big boys have taken away choice!
but
your party believes in this compitition!
sadly the major stores will see the end of your little corner shop - there were a couple in the town as well as tescos,there was
penns fish shop up near cherry tree one in the market hall under the tax office now closed,at one time a fish monger used to turn up at back of charlton centre. - There
are in fact two independent wet fish shops in Deal plus two small supermarkets and you can buy fish off the beach sometimes! So maybe Dover people dont eat so much fish!
Today I wanted shoes cobbled and found out that we only have
Timpsons in Dover as the man in the Charlton Centre has closed - they apparently dont have stitching machines so had to send them away!! back to the disposable society!!! Come back the old market building in the market square and the
smell of old leather......
D - there are indeed excellent wet fish shops in deal and also the quayside in folkestone.
unfortunately we are
choc a bloc with shipping, i cannot see the local dhows taking a chance in the early morning darkness with the "pride of calais".
very difficult to explain to foreign visitors why they cannot sample fresh fish here
though. - It has to be faced - the best fresh fish shop around here is in Tesco. They have a very good display of real fish that look as though they have been in the
sea recently, ie theyre not boxed or fingerised, and they smell delicious when you stroll by. Never bought any myself as wouldnt trust my cooking skills, but it all looks very good. - I
would rather eat the ice that surrounds the fish in Tescos. I think it probably has more flavour. - I must say that from my experience Jobcentreplus have always been helpful and a
source of good links to training and opportunities.
After my traumatic demise from full-time work in London back in 2003 (after 26years since leavng school) I found the infrastructure in place gave me confidence and
leads.
In fact it was an audition for a singing opportunity at the now closed 'Nostalgia Bar' in Folkestone (found through the Jobcentre) that spurred me to pursue appearing as 'Buddy'. It also helped meeting up with Toyah
Wilcox (who was judging there that night and told me not to give up on it).
So I would say go for all the help you can from them and don't despair or give up no matter what life throws at you.
You never quite know what is
over the horizon. - more fun catching it yourself,at least you know its freash.
- Thank
you Stephanie and Chris for a lovely evening, we had great fun and it was really nice to meet your family who are a very friendly bubbly bunch of people. Enjoy your Anniversary weekend together, I'm sure you'll all have a lot of
fun. - What lovely pictures!! I hope you all had a fabbo time, and congrats again. It's so nice to see people looking so genuinely happy!!! Love
it! - GET RID OF THAT HORRIBLE BEARDY WEIRDY THING BOSS lolololol
Makes you look REALLY old
luv Mand
xx - Ah yes..an old and grizzled veteran , a journalistic wreckage, having covered more than 40 wars and the Great Penge Bungalow Murders....
lol! - Aww Mand - I like it!! I think it makes him look distinguished too. But then I love beards anyway - I say keep it Paul lol
Glad the party went so well Chris and
Steph - you look so happy. Saying that, since I've known you both I don't think I've ever seen either of you not look happy - a true case of marital bliss - ahhhhhhh! lol - Jacqui he can't possibly keep it, just think of all those noodles from his pot noodles getting lodged in there.
It aint gonna be pretty lololololololol - Beards rule, but what conspiracy insists on them growing in grey?
- A nice collection of pictures there, we all had a great time, looking at the picture
of the 'Bishop' with his flock, Charlie and I look remarkably like twins lol!. Thanks for a great night Chris and Stepth. - It was a very good evening and nice to see you
all again. Cheers Steff and Chris! - Many thanks to Chris and Steph for inviting us all. It was a fantastic
night and great to catch up with everyone, forumites, councillors, George Cross people, Roman Painted House people...yep everyone was there!
Nice to see you again also Paul B, haven't seen you in ages and sorry I did not
recognise you until you came over. How long have you had the beard? Hope to see you down one of the George Cross meetings one day, would be good for a catch up. Hoping your well.
Congrats again to Chris and Steph, we're counting
down already to the 15th anniversary celebrations!! :)
Thanks again for inviting us from,
Tez, Tony, Di, Dave (Grandad) and Janet. - Congratulations
on another note nice to meet up wit terry c.recently
how are yer bruv? - There are some great kids
with real personalities in Dover and they are out there doing it for themselves. Great indeed to be selected to make a movie. The benefit of course of being involved with groups like the Marlowe Youth Theatre. As ColetteB said
somewhere...Saskia wont have any problem playing a tearaway teen ! lol - Good Luck Saskia and Ben and the others too.
The road to stardom is long and
painful, but if you get there, it's fantastic; everyone has to start somewhere and the Marlowe Youth Theatre is as good as anywhere.
Roger - It's so nice seeing former court members moving on to bigger things. They were both stars when on the DCAL courts and I am sure they will be super stars one day.
Great kids botth of them,and I am Very proud of both of
them. Lv Mand x - As a proud Dad, I wish Saskia and her fellow actors Ben, Alice. Natalie and Molly all the best for the future, as they say in the hallowed halls of The
Old Vic - 'Break a leg' lol! - Wow that's really great, well done guys and girls.
- Saskia has thoroughly enjoyed herself over the last few days running around
the streets of Faversham chased by 'police' it has been hard work with all the takes and shoots. Well Done to the Marlow Youth Theatre and the film crew, we saw Ben's Mum and Dad, Karol and Andy Steel shivering in the cold in
Faversham whilst watching the filming.
Saskia is now back at school studying with her feet firmly on the ground until the next bout of filming. Good luck to all at the Marlow Youth Theatre, I can't wait to see the film, I'm one
Proud Mum. - Oops! I've spelt the Marlowe Theatre wrong in my posting there, I've dropped my e's when I shouldn't have.
It's MARLOWE of
course. - I need some clarification here.
The surly looking young person at the extreme right in the photos above bears more than a passing
resemblance to a charming, pretty vivacious girl I met in Dublin some months ago
with her mother.
Her name was also Saskia. She could not be the same person by any chance
????? - Ah! Indeed it is, Noel. So I guess she is definitely an actress in the making, playing the part of the surly, troublesome teenage tearaway to perfection eh!
- Like a young Brando in 'Rebel without a cause' Its great to see these kids out there doing their thing. Well done to the
Marlowe. - SUPERB, I am the green-eyed monster! Really pleased for them - you go Guys and Girls.
- I am so proud of and pleased for both Saskia and my Ben. He loved every minute of the filming, as he got to play outside his personality - a real bad boy for a change - and can't wait to get back to do some of the closing
shots. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished result at one of the film festivals.
Acting is keeping Ben very busy at the moment, as he is also rehearsing for Alan Ayckbourn's The Boy Who Fell Into a Book with his school drama
group. He's playing the principle role of Rockfist Slim, a hard-nosed American detective. They will be performing it at the Roundhouse Theatre on 27 and 28 February if you would like to go and watch. I've seen some of the rehearsals
and it's very funny.
Did everyone see the YourDover today? Page one and twelve. - PS I forgot to mention there's also a piece in the YourSwale (Faversham
edition) on page 3. - The Boy Who Fell Into a Book was the Rebel
Without a Clause. - Do you know anyone who still doesn't know how to use the Internet? There is a free course for adults at the Pitman Training
Centre called Feeling Fine Online 09! Its a short course and takes just a couple of hours - or stop when you have had enough!
Ring 01304 212500 to book a session! - Karol, I have just read 'Your Dover' Online, Great Publicity there on the front cover and a very interesting piece about Ben. I'm sure he will realise his
dreams to study drama in Wales and wish him all the best of luck in his future exams and treading the boards. - Kent Timewarp Car Costume Group also
mentioned in Your Dover today. - Page six of the Dover Mercury tomorrow - all about Saskia and Ben in 'Playground'. Also on the leisure pages on page 22 all about The Boy Who
Fell Into a Book.
That piece about Ben in the YourDover on the School page was a follow-up to the YourDover interview he did in December.
My boy has got a better acting career than I
have! - looks like a police lineup or
somthing from most wanted [asbo unit].just kidding.lol - Paula - did you get the email I sent a couple of weeks ago ?
Roger - Page 15 of The Kentish Gazette, Whitstable Gazette, Herne Bay Gazette and Faversham
News! - Karol Andy and Ben well done,if the Council find out about this they will put my rates up living opposite all these
Actors. - Oh Jeez! PaulB as Santa Claus! We don't want to frighten the children lol!
- You'll
have to put on a lot of weight too Paul, not just a set of good whiskers.
Glad to hear that white beards (as opposed to younger, brown or black beards), are
"in".
Roger - I don't care what anyone says, I like it!
Distinguished, handsome and totally hot!!
You know where to send the
cheque Paul lol - It died unlamented,it's time past,
those in it's shadow failed to heed it's last shallow gasp.
For nearly half a millenium it had stood sentinel
over a million lives,
the counter note to a towns fortunes.
Blind but benevolent it sheltered many a soul.
It's end was lonely beyond compare,for though for so long it had stood for us,at it's time of passing none of us were
there.
Rest in Peace Dover Harbour Board. - Wow! Jacqui.. I'll have to send you a very large cheque..its on its way. lol!!
Very interesting one there J, sadly the
DHB are still with us. Interestingly though, a few years back in the General Election when the Conservatives offered to privatise the port in their local manifesto, and to distribute the gains locally, nobody took them up on
it. - This type of crime is increasing all the time and am not naïve enough to think ID Cards will eradicate this type of fraud but they will stem the flow and
help tackle it.------- in my opinion!!! - Lets face it, its far too easy at the moment to get away with stuff like this. HMRC caught these guys presumably because
they attempted it on a huge scale. But there are many lesser people doing it at lower level, lower scale. All you need is a utility bill and your half way there. Thats not enough protection for me and you, the guy in the
street.
An ID Card would put in an extra tier, an extra hurdle for the criminal to overcome, would be very hard for Mr Abimbola(top right) to pass himself off pictorially as John Smith from Cheltenham.
ID Cards might not be
a total answer but could certainly help. - Yesterday one of my sons got a call from his bank - NatWest - to say that his details had been found on a skimming device attached to a
cash machine in Canterbury. So he has the inconvenience of having his account closed, new details to be issued and he can't access his account until next week.
Full marks to his bank though, picked up quickly so no money taken from
his account. What a shame that none of us can afford to relax our vigilance where our personal details are concerned. I find it all so sad.
Oh and Paul - I won't cash your cheque - no charge for telling the truth ;
-) - Rats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Does this mean those nice gentlemen from Nigeria who promised me millions wern't being quite truthful?
All they wanted was by bank
details so they can deposit my share of their late fathers vast fortune.
How many people fall for this and similar scams? - Good one Steve !
I think
the sad fact must be that many people are hoodwinked by these schemes. If it didnt pay off you wouldnt see so much of the scams being used.These are professional criminals so there must be some reward in it.
Only this morning I
had one from the Central Bank of Nigeria, and another from someone called Luna Seba discussing her inheritance from the Ivory Coast. All rubbish of course.
But you see TV programmes here in the UK Steve and people are falling for
allsorts of scams all the time.
The thing to remember for one and all...if the offer is too good to be true then it probably is too good to be true...leave it alone. - What's this, Luna Seba is also a sham! and there was me thinking it would be an end to all financial worries lol!
Seriously though, it makes you wonder how people actually fall for these scams. Please do not touch
them. - Awww, Fifi is a darling, that little face........
- Doesn't she look lovely! just to answer
your question PaulB, she is an Orange Roan Cocker Spaniel and really great fun too. - what a beautiful
mutt!!
is it an american breed by any chance? - cor blimy guvner there was me finking it was one of them poodle thingys and not one of those little darlings.
- Nice dog if you like dogs. What I really don't like is the inept, stupid, brainless, childish, nulabour, lost for ideas so let's scrape the bottom of the barrel idea (I
could go on searching for more words to describe this idea but it would use up too much bandwidth) to install a giant television screen in the market square during the (complete waste of taxpayers money and only a telefest for couch
potatoes) olympic games.
Why? For what purpose? Don't We as a nation watch too much television? Won't this encourage more couch potato tendencies? Who wants to watch six men running in a straight line for ten seconds anyway?
I
suppose it might serve one good purpose though by covering over the delightful view of the bakers shop which closed down many months ago. - paul
i think that you may have got
the wrong of the stick with this one.
a bit like fifi!!
no couch potatoe stuff on this one, all standing in the fresh area with fellow members of the human race watching our olympians winning lorry loads of gold
medals.
it will inspire dovorians to emulate them, i feel sure. - Maybe you have a point Howard, much in the same way that Eastenders inspires so many of our
young people today - Had I known that Saskia and Ben were here in Faversham..i may have even toddled down with hot drinks and cakes...
alas its all finished!
Hope they saw how pants the shopping is in Faversham, and will never moan again! - paul
it is a known fact that as soon as wimbledon
starts, vast numbers of people pick up a tennis racquet and visit the local park courts to show how easy it is.
when mr flintoff and his friends regained the ashes, children everywhere grabbed hold a cricket bat and copied the
egland teams exploits.
it follows that the olympics will bring heroes in many sports, people that some of our disaffected youth can look up to.
i have little interest or knowledge in many olympic disciplines, but like others,
will excitedly follow the efforts of our chaps and chapesses. - Howard I see the point you're making but I don't think "vast" numbers do reach out for their
tennis and cricket bats come the season for the sport. The most they might do nowadays is reach for their Wi guitar or whatever they call the console but certainly not take up sports on a vast scale. In the past maybe but then those were
the days that spinsters cycled to Church and the sound of bat on willow could be heard on every village common or at least that is the recieved view.
What I really object to is the fact that those who make the decisions when it comes
to issues such as this think that this idea of installing what is basically a giant television in the market square will somehow fulfill the needs of the local population. And to what ends?
How is our life in the town enhanced and
made more fulfilled by such a move?
I, and many others will not watch the Olympics finding it a complete bore. There are those who find the World cup football finals boring too. Why not show the World cup finals on the big screen as
well? While We're at it why not show Big Brother too? Millions of people enjoy watching that as well.
I find it an intrusion. It's bad enough having to endure the hoards of ill behaved fools one finds en route to the local shops but
this is a step too far in my opinion. Basically it forces someones' idea of what it means to "have a good time" on Me and everyone else. If I were to bring a generator and plasma screen downtown, turn up the volume to the maximum and
screen, say, Jeremy Kyle or Neighbours or even channel 4 racing no doubt I would be forced to move on and possiblly procecuted.
But then again I'm just one of the little guys and not one of the officially sanctioned who think that
this is what the population should embrace.
Bread and circuss spring to mind. - paul
we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
jeremy kyle, the soaps and big
brother are not real life.
the olympics, world cup and other events are the culmination of years of hard work put in by self denying people. - Fair enough
Howard but ask yourself how much does each medal cost a country. Millions of Pounds is the answer. You consider that to be real life?
In a global depression? Hmmn not in my books. Real life is running after a ball in the park or
swimming in the local pool (or in the sea in the case of may in the area) but this extravaganza in 2012 is merely a giant televisual event pandering to the masses sat eating pizzas in their front rooms and more importantly to the the
ranks of advertisers and big corporations who hope that their logo wlll be noticed among the many.
Most of the people who I know who look forward to this non-event do no sports whatsoever and are overweight and will never, ever
participate in any sport other than hunting the remote.
Anyhow, regardless of what is being screened, I still consider it a gross intrusion to be subjected to a giant telly in the middle of Dover town.
How would you feel if they
decided to put it on the White cliffs or outside your house? How far would your enthusiasm reach when you find the volume too loud and the litter left by the great unwashed polluted your local
environs? - You are buying the Labour spin PaulB and accepting the Labour distortions and interpretations.
This is the Home Secretary who pretends no knowledge of a police
raid on an opposition MP who was just doing his job. She clearly is an admirer of the Mugabe regime and methods of staying in power. - Do
nothing and people, who love watching the Olympics and there are plenty that do, will stay in doors and watch it, put big screen in square and people, young and old will get off their backsides and go into town and watch it. And it will
encourage them to be more active as well. - Ah Jenni! I'm sure they would have loved
seeing you again and the hot drinks and cakes would have been a welcome boost. Thankfully they didn't have enough time for shopping so saved a few bob there! I didn't realise you couldn't get any decent pants in Faversham lol!
Have added a posting on the Politics thread in Members Club following yesterdays visit by Home Secretary Jacqui Smith. - I
actually get excited about shopping in Dover...something i never thought i would say!
And you cant get much in Faversham.... apart from the yummiest cakes... and I do believe it has more charity shops than Dover.. I kid you
not! - sorry to say this paul as i know you love your camera work but the leading pic is awful.
the smiles from gwyn and jacqui are spine
chilling.
the mouths turn upwards, but the eyes are cold.
that is the way of professional politicians and actors - Howard, that's a little unfair in my
opinion. They both share the look of someone who has to face the next thirty years of increased taxes to pay for Bottler Browns' bailout package.(if We are lucky, even longer if interest rates go up in the future which they inevitably
will). I think in the future historians will say that it was probably better to have "done nothing" rather than pour billions of Pounds trying to pay their way in order to win the next election.
Still why should they care eh? Their
pension will see them alright have no doubt about that. - Oh Dear! re the picture Howard. I hope its okay. If it isnt the fault would be all mine as Jacqui and Gwyn did their bit
by taking time to pose. You dont take these pictures though in ideal circumstances. Three or so photographers from the newspapers were also snapping away so you just snap away yourself and hope for the best. It doesnt lead to any kind of
finesse but at least you get a shot kind of thing. - Howard
I think the photo Is ok
Its the message thats important
anyway - Nice tights ,however a lady does not cross her legs like that in public .Never flattering .
- It's just a picture for heavens sake. It really doesn't matter how her legs are crossed or what tights she has on or their facial expression they have. Quite frankly it really doesn't matter. People don't look at a picture
normally saying "ooo look their eyes aren't right." The photo is a good quality shot showing the 2 main characters of the article. That's all the picture needs to show us.
As Paul says. It is VERY difficult gaining a good shot
especially when the press are there, as naturally they want to get the best possible shot, us ameatuer photographers just have to steal the same shot later. Paul it is a good shot. - i would just like to state that the article in the local rags titled "The modern day finishing school for troubled teens " is a lie!!!! although my daughters photo is on there she is far from trouble and has plenty of support
from home. as im sure all of the old forumite can vouch for her, i am very proud of my A level student.
heidi x - Hello
Heidi, what newspaper was that in as I didnt come across it ? - hiya paul!!!! long time no see! it was in the kent on sunday and your dover. xxx
- Can anyone tell me how many people turned up to this meeting? Under what criteria were invitations given? Is there a list of questions asked and more importantly the answers given? What was
the purpose of the visit? Instead of concentrating on the artistic value of the photograph taken surely the more relevant points I ask should be addressed.
Another question, when was the last time Mr. Prosser was seen in Dovertown. He
seems to have found himself a nice little spot in Deal but as a representative of Dover I, for one, have seen neither hind nor hair of the man for ages and ages.
- You
ask some interesting questions there Mish and I will try to answer the bits Im able to answer.
First of all this was a Labour Party event so in effect was a private meeting for Labour Party members. I am NOT a member of the Labour
Party so was not at the central meeting although I did see people entering and there was a large turnout.
I was however at a side meeting for the local Press which took place prior to the main event. It was at this small prior
meeting that local media guys were able to ask questions and take pictures.There was coverage from this 'meet the press' bit this week in the Dover Mercury but not so far in the Dover Express. Maybe next week for the Dover Express. And
of course this is where our coverage here on Doverforum came from too.
As it was a private Labour Party meeting there is no public record as far as I know of the questions asked by the Labour members in the main hall. But it must
be emphasised that there is nothing peculiar about Party meetings of this nature, the Conservatives do the same, they bring Shadow Cabinet members down from London to address the faithful which is perfectly legit.
In this instance
because of who the lady is, the Home Secretary, meeting the press briefly beforehand was almost obligatory.
With regard to Gwyn Prosser and the amount of times he is seen locally. I cannot answer that one, but would just add that
an MP has to spend half their time in Westminster doing the daily chore aspect of an MPs life.
- would have been better if a wider ordiance was
invited. - I note the rumours that Jacquie Smith could be due for the chop along with Alistair Darling as the two Cabinet Ministers seen as least effective.
- Thats very good news about
Doverand it is a great place to look around and stay but it is again the town what lets it all down away from that yes it is very good,my wife and myself went to Walletts court last byear the meal was very very good but the cost for two
was £110pounds and we do not drink so it is dear there but again very good if - it sounds like you were ripped of there vic.
- you want to see the room rates.
more of a place for that special occassion - No can not say that
MAX it was very good when you go there they do know how to look after you and the food was very good and that is what you pay for,but could only do it about once in two years have only been that once i do not know if we will ever go
again unless they did a big discount.
Vic M - I didn't see that program, but that is excellant news for Dover and the U.K. in
general.
I've been saying for a while, that we should be advertising in the papers in Nord pas de Calais and further afield about what we have here.
I've written to the Town Clerk about funding such promotions as we need
to strike while the iron is hot - or perhaps I should say, while the Pound and Euro have parity.
I appreciate that there are elements of the Town that need smartening up and that is even more reason to have a Dover Business
support body that will work on all the elements of making Dover somewhere where people will be happy to visit for a few days and spend their money as well as the resident population of course.
Accepting the Euro and speaking
French - that's why I emailed Paula Elliott of Pitman Training who put a piece up here a few weeks ago then repeated it a week later about there being money for training - for free; I've not had a reply though, sadly.
We have
the potential to be a great destination, but we needn't wait 20 years to realise it.
So much to say and so much to do, but I know that as an individual nothing can be successful.
By the time something is done, the Pound
will be back up to 1.40 Euros and we'll have built the Land-bridge and we'll be passed by again.
Roger - Roger you have a lot of good ideas
and good energy levels and I think the town missed a trick not appointing you (Roger Walkden) as the Town Centre Manager way back then. Of course we probably dont want to go back over old ground now, our eye is now on the future, but the
previous appointees captained all hope for new ideas firmly onto the rocks.
But its not too late. In these times of real opportunity, and it seems weird saying that in a recession, but the recession in a way has brought about this
opportunity by giving us economic parity with the Euro, thereby making us a tempting tourist destination.
But we need somebody out there fighting our corner. Tempting the foreign markets with a few new ideas. Now with no Town
Centre Management at work, and with the Chamber of Commerce seemingly re-structuring following the sad loss of Ray Haines, this might be a crossroads that presents the town with an opportunity to do something new.
There are lots
of tourists out there with lots of money and many willing to spend it here in Dover, if only they knew about its tourism potentialities. But who will tell them? - Thanks Paul - I couldn't agree more.
I have now built a document showing the areas of responsibility for such a new body and it is currently standing at 22 different initiatives.
A number of people know what I'm
trying to do, but will they take notice, will they let me work on them ? I have no idea.
We need new businesses here and they need to know what we are doing to help them and other businesses and improve the parts of the Town that
need working on here - short, medium and long term.
Roger - Is that Ted I spy running through the snow? Very picturesque snow shots there,
thanks Andrew and Karol. Hopefully Connaught Park will be blanketed in snow later today or tomorrow and I can get some nice pictures whilst walking Fifi.
Barry enjoyed talking to the lovely Nazaneen and got a nice picture to
boot. - Just got some more pix of this morning's snow - jusy emailed them across.
And yes, that's Ted (and poor old Andy) - they both needed the
exercise! - Georgie my dog said hi to her boyfriend Ted not Andy
- Ted says: "Woof, woof, Georgie!
" - And Fifi says'Woof Handsome' to Ted, so you are one lucky fella Ted having two gorgeous girls vying for your
attention! - Snow is alright unless you have to get to work and when you get there you have to work in it and then find away bac home, but it is all good
fun.
VicM - lovely pic of the lane in whitfield in winter.
it just needs an estate of houses to add the
finishing touch - Woof, woof to all my lady friends, and a special woof to the lovely Fifi.
- Ah
succinctly put Howard. That was the first thing that occurred to me when I saw Andrew's picture of the Whitfield leafy lane. A housing estate would bring an abrubt end to this leafy idyll.
See more about this story in the thread
My Blood Boils in the Members Clubhouse Forum. - Further to the tourism piece above and the postings just below on the TONIGHT programme featuring Dover...and the
talk about the upturn in home holiday bookings, it was interesting to note today that Pontins, the holiday camp of yore, has announced 2,000 new jobs throughout the country and 300 down here in the Southeast. They are having a major
overall to cope with demand as bookings are considerably up. The glory days for these Holiday Camps were the austere times after the war, when all were desperate for a bit of a good humoured romp by the sea. The austere times are
back.
So it isnt just pie in the sky, the British holiday market is set for a revival. - paul
the holiday camps/complexes have always moved with the times(the hi-
de-hi days are long gone).
companies like pontins, warners and others quickly adjusted to market changes, they are always fully booked.
people have long gone to the sun for theit main holiday, but wintertime, christmas and
other times they know that the above mentioned companies offer weekends full of entertainment and massive meals at an affordable price.
mid week they are full of retired people enjoying tea dances, bowls and bingo.
the
exchange rate and credit crunch would not be indicative of their current expansion plans, these would have been costed a year or two back. - I would just like to
add, it would be nice to get in from all that snow and the cold and there you see it a very nice open fire with "YES"Coal on it just like it was 20years ago and that coal came from out own mines.
Vic M - Howard I didnt realise the camps you mention there were still thriving with allsorts of events and even off season too. I thought it was all the
'faded grandeur' of years gone by with people living on memories. Thats good to hear though and of course they will certainly be encouraged by the upsurge in recent home based bookings and if it brings lots of jobs then great stuff.
Any job is a good job in these dark times. - Congratulations on raising £2,500! A staggering amount, Great News for the Dover RNLI, nine hours of rowing in the freezing
conditions but certainly well worth the effort! Well Done to all involved! - Great News there for the RNLI, a nice tidy sum of money raised for such a
worthy cause, Well Done everyone! - That's a Great picture of the crew and the RNLI volunteers who give all their time willingly and Congratulations in raising such a tremendous
amount of much needed cash.
A sterling effort on such a cold January saturday morning. Well Done! - Yes thats a great amount of money raised. £2500 is a staggering
sum particularly in a deep recession with people worried about their jobs and income. So it goes to show how highly thought of the RNLI is...if ordinary people in the street can fork out so much.
There are also very good comments
in the Members Club thread called.."Weathergirl joins Lifeboat..." - It good to see that the man and woman in the street managed to donate money for such a worthy cause in
these difficult times. Well Done Dover and of course the RNLI. - Of course on this
ocassion Barryw wiull forget the tories do just the same.
As for Roger looking at his comments I expect nowt else from him.
On Gwyn hes easy to get hold of in a number of ways, plus he has a manned office in Commbe
valley.
He holds weekly surgeries, and attends many events locsaklly and involved in communities.
So lets not knock the boyo, I don't always see eye to eye with him, but i recall and cant forgive or forget how thre
tories when they let interest rates shoot sky high and encouraged it, i nearly lost my home!!!
So whilst Gwyn may not be perfect(who is)
we need him returned
and im sure he will
be - She is a stunner as you put it when I was a young man and singing the sopranos did not look like the ones we have today.
I am going to try and go to that concert , but
can not book up yet I do not know if and when I can return to work.
Vic M - lost me there keith, this thread is about the lifeboat
people mainly.
all very non political posts. - Howard you are so right, how dare this person bring his stupid political rantings onto this lovely column. He
sounds like a very bitter person who likes to moan all the time.
Yes our lifeboat girls and boys did great - what a wonderful thing to do! Unfortunately I was out of the country when this took place but I intend to donate some money
to the lifeboat fund anyway. Also what a lovely girl Nazaneen is - well done to her for helping those wonderful lifeboat people. Where would we all be without our lifeboats - and indeed the Coastguard men and women too. If you have ever
been involved in any type of boating or water sport then you know that without them all life at sea would be so dangerous. Keep up the good work guys and well done to you all. - This definitely looks like a good concert at The Marlowe and very
reasonably priced. I love the film theme and have heard Juliet sing before. She's not just a pretty face, she has a great voice too, an excellent performer. - I thought I would get in early to wish all romantics a Happy Valentines Day for Saturday as we have an abundance of romantic forumite couples out there. You never know I may be whisked off somewhere romantic myself, lets hope
its not a cruise on the Balmoral as if memory serves me right its due in on that day lol! - you never know collette, barry may whisk you off to the family
pile in scotland.
a word to the wise here though, head scarves, baggy cardigans and green wellies are "de rigeur" for the country set at this time of year.
best to leave the prada stuff at home. - Blast, Howard, I'll have my maid repack, I had rather envisaged a romantic Valentines weekend drenched in Prada, sipping pink
champagne on ones yacht in Monaco. lol! - Aaah! Is romance dead in Dover? Two days to go to the big romantic occasion and we havent heard a smidgen about
romance.
Maybe the cold weather has cooled our passions?
Maybe the recession has bitten into our budget for romantic dinners?
I dont know.... - valentines day
has been cancelled due to the lack of intrest - Each day is Valentines day for Lesley and myself.For the past 27years.
king VIC - While Im not sure if Wetherspoons would make the most ideal Valentines Day destination for the romantic couple... its almost certainly the most
affordable. Ive had a mailing through on the subject from their central office...they are offering Steak Dinner for TWO, and yes thats right for TWO, and a bottle of wine all for £14.99.
Ive many times spent more than that on wine
alone and never ever had the dinner included...and then went on to get a second bottle. So there you are, romantic couples currently feeling the economic pinch need not stay indoors looking at the wallpaper.
I dont know what the
quality is like, I really must try it sometime soon to determin this aspect, but alas alas not for valentines day this time as Ive run out of willing females !!lol - wetherspoons would be the last place i would go for a romantic night out.
- I agree Weatherspoons is not a romantic setting, but that's still great value, you can save the romance till you get home I guess.
The 3 places I promoted via emails and
could all be "Romantic", were the Ramada at Whitfield, Hubert House Bistro at the bottom of Castle Hill Road and Crabble Corn Mill, but why just two, why no go with a group of friends and make it a great fun evening too.
If you
fancy something different, try Blakes of Dover in Castle Street, they're offering a romantic "Brunch" - 10.00 to 2pm; then you can stay in the warm in the evening and be romantic.
All of them are great
venues.
Roger - Why go out Roger? Surely it is more romanitic on your own - you don't need a gang, don't need to count the drinks as
you won't be driving or wait too long for a waiter to bring the next course and can have the trimmings that you you like and not what someone else thinks you want.
Arn't you going to don the apron and cook a lovely meal for Jean
this evening? I'm sure she would love to sit with a glass of something, possibly a Kier Royale, eagerly waiting the surprises that you are
preparing.
Soft music to your taste playing in the background with a soft candlelit
atmosphere, possibly even slightly perfumed and the table layed with your finest on display.
A beautifully prepared seafood and small salad entre with a couple of king Prawns as dressing.
A supurbe coq-au-vin or similar as the
main course, all finely flavoured with some supurbe wine to suit.
A home made very light sorbet or ice cream based dessert,
Ending with her favouite fresh coffee.
Then she can relax and put herr feet up with a nice glass of
cognac in a leisurely way while you prepare for the next phase of the evening..............
the washing up.
Have a good one everybody and if you are going out - drive carefully. - Hey Roger - I've just read my comments below - if you do do as I suggest - have you got room for me too?????
- I am hearing that the A20 - Dover bound - is closed between Court Wood and the York Street roundabout owing to an accident.
It has apparently been closed since about 0430 this morning making it sound like something
serious - let's all hope that no one is seriously injured. - The details can be found on www.kentonline.co.uk
- Lovely photo of Colette and Roger there :)
- Nice to see Roger getting into the spirit of the thing and pinching Colette's bottom. Ooh-la-la! Think you
will find that it is the Italians who go in for that Rog, not the French. You were in Boulogne, not Bologna. Not to worry, easy mistake. - Pinch her bottom ? pinch her
bottom, never in a million years !! Lovely though her bottom is, Barry took the photo and I understand Colette has a hefty whack.
My hand was actually on Colette's shoulder.
A great day was had by all and well written
about, by Colette.
Much success to LD Lines - but they should change the livery of the ship(s). to read LD Lines.
Roger - spotted
that myself.
roger is not very subtle about it, is he? - It was a great pleasure to be on LD Lines on Thursday, marvellous to see this new ship in Dover with a
new route to Boulogne. A Great service, hope lots of people will use it now. I for one am looking forward to when it takes foot passengers which will make for an easy and enjoyable day out to Boulogne. - Just tuned in after a hard days work and was delighted to see this report and pictures on LD Lines launch service to Boulogne. After losing one service its great to see that another
company has taken up the mantle and is now extending its remit to Dieppe as well, which is Fantastic news for Dover and France. I can't wait to try out both routes which will be soon. - Yes its great
to see this happening. I wasnt on the ship as was unavailable but have seen it a number of times now rolling by my rear window. Its compact and sleek and should do the job very well. As Roger says it does not have LD Lines emblazoned on
it but has www.transmancheferries.com, and is a distinctive mustard colour. There will be more pictures of the ship itself in due course on doverforum. - Yes, I
believe they are currently in discussion with Transmancheferries about the livery of LD Lines, perhaps the earlier launch date is the reason that the livery hadn't been finalised. A lot of people I know have used the service this
weekend as it is half-term, so, it was good timing. - This is Great news, delighted to see that Dover has got a ferry service back to Boulogne, I will be
taking my grandchildren back to see the sealife centre in the coming week for a lovely half-term treat. - looking forward to my moules/frites in boulogne
- I am
thrilled to see that Dover - Boulogne is back on schedule, I for one will also be taking trips there to sample the fine cuisine. Good report and pictures Doverforum, Well Done! - Take a look at Ed Connell's very informative posting on the LD Lines thread on the Letters page in Members Club.
- I understand (but please don't quote me) that
Nausicaa are currently offering 2 4 1 on entry, so a good time to go.
Roger - roger
i mentioned that on another thread.
their full price
is not bad either, a lot less than the london aquarium, though not such a bargain at present with the exchange rate.
i believe that the 2 for 1 is aimed at the UK half term market.
sounds to me like their business leaders
have put their heads together and looked outwards. - They probably have Howard; about time our's did too - for the retail businesses: shops, pubs, cafe's,
restaurants and historic sites and attractions.
Roger - I'm glad I made it this year, I drove back from London like a 'Bat outa Hell' obviously keeping within the speed
restrictions, as I didn't want to miss the 2009 Dover Film Festival and it was worth it. It was so good to see all the happy smiling faces at events staged in Dover over the last year. Well Done to Mike McFarnell and everyone else
involved, an enjoyable and well presented evening.
- Don't forget that scrummy bar of Dairy Milk Collette lololol luff Mand xx
- Ah! yes, I can confirm that yummy carnie mummy does a great line in yummy scrummy bars of chocolate dairy milk, thanks Mandie you never fail to please
x - At the recent
Street Scene/Neighbourhood Forum gathering at Maison Dieu House, one of the topics mentioned was the abandoned shops and how bad they looked. Well thats true.. in most cases they look just awful, a fact we have spoken about on Doverforum
before. I dont know if its too early days for Street Scene to do anything about it, but we really need to keep the closures in good nick.
There are many closures...some due to recession and some are just inevitable...but the
comfort feelgood factor is poor if you are shopping in Dover right now because everwhere you look there are abandoned shops all around you. Already some of the newly abandoned ones are beginning to look badly delapidated. We need to keep
the abandoned shops looking as good as possible otherwise it will hurt the few left open. - It would not cost much to give a bit of colour and interest to closed
shops - some paint and some goodwill, even make it into a school project for artwork. Closed shops are an eyesore unless we make them otherwise - can someone who is paid to act on our behalf not be a little creative?
- The same is happening in Deal high street, good idea to get school children, and youth involved, in smartening up their own high street, in the name of art of course.
Might give them something to do and be proud of. - i was down that way yesterday never really noticed that the shop was closed or not.
- I think you will
find that these 2 shops were owned by the same person,the first shut a while ago and then it reopened and moved under a different name but by the same person - did not the same
individual run one of them as a poundshop previously? - These two closed shops and all the others, need "decorating"; decorating with artwork. I have already spoken
to an arts-group - the one on the first floor at the Charlton Centre and they are very keen to start.
One of the problems is ownership and whether the Landlord will allow access to their property for this artwork to be
done.
Other Towns have overcome this problem, but until there's a "body" looking after Dover, no, or not much real progress can be made.
I have submitted a paper with 21 areas of responsibility on it, including this very
problem - closed shops, to Dover Town Council, the District Council and the (Dover) Chamber of Commerce.
I meant to send it to you PaulB - I'll do that when I come out of the Forum.
Roger - Roger I have now seen your document, your proposal, and very thorough it is too covering a wide range of essentials for Dover.
You suggest ways to advance by thoughtful marketing and promotion, by making hugely common sense moves forward, and by asking businesses what they want and need, and listening to their responses. Its a very very thorough document so
well done to you.
When I see it laid out like that though it is a big job, so will surely need funding. What's needed is a variation on the Town Centre Manager position, a modern version of it.
The essential core problem,
the real flaw, with the previous Town Centre Manager position was that they had to forever concentrate on raising funds to keep themselves going. A huge flaw that. Their eye was on the wrong ball. But it was a flaw thrust upon
them. - It a shame to see two party premises and in such close proximity too, shut up shop, but with the credit crunch upon us one of the first things to go is fun, hopefully the
good times will be back with us soon. It is a great idea to get the arts and schools involved to try and brighten up the empty premises before they become an eyesore. - It
is sad to see the state of Dovers High Street with all the empty shops, surley a paint job isn't going to hide the fact that they are still shut!!! it seems a waste of time and energy to get kids to paint them when what is need is a
cash injection and some variety of shops. I can't remember the last time i was actually in the Dover high street, if you want mobile phones or the likes it is the place to go but that is it. Folkestone with its all singing and all
dancing Asda and other shops is ideal to attract the customers, somewhere to get groceries and clothes and a coffee at the end of it. VARIETY it the key to Dovers problems and a good spruce up. If looks like the poor relation compared to
other towns and it is a shame. Listen to what the Dover people want and need in there high street is is certainly not mobile phones shops and charity shops all over the place. Bring back Dover we need it. - The two party shops are/were owned by the same guy.
- jasper makes a valid comment about asda in folkestone.
there
are so many shops that have sprung up around it now.
folkestone has never been so busy in my memory.
i would imagine that they are getting people now that previously would have travelled to canterbury. - Jasper you are absolutely right in that decorating the shops is well short of the ideal. We dont want shops closing and we need new life to come here to reflower the
situation as it were. The real problems is this though, there are 120 businesses closing a day, yes a day, in the UK right now. This is business failure of catastrophic proportions, not just the pubs as is often highlighted, but allsorts
of businesses right across the board, and all this as a direct consequence of this horrible recession.
In these circumstances I think the best option we can look for right now is to at least clean the abandoned frontages up, so
that the whole town doesnt look derelict. If it did, it would surely put off any chance we have of new businesses starting up. They wont start up if an area looks rundown.
Howard yes Ive always looked at the arrival of ASDA in
that light, ie that the company will act as a magnet to bring shoppers and money into the town from a wider area. Ive never really understood why there is opposition to their plan. I mean to say..its actually somebody who wants to open
up a large business and invest here. What can be wrong with that! - Enniscorthy used to be and still is, to a large extent, a pretty river town, my home town, in Ireland. It
has a wealth of history, some lovely architecture (sadly some of it now gone), a real foundation in Irish folklore, and some breathtaking riverscapes and landscapes. Some supermarkets sprang up and, yes, they did breed some shops nearby,
but the novelty faded off and left the ugly shops surrounding the ugly supermarkets, and trade taken away from the heart of the town almost irreversibly. It is still struggling to make good the damage that was done.
By the way,
if you are ever there, my Grandads puteen still is in the museum!!! - Thanks for that PaulB
Jasper, I agree that a lick of paint is not the cure for Dover's ills, but there are twenty other areas of
responsibility that need to be worked on.
From contacting companies that are not here, of what we are doing to support businesses that are here and encourage them to set up a business in Dover, to using enforcement to get
Landlords to tidy up their buildings.
From working with Business Link Kent on various business training needs to reassuring the current businesses that we are (now) working for them.
Brightening up the Town, including
flower beds all year round and smartening up the shops.
Just one or two of these won't make that much difference of course, but together, I believe they will make a big difference.
There's lots more besides the
above.
Roger - Hello Roger in principal i agree with what your saying its just a shame it is but a ripple in a ever larger tide. I do hope dover manages to pull itself up by its
socks and gets much needed life and money put into it. I love Dover but wasting the like of millions on a chair lift to Dover castle when the town is clearly on its knees doesnt seem right to me . Keep going everybody we can do
it. - Thanks Jasper
The cable car is an integral part of the big-picture, along with the Western Docks development, landbridge, DTIZ etc.
To my mind, our problem
is that there is no "body" looking after Dover and it's retail-type businesses. Deal and Walmer have one, Sandwich have one and I'm pretty sure that every Town across the country has one - but not Dover.
Town Centre Management
was a good body to do this, but had the wrong person in charge - every one says that now (but never when he was there) and he brought that that body to its knees and it folded.
It's almost as if everyone is frightened to start
up another such body; the view amongst our Leaders, is that such a body should be run under the control or auspices of the Dover and District Chamber of Commerce, but this is not a view shared by many local businesses - unless Dover Town
retailers get the lions share of the time and effort.
Roger - I agree Roger, your are right we do need a body or something of the likes to
sort this town out. Lets hope more people jump on this bandwagon and make the KCC and Commerce sit up and take notice of the plight of the Dover people and the town.
I can give them a list now as long as my arm to get things started
HAHA - roger, forget the cable car a total waste of time,the roman painted house would be a better benifacter of the money.
- Well I just had to try out the new facility. This new addition should make it a great deal easier for people to contribute. It looks great. Well done to Chris Tutthill of
Whyte Studio, my ace man on all things technical. - Well Done Chris! Looking Great PaulB :)
- who has heard the rumour going around about our
keith (sansum )planning to renew his vows to his wife? - max
the cable car is the result of match funding with english heritage. - howard,the cable is a waste of space full stop.
- Max it might be an idea if you tell us WHY you think its
a waste of space...it would be good to hear your take on it. While it may not mean much to us dovorians living here it might attract visitors in to the town willing to spend money. Every town needs a few attractions of
note.
Bluebell that could be a romantic occasion...maybe Keith might like to confirm, although it does sound a private matter though really. Good luck to them if they are. - paulb,the geografacl location,salt in the air and high winds.how many days of lost earnings cost to the people running it.maybe a better bus system combining dover castle,roman painted house and the western heights in the town
area,expanding to other gems out river way.thats why im against the cable car idea. - max
i do not see a connection between the bus system that you speak of and the
cable car. - howard,easy dont put in the cable car but spend the money a bus servise instead.
- Max
Your passing comment about a bus system is one that I feel is very important to Dover's tourism - a site-seeing your bus is what's needed; visiting all the historic sites and attractions, including Crabble Corn
Mill and the Transport Museum; it could also stop at the Ramada to pick up and drop of those who want to call in there for a coffee or whatever; the cruise terminals on cruise ship days. Other stops too of course would be made, including
the Market Square, the Castle and Langdon Cliffs.
It could be a good route and valuable source of visitors and income for our hard-up attractions.
Roger - At least buses would be a weather resistant (apart from when we have a world stopping 2mm of snow!) and routes could be varied around
events etc. A cable car is too static, isn't archaeological sensitive now will it be financially viable (I see it closed most of the winter and closed in even slight winds). - max
it is not our money being spent on the cable car.
roger
i understood that the sight seeing bus was making a comeback.
surely if a new itinerary was proposed to them it would be in theor interests
tolisten? - im sure it can be redricted to a better cause.
- They have the feasibility study to do
first, and if they want to base the cable car where they say they want to in the Castle then there will be a fight on their hands.... - pw,i think we know the answer without wasting
money for that kind of thing,its called common sence. - max
how do you define common sense?
do you think that english heritage should subsidise a bus route in
dover? - howard,in a word yes.
- Max
The money for the sky lift is coming from English heritage, once it is applied for, it cannot be redirected to another project.
English heritage would not give money for a bus route. I think the sky lift is part of a bigger picture for Dover, only time will tell, if it does go ahead.
Having a bus going to all places mentioned is a great idea, and one that DDC
and DTC should look into, maybe the answer is the tourist bus?
- gary,i would rather have the money spent on a bus route to other eh sites.if eh cant be botherd
to promote there other sites then they are short sited and ignorent. - Read all about it Dover Express today .Picture of work that has been carried out in Kings Street .Slowly we
get there .A few compliments maybe .?? - Being married to a sikh, and the joke obviously reffering to one, I wasn't sure what to make of it really. To be fair my hubby
wasn't impressed, but he also understood that Roger wasn't the person who made up the joke.
However knowing Roger, he ceratinly would not have posted it with the intention of it causing offence. I was a little uncomfortable
about it, but also know that Roger is not racist in any way. He has always been very pleasent to both my hubby (who doesn't wear the traditional sikh turban, although his father does) and myself and children. I think if he were a
racist, he wouldn't be.
Like you say Paul it was purely a joke, and wasn't said to cause offence.
- Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear
- it's a joke people, get over it !! - it seems that this so called joke has been blown apart by some pc nutter,all i can with out being rude is to grow and get a life because you
are a long time dead. - I believe this is a total over reaction as usual by the powers that be, sadly most white british do think this joke is a true ideal of Britain today. Many
feel we are like the joke says, working long hours for little or no reward. The people that dont seem to get it handed to them on a plate.
The joke was placed on a joke page so it should be taken in that context, has England gone
mad ???? i think so. Where is the humor in this country when everyone takes offence at the slighest thing. - I thought it was so good and true that it is now winging its way
around the world!! - I would like to say sorry to all the Irish, Welsh, Scottish, Australian, Essex girls, blond girls, little Mary’s, little
Tommy’s, Ladies and of course the men that I may have upset with jokes I have posted
over the years.
Roger's Joke was a joke, nothing more and yes some may feel offended, but come on Roger apologised, accept it and move
on.
I do not always agree with Rogers politics but if I were in his constituency I would vote for him. He works hard for this Town and no silly joke should make him stand down from that work.
The BBC announced an all Black,
East Enders the other night, now they have had lots of all White episodes did they announce them prior to the show of course not. Had they of done I bet the outcry would have been enormous.
Now there was this Englishman, Scotsman
and Irishman on a boat when this bottle bobbed by………… oh don’t go there Harry
- having just read rogers joke, i just want to say the people who complained are obviously the people who are unaffected by the state of our country, so lucky them. We did
have a little chuckle to it ourselves - just seen that new farm shop in cherrytree ave looks well nice looks like could be a nice shop at last some
one bring somethink good to poor ole dover !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - No longer a member of your forum, Paul, but we both fully support what you say about Roger's contribution to
the town and to the Forum. And what about free speech? Surely we are all free to say things which might offend others, as long as the views expressed are honestly held and are not likely to incite violence. In my view any jokes which
poke fun at the PC brigade and the determination of the current government to degrade British values are fair game. And there are people across all political parties who lament the discrimination against British people demonstrated by
both central and local government under this administration. Leave the joke up on the forum. Perhaps delete the references to manjams and turbans as they are a little racially specific. But if politicians can't speak their minds both in
private and in public we shall all be the poorer. - the view of the locals:
A local man was walking through Dover town centre dispairing at the
demise of the area when he kicked a discarded coke can. There was a puff of smoke and a genie appeared.
'My good man,' the genie said, 'I've been told to grant you three wishes, since you live in Dover.'
The man told
the genie: 'Well, I would like a MENSA level IQ so that I could devise a way of regenerating the town.”
The genie looked at the man and -- PING ! -- He had an IQ of over 132.
'What else?' asked the genie, 'two more to
go'
The local man became bolder
'I would like a substantial amount of money to be able to carry out these regeneration plans.”
PING! – The genie produced a suitcase full of £50 notes for the man.
'One more
wish,' said the genie.
'Yes, one more wish.
“I want to be a Dover District Councillor so that I can put these plans into action.”
PING! – The man was transformed, he suddenly had s*** for brains, he kept the money
and the town continued to decline.
- I thought that some of the terms in the joke were a bit, well, tasteless, but quite a few jokes are; the
reaction does seem rather extreme.
The real point is that, if I hadn't heard about it on SouthEast Today, I wouldn't have logged on to have a look-see what all the fuss was about. I would think that quite a few other people have,
so all that the complainant has achieved, is to give the thing a wider circulation. I wonder if there will be any complaints about localview's version? - Re: Roger Walkden's joke
What a
good joke - I laughed!
How ridiculous that the 'PC thought police' have chosen to call it offensive and racist.
I heard the interview on Radio Kent earlier and I must say that Roger kept his cool in the face of unnecessarily
aggressive and argumentative radio presenters.
Well done Roger! - I am offended, The joke suggested that a typical British person wears a
baseball cap. I feel as a British person that my sensitivities have not been respected ;-) - It seems many people nowadays want to be offended on behalf of other
groups, particularly on racial grounds. It is this vicarious sensitivity which is at the heart of PC behaviour. I call it racistism. A while ago the town council in High Wycombe (a town with a large ethnic population) banned Christmas
carols in the town so as not to offend Moslems. The only people to be genuinely offended (as opposed to irritated) were the town's Asian population, who forced the council to back down, out of respect for the town's Christian-heritage
majority. And anyone with an IQ bigger than their boot size would realise that Roger's joke was a dig at government policy, not at immigrants themselves.
If the person who started this ridiculous witch-hunt against Roger would
care to stand up and be publicly identified, I will eat my hat if he turns out to be an immigrant. More likely he will turn out to be one of Roger's political opponents. I think we should try and 'out' this person so that he/she can
engage in a rational debate with Roger rather than subject him to a trial by media. Any suggestions as to who this person might be? - I heard about this after bumping
into a couple of ne'er do wells in town this morning, so thought I would check it out. Anyone who knows Roger will attest to his heart of gold, and I'm guessing that he'd be mortified if he felt a simple joke would cause offence to
anyone. It's another example of the PC brigade finding a reason to haul a decent human being over the coals; I, for one, am sick and tired of having to apologise for being a WASP. This kind of arrant nonsense is ruining our country;
if we could just accept one another for who and what we are and stop trying to find fault in everything we say and do, perhaps we could concentrate more on trying to put our town right, and the economy in general.
I'm an ex-
member of this forum but thought I just had to agree with Paul in an open way and show my total support for a good chap. Vive Le Walkden! - What
can I say? I had never heard of the Dover Forum until reading about a contributor's joke - now you are achieving world-wide (or nearabouts) fame. I am White, British female, and have personal experience of financial hardship with family
members made redundant, facing reposession and worse, and trying to survive on a paltry jobseekers allowance. However, I am pleased to be living in what I would hope to be a tolerant, diverse society - a country that, throughout time,
has always embraced people from different cultures and faiths. Jokes such as that posted on your website have no place in our society. They are offensive to the people that are being laughed at. They only serve to instil further racist
ideas in those who need to be enlightened. Dover Forum should think carefully before they publish offensive articles.
- Rogers joke? Not so much a
joke as just rude to English people and visitors to our great Country, why didn't chose an Australian or an American as the target, far more visitors from these countries to our shores, rather he reinforced a sterotype.
Racist?
most likely, rather though he is just unthinking and failed to understand the UK imigration rules. You try and get in to Britain without a visa or means to support yourself, then try and get access to the public funds. If in doubt go
to the UK Border Force web site.
Roger strikes me as a typical working class Tory, poor lad.
An apology wouldn't go admiss. - Hello People. I live in Dover, and am married to a sikh, to which the JOKE makes referance about . I also know Roger.
No disrespect to either poster below Pj or Adrain, but Roger is a good man.
Roger did not make up
the JOKE, he just relayed it in a JOKE section on this forum.
Now come on, my husband is a sikh, and really doesn't understand why so much fuss is being made over this.
As I said I wasn't sure about it initially, but I know
Roger, and know that he is no way a rascist, and I will not have him bullied.
The whole thing has been blown way out of proportion.
ask yourself this question. have you ever told an irish joke???
have you ever told an Essex girl joke??
ever laughed at a joke that was sent to your mobile that wasn't politically correct??
answer no, and I say you are a liar.
Leave our Roger alone, he owes no
apology, not to you, not to anyone, and I have told him so.
BACK OFF AND LEAVE HIM ALONE!!! - Well said Mandie.
- this is an open page and paul asked for opinions from people on the joke.
we can hardly tell people to back off if their view is different to ours.
- pj Webster has missed the point (see my previous post). The joke does not laugh at immigrants - it laughs at the stupidity of us British who allow our government to provide
lavish benefits to incomers while denying them to people like her and her family. In other words we are laughing at ourselves. - Roger's joke is funny. It is also a very sad -
even tragic - pointer at how our society is really feeling these days. For years now there has been nothing to foster a positive view of being English. We have been aggressively forced into a narrow-minded "right-thinking" position
where the very worst crime one can commit is the crime of offending someone. It's like we're ruled by "mind police" - you make even the most harmless of jokes and everyone goes crazy like an angry mob, igniting the fury of the local
media and forcing the politically correct to crawl out of their righteous holes to pass judgement. Why? Because the joke contains an ethnic element, a political view, or a criticism of an established religion?
Roger's joke was
really funny and not offensive in the slightest. Sadly, our society has become hypersensitive to such humour. The joke was not hostile to any race (the sort of joke that would normally be called "racist"), it merely pokes fun at an
unfortunate English perception.
I am convinced that this mind-controlling politically-correct nightmare era is a passing phase that we will one day leave behind and view with suspicion in a few generations time. But for us living
in it, I find it a real shame and a hideous crime how our free speech has been degraded to such an extent that nobody dare speak anymore, so much so that even our famous sense of humour has rotted away and become a cynical and scathing
type of bitterness.
What even happened to the old saying "nobody has the right not to be offended"? I'll leave you with a small quote from Benjamin Franklin which I hope makes a lot of you think. It's like the printer is no
longer printing anything and that isn't good...
"If all printers were determined not to print anything till they were sure it would offend nobody, there would be very little
printed."
- Dover Express would be out of business !!
- WHERE HAS FREE SPEECH GONE, HAVE YOU HEARD THE ONE ABOUT
" THE ENGLISHMAN, THE SCOTSMAN & THE IRISHMAN"????. THESE POLITICALLY CORRECT PEOPLE ARE THE ONES THAT NEED TO STOP STIRRING IT UP, THEY HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO. THE FACT THAT THE MEDIA CHOSE TO CONTINUALLY RUN THE STORY
EXAGERATED THE TRIVIA. GOOD FOR YOU ROGER,KEEP YOUR FEET IN THE REAL WORLD AND IGNORE THESE SAD SAD PEOPLE. - Note to Roger (who is in hot water)
your joke made me laugh out loud!
My parents are Asian and I'm a born & bred Londoner and I can actually see where you're coming from.
Remember this saying "Those that care don't matter, those that matter don't care!"
(Well as long as the line isn't crossed.)
All the best,
Sara Raphael - Very funny joke!, not racial but factual!. What race was deemed
to be victimised here?, or has racism become generalised, which is possible given only whites are racist, as qualified by Brown, the Bristol councillor recent statement, "How can I be racist, I am black!". - Three people go into a place, don't say or do anything then leave.
Is this what the PC police would consider acceptable as a joke?
Come on people-relax and see the funny
side of life. - Some day soon, the backlash against these politically correct idiots will underline just how misguided they have behaved, that day cannot come
quick enough!!! - This is all rather persoanal with many of the people supporting Roger in turn being rude to other commentators exersing their free speach, most odd. Phillip
of Deal is a classic example.
If you read the comments by Rogers opponents I would suggest rightly or wrongly they have refrained from makeing personal comments.
The debate is about is the joke sutable for 21st century
Britain, you can see two distinct positions, you could offer the view those supporting Roger feel threaterned by the anger and the number of their responses. Those critising may well be challenging Roger to see how he reacts. - I read somewhere on the Internet that Roger has been asked to resign over this joke. Roger - DON'T!!! Stand your ground. Your harmless, wholly unracist and very funny joke has
now placed you in a position where you can stand up for "the rest of us" - the normal everyday people who are sick to the back teeth of all this politically correct claptrap and Orwellian control. I noticed on this thread that many
people of ethnic origin, or with ethnic relatives, found your joke funny and inoffensive.
This whole thing reminds me of the BBC banning the word "faggot" from the classic Pogues song "Fairytale of New York" back in Xmas 2007.
Why? Because some politically correct stuck up moron at Radio 1 decided it would offend gays. Amid the backlash was a huge outcry by the gay community stating with utter clarity that this song did NOT offend them. Not one gay or straight
person complained, except in the sense that Radio 1 had ruined a great song.
Roger's joke has only offended self-righteous non-Asian middle class white do-gooders who think they can censor and judge on behalf of minorities.
Political correctness breeds an almost unbelievable sense of arrogance and I dare say even subjects its victims to some sort of "god complex". The PC brigade as we call them think for the rest of us thickos, correcting our racism,
sexism, and whatever other -isms they can dream up in their sleep.
This whole sorry episode has merely highlighted the utter stupidity of our society under the spell of political correctness. Roger, you have my FULL
support. - Well said local-man - I agree with everything you've said - nice posting.
Am I being thick or is "magic"s posting a little strange? Sorry M - don't
understand that at all. Been having a few bevvies perchance?
You always get one .............!!! - Yes local woman, I must agree with you there re the post by Magic.
I've read it several times and it doesn't make any sense to me either, but I suspect the boss of the forum may not be amused, we shall see.
Yes Local_man, I agree with your post 100%.
And I too think Cllr Walkden should
stay, he has done nothing at all wrong, poor man. - I didnt find the " JOKE" funny in the least,
nor racist.
Leave the poor guy alone
- Roger, don't worry about it. The minute you let the illiberal liberals get you down you may as well buy a bungalow and sit the evenings out drinking complan or hot
cocoa. Oh my word I've just been bungalowist how can I possibly repent?
Really though it'll pass and will all be forgotten. Carry on doing what you do best and that is being you. Don't pay any attention to the righteous ones. They
shall not inherit the Earth.
After all in a hundred years time who is really going to care? - Roger has got a heart of gold and has more involvement in Dover than
most.He has a deep love of his home and the people who live here.The joke was not a good idea for a man of his position.It was full of dated stereotypes and of course can not be seen to be condoned by any political party.Long gone are
these types of jokes but he is a different generation.He did not think where maybe he should have, has made a mistake but where is our compassionate society? When you weigh up what he gives freely to Dover and this episode lets not start
a witch hunt. - Ah yes I had to remove Magic's post as it mentioned a business and some peoples names, from another town in Kent, but in race accusory terms. Thanks Howard for
keeping an eye on things always good to have you there.
We cant obviously carry such items for legal reasons.
- Mildly Contraversial. Big Deal. In the
21st Century, nobody can stop us thinking it but they want to stop us saying it. I would say that with all the political correctness being handed down with the namby pamby idiots in Government, they are creating racial issues and have
taken away "free speech". I say lets tell them to shove their political correctness where the sun doesn't shine and carry on with speaking freely. I'm sure the occupants of all other countries have jokes about the Brits, and we
dont whinge and moan. If we do moan, we are not taken seriously because White Brits do not suffer from racial issues or do they? - I for one support Cllr Walkden completely.
England is being ruined by political correctness and it is like having the "thought police" here already. I thought this was a free country, now we are being told what we can laugh at.
Instead of complaining it would be nice to
see more people supporting Cllr Walkden in his untiring work for Dover and all of us. - Well in the greater scheme of things I can
quite understand why the left is getting into a lather about issues such as this. They serve as a fantastic distraction to what is really going on in the World. On the same day that the right thinking elite (and that applies to all three
political parties)are scolding the mass of this country for bad thoughts and the type of humour it finds funny, it's quite incredible that the Government have announced their ambition to change the law so that they may block the pension
of Sir Fred Goodwin. So they intend using the power of the state in order to apply a tool in order to take away something this Man is legally entitled to. I'm no fan of the Man but the law is the law. Where will that leave the rest of
us eh?
So come on People let's let this matter die a natural and concentrate on what's really going on. - i have noticed that we are getting people from the local area posting on the rogergate affair.
why not contact the editor and ask to become a forum
member.
new views on our town and surrounds are always welcome. - This episode is sad on many levels, one being that challenging racism is now seen as Political Correctness gone Mad. It isn't. I support Roger in his freedom of
speech, even if I think the joke was poorly judged. But to rant, as people have done on here, about political correctness being wrong simply demonstrates their poor understanding of what it means. Roger is, as far as I can see, a decent
and committed fella who works hard for Dover. we have disagreed on the forum a few times, but amicably and with discussion and debate. This episode has reduced the opportunity for proper disagreement: if I disagree with Roger or anyone
else now about race, gender, or other issues hijacked by those eager to pounce on Political Correctness, then I will attract a wall of "PC gone mad" type postings. Freedom of Speech has suffered for this. it is a sad day.
- This is nothing to do with 'political correctness gone mad' Bern, PC is mad and bad.
What we have here is a case of the mad and bad taken to its extremes to brand and
vilify a decent individual. This is not uncommon, the thought police are out there out to jump on anyone. I heard over the weekend about a prominent Town Councillor who made a funny and harmless remark recently and who was 'jumped'
on by two pc extremists over it. - A few people taking extreme views does not make challenging racism a bad thing. That's a bit like saying
we should never challenge child abuse because there aren't that many paedophiles. Racism, I think you might agree, is bad, and we need to be free to challenge it - we should not be intimidated by those who see any challenge as PC gone
Mad, or who take the opportunity to repress the challenges by implying that anyone who challnges must be a wooly, bearded, idiot leftie. If it is PC to challenge racism then I am glad to be PC. If anyone chooses to wilfully misunderstand
what that means that is their choice. - With you Bern.
Methinks we need a disaggregation. "pc" basically seeks to minimise offence and maximise opportunity. But, like
many words and terms; there are battles over its meaning, and those meanings have positive and pejorative connotations. It's also used as a tool in different ways - by some people cynically, by others as a useful critique, and so on.
It's not "pc" itself which is the problem; it's the uses to which it's put. Some of the ways perhaps are "mad and bad", as BarryW puts it - but at the same time babies and bathwater come to mind. "pc" shouldn't be
chucked out because of ill usage, just as much as we don't chuck out scientific thinking because it's led to some things that could be seen as hideous. - No
problem about challenging rascism, Bern/Maggie but you have to make sure it is real rascism that is being challenged and not harmless humour for instance.
The best recruiting sergeants the BNP have are those who seek to interpret
anything that offends their left wing principals as offensive. There is the Roger example and you can add to that the Prince Harry affair, the golliwog issue and so much more.
What used to be called simply manners should be
enough for anyone, not dictats by the pc thought police. - I agree with what Graham Hopkins says, "England is being ruined by political
correctness and it is like having the "thought police" here already".
Roger is a wonderful man, I am proud to call him a friend. - Now for something
completely different.
Boys Grammar put on their Spring Show in the Roundhouse this weekend. As the mother of the lead actor, Ben, I can't say too much with being accused of bias, but perhaps you'd like to read the totally
independent review that was posted on the online mag, The Hawkinge Gazette and Channel Coast News:
www.localrags.co.uk/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=5796 - Sorry,
that should have read 'without being accused of bias' - Exactly, Barry. One needs discrimination when challenging discrimination!
- Roger, I think you need temporarily to keep your head down and let things gradually revert to the Status Quo. You can see from the
majority of the postings on this forum, and the private messages of support you have received from many people, that you are loved and valued by the people of Dover. Don't let us down by resigning or stopping your work for the town over
a storm in a party-political teacup. Illegitimi non carborundum!
Kathryn also says she still loves you and is waiting for the next hug. Hope all is well with Jean.
By the way, I have been given (in confidence) a name for
the alleged sole complainant. I do not know the man personally but I am told that 1. he is definitely not an immigrant and 2. he is a member of the left wing of the Labour Party. If he doesn't 'fess up on the forum or in the press I
shall pass the name to Private Eye. - saw roger and jean in town today, both looking very jovial.
things seem back to normal again. - Thanks Peter - much appreciated and thank you Kathryn too.
Hopefully Howard, we are almost back to normal.
In fact I want to once again thank all of you for
your support, but I am asking that an end be brought to this.
I have discussed the issue with Marijke, she has advised me of certain things and we have now cleared the air; we must move on - for all our sakes, Marijke is a good
person.
I have received supportive emails from as far away as the Gold Coast in Australia and from people I worked with over 15 years ago; all cannot understand the spite of the complaining person and can't believe how this has
been blown out of all proportion.
Please Paulb, can we draw a line under this, it's run its course and serves no further purpose, in fact, it is in danger of being counter-productive.
Can you put a new front page up,
another subject for people to write about, one that will encourage wider interest, not just focus on the rights and wrongs of posting a joke about a Fairy offering 3 wishes and the perception of Government policy on immigration.
With different eyes to the ones I posted the joke with, I feel the immigrant wasn't being lampooned, it was Government policy, or rather the perception of Government policy and if that perception is wrong, then the Government
should ensure that we fully understand what their policy is.
Thanks once again for all your support.
Roger - Well done, Roger, and
congratulations for your courtesy and your courage.
I'm glad you and Jean were okay in the town, and I'm glad to see you have had so much support. One good thing that has come out of this is that you know how well people
think of you.
It would be good if we could move on now, please. - Sorry Sue - but thanks Phil, for bringing a bit of humour back to the Forum. Very
clever too.
If that doesn't increase the "No's" nothing will !
Hope you're not offended Sue.
The local business think it will put off the shoppers from coming down to Cannon Street and the Market Square and keep
them up the other end of Town; perhaps they'll rediscover the Charlton Centre.
The pubs I'm sure think it's great for business, especially as it'll be on for a minimum of 16 hours a
day. - Phil - I laughed out loud, and I mean that affectionately, Sue!! Thank you!
- Nice one Phil and Sue!
- Ha Ha .I shall still vote against this TV screen .Should i say "Im not amused" Good job im not looking for a new man in my life .I would not employ Phil as my PR man .He could have given me red hair ??
Still back to
seriuos business today .Meeting people who are worse off than me - Glad you liked it - no offence intended Sue!
Roger, where is the evidence that it will be on
16hrs a day? Is this inside information that DDC are privy to and you have picked up, or is it your opinion, in which case your statement is little more than speculative alarmism?
The licence application states 7am to 11pm, but
as far as I understand it those are the hours it could potentially be on, rather akin to a pub licence. I believe the plan is to have it run for a few hours a day after the Olympics, reserving the extended hours for very special events.
There is a lot of half-truths and rumours floating around about the telly and it would be good if DDC could issue a clarifying statement about such matters.
In my opinion, a freebie like this that attracts trade and business into
town is a good thing, especially in the run down Market Square area. The advertising potential for local attractions, groups and events is tremendous, and it will stand us in very good stead for the Olympic torch. Something has got to
kick start the lower end of town, because despite what we keep being told, there are no signs of anything actually happening in the near future.
The thought that people will suddenly flock to the Charlton Centre if the telly is
not installed is, quite frankly, absurd. Sorry!
- Red hair Sue? Can be arranged! It was hard finding a picture of you. I only had two, and one was far too small! Any
future donations to my inbox much appreciated... - PaulB that made my morning, I laughed so much that I nearly cracked me ribs, the Matriach of Dover, our very own jovial Sue
Nicholas has taken it in good humour. I'm now having second thoughts about the screen lol!
Great cartoon Phil. - Oh,dear.
In PC terms the word "chav" is up
there with other racists names.
I hope there will not be a repeat of Roger's unfortunate slip up. - I looked up 'chav' to see if it had racist
connotations. Here is the best definition I could find:
"Chav
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Chav, Chava or Charva is a derogatory term applied to certain young people in the United Kingdom. The stereotypical
image of a chav is a white aggressive teen or young adult, of working class background, who wears branded sports and casual clothing, who often fights and engages in petty criminality, and is often assumed to be unemployed or in a low
paid job. The term may originate from the Romani language. In its English form, the term is generally derogative, and has appeared in mainstream dictionaries in 2005."
The word 'white' is in the definition. The term must
therefore definitely be considered racist, and thus deeply offensive to nearly 90% of this country's population. To whom should I complain? - What is it with Dovorians? We get
the possibility of something great for the town and all the nimby's come out and say no thanks. We must go ahead and embrace this wonderful project otherwise we will just wallow in the mire that the dunderheads are creating. Wake up
the residents of Market Square, you chose to live there knowing that it was the town centre. Just shut up or move elsewhere! - Thanks Christian
for those, erm, well thought out and considered comments. Good to see reasoned debate hasn't died out altogether. - Phil
From the Council papers I've read, it states a
minimum of 16 hours a day, doesn't say what time it's likely to start, just for that length of time. - great stuff phil, imagining taking on our suze when you
have only 10 mates with you.
susan
these people that are worse of than you?
were they better off before they elected you? - Dover Town Council
unanimously supported the screen at last nights public planning meeting. There were speakers for and against and the for won through. - that is good to hear, just a matter of the
district council rubber stamping it.
the town finally starts to move forward. - Howard - you make my day
sometimes!!!! - Move forward eh? So instead of doing something about the derelict shops in the area, or injecting something more dynamic into the square, this is the best they
could come up with - a television?
A television? What a joke. Dover must be desperate. So those in charge think that a big television will attract visitors and help with the sad decline of the town?
Sad, very
sad. - So - what are your realistic ideas, Binky? Considering the Telly is
free bar running costs........ - I'm surprised that the Ellie hasn't complained. Their customers will be about the only ones not able to see the screen!
- Small steps Blinky, it's a step forward not a destination. I've seen big TV's at various town centres over the years and they've always had a positive impact on the
community. - Small steps backwards in my view. I don't live in the square but I would be tempted to open my window and play the 1812 overture
continuously in protest. I'd be livid!
Am I missing something here but is this the height Dover has its sights set on in order to rejuvinate the town? Just because something is free doesn't mean the offer should be accepted or is
the old saying "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" the order of the day?
As for my realistic ideas, whether or not I have any is beside the point. If I don't have any ideas doesn't make this one a good one. Odd logic Bern I
must say.
Actually here's one for you. Take one of the windmills proposed to go up at Langdon and plonk it in the market square. I hear that windfarms are a great tourist attraction and should do our green credentials no end of
good. - a step forward is exactly what it is, the problem is there will be many people trying to put the mockers on this as they do anything new in our town.
- What other mockers have been put on the town and how does that relate to this stupid idea?
- I agree Howard, the
majority of people that live here seem to be against change, especially when its something new. - tony
since i have moved here, ever single thing proposed for the town has
been mocked and ridiculed.
binky
re; market square, i love the 1812 overture.
talking to a town councillor only yesterday, she pointed out that market square had been a hub of activity day and night for hundreds of years
with markets, fairs, entertainment and even some hard drinking.
only in recent years has it turned into this lifeless area.
the only real activity is when people come off of the cruise liners and take photos of the castle via the
fountain. - what horrer movie is showing here then.
- Binky - where does your aggression come
from? - As a business owner about 100 yards from the proposed screen, I have been watching this debate on both forums with interest. A lady whose flat overlooks the square has
been to see me to try to persuade me that I should write a letter of opposition to the council. However, after reading both sides of the argument, I am tending to think that we should give it a try. After all:
1. We do need
something more than there is now. If it doesn't work and costs too much to run then the powers that be will remove it quickly enough.
2. If properly managed, it will bring increased footfall into the town centre which would
eventually lead to increased spending in the town, in turn this would mean empty shops opening up again, more jobs, etc. Seems a good way to try to buck the recessionary trend, and the BBC/KCC are paying for it.
3. regarding the
noise issue- people who bought or rented flats overlooking Market Sq were surely not expecting to wake up one morning and see sheep grazing. It's a town centre for goodness' sake and a proper town centre is a buzzing, vibrant place,
which means a bit of noise.
Therefore, I say go for it. I do think that Pencester Gardens or the seafront would have been a better location but that is not on offer from those who are paying for
it.
PG.
- People are worried about the noise from the television, but there are cars that go about with their ghetto blasters booming out loud music, that are a lot
louder than the television will be, also people are saying where are we going to sit thousands of people in the square, you are not going to get thousands there in one go, two or three hundred maybe drifting through daily, businesses
will come, think positive,not negative thoughts, the bigger picture is fantastic
- "Binky - where does your aggression come from?"
.....the oddest comment in
this debate so far. Moi? Agressive? Je ne pas pense mon ami.
I can't imagine why you are so defensive after all I have only voiced my concerns regarding this thing. If you regard someone who happens to disagree with you as agressive
then that is up to you but readers to this forum will think otherwise my friend.
Peter mentioned various points. He said that we need something more than there is now - something? Anything? The fact is this television acts as an
instrument of the olympic authorites to say that they have fulfulled their remit to bring tht olympics to the provinces. It's a cheap way of doing it. Instead of really investing in sport in the community they give us a television.
Clever eh? We are the mugs when all is said and done.
If it does indeed bring increased footfall to the square what does that say about us as a society? That we only venture out of our houses to watch a television? God help us
all.
Peter also said that people bought or rented flats overlooking the market square were not expecting to wake up and see sheep grazing - that's perfectly true but neither were they expecting a television set either. Would you be
willing to accept it if the council installed one outside your house?
Obviously I'm a lone voice and this thing will go ahead. It does sadden me that this is all Dover can come up with in an effort to revitalise the town. If this is
it then God help us. - Binky we do need the extra footfall as you put it, the television is one way of getting it, have you any better ideas, that can improve the catchment needed
to boost the town, without the catchment you cannot expect the growth of big business - sheila has explained the realities of the situation, as she was born and bred
here, maybe we should listen.
peter has made the point about possible failure.
it is a no lose situation, we are being given something for nothing, if it does not work out it gets binned.
bern has asked for
alternatives, i would imagine that there will be a resounding silence in lieu of answers.
- binky,calm down only time will tell whos right and whos
wrong. - Apparently (I am told by a well-informed councillor) the telly will be clever enough to set its own volume at 1dB above ambient levels and the speakers will be
directional and aimed at the centre of the square. The only extraneous noise therefore should be audiences cheering goals, etc. If there is an audience there they will presumably be spending money in businesses in the vicinity. (a Good
Thing). If there is no audience there will be no noise (another Good Thing, but for different people). - that is a standard thing with these screens.
they are everywhere,
so anything other than that would not be possible.
there are shops locally that are against the idea.
i think that it is just a dover thing, no change whatever the consequences. - i have just typed a whole posting and it has gone .im too tired to redo it now will try again tomorrow .Im with you Binky
- Well quite frankly I don't know why is expecting any more footfall really. Given the economic climate it's not really going to happen. It's wishful thinking. Every town
from Bingley to Berlin, Dover to Dubrovnik is experiencing a massive turndown in trade and business. We are not unique in this by any stretch of the imagination. But it has to be said that the town has suffered from a gradual decline
over many years and most of the decline has been during the "good" years. It is not a sudden rate of decline because of the global depression. Instead of knocking down any points I have made in opposition to the telly you should be
asking why this situation has been allowed to happen when the town really had a chance to redeem itself during times of high consumer spending over the past ten or so years.
It's easy to come back at me and ask to give alternatives
just because you happen to disagree with me but hey why should I?
I'm not paid to. We have elected councillors to do that. Maybe you should direct your questions to those in control of the running of the town.
But as you ask I'll
give you a few pointers as to where I stand.
Put more bobbies on the beat to clean up the anti-social behaviour in town and in, for example, in Pencester park.
Ensure that when a shop is left vacant it is somehow spruced up to at
least give the appearance that it hasn't closed permanently but merely taking a holiday.
Hold more interesting events that would attract the more artistic elements into the town. No more burger vans and kiddies roundabouts but
slightly more cultural events.
Lobby our MP to get the Government to reduce business rates on shops especially new shops so they may gain a foothold which is crucial especially in the early days.
That's all that springs to mind
off the top of my head but I'm sure a couple of hours extra thought might gleen even more. If so I'll keep you all posted.
Oh and one more thing. Make sure that this country never, ever bids for the olympics ever again. It's just a
license to lose money and really only benefits the rich, those big corporations who make millions from it and does nothing to encourage people in general to take up sport. It doesn't. I know I'll get flamed for that opinion but I
don't believe the recieved view for I know it to be lies and hyperbole. - binky, my dear old thing, do you post under any other names in forums in dover?
- Ahhh....it becomes clearer Howard........thank you
- That is a thin list there from Binky all the thinner when you
analise what our local Council, Town or District can do...
The police do not come under the funding or operational control of Dover.
Most if not all the closed shops are not owned by any of the Councils, the landlords are
responsible and should make sure the properties are presentable. The Councils will have little or no powers in this respect.
DTC could, I suppose organise ddifferent events but that really is a matter for each individual as to what
is appropriate.
As for lobbying our MP - yes you can try but what makes you think he will suddenly act or achieve success after 12 years of failure. The National Business Rate is a failure as far as Dover is concerned, I agree with
the aims of that suggestion though.
- Tonight I shall vote against this screen.I agree with Binky there are better ways of bringing
interest to our town .Where are the police ?.When I go into Dover I dont want to see people begging .There is help out there for these people .I donot appreciate seing people drinking outside of the pubs from early morning .Litter being
placed in the flower planters etc .
I deal with empty properties and sadly a lot of them are owned by landlords who do not live locally and never visit Dover .
We need culture and this screen is nothing to do with that .The
money should be put towards our leisure centres where young people can be encouraged to participate in sport .More money for our excellent musuem where you can learn obout the history of Dover and our wonderful past .The screen it self
is ugly not at all attractive .
I read in a local paper today this will encourage an even greater drift to Canterbury .
The few quality shops we have will gradually go because councillors are not listening to them .Im in the
minority but i have spoken to young and old and everyone is against it .The only ones for it are some of my collegues on the council .Remember there is no such thing as a free lunch .Last weekend the Abbey was packed and most days there
are visitors to this lovely park The daffs are just coming out the cafe is excellent but our council has no money to repair the lake walls .Instead of officers spending time on this screen it would be better if they were trying to get
investment for this
Children can run free and familllies get together .Dont let us all go further into becoming americianised with instant entertainment ..I can just see it drive ins to the market square
We do need more events in
the town sadly Im no longer part of that however the community must help it self .In the parishes they organise events why cant dover ?? - Presumably it will all come to
fruition about the same time as the DTIZ........? - Shelia i know you are born and bred in Dover but we can find other things to spend the money on in this town apart from an
eyesore!!!! What about more parent friendly areas, children areas and updating the high street to name but a few. Dover seems to be run by idiots who have no idea what the people of this town really need. It is not cable cars and TV
screens !!! - IM not an idiot and I do try very hard .Many of the people whom I represent are against the TV sreen .You trying arguing against eight strong willed men .Still i
give as good as I get and I will argue again tonight .Surely there is more to life than a giant TV screen .
We do need more events in the town sadly Im no longer
part of that however the community must help it self .In the parishes they organise events why cant dover ??
Interesting quote Sue.
Maybe, just Maybe the reason more events are not organised in town is because of the amount
of red tape set around organising and getting them approved. I have recently been informed that a risk assesment cannot be signed off by someone if they do not sit on the organising committee. I honestly do not see what difference who
signed it off makes as long as they know what they are doing when they write it.
It's little things like that which deters people from coming forward and being a volunteer to help organise events, add to that insurance costs, and
then you can understand why.
Your referance saying that the people in Dover don't organise events I find a bitter pill, there are many organisations such as priory forum,Hell fire corner, Dover Town council and Dover carnival who
work their socks off to put on events in the town, but comments and snipes from a district councillor such as yourself does nothing to give us encouragement, so thanks for that Sue- my comments refer to Dover being a much larger community so therefore should be able to put on events If places like Wingham and Alkham and
indeed River can do it why not Dover .A large Town Council with higherer incomes than the Parishes .In this instance im writing as a person who does help at village events not wearing my councillor hat . - I can just see it now, young chaps parking their convertibles in Market Square with their girlfriends on a warm summers evening to watch the latest 3D Sci-fi movie at the
Drive-in, with waitresses whizzing by on their roller blades taking orders! Hang on a minute thats looking back into the 50's, but hold on retro is the new rage lol! But seriously folks, lets back this enterprise 100 per cent!! - Jasper, you have missed the point that no Dover money is being spent on this, it is BBC licence payers' money and the county council's. If we don't accept the screen they will
just put it somewhere else and benefit some other community. The money for the screen is not on offer for any other purpose. It's a no-lose situation.
Sue, the screen is not going to be in River, your consituents can choose
whether or not to come to the market square when it is on! And your comments about culture are a bit off the mark. Firstly, nobody has yet seen a programme of what will be on the screen. Secondly, nobody has yet lost money by
underestimating the taste of Dover people.
Mandie, I agree wholeheartedly with most of what you say, however events in the out-of-town parishes tend to be a bit smaller than those arranged in Dover itself. While parish events tend
to be arranged by or through parish councils, most of what goes on in Dover is arranged by voluntary groups. (And you forgot CAMRA, we also work hard to bring over a thousand people to Dover on the first weekend in Feb every Year. And
the Regatta Core committee.)
DTC takes an ever-increasing precept in our council tax and we see very little for it, other than refurbishment of Maison Dieu House so they can hold wedding receptions and compete with their own
ratepayers. - Barry W-S, if you park your convertible in Market Square, it will cost you a £50 ticket!!
- why
not put the tv screen in pencester gardens it would be lot safer out of the way of traffic, plus more people could see it!! - Hi Peter, hadn't
forgotten about CAMRA or others, but was just trying to highlight to Sue the hoops most of us have to jump through to bring events into Dover.
parish events are relatively small events and fairly easy to organise for the parish,
as it usually only involves those living in that area. The wording of Sue's post made it sound as if Dover didn't do enough to bring in events, and quite frankly that cheeses me off cus there are lots of organisations working VERY hard
to make it happen, but red tape and picky people make it more difficult for us to do so.
Hope that helps clarify the point I was trying to get across - sue
you
have this habit of talking down to people and rubbing them up the wrong way.
mandie has pointed out very clearly that there are loads of people and organisations in dover that try to put on events, but held back by red
tape.
events in alkham and other villages don't have the same problems with shop keepers, road closures and bus companies that a town does.
the reason that the people you talk to are against the big screen might be the
scare stories that you peddle to them.
everyone i speak to is of the impression that the council are paying for the purchase and installation.
the fcat of the matter is that the council will be sticking a few bob in the meter
every now and again .
are you telling your friends that this is not true? - paul
mr fuller is a regular feature in the media.
i referred to him on the
main forum as giving a po faced performance at the seriousness of the joke.
he has to justify his job and salary, he has hardly any refugees to deal with now. - I'm curious as to what you see as 'culture' Sue?
I'm in favour of the idea, although think the awkwardness of the market square would suggest this would make more sense in somewhere like Pencester.
I find the
whole idea of suggesting that this would encourage anti-social behaviour very funny, surely watching TV is anti-social! I'm not sure what the required number of people watching TV together is to make it sociable?
- Mr Fuller works for the Kent Refugee Action Network which Howard suggested in an earlier posting is pronounced crass. It isn't, it's pronounced KRAN. I believe that KRAN is not a
reception service so the amount of asylum seekers and or refugees arriving today is not relevant. I think he does justify his job and salary - to the trustees of the charity. - ap
i am not sure how mr fuller justifies his job and salary.
you state that the amount of asylum seekers is not relevant.
what else does he do that keeps him busy - I dont think it's my business what Mr Fuller does for a living although I believe that KRAN are involved in integration projects.
- Jasper we could do what you suggest but what is the point in spending money on what you suggest if the town is dead
- ap
why do you think that mr fuller justifies his salary if you do not know what he does for a living?
kran seem to be a body that has been
around for a long time, yet they are just now in the process of building a website.
you have described it as a charity.
where does its funding come from? - Well the TV screen got the go ahead last night subject to planning even though Sue put up a passionate opposition to it,her arguement was well thought out and said from the heart.Even Paul Watkins was slightly angry by her
pleas.But apart fro 2 Councillors who voted against and the Planning Committee abstained it went thru.
I spoke to a fuming Sue after the vote and told her why I had voted for it,yes there may be social problems and anything that is
New and helps bring people to Dover and helps with the regeneration plans is ok by me.
The funniest part of the discussions was Kevin Mills a Rugby fan who said bring on the football and Rugby,but he said watch out for the Tennis fans
as the TV Pimms fountain and Tennis fans will not mix and we are likely to see the Tennis fans in the fountain. - Very good account there John .I dont hold a grudge against those
who voted for it .Just know that I shall be spending less time in that part of Dover ,I tried to support those who are objecting .I could have sat quietly but no Im a woman of principle and I will always speak from the heart
. - Peter how can i huge TV screen by whatever menthods be a win situation !!!! totally the biggest eyesore this town will see. So no not missed the point at all
let some other town have it. Why people need to have this in the market square is beyond me. All it will encourage is all day drinking and mindless vandelism. I had my car parked at the drivers car park in Dover Priory and was greeted
with a chunk of concrete through the window on Wednesday so dont you think something should be done about that and things like it? - Shelia the town would not be dead if the
likes of Sue listen to what the Dover people want and need. To say it is dire is the understament. Folkestone with its all singing all dancing shopping complex with ASDA is drawing the crowds what had Dover got, Charity and Mobile phone
shops, or as in recent weeks empty shops. Encourage business back into Dover, clean up the high street and help small business. Not promote TV screens and cable cars that we do not need. Speak to the council and English Heritage perhaps
they can be turned to give the town something other than eysore?? - Jasper, I can name 10 architectural gems of the 1950-1980 period in Dover which are bigger eyesores than
this TV screen. I know it's not perfect but it will appeal to a major segment of the Dover population. And it isn't going to cost Dover anything.
If Folkestone is so great, I suggest a nice little bedsit in Black Bull Road would
suit you fine. Then you wouldn't need a car, you could walk to Folkestone Central. - Jasper makes an interesting observation about Folkestone thriving with ASDA...how is it
that other towns seem to embrace these new developments and go on to thrive with these developments while we here in Dover are still arguing the toss night and day whether to allow them come here at all.
There have been so many
people objecting to ASDA coming here that its a wonder they are still interested. Didnt we shun McArthur Glen or whatever its called too. It was before my time in Dover so I dont know the pros and cons but lessons werent
learnt. - I'm pleased to hear John, that the screen has been given the go-ahead, I'm sure that this will be of benefit to Dover. At least its something positive
to look forward to in these difficult times.
- I was in Folkestone on wednesday evening, it was dead with a lot of down and outs hanging about, I don't know exactly
what I was expecting, but I guess I thought it would be lively or even vibrant comes to mind, but it was neither. Seriously, Dover's environment even in its present state feels better, so bring it on I say! TV Screens, ASDA's, DTIZ,
etc, etc, lets get moving forward and show what this great historic town of Dover can really become! - there seems to be a lot of negativaty coming from
certain people on this section,those apossed to the tv screen have there heads and hearts buried in the past.it is now time to look to the future and get this town kicked into the future instead of living in the
past. - Peter Peter !!! it was only an observation, is it really necessary for you to have a personal hit at me when we are discussing Dover in general. Does it make you happy to
sneer at my misfortunes of having my car window screen smashed in by thugs ? - Collette B has it in one, lets get Dover moving forward, if its by TV then so be it but i honestly
feel it will create more trouble then it is worth. But forward we must go, sometimes a bitter pill leads to a sweeter future. - howard mcsweeney
you ask why I think Mr Fuller
justifies his salary. I do not know how this individual does but he must do or he wouldn't be in a job and isn't it between him and his employers. You also ask how KRAN is funded. I do not know, it is not any of my business, is it any
of yours? We appear to both be ignorant in this matter although I do know that they are not a reception service agency and their name is not pronounced crass. Is your problem with the job they do or the group they provide help
to? - Glad to know that the District Council have got the screen one step closer. Can I ask Sue if she has seen one of these screens in operation, because I have and they are
fantastic, there are large events held around them but on a normal day to day basis you hardly notice that they are there. It is also so high above the ground that it is your choice if you look up at it. I think that this is such a
good opportunity for Dover. - well sue, the town councillors vote unanimously for the screen, all but you and one other on the district council voted for it.
one can only
reach the conclusion that you must be right and everyone else bar none wrong. - ap
my problem is that an attack has been made on one of my local councillors by
mr fuller.
i would like to know what authority he has to make this.
he is speaking on behalf of kent refugee action network, so i am naturally interested in what sort of organisation this is. - jasper
i do not really see the connection between the attack on your car and the regeneration of dover.
the rather frightening sounding incident there is a matter
for kent police or the railway company that owns the car park. - Is it a serious suggestion that we try to encourage the people of Boulogne to come shopping in Dover
Town Centre. Would you invite somebody round your house if it was in such a state? Lets get the town developed and start to walk before we can run. The french have been coming over in greater numbers for the last 6 months and food shop
at our local superstore or the one near the tunnel. If they want to go clothes shopping then the only thing we will see of them is their car's the way to Canterbury. If your looking for somewhere pleasant to go for a meal or to sit out
on a seafront terrace the Ramsgate to Boulogne service will begin on 31st March. We have a long way to go to catch up - loalview,the ramsgate-boulogne route is in serious
doubt and its only rumor and speculation at the moment. - max
it was announced today that it starts on the 31st of this month, 4 crossings a day.
took me by suprise
too. - howard,you have surpized me there i am gobsmacked.
- Jasper, I do not have to speak to the council,
I am a Councillor.
If any of you are interested the application for the planning of the television it is on the Dover District website, 09/00109 why not have a look at its proposals, etc, then make your mind up
- Colette - nice one. You always manage to hit a positive note. Thank you. And I agree. I would always rather live here than Folkestone. We lived in Cheriton for a while when we
first moved down before we moved here and I hated it. We fell in love with Dover despite everyone telling us not to even bother looking at houses here. - Having looked at the
plans for the T.V. in the market place, I think its a great idea. We were on holiday earlier this year at Great Yarmouth and they had one installed there, it had encouraged a good market, plenty of shops and people were sitting having a
coffee while watching the Grand National. Surely thats got to be good. Come on Dover stop burying your heads in the sand. - howard,when was this anounced and where,i allways
thought it was an unfounded rumor linked to chimera/edes of hoverspeed fame.and have they secured a vessle of the high speed veriaty yet. - max
on the box
tonight.
diane
good to hear some positive thoughts about our town, would be nice to watch, say for example. england playing football, cricket or rugby in a world cup in the company of people with the same enthusiasm. - wot channel was it on.i saw meridian tonight and it wasnt on there.
- After spending many years away from Dover, I
was horrified how much the town has deteriated. The erection of the T.V. screen is the way forward and may bring back the community spirit Dover once had. We need to drag ourselves into the 21st
Century.
- Sorry Jasper, I wasn't having a pop at you, just trying to inject a bit of humour into this otherwise quite humourless discussion. If my joke offended you I
apologise and you can put me in the stocks straight after Roger.
It's just that when people get so negative about Dover I feel things need to be lightened up a little......we are looking for a way forward not the way
back. - Or maybe I should apologise to the people of Black Bull Road. After the first earthquake there was a joke going round that the value of the average house in that area had
increased by £5,000. - Yes, we had a great time at the Royal Yacht Club last night, met lots of friendly and very
interesting people and were made extremely welcome in the clubs warm cosy atmosphere. Lots of happy faces everywhere drinking the scrumptious ciders and beers on offer and devouring the delicious salt beef sandwiches which I loved.
Definitely worth a visit today. - Sorry we weren't able to go there last night, but we did go this lunchtime.
I'd not been in there for quite a
long time, so was pleasantly surprised that it still has this down-to-earth warmth and welcome.
I couldn't drink much, but enjoyed what I had - the drink prices are very good and the food looked good.
I tried the salt
beef, but although it was O.K. it wasn't as good as that in Stamford Hill, North London
Roger M. welcomed us in and we both enjoyed it there for a couple of hours.
It would probably pay people to be a member there as the
prices are so good - and in such pleasant surroundings too.
Colin and the gang were there singing and playing folksie music.
Roger - nice to see romance
still alive and kicking in these troubled days with ex cllr sansum and his wife they were spotted in a local eat in very much in love. one wonders if it was a special occassion? have heard rumours of their vow renewal. just a tip
remember us fellow politicians on the invite list. - Does anyone out there have (or know someone else who has) a tandem or double buggy/pushchair for sale? I
can't afford a lot but am in need of one urgently for my job. Thank you. - My daughter was shopping in Nottingham yesterday .the following shops have closed
,Viyella,Laura Ashley and River Island This is a university city ,so poor old Dover is not the only town suffering .The economic climate is hitting all towns and cities . - I've also heard that Mosaic Fashions, the company behind Karen Millen (our lovely Jan Tranter's favourite place to shop), Oasis, Principles and Warehouse have gone into administration. Despite being largely bought by a
management-led consortium there are fears of store closures and job losses. This failure they believe was triggered by the meltdown in the Icelandic banking system. Canterbury's shopping centre will be badly hit by this news.
- The shops are certainly closing at national level as Sue
Nicholas and ColetteB say below, but could Dover do more to save the ones here in this town. Local Labour Leader Ben Bano has had a series of letters recently in the local newspapers and again this week too, all highlighting our
difficulties..." a large proportion of our shops could be empty by the end of the year!" says Ben.
The Labour Leader notices that at peak hours our carparks are only half full, and goes on to blame the parking charges in both
Dover and Deal for this state of affairs. He asks that these charges be reduced by the current administration in an effort to kick some life into things.
"Other towns give the first hour FREE" says Ben
"Why cant we do
that?"
Why indeed?? - Have you not thought that people have less money and are only buying essentials.With interest rates falling people cannot rely on
their savings .You would hardly go in to Dover to have a look round .Go down to the sea front maybe or a visit to the parks but why do you need to use the car parks unless you are shopping for the essentials .A lot of older people are
using the buses only going in their cars for longer trips .The River bus is usually packed especially at peak times . - fairydust,
There is NO TRUTH in
the rumour, if you Iadentify yourself rather than hiding I would be able to contact you direct - PaulB thats a great idea, hopefully Ben Bano can push this through as it would
be another positive move for shopping in Dover, a great incentive! Make it an hour FREE! - What a great idea to encourage shoppers to the town, all we need now are some
decent shops to open in the area and its on the up, go for it Dover - certainly worth a try, say for 3 months, then make an appraisal of lost revenue and increased footfall in
town. - Someone said to me today..what use is 30 minutes or an hour? Well it is a very useful window. In that time you can go and get a newspaper in your hard
pressed local shop, a burger in your struggling local restaurant, a sandwich in your local...,fish n chips in your local...., visit a doctor, nip to the dentist and a 1001 other things. Right now you cannot stop for a newspaper in Dover
in your car, as it would turn into a very expensive newspaper if you pay for your parking ticket, and a very very very expensive newspaper if you dont. The idea might just help get some life back into the inner town...its a
beginning. - Thats the type of ideas we should be promoting PaulB - how about parking fee refunded when you spend over a certain amount £10 in the town centre
shops - Sue "finger on the pulse" Nicholas has it wrong again: PaulB understands the need for shorter parking times, and the need for a way to encourage people to shop,
even for "essentials" or newspapers. By the way - I go into town for a look around - I enjoy browsing in the charity shops, the bookshops and mooching around generally. If I had to park to do so I wouldn't. I work hard and like to
realx, sometimes, by rootling and rummaging in the shops, but would not spend money to do so!!!. - What a pity that Ben could not offer any of his wonderful ideas before DDC set
its budget last Thurs.He knows DDC has factored car parking charges into the budget as he has had time to scrutinise & offer amendments for the past two months at least.Howard has scussed it. Drop parking charges & lose something else to
make up for it.Bus useage is up 20% Some traders are suggesting removing the half hour & returning to the hour only secenario, whereby you had no choice but pay for an hour & get no change. - Any truth in the rumpour that the great senior citizen card where they could travel all over Kent/Sussex is coming to an end?
they can now only make one
journey
well??? - interesting post from the fuhrer there, it looks as if the issue has been used for political gain rather than a genuine attempt at helping dover's
shops.
the bus services now are better than they have ever been and people with cars are using them.
the bus goes to the centre of town and does not lumber it's passengers with parking charges. - keith
you are a bit out of date there mate.
the kent/sussex thing finished a couple of years ago.
the card covers the entire country now. - I had a major run-in with the parking department last year, as Paul Watkins knows. I have been promised a meeting with the parking manager to discuss the issues and I
might just take them up on this quite shortly.
Other towns have a soft-start pricing policy which seems to work. An example is Leamington Spa, where our sons and daughter have a thriving business. The first half hour is 20p.
After that it gets more expensive, nearly £1 for the next 2 hours. Wow! This is a far more affluent town than Dover, and the town thrives. Their feeling is that their business would not be thriving if the parking regime were like
Dover's. In surrounding towns such as Rugby and Kenilworth the parking charges are higher and those towns do not thrive. - i may be wrong here peter, i think that most towns and
cities from the midlands upwards get a better rate support grant from the government.
it does seem strange that somewhere like leamington spa has cheaper parking than dover. - Localview although that idea is used in some cases.. ie spend £10 and the parking is free...its more ideal for a one shop type carpark. In the case of central Dover I think
we would be talking about the casual shopper who might stop for a bottle of milk and a newspaper. Or indeed a worker on his way home may stop for fish n chips so the £10 idea wouldnt be satisfactory.
For example there is only one
shop left in Market Sq and its a newsagent. Newsagents I would imagine exist on high volumes of people going in through their doors spending relatively small amounts of money..packet of fags and a coke, and so on. These are the customers
needed.
Penalising these customers with a parking charge more than the cost of their purchase kills the shop. - Last January when the car-parking charges were increased,
I was very much against it for the reasons stated below.
Since then, other (major) factors have come along that decrease the disadvantages that those car-parking increases brought to business.
First of all, we're in a
recession, so less buying anyway. Businesses having to cope with higher than necessary business rates (businesses trading at much lower levels than their business rates would suggest).
London level of rents from (to my mind) greedy
Landlords.
The general appearance of the Town doesn't give it a welcome feel.
Less dependancy on the car for shopping, with increased use of the buses.
One of my "areas of responsibility" involves talking to businesses to
determine if they would be happy to offer to refund the first hour's parking charge if the customer spends over say £15 or £20 in their shop.
Admittedly this may be interpreted as another burden on the businesses, but many were happy
to offer a discount when they joined the Dover Loyalty Scheme, so in principle, it shouldn't be that big a problem - if a problem at all.
There are also many areas in Dover (Town) where on-street parking is free, but the time
limits are too restrictive to be of any real use to either the shopper or business.
It is true that the budget has already been set, so it's too late for this year anyway.
The political machinations of weekly protests in
the local papers - knowing that nothing can be done now that the budget is set, does not help the business or the shopper, it just takes the focus away from the real problem - shopping in our Town needs improving and so does the state of
the Town itself - in every respect.
Roger - I think Bern if you read Rogers posting it conveys more or less what i was saying .I dont think
either of us got it wong .People will only shop for essentials .Charity shops are also feeling the pinch .People are thinking twice before throwing something out The buses are being used more .Do you travel on a bus ???
Tesco draws
people out of Dover and if you need clothes one goes to Canterbury and also use their ASDA or Morrisons .
. - HOWARD
Wel that proves i'm just a pleb now, my point
is though, its rumoured you can only make the 1 journey in the future
any truth in that? - Don't forget folks, there are still a few, albeit a few places dotted around Dover
if you can scramble to get one that is, who do offer an hours free parking which gives you more than enough time to get the essentials. Although you have to be lucky to get one.
I wish I could drive down to Somerfield, park my car
for Free as with Tesco, do a weekly shop and browse around town buying goods from our local stores. But as the main shop is just too heavy to carry and to park you have to pay for the privilege, it has to be Tesco's. Thankfully I still
walk around the local shops when I do not have a major shop to do.
For the life of me, why aren't these opportunities taken up and cleared by the people who have the power to do so, before these budgets are set, for the good of
Dover residents and businesses alike, in order to prevent this town from dying and done without political point scoring. - Out of curiosity, how much
revenue do the current parking charges generate for DDC? What would be the potential loss to them if the first hour was free? - Surely the cost of parking in Dover eg Stembrook
must be cheaper than using petrol to travel up to Tesco and Somerfields are cheaper
Im always amazed at the number of people who drive to the local shops .What happened to legs ??
I have to shop nearly every day as i
cannot carry more than a couole of bags however i do use my local post office for quite a few items
A lot of money Phil.Nigel has the figures - Well Sue, we walked
down to Blakes on Saturday and the Stembrook car park was full with cars queuing to get in. Some idiot at the back of the queue was honking for others to get out of his way!
I think that DDC are creaming it and rubbing their
hands with glee (VAT reduction not withstanding).
In the previous week we parked in Maison Dieu Road. Sadly we called into Somerfield after and didn't get back to the car until one hour and fifteen minutes later. Oh joy! A
ticket!
Terry - I haven't needed to pay to park for years in Dover, I have legs !!
Looking at the accounts for last year, DDC made a 'profit' from
parking of £794k, but I am sure that we would all rather this than pay this much more on our council taxes ???
www.doverdc.co.uk/pdf/accounts0708.pdf
- Indeed PW. If
lost DDC revenue from parking charges was made up on our Council Tax to ensure no local services suffer, non-drivers would be penalised unfairly. So with this plan DDC could be looking at a potential over half million shortfall - anyone
fancy a fortnightly bin collection? - Good point, PW, but these high charges inflict collateral damage on those of us who run businesses in the town centre. Government policy is
to try to get people out of their cars and onto public transport. But what public transport? Unless you live on a bus route it's too time-consuming for people who work, services stop too early in the evening for people in the
hospitality industry, and if you live in rural areas there are few services evenings and Saturdays and none at all on Sundays. Add to that the fact that for two people coming from Eythorne to Pencester (say) it's cheaper to take the car
than the bus. If parking charges and road taxes were ring-fenced for investment in public transport I would not mind coughing up. But they aren't, it just goes into the general pot to finance millenium domes, Olympic bids, banking bail
-outs and pensions for the swollen public sector. Now why not start means-testing council housing? People get on the social housing ladder when they genuinely need it but remain on it for life if they want to, whether they need it or
not. That, to me, is the 'elephant in the room' of public finances. - Strange how the local leisure centre seems to attract the local traffic wardens, sorry parking attendants
on more than a regular basis. Three, four and even more times a day they seem to check cars parked there. And yet other areas of the town seem to be untouched by their presence. One might cynically think that the leisure centre is "easy
pickings" for these people. - Why not easy pickings - the rules are there, so if you break them, nore fool you !
Peter - I am sure that you will find that it is ringfenced
money on roads and road maintenance, car-parks, FREE BUSES for the elderly !! - Yes PW but the rules are there not as a cash cow but partly in order to make the roads safer. So
why is it that they are nowhere to be seen where, for example badly parked cars cause considerably danger? Yes the rules are there but in a car park cars present no danger. As I said earlier easy pickings in my and most sensible
peoples' minds. In fact you could put a lead around their necks tied to the office they emerge from and it would only stretch to the seafront. - fully agree with binky there, the
tickets seem to be issued where it is fairly easy to catch someone rather than where someone is parked dangerously or causing an obstruction. - Dangerously parked
cars though are a police matter, councils rule carparks, on street parking and parking restrictions. - So what are double yellow lines for?
You are right when you say that
councils rule car parks. That they most certainly do.
Following your logic PW what is the purpose of double yellow lines?
It still doesn't address the question as to why parking attendants concentrate nearly exclusively on car
parks and not in other areas of the town where cars continually park in places not necessarily dangerous but certainly violating the regulations.
As I suggested before, a cash cow.
This would explain the appearance of the enforcers
devoting their efforts in one small area of the town. - Sue - why the judgmental stance? There are many people with legs who are not unfit enough for a blue badge but who
nevertheless struggle with distance. There are also people who may park and shop and then go on somewhere else. You have your values and assets and others have theirs, it is not for us to judge. I need, however, to point out the choice
factor that keeps being rammed down our throats by this government and the ones before it - real choices come from real options and those need real support and backing. Some may well choose to go in to the Town by car if parking were
less of a problem. - Why not ? I'd say go for it, if they can keep my council tax down by giving ticket to people that break the rules, the more the better
!! - getting back to the original point, mr beano suggested that parking be free for the first hour.
our leader, paul something or other,made the point that this was never
suggested at the time the years budget was set.
he also made the point that bus use was up 20% locally.
surely local businesses are making a net gain overall? - PW its not all just about keeping council tax down. Just imagine paying council tax on your nice house in an area boarded up with devastation and dilapidation and decay. It
wouldnt be much fun for yourself or family. I recently saw a programme on TV which showed areas of decay where you could buy a house for £1. Yes £1. When towns board up and the shops close down, the house prices plummet.
Over
zealous penalising of the customers will stop them returning to the inner town, to the shops, to the restaurants. Result: decay. - I agree with your comment PaulB about decay and
house prices dropping even further and our Town Centres becoming ghost towns, but I don't believe the reason for our (any) Town's demise is down to car-parking charges alone.
As I said in a previous posting, there are other
factors that come into play and have done since the car-park charges were put up in January last year.
Dover needs an holistic approach to its ills and I believe that those 21 areas of responsibility, do that: we'll know at the
end of the month if I'll be allowed to do carry them out.
Roger - I was going to send that out this morning PaulB, so you beat me to it.
I am working on a leaflet
to promote Dover to the people in and around Boulogne, Le Touquet and Dieppe. This will be working with LD Lines of course as they are the carriers, but I want to try and include SeaFrance and/or P. & O. Ferries for the people in and
around Calais and Norfolkline and the people in and around Dunkirk.
I'm not sure how many people there are around these ares, it must be getting on for a couple of hundred thousand, so good numbers we can encourage over
here.
This time, not just tourist attractions, but our good quality shops, pubs, restaurants and cafe's.
Roger - Good luck with your
plan there Roger to attract French locals here, its one with a lot of merit and could have a lot of potential. You can still of course mail that info out to your regular readers. I was very grateful to Ed Connell for the added pictures
which helps make it a striking frontpage above.
Speaking of good quality shops, its a great pity at this time of promoting Dover that there are so many retail failures in our shopping
precinct. - Roger - you ignored my comment on this subject a few days back. The French have been coming over in larger numbers for the last 6 months - advertising
campaigns have taken place with ferry companies and the local authorities in France. They have been promoting the price differentials in the supermarkets in the UK and also detailing the sales that have been taking place in Canterbury
and the large shopping centres. How do you propose that you will encourage them to come shopping in Dover town centre - i'm not so sure on the good quality shops, pubs, restaurants and cafe's
line - If we can encourage the French over all well and good but we dont have the high street to attract spending. Most of the revenue will go to place like Canterbury will
it not? - Exactly Jasper - if the council are however hell bent on producing this leaflet then surely it makes sense to produce it in conjunction with the regional authorities in
France and all of the ferry companies this would cover a larger catchment area and give greater means of transportaion to Dover. - those 2 pics of the transmanche/ld lines
ferry are superb.
makes such a change from the superferries of po and seafrance
that are so similar. - Jasper and Localview
I didn't ignore any
posting on purpose.
First of all, I'll be promoting Dover not Canterbury.
It's not a Council initiative, it's mine - I think Dover and its businesses need marketing and promoting and I believe this is the right time to
do it - while the Pound is still low against the Euro and it's at the beginning of the season.
Across the North Coastal region of France, from Dunkirk down to Dieppe, there at least I'm sure about 200,000 people; although there
won't be that many leaflets printed, with the ensuing publicity, a lot of people will know about Dover and the great value and great time in coming here - at least for an over-night stay, but better still for five days.
There
are good shops here, that people in France would be happy to spend money in; there are also some good cafe's, pubs and restaurants.
We also have some great historic sites, museums and attractions as well as some great cliff-top
walks and beautiful countryside.
We don't need to promote the negative side, but work on that from within and with all haste too.
I also appreciate that you can't please all of the people all of the time, but I am doing
my best to help, in a practical way, the Town and businesses of Dover at a time when I think they need it the most.
Roger - roger
forget the shops, concentrate on the eating and drinking establishments.
the french visitors will go to canterbury for the up to date fashions at a good exchange rate.
dover town has a very relaxed
atmosphere that will appeal to a lot of visitors that just want a day out unwinding.
it is then up to our hospitality industry to make them feel welcome enough to want to come back. - I think thats right Roger, sadly best to forget the shopping here as there isnt any of note. The loss of Woolworths, H Samuel, Evans, etc, has left us looking a little
threadbare. Even the local girls go to Canterbury for their retail therapy and if they do it...well I guess that about sums it up. So you could be flogging a dead horse there and wasting your time pushing the shopping. But its still an
attractive place to come with lots of pleasant aspects to it and some nice dining and drinking.
So all the Boulogneses out there should come flocking across to enjoy our attractive aspects, its a new market opening up and
travelling on LD Lines isnt prohibitive. - Many years ago when I worked in Snargate Street the Dunkirk ferry (I think) used to dock on the Admiralty Pier. We used
to see the mid morning hordes heading into town.
Later, they would return after visiting, amongst others, M&S for fruit cake and Normandie butter, and Decor Discount for wallpaper!
Terry - I know there will always be someone to tell me I should do this or that, but if our good retail shops don't get any support and you recommend they don't, then you can't cry when we
don't have a Town Centre.
M & S, Boots, La Senza, Curiosity of Dover, Allan Hughes, Blakes, Dorothy Perkins, White Cliffs Gallery, La Salle Verte, C'est Le Vie, etc. etc. are good quality shops and as such could stand on their
own in any quality Town; they will make any one welcome and they all give very good service.
I appreciate that many local people go to Canterbury, but in these hard times - hard for our local businesses, chain or independant,
because if a chain's head-office want to close a branch, they'll look at the underperforming ones - can you imagine if we lost M & S ? we must support our local shops, we
must.
Roger - Roger the advice is meant well but even you ran out of shops in your posting there..because three or even four dining
establishments have crept into your list..and thats what we said anyway. I think its worth while pushing what we have to offer in the way of dining and drinking....but are people really going to cross the channel for Curiosity of Dover?
We have to be realistic as well.
Marks and Spencer and Boots are in a different league and have massive promotional management anyway.
Yes would be horrible to lose M&S as the town would collapse as a precinct at that
juncture..but local people must support it as much as they can, and indeed they do...Im one.
Terry lets hope the new service brings in those kind of hordes from
Boulogne. - Roger for once we agree, i think what you are doing is brilliant, Dover needs a life line. We need to beef up our historical sites and suggest the good
place to eat in Dover. It is just the shops that let the whole package down dont you think? if more could be done in this climate to encourage the smal businesses back it would be a great day.
We need local shops, bring back the
fishmonger and the likes and shops we need, not mobile phone shops.
As for Roger at least he is getting off his bottom and is actually doing something of worth, Dover needs more people like him to put there hands up.
Come
on Dover get a wiggle on !!! - Possible solution In the Deal Mercury "your letters" by Mr R M Harper, headed Scrapping parking fees works-and there's evidence.
- terry
i was told that
years ago belgian shoppers used to raid the supermarket where somerfields is now for tins of quality street and roses.
is that true? - Yes Terry,
I was
working on the hampton and shepperton ferries and they also used to love our bacon - still much better than you can get over the other side.
David - I
hadn't run out of shops to mention Paul, I have at least 30 to promote, including pubs, cafe's and restaurants, as well as the historic sites and attractions.
Etc. doesn't mean I've run out of them, just that there's more to
mention.
If I can get SeaFrance and Norfolkline on board (excuse the pun), it could boost the ferry business and our Town and shops etc.
How can you expect new shops to come here if you're not going to suppot the ones we
do have ? - and what's wrong with Curiosity of Dover ? they have the biggest selection of Swarovski Crystal in the whole of East Kent, including Canterbury.
I could run of a whole list of the quality products they sell and end up
with an etc. etc.
- Paul you do the owner of the Curiosity Shop a great injustice .It is a wonderful shop friendly staff and purchases can be gift
wrapped .Its the kind of shop one goes to for gifts .Quality my dear chap .
Still perhaps looking at the postings on here Dover gets what they deserve .Cheap cheap . - susan
you receive over 10 grand a year in allowances from the council tax payers.
do you think it right to insult them? - Curiosity of Dover is
indeed a very good shop. Good staff, wrapping service and a good range of gifts. People should support shops like this as it is good for the town.
I have to add I wouldn't personally have anything they sell in my house, in the
same way I may not like the idea of a large screen in the market square, however this does not make it a bad idea! - Sue, I can't believe you are still doing it - what is it with
you and your inability to recognise your obligation to the electorate? Some respect and courtesy would be a good start, followed by a really good helping of understanding your place in the scheme of things. Sometimes I think you really
do just want to scupper any good you do for the sake of not thinking. - What part of Sue's posting was insulting to the electorate ?
She just said that some posters are
poo-pooing the idea that I should promote the quality shops in Dover and in that case, you will get just cheap, cheap shops.
If I followed your advice on this, we wouldn't have any quality shops in Dover - isn't the boot on the
other foot here ? isn't it what you are saying that's insulting the electorate (and the businesses) here ?
You guys are the shoppers; to a great extent, you decide whether a shop lives or dies, survives or thrives.
The
different shops in Dover are like "horses for courses" - different people want to buy, shop, dine, drink in all sorts of different places and if we don't, there'll be even more holes in the High Street.
Roger
- I think anyone who trys to promote Dover should be applauded its not easy when the plans realy are to move everything towards Whitfield.
Once this
started to happen the town shops were always going to struggle.
I USE most of the shops Roger mentions on a regular basis and many others but we have to be honrest and say the town centre is looking tired, thsat wion't stop me
shopping as much as possible in Dover and wanting as a Dovorian to see Dover prosper.
I do wish Roger and others well in these ventures it will be uphill as your fighting against movement of shops to Whitfield
bY the
way didn't someone say ASDA was coming to Dover? havn't heard much on thsat lately - I think we all want the same thing here but its how to go about it.
My view is that
if you market Dover as a centre for shopping, the people you attract here will be disappointed, so I am afraid its short termism in action. ie they wont come back.
If you market Dover as a place to have a good time in the
restaurants and bars while under the spell of the White Cliffs, then thats another matter, people will enjoy that and while they are here will spend money in the shops.
So the same thing is accomplished but with a
difference.
The restaurants / bars are happy
the shops are happy
and best of all and here's the crucial bit
the customers will be happy and will come back.
There is nothing at all wrong with Curiosity of Dover, I just
dont think it would pull people across the channel, but it would benefit from having more people here as described. - Sue - would you like to name the posters and their posts
that you are referring to?
If you want to debate on a specific point then go ahead - but throw in insults - i'm sure we don't want to drop to that level of immaturity - mmmmm lots of hissy fits here,calm down boys and girls.
- Thats good news from the Gwyn Prosser camp above. It is always a worry when you hear of plants or companies etc awaiting impending privatisation. It
usually means the inevitable horror of...job losses and/or wage cuts. So here we have it...the status quo maintained. Gwyn does beaver away quietly but effectively, as you can tell from the latest news
above. - that is good that our gwyn has been working behind the scenes to secure this deal.
note the word "suspended" though"!!
i hope that it is not just a sop ahead
of the european elections.
incidentally those two union bods look familiar, does anyone recognise them? - HOWARD
The guy on the left is Kevin Mills(well
in the picture anyway lol) - thanks for that keith.
i only met him the once, so was not totally sure, i knew that he worked for customs.
that was what made me
think. - if i have it right i fink hes mnow full time union rep
- Unfortunately guys I didnt have any
info through as to who the chaps are in the picture, but of course everyone can tell Im sure that thats Gwyn Prosser MP third from left.
Yes interesting spot there Howard re "suspended", it may just be a case of
semantics...abandoned would probably be better but then again, you can never say never I suppose. - Thats good news all round, Well Done to Gwyn in bringing this
about. - Roger - for attracting French customers to Dover have you tried the possibility of an advertorial piece with Nord Littoral or Voix du Nord as these newspapers have
a large readership in these areas. Whilst I may not necessarily agree with promoting the quality town centre shops as the primary message I do want to try and be constructive wherever
possible - Thanks Localview - I have asked LD Lines and SeaFrance to advise me of the best (highest readership/sales) French local papers and the costs of advertising - half
and/or full page adverts.
I will ask Norfolkline when they confirm they are on-board (excuse the pun).
I can only advertise in the (French) local papers (and of course complete the leaflet itself) if I am able to secure
enough funding.
30,000 leaflets and comprehensive newspaper advertising, from Dieppe to Dunkirk, must benefit Dover and the businesses here.
Roger
- Maybe you could get an advertorial (minimal cost if any) as it may make a good article for one of their reporters - how much money you can save shopping in
Dover, what good value the restaurants are and great places to visit. Hope you can secure sufficient funds for the advertising and leaflets - Its by Dover swimming pool !!
what a picture its lovely - The 'Tidy Ruin' that is St James' church
- Is it the foundations for the new DTIZ
complex?. It commenced in 1647 AD and the DDC have promised to have it completed by 2099.The rebuilding of the Crypt Tavern will take longer or so I have been informed by a council
'insider'. - St James Church ruins
- saw those daffs this morning at st james and
thought how nice they looked. - Ah...you guys are too good for me. All absolutely correct and spot on. Its the magnificent ruin..the Old St James Church looking particularly good
at the moment.
That was a good one by Marek. The foundations for the DTIZ project!! Now that did make me laugh. Well... the DTIZ thing has been rambling on for so long and with no visible signs of life..so a well observed
remark.
Although they did demolish the bus shelter with great aplomb!
...and erect a nice white fence. - Congratulations to Harry and everyone at Crabble Corn Mill and
of coursenot forgetting everyone involved with the Community Payback Scheme. An excellent way of giving back something to the community as a whole. Well Done!
Ah Marek, you made me laugh with the overgrown foundations for the DTIZ
project lol! - Well done Harry and the team .The lads have done a marvellous job the grounds of the Mill etc look very good .
You scrub up well Harry - the old community service scheme when operating properly was very successful, especially among young offenders.
for some it was their first experience of teamwork and
having a purpose.
in a lot of cases, when the service was complete, youngsters went back as volunteers to finish what they had started.
the corn mill is a prime example of something that they can look at
say, "i was
part of that". - Congratulations indeed to Harry, Ant and all at Crabble Corn Mill - and of course well done to the Pay-Back teams.
And yes, those Daffs and
St. James' do look good. I bet Kearsney Abbey looks good with their thousands of daffodils there.
Roger - Congratulations to all at Crabble Corn Mill and everyone involved, Well Deserved, our top forumite Harry looks very dapper indeed.
I love daffodills at this time of the year, Spring is here at last, I am hoping for a big
bunch for Mother's Day. - was deeply saddened to learn of the death of Natasha Richardson.
I worked with her in 2007 on the teen rom-com Wild
Child at Cobham Hall in Kent, which became one of the summer hits of 2008. I found her to be friendly, approachable, down-to-earth, and fun-loving. During the times in between takes on the set she would sit in the crew tent enjoying a
cup of coffee, a boxed meal and a quick read of OK magazine exactly the same as the rest of us.
I loved chatting to her, Shirley Henderson, Selina Cadell and Aidan Quinn on those warm days in August, and felt just as an important
part of the film we were making as they were. She was also happy to to pose for photographs and sign autographs for the teenagers on set, who knew and admired her for her work on the remake of The Parent Trap.
All my love and
deepest sympathies go to her husband, Liam Neeson, and their children in this difficult time.
- Karol well said there. I second that completely. It was a devastating
blow to her family of course, very sad for them indeed, but also sad for all of us to see such a lovely person taken away. Someone we enjoyed in various films and productions. I believe the lights on Broadway were dimmed in her honour
last night too...a great member of the Redgrave dynasty.A great shame. - Lovely story Karol
Yes, very sad indeed and I understand so unnecessary. If she had
been checked out, it's more than likely that the bleed would have been detected and stopped.
I'm sure all out thoughts go out to her
family.
Roger - A very sad loss indeed and especially in someone so young, she was a beautiful talented actress coming from as PaulB aptly said
'the Redgrave dynasty' . When I heard of her sudden death I was constantly reminded with a mental image of Liam Neeson coming to terms with his wife's death in 'Love Actually' . A terrible shame. - Love Actually came
to my mind too.
My heart just hurts just thinking about her boys - the eldest only a few years younger than my Ben - growing up, with all the special moments of their lives still to come, and not having Mum there to share
them.
I know Liam will be as strong and loving as his character in the film, and try his best to be mum and dad for them. - I was very saddened to hear of the death of the
lovely Natasha Richardson, my heart goes out to her two young boys and her husband. It was such a tragic accident. Karol it must have been a great honour to work with such a talented actress who also was as you say down to earth and very
approachable. - Jade. You were a great character, a wonderful mum to your beautiful boys and you entertained us all. The big C claims another young life.
As your mum said -
you are at peace now and without pain - we won't forget you.
My condolences to your husband, family and friends, may you rest in peace now.
We'll miss you x - I agree
with Paul's comment above and found it all "not in good taste" - whatever that is supposed to mean nowadays.
The only good thing (to me) was that it has raised awareness of cervical cancer and if more Ladies have a check-up and
are saved, then that wil be very worthwhile.
She was of course also helping raise money for her young children and that money will help their
future.
Roger - i found the whole charade completely bizarre.
max clifford being appointed publicist?
partly agree with roger,
the cancer awareness thing may prove to be positive.
did her children need to be part of the show? - Whilst the death of anyone in these circumstances is sad
hasn't the whole episode ended up as a media circus to be forgotten in the next few days? I've not met anyone who really took much notice and to be frank cared about the story. It seems to me that it was merely a media manufacture like
many of these stories are. Rather like the death of Princess Diana the same pundits who told us all of their great sadness when she died later decried the whole event as rather naff. - If it's raising awareness I for one hope it isn't forgotten in the next couple of days. Cervical smear tests have gone up by more than 30% since Jade went public with her plight so surely some good has come of her demise.
It could also bring cervical cancer checks back for women over 20. These checks were binned about 5 years ago because of the rarity of the disease in this age group. Luckily for me I was found to have cervical cancer before they
banned the checks, I was 21 at the time and if I hadn't been called for the test who knows where I'd be now!
Jade was famous purely for being famous, a figure that most people loved to hate. She wasn't good at anything that we
know about and she didn't have the movie star looks or figure, in fact she really was quite irritating! On saying all that though, there was something captivating about the girl that made the nation want to watch her every move....why
would she remain in the spot light if she wasn't?!
The media can manufacture many stories but the sales will tell the real story. If her saga wasn't selling they'd have dropped it as soon as picking it
up.
- Don't forget us blokes in all of this. Prostate cancer is a huge killer that can be treated if caught early enough, but is there a screening programme for it,
well if there is it hasn't screened me. I was told some years ago that mine was enlarged but it's never been followed up.
Then there's that other "unspeakable" thing, bowel cancer. I read a couple of years ago that there
was to be screening programme for this but that appears to have gone on the back burner!
- the whole jade goody/princss diana sagas are or were being draged out
to the extent that people turned themselves off.the whole affair got rather boring.the only good thing to come out of the jade goody thing is that it highlighted cervical cancer
awareness. - Re Ben and Saskia
I sat in the Marlowe bar and watched the kids on the monitor in action on stage during The Night of a Thousand Stars. They were fantastic! I
cried with pride.
They are the real stars of the future, and Dover should be very proud of them.
PS The Marlowe Theatre's press officer is (hopefully) sending pix of our kids in action to the local press this morning, as
well as to Collette for this forum. - Really enjoyed myself at Jeanette's 40th Birthday Party on Saturday evening, great music, great food and great company and Wow! the cake
looked truly scrumptious! Yummy, Yummy, I'm sure it must have tasted as good as it looked!
Sad news about Jade's death on Mother's Day, she left a legacy of awareness to younger women about the perils of cervical cancer, so
tragic that she died so young. - Ah Karol! Yes, they had a really fantastic time last night and didn't they do well! So very proud too! and on Mother's
Day, how appropriate. Now, how can we keep Saskia and Ben's feet firmly on the ground as 'The Night of a Thousand Stars' has left them starry eyed lol!
Looking forward to seeing the
photos. - I had an enjoyable time at Jeanette's 40th Birthday Bash, liked the music aka Madness White Reggae Boyz style, unfortunately I didn't catch the
name of the band (does anyone know). The samossa's and mini pasties were nice, Good to see Roger, Jean, Georgette, Brian and Chris and of course the Birthday Girl herself. - barry ws, the group was called hey rudi,yes they good quite lively.it was good to see you there along with the gang.
- Well what a lovely write up....are you really
taking about me?!!
It was a cracking night, wonderful to see so many people turn up....I didn't realise I knew so many people!
As for the band fantastic "Hey Rudi" we'll be putting them on a float for this years
carnival so you'll see them again soon! - I can't believe all the negative comments about Jade. She was an ordinary girl from London and she didn't pretend to be anything
else, unlike a lot of so called A listers. As Jeanette has said already, had she not been interesting to the public she would have been dropped long ago. She was a sweet brave girl who didn't deserve to die and I'm sure when her boys
are older they will realise that she did what she did at the end for them - to secure their future. Max Clifford wasn't just her publicist, he was a father figure to her and she trusted him. I'm so glad she had the wedding of her
dreams to Jack before she died, she looked so happy and beautiful on her wedding day even though she knew she was dying.
Maybe I'm in a minority here but I am sad she died like this and I feel so sorry for her family, specially the
boys. Let us hope that the increase in cervical smear tests we're seeing now prevents more young women from getting the big C and that the powers that be bring down the age for testing to at least
20. - I didn't like Jade Goody and won't pretend I did, and that's probably more about me than about her, but her story is sad and she has left her kids when they needed
her, not through choice but through illness. Whenever that happens it is sad and poignant. Like Kylie and her breast cancer awareness efforts, perhaps the best thing we can say is that because of their celebrity more young women will
take seriously an illness that can kill them. Like Natasha Richardson, again a Mother leaving young children, any Mother leaving children through sickness has to tear at your heart. Let's hope their families and loved ones will do what
they need to to protect and nurture them, all of them. And let's spare a thought also for those kids for whom Red Nose Day was created - the orphans in other countries too. - i agree with you there bern.
- Bern you make a good point but cast your mind back to the Big brother race row. Can you remember the headlines in each and every single
daily paper on the issue? She was for some weeks public enemy number one. Now we find the revisionist version of those times to the point that they have effectively been airbrushed out. Any being from another planet following the lead up
to her death ever the past few weeks would be blissfully unaware of the controversy and the hatred and bile reaped upon this poor unfortunate woman.
I find it odd that political leaders have taken time out of their busy schedules to
eulogize. The same is not true of the soldiers killed in action in Afganistan save the usual few words just before the circus begins at Prime ministers questions. - fully agree
binky.
this whole mawkishness started with the funeral of princess diana,
turning someone in to a saint overnight.
ms goody was a tabloid writers dream, but with little else to commend her. - The re-writing of history has always been bizarre but understandable. We all make mistakes, say things we don't mean, do stuff we later regret. Mostly we can airbrush them
quietly, but for some the airbrushing takes bigger strokes in a public arena. I know that is sometimes by choice, but that doesn't make it any easier. Let's let it be. - Here
here Bern - I couldn't agree more. - I know quoting lyrics from a song to make a point is an incredibly naff thing to do online, but I promise that this will be the one and
only time I ever do it. Neil Hannon from the superb Irish band The Divine Comedy had it in a nutshell in Generation Sex:
Lovers watch their backs
As hacks
In macs
Take snaps
Through telephoto lenses
Chase Mercedes
Benzes through the night
A mourning nation weeps
And wails
But keeps
The sales
Of evil tabloids healthy
The poor protect the wealthy in this
world
- that must have been from a patience strong calendar phil.
do you have any more gems like that? - One extra thing that was noticeable about the Louis Armstrong pub the other night that someone remarked upon and which was a further plus factor, you didnt leave the place
with your clothes reeking of tobacco smoke.
In former times when you went to a crowded pub your clothes and indeed your lungs would be in dire need of transplantation afterwards. This aspect is much more apparent in a crowded pub
and the Louis Armstrong was certainly crowded. So a very refreshing experience the other night that a year or two ago you wouldnt have expected. And nobody seemed bothered by the smoking
ban. - Yes Phil I agree the Divine comedy are brilliant. Another Hannan (Daniel) is another fantastic wordsmith. His lyrics yesterday run to 533 words but unfortunately recieved
no mention in the media. A tour de force indeed and worth watching the three minutes of clear and concise speaking on your favourite internet video channel. - Certainly was a great
party - thank you Jeanette.
Loadsa people, just like the old days; just goes to show the difference live music and a birthday can make - great atmosphere and band.
Well done Jeanette and well done the
Louis.
Roger - now now paul that no smoking comment was bang out of order.dont get me going on that subject
again. - PaulB - right on!!!
- It's my turn to be 40 on Saturday May 2nd, again in the Louis. There should be a blues
band on and some food again, everyone welcome! - Aah poor oul Maxie ...did you have to struggle outdoors and brace the march wind whistling up the Maison Dieu road while gasping
breathlessly for that nicotine fix !!lol So thats where you kept disappearing to! But your small sacrifice was a giant leap for the rest of mankind!
Phil yes will be there all being well with the resident entourage. More music
food and a birthday too...well, it cant be bad. Looking forward to it. - paul that was a backward step for mankind and lady kind as well.bern you cheaky
minx. - Well done to both Sue and Jan.
Why not next year try something a bit more adventurous and nominate 3 or 4
local celebs to stand for the Mayoral position.
Maybe Mandie the old Carnival Queen and organiser,who does a helluva for Dover.Roger Walkden for promoting Dover through his hard work and obtaining worldwide fame as a stand up
comedian,Jeanette for her tireless work with the London Rd forum,Jackie Bowles from the Louis Armstrong for bringing live music weekly to Dover and for being our answer to Annie Walker.We could even invite a big celeb like David 'Hof'
Hesslehoff now just think of Dover beaches covered in Baywatch Babes.
I know its a bit of radical thinking but what a great advert for Dover..well we have just had an Olive lookalike from the tv show 'On the Buses' for the past
year...lol - Thanks Marek for the future nomination, but you have to be a Labour Town Councillor to wear the Mayor's robe.
Maybe if the other Councillors feel strong
enough, there could well be an upset in May.
I'm not passing any comment on their elections as Mayor and Deputy Mayor, just to say they both work hard and Good Luck to both Sue and Jan.
Roger - Thanks Marek for the future nomination, but you have to be a Labour Town Councillor to wear the Mayor's robe.
Why?? - Firstly. Thanks for that Marek lolol Not sure I would want what is such a difficult job. It must be a nightmare being and about as often as the Mayor is.
Secondly.
I think Sue will be a superb Mayor for Dover. I don't know her to well, but what I have seen, she is a very hard working individual, and very approachable, and very down to earth. For your average man on the street, this is what you
would want in a mayor.
Jan I know well, and is a lovely, lovely lady. I am proud to call her a friend.
I understand that other councillors may be disgruntled at the result, however perhaps the councillors should bear in
mind a discussion that was held at Town Council offices a while ago, when it was discussed how Town Council could best connect with the public.
In fighting and throwing a wobbly over a vote is not the way to make that connection.
What on earth are the general public going to think??? We see enough point scoring and hole picking in central government. I personally do not want to see it at local level.
Sue won the vote, and that should be it.
I am not
sure who esle was going for the Mayoral role, but my advice to them would be not to be disgruntled but to support the Mayor elect, and show the people of Dover that they can move forward in a positive way, working together for the good
of Dover.
I understand Cllr Hannent was also up for Deputy Mayor, and I would have been happy with that result to. Both he and Jan do some amazing stuff for Dover.
In time of major problems in our every day lives, the
last thing we need is the odd councillor throwing toys out of the pram. The town council have shown great resolve in working together as a unit regardless of party in recent years. Please don't spoil it now arguing over who should be
Mayor. It destroys all the good work ALL the town councillors have been putting in, and I am sure I am not alone in that view.
I do hope that some of the upset councillors read this and take notice of what I am saying. The town
wants to see a united team at Town Council, not back to old fighting days. It really isn't worth losing credibility over.
Good Luck Sue. I am sure you will do a superb job for Dover, and to Jan to.
I look forward to
seeing you both out and about.
Love Mand x - Mandie
You are putting your own words in as usual!
No one is throwing toys
anywhere and we are all working for Dover. Jan said how she would back Sue . I did not expect to get elected and work superbly with Jan and always will. I consider them both friends.
The "other than Labour councillors" make
their statement every year as we want to see an open vote for the best person not Party political decisions. I think that is fair. Same happened last year and the previous years.
This year has seen huge steps despite staff
illnesses and we are moving forward.
D - David why are you having a go at me????? Did I say YOU threw your toys out???? NO I didn't. If you read my post you will see I
said you were a superb worker for Dover.
What I am saying is based on what Roger W is saying. He said
"maybe if councillors feel strong enough, there could be an upset in May".
To me that says there are councillors
who have thrown toys out over the result. I never once said it was you.
I understand to a degree with what you are saying about best person for the job, as opposed to party, but hasn't it always been the way, not just in Dover but
many places around the country that the party with the majority of seats will over rule those with less seats?? - the mayor should be put to the vote by joe public.nominate three
[3] candidates up one from each party and may the best person win. - good luck to sue and jan,hope you can show the way for a new dover town to be looking good in these sad times!!
- sorry Mandie
but you are quoting Roger who said same. I saw none of it and I was there.
D
X - Once again in
Politics you get nothing for coming second,if you are the largest group you have the pleasure of choosing who does what job.At the District Council as I have said before Paul Watkins would not say I think JHG is doing a good job I will
put him in the Cabinet,he would get strung up by the other Tories and rightfully so,also I suspect by Conservative Head Office.
The Mayor's job is a difficult one,and it is a case of first being available to do it,wanting to do it
and getting voted on by first your political friends.Then full Council,and I have seen not here in Dover but in Sandwich it changing on Mayor Making Day where someone was voted on and then at Mayor Making they changed thier mind.The lady
concerned was in the Labour Party and on the night the Tories who had backed her voted on a fellow Tory. - i cannot see the logic in your comparison john.
the cabinet at ddc
must be filled by people on the same side of the political spectrum.
the role of mayor is basically an ambassadorial one. - If that is so Howard I can look
forward to being Chairman of DDC - There was a strong rumour that Gordon Cowan was going for the top job ( Mayor) so not sure what happened there. I would have thought he would
have been favoured to get it. So did he pull out or did he stand, or was a deal done. Would be interesting to know. Im sure all our readers would be interested. Clearly a lot of canvassing and manouvering goes on behind the
scenes. - that would surprise me if gordon was thinking of going for mayor.
i think he has enough on his plate with the county council stuff at
maidstone. - Is that the same Gordon Cowan who allegedly declined to soundproof the post office social club, thus making the lives of quite a few people a misery
every Saturday night for quite some time a while back? - could be the same man, gordon always likes to share things with others.
- All I have to say about this is I said last year Cllr Cowan would be next mayor and I was wrong.
But this year Dovers mayor is the speaker of the C/Ports and we needed a
very good speaker some one who has done it all before
that has not happen that all.
Vic M - i am not sure what you are saying here vic.
shouldn't be a
problem about getting someone used to public speaking.
we have 4 recent mayors that have had 2 gos and another that has had 3.
i am not including deputy mayors either. - On the mayor making my understanding is that the Labour party had decided its candidate to be mayor.
At the meeting of the town council 4 labour cllrs instead voted with
indies to stop this decision being carried out.
I have in my political career always supported that party and voted with them.
This latest move by 4 labour cllrs(if correct) goes against the grain.
I'v always said
if the Labour party did select candidates for the town council and they are elected then they should abide by the rules of that party(and this very question is asked of them)
I have no problem if the labour party were to withdraw
completel;y from the town council, but what i do have grave concerns about is candidates come before the labour party selection panel, agree to abide by labour party decisions and then before the ink is dry they then act as
indies.
It has to be remembered if these people stand as Labour candidates the labour party canvasses/leaflets/finances these candidates, and many probably wouldn't get elected without this.
So hopefully this can all be
ironed out, i think if i were active as a labour town cllr and this decision had been overturned i would be annoyed.
Hopefully I can be corrected by labour town cllrs that this original labour party decision didnt take
place - That is as I understand the voting went Keith
- keith
if it was district council i would wholeheartedly
agree with you.
town council runs events, allotments, mayoral functions and similar
hardly political.
town councils are only blown up parish councils, they must concentrate on what is good for the local
people.
at present it is nigh impossible to ascertain what goes on there. - Why would/should the Labour Party tell the Labour Town Councillors who to vote
for, for Mayor ? it has nothing to do with the Labour Party surely ? they're not elected, they're just members of the Labour Party.
Roger - I do understand the need, as Keith says, for Labour councillors to stick together. They are elected and supported for any election and through any election under a supportive Labour banner. So in almost all issues they should
stick together as it is a matter of loyalty.
But in some cases this thinking should be relaxed, and a free vote allowed. This is clearly needed in the case of the Mayoral elections. The whole process could descend into farce in
the coming years with the same few swapping the role every two or three years.
David Hannent , an independant councillor and not a member of the Labour Group, has stood for the position as Deputy Mayor now on a number of occasions
knowing full well he is very unlikely to win. I suspect he registers his standing as a protest. But wouldnt it be nice to see fresh blood having a go.
One other point...with a whole series of women now taking up the role and
likely to take up the role for the forseeable future...its time the "Mister Mayor" thing was dropped. Times are changing and its beginning to sound a little daft. Yes indeed times are changing, one even heard on the radio this morning
that there are initiations afoot to allow the Royal Family to marry Catholics..!! strewth! - Dover needs new blood, no disrespect to Jan and Sue but move over give Dover to
someone with a fresh outlook - Jasper, Sue has never been mayor before, so she is "new blood"
- I don't know Sue,
so am not commenting on her abilities. The phrase "has never been mayor before" says it all really , though, given the merry-go-round of mayors that dover enjoys. - you are safe
Bern its not me - Sue - with the guts and gusto you bring to your role I would actually rather like to see you in this job!! Believe it or not!! We disagree on a wide
range of issues but your stamina and committment, and your wish to serve Dover have never been in question!! Respect! - Is it any wonder Dover never seems to move forward.
Doesn't matter what goes on, what work is being done, there are to many people waiting to pounce before anything even has a chance to get going.
I personally do not know Sue that well,however she is very PRO-ACTIVE and unless I
am wrong isn't that what Dover needs. Give the poor woman a chance. - Who hasn't "given her a chance"? If I am not mistaken the threads have been commenting on the process,
not on the woman. I hope she does well and wish her the best, actually. - Today the IOC announced that international torch relay for the 2012 Olympic games will not take place.
What happens to the campaign to get the torch to come to Dover as this was originally on the basis that it entered the country through the port as part of its international
journey? - I do know Sue Jones very well .A very hard working person .I have been at many meetings with her and from what I see she will do a good job .With the greatest
respect to her I dont see her wearing hats all the time ,unlike me I can see her taking part in the dragon race or running for charity .We all have our own styles . - I
have been waiting on that news .I must have been in the garden .Well that was a reason for the screen with the hope of getting the torch through Dover .?? - The torch
still has to come from Greece. - But if it is not going to be paraded through Europe on its way surely they will just fly it here and then have a UK procession. Why
spend days/weeks bringing it overland if nobody is going to see it until it gets to the UK? - Mandi i was not having a go at Sue or Jan but it does seem the same lot of
people get rotated around for the particular jobs on offer. If you dont fit in with the group you dont get elected. Dover has some bright young people lets get them elected. Bring fresh blood
in - As Terry pointed out the Torch still has to enter the uk. From there a national relay is to take place. It will have a bigger focus.
- Paul are you on a practise relay run ??
- Mr Watkins - i'm not thick, it's obvious the torch has to enter the UK by
some means. My point is if it is not beign paraded in France then surely they would fly it to the UK directly and then begin the national relay from there. It will have a bigger focus looks to my like a politicians way of trying deflect
the original point - I still hold the best torch and it is for my wife after 28years.
Vic M - in
recent years 5 people have been mayor twice and another one 3 times.
deputy mayors usually seem to be past or future mayors. - These comments still don't
answer my previous posting asking why the decision on who should be Mayor is made by the (local ?) Labour Party, not the Labour Town Councillors themselves.
It ought to be democratic surely - democratic by those elected and if
people want to vote for whoever they feel will be the best Mayor/Deputy Mayor, that should be O.K.
By having the Labour Party impose their choice, takes away that democracy - doesn't it ?
Roger - roger
most people only answer postings when they have a good reply.
we are all good at that.
i have been posting
for over a year on why it should be someone not tainted by politics.
guess what?
no reply. - Roger
You have got this all wrong so let me
explain.
(and if labour town cllrs wiksh to correct me im happy for this)
The Labour group of Labour Town cllrs (only) not the labour party!!
had a democratic vote where Sue jones ,LOST the vote!!!!!
So having taken a
DEMOCRATIC vote this was ignored at council and as i say 4 LABOUR town cllrs voted with the indies to make sure the LABOUR nomination was defeated!
As I said in my posting if peopole decide to USE the labour party to get elected and
agree to abide by these DEMOCRATIC decisions then they should do so.
If they don't want to(and that is there right) then don't USE the labour party.
All the time the LABOUR party continues to select its candidates then they
should abide by the club.
iN all honesty I don't realy have to much interest in the town council having labour nominations amnd have in the past requested they dont, but all the time they do, i will support labour candidates,.
On the question of D Hannant what has to be remembered is again he ,loses a DEMOCRATIC vote, and if hes that interested then needs to get out on the streets year in year old campaigning for an indy run council and get the
majority then he can be mayor.
Me, I think heres more to life than than this anyway - keith
thanks for your post, the whole thing has left me very
confused.
it all seems very machiavellian.
yesterday, in the mercury, it stated that gordon cowan had the nomination from the labour town councillors.
seems that they got it right.
- O.K. Keith, I think I have that now - it's NOT members of the (local) Labour party who decide on who should be Mayor, but ONLY Labour Town Councillors ?
Thanks for
the clarification.
Roger - That of course is not true roger. But don't let truth get in the way of this. If it were then why can't we have
a truly open vote - or better still a closed ballot. That would shake it up!
By the way I have never said I wanted to be Mayor. I agree with most postings here that it is a very busy job - much to be admired - and has little
political significance - thats why I wonder why there is so much to do over it . For my part I have a very busy business to run in a difficult economic world - what I do do is support whatever mayor is in place and on that my record can
be checked.
D
What is to be deplored is that the vote should be for the best person and allow all councillors to be considered. It isn't. - Latest news
on the grapevine is that Gordon did indeed stand for Mayor here in Dover but the group of 4 as mentioned by Keith earlier jumped ship and voted independantly...or to put it another way didnt vote for Gordon. The women's vote went with
Sue Jones. Looks like girl power is taking over! So much for the 'Mister Mayor' thing.
Also local Labour Leader at DDC Ben Bano has made it to Deputy Mayor in Deal. So its all happening. Ben did join this forum too but so far
sadly has declined to post anything. - ...Just another symptom of our ever-decreasing democracy and freedom if you ask
me... - well paul, reading that bit, and adding in others comments, it all sounds like the interests of the town are coming a long way after personal issues.
is it a
legal thing that the mayor must be a town councillor? - Howard at the moment Yes,there is a movement to make a Mayor directly elected as it is in London,and I
believe if 5% of the population canvass the DDC then I think it could happen.The directly elected Mayor though would be a District Mayor I believe. - Roger
You well know how it all works, please don't make out yuoutr thick cos yor not.
Your aware the labour town councillors have every right as the majority party to put forward a nomination as can the indies and the 1
tory.
Then at the council meeting all the cllrs on the town council vote for the pertson they want.
This system is no diffrent to the one your in Roger on the District where you put forward your nominations, labour theres
and sometimes so does the Lib dem.
a democratic vote is taken.
So please Roger, posters are not stujpid, please give them a little respect!! - interesting stuff john, i cannot see 5% canvassing the council though.
i do not know anyone that is aware of this movement.
it is difficult enough to get 20% actually voting at town council elections, with all the
present publicity. - HOWARD/JOHN
The question maybe needs to be do we want this method?
As we have said earlier we already have 3 councils
Maybe an
alternative would be to get the town councils to take on more of the work of KCC/DDC and then in time do away withy KCC or DDC
But that would take a lot of planning and work, and i don't think the 3 councils are ready for
that.
I actually feel decisions should be made as local as poissible
and the Town council should and would have to play a large part in it.
I still fink having so many cllrs needs changing
JOHN
I don't
support unitaries at mo as that just takes decisions even further away do we realy want to chance having someone in reading or Cornwall making decisions for Dover
I think not.
Before any unitaries come about you will see tory
run KCC object to it.
But good to see the debate
- Realistically, internet voting might capture 5%?
- We
have already been down this route before .In 2000 DDC voted to have the cabinet system with an elected leader albeit that leader comes from within the ruling party .The first cabinet was under a Labour administration.That was when the
scrutiny committees were formed and I was chairman of one for three years .WE used to have three scrutiny committees now we are down to two .In 2003 the number of councillors on DDC was reduced wards were merged .This saw the lose of
Barton Ward always a strong Tory ward ,now its divided between St Radigunds and Buckland .Its the rural areas where the Tories have the majority .Deal did change though last time round .I think it was early nineties when the idea of
unitarities was discussed.It involved a lot of meetings.Its back on the agenda but in a different form??Cornwall have done away with their district councils .It will come as the money does not stretch .THe government of the day keep
bringing in new schemes but under fund the councils .The concessionary bus fares is one ,now we have the free swimming .People donot want services cut .Cabinet members who are paid more or less work full time .We did take a pay cut this
year didnot see a mention of that anywhere . - Having been down a route several years before does not rule out the need for current change. Re-hashing prior changes
is not a substitute for intelligent examination of potential development now. It is a conversation well worth having, partly because changes do seem to have been made by the people who have vested interests and with less than comfortable
accountability and transparency. Clearly we do not want services cut, but that should not prevent proper discussion around these issues, and there will always be potential to trim services and develop better ones - it is the evidencing
of need and allocation of budgets that make the difference. - Before you gret into unitaries it should not be formed in a way that just keeps political control for 1 party or
another.
That cearly was the basis put forward by the political parties last time round, although they didnt come clean on it.
It should be whats best for the residents of
Dover. - Bern,
The Leader and Chief Excutive are always having fruitful discussions .with other agencies .News is released to the public for consultation as when
required .It costs money to keep re organising The council was trimed down by cutting three chief officers from the establishment then a further reduction was made by the now ruling group .believe you me we are trimed to the bone .
WE
donot have directors just Heads of Service .Watch this space for further movements .Housing is high on the agenda at present .Lots of consulltation.
- Sue - have you
been given some PR lessons?! One suggestion, though - short pithy sentences only work when they either reveal or totally obscure. - I know I'm not thick
Keith (pedantic maybe), but it was stated that members of the Labour Party decided on who would be Mayor and of course members of the Labour Party are not all Councillors.
If you had said in the first place that only Labour Town
Councillors decide, then I wouldn't have had to question it.
Roger - Yes Bern .I have been taught the old trick .Keep the answers short and
just keep repeating the message .In the end people get fed up and dont bother to question again .
Works well when under fire .
- Doesn't do
much for effective or open communication though, does it? I realise that isn't the aim, though. - Sue, joking or not should you really answer Berns questions like that??? It
seems to me all he was asking for was a polite answer from you and not the political mumbo jumbo answers we normally get off our local council. ??? - jasper
i think that
it was oscar wilde that said "a triumph of optimism over experience", he was referring to people who married more
than once.
when a politico is in a corner they tend to woodenly recite what they have been told to say, then
repeat it until the opponent is climbing up the walls in frustration.
incidentally, bern is a woman, i believe. - Howard, last time I looked that was the
case........ - Yes Howard that is correct .What we are all wondering is it Benedette or Benice ??
- couldnt possable say i havent met the younge lady yet.88p for a bath plug where did she get it from
harrods. - Howard .... my point was i thought the way she answered the question was not right, why oh why cant people in these sort of jobs just give a honest answer instead of
fobbing people of all the time.
I can hear you now Howard "on what planet would that be on then" i agree haha - Jasper ,I wasnt aware a question had been asked .I
thought the discussion was on PR I told you how it is we are taught to repeat the same answer if we dont want to give out info . - My question is why is her husband
getting £24.000 a year and what for? I thought she was the elected one? - As usual Sue you miss the point, i was pointing out that you never answer any question
that is asked of you. The PR or fobbing off by councils and its members is if you (in your words) keep the answers short and repeat until you wear them down is disgusting to admit.
My point is your an elected person who is here
to help Dover out of its crises and if i for instance was to ask you a question you didnt like you would repeat repeat repeat until i gave up.
Doesnt that say a lot for the lot of you in power !!!! NOT
- Gary that would be intresting to find out what her husband is getting that money for in this climate wouldnt it? Mind you im sure with the political spin they put on
it, it will seem to be justified???? - This MP's pay argument is getting boring now, can we change the subject?
- Sure Binky, it all changes with time. Remember if you have an exciting topic to talk about please feel
free to post about it. Any topic welcome.
Some new pictures coming soon taken at the Carpathian last night. The Carpathian is a new Hungarian restaurant just opened in Dover. They are genuine Hungarian too, you wanna try writing
their names down!lol But a very nice group of people showing some real faith and commitment to Dover. But more on all that later. - I think it is quite alarming and
very disappointing to hear that our Home Secretary (what ever party is in power) is charging us, the tax-payer, for her husband watching adult movies and even for the cost of a bath-plug can you believe.
Doesn't it just show what
contempt they hold us all in ?
It's not the cost of the plug, or the movies, it's the principle - have principles dropped so low now ?
Roger - What’s more worrying Roger is the length of time it has been going on, introduced by Thatcher’s Government many moons ago, I believe?
Go on Boys "spend spend spend" she said. - the new top picture looks like a line up of the most wanted crims,oops sorry most munchies
rouges. - Well that's put me in the brown sticky-stuff hasn't it !
From a quick momentary kiss, the photo makes it look like a long lingering one, which it wasn't.
A great evening and great food provided thanks to Szabi, his fiancee, sister and brother; they were great hosts too.
The beef in the Goulash was soooooooo tender, so was the pork and chicken.
A big Thank You also to
Councillor Diane Smallwood, a graceful and warm-hearted Mayor and Lady, who gave a lovely welcome and speech.
Hope to go there again soon and I think many there booked tables for future dates.
Well done the Carpathian
restaurant.
Roger - roger what can i say !!
- we are now seeing you in a new light roger.
as you say, the meat
was so tender there!!!
tsk tsk - That resturant article is making me feel Hungary. Question- I notice that there has been a two feet wide channel cut out
into the promenade quite near to the Eastern docks. The concrete that has been used to fill in the long hole is quite uneven. Is the intention to completely resurface that area of the prom or is that the finished article? If it is the
finished work then in places it presents a hazard to walkers unaware of the dips and bumps. - Roger - sounds excellent , what are the prices like? How much did your meal
cost? - Localview - it was an excellant evening.
The Carpathian offer two-course lunches for £5. Evenings are normal prices, but above normal quality.
Check
out their website: www.carpathianrestaurant.com. they have all their dishes and prices on there.
Roger - Yes indeed, it was a lovely evening
at The Carpathian on tuesday evening. Many thanks to Szabolcs, Noemi, Akos and Andrea for their kind hospitality. I will certainly be going back to sample more of their delicious food. The very best of luck to them.
- Will be giving this a try, somthing different is always welcome. I see the same old faces are getting a "free lunch " as usual
- Can anybody explain where the Carpathian is ????
- Well Jasper...you know what they say
"There's no such thing as a free
lunch!"
But yes I can let you know where it is. Come under the Townwall St underpass heading seaward and its the first building immediately to your right as you emerge. Formerly the Sea Breeze. The sign is faily small as I
remember but thats the location. - Thanks Paul, think i will pay it a visit just to see. Your not wrong about the free lunches, just a shame more people cant
benefit except the same old faces ???? - Jasper
There was a limit to the number of people who
could be invited; it couldn't be open to all, I had to use my judgement on who to invite and those likely to be able to attend and dine there.
The purpose was not just to give people a "freebie", but to give them a sample of
the Carpathian's food so as to encourage them to book tables for the future - this I understand, in many cases, has been achieved.
Roger - Visited their website and pleased to see that Goulash was on the menu..lovely.
- Mike McFarnell, that well-known local movie-maker has sent me a link to a short movie
he made of the launch of the Carpathian on Tuesday.
That grand orator and public speaker - the Forum's very own Terry Nunn, has done a superb job of voice-over.
Thanks guys.
I'm not sure how to make the link live
on ths section, but here it is.
dover-film.com/2009DoverFilm.html
Can you make it a live-link Paul ?
Roger - Roger
my
point was the same old faces always go why not invite some youth or some elderly not just council memebers, mayors and labour rights !!!! And it is free to you all, lets be honest that's the reason you all go.
Go round schools
give them a taste of Carpathian or nursing homes? - I agree Jasper,surely same old faces,conspiring towards their own interests,Dover moving forward Dover held in
stasis. - The point of such openings is to introduce the business to the people who will spead the word and use it. There is no free lunch. I went back yesterday and spent enough
to justify the freebie! and as I am an author of published Restaurant guides they are quite keen to get their name around. I dont charge for that so they have the value and I am passing the name around when I go anywhere.
so it
isnt as stated below- Publicity is what keeps business going and they told me yesterday that they have already seen returns from many of those that visited.
When they are up and running and decide to do something for free then I
am sure they will give it away to those who cannot give back, but for now that it how they get started == and Roger did a great job - as he always does. - The publicity, photos
and editorial on Doverforum, has already stood them in great steed which they are very happy with. I shall be booking a table for next week so looking forward to
it. - Thank you David - much appreciated.
Jean and I went there Thursday lunchtime and I had the Chicken with Tarragon and vegetable soup, followed
by gammon - a big gammon too and so tender, for £5.00 for two courses; Jean had pate (she had to ask for more toast to use the pate up) followed by fish and chips.
We hope to go back next week in the evening to try the Hungarian
Goulash - brillaint on Tuesday.
Roger - How about may be next time giving some well deserved publicity to the Dover Soup Kitchen and it's
great workers.It could be that the cuisine is not so good,but as they say publicity is the oxygen of debate.Discuss real Dover social issues and help change them,this is "real politik"NOT party politics.
- 'Real Dover social issues'. One very real problem for Dover is the number of small (and not so small) businesses that are closing which lessens the amount of visitors, and
their money, coming into the town. The opening of a new business is therefore something to both celebrate and to publicise in every way possible. I am well aware of the good work done by the soup kitchen and have been to see it in
operation but I would rather see the need for it eliminated and a big step towards this is to encourage new business into the town. The Carpathian did so well on their launch they have already gained a lot of much needed publicity and
repeat business from many of those of us that attended. - It is good to see some one prepared to sink money into a new venture .This business has replaced one that
was already there so we havent actually gained another business.
I agree with the comments made about the soup kitchen it is sad that there is a need for this but the need will increase .
This is not doom and gloom but a true
reflection of what is actually happening .Until this country gets back to making and exporting goods we will never move forward .For too long we have had people living off the backs of others,plus the good old nanny state which does not
encourage people to work
When i first was widowed all those years ago I made a choice .I stayed at home to raise my children .My husbands pension was enough to see us ok however I thought to mysef why should I take a job from a
school leaver when I could do with out holidays and fine living
The children had a mum at home and they in turn have been well educated and now treat Mum to all those things I never had when they were young .
Sorry to drift away
from this new restruant but some home truths have been said by others on this subject .i do hope they will open their doors to a few people who are needy .
- A
couple of good points raised there.
I agree that the Carpathian replaced the SeaBreeze, but if the (new) owners of the Carpathian hadn't been willing or able to open it, it would have remained closed.
I couldn't agree
more Sue about the manufacturing and wealth creation needed to turn this country around; it seems that more and more people are turning to the State and benefits as way of life.
At the moment, a great proportion of them have no
choice, so that's not through laziness, but the whole system needs to change to encourage entrepreneurship, giving them enough money left over after all the essentials have been paid - currently, the need to be able to pay just the
essentials in some cases is necessary.
Too many people are still worried about job-security to be spending too much money, or taking loans, so until a lot of that job-security returns (and the Banks start lending again), we won't
be going anywhere.
I agree Chris, that the number and regularity of shops closing, is worrying - it will take a long tiome to fill those (metaphorical) holes in the High Street - at the moment, the businesses are on their own and
don't feel there is anyone to turn to for support, help or even reassurance.
J, what are you suggesting ?
If you feel the soup-kitchen needs more publicity or more money, there's nothing wrong with organising a get-
together to raise awareness, maybe all your friends (or other people) might like to say pay £5.00 for a bowl of soup and some bread and publicise it to raise money.
Isn't the soup-kitchen organised by the Salvation Army ? maybe
it needs to be discussed with them.
As Chris has stated, it's more a case of removing the reasons for its need.
Roger - I and my friends
are already helping the soup kitchen and were some of the sponsors of Emmaus. Both need different kinds of help. but are of course worthy functions.
The people in your pictures do many things other than this but are the ones that
get off their butts and go out to do something - not just criticise without the full facts. Dover has suffered from too much of that. And they are prepared to stand up and be counted! - All very worthy of praise,however lets galvanise and make Dover the place it deserves to be.We can not afford to get lost in a mythos of our own making,to move forward we must have
the courage and wit to challange social injustice where ever it is found,be that homelessness,despair,greed, and challange your own preconceptions.As we know debt plus fear =compliance - I dont know who you are J But i agree with your postings .We all need to look at ourselves and question why we do things .I find it quite disturbing that some people will always fall by the wayside whilst so many dont see the
real challenges that face our society .
We have to learn to respect and realise not everyone can live in wonderful homes ,drive posh cars etc .We can however try to help to aspire and be proud of who we are and to have a sense
of pride .
No one person is better than the next person that they meet we can always spend a few minutes to make someones day . - Does that include chavs who
want to watch giant TVs?
Please know that I am only teasing...........
J - with you there. Challenge and confidence with a broad brush of courage are good assets in the move
forwards. - The point of such openings is to introduce the business to the people who will spead the word and use it. Quote from David H
Why isn't Miss Dover in the
picture ? Was she invited?
I know that the carnival court spend all year handing out leaflets for local companies to help promote their business. - I expect we will be
seeing you all out there in Pencester on wednesday in go-faster shorts and double shockproof kneepads doing endless pirouettes and double-hernia backflip splitzers, and all to catch the eye of the gobsmacked passing public. Sounds as
though it has the potential to be a tad painful...but fun for sure! - paul
i understand that our bern will be donning the lycra for this event.
despite that it should
be successful for two reasons.
1) giving our teen skaters a target to aim for during the school holidays.
2) the play area next to it will be made available for the day to the age group it was meant for. - Howard, I have just pinged myself into last years spandex and am up for the challenge. I will be handing out dark glasses as a precaution.
The skate park looks fabbo,
as does the playpark next to it. Your original idea of a parkie to lok after it is still a good one, but I am not confident it will be taken up, sadly. Let's hope it is a success, it should be!! Perhaps "success" is relative, and we
should be seeing "success" through teenage eyes? That might involve a little graffiti - as long as there is no substantial damage, perhaps we could live with that? - Well
the skatepark was quite busy this morning with BMX's, skateboards etc..maybe kids getting in some practice for tomorrows jamboree. No sign at all, you will be pleased to hear, of either spandex or lycra...but no helmets either. Helmets
essential tomorrow. - Bern you are so right, wwe tend to look at things from our own point of view and form decisions upon what we consider to be for the best. We should allow
the teens a bigger voice and to have some say in what they would like, and I am sure it would not be continual events based upon the second world war. - interesting stuff
from bern and dave there
i have long banged on about making the bandstand available at weekends and school holidays to a school age band to practice.
all the other teens(and some of us oldies) would crowd the place out.
- Dover Youth Theatre are running their Easter workshops this week, which will culminate in a FREE show in the Town Hall on Thursday 9 April at 7.30pm, entitled from
Classic to Contemporary West End and Broadway.
Twenty-five lucky local kids have been working with West End Musical Director Andrew Freisner and two professional fight choreographers from Swordplay to put on, what promises to be,
an outstanding show. The kids are not being charged for these workshops, and as I said, there is no charge to come and watch the show. The event is costing DYT somewhere in the region of £6,000, and a little over £3,000 has been raised
by sponsorship donations from Dover Town Council, KCC, The Silly Committee, London Fancy Box, Pharos Insurance and Bradley's.
To help raise some more money, DYT are holding a raffle at the show, and therefore need prizes. They
already have some donated by Curiosity of Dover, Turner Models, Stuff, B & H Fireplaces, The Paint and Decor Centre, John Angell, and Ann and Pam's Florst. I know times are tough, but if you could donate a small something they would be
really grateful - all you need to do is drop it into the Town Hall from about 12 noon on Thursday; or if you are coming to see the show, just bring it with you.
Thanks.
PS. A big thank you to the lovely lady (name unknown,
as she refused to give it to me) who was sitting outside the Salle Verte on Monday - when she heard for whom I was collecting raffle prizes and what they were doing, she put her hand into pocket and gave me a tenner. What a
star! - Is this allowed what with all our crazy health and safety concerns these days? Shouldn't those ramps be made from sponge? Do the users wear helmets, protective pads,
safety gloves and boots, and cotton-wool padding? Aren't the slopes a bit high? Is that concrete surrounding everything, a bit hard isn't it? What if they fall? Is there direct ambulance access? Where are all the disclaimer signs and
safety notices? I can't see any fire extinguishers! And no first aid kits either! Shut it down immediately! - Why not some money us that don't have kids ?
"Every
mum knows that the run up to birth can be an expensive and sometimes stressful time."
Why have a baby if you can't afford it ! - Yes you are right Local Man it is probably
unusual to see things like this go on in these times of Health & Safety concerns, but glad to see the DDC obviously have things under control so full marks to them. I think there is an initiative of slightly more risk taking allowed now,
more so than say a few years back when several well known events were scuppered through insurance costs as I remember.
Was hoping to get over there but due to one thing and another beyond my control wasnt able to. So hopefully
somebody can let us know how it went...and hopefully someone might have taken a photo? - " why have a baby if you cant afford it"
ah well now JC thats a
huge question isnt it. why indeed? But I think the above payment mentioned in editorial is just for helping out with costs and is a countrywide initiative, although it just refers to Kent in the piece above.
But as a seperate
aside, dont a lot of people nowadays go ahead with having babies without ever thinking of costs. We have the highest teenage pregnancy rates in Europe and I think its probably fair to say that most of the costs of these pregnanacies and
beyond will be picked up by the state. Not all by any means but probably a substantial amount. - It's not just teens!! There is never a good or bad time to have a baby, and you will never be able to afford it! I
guess the difference is that when we (I am really talking about my own family I suppose) do have babies we work darned hard to support them, don't moan or expect someone else to support them for us or provide for them or for us, and
just get on with it! - I forgot to say: and we love them and care for them and support them and would do anything for them!!
- "Every month around 1659 women in Kent celebrate the birth of a new child." ...around 1659, not 1658.5 then?
With regard to the skatepark, insurance costs can be high but regerd to health and safety, there really
isn't as much nonsense as the likes of the Daily Mail would have us believe. It's almost as amusing as the "...It's PC gone mad" comment.
- 195 quid is not a fortune, if
some of it is spent by the mum to be on things that benefit the incomer, must be a good thing. - Oh dont we have it so easy, £195 per baby, well why cant they put it
toward not having the children in the first place. When we had our children we couldnt afford them but by jove i have toiled and worked hard all my life to support them. I have never claimed benefit or dontations and i am proud to say i
havent.
I know everyone is different but what with so many teenage pregnancys in Dover and the money it takes the goverment to support them, doesnt it make there lifes just that bit too easy. If they want anything get off there
bums and work like the rest of us had to??? - I guess it is difficult to think our way into someone elses position, and circumstances are different for everyone. Many young teens
now are growing up in post-Thatcher Britain and reaping the rewards of the freshly created "me" society. - Further bit of info: There are 65,000 births per month in the UK.
This Payment of £190 does not affect the other endless benefits available....all massively taken up of course. This payment goes to every birth and does not depend on household income.
So all and all there are very generous
benefits available to the pregnant. I personally in my one time position long ago of employer, came across individuals who used pregnancy as a way into benefits and housing. I dont know how widespread that is but I certainly came across
it. But I wouldnt for a moment want to tar everyone with that particular brush. - jasper
you must be the only parent i know that never claimed child benefit. - It looks more like an old photo of The Crypt burning down.
- paul
it was atina house that was
gutted, the carpet shop does not look much better.
the hairdressers was closed today, but it may just have been water damage. - Thanks guys. Many thanks for
that info Howard as I didnt get up there today. Well done. Top Man. So yes indeed that must have been very close to where The Crypt once was. - And there was me thinking it could
be a properly owned by a certain JG.... ? - its the carpet shop thats gutted,atina house smoke damaged.had a good look this afternoon.the carpet shop was being borded up while i was
there. - you are such a cynic pw.
no-one else would have thought of that, would they?? - Nice photo
Paul - saw that sunset but wasn't in the right spot to get a good shot. - Thanks PW a good sunset is always satisfying when you get it right but yes indeed
its all about being lucky enough to be in the right position at the time. Hope you enjoy the latest pictures of the ponies above too, just added now.
Nice up there on the cliffs if you get a bit of sun but watch out for those
costs...see the editorial piece above. - George Cross fundraising weekend at the Grand Shaft. Four willing participants are staying in the Grand Shaft 6pm Friday 10th April to 6pm
Monday 13th April in war like conditions.
There are displays of memorabilia, clothes and other items all to provide a glimpse of life in wartime Dover.
We are raising funds for the George Cross for Dover campaign to get
the award awarded to Dover and to create a memorial garden at St James' Church in the town as a memorial to those whose lives (including the civilians) were lost during both World Wars.
Please do support us. The location is "The
Grand Shaft", Snargate Street, Dover
Thanks for your support. - Those prices are absolutely disgusting! How the hell do we encourage tourists to
visit these places with prices like that? I had thought of spending a day up there but not now - there are other places to park and can take our own refreshment. - What are
you talking about................? - Bern see the editorial above on costs ..directly underneath the ponies.
- Thats a
great array of photos there, PaulB, lovely shots of the ponies and a great sunrise and I love the grainy nightshot, it has a 'film noir' feel .
Its lovely up there at the National Trust cafe on a sunny day, its a great shame
that they don't have a special discount price for Dover residents. - It was only £1 a couple of years back and £1.50 when I was last up there. £3, now
that is extortionate ! - Thanks PaulB - D'oh!!!
- Well, while the parking does seem a bit steep, the entry to the site is
free of charge if one is on foot/bike, etc.
Joining the National Trust gives free parking there and elsewhere, and a heap of other truly super places to visit too (next nearest, the South Foreland Lighthouse). They've an offer
for online joining at the moment, for around £35 for a year's adult membership. They are, incidentally, really helpful for people with disabilities, and the necessary companion gets in free with the NT Admit One card.
As
interest, since the NT took over, have the "incidents" that used to occur up there diminished, does anyone know? - Marmalade. It is a yes to that but if the gate was not there, it would all come back.
vicM - Jusr got back from the white cliffs with my dog gave the
ponies a apple each they know me after all the years we have been going up there happy Easter to you all.VicM - Nice pictures PaulB, after seeing the photos of the ponies I
think I'll trek up there this weekend and pay them a visit. - I have just got back in I also feed the ponies at the bay and have been doing now for over 12years today like
most times they were waiting for us. - seventeen quid for a snack for two????
mind you, last time we went up, a picnic was carried by me, by the time the ponies had
got wind of it, a procession followed us.
they must have known about the rip off at the cafe. - It was a real pleasure on a lovely sunny day to go up and visit the guys, for what is such a worthy campaign as always good to see people care about keeping the towns
history alive.
So well done you guys and to the Teddy who ever you belong to and thanks paul for allowing me to give your money away lol!!!! - I have just got back
from the white cliffs and feeding the ponies.
They left the gates open last night, you should see it today what a mess beer cans, take away food +lots of rubbish all over the place,and all that over onenight that is why that gate must
Not be left open.
VIC m - Dover should be proud of these guys - demonstrating real energy and enterprise and getting Dovers campaign as widely publicised as
possible. Nice one fellas - we salute you! - Absolutely great, you fellows, and my, don't you look handsome. Congratulations indeed, and bless you for your tenacity,
determination, altruism, and downright good sense of fun! You gotta love these guys!
Our WWII civilian casualties are remembered by the Commonwealth War Graves, and are also in the Book of Rememrbance, kept at Dover Museum (the
Book of Remembrance is the WWII equivalent of our War Memorial outside Maison Dieu House), but only one of our Great War civilian casualties is recorded on a memorial anywhere in Dover. That's little Francis Hall, killed at the age of
seven, while on his way to Sunday School.
But every one of Great War civilian casualtiesis remembered and commemorated on Dover's Virtual Memorial, at www.doverwarmemorialproject.org.uk, as are all our WWII civilian casualties
and our service casualties (and we are still identifying more). There are photos and much information, from their relatives, friends, and comrades, and from contemporary sources.
Do please visit Dover's Virtual Memorial, and see
who our George Cross lads in the cave are remembering, and perhaps get a glimpse too into why Dover so richly deserved the George Cross.
Well done, you lads. Hugs to you all! :-)
- Is the man in the Army uniform a war veteran?
- Hello Robert, yes I expect Alan Taylor is a veteran of some
campaign or other as he certainly has the demeanour of the soldier. Im not certain though, so perhaps someone might be able to let us know. - no just ex medical corps.he does
like dressing up though.enough said. - Ex medical corps, Discharged 86 now working on Battlefeilds of Europe hopeing to find as many of the missing as poss. And Max dressing up
as you put it is our way of showing Respect for our fallen Heros, I can remember you wearing stockings and a mini skirt on the streets of Bulgum and still beening turned down. - ah your secret is out now alan dont you borrow your wifes under ware.
- Last day of this
current page and then we will lay Easter to rest. But I will then copy the page to the All Recent Features section for archive purposes. So if you want to make frontpage comment on any of the events above, particularly on the exploits of
the intrepid cavers, then please do. Have just added a Press Release to the editorial above issued by the guys themselves. - the 3 amigos done good.rowland rat
turned up sunday night but no ghosties turned up shame really. - French Fishermen's Strike
Having just seen the evening news it appears that there is a large number of
passengers stuck at the Port of Dover due to the blockades in France. I wondered if perhaps any of your readers could offer accommodation/washing facilities to some of these people, especially those with children, the elderly and
disabled. Surely there will be people with a spare room - even a spare settee for the night. I know the blockades are coming down for a couple of hours later tonight but not everyone is going to be able to get a place on the ferry.
Perhaps P&O and maybe a local councillor could liaise to put the two together.
Kind regards - nice thought, but if they left the docks,
they may lose their place in the queue for the next available ferry.
the people on the m20 have got it a lot worse. - christine,its down to the ferry companys
to provide accomadation for travellers,on saying that if the travaller cheaked the ferry firms website they would have seen a phone number for contact.they allso could transfer all car and coaches onto the tunnel and thats both
ways. - max
not sure if you are correct there, airlines have to arrange
sustenance, there are moves afoot for the ferry companies to do so, they are resisting quite naturally.
incidentally the ffff are arranging to block the tunnel tomorrow. - howard,i have had experiance of this,we as the traverling public have certain rights.if the ferry carryers ie p&0 seafrance etc cant full fill there obligations to carry you
on there vessals they are obliged to make alternative arrangements.is that help full howard. - There should be information on guest houses, down at the Port - there always used to
be when the two groups had their own brochure, now there's only one group represented (as the cost is becoming so high to advertise in the brochure), it's a bit one-sided.
There are available (quality) bed-
spaces.
Roger - roger its there loss,there were 2 or 3 hotels down near the eastern docks a few years back that were under
used. - There is now no Information Desk at the Eastern Docks thanks to Bob and his cohorts so not sure how any info would be passed to those who require
it. - Its amazing that a countries ferry service to the continent can be held to ransom by 16 fishing vessels which not only affects the stranded passengers but could
terminally damage small haulage companies and suppliers. I believe that the strike was lifted last night but, for how long before it happens again. - It took me two hours to
get from Dover to Ramsgate yesterday because lorries were trying to use the Ramsgate port to get to Belgium. What a nightmare - A very well done to the
current lineup of DCAL girls who all step down shortly. As you can see from the editorial feature above, the current court have now performed their final engagement..at the Mayor's Civic reception. In fact the Mayor herself steps down
shortly too, so its all happening in a kind of tandem.
But hark! Just look at those collection of trophies above. It clearly was an excellent year for the girls under the ever guiding hand of Mandie Sehmbi. Loren Selby was a very
pleasant and amiable Miss Dover this year and all the other girls fulfilled their role very well too. - its taken that plus to get from capel to aycliffe in the
past. - A lovely picture of everyone .Well done girls and the Mayor
- Wow! Well done to DCAL. Thats a fine
collection of trophies which will take a lot of buffing, Mandie you will need a large bottle of silver polish and don't forget to order the large tin of elbow grease lol! Congratulations to the Court of 2008, you have all done Dover
proud. - What a beautiful picture of the Court, and how lovely everyone looks. Well done, all you ladies!
- My that year seems to have wizzed past so quickly well done girls and mandie 52 awards must be a record lets hope that continues through the comeing year well done to you all.
- Congratulations indeed to Mandie and the Court - 52 awards; that's one a week.
All the girls, from Rosebud (Natascha) to the Queen herself deserve special
praise.
Great promotion for Dover.
Roger - It is a very well done to the D,C,A,L, When you see them in the photos looking like
that, I think of all the work put in behind them, dressmaking,and geting them to the events, well done and you are doing alot for the Town please keep going.
Vic M - In a thread on free swimming it is stated that this is not
being subsidised. If this is the case can anyone explain then why this morning I received a letter telling me the monthly fee is going up around 10%? Surely then the people aged between 16 and 60 are subsidising
this - Well Done to Mandie and all the team at DCAL and especially the Court of 2008 thats a great selection of trophies.
- Indeed they probably are as taxpayers Localview subsidising things but its a government led inititive as I understand it, and of course they, the government, decide where and how to
spend the taxpayers money. In a feature on page 2 of the Dover Express, Gwyn Prosser MP for Dover, has expressed dissatisfaction that the option for kids wasnt taken up here in Dover. Some Tories point out that we are the lucky ones here
in Dover to have taken up any free swimming at all, stung as they are by this criticism from Gwyn. Some areas have not taken up the free swimming option which is a bit miserable.
In my view the over 60's have done their bit and
free swimming is just a small reward for services rendered over many years. - Many thanks for all your praise of Miss Dover and her courts. Without a doubt they have been pretty
awesome ambassadors for Dover. As Vic quite rightly says, there is an awful lot that goes on behind the scenes to make sure the girls get to events etc.
The 52 awards is a record for DCAL, but are only the icing on the cake for a
team of girls who have worked their socks off all year helping to promote Dover.
Next weekend we have a visiting carnival court staying in town all the way from Corby. We are the only carnival organisation they visit in the South
East, hopefully when they all meet up next Staurday we shall be able to show our visitors some of the beauty we have in Dover.
In addition to this I would like to thank Penny Farthing guest house for providing a discount for our
guests, especially in such hard times.
Our girls have been a credit to our town, and I am personally very proud of each and every one of them for being so committed to promoting Dover in the most positive light.
Anyone who
wishes to attend selection next Sunday is more than welcome to do so. Come along and show your appreciation to a great group of girls who will soften the hardest of hearts with their big stand down scheduled for 9pm. You are all welcome
- Totally agree with you PaulB about the over 60's having free swimming - I think the issue is that it has become busier at off peak times, therefore roster changes have
occurred and additional staffing hours are required. This cost has been passed on to existing members - so to state as some are this is subsidised through government is not strictly the
case - Hot Press!!! Today I have received some signed goodies which include photos, CD, and Tour programme all signed by Status Quo to use as a raffle prize at
selection.
Francis himself was trying to juggle his tight schedule to attend but due to studio time he is not able to join us, however the goodies will be really useful in helping us raise much needed funds, so many thanks to my
good friend Chris for sorting it all for us, and status Quo for thinking of DCAL x - Charm works wonders, Mandie. Nice
one! - Bit of a coup there Mandie getting those Status Quo goodies for raffling off. Should help with the fundraising for sure. Perhaps now it could be Vic's chance to make a
bid and get close to the genuine article !!lol.. ah sorry Vic I couldnt resist.
But seriously though good luck with the Selection Event on the 26th. - graham has
pencilled in the date, just in case. - Don't think so Howard
- not a very realistic pic paul, you seem to have edited out the flying saucer.
supposed to be 15 billion quids worth of cuts in this.
wonder how this will hit the less well off.? - Ah well now y'see Howard, you and I, and possibly one or two others, know the secret of the flying saucer seen hovering over the castle recently....but I didnt think the
wider market was ready for this information. So it was washed out of the picture above. Didnt want to startle the population 2 days before the biggest Budget for years. The prospect of aliens coming here and taking our jobs is all too
real !!lol - That's a lovely image Paul. I'd like to paint that!
- Hi
Diana, ah yes its nice isnt it, the image above is a strange mixture of drawing painting and computer manipulation...such an amalgamation of method would probably be frowned upon in art circles, but it works well for computer
use.
The subject of course is great. - For those of you debating 'Who'd be a Policeman', please spare a thought for the wife and family of PC Gary Toms,
a Policeman killed doing his job. Full details can be found on a google search - there are many construction workers, seafarers, service people and countless others that die
doing their job.
why should police officers be treated any differently? - Interesting with the demise of the Harbour Board high on the agenda again,and a
group of individuals from out of the town going to get very rich on the back of this.I am still awaiting comment from our local politicians and worthys,apart that it is from Gwynn Prosser.The deafening silence i feel is indicative of the
apathy that this town wears like cloke.It could not be,could it ,that the local petit bourgeois have been encouraged into this silence could it. - J are you referring to the fact
that DHB are seeking privatisation? I sincerely hope that Gwynn will do everything in his power to prevent this happening, the Port is a Trust and that is how it must remain. The DHB are there to administer improve and maintain the Docks
and not as a commercial Company, they are destroying the legacy that they have been put in charge of. - M and J...I have a statement from Gwyn on this Port situation which will be
going up on this frontpage tomorrow. So yes Gwyn is fighting it, no doubt about that. - I am pleased to hear that PaulB, I look forward to reading it. The devestation that
Goldfield has caused already has led to a once proud organisation being becoming a laughing stock, we must hope he is stopped before our premier port falls into the hands of overseas speculators and is lost to this Country for
ever. - The impact of privatisation on the Port and it's environs would be generational.Do we have the temerity to stand by and do nothing,there are a few people who are going to
get very rich out of this, to the detriment of the vast majority.To speak of a legacy,you are now seeing the culmination of a policy of cynical greed,this is the true legacy,the same as the debacle that has engulfed the banking
system.There is a blatant disregard for the future of our town and it's economic viability,again i state my case where are the local politicians and the local "businessmen" who should in all senses stand opposed to this travesty.
- would i be correct in thinking that "j" and "m" are the same person?
failing that, are they just a well thought out double act? - There we are guys...the Gwyn Prosser statement is up and running above. Once again it seems plans are afoot to privatise the Port of Dover...it certainly wasnt popular last
time round so why has this problem reared its ugly head again. Comments are welcome.
Howard I beleive that J and M are two different peeps. Well there IP addresses are different
anyway. - New Subject BBC South East calling.
Shop closures in Dover.
Can anyone tell me how many shops have closed in Dover since the recession started. Last
September.
Please contact me on peter.whittlesea@bbc.co.uk - I think Howard has got it in one,Thought before self,but then to
paraphrase , a very well known individual "Camel, needles eye and richman".Do not be complacent,we can change the fortunes of our town,we need strength,compassion and understanding to undermine the "status que".We are one of the most
famous towns on Earth and our name still resonates with Freedom,do not compromise that. - Hello Peter - welcome to doverforum. Its a difficult one naming all the shops and when
they went out of business, as many were tethering on the brink before the recession. Also as its a long long stretch from the seafront to the tip top of London Road its hard to get hold of them all. let me have a stab at it working from
the seafront inwards...but its just off the top of my head, if anyone else can add to it please do.
The Seabreeze Restaurant
The Post Office and Shop
Two Estate Agents in Market Sq. dont remember the name of one but the
second one was Paul Browns..who went into the Letting business in Castle St instead.
Miles and Barr a third estate agent just inland from Market Sq
The Jokes and Novelty Shop
The Household bits and bobs shop.
Evans Outsize
shop
H Samuel jewellers
Florist opposite Boots
Woolworths ( bet you know about that one!)
...there will have been many more too, in side streets etc. But they are the ones in my immediate area. If anyone else can help out
please do. - port ot dover sell of seems to pop up every time a genral
election is near,all huff and puff from both major parties,if it happens watch the carp fly along with a few feathers. - charlie
Realy good one, local conservatives
like your beloved Barryw and PAUL wATTY DEAD against your campaign to stop the port privatisation.
Interesting change tho, glad u can adapt, it wasn't only local tho, the national conservative party also wanted to privatise the
port!!!!
it was an election pledge by the tories locally and nationally!!!!
Times are strange!!! - Keith,
People say politicians never listen. Well some of us do!
The buck stops with me. As for the national policy, I met with our Parliamentary transport team and the national policy has been changed. That was over a year ago.
There are, as I never tire of telling people, only two towns in
England with a name in three languages - London and Dover. I am passionate about Dover's future and my priority is to make this great town even greater! - I
hate to admit it but Charlie Elphick is talking a lot of sense, first the hospital gone now the port possibly for private ownership!!! what will become of Dover. It is dying on its feet and the goverment seem to want to speed this
process up.
I dont care who is in power they all make promises they cant or wont keep and all change their minds but surely local and national goverment has got to start taking notice. We ar on our knees !!! - Paul bit unfair about Seabreeze as it has changed hands not closed down,I was in there last night and the meal was superb.The Carpathian is a brave venture and worth supporting,good food and
at a resonable price. - Hi John yes I did think about that one and I think the BBC are actually looking for business failures. The SeaBreeze as a business did close down and they
all left town, as I understand it. The Carpathian is a new business that happened to open up in due course on the same site, but with a totally different remit than what went before. They didnt just keep the Seabreeze running. This was
my thinking behind saying the Seabreeze closed down.
Good luck to The Carpathian of course. Will pop down there myself before too long. - If you do not trust the blues or
reds then at the G/E VOTE FOR ME,.
Yes i will be standing again at the next G/E and funding it all by myself not like the blues or reds they have it all done for them, if they had to pay for their own would they still
stand?.
Vic M - I will be doing about 30.000 flyers with just me and my wife and the dog and again I will pay for them . will any of the others be doing that? (Its a
no to that).
vic M - well, at least we are clear about our 3 main candidates position on the port.
now the complicated part, will the labour party make their
national position clear?
secondly, will the local conservative party make their position clear?
the electorate will be interested to know the full story.
we know that gwyn and his team monitor this site, we also know
that paul and his team do likewise.
both sides are very astute at posting only when they think that electoral advantage is to be gained.
with less than 2 months to go before the euro and county council elections, who will be
first to reply? - The port belongs to Dover and must stay that way, it is time now for all of us to stand up to the D.H.B. and tell them"you have gone to far
now."
You must like me go to the public meeting in May and do like I have been doing now for some years get up and have your say.
There are other ways to,(1) The port must have h.g.v.s. geting to the port on time to get on the
ships, again like I have done in the past there are ways within the law to slow this up.
Vic M - Unfortunately Vic Bob Goldfield is not a man that will listen, he is a
dictator that rules by fear. He will move on with DHB as we knew it a distant memory and his pockets stuffed with cash from the privatisation. - Vic its very difficult to compete in
General Elections against the well oiled machines of the big parties. Only this week, apart and entirely seperately from the editorial input above, I had two seperate mailings from Charlie Elphicke to my address, and all looking very
good very colourful very polished.
Take a bit more time over your postings because they are a bit hard to follow. You need to get your message out so I would recommend a simpler approach, or just take your time on the basics. Im
not knocking anything here but hopefully helping. You are competing against tip-top level communicators.
The BUDGET: heard this gem on the radio4 this morning
a quote from Al Murray
"its nice to know that when your half
way through your pint you can stop drinking for the government, and start drinking for yourself!"
Further re Budget: it seems too that Mr Blair is disgusted at the 50% rise hike on taxes for the well off, if anything he may have
lowered taxes on the rich, so it says in the newspapers. Golly and Gosh, this doesnt half leave Alastair and Gordie out on a lonely limb. - At the last General Election I got
about 675votes this time I would like to think I can take that to over 2000, this could make it for the blues or take it away from them,any vote away from the big two is a vote for the public of Dover, over the pass 40years both of the
main partys have let Dover down, and you can all see that, but one thing is that old Vic Matcham is still here and has been from the 1940s I HAVE SEEN AND HEARD IT ALL FROM THE BLUES AND THE REDS and sorry I do not like what I have
seen.
So I will fight on and have my say at all the meetings when the time comes.
The reds got in last time but who had the headlines at the local meetings without much help?
Vic matcham
Vote for the person not the
party. - The privatisation policy of the present encumbent of Harbour House should galvinise all Dovorians.It should out weigh all regional and national politics,it should
also (and here's the hard bit)push egos and personal animosity into the background.Dover should be united in it's fight against the most blatant case of profiteering seen in along time.The Port is every "Dovorians"and as such we
should be consultated in a referendum over the course of it's future,not blinded by jargon or a few peoples avarice. - J let me play Devils Advocate for a moment as a wide eyed
foreigner and ask you and anyone else...where are all these benefits the Harbour under the current setup has brought to the town. We are sitting on a multi-million pound Harbour operation, with multi-million pound ships tooing and
froing, all with multi-million pound profit margins, yet our crumbling pavements are not exactly lined with gold. On the contrary, we have some of the worst poverty stricken delapidation in southern England. We have the poorest looking
shops and very little facilities for leisure or anything else.
Apart from throwing the humble citizenry a handful of manual jobs over the years, where are the benefits of keeping the Harbour setup as
is?? - I whole heartedly agree with you Paul,now is the time for some creative thinking.I know from first hand experience the disregard that senior Harbour Board Management
hold the town in,i believe in one report the town was described as a "run down hinterland".Now to me that smacks of breath taking arrogance.Why can we not as, local stakeholders, have a member on the board.As an aside,if the Port,which
in all reality has been built up by public funds even though generated by the Port it self,still public funds, would this have to be payed back to the public coffers. - I have
just been informed that some of the mooring personnel that were transferred to from D.H.B.at the begining of the month have been made compulsory redundent by P&O.All this after Mr Goldfields cynical proclaimation that this would not
occur.This is the Trustee of the future development of Port and with it the symbiotic development of the town. - Typical response from the Tories, given they have always wanted
and promoted the sell off of Trust Ports - Wake up people. PaulB - spot on.
- A letter send to me by the Dover Harbour
board.
Dear Cllr Matcham
Thank you for your letter of the 25th of June .I regret that we are no further forward with any plans for the Mote,s Bulwark.The position remains that the highways authority is opposed to any use of the
site which would generate additional traffic movements on and off the main road. I understand that in this situation it has the effective power of veto over any planning proposals.Consequently, we have not been able to identify a
commercial use for the property which would justify the investment necessary.
Nevertheless
, we do share your views that it would be good to see this site improved since it gives such a poor impression of Dover to passing traffic.
For this reason we WILL CONTINUE TO KEEP IT UNDER CLOSE REVIEW and you can be ASSURED THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO HELP if we could find a suitable justification,
The date of this letter 8th of July 2004, just the same today all talk,
say they will do one thing and then go the other way.
I rest my case. - The current Trust Port arrangements limit to £100k what can be spent outside the port.
A private company could spend much more but is likely to spend nothing.
So for the promise of a one off lump sum that might never be paid .... - Lovely picture of
Diane there.
Great War, Paul, dear. 23 April 1918.
More about the ceremony and about Dovorian casualties, such as Frederick Bowlt, can be found on The Dover War Memorial Project Virtual Memorial. - Whooops..bit of a slip there..thanks Maggie. Will update that now.
- Good photo of Diane in all her finery, Well Done
Terry! - are the loverly essmeralda wheres qousai modo when this was taken.lol.
- Vic - why a letter to the Harbour
Board about Motes Bulwak ?? It is owned by English Heritage and the road outide Highways Agency ????? - English Heritage do not own it at ground leval,I was talking at that time to
them,D,H,B, the K.Highways,and the agent for the owners,anyway nothing come it.Had ago again last year but no luck again. - As an ex Dover resident I am always interested
in what goes on in my old home town. For that reason I do regularly read your excellent magazine, usually quietly and without having my say as I no longer live there. However if I may I would like to give an opinion today.
Most of
the last messages are interesting, especially the ones concerning the proposed sell off of the port, but who the heck is this Vic Matcham? His messages make no sense at all to me and they are virtually unreadable because of his lack of
punctuation and poor spelling! I find it a little sad that someone like this can spoil what is actually a fantastic insight to the everyday comings and goings in Dover. Also the message from Max - what is that all about?!
Forgive me
for finding fault but I do hate to see something so good spoilt by a small minority. Congratulations Mr Boland for a very informative online magazine and long may it continue.
- Any hidden agendas here?
- that is exactly what i thought bern.
i think you will find it is a
poster from the forum. - So you mean the old Army Recruitment centre and not Motes Bulwark ?
The land owners there brought it for about 40k and wantn't to see
it for 400k so they won't let it go easily. The building there should also be listed as they date back pre-1850 and we offices to Guilford Battery and the RNAS seaplane station so are quite
historic. - Lovely photo of Diane there - she's been a good Mayor and a credit to Dover.
Good Luck Sue (barring any mis-haps of
course).
Roger - Marek was being modest in the main forum earlier, every court member mentioned how wonder Natascha is and how intelligent she is. That shy
(?!) little girl is a credit to them both. They all adore her and will miss her when she moves.
It was a great night, and we are all shattered! I am sure photos will be on their way later today (when I get them to Mandie!)
- Who is this "Secret" does anybody know?? Secret if you dont have anything positive to say dont post anything at all
!!! - PaulB - you are needed here!!!!
- Jenni
Thanks for your kind comments regarding Stinker aka Natascha.They
are very much appreciated.We had a super but exhausting day at the Town Hall.It was professionally managed and staged and kept perfectly to the timetable.
Does anyone know who the 2 girl professional camera and sound crew where
that were filming the proceedings? - Hi Marek. The young lady you are referring to is Libby Overton. She is a freelance camera /production company who are making a documentary on
carnival and what goes on to organise such events.
Lv Mand xxx - Have deleted those comments referred to..please only responsible comments as this is a family friendly
frontpage. Many thanks. - Well pop pickers, its truley fandabbydosie to see the pictures of BrionyB with the newshounds based in fabtastic Folkestone. Well, keelhaul me
barnacles! so the only Dover-based organ of journalistic wit is Doverforum! Trusty Irish Newshound PaulB of journalistic coups such as the famed Victorian Peckham Pancake Murders and the Balham Quisling Puzzler of Note to name but two,
will hopefully continue to keep us informed with local news. - lol! Barry WS I will do my best to keep the frontpage stories going especially if I continue to get a bit
of community co-operation....and if I use the word 'fabtastic' again you have my permission to shoot me on the spot!! - What beautiful girls! With these gorgeous winners I think Dover will win a lot of trophies again this year - well done all of you and well done to Mandie, you must be very
proud.
Good luck girls, not that you'll need it!
Love the photo - so colourful - who took it? - Hi Jacqui. Not sure who took the pic although I know I did send over a
whole batch to Paul B, so it may be one that was taken by Jenn.
It was an awesome day with more than 45 girls competing for just 7 places, and a record number of senior entries with 21 competing for the senior court.
The
picture above shows the DCAL 2009 senior court with our lovely friends from Corby, who came down Just for our selection.
The full list of winners are
Miss Dover Fiona-Ann Rosser
Senior Princesses Sofie Stroud & Sofia
Petrou
Junior Miss Dover Kayleigh Anderton
Junior Princesses Carris Ffrench & Keely Russel
Dover Rosebud Faith Campbell
It sure was an awesome night and as Barry said, the town hall was packed to the max.
- what happened to the Dover Express. I dashed out this morning expecting to see coverage of the Miss Dover selection night in the Dover express, and there was absolutly
NOTHING. I know that the carnival organisers sent in press stuff, so where is it?
Please don't give me excuses about space, they managed to stick a picture in of a DEAL princess, but not our home grown talent. Totally disgusted.
They should be ashamed. - Ah sorry to hear you were disappointed...but Im wondering something...and I meant to get round to saying this to Mandie but you know what its
like, a million and one things to do, but the pictures sent to me have break up in the pixelation. The faces are breaking up a bit.
I noticed this previously too, when Mandie sent the pictures out to the media recently, you know
the ones with all the trophies, Doverforum had them on the frontpage but nobody else used them at all. You can still see them in All Recent Features see menu. My feeling is that these pictures maybe wont reproduce well in the newspapers,
this maybe why they are not using them. The program being used on the pictures may not be appropriate.
This is just a tip...although Im just speculating here
obviously. - The picture with the trophies was on our website., I did let Mandie know about that.
I have not received anything about the selection night. If I
had of done I would have printed it. - Very colourfull picture of the DCAL girls look forward to meeting you all soon.
- Colette, thats a nice picture of our future Mayor Sue with her Daughter, the 'Girls, Really Had Fun'.
- Oh amazing
what a good bit of pampering will do for us ladies we had fun!!! - Well I dunno..it looks like The Ladies are taking over. You have the Ladies Annual Dinner at the Town
Hall, you have the Ladies Pampering at the Town Council, you have the Ladies power lunches at The Ramada, and the Ladies power evenings at The Churchill. You have the Ladies power trips to this and that. I mean where will it all
end..
Then you have a Lady Mayor, and a Lady Deputy Mayor, and thats going to duplicate itself shortly with another Lady Mayor and Deputy Mayor.
Its time us fellas put our foot down and demand that our dinner be on the
table...and on the table six o clock sharp!
:-) - Where will it all end, PaulB?
Going to the Ladies, of course! :-D - lol!! I am emaciated, emasculated, and am looking to be emancipated!!
I may have to throw myself under a horse at the Epsom
Derby! - i think Dover is quite lucky in having so many powerful and attractive ladies in positions of power and authority.
right thats the crawling done..you can tell
the wife is away and i'm on the scrounge for a meal....lol - Looks like a fab evening and I won't be able to resist when the next one is on. Bring on the
manicure - Really enjoyed the Pamper Evening - book me in for the next one and well done to the students from South Kent
College.
Linda - Yes Kathy, you must come to the next one for sure, it was really a great evening with all that pampering. By the way I love your new
hairstyle! - cheers :-)
- Hello....can I be let in again
please...................? - Sure was a fun evening first time in the louis Armstrong but enjoyed the band who ever they were,and the nibbles that were laid on for the birthday
party thanks to the birthday boy for the invite. - The photos say it all, A great time was had by all at Phil's 40th Birthday Party. Thanks Phil and by the way you're
looking great for 40!!! - Had a great time Phil! I believe you're almost smiling in one of those
pics... - birthday gift
- Thanks for coming everyone, and to Jackie, Jane and
Jeanette for doing such a good job at the Louis. I hope you all had a good time.
These pics really do emphasise why I avoid cameras so much - I really need to go on a non-alcohol diet. Sheesh! - Ah not at all Phil yer a grand cuddly fella and all the girls like a cuddly fella...
By the way Phil, can you confirm who the girl is in the top picture next to you ? Want to
get it right before we eventually archive. See the copy above.
- Aye Paul, 'tis Mandy Whall. Doesn't Nigel look sun burned, phew!
- Roger - I have been waiting for the details of your plan to promote Dover to the French. You make the following comments on the thread relating to this:
"Dover-Boulogne fares
start at £24 one-way.
Short - break day returns from £28 for a car four passengers.
With fares like these, there's never been a better time to visit Dover - it’s all there: history, pubs, shops, café’s, dining and good
quality, graded accommodation too."
If you are promoting trips to Dover shouldn't the fares be originating from Boulogne and in Euros. Secondly why quote a single fare - the customers will want to see a day return return and a
short break or overninght rate.
Take care that this leaflet is to the full benefit of Dover and not just a clever piece of PR asnd publicity for LD Lines
- A note for the archive - I'm pregnant in that there pic, not just fat!!!
- when i first saw that pic i thought there was a resemblance between ali and
phil.
put my mind at rest now. - Wow high expectancy! thanks for the info Ali, have amended the copy above. Congratulations and good luck to
you. - Yes, Ali did tell me she was pregnant and due in October as I recall, Congratulations again Ali and you look
blooming! - Same old faces !!!! would be nice to see some new ones from time to time????
- Ah
sure Jasper..we've had that comment before after The Carpathian coverage. Someone said they were the "same old faces" but they were a different set of "same old faces" than the ones above, who are of course a different set of "same
old faces". Following a Town Council event we were also accused of this "same old faces" thing, but these were yet again a different set of the "same old faces" . We do go to loads of events and photograph the "same old faces"
but they can vary to quite a degree. However it is fair to say that the "same old faces" are indeed the movers and shakers in the town and do go to all the events, the events we cover. It is only our job to cover events not re-invent
the people who go to them....so what can I say!
But seriously though we do try to have a series of varying frontpages that appeal to some of the people some of time. But you cant please all the people all the time. (JFK stole
those lines from me !) - Great stuff Ali nice to hear the good news.
Sorry about the same old face but as was said a lot of events are covered and sometimes we all just
happen to be there, especially those event's that the Mayor or Councillor's attend it shows the people of Dover some of the things we do. - This super new Incat
looks very impressive and looks great in the LD Lines colours. Cant wait to see her arriving in Dover. I imagine the tugboats will give her the full water spray welcome treatment and with a bit of luck I will get some good pictures for
Doverforum so that everyone can see its arrival. - Localview
The prices quoted are what are given by LD Lines; I understand that if you go on to their web-
site and book your tickets, you will find out exactly how much (before you pay !) - and I have been assured that the cost of tickets from Boulogne to Dover is the same as Dover to Boulogne, subject of course to there being Euros there
and Pounds here.
This is a good opportunity for cross-channel working if done carefully; I want to promote Dover Businesses, but some Dover businesses don't want to be promoted - even for the tiny sum I'm asking, the worst ones
are National Chains, everyone is different and every one asks you to talk to another person and no one wants to make a decision.
This has been a mammoth task, talking to people, creating the various sections of the leaflet, trying
to convince people (businesses) this is not a money-making exercise for me, but simply to promote Dover - the historic sites and attractions, pubs, cafes, restauarants, shops and of course the accommodation sector.
I must get it
tied up by this week-end so it can be translated into French, art-work done , proofed and then printed; the next 3 weeks will simply fly by.
I know you can't please all of the people all of the time, but I'm doing my best - the
brick dust from the proverbial brick wall, is beginning to hurt though.
Roger - It'd be nice to see the arrival pictures. I like the sea-
time images, especially as for me at the moment the nearest coast is over a hundred miles away.
On movers and shakers - there'll be some on Monday at the library at 11am, with the opening of the Walter Tull exhibition. Looking
forward to seeing you! - What a beautiful sunny photo of LD Lines' "Norman Arrow" can't wait to see it coming into Dover, how exciting! Will certainly look
forward to going to Boulogne on her. - marmalade,looking forward to seeing you on monday.regards max.
- My that looks
very impressive a good addition to Dover look foward to maybe travelling on it when it arrive's. - Let's just hope they pay their harbour dues!
- Does anybody know what they are building at the old BQ site
- i was told that it is definitely a new
morrisons. - They hold the planning permissions, Howard.
- Morrisons or
whoever, it's something happening and on a big scale.
Terry - that was my understanding paul, no-one else has applied for planning permission
rumours
will persist in the town, because gossip is a popular pastime here.
only yesterday, someone told me with certainty that a skating rink was planned for the site. - Wow! Morrisons On Ice! Now that would be something! :D
- Nice to see Dover attracting supermarkets. Low paid jobs aplenty, but still nothing to spend the wages
on, well, except for going to, yep, you guessed it, THE SUPERMARKET!!
Is this really the BEST that can be done for our town? - Due
to weather conditions in the Dover Straits this morning the Emerald Princess cruise liner couldn't make it into Dover, they tried several times but alas had to give up and head for Zeebrugge. Hope they make it in
there. - Good News from LD Lines, between Dover and Boulogne from 29th May, they have announced a special introductory offer of 2,000 tickets from £27.50
each way for a car and 4 passengers based on a 5 day return.This offer is subject to availability, must be booked by 28th May and is valid to the end of September 2009.
Now the news that most of us have been waiting for, foot
passengers fares start from £9 each way - day return £18 on selected sailings on the New fast ferry "Norman Arrow" from the 1st June. - Good News from LD Lines, between Dover and Boulogne from 29th May, they have announced a special introductory offer of 2,000 tickets from £27.50 each way for
a car and 4 passengers based on a 5 day return.This offer is subject to availability, must be booked by 28th May and is valid to the end of September 2009.
Now the news that most of us have been waiting for, foot passengers fares
start from £9 each way - day return £18 on selected sailings on the New fast ferry "Norman Arrow" from the 1st June. - I don't understand what you mean
by a dead seafront. On the contrary in the summer the seafront is a vibrant place to be. Swimmers, canoeists, children paddling and picniking on the beach. Those monstrous machines (jetskis) are nothing but a menace. Over-aged teenage
toys. Rather like boy racers speeding down the London Road they present nothing more than a noisy distraction to those who enjoy the seafront in the summer. Not only that they present a real danger to swimmers in the area especially the
cross channel squads who train there over the weekend. No I think you've got it wrong on this one. Ban the things! - I don't understand what you mean by a dead seafront. On
the contrary in the summer the seafront is a vibrant place to be. Swimmers, canoeists, children paddling and picniking on the beach. Those monstrous machines (jetskis) are nothing but a menace. Over-aged teenage toys. Rather like boy
racers speeding down the London Road they present nothing more than a noisy distraction to those who enjoy the seafront in the summer. Not only that they present a real danger to swimmers in the area especially the cross channel squads
who train there over the weekend. No I think you've got it wrong on this one. Ban the things!
- I am with Phil on this one, there is a well established community that
use the Harbour, Jet Skis have no place in it. - Well chaps fair enough, and you make some fair points there, but of course I wouldnt be recommending that the Jetskis go
scything through the swimmers on a sunday morning, but there are vast areas of time when the harbour is under used or unused. Take right now this minute, just past four pm. I live here and look out on it. Okay granted that its a murky
day...but here is the scenario. There is nothing in or on the sea. No swimmers, no sailboats, no yachts, no windsurfers...its just barren and grey. There is one man on the beach near one of the huts with two kids, and one lone figure
huddled in the kiosk cafe area....so all quite on the western front. There are many days like this even in summer....so loads of time and opportunity for expanding the facilities I would have
thought. - that customs cutter looks menising sitting of boland towers.
- there must be a way of reaching
agreement regarding the use of jet skis.
i seem to remember them being banned from parts of the lake district because of their dangerous nature.
it always seems to me that the beach and immediate sea is well used with the
swimmers, sail clubs, divers etc.
maybe an hour or two a week could be set aside for jet ski users, with clear notices of the hours displayed? - yeah ww2
mines across the harbour. - maybe that customs vessel got confused over paul's taste for "pot" noodles?
- are they smuggelled from frace or southern irelad then howard.maybe they they were looking for a stash of red or green diesel.lol
- And speaking of Pot guys see the
report above in the editorial piece on drug successes...a great bust, following others too across the country and not a noodle in sight!!
There were calls from experts on the radio, despite these successes, that some drug
distribution should be legalised as its a never ending war on drugs that cant be won.
Should some softer drugs be legalised, should they be legally distributed in order to take criminal gangs out of the
equasion?? - they want to make pot noodles leagle.
- PaulB
According to the TV last night Charlie ie cocaine
contains all sorts of unpleasant things..ie dog worming powder,rat poison etc as you said "take it at your peril"
8 year sentence seems rather light for the above offence?Unless of course it was in return for information
given.... - As a regular traveller through our port I used to get really annoyed at being constantly stopped by HMRC and/or the UK Border Agency people until I saw first hand
just what they're up against.
Just yesterday (Tues 12th) a Polish truck was stopped in Calais and 15 illegals removed. Today they had a dog handler doing the rounds of the trucks on the dockside in Calais - and the dog went
potty underneath the truck directly behind me, though I'm not sure if this was illegals or something else as I got called forward to load.
They do a damned fine job in my opinion. - The Jet Skiers are not only going to turn up on grey miserable days when the Harbour is quiet, although this morning the Rowing Club were out despite the bad weather, they will want
to be there when the sun shines and the swimmmers sailing club and rowers are out, there is no place for them at Dover. - shakespear beech is quite most
days. - Shakespeare is probably too far to the water for them, quite a slope too.
- no not really there is a way onto
the beach down by lord warden hous. - Yes I know, still a long way to haul a Jet Ski and even harder to haul it up again.
- martin,there are during the summer months a few jet skiers who use that beach,there is two sets of gates there,one set of kissing gates and one set of gates you could drive
through. - hes been gagged alright !!!
- Max if they can use Shakespeare then that is ideal, the gate that allows
vehicles to enter is supposed to be for Plot holders only but if they do not lock it behind them then they cannot complain when cars do enter. - Its good to see this response
from our Town Clerk Mike Webb.
Thanks for taking the time answering the many questions raised on the thread. - Yes indeed, well done Mike.
Good to see you at the Mayor-making last night, shame
so many Town Councillors had to go straight after.
Roger - Ah, I can confirm that Mike certainly isn't muzzled at all - at least, not
when his giving his sister his view on his sister! :-D
It was very nice to be at the Mayormaking last night, and to catch up with so many people. We've missed you all! - WELL DONE SUE!!!!! I am personally very pleased to have you for Mayor. A lovely lady, down to earth, and committed to the job.
GOOD ON YA GIRL and WELL DONE to JAN on DEPUTY
MAYOR !! - well done to sue and jan becoming mayour and deputy respectivly.dont worry about gorden he will get over it
eventuly. - What a nice picture - don't the two ladies look lovely in it.
- Thanks for all the nice
comments we will try and do our best for the town and the people which is after all the mayor and deputy's job over the comeing year. - Well done ladies but i do think
Cllr Cowan has a point, we need fresh blood in Dover and not the recycled people of yester years - Not sure that was what Gordon was saying, he wanted to be Mayor
again. - No Jasper youve got that the wrong way round. It was Councillor David Lloyd who didnt want to 'recycle' former Mayor Gordon Cowan.
As stated in editorial
above, Gordon wasnt too happy about that. Sometimes though previous experience in the job is desirable. Diane Smallwood for example has been Mayor numerous times now. She is certainly popular, knows the score, and did a great job last
year as I think everyone agrees.But yes you are right too in that fresh blood is also required, so perhaps they have it about right this year. Gordon though isnt seeing it this way at the
moment. - It seems to me that DTC consists of four parties, two opposing Labour ones, the Alliance and the Conserative. With all the squabbling it's no wonder
that I avoid politics. - HOW CHILDISH Cllr Cowan!!! You really do need to grow up. His behavious smacks of a naughty child throwing a tantrum because it cannot get what
it wants.
Perhaps it is a blessing that he didn't become Mayor with that sort of childish behaviour, and storming out with his 6 supporters is just disgusting. Is it any suprise that the Town Council has an uphill struggle bridging
the gap between them and the general public, with such stupid behaviour from a minority. I feel sorry for those Cllrs who are working hard for the town, Cllr Cowan is a liability.
You are meant to be a grown man Cllr Cowan. ACT
LIKE ONE!! Anyone would think you didn't have a role. From what I know he has a few titles,and demanding roles. Cannot for the life of me see how he would have been able to give his full commitment to the role of Mayor as well. Or is it
just a title hunting case. Well done Cllr Lloyd for standing his ground.
Now all we need is Town Council to break their usual ranks next year and elect Cllr Hannent for Mayor, who without doubt has been a patient and hard working
man worthy in my eyes of the role as mayor.
Good Luck Cllr Jones I am sure you will do a superb job, just watch out for the Cowan knives - Get facts right I certainly
did'nt storm out, I stated before the event that I would be leaving right after Mayor making, along with Councillor Royston, who also never stays after the event, but has turned up at every Mayor making event, not just the one to get
certain people elected, all 18 councillors turned up last night, since I have been on Town Council, NEVER have all councillors turned up, at the 1st Mayor making after election, 17 out of 18 councillors turned up, after that you were
lucky if you got 10, also some never turn up for special events, so for them to turn up on one night gives out the wrong signal. Sue has worked very hard, I speak as I find, but there are reasons that people are against, and perfectly
good reasons, in our eyes. And do not say its sour grapes on my behalf, I would not want that position for all the tea in China, good luck to anyone that takes it on - looking at the report gordon cowan has not been quoted as saying anything.
the remarks from maureen seem to be unsubstantiated. - well done sue &
jan, hope you and the town have a fruitfull year
with a little bit of fun!!! - Sorry Paul you got that wrong I spoke to many of the Councillors after Mayor making
including Gordon perhaps 25-30 mins after we were relased,and apart from Bobby Royston who has to get home to do his onions and Sheila I saw and spoke to all those who were meant to have walked out.
Sue is a really hard worker,and I
get on with her and I am pleased she is looking forward to her year as Mayor,but the affliation of Independants and the 4 Labour Councillors together may make it hard for the rest of the Labour Councilllors as of course most wanted
Gordon.Time will tell.
On the subject of walking out by the Labour Cllrs which did not happen,Did Diane Smallwood stay,what about Jan Tranter of course they stayed and they voted for Gordon so how can it be a mass walk
out - It would appear people attended two entirely different events....................will the real event please reveal itself?!
For the sake of clarity (mine!) is this
the Gordon Cowan who used to run the Post Office social club? It made some peoples lives (including mine and my children) a misery with the unrestricted and non-sound-proofed-despite-requests music that was broadcast all over my part of
Dover every Saturday a few years ago. And before anyone starts on at me, it is all documented and isn't just me!!!! - that is the same gordon, standing in the county council
elections. - Yes Bern that would be the same Gordon Cowan. But I dont know anything about his years in the Post Office there as its before my time in Dover. But
Gordon is our KCC Councillor and doing a good job, having taken over from our Keith 'Keef' Sansum.
Yes I suppose only Gordon himself will know for sure if he "stormed out" as one councillor put it to me. But there were a great
many people there at the event and Im at one end of the hall photographing so impossible to keep total tabs on everything..but while photographing a whole brace of different people, a whole brace, came to me telling me of his early
departure along with his SIX cohorts. Now he did stay for the voting but..after that...I did look for him. Im reporting the situation as told to me by quite a few people. Was that a wildfire rumour powering around the hall?? or was it
accurate!?
There's no doubting this however, the Labour Party are once again very split over this issue. Gordon made it clear he was not at all happy...so much so that an audible gasp was heard in the audience, a sharp intake of
breath.
As I understand it a complaint has been lodged with the Labour Party itself over the voting....so there we are. - it appears that dover has shot itself in the
foot again.
personalities seem to have taken over from policies here.
any arguments or differences should have have been kept from the public. - Howard
my remarks are not ubstantiated. All I have done is read the report above and comment on it. If Cllr Cowan behaved badly last night as was suggested in the report then I for one am glad he did not become mayor. Sounds to me like he needs
to grow up and stop being a childish fool - maureen
you have said yourself that the behaviour was "suggested" in the report.
opinion is clearly divided about his
"storming out".
- And we all know we can trust politicians to be unbiased............
- Cllr
David Lloyd stated what many Dovorians feel, the mayorality seems to have been a game of roundabouts in recent years, i.e. "I've had my turn, now it's yours again". That is what he meant by "re-cycled mayors".
Cllr Gordon
Cowan took umbridge at this and angrily described the remarks as "insulting".
Back in the days of the Charter Trustees I was always invited the record the proceedings. It might be an idea to considere that for next
year.
From a professional point of view I thought that business of continually handing the mic around was a bit amatuerish.
I won't even mention the door episode. Missing Bryan methinks. - Thank you Terry.
- Nothing wrong with re-cycled Mayors - people like Sir William Crundall, Dickeson, Adcock and wartime leader
Jimmy Cairns built the town. But now it is just a game with people with no say or influence..... - Having not attended a Mayor Making before I did not know what exactly to expect,
although I expected the proceedings to be conducted with dignity, calmly and professionally. I was therefore quite surprised to hear the (barely) concealed vitriol in some of the Councillor’s speeches with regards to the proposed
nominations and proposers. As an outsider, it was unexpected to hear this and gave the unwelcome impression of a rather nasty embittered little circus. I am now led to believe that such sentiments are not particularly unusual with
sarcasm regularly creeping in to these occasions!
Nonetheless Sue made a good very speech but it must have been disconcerting to have Diane, her predecessor, voting against her immediately before the hand-over. I cannot comment
on the ‘walking out’ as I was busy talking at the time and missed it, but it certainly seemed to cause a stir.
Still, good luck to Sue, I’m sure she’ll do a fine job. - If Gordon was annoyed, it was on behalf of Diane, Jan, and others that had been re-cycled Mayors as you call it, how insulting to hear about re-cycled Mayors when you have just completed an exhausting year of engagements, he
was only defending these re-cycled Mayors, him being one of them. As I stated previously Sue has worked very hard, I do not fault her, but she can also through her toys out of the pram, make no mistake. - Phil you hit the nail on the head petty minded people throwing there toys out of the pram.
- Thanks to
everyone for the support! Jan, Ronnie Philpott and I will be working hard for Dover this year, thats the job and I will give it my best shot. Thanks also to the other Councillors who do work very hard as well against all the odds. - PaulB - Forgive my ignorance and I know this has been brought up before on here, but what has the Mayoral vote got to do with the local Labour Party and why should a complaint be
lodged with them ?
The Labour Party is (or should be) separate to the Labour Councillors; is there an implication that the Labour Town Councillors were told who to vote for by non-elected members of the Labour Party ?
I
find this disturbing - decisions at Town (or District for that matter) should be made by the elected members, not by those of that particlar party who are not elected - surely ?
I can honestly say that the Conservative Party do
not tell me or any other Conservative Councillor how to vote - on anything.
Roger - Roger sorry you have got it wrong the Labour Group of
Town Cllrs would have met as the indies did to choose 1.who wanted to be mayor,2,who could do the job,3,then they the Cllrs would have voted.
As I understand it this was what happened and Gordon won that vote 7 to 4,the 4 instead of
going on with the Party line and all voting for the winner decided to not vote along group lines and this is how the split happened.
Roger your group does the same thing,you decide at your group meetings probably with guidence from
your leader on who fills what position.
As I have said before at DDC Paul Watkins would not offer me a position on the Cabinet because I am the wrong Party,so why then is it a surprise that Labour Cllrs will only vote for a Labour
Mayor.The Indies because they are the smaller group have not got the votes to choose the Mayor.One intresting fact is that Roger Frayne Con voted for a Labour Mayor! - I will have
to rewrite my response .Like Keith i had typed a whole response went to correct it and it flew away .I have noticed before hence sometimes spelling mistakes are left . - I can see the argument from both sides but what ever happens now, myself and sue were put there to do a job which what ever the odds we will do for the town and the people.
Yes if you wish to think of me as a recycled mayor
ok, but that does not stop me from doing my job for the good of the town or the people. - Is it true? If the Queen dies the speaker of the Cinque Ports gets a
Knighthood.
Let me remind you all that the Mayor of Dover is the Speaker this year, I wonder why Gordon wanted to be the Mayor? - Congratulations to our New Dover Mayor Sue
Jones and also our Deputy Mayor Jan Tranter, they make a formidable pair and I am sure that together they will do a splendid job for Dover. I enjoyed the proceedings, it was an interesting evening to say the least.
Very good
pictures above, they capture the spirit of the occasion. Sue and Jan look great in their ceremonial robes not forgetting Ronnie and her husband Chris who look especially
well. - Bob sorry that is wrong as well,in previous coronations the Mayors of the Cinque Ports become Barons for the Day,and they carried the canopy over
the monachs head,this tradition stopped when some of the Barons had a few too many and nearly dropped the canopy on the monachs head. - Damn - an opportunity
missed............ - I cannot see what the fuss is here. As JHG says, the Labour councillors voted 7 - 4 in their private meeting and then 7 - 4 at both the Town Council meeting
and at Mayor Making. As it is a democratic process the votes of the full council are counted and that came to 7 -11. A fair democratic decision with two Labour councillors as Mayor and Deputy so why the fuss. No other candidates were
even put forward. Well done to Sue as I know that she will do a great job and be a hard working credit to the Town and the Council. - shouldnt it be a open vote on
a cross party agenda,not just one sided afair as it is now.ie,a full council meeting to discuse the candidate for mayour with nominations from eash party [1 person from each party]. - Of course Max but the biggest group would/should always win,and normally this is decided at group meetings which both sides will have had.
- At the end of the day its all
politics - well done sue you have our vote anytime.
thank you for letting us be with you on your big night
its a shame some people feel there better than you but
we can allways hope they don,t come back, which will be a bonus for dover - About time someone spoke out about the cosy consensus, back
slapping,minor politiking that has be come endemic in this town.People are crying out for real change,not just the charade that we have been spoon fed for years. - new mayor
making scheem,i,each party select 1 person,2,put through norma proses the one with the most votes wins,3,heres the twist the person who comes last will be the mayor the following year so on and so forth.much fairer than the preasnt
methed. - John
I accept what you say as I don't know any different, but I have been told on more than one occasion that it isn't just Labour Councillors who decide who
will be nominated for Mayor (or other major decisions), but members of the local Labour party - who are not elected Councillors.
That's the big difference, non elected people (members of the Labour party) are advising/telling the
Councillors what they are going to do/say/vote and that can't be right.
Maybe they're not telling ALL the Labour Councillors what to do or say, maybe it's just the chosen few, then they pass on that message or
instruction.
I wish Sue and Jan a good year; with Sue's message of support for tourism and business, it should be good for
everyone.
Roger - Then your infomation about who choose the candidate to be Mayor elect is wrong Roger it is only Labour Town
Cllrs - I think this will be a very difficult year as Sue doesn't have the support of the Labour group who democratically put forward there nomination. So realy for the year she
will be more like an indy.
I think the 6 labour cllrs can hold there heads high even though others have put the wearing of a chain before democracy.
They have to live with that.
I have a feeling it will be truamatic
year, im already hearing many of the 6 labour cllrs are refusing to take any of the chairs this year
Think it will be an interesting year, - Franz Kafka would have
thought the Politicians in Dover heaven sent for his Muse.On second thoughts he would have laughed into his dark,dysfunctional Middle European beer. - Was it DDC that appointed
Cresting as the management company for the Bleriot celebrations? - this really is a sad situation for the town.
we have a mayor(a non political position), working
knowing that there is a good chance of the knives being in the background.
no wonder that dover always seems to take one step forward, two steps back. - The
six of the Cowan group refusing to take the chair positions? Well, what a wonderful town we live in. I had always believed the Town Council should be working together for the good of the town. How naive of me - it's just a collection of
pithy egos fighting it out in the playground.
What a pathetic situation. God help this town, there really is no hope for it. - the best thing about the whole fiasco
is that no-one will be taking the chairs this year.
our susan will be surprised that there are any left. - Badger,
I am one of the 6 Cowan councillors as
you call me, what a load fo crap, I have a mind of my own, and have my reasons for not voting for Sue, as I have said in previous postings, Sue has worked extremely hard, I will not and can't fault her on that, and good luck to her, I
would not want the job if they paid £1,000000, but there are other issues, which I will not discuss with you or anyone on here as to why she does not get my support - Why
do we have to give room to this drivel about councillors and there tantrums. Well let them get on with it, and in the mean time the rest of the people who live in Dover can be assured once again nobody on the council will be bothered for
another year about the rank state of the town. I beleive the latest council literature refers to "A world class town" well having lived here for 22 years and seen no improvement what ever.Sadly I have to ask, is there nobody in this
god awful town who has the guts to start kicking ass and demand what is ours by right, namely to be able to walk in a town that does not look as if it is still waiting for Adolf
Hitler!! - Sheila - if there are reasons why someone is unsuitable to represent our town I fail to see why you "will not discuss with you or anyone else" those reasons.
This is my town, you are our reps. Sadly D Friell is right: there is so much evidence of idiocy and petty squabbles impacting on reps abilities to actually doi what they are supposed to do that we can only draw the obvious conclusions.
- Just to go back to Keith's post for a minute...Keith its an honest and good post and tells it how people are feeling within the Labour group. However like in most
leadership elections, even in the lofty case of Obama and Clinton where it was a bloody campaign, once the vote is in and the dust has settled, shouldnt all try to work together for the greater good as is standard practice even in the
higher echelons. - I do feel for the new Mayor: she has to do her job in the teeth of all this rubbish. A good grounding for politics, though...! Good Luck to
her. - Did not I warn our town Councillors that Joe public would see any sort of poor show at Mayor making would have a bad effect on how the public view them??? Yes I did, but
it appears that a minority still did not heed the warning.
All the good that DTC has done over the last few years to bridge the gap between themselves and the average person on the street has now suffered a major set back, as we
can see from some of the postings below.
SUCH A DREADFUL SHAME!!!! - Sadly reps appear to operate in a bubble of their own making at times. It all reflects on them and their
capabilities, unfortunately. Their ability to manage PR and communicate with people is a major part of their job - it is a part they too often fail. - The political class either
with a small or big P are becoming shameful and irrelevant."How many openings or inaugarations are we going to attend this year",whilst the Town shuffles ever closer to dormitary status,find your back bones or as the qoute states
"The people of England will yet speak"forget the navel gazeing and ego stroking make REAL change,do not be compromised, innovate and inspire. - Just because I did not see Sue
suitable for Mayor, which is my perogative, does not mean that I will not work together as previously, the town comes first and foremost, D friell says she has lived in this God Awful town for 22 years, I have lived in in this lovely
old Town for 70+ years and will do anything to stop it from dying, Hitler could not destroy it, and neither will I or the Town Council. - I have no opinion about that,
but I do question your post in which you said you would not discuss "with anyone" your reasons for believing the current mayor is not suitable. If you have doubts and they are genuine you do not have the right to withold them from the
electorate. - Paulb
just on your posting, obama was democratically elected and mrs clinton lost the vote within her party, not the same as has happened on the town
council,
Knowing Sheila she will continue to work hard for the town in her own way and that is never in doubt.
Being a Dovorian for some 50 odd years I to would like to see a better Dover.
I have spoken to G Cowan
who I have to saY is very surprized at the commrentsd in one of the local papers.
He did say othrer labour cllrs left before him!!, and he did return for some 25 minutes after first leaving, so is very surprized at the local
media input.
There are lots of ways of benefiting the town but there will be some tensions because of the way this decision was arrived at.
I'm sure that even with all of this in lots of diffrent ways those serving cllrs
will do there bit for Dover.
It will be an interesting year - Was Cowan also surprised about the noise from the Post office Social Club? I doubt it, given how often he
was asked to soundproof and how many Saturday nights were ruined for a significant number of people in the vicinity. - As I have said previously the Mayor and myself will be
working hard this year for the Town and its people.
No we will not just be attending openings and inaugarations the job does involve alot more than just that, so maybe the end of our year will be the time to say whether we have done
our best or not. - this is addressed to Sheila Amos,
I do not know whether to address you as miss or Mrs,however on we go.
You have the gall to criticise me for my
comment that I have lived here for 22 years and my opinion of the town is some what below your expectations. Well let me state that as you say you have lived hear in "this lovely old town" for 70 years it is you and people of like
mind who should hang there head in shame. After 70 years one would expect in this day and age a town that had the urge to improve itself,but alas, if it is populated with people like you who seem to consider early twentieth century
standards as the norm then the rest of us can only despair and accept your dismal analogy of what constitutes a "Lovely old town "" god help us.
Instead of criticising poor misguided fools like me who after all only want to see
improvements why do you not turn your spleen in the direction of Cllr Watkins and hiscronies who year after year promise utopia. They sit in there ivory tower at Whitfield with there grandiose plans, but correct me if I am wrong
nothing ever happens. I do not know if Dover has a motto on its coat of arms if not may I suggest the following "Could" "Maybe" "In the future" "World class town" - D Friell, you can address me what ever way you like, you stated this town was below your expectations, and I said it was a lovely old Town, and have lived here for seventy years +, and that is why being an old cronie as you
call me, (you'll get to be one day), I decided to get off my arse, and get elected last time around to see if I could help make a difference, it breaks my heart year after year to see the town dying, Dover deserves better, and has been
better, and will be again, I am not living in a daydream, and promising utopia, because I could never give it, I wish I could wave a wand and bring it back to life, but you only have those things in fairy stories, it is going to take a
lot of hard work and commitment, to start and achieve whatever we can. I only hope I live long enough to see the town start to come back to life, we must all pull and work together. - Gosh, I seem to have heard that before.....and before.....and before.........and before..............."start", "work together" "hard work". Pardon my
disillusion. - Dover can only move forward when commitments follow discussions.
We all know the regeneration WILL come, but for all of it to be achieved will take a long time,
but in the meantime, there needs to be a commitment (I understand discussions have taken place many times over many months) for a Dover Business Support Body that will look after the Town and its business in a range of ways.
From
words of support (very closely followed by actions) and advice on what is going to be done on the "ground floor" to support the businesses - NOW.
The businesses are on their own, they know they are on their own, I don't think
there is another Town that has no business support body.
There's no one supporting them, advising them, helping them with business rates, bringing people to Dover, making Dover a destination for visitors/tourists, smartening up the
buildings, flowers all years round, bringing new businesses here (that's why I asked about what businesses you'd like to see here).
Whether this Business Support Body is run under the auspices of the Dover Chamber of Commerce,
matters not if the money is ring-fenced purely for this Dover Retail Business Support Body and not for other funding.
The Chamber have the business expertise, but don't have the money, the Town and District Councils have the money
(so does the Harbour Board), but not the expertise or knowledge on what the businesses need, so marry the two and let's move forward.
Roger - The problem with Mr. Watkins and his crones is that all we get are lots of words and little action. Removing them and trying to introduce more dynamic blood into the Council is surely the answer. I am convinced that all the
time we have the current Leader Dover will continue to die the death.
As for mottos D. Friell what about 'Dover, looking to the future but still living in the past. - From what I am hearing Cresting are finding it very difficult to attract companies to their corporate Bleriot Dinner. Opening it up to the public is a desperation move to increase numbers - the simple fact is they have
overpriced themselves in the current climate. - Localview thats an interesting one so thanks for that. I think many people would be cautious to be seen lording it up at such
an extravagant dinner in these difficult times. Not only are we the people suffering a deep recession and feeling economic pain, but the nation is also reeling from the gravy train factor which is decimating the political system. We the
public do not want to see our DDC representatives attending this event at taxpayers expense because as I understand it Bernard Butcher will have a table of 12/14 from his own budget..ie at yours and my expense. I stand to be corrected on
this if its not the case. - ANN
I can only agree with your comments
Could a further view be known of last years mayor selections
put forward at that
time was d smallwood because s jones diidnt liked the democratic vote she stormed out of a meeting
source g cowan and other labour councillors
WOT A DIFFRENCE A YEAR MAKES
!!!! - Keith, in this topic about the events of the Mayor Making, you say you have spoken to Gordon Cowan who has said he is very surprised at the comments in one of the local
papers.
Which paper? I ask because since the Mayor Making last Thursday, none of our three local papers have been published. Is Gordon so upset he is beginning to imagine
things? - i was trying to work that one out too.
the town council in general has hardly covered itself in glory on this one.
the only two posts on here from
independent people that were there give the impression that egos were at the fore, at the expense of the town. - Quelle
suprise............... - Dear Ann of whitfield,
I am glad to take you up on a motto for Dover.
How about "Dover no future,no present, and died in the
past" - Dear Sheilla Amos,
In responce to your reply, at no time did I refer to you as an old cronie. If you had taken the time to read what I wrote you will see
that I referred to "Cllr Watkins and his cronies" Incidentally I am also of the same age bracket as your self, give or take a couple of years either way,so please do not patronise me.
I have to admit to being rather confused with
regards to what you say.In one sentence you refer to this "lovely old town", In another sentence you express your sorrow that the town is dying, your words not mine. I have to agree with your last sentiment. My question to you is why
is it wrong for me to express an opinion which is shared with a vast majority of the towns folk who are desperate for change.You really must not take things so personally
I note you say you got off your butt and got elected to try and
do something for the town,did,nt come to much did it?? - I'll just make a couple of final comments on this thread.
Paul Watkins does not have cronies and he is and
has been the most dynamic Leader, the District Council has had for many, many years.
His ability to punch above our (Dover's) weight on matters of stratgeic and regional investment in Dover is down to him and the Chief
Executive.
It's not easy to achieve "Growth-Point" status which allows Dover access to even more funding, which is now coming on stream.
Don't underestimate his aspirations for Dover - it is far from his fault that the
regeneration hasn't yet started, that is due to land-ownership issues which are the responsibility of the Developers to resolve - and they are being chased.
I can only assume that your comments are down to lack of knowledge of
what is going on at the top - and there is an awful lot.
There may be a lack of communication; I do think that perhaps the "message" should be given out more often and the reasons for these or any delays, given out on a regular
basis.
What is the difference between spending an allowance over 12 months or 1, if it is such an important event for Dover ? The Chairman has decided that this is such an important event for Dover, so will be frugal with the
other 11 months.
There won't be an event if all you can do is grumble on and on; this is a "good-news" story for Dover and you have torn it to shreds.
Roger - I am sure there is a great deal going on "at the top". There always is. And what little I know of P Watlins has indicated that
he does have drive and ambition for Dover and his swift and honest responses have been comendable. However, we need more than hidden agendas and aspirations for Dover. We need to see some positive stuff and have evidence of movement. We
don't have that - there are some things, mainly around demolition, but it's not sufficient and not good enough. we constantly hear "in time", "it's inthe pipeline". I have been in Dover for around 12 years and it hasn't developed
much in that time - how much longer do we need? It is half a century since WWII - get a grip!
- Make everything clear and inclusive,forget the ideas of groups of elitist
locals politicians and business men pushing forward their latest "Big Idea".Have a coherent vision that carries the asperations of our whole community held with in it.Forget political jargon, be seen on the streets,not just when a
mandate is needed.Ditch terminology like at" the top "that will definately alienate people as it gives the impression of a stratified system.New thinking+innovation =new perspective.
- Very clear picture's for a moblie phone glad to see thoses guy's are around looking out for us they do a brillant job.
So quick off the mark to get such good picture's
mike. - There lies the dichotomy !.
- some interesting posts from you j, unfortunately our towns leaders are not
brilliant at communicating.
for example
most of the townspeople think that the big screen is coming out of their council tax.
another one, most people think that the council (myself included) made compulsory purchase
orders.
not so, in the case of the dtiz, it is up to the developers. - Howard,
all the great Politicos,be that regional or national practised one
mantra "engage".When this fails to happen and they retreat into political ghettos of their own makings they become an irrelevance,and we know nature abhours a vacum. - i think
that you are right there, the big problem locally is one of communication.
the much criticised paul watkins is good at clarifying things on this forum but i see little in the local press.
the town council is a law unto
itself, getting information from them is far too exhausting for the average citizen to contemplate.
of the district councillors, the only ones i can think of right now that communicate with us plebs are roger walkden, john
goodwin,
sue nicholas(in her usual insulting way) and nigel collor.
apologies to those i may have forgotten.
you raise the point of political ghettos!!
the mayor making said rather a lot about personalities taking
precedence over the good of the town.
it was generally agreed that membership of a party was the key to appointments.
- Oh dear Howard ,me insulting ?I
must remember to doff my hat when I next see you ,which I do often,see you that is. You always look as if you would not say boo to a goose let alone me . - i hope that
you are not stalking me susan.
i never see you, maybe because i expect to see nigel on your arm. - Im too firey for Nigel.That would be a sight for sore eyes
and pigs might fly .I expect you to cut my picture out see DE and place over your computer Howard . - J your use of the English Language is to be admired but to be
honest I cannot understand half of your postings ;-) - I think Sue now that you have more freedom you can take on the likes of mr Collor.
He certainly did you no justice
in the time you were in office.
and you know the history of all our hard work together and you will see in his leaflet delivered to my door he is taking credit for it all !!
without people liike you sue half of those things would
not of happened.
power to your elbow
I'm looking forward to seeing if you go back to the SUE of old I hope so . - Martin,
it could be because of my tightly
wound political angst.
- Must go to see the Walter Tull exhibition next week as couldn't make it on the day of opening, have heard such good reports from lots of
people. A big well done to all involved. - coletteb,you will enjoy it lot.
- Thanks Keith .I have
received several email calls etc wishing me well.A lot of people are not happy with politics at the moment .I shall carry on fighting .A play area springs to mind .i have found the relevant paper work . - susan
please tell us more about the play area?
us uncouth, working class ones have been pressing for one since the romans left. - Howard,
The play area is for certain councillors, not for children, town council will be playing on the roundabout, whilst the hapless leader of the DDC will be fighing
everybody to stay on the swing. - I think its time pressure was put on for a playarea in Clarendon .I was dealing with this issuie a few years ago before i lost the Community
Role .I was in Clarendon recently and i recalled looking at various options .
My first priority is to find out where the money is ? - my understanding is that the
money was available then it wasn't.
there has been offers of meetings between the bigwigs at ddc and local groups.
the end result is that there is still no play area. - Sue
Now that the wrapps are off, I was told £100,000 had been put aside from D.D.C. for the play area, (not Section 106 money)
I was to;ld this b y officers, I
suspect the council has spent this money elsewhere in the District, as they are saying now there is no dosh.
i'M sure the good folk of Priory would welcome your support on moving this issue
on. - Had meeting the other week, about play area, Nigel Collor and Roger attended and we had response from Charles Walker, this is what we had from Charles
Regrettably
there are I believe (still) three main hurdles to negotiate before the project can progress:
(i) Funding - The District Council's present Special Projects Plan agrees in principle (so subject for example to the approval of a
capital appraisal) to the expending of £100,000 upon a play area in your ward. Importantly however I must emphasise that the Plan requires the certainty of receiving Section 106 monies of £100,000 from developers to fund the expenditure
before it can be incurred. To date no such funds have been received and without wanting to appear pessimistic it must be stated that the current economic climate does little to increase the prospect of sufficient receipts in the short
term.
(ii) Site availability - Since the removal of equipment from the old site we have considered at least 4 alternative locations. For various reasons none has provided a solution. My present thinking is that we have two
possible options:
a. Revert to the original site - this would involve either terracing parts of the site (expensive) to accommodate equipment or providing equipment that utilises the natural slope. In both cases the provision of
safe access to the equipment will be necessary (and also expensive). In short there is no inexpensive way of proceeding at this site but it may be the only option available (subject to points (i) above and (b) and (iii) below).
b. Request the parties involved to review their position with regard to the Vale View Road/Poultons Centre site. You may be aware that KCC's Children, Families, Health and Education Division wrote to us in August 2008 stating that
the site was not available. At that time KCC stated that there was the possibility of disposal of the site; additionally they raised security, parking and traffic issues on behalf of the School and/or the Family Centre. We have however
recently learned that disposal of the land has not taken place. In light of this I feel we should look more closely at their fears regarding these other issues to see if they can reasonably be allayed. We have last week and this made
contact again with KCC and will seek to explore these matters further.
(iii) Planning consent - I believe this will be required irrespective of which site is finally selected.
We also asked about this piece that appeared
in the local paper a short while ago
A while age there was an article in the local paper, money had been allocated for a play area in the Priory Ward, £108,000. what has happened to this money?
Charles, Nigel and Roger agreed
the money had been spent else where, as a site had not been chosen. We disagreed with this because various sites have been suggested.
At present there are no funds, no 106 money, for a play area in the Priory Ward.
As Westmount
has been sold by the KCC for redevelopment, the developer will give some 106 money. This has now been agreed and dropped to £40,000.00.
The members of the Forum expressed there concern over such a low figure, but there is nothing we
can do it has already been agreed.
with all we have had to put up with over recent years, we are still treated like a piece of rubbish, to be cast aside, we had PACE set up, in the local community centre to help with the older
children, now it has been taken away as we have no green space for them to use to play footie within close vicinity, although over the last couple of days Vale view School are allowing use of the school and pitch so might be able to
encourage them back for an evening a week, but this still does not resolve our problem NO PLAY AREA
- You forgot to mention Sheila that the Secretary of the Priory
Forum at that meeting mentioned, said that she thought the children/youingsters just wanted somewhere to "hang-out" and no equipment was necessary.
I did at the time think this was a bit presumptuous - taking as read that the
kids all around the Priory Ward didn't now need or want a play area with equipment, especially now that the play equipment at Maxton had been taken away due to health and safety reason - again, because of the previous administrations
lack of investment in play areas.
I would have thought that somewhere, there must be a body where money for equipment for a play area can be applied
for.
Roger - I know what was said Roger, we said we know that there is not a lot of money now, but a safe area to play ball or gather is
better than nothing at all, but that really is just for the older children, we also need something for the youngsters to play on - The £100,000 should not have been spent
.The two areas I looked at were indeed the previous area and Westmount .There was some problem at that time re Vale View site but my understanding is there is a new head in place .
I repeat the money should not have been used .A
promise is a promise . - I hope you enjoy the exhibition, ColletteB :-) It's in the library, so easy to drop in for anyone, and free of charge also. I'm very happy
it's here in Dover.
I've put online on the Dover War Memorial Project website an account of the opening, with extracts from the speeches and some pictures, and the panels created by The Friends of the Dover War Memorial
Project.
Best of luck, Crabble Corn Mill, for the beer festival! - The annual town meeting take's place at Maison Dieu House the home of Dover Town
Council, on Friday 29th of May at 6oclock.
All members of the Public are most welcome to attend. - I agree with Sue wholeheartedly, empty promises, spending
£100,000 already allocated for a children's play area on something else is .......... unethical. - Sue
Although a new head in place still no joy on the Vale view site,
but we will keep fighting the corner, our kids desreve a play area, 106 money was promised from the sale of the Webbs hotel, also Weru's, and Mildmay to date none of this has come to anything - SUE/SHEILA/ROGER
How sad £100,000 was set aside (nowt to do with section 106 dosh) some one now is fibbing to say this money not there.
I hope SUE can do some chasing,
and the new head of Vale view school is open to have more community events there so might need revisiting.
ROGER correct secretay of forum had a view but you failed to add that she was talking about 1 site and many others were
also spoken about, and she has a right to an opinion, but the forum still waits for a decision from your administration as to where the play area will go as promised, so can';t realy discuss details of what can go in site if you don't
know where its going
if we wait for developers to move onto westmount i suspect it won't happen and others developers have been put off because they don't want to provide 106 dosh, so the site remains empty and priory still
doesmn';t get its play area.
SHEILA
I'm pleased you are keeping up the campaign as has been said the site at maxton has also been allowed to close as many of us had been forecasting that many play areas were to
close
In general I do feel priory has suffered a lot and become an easy target for the council and this realy is just 1 example.
I hope that the forum and priory residents get the play area promised to them and
soon
- Thanks Jan for that info re the Town Meeting of the Dover Town Council. All open to the public.Ive never been to one of those before so Im not sure if its a well
attended event or an exciting event. But it might be that bit more exciting now following the controversial and recent mayor making, as this is probably the first time they will have all got together.
Didnt Keef (Keith) mention or
was it Sheila, that 6 of the councillors were not going to fulfill certain expected roles or something similar.
But pencil next weeks meeting into your diaries and those expressing disgruntlement lately at DTC might like to pop
along and see how things are done. - Annual Town meeting agenda
1. Intro & welcome Town Mayor
2. sign minutes of Town meeting 2008
3. receive Town Mayors
report.
4. receive reports from chairs of Town Council Committeess
5. receive un-audited, draft, financial report 1st April 08 to 31st
march 09
6. receive any comments by any County or District Councillor
representing the town
7. consider any resolution of which written notice has been given
8. to put any questions by the electorate to the Town Council and to discuss any items upon which the Town council can act - Sheila
I'm afraid the present mayor doesn't have my support so won't be attending, I wish the town council well, Could you raise the Issue of the outstanding priory play
area please
thanks
keith - Hi
Yep the horses on the downs area is a great site and i love watching them whenever i go over that way which is quite regular, its
soothing, quiet, peaceful, and makes you feel good
PAUL B
On the present town council, i think the AGM is poorly attended but thats not to say the Town council didn't try.
On the chairs some of the 6 have told me
they won't be taking up chairs which they usually do, thats personal choice.
It would be interesting if they did would the rebel 5 vote against the democratic labour decision for a third time?
I will be voting to keep the 2
tories out in the KCC election, and to make sure the present cllrs hold the KCC seats
I will sat the mnext town council elections be much more choosy as to whether or not I will vote for all the labour candidates
certainly i
won't be voting for any of the rebel 5
(one is supposed to represent priory!!) I will vote for Sheila, and bobby,
Although this is something against my usual principled stand unless the situation changes with what happened
recently the rebel 5 won't get my support and on the political front I won't canvass/leaflet for them in fact i will urge people to vote for others.
- I am hoping to
get to that meeting on the 29th of May also I will be standing again on my own for the D.T.C. again it will be for Maxton E,T,C, and not for any party just as Vic Matcham. - Just looking at some of the posts below and on the other thread about Mayor making.
No wonder this town is in such a mess with all the in house fighting, it puts me right off voting for anyone.
I did read one post
where it said that all the fighting did nothing to bridge the divide between general puplic and the TC, and if this disgraceful show is anything to go by then the young lady who said it was quite right.
Keith sansum almost at one
point points the finger in the direction of the indy and tories,by saying "it never happened before they were around" some people will do anything and say anything to twist the responsibilty away from those responsible for behaving
like babies. - tom
a lot of people will echo your views.
more importantly isn't that foal stunning.
great pic claire, was the mother ok about you getting so
close?
- It started out named Dotty, but it turned out to be male, so it is now named after 13th century Mayor I believe
- Keith
Play areas do not come under Town Council, they are under Dover District - Wherever they come under, it
would be nice to see some collaborative and partnership working going on for the sake if Dover. Territorial scrapping helps no-one. - This photograph is great! It prompts me to
tell you about War Horse at the New London Theatre.
We (youngest daughter and I) read the book by Michael Murporgo and my husband quietly bought tickets for the stage play. It was the best thing I have seen for a long time, and
we are long term regulars at theatre. The puppetry for the animals was breathtaking - we soon forgot that there were people there at all under the animals, and they were very prominent - their artistry was such that they appeared to be
seamless with the horses, who were living and breathing . Although the book is aimed at younger readers it tackles enormous themes about war and death and relationships without sentiment but with heart-aching clarity. The audience was
mainly adult with some younger visitors, and we were all entirely caught up in it. I am not ashamed to say that I wept when I read the book and I wept when I saw the play. If you have the chance, I recommend you see it!
Fabulous! - Bern
It would be nice to see a partnership working group on this and other matters, such a lot could be achieved, 2 play areas have been taken away in the Priory
and Maxton area never it seems to be replaced, as they cannot find anywhere suitable, they will not put them back where they were taken from, although kids played on them for years, the equipment became unsafe and was removed, they would
not replace the equiment, as the area is not disablement friendly - I myself will be at the meeting on the 29th as chair of policy I would hope to continue in that roll
for the comeing year.
Great picture of the konik horses. - What a beautiful photo! Well Done Claire
x - A lovely photo of a lovely animal Claire. Good one.
- Thanks everyone. I did try to keep my
distance but he came right up to me, very curious and friendly. Maybe he thought I had some carrots! Couldn't miss the photo opportunity! I was a bit wary of the mother so right after taking it I left the area.
I was a bit
concerned though about the patch of skin on its rear right leg, it looked sore. You can see it a bit in the photo. - What a beautiful photo Claire.
- Tom
You will find I clearly stated it WAS NOT the problem of tory and indy joining town council, just thats when disagreements took place at mayor making.
I';m
sure many of the town cllrs from all political persuasions will carry on working for the town and also in partnership wherever possible.
Town council as Sheila says doesn't hold to much control, and the play areas are being being
held up by the District.
What i was saying sheila was at the town councils AGM i'm sure you could (if you were attending) find a way of getting the play areas on the agenda and town council support.
At the mo waiting for
the light at the end of the tunnel - good point about the mark on the foals leg.
i would imagine that the owner of the herd makes regular inspections, and will know
whether a vet is required, - Just to set your mind at rest, the horses are checked daily. The foal who I believe has now been renamed Soloman due to him being male
has been seen and treated by a vet and his wound is healing nicely. - Partnership working is more than just co-operating with buddies. It encompasses the gamut of local bodies
and organisations as well as national. - Lovely photos of Mareks leaving do. Linda what a great idea of doing a collage of forumites for him and thank you so much for including me. I was with you all in
spirit. I have never met the lovely Marek but we have exchanged e mail on many occasions and I love his great sense of humour. All the best Marek and family and keep in touch with tales of life in Jersey! - Was a good send off for Marek and family even though the weather was'ant at its best and some great picture's to show we did it in style anyway.
good luck to you all in
Jersey. - Nice to see those comments on the party pix girls...although to be honest that might be the last time to do party type picture spreads. Firstly they are too
exhausting to do and secondly they are not so appropriate anymore. They were more the thing when we ran a larger forum and were more a forum magazine than the town magazine we aim to be now. We have shifted our editorial slant in recent
times, but nevertheless was nice to send Marek and Family off with a picture spread and a party.
- but paulb
you may never get a picture of me and you
again, you should treasure it lol - That is one big boat!
I miss the sea, and seeing it every day - great pic! - It has been a while since I last looked in, but looking at these post and some of the Comments, you lot are no better than those so called MPs at Westminster with your dealings of
peoples money first you have it then you dont so much Corruption in Politics both local and National.I Wonder if there is an Honest politician any were in this country. I also wonder who really is paying for this dinner at the castle at
£250 per head is it coming out of your pockets if so you have more money than sence,no meal on earth is worth that sort of money when so many people have nothing.And if it is comeing out of the tax payers pocket then you all should be
thown in the stocks for wasteing there money. - Great shots of the party, even me own ahem! It was a pleasure organising it for Marek and his lovely family and again I
wish them all the best in Jersey.
Wow! Great photo there of LD Lines 'Norman Arrow' Elaine, fantastic that we now have the ship here in Dover. - lol!! Keef Im treasuring that picture for sure. But am not giving up pictures but wont do quite so many in spreads like that anymore...as its knackering and I think like I said its more to do with the way we were in the past.
But was glad to do it this time for MAREKS send off.
Yes Colette - great shot from Mrs M there. As Frank Carson used to say...'Its a cracker!' - Alan I suppose it is
easy to think there isnt a politician that isnt corrupt anywhere. The horrendous nature of the endless revelations from Westminster has soured the profession completely. And will have for many years to come.
However Im sure the
current furore will eventually produce some good in that the gravy strain will stop calling at that particular station. Its bread water and austerity for them in the years to come...or as close to that as we can manage. The breed is
despised right now.
But with regard to local politics...I dont think there is any corruption at local level..or am I just naive. - Really good picture of the Norman Arrow
shows it in all its splendour really look forward to a trip on it.
Well done Elaine right place at the right time with that camera of yours. - good to see that our paul
never loses his sense of humour!! - PAULB
Nice to hear you will keep that picture, and share your view on the future of the forum.
On local politicians yep some do work
hard, but sadly some don't and they are the ones that get even local politicians a bad name.
BARRYW may even share some of my thoughts,
There are diffrent types of councillors
1; THE CHAMBER COUNCILLOR(Couldn't
fink of better name)
These cllrs are the ones that scream/shout/debate in the
council chamber, some are very good at it, have to say these
days they are becoming fewer.
What was most annoying when i was doing
that public servant
role was cllrs would put there hands up to speak, then 24 cllrs
would say exactly the same thing, so we could have saved 23
people speaking!!!!
At that time I was working long shifts, and
when you have
been at work all day, they go direct to a council meeting to
hear people speak when they don't need to was frustrating
And the Chair tried hard to request cllrs not to repeat things
other cllrs had said but they still did!!!!!
2 THEN THE WARD CLLR
Some cllrs don't like public speaking(not sure why they chose
to be a cllr as its part of the role but there you go)
And you realy did
have some good community champions
Again like the Chamber cllr they were few in number, but
those that were good community cll;rs always carried the
locals with them because they would be active in there
wards
3 THEN THERE IS THE JOINT CLLRS
I was lucky enough to be able combine both the above
roles and I would say a few cllrs could do this.
Sue NICHOLAS is a good example of this on how
she spoke
up for locals, but also served in the cabinet taking on the
more strategic role.
So what im saying is, these cllrs do give up a lot of there time and realy are on paper part time, in reality
those that do a good job
it takes over your life, is very time consuming.
I applaud anyone willing to put themselves forward to make Dover and the District a better place, whilst I may not agree how they want to achieve it, at
least they have made the effort and commitment to have a go.
So whats your thoughts on your local cllrs? do they perform?
do you know who they are?
do they work hard? do you see them often, or just election time?
- Thanks for that Keith.I have never shirked at debate in the chamber and as you kindly said I worked hard in the cabinet .I spent a lot of time visiting people especially
those who were rehoused .Those who had complaints against the council .I tried to be even handed .I want go on but only yesterday sitting on the bus and heard a tale of woe .Not my ward but the person complaing lives in River .The Email
went out as soon as i arrived home .We cant always achieve and im sad that i could not continue getting some of the private homes brought up to scratch .I visited a good excample of this in Clarendon street beautiful improvements .I
think I could have achieved so much more .Dover Express makes interesting reading today .Seems some can be outspoken? - I am sorry to hear David is giving up,he and I have clashed on several occasions with him
normally winning,(he is a lot bigger than me) yet the work he has done on the Town Council is quite amazing,especially all the work in getting and fixing Maison Dieu House.
I am sure the indies will miss his leadership and
guidance.but politics can be a harsh sometimes lonely world,one false move and your history. - Well said there John and yes as Keith said below too its a difficult job ( which takes
over your life) when you put your head above the parapet. Everyone likes to throw rocks at councillors...I hurl the odd brickbat myself on occasion..but I would always feel much better having DavidH as a councillor than not...so its a
shame to see him go. - David, if you are reading this, I would like to say thank you for the good work you have done for the town, and I understand your frustration with the
stranglehold that the local Labour party have on the town council. And I hope you will consider a return to town politics when (not if) the political landscape changes in the near
future.
PG, - David
Although we are on opposite sides of the fence so to speak, I will be sorry to see you go, you have worked hard and your input very rewarding, I
hope you will re-think and stay
Sheila - Theres some real strange comments lately.
I think we should be a little clearer.
On Kent County council the
administration is run by the tories and they hold all the main chairs
same on District
And this is repeated across the country, AIa do find these anti lab our postings realy strange, more so when they come from me old
mucker paulb.
David, like some Town cllrs from both parties works hard in there own way, but i think its far better to go through life expecting nowt that way you dont get disappointed.
Had the indies put up a stronger
fight and been seen around the wards then they would have the majority, but sadly they don't.
come the next town council meeting in my ward i csan vote for up to 4 candidates, at this moment I will only be voting for 2 on the
town council !!
i'm also at this time considering only voting for 1 candidate in the district election.
So getting back to the point, its about getting the most seats, working hard to retain them, and secure more, its
frustrating but the only way to change it is to win more seats, to do that you have to convince the electorate, to date with the indies thats not happening. - Thank you for
your comments - they are all much appreciated. This headline of Pauls wasnt my idea but came from a discussion of recent events ( on which I have no comment at all ) and consideration as Keith did about my life and future
plans.
He wanted to tell but I have been doing many things for many years without being in the limelight and do want to return to being with my young family and doing an easier public role.
I emphasise that I am definitely
NOT giving up my passionate (!) support of the principal of the Alliance that Dover Town Council should be totally non political and decisions made based upon the individuals opinion expressed in open Council. I intend to back the fight
at the next election and beyond with finance and time.. I hope that as when we first came in 6 years ago we will field a full pack of candidates - last time we had 48% of the votes and we will try and get lots more. Anyone of any
persuasion that agrees to those ideas can join us and we will help them get elected as after all that is what we set out to do.
That aside I need no big announcement - I will finish the 4 years I am committed to ( as I am kind of
fussy about doing what I say ) .
Look for younger and energetic souls to follow on with politics and carry on with doing something that I have done for 20 years for fun. No chance this is a way of gaining support nor is it a
political move - its a result of deep thought and too much fellowship at mareks party when I succumbed to pauls intensive questioning.
He repeats that I have been suggested that I could have a role in Mayorality but frankly ,
whilst I have enormous respect for those that do it and the post itself, it wasnt in my life plan. I do however want to see Dover prosper and change but will help from the background. no more marching up the main street waving banners
to buy maison dieu or failing to get a proper hospital! And probably no more putting flags and flowers in castle st. Lets get some new blood in .
Its been interesting and fun but when the sense of humour starts to fail its time
to move on.
- interesting post from sheila there.
maybe she is right, at town council level, it should be about people
being passionate for dover instead of scoring points.
another point made by big dave about the mayoralty role.
it is very demanding, not the sort of job for someone with a fulltime job and/or family.
- Good posts guys and good one from Big DavidH as he is the story of the moment.
But just to go back to Keith for a minute...Im not anti labour Keef so no need to worry
too much. Its just that in my role as it were you, have to describe the situation as it emerges. it doesnt mean one's allegiances have changed. Take the case of Margaret Moran greedy pig Labour MP. Her Labour constituents are sick of
the site of her yet they are still Labour. They wanted her out and they got her out. She claimed £22,000 for her boyfriends dry rot even though he is a zillion miles away from her constituency and just as far from
Westminster.
What is wrong with these people. To become an MP is a marvellous thing and indeed I would like to do it myself. The chance to do some good for your people. But no...all lost due to being dazzled by the opportunity for
instant greed.Its not anti Labour to condemn her.
I watched a programmme on BBC1 last night where you had a whole brace of officialdom chasing ordinary people who commit benefit fraud...but it was on pin money scale in comparison
to the MP's. Yet the ordinary Joes get sent to jail, not our MP's, who have in many cases clearly been doing things that are illegal...the imblance is bizarre and wrong. If you want to be truly Labour and socialist then it has to be
the same for everybody.
Likewise I heard on the radio this morning that a woman who lied about her address to get her child into a particular school will be sent to jail for a year if found guilty.
What has gone wrong with
society?? - Paul B interesting comments .No matter what the issuies are there will always be double standards .I read the Dover Express with interest re the Deal
Town Council where councillors traded insults .In politics you always get a bit of this but for some of us its a mortal sin not becoming and one has to be punished .
You may find it useful to down load the guidance notes from
English Heritage re screens .There views are the ones I tried to put across to the planners .Im just glad I dont live in Market Square and neither do those who passed the plans . - its about getting the most seats,As Keith says but it
should be about the people of this town, not how many points thay can score against each other.This town is in decay and its only down to the people who run it for there own ends with so much infighting in TC and DC its no wonder that we
dont belive what you say any more,So at the next local Electaions are we to see the same old bunch back in again storming out of meetings because things dont go there way.When are we going to see councils Accept which ever party is in
power you all work together for the good of there town if you cant do this get out of Politics,We will be watching. - PaulB I wonder how much our MPs have claimed is that
why thay wont publish them MR Prosser has 3 homes I belive. And local councils should also publish a list of all Expences clamed by our local Councillors who work on our behalf. - Alan DDC councillors expenses were published recently .You will see how much you get as a Community Councillor some get Special responsibiltiy allowances .Then you see travel
and subsistence .
If you need a more thorough break down take mine FIA will provide that .You can see how many meeting one attends ,milage ,taxi fares etc .
I use the bus most of the time .
The meal allowance is £ 8
approx .If you leave home before 7.00am and dont return until 7.00pm that doesnt buy much .Coffee on the train very expensive .We get 2000 sheets of paper per year .I usually get mine from Tesco as my son will carry it for me .A little
heavy on the bus . - PAULB
Let me explain, and others that have not yet grasped where im coming from
1'; I have no problem people having a go at
the Government and
Labour in general, as long as its even handed.
Just for a moment lets look at the National scene I have before
today said yep, MP's have a duty not to have gone as far as
they have, and
ALL the parties(not just Labour ones!!!)
should be sorted, from those that have claimed for
mortgages they didn't have (send em to jail) and those
acting within the rules, the rules need urgent reform, they
have been, and are open to abuse.
2; I actually Share the Lib Dems leader when he says lets
deal with those in office now, not wait till the general
election, at the mo many will walk away scott free ,
unless
that is people power continues, they shouldn't be allowed
to just stand down at next election even though they thats
a good start, those that have gone before enquires and
found guilty should
not only pay our dosh back, but also
where ever poss be taken to court, just like you or I would
be.
3; On the more local scene, Dover Town council doesn't have
many powers to make changes so you
can't blame them
for very thing, but PAULB you were not strong last
year on the forum when after a town council vote voted
by indies and labour and D Smallwood was elected and
Indies got up and
made speeches that realy were not
in the best interest of the mayor making.
Im not into mayor making, but it is a ceremonial thing, and
once you have had the democratic vote by all to town
cllrs then
the actual mayor making should be just that ,not
another political arena about who should be mayor.
It happened last year by our very own chris p and other
indies, but it did not recieve the anti climate that
has
happened on this years mayor making.
So all i'm saying is. by all means bash the administrations
I do it myself, but we need to be fair to those labour cllrs
that if we talk about the actual
mayor making event the
indies party have been no better than labour.
On the question of the District council, yes they have a bigger budget and i have said before today that Dover appears to be being left behind whilst
other councils move forward, and in other posts I have identified this.
The town itself, we need to decide where it starts/finishes and how we make sure of its survival, bearing in mind the present admiinistration wants whitfield
as its main hub. and this will affect the town.
hope this is understood
keith
- Just one big bunch of squabbling idiots - change the system to
Mayoral Elections the procedure as defined by the Department of Constitutional Affairs if you cannot behave with it in adignified manner. The code of conduct is clearly defined - Local politicians,National politicians the reason Madame le Guillotine proved so successful.
- ah Keef in my defence re last years Mayor-Making I wasnt actually at the
event so would have been unable to comment on the intricate bits and bobs of proceedings.I was actually at the time on a visit to the House of Parliament at Gwyn's invitation and a very interesting experience it was too. Of course that
visit was at a time when the only difficulty parliamentarians had was the riquors of party politics. How its all changed since then. Its a great pity that politics has been mired.
Re the aforementioned Lib Dem Leader Nick Clegg.
Mr Clegg has certainly soared like a parliamentery eagle at this time, his particular star has shone brightly. He seems innovative and fresh and has come through the current crises the very best of all. He is the type of guy politics
needs..new and dynamic and a positive reformer.
But once again to return to the local situation...it is sad to see people like David Hannent leaving local politics as I feel that we will all be that bit worse off for it. It was
also a sad day Keef when you yourself jacked it in. Its no good losing good men through disillusionment. - i agree that nick clegg has looked very statesmanlike during this
fiasco.
however is just see him as cardboard cut out.
he has not got a clue about the lives of ordinary people.
he once rattled on to an interviewer about pensioners having to get by on 30 quid a week.
the
interviewer thought he must have misheard and asked mr clegg how much he thought the state pension was.
the reply came back "about 30 quid a week".
enough said, i think. - it will be a shame to see david hannet leave the hub of politics.
- paulb
All i'm saying is, everyone that posts
should look at the situation in a even handed way, there was few comments on last years mayor making yet it could have been seen as anti the mayor
At the end of the day there are good and bad in all parties it would be nice to
see the indy cllrs scrutinised in the same fashion
oh yer and the tory - Paul
I am sure I am as sick of seeing my face here as everyone else is!
Please find a more
relevant story for the front page.
My comments you will note did not refer to a specific event.
Last night the DTC had their annual meeting and not one member of the public turned up 7 or 8 councillors of course, but we
couldnt hold the official meeting - so we had an open disussion and it was totally friendly. When we have got the full committee set up for the new year then we can move ahead and surely will.
Next week tuesday 6pm sees Policy
and the next day will be finance - at those meetings we vote for the chairman and from then the business plans and committee plans can get moving again.
I will not get involved in political discussions as there is a job to be done
and whilst I am still there I will see it so.
Comments were made somewhere about belonging to a club - well DTC is a team and I am a team player so am supporting the Captain. Dover needs what we have and everyones input is
needed.
- As was said the annual meeting for DTC took place lastnight, now that is a meeting for the public to see their councillors face to face
people they put there to do a job.
Sadly no member of the public turned up when criticism is given is it not best to give it face to face and there is the perfect time and place to do so.
But there is a job to do so yes I'll stay
with it and hope that the criticism given can be constructive. - was it advertised outside, as the notice board does not have the agendas up recently?
- given my view
may attend next years depending on outcoimes of this year - Until recently I worked at a
distance and have been unable to attend even evening meetings. I have to add, though, that even if it were advertised (I didn't see it) it was advertised ineffectively. If local reps were serious about reaching out to local people
effectively the events and meetings would be advertised more effectively and run better (I still remember one I attended a couple of years ago where the reps hectored and harried the people attending because, it appeared to me, they
didn't like the feedback they were getting, which was given assertively but not discourteously. Imaginative advertising and effective reach-outs, not. - it allways been the
same here in dover paulb. - i have seen the posters for the hellfire weekend.
anyone running an event should take a look at one of them.
totally eye catching and
descriptive. - who's up for mayor 2010?
- frank lampard for
mayor. - or billy bunter lol
- I posted this a few weeks ago Paul, just a flypast....
- desprate dan,dangerous gordon,or evan elvis presly.
- someone with a touch of class, good contacts, quality
breeding, rich enough not to need a bung now and again.
step forward posh barry.
sorry victor, nothing personal. - very limited then
- Ah yes you did indeed Scotchie, thats in fact where I got the info...directly from you. But allowing for a little bit of artistic license above I condensed all the woes into one
week....so I could knock all the skittles over with one ball as it were. A googly! - Lovely photo Paul. Beautiful. But as, poignantly, the 65th anniversary of D-Day approaches,
what the hell has happened to the spirit of our beloved home town? My grandparents will be spinning in their graves. - Engage the public,give proof
that you are not all self serving hypocrites(Greek Spelling).When local voters were on strike over the out sourcing of their jobs by D.H.B.not one of the local Great and Good could be bothered to to put their head over the parapet.The
only Politician who bothered to take the Power brokers on was Gwyn Prosser.You need to have a belief and a cause, and show to Dover, you do not just pull down the blinds when your towns people need you.
- slight correction j chas elphicke was there at the dock meeting and gave his support to the jobs being kept in house.
- Jan, no one came to the meeting as most I spoke to said thay were just to feed up with MPs and Councils thay did not want to sit and hear people talking about what is and
is not going to happen in this town because nothing ever dose and thay have heard it all before, and after what I have heard to day i would not trust DDC or TC anymore.I was told that when the MOD handed the westen Hights over to DCC
thay were going to use it as a land fill, filling in all the moats but when WHPS took it on DDC started throwing Health and saftey rules at them. and so it still goes on if DDC and TC cant get what thay whant thay throw there Toys out
the pram. None of this is directed at yourself its just that you put the post up about no one at the meeting.I was born in dover and in my 63 years DDC has done a lot of damage to this town more than the germans ever did in
ww2. - Andy yes glad you like the picture..at the time we had a number of very exciting pictures sent in. Lots of readers got the chance to practice their photo skills as the
display lasted quite a while. So from all aspects it is now very disappointing that they wont be doing a full display this time around.
With regard to politicians...there are two main reasons for the huge local anger and
disillusionment. Like everywhere else in the nation, people here are sick of the gravy train revelations. Our own MP Gwyn Prosser has made into the infamous pages of the Daily Telegraph today. More on that later..the anger and fallout
from this general situation is unprecedented.
The second reason is the non appearance of any kind of progress on the oft heralded DTIZ. I was at the ASDA tented village in Pencester Garden 2/3 years ago when they put on a very
positive display of what they could do here in Dover. Their PR people, hugely skilled with shiney smiles through pearl white teeth, were very professional indeed. You knew you were dealing with the top flight. Too sad then that local
politicians cannot seem to facilitate their arrival. The world was so different then when ASDA did that promotional visit. Markets were buoyant, business was lubricated by a liquid banking system...but in the words of the man in the
street "its all gone tits up since then!"
Never has the reputation of local politicians been so low with the populace..and they are asking us to bother to vote next
week
.....why?? - Because if you don't at least vote then there is no excuse for complaining! The way to change things is to be positive about change - GET INVOLVED.
- I have been involved in politics all my life .I first stood in the local 1979 election .I came fourth out of six .I had another child in 1981,1983 husband died so I
did not stand again until 1987 and i have held the seat in River ever since .
For the first time ever Im finding it hard to support the election .What with local scene and what is going on with MP expenses It make you think
.
Still no doubt come Thursday I shall sparlkle again .
Politics can be a dirty game whether its local or at Westminster .Some of us and there are some good people in politics for the right reason will still keep going
. - I will be voting on Thursday even though like most people I will be feeling rather despondent about the current political outrageous behaviour of, lets face it,
most of our MP's but I feel I must stay involved as DavidH says and try to be positive that somehow things will change for the better.
Also just have to say that I cannot believe that DTC still can't manage to publicize
effectively their own Annual Meeting that invites their very own captive audience 'The People Of Dover' to attend. Marketing is certainly their weakest link and they should put it right for once and for all. Its a
disgrace! - Just received our DVD of 'Playground'. An excellent film by the students of Christchurch University, and Ben and Saskia and the others were
brilliant. Well done! It should make quite an impact at the Dover Film Festival, and on the festival circuit. - I'm mot surprised. What has Dover been doing for the last sixty
years. The town is depressing. What must cruise passengers think as they pass along Townwall Street ? Buckland Mill has been coming shortly since before we looked for houses 10 years ago. The Councilors voted for the dreadful big
screen TV and look at the mess and disruption it is causing at the moment (01/06) If it takes another 60 years to complete the GREAT PLAN for Dover, we"ll all be long dead anyway.
- I don't want to jump on a "let's do Dover down" bandwagon, but I drove along the seafront at the weekend for the first time in a while and it was just appalling - the
ramshackle and run down houses, boarded up fronts, partly demolished house-backs, denris and litter - if I didn't live here I would have kept driving myself until I was well away!! I loce Dover and it has so very much of value but it's
covered in a layer of grime and neglect. That is so down to the local reps, elected and otherwise. - Bern ,Im a bit confused "You drove along the sea front "etc .Which
streets are you referring to??JUst before I was replaced on the cabinet I visted some properties which had received loan/grants .There was to be a press release however Purdah is in place .WE have been able to do up many homes by using
the government grants .It has taken time .The No Use empty programme is well on its way .The Old Taxi firm off Worthington Street ,I think we now have nine properties there .THe Prince of Wales Sea Training School Centre progressing
.Slowly but surely .That was the part of my job I loved . - i am confused here bern, what seafront are you referring to?
ours is very nice and well kept, the best
bit of dover - "THe Prince of Wales Sea Training School Centre progressing .Slowly but surely "
Last I heard was that the developer has stopped all work and
at the moment there is a big hole in the roof ! - The seafront is great - I have always thought it was better than Folkestone! I was driving along I think it is
Townwall Street towards the A20, past the ghastly hotel that should have been demolished before it was built, the boarded up restaurant, the truly ugly and horrible dilapidated backs of buildings. It just looks like a ghost town in
waiting. - i quite agree with you bern about the shabby bits it looks disgusting.
- Townwall Street is an absolute
disgrace and those in charge of this great historic town should bow their heads in shame. It is nothing short of gross negligence.
Our seafront is indeed very beautifully kept but just behind this lovely setting is......... shock
horror, slum like conditions. Truly awful. - i have in the past sugested painting the exteriours of these buildings to make every thing look tidy and
welcoming,only to be told that where coming down shortly and it would cost to much to do.and that was 18 months ago. - so many excuses, so little
time.................. - Is it time for MP Mr Prosser To stand down I say yes Nothing but a Vulture over £69,000 of tax payers money and is earnings of £64,700 Per year he is a
Parasite on Dover's Back, If that had been you or I we would be in the cells untill our case came up.It shows there is one law for us and one for them. - We are all going on
about the fiddles of the MP'S, but can anyone on here honestly say hands on heart, they have never been on some kind of fiddle in their lives, I do not think everyone is as squeaky clean as they make out, life would be very dull wearing
that halo - ducking and diving is one thing sheila, but our betters keep tellingus how to behave, whilst lining their pockets.
- Yes we might all have pinched a pencil from our employer at some time but nothing on the scale we are seeing from our loftily positioned MP's. The simple truth is, and its
a truth all us angry citizens recognise, we the lowly masses would be facing criminal/legal action if we did anything approaching the same thing as the MP's. We recognise that and its making us angry.
We also generally do hold
them in high esteem, even in this non deferential age, so its a double let down to find them as they are.
Jacqui Smith came here in January. I met her briefly. She was being escorted by Gwyn Prosser our MP, and was still flying
high in heroic mode then, but very shortly afterwards the revelations began and her fall from grace was spectacular. All the more troublesome, all the more disturbing, because we held her in such high esteem. First woman Home Secretary
etc etc. But then.. Claims for a second home that....ermm wasnt, and claims for porn videos and so on, pummelled her image into the dust.
She is now quiting as Home Secretary. Quiting before being sacked. Her wings singed by the
sun hot revelations. - Labour to Conservative and then back to Labour, Ken Tranter is more like my cat, doesn't know which side of the fence it wants to plonk its backside.
Ah well, as they say, I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so
sure. - are we forgetting that ken was also an independent socialist for an hour or so?
still good to see him coming back on the forum.
always says what is on his
mind. - Well I'v had my diffrences with Ken, but also many a bacon roll, but to jump ship to no other than the tory party was bad enough, but to go that much
further and publicly condemn the labour party, the MP and labour in general has burnt his bridges with the labour party as far as im concerned.
I'M happy to share a bacon roll with Ken (maybe even have 1 each lol) but if the
labour party allow Ken back in after all his attack on them, then i would have consider my membership.
Ken thought it was good having all those headlines at the time and even jumped on the hansell's resignation speech(which
didnt impress them)
Times are interesting ahead - Return of the old guard,wow you lot have done well.I think we should rebrand Dover politics "Back to the future"
- ken's not a you lot lol hes an isolated (his choice) person
unlikely to have much affect anywhere any more - a
tad unfair keith.
i remember reading about a bloke a long time ago that died and came back 3 days later as good as new.
ken has left it a bit longer, but the principal is the same. - I think if Ken had any intentions of returning to the fold, he should have thought twice about making public statements about the labour party.
I'v had many a
battle internally with the Labour party, but as a member of that club, thats where it remained internal. - Strange isn't it at the Town Council Roger Frayne con)voted for a
Labour Mayor. and now Ken wants to come back it seems as if everyone to be part of Labour.
I think it unlikely that Ken will come back,I have nothing against him but he has upset a lot of people both Red and Blue in the
past. - Just seen Charlie E winging his way back to London on the train and he was wetting himself over Ken rejoining the Labour Party,I said with everyone else joining what
chance of Charlie changing colours. - Ken Tranter rejoin the Labour Party? He must be bloody joking!
- Am I missing something???? Where has Ken said he was thinking of re-joining labour or any other party??? From what I can see he hasn't made any contribution since coming back to the forum as
yet. - Mandie take a look at the editorial content above..its all there. How did you miss it!?
- How can somone change
their beliefs and swap parties? or is it for personal gain? - Of course as we all know politics has a history of people changing parties. Only last night on BBCTV, the Newsnight
programme if my memory serves me well, they had an extensive interview with one Shaun Woodward who is the government Minister responsible for Northern Ireland. An important position. Here was this chap singing the praises of Gordon Brown
on TV last night as a "man on top of his game", yet it seems like only a few years ago this guy was a front rank Tory. The landed gentry type. The thought of this guy joining the Labour Party was as alien a thought as finding water on
Mars. Yet here we are...now Shaun's a staunch Labourite, where once he was a staunch Tory-ite.
So anything is possible in politics. A bit of negotiating here, a bit of manouvering there and
bingo... - Just read the above Paul, missed the headline DOH lol
- Keith. if you had resigned the Labour Party 10 years
ago there would not have been a reason for me to leave. I have removed all those knives you so carefully placed in my back over the years.
The silence from me that follows this posting is due to me leaving for work in France,back in a
few days. - Ken
You made wilfd accusations with NO TRUTH in them before, and I would have loved you to have taken me to court as you made the idle threat!!
You were wide of the mark then, you are wide of the mark now, and you need to be careful when you make wild UNTRUE accusations !!!!!
You should stop listening to whoever is feeding you these lies.
i CAN see your
attack on me is desperation on your part,
I hope the Labour party see's sense
- Ken Tranter, and me again next time round it will be some good fight.
Vic
M - good to see the local labour party so united.
what with susan back biting at the tories, can we wonder why things never improve in the town? - Howard just for your information ,I have been working most of the day for the tories Its just the one or two I have a problem with .I think I still have my marbels
something I was accused of losing .I have put as much effort into this campaign as I could
Its a pity that some did not have the same loyalty .
It was very rewarding to hear all the support I received today .. - I will take Ken on in any ward at the polls, my cost,s will come out of my own pocket and not of a party. Bring it on.
VIC mATCHAM - susan
your post does not tally with your outburst from the gallery at the planning meeting, where you congratulated the labour councillors and berated the councillors
from your own party. - Howard - can I just get this straight? You are seeking consistency from a local rep?
- HOWARD
Sue is a direct kind of girl, not one to beat about the bush, I wouldn't do things the way she does at times, but she is a fighter.
Council could do with a few more like her, on both
sides.
- keith
surely people like yourself and susan should keep any in house squabble away from the public eye.
we hear so much how this or that
councillor is such a fighter or hard working.
how about us having a lazy one that actually achieves something?
- Howard
There are many achieving
cllrs, one lives very close to you in Westbury Road!!
And theres many more.
At the end of the day howard, the forum is for open debate and if people givre a viewpoint what they think may have happ;ened at a meeting and
its not correct, then why shouldn't it be corrected - Howard and any other interested parties now we are out of purdah Im more free to speak .None of you were at that meeting
and the people I was sitting with the objectors to the screen were even more incensed than I was at the comments being made ,
If you knew the whole backround you would not be so quick to judge .In the circumanstances I did
remarkably well .
I did not count to ten more like a hundred .
I think Howard you will find I have achieved a lot over the years .
Perhaps you would care to attend our village bazaar on Saturday
have a go on our
Pink Tombolla .You see im a Community Councillor thats why today most people knew me and i knew who they were
You are always on about the missing seats why not ask your councillors Maybe they can achieve .
Today was about
mutual respect and I have the greatest respect from people of all political parties .I actually get on well with the chap who stood for the Tories in Dover West
What I dont like is people who are shallow or Yes Men or Woman ..
. - which meeting are you referring to keith?
- HOWARD
Mayor
making - susan
i will pass up the pink tombola, much as you have passed up any event in my area. - paulb,thanks for your help in your judgement,when in rome and all that.
- i would suspose that barryw will be gloating over the county results latter on today,while poor
kieth and sid will be suffering barrys tourment for weeks to come. - howard,at the present moment i am unable to post on the members club i can confirm it wasnt me,talk about my
one liners at least mine had bit of taste thrown in and were rellyvant.but i will leave that to the masters of spin who post biased point scoring posters from now on.regards max. - Obviousely I'm gutted for Bill and Gordon, but my congratulations to Nigel and Roger.
I've spent the last half hour crunching numbers. I won't bore you with the details but basically if we saw the same swing in the
next general election across the whole constituency as we saw in Dover Town ward, then Charlie has a projected majority over Gwyn of 1,561 (assuming identical turnout).
Basically, it would take a 5.15% swing from Lab to Tory to
unseat Gwyn and there was an 8.4% swing in Dover Town.
If people are interested, I'll update when I know the County results for the whole constituency and not just Dover Town.
BUT! This projection takes no account of
turnout and the various party supporters' "propensity to vote". Simply put, if the turnout goes from 60% to 30% then the numbers of votes cast for the Tories will be much more than half of their previous total on 0% swing, but Labour
gets far fewer than half their previous total. Put another way, generally Tory supporters turn out come hell or high water but Labour supporters only turn out for the big ones.
When one factors in propensity to vote, Charlie and
Gwyn are neck and neck. Dover is ULTRA marginal. Every vite will count.
All the best, Matt (nowadays keeping occupied by teaching maths to secondary kids) - well kieth,wot a turn up for the books labour down to one seat at county what next.out of curiosaty hows gorden cowen today,they say things happen in 3s dont they.
- Hello Matt
Good to hear from you..wow now teaching maths! good on you.
The results for Labour right across the nation today have been abysmal. I dont think I ever remember anything like it. Would have thought Gwyn's
seat fairly safe but not now clearly. Earthshattering ructions in Westminster have changed the ballpark for the immediate future.
Nigel and Roger, after getting fairly well beaten before, have brought about one heck of a
win.
Yes please let us have any updates you want Matt. - Max/everyone
I do congratulate those winners and sat last count
lib dems got 6 sesats and lsabour just
2
Labour well and truely stuffed, This again sadly was not about how good otr bad the local csandidates were/are, but people voted against the Labour party.
As iv saifd on here before today, theres as many tories in thr
trough as they were labour, but pepople wanted to hit the labour government.
The Labour party will need to brush themselves down and rebuild there support,
I hope they will now get back in the communities and work hard in
turning around this dreadful result.
Am I pleased I got out of being a candidate when I did.
I do feel sad for Bill; and Gordon who worked there socks off only for the national scene to defeat them.
It will take a
long time, but Labour will recover, but only by getting back into the communities.
AND the Govt to be strong with clear leadership.
The future now frightens me, I just hope this is a short blip and protest
vote. - MATT
NIce to hear your getting on well,
good luck for the future - kieth,its nice to hear from
you and must congratulate you on your honasty in defeat.regards max. - Well done the conservatives!! Well done Nigel and Roger - this is indeed a great day for Dover and the
country. A great day for BarryW who kept his dignity whilst putting up with the inane comments of certain people (like "dream on Barry"!). We showed 'em - we voted for the best party and they won - now perhaps there will be some
action. BarryW you were right and you proved it - well done mate! I'm off down the pub now to celebrate - a good day all round! - It's as hard for me now, as it was for
Barryw in 1997
I do feel sorry for what happens next,
Yes i'm down as of course I wanted labour victories, and could easily go into percentages, and votes holding up etc, but at the end of the day labour was trouced and
as i say needs to re build,
I hope all the labour cllrs/supporters now gather to rebuild.
- kieth,good point but will it take another 12 years or
so. - Max
no won't take that long, if labour gets its act together and starts to show just how bad it will be to allow the conservatives into govt.
I, like many
others like me cant afford them
This was latest result as I say was not a victory for a candidate, but a real bloody nose for the Labour party.
Labour can learn from it, if they start to rebuild, its up to them
realy.
a few years in politics things change, I'm ever hopeful
over to you GB - kieth,i like your outlook but i think it will take a long while before labour to
regain its status as a leading party again.and it will be evan longer before the people trust a goverment again. - Well the people have voted! A sensational victory indeed, well
done to Nigel and Roger, now for the tough road ahead, wherever it may take us, Good Luck Guys. - IM OFF to cry in my bread and water
will have to get
used to that will be all i will be able to afford soon - i must admit i am much more interested in the results due on sunday evening.
the rest of the eu vote on that
day, all results will be fairly close in declaring.
we will then know what us europeans are thinking about with regard to the big issues facing us all. - proberly the far right like the bnp will get quite a few seats.
- Just to let you know we are off to Bedgebury today to see yes see the mighty Quo in concert the real
ones just hope it does not rain.
- Roger - I notice in a thread on LD Lines that you say they are the most pro-active of the ferry companies for donating to your
leaflet. What did the other ferry companies say then? - LocalView
SeaFrance said no and the others didn't reply - to emails or phone calls, but I will try again when
this one has been put to bed.
If we could have this leaflet in French covering the coastal area of Nord Pas de Calais, from Dunkirk to Dieppe, there would be an enormous benefit to Dover (and I'm sure, the District
too).
I'd like to have an English version printed to give out to cruise passengers and the businesses that are in it too; the hotels and guest houses could also give them out to people who will be here, if only for a day, but
where to get the funding from is the question; I've tried DDC, DTC and the Tourism body (WCCTA) and all have said no.
So much for a CAN-DO attitude eh ?
Roger - Roger to have this leaflet in French distributed over there is an ace idea with real merit so am disappointed to hear that the
councils didnt give you a brass farthing, paricularly Dover Town Council.
Today the Deputy Mayor of Dover Jan Tranter and Cllr Ronnie Philpott from of course the Town Council, are over in Calais officiating on Dover's behalf at
the Festival of Sport over there. It is a pity we couldnt have these things all co-ordinated whereby a leaflet would be launched overthere by somebody official even today. The reason I say this is that the launch would be covered by the
newspapers over there if you had our Mayor and their Mayor overthere launching it. It would be good publicity and some joined up thinking like this might produce results.
But of course all that is scuppered by the non co-operation
of the Town Council by not forking out a few bob on an idea of merit and they sitting, as I understand it, on a surplus of cash.
- Roger,
I have always supported you
and must confess that your plan has never come to my attention at DTC.
If it has been refused, then please give me details.
Next week sees the first of the proper Town Council meetings in the cycle (wednesday at 6pm )as all
Chairmen have now been appointed for the new year.
This year aside from Finance and Policy I have volunteered to be on Town and environment Committee and you will note on their minutes of last weeks meeting ( item 44b)that we
resolved to look at all published leaflets for a discussion at the next meeting! I would also point out that there are a number of leaflets about and we want to look at as many as possible to see what we can help with.
If you send
me what you have I shall see that its put up for proper consideration. I didnt know for example until my Fairtrade committee last week that a school is producing a leaflet. It was was pointed out that if we produce a leaflet to list the
fairtrade establishments and outlets we could get grants. My point is that some co-ordination is needed. Some of these could be combined and if we work together we might be able to be more effective. None of us know it all!
Finally I confirm that, reluctantly, I was voted to take over Chair of Finance Committee for this year so it means that I will be careful what I publish here as I am now part of the team again and it is proper that the corrrect
person states the official position.
Nevertheless if anyone has any issues they can send them or see me directly ( am always about in Dover) but I SHALL NOT discuss individual issues on this forum which I will continue to support.
I also will not be rising to the negative snipes that are so prevalent. We are trying to do our best but obviously some will not agree. I didn't take on this job for popularity but because I am Dovorian and believe that we can make a
difference. Things are happening and a difference IS being made. I object when I disagree and make my vote but in the Council it is but one of 18 - thats democracy - or at least it should be.
D - My posting wasn't prompted by Pauls but I will look into the facts - i havent yet had time to study the books in great detail but confim that this is the second time that
DTC has had a zero rate rise ( not as publically reported recently) and I personally wish to see that maintained next year. - Is it possible to create a web page on the
dover town website promoting the shops in the town using the information that Roger has gathered for his leaflet. This page could have a french translation version. Then you could approach the ferry companies and ask them to link their
websites to this webpage - Thank you David - I'll send you a couple of pdf's of the leaflet in English, but it hasn't been completely approved yet. The finished article
(in French) should be ready early next week and printed very soon after.
Localview - if it is made into one pdf then it could be loaded onto a web-site (DTC's ?) for people to download - one in French and one in
English.
The English version wouldn't need to have LD Lines on the back (unless they were happy to part-fund that one as well) so could have a piece about the main sponsor - maybe the Town Crest and a welcome message from the
Mayor ?
The main advantage of this leaflet is that because I have been working closely with Nick Stevens who is the PR man for LD Lines, the Port of Boulogne and Nausicaa the Seaworld site in Boulogne, the leaflet will get lots of
coverage and distribution, including on their ships (the conventional ferry and the new fast ferry); therefore Dover will get that coverage and LD Lines will get the business, so everyone concerned is a
winner.
Roger - Thank you localview and Roger.
Will pass this on for action - I will talk with Roger - just missed him today I think!
D - with regard to the KCC results i'm sure Labour in time will rebuild and become the socialist party i joined 25 years ago
but in other threads mention was
made of Bill Newman one of the best respected local politicians in Kent by all parties.
everyone warms to him.
When I phoned him after the result he was fuming, not because he had lost his seat, because hes a good loser, but
because of the conservative smear leaflet.
he told me how he had to leave the polling stn when collor after he had a go at collor, because bill being the gentleman he is didnt want to completely lose his cool with Collor.
Bill
for the first time in all the time iv known him refused to shake collors hand, not because of being beaten, but he was incensed by the leaflet.
I think the conservatives made a big mistake there, and it had little effect anyway,
but it realy was gutter politics
But I'v now seen how despersate and low the conservatives locally will stoop.
You have collor lost a friend in Bill Newman, and any other conservatives that don't distant themselves from
the leaflet.
As I say I'v never seen Bill so angry. - kieth,as i didnt see the leaflet im blind to what you are talking about.can you either post some of it if possable
or show me a hard copy of the leaflet.i have known bill newman for 40 plus years and never known him to lose his cool. - If I ca get hold of 1 will do
I tore mine up
disgusted!!
So don't want this sound like sour grapes cos at end of day the national scene has told people to vote against labour and i understand that.
But Bill won't forgive he's realy hurt by the leaflet
- It might be possible to upload it on to this site Keith so we can all see. There wouldn't be any legal problems as it was distributed to the public initially. The decision
would lie with the owners of this website. - thanks anyway i will keep an eye out for you kieth but will allso keep an eye on here
to. - I dont know what the leaflet said either as it wasnt delivered in this division .I did hear about it but did not pay much attention .I would never allow a leaflet to go
out in my name if it was in poor taste .I have already said on another thread Bill is a gentleman and he has always been very kind to me .More than I can say of some 0f my collegues ,
I dont play those kind of games .. - Please Paul can we change the front page would be nice to see a picture of lovely Bill or indeed my friend Roger
- Isn't this just like Keith Sansum. He makes no secret of the fact that he doesn't like Nigel Collor and now because his precious labour party has lost all its seats he decides to launch a
smear campaign against the conservatives and Nigel! I know Bill Newman and he is a gent, a really nice bloke but I think this latest attack by Sansum is just trying to discredit the conservative party by making up stories. And he talks
about smear campaigns!! At least we know that Nigel Collor will still be the hardworker he's always been for Dover and will be far too busy to be worried by these sour grapes. - Mr Happy
Theres no sour grapes as i-v said in previous postings, the public voted against the labour party and they will have to re build
True im no fan of mr Collor, but thats life.
Im just saying
it as it is. Sue knows where im coming from.
Democracy decided thursday made a decision and thats fine, I have no sour grapes, just pointing out that it was a diusappointment on that leaflet and bill wasnt (isnt)
happy
As for the future lets see.
- The piece Bill Newman got upset about was on the back of the Conservative leaflet, entitled "What the papers
say".
It had headlines from the recent National Press about the Government and from Local Press, from a while ago, about Gordon Cowan.
There was nothing in it about Bill at all.
Roger - Sue will be changing the frontpage either later today or early tomorrow morning. I'm not able to put up a picture of Bill Newman
because I have never met the chap so as a consequence have no picture. I think I do have one of Roger Frayne somewhere but its a group shot as I remember so wouldnt be appropriate. Im between computers now too...the pictures are on one,
the old one, and Im typing this on the new one...so chaos reigns. but am bringing them over piece by piece and have some here now too.
I heard about the aforementioned leaflet earlier in the week before the results were out but
havent seen it. - Bill believes in fair play, and that leaflet tried to discredit one candidate in the KCC elections(which failed) also it was on articles that had as the
conservatives know no truth in them.
But I suppose thats what we have to expect of the local conservatives, as I say I won't ever be standing as a candidate agsain so it effects me less, just saying one of our most respected
local politicians was realy upset about the content, and he rarely gets upset.
Better to know than not to know
For me, life goes on
At least Bill and his lovely wife Jean we can now get out for thsat meal we were
trying to arrange (and it will be in Dover)
- on the basis of the posts below i think i do remember somthing about gorden cowen on a leaflet that came thrugh my lrtter
box.allso cant remember nothing about bill newman. - Max as Im understanding it I think its the stuff printed about Gordon Cowan on the back of this now notorious leaflet that
has upset Bill Newman..thats how Im understanding it anyway. Gordon Cowan and Bill Newman were of course Labour running mates.
If anyone has the leaflet and can take a photograph of the relative section please do so and send it
over to...
dover7@msn.com - I now see the picture re the leaflet and I can understand Bill being the gentleman he is would not like to have seen his running mate besmirched .I
do recall those stories in the press at the time but to use them in a leaflet was well below the belt
I could have said more but as we were in Purdah the true story of events has not unfolded .There were those who plotted to get
me of the cabinet however I still have my marbels .
The words I uttered were hardly audible and what that leaflet said warranted the same treatment .
Bill ,Keith and I served on the same committee and Bill always gave me
a lift home ;more than can be said for another councillor when it was left for an officer to bring me home ..
Bill joined the council with me on the Parish Council and the district in 1987..Different politics but friends
.
Those who campaigned against me will never regain my respect . - I am great friends with Bill and have not studied the offending document, however there is a degree
of holier than thou here.
I have a collection of terrible statements and disgusting tactics - some quite recent - from other parties.
Regrettably, that is where we are and one reason why I am moving on when I complete my
term. It can't come soon enough for me.
All details I keep on file.so when I finish my book will be a best seller...... - Thats what I like to see DavidH, already
thinking ahead to your next successful project when you do move on, put me down for one of those best-sellers and I want it autographed!
Also that was a nice piece of networking there with PaulB, RogerW, DavidH and Localview re
the LD Lines leaflet, I sincerely hope that DTC do help with this one. - I am more proud than ever of my Uncle Nigel. Well done to both him and Roger! He
was so happy (and emotional!) Friday and he deserves it. He is a good man, a great councillor and the best Uncle to me and my Children. Good on you Nigel you worked hard for many years to achieve this :) - paulb kieth etc,i personly can see this leaflet being debated to death.as i see it the pulishers and the agent could and i repeat could be draged through the courts for slander
as a first instance,with an allternative of the agent/publisher/conserveative party actully apollogising publicly press etc and then making a donation to bill and gordens faverite
charties. - I have just returned from a visit to Crabble Corn Mill .If you havent been already get along there and see what good work is carried out by these Pay back Community
Service people .
There is so much work that these people are willing to do for the community .
Well done Harry ,Ant and team ..I wish I had been able to spemd longer but I was involved yesterday with a village
bazaar .Elec tions on Thursday . - Just to lighten the mood - i have had an unfortunate family call that because of a bereavement and other issues, a holiday in Sharm El
Sheikh - fully inclusive from 22 june for two people is not able to be taken up by a family member.
If there is anyone out there that can get away for two weeks - wish I could! - a fantastic deal is available.
D - First of all may I congratulate Nigel and Roger on the election win,but when I saw the leaflet that the Tories sent out I was also disgusted.Personal attacks using
the gutter press is not on,the allergations made were investigated by the Police and nothing was found,I note the leaflet didn't print the Dover Express saying it was unfounded.
When I got involved in Politics my old mate Jim Hood
gave me some wise words,attack someones policies but never attack them on personal issues.We could all do that,but don't. - May I say that the post from Lisa was a delight. How
lovely to hear such things.
I'm sorry about the family bereavement, David.
- Thanks for the holiday info David; we can't take it up, but it
seemed a little odd to say you were lightening the mood, then tell us about a bereavement.
Very sorry to hear about your relation's passing.
John, I agree with your comment about attack the policy, not the person, but
as regards Max and his suggested libel; despite it being arguably poor taste, it was reproducing what had been in the local papers at the time.
There have been many Labour leaflets in recent years that have been full of blatant
lies and nothing has been done about them, so although I disagree with the use of personal attacks, it isn't libellous.
Sue, I went to the Mill yesterday morning to see all about the work the Pay-Back team do and it really is
amazing, a real eye-opener.
We should make much more use of them here in Dover.
Hi Lisa - yes it was a good win.
Roger
- does anyone know the author if this sad document?
i am sorry to hear of any personal attacks(especially unjust ones)
made by political parties. - Lets be clear Roger theres a big diffrence between attacking a party and attacking an individual.
This will sadly sour relationships, SAD but it looks like thats where the tory party has decided it wants to be, very
sad.
Yes SUE Bill is the gentleman and will remain so, I realise your party has plotted against you and thats sad.
As you say we both go back many years and have served on many committee's together, and often were of
one voice.
On election day R Frayne was tellling me how out of the cold he was feeling, not being told anything by his conservative cabinet friends, that was always the danger of the cabinet system.
Councils run by 8 or 9
people.
I think REAL decisions should be made by all 45 cllrs, not just a few.
Cabinet system needs to go (and before roger tells me its labours fault, if he and the tories believe in democracy as they say they do they
would be campaigning to tell govt to get rid of the cabinet system)
SUE
Theres plenty to keep you busy, keep a close eye on our play area would like to be kept up to date
HOWARD
Author of document was local
conservatives which collor is chair of and it has D Camerons name authorising it !!!! - Hi as well to you Roger :)
Long time no see and I hope you and family are all
well.
Take care xx - the tatics enployed over the last few weeks reminded of the time when maggie was running for goverment 20 years or ago.i thought that it might
have been cleand up by know.i would like to hear barryws point of view on this as he has been very quite since friday. - You know what? Keith and Max - you should be a double act - Andy Pandy and Looby Loo! For gawds sake get a life and
stop going on and on about nothing. You lost the election, we won - get over it. If Gordon wants to make something out of his name being mentioned let him do it - keep yer noses out! Gordon's a nice bloke as it happens and he don't
need you two clowns looking after him. You must have summat better to do surely??? - hark at mr grumpy,you are just as bad as barry.or should i call you mr gloat
instead. - As a new boy (70) on the block, my NHS digitally enhanced hearing aids have been hearing the sound of trumpets all weekend. Now I realise that its been Councillor
Nicholas. What a pity about no word of apology for the tenants that she has been treating like mushrooms for so long. (I am one).
On 17th May at 0913, she posted 'I like it Keith I was at Age Concern on Friday. Im still on the
committee in my own right'.
I too am on that committee and would quote from the minutes of the meeting of Age Concern Dover Town and Rural Management Trustees meeting held on Thursday 25th October 2007 at 4.15. quote...KL stated
is is a mistake to have a Councillor as chairman. SN replied that she attends the meetings as herself and not as a DDC councillor. .unquote.
How can a councillor NOT be a councillor? There is obviously great conflict of
interest, particularly now when we await news of the new hospital and its location outside our front door. I am angered that, as chairman she can go to wonderful organisations who fund raise, particularly necessary in these times, with
a false persona.
In a posting on 4th August 2007 at 9.27 SN wrote quote Quite right Keef. I will write about the Well Resource Centre later in the meantime the Manager and Deputy Manager of Age Concern are paid not volunteers.
Paid employees are expected to do a good job, the same as im expected to be a good councillor because I get paid an allowance. unquote.
The Age Concern Chief Officer has just celebrated 20 years of wonderful service to this
community and many of the staff and volunteers also have several years of good service. SN has just been sacked from the cabinet. Enough said. The Dover Compact says that quote respect, openness and trust are essential components of
partnership working.unquote. When o' when. Please go now SN. - I have been away for much of the weekend and have not been
following this page.
I see that 'the' leaflet is being discussed and it clearly hurt Labour as it was no doubt designed to do and therefore was very effective. It is no good Labour supporters getting all holier than though and
bleating.
We have seen some terrible highly personalised Labour attack leaflets and frankly, you get what you sow.
All that Labour supporters are complaining of is the public being reminded, by reproduced newpaper
headlines, what a controvercial figure one of the Labour candidates was. That is not like producing rubbishing editorial the way some Labour attack leaflets have. - I have read the posting from Mr Langsford and it is being dealt with .I can live with most comments but this is rather an obscure posting and will be dealt with .
Barry we
really cant have tit for tat can we .Surely we are above this kind of school ground politics .Im not in to these kind of games . - Sue, just pointing out that Labour
have no room to winge. I am not keen on negative campaigning but it does have a place and this leaflet was only reproducing local paper headlines. - Welcome Keith (Langsford) but why start off so negative ?
Sue has been one of the hardest working Councillors and Cabinet members on DDC; the fact that her Cabinet post was given to someone else bore no relation to her
hard work and bringing up the housing standard from the very poor state it was in, as reported by the Audit Commission in 2003, to the good standard it is now.
We all know we can't please all of the people all of the time, but
Sue certainly tried. - But he does have the right to raise questions and expect answers especially from elected members or any local reps come to that. It it not
really enough to dismiss a citizens query as "obscure" and sweep it to that pace where council matters are "dealt with".....is it? We know Sue works hard, but that doesn't absolve her from responding to queries and doesn't provide
a suit of armour against critisism. - Thanks Roger .Sasdly Im not in a position to talk about the positive things i have done as someone will object to that .What I can say now
purdah is over see the other forum .I tried very hard to resolve the problem re a certain kitchen .I have visted those who have been rehoused and that was only the Landlord side of my work .
In the Private Sector i have visited many
buildings in disrepair and seen the improvements to many .On my Community side I still work with Dover Musuem and I have met countless children on their themed days .
Mr Langsford will be dealt with .Im off to Age Concern now
.
My pink tombolla Howard raised £ 52 A very hetic week - Howard - vile leader of the real nasty party that infects British politics.
One good thing
comes from this. His extremism can, will and must be exposed to debate and examiniation freely on the air waves. The pc attempts to shut him off from publicity and to avoid letting him promote his beliefs has played into his
hands.
Now we can use freedom of speach, modern communication methods and debate to expose his policies and destroy his party. I look forward to seeing him on Question Time and Any Questions.
I do get fed up with him being
described as right wing though. His support for big government, high taxes and nationalisation rules him out as right wing. A more appropriate description of the BNP is ultra-nationalist rather than right wing. - Now there's a thought howard!
I have said a lot of hard things about Brown and deluded as he is, I do believe he has the right motives
underpinning his wrongheaded policies, lies and extreme, almost blind, stubbornness.
Vile, no not that, leave that description for Griffin and the BNP. - Who does Sue think she is ......... Quote "Mr Langsford will be dealt with" he is not a child to be told off he is an adult seeking reasonable answers to questions.
Why not
answer him Sue for us all to see ............ dont hide behind all the pomp ?????? - someone is impersonating me again.
leave it to you paul.
the last two posts
under my name. - Okay Howard..apologies... have deleted the relevant posts. If someone wants to make a comment its always welcome but please do it legitimately.
- How ironic that the elitist attiude of the Politicos,both regional and national,have allowed extremist parties to move in from the wings of the Political pantomime and to
take up a very disturbing centre stage. - I was in Normandy over the weekend for the 65th Anv of the D-Day Landings my group of 4 were standing in front of Bayeux Cathedral were a
service of Remembrance was to take place,When Mr Brown along with the French President came and walked around the small square he thanked us for comeing all this way and hoped we would have a good weekend it was so nice of him to take
time out to talk to Locals and visitors just as he was about to leave because Prince Charles had just arrived a french lady from her up stairs window in very good english shouted,Mr Brown Dont Let The B******* Get You Down the whole
place errupted with Laughter and Applause. So i surpose it dose not matter how bad things get there is allways some one who will come to your Aid - Nigel Collor, Well done
Sir it has been a long time comeing take no notice of all the sour grapes from the outher side if thay didnt throw there toys out of the pram when things dont go there way people would have more Respect for them. Well Done again your a
Gent. - great pic of the screen being lifted in, one of the contractors staff told me that they would be using the same crane to lift our susan to the top for the opening
ceremony. - One of the most depressing photographs I have seen in a long, long time.
- well at least it
drew a small crowd didnt it,beats looking at dirty empty shops dosent it. - Al fresco feel? Crowds? The screen up in Manchester shows mostly weather and teletext-style news
headlines, with the occasional screening of opera. Luckily the area in front of the screen has lots of concrete seating in place for people to sit, not sure what people are going to do in Dover if they want to watch for any length of
time. Crowds will turn out for football tournaments every couple of years, but a boost for regeneration? Don't make me laugh. Unless of course the pissheads in Pencester fancy a bit of La Traviata. - might just give them a hint to pee of some where else.
- MR HAPPY
Thank you for admitting you are part of the conservative
party(we won) at least I put my name on postings and don' hide who i am.
Again let me make it clear;
YEP as i'v already said Labour were thrashed at KCC and euro elections, and also as iv said they have a lot
of re building to do.
There are NO SOUR GRAPES on my part, just mentioning the tory leaflet was in very poor taste, as the tories well know had no substance, but worse, it goes against wot mr D.C. said he believed in.
DC when
he became leader said he would not entertsain such leaflets, and wanted to clean up politics, yet his name was plastered across the top.
Also clearly no tory has come on to say they disassociate themselves from the leaflet so i
can only assume like Barryw says they support smear campaigns.
Yes, mr happy Gordon is a lovely chap, and he was realy unhappy at the unstansiated leaflet, and asked me to put on much stronger words, but i refrained because I just
wanted to mention bill newman and gordon who both were upset.
So i do suppose this is, as i say the new face of the local tory party and thats fine if its the new way forward for the conservatives, I suspected Cameron didn';t
mean his words of these new clean politics when he said it.
Wonder what else hes fibbed about!!!!
SUE
We have said before we worked well together cross party, and often agreed, Noting keith L. comments, I recall spending
years with this gentleman as have many politicians, I got people to meet him and often thought I had resolved issues for him, only to keep going back to what we had sorted a year before!
Not many people would have met the high
ranking officers/cllrs to his house which i arranged for him, including the ombusman!!!!!
Im not sure where the conflict comes from sitting on Age concern
Getting back to the elections (Euro)
One of the saddest parts
of the count was seeing the right wing BNP getting 2 MEP'S elected, that is frightening.
- Mr Sansum,
Firstly my name is Mr Happy, I am not hiding behind
anything. Secondly I have made no secret of the fact that I am a conservative, you really must read peoples letters properly. Thirdly, you made your point about the leaflet, you have been told that a. the information was taken from a
local paper and b. your labour party have in the past done the exact same thing so you have no room to criticise. You can go on all you like about our leaders but if the truth be known your lot are no better. All political parties say
what we all want to hear but let's just wait and see now. Brown is on the way out, anyone can see that. When we win the general election you will see the difference. And don't go on yet again about Maggie and you nearly losing your
house - please!! You can't live in the past,look forward not back. Let us all think positive now and look forward to a better Dover and a more upbeat mood. We have the TV now, hope it heralds the beginning of a much improved town. With
Nigel at the helm we can't go wrong now. Chill out, get a life and stop going on about what is now history.
George W Happy - mr happy, my dear old thing, you have
confirmed that both of our major parties are not worthy of our vote, at present. - Mr happy
Yes leaflet was taken from a local rag (that makes them not guilty?)
labour doesnt go for personal attacks like that one.
Like SUE I have No confidence in Mr Collor, but as Iv saID many times the public have had there protest vote, and will return.
Brown will be there for long time to
come
must take a look into benefits of moving abroad just in case tories,,,,,,, no cant even bear to think about it !!!!
- i seem to remember our paul asking
for a copy of this "iniquitous" leaflet.
we can only make a judgement when this is forthcoming. - Keith - you said "labour doesnt go for personal attacks
like that one."
Perhaps we should call you Pinnochio - your nose must be growing after that one.
Please stop treating people as fools.
- barry
if you have a copy of this tract, would you be so kind as to let us know what is in it?
- It's
great to see something physical as far as the 'big screen' is concerned, let us hope that when it is up and running that it will attract crowds around the same size as Boulogne. - Howard - I dont have a copy of the Conservative one, I delivered all those I had. Like I say the back was just a series of newspaper headlines, no attack script or comment, just newspaper clippings.
I am digging around
for the Labour one that Keith seems to think doesnt exist. I may have it buried in my records here. If I can find it I will send it to PaulB. - thanks for that posh.
we desperately need some positive thinking here.
i realise that it is difficult for you to give an opinion, with your social position.
- I've been rethinking my earlier posting regarding this photograph of the installation of the town television. I've changed my mind. It's the most depressing picture of
the year.
What the hell were they thinking when they voted for this thing? Lunacy, utter lunacy! So this is going to attract visitors to the town? Oh the humanity. This is someones sick joke right? It's too late now but by God! If
it were an art installation by Tracy Emin I would consider it an interesting piece challenging our perceptions of mass media and how it inflicts, changes, personifies, dignifies, subcutanties (I just made that word up and it's great),
transmogrifies, descecrates Britain today but No it's just a flippin giant telly.
Forgive Me Oh Lord for I have sinned. The last time I went to confession was thirty years ago. I shall accept my penance. I shall look at the giant
electric box for evermore until I die or at least till the money runs out to pay for the upkeep or until its carbon footprint is deemed so high that it will be turned off in order to save the
planet. - Calm down, dear. It's only a big telly. I think its going to look great. Something sleek and modern to distract attention from the ghastly NatWest facade and others.
Rolling BBC news will be super, and hopefully local input giving information and directions to our attractions, such as they are. As has been said, the poor old no-mates at the Town Council could put a newsflash on next year pleading
for two Dovorians, just two pretty please, to come and attend their meeting. Pity about the Olympics but its a cross we shall have to bear, maybe there will be footie for the masses. Its a blank canvas with endless possibilities, enjoy.
- I don't have any firm views on the big screen, I think its a suck it and see.
We do need something to help revitalise that area and maybe the screen will help?
- all we need know is someone to fill all the empty shops in the area to make it viable.
- Nope
We need a
FORWARD LOOKING CAN DO
planning dept
that would be a start. - Have just spent ages catching up on all the posting made in my absence and 2 caught my attention.
Keith's continued abbhorence at my wanting to rejoin the Labour Party(some might say that is like buying a ticket for the Titanic after it has hit the iceberg) and Vics posting.
In answer to Keith, why didn't you show your disgust
when you were sitting in my car and I told you my intentions? After all I trusted you enough to let you sit behind me.
To Vic, this alleged competition between us only exists in your own mind and baffles me. I seem to remember it was
me you called when you were about to be arrested at Bushy Ruff and it was you I relied on to ensure we brought the archery championship to Dover. - Paul
The TV itself is
harmless until it is switched on. What is shown on it is the important thing. If you want to see pieces of art by Tracy Emin , and why not, then put your preference’s to the right
people.
- As was stated previously... the Conservative leaflet now reproduced above, was considered 'dirty tactics', and the reason the highly regarded and
long serving member of the community Bill Newman, refused to shake hands with victor Nigel Collor, Conservative. Nigel and Roger Frayne won the 'seat' from the two Labour candidates Gordon Cowan and Bill
Newman. - PaulB. As mentioned earlier, I have found the Labour leaflet.
All this moaning about the Conservative leaflet is just so weak! People living in
glass houses should not throw stones. I have found the dirt letter Gwyn sent out earlier this year attacking Charlie on his fight for us all the get a proper hospital rather than Labour's little polyclinic. Labour complain about the
Conservatives using press cuttings - but this letter is a truly dirty, personal, unwarranted and deeply unpleasant attack on Charlie. It was intended to go "underground" to Labour supporters and not be seen by anyone else. Yet despite
this attempt to be so underhand, it still came to light. More recently, we saw Gwyn go about threatening libel action against Charlie for his principled stand that all MP's should publish their expenses, accusing him of evil smears and
so on - before getting outed by the Telegraph the very next week.
I understand that it is because Labour went down this personal attack route on Charlie that the Conservatives took the gloves off - but even then only to the
extent of using some press cuttings, not the kind of dirty, outright "ad hominem" viciousness of the sort we have seen from the Labour Party. If there are former Labour County Councillors out there hurting, they should look to the
wind sown by their own lord and master, before cursing the whirlwind they have reaped in response from the Conservatives.
Beyond this, I would say to the Labour Party . . . there was a vote, the people decided. In the defeats we
have tasted in all too recent history, we have swallowed the bitter pill with good grace. Don't be bad losers and don't dish it if you can't take it.
I will email you the Prosser leaflet PaulB.
- paulb,any chance of putting pictures of the offending object on york street roundabout,yes its causeing caous around the
town. - Oh no not more feeble tit for tat politics its like a bunch of bloody kids. For gods\sake get a life no wonder people don,t bother to vote.
Libel actions, slander
do what us ordinary people would do if we were lied about punch him on the nose. - Reference Gary C's posting but not wishing to deviate from the thread, I have this weekend
delivered furniture to Tracey Emin's house in France and actually made her bed for her and then took tea with her friend Jerry Hall.
Anyone know how to get photos off a phone?
- KEN;
Firstly in the times of giving me a lift which you kindly did thats fine and appreciated, and the days of the bacon roll.
I look upon them as non political gatherings, where we chat, get on well, and don't
realy havre that many problems.
On the political front; IU'm afraid you burnt your btridges before leaving the party, and I realy can't see a way back.
You have to think of these things before making such statements when
you left, if you ever considered you wanted to return to the fold, you should have thought more about what you were going to say.
Whren outside of the political arena your an ok type of guy, but we never get round to chatting
to all these wild allegations you made a year ago, nor do i realy want to, as the bacon roll days are far better
Of course I'm just a pleb in the labour party now(probably always was) so it won';t be my decision
anyway - BARRYW
You know barryw the old labour leaflet
(if ever produced) was about policy and whether or not tories supported a hospital, as there has been
differing views coming out from tories.
The tory leaflet was a smear on 1 candidate in a deliberate attempt to give the impression that person was guilty, when the local tories knew he wasnt found guilty of ANY charges
BUT WHY
LET THE TRUTH GET IN THE WAY ????
So its not about the election result, I realise in the short term Labour has been given a bloody nose,
But this leaflet shows the level the tories have gone gutter politics as bill says.
We
know what to expect now, (sadly)
- This is classic gutter politics at its worst (Tory leaflet) which really gets my goat. Why can't these fliers promote their
particular party's offerings rather than slag off the opposition? Is it any wonder there is such apathy amongst the public when the various party's display such childish attitudes?
If you want my vote then I need to know what
I'm voting FOR, not what I'm supposed to be voting AGAINST as that, in my view, is somewhat dubious history.
Come on guys, let's get some positive literature out there next time and not languish in the gutter
please. - Dont get me wrong, I too prefer to have proper policy discussion and I know Charlie would, but negative campaigning does take place, sadly.
All I am saying here is that the self-rightous cant from supporters of the Party that produced McBride and his ilk, plus that Labour leaflet to which I have referred, a copy of which I have sent to PaulB, is simply intolerable
hypocracy. How anyone can claim Labour doesn't do personal attacks with a straight face is what I cant understand. At least the leaflet reproduced above was merely reproducing newpaper headlines without comment and was not a direct
personal written attack.
No Keith - the objective was to underline the need for change and emphasise what is wrong with politics currently and not to suggest guilt. The person concerned is a controversial figure is what you can
deduce from that. Nothing no-one has not read before, all publically available. - Barryw
You know that not to be the case, it was a total
SMEAR on 1 person trying give the WRONG impression of someone being guilty when you knew well there was no substance in the leaflet.
It was gutter politics at its worse, im interestied to see other leaflets.
Concerned
voter
I'm with you on your posting,
whether its tory labour lib dem or whoever
it should never get intio personal attacks, more so when theres no truth in them,
I hope its the last time we see such gutter
stuff
- I don't know anything about how Gordon Cowan managed the PO social club, but I do know he caused misery for a significant number of people by refusing to
soundproof the damned thing. Every Saturday night for years our family was kept awake by the noise. We couldn't sit in our gardens after early evening because the noise was too much. All during the Summers we had to keep our windows
closed and swelter and even that didn't keep out all the noise late into the might. Even after the noise pollution people came out to us and a few others in the area and measured and heard the noise and asked the social club to
soundproof they refused. - A sobering thought
Can you imagine a company that has a little more than 600 employees but has the following statistics? •
29 have
been accused of spouse abuse •
7 have been arrested for fraud •
19 have been accused of writing bad cheques •
117 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses •
3 have done time for assault •
71 cannot
get a credit card due to bad credit •
14 have been arrested on drug-related charges •
8 have been arrested for shoplifting •
21 are currently defendants in lawsuits •
84 have been arrested for drink driving in the last
year •
Almost all have been claiming salaries & expenses disproportionate to the impact they have upon the running of the business.
Which organization is this?
The 635 members of the United Kingdom House of Commons; the
same group that cranks out hundreds of new laws, some of which impact on our profession, each year the aim of which is to make the UK a better place in which to live.
Surprised? One should be for less than 8% of them have ever
held a job outside the academic/public/TU domains and, therefore, have little grasp of
the realities of life.
- BERN
I don't know the ins and outs of how the club
ran, but it was NOT Gordon's club, it was run by a committee of persons.
I don't think it was over used, and probably the sound proofing would not have been viable (cost wise) but never the less if they were to have loud music
they should have kept it to a minimum - all the gutter politics about and less than a third of people eligible to vote, actually do vote.
says it all
really. - Agreed howard
- lol!... J I thought you were talking about the inmates of Wandsworth Prison
there for a moment. But over the recent scandal certainly a few of them should be incarcerated. But bet it never happens...once the furore dies down the establishment wont put them in jail with the likes of lowly benefit cheats and
social security fraudsters..gawd no!..heaven forbid no!.. for fear of the corruption they might do to the inmates. - nice that people know what the likes of Bill is
thinking - Agree with Phil there stop to have a look on my round this morning, think we will just have to see if it create's the effect there hopeing for.
- did any notice that dover was gridlocked this morning,i allso noticed that the a20 is still gridlocked.
- max
heard a crane fell off a lorry - Max saw you post earlier about the York St roundabout but I dont have any photographs as shure even I cant be everywhere !!lol But no seriously
I did notice there was a huge level of congestion this morning but even now I have no idea what caused it. I take it something happened at the York St roundabout. - a lorry shed
it's load in york street early morning.
no casualties thankfully.
- thanks lads,i did see the offending object but no camra.just wanderd if any one
else saw it thats all. - Keith, I just know what we were told by the noise people. And not only did they not soundproof (it is not my problem if it costs too much, it is their
problem if they make too much noise) but they had all their damned windows open as well, blaring music late into the night. Committee or not, he was part of it. I don't especially want to rake it all up again now, but it is probably
good to remember that there are lots of reasons not to vote for someone. - Frankly on the politics front all parties are as bad as each other at smearing their enemies both
external and internal. To be honest if you lot cannot play like responsible adults those of us who can will sooner rather than later pull the plug on the whole sordid mess. - BERN
And that shouldnt be one of them,
did you report the club to the council on a regulsar basis?
did you inform licensing on the council/police?
you need to know him better if thats all you form your
views on - ross
at the end of the day, the big two parties are so inward looking and self important that they do not know or care what real people think.
they
look at "share of vote" irrespective of ever lower turnouts. - HOWARD
Your not right, both major parties (and i suspect Lib Dems to
study the
results.)
I know the labour party will and does meet every month to find ways to engage
and discuss many issues - of course they meet keith.
of course they
discuss.
do they listen though?
do they communicate with us? - I hope in my short 25 years in your area I discussed/and listened to
you - very best job
- whats that last post about?
- think we are geytting some silly posters paulb
you best delete and keep an eye on this page - Just for the
record Bern I have spent a lot of time dealing with Mr Langsford as have many officers and councillors .I referred to his posting as obscure as the said gentleman cannot come to terms with the fact Im on Age Concern as a trustee have
been for approx 17 years .Im there as Sue Nicholas .not nominated by DDC .Im never referred to as Councillor .In my capicity as Chairman Im Mrs Sue Nicholas .
I will not speak anymore about this gentleman Keith and Rpoger know
how much time we have all spent with this person .
WEll today was quite an experience walking through Market Square .So many people did not realise it would be so large .I found it worse than i
had ever imagined
Coming home on the bus a lady as she passed said she would be contacting DDC as it was disgusting /. - How could anyone produce such a terrible
leaflet .I shall not pay towards any fund raising for money to be spent on such rubbish
Trouble is us in the lower ranks dont have a say ,however we can refuse to distribute.For the record when I stand for an election I pay my
own expenses. - i respect you susan for condemning the leaflet.
in a previous district council election dirt was dished on the doorstep about the same individual,
nothing in writing then though.
- Speaking as a non politico can someone tell me exactly what is wrong with the leaflet featured at the top of this page? I'm
sorry but I just don't get it. I seems pretty mild in terms of the cut and thrust of political jousting. It doesn't appear to me to be in any way anything other than a run of the mill campaigning leaflet which as grown ups we have seen
and heard in the media a thousand times before. It seems to me that if anyone has a problem with reissued newspaper headlines then they should complain to the newpapers who first issued those headlines in the first place.
Are there
any untruths in the leaflet? If so then possible legal action may ensue and if not then I suggest that those on the recieving end should just shutup and take it like grown ups..........or am I missing something?
Yours, truly
perplexed. - PAUL OF DOVER (Don't know who you are)
This is not a run of the mill leaflet, if it was no one would be complaining.
Sadly it's very difficult to do
anything wih the press it hAS been tried at least twice before, we have a very strange system where even though the complaints commission may have sympathy and even agree, they have little teeth, so it goes on.
I have no
problem with attacks on things Labour may have done/not done.
The reproduced article above is of a case the tories quite rightly know had -no- substance in it, but was a clear smear on this person.
Imagine yourself in that
position, having had your family questioned (not by the police!!!!) just to try to get a story that wasn't there in the first place!
I'm pleased that Sue has been the only conservative to distance herself from the leaflet and
for that I thank her, and I have to say I niow have a lot more respect for her.
It's as I say gutter politics, this I suppose is this new face of the conservatives and thats fine now we know what to expect.
Bit sad if sue
is correct that as candidates or members you have no say what goes in a leaflet, theres no way would I allow that to be the case if it was me.
Interestingly still waiting to see the labour leaflet
- Paul I think the problem with the leaflet and Im just putting words in Labourites mouths here by guessing at the problem..but as I see it and with regard to Gordon Cowan,
those headlines suggest in no uncertain terms that he is a dodgy individual up to his neck in dodgy goings on. This is not the case, he has been totally cleared of all those smears, and is as squeeky clean as you and me and maybe even
squeekier. For example he has one of those certificates(whatsitcalled CRB?) which allows a person to work with kids as Gordon does with his football club work in the community and so on.
The leaflet of course clearly suggests
otherwise. Hence the problem. When it upset total nice guy and respected figure Bill Newman you know it wasnt a fair leaflet.
Keef the item Ive had from BarryW is not a leaflet but a letter but is a different kind of thing and not
to do with this current election. - paulb
interesting, thanks for clarifying
well i know what to expect
im pleased im out oif being a candidate uif this is how low
the tories are willing to stoop
- I wasn't happy with the leaflet and said so at the time as I don't believe in attacking the person; it should have been about what
the Conservatives are going to do.
Having said that, they weren't made up, they were real headlines from real (local) newspapers.
I have read some previous Labour election leaflets that contain blatant lies, obvious
blatant lies and they would have known they were blatant lies.
I was so angry about them went to see a number of legal people to see if anything could be done about them but was advised that they are election lealfets, so nothing can
be.
I don't know who makes these leaflets up, but they would have checked them from a legal viewpoint, if not "taste".
I don't think the electorate would have been swayed by them.
Roger - Just a thought PaulB
No one is suggesting or has ever suggested, that Gordon is unfit to run a football club, work with
children, or anything like that.
Your comment that the newspaper headlines suggest that, is incorrect.
Roger - Ermm No Roger I
didnt say that. Have another look.
Just making the point that he isnt dodgy or involved in dodgy dealings like the leaflet suggested. He wouldnt get one of those certificates if he had
been. - Roger
I'm unsure if your saying the leaflet was wrong on not???either it was or wasn't in your eyes.
As iv said I have no problem with political parties
having a go on the diffrent parties policies, that is usual
would hate to leave the Lib dems out, you will recall on Elms vale rec, when it was announced it was stay open, they put a leaflet out saying the lib dems saved elms vale,
although a long way from the truth, as we dont have any active lib dems in priory maxton and elms vale as far as i know, or maybe i missed them?
but that is political parties,
what the leaflet did was attack an individual
(whether you like him or not) the danger being today its gordon, tommorow it could be you. im sure had other candidates from any party had this leaflet produced on them as individuals they wouldnt be happy,
im sure roger you would
kick up.
its gutter stuff, and im more concerned this is going to end up with out and out gutter leaflets.
thats in no one interest
Not sure why Paulb raised the issue of CRB
as a matter of interest he has
CRB checks from 5 or more diffrent bodies (not just footy)
hes a great volunteer
hes a great bloke
but apart from that i hope we get back to policies and not attacking individuals on there PRIVATE LIVES
- Ah apologies Roger. I ve had another read at my post at 6.41 and I can see it could be interpreted that way, although thats not the way I intended it. See my comment
immediately below though for clarification. - Thanks paulb have also clarrified further
and thanks SUE fo having the bottle to stand out, you have gone up in my
estimations - A CRB check is only valid on the day it is issued.
- Mandie]=
that is also correct
think paulb
has confused the issue now!!!
made my comments clear on the leaflet - I hope people do not get the wrong idea about my posting. I am certainly not saying that because a
CRB is only valid on day of issue that Gordon is dodgy in anyway.
I can honestly say I do not know him that well, but he has always been very polite and chatty when I have bumped into him. I wasn't in Dover when the Club thing
hit the press, I kinda arrived at the time he was being cleared of any wrong doing, and if he was cleared of it, then I don't feel it is right to rake it up again. - Mandie
it goes a bit wider than that.
take Gordon out of the discussiion.
IF tories who reproduced the leaflet remain happy with it, then it could be open warfare
that would be in no ones interest.
I thank you MANDIE
for being the 2nd person to distance themselves from the leaflet.
As i say its gordon today someone else tommorow
its someones private life anyway, should we be getting that involved in it?
at the end of the day hes and
others are only local politicians
not celebrity stars - I have just emailed Conservative head quaters I think they should publicly apologise .
You attack policies not
the person .
I think I would be rather labeled ecentric than stoop to this level
Still some people will always rise from the ????Covered in roses. - Well
done SUE
im proud of you
hope you will post the reply (if you get one) - Re CRB - no its not confusing the issue, because these insinuations in the leaflet are from
several years ago..as Mandie said..so you wouldnt have a CRB issued at anytime thereafter for any period of time if your past wasnt up to scratch. Thats the point. Its an important point.
I cant see the confusion..strikes me as
simple logic.
As an aside Mandie...I dont know the machinations of the CRB system but surely you dont have to apply everyday if you are working with kids everyday? - blimey paulb thats a subject on its own, i have a lot of issues with the way the CRB is organised
it goes on and on is this the best place to reply - Ah no jeez
Keef lets not go into detailed discussion on the CRB system right now as we have enough on our plate .. !!lol
- its a real bone of contention for me and very restrictive for
me and many other volunterers like me
by the way i have 3 crb checks on me all diffrent organisations and an advanced crb check
but it needs better organisation maybe a thread on that issue
later? - It's funny that no-one raised a single word of complaint about the leaflet on this forum before the election took place. Now that Labour have received a bloody nose
they are all suddenly up in arms about it. The cries of 'unfair' and 'below the belt' smack of utter hypocrisy given some of the dreadful and often childish stuff their supporters have printed here and stated in the past. I would
find this sudden holier than thou attitude amusing if it wasn't so utterly false. - I had no idea it was being delivered .If I had seen it I would have protested .IT has nothing to do with Labour having blooded noses .Its a code of decency which should be observed .I have always said atack me on policies but
not personal; issuies.
- Badger
I raised it as soon as i saw it. and before the election result!!
its gutter politics
as i keep saying
and now sue is saying
attack the policies no problem
no the personal life of someone
Thanks SUE - Keith for gawds sake give it a rest!! Badger's right,
it's all sour grapes on your part and don't say it isn't because it's so obvious. You go on and on and on ........... I reckon the boss on here should show you the red card before no-one bothers reading this forum anymore. You called
me Mr Grumpy the other day - can we rename you Mr Boring? There's got to be happier things in your life surely? This is supposed to be an open forum, not the Keith Sansum forum lol - Paulb
in light of the conservatives and supporters like mr happy not wanting to have serious debate would it be better to remove the article now?
I'm pleased Sue
and Mandie have been kind enough to see where I was coming from, and understood it had no reflection on the election result
will leave it with you paulb - Funny isn't
it
tories moaned when labour people didnt post
now we do you still moan (mr happy)
can't win can you - never mind kieth you cant please all the people all the time,
so on and so forth.let them roll in there glory no matter how petty and shallow. - It would seem this site is a dedicated political venting site which I find annoying.
An
interest in this subject is good but this is overkill.
I would suggest a separate section for political sparring as I can't read read this page and catch up on the activities on what used to be an interesting site.
I'm sure there
are a few people who may resent my "intrusion",but,I still have ties to Dover and return often.
- Yes the political leaflet
editorial above is due to be changed now anyway..and remember Steve, although you are all the way over there in the USA, we just had an Election here so the website has got a wee bit distorted for the moment with political content. But
its true we are all beginning now to suffer a little bit of Election fatigue. I think its just about all blown over now.
Always good to hear from you. - Keith. May I draw
your attention to my posting of the 4th June' What hope Dover' in defence of you. It is the quote from Roosevelt. - Hear hear, Steve Power from the USA. Totally agree. Too much
toytown politicking and left-right/blue-red point-scoring. Fiddling while Dover burns. - The bottom shot is a super one, just so sad the river is
obviously being strangled with weeds and rubbish. Croc worked so hard to keep the river looking its best, and now the big honchos have taken over it looks worse than ever, so sad - guess who attended the town council tonight????
yep/
interestingly the express
article came up and no one disagreed that the article on mayor making was inaccurate
so much so the town council is to write to the express over it
the best advice was from cllr morgan who said she hasnt brought the express
for over 4 years since she noticed it started to attack individuals well said Independent cllr MORGAN - confused here keith.
if the town council think that the article
was accurate why would they write to the express?
is this councillor morgan representing maxton, elms vale and priory ward? - sorry rushed that one
had
loads of people phoning
The town cllrs all agreed the article was totally inaccurate
so will be writing to express dismayed at the inaccurate reporting by the
express - yep cllr morgan is same one
- And i spotted another forumite at the town council
lurking - would you be so kind as to pass councillor morgan a street map of the ward with clear directions how to get here keith?
more importantly how about district
councillor revell?
i have a clear conscience of not having voted for either, but would still be nice to know what they look like. - Im afraid howard i do not
have contact with either any more than you.
there phone numbers im sure will be in the town/District council offices - Yes Mandie they are lovely pictures in from Ian
but of course what they are showing is disappointing to see. He did send in other pictures too all of the same top quality but all showing sadly the miserable plight of the river.
I think it all probably went wrong once the
Riverwatch thing kicked in. Prior to that a happy band of volunteers from the now ancient original Doverweb used to clean it up as volunteers and very successful it seemed to be at that stage. Down among the grass roots as it were.
Various stages of officialdom joined in after that but not to any real effect by the looks of it. - Does he never give up - Sansum (Mr Grumpy) I mean? Moan moan moan!! Thank
goodness we have PaulB and Mandie on here, at least the've moved things on. Big shame about the Dour though as they say. I seem to remember there were a couple of young ladies and their children involved in the clean ups - am I right? I
think one was called Heidi (remember that because it's my daughter's name). What a shame they weren't allowed to continue. Ian Lilford seems so dedicated he should be allowed to continue his good work. Maybe he could build a ducking
stool for people who constantly moan lol. Now there's an idea! Might be a tourist attraction too, you never know. - paulb,your pc problem try asking phil west who is a pc
wizard.tryed to put this on your original post but no joy as yet. - I have written constantly to various people and bodies about the state of the Dour - Cabinet members,
Environment Agency and others and not even had the courtesy of a reply - from any of them.
I'm happy to stick my head above the parapet, so to speak and state that I think it is a disgrace that no one takes the river
seriously.
Hundreds of millions of pounds are being put into Dover's regeneration (which is great of course), but nothing is being done to put the river in order.
Why spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on river cycle
paths and walking trails alongside the river, when parts of it are like a floating skip.
Who in officialdom cares ??
And please don't tell me about talking Dover down, if this isn't taken seriously soon, there won't be a
river.
Roger - Ian (aka Croc) was so devoted to clearing up the Dour, and did a mighty fine job to. It is so sad that the enviroment
agency didn't call on his experience, but I guess they thought they knew better.
Croc was a legend when it came to river clean ups, he motivated people to give up their own free time to help get the rubbish out.
shame on
those who have ignored Roger W when raising the issue, and I know Croc has to.
This is our river, and these big agencies really don't give a damn. I do't know the answer to re-claiming our river from the likes of EA, but
something needs to be done. - Volunteers are more than welcome to help remove rubbish from the river via the monthly summer clean ups organised by the White Cliffs Countryside
Project. However, we are not allowed to touch the weeds, that falls under the jurisdiction of the Environment Agency. We usually cover Barton Path, Pencester Gardens and Dover College and occasionally other areas in need of attention.
Please see their website for more details. - Well done for bringing this to public attention. Sorting out the Dour is so basic to making Dover a pleasant place to live.
- Mr Happy yes the young ladies you refer to were Heidi and Tracey. They had quite a few kids between them so plenty on hand to help out cleaning up in the
river. There was a good group of other volunteers who also used to do it, all led by 'Croc' Ian Lillford, all done out of community spirit. They made a difference. They're work was recognised but in the end got little support.
Officialdom eventually joined in the glorious good work..but a cynic might say it was for the photoshoots for the newspapers..!!
But Im not a cynic! - having read through the
posts on the members club i noticed a lot of one liners being posted over the last week. - have they?
- mr
happy
And Why shouldnt i have a viewpoint?
General
on the river dour, I remember playing as a kid in the river dour opposite the old royal mail depot.
Did cut my foot once, so maybe it did have its problems
then, but no where near as bad as now.
It was never so overgrown, it was a nice river flowing.
Keep up the good fight Roger/Ian you will get there in the end - Howard - please don't ever stop posting!!!!
- Just a comment on the lead story about Hellfire Corner Weekend. Astor won't be performing "Blitz" due I believe to the illness of a teacher.
- Thanks for keeping us up to speed with whats going on Terry. Hope the teacher gets okay soon. There is of course lots of other stuff going on, BarryW has put up a
thread on the Forum with the schedule of events. Quite a packed schedule.
Okay Brian, come back into the Members Club fold. But dont flood us out with inane one liners anymore. I get quite a bit of feedback as you can imagine and
people DONT LIKE IT! Im not interested myself in blocking anyone out, I dont like doing it, but help me out here. Only post when something substantial to say. 98% one liner input doesnt help in a debating chamber, Thanks in
advance. - yes howard as you well know.
- should be a great weekend in pencester.
fingers crossed for the
weather.
looks like the music will be as good as ever. - Dusting off my uniform and Linda is getting out the RED lipstick! Victoria wants to dress up
too.
D - the one at shepards well/eytorne looks better one of the two this weekend,seems to be more going on over there than the one in dover.with an added bounus of
steam train rides ect going on both days with lots of millatary viecals,kaz doing her bit etc. - That's a shame that two big events are going on at the same time in the same
District - and similar themes.
Dover will be my favourite.
Roger - roger,yes it is a shame,it is allso a shame that both arnt
advertised on this forum equelley to avoid biased opinion. - Good luck BarryW, I shall be there with my family. If it's anything like last years it will be a knockout. Everyone in
Dover should at least pop along there over the weekend, you will certainly get the feelgood factor. My wife reckons Barry is the bees knees in his navy uniform, she says he makes her heart flutter! That's ok, while she's looking at him
I can listen to the wonderful music and watch the girls he he! Looking forward to it. - Max/Brian
Just a gentle hint - if you used spellcheck on your computer we could read
your postings more easily - just a thought! - Hi Mr Happy,
Tell your wife I agree - Barry does look rather dashing in his uniform lol I'm looking forward to seeing the show
too, hope the weather stays fine. Good luck Barry et al. - I have been asked which pub in Dover will be screening the Rugby - I know many footy pubs but can't help with Rugby -
anyone?
D - DavidH I will be over there about mid-day and will have the trusty camera. So will get a picture of you even with Linda's red
lipstick...this is just to prove that I have no prejudices either way!!lol !! - jacqui, spellcheck is not very helpfull in my case.
davdh,try the big tv in the markrt
square,nice and handy for the elle etc. - the 1940s weekend at sheapardswell are having a tank battle in the woods behind the station twice daily plus other events during the day
with lots of renactors taking part.plus a vintage bus rides from the court house pencester road to both venues,they will be running every half an hour both ways both days probably with a small charge of 50p each
way. - the eight bells always show all of the 6 nations rugby live.
there is no football on, so it is odds on they will show the rugby from south africa. - what,go and sit with the rif raf no chance.
- i hardly ever go in there max.
i feel sure that big davids friend
would not even notice who was in there, whilst the match was on. - Remember Max - the Pencester event is also to support our hard pressed shops, cafe's and
restaurants. Dover Town Centre will not benefit at all from the Shepherdswell event.
It is sad that they are on the same weekend but lets hope both events go well.
I am glad that Kas got a booking there, sadly we could
not accomodate her this weekend in Pencester as we had to ring some changes this year.
Mr Happy, you and your wife must come and introduce yourselves to me.
I am so sun burnt I am wondering if I will be able to wear the
Navy officers hat as it is quite tight!!! - I'd like to echo Barry's comment about having two events on, the same week-end.
I don't know
when The Hellfire Corner weekend in Pencester was booked, probably last July, but if DDC Events committee had anything to do with the Shepherdswell event, then they would have known that the two events were on the same week-end and could
have changed the date of theirs - they would not then have had to share the visitors.
The weather (at 06.16) looks good.
Roger - can
anyone recommend someone to service my chain saw locally? - I is also River School fete
- I
am a little alarmed by the last 2 posts............. - davidh,whats the purpose for the chain saw,can i have two guesses,1,to chase after sue nicholas,2,the loverly tv screen in
the market square.
barryw,i can understand your sentiment about pencester gardens one and local shops,but as allways i think you will find that shepardswell comes under the same descript as pencester.may i allso remindyou that there
vintage busses allso running from pencester in whitch the visators to your one can allso vist sheapardswell and visa versa.so in theroy people can do both in the same day. - Knew
where you would migrate to Paul! - Well what a beautiful day it was in Pencester today. The organisers of the 1940's weekend should feel very proud of
today's event.
I am so fed up with people complaining there nothing to do in Dover, when you get an event like the one we had today. Beautiful weather, fab feel good feeling. The recession was wiped away from those who attended
the event today, and I for one ceratinly left feeling as though I had, had a super day.
THANKS GUYS AND GALS FOR A SUPERB DAY IN DOVER !!!! - I REALLY need a chain saw
repairer - mind you when I have got it fixed....... - lol!! ah yes indeed Terry, but I had my daughter with me and she keeps me in check, cant get up to any
mischief with BB around..ermm not that I would of course! but yes the girl above was very good...must book her for my next "do" !! That could be a revealing night!
Yes a great day. I myself would still love a drinks tent. I know
there are by-laws and what have you, but wouldent it be nice in flaming june..they can have one on the seafront!
Saw BarryW and Una, chairman and treasurer, and they have done a very good job indeed. More tomorrow of
course.
Can somebody please give poor Dave the number of a chain saw repair specialist so that he can get on with the chain saw massacre part II ! - Max - did
Shepherdswell go well and was the bus well used?
Great if the two events boosted each other, certainly the feeling is that we had more visitors in Pencester than ever before.
Of course, though, anyone taking the bus to
Shepherdswell would not be spending any money in Dover shops/cafe's etc while In Sheps...
We did have a few less exhibitors than last year and fewer re-enactors, inevitable as there are only so many to go around, but what was
most important were the record visitor levels. I was stunned at just how many there were, it was constant with no slack period.
Help for Heroes collection went well as did, I understand, the Wings Appeal and The British
Legion.
We are told that our exhibitor numbers will be boosted tomorrow though and our crowd, thanks to the Dukies, are likely to beat our previous Sunday attendancies by a country mile. - barryw,yes it went well with an added bonus of ekr running a train from sheaperdswell and eythorne every half hour,the raf plotting team,dessert rats team with montgomery and
many more in atendance.a nice large crowd turned out to the event,not only locals ie dover and surrouding villages but from around the world,americans,australians,new zealanders etc all can and enjoyed
themselves. - ps.to my last post,the entertainment was very good to.
- DDC Events committee had nothing to do with East
Kent Railway.
It was a wonderfull day with lots of nice people, Great displays this is there 3rd year and now that thay have brought a feild next to the Railway for an arena so that the military Vehicles can prade around and a stage
put up for the Performers. Next year will be bigger, with WW1 re-enactment team vintage buses and cars and a steam lorry,plus steam trains every half hour. The George Cross for Dover as well as The Dover War Memorial Project have a very
good display this year and hope to make it bigger next year. If any of you can get out to it this sunday its well worth a look, And we have Tanks plus motor bikes of the armed forces and many vehicles that went to Normandy for the 65th
Anv. - i know i am being pedantic alan, but could this not have been co-ordinated with the ddc events committe?
two similar events at the same time?
both deserving
of full support, maybe they could be on different weekends next year? - She's certainly easy on the eye. Bring it on.
- She performed last night at the dance. She was more scantily dressed than at the daytime performances. Of course she did not 'go all the way' and was by no means
inappropriate, but it was very sexy. In fact she was sexy because she did not take all her clothes off...... There is a lesson there for todays young maybe.... - Couldn't agree more Barry, a very sexy outfit (black fishnet stockings and a tiny bikini type of outfit - you had to be there to appreciate it), a very sexy and lovely looking Lady.
All round it was a very good evening
- now, where can I get some dancing lessons that don't cost the earth ?
Roger - That's what I said on the 13th. at 06.18 Howard.
If
it's a big display in the District, doesn't DDC's events committee HAVE to be involved ?
I would have thought that if the two committees talked to each other, they could have different week-ends and help each other.
If
it stops raining, I'd like to get down there this morning as I couldn't be there yesterday and The Duke of York's are marching at
10.00.
Roger - All people have to do is ring the lady at DDC who is in charge of coordinating the events in the district .This person
holds a ist of events which are to be held through out the year .Only a phone call away .
I was on the committee for some years .Its now one of Nigels many jobs .Well now back to knitting tea cosies , - it might be better if cordanated a bit more with out a certain commite member.one must remember that the events in the later years WAS british cordanated by the british and
NOT the americans.it struke me yesterday that how americanised the pencester one has got over the last couple of years.the pencester one does need balanceing out a little to compensate this,organizers please take
note. - Raining? We have brilliant stifling sunshine up here. Sorry :-(! I sincerely hope it does stop raining down there, for you all. I wish you all the very best.
It
does seem most unfortunate that there are two events on the same weekend in close proximity that seem to have the same theme - I'm sure this can be avoided next year, to the added enjoyment of everyone.
Unfortunately we, The
Dover War Memorial Project, owing to family circumstances, have been able to attend very few events in Dover this year, including this weekend. That's a huge disappointment to us (though I can assure everyone the work here on
remembering our Fallen goes on without abatement!), and our display, currently in the library with the Walter Tull exhibition, was vandalised, as the papers reported, so now needs repairs.
But - as always, onwards and upwards!
Have a good day, all of you – we’re certainly thinking of you!
Ah, and while we’re at it, the burlesque lady looks lovely … but maybe next year, for us ladies, a handsome man as well, with camouflage netting? :-D
- Wow! Great photo of the tantalising burlesque dancer, very sexy, as PaulB said what you really need after that nice shock to the system on a very hot day is a
long cool G & T or an ice cold lager. - BarryW is right: less is usually more, with men as well as women. Next time as well as a lovely lady, perhaps a lovely, tall, broad
shouldered fella possibly in rugby kit, possibly simply dressed for dinner..........ahhhhhh.....back in the day....... - Yes it is a shame the 2 events couldn't have got together
arranged say two weekends on the trot
first one in Dover nd one in shepherdswell
coordinating the bus services to both events, how sweet would that have been.
On the event itself I had haLF hour down at pencester and rather
than be critical I would like to CONGRATULATE al;l those that put on the event.
The Duke of yorks band were great, and crowds swarmed out, it was all great to see.
just shows put a few events like this on and people do
support it.
Everyone can learn from this years event, and the advertising can be better next year.
WELL DONE - I attended the event in Pencester both yesterday and today because I was so impressed from te first day. However I did notice something very odd.
Yesterday I
saw the lovely Dover carnival court, all looking smart and so lovely to speak to, and then today I was greeted by another group of girls(ceratinly not the same ones from yesterday) who claimed to be the carnival court. I wonder if this
were some sort of joke as they did not look smart at all and were walking around barefoot at the event, surely this is not how a carnival court behaves. They were certainly not like the girls I saw yesterday or like the girls who
represent Ramsgate.
I do hope the ones I saw today don't tour other towns I much prefer the girls I met yesterday - len,i think you will find there are two carnival courts
in dover. - Good comments Keith and I agree with your mention of marketing the event - several people have said to me about the promotion of it.
Great singers
and vehicles; I loved the Buick that must have arrived this afternoon, what a beauty.
Guzzler said about Mandie needing a convertible - you couldn't get a better one than this.
I also agree with the comments from Len of
Ramsgate; I saw those 3 girls walking round asking for money - I didn't see many people donate.
Why doesn't this old one just close down ? it's well passed it's sell-by date and does nothing to enhance the reputation of
Dover.
Roger - Today in pencester must have brought tears to the eye's not only to some of the Parent's but to anyone who was watching,
The Duke of Yorks military School do their Drumhead Ceremony.
Along side the 1940's weekend made a very unique opportunity to see how these's younster's, are proud of the tradition and history that goes with this town. - Twas a great day
I don';t know to much about yesterdays or todays carnival gear, I did put some dosh in the tin as i left.
This event(and the shepherdwell
one ) could benefit so much from talking to each other.
Apart from that , as i say, it was great what i saw of it, well attended, and the singing great, all round great for Dover
WELL
DONE - Max- I didn't see you in Pencester.
Actually if anything there was a good balance between American and British while some years we have had a much greater
American influence. Personally I would much prefer more British but the re-enactors tend to gravitate towards American because of the smarter and more comfortable uniforms.
The USO, who played a prominent part over this weekend,
are an American living history group but they watered that down with entertainment that did include some the the great British wartime acts. Many of the great old British songs of the period, Underneath the Arches, for instance were
performed.
Lets face it we where else could you be entertained by Noel Coward, Bud Flanagan, George Formby and Max Miller. Bing Crosby included from the American side too of course...
Plenty of Dame Vera's great hits too
of course....from the Swingtime Sweethearts who I believe are the best all round girl singers I have seen.
All together a great weekend.
Yes, it would have been better all round if the two local events were on seperate
weekends but, as I understand it, the Shepherdswell organisers switched their date because the original date coincided with the 65th D Day rememberance.
I would hope that this will not happen next year, it would be crazy for it to
happen. We certainly would prefer to keep the same equivilent weekend next year but might consider alternatives if necessary. - Barrw
Thats all it needs, your 2 groups
talking together, it would be in the interests of both your groups.
but a great weekend in pencester!
if its 2 seperate weekends next year I could go to both - barryw,was down there saterday morning,hung round for an hour or so kept looking for you but alass i didnt see
you. - Next years 1940s weekend is the last weekend in June 2010 at the East kent Railway I will Post a list of whats comeing to this event closer to the Date. But so far we have
WW1 & WW2 Reinactment Groups with Vintage & Military Vehicles all ready booked to come along also a bus showing films of the 40s life in kent. - I note that then Alan and the
next Hellfire Corner weekend will not be that one. - barryw,try and get over there with or without your uniform.
- Hi All
Tried to log in but failed miserably so have resorted to posting here.
BarryW
Glad to read that the Hellfire weekend was yet another great success.I trust the weather stayed good for the weekend.Sorry I
had to miss it but we have tried to intergrate over here by attending various parish fetes which have been super.
I have been following the Wetherspoons thread and for some unknown reason there isn't one on the island so people
still use a variety of old and new pubs.The local Liberation Ale brewed on the island varies from £2.30 -50p per pint.Cider and Lager about £3.00 a pint.Spirits (not Jeanne's ones..lol) are about £2 a nip with no special offers on or
Happy Hours but a lot of places put on free Tapas type bites at 5-6pm for the homegoing office workers.
As it was nice yesterday I took the girls on a mini tour of the island stopping at various places like Devils Hole and Wolf
Caves with stops at some of the lovely Sandy Bays.
I decided to take them to the Jersey War Tunnels for afternoon tea.They have built a lovely new reception area and restaurant.Whilst there I was chatting to the Manager and the
conversation got around to Dover.I mentioned the new LD ship thingymijig and the lovely castle and Roman Painted House etc trying to sell the place.After I had finished spouting forth the chap said that he and his wife were in Dover last
year.They stayed the night in a Guest House before setting sail to the Continent. He told me that they had started to go into town for an evening meal but after passing various groups of unruly youths they felt too scared to continue and
returned to their GH.The following day they went into town and his words were " to be greeted by a run down faceless town which appeared to be full of drunks and layabouts".
He said that he felt unsafe.
He asked me why had
Dover been allowed to decline so?,why did we appear to have such a big drug problem?, how come we still had so many immigrants residing in Dover?why were 'we' not spending more on promoting our best features like the Castle or cleaning
up the streets and town centre etc?.
I felt so sad and ashamed as I tried to defend Dover that I didn't bother having my cream tea and the girls just purchased an ice cream and we left with our tails between our legs. He wasn't
being nasty but just stating facts as he an outsider saw them. A criuse liner with approx 700 German tourists docked last week for a few hours and the event was covered by the press and TV with shops and restaurants making a bigger
effort to welcome these new day trippers.The Island is actively trying to lure more of these cruise liners onto its shores.
Please take note Dover Councillors this was not a gripe from a disgruntled Dovorian who has been banging
their head against a brick wall for years in an attempt to get you to do something but from a man involved in the Tourist industry who appeared to have some knowledge of his subject.This is the impression that Dover has and is giving to
the rest of the world.For gawds sake get your fingers out now and do something rather than prevaricating for the next 20 years or so.
I will try to log on when I have my own computer up and running but its still in its packing
case at present.
I am enjoying reading all the DF postings and loved Jeannes tale of her visit to the Sky studios.Will post a regular postcard from Jersey just as soon as possible. Get better soon
Croc..lol. - A great post and sadly that is how people who visit see this town even locals who did not whant the TV screen were not listend to. enjoy Jersey. good
luck. - Thanks for that
Marek, very interesting.
Different people who come to Dover see the Town through different eyes; the person you spoke to would have had a jaundiced view from those unsavouries he encountered, which is very sad.
Many other
have said how much they enjoy the Town and think it's wonderful.
I think much more is (urgently) needed - from smartening up the buildings to opening up the shops.
While there is a lackadaisical attitude from both
authorities, not much progress can be made: who was it who played the fiddle while Rome burned ? seems an appropriate analogy to me.
Roger - Marek - it's good to hear from you, even if it is a bit of a poke in the eye!! It does us good to hear from an outsider sometimes, and to remind ourselves that actually, we should keep "banging our heads" against the
proverbial, because it counts.
Take care Marek - call again!! - Marek always good to hear from you..sounds very pleasant over there in Jersey.
But regard the real
serious quote about Dover
" a rundown faceless town ..full of drunks!"
certainly if those visitors tried it on saturday night and the chances are they did...then it probably appeared that way from the 'drunks and layabouts'
aspect. The run down faceless bit is all too true, I was just overthere the other night trying to view it from a visitors point of view and I'm afraid the description is all too accurate. It's very easy for us local residents almost
not to notice after a while, as we are so used to seeing it..you become numb to the pain if you like. But Im afraid its very very tatty along Bench St in particular, our first port of call for visitors if I can put it that way. Remember,
most visitors will be comparing it to other places theyve seen and it wont score well.
I know guys like Roger are working hard with marketing, but the product behind the marketing is letting them down.
The seafront is our
best area, although the Castle is fab I cant help but feel that its not part of the town. They dont work in harmony with the town on any of their promotions. They exist as a seperate entity or so it seems to me..and to many others. A
disappointing aspect that.
By the way ALAN, your membership to the members club is open if you want to post there.It was blocked as we hadnt heard from you in ages..so if you want to post on there feel
free.
- Paulb Thank you for your kindness Will do.
- Great pictures but how can the mayor be seen in
public with her head down as though she's praying behind the vicar? she does'nt even believe in God dos she with her being a pagan - that's what it says on her
car - Yesterday I learnt that english Heritage is stopping any future public evening events at walmer castle ( Dinners etc ) - the last one for the Men of Kent being on July
4th. I understand that this is a policy but this is against the background of the belief that our monuments are ours and we want access. Sad,eh? - Wendy, I too
keep my head down when I'm involved in such things. This is all about about respect not religion. I don't believe in God either, so head down to me is not praying, it's respect. - Wendy, I too keep my head down when I'm involved in such things. This is all about about respect not religion. I don't believe in God either, so head down to me is not praying, it's
respect. - Wow, first time that's ever happened to my postings! Still, it made the point.
- If the
mayor is a pagen (who nows?) how does she stand when it comes to relijous things that she has to do as mayor? things like saying prayers at rememberance day and church services? - I quite agree Terry head down is a mark of respect, but is the mayor a pagan? and i know i'm a bit slow but what does that mean
- I can't speak for the Mayor folks,
I just give it from my point of view. - Surely the mayor bit is a conflict of interest?
- not
realy,either you are or yore not,a bowed head is a sign of respect what ever way you look at it.if its a conflict of intrest look at yourself first before you make a comment yourself. - My dad always said keep your head down because you will never find anything looking up,He was right Found £600 in France just Skewd up on the floor what a weekend that was.
- Boats
I don't know anything about being a pagan, I thought it was anti the church? a serious nomn believer.
Not sure how that sizes up to a mayor who iks supposed to surely be part of a church believing
outfit?
Maybe I can be convinced otherwise? - I hope she is a pagan - there has been a sad lack of nude tree dancing and branch waving in Dover. Go, Mayor!!!!!
Alternatively, apparently I am a Druid, according to the last census we had to fill in, so perhaps she might consider that direction. I don't think her faith/culture/fern-worship/whatever will impact on her duties as Mayor unless she
is forced to sacrifice one of the local councillors in a pagan ritual - if so, would we be able to nominate people? And watch? - The mayoress sue jones rocks. she is a great
woman with strong opinions and views. many peole could learn a lot from her. - Yes sue jones is a pagan and does it really matter how ever someone chooses to pay their
respects at least she attended. - bern i have an endless list of names she could sacrifice. lol
- sue
jones did tell me the difference of pagans etc but i cant remember sadly. - Still to be convnced, whilst us plebs can hold whatever beliefs we choose, the Mayor (I thought)
was looked upon as a church believer. am i wrong? what would the public in general think if they invited her along then found out she isn't a believer?
As I say for us plebs it don't realy matter, but thought you signed up to
be part of the church outfit? - what does the church think? surely as mayor she should declare her non belives and let the dupty mayor go to church on her behalf just a
thought - surely it doesnt matter what beliefs sue jones holds. as long as she does dover proud of her mayoress duties then behind closed doors she should be left to do her own
thing. we as the public who voted for her dont own her. - keith the mayor at end of the day is a human just like everyday joe bloggs what does being mayor have to do
with religious beliefs where does it state you have to believe in god to be a mayoress? - at end of day sue jones is a great woman who works hard. sticks to her
beliefs. will do anything for anyone. sadly has many people who will try and tarnish her name etc because of her beliefs and some because of jealousy (not naming names) of her success.
- OMG I cannot believe this is even being brought into question.
1. None of anyones business quite frankly whether she believes or not, as long as she is
showing respect.
2. Does she allow her belief to rule her role?? NO
As tinkerbell says. Sue is great and works hard, and for me I couldn't care less what she believes in. It is nothing to do with me, or anyone else quite
frankly. Leave her alone - thankyou mandie. ;)
- As long as Sue performs her duties well as Mayor, no-one
should give a fig what she personally believes in. Paganism is such a loose collection of vague interpretations of mostly pre-Christian beliefs it is very hard to pin down. It is certainly not anti-Church as suggested below. Many of
their 'beliefs' are diverse and rooted in folklore traditions, even the alleged historical basis of their rituals are questionable much of it being rooted in 19th century romanticism.
The Royal Navy has a Satanist onboard one
of its frigates - and why not? Why shouldn't Dover have a pagan mayor? We should all be able to believe in what we wish, or indeed nothing as befits the individual. If Sue wishes to believe in Mother Goddesses, nature spirits or
whatever, then go for it. Having met a few pagans they have all been principled and decent people with no grudge, just happy to carry on in their own belief system, however they define it. This is quite in contrast with the actions of
many of the local Christian church leaders I've heard horror stories about.
Judge Sue on her actions, not her private beliefs. - so thats two other sensible people from
dover. nice to see. - Unbelievable! What business is it of mine what faith or culture she has as long as she doesn't a) commit acts of barbarism or b) frighten the horses.
Blimey - if people could only see what goes on in respectable peoples homes.........
Being respectable isn't a format or a template and it isn't belonging to one creed or another: it's how you live your life now and the
respect and dignity you allow others. - her worshipful would have made her oath on something other than a bible.
just like they do in court. - I'm with you Bern and Phil. It does not matter what she personally believes in respect of religion as long as she represent Dover with dignity and respect for the
traditions of the role. Her lowering her head is a sign of respect to those at the service.
I speak as an athiest. - Might have been reading the programme of
course! - just wot i was thinking terry,or she could be checking her shoes for doggie doings.
- What a Croc
have you lot got nothing better to do than slag people off. Dover is run down the market square looks like a bomb site the streets are filthy the parks are overrun by drunks and all you have got to talk about is our Mayor. You sad
bunch. - Jedi, Lesbion, Ninja warrior, DOES IT MATTER?
Leave the woman alone and let her get on with her term of office for gods sake, Sue has alot to offer and for all I
care she could come from the planet zit.
Ian... - Alan, leave Croc out of this. LOL.
- A Ninja Warrior Princess for Mayor - I think that would be cool.............................
- or a member of monster raving
loony party - I am disgusted that you can take such an important service like the century of the DYRMS in Dover and do nothing but play silly politics, Mr Samsun you stated
that when you became a PCSO that you were stopping with politics, you haven’t, get over it your buddy didn’t get mayor, and didn’t get county, let Sue do the job, if she gets it wrong we the residents of Dover will forgive
her. - Glad to see that Sue is getting the support she deserves.
She'll be a good Ambassador for Dover, given the
chance.
Roger - to right let sue get on with her job and leave politics out of it.
- Dave you are probably correct let Sue do the job however in some circles one false move and you are out You can work your socks off but some expect a high standard all the time .Code of Conduct Im told.The only time you can be
yourself is in your home and then you are still on duty .I have had many people turn up on my doorstep all times of the day .
Will there or has there been a Civic Service ?? - dyrms?
someone illuminate me please. - Duke of York Royal Military School ..
howard. - Illuminate you, howard?
I've got a set of redheads, if that'll help. No blondes though. ;-) - The civic service will be at St Marys Church on Sunday 19th July at 10.45 and I shall be there for the Town and the Mayor - I hope lots of you will be too.
- Dave here there and everywhere
you said to Mr Samsun that if Sue gets it wrong the residents of Dover will forgive her, then why have some of the residents of
Dover forgiven Mr Samsun's Buddy after all it was proven He did nothing wrong, may be Mr Samsun's Buddy should be remembered for the good work He has done in this town even when he was'nt
Mayor. - Sorry have'nt done this before I mean't to say to Dave here there and everywhere why have some of Dover's resident's NOT forgiven Mr Samsun's
buddy - What do the vicars of Dover think of the mayor being a pagon? do they know or care? someone said sue would have sworn her othe on something other than the Bible but did
the town clark now to bring another book. - Can the person using the multiple personalities and the different names please just stick to one name. Your postings are welcome but
please stick to one name. Its not fair to the other contributors who are trying to treat the different personalities fairly, not knowing they are one and the same. Many thanks. - Why would anyone do that anyway?!
- basically beacuse they can get away with it.
the internet is full of people that can only communicate using an alias.
that
is the joy of the members page. - is that pic taken close to dover college?
i saw a family of ducks there last week.
they look very similar to the ones
i saw. - Lovely picture Kathy! Very, very cute.
- AMY(Whoever you are)
your are correct on Gordon C
- Picture taken on the path just up from the bowls club
- that would be by the police station
then. - yes, near the cop shop then we walked up to come out where the bus station is (if that makes sense). There was a little moorhen there too (I think it was a moorhen but I'm
no David Attenborough) - What a lovely photo Kathy.
- Ah yes it was indeed Jeane, have just removed
it now to make way for the next feature..on..oh no! that TV Screen again!! - As I have said previously about the TV screen, mostly weather and teletext-style news headlines, all
of which people can get in the comfort of their own home through the box or online. This will only draw a crowd for one or two special occasions every year, otherwise it will be just as you see in the pictures above...a waste of money
blighting the Market Square. A driver for regeneration? About as likely as Asda coming and the DTIZ ever seeing the light of day I'm afraid. - Well I did make
my way through the Market Square and I could not believe the number of people with their back to it .The street lamp obscurs the lower left hand side of the screen .The sun does not help .
Its like everything people will not look
at it for information .We have those large advertising boards through out the the town ,the one that makes me laugh an advert for Waitrose.
Not mant seats in Market square either .
- rather negative comments at the moment,seeing that its only broadcasting test transmissons at the moment.remember to look
posative. - let us all give it a chance, there are only test transmissions at present.
contrary to paul's experience, when i was there, most eyes were on the
screen. - It's a telly. A. Big. Telly. A big telly, by the Ellie. That's all. What does everyone expect people to do? Point at it, open-mouthed, and prostrate
themselves beneath a big wicker effigy of John Logie Baird in the Market Square fountain?
Have just checked today's TV listings. Here's one worth Sky-plussing: "'Demolition Live!' - watch as the wrecking balls lay waste to
Burlington House, beamed direct onto the Market Square big screen. Time: 2035." - Blinking heck, give it a chance - it's only on test transmission at
the moment and isn't showing any local content yet. Not many people may be looking at it in the above pictures, well, neither are the vast hoards of lager-swilling Visigoths that some doom-mongers insisted would clog up the Market
Square chanting and hurling abuse. - What an eyesore, its made the area look cheap and messy. The poor people who live in the market square looking out on that all day.
Yet
another huge mistake by thoes in charge of Dover. It is awful, can they really not see that? - It is hardly an eyesore on a par with Snoops, or the rubbish left lying around
after collection day, or the vomit outside the pubs. Frankly, without prejudice as I hold no brief for or against the blinking thing, it looks fine except for the builders stuff around it. If you want an eyesore, just walk towards the
sea and check out the buildings left in a state of neglect. - Is there any sound with it?
- yes there is when they turn
it up. - i can only think of two recent structures in dover.
the seasports centre and the screen, both get described as eyesores.
is it surprising that we do not
attract new businesses? - Exactly, Howard. Dover resists adventure and enterprise and then complains because we have no adventure and enterprise...........So much
here to enjoy and be grateful for, but so little effort expended to promote and advertise it. - ahem,a new ditz plan has been uncovered,its going to be a new theme park called
walking with lorries.its being backed by dhb. - Interesting view about the gentleman pulling "weed"out of the Dour on the front page of the Dover Express.I have it from the
"horses mouth" as such,that the "weed"is in fact a very important part of the ecology and bio-diversity of the river,and the said "weed"was only being "hot housed"there for distribution along the length and breadth of the
river.The same source stated to me that the enviroment agency were "Incandesent"with rage. - should that be correct, why have the environment agency not passed on this
information.
the "gentleman" that you mention and others have contacted the agency by e mail many times, they have not been furnished with replies. - J.
I
had a letter (email) from the Environment Agency yesterday and they have not mentioned this "hot-housing" at all; quite frankly, I don't believe it.
Ian told me what they were called and the fact that they were planted by the
EA isn't a problem; what is a problem, is the amount it has grown to now and is choking the river and they have no intention of coming down and thinning it out.
When I was down there Monday morning (at the time of the photo-
shoot) the weed was so thick, you could see where someone had thrown up in the river on top of this weed and because it is so thick, it just lay there.
The river further up (Crabble Corn Mill and Kearsney area) and further down
through the Town area) seems to be looked after a little more, but not this section: the question is - why not ?
I still maintain that if the EA can't give it the attention, time and effort it deserves, then give it back to the
people of Dover.
Roger - My thoughts are, the screens here lets give it a chance, i have no strong feelings either way, but lets at least
give it a whirl. - J.
If our Croc has stirred the lazy backsides of those at the EA in to actually doing some work then good on him.
Maybe now they will get
their A***s into gear and do something about all the crap in our River. - no lager louts just yet but then I suppose they havent put any sport on yet either!! and a majority of
the people that spend a lot of time outside the pub there are not likely to be bothered by the news are they!!! - Why not? I many places people eat,
drink, converse and perhaps even watch a bit of news or sport on a screen in the open air. It may even stimulate a discussion!! - might be an idea to have a forum picnic down
there one saterday afternoon. - what a spiffing idea max, susan can be mother.
- and dont forget the dogey
joders,opps i mean jammie dodgers - Kidding aside, what a good idea!!!!
- What a load of tripe and a waste of money the
gogglebox is...do those at DDC just sit around and watch TV all day?? Lets hope it comes down soon. In that location its ridiculous. Wouldn't it have been suited better to the dtiz development in the new shopping precinct and new square
behind the old town? I think its out of place where it is and would much suit the new modern development which will happen at some point...soon! To me at the mo its the 21st equivalent of Burlington House. I think DTIZ would have been a
better site alongside the new hotels and Asda, a square with cafes etc and the TV there out the way of the old town and in the new bit. - And another positive post for
Dover. Thanking you. - Thanks Paul
I really do hope this inititiative works for Dover and the historic sites and attractions, the accommodation sector and of course the
shops, pubs, cafe's and businesses.
I am going to try for funding again from the tourism body WCCTA and the Town Council, so we can have a version in English - DHB have already said they will help with distribution and displaying
and the businesses have all said they would like an English version that could be distributed all around Town, for people who visit Dover, from places other that
Boulogne.
Roger - Well all comments are welcome Bern and I wouldnt say that one from Dovorian was negative, it just displays a different
set of positives! But a voice for the 'dont knows' is always interesting from a 'balanced view' perspective. Many people who dont like the screen are still great lovers of the town which I think is clear. But not everyone agrees on
the way forward.
Even the DTIZ had its detractors, and many of them, but looking back now I wonder if those people still feel that same way about the DTIZ...now that it is becoming less and less likely that anything at all will
happen. We will now, chances are, be left with that concrete wasteland that currently exists for God knows how many more years. So Dovorian of Houghton when you refer to the DTIZ..you still seem to beleive in it. I was an avid
enthusiast for it...but alas alas it has been so long coming that my enthusiasm has all but evaporated. - Roger good luck with that fundraising. In all honesty this initiative
by yourself is one of the most positive marketing schemes Ive seen since Ive come to live here in Dover. It comes just at the right time co-inciding as it does with the new ferry service directly to and from Boulogne and could boost
business here in Dover by attracting a totally new set of visitors...ones that come to stay for a few days. - Roger.........well done, and good luck!!! What a great example to
set us all. - can only echo other comment, well done roger and of course, ld lines.
would be even better if the other lines adopted the same attitude. - Nice pic of my brother Nick and Roger!
Good stuff. - Well done Roger have seen
the leaflet. I for one will be willing to listen should you bring it to the Town Council.
There needs to be to be some working together and I know there are alot of individuals working out there, in some way we need to pull
together.
Look forward to seeing you Roger. - All the best Roger with your future fund raising plans for the English version of your leaflet, an excellent concept
brought to fruition by your hard work and dedication, Well Done. - Me oh my, a blast from the past! I went to school with Nick - this must be the first time I've seen him
since then.
Hi Nick! I hope you're well.
Good luck Roger, and well done :-) - Thanks Guys - very much appreciated.
Jan - I may see you
later this morning at the "Armed Forces Day" and although not an appropriate venue, we may find a window of opportunity to talk about it.
Howard - I am going to try to pursuade the other Ferry companies to do it, that way we
could cover the whole coastal region of the Nord Pas de Calais and this would then widen the benefit. - roger,any chance getting some done in flemish,could drop
of a few on my travels around belguim along with horace. - Marmalade you havent told Nick who you are there in that last post! He might spend a long time guessing. I know who you
are, you know who you are are, but Nick dont know who you are !!lol? - Don't worry, PaulB, dear, I'm emailing him today :-)
LD Lines ticket winner might ring a bell,
though, too. We're looking forward very much to our trip across, doing more for the Dover War Memorial Project. Winning the tickets couldn't have been more welcome or appreciated.
Nick may not know my surname but .. more info
... we used to live across the road and down a bit from him and his family when we were growing up, his cousin lived opposite my cousins who lived next door to me (howzatt!) and ... hmmm ... I have a big bruv often found down at the Town
Council Offices.
- hiya maggie.
- Glad to see so many councillors turned out for Armed Forces Flag Raising Ceremony this morning, Just a shame the Public were not made more a where this was happening.
Some good
pictures though to cover the event. - Hi Max!
What a lovely picture of Sue Nicholas. A Rose between two Rogers. - Again, sadly, we were not made aware of a significant event. Lovely pictures, and it is good to see them, but who was in charge of publicity? If no-one, why not? If someone was, who on
earth was it? - Thanks Paul for making me look good .Did you use an air brush .?
Bern I agree where was the publicity .I did not see the press there .Yes Jan we did have a
grand turn out of councillors still it was for a worthy cause .We owe so much to our Armed Forces .
Even the public who did stop did not hang around .Where was Howard???
Marmalade ,I did make sure i chose two handsome men to be pictured with .You can always count on the Rogers they are my mates- sue,going hatless what
ever next. - Sue I have to say its a lovely picture of you and I really liked it, best one I got and I guarantee this... no airbrush used at all. That's you au
naturelle.
By the way..for the afficionadoes who were helping me out with program advice recently (as Ive changed computers and my old programs wouldnt work on the new computer) all the pictures were processed for the first time
using JASC Paint Shop Pro 7. Many thanks guys and to BarryW-S who gave me the thing a few years back..hey it works!! - susan
i actually went past when all the dignitaries
were outside dressed up to the nines.
i just assumed that they were all awaiting sentencing. - having looked again at that excellent pic from our paul, it
would appear that susan has been well and truly rogered. - shame the Public were not made more a where this was happening. As before the council dont whant us there
incase we ask to many embarassing questions. - It was a good opportunity to pay our respects and thanks to the Armed Forces; Army cadets were there and the Brigadier, the
weather was kind too.
After the speech and the photo-shoot, there was tea/coffee and cakes upstairs for informal chatting/networking and, I am pleased to say, some great artwork by the Dover Grammar School for Girls all around the
Town Council offices upstairs, with a theme of Dover Castle/English Heritage.
I believe it is open all this week, but please check just in case.
Good photos Paul, well
done.
Roger - We are delighted that the service outside Maison Dieu House, to commemorate the armed forces during 'Fly the Flag Week', took
place.
Our youngest daughter has been, and still is, heavily caught up in the conflicts. First in Bosnia, then Iraq and now Afghanistan. We, like many other parents have experienced the agonising waiting after been told that our
precious one is missing (they don't say feared dead). Luckily for us, she and her group made it to safety relatively unscathed.
Albeit, we are very much aware of the unwarrented and horrendous behaviour of certain members of the
media to relatives in order to get a story.
We therefore hope that if people turn out this week and support our armed forces, such hacks will also get the message to do the same. - Great pictures PaulB, so much bling that one would need sunglasses, as said by all where was the publicity? Ah well, we've been there many times. Apart from that, the
councillors and assorted mayors look well especially Sue without her hat.
PaulB, I'm glad to hear that the JASC Paint Shop Pro 7 came into its own. - Lorraine, I
didn't realise you had family serving over there. Please accept my good wishes: I do not know how I would cope under those circumstances. You must be proud, though. - Bling-
tastic! Thought it was a P-Diddy convention at first glance...
Word up, D-Unit. - i bet the pawn brokers were rushed off of their feet,
lending it out in the morning and taking it back in the afternoon.
not all of that bling could have come from argos. - I am sure I saw some of it on our
Christmas tree last year.............. - just looking at the pics again, has anyone noticed the one with mike webb looking a bit shifty standing next to the england cricketer,
andrew(freddy) flintoff?
quite a coup, getting him here. - howard, i must agree with you about them looking shifty,a right bunch of dodgy
caracters. - Posted by Paul Boland on this forum:
"As part of the lead up to the first British Armed Forces Day, the Chairman of Dover District Council and the Town Mayor
of Dover are inviting community representatives to a special flag raising ceremony outside Dover Town Council offices at 10.30am on Monday 22 June."
So people reading the forum didn't know......?
- Does anybody know why the Norman Arrow hasn't moved today?
- It hobbled over to Admiralty Pier around 1pm today, but not
sure why though - "LD Lines services to Boulogne and Dieppe are operating a reduced and slighty delayed service, with their next departure to Boulogne at
19.00hrs." - the gentleman in the picture is bob, a colourful local character.
starred in last weeks express.
nice of those policepersons to help him up, he looks
tired. - it looks like engine failure on the sea cat the way it limped across the harbour.
- Thanks Howard
did wonder who he was, at least our bobbies on the beat did it in a friendly fashion.
So He's now a star on Doverforum too. - yes he does seem to turn up at majour
outdoor events. - i thought it best to clarify who it was, just in case readers thought it might have been posh barry reduced to penury by the iniquitous socialists and their
inheritance taxes. - He seems to be the only local resident in the loop as far as events in this town are concerned. Maybe if the event were advertised more people
might bother turning up. - I see the Lord Mayor of Doncaster as reduced all the wards in that City to one Councillor per ward geting rid of a lot of dead wood will are Mayor please
do the same here. - i believe that his worshipful has only ceremonial powers alan.
they would not extend as far as you would like. - This was reported on BBC Breakfast TV Wensday 24th June 2009
- Paul, Dover, if you had read the Dover Express you
would have known about Monday's flag raising ceremony in Biggin Street, because it was reported, in advance, on page two of that newspaper last week under the headline "Honouring our heroes" and a picture of veterans with
flags.
The lack of people in attendance is a result of apathy rather than a failure to promote the event. - No it isn't. Why would I need to buy a paper to see a
local event advertised? Someone is actually paid by us at the council to arrange publicity. That really does mean more than an article in the paper and maybe a mention on a local forum.
- Pah! Someone advertising events in DDC! You are very fuuny.
I lost the plot at a meeting once because there is no co-ordination or planning with regards to events
marketing so I dont see the point in paying someone to do it.
- Bern, how should it be publicised then? DDC employ a press office to get this stuff out through the local
media and publicise events. Then it goes in the paper, people read it, and if they want to they turn up.
How would you like to see it done instead? A personal message from Paul Watkins through your letterbox for every event that
happens? Oh no, because then you'll come on here moaning about it being a waste of taxpayers' cash.
Can't really win either way, can they? - It seems that
there are two "J"s from Dover posting on here now,It will be Interesting to see If we have a convergence of Ideas. - Looks like a middle-class, hand-wringing hippy festival to
me. Is this something else Canterbury have given us, along with the Telly By The Ellie? - a few posters around the town is required, the hellfire
weekend succeeded partly due to this. - Sure, a few posters could be put up, perhaps on the notice board outside Maison Dieu House and in a few shop
windows.
But I think the point still stands. The Express probably sells, what, something in the region of 10,000 papers every week perhaps? And if there are still no people turning up with that kind of coverage I think it says
more about the people than the publicity.
Then again it could just be that the event happened at around 11am when most people, except the "imbibers" of this fair town, are actually at work. Just a thought. - A small part of me, just a small part, hoped those balloons held by Mr. P. might be filled with helium.
- why are all those
hippies in the new pics dressed up in west ham colours?
could be something deeply symbolic. - I agree that many events in Dover are not publicisd as well as
they could be and I have said many times on here what should or could happen, but until someone gets a grip (or perhaps the responsibility), it won't change.
Part of the problem, is that so many people say they don't read the
local papers, don't listen to local radio, they walk around Town with their eyes closed - or open, but just don't see any notices, so how do you get through to them ? Most people are just in too much of a hurry to see
anything.
I'm sure that if you stood in the street and gave out A5 size posters, they's screw them up without reading them and put them in the nearest waste bin (or just throw them away on the floor).
Put up a big re-
usable banner (re-usable for any future events) at both ends of Town - it may not guarantee people will read it, but there's a better chance than many of the
above.
Roger - howard,i think they are trying to get promoted or something.never mind it takes allsorts to make a cultrull
statement. - Could be Aston Villa ?
- Would it be fair to say that people parading around the town in this
way as illustrated in the top shot, and i have other pictures of similar nature, with that sort of odd look would not succeed in promotong cultural awareness but would alienate the very people they are trying to relate to...ie the
townsfolk of Dover. They look like types bussed in from London or somewhere so I cant myself see how this is working. Im saying this as a foreigner myself so I might be misreading the situation, but if anyone has an opinion on this let
us know by all means. - I have always thought it would be a good idea to have a central event advertising point - a hoarding or pillar that the various councils, bodies and
organisations around Dover could share to advertise coming attractions. That way people just need to go to one place to see what's going on. The Market Square would be a good place for it.
I doesn't really help that the Tourist
Information Office is hidden away in an obscure location - a Market Square location would be a much better location. - Yes Paul, when DDC vacate the temporary office
perhaps. - So, Bob from Biggin Street, there seem to be more ways to advertise than a bit in the paper or a personal appeal to each
individual in Dover. Who would have thought it? Some good ideas here, and I hope someone gets the message - get your act together, do Dover justice and let us ALL know what is going on. It is not rocket science and need not cost a
fortune. - phil,the sort of thing you speak of is being worked on as i type this post.all i can is that certain bodys are getting there heads together to work on this
problem. - What an amazing tapestry of colour. Great pictures, it could be Nottinghill in the sixties, you look every inch the 'Hippy chick'
Karol. - Let's hope they do get it together. After all they've taken over the old library and have the building in Castle Street. Is it not possible to
spend a couple of bob on some sort of permanent notice board or devise some sort of thing to let we residents know what is going on? Or, rather like the new goggle box in the square do they consider that it might detract from the sublime
architectural charms of the area? - paul,as i said there is somthing in the pipeline.
- are that thing was up aycliffe 3/4
weeks ago. - paul
whoever took that was standing outside my house. - sorry, just spotted the
name of the snapper.
don't recognise it though. - Wow! Howard..Whats the chances of that, a shot taken right outside your door..well I never.
Ah y'see
Howard them GoogleEarth geezers are up there watching you in Clarendon St! lol!!
I dont known John Mavin myself but he has sent in some pictures before too via Barry W-S. Hello John if you are out there. Always good to hear from
you. Thought this one was very topically interesting.
We are all being Googled! - maybe jm has a guilty secret???
could it be he works for the tax office or tv licensing
authorities?
one cannot be too careful these days.
come on john, come clean, you will feel better for it.
more pics please.
- That is really
scarry who's watching who really seems they want to know our every move. - big brother is watching you watching him etc.are you paranoid
yet. - John here....
It was Clarendon Place - about no. 194 or 196. I was a bit concerned because as he turned in from Belgrave Road he stopped to take his pictures which
would have included my vehicle with the rear doors open - showing some very expensive camera equipment. If this image appears on Google I shall ask them to remove it, as they assure us they will (!) - Howard don't worry, I know John Mavin and he's a lovely guy, not a tax man or anything sinister! Brilliant photographer though - Hi John
lol - I can see the house I was born in. and the pub I grew up in ! I wonder how long before street view in Dover comes online.
- Below is a section of a Press Release in from LD Lines, proving once again that it is never easy operating in the channel, especially if you are a new player.This on a day when their
new route to Dieppe has been scuppered due to poor usage. proving that old maxim once again...use it or lose it......Their vessel Cote d'Albatre lies forlornly on the western wall today>>>>>>>>>
LD LINES BLAST FOR SEAFRANCE
UNIONS "ATTACK" ON BRITISH FLAG SHIPS
LD Lines has issued a scathing response against SeaFrance (CFDT) unions for their latest demonstration against British Flag (Red Ensign) vessels, operating on the recently introduced fast
ferry service between Dover and Boulogne and other LD Lines' cross channel ferry routes.
SeaFrance (CFDT) unions have twice recently, but unsuccessfully, attempted to disrupt tourist and freight traffic travelling to and from the
Port of Boulogne, with demonstrations against the British Flag (Red Ensign) operated vessel, Norman Arrow.
LD Lines' Managing Director, Christophe Santoni, said, "The latest behaviour of SeaFrance (CFDT) unions is totally
irresponsible by claiming the British Flag to be a "Flag of Convenience". This totally discredits the work and representation of the two English unions - RMT and Nautilus - the very unions with whom the salaries of crews of our British
Flag vessels have been negotiated and approved."
French ferry company, LD Lines, has created around 80 jobs on board its newly introduced fast ferry Norman Arrow, with further jobs being created in the ports of Dover and
Boulogne, as the new route has rapidly expanded since opening in February this year with a conventional ferry.
LD Lines has confirmed that any further attempt to disrupt ferry services between Dover and Boulogne, will not remain
unpunished and the company will exercise its right to take legal action against those responsible.
"British customers represent more than 80% of our passengers and we are certain that they and many others who make up the overall
cross channel tourist and freight market, which is also around 80% - 20% UK to France traffic, will have their own opinions of the SeaFrance (CFDT) unions and their latest anti British Flag attempted action. These are the very customers
who will ultimately choose with whom they prefer to cross the channel."
- The final paragraph in the previous post is quite interesting..it is of course part of the LD Lines
press release, but only 20% of the traffic on the channel (French or other countries) is coming this way. Doesnt that statistic alone prove how much we need the European Union. How much we need to be fully fledged members so that we can
always get the best deal for our traders!? - sorry paul, i do not see the connection.
french unions will always behave in the same way, irrespective of the european
union
it is just a case of self interest from them.
- Not the point I was making though Howard, not re the unions. Just thinking about the volume of
traffic heading that way. 80% of the total traffic is us going that way. Apart from the obvious tourist market, most of that traffic will be guys from here trading over there...hence the need for maximum protection for them, maximum
greasing of the commercial wheels if I can put it that way, by fighting their case in the EU parliament. Outside of the EU you wouldnt get anyone at all working for the interests of these
traders. - As an active trade unionist of some 29 years or so I still believe that there is a place for unions and they must be able to look after there membership.
on
the advertising
I havnt read express for over 2 years so to advertise events in threre i wouldnt see them and i know indy cllr j morgan is same so its not a political fing
the council can use all the bus shelters, why dont
they?
there are a number of notice boards around the town/wards
why dont they get used?
lots of lost opportunities - Wouldn't it be nice if the harbour beach was cleaned at least once a year. I guess that
would cost money so I can see why they leave the tide to clear the detritus but it's not on really.
I'm forever picking up rubbish on the beach and the only cleaners I ever see seem to spend their time emptying the waste bins on the
promenade. - The deterioration in the cleanliness of the beach and pier since DHB got rid of their own cleaners is evident for all to see, as is the poor state of repair of the area
in general, the people of Dover deserve better, I imagine things will only get worse under the current regime at Harbour House. - They clean the beach in Boulogne every day. And
we're trying to get the powers-that-be to clean our beach once a year! What the hell is wrong with this bloody country? - lazy,cant be botherd,need i
carry on.paulb,as for the seafrance/ld lines saga i cant see a problem there,you travel with wot ever company does the best deal on the day.if you are traverling futher than boulonge/calias/dieppe.for instance if you are traverling to
belguim/holland/germany you dont go boulige/dieppe way do you,you go to calias/dunkirk as that is the shortist drivig route.if you going to paris/somme/normandy you would go boulinge/dieppe
way. - paul
laws are passed in the european parliament, countries pick and choose what they will implement.
the fishermans blockade and the events of the last few
weeks at french ports have all been illegal - The fact that there is only around 20% originating traffic from France shows that we have a lot of work to do here,
promoting Dover - not impossible of course, but it does show a certain commitment is necessary.
The SeaFrance unions are in danger of shooting themselves in the foot, because it they continue to cause disruption, it may well
contribute further to or hasten S/F's demise and then they'll be out of a job and not welcome at LD Lines.
Who said our beach is the second worst in the Country ? I understand we had blue-flag status, but DHB hadn't applied for
the status - at that time, but that they have now.
If what you are saying is true about the beach, is it due to sewerage, litter or something else ?
Roger - Looking at the pictures of the Rodin reminds me I must put in my order of facemasks before all stocks run out. I wouldn't like to
imagine the damage that stuff will do to my lungs. Also what about the famous white cliffs, with all the emissions wafting towards them on a daily basis they will probably be stained black over a period of time. - Roger the story about the beach was published in the East Kent Mercury a week or so ago and can still be found on their website. The worst beach was the one at Blackpool. At least we
didnt come top in that particular poll. I dont think its that bad though, always thought it was rather a cosy little beach. But clearly not so, the general public dont thinkso. There is no question of sewage or anything like that, not at
all, heavens no....its just the least favourite or ermmm almost.
Barry WS forget the facemasks, although I dont blame you being tempted. But that rather famous afficionado of the facemask kicked the bucket a day or two ago..years
earlier than he should have. Thats what facemasks did for him! - the bathing water is high quality.
the channel swimmers train there, they should
know.
must be the litter. - Yes indeed Howard you are correct. The water is of high quality but the beach itself is spoiled by people leaving rubbish every
time they go onto the beach. I would love to see these peoples homes - they must be waist high in rubbish if what they leave is anything to go by.
Like I say the only time that the contractors are seen cleaning the rubbish is every
year come the regatta. That's when they make a big show to demonstrate how "green" they are.
Then it's back to as per normal. ie. let the tide take the litter away.
I want a job there how do I apply? Seems like a cushy old
number to me. - paulb,i would have thought they have taken on board gord browns infamos words,you know the one british jobs etc,by the sounds of it they changed the wording to
suit them. - the p and o ferries are just as bad along with the old seacats out the old hoverport.
- funny you should
raise the subject of the seacat max.
i once opined that the speedferry catamaran made more smoke than some of the ferries.
they must have been monitoring the forum and sent me a stinking e mail threatening all
sorts. - i could belive they would howard.
- This site seems to becoming LD Lines official PR tool. Roger
you should be a little more impartial particulary as you have previously stated that you have asked SeaFrance to contribute to another leaflet you are producing - maybe it is because ld lines are playing ball with us, the others seem less enthusiastic.
incidentally, not a very good user name there. - C.B. - I'm as impartial as I see fit.
I've had some positive feedback from both SeaFrance and P. & O. regarding the
"Discover Dover" leaflet; I don't have anything negative to say about any of them.
SeaFrance as a Ferry company has always been good as far as I am aware, but they need to get a grip on their union; I'm not biased against any
of the Ferry companies.
I do think there is more they could do to promote Dover, which in turn, would increase their customer numbers and benefit them greatly too.
I would like to concur with Howard that your username
implies a certain "attitude"; if you have anything to say about the Council or Councillors, please do tell: I don't like the word "back-hander" at all.
Roger
- I think LD Lines get a lot of coverage because they are new and trying new routes with new craft. Re opening the route to Boulogne was and is a very popular
idea so let's hope lots of people use it. Sadly the Dieppe effort has failed due to low passenger levels. As Roger said we have nothing at all against Seafrance, P&O, and Norfolkline.
Though it must be said criticism is more
valid if the person puts there name to it. I agree with the other guys the name chosen is unfortunate. - Why do you not like the word Back-Hander Applys to most of the council
you know it and so do many in this town, dose the truth Hurt. or are we guilty, i remember when the old post office was knocked down builder was fined then council gave them back the Money people have long memories in this town and some
of us have the Evidence. so if you whant to start nameing and shaming bring it on. - LD Lines just happen to be a very proactive and forward-looking company, sailing into a
very forward-looking and proactive town (Boulogne, that is). And good for them. It's called competition. - Just wanted to pass on my
reccomendations for a little coffe shop i used in Dover the other day called Mandys. The food is fresh and tasty, good value for money and the welcome is always happy.
Give it a go, Mandy is a local girl who needs all our support,
try you wont be dissapointed. Its in Bench Street. - Like the sound of that - Good luck to Mandy. Bench Street is on the up a bit - at long last.
Shame about the
Townwall Street end and the grotty underpass. - That part of the beach, I believe, is supposed to be cleaned by the local council. Perhaps they
peruse these pages and were panicked into sending somebody up there for show.
As for the rest of the beach all the way along to the Prince of Wales pier, having just walked up there this evening I did feel somewhat depressed. Frankly
it is filthy. Litter everywhere. It is impossible to walk more than two yards and come across the usual detritus waiting for the next tide to take it out and make it someone elses problem.
Awful, quite awful.
Maybe someone needs
to apply for charitable status in order to pay someone to clean these beaches. - i remember speaking to nigel collor some years back now.
he had run a check on responsibility
for the beach.
dhb , ddc and the environemnt agency all have a section each.
i might be wrong, but the bit between the bogs on the prom and the eastern docks belong to the environment agency. - Yes,I agree Jasper I have throughly enjoyed my meals In there, a real hidden Gem is "Mandys".The bacon and chicken jacket potato was
sublime - thank you whoever posted the information in my door on monday. Noted.
- Paul yes indeed you are right.
People do indeed peruse these pages, you need look no further than the immediate input from Seafrance above.
That sounds very intriguing David H....like an episode from a John Le Carre novel, but guys isnt the cold war over, or is
there something else afoot....assignations in the dead of night!? - It's great to see that SeaFrance sponsors the Marine Conservation Society and fair play to them for doing
so, but there is no mention of the emmissions coming from the Rodin or have I missed something. - as a reguler user of seafrance i have known about it for the last couple
of years. - I don't see what Seafrance has to do with cleaning the beaches. I don't recall anybody blaming them for the state of our beaches. Rather it is members of the public
who leave litter after their visit. As far as I'm aware there are strict rules regarding ferries and ships that use the harbour in terms of waste and other related issues and as I understand it they stick to the rules to the letter
which is a good thing.
The problem we have is in my humble opinion is tackling the waste on the beach left by those who really do not care about their surroundings. Signage, more bins and a better system of daily clearance, especially
in the evening might make things a little better.
Personally I don't hold out much hope of any change in the short term. It's not exactly a priority item in some peoples minds. - maybe if the larger firms issued statements about their activities instead of just monitoring forums, they would get more respect and trust.
pb is right in noting that they have not answered the criticism made. - It's great to see that SeaFrance sponsors the Marine Conservation Society. And how do thay get it thay had a £1.00 charge to every booking so its not them its us thats
paying for it. - Howard - I work in PR and marketing (hence my discussions with Roger on the Dover leaflet) and have some contacts within the ferry industry. These larger
firms frequently issue press statements about their activities but generally to larger media organisations. I believe that what happens in the case of the Doverforum is that LD Lines probably send releases directly to Paul B. Maybe the
doverforum could contact some of larger firms within this area and request to be on their circulation list. - Yes we are now on the Seafrance list. I have over recent times
contacted a number of firms, groups, etc but of course due to workload and low manpower its not possible to cover every eventuality. If only...
I did make reference to this directly below the Seafrance input above. I was aware
that Seafrance should have their say on the press release so didnt use it in the editorial but in the comments where in fact LD Lines could have put it on themselves. But the theory is fine but getting round to everything Im afraid is
just not possible as we dont have the resources of say a local newspaper.
Some people on the other hand will NOT send me press releases because I have the word Forum in the title. The Police for example...so there we
are. - We went to Calais on tuesday as foot passengers on the splendid Rodin and had a very comfortable trip there and back for a mere £6 per person return, now thats what I call
cheap as chips, my only complaint being, the coffee was too weak but hey! I can live with that.Also footsies board first so you get the best seats with a super view.
Still the spewing forth of those ungodly emmissions on our Dover
seafront are indeed very disturbing and a huge black cloud on our landscape in more ways than one. - Just reading the bits about photos for the papers.. ta
Paul et Paul, flipping papers never even credit me for my photos and yet again there is one on them...
Payment would be nice but acknowledgement would be far better...
- Yes that is a tad annoying when they don't acknowledge them, but that is a 'risk' I can cope with but without asking beforehand.... grrr......
PaulB - I think it is getting beyond
a joke now with DE ! - About 20 words out of, what, 400? Not really the entire contents is it?
Mind you, someone far more clever than myself once said imitation is the
sincerest form of flattery! Maybe that's the best way to look at it? - Flattery be blowed - it was unprofessional and lazy, and very discourteous.
It also gave the impression that actual work was done, and that cannot have been by accident. Local press is intellectually limited and clearly plagiarises. What more is there to say? - Re Your Dover and the feature on the rubbish and wheelie bins, Marijka emailed to ask if she could use my picture that I put on the Forum. I duly consented and sent her a copy but declined a credit for personal
reasons. - Flattery my ass....
Okay it might be a small piece, but a section of a feature was reproduced without permission or credit or acknowledgment. This was
used in the highly commercial Dubris. They all make money out of it!! The days are gone when we all used to rollover with glee because a newspaper used a piece of our stuff. - Once again the DE 'borrow' editorial clearly from Doverforum, but to use it in this manner is beyond a joke and clearly unprofessional. PaulB has let it 'go' on other occassions but now is the time to draw the line once and
for all. - What a bloody cheek! Paid journalists using unpaid journalists work 'word for word' without so much as an ask or accreditation. Enough is
Enough! - Temporary Error.
- Paul
I understand your frustrations, I really do, but the
truth is that journalism at a local level is lazy at best. Despite Roger Walkden's comment about not seeing quotes lifted from other forums very often, it has happened recently when stuff has been lifted from Dover Locals and appeared
verbatim in Dubris (or is it Debris?!), but my overall feeling is that pragmatism has to be the watchword here: one lives in the knowledge that the local press are pushed by staffing and budgetary constraints and still have to fill their
pages with local stuff.
With the odd release that I do for the Dover War Memorial Project, I know that if you don't accept that anything published will be lifted exactly as the press release was issued, it won't get in the
papers at all - reporters simply don't have the time to research and interview as they once did. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the Dover Express, I'm merely saying that local forums are an easy way of any reporter finding
local gossip quickly enough to fill columns such as Dubris.
I think that the criticism that PB is being 'precious' about DF is grossly unfair, an unworthy comment, and I'm sure that if the tables were turned, the poster who
made that comment wouldn't feel the subject to be quite as black and white; protecting intellectual copyright is not being sniffy, it's about letting people know where proper boundaries should be defined. Living in this grotty world
of ours, though, this form of silliness will inevitably happen and I'm afraid that it's something we may all have to live with. - Thanks Andy...but
for the moment best not to put anything too weighty on here as Ive had a serious technical mishap which may or may not be retrievable. This is just a temp page. Panicking. - We
have had to switch the Comments off for the time being as there is a technical problem (of my own making alas) with the Open Pages. The Members Club is still fully
functional. - There we are ..up and running again for comments. We have lost 24 hours worth of worthy postings that we were not able to restore, and 1,000 hits off
the counter top right, which is a shame, but was glad that we were able to fix it all and bring it back. We obviously lost too any potential posts while we were switched off. My thanks as ever to technical guru Chris Tutthill for his
sterling work after my bigtime clanger! Saved the day did Chris...again!
We have been out at the weekends events and have plenty of pictures..but off out again fairly shortly to do some more on the spot stuff..will get more
pictures up on show in due course. - Heya guys!
Was really nice to see a lot of yesterday if it was only for a few mins! I know I didnt get any of you
guys.. but if you want to have a quick look trhough.. then please do!
you will need to add the world wide web bit at the front but otherwise...
.facebook.com/album.php?aid=92293&id=501016526&l=285deecc74
I am
shattered, and I am off out taking more photos today! But I had a great time and the Ramada looked after us soo well and the crowds were all out and cheering Hayley on.
We did also sing Happy Birthday to Mandie outside the town
hall! - i see we had a rare vister in pencester then,none other than our maggie.nice to see her alive and
kicking. - Good pictures from the weekend - well done Paul; nice to see you in front of the camera for a change.
We missed the paper Boat Race for the first time in years; I
had to do my good deed for the day working in Jean's Mum's garden and it took me longer than I thought it would, then up to the tip with 8 bags of garden refuse.
A lovely day for it - as Paul said, we have been blessed
(weather-wise) for the last few events.
One of the people I send round emails to, emailed me to say thanks for letting her know about the Paper Boat Race, as her daughter had won a prize, so it's good to know they are read - and
useful too.
The Horticultural and Pet show looked good too, lots of happy people with their pets and when we were there, there were happy dogs being put through their paces.
Another great day and well done to the
organisers, helpers and supporters.
Roger - There you go, Paul. There was I, catching forty winks, and you in my dreams again .... ;
-) - Some really great coverage of the weekends Events in pencester, our own loacl park, good to see everyone out enjoying it and some great
picture's to.
PS thanks for the dance in the park Roger. - It's a pleasure Jan, it really was.
Lots of silly nonsense spam there Paul, how can you eradicate it
?
Roger - Thanks guys..I nearly missed Maggie in there amongst the Spam...yes really like those pictures myself. We always focus on the people
at the events rather than anything else thats where our 'social' tag comes from. But very colourful events on this weekend in Pencester. Really great for everyone, and totally FREE to everybody. Well done to all the organisers...the
London Road Community Forum did the Boat race, Priory Forum(led by Sheila Amos) did saturdays Funday.
Great to see the kids yesterday at the Boat Race enjoying themselves... daughter Briony used to love that little event when she
was smaller. Good to see it on the same day as the Horticultural Show as it gave added life to it.
We will also have pictures of the Carnival in a few days and DavidH's party. There were even other things on in Dover this weekend
so it was an action packed town. We couldnt get pictures of everything.
With regard to the Spam. Yes its beginning to cause problems and Im not sure if we can do anything about it because this page is "open". Many of you will
remember we had a nice letters page running one time but it was completely destroyed by 'foreign bodies' and we had to close it. I will leave the spam there now for the moment til we can look at a way to stop it if possible. It does
spoil peoples enjoyment. Very sad. - It's a rotten shame about the spam, and it seems to be getting worse. Perhaps spam attracts spam.. . ?
As a thought, would having
one of those captcha things before submission be a help? - Great photos that show Dover at it's best, shame about the bare chested man wth the Staff on a chain
in the background of one of them! - What a fabulous action packed weekend and it was lovely to take photos of so many smiling faces with everyone enjoying themselves, a huge well
done to all involved. - not unless you have egg and chips with your spam.
- Oh good grief, max!!
That was truly groanful!! .... -D :-D
- Nice to here that Maggie & Simon are back in town have a great stay hope you are both well Love
Alan. - marmalade,egg and chips with backed beans just for you.
- Thanks, max dear! (marmalade, egg, and chips - what a
combination! Does it beat ketchup, I wonder?).
A flying visit, Alan (hugs!!), but life is bucking up, and your girl is much brighter these days. She came with us. It was just great to be back in Dover again, and very hard to have
to leave. x x - Im realy pleased she is a lot brighter, am still trying to win lotery so I can send you all on a world trip so she can try all the ciders of
the world, but not the chocs. love to all alan. - hello Jenni.
I'am coming in this site from Haley's site whith her progeria.
I'am wonderd how she is ,so you write you
have seen her 6 july and you had photo,s i was coming in here at you're site but I don,t know yet how she is , can you tel me??
Greats from holland - Hi Karin, Hayley is doing very well, and had fun when she came to Dover.
regards Mandie - Well golly and gosh and all those wide eyed sentiments..Ive just
realised this page is one year old today. We rushed it out following the demise of our Letters Page which seems much longer than a year ago but I find to my surprise its not. This page has had over 202,000 views in that period which isnt
bad at all for a makeshift page that was sort of rushed into frontline use. We improved its usage as we went along and I think people like it.
We have covered allsorts of stories wth lots of pictures showing the goings on in and
around the town....all done on a voluntary basis and its all free! - Happy birthday to Open Page!
Hayley looked a treat when we saw her, and was smiling fit
to burst - great! :-) - Happy Birthday open page and a big thank you to Paulb for letting us sound off long may she reign the site that is.
- Thanks Guys, it feels like a long time ago the ould Letters Page went but only a year..Maggie have a nice picture of Hayley coming later today, and a brace of Carnival shots mostly
taken by ColetteB who was on the money last weekend. I couldnt keep up! - NO! That photo of me is awful! God I always look awful in photos..!
Look at those beautiful
girlies... they all look lovely!
- I can help a bit. The girl with Hayley our honorary princess 2009 is the English European Princess natalie Archibald.
Next pic down
is Dover Rosebud Faith
Then we have the Teynham princesses with sandwich Rosebud, and the Court of Swale in Blue.
next pic is Miss Dover Loren, with senior proncesses Sofie & Sofia
and then below that we have Miss Folkestone
Leah Gorman and her court, and the girl with Saskia is Court of Kent Queen jade Barrett. I think we know everyone else.
Hope that helps, luv Mand xxx
- Good selection
of carnival pictures, lovely to see Hayley there hope they raised plenty to go into the fund.
Bernard seems as though he was enjoying himself a pretty girl on each side.
Thanks david and linda for an enjoyable afternoon too.
- Sutton.. I am a Sutton soon to be a Forber ...
I was about to tell you the other folks, but Mandie has got in before me! LOL!
- Ah thanks Jenn
...disappointing to see no comments at all on the Carnival pictures. We have comments from Mandie and Jenn but they run the Carnival itself
and one comment from Jan T who was with me when I took most of the pictures. But no neutral observations at all. Are people not interested...?
Its a big job getting these pictures and even worse producing them for the web, perhaps
doing just one or two pictures is the way to go, would certainly be easier on the workload as it takes a huge huge amount of time.
I said before I wasnt going to do huge amounts of pictures anymore but here I am doing them again.
I always feel people out there will be let down if we dont do it ...but maybe not.
I have one other spread to do of David H's Party so after that it will be just a case of two or
three. - Interesting comment Paul however did you get any shots of floats ?With due respect we have seen Carnival Queens and our Chairman and Mayor many times .My
father was a milkman and on carnival day he would finish his round then decorate his van .I too used to go carnival floats when I was a GPO telephonist .One year we had a huge space rocket on a trailer and we girls adorned it wearing
short and I mean short skirts with matching capes .I had legs in those days . - Thanks for that comment Sue..yes interesting...have had some floats but they dont really
reproduce all that well I feel. We always do faces on here which is our traditional remit kind of thing, as I always feel the people taking part will like to see themselves and so forth and readers will like to see the glamour. When you
reduce the size of a float down to the reproducing size on here, you dont see all that much of the people on it.
I wanted to do a 'social' magazine about people when I started this editorial section, couldnt compete with
newspaper type coverage..but...Im not entirely sure anymore. - What lovely photos, everyone looks like they really enjoyed themselves.
- Yes, a nice selection of Carnival photos there, I particulary love the fluffy pink and white dresses of Folkestone, very girlie, you are right on the button PaulB, us girls love
this stuff, must be that wedding thingy! - Well yes its a girly thing so I havent got much of a clue if its whats what etc. Somebody put up a posting a
bit earlier using my name saying I was ego mad or something because I was seeking feedback in posts below. If you have something to say its okay, you dont have to hide and pretend to be me. Yes my ego must be mad to do this in the first
place !lol
By the way everyone's IP Address is recorded. - Paulb
I for one am very happy to see the pictures, as one that works 10 hour shifts i
can't aways get to events so im realy pleased at your unbiased reports/pics.
Also you do pics/stories and not in interewst of profits!!!!!
big diffrence to others that report events
So from me Paulb
ITS A BIG
THANKYOU
AND LONG MAY IT CONTINUE - Nice Pix Paul - couldn't do better myself. Lol!
I would just like to send my thanks to The Cinque Ports Arms who very kindly
gave me a lift on their float after they found out I was on crutches, but still wanted to take part in the carnival as I had promised Mandie I would.
I had lots of fun, and I look forward to taking part in the Publicans' Walk
with you as promised (as soon as the ankle is better!) - I’m afraid we missed your carnival, so it’s nice to catch up with some lovely photos on here, looks
and sounds like we missed great event, weather looked great as well. Hope to see all the Courts, Carnival Queens, Princesses and Rosebuds at our Kent Miners Festival in August.
- good to hear from you gary, you used to be a regular on the members page.
have you had a change of heart and decided to leave our miner alone? - Certainly not Howard, been very busy with moving the statue, planning gone in and waiting to hear, I have also been very busy organizing the Kent Miners Festival, this will
be a big Community Event and we are hoping you will all come along and make this an annual get together. Also just got back from Ireland, lifetime ambition fulfilled and enjoyed every bit of it.
- Sorry PaulB - they are good pictures and plenty of them which is good, especially for people who were unable to see the Carnival.
A great day on Saturday
all round.
Roger - paulb,have you got any photos of the rest of the carnival.as the ones you have posted sugests that there was only 1 or 2
floats with carnival queens on.if not has any one got more pictures to put on as it be more intresting to look at.many thanks. - Thanks for the feedback guys...always very
interesting. I have taken onboard what was said, but we have to leave the carnival behind now shortly though as space on the frontpage is always needed. Later today will have story and pictures of the unveiling of the Sandy Bruce-
Lockhart plaque at Dover Castle yesterday....so watch for those. - Worth noting this re carnival etc. When I said this page was one year old on the 7 july it had
just over 202,000 viewing figures (check posts below). Its two days later now and the page viewing figures as I write stand at 204,500...so many viewers in past two days. Good to see that. We will try to bring a variety of stories and
events as ever.
Carnival pix have just come down and Dover Castle feature coming up. - Very nice pictures ,however it would be good if councillors knew what
was going on .We have a weekly newsletter but these grand occasions are never brought to our attention .You only see the newsletter if you look it up on a screen . - Thats the express logging on so often to make sure they don't miss any stories Paul,I was quoted this week.
- The afternoon at Dover Castle yesterday was most interesting
and as Paul has said not all is pipedreams.
It seems from yesterdays conversations that alot is happening within our Castle.
And I'm sure like everyone we are keen to know, as the castle itself is one of Dover's main gems and an
important historical feature of our Town.
So thank you Paul for escorting me and giving such a full report of the afternoons event. - I was at a meeting last night
when we had a presentation on the progress of Dovers regeneration.I agree things are being done at the Castle however as I pointed out the cost for a visit can be too costly for the averasge Dover family .Where ever you go now it is
added on costs .
Its time Dover people were given a few concessions .Visits to the Musuem are free to Dover residents . - Absolutely! I love the castle but it is too
expensive for regular visits, especially if all 4 children want to come as well, which is kind of the point! Even though they are teenagers they still want to do family things, thank
goodness! - Sir Sandy was a good friend of Dover and supported many of our projects; a well deserved honour.
Join Friends of Dover Castle and you get discounted entry and
it only costs about £12/£13 per year. Great value if you are or want to be, a regular visitor there.
Roger - Yes we are lucky to have such a
wonderful castle. Indeed Dover is a great town with so many treasures, it is just not promoted.
To visit the castle need not be as expensive as some prominent people of Dover seem to think
The Friends of Dover Castle was
formed 26 years ago for the people of Dover to enjoy THEIR castle.
It is non-profit making and all monies are spent on specific projects at the castle.
Annual Membership is at approx one and a half times the normal
admission charge and permits members to visit the castle as many times as they wish at normal opening times. Additionally special visits for members are organised.
Full details and membership application forms are available on the
Friends website www.dover-castle-friends.org
Pat Sherratt
Chairman
Friends of Dover Castle - excellent pictures there, good to
hear that english heritage are trying to link up with the town a bit more than they have.
friends of dover castle is just under 15 quid a year at present.
there are family deals available.
the admission charge is,
in my opinion, cheap for such a tourist trap.
there are always new events happening and new works being carried out.
every school holiday including half term, events are held suitable for children.
they have a new land train
this year that takes visitors around the castle grounds. - www.dover-castle-friends.org of course !
- Members of English Heritage get in for free - www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.895 for membership fees
- Thanks to all for information re cost to Castle
.This Friends of Dover Castle is not promoted enough .I understand A family membership then is £30 ,70pence .I do wonder which events you cannot visit ?? - susan
i am sure that a family ticket(2 adults and 3 children) is 25 quid.
will go up soon as the admission charges are rising.
there are no events that you cannot visit, just occassionally, you may have to
pay a small amount to get in. i cannot remember the last time that happened.
just as an example of extra freebies, last july we had all 4 weekends devoted to falconry exhibitions through the ages.
everyone that was there
was entertained and educated on the great skills involved.
off of the top of my head, the admiralty lookout has been renovated, the keep is undergoing major changes and the new visitors centre is being built.
i am hoping
that the officers mess will be next.
do not forget that there are many picnic areas, ideal for families that would be hard pressed to pay for food and drinks out. - Couldn't put it better myself Howard !!
Well worth the money, not only are there the official EH events, there are also occasional Friends visits too.
I think the Mess is a couple of years away but was last
planned to be an archaeological store and archive. A great building :) - Thanks Sue
Friends of Dover Castle have taken various advertising (Dover Life etc)
but little response.
As a non-profit organisation with little to spend on advetising (our objective is funds for small projects at the castle) have asked for editorial story to local papers that have so far been ignored. Hence why
this oportunity taken on the Forum which seems very open to a wider audience than I had hoped. I begin to wonder why we need a local newspaper that seldom reports items that the people of Dover need to know.
Current membership
(rates will increase from 1st August):
Individual £15.45
Joint £26.00
Family £30.70
Junior £7.80
Senior Citizen £12.00
English Heritage Members can also join the Friends and enjoy the added benefits
for £6
- that last picture looksd like our keef in a nice suit
surely not lol - Thanks Pat, the
information is welcome, and we will be joining. I share your views about the local paper press - poor quality journalism with limited local focus despite some almost accidental
positives.
- Whats this..our Keef in a nice suit! I didnt know our Keef was the possessor of a suit..nice or otherwise !!lol. But no, seriously Keef that's a pleasant chap
called Simon Thurley and as mentioned in the captions above is the Chief Executive of English Heritage. I think Ive got that right anyway. - keith always wore a
smart whistle with a shirt and tie for council meetings.
nowadays the job demands are different, a truncheon and a whistle are de rigeur. - You didn't attend
many Council meetings then Howard !
Roger - ROGER
Wot does that comment mean? - maybe roger was suggesting that your district council garb was not as formal as your county council attire keith?
- i think that the cable car is a goer, a
lot of health and safety stuff coupled with expensive reports and feasibility studies before it comes to fruition though.
it will be a laughing stock, like anything new in dover, up until it happens, of course.
our fuhrer
explained things on the members page a few days ago.
just as an aside a while back i was weeding my front garden, when an old lady came past, she stopped to draw breath and then said,"i don't know about a cable car, a
stannah stair lift would be more useful up this hill".
that really cracked me up. - Sorry Keith, it was a joke - it just made me laugh when I thought of
it.
Hope you weren't offended, no malice intended.
Roger - Recent comments by a certain person about DDC are I feel inappropriate. I have always
found the staff to be pleasant and helpful. DDC are far better than many Councils including the one I worked for.
Local Councillors actually do something. - Some good picture's of Davids party, was an enjoyable way to spend an afternoon as always.
plenty of liquid refreshments to keep everyone going
LOL!!!!!
- strange post from g hopkins there.
who was the person and what where the comments deemed as inappropriate.? - great pics, especially liked the one at the bottom with barry and nigel.
looks like a protection gang coming to collect.
barry is trying to say that he is the
nice one, but if he is messed about the, one with the shades will do what is necessary. - Yes, was a very enjoyable Carnival party. Good to see so many people in the
garden of No. 41 Castle Street - was certainly standing room only. This was the second year that David has managed to book the band and hopefully they can make our party next year! Really adds to the atmosphere.
- wheres my shades,by god those shirts are bright.
- Always enjoy this annual event at Big Dave's to celebrate the
Carnival, long may they both continue, looking forward to the next one! Thanks David and Linda for another splendid get-together and to Mandie & Co for a great
Carnival. - Good photos Paul.
Yes it was a very enjoyable party and a great way to meet up with friends.
Linda and David are great hosts and
the Band played some great folk music.
How's your foot Alison ? doing cartwheels again yet ?
Howard, I think the G Hopkins comment was about the posting made a while back (I think it was Alan) about the useless DDC and
everyone's on the make (at least I'm assuming that).
Alan didn't have anything to back up his comment so it was dropped - shouldn't have been said in the first place of course.
Welcome G Hopkins by the
way.
Roger - Where did they get those shirts ??
- Roger, glad you like
my photos and I must say PaulB what a stirling effort you've put in over the last few weeks on this home page, covering so many of the recent events in Dover and bringing them to the people. Well Done You.
Sue, The shirts, a
question on all our lips! - We have been fortunate in that there has been a whole brace of terrific things to do in Dover recently and we were able to
bring coverage of most. Sometimes ones the newspapers didnt cover either which was good, which at the very least gave us an added dimension.
Interesting one coming later today too or maybe possibly more like tomorrow morning...so
watch for that. In the meantime dont get too dazzled by the shirts. Is there a market stall somewhere flogging these off cheap!?!lol But its not an entirely new phenomenon...Im sure I remember a picture from a party about two years ago
with four such shockers lined up at one time!!..I'll see if I can find it.. - Now those shirts from 2007 are certainly the business, WOW! That was a great do, Mary's leaving
party, was it really that long ago? time is flying by!!!!!! - Is Dover moveing forward and are we being told a pack of lies these are some of the things
that we were told.
"Demolition Work Begins" opened September 08
"Burlington House Is Coming Down" opened December 07
Work Set To Begin On ..... opened January 08
all reported quite well.... and yet... all a
phallacy!
it was reported in the Mercury in December 07, that in February 08 Burlington House would be started on, and the subsequent projects for that area.... were the Mercury lying to us? Did DDC lie to the Mercury? Was the
Asda plan a lie just to stop all of us moaning that nothing new or positive comes to the town? The DTIZ.... a lie? What about the LDF.... i haven't seen anything happen at Whitfield yet either... another lie?
be nice to hear from
Messrs Collor or Watkins regarding the lack of activity in any of these plans for Dover. - Great photos (I'll take my sunglasses off now!) Looks like you all had a good time.
Hope your leg is on the mend soon Alison. - Shame you can't do anything about these spam emails
Paul.
Roger - You will always get some sicko Roger, spoiling it for everyone else.
Sheila - must be learning to use the keypad, pity you are not learning the art of conversation, never ming it is the likes of you that will s*** out in the long run
Sheila - Roger and Sheila apologies, and to Alan and Jeane on the previous page and to everyone else...as it stands at the moment we seem to be losing the battle. We have been trying. I
think we might have to accept defeat that keeping a page totally "open" is just not going to work. For the moment Im stuck and not sure what to do next.
I deleted a further amount of it too before I switched off last night so it
is relentless. - Hi all
the spam emails are certainly auto generated - once they have the input sequence it will send random messages with rubbish content. The only way to
stop this is to add a unique record into the sequence. e.g before the message is finally posted a randomly generated password is displayed which the user must retype. Check out the post office website for postcode searches - this is an
excellent example. Hope this helps - I know this problem only too well. To solve it, I made a little program that generates random codes that you
have to type in. Fixed it immediately. - Yes thanks guys , yes that could be the next route. Was trying to not do the code thing, but if this latest adjustment just made doesnt
work then we will do that. - Wow !!!
Roger - There is little to add to those
figures! I see your WoW Roger, and raise you a Blimey!! - Wow here i go again.
On the issue of the mayor, iv never been a fan ogf the set up of the mayor.
It is very very
costly and we get little from it as has been indicated from the results above.
That said though it may be time to look at once again(not my first posting on this)
how many councils we have, how mANY CLLRS we have and couldnt we
do more to be cost effective.
lets look closer into this;
At prresent we have as indicated above the town council
so just in priory/e vale maxton ward we have 4 town cllrs we see 2 of them but 2 iv never seen in
the ward.
Then we have the District council wiyth another 3 cllrs and each able to claim allowances plus all the officers earning wages like monopoly money, can wages of ovrer £100,000 and some close to £100,000 be justified
when you look at Dover District?
bet it costs a fortune to run District as well wasnt there budget over £15m or higher
Then theres the county council where we have another 2 cllrs claiming over £12,000 each i dont say
this is wrong, but when you take that and officers earning over £100,000 and lots on close to this figure.
And I understand KCC has a budget of £2billion!!!
Maybe we should look closer, do we need 3 councils? I dont think
so.
I'm a great believer in decisions being made at the most local level so thats probably the town council, but they need to prove they are capable.
KCC is. and always has been to remote from Dover so maybe thats the one to be
scrapped and these powers given to Disrict/town?
Or maybe the District looking to go in with other East Kent councils
im not a great believer in this one.
This has happened in other parts of the country and towns got
forgotten, swallowed up by the bigger places.
So we havre some ideas, and a need to to cost cut
whos brave wenough to do it
dont expect the councils themselves to - if you are going to throw numbers about at least check they are accurate and comparable - looks like in this instance they are not at all . the numbers above can be seen to be unrelated.
there is no need to use freedom of
information act to get information as all figures are published. It is obviously a biased and ill researched piece of reporting not unusual of course.How would DTC spend £475k compared to Folkestones £103K on the Mayorality. Please
be careful Paul about publishing unchecked data. I shall reply to any personal e-mails on this subject and research a repy - this is not an official reply . The Mayors fund is not related to what the Mayor does in the town in any
context and if Folkestone had a large result in that then show why.
D
- Paulb, going back to spam, you could have check code added to site. This
does inconvenience genuine comments from humans, who will have to enter a code, but it will stop auto spam. - Thanks Gary..will take on board all
suggestions.
David well this is the web so the chap concerned PG Sherratt could have simply just published his findings here in the comments section. Its a free and open voice. As it is we have used it in the editorial and much as
we did last week with Seafrance ,we have asked in the editorial above, in the interests of fairness, for the Town Council to respond officially . Which seems fair enough. Again as its the web thats the only way we can do it as we dont
have a team of reporters and researchers at our disposal. - I can only repeat Whow Blimey .Puts our DDC chairmans budget in the shade .
- David H
I am confused by your answer. The reader, Pat Sherratt, states she received these figures from the councils. Are you saying she has not reported those figures
correctly or are you saying the councils gave incorrect figures?
Also could you explain “The Mayors fund is not related to what the Mayor does in the town, in any context”? Please.
I would like to know why Deals figures were not
presented as well?
PS .I am all for Mayors, so not trying to knock them. I think the issue brought up in this thread is important and needs clearing up.
- Sorry Pat should have said HE/SHE, my appologies.
- David
These are the figures supplied from Dover Town Council.
You say they are
"unrelated" well if Dover Town Council account in a different way to other councils I would ask why!
Yes I could have gone to the Town Council direct for information but by doing so under FOI the council should supply the
information as requested. If there are errors in the figures it is not my error but the figures supplied by DTC, therefore, what other financial errors are occuring??
- Paul
Many thanks for publishing. I had tried to have this published in the Dover Express on three occassions but it never saw the light of day.
I beleive the people of Dover should know the facts, if they are
incorrect then the correct details should be provided together with an explanation.
We have a Mayor and will ,I have no doubt, as the first person of Dover do all in her power to represent Dover. I am not adverse to a Town/City
having a Mayor but costs have to be controlled.
Hi Gary C... Sorry I did not seek details from Deal so put my hands up that I should have
- after the
initial shock 2 questions come to mind.
1) the report does not indicate what responsibilities each council has? can we find out?
2)does the foi act supply councillors attendance figures? - To respond to Gary C's question - The Mayor of Dover's Goodwill Fund is a registered charity where funds raised privately are distributed to local causes and charities
that the committee of trustees deem worthy of largesse. It is entirely separate from anything to do with Dover Town Council - all its functions and Trustees give their time free of charge and there is no recourse to public money. - Another thing to consider is that the Mayor comes under different umberella is different areas - Dover is with the Town Council, Ashford with the
District Council - each account for things in different ways and are not always comparable..... - In this financial climate not they are not worth it, that money could be well
spent elsewhere. Walk up Dover high street you will soon see where it could be spent. If is not on Jollies by the Mayors and the hangers on. - I am all for the Mayors promoting
Dover but the cost's are outrageous!!! it seems day after day all we see are pictures of the mayor and the same old face at some jolly or another all of course on behalf of Dover.
That amount of money needs to be justified and
now!! - I agree Jasper - all that money which could be used to spruce up Dover and Deal is being wasted on bling and fancy-dress.
- I am not a Town Councillor now but I was for 4 years and these numbers do not add up,Dover looks to have quoted for the entire staff and other things while the rest seem to have given
the numbers for just the Mayor.It looks to me as if someone has quoted the figures. - For such Beauty we should pay them more, we Pay more than that for our Queen but never
ask if she is worth it, Jan & Sue bring a real sparkle to this town.We should be asking weather are Council DDC is worth it, but we all know the Ass to that one. - Also to
consider is that from DTC they will have the own support staff which I am sure that all their costs are included in the numbers, however for a Borough/District Council they would only pick up a small proportion of the entire
costs.
Unfortunately I am involved in such calculations like this, and when you write them on the back of a fag packet as below they are in no way comparible. Terrible decisions can and are made when people can't interpret what
they are looking at..... - my thinking is the same as john's here.
mind you, if everything was in the public domain, there would be no need for things to get blown out of
proportion. - If the Mayor costs that much to the Town lets turn the election process into a proper democratic procedure,not just an inaugeration.Lets have an
elected Mayor and give a voice back to the people of this town. - Just another big rip off at our expense. Layer upon layer of
scandal. - Could I suggest that before going much further those who think this is a reasoned argument look at the summary published figures which have been on the DTC
website for many months...
dovertown.co.uk/Article.aspx?ArticleID=853
there obviously is a wind up going on here....
by whom and why? I shall be investigating further and report back.
and Paul I believe (and stand
to be corrected )- because I believe in press freedom and openness, -that indeed one can make any outrageous claims but as an editorial you are aligning yourself with this and should be able to see the nonsense of some of the figures.
a simple check of the DTC website would have thrown up the anomaly!
- In response to Pat Sherratt's missive, the Dover Mayoral cost's need to
be broken down in a like for like comparison with the other council's listed..otherwise it doesnt read as a fair figure.
To take Dover's in isolation in such a way gives completely negative illustration of the Dover Mayor most
probably as it was designed to do.
With regard to the fund raising figures, Dover Town Council have supported many events within the dates listed as sole sponsor or in partnership with DDC, KCC or any other public bodies.
The
Folkstone figure is distorted due to external sources.
In reference to Howards points
1Different councils in different areas take on different levels of responsibilites,This leads to the cost fluctuations.
2The council
attendance figures should be available in the minutes of the various meetings on the DTC website. - Following the debate about local papers and the
forum, and questions about journalism online, I hope these figures were checked by the publishers before being put in the public domain, because it would be embarrassing for Dover Forum to have taken someone's word and got it wrong. I
hope that isn't the case, but if it is, it shows the value of checking facts before publishing.
The Dover figure seems awfully high, I imagine this is because of the request for a figure for staff "attached" to the Mayor, which
could realistically apply to all working for the town council.
One hopes the forum hasn't been taken in by someone with an axe to grind, but if it has a lesson will have been learnt. - Interesting to take a look at that link to the council website David, thanks for posting it. It says Mayoral expenses were 57,105 for the last year, which makes those figures given above
seem a little wide of the mark.
Must say, I was a little shocked at the figure in the editorial from PaulB, didn't seem right at first glance. Will be interesting to see how this story plays out. - jan
interesting post.
not your usual style of prose, did someone write that for you?
- the
figures quoted were from a guest poster.
as far as i can see, the forum header did not agree or disagree with them. - Not sure if it matters who the figures
came from, Howard. If we publish something in the Express it matters not a jot where the information came from, if we get it wrong we have to take responsibility for that error. To say you did not agree or disagree is not, for example,
an argument which would hold much water in a libel case.
A lot has been said in recent weeks about PaulB and other contributors being online journalists and there has been some interesting debate about the use in other
publications of stuff written on this site. I think if you are going to make the case for being a journalist on one hand you have to take proper journalistic responsibility for your sources on the other.
At this stage we don't
know for certain if this information published by Dover Forum is accurate or not, I think that will be one for the town council to get involved with. But as I said earlier, it will be interesting to see how this one pans
out. - rhys
are you saying that items you publish in your letters page can get you into trouble?
that would surprise me as you normally have a disclaimer on
the page.
i have not seen anyone claiming to be a journalist on here.
i may be corrected on that though.
- Of course letters are subject
to exactly the same laws as any other part of the paper, you should see the ones that don't make it in every week. Some truly outrageous accusations about the great and the good, I can tell you!
Opinions in a letter are governed
by rules, just as quotes in a story are. If I wrote something which said Howard McSweeney said: ".................... I would have not protection in saying you said it and I was only quoting you, if I report it it is my
responsibility to ensure it is accurate and legally sound.
The reason I made reference to online journalists was because of a post made here recently accusing us at the Express of nicking things written on here by unpaid
journalists, but sadly most of those posts were wiped by the recent technical hitch with the home page so I can't say who wrote it.
But regardless of terminology, if you are a publisher, as those who run this site are in a sense,
you have to take responsibility for inaccuracies in what you put out. If we get it wrong in the paper we would expect to carry the can. That's why I always check, check and check again. - Just heard unconfirmed reports of someone being killed In Dover
- J, see thisiskent.co.uk/dover/Police-investigation-Clarendon-
Street/article-1169664-detail/article.html for the latest on the Clarendon Street incident. - Thanks
Rhys - The bickering about "journalism" here is a bit thin. There was a conversation on here about local "papers" nicking stuff from the forum, and that is exactly what
happened. Whether or not the people on here are journalists or not is not the point, the material was filched in its entirety from a forum and published without acknowledgement, giving the impression that a hack had been out and about
doing their job, which was false. Morally not right, but hey, we are talking about journos. - It must be remembered that this figure was issued by Dover Town Council themselves
to a respectable member of the community. If the figure is inaccurate then the fault lies with Dover Town Council. One tends to beleive that a figure released by a council will be accurate. Sure, right from the off it looked
disproportionately high and one is aware that the Dover figure might cover a wider remit.
But easily fixed...just tell us DTC what the annual mayoral figure is??
I have stated in the editorial at the top that a
counterbalance will be published in that editorial if they (The Council) send one to me. So far my inbox is empty. - Bern in case you are not aware ..Rhys is the
journalist on the Dover Express. - I am aware.
- PaulB, it has been easily fixed. David posted the
appropriate link which tells us that costs for mayoral and civic expenses were 57,105 in 08/09 and 36,304 in 07/08.
This information is freely available online at dovertown.co.uk/Article.aspx?ArticleID=853
The editorial
above is slightly misleading because it suggests the money spent was in respect of Mayoral Costs for the period April 2006 to October 2008. However, later on it also suggests the information supplied in response to the FOI request covers
costs of any permanent staff attached to the Mayor and Deputy Mayor and costs incurred by the council staff in respect of administration to the Mayor and Deputy Mayor.
So this isn't really the cost of having a mayor as an
individual, this is more about the cost of running a town council with all the staff and expenses that entails. So perhaps the story should be: is the town council worth it? - Does make me larf our Rhys WINging on our Doverforum, at the end of the day as paulb and bern SAYS , the posters are volunteers and as rhys knows the express lifted whole and part articles from the forum.
nice to see the
express tho concerned for others that must be a new policy
On the actual posting, as i said in earlier postings, its about do we need or can we afford 3 councils?
Look at your council tax then reply
If your happy with
the set up then all well and good, if your not lets look at how best we could streamline or do away with 1 or more councils with all the costs involved in keepng them in place. - ah well it must be said... it wouldnt be the first time in history that an editorial piece is/was slightly misleading either here or even in the most illustrious of organs! .. I must have missed Davids link as there was quite a
bit of stuff when I logged on this morning. I will go and have a look. But I would have hoped for a rebuff from the Council with their own version of events....but I believe Mike Webb Town Clerk is away, that might have something to do
with it.
It was interesting to note in the information from Pat Sherratt, that Dover Town Council were the last one to respond, or indeed more accurately, failed to respond to his requests at all, and when they did respond after
an element of forcing, they got their own figure wrong. - PaulB, I think what has happened is DTC has given a reasonable figure, but one covering a lot more than other councils
have because the terms of the FOI request were a little bit fuzzy to begin with. Just my opinion, but I think that's where the confusion has come from.
K, the Express has never "lifted whole and part articles from the forum"
but we have for many years quoted amusing titbits in Dubris, a practice which has now stopped at PaulB's request. - Thanks for everyone making their
comments
Firstly I want to make it clear I have no problem with a town having a Mayor and indeed many do an excellent job.There may be issues, as reported in the Express,and in the comments on the Forum it is indeed suggested
that the people of Dover should vote for their Mayor and perhaps be more democratic but this is another issue.
The information posted on this site is as supplied by each of the councils mentioned and although some think it
fabricated I have hard copies of all figures in my possession as Paul b is aware and indeed the Express were informed was available for inspection.
From the comments it does seem that different councils show their costs in
different ways if Jan Tranters comments are correct. If this is so then how can anyone compare "apples with apples" when requesting the identical information from Councils. It is strange therefore that other councils seem to have
understood what costs were requested as the request was sent on the same e-mail to all councils.
This shows a need for a standard accounting practice through all councils otherwise it is very easy for councils, if shown to be at
major variance to others, to use this reason.
I note several others have raised other issues and of course it is their right if they so require to obtain such information under the Freedom of Information Act. We are in a free
country and under this act the poeople are entitled to ask where their rates are being spent and by whom.
There is much to be done in Dover as despite people knocking the town it has the potential to offer so much but it needs the
money channeled to benefit the town and not on excessive administration costs, this also applies to DDC, KCC and Central Government as in times when people are cutting their cloth so must our elected representatives and the civil
Servants that administer them.
I wish the current Mayor all success and I am sure we shall see many innovations in the next year. - Pat - as mentioned below there is never
going to be one way of accounting for costs between councils as they all function so differently. Dover's Mayor is with town council, Ashford's with the district, how the parties do things can affect things, each council has different
responsibilities, internal charges vary, direct vs indirect costs, etc, etc.
I am asked to compile info for FOI requests quite often and how a request is interpreted can drastically change the
results..... - PaulB - it may be open, but still looks unfinished from above !!
farm4.static.flickr.com/3473/3717811206_40885eff1b_b.jpg - It would appear that the free flow lane for vehicles coming down Jubilee Way has gone and the Town traffic coming down Jubilee Way will have to queue with the traffic for the
Port, I can see more traffic using Castle Hill in the future. - Paul Ive had a look at this through the oul binocolors and I can see the join. But the shot you show there from the
air doesnt show it clearly. What is happening is that the newer part of the road is newly surfaced tarmac, until it gets to the apron of the harbour, then they use the old concrete type surface that was already in place, but there are
all the usual road markings and so forth that you cant see in the aerial shot. So in other words two surfaces one road. - Martin I think the free flow coming down the Jubilee
Way is still in place for local move through traffic. If you have a look at Paul/Scotchies picture you can probably see it. I will have another look in a second to double check myself.
Ah...no it doesnt show it in Scotchies
picture. - Looks like you are right Paul, it seems to merge with the existing one lane as soon as you turn left off of Jubilee Way, will have a look later when I go to
work. - Some of the workers are moaning about it, it seems the lorries go under Jubilee Way and emerge out on new road, they do not exit docks to go up Jubilee Way, they must
have to come along to the nearest roundabout to get back, to go up Jubilee way to get to the A2 - Sheila I wasnt at any briefing today so not totally sure how it all
works...but...I can see trucks coming out of the docks via the old roundabout and they appear to be getting shunted up Jubilee Way.
The ones that want to come this way, heading west, come out the new road. That seems to be the
plan anyway from the distant observer...although just to add to the confusion I have just seen cars and a bus coming across the old roundabout and coming west.
Im sure its all clear to someone in the planning
dept. - Surely it's all down to correct signage in the docks, A2 this way A20 that. As to local traffic coming down JW and merging into traffic from the roundabout, I don't
see the problem, there's less traffic. Seems like a good idea. Just done it. - Signage in docks not very good at moment, some of the workers got confused
- I'll be using the new road in anger next week so will let you know what I think a bit later.
- brilliant shot of
the lightning Phil !!! - Tried all my life to take picture like that, I can remember standing in middle of campsite, in the middle of a storm, all alone, trying to take such a
picture, with no success. Green eyed monster. - Great shot there Phil.
- Great shot - either
you were very fluky or you spend hours clicking away in the hope of getting a shot - like I did but didn't :( - Thanks - it was a bit of a fluke as I didn't
really know what I was doing. I set the camera on a night sky setting, pointed it in the direction of the thunderstorm and kept taking 15 second exposures hoping for the best. I got soaked whilst sheltering the camera with my umbrella,
mind! Can't wait for the next thunderstorm to try again. - Great picture, the lightning last night was sensational, hardly any thunder though but plenty of
rain! - yes i am bit green eyed over here as well.. fantastic lightening last night and was getting very strange looks hanging out of my front room windows with my camera as
well... ohh dear!
Well done Phil! - Good picture Phil wow that was a storm and a bit,looked like daylight at one point, had a birds eye view from my front room
window.
- whether you got lucky or not phil, the pics show that nature can still give us great theatre.
- personly i cant see it working.
- Hmmm....thinking about this retrospectively, standing in a pool of water in the
back garden with a camera fixed on a metal tripod whilst holding a metal pole (a.k.a. umbrella) aloft underneath a raging thunderstorm may not have been the most sensible thing to do. Don't try this at home kids. - i did wonder at the wisdom, i just assumed that all you photography chaps would do anything for a scoop.
a bit like that scene in the "killing
fields". - Thunderbolts and lightening, very very frightening ....!
Clever Phil! Three superb shots there. Try the rubber mat next time, though ... :-
D - Phil we will have to rename you our man of the skys with the shots of this week.
You've given Patrick Moore a run for his money keep um comeing. - Thanks Jan, and the fruity peel spread-on-toast one.
Two chances to see the ISS tonight, at 22:08 and 23:44, and one chance tomorrow, at 22:33. Look to the west...if
the clouds bugger off that is. By Patrick Moore's monocle, it had better be clear. - Well done to Phil with the exceptional pictures...this man is on a roll!! It makes a
very exciting page and very topical..we're right on the pace what with all the lunar celebrations today..and we certainly couldnt have done it without Phil.
We had many visitors through this page over the weekend but not that
many left messages. If you are liking it dont be hesitant we always like to hear some positive feedback. Interestingly.. although we are mostly a positive outlook website and enjoy bringing pictures of events and so on, yet on those
occasions we do some negativite stuff, it always brings the greatest feedback...Rather interesting that, there's no news like bad news ! - Spectacular photos Phil, really
enjoying them and the accompanying vivid descriptions! - Well done again. Phil.
May I suggest, however, that it could become inauspicious to continue star-gazing. The
space station has a record thirteen astronauts aboard, and a news bulletin earlier today reports that the toilet has ceased to function ... - You've done it
again Phil its sure hard to belivie that its 40 years since men walked on the moon, seeing these picture's just shows how incredible it seems. - But did they really walk
on the Moon? the footage looks like a poorly made B movie. - I went to the Neil Armstrong museum in Wapokaneta in Ohio,bet no one else has been
there. - Wow thats pretty impressive John. I saw the very place on TV last night. Well I never...one up to you and no mistake. How on earth did you end up in Wapokaneta?? Im
fascinated! - The toilet in the ISS has broken? I'll remember to take my umbrella out the next time it passes over. You never
know. - My friends live in Huber Heights a suburb of Dayton famous of course for the Wright Brothers and about an hours drive away is the Neil Armstrong Museum.Also in Dayton is
Wright Patterson Air Force Museum which has planes rockets space ships and other associated items.
It is a hugh place and free,The Neil Armstrong Museum at Wapokaneta is a small museum and includes Neil Armstrongs bike and had/has an
amazing walk through light show using a reflected passage where it seems you can see for ever using mirrors quite weard.Neil of course comes from Ohio and so did John Glenn who was/is a United States Senator for the state of Ohio.
As
isaid previously I was in Dayton for the 100th Anniversary for the Wright Brothers and even flew on a reconstructed Wright 'B'flyer,an amazing and scary thing held together by bits of wire and driven by a lawn mower engine,Good thing I
had my bicycle clips on! - Ah jeez thats a fab story there John. Well you are right...I bet there is no one on here, no reader even, who went to Wapokaneta. What a mouthful that
name is, very difficult even trying to write it. Native American Im thinking. When you mentioned it after me seeing it late last night BBC4 I was gobsmacked. But yes great story. If you have any pictures send them over, even if its of
the..." here I am standing in front of the etc etc" type variety.
What is it about Ohio that produces guys like these...must be something in the soil! - Wasn't there something about Huber Heights John where Dover Town was going to twin or link with it; I seem to remember the name.
Roger - My son Alex is on the right, about as far away from Prosser as he can get!
- ah now BarryW think charitable event...but yes my gosh so it is. I didnt recognise
him there in the group.Well done Alex. Glad we are able to give them some publicity so good to get the info through. - Roger you are right,Dover is linked in friendship with
Huber Heights they wanted to twin or as the yanks call it 'Sister Cities' and over the years over 200 have been to each others Towns.Also not far away is the Ohio Armish and I gave a talk about them they are really
fastinating.
- Well done Boys keep going!!! Gwyn is another matter !!!
- All the best lads on your trek
for a great cause, I was talking to another proud mum yesterday whose son is taking part. Well Done! - go for it gwyn
- "Go for it Gwyn"????? What a stupid comment!
Good luck lads, I hope you raise lots of money for our boys. How great is it to see young lads like these doing something positive for our troops, it makes me proud to be
British. - i understand that mr happy is your real name.
somehow, i feel that irony is involved here. - What a fabulous group of fellas! Well done lads.
- i would like to see g.prosser walk the 100 miles or so.roughing it with the lads would do him a bit of
good. - Thanks John, I thought that was the case.
Did you get my emails (and postings on here) about sending me a poster so I can send it round ?
Well done lads -
you'll be in Dover today then. Hope the press are here to welcome you all.
Roger - ah now now Mr Happy be polite please..spread some of that
happiness around.
- Ah now PaulB ......... I'm always polite to those that deserve it, like your good self. However, my grandson is in that photo and I took
exception to that person insinuating that Mr Prosser was anything to do with what the lads are doing, other than getting his face in the news again.
I do spread happiness where I can as I have proved in the past on here.
By the
way I love all this stuff about the moon and stars and space, fascinating stuff there. A thought I will leave you with is this ........ for all the troubles in the world, all the fighting and torment people are going through .......when
it gets dark at the end of a day, wherever in the world we are ...... we all look at the
same moon. Makes our world seem a much smaller place doesn't it? - What a lovely
thought.......thank you for that! - Well done to Chris Wood and the rest of the lad's who made it back to Dover, with a fair few blisters i'm told you should all be proud of
your achievement.
Could not agree more about big screen if they want us to watch then these big events need to be shown, otherwise like everyone else we'll stay in the comfort of our own home and watch. - What a great day on the seafront! So well organised and such a good atmosphere - well done to whoever organised that!! It was fabbo! Just what the Summer seafront should be
like. - Thanks Bern - I assume you didn't go to Duke of Yorks then !
- No need - the seafront was so good. I am
sure the DoY was good too, but I really liked what went on at the seafront today, and you can't always say that! It really was magic, and that must be down to the organisers. - Come and say hello Bern (and any one else too of course), I'm in the marquee "selling" Dover.
I didn't get out to see the stalls and things along the seafront, but there were loads of people, right up till when I
went home at about 6pm or so.
A very popular table and I've given out lots of English Discover Dover leaflets.
GaryC came and said hello - your Miners A4 sheet went Gary.
Great fireworks weren't they ? started on
the dot of 10.15 too.
Roger - Was suprised to see that Miss Dover and her court were not there, did no-one invite the
girls? - Hi Lisa. Miss Dover and her court were not invited to take part in the weekend, and unfortunatly we do not just "turn up" and hope people do not mind.
The girls
are superb ambassadors for Dover, and in my opinion SHOULD be invited to such high profile events, after all that is what they are there for, to help promote Dover and it's businesses. We used to get invites to shop openings, etc, but
even those don't happen anymore. Dover's loss I'm afraid, as it should be about working together.
Hope that helps answer your question.
lv Mand x - The Spitfire
cancelled due to a tail wheel that burst on take-off from Lydd, it was just one of those unfortunate accidents that happen and was not the fault of the organisers. To be fair, an attempt will be made later today to fly her past today to
make up.
Since day one the Red Arrows were billed as just a flypast, not a display as they had already done a display elsewhere and were announced as such. Disappointing, maybe, but they were certainly not falsely advertised. The
firework display was cracking. - Just seen the Spitfire Marvellous sight and worth waiting for. Made me proud to be English.
What a brilliant weekend for Dover.
The
fireworks were great too last night.
I think we should all give credit to DDC and all the people who have worked so hard to make this weekend happen.
Thank you. - wonderful pics of a great weekend.
would be nice to see the town and seafront packed more often during the summer months. - I agree Howard, it would
be great to see the Town and the seafront packed more often. It's not long to go before the seafront is full once again with the Regatta - less planes of course.
I agree Mr. Hopkins, a great week-end indeed.
Mandie, good
to see you today; I'll bear in mind the carnival court next time - they could have made a big difference.
Roger - Some really great shots
of the weekend was good to see the seafront so busy and alive.
Had the pleasure on saturday to meet Louis Bleriot's grandson very charming man and would say to anyone go up to the memorial behind the Castle and have a look.
One
disappointing thing was that the Red Arrow's did not do a full display but the Fireworks were great to watch. - Paul, to clarify, the French display team La Patrouille de
France currently fly the Dassault/Dornier Alpha Jet. The Red Arrows use the BAE Hawk of course. Both are similar light attack/trainer aircraft and were developed at about the same time in the early
seventies. - Many thanks for that Phil.
Thanks for the picture contributions from all our readers and members but I was only able to use a
relative few. But really appreciate the help. - The stunt plane is a Boeing Stearman with a wingwalker attachment on top of the wings. It carried an 89 year old wingwalker
across from France earlier in the day. They had to send him straight back to Afghanistan, of course. It's bad enough getting all these illegals without their grandads coming to visit
them! - The July thunderstorm from the sea (Aurora), see video on YouTube
- Great pictures there Phil, Karol and Paul, the firework display was tremendous. A big well done to the organisers of this 'entente cordiale' weekend.
- True -
why the hell can't we have nice cafe-style seating and cafes in the Market Square, a la 'village' affair pictured above. What's holding us back, apart from inertia, lack of imagination and crushing, numbling parochialism? Let's
think continental and reclaim the Market Square for the civilised majority.
Fantastic pictures. This weekend's events showed Dover at its best. Where else is there such a
spectacular seafront, with the major commercial hubbub of the port in the foreground, the beautiful buildings and gardens, and the castle and cliffs as a backdrop? It really is very special. We don't know how lucky we are. After all, we
could be living somewhere like Stevenage or Harlow (no thanks).
Dover has it all there for the taking and then some. It still has plenty of pizazz under the surface. The old place deserves much better treatment than it gets from
the decision makers.
Onwards and upwards, Dovorians!- What a weekend it was, the planes and fireworks were fantastic just a shame that with a small family it cost a
fortune to do anything with them. Prices far to high and on a budget the only good thing was the free fireworks and planes as couldnt afford much else especially food and drink.
On a positive note well done to the organizers!!!
Andy S what a great idea for the market square, cheer up a dull and uninspiring market place. Bring on the Cafes !!! - Thanks guys re pictures etc always good to hear as a big
effort is made by all the guys to get them. Barnstormer thanks for the info on plane will change the copy above later.
Jasper in the dining 'village' as pictured above, a punnet of chips was £2.50 which seems fair enough when
you consider everything... I only have the one 'child' to feed though, now of course an ever hungry teenager, who always wants...chips! so chips she got and thats why I know the price first hand. Its true though if there are 2 or 3
kids or indeed more, it mounts up. But all n all I thought the price was fair. It seems to compare reasonably well with local fish n chip places.
Dont know how much the rides were
though. - The only dissapointing thing for me was the price of the food, there were 4 of us, 2 adults and 2 kids, so we walked across to the chippy in Castle St and paid half the
price, alot of people were doing the same, but at least that was still using a local business. - I don't really want to grumble either but a pint in the beer stand was £3.50;
never seen one with no queues before, but I know why.
Andy S.
Creating a Spanish/Italian/French style Piazza area in the Market Square is on my list of things to do - once the Dover Business Support body gets the financial
support it needs, to become a reality.
Roger - Posted on behalf of Adeline Reidy who wrote:
Good Afternoon Everyone.
Things are
looking up in Castle St.
Snoops Night Club has finally been cleaned and painted (only the front but it is something) it has taken 3 years, but we don’t give up.
The New Council offices are open.
The Tea Caddy has
been sold and will be overhauled.
Mowll & Mowll empty premises -New Negotiations are going on.
Crosse’s Old Shop - New Stationers are re fitting.
Pavements have been pressure cleaned (on the left going down –
right side has been done earlier this year)
Bradley’s scaffolding is up
Tattoo shop has had paint up
Flowers are blooming on the lampposts Thanks to the organized watering and the weather
And thank you to all
the premises that have put floral displays out
Flags are flying (a few more would look even better)
Just want the St James Development to start and this would help Woolcomber St and the area. (I wonder when)??
Regards to you all
Adeline - Thats a nice list of positives there Adeline, together with the great postings and pictures from the fantastic weekend in
Dover, we are moving forward. The St James Developement would be the icing on the cake, if only........ - Yes it was a good weekend,and what a good idea
from Andy,nice to meet you today sorry we didn't get chance to have a chin wag,and things are looking good in Castle Street,in 2 weeks time is the Regatta and fingers crossed for the weather.It is always a good few days.
Then to add
to the weekend I am pleased to say An Evening with Richard Digance with Louise Orfila and Rags to Riches has moved into the black.At last I can tell Mrs JHG that the money I had 'invested' in it can come back into my bank
account.
Anyone who still wants a ticket better move fast if you want the best seats only 16 in the first 5 rows left,plenty of cheaper seats left.and Howard I hope you are showing that Richard Digance poster I gave
you! - paul
the big slidey thing you showed on the first morning was £.2 for 5 minutes, the bungee trampoline type thing was £.5. for the same.
expensive for a
family.
whre do you normally get your chips at £.2.50 a g? i will try to avoid it.
mine worked out at 20 pence a chip!!
i saw the beer prices, roger has already mentioned it.
stii. prices are always ovre the top at
these events.
john
thanks for the richard digance poster, it has taken pride of place in my front window.
my neighbours now want a re-evaulation of their property for council tax purposes. - Up of course Howard ,don't tell the Council
- just spotted the earlier post from roger.
the piazza thing for
market square would be a big plus for dover.
with the snoops place painted up, the gateway centre open and the new screen, the area is starting to look alive.
all passengers from the ferries and cruise terminal have to pass
through, usually on foot.
time to look to the future? - It would be great to have the Market Square opened up a bit with a piazza - how cool is that?! It
really is starting to look more upbeat. Good stuff, everyone! - Time to look to the future indeed Howard; you seem to be the only one who reads my postings, I thought they were
being written in invisisble ink ! - thanks for that.
We (Dover) can only move forward in a meaningful way when funding is in place; as you know I tried the Loyalty scheme for just over two years and had to close it because there
was no "official" support for it - moral or financial and it was costing me quite a lot of money, so I'm not going down the road of giving up all my time for nowt, again.
Having said that, I've just produced three Discover
Dover leaflets - two in French and one in English - with no offical support, apart from some very welcome funding for a space in the leaflet, from Dover Town Council, so you can see the Town Council are supporting tourism and businesses.
Roger - Roger no worries at all ...we are all reading your postings. You seem to be an oasis of good ideas lately, an oasis in a desert it must
be said!
It does seem a shame that you are left there with no official support and no official funding and many readers will be upset by that. After all you are really trying to take us forward...but all at your own expense. Im
not sure what you mean by the reference to Dover Town Council...what kind of funding was it?? did they just buy some ad space in the leaflet?? Clarification needed! - Stuart Morris,
Thanks for your video on youtube. Are you aware of the ghost ship that shows itself twice in your film? Or was there another vessel sailing near your ship? Do tell - I'm
fascinated! - I always read your postings, Roger. You are a one-man think tank for the town. A shame you don't get more tangible support (ie: dosh etc). Keep on keeping on -
we're all right behind you for the good of Dover. Cheers, Andy. - Thanks PaulB and Andy - I was beginning to wonder.
The reference to the Town Council is because I
submitted an application for part-funding for an English version of the Discover Dover leaflet to the Town Council and they agreed; they felt that instead of just "part-funding" the leaflet, it would be better if they actually take a
space in it, so they are now mentioned on the front page and have half the back page.
So this shows they are supporting Tourism and Businesses. We just need that next step, but it is a big next step, but will see Dover move
forward in leaps and bounds. - I thought I was seeing things to Jacqui. I hope he can let us know x
- Good luck with the book Lorraine - we competed for a release date and ours is now due out in November :)
- This looks like a great book on the creepy
goings on in Dover, I didn't realise that the castle was haunted to that extent. The story about Archbishop Geoffrey sounds so terrifying it will leave you cowering under the bedclothes. Don't forget to check under the bed before you
turn out the light. All the best with the success of your book Lorraine. - Thanks Paul and Colette.
Dover, at one time, rivalled most towns in the
UK for ghostly goings on ... a good way to cover smuggling activities!!!
However, when that aspect of the town's economic past started to change direction a number of our long term residents stayed behind.
Sadly, the
concrete and glass mentallity, that still dominates the town's development, have done their best to get rid of 'Old Dover' ... but like the herring gulls, these long term residents have adapted and are still 'alive' and haunting!
So as part of our town's history, they deserve publicity and that is what my book has set out to do.
Happy reading and getting to know our oldest residents!
Lorraine - Yes, good luck with the book Lorraine, hope it does well.
So much history here, there's bound to be the odd lost soul - maybe they aren't so odd afterall.
Kind
Regards
Roger - Absoultely - good luck with the book to Lorraine.
Roger, can I also say I always read and enjoy your posts, and
welcome the high level of sense and committment that sit in them. I am always disappointed if I log in and there are no new postings from you! Dover is lucky to have you. - I am
not after votes (unlike some vote-chasing but charming posters here!!) and hesitate to be too political, but the 38 degrees group isn't party political, and I just wanted to share with you some of the options we have. I am a but alarmed
that the absolute fury we all felt about MPs expenses and the gaping hole it blew in theri credibility will be forgotten and the smug gits will carry on regardless! So I have posted below a few good reasons to try out the 38 Degrees
webaite and sign up!! I have also posted this in the Members bit.
38 Degrees is the angle at which an avalanche happens. In the UK, 38 Degrees will enable people to act together, to create an avalanche for change.
More
jobs are lost and homes repossessed, but bankers are still giving themselves big bonuses. Let's not forget the lessons of the financial crash. Sign our petition to tell the Chancellor Alistair Darling to rein the bankers in.
The
Banks may recently have been bailed out by us, but that hasn't stopped them kicking increasing numbers of families out of their homes. Together we can make the government do more to stop repossessions and keep people in their
homes.
What would you do if the main place you worked was closing for 82 days? That’s the choice facing our MPs right now, with Parliament shutting until 12th October.
Many MPs say that parliament shutting until October
12th is a chance to get back to their constituencies to listen to us and catch up on important work.
But what is your MP really planning to do whilst parliament is closed down? MPs are supposed to work for us, so we’ve got a right
to know their plans. Get involved and together we can uncover the truth.
If you have had enough of the way politicians and powerful organisations ignore your views on the issues you care about, then get involved with 38 Degrees. If we
all act together, at the right moment, with the right message, delivered to the right people, then together we can make change happen.
It’s free to sign up. Receive our campaign emails and if you like what we are doing, you can
get involved. We believe when enough people get together change happens. Together we can create a better, fairer Britain for all. Please join us and be part of the avalanche for change. It just takes one click.
- Sounds great. Look forward to buying a copy.
- How great cant wait to read it, i am looking forward to booking a
ghost tour at the castle toward the end of the year also spooky !!!! - Sounds very interesting. There is so much wonderful spooky history in Dover!
- Thank you Bern.
Roger - I agree with Bern, regarding what he says about Roger,
(also a few of his other comments). And that Jasper is going to the Castle to meet some of Dover's long term residents.
However, there are many others that actually reside in Dover ... as you will see when you read the book for
instance ...
My favourite is Agnes, who hangs out on the green near the traffic lights on Queen Street (she is also seen in Queen Street, Goal Lane, Bench Street and King Street). She, I suppose, could be said to have been a
murderess, but she also ensured (s) that peace was restored and maintained in Dover, when persons get too big for their boots!
Then there is the headless William who wanders around Market Square ... the bain of those who drink too
much and also litter louts, so I am told.
Moving further afield, Western Heights, Samphire Hoe, Alkham Valley, Temple Ewell, Whitfield not to mention those nearer in Biggin Street, Effinham Crescent and our pubs and the Discovery
Centre ...
In fact our long term residents are there all doing what they have been doing for a number of years just waiting (no aching) to be taken on board by some TV show such as 'Strictly Come Spooking' just to show that
they are the best in the country ... ney the World!!!!
Lorraine - Lorraine ..... is there a local stockist of your book at i cant wait to get my hands on a
copy, i am so intrested in the history of our little town it will be a must read for me.
- Thank you lorraine - and I am a she!!!
- My book, Haunted Dover, can be ordered through any of Dover's book shops, such as W H Smiths. I am hoping that places like Museum, Castle and the WCCP outlets will also stock
it.
One of the (many) problems with Dover is that unless you are part if the in-crowd ... you know one of those who get invited to DDC/DTC functions, you are seen as a 'nobody' and consequently find it difficult to persuade
stockists to hold your work.
The same applies to coverage. The Mercury and dovertoday are likely to give coverage ... but what about the DXpress !!!
This, not only applies to me but to the likes of other stalwarts who are
trying to get Dover on the tourist map such as Brian Philp and Roger Walkden to name but two. I bet neither of them were invited to the 'tourism luncheon' at the Bleriot site last Saturday lunchtime.
Then there are the other
accolaids .. of note Terry Sutton received a justly deserved MBE for his work as a local newshound, but what about Graham Tutthill?
The Town Council not long ago introduced their annual ceremony of awards. Sadly, already those
chosen are reflecting the 'in-crowd mentality'.
This mentality has, over the past few decades has done more harm to Dover than the dog dirt, litter and the one finger jerkers that foul up our streets today.
When I come
back in the after life, I will make it my business to hound such people!!!
Lorraine.
- Very interesting Lorraine. Good luck with the book, I hope you
find some stockists soon. Sussex Booksellers seem to have many local books on sale, so I'm sure they will be worth a try. I'll buy a copy as soon as I can find one. - I believe
there is a light show spectacular at the castle on Saturday evening - does anyone have anymore details on this as I don't recall seeing any mention of it on the site - Bad
news guys - new ferry service opening up from Boulogne to Ramsgate in August. We are now competing for the day trip passengers from France and they will no doubt be running buses to Westwood Cross
NEWS RELEASE
Boulogne
and Ramsgate Fast ferry Service
EUROFERRIES announces today it will commence its planned Fast Cross Channel Passenger Ferry Service between the ports of Boulogne & Ramsgate during August.
EUROFERRIES recently announced
fast ferry services will operate from its two dedicated ferry terminals located within the ports of Boulogne and Ramsgate and have now signed agreements with both Ports.
The fast ferry the “Bonanza Express” will be operated by
Euroferries in conjunction with its partner, FRED OLSEN who over the years has developed its highly regarded fast ferry service.
EUROFERRIES initial service, commencing late August will comprise of 5 daily crossings, with Bonanza
Express an Incat 96m with a capacity of 146 first class and 570 additional passengers, carrying a combination of cars and luxury coaches. Capable of an operational speed of 38 knots it enables the channel crossing to be completed in a
time that favourably competes port to port with the Channel Tunnel crossing time.
A second vessel will join the Bonanza Express service increasing passenger capacity and will also carry a combination of cars and luxury coaches.
EUROFERRIES are responding positively to passenger demand for a fast, efficient and friendly crossing, combined with the use of comfortable seating and attentive cabin crew providing an “in-seat” shopping service. The latest
internet technology will further improve our customer experience bringing further added value customer benefits.
Euroferries Chairman, Per Staehr today said : "Euroferries signing of this Agreement with Thanet District Council
enables us to look forward to building a long term relationship with the local community. Our new five crossing a day high speed service, will be focused on tourist traffic and takes full advantage of the new motorways both to Ramsgate
and Boulogne along with the fast turn round terminal facilities within both Ports.
This agreement permits us to shortly announce the release of the new web booking service, further details and the provision of our new commuter
coach service between London’s Stratford Hub and Ramsgate serving Canterbury and the Medway towns. Whilst, today is Thanet District Council's special occasion, we are delighted to attend and to welcome our partner Fred Olsen. The
impending arrival of Bonanza Express, Incat 96m in its new Euroferries livery will provide the opportunity for Euroferries to welcome you when we will make further announcements."
Further announcements will be forthcoming in
the near future including Euroferries partners, ferry services, timetable, pricing and booking arrangements in addition to further announcements regarding the introduction of Euroferries commuter coach service between London and
Ramsgate.
END
31/07/09
- I will believe it when it actually starts.
- Dear Lorraine
All
success with your new book.
Yes I agree with you re the "in-crowd" and there are so many unsung heros that put much of their time in activities etc that benefits our town that so many people are too quick to knock.
To
name three: Mike McFarnell, Jeremy Cope, and Jack Woolford and I am sure other users could add dozens more. So to all those who put so much unsung effort into Dover a "Thank you from an appreciative resident" - Thank you Lorraine, we fight where we can.
Perhaps when you come back, you'll be the pigeon, not the statue !
LocalView:
The Castle's been lit up with different
colours all this week I believe.
I did ask for an invitation from EH at Guildford, to the launch of the refurbished Tower, needless to say, it wasn't forthcoming.
Good to see that Dover and the Castle made National and
local news.
That news release doesn't state how long the journey between Boulogne and Ramsgate will be.
As was shown with Speedferries, they need to be able to accept freight too.
I wonder if LD will do anything
different.
With the Discover Dover leaflet promoting the historic sites and attractions here, as well as the accommodation sector and the good quality shops, pubs, cafe's and restaurants etc. it was quite timely to have it ready
and distributed out and about in Boulogne.
Roger - Hi Roger
I've seen the castle lit during the week but have just heard on the BBC
South East News that the full light display will be tomorrow evening. Can't believe you didn't get an invite from EH - like Lorraine says it's not a case of what you know more who you know!!
Good point about LD Lines and the
freight will keep them ticking over during the quieter winter period. One thing for sure Ramsgate cannot compete with Dover when it come to historic sites and attractions, added to that all the recent improvements and future plans as
long as we move quickly we should have an edge
- first i have heard about the light show.
i was lucky enough to be at a preview evening of the tower last
week, the chap in charge kept stressing to us all that we should "spread the word", so that more visitors see the wonderful new tower.
we all know who spreads the word the most about dover, so why was he not invited??
what have you done to upset the applecart roger? - Think the key is Howard, local contacts. Via Guildford often hits dead ends :(
- You may well be right Paul and Howard, but I don't who, if I have, upset anyone.
It was Guildford I was advised to contact; as I had been communicating with them for
the leaflet, it made sense (mistakenly as it turned out) to ask them.
I would have thought that many local reps would have been invited, especially within the local tourism field, so they can push it from personal
experience.
Oh well.
Roger - I have been told that that the lights and imagery are brilliant and best seen from the west of the town
... we can't see anything particular spectacular from where we live in Danes Court.
Perhaps one of the reasons for the lack of invite is because people keep spelling the mc's title as Guildford when it should be Guilford -
without the d - it has nothing to do with the place. (Sorry - as a local researcher/historian I have to be careful of such things).
With regards to my book, Haunted Dover, and lack of copies in local book shops. It would appear
that they have been sent to the central depots of the outlets from where they are distributed. So hopefully they will be in the shops next week.
Finally, I agree with Pat, there are numerous unsung heroes/heroines in Dover but of
the three he/she named, two have been made Honorary Portsmen by Dover Town Council, but sadly not the third, Jeremy Cope. May be after this little discussion, he and Roger will get their accolades next year?
Lorraine
- As in Lord Guilford
- I get cross because none of the authorities seem to appreciate
how much Roger and Jean do for this Town. Roger is the single best person we have fighting for Dover and trying to improve things for businesses and all of us.
What do we have to do to get Roger recognised as Dover`s single and
only spokesman. Roger is not afraid to tell the truth.
There are loads of people in Dover who are brilliant and I have only been here for two years. I came to Dover because I wanted to.
There is so much potential here but
I have to ask who do we kick up the backside to get it started.
We can`t blame DDC or the Town Council who fight for Dover. KCC or our MP. I don`t know?
Dover needs a refurb and we all know that. Things are happening but
for goodness sake we need to keep the tourists in Dover not Canterbury or certainly not rip off London. What do DHB do for Dover?????
If every one on this site speaks out for Roger we can have a man who can do this for
us.
Yes I know Roger and Jean as friends and I think we should be proud of them both.
Roger sat in the tent on his own last weekend giving out his leaflets from 9am to about 6 pm. He was not paid for this.
The
leaflets promote local businesses and more important Dover. He was not paid for anything. Roger does this for Dover and his feelings for the Town.
Come on Dover how about a campaign to get Roger and Jean recognised for the work
they do in their own time and at their own expense for our Town.
I run businesses in Dover and I know Roger and Jean as friends. They are a lovely couple but more important is that Jean supports Roger in his fight for Dover.
Bit of a challenge then, who wants to" nail their colours to the mast " as we were a naval port. Let`s have a campaign to support Roger and Jean in their work for Dover and get it recognised.
Roger and Jean are not
aware I have posted this.
- Count me in.
- I am now
Graham - you naughty person, but thanks.
The tenner's on it's way !
I'm not after a pat on the back and a sweet, but we all know Dover needs working on - on many levels and I am waiting for the time when I will be able
to do this, but, as I've said before the post needs funding - from many quarters.
Just to let you know that Jean and I took some Discover Dover leaflets down to Crabble Corn Mill yesterday late morning and had a chat with Ant
there.
He offered to take them round to the (known) Caravan sites in and around Dover and emasiled me to say that he had taken them to 6 different sites across the District, from Martin to Capel.
This is what working together
is all about; I also heard from the Hoteliers group that many of their members are happy to give them out/display them to and for their guests, so even greater coverage for our historic sites and attractions and local
businesses.
Maybe a "Discover Dover" website could be next ? who could write it (for free) ? I can give the input, but I don't have the technical ability to write the "HTML" (?)
- GRAHAM(May i call you graham?)
There are always dangers of picking out 1 person saying he/she works the hardest, there are many people in Dover working hard to try
to make it a better place, they come from all political persuasions, and some non political.
Roger like others works hsard and no one doubts that, but so do many others.
just my little imput
keep up the good work
roger - The light show last night at Dover Castle was captivating. Families and winners of the competition which ran in the local papers took part in the fun by colouring in
their designs on the keep with a virtual paintbrush.
Little kids and big kids alike waved sparklers as the fire-jugglers spun their flaming torches to light up the eerie night sky. The actors from 'Pastime Pleasures' paid their
parts to the full as the French Royal Family where the audience were also made to feel as they were part of the scene, in some cases being 'presented' to the King. The delicious cuisine which was supplied by Payne & Gunter was
excellent. The views from the castle down to the town rarely seen at that time of night were fantastic with the drizzle reflecting the lights. Well Done to the organisers and staff at English Heritage and Dover Castle for a Great
Show. - Hi Graham,
I agree with everything you say and have said as much on here and on the members site before. Roger and Jean are an inspiration in
their suport of our town and should be recognised for that. Keith you always come out with your usual line - ie "others work just as hard" - I would disagree. There are others who work for Dover, I agree, but none so hard, so
selflessly and for nothing like Roger. He is the very epitome of the word gentleman, modest, polite, and thoroughly decent.
So yes Graham, there should be public recognition of Roger and Jean. They should be mayor and mayoress of
Dover (and that is said with no disrespect for our present lovely mayor and mayoress).
As Bern said - count me in! - Talking about putting on events,we only have 11 of the
best seats for Richard Digance left on Sep 05th 7pm so if you want to come now is the time to reserve and pay for your tickets otherwise you may not get the choice and will end up sitting in the cheaper area of which we have dozens
left.
Many have said that they want to go and haven't followed thru,many have asked for the details and I have heard nothing so spread the word,reserve now or you may be dissaponted.
Howard,I have got your back stage pass to see
Richard. - great stuff john, i cannot stress highly enough what an honour it will be for richard to meet me.
- Was expecting to see you at the castle last night Roger, as I didn't see your earlier post. We hope to follow up with a picture or two soon. Keep up the good work, as Colette always says you are the 'stalwart' supporter of
this town. - JACQUI(PREsume your same jacqui )!!!!!!!
I stand by what I say Roger is a fab guy, works hard in his own way, but so do many others, and its wrong to pick
out 1 individual.
As i'v said Roger and jean are putting in lots of work like many others and i congratulate them ALL
- that picture reminds
me of my mrs on a bad day. - I was hoping to see me up there too Barry - sadly not.
I know my place !
Keith, there are lots of volunteers in many fields working
in various ways in Dover (and other Towns and Cities too of course), whether it's me or Joe Bloggs who gets some praise for what they do, it doesn't dimish other people's work.
I might blush a little when I read these
supportive postings, but like anyone who is being thanked for what they do, it should be O.K. for others to say a public thank you - shouldn't it ?
We rightly thank people like Terry Nunn for his public services and Mike
McFarnell too and countless others.
Roger - Bring back Lorraine - she's much more attractive !!
Roger
- I see where Keith is coming from .Some people get a higher profile than others .When I was the Community Portfolio Holder I was being asked to attend events
here there and everywhere .The fact Im no longer on the cabinet doesnt mean i have stopped working .In fact Im busy arranging a party for the over sixties here in River .Im off to Age Concern later today .There was no publicity over the
fact I have recentkly been re elected Chairman .
Roger dont worry about an invite to the Castle I didnt get one either .Over the Bleriot weekend there were many events which councillors were invited but I did not receive an invite to
anything .
I gather a group of French people went to the Musuem I learnt that after the event .
Still keep working Roger . - Now that on the Big Screen would be a
turn off .My daughter works in Birmingham and she informs me the area where there is a mock up beach complete with screen is far bigger than Market Square .
My elder son saw the screen yesterday I cannot print what he said . - Well done Roger and Jean
As i stated also in my posting, but stand by my posting, there are .lots of people helping to put Dover on the map
and help its
people
even my old mate Ken! - Sorry to have missed the Castle light show but from the above pictures it looks fantastic, heard some good comments from people around the
town today so well done Dover, and for those of us who missed it thanks for the brief run down of the evening sounds brillant. - On the castle I think iv never seen the
castle look so colourful - Spectacular stuff. The king of castles. Nuff said.
- The castle looks Fab well done to all
concerned, i understand it has been done up from the time of Henry 2nd and Elenor of Aquataine, i have read a brilliant book about this era and the two of them it is called "Time and Chance " by Sharon Penman. It is a wonderful read.
The mayor and husband look rather tatty though you think he could have worn a tie!!! - Any photos of the new inside of the
Keep? - no flash photography allowed phil.
good thing too.
the atmosphere is enough with the sights and smells of the time that henry and eleanor held
court. - I have just spoken to the Director/Chair of our group, and a responce will be posted to the above letter very
soon. - As Director Chairman I shall respond on behalf of ALL the DCAL tem.
Firstly Mrs Rosser really should get her facts correct.
1. There is no mayhem in the
DCAL camp. We have our strongest committee ever.
2. The posting on the DCAL website was put up AFTER Fiona Ann had been stood down. Mrs Rosser has a sheer lack of memory on this part.
3.Mrs Rosser has asked for people to
move on from rumour, however just seeing her posting above does NOTHING to help Fiona. Fiona has kept quiet, such a pity her mother wishes to constantly insight trouble, something those of you who will remember Mr Cook will know only to
well.
4. no-one asked Fiona or Mrs rosser to sponsor lion dancers so therefore no thanks from DCAL is needed.
5. no-one has accused Fiona of being a thief however you were asked to return the dress BEFORE carnival day, and
what did you do?? Turn up at the evening function with it, by which time DCAL had to pay out for another dress we did not need to.
6. The trophy YOU told me was being engraved in Canterbury. Over 5 weeks ago. You are now telling
people it is in Hampshire. Please make your mind up Mrs Rosser. But as usual you are telling the truth. (mmmm)
7. Fiona ann was stood down because of Mrs Rossers OPEN critisim of DCAL and it's chaperones.
8. There was NO
mistaken identity regarding a particular person other than HE had the wrong person.
9. You do Fiona ann a serious injustice Mrs Rosser, she has I know expressed you stop and yet you still do not listen.
10. DCAL made a
decision based on a committee vote, and welfare of 6 other court members. The mayor has been fully notified.
11. NO other princess or committee member have left Mrs Rosser, you really should be very careful of what you accuse.
Tell me who they are???? You can't because you are lying.
12. You state hurtful things have been said to Fiona, perhaps she is not the only one eh??? look to yourself please before you have a go at others, or shall we discuss
blatent lies where you said a court members mother had assaulted you and you had brusies.
13. Everyone APART FROM YOU MRS ROSSER has moved on, if you have any respect for your daughter you will do the same
- Why don't you and Mrs. Rosser apply to appear on the Jeremy Kyle Show, it's about the mentality of all this. You are both using in public the poor kid as a weapon,
disgraceful.
Just one point why the hell is a fundraising organisation a limied company? - I don't think it matters what it is Alan as long as there is some regulation over
the accounts. However, I would have thought that a
registered charity would have been more appropriate. - Airing your dispute in the public domain is wrong, sort it
out in private and with some dignity. I dread to think what affect this is having on the 14 year old child at the centre of it. - Alan the answer is very simple. When we raise
funds we make it public knowledge. As a limited company you have to do that, and it also means our accounts are available to anyone who would like to apply to see them, as JUST an organisation we do not have to show anything. DCAL
decided to do this after serious questions were raised and still are being raised about the OLD organisation. It is that simple.
Dover forum appears to be the only people entertaining Mrs Rosser. There were NO postings which were
harsh, at all.
Carnivals Terry can not Get registered charity status We have already looked at it - Martin I agree. Paul B posted this letter or rant. I have the right to
reply when serious inaccuraces are there. I truly believe that the right thing to do rather than bander this childs picture about etc with such a letter is to remove it. Mrs Rosser has been asked to put anything she wishes to say to us
via letter, and they will be answered but she has not done that. - Good God, the pair of you are on equal footings, why cant you do this face to face instead of a public forum. It
is disgraceful that the pair of you do this. All the while Dover is suffering and that little girl. BICKERING AT ITS BEST !!!!
Sort i out ladies, go on be brave meet each other and do it face to face i dare you both? NO not brave
enough i think!!!! - Jasper no bickering on my part. The subject WAS closed, but what I won't have is a public forum printing something with so many in accuraces. Like I said
if no reply was warrented why put it up on the forum to start with??
You cannot expect something containing such lies to go up and people not respond - I have no doubt that
the child would prefer this matter to go away but two obviously disfunctional people would prefer to air their grievances in public with the obvious sufferer, the child.
You are correct Martin of Deal, the Mother and the DCAL
committee should act with some dignity and spare a fourteen year olds feelings. - How dare you refer to me as disfunctional Alan, who made you god??
If I am so
disfunctional ask the other 60+ former DCAL court members.
DCAL have kept all of this from the public domain other than to make a short statement on the DCAL website which does not list reasons, but wished Fiona well for the
future - This is disgraceful - if you cannot sort it out in private maybe DCAL should be stood down!!
- DCAL have
sorted it out, and the result was that the young lady was stood down. This All took place over a month ago. We are not the ones dragging the whole thing back up over a month later - stand down the lot of you!!!! let someone new take the reins hopefully to a brighter future then the past we leave behind
- Absolutely Localview, hurtful enough for the
young girl when she was stood down, let alone and I stand by my words, two disfunctional adults accusing one and other of telling lies.
Incidentally I am unable to access the DCAL website.
I shan't take up the god bit Mandie as
that will make me as bad as you. - Why don't you come on boaqrd Jasper, you more than welcome to come see the hard graft we all put in for FREE, and the hours we give up to give
DOVER it's carnival.
I have said all I will say on this subject. The matter was closed over one month ago as far as DCAL was concerned. - Mandi i do enough free community
work but am always willing should the need arise, i am not having a personal go i just feel dirty laundry neednt be aired in public. Why give Mrs Rosser and anser on a public forum to add fuel to her already high flames, why not answer
her by post or as i said face to face?
She does seem a handful i grant you!! - Jasper there is only so much we can do. Letters have been sent to Mrs Rosser. Paul B has
chosen to put the letter up without any clarification as to it's accuracy he even admits himself he has not seen the so called postings, however they are all under the members section on 1st page of carnival july 4th and there are no
bad postings there at all.
you are right it does not need to be aired like this, however Paul B, has posted it, if no comments were to follow why put it here without first checking to see what the original problem may or may not
have been in the alledged postings, there are a huge number of inaccuraces, and I will not sit by and watch DCAL, who work bloody hard slated in such a way when what is written is not true. It is that simple.
I will defend the
volunteer on my team to the death - Fair point Mandi, what have you go to say for yourself Paul B? The best thing for all concerned is to ignore Mrs Rosser as she seems to be the
one who is dragging an innocent child thorugh all this gossip and mayhem!!! shame on you!!!
DCLA i think when the storm has settled an account of the whole details should be aired and the outcome for all to see on the forum as it
was so rudly thrust upon us all.
Mandi applause for fighting your corner but now you have to be
the bigger person and let it lie, dont rise to comments on here, mine including. Dignity my dear !!! - There is a world of difference between sorting out a situation and a committee of people gathering to make a decision. There are obviously still grievances on both sides. Letters have
been sent !! Do the decent thing both of you and sit down face to face and sort it out in private. - Is this another example of the forum getting ahead of themselves and
putting something up online without checking first? One thinks back to the Mayoral costs story which was eventually pulled because it was not exactly a fair reflection and provoked a lot of controversy because of that. Are we going to
see this story yanked as well?
Seems like the sort of thing that should have been binned when it arrived at the forum office, not plastered on the web to cause more hurt for a young girl and drag up a story which Mandy says was
finished a month or more ago. - Local view I have no grievance, as I said the matter was closed as far as DCAL were concerned over a month ago.
The letter should
not have been put on this forum without proper investigation first. Paul B could have notified me at any time via mail that it had been recieved and asked if the contents were a true account before storming in and publishing it without
even checking the original postings which are claimed to have inspired the writer. Had he done this he could have recieved private answers to what was put in the letter in order for fair balance and to enable him to make a good decision
as to whether it should have been published on here or not.
- There is no question to answer here. Mrs Rosser is entitled to a view. Jasper jumps the gun in assuming she's
the villian which is more than a tad premature. This letter was directed to Doverforum about our own involvement so its the right course to publish it.
Lets remember though...There is no right and wrong in these cases from either
side, only where you view it from. Everyone is right and everyone is wrong all at the same time.
The newspapers ( The Mercury ) have published a letter from the Rosser family which says much the same..so what's the fuss. The
Rosser's clearly want it published or wouldnt have gone into such detail...so I see it as fair to publish so that everyone's voice is heard...especially as doverforum was involved. Yes it seems fair.
You cant check the content
of letters, its someone's opinion.
This girl was 14 when selected. In my view that is too young and it is inevitable that you will get high mother involvement..which is understandable. It was unfortunate that the poor thing was
stripped of the title just a few weeks into the reign. That would have hurt more I would suggest. Surely somebody with a bit of PR skill could have sat down with the Rosser family and come to a positive conclusion. If it was only a tiff
over criticism then it could have been easily fixed.. - Mandie I dont have to notify you...its not that kind of situation. Im sure the Mercury didnt notify you about their
letter. You get instant response on here anyway so...
Im not saying anyone is right or wrong. You might be right, MRs Rosser might be right...how would I know ? but she is entitled to have her voice heard, not silenced.
- things are getting intressting here.aligations,counter aligations where will it end.
- maybe you should close this
page paul.
the little girl will be the butt of the jokes in school playground.
- Paul the letter in the mercury was not like this at all, you know it
and so do I.
It was mearly a letter of thanks to those who came to carnival.
I did not say you HAD to notify me, however YOU stated you had not checked what had been posted on the forum in the first place. Maybe if you had,
you would not have needed to put this up at all.
You claim to have published it out of fairness. Where is the original posting from DCAL or anyone else that prompted this????????????????????????????? - At 14 the young girl was too young to have been selected and irresponsible of DCAL and her Mother to have allowed it in the first instance. However rightly or wrongly it was done only
to backfire at a later date. The girl must have been deeply upset and probably still is hurting, neither of the two so-called mature adults have taken this into consideration but choose to advertise the whole issue on a public
forum.
Judging by the comments which have been made both parties have shot themselves in the foot. - Are people really saying I should NOT publish a letter from the concerned
mother of a 14 year old deaf child.
Thats what people are saying here. They want her silenced.
But I dont agree. She is entitled to a free say. It happens to be about DCAL but it could be anything. You have your free say on
here regularly Mandie about anything and everything. This is just a one-off.
If I had of come on saying I refuse to publish this letter from this lady, people would be hurling rocks at me along the lines of..that PaulB who does he
think he is, what about our free speech, why should he be deciding what we read, send him back where he came from etc etc yabba yabba yabba...Ive heard them all.
Howard the letter will be there until tomorrow morning as slotted.
Then the space has to be used for something else. And Howard the young girl herself is, according to the letter, happy to be published, happy to be heard. Thats according to her family. If they were to ask me to take it down right now I
would. It would be their choice.
I dont sit in judgement, as I said earlier, how would I know who is right?
But Ive no further comment to add now on this as I think Ive covered my reasoning fairly well. If people read my
posts they can see where Im coming from and again I think its fair to hear both sides. - I have no idea of thre rights and wrongs of this case im sure some would say mrs Rodsser
has a case as some would agree with Mandie.
It is imporant that people are able to post freely, if we were to stop everyone who paulb hadn't personally investigated then we wouldnt have any posts!!!!
I'm all for
freedom of speech even if im 100% against the posting.
I hope these 2 people can get together and settle there diffrences for the good of Dover, we have seen enough of a mockery with 2 carvivals for Dover etc, had hoped it
had all settled down - i think that to post the original letter from mrs rosser was correct paul.
it was a reply to something posted on here.
in the light of the
replies we will have to agree to differ in keeping
it on.
still damned if you do and damned if you don't - Where is it a reply to something posted on here
Howard. One comment from Mr dixon, and one clarrification from me. there were no ins and outs of any situation discussed.
It was all kept very low key which is how it should be. - I have been aware of this situation for a while and I contacted Mandi and Julie Ann and volunteered to negotiate between the 2 parties as both are friends and the offer was declined.
My main concerns were that a young girl
had been sacked and the fact that neither party really did not need the bad press coverage a few days before the carnival.That offer is still open if needed.But I fear it is too late now and the anger that both parties feel is too
deep. - FFS
- bern,fully agree.
- Yes I am back with my Dragon
Boat Team this year, we have a very strong team all very young fit men from work only one old man tand that is me I am gaving away over 30years in age to the next lad in my boat,will I keep up with them?Its a big yes to that, my team are
called Captain Cook and the Fabricators I have been doing this with other teams over the last seven years apart from last year,But in 1999 to 2002 I had my own team from work but because of work at weekends it came to a end, but thanks
to our boss Mr COOK we are back we should do well,I have told them all no drinking till after the last race, Please look out for us we will be in red t-shirts.
Vic Matcham - i do enjoy seeing the newfoundlands in action.
they are seem by some as a good omen.
general custer took one to the battle of little big horn!!!
this throws a degree of doubt to the claim. - That's because there was no sea Howard.
Roger - Vic the dragon boat racing seems very popular so good luck to your team. Your not
doing too bad at all for an oul geezer in there with all the young guys..so well done.
Should be another interesting weekend with lots of variety. Im not sure who is attending the flag raising ceremony at 11am but I will pop along
to that anyway and get a picture or two. - Hope the weather stays fine for the Regatta.Its a super weekend that my family and I have enjoyed over the last few years.Especially
bumping into friends and forumites...ladies be warned if PaulB offers to take you for a quick Pimms..talking of which over here they sell Pimms No 3..A Winter Pimms which I shall look forward to tasting at Yuletide. Hope everyone has a
super day. - What a cute picture of the Newfoundlands, looking forward to seeing them again this year. Looks like the weather will be good this
weekend. - Ohh i didnt realised it was regatta weekend, I am popping home for a hair cut so may pop down and see who i can see!
- I am just about to go put a gold star at the top of the English Class.. and buy my copy of the OED a I understood everything that Gateway posting in the Members Club
said...
tis all jargon , business terms but very impressive none the less. - You have a better grasp of pretentious 21st century jargonese than me then, Jenn! Enjoy
your dictionary. - What beautiful dogs. Bless 'em.
- Jenn I cant remember if we mentioned this before but drop me a
line if you want to join in the Members Club..you were a member before in the old days so wouldnt want you to feel excluded as I see youve been reading the gobbledegook thread. Due to a computer failure a while back most of my old email
addresses are gone. My email: dover7@msn.com
Marek nice one re the Pimms. Hope you are enjoying yours down there in Jersey's desert isle. Weather expected to be good this weekend here in Dover and they are beginning to assemble
sections of the Regatta as we speak! All very exciting. Should be a great weekend here in Dover...so if you live outside Dover and are reading this then pop along and enjoy the
festival. - My Regatta time again, yes will be taking a wander along the front so hope to see lots of familiar faces weather looking good.
Hi Marek good to hear from you (OH
those Pimms.) - Marek - I will raise a glass of Pimms to you this weekend!!
- Thanks Bern what a lovely
thought.My son flies back to Manchester on Sunday prior to his return to Uni and Number 1 son returns from Malta tomorrow so I will be busy taxi-ing (hope thats the correct spelling) but tonight its Rose wine and a curry. I have started
on the Rose......hic - My thoughts and prayers are with them.
- Really sad to hear the news that the powerboat racer died
As said above witnessd all at close hand so thoughts go out to his family. - Absolutely devastating news, the tragic loss of a life in front of our very eyes whilst we were enjoying the racing on such a sunny day here on the Dover seafront. My thoughts
and prayers go out to his family and friends. - Horrific news unfolded before us, after such a lovely day it became apparent as time went by that the outcome
was far worse than originally thought, so tragic R.I.P. - Very saddened to hear the news Our thoughts go out to the gentleman`s family and friends.
- yes very sad news indeed,i was down there at 1pm this afternoon and caught the back end of it.my thoughts are with the family.
- very sad news indeed was down there at around that time
how tragic
thoughts must go to the family - Jean and I
didn't go down there until well after it had happened; were unaware of it until someone at the Yacht Club advised us.
Very sad indeed and our thoughts go out to his family.
The very nature of Power-Boat racing is dangerous
and that is part of the sports attraction - for both the participants and the audiences, but you would never expect this to happen on your own back door.
Tragic.
Roger
- Yes this very sad and when we have the Sunday Regatta songs of Praise at 5.00pm on the sea front it will take on a new meaning to us all I will be singing in
the choir and also thinking of the man and his family at this very sad time please all come along so we can all join in to show the family all of Dover is thinking about them at this time. Vic M - What a very sad time for the family of the deceased, i was also there at the time and feel that the Regatta team, and all those involved acted exactly within emergency guidelines,
there is no text book senario, no one, or no amount of training prepares one for these type of incidents, l know from first hand experience.From a trained eye there was indeed expediency, not to be confused with what some would term lack
of urgency,l witnessed the team working as they arrived on shore.Considering the amount of people watching and speculating,there was a calmness which only comes with professionalism,i commend the team for everything they did and for
skegs in assisting to keep the crowds back.I am not too sure ,that it is appropriate to post this photo of this incident as we have to respect the family that are left in mourning, unless of course they were consulted, dignity and
decorum are paramount.The Regatta team achieved this without a doubt, in the way in which they went into emergency action,and provided the victim,now the deceased with cover, they protected his privacy.
Now i think it is time to leave
the family to mourn, and say a huge thank you to all who worked with this tragic incident.My thoughts are with you all.
May the young man who lost his life Rest In Peace. - Sorry not a member... but an update to a post in the members area regarding kevin carroll...
Kevin passed away on saturday morning at 0210, he live local in Aycliffe and drove
for stagecoach. Kevin had recently turned 50 and also recently married.
An active member of Dover Saints Scooter Club www.doversaintssc.co.uk/forum/ where he was a well liked member amongst his colleagues.
Kevin fell ill
early in the week I believe, I had an email on Friday to advise he was seriously ill, a text sat mornign to advise he was on life support, then another email to advise he had passed away.
Kevin leave a new wife and family
behind... our thoughts are with them
RIP Kevin - lance
if you have any info on K Carrols funeral arrangements would appreciate
them - keith,
keep an eye on www.doversaintssc.co.uk/forum/ they have a space dedicated to kevin at the top of their forum that will have all the upto date info. just
incase I am not about to update here for you.
Lance - Sad news about the chap that died at the weekend , best wishes to his family at this sad time.
- The name of the powerboat racer who died was Alex Edmound age 41 from Isle of Grain.
Although accidents happen in motorised racing all the time I wonder if this will put paid to
powerboat racing in Dover Harbour. It would be a shame if it did, as I thought that that part of the Regatta was something that could be developed more over time.
However the shock of this accident took its toll on the people who were
at the event at the time, those that saw the tragedy unfurl, so whether there is an appetite for powerboat racing here in the harbour anymore I just dont know. - This is the last day for this page but before it departs I would just like to add a note about how marvellous the emergency services were on the day of the tragedy. There were quite a few services there of all sorts and if I
was in a difficult situation, like indeed I have been myself in the past, these are the guys I would want to see coming to my aid. They all did a fantastic job, as lets face it, they have to deal with such traumatic situations. The
Police, The water borne Police, The Harbour Board Launch, The Ambulance people, the Fire Brigade guys, the Kent Air Ambulance...and even the HM Coastguard were in the harbour, and all played their part. So a full compliment of heroic
people came to the scene. Well done to all in the difficult circumstance. - There was also a tragedgy at Kearsney Station ,someone jumped in front of a train .My
late husband worked for British Rail and often had to attend such incidents not nice . - ~What a mindless moron it was to cut the life belt away from the pier, god help us with
people like that around. If the culpritt is found they should be made to do some community service for say ................ 100 hours!!! i think that fair!! - Sue your right, my
brother is a train driver and he told me Saturday afternoon that this had happened. Its not nice at all - I cannot for the life of me fathom out why someone vandalises lifebelts
in this way, its mindless, stupid and downright dangerous. Let us hope that the moron is on cctv and he/she is given at least 3 months community work at the RNLI. - I agree,
such a stupid thing to do, it makes my blood boil. Lets hope they never need a lifebelt! - The death at Kearsney station also involved a stabbing earlier in the day i
believe. - Not much been said about this one! Surprised we havn't seen it on the news or any where!
- some good pics
there, capturing the essence of our coastal town.
the life belt in the water routine is a school holiday standard everywhere.
are there no cctv cameras nearby? - yes i agree poor man who died saturday
- It was a good regatta again had a helicopter ride which was good
- Doesn't that bring the number of deaths over the weekend in Dover, to 3 ?
Kearsney train, Power Boat racer and someone fell off/jumped off the cliff at or near Samphire
Hoe/Shakespeare cliff.
Great celebrations, sad endings.
Roger - And isn't there talk of piracy off Dover shores? Did I hear a story
about a vessel that has disappeared off dover, presumed Pirated? - sure was bern.
- 2 weeks
ago..
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8196640.stm - we would like to send our regards to all of kevins family. from all the staff at stagecoach call center now based in
folkestone but was at dover. - Kelly, Kev's scooter friends were absolutely gutted when they heard the tragic news. Our thoughts are with you all at
this very sad time. It is quite clear from the Dover Saints, South Kent Saints (Ashord) and Thanet Scooterists websites that Kev was a very much liked guy who never had a bad word to say about anyone. I have received a number of
personal messages from members and they have nothing but glowing comments to make. It seems that everyone who met him were touched by his sincerity, friendly nature but above all his sense of humour, dispite his
disability.
Whilst Kev is no longer with us, he will always be remembered by his scooter friends as he made such impression on us all. We all have our special memories of the happy times we spent on club nights at the Royal Oak,
and on rideouts often to meet mates from the other clubs. It was a privilage to have known him. Roger Curd, Dover Saints Scooter Club - I didn't know Kevin but it's very sad to hear of someone dying from Legionnaires disease in that way. It's just one of those awful diseases you can catch but you need to be very unlucky to do so. It's a very sad story
indeed and very brave of his daughter Kelly to write in. Condolences to all the family. - I send my condolences to Kevin's family at this very difficult
time. - well i had a good day today was in broasdstairs went to the folk festival it was good something different
- Us too - nice to have such a laid back event as that and you never hear about any trouble there :)
- I used to love the Broadstairs folk festival. Even
danced there! Do they still have the dragon, with his song?
"I know a friendly dragon,
Clarence is his name.
He lives by the sea at Broadstairs
and now he's back again!" - A Kent company has won this years British Fireworks championship held in Plymouth. This would be a great event for Dover to host with such a fantastic backdrop. 2010 maybe? Who would be
the person to pursue this further? - Localview thats very interesting and you are ahead of the pace and very topical as the next feature up on the editorial above is a
number of pictures of the recent Regatta Fireworks. Should be there by now but am running late on a few items. Not sure who the right person would be to pursue this, but I will at least show shortly just how good a backdrop Dover
is. - Kah & Marmalade, I too remember the Broadstairs folk festival, I love Broadstairs, the Dickens connection & all that, must get over there again
soon.
Hey PaulB, you've surpassed yourself there, so you have, with those splendid firework photos, very snazzy, Dover sure know how to put on a great firework display and what a beautiful backdrop our seafront makes and
especially when there is a twinkling cruise ship in. - absolutely cracking pics of the fireworks.
good idea for paul to trade in his box brownie for
an olympus trip. - My wife and me was in Broadstairs last weekend yes it is avery nice place, I even got a parking ticket, I COULD NOT GET A TICKET out all it done
was return my cash,I went to four parking meters all the same just got my cash back.So we went off for about 1hour on return the officer had done the ticket,I told him what happen he was very good about it aske me to try again when he
was there, it happen again,he then told me "You did not read what it said on the meter you must put your REG, numbers in first he done it for me and out came the ticket, he went on to say that he could not stop the ticket now but would
tell them when he got back to his office,he also old me to send in a representation by post and I might get off with it.That I done and back a letter came they had accepted my story and the penalty was cancelled, if only all the parking
officers were like him, he was a real help. Vic Matcham - I didnt see the dragon but then i looked round the stalls as well
- yes that was nice of him its nice to be helpful to people as its well remembered yes the pictures on here of the fireworks and regatta are really good keep up the good work who ever took
them - Lovely firework photos there, great colours reflecting in the water.
- Well done Vic.
There are
some kindly people in Dover District too; I've had the odd ticket rescinded due to honest mistakes. It was helpful for you that that parking attendant remembered and supported your claim.
Roger
- Thanks for the comments re the fireworks guys. I like these ones myself too I must admit. Notoriously tricky to get good pictures of fireworks, good enough to
be worth reproducing anyway. Kah I always assumed everyone knew it was me taking the pictures by now so clearly I was wrong there, have now added my name to the feature above now to make all clear. Thanks for your
comments.
Always credit the photographers who help me out of course and when their name isnt on something its always mine. That was the general idea anyway.
Jeane yes always nice to have them over the water. But...for the
many on the seafront watching, these ones would not have been seen over the water, because they fired them off from the beach. From my vantage point they are though. The other week at the Bleriot event the fireworks were set off from the
pier so a full 'over the water' effect was achieved for the public on the seafront. - Hey Paul
Just seen the message you left and in all honesty I dont pop on
very often so thanks for the offer of joining the club again but I dont think I would be able to contribute very often!
Shame I missed the fireworks.. and gutted I didnt see many faces down at the regatta whilst I was looking
beautiful for a change.
Jenn - Thats fine Jenn..if you dont get on much now its the best thing but you can always contribute on this page as and when. Didnt want you
to feel excluded as you were a member in the old days. Yes its true re bumping into people at the Regatta, the bigger the events get the less people you see. - PAULB
THats your excuse for not speaking to me then, large crowds lol - Ah Keef youve got it in one! Never spotted you at all. Too many peeps enjoying the
frivolities got in the way. I only had eyes for the Burger Bar as well! lol! But will catch up with you soon! - Hi All
KCC have deposited plans at DDC in respect of
major alterations to the Seafront/Promenade under the Seachange scheme.
The application (DOV/09/00729) is available on the DDC website and shows full details of the planning application.
Certainly it is "artistic"
landscaping but it would be interesting to gather this forums users views as at DHB public meetings a strong voice was made to increase our beach area which has been reducing over the past years. This scheeme seems to reduce the area by
introducing a "shingle garden/path".
Our seafront is a major attraction for many successful events and will this artistic landscaping restrict such events in the future as the promenade width/area also seems to be reduced with
raised flower beds.
We desperately require regeneration funding for the town but at present the seafront/promenade is a functional and, thanks to DHB as it is their land, kept clean.
The Seachange "Quango" consists of
SEEDA, KCC,DDC,DHB and English Heritage. It is interesting that the first Seachange funding was for the new English Heritage Visitor Reception building at Dover Castle and if this current scheme goes ahaed (at I suspect a high cost ?
£1m) will mean the DHB have funding for a renewed promenade that they could possibly not justify under normal commercial expenditure criteria.
There are many other areas of Dover that need funding to remove eyesores of
derelict/redundant buildings etc and Forum viewers will have many ideas, certainly at present it looks as if only the "Quango" members are receiving anything from the Seachange pot.
For a starter if it is a "beach project"
that is the order of the day perhaps money being spent to improve Shakespeare beach/Admiralty Pier thus giving an amenity that has declined over the years.This has been suggested at various meetings.
Also there is need for
cultural and youth facilities for Dover Town that could possibly secure Seachange funding if the will is there.
Anyway forum viewers do make your comments and do look at the planning application details on the DDC website - i have seen the exhibition at the library and thought that the plans were an improvement on what we have now.
with regard to town regeneration, the problem in the main, is
that match funding by someone has to go with the seachange money. - Thanks Howard
Yes match funding is the key to projects. Dover has very few
business/organisations that can make a financial commitment. This is the problem of towns suffering deprevation and if private capital is not available then the local authority (Town/District/County) should take the initiative.
For example if we look at Hastings with their regeneration and general cleaning up of the town has, I understand,been achieved with match funding from the Town/Local and County Council.
- Paul
Its all ok to say let the kids play and we all did silly things, but we now have shelter hopping, and garage roof hopping, all very very dangerous.
It will all
be ok until (hopefully not) one of the youths is injured or worse.
Just recall that poor tennager in thanet who dived into what he thought was deep water in fact it wasn't but also had hidden rocks and he is now permanently
disabled.
unable to fend for himself,unable to feed himself.
Very sad but avoidable - I had an email from a couple who live in East Cliff about this very subject
- jumping in to the sea, whilst not appreciating the dangers. The email also contained information about broken glass and other litter that is strewn along the beach and not cleaned up as quickly as it could and should be.
I was
about to write to the Harbour Board and then thought that I might be treading on someone else's toes, so contacted Nigel as it is his ward.
He has now taken up the mantle and written to the Harbour Board and steps are now being
taken to stop this exciting but very dangerous activity - and clear up the rubbish too.
Roger - Roger, your faith in the harbour board to deal
with the problem of rubbish on the beach is sadly misplaced. They use the tides to dispose of the rubbish. After the regatta they left rubbish strewn all over the beach and promenade and removed what wasn't blown away the next day. The
seagulls were having a field day. Bins overflowing and food left by the side of the road from the food and other traders made it look like a scene from a war zone. Believe me I'm not exagerating. Even during the regatta I spotted some
of their workers strolling up and down the prom with mostly empty black sacks. I asked them to clean up the beach instead but sadly this fell on deaf ears.
I have never seen the beach and promenade so grubby. It's bad enough during
the rest of the year but this years was beyond anything I could possibly describe without swearing. - It does feel like DHB is the seriously weak link here. Dover has so much and
it's been a fabbo Summer, but DHB do not live up to their responsibilities. - The Harbour Board are only interested on pound notes, no money to be made from cleaning the
beach! - Just like to point out it is not the D.H.B.that put the rubbish on the sands it is the public bins are put there by the D.D.B.to put it all in ,i say no more.
- Vic, that is like saying it's not the Police who cause crime it's the public. The logic of your argument is that the Police should wash their hands of
solving crime. Also why were no extra bins provided by the harbour board? We're they expecting only a handful of people to turn up to the regatta? I say no more sounds a sensible position from your
perspective. - that has genuinely shocked me about the litter being taken out to sea.
we all know what is does to sealife and general wildlife.
we also know now how far
a tesco's carrier bag can travel.
if a company accidentally or intentionally pollutes a river, they are taken to court and fined heavily.
does this not apply to the sea? - I did not say that the DHB should not clean it up afterwards but if joe public had taken it away with them it would have helped.I went round after my team left the sands
after the boat race and just picked the mess up left behind and took it to a bin which i must say was full up, so i had to put it longside it. - Howard, I am not
suggesting that it is deliberate policy to use the tides to remove any rubbish that is dumped on the beach. I am saying that because it appears that beach clearance does not hold the highest priority the inadvertant effect is that some
of this rubbish ends up in the drink. This is why we have a diligant fellow who regularly cleans up the market square and the shopping arcade. Without him the town would look much poorer. More power to his elbow.
It is vital,
especially during the summer months when international visitors grace the seafront that the utmost effort is put into the general appearance. This includes more regular and intensive efforts to keep the place tidy. More litter bins
provided. Perhaps some notices to tell the public not to drop litter or feed the gulls which tends to be a regular habit by some . This only risks the spread of disease from these seabirds.
It's not rocket science
really. - sorry i didnt know who took the pictures dont go on this site much paul b only occasionally but they are good x
- Regarding the kids leaping into the drink......I have ceased to worry....where are their parent(s) guardian ,carer or who ever the hell is in charge.I used to be concerned but now I think..what the hell...so they kill
themselves and if their parents or natural birth mothers or15 yr old mum or uncle tom cobbly doesn't give a flying......then why should I? What a sad state of affairs.
As for the rubbish debate I totally agree with Phil more bins
needed at functions and Vic you are correct when you say that individuals should be responsible for their own rubbish..but sadly some people don't give a toss. - as a
tombstoner in my youth, what is wrong with it? jump off of something into some water..... is this not what we celebrate the success of Tom Daley for? He jumps off something into water!
Yet again it's the do-gooders and fun-
prohibiting brigade that spoil the fun of the kids. "It's dangerous" some say. How many people die of this each year? Someone died recently playing cricket, where was the call for that to be banned? Kids will tombstone with or
without permission, why don't places just put up a sign saying "rocks below, no jumping" but have at least one place where "no rocks" is visible.
Untill a 12" fence is erected around any jetty/pier/etc kids will always
tombstone, rather than remove their pleasure, why not enhance it and give them somewhere safe to do it?
as a final thought, how many times on here have i read about "kids dmaging this or that" or "being a nuisance", and the
time that they do have fun, someone spoils it. I'd rather they had fun than caused trouble myself. - For people who wanted information
on the arrangements for kevin carrol :-
A service will be held at River Methodist Church, Lewisham Road, Dover on Sunday 23 August 2009 starting at 2pm.
the funeral itself will be held on the 25th at Barham Crem. We will be
leaving the house at 11.30am (aycliffe)
Hope that helps
- Regarding the tides carrying the rubbish away from the beach. To do this, it would have to be carried out
through the Eastern or Western entrances by the currents. I have never ever seen any rubbish passing out through either entrance so I suspect that this supposition is incorrect. Come to that, I have never seen any rubbish floating in
the bay in the first place although perhaps somebody more observant can put me right on that. - Regarding tombstoning. Boys will be boys. If they didn't have the guts to
do this then they wouldn't have the guts to do anything else either and the future would be bleak. They are going to do it come what may and I suggest that any popular point known to have dangerous underwater hazards should be clearly
marked with a large sign including a gory depiction of some unfortunate lad who has come a cropper in similar circumstances. - LANCE
thanks for info will be able to
get to sunday service but working tuesday
thanks for info - ALL
I have no problem with youths having fun, and run a club myself that includes many youth.
But
when its clear there are rocks below, and seeing that poor youth in Thanet(who also thought it was fun) is now a cripple
All i wanted to do was to warn of the serious dangers, far from a do gooder, of course this advice like any
other can be ignored.
thats all it is advice, maybe if others saw the life that poor chap now leads you may come to a diffrent conclusion
but advice it remains - I heard
on KMFM this afternoon that they have picked up on the Tombstoning thread - Doverforum - finger on the pulse. Well Done PaulB - well i agree marek if kids do dangerous things
on the heads be it if they havent got enough sense not to do dangerous stunts why should we be bothered about it or anyone else they get what they deserve if they hurt themselfs. - sadly kim, it can be their heads that they land on.
- Kids will do dangerous things because that is what kids do, and it is up to adults sometimes to protect
them from their own impulsiveness. Teenage is a naturally risk-taking adventure time for our kids, their hormones dictate it, and their brains undergo chemical changes that indicate a reduced perception of risk and reduced capability to
resist impulse. It is a chemical thing!!! It is too easy to say It's their Own Fault, and, if I may say so, irresponsible in an adult. - Just for your information, Gwynn Prosser
has been up to Britannia Coaches in Dover for a photo shoot with the company for all drivers passing the new CPC course alongside with the NVQ.
Its great to see a local business at the forefront of it all, Well Done Britannia,
bear them in mind if you need a 14 or 16 seater mini coach for anything as the prices are very reasonable and the services is impecciable.
- Congratulations to all the
Britannia drivers on passing your CPC's. - Yes well done Britannia walked passed the old wolworths this evening see Peacocks looking ready for the off, nice to see that
corner in use again. - thats why i said it howie lol yes tomorrow they open the new peacocks so i shall be having a look see what they have got on offer
- pity currys is shutting its sad to see shops closing in dover
- It's very sad when shops close Kah. This wasn't because of the
Dover branch's poor trading though, but taken at a much higher level.
I believe that they are closing all these small Town-centre shops and concentrating on larger "out-of-Twwn" ones.
Or maybe this is another one where the
lease comes up for renewal and the Landlord puts the rent up beyond what people are able or prepared to pay, so then the Town loses that shop and ends up with lots of closed shops, the Landlord gets no rent and we are all the
poorer.
Roger - just found out Britannia Coaches are the first company in the UK to pass the new Goverment CPC Course so its a bigger pat on
the back for them. Its good to see a local company have some recognition, especially in these troubled times and the state of our high street.
Well Done Britannia !!! - I did not know this was coming up on the Dover Forum, but I am glad it has,at this time I can not ad much more to this than I have already said, most of you know I have done a post on women boxing on the members page,I am
waiting to see which way it goes before I say any more, I would just like to add I know some of you will be thinking it is Matcham again trying to make headlines, in this case it is not true there is a great risk to young girls and ladys
in Boxing,anyway please go ahead and have your say about it And I will take aback seat for now ,but again please keep to the topic .
Thank You I remain yours Faithfully Vic Matcham - sorry Vic I have to disagree with you,yes boxing is a demanding sport that can have dangerous results look at Muhammed Ali to see what thumping your head does
to you,but.....
Women aren't forced into boxing they take it on knowing the dangers as you did when you took it on,and it 's up to the women to decide if they want to do it.There are many sports that are dangerous but don't ban
women Racing cars, Mountaineering,riding horses can all be dangerous but we don't ban them or women from doing them either,I can't say that I will be watching it as I have got front row seats with Howard and Posh Barry for the ladies
volleyball. - I Would like to know where you got that picture and when I can not think when or where,i do not mind it being put on the forum?Vic M
- I have already said this once young boys and now girls go into the gym at 9 to 10years old and can have their first bouts at 11years old at that age they do not know or think of the
risk and by the time they are 16years old they could have had alot of bouts and the damage could have already been done,and a unborn baby has rights to but who is going to stand up and say so,well I will for one.
Vic M - There is also the side what would happen if a Injury claim came into a club and what about compensation if at a later date ayoung girl is told sorry but you can not have a
baby because at some time when you was boxing when you was younger you got a injury which will stop you having a baby,so that claim ends up in a trainers hand, I know that trainers do take out legal cover but would it cover that.There
comes a very big hole in compensation cover in boxing. It all needs to be looked at again .When I was a trainer I was told to take in young girls and women with the view of them one day boxing .I said no and would still say no today,Do
the training thats O.K. but that is all. - hello john its kim hows u?
- I wonder if anyone can help me im looking
for sponsers to sponser me to swim the channel can anyone help - that should be an interesting sight kim.
you will never drown, you are renowned for your buoyancy.
- You could try the Channel Swimming Association (CSA) or the CSPF (the Channel Swimming Pilots Federation). Both help cross-channel swimmers, they may
be able to guide you.
I don't have their website address to hand but you'll find them on the internet.
Roger - Vic the photograph
above was one of the ones we took here on Doverforum but I myself cant remember the venue. It may have been on the night we visited the youth club in Clarendon. Barry W-S took it and he might remember more about it when he comes on
later. Its a good shot and of course we have it on file here. - Would you want to meet this man on a dark night .Maybe we should all take up boxing
- Vic the photograph was taken at Dover Town Council offices, I think it may have been a Fairtrade event or something of that 'ilk'. A great boxing pose.
- Just to let you know the panto is today (details below) and tickets priced £3 are for sale on the door (doors open 6.45pm for a 7pm start)
It Ain't 'Alf Dover Dad
A
Pantomine & Variety Night!
Friday 21st August 2009
7pm Dover Town Hall
Tickets £3
For tickets contact
01304 204211 Or 07982181977 or write to 8 St David's Avenue, Aycliffe, Dover CT17 9HU
Hellfire Corner Returns to
Dover For One Night Only!
Featuring Music by Deal based band
The Dealers
And music by Ebony & Harley Johnson
For more information visit us:
- thanks roger ive got there site yes howie i have two real good floats to help me if i get into trouble lol
- Paulb
great to see all these achievers, on a
diffrent kind of youth note, I was realy humbled once when asked by the agencies to be a judge for the tri angle awards.
Kids there had realy serious illness' or were looking after relatives with realy serious illness's and we
had to judge a winner!!!
Very hard to do as they were all winners to me!!!! certainly pulled at my heart strings!!!!
Shows you the other side of life, people who have a lot to cope with, but dont complain and just get on with life,
IM PROUD TO HAVE BEEN A JUDGE BUT MORE SO IM PROUD TO HAVE BEEN THERE AND PROUD OF THEM ALL - Well said Keef there..excellent post.
Yes must be very hard to judge
something like that as you are right, they are all winners. I went once to the Tri Angle Awards so know what you mean.
Great to see the kids generally doing well...lots of cracking results again. I havent had any press releases in
from any other school so dont know what happened across the board but once again DGGS does the town proud. Lets hope the other schools did well too. - I think its time to show
all the POSITIVES youth do for which there are many.
Apart from the school results we have a number of clubs across the District that are run by youth for youth with minimal adult supervision.
My own club (Town and pier
activities club)was born out of lack of action and lots of talk, now it flourishes we take kids who in general wouldnt get a hope of getting into a team, but its not about the winning its about the being able to take part in the first
place!!
our girls side even got to semi finals of cup thats some achievement when only the season before they were losing 8 or 9 nil every week! but they stuck in there with excellent coaching by G Cowan.
Youth today get a bad
name, but the positives should be highlighted so much more!!!
A little niggle if I may, as the welfare officer for the club and having to pay every year £70 hard earnt to the K.C.F.A. with little return, im now being told I have
to attend a workshop in maidstone!!! how many volunteers will this turn off????
and i hope theres not a cost attached, our dosh is very limited and needs to be spent wisely.
- As Keith said, it is highly commendable that the young are achieving so well; hope the numbers grow and we have youngsters with higher aspirations than some beforehand.
Well done all.
Roger - ROGER
Sadly wot sells papers is negative stories, it would be so much nicer if the local paper concentrated on what it says on the front page(community
newspaper) instead of finding fault in anything people try to do to make Dover a better place.
RANT OVER
Back to the subject, I love the delight at being at the sports centre each friday and watch as our kids prosper from
having little knowledge to the expect coaching of Mr Cowan and watch them flourish.
The delight of playing in an arena they would never have dreamed of being in.
Few seasons ago when losing 8 or 9 -1 the delight when they scored
it was like there cup final just scoring a goal!!!
but nurtured the club is, a work #away with these kids we did now many have flourished into realy good players, now other bigger clubs are watching them.
When you think this club
was set up purely to get the kids off the street it certainly has moved on.
Then look at those in the Army cadets/Scouts cubs etc etc
the list is endless all achieving thats what we should be shouting from the
rooftops.
Its so easy to be negative - Keith, We do print positive stories.In fact have done many double page spreads on TryAngle awards and school projects at Astor and
Archers and many brave kids who are achieving things despite quite serious illnesses. But you have to read the paper to know that. - I did not last long anyway the girls are
better looking than me. - Kath
Please don't start me off, best we just stick to the subject of the great achievements of the
youth - what a lovely day again today
- yep boiling in the crabble sunshine watching the whites pick up 3
more points - Just a comment on the assumption from Keith that the Dover Express (and presumably he means other local papers too) only print negative stories.
How would
you know this Keith if you never buy a local paper ?
If it's newsworthy - good news or bad, I'm sure they'd print it.
Roger - On
youth Im hearing yet another club is trying to start up in aycliffe to take kids off the street, They again will be pleading with the planning dept to get a portacabin on the Recreation ground on Old Folkestone Road, you will recall the
council refused our club, but we do wish this club well, and will support them wherever we can.
Its a real problem, on the one hand we have kids being taken off the street and to the planning dept refusal to help on
this.
On the other this club as we did wants to enter the East Kent youth league but cant without changing rooms, thus the need for the portacabin.
Why does it have to be so complicated?
Does the council realise these
clubs are doing the job of the council which isnt providing but we do it on a voluntary basis!!! - ROGER
I would rather this got back to the subject of the good
things the youth do.
just very quickly on local media, I have never had issue with the Mercury.
I used to buy the express every week up until about 2/3 years ago for reasons iv highlighted here in postings before
today.
Im not alone in this Cllr J Morgan an indy cllr has taken the same route of no longer buying the paper, so it isnt just me.
I know others who are less well known who have also made the same decision, its all about
choice.
But I would rather talk up the youth and those doing such a good job in our District long may they continue
- I would like to congratulate the
DCAL girls on yet another awesome night at Sandwich Carnival yesterday
1st Rosebud Queen
2nd Senior Queen of Queens
2nd Princess of princesses (Sofia)
2nd Junior Princess Pairs
3rd fancy dress (Jorja)
This is
just the latest in a string of awards this year. Well done to all our talent youngsters. Dover should be proud of the wonderful talents of the youth of Dover, from singers, and dancers, carers, school awards, sports, the list is endless
- MANDIE
Another great example good on them.
lets have loads more from all walks of life. - What must I
do to get my face on the who is who page,I am a good looking man,much better than Ian,come on now lets have a vote on it,should old Vic Matcham have his face on Who is Who or not, I think I would win hands down,and next year lets have a
Good looking Grandad Mr Dover long side Miss Dover. - No vote needed Vic, we see enough of you really we do
- VIC
Please we dont need to see you i pictures i have nightmares when i see you in real life lol - Congratulations Mandie, well done to all of them.
As you rightly say, Dover should be (is) proud of them.
Keith, I support what you and others do to help the young, whether through football, other sports or
general activities.
I also appreciate what you say about planners and planning and the obstacles put in your way.
What is the actual problem with the portakabin - location, size or something else ?
Roger - ROGER
To save you going over my posting I will outline it again.
We did run an 11 a side boys/girls team in the East
kent youth league, one of there rules was to have changing rooms.
We played for 1 season without but couldnt go into a second season so we throughout this time attempted to engage the council in putting a portacabn on site.
We
tried this in a number of ways,
1; writing to the council explaining all we do, and even having
the full support of Charles walker(recreation officer DDC)
and the safety unit(anti social behaviour unit or
whatever
its called these days)
2; Spoke directly with officers at Whitfield
3; Had meetings with planning officers on site saying we will
site the potacabin out of sightlines at bottom of slope
or anywhere they want, and paint it any colour they want.
All this fell on deaf ears, we kept being told the recreation ground was on land of outstanding natural beauty so portacabin cant go on there.
Whilst we would
appreciate that argument the lorry park should it ever come in that area would also be built in the same area of outstanding natural beauty, we realise the pressing need for the lorry park, but it should be all or none.
The
planners wanted us to produce plans at a ccst of hundreds of pounds to us plus the costs to submit them to the planners(bearing in mind we are volunteers and our funds are very limited) and i asked what chance would we have in these
plans getting through, and was told very little!
As a very small club we could not afford kids monies to be wasted in such a way so we decided not to continue with that project.
It is a shame because the Recreation dept was
fully behind us, on the ground we got it marked out, goals put up, nets, grass cut, and it was fully appreciated the work g cowan and I do, but sadly the planners were showing no signs of change.
We even stated we would be happy
to take over the lease of the ground, cut the grass ourselves, mark the pitch ourselves, look after the ground ourselves, but would need to the portacabin to continue.
We had no alternative but to withdraw from the league in the
end, we now run 3 sides down the sports centre each friday night.
Hope this explains Roger i'm happy to speak with you further if you require any more information.
I understand another parent frustrated at the lack of
use of the ground is going to again attempt to go to the planners and we will support him, but hope things have changed.
At the end of the day Roger we take off the street every friday at least 21 kids just our sides alone,
there are roughly 28 to 30 clubs each season each having 7 kids so just see how many kids are occupied!!!!!
The recreation ground portacabin would have meant we could have continued with our saturday morning training sessions, and
not have to carry equipment from Kearsney to Aycliffe every week!!!!!
We could also have continued in the Youth league which would have taken up to 15 kids off the street every Sunday
Sadly not to
be.
But, hey the club will go on forever, and even though we are disappointed, we will again this season be entering the Dover 5 a side league with 2 or 3 sides every friday evening from Sept to May.
and the Bingo
each first tuesday of the month in the church hall old folk road.7pm
We will always provide as many services as the council will allow
keith
Town and pier activities club
Working for the Town and pier
Ward - Keith how negative of the planners .When you think of the years portacabins have been used at schools .Look at the lovely Yellow building on a hill not far from you
.
Its time the planners worked with the other departments at DDC .
I know how difficult it was dealing with them over housing plans .I think they have for too long not taken into consideration the benefits to a community . - It was such a lovely day yesterday was lovely down the beach best place to be in hot weather
- Keith
It is sad, but
please remind me when I am back and I'll follow it up.
If you'd like to email me, so much the better
Roger - hopefully Roger you have all
the details below, if you need anything further let me
keith - Dover I'm sure can learn a lot from them and other English Towns, but will the planning dept allow
them? - Blimey
Kevins funeral today what a place to try to get to - I am lucky to have been to Nausicaa
myself and what a great place, its not a patch on the likes of Seaworld in Florida but is good in its own right and is on the doorstep. You should all go even if its only for the mussel in wine that you can eat in the square - yummy
!!! - great pictures paul, especially from the aquarium.
just one small thing, i am sure that the church up in the castle is saxon. - Ah yes indeed Jasper re the food. Glad you enjoyed Nausicaa too. never been as far as Seaworld myself. But yes Nausicaa just a short haul now thanks to the new LD Lines
service which helps access greatly.
Many Thanks Howard for that . Have changed it to Saxon as wasnt quite sure to begin with...so all info greatly appreciated. - Just on
sea worlds in general Ipopped down to Hastings mon and popped into seaworld aquarium and they usually have sharks, but there were none cos they were re developing the building.
Thats not to say the rest wasn't superb cos it was
and lots of visitors, good time there,
- SUE/JOHN G/ROGER/PAULW/PAULB Or anyone
As a daily user of the train line between Dover and Shepherdswell does anyone
have the details of the proposed severe cutbacks in services on this line to allow the flow for the high speed rail link.
I will be using this bit of line a lot more in the future
Does anyone have the details?
keith - Excellent photos, love the sharks!
- I dont have the detail .I understand they are on the
webb site .Im sure John will come to the rescue .Personally I think its a shame this service is being cut. There are people who travel on this route to work at the Care homes in and around River. - paulb,looking forward to my shark finn soup and bread.french of course.
- For
Keith
www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/index.php/cms/pages/view/262 - Really lovely set of picture's Briony all I can say is you better watch out Dad!!
- SPONSER NEEDED TO SPONSER ME TO SWIM THE CHANNEL £450 if anyone wants to or knows anyone that would please get in touch with me at doverstar@aol.com please
- Hi Keith
Aellia has given you the website details.
For Dover to London that will have the High Speed Service this will operate once a hour taking between 65 and 70 minutes to St
Pancras.
The "local" service will also be once per hour to Charing Cross but will stop at all stations and take 2 hours against the current 90 minutes or so.
Therefore for those going to London for the West End
(Theatre/Shopping) will be worse.
I went into National Express website and taking the cost saving the coach may be a better option in the future as the High Speed service will have a fare premium. - PAT/Aalia
Just looked it all up, it looks to me like from
shepherdswell to Dover AND VICE VERSA there will be an hourly
service isnt that what happens
now?
Are there any major diffrences?
Is it correct theres a public meeting being held in shepherdswell t/moz night if your aware do you know time/venue
- Great photos and a great read PaulB. I always love visiting Boulogne it has great memories for me. I took my dear old Dad there for a visit soome years ago. We sat in the Hotel de Globe on the Rue de Pitpots and had a meal.He
suddenly turned me and said" You know son (he could never remember which one of his many sons I was) this is the first time I have stepped on French soil since 1941 only then I didn't have time to sit down and have a nice meal....as
the Germans were everywhere by then" It was quite moving at the time. So thanks for the above and I look forward to the rest of your story and pictures about your day out in
Boulogne. - Thanks Marek, glad you are enoying things. I hadnt intended to write any stuff about Boulogne at all as was desperate for a few days off..but it sort of happened
around me as the place was of real surprising interest and now easily reachable for all Dover citizens and at low cost. So it wrote and pictured itself in a way. I was struck by the marvelous 'al fresco' nature of it all and wondered
why more of this outdoor dining cant be done here. The climate is the same.
I say low cost , but of course your pound/euro exchange rate makes things a little more expensive at the moment but well I guess you cant have
everything.
Have some pictures of the churches and the old town to follow in due course. - I see a marquee has appeared on the old East Kent garage site. What is that for
then? - Puzzled I believe there is an Olympiad dance event on there. I havent seen anything official about it or at least I dont remember seeing anything official, so dont know
who is taking part and so on. But I can safely say its an Olympiad dance thingy as heard through the grapevine. - helloooooooooooooooo
- 29th August 2009
Dance Dover
To be held in the Market Square, Dover from 10am - 21.00. Dance/ Drama activities
Thanks PaulB I assume they are using the marquee for
storage/changing etc. There was me thinking it was the new ASDA store - the event has been emblazoned across our big screen for some time.
i was collared by a councillor
recently, he might have been called nigel, that reminded me of the event and others.
hard to keep track this summer, so many things have been going on.
let us hope this is what the future holds for dover. - The dance event may have been emblazoned on the big screen for some time but this will only be seen by people who already visit the town. Surely there needs to be some kind
of out of town advertising to attract people into the centre. I work with numerous people in the Dover area and the large majority cannot remember the last time they went into the town centre. Dover FC have the right idea they have just
erected a large sign inconjunction with TESCO on the exit roas of the supermarket promoting their home games. This will surely be viewed by far more people from Dover and the surrounding area than the pedestrians in Dover. If people are
averse to advertising with TESCO (I get the feeling a lot of people on here despise them) then advertise on the DDC sites on the roundabout. - It has also been on the DDC
website for weeks, I am sure has gone out on DDC e-mails and has been in both local papers for a few weeks also.... - What percentage of the local population read the
DDC website or receive emails from them? Do they know this information is available there? Local newspapers are a good way to promote events but their sales are diminishing and tend to have quite specific reader types.
- Localview - what happened before websites and e-mails and if people didn't get newspapers ? Word of mouth ?
Unfortunately we can't expect the council to come
around and to knock on our door and tell us about events happening !! - Keith
The problem id that there are two trains and hour at work and school times. Morning
and afternoon. It's going to mean that children will be hanging around for longer. - I'm told that the boat in the above picture was on its way to Ramsgate,when it
started to take on water.
the Lifeboat crew took 7hours to keep it afloat its now in the Harbour waiting for the Coastguard to do a safety check.
The lifeboat crew certainly cover a wide range of jobs, what would we do without
them. - Hats Off to the RNLI, they are a superb organisation who put their lives on the line to save others and all on a voluntary basis. Its good to see the less
dangerous maritime work they take on daily. - Barry
I totally agree with you.
Without these fantastic voluntiers many lives would be lost.
As a maritime
town we know how cruel the sea can be and may all the RNLI people be proud of what they do it is so appreciated.
- Scotchie - what happened before websites and emails?
the answer is there was a community and things spread through word of mouth. I am not advocating the council knocking on everyones door. Just asking questions and trying to think of constructive ways in getting the message through to a
wider market (e.g sign a Tesco or on roundabouts). Recently somebody asked why there are very few new members joining this forum - it could be that a large majority of people are always so defensive and not open to constructive comments.
The whole site seems like a large clique with the same old people attending events appearing in photos and repeatedly bringing in their political arguments. If this is what you want the site to be then you have achieved you aim - if not
then a drastic rethink is required. - i think that in the case of the dancing, there is little more that the council can do.
i have been heavily critical of both ddc
and dtc for their lack of communication skills, this time the screen has added to the advertising of this event.
the days of word of mouth are mostly gone and people get their info from websites, local press and radio.
i think
that lv is being unfair about the dover forum site being a clique,most of the event pics are of councillors who are in a small minority here, it is just that people want to photograph those with a title.
our local press shows
this.
i agree about the political argument issue, new ideas would be welcome.
it is just a matter of e mailing the forum fuhrer with ones details
and "bobs your uncle". - im a singer dancer and actress
- The George Cross for Dover Campaign
“It 'Ain't 'Alf Dover Dad”
Pantomime
Friday 21st August 2009
Over 200 people packed into Dover's town hall last Friday (August 21st) night as the George Cross for Dover Campaign strutted onto the boards for a fund-raising
pantomime and variety night. This was a first time experience for many of the actors involved. The opening performance was by Deal based up and coming folk-indie duo “The Dealers” who performed a number of their favourites and tracks
from their recently released album called “Charcoal on Black Paper.” These included their folk and country style songs“The Broken Chain” and “Lost Keys” which the audience thoroughly enjoyed as they clapped
along.
Afterwards the performance continued with the play based in a Prisoner of War Camp in wartime Germany and four “panto dames” came out to roars of laughter as they sung the “Siegfried Line”. As the play was set
around the concept of a “Variety Night” and an escape plot the audience were surprised to see actors crawling through the audience who were in fact prisoners escaping the German SS officers who were in control of the P.O.W.
Camp.
The clothes supplied by various sources including the shop Sema4, Blackfish Academy and local people were extremely authentic. The George Cross for Dover Campaign would like to thank these people for allowing us
to use their memorabilia to bring the stage to life. Veterans who were in the audience told the organisers the show really bought the spirit of wartime alive especially how people in a prisoner of war camp would entertain themselves. The
campaign thank the veterans for their support.
In the middle the panto spirit extended throughout the audience as the British Officers and a prisoner got the crowd chanting “boo”, “hiss” and “he's behind you” at the
Germans much to the satisfaction of Justin Ramsay and Colin MacDonald, the actors playing the roles. The audience favourite was especially Schultz played by Barry Evans. Even though he played a German he managed to steal the show with
audience members including Monty Dixon saying he “was a fantastic comedy act. Schultz kept up the pace of the play and really got into the part.” Other audience favourites included the Staying Alive sketch where one prisoner, played by
Richard Harman strutted onto stage as John Travolta and the town hall glistened in the light of the glitter ball as the Bee Gees echoed throughout.
Jasmine Henley, from Dover said “even the back ground had action
going on. You just did not know where to look on stage. Churchill and Hitler were waving through the window as the audience shouted at the German soldiers 'their behind you'. It was a fantastic night out”.
The
interval of the night provided a chance for more music by Dover duo “Ebony and Harley Johnson” who performed a number of songs including tracks by The White Stripes and “White Cliffs of Dover” much to the delight of those who have
memories of Hell-fire Corner. Members of the audience stated 'Ebony and Harley had fantastic voices and the people of Dover want to see them at more events'. It was agreed however that they should not have been performing in the
interval as they have unique musical talents. Two audience members from Kingsdown stated “It's been the most fun we've had in ages. Although we enjoyed the play and music our favourite part was the mistakes and ad-libbing which made
our night as we were laughing all the time”.
A successful raffle was also provided by the campaign which included prizes donated by Baguette Ella, local musicians Kaz and Louise Orfila, gifts from Curiosity's of Dover, a Sky
Charter helicopter tour and a cream tea at the newly opened Mandy's tea rooms in Bench Street plus many more. The campaign was overwhelmed by all those who donated prizes and are grateful they all support the
cause.
The campaign wish to thank all those involved, the volunteers both acting and backstage, the lighting by Blackfish Academy's Louise and Alex Miller, the people who donated costumes, props, the court of Dover
Carnival Association for their involvement, The Dealers, Ebony and Harley Johnson, everybody else involved, and especially the audience for their fantastic participation.
However the play was hindered by technical
issues in the first half the pantomime was saved by the success of the musical acts, the comedy and audience participation as well as the evacuees waving flags in the musical finale of 'We'll Meet Again' as local school children waved
and smiled. This has showed that Dover is behind the George Cross for Dover Campaign and all ages are supporting the groups aim to create a memorial garden for the civilians in Dover.
- ENDS -
Terry
Cleaver
Media Representative
George Cross for Dover Campaign
- Well done Tez with that report - many thanks. Glad everybody
seemed to enjoy the night despite the minor technicalities. Good luck to the George Cross for Dover Campaign. - good to see the pics from chapter 8, i never knew
the young lady that died, but she certainly left her mark on people.
quite an original idea to name a bar after her. - Many thanks to Tony, Liz and all
involved for such a wonderful evening. We met some lovely people there last night and here's to a great future for Jessie's Bar. - Great evening at
Chapter Eight. They have done an excellant job with the new bar and Tony and Liz were great hosts. We were very honoured to be there last night and it speaks volumes for Tony that he would name the bar after Jessica.
- For a council that lost millions of poll tax payers money by investing in overseas banks it would appear that it's 'Carry on Spending Regardless' starring The Butcher,
Bill OnHayton and Nigel MinesalargeoneCollor.
Was this spend really necessary in an economic downturn or am I just being a Grumpy twit? Pity the rebuild didn't go to Barwicks who are closing their doors after 200 years of
operation. Well thats how long Vics been working for them .... - A very big difference indeed to what was the council offices in Castle Street, covering a wide range of
things in bright clean suroundings.
I'm sure it will be well used by the people in Dover.
- The Gateway is a much improved facility .Do you recall when it
was in Masion Diue Gardens?It has been a long progress of steadily improving access for all residents .Advisors on hand etc .The Town Council were moved from Castle Street then we had DDC at Your service ,then when the adjacent building
became vacant The Gateway was formed .My main concern the corporate colour was changed again .
I also note the Town Councillor For Castle WArd And The KCC member notebably our lovely Roger Frayne was there .Fair Doos Give him
credit its not all Nigel Collor .I see Cllr Kit Smith was there not sure what hat he was wearing .Meamwhile us less mortals are not even aware when these things are happening - It is an impressive sight and I don't want to be gloomy, but the opening hours are not customer responsive. We live in a 24/7 society, like it or not, and to restrict hours to the bare office opening hours is neither customer
friendly or modern. - The courageous and inspiring quadaplegic woman who has sailed around the UK is arriving in Dover on Tuesday 1st Sept - are we doing anything to welcome her?
- SUE
Looks like your an outcast, but don't worry you keep at it your doing good job.
bern
I uppose its down to changes in shift patterns, and having to
employ more staff, or even being more inventive with opening times.
Someone needs to look at it, if they want the custom big change though - Bern I think its probably a great
step forward for the population to have access to frontline staff and information. A great help in this internet age for people who dont have computers or for people who are sick of computers and want to put a face to a name, or have
face to face contact. Its already an expensive undertaking although I dont have the figures. But if you were to increase the hours manned then costs would soar. You have to bear that in mind. Everything is a balance. I assume they are
opening on saturday to try and address the need for those working in the week.
Of course I dont know what the thinking is, Im just guessing here you understand. - Sue yes my mistake re Roger Frayne , I forgot for the moment his KCC status so thanks for reminding me...all fixed. Its getting harder to keep tabs on who's councillor for what. Was chatting to Roger in fact at the
event. - Someone has said that you cannot pay rent or rates at the new Gateway Centre.
If those who, for whatever reason, do not have a direct debit facility
and will be forced to go to the Council offices at Whitfield must see this wonderful costly building as a backward step compared to what they enjoyed at the old council office in Castle Street - hello everyone hope u are all having a good bank holiday
- Does anyone know if Dover has planned a welcome for the boatswoman
arriving on Tuesday, please? - Bern see my post in the Members Club thread. Not much info though unfortunately, but gives the general idea as it were. I myself didnt know
anything about this til you mentioned it and I have a feeling its not widely known..even by officialdom. - Thank you PaulB.
It is a poor reflection on Dover if we can't
get our act together for this woman and have a celebration which is advertised and people are welcomed to. - KCC are organising a reception for fellow Lion Hilary Lister at
about 9am I understand. - is dover lions involved in this.if not why not.
- Dover Lions were there at the failed attempt
last year and at the start of this sterling effort and although Lions are being encouraged to go down as far as I know they are not involved officially - Marek, That was agood one
I am still smiling over that one,but I did not say I worked for Barwicks but have done work for them over the years with companys I work for. - Is Dover itself doing
anything to celebrate Hilary Lister? If so, where is it advertised? Are we invited? Will Dover be celebrating this achievement coming to our own shores and taking the opportunity?
- your best bet is to investigate has the planning depyt been consulted, if so you will probably find the
answer
- I would be surprised at the comment by Pat S below - at the Tenterden Gateway you can pay for all services from Council
Tax and Business Rates, rents, library charges, to debtors invoices, and a access a wide range of services.
When I was younger all you could do in Thanet was go to a desk and pay your bills by cash or cheque. Now you can pay be
all sorted of cards, Allpay, giro at Post Offices, pay over the internet (and in some places by mobile), phone a person in office hours, and use rather impressive these days automated telephone systems. Now you can walk into Dover and
use a new office rather than go to Whitfield, we have never had so many options !! - hello what a lovely day it has been down the
beach - hello john how are you? your back from holiday then
- Thanks for that info Scotchie..yes I imagine you can do all
of that, there wouldnt be much point to it otherwise...I have an infosheet of paper here about the services and its says sundry invoices but doesnt say anything further so wasnt cast iron sure. Was surprised some of the guys were less
than enthusiastic about this new idea of bringing services to the people to where its needed and so on. Lots of elderly people around there for example and these services are now all within easy reach. Seems
good. - Dear Paul
1) Re Paul Aka Scotchie/ Paul B
I am told that a local elderly resident who normally pays cash could not do so.
You are told there
is a box on the wall that you can put your rates bill with a cheque in a envelope that is then passed to Whitfield, a few days later the rates advise is returned (by post) to you at home duly stamped by whoever at Whitfield.
As
far as I am aware the Gateway does not take cash or credit cards. Perhaps someone from DDC can confirm the payment policy at this office.
2) Hilary Lister
What a fantastic achievement.
Unfortunatly I was unable to see
her arrive as working until 7pm this evening. However her scheduled arrival, whilst on National and Local TV, was not well promoted locally. Did the big TV in Market Square highlight this?? certainly yesterday afternoon no mention
although the Motor Racing Grand Prix was on and attracted the large audiance of four !!!
- the old ddc office in castle street stopped taking cash a few years
back.
much as is sympathise with the elderly resident, paul scotchie has explained that there has never been a greater choice of making payments. - Yes Pat with
regard the Hilary Lister arrival. This seemed to be just entirely a media event with television coverage and so on but as far as I know there wasnt much happening with anyone else. She was scheduled to arrive on Tuesday as I understand
it (today)but it was clearly brought forward to a bank holiday arrival which is a much better scenario for media. I live on the seafront but didnt see anything happen, but was out a good section of the day. But hopefully she got a nice
welcome.
Did anybody see anything?? or get a picture?? - Hi Howard
I note what you say, however, I personally paid a DDC bill by cash at the old
Castle Street office just prior to the temp move of the office to Market Sq.
There were several people paying housing rent by cash at the same time.
The new system, if what I have seen, involving depositing bill with a
cheque to be forwarded to Whitfield then the stamped bill being returned by post from Whitfield could easily be stamped at the Gateway office as was done in the past thus reducing the postal costs which could be in five figures, Councils
must look to reduce their admin costs.
Of course there are various methods of payment available and many opt forDD if they have a bank account.
I totally agree that a wider range of services may be available at tgis new
office and this is of course good for the residents of Dover - Yes Pat you were able to pay cash at the former" At Your Service office.Tenants now are encouraged to use their
local post office and some local shops accept cards .This is a way of keeping post offices open .Cheques deposited at The Gateway facilty are processed at a central point ie Whitfield .It is cost effective and not everyone asks for a
receipt .Money moved from one office to another means security guys being employed .I can assure the costings were worked out .A lot of people pay by direct debit
When I first went on the council rent collectors were employed .
It
may not seem like it but money is being saved .. - Perhaps Dover need some cash kiosks like Ashford - it is surprising the volume of cash that comes in :)
- Paul enlighten me on Cash Machines ??Bear in mind I think the Gateway at Asford is housed on the same site as their main office ??/
- Sue - I will drop you a line....
- HELLO ALL
- Hello
Kah..I know you say 'hello' a lot but there is very little there for other contributors to respond to other than say hello back...and I think some contributors have already done that one. You might enjoy it all more if you just join in
the discussions on the various topics. We would always be interested to hear what you think about the various topics.Thats always welcome. - I was good to see the
media coverage on Hilary Lister after the completion of her solo sail around the British Isles, but also sad that due to poor PR it seems that the only people who were there to witness this event were KCC, her supporting crew and family.
Was it a private party, no public allowed? - thanks paul i will im going to be swimming the channel if not this year next so looking for
sponsers - the south foreland lighthouse pictured above and a number of other local buildings will be open to the public some time next week, i believe.
the normal weekend
will stretch into 4 days this time. - Hi Howard
South Foreland Lighthouse is open daily in summer to 6th Sept then Mo/Fri/Sat/Sun 7th Sept to 25th Oct and
daily 26th Oct to 1st Nov when it closes for the winter. Admission is £4 adult or family 2A 2Ch £10. National Trust members free
On the 12th September many NT places (and other historical buildings) will be open as it is Heritage
Day, many will have free entry but would need to check before visiting to see what places are participating
- thanks for that pat, the main point i was trying to make(not
very well) was that south foreland is not normally on the free list for heritage weekends. - just checked the town council website, they are open to the public on
10/11/12 september - I believe a number of the veterans at the Town Hall were taken ill and I believe Mr Don Hunter was one of them. Hopefully all of them will be
okay. Its a long day for these guys as they are naturally a good deal older with each passing memorial event, which is easy to forget as you get so used to seeing the familiar faces. They all appeared in good spirits and in fairly robust
health down on the seafront. The bracing breeze keeps everyone on their toes down there and looking robust if not always feeling it. Thats Mr Hunter in the pictures above, centre of the shot bottom left, taken
today. - not totally surprising paul, given their ages.
would have been worse if it had been a hot day.
hopefully they will all recover after a good rest. - I can confirm that 2 veterans were taken ill at the Town Hall including Donald Hunter and both were attended by ambulance men they both appeared to be ok after
treatment. - I attended the memorial service on the seafront as I have done many times before, it was a very moving ceremony. This poignant service for Merchant Navy Day always
leaves one quite humbled. Pleased to hear that those taken ill at the Town Hall are all fine and well. - HELLO JOHN U GOING TO SAY HELLO
BACK
- I KNOW I SAW U TODAY AND U COULDNT EVEN COME FOR A DRINK WITH ME TUTT
- It was good to see Gwyn amongst the
cyclists yesterday, their enthusiasm was like a breath of fresh air in Dover. What a great way to raise money for The Royal British Legion, I wish them all the best on their long cycle ride to Paris.
- What a pity then that while the cyclists were there...in their brief short stay at the above mentioned carpark, someone took the trouble to complain
about them to the DDC and have them moved on. Reason was that they were partially blocking one of the entrances to the carpark. There are other entrances. Even some refuse collection guys passing at the time stopped for a chat and were
gobsamcked at the total lack of goodwill of some people. Is this the way for Dover to treat visitors?
I mean...they were only there for a short while and were doing it all for a charity that helps our military servicemen who are
presently fighting a war. I dunno...strewth! - For once I am lost for words................shame on those
people. - Dad (Far left Cyclist) you look great. It was good of you to wait around for everyone to catch up. Just don't block the entrance to the car park ;) you rascal!
anyhow... Good luck, keep safe, keep Cyliling, Perry Pedal Power !!!
Love the Family
COJAM - off to see richard digance tonight see you tonight john
goodwin - john will be delighted kim.
enjoy the show. - Nice to hear from you Cojam all the way up
there in Chester. I hope all the cyclists made it to Paris okay. A great enthusiastic bunch of guys and gals. Was nice to meet up with them and to see Gwyn there too.
And now for something completely different..I couldnt get to
the Richard Digance evening myself but hopefully it all went well. Full marks to John H Goodwin for making an effort to bring entertainment to Dover. - i knowit
was very good john well done even got a good photo of u in your suit very smart - quite a momentous day for the town, the pictures show it.
you must have stayed up all
night paul, to get there for that unearthly hour. - lol! yes it was an early one Howard. I walked around in a daze and hoped that the camera dials were in the right
place, and kept pressing the button. Good to see the train in real service and of course all the people who helped make it happen. This HSTrain may bring some increased wealth to Dover in the shape of new money from commuters but only
time will tell. As Nigel Collor said..."you can travel to London which takes just over and hour and still be back in Dover for a meeting at 10am"..wow!
I should have such energy..but great for high
flyers! - It's a great thing having the High Speed train coming to Dover and the town and area should embrace it.
- Dont forget it comes at a price as some journeys will take even longer and some trains at certain stations cut
We dont all want to go to St Pancras .
. - Pity Cllr Collor does not try out the new bus route which I have used three times today .Its a nightmare .On paper looked very good in reality awfull .Twenty five minutes to
get to River .No seats in Pencester whilst you wait .Bus full by the time it gets to Iceland .Pushchairs ,dogs and people with lots of shopping .Oh what fun I do have .Come into the real world Nigel
I have one more meeting today
then off to Brighton for a long day . - A fantastic day for Dover as it will be on the "High Speed" route map of the UK. and must assist with regeneration
oportunities. To this end congratulations must be given to Nigel Collor for his perserverance when it looked that the High Speed trains would not come to Dover. Well done Nigel.
However "all that glistens is not gold". When the
new integrated timetable with full high speed train starts in December there will be one train per hour to St Pancras (65 to 70 mins) but as I posted recently and Sue concurs it is at a cost to our local services with those wanting the
City/West End currently enjoying an hourly service taking 90 minutes or so will be every hour taking 2 hours.
What research has South Eastern done ?? On the face of it (and seeing the concern from other areas) very little other
than put a premium fare on the Fast service that other train operators provide with no surcharge.
With these high premium fares those on limited income will certainly use National Express coaches with a journey time of 2hrs 30 as
its fastest but saving some 60% on the fare.
So Sue if you expect a seat in Pencester I would suggest you bring your own as it will only get worse there and it seems no one at DDC is interested - there are always winners and losers when something new comes in.
i will have no need for it, but heartily congratulate all who made this possible.
we are now firmly in
the twentieth first century.
as pat states, we have the choice of national express coaches too. - This is a momentous day for Dover, it seems aeons ago when
Nigel announced that the HST was coming, all the hard work behind the scenes has finally paid off. Well Done to all involved. - Good to see the High Speed Train here this
morning thanks to some hard lobbying, by alot of people who did not want to see Dover left off the map, and that can be said for us all. - Hi Paul B
Sorry for the
late reply (just got back from holiday)! Any other reports I'll send onto you and your more than welcome to attend any GC4D events, will keep you posted.
Tez - PAULB
My computer just back from doctors iv left u an e mail can you reply to it please otherwise cant post
ta
k - HIGH SPEED RAIL LINK
I would like to thank EVERYONE(not
just 1 person) for getting the high speed rail link to Dover.
Only by EVERYONE pushing in the same direction was this achieved.
Well done to EVERY single person/organisation who lobbied for
it. - That'll be everyone, then.
- Well Keef you cant say "everyone" got the train, as everyone didnt. No doubt
many worked on getting it but we..ie everyone.. leave these kind of things to our elected representatives and this time they delivered the goods. I think we have to recognise when people in public office do a good job. They do get
regular kickings by all and sundry but at the same time when something is accomplished they should get recognised for what they have accomplished. Its only fair. people are generally very quick with the brickbats but dont applaud when
they should applaud.
There were individuals who stood out on this effort. - The high speed train is brilliant news for Dover, lets hope it spreads through
the rest of the country. !!! - Does anyone know how much the fare is to London and how it compares with the tarrif for the slower
train? - Philip dont take this as total gospel but I was told that the cost of the new fare to London St Pancras is £55. There are a whole myriad of standard fares so hard to
compare. If JHGoodwin comes on at some point today, he works over there at the station on ticket sales, he may be able to give us a clearer picture.
Come in JHG !! destiny
calls... - First of all there are only 2 trains a day on the preview service and they go at 06.42 and 07.42,the normal fare that time on the morning to London is £47 or with the
underground £51 the new high speed train is £55.But if you are travelling thru London to the North East or West then there is no extra cost providing the routeing on your ticket is any permitted,this will be clarified when the full
service comes in on Dec 7th.
Of course the train is not fast to Ashford and is part of the service to all points on the way so you can go on it at no additional cost to Ashford but then you have the choice to pay the supplement of
£4.50 each way or change at Ashford. - Many Thanks for that JHG - well done. Right on the pace. Almost as fast as the train!
- Paul I am faster,if you understood what I said below please explain it to me,it is a little complicated
- SO WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO TAKE ME FOR A RIDE ON IT LOL
JOHN - well done gwyn our elected representive
and everyone else who lobbied helped - i thought that our honourable
member and all rounder nigel were at the forefront of the campaign keith.
i am sure that there were others in the background that done their bit too.
the important thing is that something that outsiders will notice and
associate with dover.
i bet we get a few more daytrippers in the summer, by then i reckon that special off peak fares will come in.
in fact i am considering taking a trip on it soon, after all an hour is not long to lock
oneself into the toilet for, is it? - As i say well done our elected member gwyn prosser
and as howard says well done to anyone else in background who helped
to - Boulogne's the place! Nuff said.
- HELLO IVE GOT AN AUDITION FOR DICK WHITTINGTON IN SEVENOAKS
SOON - Andy yes I know you are a fan of Boulogne so hope you are enjoying the feature. I was quite surprised by the town and liked it. I know our good friend Roger Walkden tries
hard to lure these guys over to Dover but Dover will have to go some to compete with the outdoorsy al fresco lifestyle of the Boulognese.
When you compare their outdoor wining/dining to the tight assed regulations that forbid us
decent citizens from having a Pimms with our picnics in Market sq next saturday at the Night of the Proms Big Screen celebration, you begin to see the problem. - Im sure the reason that DDC have barred drinking at the event on Saturday is because of the strong opposition to the screen being placed in Market Square .If DDC allow it at their event then it will be impossible to ban those
who wander around drinking in that area .The bar Elle the drinkers have to stay with in the the fenced off area .
Sadly the rules have to apply to every one .I see the high ploy will have seats provided .I dont relish carrying a
chair on the bus .Our new bus service takes twenty five minutes to get to town .Not quite High Speed Train comparision .
- Absolutely agreed Paul, re the al fresco
experience of Boulogne and France in general.
Too many Brits are too p*ssed-up all the time and emotionally immature to just sit down, chinwag and have a nice drink, a coffee or a meal outside without descending into loud,
boorish behaviour that upsets the (usually older and better mannered) majority. We're increasingly a nation of ill-mannered, ill-educated runts (and that includes a few oldies too, not just feckless yoof). No wonder the rest of Europe
quite rightly hates us. I know I do, a lot of the time. - Andy, I totally agree with you.
Of course part of the problem for us in the UK is that the family value has
almost gone . In France the cornerstone is their respect within the family, of course they have a few waywards but in general being raised with these values around them puts them in good stead for adult maturity. There is a great respect
for elders in french families
At one time France was considered a dirty place they now far exceed us in general street and countryside cleanliness (just look at their well tended grass verges)as there is pride. - Must say I'm a Boulogne fan too Andy, Its a lovely place to spend the day or indeed a few days as we did and now very accessible with the recent launch of LD Lines Dover fast ferry
service. The al fresco dining is an extremely pleasant way to pass the time of day/evening and available in all establishments.
The Cathedral is absolutely fabulous but my particular favourite is St Nicholas church situated in a
lovely market square. Lots of long stemmed candles adorn the very beautiful tiled aisles, well worth a visit even if one is not religious.
I notice that LD Lines have some very good autumn rates on offer so definitely worth a
visit over there to capture the last of the hazy lazy sunshine before it disappears from sight until next year. - WELL DONE KAH HOPE U DO WELL AT THE
AUDITION FOR DICK WHITTINGTON AS I HEAR ITS A PROFESSIONAL ONE AUDITIONING FOR CINDERELLA AT BLACKFISH AS WELL. - KAh well done re getting your chance to audition but there isnt
a lot people can say to that kind of post, as nobody knows who you are and so on. As I mentioned before...Try and join in the discussions and you will enjoy it more. If you pass your auditions eventually, let us know. But for now we are
talking about topics like the High Speed Train...Dover in relation to Boulogne..getting visitors to come here, and topics like that. - Lovely photos of Boulogne and
what a magnificant cathedral. - loverly town shame about the prices.4 coffees 20 euros that what i was charged at one of the many cafes the last time i was
there. - just a few words in defence of the english here.
yes we do have a problem with public drinking and related yobbishness. this is not because our continental friends
are better than us, it is because they have security and stewards in addition to the police in public parks and gardens(try chucking some litter down and see what happens).
as for violent behaviour, our football grounds and
surrounds, solved this problem 20 years ago.
try going to most city centres or rail termini near to kick off or after a game then see warfare break out.
the ultras in italy are the worst case in point.
germany and italy
are the worst culprits, but most eastern european countries have yobs following their football teams, bedecked in nazi paraphernalia.
maybe we should stop the breast beating about our fair islandof albion. - Thank you for that, Howard - it is true we do the mea culpa thing too often - we have problems with yobs, but you are right that the other european countries are not
"better", they just manage yobs better! We should hold our heads up once in a while! - just taken in the lovely stone works on the cathedral there, how old are they?
why
is briony standing in front of a "delboy" vehicle there? - Don't be a plonker, Howard.
It's a Citroen Garden, innit? - That poor car has taken root waiting for a French driver to give way and let it
out............................
Sorry. - Jeez I dunno...Ive tried two nights this week to have a good dinner out in Dover and both times it was a miserable experience.
I go out a lot so am speaking from experience here, but I am beginning to think I will give up trying this whole dining out idea here in Dover. Its a complete waste of my money.
Tuesday and Thursday night (last night) I went to
nice quality establishments but there i was.. next to nobody there, more or less. Where is the life?? Where is the ambience?? Where is everybody? With BB on tuesday after dinner we drove round the town looking to see how the other
restaurants were faring and they were all empty or nearly empty. I wont name any of the restaurants we saw, but all was dismal. The whole town was dead.
Can somebody tell me where to go in Dover that wont be deserted by 8pm..that
wont have the bleak mid winter gloom attached to it, even tho its only early september. How can I recreate the Boulogne experience here!? Can somebody tell me where to go....( and nobody say bugger off back there!lol)
- Try living in the real world Paul .People donot have the money .This week the children returned to school all suited and booted .The more fortunate have
returned from Holidays .
When My family were small a meal out was once a year Its only these past few years that I have dined out as my children have well paid jiobs .
Take a ride round St Radigunds or Buckland estate .When
our councils look to improving the area then maybe people will turn out in the evening s for a stroll .Shops have shutters which Im against so you cannot look intio the windows .Major retailars have their own drab displays no nice littel
shops to look into .
I live near a nursing home and each day you see the staff working long hours for little return .I exoect after a twelve hour shift they have neither time or energy for dining out . - Here here Sue, its the case that most people dont have the money or are paid poorley. What money i have is now going towards christmas, a long way off but i have to save to get my
kids what they want its either that or credit. Very few of us im sure have the money to eat out once a week let alone twice a week like Paul B. It seems only people over a certain age have that luxury? Mind you if Paul B wants to take me
out i am more than willing if he pays haha!!! - PaulB
It looks like you have opened a can of worms with your last posting. However I know what you mean about trying to
find a decent lively eating house in Dover town without the hassle of taxis or driving to the countryside.
Since moving I've noticed how often my family (not me I hasten to add) dine out.On average maybe 4 times a week not
including business lunches and great hotel meals..not for poor old us. I'm still knocking out the stews,curries and Pancake Rolls. There are some excellent places to eat over here all competing with each other for the very limited
market. An excellent 3 course meal starts at about a £10-15 with the average about £18 -25 per head not including booze. Next month is the October food fest where about 70 island restaurants compete for the month serving up the best
grub for just under a £10.
- Paul: if you want a good meal in Dover there's only one place to go, The Allotment (Dover's first-ever restaurant to make the Good
Food Guide). The service and the food are unparalleled.
On another note, re the lovely St Nicolas church in Boulogne's Place Dalton, our French grandmother was christened there and in 1929 married our Grandad Stevens there. Very
close to our heart, Boulogne, for us Stevens, and for a very long time. - Paulb
sad you tend to give impression Dover dont have eating places.
I have visited
two establishments with my wife recently and both gave superb service and supurb food
First one is the allotment already mentioned and i have posted on this before about how you do have to wait for the food freshly cooked, but
the manager around with friendl face and ready if you want to chat.
The second is the Cabin chapter in the high street
This is run by a lady who has come down from the Dartford area and she recognises the potential of this
cosy eating place.
The lady is friendly, and the meal again superb.
The lady has built up a gd business threre and sall local support appreciated.
If your into indian food, the light of india down Townwall street is
a great place i go to once a month (not to far from you paulb!!)
owner friendly, meals superb
anyway theres a few i have visited myself and found nothing but great standard
im sure there are
more - yes i will thanks paul just dont have much to say about it appart from it will cost alot having that train service running through
dover - I will second those who praise The Allotment. I am a regular there and it is simply first class.
Next week I am there no less than three times, two business 1:1
dinners in the evenings and one lunchtime 1:1 business meeting (on the same day as one of the evenings)..... I will have to starve myself for a few days or I wont fit into my new car next week....
Then, of course there are others
not mentioned that are excellent, The Carpathian for instance.
I have always thought that Dover is particularly rich in decent restaurants for a town of its demographics. - The point I was making though guys is not that there arent any places to eat, but that they are all near as dammit empty when you get there.
I take on board what Sue
and Jasper said about money shortages and in fact there is a report on the BBC today saying that we are all approx £31,000 worse off per household since the recession, so I can see where the money is tight. However if all the places are
empty and they are, it spells doom for their survival prospects. Expect some to close.
Andy very nice little anecdote there about St Nicholas Church. Very interested to hear that. Will be taking the Boulogne story down now and
placing it in the archives as something else has come up. Enjoyed doing it. Might encourage a few locals to pay a visit over. - Saw the pictures
though.....
Doddery old person that shouldn't be driving such a powerful car ,if at all, that is an automatic transmission !! - To round the corner and see
the above scene was gobsmacking to say the least, you have to say its amazing that nobody was in his way or he himself was not hurt only shaken up.They say that Mercedes are built like tanks this shows maybe they are as the silver car
seem to have suffered more of the damage.
And as always the Boss was on the scene by a sheer stroke of luck to report first hand hows that for speed.
- do we
know how old the driver was?
anyone over the age of 70 has to get a letter from their gp to say that they are fit and able to drive.
i have been amazed at some of the people they pass fit. - I've been amazed at some of the people they've allowed to pass their test....................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- I don't see what the fuss is all about really. Driver hits small wall and collides with other car. Where is the news in that? Nobody killed. Move on people nothing to see
here. - Ah sure Phillip...at least it made a change from all the "same old faces"...eh!?
and of course if you can come up with anything original yourself be sure to let us
know! - I heard that the fire was at the Cinque Ports Pub.Do you know where the fire was PaulB?
- Marek yes it looks
to be the Cingue Ports Pub..you are spot on with the immediate area. But Im not dead certain it was the actual pub....but it looks as if it was. The info will emerge Im sure..anyone knows let us know. Over to the left of that cluster of
buildings you can see the former cafe...which was popular for a while and in the part ownership of a well known forumite. - paulb/marek it was the pub,its been slightly damedged
acording to heart [invicta]news broadcast at 0800 this morning. - According to Kent Online practically all of the outbuildings/yard have been destroyed and 10% of the pub. At least
no-one was hurt.
If accurate at least it sounds repairable. Such a shame, the Cinque Ports is a lovely pub with a wonderful little yard full of interesting nick-nacks. They have a outdoor woodburning stove so maybe that was the
cause? - Thanks for that input guys..yes this morning it looks just the same as ever down there from my angle...so the facade of the pub is showing little or no damage. As Phil
says there, the fire was quite robust and towards the rear. It generated considerable interested from quite a few fire engines so they must have caught it in time before it spread to the front of house.
Ive never been in that
pub...dont thinkso anyway. - paulb,if it reopens again why dont you take a stroll down there and have a good look round.i agree with phil that the nic nacs at the back make
intressting reading. - Re the telly: what were we expecting on a chilly September Saturday night? Talk about setting yourself up to
fail.........!!! - We did say at the time it would not take off ,I think it is good to try things out some take off some do not,and I am sorry to say this one looks like that will
not,but time will tell,But i can not see alot looking at it in the bad weather which will come in the next few weeks, so it does look like a summer event only,but lets just wait and see. - Exactly Bern. Another grade A, oven-ready, fully-basted, stonewall own-goal.
- Well I can tell you I as a Councillor I did
not get an invitation I saw it on here,I read about it in the newspapers,and it was mentioned on the papers I get but no invitation,perhaps I am the wrong colour(political) yes I knew about it but I didn't go as to be fair after working
8 hrs on Sat and 12 hrs today I didn't really want to go out and watch the event with a few others while I could sit at home and choose what I wanted,as it turned out yes I watched some of 'The last night of the
proms'. - Shame about the lack of people at the Proms in the Square; I sent out an email to all those on my email address groups, but see that hardly anyone turned up.
Jean and
I drove by about 20.45 and couldn't see many people at all, not even the local celebs.
I didn't get an invite, but that's not why we didn't go - we went for a curry (and very nice it was too).
I didn't think there was an
"inviting" enough invite to come along to the Proms, no bunting, no nothing; I'm sure the Chairman and Mayor only went "officially".
Look at Hyde Park and the other place shown (I know you can't compare Market Square with Hyde
Park), they had tens of thousands; I bet they had much better publicity and provided services - food, drink and open toilets.
I agree with the comments about Boulogne, but it is difficult to create an evening's cafe culture
here, when they all close around 5pm.
There needs to be encouragement, co-operation and a CAN-DO attitude - from every one, if we are to see the Town move forward on all levels.
Jean and I have just returned from 2 weeks in
Palma, Majorca where her daughter lives works and there are loads of piazza's there, all full of diners and drinkers, but no drunkards - didn't see one.
The costs there though are almost prohibitive: on food - hamburgers (good
ones) for between £12 and £15; drink - pint of worthington smoothflow for example, at £4.60 and clothes, supermarket shopping and other stuff, almost twice as much as here and there average wage is lower; but there are an awful lot of
very rich people there, which you can tell by the size and number of the yachts.
Tourists are down though, in great numbers - partly I think because of the euro, maybe the recent bombing and also everything is just so dear there.
Things sold in the various markets is almost twice as much as sold in the shops and they don't bargain any more - a great place, but so very
dear.
Roger - As someone who was thre last night there last night I enjoyed the evening, I saw you Paul B sneek off during the first half only
to return during the interval and head straight to the museum with the rest of the invited guests. I spoke to many people there and one couple had come all the way down from sittingbourne to see the proms and I was sat next to an
American Couple who had come off the cruise ship. These things take time to grow an audience and from reading the members page on this subkect a number of you said you were coming and never turned up. - Naturally I was very disappointed with the turn out. It really takes the edge of making an effort as a councillor to see no response at all.And surely just because no invite
was sent that does not mean you cann't just turn up. As for sneeking away that is not denyed and is mentioned above.But obviously it wasnt some peoples idea of a saturday night out. But all credit to the DDC officers who put in a big
effort to help it go ahead. All one can say is very sad Prom Lover would be interested to know if the audience grow by many. - Frankly I'm suprised that everyone is so
suprised at the low attendance to the "great event". This monstrosity was rushed through at double speed and given the go ahead while those who opposed the idea of installing a giant telly were shot down in flames on this and other
forums. 20:20 hindsight is great but the ability to see the futility of giving this telly the go ahead is even better. The trouble is that because Dover is desperate to improve itself it appears that any idea is better than none - and We
can now see the results of such panic measures.
God only knows (actually I do) what will happen when we hit 2012.
It will be much the same as the last night at the proms fiasco and will serve as a reminder to those who run
the council to ask people what they think of stupid ideas before they are implemented. - I heard the lady with the BBC Coat on say that she counted 80 people. Not the thousands
that were at Hyde park but for a cold September evening quite good I would say. - Prom lover is right: these things take time to bed in. Sadly some people seem to have
succumbed to the modern quick fix ethos that expects everyhting to be great immediately. That isn't real life.
Jan - I know you work hard for Dover, but it seems a little hypocritical to say you may be de-motivated by a lack of
local response when the local reps do so very little to realistically and meaningfully reach out to locals!!!!!Putting on a few sarnies, inviting a few old faces, posting a couple of emails doesn't really cut it, does it?! Expecting
locals to turn out to a ridiculously unpublicised and chilly event on a September Saturday evening and then bleati ng because only a few turned up is a bit off, frankly. From one of the posts here it appears some did come, from a
distance, and even enjoyed it (hallelujah!) Please define "success" and show me your action plan for progressing the telly and its popularity. - Prom Lover yes I nipped to the
loo...nearest one?..Wetherspoons.
80 people is a spin.
No cafe bothered to stay open, all were shut otherwise would have had some coffee nearby as well. Did have a Wetherspoons coffee though in the end while we relayed to
the loo.
Philip I have to put my hands up here, I thought there would be a big turnout. - You missed the 3 portable loo's by Bairstow Eaves then Paul B.
- Sure did.
- Look at the demographics of the population of Dover. Last night of the proms probably appeals to less
than 5% of the population. Because the vast majority of the users of this site aspire to this type of event you are by far and away in the minority. - Im not really
following that last post localview... It doesnt make sense. The proms evening has nothing to do with doverforum...nor did any of our forumites go to it. Apart from me.
So our 'vast majority of users' as you put it, clearly did
NOT aspire to it. (the only forumites who went to it were councillors doing their councillor thing..total 3)
I went so that I could get coverage for the readership and so that I would be able to talk about it having seen it up
close as it were. - I often read Dover Forum but have not contributed but the sheer negativity of this article prompts me to comment. Although this site is predominently for
Dover residents I dare say a few non- locals have a look to see what is going on. I don't think the above article is the best way to make Dover seem attractive and inviting. The language is negative and cynical and frankly reflects
poorly on the writer. Surely the success of the event is not down to which invited councillors did or did not turn up, honestly who cares! It is down to those members of the public that did go and how much they enjoyed it.
I
believe that those that attended had an enjoyable night. I personally think a few more may have turned up if the event had been promoted more widely. - Exactly!!!! Success is
relative and enjoyment has to be a factor. And events are not publicised properly and yet councillors then complain about feeling less motivated when not enough people turn up!!!
I do think, though, that local cafes and shops
need to sharpen up and get with it in order to encourage that "continental cafe culture" we keep banging on about. I remember when the Christmas lights were (disappointingly) switched on last time - loads of us would have gone for
coffees and other bits if the cafes had stayed open, but the most welcoming of them started putting the hoover round quite a few minutes before closing (5 pm for Gods sake!!) and looked at us like bloody lepers for asking if we could buy
coffee. Yes, Costa, you know who you are. Service at its worst.
But Dover IS fabbo and there is a lot to offer, we just need better local reps to promote it (Roger - you are a great exception!! I don't think we could improve on
you....) and more willingness to think around corners from the local shops. - having read all the comments about last evening, it seems that the dover malaise has struck
again.
anything new is put down, yet the people that do the putting down usually offer no alternatives.
i note paul's comments about being unable to get a coffee, except for the eight bells.
do these cafes want anything
better than at present?
i doubt it, they could have told their regulars that they were staying open for the saturday evening, then afterwards assessed whether it was a good idea.
the baguette emporium on king/bench street
is a classic case in point, they ALWAYS close on a sunday.
bleriot weekend and the regatta they had a footfall for thousands going past their locked up premises.
roger mentions bunting, there was not even a banner leading up to
the event.
we have banners to advertise events in detling and the theatre company in the discovery centre.
phillip mentions that it was pushed through, there was a public meeting where there were plenty of residents giving their
views to the planning committee. - Well I was home for the weekend, and Dad popped down town, and said he really enjoyed himself last night... bless him! Obviously
easily pleased...
the only thing that put him off was the fact that obviously there were still drunk people wandering around... and he said he felt jovial enough, and even said he had been sitting with the chain gang rather than
me for a change!
When I still lived up in London we had a wonderful time going to last night of the proms, we got tickets to Hyde Park, and sang and danced our way through the whole event. But it was a different crowd one can
imagine.
- ......."phillip mentions that it was pushed through, there was a public meeting where there were plenty of residents giving their views to the planning
committee."
And I take it Howard there was full support for the screen?????
As for the Dover malaise I would cite the screen as part of the wider description of this supposed Dover malaise. Something sold to the council as
entertainment on the cheap (although as it transpires it's not so cheap after all). - of course there was not full support for the screen philip, that is why there was a public
meeting.
everyone had a chance to have their say, and letters on the subject were read out.
one of the main issues was the anti social behaviour fear.
reports from the local police who had contacted other forces were in
favour as studies showed that anti social elements disappeared
once the public started to watch it.
as for costs, my information is that ddc will shell out about 6000 pa - Yes I knew about the proms evening read it on the DDC webb site ,Like John I did not get an invite and I think its a shame to blame councillors for not turning up .It was
the usual chain gang and a couple of Cabinet Members .
Yes the planning did get rushed and I will always maintain this .No I will never attend anything to do with the screen however invites should go to all .I would always
politly turn it down .I was so against the screen and paid dearly ,The cost to DDC is more like £16,000. - I WOULD OF BEEN THERE IF I KNEW ABOUT IT BUT AS USUAL IT WASNT
ADVERTISED - LIKE MOST THINGS THAT ARE ON IN DOVER THEY DONT ADVERTISE IT
- the BBC should have shown Proms in the Park
and not just the Albert Hall!! - Maybe more flexibility on the use of re-usable banners across the street should be addressed - one at the bottom of Cannon Street and the
other up by the Town Hall would have let every one know.
The email I sent round also went round to all the Hoteliers, so maybe those Americans knew about it from that source.
I doubt if any one went to Dickens, Chaplins,
Baguette Ella or La Salle Verte to ask them to stay open because of the proms ? A nice hot coffee and a fresh baguette would have gone down very well I'm sure and would have encouraged more people to stay.
Advanced publicity is a
big factor, but it doesn't seem to be co-ordinated properly.
Who decides on the invites ? at the same time of sending those out, they could have spoken to specific businesses too.
What's the next big event ?
Roger - I wish I could get the franchise for a mobile coffee and sandwich bar for the Market Sq .Opening it up when the other static
businesses are closed therefore not affecting their trade.
As Bern said previously for nights like the Switching On Xmas lights.TV nights and late nights Fri/Sat selling burgers curries and chilli chips and rice to late night
revellers. - I'd still like to know why the PCT put £35k of NHS money into the screen.
Terry - Come back Marek! I'll be first in the queue for your chilli chips and rice lol!
Jenn, like your Dad I enjoyed myself on Saturday night . Linda H and I had a sneaky flask of hot chocolate, Lovely! Shame about the lack
of numbers though. - Terry you raise a topical point there re the PCT ( Primary Care Trust) as Im about to put an
item up re the new hospital situation in relation to the flood plain hiccup. You are right....very hard to know why the Health Service put money into the Big Screen. perhaps they thought it would be some sort of mass therapy, something
along the lines of the George Orwell Big Brother mass well being ideal....but even then the screen was in every ones home.
Seriously though a very interesting question that will baffle the public for years to come.
- For health promotion purposes i understand .I donot think they expect people to do early morning press ups looking at the screen
- did not mr lansley promise us a hospital on his visit to dover?
i seem to remember him saying that the next blue govenement would provide us with a proper one, once
elected.
then he was gone. - What I find strange is the Tories at the District Council voted for the hospital at the Health Centre site and they were told what we
were getting and en bloc stuck thier hands up,yet Charlie seems to be saying no matter what his mates have said at DDC he wants something else.Perhaps he isn't getting his message over to Paul Watkins and
co. - HELLO JOHN
- JHG I think I remember Charlie being at odds with local Conservative councillors on a few issues in
the past, cant remember what exactly they were now off the top of my head, but he hasnt always been in harmony with Paul Watkins as the occasional note of discord has happened before. But no doubt if Im wrong somebody will fill me
in.
Yes Howard I also remember Andrew Lansley promising a hospital as reported by the newspapers...but for a while there we had a number of Westminster Tories coming down promising this and that. We called them photo
opportunities...does anyone remember those particular exchanges.
Charlie seems to have his feet in reality though...he isnt doing a Lansley and promising the world.
Kah I thought we'd been through this Hello John thing
already. Enough now, thanks. - i think that charlie elphicke is his own man and will not just simply do as he is bid by central office.
the problem i have is that he is
being photographed with mr lansley, which people might construe as meaning the big hospital is coming. - paul
our prospective honourable member was in
disagreement with ddc over the issue of more housing in whitfield.
i seem to remember he got aligned with the "whitfield action group"., i do not know if they are still around. - An inane decision to put the clinic there in the first place . £100s thousands wasted by the PCT - and they were told so many times.
Plenty of land at whitfield to
put a proper facility with parking and a helicopter pad and room for growth.
I went to William Harvey today - usual scrabble for the one car park space.
Of course DDC planners say that most people will walk or bus to the
clinic.
Charlie has a good perspective - he has my backing on this
The PCT won't accept any blame - they need sacking en-mass esp the chief exec who has wasted OUR money and delayed the building. - I understand that the survey about flood-plain here has been completed, but the report not published - to the general public.
I have been led to believe that
that the problem of the water can be engineered out, it just depends on the costs.
This survey will determine whether the mid-town regeneration goes ahead too; it's not just the hospital that's at stake, but the whole
development of the mid-town area, so an awful lot is riding on it.
The report was supposed to have been finished by July, maybe the costs (and ways) of engineering out the water problem have been the next delaying
factor.
Everything is surmountable, depending on the costs.
Roger
The real question is will Dover get a hospital or a
polyclinic irrespective of where it is located, although a town centre location would greatly assist the regeneration that the town centre requires following so much (retail/office) going to Whitfield. The “Flood Plain” issue is yet
another smokescreen as I am sure there are many hospitals in Holland far more vulnerable to flooding than Dover!!!
There is also the question mark over the future of South Kent College in Dover.
Like many Dover people I
have had relatives/friends at William Harvey/QEQM and we have to recognise that to have two hospitals in East Kent that give specialist treatment is excellent as this has reduced the number of patients that had to travel to London. I can
recall when my son broke his neck at rugby the travel we had to and fro to Kings.
What I fail to understand with the PTA/Health Authority is the fact that beds at the specialist hospitals (William Harvey/QEQM) are unable to be
vacated to allow other patients specialised treatment due to the fact the person in recuperation is using the bed. If specialist hospital beds can be vacated earlier would possibly create shorter waiting lists for those needing an
operation. This can only be achieved if the “local” hospital has “recuperation” beds. This would also ensure the patient is closer to home and people visiting would only travel locally (Good for the carbon footprint).
It is
interesting that whilst Dover has been arguing what and where it wants a hospital Ashford has secured a “local” hospital (additional to William Harvey) and it seems Ashford Borough Councillors worked to a common objective for something
of overall benefit to the community rather than adopt so much political infighting
Pat Sherratt- maybe there are lessons to be learned from ashford here.
the
hospital issue in dover has to some extent been taken over as a political issue and sometimes just an ego driven thing. - Pat
The question of "recuperation"
beds has been brought up at DDC Scrutiny meetings a number of times and there is to be a supply of these (apparantly there is already, but not much publicity about them).
There is a growing need for these intermediate beds and I
understand that many post-op patients may well be able to go home and have Doctor/nurse visitations for treatments and drugs, if deemed appropriate by the Doctors/Consultants.
Freeing up specialist hospital beds will indeed reduce
the waiting time for scheduled operations and people do get better quicker, if not in hospital.
Roger - i have not had to stay in hospital
sinec a tonsils operation at the age of 6, the thought of a night in hospital terrifies me.
i feel sure that any time spent recovering at home is far preferable
to being in an institution. - Dear Roger and Howard
If recuperation can be at home this is ideal for all. However some patients need medical supervision for a short time after a operation and it
is for these people that "recuperation" beds at a local hospital is better than at William Harvey/QEQM - i am not against recuperation beds pat, i was just making the point
that for most people, the sooner they get home the sooner they will recover.
clearly medical supervision is essential for some post op patients. - So many
arguments over such a long period of time and still people are denied proper opportunities for eficient and sensible local healthcare. Clearly it is better for people to be at home to recuperate, but without community nurses and other
services there are too many risks for many people. Clearly it is good to have step down/recup beds for people who no longer need immediate medical attention but who are not yet recovered sufficiently to go home, but those beds are being
closed - there were some at Buckland. In additiion, it is becoming increasingly difficult to staff those sorts of facilities on the budgets devised, which is a knock on from the obtuse and abstruse methods of assessing and setting those
budgets. Ditto community care and support. A bit of joined up thinking, a central budget for health and social care and support instead of the seperation, which would reduce the risks of politicising the budgets and some intelligent
action planning would be a step forward! - I must ask an obvious question at this point even though it might sound a tad dopey. As there are already buildings on the flood plain
here in Dover and given the fact that half of Ashford is built on a floodplain, probably even their hospital, why cant it still go ahead with the appropriate steps taken to make sure the hospital itself never gets flooded, which should
be easy enough architecturally.( stilts?)
Somebody made a very good point on an earlier posting, off the top of my head Im not sure if it was on this frontpage or in the Members Club thread, but the regeneration it could bring to
central Dover would be appreciated by all who live here. This apart from the easy access...no car driving necessary for most, so a very green option.
If every single development keeps getting built out of the town itself, it just
means that the town will die. - Very good observation Paul and true as well.
Despite the obvious case of more open space for a hospital at Whitfield,
having one in Town will also help regenerate the Town, but that is NOT the reason for the decision to build it in central Dover.
These arguments have all been gone over time and time again and many if not all possible options have
been looked at.
I will be very surprised if the flood-plain options are not surmountable, it just depends on the costs of the necessary measures.
There has been scare-mongering (or whatever you wish to call it) since day
one; I guess it is another case of "you can't please all of the people all of the time".
There are many of these step-down/intermediate beds spread around the District, I can't remember their locations, but as far as I know
and the PCT tell us, they are being increased, not reduced.
Roger - Good photoshoot there; I must say though, from just looking at it, there
are at least a couple of (our) Cabinet members missing and one there who is no longer a Cabinet member.
Roger - Yes thats a good picture..it
was sent to me by the KCC so its not one of mine. A good study of the relevent bods. Good to see that the KCC figured we were worth a visit so we must be doing something right down here in Dover. According to The Mercury one of the
conversations mooted was the prospect of new large scale housing. Clearly the local politicians believe that this will bring regeneration.
Thanks Roger...I know it may not be too fashionable at the moment but I would like to see
the hospital idea stay in the town centre. What does any town centre need...a church, a school, a pub, a shop, and... a hospital. - The DDC could not organise a
drink in a brewery. A complete and utter shambles which will result in the PolyClinic being located in Whitfieldville.Where most of the council wanted it put in the first place.
Dover Town needs this clinic in town or else the
whole area will die a death as Gary Cooper and Randolph Scott stride down the High St with bushes ,flying past in the wind, them and boarded up shops and bars abound. - Not so my friend ,DDC want it in the Town Centre as it will be accessable for all .Riverside Centre is nearby and as been said it was built on a platform so as to avoid the riks of
flooding .The Flooding is just scaremongering . - But the bit about DDC and the drnk/brewery thing was accurate though!!!! The word shambles could have been invented
for them! - I'm sorry Bern, I completely disagree; the officers at DDC are very professional people and get it right the vast majority of the time.
I don't always agree
with the Cabinet on their decisions, but do feel, led by Paul Watkins, that great strides are being made to progress Dover that will change forever the structure of the Town in a positive way, for every one.
What we do need though
- now, is someone on the ground in Dover with his mind and feet down here as well, working with and for the businesses and the Town to move it forward in all directions: business, tourism, encouraging new businesses to come here and
working on various aspects of Dover; from run-down buildings, to closed down buildings, from rates to car-parking issues and everything in between.
Roger - Iam reading the book at this time up to where I have got "Yes " it is good reading,but I left it up at Stoke last weekend now
waiting for it to come back. - Lorraine does not get on with me and that goes back to the time I was on the Town Council but I have never met up with her,
mind you she's not the only one who does not get on with me, but why?I am very nice aske the wife and dog and SUE. - I hope the signing goes well for Lorraine tomorrow
morning, I'm hoping to get a copy in my Christmas stocking, hint, hint. Did I just mention Christmas, Oh No! I've done it twice now, someone get me my pills
lol!!! - Roger, you are probably right, but to us proles it does not appear that way. The apparent lack of joined up thinking and poor liason with the local
community are ample evidence. - IM VERY INTERESTED IN GHOSTS BE INTERESTING TO TALK TO HER
- Charlie Elphicke is
correct that the whole issue surrounding a hospital for Dover is fiasco. Nonetheless, it should not be forgotten that I successfully won Dover the right for a Community Hospital with all the provisions that are required by a community
such as ours. Therefore I have every right to correct his mis-statements and ask him, for once, to listen to what I have to say.
First it was NOT the Government that was inflicting the polyclinic onto us and now a basic upgrade
of Buckland Hospital, but the PCT/EKHUFT.
As I have stated on this Forum before, the EKHUFT want to be competitive with other health authorities and therefore wish to use the money in their coffers to provide state-of-the art
service is specific fields that could prove lucrative – attracting patients from other areas.
Thus, as long as they provide us with the minimum requirement locally and we all travel to either William Harvey/ Kent and Canterbury
or Queen Elizabeth etc., in Margate, then they can. This will not alter even if the Conservatives/Mr Elphicke win the next election.
HOWEVER, there is one opportunity left open to us. Shortly after I won the case Richard Barwick
offered 6 acres at Whitfield. As we all know, sadly Barwick’s have now gone into receivership, but those 6 acres may still be available. Perhaps if Mr Elphicke used his energies in trying to persuade the Official Receivers, the PCT and
EKHUFT to get round the table and discuss … we just might get the Community Hospital that we are still legally entitled to.
Lorraine Sencicle
- Many thanks for
that Lorraine, always good to hear up to the minute thinking from those at the cutting edge. Interesting what you say there about Charlie ( Charlie Elphicke Conservative candidate) in relation to the politics of it all. Its probably
normal politics to blame the government for everything but was interested to hear what you say, that Charlie could make no difference, it appears it matters little who's in power with regard to this hospital issue.
Although those
'in the know' appear to want a general hospital on the outskirts of Dover, is there no appetite at all for a smaller cottage hospital in central Dover. This idea appeals to me. An easy access state of the art user friendly hands on
medical centre for the internet age...all the while easily reachable for people who live in central Dover, the people probably most likely to need immediate medical care. We've seen the Gateway Centre bring wide ranging services to
people, where people are, why not the same idea with a hospital, even if it has to be small.
As former Mayor Ken Tranter said in the hospital thread in the Members Club, he has been associated with the Riverside Centre for years (
which is in the same 'flood plain' area) and it has never knowingly been flooded. - Both Lorrraine and Ken are right about elements of the flooding issue. There
is no doubt that there is a surface water drainage problem and no one hides from that issue. Phil's photo shows the dilema.Southern Water Services have programmed the remedial measures in their business plan going to their Board in
January. Kent County Council have been awarded £100k from DEFRA for flooding works in central Dover recently. Whether you have a hospital/clinic in this location the problem needs resolving and just stopping development and keeping the
status quo is unacceptable. The people of that area need engineering solutions and works that remove the problem. The Environment Agency has a statutory responsibility to fund and do its bit not just object because a scheme is
inconvenient for its funding streams. If left to the EA any development near the River Dour is sterilised for the foreseeable future. So there we have it, two of the three agencies with statutory responsibilities to deal with the issues
have funding available or planned. The third the EA has/will not.
As for the feasibility study undertaken, it found that despite EA objections the building footprint did not fall into the area described as severest flood risk. As
to date there are no beds planned for this site, what is the issue.
Dover ,we know, will not get an "all singing, dancing" District General Hospital. If that was the case I too would have advocated Whitfield. I have no problem
with Whitfield but it is defeated by the current transport links. The figures show that the residents who use the current Buckland site come from Dover's central wards. What I have always said is, that the current Buckland site is
unacceptable and Dover deserves better than the 1800's workhouse. It has served us well but has had its day.
In my view to start another round of consultation is just irresponsible and delays decisions. If this government or a
future government clamps down on capital spending in the near future then will it have been worth it?
Just for the record the EA is only a consultee and has no powers to interfere/stop planning decisions. If it had, many Deal
applications would have ceased years ago. They object to many planning applications. It's the easy way out.
So let's put it plainly, hospital/clinic or not , this area of town needs major drainage works. No action is not
acceptable.
In my view, it is still the logical place for a health facility.
Watty - Many thanks for that Paul, very interesting indeed to get your
slant on things. - First, thanks Paul for the coverage on the signing of my book, Haunted Dover, at Sussex bookstore this morning - Saturday. It went very well and it was
particularly good that the Mayor, Sue Jones, popped in, it made me feel appreciated.
With regards to the proposed Community Hospital and the flooding issues that Cllr. Paul Watkins correctly outlines below. I am now working on my
next book, due out next year, and one of the areas I have just typed up appertains to Cambridge Terrace. There, not only did the engineers have to face flooding but also the Dour - which was tidal at that point ...
"Prior to
1852, the area where Cambridge Terrace now stands was known as ‘Up the Pent.’ Here there was an unformed road on the sloping side of the Dour tidal stream and was known as a cut-throat place, devoid of lamplight, and reeking of all
kinds of filth. In March 1852, the Harbour Commissioners appointed Messrs Lee to constructed the quays now occupied by De Braderie Wharf area, and laid Cambridge Road and Northampton Street (now gone but was on the town side of
Wellington Dock). An arch, 330 feet long, was built over the Dour forming a culvert some 10ft to 14ft in diameter. This was then strengthened using Medina cement and bricks formed into “masses 2ft long.” The brickwork was then further
strengthened by the use of Medina cement, to take the weight of Cambridge Terrace, which was completed in 1856.
Of note:
This is one of the earliest record of the use of Medina cement. The Medina Cement Company was established
on the west bank of the Medina river, Isle of Wight, around 1840. By mid 19th century, it had acquired a reputation as a pioneer in cement concrete. For a number of years it rivalled Portland Cement, exhibiting at the 1851 Great
Exhibition and securing government contracts. The two products had quite different properties: Medina Cement was a 'roman' cement and quick drying, while Portland was, at that stage, slower but ultimately stronger.
Perhaps we
can learn from the past?
Lorraine
- Jasper we cannot run posts like the one you just put up as it left us here on Doverforum in a very difficult
legal situation with regard its references to a local business and the people that run that business. You also of course dont put your name on it but do it under a pseudynom, which again drops us in it rather than yourself.
This
page is open to one and all, and is sensitive because of its relatively high viewing figures, so please be aware that everyone has to post responsibly or we can get sued and whathaveyou which could close us down in an
instant. - Paul B is free comment no longer allowed on this site, this was a responsible comment about a service i was offered in the local area. Jasper is my real name so where
you get that this is a pseudynom is beyone me Paul. If you want my name and address i am willing to call you with it ....... Please enusre facts are correct Paul B before posting. - Free comment is allowed Jasper but we cannot go into slanderous/ libellous situations which would always be contested. What you say would be vehemently denied by the business people concerned which would most certainly result
in a legal case. I already have had indications of same this morning. I suggest you write to the business concerned. Its not directly anything to do with us so we cant get dragged into it. The newspapers would not run an item like that
either without legal clarification.
Okay if your name is Jasper fair enough, but you arent registered so I wouldnt know. I assumed it to be a pseudynom. Your postings were good in the past and welcomed but you can see our
situation Im sure. - Paul B i am and have always been for Dover and will offer my support where and when i can. The same can be said if i feel an injustice has been commited.
Free speech is something that cannot be stopped and rest assured a letter has gone of this morning to the parties concerned. It was just to point out to the members the pro's and con's of holding a function at this venue.
I can
appreciate the Forums situation on this and hope my comments on this subject havent caused you any problems. Fair and Just people deserve others to figh there corner and that is my intention with the hotel concerned.
Fear not
Paul B i will not do it on the forum ............. apologies for the slanderous comments which may have caused insult this wasnt the intention. - I do not think it is right to
show the Mayor leting her hair down, By all means have agood night out on her birthday but not put it in the public eye like it has been on the forum,she is this year in a high public office, and should only be seen as the public would
expect.This does not mean she is not making a good mayor but she must be seen as a mayor for that year 24/7 - cor blimey govner i thought i opend the current bun on
to page 2.had to have a 5 minute lie down and a strong cup of rosy lee,before i could read the text. - WELL IVE GOT THROUGH TO THE FINALS OF DICK WHITTINGTON AUDITIONS IN
SEVENOAKS - Goodluck to Lorraine with her book i'll be borrowing Pauls copy to read those very interesting stories. And Sue thanks for inviting us along to your party and
allowing me to play photographer and take the pictures everyone had a very plesant evening. - I see there are no comments on what I said.
- OR ME LIKE WELL DONE
- Well done Kah hope you get the part.
Vic I don't think many care what the mayor does people
are fed up with this Council. - Sue and Suzi, Just to say thanks for a lovely evening, really enjoyed ourselves and the cakes were yummy. Was nice to see and chat to so many
friends. - Vic you are actually making a legitimate point there, with regard to the Mayor being only seen officially during her year, but while no doubt
some might agree with it, I myself wouldn't as obviously Ive shown the feature above... of The Mayor 'letting her hair down'. It is an interesting story in the sense that both herself and daughter are having milestone birthday
celebrations so it does have the 'human interest' angle. It is also sometimes forgotten that councillors are human beings, yes really, most even have fulltime jobs, and still try to do their bit for the community, so lets show the
human side...occasionally. - I can see where Vic is coming from, but I would also like to agree with PaulB.
Apart from the rights or wrongs of being
photographed as an individual, Sue is a very sensible and hard-working Lady and appreciates that as well as being a normal person, she is also Mayor of Dover, so would never do anything that would bring her or the position of Mayor into
disrepute.
Roger - I too see where Vic is coming from .Councillors are always in the public eye .Sue ( Jones ) is not the only one who lets
her hair down in public .I could name a few but we will not go down that road .
Over years of public duty one has to learn to smile,listen to peoples problems and always be interested in everything .Once your front door closes
then you can relax .
Last year I had bad press over a Brownie event .There were very strong reasons why I left the event but thats another story .This year I was punished as I spoke my mind over the TV Screen .
The code of
conduct is very strong and once you are appointed to hold office life is not quite the same . - vic,i understand what you are saying,but people in power ie,mayour/councler/mps
etc do have a life outside of office.if sue jones and her counter parts work hard they do need time out to relax etc,as long as it dosent interfear with there office. - All I am
saying is when you hold that office and it is only for one year,you must be seen by the public to be the person not only the Town council but also representative or symbol of the Town and also she is the representative of all the
C/Ports,and what you are seeing does not look good to outsides this forum can be seen all around the world,they do not know the Mayor like some of us do ,I did not say ay anytime that she was not a heard worker, but the outside world
only see what has been put on this open page,I must say this should not have gone out on the forum,sorry but that is the way i feel but again it is only me I am talking for myself and that is all. - Soon be MAY and a new mayor
- Sue N
I think people think more of you for speaking your mind.
the losers are
the tory party
its not punishment its givenm you a new life use it - Yes,And I think we all know who will be the next Mayor it is going around again,last year it was
just a one off and it was good to see but will it happen again this year,we might even see some more new face,s on the council,now that would turn things round but I must still say over the years it is still the reds that do most of the
work on the council, again it is only me talking on how I see things and I could be wrong and not for the first time.Will I stand again at this time I fine it hard just to stand upright, but after my legs are done -------- - Sorry about that it should read hard worker not heard worker,but I am geting better on my wording (I think).
- Sue Nicholas it may be uncomfortable for one or two but it looks like your position on the screen may have been the right one. Although it looks pleasant enough as a piece of
street furniture it is not something that people have lingered in front of for any period of time, no matter what was being shown.
Although the DDC like to spin it up, I have seen to the contrary. There was also a very interesting
letter expressing the same view in the Dover Express this week from Horace Holyer, the man who distributes Dover leaflets at one side of the Square, who said the figures issued by the DDC were wildly exagerated at a whole series of
events there. He is there, he has seen the truth.
Yes Vic the next Mayor election could be interesting but wouldnt hold your breath with regard to new faces. I would hope that whoever they elect will bring some harmony to the Town
Council. They are extremely disunited. - i feel the money that was spent on the TV would have been better used to improve the face of the Market Square. Perhaps
open a couple of "french" bistro cafe etc to encourage people into that area. At the moment TV or not it is used as a walkway to other areas that is all. I have seen very few people even take notice of the blinking thing !!! DDC have
so put a spin on this. - victor
whose turn is it to be mayor next year?
- jasper
who
would finance these french style bistros in market square? - Howard,I would say Mrs Tranter could be the next Mayor.
- no its gorden cowen its allready in the bag.
- Last year reds did not vote the way they were told to,that is why Mrs
Jones got the job,will they do the same next year?it is wait and see,but before then we might just have the G/E and that could turn things around some what,if the blues put up more for the seats at the town council,and looking beween the
lines they could have more seats than the reds that would mean a blue could get the job of next mayor.But the Town council as we all know has no power so does it matter one way or the other,I think it does if the Dis is blue and the town
is the same they will work with each other,and talk with each other. - Max I do not agree with you on that one,but we will see.
- you have definitely narrowed it down victor, there is only one blue on the town council.
i doubt whether they will bother to get more involved in the town
council. - I am told Mr Cowen is not no1 in the reds anymore,but I do not know if that is true,but
what is true that the reds might just lose even more seats on the district next year and even Mr Cowen might also lose his seat,if that be the case,I think if that happens it will not be good for the Town or District Mr Cowen is a very
good talker and good at geting his points over at meetings,I would not like to see all blues on any council and that can be said about the reds aswell. - Vic
,
There are no District or Town Council elections next year.Its 2011.
So following on as previous years the nexy Mayor will be from the Labour Group .probably recycled - Howard - the money that was spent should have been spent to re develope the market sqare, that what i was saying !!!
- Jasper if you want to join in the discussions in
the Members Club drop me an email. I need an email for the log in to work. I log you in from this end. But if you want to stay lose thats fine too. - Hi Paul B i
have a hotmail account will that suffice? - Max long way to go before they even start talking about the next Mayor,and i am sure Gordon Cowan's name will be in the hat so will
Ronnie Philpott,who has never been Mayor,Jan Tranter and even Sue Jones could also be in with a shout,but alot of water has to pass under the bridge before anyone will be Mayor. - Cllr JHGoodwin...youve just made the 3000th posting on this Page. Golly gosh wow etc etc!.. Oi'll have to be buying you a drink so I will.. the next time I bump into you...if I have my wallet with me that is, but alas alas I
aint seen that particular item since my daughter made off with it ..last seen heading to the girlie shops in Canterbury!
Yes next years Mayor contest will be interesting. A number of potential possibilities, we may have to open a
book on it!
Yes hotmail is fine Jasper but in order for the thing to kick in it needs an email address, so drop me a line even if its about the weather!!lol - The Mighty Paul Boland buying me a drink!!!!!!!!!
Make sure it is not near an election and the other thing is I rarely drink,because of work drink/shifts/railway doesn't always go together.The other reason when I do have a
drink or two is normally in a place where there are not normally any press or not many members of the public.
So hanks very much Paul but donate the money if you find your wallet to
Charity.
John - THANKS ALAN
- your economy with words does you credit kim.
how long before we get the next
syllable? - Like you I wasn't here then Paul, but whenever it was and where ever, to murder 11 Bandsmen - non-combatants, was just wicked in the extreme.
I
remember hearing about in the comfort of our home in Barnet; Deal was somewhere miles away, that I'd never heard of, nor likely (so I thought) to visit.
A massive wrong, where ever you come from.
Roger
- Roger yes it is clearly a difficult topic but I did wonder if anyone would like to fill us in as to what it was like here at the time. What effect this bomb
had on the local communities. It is quite a terror ordeal to live with the prospect of imminent attacks. Just not knowing whats going to be struck next is the terrible
difficulty. - I was living in Dover at the time and we often visited the barracks to play football against the junior bandsmen.They were as fit as fiddles.
Security prior to the bomb was routine a quick search underneath your motor and off we went and had pretty much access to the camp. I must stress however that we were afforded better treatment as we were all in another govt service and
carried warrants with our photos on I'm not sure if the team from the local boozer was afforded the same welcoming.
The day the bomb went off.... a cloud not only a physical one but emotional one covered the whole of this East
corner of Kent.It was unbelievable.The amount of young lives lost was tragic and again took time to sink in.
As PaulB rightly says the Irish in the area had to keep their heads down for fear of reprisals from local
thugs.
Security at the Docks was tightened and all passengers embarking or arriving were checked thoroughly.Bomb threats then became common with govt offices and especially the docks being closed down on more than one occasion.
Fire and safety drills were carried out on a routine basis and generally speaking smuggling a couple of extra fags and df vodka in our official cases stopped ...for a while...ahem.
Needless to say football matches, social
occasions and the band playing on Deal and Folkestone Seafronts stopped for a good long while.
Somehow it marked the beginning of the end of this corner of Kent being garrison towns. - I remember the day well .I was busy in the Godwyne Area of Dover collecting for a national charity .My first few years on DDC were marked with events which remain with you for ever
.1987 we had the Herald of Free Enterprise tragedy,the Chairman of the Council attended so many funerals .We had the seamans strike and for years the closure of the mines was always a hot potatoe in the council chamber .Back to the Deal
Bombing it badly effected the Deal members ,Mrs McNicholas was the Deal Mayor at that time /Paul Watkins played a big part with helping relatives of the dead and injured .It cast an air of gloom for a long time .Marek was right it
seemed to mark the end of army,marines being stationed in East Kent .
- Wot did it for me was I attended a Royal marines panto a few days before this tragic day, and some of
those in the cast sadly died.
They were all very chatty at the panto even came in to chat later in the evening.
It will be one of those events that will never leave me - that must have made it a lot worse keith, seeing them so close to the disaster.
bad enough seeing it on the news, without knowing, albeit briefly, some of the victims. - Sue AND others
Whilst I may have diffrences in how the town council operates I feel your comments give hard working town cllrs a dis-
service.
There are town cllrs (also labour town cllrs) that work hard for Dover.
To say they are recycled mayors is an insult to those that do the job, and those that work hard at it.
That said lets now go a little
deeper and reply to some of the incorrect comments on the election of mayor.
Rightly or wrongly labour town cllrs were firstly selected by the labour PARTY to represent the labour party.
They then went into the election
as LABOUR town cllrs.
On there selection as a LABOUR candidate they are asked if they will abide by LABOUR party decisions so it should come as no shock that some decided not to.
When your part of a club you abide by that clubs
rules, if you dont want to (and no one forces you to) you can instead stand as a tory/lib dem/indy. I have no problem what so ever with those that do.
My problem is, having got selected as a LABOUR candidate, a decision was made
, voted on , and no one spoke against it!!!!
To find not only did 4 so called labour people not support this decision, but could have corrected this at a later date but chose not to.
So to me (and im not active in the
labour party now)
it is about, do you want to be part of this club or not? if you dont, then dont use there resources to get you elected, when your not going to stand by what you signed up to.
There are serious implications for
the labour party if this is left in the hope it will go away(it wont)
I have aired my views to the party.
so there you have it - Keith is right that if you sign up to
the Labour party you sign up to the rules,I have never really agreed with party lines because I like to make my own mind up,yet being a third generation socalist the party doesn't have to tell me which way to vote,I already
know,sometimes there are difference of opinions so we have a discussion and vote.
I remember when the same problem came up when George Allt was nominated by the Indepedants against the Labour group,at that time I was deputy Mayor
elect. - This is taken from the Mercury Thursday 10.9.09 page 3
It was a report about probationer police officers helping British Transport Police in a 2 day operation at
Dovewr Priory Station.
The bit that caught my eye was the following:
The ticket office at Dover Priory reported that revenue from takings was up by about £1,000.00 on each day of the operation, which suggests the police
presence had a positive impact by deterring fare dodgers...
£1,000.00 each day? If they had a few months of checking tickets they would have a nice sum of money to put towards the staion
improvements.
- i find that report hard to believe, when i take a train my ticket gets checked many times, even on a short trip.
- I read that and so did my work mates,as we work in the ticket office it was news to us,although it is surprising how some people remember to buy a ticket when the Police or
REO's are in attendance. - the mine being searched for turned out to be a buoy laid there by scientists.
- I
ask everyone to note those comments of Keith below. We were told for many years that there was no political input to DTC by the labour party.
What is agreed by Keith that there is.
He has stated what we all know, that
decisions by the Labour party are taken outside of the Council Chamber and the vote by Councillors is pre-empted by a vote in the "Club" outside.
It is exactly this undemocratic system that the Dover Alliance was formed to stop.
In 6 years I have seen many examples of decisions made outside the chamber by the labour party making it frustrating for those of us that want open government. I give the example of the 29% rate rise two years ago. The annual election
of the Mayor is another.
The Standards board state that councillors must vote individually but this is ignored by that Party.
I will not open up this debate at this time but be assured that in a years time we will be
repeating the principle of free speech.
Thank you Keith and John for stating the truth here at last.
- This has been denied so many times in the
past, why admit to it now ?
I can honestly say this does NOT happen with the Conservatives - Councillors only make the decisions.
Roger - David
Some smoke you put up there!!!!!
please dont do your whiter than white alliance fing, it don't wash!!!
The alliance also meets and attempts to pressure indys to support a line, and don't tell me it
doesn't happen cos iv had many discussions with indy cllrs who tell me it does!!! so lets not get into this alliance are pure stuff because David you know its rubbish!!!!
We have people looking in who may want to believe you
!!!!
Maybe Vic and others might like to comment on the alliance pressure to vote one way or another!!!
Getting back to the serious thread, I have at no time denied the labour group meets(as do all other political parties at
every level of govt and across the country, nowt new there, the indys also meet as a group across the country as a political party, so lets scupper that one to start off with!!
My position has always been very clear, and iv
posted before on this, I believe in local govt and decision making to be at the lowest possible level, even into communities running there own wards!!!
All the time the labour party put up candidates(as do tories, lib dem, and the
independent alliance party) then those that decide they wat to be selected by the LABOUR party to stand in the very first place, and financed by the LABOUR party then they abide by the rules set out which they are all aware of.
My
own view at this time is that unless the present saga is not ironed out and never repeated then the LABOUR party should withdraw from town council elections and allow those that want to continue to stand to do so, but not under a labour
banner.
A second view i hold would be to only canvass/finance/support those LABOUR cllrs willing to abide by the LABOUR party rules they signed up to and others who dont, wont get any such support.
You can see that unlike
David Im open an honest in my opinions, and tell it how it is, sadly because David prefers to keep things hidden on how his political party operates its so easy to knock others.
I'm aware not much will change, this will always be
an issue.
On the democratic front, lets be clear, Labour cllrs do elected each year but thats because the electorate each 4 years continue to elect a LABOUR administration on the town council, and the alliance party have never
realy made any in roads into this majority.
The way to change this David is to get more alliance political party cllrs elected enough to get a majority.
Just study David(as you are fully aware) this situation is no diffrent across
the country.
Its up to you David to get more cllrs, or maybe even get your present ones to do more?
Dont cry sour grapes david, do more all the year round and get them alliance political party cllrs elected
have to say Iv never
met the ones representing my ward in my area
maybe thats where the aliance political party problems lie? - Keith, I think you are wrong on this one about the Ind/Alliance on
the Town Council,I do not know about today,but when I was on the Town Council there was no pressure as you put it to vote on anything even when I was in the Alliance we just voted the way we wanted to,we was not told by anyone not David
even,to which way we should vote,so mate sorry again but you are wrong on that one. Vic M - David we belong to the Labour Party as in group,our strength is that
group,yes once in a while people may wobble and disagree with the group and we cover a wide range of causes and ideas,again that gives us strength,that is why we meet as a group and as I have said I am not a fan of agreeing the 'Party'
Line but then I have never disagreed with it Locally.
Going back to the Indies not meeting they may not now but I know they had meetings when I was on the Town Council because they as a group decided to back George Allt as Mayor
against the Labour groups wishes,and we all know at times it didn't work out too well,it was only good cover work by the Deputy Mayor Committee Chairman the Town Seargeant and Council Staff that saved Dover Town Council from becoming a
laughing stock,and although George was a nice man he was sometimes difficult at Mayoral functions etc,and in one duty that I was with him caused uproar by his actions. - I refuse
to getinto personal issues as Keith states however his assuptions and personal statements are completely unfounded. If any other person states that I am not honest in my opinion then I would be offended and act accordingly
I look
forward to Keiths apology for that. - i thought that town and parish councils were supposed to be made up of individuals that cared about their immediate
surroundings.
yet again it seems that organised factions have taken over ours to the benefit of no-one in particular.
maybe it is time to disband it and leave district and county to run things? - Keith. I see that, once again, you are regergitating this nonsense about the Alliance. As one of those councillors I can state catagorically that we have never been under
nor put any others under any pressure as to how to vote. Should anyone try I would probably ignore them anyway as I always vote according to my own feeling of what is best for the town and the ward that elected me. I stood, and assumed
others did, in order to represent the ward that elected me and now you are stating that this is not the case with Labour councillors who stand only to represent the Labour Party. Surely this is not only undemocratic but also doing a
huge disservice to the electorate. Is this a clear message that your members will disregard anything to do with the town or their wards that does not fully agree with Party policy?
As to Alliance 'meetings' I can honestly state
that the only time I have ever taken part in any voting at them is during the AGM when we elect a chairman etc. as required by the Electoral Commission other than that every meeting I have attended (and that is most of them) has been a
relaxed sharing of ideas and information. We are quite happy to leave the plotting and peer pressure tactics to those more interested in politics than in the town. - Please let me make it clear,I left the indies because I wanted to go by my self.When George was Mayor I was there,and at no time did the
Indies have any meeting,s about George or the reds and how to go about geting them out the Indies always voted the way they wanted not as a group taking orders,Again I am talking as a outsider with nothing to gain or other wise.
So I
hope now that has made it clear to all, after being voted of the council I have not had any major talk to any of them,I always found that they and the reds were mostly geting on with each other and the cllrs that did work on both sides
also worked with each other well,if any I was the odd one out.
So please it is all in the pass and now is the time to move on again,and I hope they are still working with each other,but I am not there so do not know.
I remain
yours faithfully Vic Matcham - I REMEBER THE PADDLE STEAMER WAVERLEY.I WENT ON HER MANY YEARS AGO FROM FOLKESTONE HARBOUR TO SMUGGLERS BAY OUT TO GREENWHICH.I
VERY MUCH ENJOYED THE TRIP. - I was planning to go on her with my wife today but it is my retirement meal tonight,and i am looking forward
to it,so the trip will be next year now. - Nice to hear from you Ronald, glad the picture was able to bring back some good memories. Maybe you should have had your
retirement meal onboard Vic...might have been good. - What a wonderful paddle steamer.
- What
a wonderful way to travel if the sea is calm. At only £40 return to london its not that much more expensive than the train fare ! - Having just returned from a
fantastic walking holiday on North Yorks moors am catching up on postings.
Certainly the Dover Town Council (DTC) has been "politically" led and as the DTC has only the powers of a Parish Council I wonder why so much party
politics.
The elected Councillors (whatever party) should work to the common objective of ensuring the much needed regeneration of the town. With a "precept" budget of some £650k one must ask what are we getting for this from
DTC. Certainly it seems that a lot is spent on admin ( to be fair DDC and KCC are equally as bad) and there should be a detailed look at the admin expenditure. Obviously it is DDC that have the larger purse for regeneration projects but
DTC should be pressing for the investment the town needs.
Until the political wrangling ceases the DTC will not hold any credibility, the people of Dover deserve Councillors that are prepared to fight for Dovers needs and not
their own party political aspirations.In this context David is right.
Anyway another issue. Cleanliness--- The town needs to be much cleaner. On my holiday we stayed a couple of days at Lincoln.It was so pleasing to see a city
free of cigarette ends/chewing gum and general litter (beer cans etc) This achieved by fines (£75 for discarding a cigarette end) being rigorously enforced as the city provides adequate rubish and cigarette bins that are emptied on a
regular basis.
Talking to both young and old in Lincoln it became apparent they are proud of their city (including students at the University who are only there for a couple of years) and are quite happy with the strict control by
fines. Perhaps Dover has something to learn.
- we cannot even afford a "parkie" to oversee pencester gardens, i doubt whether on the spot fines for obvious
misdemeanours will ever reach dover.
the council has been taking away rubbish bins over the last few years too.
at least it saves money on emptying them. - Lovely old ship the Waverley; can't belive it's only £40 return to London, seems extremely cheap, for such a leisurely and pleasurely mode of transport.
I hope I'm not misunderstanding this, but how can a political
party of unelected people (just members of the party) tell Councillors (the elected ones), how to vote and what to do to move Dover Forward.
Any decisions made by Councillors must only be made by those elected Councillors -
irrespective of the Party, this is not what the voters elected them for - is it ?
Glad that you had a good holiday in North Yorkshire and Lincoln Pat, sounds great.
Cleanliness is an issue here and despite the efforts of
Tyrone and the other street cleaners, Dover still has far too much litter and rubbish around.
You can see young and old(er) people just dropping their litter anywhere they want to; part of the problem is there needs to be more bins -
the cost of emptying them, should be paid for by on-the-spot fines; the problem then is that we don't have enough Policemen to issue those fines.
We don't have enough Town Policemen/women to stop cars from driving up Cannon
Street and Biggin Street (from Market Square), during the day to issue "moving traffic offence" tickets, so until WE can decide how many and how the Police are used, we should try to promote Dover as a beautiful Town and we need help
to keep it that way - I do have ideas to help this, but it needs people to have Pride in their Town (again) as well.
Roger - Roger
Yes
you are misunderstanding this, 11 elected councillors on DTC (Labour) they have a group meeting, and decide whether they agree what is being put forward that evening or not, when they have made a decision the group usually stand by that
decision, you might have 3 against and 8 for, but on the night the majority vote has been decided and you stick to it
Sheila - Lovely shot of the Waverley, Paul.
- Totally agree with Pat S's sentiments below.
Keep plastic politics out of pumped-up parish quangos. Dover's regeneration should be the one and only priority for the great
and the good of the town. Nothing else. - I thought politics was all about influencing people....? I may be wrong, but surely the conversations and chatter that go on "outside
chambers" is part and parcel of the whole thing? Decisions are not made in isolation, some conversations need to be had for decisions to be created and made. Pressure and subterfuge would be wrong, but conversations, dicsussions, and
meeting outside the doors must be a part of the process......? - There was indeed a meeting behind closed doors to ensure George(Allt) became mayor,but it was at the home of Diane
Smallwood and all present were Labour town councillors. Bob Markham was initially to become mayor but several of us felt that George as a reward for many years as a stalwart Labour party member should be given the honour. After much
wrangling an agreement was reached that despite many reservations, George would be mayor followed by Bob.
The Independants by virtue of having a minority on the council were considered to be irrellevent, something they wont be after
the next election.
- Nice to know the Towns Representative is so responsive to local views................
- Thanks
Sheila for your explanation.
Keith seemed to imply something completely different - that members of the local Labour Party (not necessarily Councillors, but just members of the Labour party), were/are telling the Councillors how
to vote and this must be wrong - surely ?
Before each Full Council meeting, the Conservatives (and Labour) have a group meeting, where the Leader advises us of new initiatives and things he has been doing; we also go through the
Council Agenda, but we are not TOLD how to vote, he'll explain the reasons for why whatever should be voted for or against and if anyone needs clarification, it is always
forthcoming. - What happens if you don't agree with the Leader Roger,ask Sue kicked into touch for saying what she believed in,we also have the same meeting and
decide on which way we want to agree or disagree on an item.If we have a different view and that is our job to look at things from a different angle,we then decide which of our Councillors is an expert on the subject,and they lead
followed by anyone else who has an input.
We are not told by the Labour Party how to vote we decide between ourselves and as I have said before I have never disagreed with the general socialist way of
voting. - WHAT A 24 HOURS PLUS IVE HAD WENT AS A OSERVER FOR THE CHANNEL SWIMMERS GOT TO FRANCE THEN GOT STUCK ON THE SAND BED SO HAD TO WAIT TILL 5AM IN THE MORNING FOR THE TIDE TO
COME IN TO BE ABLE TO GET OFF IT - Roger to some extent is correct,however there are some who will always take the easy way out .Im not that sort of councillor and will always do
what I believe in .Usually I can go with the flow.I have still to find someone in River who agrees that the TV is a good idea.I have found great sympathy and respect .
I pay my dues to the Conservative Party and support some of
their fund raising events .,however they do not own me and never will .
I listen to those who elected me .
I have no problem with Cllr Watkins just some of the hangers on .
- Yesterday, Saturday, I went on a White Cliffs Boat Trip from the Tidal Basin – near the Clock Tower. This is run by Richard Mahoney. It was great trip, reasonably priced and patronised by tourists of different nationalities.
When we arrived back there were already three tourists waiting to go on the next trip – they were being looked after by Mavis, and had been provided with a mug of tea.
A couple of weeks ago I went to the Roman Painted House, with
the Greeters – an association of locals who tell visitors to Dover about our great town. Although the Roman Painted House was closed some tourists had found their way there and Brian Philp – who is there most days even in winter – let
them in, and again they felt the time well spent.
Both Richard Mahoney and Brian Philp have worked hard to promote tourism in Dover, from their different perspectives yet both have been rejected by Dover’s official tourism body –
the WCCTA – why?
Lorraine
- John(JHG). You say you have never disagreed with the socialist way of voting, but I must disagree with you. When Mike Webb
was appointed as Town Clerk you made what I believe for you was the supreme sacrifice,you resigned from the Town Council and thereby the position of deputy Mayor and to be the next Mayor. Yet Mike had been nominated by 3 Labour and 1
Independant councillor(the interviewing panel) and the nomination was accepted by 9 Labour and 6 Independants councillors to the absolute chagrin of the local Labour Party. I myself had said to Keith Sansum that he would be appointed
over my dead body,he was and I much to the disgust of him and others, I am very much alive and kicking. Surely in a democratic and presumably socialist society the majority vote carries the day and you accept the decision.
As a
complete aside, I and others think you would have been an excellent mayor but you denied us the chance to find out. - Great Photos. PaulB needs a haircut!.Roger and Jean look
divine and Big David and Linda dance beautifully together.Sorry I missed it but thanks for the reports for us exiles. Love it. Regards to Gehan from the Ramada. - Looks cool, well done to all involved there.
- What a fabulous evening we all had at the Ramada Hotel and its good to hear that almost £8000
was raised for the Beyond the Moon charity. Many thanks to Gehan, Trevor, Sheli and all at the hotel who worked so hard to make this very worthy event possible.Great food, Great entertainment, Great
night. - What a brill place the Ramada is and Trevor Bond is lovely. Wish I could have stayed longer, the time flew past.
Congrats to all who helped
raise so much money for the children's charity. - Looks like a splendid evening, lovely photos of all the glam looking ladies (oh...ok, and you PaulB)! What a great shot of
Roger and Jean. - Ken the decision to resign from the Town Council was a decision I made when you told me so I didn't check with anyone and didn't know if there was
a party line,I knew Mike from previously and knew he was not qualified to do the Job,I understand he is or has taken the process now.You will recall that 2 other Cllrs resigned soon after.
That was only 1 of 3 reasons why I
resigned,and as you said Mike would become Town Clerk over your dead body,can you tell us who the Cllrs were who short listed and then did the final interview.You may recall that you and I were on the first panel with George Allt and Vic
Matcham,then the short list was shortened again,and who were the Cllrs who did that.
I have spoken to Mike in the last year and explained my position and I think he understands why,one of the other reasons were the Town Council
were trying to 'take over'the Regatta,Mike was also involved with my extended family when he worked at Ash.
I could not at that time trust The Mayor (Ken) as you assured me he would not get the job,I could not trust the Council
as they were trying to take over a succesful event,little wonder I resigned,and as you told me before the last District Council elections 'People don't like quitters' and I excepted that but people except someone with
principles.
Becoming Mayor would have been a great honour as being Deputy Mayor was,but I was not going to do the job by back-stabbing and lying and being a puppet to some of the Senior Councillors.
Even standing as a
District Councillor I had to fight the old guard from the Town Council and beat them for the nomination,I was elected that is not big headed because I try my hardest in my Ward you weren't a shame but that as they say is
democracy. - Good to see the total amount raised at the ramada for beyond the moon charity, very enjoyable evening and the entertainment was excellent.Well done to all those who
work to make sure everyone had a good time. and a good spread of pictures to show off the evening. - John it was me,but why are we still going on about it years later? Mr
Webb was not the first choice as you know, I can not say any more about that.so next day it came back to the committee which I was still one of.Our first choice was a very good one and the person would have been a good Town Clark,anyway
Mr Webb was next on the list by a long way so he got the job. Now please can we move away from this. - JHG - good on
you and fair play to you. - Vic,see Ken's postings earlier.What I was getting at was the shortlisting was done by 4 people and then the extra shortlisting was done by 3 of the
same people. - sorry that was from me Vic
- if my memory is correct the first choice(also selected) for the post of town
clerk was a struck off solicitor.
can anyone confirm this? - Sorry you are wrong on that one ,the person you are on about was the town clerk What John is on
about came after that,I was on both the committees the first and the second one, It would not be fair of me to talk about the first choice for the town clerk or why he was not taken on again all in the pass again can we please move
on - But Vic, it was you, and keith who started it!!!!
- Lorraine S made an interesting post there below on
Sept 27 about two tourist enterprise peeps who are failing to get recognition from the local tourist body. The two services mentioned were the Roman Painted House and the Boat Tours around the harbour. I must admit myself that I have
never been in the Roman Painted House but I understand people like it. I have though often seen the Boat Tour chap Mr Mahoney in constant action. I see his boat making its way round the harbour often, and offering a very enjoyable
experience to our visitors. We have had great and positive feedback about these trips before. So why they are failing to be either encouraged or recognised for their work and effort is hard to fathom.
As we know our own Roger
Walkden had to struggle to get his French promotion leaflet done with little or no support. There doesnt seem to be any joined up thinking when it comes to promoting Dover's assets to potential visitors.
ps. Glad people are
enjoying the Ramada Charity coverage. Lots of money for a good cause. have taken note of the fact that I need a haircut as pointed out by top man Marek..and of course flattery will get you everywhere so have put Jeane on the top of my
Christmas card list !!lol - Howard. There was indeed a struck off solicitor who was appointed and was eventually dismissed. However further interviews were made and
a someone chosen, but DTC having been 'conned' previously, the successful candidates name was 'googled' and lo and behold he too had undisclosed history.
John I genuinely believed that Mike would never be appointed but the power
of the press and other councillors wishing to see the matter resolved put paid to that. - paul
the man in charge of the painted house is apparently very much a lone
ranger.
this can make it difficult to get grants and other help.
- I should have given credit to Vic for having doubts and intuition in suspecting
that the candidate who was 'googled' was not all that he seemed. - Lovely to see the photos and comments regarding Friday night's charity events at the Ramada Hotel. I was the
girl on stage in the white boots and the chap on guitar is my partner, Andy. Unfortunately, the bass guitarist was laid up in bed with suspected pneumonia so missed all the fun. Despite being one man down, we are pleased that you all
enjoyed the 60s music and hope to see you again in the near future. You were a really lovely crowd to play to (especially it being my first time, as you know)! We shall be playing at the Ramada over Christmas if anyone is interested in
joining us for more 60s fun! Regards to you all - Leah ( and The Swinging 60s) - Leah nice to hear from you. Yourself and Andy did a great show, apologies I didnt know
your names for the copy above...I also didnt realise you were a man short in the band so when you consider all that it was very good indeed. Hope to see you all together in action sometime in the coming
season. - I am sorry about this,but PAUL can you now aske that no more be said about the old town clerk story,Mr Webb is still unwell at this time + it is not fair to talk about
what happen then,I agree I have not helped in puting a stop to it. - Vic I note your concerns but there isnt anything there that warrants interference from me. Its
all quite mild, nothing offensive or anything like that, and very interesting too. I dont think there is any need for you to be concerned about Town Clerk Mike Webb as Im sure Mike knows very well he wasnt everyone's cup of tea for the
job originally. - All in a good cause and the venue looks fab contary to some opionions i aired before, but still the same old faces again and again and again,
they must love the freebies !!!! Come on Dover lets get some new blood in this ??? - no freebies jasper, everyone paid for their ticket.
- Jasper I could say that once again thats the same old same old same old post from you. This 'social' aspect is what we do. See our strapline under our title. It might
occur to you that if you dont like it, you may be coming on the wrong website. After all if for example we were a wedding planner website and you didnt like weddings....well... well you can guess the rest.
Ive explained all this
before so hopefully this will be the last time its needed ..at social events we do tend to focus on both officials and people who are members of this Members Club. Thats what we do and are likely to continue to do. Nobody wants to see a
picture of John Smith although Ive nothing against John Smith.
We do however bring a wide variety, yes a wide variety, of frontpages and its all voluntary. I dont see you making a contribution to help us out Jasper. Lets see a
frontpage story from you then..if its any good we will be happy to run it!! So take up the challenge!!??? You'll get paid the same as we do - nothing!
I have to be honest there is also a smear there on people who raised quite a
lot of money and paid out handsomely to do it..so I have to tell you now thats not really acceptable. - I must say all the ladys do look great ,some of the men are looking
older,it is no good I have been in the background far to long so the matchams are coming out again so you just let me know where and when the events are on and we will be there. - Well done Leah, as I told you I saw Sandy Shaw at the Talk of the town 44years ago and the Shadows at Dover Granada about 50 years ago and you and Andy did a great
performance.
I ended up with three auction prizes that were great value but thats not the point nor how much it cost or how much Michelle and team got out of us but the fact that we had a great night and willingly parted with cash
for a great cause.
Next please.. but please take my photo off......
- Ah yes Vic the ladies always stay the same, they never age and all look great
( I know how to stay out of trouble!!) its us oul geezers that get older.
Big Dave only another day to endure with the photograph and you are scheduled to be replaced by Gwyn himself! Well done though for parting with all that
cash. - You would say that Paul B, it seems if you dont like what someone is saying you take it personally !!!! i like you am entitled to my opinion and can say
what i feel again like you. But really are these personal attacks really necessary from you all the time. I think you say the same thing a lot of the time to but i do not reduce the situation to a personal attack on you like you do to
me!!!! this is a public site and i will continue to express my feeling as and when i want to whether you value that or not !!!!
Oh Paul B if you read my posting you would also notice that a did congratulate the good cause so
please again get the story right before replying !!! with people coming down on individuals all the time it reminds me of a school yard bully !! - Ermmm Jasper relax...I dont
think there is any personal attack on you from me. I cant see it. I generally like your posts and they are very welcome. I cant however allow snipes at the people in the photographs as its counter productive to what we do. Do you
understand that, Ive tried to explain it oodles of times now....I would have to delete it in future so please be aware. Im not sure what you mean about this being a public site...its about as public as I wanna make it! Lets be clear
there is nobody keeping it on air except me.
Because this site is open completely I need people like yourself to co-operate ,I do bring something for everybody on the frontpage... so lets be fair even when there are things up you
may not like, the other alternative would be to get into a delayed post scenario as other sites do where everything gets approved first before it goes up. I dont want to do that..live is good but it requires responsibility from all. I
have to be fair to all including those in the photos and at the events. - Fair is good Paul ... i should re read your posting to me i found it rude to be honest
Paul and yes it felt personal. And to reiterate my point if you read it again i did say well done on the good cause ????? you dont have to explain things to me oodles of times Paul, i get it! i dont have to like it though do i ??? surley
the people of Dover would like to see fresh faces given the chance that was the point i was making. Why cant youngesters be given free dining and dance i am sure they would love it. May get a few of them off the street if councils etc
gave them that opportunity?
I wasnt trying to demean any work anybody does or is doing but i do stand by what i said, it would be nice to see a different side of things not just the """" same old faces""" unquote. As for
free time i work full time and hold volenteer at the stables to help the disabled kids with there riding. I am also assisting my daughter in helping her with her nursing degree typing etc. Oh and in what little time i have left i do the
odd day helping out at Canterbury Hospitial.And hold down a full time job. like you said in your posting all for nothing but unlike you i dont need a pat on the back for it !!! You do good work Paul but i really feel you should step
back and look at what you are saying from time to time. Quote "its as public as i want to make it" dont you think that the arrogrance in that statement could be upsetting? i do and will coo-operate Paul like a good person being told
and i do appreciate you have to mointer the situation but really getting a bee in your bonnet over my line "bring on some new faces " is harldly concern for the attack ?? i dont think so.
- Okay Jasper fair enough I take onboard all that there. There are one or two things I would like to respond too but I cant right now so I'll leave it at that. I might have over reacted
a tad but maybe that was because of the previous posting that i had to delete for legal purposes. Made me over cautious I guess. - OK Paul lets agree to disagree on
this one, i note an apology wasnt forthcoming but it will have to do. Enjoy the rest of your day and like i said i did apologies for the previous posting on the hotel and you knew i did. - jasper
maybe you would like to apologise to the people that you accused of having freebies? - Good to see
that the people of Shepherdswell are getting what they want. I believe that quite an outcry was taking place in their community re the train situation above, so this should make our local MP very popular over in Shepherdswell. All these
meetings in the corridors of power can pay off and bring much improvements locally in all walks of life...you often need to exercise some charismatic wheeling and dealing and dining to get what you want for your community. Well done Gwyn
on this one. - I wonder if our local MP achieved anything for Kearsney,the stop for Temple Ewell and River .I know a lot of people use the train for getting to and
fro the local nursing homes .
I have not been active on this cause as the revised bus services having taken up my time .I did mention to Nigel but I think he is more intereted in the Hi Speed link .Worthy that it is we must not
forget some people need local services .So Charlie you will have to work hard to get one over Gwyn Grass Roots - that is good news, good to know that our MP is working quietly
in the background and getting things done
susan
the kearsney area has adequate bus services. - Not so Howard .If you want to get beyond CanterburyIf you live
in Sheperdswell or stations before the girls working in the Nursing homes rely on the train service .Kearsney is very popular early morning .
y - Howard - why would i do
that? its my belief that it was a freebie!! like i said i have agreed to disagree on this with Paul B please dont jump on the band wagon too.
Good new for all concerned on the High Speed, a member of my family is training at the
moment to drive one of these beauty's so i have a personal intrest in it. The more services the better. - Well done Gwynn,we have had to fend off lots of complaints reguarding
the new Dec Timetable as it meant a lot of people would have had problems getting to Kearsney and Shepherdswell and I am sure that Gwynn is working on the High speed at Deal. - Dear Jasper,
I would be happy to discuss your issues, should you wish to contact me my direct line is 01304 872841 or you can email me at events@ramadadover.co.uk.
Rest assured that all comments are taken
seriously and investigated by the Management to ensure that we continue to provide an exemplary service.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Kind regards,
Michelle
Sheppard - Perhaps somebody could clarify one point for me, if Gwnn Prossor was at the forefront of bringing the HS Train to Dover, why has Nigel Collor been given most
of the credit?
What exactly was Collor able to achieve that Prossor didn't? - local knoledge and a fighting sprite.
- Gwyn had meetings with Southeastern and I know Nigel did as well as officers from DDC,but without doubt the main lobbying came from Gwyn with former Transport Sec Steven Ladyman at
Thanet of course having Highspeed in this area is also a benefit for Ramsgate for jobs,housing,tourists etc. - Interesting JHG, reading through some of the postings on here gave
the impression that Nigel had achieved bringing the HS train to Dover virtually singlehanded.
Now we know that his role was somewhat of a minor one and that the real credit should be given to Gwynn
Prossor. - Both colours would like to take credit, but perhaps it was going to happen anyway !?
- Michelle i am intrigued how you found out about my complaint as it was only live on this site for about 5 minutes before Paul B pulled it? I have no objections discussing the matter with you but i feel a chat with the mother of
the bride may be a better option for you. She is the one who will have a list of things to discuss with you. I was a mere guest voicing my opinion !!! - Jasper I think you are
seeing conspiracies where there arent any. If it is the wedding complaint or the freebie complaint Michelle is talking about I dont know, but I can at least answer your question with regard to the wedding post that I had to remove. It
was up clearly much longer than 5 minutes as you wrongly state, as it was the Ramada themselves that contacted us about your posting..I hadnt seen it at all. I wasnt even here and had to be contacted by ColetteB.
Now lets get off
the Ramada topic as this isnt the place for complaints about the Ramada. Michelle has offered to talk to you. You seem reluctant. You were the one that made the complaint not the couple concerned although why you made it on here, and
what it had to do with you or doverforum is hard to fathom. The right people to contact in these instances if there are complaints are the people themselves. But it wouldnt have been your role to do it as you as you say yourself were
just a guest.
It is a pity that your posts have rather clouded what must have been the biggest fundraiser for kids I can remember in one night in Dover...all done by the Ramada... its a bit of
pity. - Well done Gwyn, it takes some doing sometimes to get the powers to be in the railway system to agree to something like this. Its great news indeed for the people of
Shepherdswell and the surrounding villages. - Yes this was a +for Mr PROSSOR,he did do alot of the backroom work to get it to come to DOVER.
- well done gwyn and all that helped to get this train to Dover
- David
firstly if i have offended i do apologise
as thats something i never want to do
BUT just commenting o n your posting;
I didnt say you were dishonest, just stated how the local labour party works.
David you may be misguided, but without doubt an indy cllr
has told me they were asked to vote a particular way and said they would not and were told they had to. but still refused.
On kens posting; taking aside my solid beliefs, and then are getting hard to hold on, they only thing that
keeps me there is not wanting the alternative even more!!
Ken, if you look at this in a total inpartial way, the indies have done no more than labour in Dover, as as iv said iv never seen the indy in my ward, thats not to say im
critical, but to show we have people out there who want to see there local reps, and will only vote for them if they see them.
The indies need to do a lot more all over Dover i n the communities if they are to make any more gains in
elections.
thats my view! and the view of many people not interested in politics in Dover.
Most say indies, who are they, when will see them.
Dont forget I still run clubs around wards but rarely see indies getting involved even
after inviting them many times.
Roger
I realy wish i could believe your comments on tory voting, but i dont
Sue nicholas is a good example of if you dont toe the line your out!!!!!!!
so lets be honest iv tried to
be - Following on from some of Keiths comments ,all I will say Its a good job I have a sense of humour,and a fighter .Its a bit like school playground get my drift .If people
would look at the bigger picture exuse the pun we might see progress
Bring back the Public Transport Liasion Committee I say .
Look at the posts re Rail services and now we have the lack of consultation re bus services .
It
cannot be left to a one man band .Im quite good at playing a trumpet .. - Just received in the post a publication from Charlie Elphicke,There are various photos of Charlie out
and about .One shows Cllr Collor and he is named and one of me no hat at Alkham Fayre .I did not warrant my name being put to the photo so you see some people get their names in print whilst others are has beens ?/I work hard for the
Conservatives in my own way so a little recognition now and again .I cant aford their high cost dinners.
- Heya gang
Just popping in , and read in the members club
about whether it shoud remain yada yada yada.. and then read Paul telling us that DF is getting old.. blimey was it really that long ago? Doesnt seem that long ago for me, but I suppose its getting that way.
Dad pops in to read
stuff... mainly because he cant ask me anymore! He rang me up to ask about what time the Proms started.. bless him! So carry on in the same vein.. it keeps him from asking me the stupid questions!
And thats me all sorted from my
end of the A2! Hope you're all good, and sure shall see of you out and about.. Christmas is when I am next home I think! Oh nearly forgot popping some photos to a bride , a wedding I photographed a few weeks back.. so may pop in to see
some faces... Scotchie etc.
Dont be scared to jump out in front of me if you do see me, I am in my own little world nowadays! - susan
leave it with me, i
will speak with chas and insist that he does a reprint with you as the star. - Keith
I certainly was offended and I dont think you meant what you said in the 4th
para up of you posting but saying it is bad enough. I accept your apology, however.
Let me repeat as you have heard many times - even from Vic who has no angle here that no Indy EVER has been ordered to vote in a particular way -
indeed many times an Indy has voted against the rest. all we do is explain the options. The principle of the Alliance is freedom of information and that the individual should make their own mind up . Please don't try and accuse us of
anything else.
Secondly, of your criticism, I would ask you to note that we have now published the DTC accounts on the Web and attendance of Councillors. I asked for this.
Perhaps before you keep criticising any particular
party you ought to look at those statistics. This week we had a Council meeting that ended with just 5 Councillors - a minimum and on Saturday only 3 Councillors and the Mayor will be attending the ceremony. It isnt just attendance at
committee but also the support to the other functions and meetings which are relevant. I have asked for a current report on this situation which is very unfortunate.
As far as ward work is concerned I dont see you in my ward
either but that doesnt mean I arent donig anything.
We are all working for Dover and like others I am passionate about it We might have different methods but getting involved is the first step and in that I agree with you
wholeheartedly.
now where is the watering can...
D - As many of you know, I have been
trying for years to find out how other Towns and Cities have been able to improve their run-down and dilapidated buildings to improve the look and feel of their town, where we (Dover) cannot.
On Monday this week I found out how we
can do it and the thing that surprised me, was that quite a number of influencial people also knew about how it can be done, but haven't done anything about it, or followed it up at the highest level.
Indeed PaulB has
photographed many of the run-down and closed-down buildings & shops we have here and put them on the Forum.
I won't put the whole information on here, as the information I have gleaned, takes up 7 A4 pages (it is much longer than
this, but all the relevant points - the introduction and the rules etc. are in the paper I have created.
Unless there is a very good reason why this has not been taken up (and finances play a very small part in this) then I will
urge every one, from the individual, to Councillors (of all colours), bodies like the Chamber of Commerce and the Dover Society, the Chief Executive of Dover District Council, the Leader of DDC, local businesses - who are all adversely
affected by these rundown, close down and dilapidated buildings and of course the local Press, to push to have our Town restored to it's former glory.
The answer is Section 215 of the Town and Country Planning Act
1990.
Local Planning Authorities can force owners of these buildings to smarten them up and if they don't, after a certain period, they can do it themselves and send them the invoice.
If it goes to court, it will involve a
criminal record, which will bring difficulties in borrowing money, so in the vast majority of cases, they do the required work before any action is needed.
If anyone would like me to send them details of this section 215, just
email me.
This could be transformational for Dover - let's get on top of it.
Roger - On the Agenda last night part 3 was D.D.C
Chief talk on Projects in the pipeline,and that is why I got up and said "Well it must be the longest pipeline in the world,because we have had over 30years of talk on the regeneration of our Town,and up to now it has been a waste
pipe,costing £1000s of pounds,will it be better this time?. - Roger I understand your desire to bring back and indeed smarten up buildings but it is not that easy .Do
you realise how many years it took to get that property back into use in Granville Street .DDC donot have the resources to do all these things .It takes officer time and the unit that deals with this is small in capacity .
There is a
report before cabinet on Monay dealing with this .Im very well versed on this subject .King Street old property still working on that one .With my new job hopefully I can oversee more money being directed for these projects .I understand
more cuts are on the way Im very aware of these laws etc but it takes time .For instance when we give out Grants /loans to make homes decent it can take months .We dont just hand over the money .I think you should have a visit to the
Private sector team and see the complications there are ,..
- An interesting evening last night, yes all subjects have been discussed amongst ourselves before but it was
good to have some updates from the various official bodies involved. I was particularly impressed with Amanda Lumley of KCC and indeed Sarah Lang of Dover Pride They instilled some positve feedback to the various questions from the floor
and are clearly working hard towards the success of Dover. - Well, Roger, nicely patronised by Sue there. Feeling
ok? - Not really O. K. Bern, but I'm not sure if patronised is the right word.
Every one I know grumbles about the Town Centre and the buildings being in such a
dilapidated state; they have been for years and every one I asked said they have no idea how these landowners can be forced into improving their property.
90% of those written to by LPAs (Local Planning Authorities) put their
house in order (literally) after receing that letter; if we had 90% of the buildings in Dover put right and smartened up, 100 % of the people here would be very happy.
Having a brighter Town Centre would have a positive affect on
tourism and businesses and consequently employment too.
Tens of millions of pounds are going to be spent on the regeneration of Dover, but it will be pointless if we don't smarten up what we have now - we must do it, even if it
means employing more people to resource it.
Can we, as a responsible Local Planning Authority afford not to invoke this section 215 ?
I realise there will be implications, but in all honesty, Dover's future and that of the
businesses here, is on the line.
Some quotes from the rule book:
"Section 215 (s215) of the Town & Country Planning Act 1990 (the Act) provides a local planning authority (LPA) with the power, in certain circumstances,
to take steps requiring land to be cleaned up when its condition adversely affects the
amenity of the area. If it appears that the amenity of part of their area is being adversely affected by the condition of neighbouring land and
buildings, they may serve a notice on the owner requiring that the situation be remedied. These notices set out the steps that need to be taken, and the time within which they must be carried out.
LPAs also have powers under s219 to
undertake the clean up works themselves and to recover the costs from the landowner."
"The most important message that LPAs should be aware of is that s215 action can be taken against land and buildings – in s336 of the Act the
definition of ‘land’ includes a building."
"Practical examples in the imaginative and effective use of s215 needed to be disseminated to LPAs to encourage greater use of the power. Difficulties in the use of the power seem to
arise from infrequent use and lack of experience rather than complexity or lack of scope of the legislation."
"Successful s215 action has been both complaint-driven and proactive. It is one of a number of provisions available to
LPAs for maintaining and improving the quality of the environment, assisting in tackling dereliction and retaining land in productive use".
"Section 215 is a relatively straightforward power that can deliver important, tangible
and lasting improvements to amenity. For example, in one LPA 157 former eyesores were improved as a result of the direct use or threat of s215 action between April 2000 and April 2004."
"Section 215 has the potential to
contribute to wider regeneration and urban quality objectives and is an important part of the Government’s sustainable development strategy."
"The Urban Task Force (1999) found that there is little incentive for private
property owners to invest in the quality of their property if they are situated within an urban environment which is of such low quality that it simply sucks value out of their property."
There's a lot more of course, but these
do give a flavour.
Roger - what can any of us say to this news?
i have posted on here many many times how other towns confronted with
the same problems as us have forced landowners to sort out their properties or face having it repossessed.
the nearest example has been hastings who seem to have an extremely determined attitude.
it seems that the options
have been available for two decades!!!
when action is eventually taken in dover, can we start with the folkestone road, then work uphill towards the clarendons.
too many rachman like landlords have had it too easy for too
long.
to add insult to injury the vast proportion of the rent they collect is funded by the taxpayer. - having re read my post, i realise that the town centre must
come first.
then it will be a straight fight between us in priory and those in london road area. - I have put on this forum re Hastings as I had seen this
transformation personally
I have also had la engthy meeting with Nadeem.
Roger, there is nothing new if DDC and more importantly if DDC Councillors ( whatever party) are realy serious about getting this town tidied up as so
many buildings are in a poor state of repair.
I gave Nadeem a "picture portfolio" of 32 locations that need basic maintenance (removal of vegetation on buildings and a lick of paint).
This can be enforced if the will is
there but from last night I do not believe the DDC or its Councillors are really concerned about simple basics of cleanliness etc and only repeat the "in the pipeline" mega bucks regeneration.
After my holiday I posted how
Lincoln had solved the "filth" problem, yes there are costs but minimal in making the town clean. It is the public that create the litter/fag ends/ chewing gum and the council (perhaps with a limited budget) cleans it up. With the
"zero tolerance" and £75 fines as per Lincoln we would see a major transformation and should self finance itself. - i think that is spot on about the fines financing the
cleaning up.
surely the same applies to a warden/parkie in pen\cester gardens?
many towns and cities are operating the "zero tolerance" policy, it will be interesting to see the results. - Thanks Guys
The thing that I am surprised and quite angry about, is that this has been known for so long and never (to my knowledge) exercised.
The paper itself
states "there are many LPAs who are successfully using s215 as a regenerative tool (Doncaster Metropolitan Borough Council and Hastings Borough Council are leading examples)", so it does work and does make a difference.
It
doesn't cost a lot to write a letter and it wouldn't be difficult to know which buildings need smartening up.
I want to widen this out very, very soon; I do realise there are financial implications, because I'm sure new staff
will be required, but I can't imagine anyone being against this.
I have been accused of being politically naive, maybe I am, but I'm damn sure this is good for all of Dover.
As I said earlier, results have shown that 90%
of the letters (if worded correctly) result in the work being done.
Think of the benefits to residents, tourists, businesses, employment etc. etc.
Howard, I've banged that drum about a river warden and park attendant and
not even had the courtesy of a reply, so as a back-bench Councillor I'm not going anywhere with that.
It needs political will and some finance, but as I and you have mentioned, the job would be paid for by fines. There would need
to be changes in legislation in giving such a warden/attendant the power and authority to issue fines, but I'm sure it can be done.
I did pick up your point about Lincoln Pat and it is all part of having a "CAN DO" attitude and
well done to Lincoln.
Roger - keep banging the drum roger.
as you have said, it is not a political issue.
it is simply a
battle between those who want a nice environment and those who do not care. - David
for fear of this article getting out of hand i did apologise as soon as i
saw your post.
Alli will say is an Indy cllr told me they were forced to vote for an item, its not my words, and certainly it was prompted by me.
You wouldn't see me in your ward David you don't live in Dover do you?
I do visit many wards, and do my little bit as a volunteer, by the way bingo this coming tuesday Aycliffe church hall old folk road, 7pm see you all there. - Keith Just
drop it you was wrong and that is the end of it.I get it wrong alot just put my hands up say yes it was me ,and then move on,all you have done now is put two names in the box, and some now will say gave out the name of the cllr,you then
turn and say "I can not do that" and it will go on and on mate. - keith has a good point about indie town councillors, i think we have one or two in my ward,
certainly had some in the past.
no idea who they are.
we get newsletters from the reds, blues and sometimes yellows.
if you ask people around here, they think that sheila is our only townie. - Roger: is there anything we can do to support you with this?
- Howard you are right ,they do not go around the
wards and your ward,i do not think any of them go around,thats why I was hoping to get in there again,i was aways up there and on the day of the flood i did help out ,but I did not get back in and I did not get alot of votes,and the ones
who did not come round then or now got back in, so I got it wrong by going it alone, but if I have ago again ,It will have to be on my own again,it is just wait and see time,If I stand again for the Town council I do not know yet what
ward that would be,but my home was in your ward for over 30years if i could not get back in there ,it will be very hard in other wards ,I done at the last time round and again got nowhere.My wife has said to me time after time do I want
to do it all again at the age of 67.?/ - VIC
NO i do say it as it is, if indie happy to tel me thats fine, as howard says with the number of cllrs we have in
priory alone'
11 surely we shoiuld see more of them all - Bern
I have written to the Councillors to get their reaction and the businesses in Dover (at least all those
on my email address groups) and so far this morning I've not had one reply.
I appreciate it is a week-end and some may not read their emails over the week-end; I also appreciate that because they come from me, they might not read
them anyway.
I was going to give it a little while and see if I do get a response from either of the above; if the businesses don't respond, they obviously don't care, even though their livelihoods depend on Dover looking good;
I'm sure all the residents and visitors would want Dover to look cleaner, smarter and cared for, more than it does now.
I'm not particularly worried that I'm a Councillor, in a way this gives it more importance, but if I don't
get any kind of answer, I'll feel obliged to talk to the local papers to see if they can add pressure.
I am going to write (blind email) to all those on my email address groups, asking them to write to the Council.
Apathy,
indifference, couldn't care less, all the same thing really, but whatever it's called, it seems to be the prevalent emotion.
I'm a little surprised that there hasn't been more of a response on the Forum about this, as it could
be transformational for Dover - just a couple of people, yourself and Howard I think.
Roger - i am astonished as to the lack of replies on
this subject.
the biggest complaint from most posters here is the run down state of our town.
i am not surprised at the lack of interest from businesses, most seem happy to breeze along, content with things as they
are.
anything new is looked on with suspicion.
maybe roger should speak to the local press and initiate a campaign that forces the authorities to use the powers available to them. - Roger what you are saying is nothing new mate,it has all been said or done before,all we can do is talk at all the meetings that are put on and hope that one day it all
will move on,you are a blue and the blues have been in power at the distict along time,it is moving forward but very very slowly,What would the blues now be saying if the reds had all the power at distict the same amount of time you have
had? I will tell you it would be "Get the reds out we would have done better"And ROGER THAT IS JUST THE WORDING DONE BY THE BLUES ALL THEM YEARS AGO,but-----I rest my case mate,I hope you and your good lady have a nice day out in the
sunday.We are off to church then out to the Royal Oak of dinner. - That should read Sunday Sun sorry about that Roger
- Roger i'm with you on this one I also know how difficult it is to get anyone to do anything, we have felt this in Buckland many times over.
To be a nuisance is sometimes
the only way with so much promised for Dover what can be do in the run up ie cleaner smarter and at least looking as though its cared for should be a must.
That has to be benefical to everyone surely. - Expect to see a good turn out tomorrow at cabinet when the Empty Property Issuie will be discussed ?
- Can anyone
tell me how Dover got on Saturday did they win? Thank you. - If you knew about this section 215 Vic. why didn't you tell me ?
I've been on numerous
planning training days and seminars over six years and not once have I been made aware of this from any of the tutors, or any of the senior planning officers.
Roger
- I was at first quite concerned about the change of ships feeding the Dover - Boulogne route.
If it is because they can't take enough freight, then
that is good; I've also seen first hand, the speed of docking these big seacats and it is quite slow.
I hope that this conventional ferry will not have an adverse affect on the Boulogne to Dover route.
Roger
- if this section 215 is part of the town and country planning act of 1990, does this mean that the powers have been in force for 19 years?
if so, the
culpability of our councillors and officers is beyond belief.
in an earlier post pat s states that he gave our chief executive a picture portfolio of 32 sites that need cleaning up. this begs the question "how many of our
officers and elected councillors actually come into dover on a regular basis"?
we will have a general election soon, will the sitting member or his challenger take note of this longstanding problem, and promise to take it up with
the council.?
i have not seen either of them ever mention the dilapidation of our town.
- Unfortunatly Dover lost 1.0 Vic.
Big home game next
Saturday in the FA Cup against Welling. - I would assume that to be the case Howard.
Reading through all the info. on this piece of
legislation, it is not too onerous to write a letter to the land-owner (their information is on the Land-Registry site where DDC have all that info.), so that part is free to them apart from officer time.
I have now written to the
Chief Planning Officer and his Manager at DDC, asking about this, I'll follow it up with an email to the Chief Exec.
Pat S. if you read this can you send me that portfolio of images of places that need doing up; either in lots of
email, or smaller images; if we can marry the two together and ask why these are not being attended to and this (section 215) is how it can be done.
Roger
I
- Hi Roger
I shall let you have a copy that I left with Nadeem
I have for some time been pressing DDC to take a firm line as was done in Hastings
and other towns with similar problems of run down buildings
I do wonder if the success in other towns/cities where they have used 215 is due to the fact in many cases they are City or Borough Councils and are therefore interested
in the problem wheras DDC being a District really care very little for the Town Centre of Dover - Re LD Lines withdrawing fast craft
Does not surprise me as the real
revenue in the ferry industry is freight and the Norman Arrow has a small capacity for freight.
Also with the winter weather the fast craft would have had a high cancellation level.
The problem of operators only operating
fast craft has been seen in the past with the demise of Hoverspeed and Speedferries - Today I received the latest DDC news Letter .There was an interesting article re Empty
Properties .The old Ware House once used as a Taxi Office off Wortrhington Street has been brought back into use and offers affordable accomodation
The Cabinet Meeting this morning discussed the report on empty properties .Press not
present and only two members of the public bothered to show up .I did mention it on here . . - everyone loves a good UFO tale :-)
- Paul
How fantastic that Phil managed to capture the moment !!!
I am informed that in fact it was Henry II taking a peep at the refurbished Great
Tower. We are not sure what he thought but I am sure some witty forum members may be able to let us know - Thanks Pat.
I do indeed remember you saying about Empty Homes
being discussed at Cabinet Sue, but in all the time I've been a Councillor and read the Cabinet papers on what is to be discussed, I have written to the Cabinet members on a number of occasions and never even received an acknowledgement
that they've received mty communication; certainly never been able to influence their thinking or decision-making.
I couldn't attend today as I had to take Jean's daughter to Gatwick airport and have just got
back.
Isn't the Empty Homes strategy completely different to this section 215 legislation ?
Roger - surely two different issues here,
both important though.
the 215 legislation is more pressing as the power is there to take action and it affects everyone that lives in dover.
to my knowledge nigel is the only cabinet member that lives in dover, so doesn't
look too hopeful. - The cabinet report referred to the 215 legislation There are empty properties all over the district not just Dover .The Stratergy is on line .The
places Pat referred to have their population in a smaller area .DDC covers a very wide area .When our money is spead out we cover Dover ,Deal ,Sandwich ,Aylesham and all the rural Parishes ..
We need a lot of money .We have one
part time officer who deals with this . - why is a lot of money needed susan.
we are talking about renegade property owners that just need a letter from ddc to tell them
to clean up.
the options then are fairly straightforward.
doncaster and hastings are hardly wealthy areas, yet they have managed to sort the problem. - You are right Kathy everyone loves a good UFO story. You did a good job there with that one in the Dover Express as it fired up all our imaginations.
Yes Pat our man Phil is always in the right spot and at the right
time, he has an uncanny knack ! - I appreciate that DDC cover all of the Dover District and it is quite a large area, but I am talking about the run-down
dilapidated buildings in Dover - mostly commercial (or ones that were commercial) properties.
The DDC Empty Homes initiative is about empty homes - houses and flats and filling them - in the vast majority of cases, with homeless
people or those on benefits.
I can see that some empty (and some used) commercial properties may have the potential for flats above the shops, but my great concern is about the run-down, dilapidated shops, Dover has so many of.
Doesn't DDC give money to do the flat and empty houses up, Sue ? if so that is NOT what I am talking about; I want the landlords to pay for their run-down and dilapidated properties and if in 90% of the cases, they do so, then
that's what we (DDC) should be doing.
Roger
PS: it's funny 'cos PaulB suggested I post this on the open page as it would attract a lot more interest, but there's only about 3, maybe 4 people who have posted on
it, so maybe the majority of people who read the (Dover) Forum are happy about how Dover and it's buildings look.
Not even the Press have picked it up. To me this is of monumental importance - to everyone, but seems
not. - Hi Roger/Sue/Howard
I have been hammering this with DDC (even up to CEO) and as Howard says it is not a question of a lot of money all the whilst a
CPO is not required. For a Officer to contact Property Owners to smarten up or the Council will do so and charge the owner. Looking at DDC staffing costs one wonders where the money is being spent.
Sue, of course DDC have the
expence of Deal/Sandwich etc and it is for this reason I say the success of implementing the 215 policy with City and Borough Councils is because they only concentrate on the City or Town. Certainly Dover Town is starved by
DDC.
To get Dover looking more presentable and clean must be a first objective before any longterm (20 year plus) regeneration. - I've often felt that the only way
forward for Dover Town Centre in the advent of Tesco's et al was to look back.
What do I mean? Simply this ,around the world Dover is known as Hellfire Corner so make Dover Town Centre a 'Theme Town' shops could obtain grants
to have the outside of their shops styled 1940's style. Old style tea rooms,and walk in shops sponsored by English Heritage.Living Museums.Market Square littered with an old Tram or Cherabanc.WW2 posters adorning advertising hoards,old
enamel advertising boards.Old Pathe trailers showing on the Telly by the Ellie.
A living working breathing musuem and places like the Crypt etc could be roped off as bomb damaged buildings. Its been done upt'north.
I agree
it's thinking out of the box and may sound loopy but Dover High Street is never going to regain ground in the traditional method so lets undertake something exciting,new and different.It will also afford the opportunity for those who
like to wear 40's uniforms and clothes to walk around town freely and add to the atomsphere.
The way forward is holding on and exploiting our rich heritage and past. - Marek I agree with all that,but not the Crypt My wife and her family were working there the night of the fire which 7died.This site should have gone years ago,but we have done alot of posts on this over the years so I will not
add to them. - Vic
Point taken.I have for years continually harped on about the site being left untouched with no memorial or reconstruction.All I hear is
'Anglo-saxon well' blah blah. Some fitting lasting tribute to those that perished that night should be erected. No offence was meant and deepest apologies. - What else
would you like Marek? Actors dressed up as shell shocked and maimed people staggering around covered in fake blood, pretending to be victims of shelling? Dummies on stretchers? Tourists would love that. Wars should not be glamorised or
turned into a novelty - one wonders what some of elder residents who lived through it would think?
The thought of The Crypt being roped off as a pretend bomb-damaged building is extremely poor taste. If the area is ever
redeveloped, a memorial plaque should be erected on the new building to those who died. - Marek.That is alright,I know what you was trying to say,I write things down then look
at them again and think to my self my wording was not right on that one,just look at my pass not that good and in the papers.I can not add anymore a bout the Crypt,but we can not blame the D,D,C, on this one. But again as Phil put it a
redeveloped and plaque is the right way of doing it,if it had not been in Dover I feel that would have been done.I would like to see the D,D,C, put more into geting on to the owner who most of us know to move on with this site,But even
with that English heritage did stop him at one time in a dedevloped on that site,so who is at blame?I think you can put some blame on all of them for again not working with each other,and we do see alot of that happing in Dover. - Just to had to what Marek wrote, my wife and myself some years ago went to a mine in Wales and next to it they hafd a Village they where all dressed up and there was a
old English pub and shops,and you had to change your money too old coins etc, it was great and alot of the public there to. - no doubt that deal and sandwich have
some run down buildings, though i have not seen many.
dover stands out like a sore thumb.
maybe once we have the addresses of the owners, someone ld dump
some rubbish at the front of their homes?
- Phil
Good ideas Phil worth following up. As for the Plaque please read my subsequent posting below.Dover is looking tatty and wartorn why not capitalise on
it. - having looked at that flying saucer again, i can only say that the camera never lies.
i wonder if the occupants have a recipe for mashed potato? - lol! Howard - the next time they come back we must muster up a delegation to go meet them and ask the recipe.
But a change to the frontpage now above...its a press
release from the DDC. I applaud the efforts of Health and Safety myself as on a number of occasions they have stepped in to protect the public in many different ways. Which is always welcome. I hope in this case their remit runs to the
actual quality of service and repairs the actual car driver gets on the spot. Thats a bit of a grey unfathomable area. Are the repairs and servicings you ask for actually carried out!!? Half the time you cant tell...and the other
half... - I doubt if that would come under Health and Safety PaulB; my understanding is that is the working practices they are looking at.
Some good
thoughts there Marek - I know we have the 1940s week-end and maybe that could be expanded, but I'm not sure the businesses here would go for what you're suggesting.
We have a wonderful heritage, that is so much under-promoted
and exploited; if we had half of what is being given to the Seachange initiative and put into this section 215, the Town would be transformed.
Roger
- We have, as we all know, already had a superb 1940's reconstruction and thrown it away. Forties Street in the White Cliffs Experience was a magnificent
recreation of what it was like to be in Dover in the war years. Still cannot get over the incompetence of the administration which allowed all that talented work to be torn down and flogged off for a pittance. - I never saw the Forties Street but I guess it was something like the recreations in Canterbury. If a town has lots of variations of interest, such as the Forties Street, it
all adds up to the greater whole. The tourist/visitor enjoys the variety of experiences and comes back for more. Why was Forties Street closed down..low visitor numbers??
Canterbury is booming as a visitor attraction. I was there
last weekend and you see the visitors arrive by the proverbial truckload. They love Canterbury and I can see why, but I cant understand why they love it there so much and dont love it here so much. I guess its one thing above all else,
the nice feel of affluence in the air. Its heartening to see great groups of tourists all being led round by a guide holding a number aloft..no 42..and telling them tales as they go
along. - I agree Ed. it was criminal; sold to somewhere like Plymouth.
As Ed. said, it was part of the White Cliffs Experience and when that closed down it
got sold off. It could have been incorporated into Dover Museum as they are attached to each other, but it was cheaper to give it away.
I think it was around 2000/2001 or 2 ?
Canterbury wins because, amongst other things,
it is a brighter, cleaner City and their buildings are not allowed to deteriorate like ours are and even when we have legislation to force landlords to do them up, we don't use it - like this section
215.
Roger - I like that idea a sort of Beamish but using the Town not rebuilding it,of course the court which was part of the old town
gaol is still in the Town Hall in one of the back rooms,because Richard Digance spotted it and stood in the dock and said I am guilty. - paulb,there is an intressting artical on
page 4 of the dover express. entiteld,starting date for town zone looms,paties commit to resolve issues whithin six [6] weeks.the artical is edited by kathy bailes.cllr fred scales speaking to the express that a futher anosment in four
[4] weeks.with the possabilaty of a build start next year with the 100 room hotel on the corner of woolcomber street/townwall street,with the demolition of burlington house. - The
section 215 is interesting, but how can you force someone to do work on a property if it isn't unsafe and if they don't have money to do it ? - Max yes Ive seen
it. I have in fact mentioned that article in the feature above..second last paragraph.
Well an interesting point that one Scotchie. maybe Roger will have a suggestion there.
You can I suppose force people by legal means
and I suppose many people who do own properties actually have cash reserves that they are not willing to cough up. I guess throwing good money after bad might be the problem for them, but its a problem we all shoulnt have to bear the
burdon of. In other words we shouldnt have to look at the mess they leave in their private capacity...we shouldnt have to endure it everyday. - two different issues here, the
dtiz, a subject that will run and run with endless pronouncements from the regeneration supremo, and the issue of cleaning up existing buildings.
the forecasted announcement to be made by the end of the month may be a way to
appease the dover public over the lack of action on this 215 thing. - The 215 has been around along time .I got on the D.D.C. ALONG TIME AGO ABOUT IT BUT GOT NO
WHERE.hOPE you have more luck this time. I think it was over the M.F.I.site it was in the papers at the time,but I did get the site cleaned up when we found that the site was being used by the homeless, I did not mind that but it is what
we found on that site------- - when you say that you got nowhere with ddc vic, do you mean that they did not reply to your missives, or did they state a reason for
doing nothing? - PaulB, I remember this walk of shame. It really is scandalous that so little has changed, other than what individuals have taken into their own
hands. The Dilapidation of Dover should shame our local reps.
Well done for highlighting it again. - I recall in the great debate on the BIg Screen ,our very own Cllr
Collor stateing that there was someone interested in taking over The Three Cooks and others were also interested .The Big Screen would make Market Square thrive with incoming business,Who was right ??
A lot of the pictures shewn
are in the DTIZ zone .When the Asda development starts so these buildings will come down .
I did not see any of you at the cabinet meeting when the 215 was on the agenda,
Very good to point and shout from the touch lines
. - we would have only been shouting from the touchlines at any cabinet meeting susan.
are you seriously saying that members of the public can speak at cabinet meetings?
incidentally, the screen has been fully operational for just over a month, your negativity is not called for yet. - Thanks for doing this Paul.
I did
notice that the first two buildings will be coming down, hopefully in the not too distant future, but many of the others need smartening up.
I don't believe that any property owner who leaves one of their buildings in a bad state
of disrepair, should be allowed to leave like that. It's NOT our fault he has decided not to tidy it up; if he can't afford to do it up, he should have to sell it.
I don't know all ithe legal implications of this section 215,
so can't talk about them with any authority, just common sense at the moment.
As far as I am aware, members of the public can't speak at a Cabinet meeting; as far as I am aware no one outside the Cabinet can speak and also as
far as I am aware, no one outside the Cabinet has influenced the Cabinet.
Collective responsibility is what the Cabinet members are expected to do and have.
I'm glad Frederick will give an announcement to the public about the
DTIZ (he's a good guy) and although I'm not a party to those high-level discussions, I bet there isn't anything different to what I've posted on here many times.
If anyone feels that the Portfolio Holder in charge of planning
issues should make this section 215 one of his priorities, then please email him, his email address is: cllrnicholaskenton@dover.gov.uk
You could also email the Deputy Leader of DDC, the man in charge of regeneration, his email
address is: cllrfrederickscales@dover.gov.uk
There is obviously no political will to follow this up (or they are just not taking any notice of me); no replies from any Councillor and just one from the business sector.
Roger - I regret to say that there was way too much optimism with regard the screen and its expected affect on business. Although its nice to
look at...I often stand and gawp myself, but just for a couple of minutes. Through the winter months, as I think Vic said earlier, that square will be totally deserted no matter whats there..screen or otherwise so the screen is unlikely
to impact on business in a positive way anytime soon. As an electronic tool its quite good, worth an occasional glance but thats about it.
But I will say this...if you were going to have a screen at all it is most certainly in the
right place. Any thoughts of putting it in a park for example are way off beam. - Thanks for that guys re feature...hopefully it may help just draw an extra bit of attention to
the situation with regard all horrible buildings in Dover. There are many more...in fact I could have made it look worse than it does. But its worthwhile backing up Roger in this as his heart is keenly in the right place when it comes to
Dover. Of course its not an easy task...I imagine it could be a legal quagmire, but we have to try. - Sue, it is nice to see your focus is the heart of Dover and not being
proven right or wrong on a trivial issue.
Roger - I am emailing those people as soon as I have written this, their contacts are saved to my PC!!
Those businesses in MArket Square who continue to be apathetic and inactive
and don't bother to grasp the opportunities offered by the screen the Christmas Lights et al should be ashamed of themselves and frankly don't deserve our patronage - move over and let someone with a bit of flair get
in!!!! - paulb,i think you got it just about right.i cant see why they cant knock those buidings down and get the site/s ready for the
rebuild. - Emails sent!!! Watch this space.
- I enquired about the 3 Cooks shop ages ago with the view of making it a
take-away noodle type snack bar also selling exotic spices for our multicultural dovorians and risk taking aspiring chefs. After much delay I was informed that it had been sold and was no longer on the market.Similar story at other
places even the estate agents like Tersons couldn't even be bothered to reply to my numerous requests for details of commercial properties on their books.
I even resorted in using a local well known liked and respected forumite
to see if he could fare better in obtaining details from the agents. Nope it would appear they are not interested in letting or selling any of these properties. - I also
used the 215 with the Moats Bulwork site as you all know this is the very first site you see when you come off the boats and walk towards the town,still there is Gatehouse and barbican,the Battery site ,Old Platform of the late 16th
Century,and the lower Battery.
I still hold all the paper work from Kent Highways, THE D,H,B, and the D.D.C. Also at that time I was talking to the owers and Maltbys the Surveyors,this is the site I wanted the chair lift to go
up.I done aplan how this would work going up the out side of the cliffs with the site below would have been car park the rest of the site done up and again open to the public with a cafe Etc .
i DO HAVE ALOT OF THE PAPER WORK ON
IT. Just one of the policys on it is this Policy A55 Redevelopent of the Army Careers information office,shown on the Dover Inset and sheet of the proposals map,will be PERMITTED provided
"1" There is no adverse affect on the
Dover Castle or Mote,,s Bulwark Scheduled Ancient Monuments or their settings.
"2"It preserves or enhances the character or appearance of the Dover Castle Conservation Area.
"3"It is acceptable in terms of Traffic
generation and adequate site access Arrangements can be made. And in my plans was just that with a foot brige going into the site.
"4" The design and layout reflects the importance of the site as the entrance to the Town
.
"5" There is no risk of pollution to groundwater and
"5" Provision is made for an archaeological evaluation in advance of any planning decision, and the consequent appropriate level of archaeological mitigation in
accordance with the historic Environment policies of this plan.This is just part of the paper work at that time I was working with on my plans.The history of the site in a few words is A 16TH/18TH CENTURY gun battery commanding Dover
Harbour.
When I was a Town Cllr all that was said about me was "Matcham, all he does is shout about just to get his name in the papers"
This was not true I was working on a lot of sites at that time and this was just one
of them, MFI,was one and the James st to, trying to get it all cleaned up and the building aswell in the town centre.By just reading this you can see alot of time and writing letters to all was put into it,and if I had got voted back on
I would still be working on them,I love Dover but like the rest of you I feel so sad to see it as it is today,but like the rest of you can only talk on how I think we should move forward. - Just going back to your very first photo of Dover , no10 .
Going back 6years now I still have the Mercury and I am looking at it now the headlines SORT OUT OUR TOWN.at this
time I was going around our town with Graham Tutthill in the paper are photos of all that you have above +The motes Bulwark.Also at that time I wrote in the Mercury"Taking up the theme put forward by the Mercury last month that all the
authorities need to work together Cllr Vic Matcham says"The problem is now getting too big for one authority, such as the D,D,C. TO TACKLEon its own.
An indepentent member of D.T.C.he said
"We need to work together now Town
council.district council ,Dover Society English Heritage,everyone who has an interest in the future or Dover .I all go on and talk about Charlton green ,The Crypt and lots of other ones to.Again in the D//E on the 17/3/2005 I wrote
aboutagain it was headlines Save our Cluttered steets.Again on the 3 3 05 Headlines Dover in Gloom.So you can see what is being said now is nothing new.Again please do not think I am writing this all again now because I am trying again
to get back on any council or just talking about what I have done or not done, because that would not be true,Just last week at the meeting at the town hall the D,D,C council told us all they could not do all the work on their own,just
go back and read what I said in 2004 it was just that. - Utterly shameful. All of it. Outrageous neglect, inertia and civic vandalism. The old Labour Exchange at 10
King Street in particular is a beautiful building too. When exactly is the talking going to stop and the regeneration going to begin? - As shocking as it is I'd got used to this
kind of dereliction as part of Dover... I mean, isn't it why we pay our council tax! No other town can boast to having as many pre war relics still standing! - i doubt
whether our council tax would make much of a dent
in the regeneration.
the real issue(sorry to raise it again) is that the owners of these buildings are abdicating their reponsibilities and cocking a snook at our council who
are not taking them to task. - Tongue in cheek I could say that a;lthough number 10 was not downing street in the picture, probably after a few years tory rule
building will look like that including downing street lol
On the general town centre, we have been here some time before, most of us agree that if the council puts most of its efforts into getting business to move out of
Dover to Whitfield, then the town won't survive.
Allowing Tesco's to dictate gives the town problems for the future.
I'm a Dovorian and ashamed at the sight of the town, it looks tired and i do feel sorry for the few
shops still there trying to make a few bob, I do wonder if the DITZ will ever happen . I have to remain hopeful, although even if it does it will only help Dovers survival, not solve it.
Whilst we should always talk up Dover, we
shouldnt just ignore the fact that Dover is struggling.
As VIC says this agreement has been around for some time, what is lacking is the councils push to make it happen. - Andy. I couldnt agree more
Having posted various the problem is twofold
1) Derelict/declining buildings
2) Cleanliness
Re 1) The main problem is vegetation on buildings and lack of paint. In this context
Section 215 can be used to make the owner bring the property up to standard or the Council do the work and charge the owner. Seldom does this go to a CPO. At the Dover Town Forum meeting Nadeem indicated that properties with foreign
owners could not be taken to task with 215. Only this week on "Under the Hammer" a property that had been the subject of a CPO was up for auction as a leasehold property that the council had produced plans for (It being a residential
semi). The condition of purchase was that the improvement work had to be completed within two months. Therefore it seems that a CPO can be taken against a foreign owner.
Re2) Firstly our street cleaner does an excellent job but
under difficult circumstances as litter (and dog fouling) seems almost continious. There are laws in place re litter and dog fouling and a greater use should be made as "education" seems to have failed and only financial penalties may
eradicate the "drop it anywhere" syndrome. Our Community Police Officers are, I understand,able to serve notice for these offences and it would be excellent to see some action rather that the usual "walkabout". Additionally those
serving community service orders should be used for cleaning our grot spots on a regular basis.
Yes Vic, I am sure it has all been said before, certainly looking at the town no action has been done. Just because nothing done in
the past does not mean nothing need be done in the present. - Re last posting
Had meant to add following
Despite all the poor buildings etc just go to The Lord
Nelson on the corner of Flying Horse Lane to see how a building can buck the trend with good fresh painted walls, hanging baskets and it is in the middle of an area totally rundown. Congratulations to whoever is responsible for this
building. - Just to add the building with no 10 on the door is being done up at this time,I went by there last week and the door was open and they were working inside sorry but
I do not know what they were doing. - No response yet to the emails I sent this morning to the two reps Roger kindly supplied addresses for. I wonder if I am
surprised..................... - I haven't received any replies either Bern - from any of the Councillors I've written to and just two from businesses I've written to who are
very supportive.
Where do you go to, if you write to the top man (men) and they don't respond either ?
I've had one reply from a senior manager at DDC, pointing out we don't have the resources and it will need a
"political will" to do anything, that's why I wrote to the Cabinet members and all the other Conservative Councillors and suggested those two people and gave their email address for you to write
to.
Roger - ROGER
Don't you find that tragic that your own party as good as ignores you. - Not all Councillors are like you and I Roger .I gather some dont look at their Emails every day .Granted you and I dont have a real job but we both do a lot of other things .Bern
Coffee morning calls me .Flowers sorted .Im sure you are the same Roger but I check my emails late at night . - roger
do they not have the resources to purchase a book of
postage stamps?
as to the subject of your e mails not answered, what right to do the hierarchy have to ignore my elected representative? - Exactly, Howard. To
whom are they accountable? It can't be me, or they might answer our queries. They might even get off their backsides and break sweat from time to time . they might even value someone like Roger who clearly works his socks off for Dover
and doesn't even merit a reply. I am sure he is too courteous to be cross about it, so I will be cross about it on his behalf! - I too have spoken to Roger and as he knows we had
part of this issue at Scrutiny on Wednesday, at which Fred Scales was there to answer questions, getting definite answers is what you might call trying to get blood out of a stone.
But I think Roger knows those of us who are willing
to back him in his fight. - Is this the Dover website I`ve heard about the last year or so, which the council didn`t like? If it is, no wonder, and I don`t blame them.
They must be fuming at these pictures showing the part of Dover between the seafront and what was the market square. These pictures must have been digitally touched up, as no town could look like this. There are some pictures missing
though. Let`s see now, the Prince of Wales pier which the Luftwaffe missed, part of our heritage, which I hear is due to be demolished for a cruise terminal? Remember the hovercraft terminal? Now knocked down to create another eyesore
for Dover. Then there`s the lovely new lifeguard hut on the beach, which just needs finishing off,(a tsunami perhaps). How ever was planning permission granted for that eyesore?? Let`s pop in Debradley,s on the way for a cup of tea and a
90p!! kitkat. Could have had tea on the Prince of Wales pier, but it`s been shut most of the summer. Let`s get a nice picture now of the pier, clocktower and the harbour while it`s all still there. Damn, that lifeguard hut`s in the way.
Wandering up to the subway now, down the steps, and halfway down stop to enjoy the river Dour. Clearly, some Dovorians send their rubbish down the river. Never mind, those hideous looking bars will trap it all. Something else for
visitors to see. Through the subway, we slip quietly past the beggar with his can of beer in case we wake him. Coming up to the former market square now and oh dear... my apologies to the photographer. He didn`t tamper with his pictures.
Dover is an eyesore. Looks like they`ve put a big TV in place, hoping tourists will watch the telly and not notice the surrouding area. If they`re like me though, they`ll tell the council to stick the tv up there a...`s. A new attraction
for Dover, a tv. Hello tourists, if you`re on holiday, and trying to get away from it all, come to Dover and sit watching this obtrusive object. See the latest news on Afghanistan, Iran and all other 24 hour news. You`re not going to
escape the world here. I am looking forward though to the football on it. Hoping someone chucks a bottle through the screen! Now, the old market hall, destroyed by incompetent planner`s, what an attraction that would be and the rest of
the area, destroyed forever, and not by German bombs! Just as well those castle walls are 3 foot thick, otherwise that would have gone as well. Ah Dover, what have those incompetent planners done to you.
Sigh... - A country that destroys it`s past has no future. Does that go for towns as well? If so, the last one to leave Dover please turn the tv
off. - welcome colin.
just one small thing, it is best not to
beat around the bush too much.
better just to have a go mate. - Hi Howard, and many thanks.
- Hi
Sue
I appreciate that not everyone (Councillors) may check their emails every day, but I sent these on the 2nd. of October - it's now the 11th.
I also appreciate that some may be taking a late holiday - but not all of them
surely ?
I can't answer your question about non-answering of the emails of your elected representative Howard.
Thanks for your support Jan, it is appreciated; I was a little surprised though to hear a senior Labour
Councillor in attendance at that meeting, also say we should wait awhile, maybe four years before we look at this section 215 - wait four years before we do anything ?? we won't have a Town Centre then - not with open shops in
anyway.
I know that the Leader of the Council is very pro-active on the strategic level for Dover and is working very hard in that respect on our behalf, but like I have said for ages, we need someone taking control at ground
level, where the buildings, the businesses and the people are.
We all seem to agree what is required for Dover, but the only way it will be done is by creating a political will to do it - a change in direction, or priorities and
that's where you guys come in, by writing to those people whose email addresses I gave, a couple of days ago.
Welcome Colin.
Roger - I have said this before S/215 has been around some years now ,others and myself have picked up on it before it is not someing that has just poped up,Roger is only one out of alot of cllrs and members of the public and groups
and this forum as well and other forums, and newspapers trying to see abetter Dover,all the points that are being said and I mean all of them have been said time and time again,and thay will carry on untill they do start to work on the
Town etc. All I can say if all the public wrote letters to the D,D,C, and when they turn up of work on a Monday they can not get the door open because of all the mail behind the door,and each letter is about the town,then and only than
will this get picked up on by the council and we just might see it all move on,and that must be done now ,it is coming up to voteing time. - My understamding of what
the senior Labour Councillor said ,he appreciated efforts made for tourism but untill the DTIZ and other projects come forward tourists would not get a good impression of Dover and not wish to return He did not relate to section 215 The
tourism budget is small and once DTIZ comes forward then Cllr Scales said he would look to increase it .
There was no debate re section 215 the discussion was around leaflets .
The section 215 is a leverage to encourage owners
to tidy or repair their property but it is not a case of sending a letter .If the owner is unwilling or does not have sufficient funding it takes years to go through the legal system .
Roger some years ago there was a pot of money
that could be spent on doing properties up .Not the HERS scheme in London Road .The amount available was very small and I argued it would be better to do say a couple of buildings up and not spread the money so thinly .Hardly anyone came
forward because they did not have the rest of the money .. - Yadda yadda yadda. Manana. Whatever.
- ROGER
Keep
up the good fihght, i dont care which party said wot, clearly your leading lights cant even be bothered to reply to you( your friends) thats sad
but it dont matter whos in charge, who said wot, what does matter isd Dover is dieing
and we need action - looking at the posts from sue, roger and victor, it seems that we can forget the 215 bit.
looks like dying a death now. - It is true that the leaflets were discussed briefly, tourism too, but also section 215.
To my mind section 215 is one of, if not the most important initiative for
Dover Town, also it can be started now.
Sue, The senior Manager for planning at DDC wrote to me and it IS a letter - to start with, but of course the site has to be visited and a report on it made, then a letter approved by the
legal department before being sent out.
Vic. if you knew about section 215 why didn't you high-light it back then ? now saying "oh yes I knew all about that years ago" isn't good
enough.
Roger - Howard You are right on that one S215 could have and shourd have benn used years ago but again it is down to funding ,to use
215 you need to look at the funding if it gets to the courts,and if it goes that far the council might not win then the cost of it all comes back to us,always to sides to look at.
And Roger I did not have a p.c. at that time ,but
again I talk about it at meetings and as I said before I did talk about it over the M.F,I, site but D.D.C. did act on what I said and the site did get looked at.You have nothing new mate ,you try and use 215 and you will see what I AM ON
ABOUT.
Letters to the council work if there a lot of them and I mean alot, but if the council have no funding you will get nowhere with 215,and lets just say the council went ahead with just one case that will need time and cash ,and
it all comes out of one pot, so if you take it out to use on 215 it will been less for the rest. Just think about it courts means alot of money, I can think back when the D.D.C. lost over£100,000 in just one case and it cost jobs as
well. - Roger ,
I appreciate all you hard work but its down to costs .We have a very small legal team .I know how long it took for Granville Street property to be
restored Dont ask about 10 King Street
Now if we all got up in arms and said we dont want the Sea Change money leave the sea front alone and no cable car use the money in Dover Town Centre we might get somewhere .However as long
as DDC keep acceptiong the carrots we will not get improvements where they are needed .I dread to think what our next budget will bring .You know how the system works Roger there are few of us who are prepard to rock the boat .. - Can someone briefly fill me in please on this sea change money, and cable car? Many thanks.
- Hi Colin - great post, thank
you
Can I just check something out....? Did Sue say that Dover (Dover, Kent: historic town with access to France, Gateway to Europe, with dilapidated and decaying town centre) has a SMALL tourism budget? And a SMALL legal team?
May I ask why? - Hi bern, and many thanks. Anyone out there scratching their heads for tourist attractions, just to let you know, with all the economic situation, the numerous
preserved steam railways across the whole country have been raking it in with their best reciepts ever! These are visited by whole families, many with no knowledge of railways. You can`t move the East Kent light railway at Shepherdswell
to Dover, but I haven`t seen it advertised round Dover. Also, the transport museum. Why the hell was that stuffed away up Whitfield out of the way? Would have been good sited on the former East Kent bus site. But no, anything new in this
town, the whole area has to be demolished. Dover heritage? Should be on the joke page. - colin
the sea change thing is government money that is ear marked for certain
projects in coastal towns.
it is not just money given freely for any town to spend as they would wish.
the cable car is just comething that may happen in the future once a feasibility study has been completed.
much the
same as our equivalent of the "london eye" gracing our seafront. - There is a very good excample of this .Its like wearing a lovely new dress with ragged or no
underwear underneath .Cosmetic is no good get to the core of the problem .Employ our officerr to do the ground work not forever writing stratergies . - Yes Bern ,Aprox £200,000
for tourism and the Musuem ,VIC comes out of that . Once we had a Director of Tourism and a team of six ,a Director of Legal Services now a very small team .DDC is cut to the bone WE now have a Community Safety Team which the public
wanted.plus a whole new Regenaration department
Once we had a PR department now just one lone worker .We also had a Corporate Manager all these posts have gone .
. - I do not know the details of local budgets, thank goodness, but it does seem a bit of an own goal.......speculate to accumulate, isn't it? Dover Town Centre decays, tourism is a main
earner - duh!! - Many thanks Howard. Must agree with Sue on this one then. Find something worth while to spruce the town centre up rather than go for something completely new,
with the prospect of becoming yet another white elephant for the town. I`m not a moaner, just an ordinary member of the public who has seen Dover go downhill over the years, and wish to see it on the map as a tourist attraction.
- colin
it may be worth going back over the last 20/30 posts here and the issue that roger has raised over sprucing up the town.
as i said earlier a lot of
incoming grants are ringfenced.
nothing we can do about that, i feel still that the main problem is , as you mention, smartening up the place.
we keep being told that the council has no money and that the property owners
are in the same boat.
how much does a good clean up and a coat of paint cost? - Agreed Howard. The clean up and coat of paint would be cheaper and have some
good effect, so long as the contract wasn`t handed out to a money extortionist believing the council has a bottomless pit of money! Any local unemployed, enthusiastic painters about? - Colin
Surely Community Service personnel could be drafted in at a reasonable price to give the buildings a lick of paint. Putting something back into the town.
"Think not what Dover can do for you but what You
can do for Dover" said someone in KFC...lol...or was it JFK?.......hehe - Roger,now you know about S/215 Where do you go from here with it?Are you going to go to distict
council and tell them to act on it? and when they tell you they do not have the funds to act on it,what then?are you going to turn round on them and say "I will take the council to court if they do not act on it" Its a No to that
because like them you have not got the funding to do that>" So now you are in the same boat as us who have gone before you.We can not put all the blame down to this council,Dover has been going down hill from the late 1960s,and it could
have been stop years ago,But we have just had 12goods year with lots of work about and most of us was geting good pay,and still nothing was done to our town,now the bad years are with us,so I just can not see much geting done over the
next few years.I hope I am wrong it is just wait and see. - Hi Marek, and many thanks. Your comments are finger licking good.
lol. - Vic
I am trying to create a change in the political will to divert money and effort into invoking this section 215.
The only way to
create that political will is through pressure on those decision makers.
No one has told me to shut up, no one has said no to me (they haven't said yes either); all I want to know, is what is more important than smartening up the
Town - it must be pretty damn important, is all I can say. - I have emailed, and will follow up in hard copy, Roger. I will let you know if/when I get a reponse
- if I don't get one I will simply keep hitting the Send button...!!!!!! - Thanks Bern.
I don't know what else to ask people to do.
I have got something else up
my sleeve, so I'll work on that.
Roger - lucky you put the picture up paul, otherwise we would have thought you were referring to market
square on a friday or saturday night. - Well, it`s been a glorious summer this year, and barely has it gone, than I see this morning, the Christmas lights have
appeared in Castle street! Still 2 months behind tesco! Sad. - Very nice picture at the top. Just wondered how a moonlit night could be
dark? - Ah shure Colin you wouldnt want to go believing all that oul blarney in the 'ghost ship' editorial above, the picture was actually taken in the middle of the
day and there wasnt a brigand in sight at all....never mind a moon! lol! - Well done for posting this Paul.
Pollution is an on-going problem here in Dover,
but as you say, at a Neighbourhood Forum meeting, the man from the Health Protection Agency stood up and told everyone that there is no need to worry, it cannot accumulate and you must be within 6 feet of the pollution before it can
affect you. I don't think anyone in the audience believed that.
You may have noticed that I put advice about the program on the members section as soon as I received it, so hopefully some people may have swicthed over from
Corrie.
Roger - Years ago I had some mates with me and our job was to clean out the tanks on the boats because the crew would not go in there
to do the work,at that time the fuel was done over the other side because of the cost of doing it and the fuel they put in is a heavy fuel and does not cost alot,but it does block up the tanks and you can take it from me the job of
unblocking them is very very bad, it is just like mud and you have to lie down in it and work from one end andclean the whole of the tank out I done that for about 3years or more. - The pollution is bad from the outside,just think what it was like on the inside.I was always the first to go in because I was the boss of the gang,I would always take my Gas
meter with me and sometimes it did go off ,so I did not hang about when that happen just stop what I was doing and got out,the only light you could have in there was a one ten 25watt and with that you could only just about see . Again
this is just one of my true storys of my life. - Yes, good posting and pix there re the horrible pollution we have to endure here on a daily basis from the ferries on
the Dover seafront. I also watched the programme last night. I can remember being lambasted by Speedferries when we reported on their daily spewing of the black stuff. Legalization is clearly needed to try to eradicate this worrying
health hazard. - One time I was called in about 2am to one of the then new ships it is still on the run today,anyway what had happen was they had fueled up
over the otherside but unknown to them the bolts and nuts in a voed area had not been done up and it was not till the ship was taking on more fuel than the tanks could take ,that they found out something was very wrong,
After
opening up that area and the fuel came out,they found out what had happened,so locking the hatch way up again they set sail for Dover,and got on the phone to me and told me to meet the ship with my lads because there was a job for me,at
that time they did not tell me what it was.
Anyway we went on went down to the v/area by this time I had be told what had happened and like always the crew would not go in. I put my Gas meter in the opening and it went off,I was
told the meter was wrong so they went and got theirs again it went off,I said "Look we can not go in there because of the Gas.
The C/Engineer who I did know well said"Vic this job must be done and you are the only ones to do it
,at this time. So I said ok but we wait till the air is better,I had to work out all the risks etc and write it all down and how I was going to do the job.After that was all done it was very dark in there and the only way out was the way
we was going in. I told them all ten mins inside only then we come out the next ones in and we keep going like that till the job was done,if any of you become unwell you must tell me and you will not go in the next time round,so I went
in first I put a rope round me, and then the next man done the same and so on the fuel was so deep on the deck inside the area I had to put wood down as I went to lie on and even with that the fuel was coming over me the p/way was veery
long and dark so I put up a line of one ten 25watts lights.
Doing this as I was going along.
My plan was for me to fill up buckits and pass them back to the next man and so on and out side we had containers to put all the oil
in, well this was working well but as the time went on some of the lads were feeling sick,anyway It was my turn to go in again but the person who was always next to me and I always had him with me was feeling unwell ,so I had to take in
a new lad who I did not know well, I said to him "This is your first time of going in are you going to be OK with that,Yes .so in we went we had the rope around us,and a good thing we did ,when we got up the far end all the lights went
out, and this poor lad behind me went mad ,and I had to fight with him to try and get him out, I told the others keep pulling the rope and both of us came off the wood fighting with each other but at last we got him out.
He was so
sorry about it all. but we all had to get washed off and I SAID TO HIM "DO NOT WORRY it was was your first time you can still work with us but do not do in the hole,well we worked all night still the job was not done, I phone up my boss
he got more men down to take over,my lads went home but I stay till the new ones came down I stayed till dinner time but because I had to come back that night I told them I would have to go home for afew hours. I told them how I wanted
the job done with no one staying in the hole for more than ten mins at a time the meters would go off at times but that is o.k..
I went home I had not been in bed long and the phone went It was one of my lads "Vic after you went
they told us to stay longer in the hole to get the job done,well I went mad I went down to the ship stoped my men working and said to the officer who had just come on."This is my job and if you do not like the way i am doing it you take
over with the crew and we will go home,abyway they agree to do it my way and the job got done in about 30hrs.
My son had worked with me all night and some of the day. and he worked very well ,it was just 4 weeks after that job he
died,at that time I did not know anying about the spleen and the risk if you did not have one,and even today years later I still think about that,I have been told by Doctors that my son dieing had nothing to do with any work he had done
in the past, but when you do jobs like that one it does make you think. - This has been angoing problem.
Again we all use the ferries, and thats business, we do
though need them to use cleaner fuels.
Im no expert on this, but a public meeting(maybe even at n/hood meeting)the very same subject was raised, and the Environmental health expert said the same, theres no real danger.
No one
believed him then, any more than now.hipping
Wonder if he lives anywhere near sea front??
Is he a shipping advisor, do they finance him at all
- Vic I
better try and knock some paragraphs into that last post as people wont be able to read it.
All done - very poignant item there about your son Vic...just because doctors tell you something it doesnt mean it didnt
happen.
Yes Roger saw your item in the Members Club, thanks for the tip as it was a programme worth seeing for sure. Again the experts told us there was no problem there
either..sheeesh!! - I think they should bring back the galley type slave ships that could quite easily row us all across the channel to the beat of Vic's drum beat.Clean and
ECO friendly.Those serving Community service orders,asylum seekers awaiting a decision and 'others' could all be conscripted to serve and row for their keep. - Thank you for that Paul my eyes are not that good,All the lads I got was off the doll I went down there to the office told I needed some lads to do painting on ships and cleaning of tanks e,t.c. and I can tell you they were all
very good and would do any jobs I asked of them,some of them were with me about two years all they needed was work and a leader, we would do up to 3 round trips aday painting and cleaning,all food was found for us on the ship+D/free at
times,One night two them got put in jail for drinking and fighting ,they told the police they were working with me,and had to be on the ship at 06oohrs,so i had to go down and bail them out,in the morning. - In the street they say. What do they say? The old lifeguard hut was demolished this morning on the beach. They say, don`t forget the other
one. - For the first time in year`s, you can now see the 2 sea front cafe`s with their pagoda roofs together nice and clearly. I have memories of them from childhood when money
wasn`t so abundant, and you appreciated an ice cream. Anyone know when they were built? - The above issue was bought up this very day by people I work with at Megger and that
live within the area.
But as they build these so called super ferries surely there must be some way of counter acting the pollution side of it and makeing them more ECO friendly, after all they manage it with cars why not ferries.
- I`m out of my depth on the above subject, but is all this ferry pollution, greater than all those countless lorry exhausts, up and down Townwall Street day in day out?
The above is the first time I`ve ever heard mention of ferry pollution. - Jan even though they are building these superferries they wont do anything to counteract the pollution
problem unless they are forced into it. Thats always been the problem. We used to get the story years ago about these scrubbers or filters that P & O were testing, but it emerged last night there is still only one in place...they are
still testing it or so they say which strikes me as balderdash. Remember, we heard about this scrubber story years ago.
Colin yes the truck issue with regard pollution is still a big one but the ferry story has run and run on
doverforum over the years as they too are guilty of serious emissons. I wake up in the morning here on the seafront and if the wind is coming from the east my flat fills up with rancid fumes....so its all too real. We were told at
Neighbourhood Forum meetings in the past that it was harmless but this new study by bods in Denmark has found out that its far from harmless. It is in fact a killer. - Many thanks Paul. I`ll take your word on that. I`ve never taken any notice of seeing the black fumes emitted from the funnel`s on the ferries, just thought it was departure time, and firing up as it were. It just looks like it
disperses harmlessly away, but obviously not. - seeing colette's post reminds me of when i e mailed speed ferries, opining that their crafts seemd to emit more black stuff than
the larger ferries.
i made it clear that i was not accusing them of anything, just giving a non scientific viewpoint of what the naked eye saw.
their reply was very swift and most offensive. - Paulb
Yes this story has rambled on, with few or no results.
I'm no expert but I cannot see how this stuff cannot be harmful to you.
Of course a lot of
this will be about eating into profits to rectify the problems, something they won't like doing.
Of course as has been stated from a health point of view we still do have the large number of lorries also causing the pollution
ptroblem, I wondr what the results of the pollution finding equipment placed on lorry routes, ie; corner ladywell, Townwall street, and a few others were, and if any, what action was taken? - Yes there is monitoring equipment in place Keef as you mention re the truck pollution, as I remember Nigel C explaining this to me several years ago. The pollution levels are monitored
but what is done with the monitored data..well gawd knows! They have to do something, so monitoring the stuff seems to be the only option. Other than monitoring...nothing.To be fair though the guys at DDC are probably only required to
monitor as action is probably beyond their remit. I dont know...if Nigel would come on he would be able to clear some of this up.
There was a report on shipping worldwide earlier this month and that may have inspired the BBC into
some local action but again this has been known for a long time, so we keep featuring it on doverforum in the offchance somebody might see it and be able to do something about it. One thing we know for sure though...the ferry companies
are very sensitive about it.
Anyway well done to Les Richmond who has highlighted the situation again on both accounts very successfully. Les would make a good member of this website, so if youre out there Les drop me an email to
dover7@msn.com and we will get you onboard. We have great sympathy with your cause. - I have not looked at all the post,s on this but please do not forget we have
also have alot of pollution in the high St by the town hall and we do not get alot of trucks going up there,cars,and the bus yes but h,g,v, only if the major roads have a problem do we get them coming up the high St, but the pollution is
about the same as the docks and roads that go in and out of them. I feel if you live down by the docks yes you are at more risk,but for the rest of us, I feel we are at more risk in our high st, along the front you have got the air
coming in from the sea e,t,c, but that is not the case in the high st. The pollution from cars etc,unless there is a high wind will just hang about in the roads so the way I see it is You are at more risk in the town. - Your correct VIC you didn't read all the posts
- PaulB
Only as a bit of trivia to the above,
poor old Johnny Mills had to down his lager in one but the actual scene took about 7 takes by which time he was totally smashed .He had to be helped off the set and back to the hotel where he slept it off. - lol!! Is that right Marek..never knew that. Still, I bet the lager went down well and a chap can always have an afteroon nap to sleep it off !!
Now off to have some early morn
coffee myself!
Hope all good over there Marek. - Having just checked my sources the above scene took 14 takes not 7...no wonder he was Brahms and
Liszt.. - The directors tried every combination possible from apple juice to cold tea, but only the 'real thing' would give the effect they needed on the glass. Some time back
I saw an interview with John Mills talking about all the retakes which was hilarious. - You will also note if you look carefully at the above pics that the heads on the
glasses of beer of his co-stars are all at different levels thats because they were all different takes!!!
Barry W-S
I remember that interview with Johnny Mills it had me in stitches also... - Indeed, one of the classic British films which Hollywood could never beat. Be like us trying to make a Western. And yes Paul, all that cigarette smoke, and many of us survived it. As
we`re now living longer, it`s the past that`s caused it not the modern day food additives, health and safety etc, Surely? My nan died 3 years ago. She loved her fried breakfasts, she worked in a pub in the 30s & 40s, liked her daily
whiskey, and the bingo hall. She was 106!! Just off now for a min, those pics are making me feel thirsty. - Just watch the lager levels go up and down!
Go to YouTube and type
in Ice Cold In Alex.
Terry - Thanks guys re the Ice Cold in Alex information. Didnt know any of that when I started...shudda googled first. Have changed page now as you
can see to a picture of yet another strike clobbering free trade out of Dover. - the port of calais put the kybosh on all sailings, so P & O could not cross
either.
surely the eu should step in and punish the french side over restraint of trade?
- Pardon my French, but bas****s.
- I wouldn't be surprised to see an announcement today or the very near future about this.
Could be a sad day (already is I guess).
Roger
- Sticking with the 'Ice Cold in Alex' theme, thanks Terry, I had a look at the youtube site, I wouldn't mind visiting that bar, Jeez! its like magic, you order a lager and
it constantly refills itself, just my type of pub. - The rowing shed has gone?
- That's it.
I undersand that a
couple of buildings will be going soon and those that remain will be done up.
Part of the Seachange for Dover seafront.
Roger - The
building before the kiosk is no longer with us. - Ah yes no fooling you guys..you are all way too clever. Clearly you all have to be sent for frontal labotomys!!
Yes
during the week they demolished the white building on the right in lower photo, which as DT says was used as a rowing shed. It now opens up the cafe, so that people sitting there enjoying their afteroon tea will have greater visibility,
and all the surrounding attractions will all kick into view.
Out of the picture, nearer this end as it were, there is another one that could stand demolition. - Do you mean
the Churchill Paul or the Premier Inn ??
Roger - Ah no neither of those Roger, they both play a big and successful part in seafront community life. The brown
shed thing at the near end of the beach. Hopefully that one will be next for demolition.
By the way speaking of The Churchill Hotel, I beleive there is a big meeting on there today late afteroon to mid evening about the Hospital
situation. It does not appear to be open to the public , although Gawd alone knows, as it has all been kept very quiet. Ive heard nothing official only whispers. - Yes there is a meeting and i know some people who are attending .I did not get an invite,although Im Chairman of Age Concern
- Not to worry Sue, your fellow forumite
and Age Concern Trustee will be there in his capacity as a member of the PCT and I am sure he will see that the interests of Dover's elder residents are well represented. - Ken maybe he will post on here??What has he to do with the PCT ??
I learn all the time . - I would like some info about who will represent other groups, apart
from elders. - susan and ken
why the private conversation?
you will not turn to stone by naming the trustee. - Good pictures there Colette, amazing to think that they were taken on your mobile phone, Great definition
- those photos look like they were taken out in the atlantic rather than the english channel.
- I thought a Uboat about to dive, but in colour instead of
black and white. - Reminds me of the one about the slaves on the Roman Galley. The roman centaur says to the slaves, I`ve got some good news and some bad news. The good news is
you`re all getting double rations today, the bad news is, the Captain wants to go water skiing later. - I can only assume the said trustee is Keith Langsford .I wonder if there
are any comments re the meeting . - thanks for that susan, i doubt that us mere mortals will ever know what the mighty have decreed.
- Keith Langsford is actually a member on here...he wrote to me to join up quite a while ago now but alas only made one post and that was on here on the frontpage. So if you
are out there Keith lets hear from you on this hospital topic or indeed any topic . - i sometimes see keith around, i know he is busy with his
charitable works, hi-kent and others, is also a school governor
will try to cajole him into posting..
- Its absolutely thrilling to watch the speed of the Norman Arrow up close and personal like that. Glad I caught
it in action en route to Dover, sad to see it go. - Paulb
Re
Drink Awareness
Maybe they would be better served going around the schools and catching the kids before they reach legal drinking age and before they adopt 'our' bad habits.
To be honest for most of us that enjoy a quiet drink
without getting brahms and liszt or wanting to become the next world boxing champion its far too late.But if the kids could see films,documentaries of what alcohol 'can do' to your career ,your health and liver. The effect it can have
on relationships and others then maybe some bright young kids wouldn't bother indulging or start drinking in the first place.
It's just a pity that until getting legless becomes 'so uncool and not funky' that it will continue
to happen. - Yes I think they do their health promos to early age groups as well Marek but this is obviously designed to catch those of us who are already
partaking and having a wee bit too much on a daily basis and gradually eroding our health
You are right about the 'Cool' aspect. We have to make it uncool again but a tall order. Smoking is also now very cool particularly among
girls up to 24, which is a great shame. You see them outside establishments sucking on their dreadful nicotine with their cigarettes held aloft in one hand as the arm rests supported by the other arm..you know the pose Im sure.
I
dont have any figures to hand but these 'habits' of alcohol and tobacco are on the rise. - PaulB
Here are some latest figures for smokers in the
UK
• Smoking fell to its lowest recorded level in 2007 – 21 per cent of the population of Great Britain aged 16 and over.
• 66 per cent of smokers said they wanted to give up.
• 17 per cent of smokers said they lit
up within five minutes of waking. Heavy smokers are more likely to light up immediately and 35 per cent of those smoking 20 or more a day do so, compared with 3 per cent of those smoking fewer than 10 a day
• Heavier smokers are
less likely to want to give up. The proportion wanting to give up in 2007 was highest among those smoking, on average, fewer than 20 cigarettes a day.
• Health concerns are the most commonly mentioned reason for quitting, with 86
per cent of people who want to give up mentioning at least one health reason. After health, the next most commonly mentioned reasons are costs (27 per cent), family pressure (20 per cent) and the effect on children (15 per
cent).
• Married or cohabiting people smoke less (18 per cent) than singles (28 per cent).
• Cigarette smoking is lower among households classified as professional and managerial (15 per cent) than among those classified as
routine and manual (26 per cent).
• Smoking is highest in the 20-24 age group (31 per cent) and lowest among those aged 60 and over (12 per cent).
- Here are
also some interesting stats on teenage boozers
In each case a sample of 15 and 16-year-olds from each country were asked whether they had been drunk in the last 30 days. The percentages represent the proportion of teenagers who
confirmed they had.
Denmark - 49% ;Isle of Man - 35% ;UK - 33%
Austria - 31% ;Ireland - 26% ;Slovak Republic - 25%
Spain - 25% ;Germany - 22% ;Bulgaria - 21%
Croatia - 21% ;Finland - 21% ;Czech Republic -
20%
Norway - 20% ;Slovenia - 20% ;Switzerland - 20%
Malta - 19% ;Russia - 19% ;France - 18%
USA - 18% (data from a comparable survey)
Sweden - 17%; Netherlands - 16%; Monaco - 13%
Poland - 13%;
Greece - 12% ; Italy - 12%
Portugal - 11% ; Belgium - 10%
Denmark where booze is about £7+ a pint is obviously having no effect on young drinkers.It rather weakens the govt. case to increase alcohol prices in the Uk in
the hope of combating underage and binge drinking.
- Thanks for all those stats Marek - excellent work there. My feeling is and I cant back it up
with stats unfortunately, but I think with regard to smoking there has been an increase or a bigger uptake amongst young people now than say 8 years ago..a sort of a resurgence, again because of the cool factor. Girls more so, girls as
we know like to look cool above all else and this is where they are particularly hit.
Girls too will be the biggest area showing alcohol increase. I saw binge drinking females about 19 on TV earlier this week...the group featured
really knock it back every wednesday and gawd do they drink. I dont know if anyone else saw it- dont have details as I came across it while channel hopping. - Paulb
It is a
very worrying trend,
Is it realy cool to have a fag stuck in your gob?
Ia think it looks horrid,
i realise its up to the individual, but cool? no afraid not - Just to add a little note about the beach pictures above as will be taking them down shortly. The white hut immediately the far side of the cafe is now also gone...vanished. Scooped away by a bulldozer...in the blink of an eye.
I didnt see that one going, here one minute gone the next.
There also appears to be another hut gone in the near beach just out of picture. So these are nice moves forward from the beach point of view. It is now altogether less
cluttered by miles and looks much better. Very good news. The new building will no doubt absorb all the activities. So great stuff all round.
* *
Amongst the younger ones Keef I think the notion is that they see it
as 'cool'. I think the point Marek was making was that if we somehow could make all this excess with both alcohol and tobacco 'uncool' the campaigns might be more effective. The ad campaigns have shown people its bad for your health,
we all know that one now, but its not stopping youngsters as they think they are immortal. - I saw the programme on TV earlier it was The Red Lion - which is the most common
name for a pub in the UK (over 600), the girls hockey team would all go out on a wednesday night and get absolutely plastered. They didn't seem to have a problem with it as they all looked after each other and felt if they didn't feel
hungover the next day it meant the previous night was wasted. Erm, is it me as that is the daftest thing I've heard for a long while? - whilst us adults make such an
issue about drinking, smoking and drug taking, effectively demonising them, then the young will see them as things to be enjoyed to spite the parents.
it has always been like that, the difference being that drugs and booze
are much more within the pocket of the young, and that beers are very much stronger. - I am looking forward to coming out of that newbuilding on boxing day for my dip
but what or who will I be dressed like this year.? But with my legs not so good now I will be walking into the water not running might even need help but one way or the other I will go in. - How about a sponsored push from a plank Vic ??!!
- Adult recently told me how she raised her kids
when they were
old enough to drive and passed test the first thing she got them was(nope not a car)
but a trip to a mortuary to show what had happened to some kids who thought they were bigger than 100 yeaR OLd trees
good idea - All together now.........always look on the bright side of life. Whistle along now, playmates!
- bern
i'm whistling but
no ones joining in - Barry W-S yes that was the programme.It featured all the Red Lions pubs in the UK or a selection of them anyway. Not able to get them all in of course.
A most popular name for some bizarre reason. Must be an English thing! It showed both the positive side and the downside of life among the Red Lions with yes that group of females representing the downside. Liver transplants will be top
of the agenda across the board in a few years time...but there we are. Do they listen...?
Still, that Drink Aware tour bus currently going across Kent as we featured yesterday in the editorial might make an impact. Good
luck.
Vic I'll be down there to photograph you as ever on Boxing Day all being well. You have made some great pictures over the years. They are still in the archives on here.. if anyone has lots of spare time they can trawl
through at length. - I realise we probably are in the minority on this one, but never the less I join
in in feeling this is a mistake putting the BNP on question time.
This is not about any groups freedom of speech, this is about giving credibility to a group og racists.
I'm all for freedom of speech, but I fear that the
BNP will now be seen as a credible body on TV.
I don't know who the panel are, or in fact whether they are up to the debate on a programme such as this.
The BBC has gone down in my estimations, I feel sorry for all those
people who will i'm sure get the backlash after this appearance, where racist fanatics will assume they are credible and able to carry on openly racists attacks.
Its a sad day - Today’s local papers ran on their front pages accounts of the Hospital meeting, held at the Churchill Hotel on Monday 19 October. On the whole they were fair comment of what the big names had to say.
As a little person
– a mere local who pays taxes that pay the big names wages – I am going to reiterate here, the point I made at that meeting as I feel that it is important.
Although I am a nobody, I was the person who successfully took the
argument for a Community Hospital, in line with the White Paper, Our Health, Our Care, Our Say, to the KCC-Health and Overview Scrutiny Committee (KCC-HOSC).
The EKHUFT (Hospital Trust), provide services, the PCT pay for them and
are SUPPOSE to look after our interests.
I brought the case, as I was able to show that the PCT were putting the needs of the Hospital Trust before ours – the people of Dover and district.
Following the KCC-HOSC
decisions, it was agreed to provide the hospital services that we are entitled to, within our locality and the PCT agreed to provide £20m towards those services
In November 2008 a contract was signed whereby the Hospital Trust
were to provide them
The Hospital Trust has now effectively pocketed the money.
All we are getting is the crumbs that the Hospital Trust said they would provide before the KCC-HOSC hearings … and they are only temporary until
the Hospital Trust sell the Buckland site … I have the minutes of meetings to prove it and Stuart Bain (CX of the Hospital Trust) implied that in his speech at the meeting.
At the meeting, I asked, and again I am asking through
this Forum, why did the PCT give the contract to the EKHUFT (Hospital Trust), when there were alternative providers? Further, now the Hospital Trust have effectively stolen what is rightfully ours, what are the PCT going to do about it?
Lorraine Sencicle
- Hi Lorraine, didn 't a bloke called Hansell have a lot to do with this issue? he still does so im told
- Lorraine a very interesting piece there. I think myself the general public are becoming bewildered by this hospital situation. The latest meeting you refer to at The Churchill Hotel
seemed to exclude everyone except those in the know...it was by invitation only as I understand it..so no wonder the public feel cast adrift. What on earth is going on?
The latest news that Buckland is being considered as the
'new' location seems extremely odd when one considers that it was allowed to run down through lack of space, lack of parking, lack of decent access. It all sounds like a script for Looney
Tunes! - The meeting last Monday was closed - for stakeholders only. I am a stakeholder as I took the case for a Community Hospital with full facilities as advised by the
Government White Paper 'Our Health, Our Care, Our Say, to the KCC-HOSC in May and September 2008 ... and won.
Mr Hansell and a couple of members of his entourage are also stakeholders as they have done everything in their power,
successfully, to stop Dover having such facility.
The majority of the media have been on their side and this has enabled the EKHFT to justify pocketing the £20m and the PCT to turn their backs on us.
Albeit, I have legal
powers and I have therefore used this such that on 30 October at Maidstone the case will be reviewed again by the KCC-HOSC.
Whether I will take it any further will depend on the outcome of that meeting, the reaction of DDC/DTC and
the behaviour of our media.
Lorraine
- Thanks Lorraine I think Paul has a point, was there a problem with advertising this meeting? why shouldn't
the public be present and have a say>?
Is Dover gong to get a hspital to be poud of?
PAUL;B
I think Buckland hospital; would take to much mony wise to put right, most of it is so old as a building.
I don't go
wsith the opinion that other hospitals just as easy to get to, as your not taught if you ever do first, your told how quick a life can be lost.
- I saw Question
time too last night and thought that people today in the papers have twisted or exaggerated what Nick Griffin said.
He didn't condemn homosexuals, he just said that holding hands and kissing in the street by gay men was not
right.
He didn't condemn Muslins per sae, just the fanatics.
He didn't defend the Ku Klux Klan, he shared a stage with one of them.
I don't like their extreme views at all, I couldn't oppose them any more than I
do and I realise that as soon as it appears I might be defending him (which I'm not at all), I'll get some abuse too I guess.
If he came across as vile a man as the papers say, then he has dug his own (political) grave; I did
think it was pointless that every one on the panel just kept wading in with their own verbal abuse - it could have been counter-productive.
Roger - this whole
hospital thing seems to be a battle between personalities and factions.
try getting any info from these organisations with all the initials and you just get website not operative.
looks like the 20 million is gone.
still a meeting must be held with the in crowd to confirm the news.
all very sad for the inform and elderly who will have to continue to travel. - "He
didn't condemn homosexuals, he just said that holding hands and kissing in the street by gay men was not right."......??!! Given that actually we all probably feel uncomfortable when ANYONE gets to fondling in the streets (or am I
alone?) what is it but condemnation when a group is singled out as being less acceptable in their affections?
"He didn't condemn Muslins per sae, just the fanatics." - I would like to see how he made the definition. In a
climate of hatred and mistrust the words used by a politician are crucial. Has he, for example, offered everyone a guaranteed method of detecting a fanatic, or is it simply anyone who attends a Mosque?
"He didn't defend the
Ku Klux Klan, he shared a stage with one of them." Seriously.........there was a defence going on there, even I can see that!!! And I am a fluffy-headed kitten-loving, tapestry-headed, futile woman!
I know you mean well, Roger,
but, come on!!! - And now, in order to keep his profile high, the wuss is "complaining" because it was "unfair". Is it, Mr Griffin, as unfair as forced repatriation? As
unfair as being judged on the colour of your skin or what you do in the bedroom?
- BERN
I'm pleased you have come out with views that you have.
ROGER on this very
forum(and this is not attack, just an observation) clearly supports many of the views of GRIFFIN and of course thats his right.
As you say BERN Roger has attempted to defend(even in a round a bout way) thats fine.
But be
honest about it, if you share the views of the BNP thats fine, but don't pretend you don't.
Clearly last night was always going to be about the BNP why else would the BBC invite him.
You are correct BERN with regard to
Griffins views on many subjects including klu klux klan, homosexuality
what was more worrying was what he didn't answer.
Now griffin has complained to BBC about bias!!!!!
so as has been said all along thre ABNP will
milk this as much as the can, they are laughing all the way to the elections.
No matter what side you come from, unless your looking at this with rose tinted glsasses, griffin didnt answer many questions, and realy missed a great
opportunity to promote himself and his racist party.
this debate will go on but whats most important is that the major parties need to learn, and re-engage with the electorate
the clock is
ticking,,,,,,,,,,,,, - i think you are being mischievous here keith, roger has clearly stated that he has no support for nick griffin or his views.
- Thank you Howard.
I have not defended Nick Griffin or the BNP at all; I have tried to clarify some of the points raised and things said.
I do not support him or
the politics he stands for - at all; how much clearer does it have to be ?
Roger - HOWARD/ROGER
I do understand where Roger is coming from,
I think its
more about what Griffin didn't say that remains an issue.
BERN and others are correct
Why would you want to share/support the Klu Klux Klan, if like griffin was trying to indicate the BNP is no longer a racist
party?
Wouldnt it be seen by the public that the BNP has very similar interests,
Obviously this issue is going to run and run.
I would like to hear griffin condemn the violence which may involve some of his
members - I need to be clear: I do not think Roger supports or made excuses for the BNP or Nick Griffin, I think he tried to put a little oil on troubled water. My own view
is that Griffin is indefensible and Roger should stop being nice! Griffin is the unacceptable face of fascism, however on elooks at it, and I guess we need to have that in mind, while supporting his right to be
heard. - just spotted the add on from paul, the paragraph that starts "but the actual programme" is a brilliant resume of events last evening.
i watched for nearly 10
minutes before switching over to newsnight.
it was school playground stuff with everyone from the audience to the panellists and today the media, wanting to be seen on the side of "good".
the politicians must have loved
it, took the heat off of them for a while. - DO understand where your coming from HOWARD but have to say had the political parties and panel not made the effort to try
to get griffn to admit his and his parties views, then they would have been condemned for not doing so - Sorry for keep on coming back to the hospital business, but in
answer to the points raised below:
No, we are not gong to get a hospital - as per the old District General Hospital, because of the proximity of the big three.
Are we going to get the Community Hospital that we are (were)
entitled to?
Highly unlikely because:
i. The people of Dover, through Mr Hansell and the media have made it clear they don't want it.
ii. £20m was made available for it but has been used for other purposes - although stated
that it would be available if a suitable site is found, this is, in my view, a typical empty promise that we are all use to.
Are we going to get a polyclinic similar to that a Folkestone? Possibly, but because of the flooding
problems will not be immediately until they are sorted out.
Will we keep Buckland Hospital? For the short term but soon as the housing market picks up, as much as possible of that will be sold off.
Does the EKHUFT - who are
paid to provide services care? NO. They have no legal responsibility as to how far or how difficult it is for us to access their services and it is cheaper for us to travel to their favoured locations than paying for their staff to come
to us.
Does the PCT - the commissioning agents and suppose to look after our interests care? NO, we are merely some 60,000 people out of nearly 7m whom they are responsible for and only two of their senior officers bothered to
turn up last Monday (19 October). They also organised the meeting and ensured that it was closed.
- Thank you Lorraine for your very constructive posting .Im
not in the game of naming and shaming but I dont think the press and Mr Hansell have helped and as you so rightly say we probably have lost the twenty million.We are never going to get a general hospital.I have this on very good
authority when small hospitals are being closed .We may now have lost a chance of a facility where minor injuries could have been looked at and consultants visiting patients locally instead of travelling to the larger designated
hospital .The fact a patient needs to be referred to a consultant is worring enough but that could have been done locally and reduced stress..Yes that land at Buckland Hospital will eventually go for housing you cannot keep patching
up old buildings .The flood plain has been an issuie but could have been resolved .Yes it was a closed meeting and im not sure how many councillors were invited but i could have attended with my Age Concern hat .
I hope i have not
over repeated Lorraines points but it is sad to see her good efforts threwn out of the window . - Nick Griffin and the BNP, how can anyone take a party seriously no matter how
distasteful their policies are, when their leader doesen't take up the best PR opportunity ever to further their cause. I do not agree with any of their vile aims or racial policies, but I believe in the right of free speech. I do not
think this has improved the BNP's standing as a party and hopefully the opposite will happen now that teetering voters see them in their true colours. - BARRY B-S
I
also hope that the BNP after that pathetic performance on q/time the public see through it.
its frightening if the public don't and where it could lead.
SUE/LORRAINE
R Hansell has a completely diffrent view to
yourselves and i would want reg on my side if i wanted a campaign machinery and with all his knowlege and of course the shared supportr of charlie elphick and g prosser - keith
the whole thing seems to be a political football.
i try to find out why the 20 million is a goner, i just get bald statements about people involved.
do you seriously think that chas and gwyn would ever
get together for the good of dover?
party politics is far too important for a hospital to mean anything.
- I would hope that charlie is sincere for a
hospital for Dover i know gwyn is - not really the point keith, we seem to have two opposite tribes losing us the hospital, the mp and mp hope to be elect dont seem to be
involved.
photo opportunities by the dozen, but nothing concrete. - DONT THINK CHARLIE OR GWYN WOULD AGREE WITH YOU HOWARD BUT THATS FOR THEM TO REPLY TO
YOU - As the self proclaimed fountain of all knowledge of local politics I appreciate that one is expected to bow to Keith's superior understanding of both Gwyn Prosser's
and Charlie Elphicke's relationship with Mr Hansell.
However, as a researcher, I felt that I ought to check this out. I have therefore brought Keith's submission to the attention of both parties and leave them to
comment.
With regards to Sue's views on the hospital situation, I certainly recognise her understanding. She has not been in the thick of it as I have, but she has been party too many of the discussions, inquiries and
research.
As a local historian, however, I feel that I should point out that Mr Hansell did not become interested in the hospital issue until he defected from the Labour Party and found himself in the political
wilderness.
Keith is correct in saying, in effect, that Mr Hansell is politically astute. It is well recognised that popularist statements are vote winners – parallels can be drawn with another politician in the media spotlight at
the moment.
However, what is far harder for a politician is to tell the truth and fight for what is RIGHT. Winston Churchill found this out the hard way … he spent some seven years in the doldrums for taking that stance. And
then, after winning the right of democracy, was voted out of office because he wanted the threats that still existed to be dealt with. A few years later he was back …!
With regards to the hospital issue, we had a major chance of
getting 90% of the services to meet the town’s needs … but that was not a vote winner and Mr Hansell rejected it – I have his e-mail following the KCC-HOSC of 9 May 2008.
After that, like the Pipe Piper of Hamlin, he has led
Dover to …!
Lorraine
- Lovely picture Paul.
- i appreciate your comments lorraine, but
it is getting back to personalities again .
you refer to an e mail from mr hansell but decline to say what is in it.
do you not think that the people of dover deserve an explanation as to why a promised 20 million for a
hospital is no more? - Wonderful picture Paul, I find a sunrise always warms the soul.
- We always
seem to have a problem in this town agreeing how best to move forward. We cannot agree now about the best hospital idea and it has left us missing out. As I understand it, and Im far from totally clear on this ,as its hard to follow
these hospital debates not having been at the meetings and so forth, but we appear to have lost the £20Million that was allocated to us because of dithering. This money s I understand it can be re-allocated from a future budget should we
be able to come up with a plan we can all agree on.
For heavens sake we need to do that, or the opportunity could be lost.
People on here have told me how Dover has missed out in the past on various projects because we
couldnt agree this or that, McArthur Glen has been mentioned for example, or now even the ASDA move forward is beginning to look scuppered. If people keep disagreeing we will reach total stalemate and in the end get
nothing.
Thanks Colin/ Barry W-S re the picture. I wanted to put up a picture which related to the hospital situation but alas had nothing...so I opted for that one as needed to get rid of Nick Griffin at this point.
Would
be good to hear from Gwyn or Charlie re Hospital, either leave a message on the NEW Open Letters Page or become a member...just drop me a line guys if you want to become a member, always welcome of
course. - If at first you don’t succeed in putting forward comments try again.
I
WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE that personalities should not come into such an important issue as a hospital for Dover.
Sadly, following the hearing of May 2008, when I won the argument for a Community Hospital, with the services we were
(at that time) entitled to, the MEDIA decided I DID NOT HAVE any PERSONALITY. They focused on the person who did – even though he did not want what was rightfully ours – and one local paper couldn’t even find space for what I had to
say!
Next Friday the KCC-HOSC will be having another hearing and below is my submission:
Dear Members of the KCC-Scrutiny Committee
First, in 2008, through the then PPIF-PCT, I submitted a report to the KCC-HOSC on
the plight of the people of Dover and District in trying to get the hospital facilities they were entitled to and spelled out in the Government White Paper ‘Our Health, Our Care, Our Say.’
At the time the EKHT, as it then was,
had systematically run down Dover’s Buckland Hospital and the PCT had come up with a half-baked idea, called the Dover Project that failed to meet the needs of the people of Dover and District.
The case was heard on 09.05.2008 and
reviewed on 05.09.2008.
Under the law, as it presently stands, the role of the:
Hospital Trusts, such as the EKHUFT, is that of a service PROVIDER
The PCT is the CONTRACTOR on behalf of the patients in their
area.
The two organisations are separate entities.
At the KCC-HOSC hearing of 09.05.2008 it was agreed that the PCT would provide the people of Dover and District the services listed below. These are in line with the
Government White Paper ‘Our Health, Our Care, Our Say’.
During the summer of 2008 the PCT, as Commissioning Agents, made available £20m for the provision of these services.
Further, at the KCC-HOSC of May 2008 a deadline
for the decision as to where the provision of a facility should be sited was set at September 2008.
Ignoring the OJEU ruling that contracts over £100,000 have to be advertised throughout the EC. The PCT, in November 2008, signed a
contract with the then EKHUT (now EKHUFT) for the provision of the services and a facility in which to house them.
On 1 April 2009 the Hospital Trust achieved Foundation status that enabled them, amongst other things, to make
financial decisions on their own behalf and raise money accordingly without going through the PCT.
During the summer of 2009 the Environmental Agency announced that due to the combined problems of an outdated and inadequate
sewerage system in Dover plus the impact of global warming, that the preferred site was unsuitable at the present without major upgrading of infrastructure. Adding that these modifications could be fast tracked.
It is now
24.10.2009 and the EKHUFT has:
1. Merely undertaken cosmetic upgrading of the former Buckland Hospital site – the rest remains in a dangerous state of dereliction.
2. Stated that the Buckland Hospital site is not fit for purpose.
This reiterated many times previously.
3. Condemned all other proposed sites as not being fit for purpose.
4. Used the £20m contracted to provide a facility and services in Dover, in line with those listed below, for other
purposes.
Thus the PCT have not followed OJEU rulings with regards to the contract, which is, I believe, unlawful. Second, the EKHUFT are deliberately failing in delivery of the contract using the £20m for other
purposes.
Lorraine Sencicle
24th October 2009
Apendix
On 9 May 2008 at the KCC-HOSC hearing, the case for a Community Hospital for Dover was won; the services (detailed at the KCC-HOSC 5th September 2008)
included:
Comprehensive range of outpatient clinics.
Full range of diagnostic services
Regular routine clinics for Phlebotomy, Chemotherapy, Physiotherapy, Hearing Tests, Renal Dialysis, Podiatry and Orthopaedics.
Day
Surgery Unit.
Inpatient beds for observation … for post day surgery when problems arise … and for minor accidents etc.
Intermediate beds, for patients returning to Dover after acute hospital care.
Birthing Unit with all the
facilities that Buckland has at the moment plus medical back-up.
Specialist children’s facilities similar to the present Carousel Unit plus inpatient beds.
Decent size MIU, open at least 15 hours a day, 7 days a week including
bank holidays.
Supportive Care in relation to Mental health, Sexual health, Counselling etc.
Long Term disability services on our own door-step
End of Life facility – that is, we would be able to die near to our homes and loved
ones rather than 20+ miles away.
- I know from my own expeience that this will be the result of a combination of factors which will probably include
ineptitude and stonewalling. If the health reps were more persoanally accountable and traceable it would be less tempting for them to ignore local voices and government directives. - It is extraordinary there Lorraine that you were regarded with someone without..ermm..how will I put it..without sufficient personality. Of course youve got quite a personality, but the media do like to focus on pehaps someone
who may be better played out as a victim, if I can put it that way. You only have to look at the local news programmes on TV to see this situation played out everyday. The victim against the odds. Those local TV programmes can be dull in
this pursuit at times, as they appear to regurgitate the same type of story very often... the victim against the system, just the faces change but the story remains the same.
The services outlined in the 9May appendix at the
bottom of your post (25 october 11.50am) indicates that we were due to get some pretty good facilities right in the center of town. All look good to me. With a supermarket and hospital right in the center of town it will keep the place
alive. A slightly different point there but one I like to flag up when I can. - You are absolutely right Paul, the media do like to play up the victim ...
- even though I
have been deaf most of my life - I am registered deaf
- have been fighting an aggressive cancer since 2002
- plus a low grade one (brought on by drugs to fight primary), since May 2008,
I don't make for a tragic looking
figure, so I am classed as not having any personality.
Concerning the facilities I listed, not only were these available for the people of Dover and district, but also a Government grant to pay for them!
Some local
politicians did not want them as not having a facility was/is a great vote winner.
The Hospital Trust had/have their eyes fixed firmly on selling the Buckland site so didn‘t even both putting a case together for the grant.
As for the PCT ... I despair.
Lorraine
- interesting stuff there from chas, i still think that the maison dieu site would be the best, the
environment agency are being a bit over the top here. however buckland mill is hardly a trek from the main areas of population.
whitfield would just be another nail in the coffin of our town.
what do other posters think?
what does our mp think? - Howard
I totally agree with you.
The Town needs this as part of regeneration, the town has seen decline because of the
"Whitfield City syndrome" and desparately needs this sort of regeneration.
From what we read the drainage etc is not a problem that can't be resolved.
If one looks at what the River Dour was (water energy for mills and
industry) it does not take much to see how several of the ponds upstream have become silted up because of a failure to keep clear by the Environment Agency. By silting up the water is passed down river and this is possibly a greater risk
than all the drainage items that have been raised.
What about the old postal sorting office site being considered even at this late stage or is this still a flood risk, as if so how will this site ever be regenerated??
Certainly from the start there has been more time on political issues than singing from one hymn sheet to secure the hospital that Dover so badly needs. I hope both Gwyn and Charlie will realise that this time wasting for
political ends may easily have cost Dover its hospital.
- i would certainly agree about the politics bit pat, the people that hold the purse strings with 20 million
inside must have felt that somewhere more deserving and less ungrateful should have the money.
i really don't see the flooding issue as that serious, a will to overcome that is paramount.
as you have pointed out the
environment agency have played a big part in the present problem, they should be offering a solution instead of putting obstacles in the way of our hospital.
- Howard,look at the Town's regeneration if this part of the Town is at risk of a flood,what chance has any regeneration got in the area,there must be ways of sorting this,and one thing this Town doesn't need is to move more to
Whitfield - that is what i am saying john.
pat has pointed out about the silting up of the river and the responsibility of the environment agency in sorting out the
river.
the dour is basically a chalk stream, not the amazon.
how can it seriously affect the regeneration of dover? - I must have said the same thing
hundreds of times on here.
The Environment Agency do go over the top on many occasions, especially on planning issues.
For example, where the Sandwich Flats are and South of there, the EA say it is on a flood-risk area
(from the sea) and yes I would guess it is; the EA are responsible for ensuring that the area doesn't flood - through better sea defences, but they won't spend the necessary money to reduce/eliminate the risk, so they stop houses
being built there and south of that area, which also involves Sandwich and Deal.
So anything greater than a puddle, is a flood risk.
If there's a flood risk in the mid-town area of Dover, then Southern Water and the EA should
be getting their heads together and resolving this problem.
Roger - We live near the sea, next to a river, in Britain. Flood risk? D'oh! Assess the risk, put
the appropriate stategies in place - that's what you are paid for, EA!!!! - During my time as the PPIF-PCT representative for the Dover and District with special responsibility
regarding the Dover Project (the Hospital), which was some two years, I was not legally allowed to comment on a specific site for these facilities.
My task was to hammer away as to the facilities we were/are entitled to. These
were listed in my posting of a couple of days ago and reiterated at the end of this posting.
Now that I am no longer legally contrained, I can publicly state that my favoured site is Buckland Mill ... dismissed by Charlie Elphicke
as too expensive, but as a supporter of Mr Hansell, he would say that wouldn't he?!!!
The expense in getting over the flood problems for a hospital there will be no more than that for yet more social housing, which is proposed
for the site ... and the money for dealing with the problem of flooding there is already available.
The Buckland Mill site is:
Accessible to the people of Dover and district,
There is massive space for car parking,
especially if the Community Hospital is built on stilts and ...
It will help to regenerate our town and get rid of an unsightly industrial wasteland.
On 9 May 2008 at the KCC-HOSC hearing, I won the case for a Community
Hospital for Dover which included the services (detailed at the KCC-HOSC 5th September 2008), but rejected by Mr Hansell (in writing 11.05.2008) which justified them to be ignored by the EKHUFT and the PCT:
Comprehensive range of
outpatient clinics.
Full range of diagnostic services
Regular routine clinics for Phlebotomy, Chemotherapy, Physiotherapy, Hearing Tests, Renal Dialysis, Podiatry and Orthopaedics.
Day Surgery Unit.
Inpatient beds for
observation … for post day surgery when problems arise … and for minor accidents etc.
Intermediate beds, for patients returning to Dover after acute hospital care.
Birthing Unit with all the facilities that Buckland has at the
moment plus medical back-up.
Specialist children’s facilities similar to the present Carousel Unit plus inpatient beds.
Decent size MIU, open at least 15 hours a day, 7 days a week including bank holidays.
Supportive Care in
relation to Mental health, Sexual health, Counselling etc.
Long Term disability services on our own door-step
End of Life facility – that is, we would be able to die near to our homes and loved ones rather than 20+ miles
away.
- Sorry - I realise this must have been stated and re-stated on here, but, in a nutshell, if this was all agreed and won last year, why is it not being
built as we speak? (I know there was a concern about flooding, but given that that is manageable.....) - In a nutshell, Bern ... Mr Hansell, his political allies and media friends
made it clear to the health authorites that the people of Dover didn't want what was legally ours ... they are only interested in self-publicity and selling newspapares.
Jo Public in Dover fell for their speil hook, line and
sinker and the EKHUFT have taken the £20m and used it for other purposes.
The flood risk is there BUT and would have only delayed things while it was being dealt with. Now, unless pressure can be brought to bare on Friday we have
lost what is rightfully ours.
Lorraine - Thank you.
What do we need to do? I am not surprised by the apparent manipulations going on, but I do want a
chance to scupper them! We need a hospital here. - Lorraine
I agree that there has been political self publicity as I also posted yesterday.
You mention that
Buckland Mill site the hospital could be built on stilts. So could it in the Mid-Town.
The Buckland Mill site may require a great deal of time (which from what all say is not on as there is a limit to when the £20m is available).
As it is already started with the housing project which has had full planning agreement and so would involve a purchase (very expensive and possibly time consuming) from the developer.
The Mid-Town site is available, it is
convenient for public transport (near to main bus point in Pencester as well as the railway station at Dover Priory)
The DDC have already stated their preference is Mid Town and we should all be pushing to get the £20m and for the
EA and S Water to sort out any drainage issues.
Time is I feel the essence and if plans are in place for Mid-Town then we should not go back to the drawing board for a new site and then lose the chance of getting the hospital that
Dover urgently needs
I hope our MP and other politicians can ALL work to get a satisfactory result for Dover and stop attempting to score points against each other.
You mention a meeting on Friday. As Bern has said "what
can we do" , Is it a public meeting, can we send written comments to someone. Yet again it seems things are being done without the views of the people of Dover???
- Well
theres a lotb to reply to so heres my bit.
Firstly let me explain that I have not been heavily involved for years in the campaign for a hospital in Dover(where ever it may go) So do not have the knowlege of Lorrain, Reg Hansell,ts
charlie boy or Gwyn.
All i have posted is my own personal view, and given pos ts to remind posters that a number of people are out there campaigning for a hospital in Dover.
I won't get into this mud slinging that lorraine has
chosen as a route, but will continue to post with my view on the situation as far as i see, thats what i thought the forum was all about.
I do hope both GWYN AND Charlie boy don't play party politics on this issue but with an
election looming Im sure they both will.
I have never hiddren the fact that Reg Hansell is a friend of mine(why should I) all iv said is Reg has a diffrent view to lorraine as does charlie and gwyn have differing views to
lorraine(if what lorraine posts on this issue is correct, i don't know because I havn't asked them)
Lorraine, yes i'v been a politician for 25 years but been out of it for over 2 years now im glad to say.
That doesn't mean
I know any more than anyone else, just giving my viewpoint.
On reg's relationship Charlie, I think Charlie could see a campaign and lent his name to it, whether this was politically motivated only Charlie can answer i'm not his
spokesperson!!!!
on reg's relationship with Gwyn, if your suggesting (lorraine)that reg/gwyn are cosy together, they you have mis judged things.
On my own view(and thats all it is) with no personal attack on
anyone
All I want to see is Dover get the hospital it deserves, one to be proud of, I have no preferred site, only that Dover gets it.
I hope that anyone campaigning for a better hospital for Dover will
1; not
make it into a political football(hard to avoid)
2; All fight for better hospital facilities
3; win the campaign
On flood plains ROGER
You know we all been through this on how agencies including the councils planning dept
will make every reason why something CANT happen and rarely reasons why they can!!!!!!!!
Dover MUST win this campaign
and to be quite honest I don't care who achieves it, only that it IS achieved. - ok - given that it is inevitably going to be a political game and peope are going to be devious and manipulative, it is bound to get personal and points will be scored: what do we
need to do as ordinary proles?
I thank you in anticipation. - absolutely nothing bern, there were public meetings a couple of years ago about the future of buckland, they
were just a stage managed thing that gave us the impression that we were being listened to.
terry nunn will remember more.
nowadays it is all about groups with important sounding initials failing to get a hospital
here.
unless the full weight of gwyn, chas and the two warring factions are thrown at the issue, we will remain without this facility. - There's your answer
then - get on the backs of Gwyn and Charlie. I will forthwith construct a letter and an email. Anyone got Charlies email address? I have Gwyns. - bern
chas has his own website
and is on facebook.
best thing would be to send a private message on one of those. - Thanks Howard.
- Just getting off the hospital issue for a moment but nevertheless still indicating why we need one...a man was shot in the stomach in the Alkham Valley Road last evening, thats just outside Dover, following a road rage
incident. The BBC text service has this story. It says that the shot victim was eventually taken to William Harvey Hospital in Ashford, a long way to go if youve been shot. However if you have indeed been shot you are not going to worry
too much if the William Harvey itself was built on a floodplain or not.
The gunman headed off in the direction of Dover, a witness said. So that's a bit of cheerful news to digest over your cornflakes this morning. The fact that
there's a gunman wandering around Biggin St or what have you... - PAULB
On all the first aid courses Iv been on, all have said about life and how it can be
lost within minutes if not treated.
So the argument for a Dover Hospital and the number both living here and visiting Dover must be enough to determine a better hospital in Dover - The argument that some emergeny services are happy with the WHH as the local hospital do not wash. It is not the emergency services (some of whose callcentres are mile saway and
manned by people with ni local knowledge anyway) who determine local services. they respond, they do not plan or form strategic plans. It is self evident that a town with a busy port, limited access, large migrant and vulnerable
population, many schools and other public facilities, needs a hospital. It will take long enough to build as it is - for Gods sake get on with it!!! - BERN
With you all the
way - Having been a passenger in a car, on my way to receive radiotherapy, that was the victim of road rage back in 2002, I have never driven since.
Reading
your submission Paul this morning, on what happened in Alkham last night, made me sick.
On Friday I was hoping for a lift to put the case forward - yet again - for a Community Hospital in Dover. Whatever Mr Hansell's views on the
subject, to date, unlike myself, he has NOT taken legal action on the issue.
Perhaps with the some of the views expressed below and what happened in Alkham, I would be better staying at home.
Lorraine - Lorraine
What I have said is that we should have a combination of people to fight/campaign or if legal action is affordable and a route to be used.
But by running
an individual down isn't going to help.
All pull togethe is my motto - Yes Keith
It is the hospital that is needed and personalities and political points
scoring must be cast aside in order to have a united front.
I have my strong political views and would raise these where appropriate but with time running out for the good of Dover let everyone pull in the same direction. What is
past is past and wont alter.
Yesterday I had an appointment at William Harvey late morning, in the afternoon, in Canterbury ... I am still getting over the journey.
Next Friday I go into WHH for an OP to be there at 7.30am ... luckily I do have a lift. If the hospital facilities I won had been available, then I would be able to get this treatment in Dover.
Keith, Pat S, and anyone else who
supports the person who has deliberately gone out of his way to destroy this is bad enough.
But to say that myself, DDC and most Councillors ...as well as our MP should jump on the band wagon of someone who has deliberately
destroyed the opportunity to get what is rightfully ours and who has stubbornly refused to back us just to get back into politics, is beyond my ken.
Thank you Paul for allowing this debate to take place ... the local papers
refused ... it has certainly opened my eyes to what waste of time it has been as far as trying to get what is rightfully ours … to remind you:
Comprehensive range of outpatient clinics.
Full range of diagnostic services
Regular
routine clinics for Phlebotomy, Chemotherapy, Physiotherapy, Hearing Tests, Renal Dialysis, Podiatry and Orthopaedics.
Day Surgery Unit.
Inpatient beds for observation … for post day surgery when problems arise … and for minor
accidents etc.
Intermediate beds, for patients returning to Dover after acute hospital care.
Birthing Unit with all the facilities that Buckland has at the moment plus medical back-up.
Specialist children’s facilities similar
to the present Carousel Unit plus inpatient beds.
Decent size MIU, open at least 15 hours a day, 7 days a week including bank holidays.
Supportive Care in relation to Mental health, Sexual health, Counselling etc.
Long Term
disability services on our own door-step
End of Life facility – that is, we would be able to die near to our homes and loved ones rather than 20+ miles away.
- lorraine
this hospital that you won personally, i do not see it.
surely only power and influence and a team effort will bring us one that we can actually use?
what matters most?
injured feelings or
injured people? - Let's look at the first few sentences of Lorraines posting: she had a lift and was lucky enough to be able to attend on time, without having to use
the abysmal public transport that would have taken time and energy, or pay extortionate parking fees for the privilege of receiving treatment she has already paid for (but is still told it is free in all the anti-NHS publicity). It is
our right to have the treatment we need in the place where we need it - in 21st century developed society, how we deal with the sick and vulnerable is a measure of who we are. - LORRAINE
You will see at no point has Mr Hansell/ The MP/ or charlie come on here for a slagging match.
Its all to easy to be critical of others, What will happen isthe very people we would like to contribute on
here, won't because of the fear of a never ending slagging off and its all your fault type posts.
IM aware Mr Hansell is as dedicated as Lorraine to getting a hospital for Dover.
And im sure charlie boy wouldn't have put his
name to Reg's campaign if he felt it was anything other than a campaign for a Dover hospital.
To be honest I don't care if Mr Hansell wants to get back into politics thats his choice, but this is 1 of many campaigns he has put a
lot of effort into.
He is also taking on the water boards.
But as I have said It's all about Dover getting what It deserves and I don't realy care who it is that achieves it, but only hope it is
achieved!! - I do not care where it goes as long as we get one.
- it would be nice if mr
hansell stated his case on here keith.
gwyn and chas(as already said) would be more than welcome to post too.
it would not be electioneering as any decision is unlikely to be very soon. - howard
Thats up to them, I think MR Hansell would rather just get on aand do the job - Dear
Lorraine
You state I support Mr Hansell.
If you READ my postings you will find no mention of any support for anyone.
I had made it clear that I, like many others, had preferred a Mid-Town site as it would help with
regeneration.Mr Hansell is favouring Whitfield which was not what I supported.
As I said on my last posting the past is the past and like most people of Dover the priority is to get a hospital at whatever site is deemed correct
for building.
- I had this very swift reply to an email I sent to Mr Elphicke today. His swift response and sense commend him. Nice One!!!
Hi
Bernadette,
I have been following it all with interest too. I keep pressing everyone to get on, choose a site and build it. To get on with it sharpish too, as we now risk losing the money. There are three possible sites, I prefer
the Mill or Whitfield as you can expand those sites to a proper hospital later. Yet the key thing is for them to get on, choose and build.
And all I can do as a candidate is use the power of megaphone diplomacy. If I were the MP
I would bang heads together with gusto. But I'm not and I can't - at least not now! Believe me, if I become the MP at some point I will be banging heads together with great vigour. The people need this. End of.
I hope this is
clear and helpful. If not please let me know. And let me know what more you think I could do to advance this cause that is dear to my heart.
Best wishes
Charlie
- i
see that ddc are still backing the mid town option, health officials have added charlton green to the list.
all seems reasonable to me. - Whitfield appears to
becoming the favourite option to the majority of those that can influence - Dare I ask : what's that about
then....? - charlie says he supports whitfield r hansell supports whitfield
- ludicrous truly
ludicrous, when was the last time the site where they proposed to put the poly-clinic actually flooded?
No doubt those that wish to rip the heart and guts out of Dover will now be happy that yet another facility is being moved to
Whitfield, if this carries on they might as well bulldoze the town, pave it over and turn it into a lorry park. - Ross(buckinghamshire)
I'M in favour of a hospital full
stop.
And if Whitfield is the only option then we should go for it.
What we cant afford to do is continue argueing about whos got best idea, or done the most,
lets get a hospital for Dover!!!
its more important than
ego's - I am with Keith just put it anywhere all the time the talking is going on the less change of geting it,stop all the argueing and let it move forward. i still think we
are still looking at about 10years or more away . - Perhaps that attitude is one reason people are cautious! Let's get on with it, indeed, but this is a big
undertaking and needs to be done propely. That is: properly, not avoided altogether!!!! And not so risk-averse that the outside risk of flooding, which has never happened, and for which someone is paid shedloads of money to risk-reduce,
stops the project altogether!!! - The KCC-HOSC meeting tomorrow Friday, at which the Dover Hospital will be discussed, can be viewed live on the webcast on the County Council
website. This is scheduled for 12.10pm.
I was scheduled to give evidence but have been unable to get a lift. My submission has been distributed to the KCC Councillors as well as the EKHUFT and the PCT:
Dear Members of the
KCC-Scrutiny Committee
First, in 2008, through the then PPIF-PCT, I submitted a report to the KCC-HOSC on the plight of the people of Dover and District in trying to get the hospital facilities they were entitled to and spelled
out in the Government White Paper ‘Our Health, Our Care, Our Say.’
At the time the EKHT, as it then was, had systematically run down Dover’s Buckland Hospital and the PCT had come up with a half-baked idea, called the Dover
Project that failed to meet the needs of the people of Dover and District.
The case was heard on 09.05.2008 and reviewed on 05.09.2008.
Under the law, as it presently stands, the role of the:
Hospital Trusts, such as
the EKHUFT, is that of a service PROVIDER
The PCT is the CONTRACTOR on behalf of the patients in their area.
The two organisations are separate entities.
At the KCC-HOSC hearing of 09.05.2008 it was agreed that the PCT
would provide the people of Dover and District the services listed below. These are in line with the Government White Paper ‘Our Health, Our Care, Our Say’.
During the summer of 2008 the PCT, as Commissioning Agents, made
available £20m for the provision of these services.
Further, at the KCC-HOSC of May 2008 a deadline for the decision as to where the provision of a facility should be sited was set at September 2008.
Ignoring the OJEU
ruling that contracts over £100,000 have to be advertised throughout the EC. The PCT, in November 2008, signed a contract with the then EKHUT (now EKHUFT) for the provision of the services and a facility in which to house them.
On
1 April 2009 the Hospital Trust achieved Foundation status that enabled them, amongst other things, to make financial decisions on their own behalf and raise money accordingly without going through the PCT.
During the summer of
2009 the Environmental Agency announced that due to the combined problems of an outdated and inadequate sewerage system in Dover plus the impact of global warming, that the preferred site was unsuitable at the present without major
upgrading of infrastructure. Adding that these modifications could be fast tracked.
It is now 24.10.2009 and the EKHUFT has:
5. Merely undertaken cosmetic upgrading of the former Buckland Hospital site – the rest remains in a
dangerous state of dereliction.
6. Stated that the Buckland Hospital site is not fit for purpose. This reiterated many times previously.
7. Condemned all other proposed sites as not being fit for purpose.
8. Used the £20m
contracted to provide a facility and services in Dover, in line with those listed below, for other purposes.
Thus the PCT have not followed OJEU rulings with regards to the contract, which is, I believe, unlawful. Second, the EKHUFT
are deliberately failing in delivery of the contract using the £20m for other purposes.
Appendix
On 9 May 2008 at the KCC-HOSC hearing, the case for a Community Hospital for Dover was won; the services (detailed at the KCC-HOSC
5th September 2008) included:
Comprehensive range of outpatient clinics.
Full range of diagnostic services
Regular routine clinics for Phlebotomy, Chemotherapy, Physiotherapy, Hearing Tests, Renal Dialysis, Podiatry and
Orthopaedics.
Day Surgery Unit.
Inpatient beds for observation … for post day surgery when problems arise … and for minor accidents etc.
Intermediate beds, for patients returning to Dover after acute hospital care.
Birthing
Unit with all the facilities that Buckland has at the moment plus medical back-up.
Specialist children’s facilities similar to the present Carousel Unit plus inpatient beds.
Decent size MIU, open at least 15 hours a day, 7 days a
week including bank holidays.
Supportive Care in relation to Mental health, Sexual health, Counselling etc.
Long Term disability services on our own door-step
End of Life facility – that is, we would be able to die near to our
homes and loved ones rather than 20+ miles away.
- Can I suggest that we all tune in? One thing that has always puzzled me: if the PCT is the
contractor, and Trust the providers, where is the competition? Isn't it a faux competition if the field is so reduced? Used to be called Token Tendering a few years back!! - BERN
I'v done a little research as it appears there are some misinformed posts on the forum.
Having looked into this issue can I advise on the flooding issue alone, that the maison Dieu favoured site was
officially recorded as flooding in 2003 and 3 times in 2007, and known to have flooded every other year.
Thought this should be known to the posters. - Thanks Ken - I do not remember any of those floods!!!
- To me a flood is when you get several feet of water, cars buried, hundreds of people stuck upstairs.... Dover
has 'flooded' occasionally to a few inches..... - Sorry keith - I meant Keith not Ken - senior moment collided with a blonde
moment!!! - we seem to be getting nowhere fast with this hospital business.
like pw, my idea of a flood is something where an ark is needed or fireman get people off of
the roofs of their houses.
forum members paul w and ben bano were at the meeting, perhaps they could give us their slant on things.
our honourable member was in attendance too. - Howard, regret I was not there. But DDC were well represented.
My view is straightforward. Mid town is the best site for the type of facility on offer. If not, then
the Buckland Mill site.
But primarily the issue is one of timing. SWS have the project in their programme. KCC have money to work up the programme and then need to commit for their element of remediatiion.
Do the PCT and
Hospital Trust have the bottle to face down a vociferous minority and the EA.
The Environment Agency are covering their backs. They do it on virtually every planning application where their model shows a risk.
As others
have described the flooding issue, I won't repeat it,other than to say that the people of that area deserve a solution, sooner, whether or not the health quangos bottle the issue.
The worst solution is the current location
revisited.
Watty - thanks for info paul, would agree on the two preferred sites.
another set of initials though, who are SWS?
can the
environment agency stop the project though?
surely the hospital trust and the pct can override any objections that come from a minority group. - Howard, SWS
is Southern Water.
EA have no planning powers but can attempt to push a decision to the Secretary of State for decision i.e. delay further.
Watty - We
(the Labour Group) are in full agreement with Paul that the hospital should be in town,if the reason why we are not getting a hospital in the Town Centre is because of flooding,where does that leave DTIZ and the regeneration,Buckland
Mill site is next to the River Dour which is one of the reasons Maison Dieu Floods,The Old Post Office site at Charlton Green floods as well.
Surely there are ways around this flooding as it happens once in a blue moon and technology
can get round it,It seems as if Paul Watkins and Charlie are at logger heads over this with Reg Hansell and a few others like David Hannent wanting Whitfield.One last thought when it snows in Dover Whitfield is the first area with Capel
that gets cut off,just when you need a hospital in the Town you won't be able to get to Whitfield! - I think you are missing a point and that is "YeS you can build on ground where
is a flood risk,but the ex cost of doing it would would run into well over the 1million mark.
I have done years of work on ground like that.one was Chatham,and even the Dover docks puting in new births.the cost and time would take the
new Hos/well over the top.Please think about that. - As we all know there has been flooding around that area even up to last year so there is a real risk.
They were
told all this well before they got this far down the lane.It can not go there and that is the end of the matter.
I have also done work at the old paper mill site for the water company,is this a safe site? I think not.... - There was recently a planning application for an 80 bed residential home, granted for Buckland Paper Mill area.
Any flood-risk in mid-town can be engineered out by those
responsible, given the will and the funding.
Roger - Roger,The kind of funding we are looking at is not there it is just to much.This time I am not talking
out of the top of my head.As I have said the flood risk is there and indeed we have seen flooding in the roads around that part of the town within the last few years .there is no more to add they will not put it there and righty to.By
all of you still trying is helping to hold the project up.So just agree where they would like to put it and then we can hope it moves ahead. - Thanks Vic - do you mean
then, that other times you admit that you have been talking out of the top of your head ?
There may have been localised flooding, but I didn't think there had been anything other than an inch or two - O.K. three or four.
I
maintain that the mid-town area should have the flood-risk remediation measures carried out - do we want central/mid-town Dover to stay the same as it is now - for ever ?
Roger - much easier to find a reason not to do something, than the other way around.
- Ain't it the truth, Howard. No decision=no risk for some people. I think it is the other way around!
- Roger sorry old mate but you are way out on this one.All I was
meaning that I do know alot about Flooding and the work which must be carred out to stop it.
First it was not 3or 4ins as you said,wehave seen basements flooded and ground room flats just the sam as in Folkstone Rd ,with so of the
public moving out because of it.
I do not admit to what you have put.
I some times wine you all up ,but not on this one. - FFS - there will be no basements
in a new build hospital, and we pay shedloads of money to the EA to take steps to minimise the risks. We are not talking about old Victoriac buildings not built for the flooding risk - we are talking about new builds that can
accommodate risk reduction strategies.. - Sorry Bern again like roger your are way out on the is one,it is not about any kind of building you put there,it is all about what is
under the ground and the cost of puting it right to build on. - Vic - they build tunnels under the sea, tower blocks a kilometre high and viaducts 100ft of feet
over ravines.... a few concrete piles down through some gravels shouldn't be enough to stop them building in Dover !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - BERN/PW /ROGER/OTHERS
Just
on the hospital and question of flooding, its my understanding this area flooded by a few feet, not inches and was reported to do so on DDC's own web site!!!!!!
But even taking posters views even if the fllod were to be a few
inches, this would be excrement running close by, would we realy want a hospital built with this?
I don't have a favoured site, what I do want is money well spent, no ones sorted this prob as yet.
It's no good building
and the place floods.
- I know we are talking about underground flood-plain water Vic. I have said many times, these problems can be engineered out, it just depends on
what the cost is going to be.
Pipes, pumps, gullies and drains and some nounce.
It seems to me that it can be resolved, but those responsible for resolving it - the EA and Southern Water don't want to spend the money to
resolve it.
It cannot be allowed to kill - stone dead, any future development for Dover.
Roger - hear Hear. It's the need for that Can Do spirit again,
isn't it. We need more of that. - Roger that is just that they do not have that kind of cash.Just off the top of my head and looking at the surrounding area to would have to
put down no less then 200+piles, you only have to look at what D,H.B. MUST DO along the front next year,as some of you know because you came down and saw me,I with others were repairing and welding up the old piles because of the big
hole,and the cost of just doing that was very high,now they have two replace them and more as well and the cost of that over 2million pounds and there will be more cost add to that as they move onI have beening puting down piles and
repairing them for over 40years.I had my own lads doing the piling on some of the births for the ships with Nuttulls doing and again at the dock yards at Chatham so I do know what I am talking about.Yes anything can be done at a cost but
what a cost,best move on to a new safe site. - If they came to you and said we must add £100 to your councl tax next year to pay for it,what would we all be saying
about it then.Again it is down to cost and more cost.I do not think I can add anymore to this debate. - So if it is not safe to build a poly-clinic, why is it safe
to build a supermarket and hotel a couple of hundred yards further down the road?
Or don't they matter as they are commercial ventures?
Why is any building work allowed in Dover?
- Ah! now, last night is over and I'm still in one piece! Your chilling Halloween story put the fear of God in me PaulB lol! Maybe Father McGonagle was looking after us from a higher
place. - Ross you have a very good point there,when they got that very old boat out of the ground did you see how much water was in the hole and they had to
pile around that hole to keep the sides from falling inwards,Some pileing will have to be done but we are looking at a very big site and lots more funding about for that one.
but still avery good point thank you.Also with pileing is
the noise that goes with it and with it being in the town centre you would hear it for a mile away banging all away all day and all the mud piling is a very big job making alot of mess aswell not good for a Town centre even with wheel
wash the big lorrys would make alot of mess,along that and other roads.
I have some very good prints of me on a very big piling site,I will try and get some one to put them on this forum for you seeagain do not look at me but what is
going on around me and all the mess and big cranes it takes to put them down. - MESSAGE FOR VIC MATCHAM
I need to ring you please can you E Mail me your phone
number to;
keith.sansum@9992009.live.co.uk
ta - vic is in the phone book keith.
- MESSAGE TWO
Sorry vic cocked up E Mail address its
keith9992009@live.co.uk - I too enjoyed your Halloween story PaulB, it's a shame that Father McGonagle is no longer with us, could it have been the Headless Drummer Boy of Dover Castle steering the hearse on its
terrible revengeful deed? The truth may never be known. - vic has returned to fold all been contacted thankyou
- Sorry but just going back to the Hos/site in the town centre, we must also look at the pumping of water out,you would need pumps working with Gen/sets 24/7.
Also with piling
you get alot of under ground Vibrations and with all the old houses in and around that site unless they have been underpin which most would not have had done the vibrations could easy put them all at risk of coming down.
I have also
worked on the D.D.C. site puting up steel etc years ago up at whitfild must tell you that the ground up that way is alot better,and they might even get away without any piling at all.you can get your lorrys away with out going around the
town they all would go up the A2. so all around a much better site.And the cost would be much lower and also more parking and more room to bulid on. - Just to add
what you are seeing at this time most of it has to be redone with piling nothing stops the sea over the years not even pils look at the repairs we done along there last year ,a big hole just came in one hour just very lucky that done of
the public was walking over that part at that time. - Sorry about that it should read none of the public not done of the public.I am trying not to look at the keys
as I print it is very hard to do. - that is a great new picture, i assume that was taken today.
i wonder what the chap in the picture is pointing at?
maybe we could have a caption competition?
i will start the ball rolling "my name is bobby goldfield, i command thee to go back". - Howard yes it was
taken today...have just added the editorial now at the right hand side of shot. Yes there is a man there pointing, well spotted as its a small image. The rain was driving at the time and it looks like he is worried about his
Renault.
For the life of me cant think of a caption at the moment ...but will get back to it later. Can anyone think of another caption? - ok another cheap
one paul.
"i am from the environment agency, cannot see any problem building a hospital there" - lol!!
"Oh No! my Renault's on a flood plain!!
" - How about:
'DOCK ROCK'S SMOKE MACHINE GOES INTO OVERDRIVE'
or
'FRUSTRATED UK SMOKERS FIND THAT THE ONLY PLACE THEY CAN LIGHT-UP IS ON THE SEA-
WALL' - Love it! Made me laugh out loud!
- CAPTION
Bloke saying
either
1; Told you I could walk on water, but to cold today lol
or
2 NOW i see why its so nice to be by the sea lol - Ah sorry chaps had to take the picture down to make way for the latest missive on the Hospital, but we will do some more caption ideas soon as its always a popular idea. Am grateful to Reg Hansell for sending in the information
above as it is vital to hear all sides of the Hospital argument in the interest of fairness.
Small tech note, always worthwhile hitting your F5 key on keyboard to keep yourself up with the latest editorial, some computers are not
always set up to automatically display the latest. - I'd image that the "Talks with Bowling club members revealed that it flooded 3 times in 2007", 1mm of water
would be a flood for a bowling club !! - thanks for that doug.
just a small point before i reread it, whitfield is described as a popular choice for many.
i do not
see this, surely the main centre of population would be the peoples choice?
the transport links from the villages to whitfield are not good, they are probably better to dover town in most cases.
what guarantees do we have that
if either of the two sites you have mentioned are put forward that the environment agency would not put a spoke in them too? - Question is, why is an 'outsider'
campaigning for a site that is out of town and nearer to Shepherdswell where they live ? - I have always expressed the opinion that the hospital should be sited in Dover Town Centre.It has better transport links by both rail and bus from the outlaying villages.It
will regenerate the town as workers use local cafes,sandwich bars,chippies,pubs and restaurants for having lunch.The newsagents for papers and greeting cards,shops for fruit biscuit fruit juices to take in as gifts I could go on the last
is endless.This is probably Dovers very last chance to rejuvenate the town centre,increase the footfall andhelp our struggling businesses.
Just because an inch of rain fell on the bowling green doesn't constitute a flood and if
it does how come the bowling club are not buggering off to Shitfield in search of new greens.
Please PW,Taffy Prosser and Charlieboy do everything in your power to ensure that Dover is the site for the new hospital and not
Hansellville!! - Marek the real problem there though with the names you mention is that nobody is in agreement as to the best step forward. For example Paul Watkins and
Charlie Elphicke have one of those traditional Conservative splits on the idea. Leader of the Council Paul W wants the hospital in the centre of town and is, as I understand it anyway, approx aligned with the ideas Lorraine Sencicle is
putting forward. Conservative Parliamentary Candidate Charlie Elphicke on the other hand is aligned with the Reg Hansell proposal, as you can kind of guess with that picture showing at the top of this page.
Im sure though Reg
Hansell's proposals have nothing to do with the fact that its nearer to Shepherdswell to be fair.
As for Gwyn...we havent heard from Gwyn as of yet so Im not sure which idea Gwyn prefers.
So to sum up...at the moment the
politicians and leading campaigners are miles apart on this. - I am completely at one with Marek on this.
I think some one should bang some heads together
on this - particularly the EA and Southern Water, to engineer-out the problems of the flood risk.
Roger
- Well, if I remember right, Charlie Elphicke
was suggesting a banging together of heads. As this seems to be a popular solution should we line up to take turns? - It's got to be in Dover, for everyone's sake and there
are plenty of suitable sites available for re-development.
We can all save petrol and the environment by not having to trek to KCH and WHH time and again.
Do hope sense prevails. - I have told you why that site will not be used as a Hospital,yet you still keep on about it,sorry but the more you all keep that up,all you are doing is
holding it up it can not go there unless there is alot more funding inplace,going to Whitfield iS BETTER an not having a new hospital. So again just let them put it there.They have not come on here and said it but I have had a phone call
saying that they agree with what I have wrote.You can not please all,i would like to see it in the town but the cost and time it would all take is to much.Move on. - victor
peope are entitled to hold opinions differing from your own.
because you say something does not mean it is true.
who is
the mystery person that is against having the hospital in town? - That person is not a mystery but it was a call to me on a one to one,they may not wish to come on
the forum,I do not know I did not aske them.Also Howard you are right about holding differing opinions but wrong in saying that whai I have said is not true,Whay i have said about the ground is dead right and true.But moving on just say
they did put it there,what about all the parking,where would they all park most of the ground on that site would be the building and parking for all the ones that work there it is a very small site with not the room it would need.The
Mill site might be all right it is bigger but that has gone anyway for houseing.
But take it from me after 45years of being on building sites and sites that need piling E,T,C,Ido know what I am talking about.Look up piles in
theDictioary,"Pointed stake or post,heavybeam driven verticallyinto bed or river or SOFTGROUND as Support for bridge or BUILDINGS and that site would need over 100 of them. I rest MY case - Again sorry about the wording but geting better.I am not looking at the keys."WHAY should read What and whai should be again what.
- In that case Vic, how comes there is a massive ex telphone exchange, several South Kent College buildings, several shops, and multi-story carpark all adjacent to the river already
?? - P.w. I do not know I am telling you with what I have been told it is unsafe to build on that site.
they would have to do tests etc but insome cases you can have unsafe
softground not fit to build on without a river.i am sorry I do not know what is under the ground there. But we have seen some bad flooding there and homes have had to be pump out, The buldings you are on about mainly the College and the
exchange might have had some piling done before they were build.I was in Dover at that time but I do not know if there was or not,but again you have a very good point,well done for telling me.The ground might be OK but I do not think
so,and if it is please tell me about all the parking which would be needed if they got the go ahead. - Well it seems "here we go again" with
the Hansell Campaign.
The Town Centre has to be best for Dover and its regeneration needs as identified by DDC.
The question of flooding has been posed by Mr Hansell as a smokescreen and the EA have not helped. As I posted
recently the "downstream" danger of flooding is caused by the failure of the EA to keep upstream ponds from silting. These ponds were used for the various working mills and industry. As a consequence at heavy rainfall the water is
unable to collect in these "upstream" ponds.
The town centre site offers better public transport (try getting from Aycliffe to Whitfield) as well as close proximity to the railway station.
In a nutshell was Whitfield only
suggested as it is close proximity to Shepherdswell ???
I agree with Marek also as PW says there are substantial buildings on the banks of the Dour.
Correct building design would overcome any flood risks ( How do you think
Holland copes).
A further thought is if SK College is likely to close in the future there is already a building that could possibly be adapted for any future hospital expansion.
On the otherhand with Dover FC doing so well
with Andy at the helm will they be in the Premiership in 2015 !!!. If so a new 40,000 seater stadium in Whitfield ( they want more peole in Whitfield) release space at Crabble for hospital away from the river.
- what a good common sense post post there.
the regeneration of the town is vital, the hospital is part of it.
interesting thought about south kent
college.
would save a fortune too. - I have now been send a email,and it is telling me I was right about the flooding not only of this site but also the
one at the old paper mill.and I was also right on the parking of cars etc.
I am now going to post part of that email it is to long to post all of it +Paul knows of this email to.
(1}The Dover Council scrutiny were not informed
that the Maison Dieu was a high risk flood plain.
It goes on to say that the Maison Dieu site was on the busiest one way traffic road in Dover,and we all know that is true.
(2)That the Maison Dieu site was a very conjested
location.
(3)The said site is also land locked which would not allow future necessary expansion.
(4)The site does not have on site parking which will be unacceptably for patients.
(5)The site would not provide easy
access for the people of the district Towns and villages.
And as we all now know it is on a very highrisk flood plain.
This email goes on to say about the very high cost of the porject not only on the Maison Dieu road but
also the paper mill site again it is on a flood plain.
I did tell you this two days ago that i had worked for the water company on the mill site with the same risk as the Maison Dieu site.
Last part of the
email.
Whitfield is on high ground and dry and buses every 15mins and that is going down to evey 10mins ,also that site would be easy available to the District residents.
This Hos/ is not just for the public of Dover but also for
the District as well parking would also be good to.
And one last point on this is the added pollution
of the air with 100s of more cars ,Dover to have a air pollution high risk one of the very highest in the U.K. and it is all
around the town not just the docks,they found the same high pollution just where this site is.Now I did not know of the email till 30mins ago but I did try and tell you all this over the last two days and that is true,the email does not
say about the air pollution I have added that on but again true.I think this does tell you that I do not like some think talk alot of rubbish. - With the greatest
possible respect, and without subterfuge or mystery callers, much of that is B*****ks. Forgive me. - Bern.i have had the email send to me the same email went to paul it is his
forum I can not just go ahead and put out names with out them saying it is O.k. If that person comes on and puts his or her name to it good. They have helped me by puting across what I have been saying over the last two days, and I thank
them for doing just that, the rest is out of my hands. - sorry vic, but this all sounds like one of those "i know a bloke who drinks in the same pub as the lodger
of my great aunt, he reckons that a bloke who is a vet and treats the queens corgis knows the second cousin of my butcher who knows another bloke in the pub and confirms that gordon brown has hired a hitman to take out barry williams for
all the things that he has said about him.
ok, i believe you. - Yes Vic all DDC councillors have received an Email from Mr Hansell
- thanks for that clarification susan, would be nice if he posted directly on here.
people here are getting concerned that the whole hospital fiasco is just a point
scoring exercise between individuals. - Sue your email is not the same one sorry.
- Vic you
really are a broken record aren't you. You are indeed very passionate, you claim to care about Dover, yet constantly slam the town, the efforts of the council and others, whilst offering little or nothing as an alternative and you
wonder why you do not get elected.
Frankly a town centre site is the logical site for this facility. Yes it may need piling but this is nothing to do with the risk of flooding and more to do with the amount of gravel in the
bottom of the valley. As other posters have pointed out proper river maintenance by the EA and renewal/repair of the storm drains would go an long way to preventing flooding in the town. Further not everyone drives and a town centre
site is significantly more accessible than Whitfield; whilst parking directly at the site may be a minor issue there is ample parking in Dover town centre (Charlton Green, Charlton Centre multi-storey, the new Asda). - Putting Vic to one side, as I think we should in this issue or we are in danger of sinking rapidly into a mudflat of idiocy and distraction, can we please take immediate steps to have
a hospital in Dover? There are going to be objections, pros and cons to any site. Bottom line: where is it most needed, most convenient, and most accesible. My money is on Town Centre for all the reasons already stated ad nauseum. Now -
please can we have some action? Any news from Gwyn Prosser? - Part of my take on this is that the EA are responsible for the river and flood-risk and part of that responsibility,
is to make sure that it doesn't flood or burst its banks; this could have been done by de-silting the river properly - more than just planting weeds along Barton Path.
I'm sure there are many areas of the river that could be dredged
or de-silted, that would greatly alleviate the problems of flooding.
There is to be a DDC Scrutiny meeting this evening, starting at 6pm where the two main topics for discussion are the Hospital and the (Dover) Street-
Scene.
There is nothing "in the Pink" for this meeting, so if any one wants to attend, come and find out and stop listening to rumours - it is open to the public.
I understand that all (District) Councillors have had two
letters from Reg. Hansell
Roger - I am posting this to all DDC Councillors.
Roger states there is a DDC Scrutiny meeting this evening and would
specifically remind Councillors that Dover Town is in need of regeneration.
The Town Centre site for the hospital would assist in this and has already done so as it is most likely that Morrisons have only committed to Dover as
part of their commercial justification would undoubtably have been that the hospital would be less than 5 minutes walk from their store.
Any failure to have the hospital in Dover Town will be the death-knell of any future town
development and to vote otherwise would be irresponsible as the drainage problem can be resolved if DDC keep pressure on the EA/Southern Water.
Many District Councillors probably never visit Dover as they reside in Deal/Walmer and
other outlying areas and therefore are oblivious of the plight of the town.
The DDC has already supported the Town Centre site and this must be fought for with unity of Councillors.
Re the Dover Street Scene item that Roger
mentions. I have already made the point that whilst the council provide a service the rubbish that deposits after cleaning is a public order matter and the police should enforce on the spot fines for litter offences as well as dog
wardens being more active with dog fouling. The derelict buildings need to be forced under Section 215 to repair and become more presentable.
- I too will be there tonight
Pat and Im sure between us all we will have a lively debate .Jan Tranter ,Jim Hood both Dover Councillors are on that committee.
There are two very good sites near to the Maison Diue Community Health Project proposal which
can be made into car parks.This was always part of the bigger picture .It takes time and lots of conversations to get the end result . - Sorry to be dense - where is the
meeting at 6pm this evening? - up at the fort in whitfield bern.
ddc thus far have backed the town centre site, i think they will continue to do so. - Sue
I am glad that there will be some Dover voices.
To-night is Friends of Dover castle AGM and as Chair I shall have to attend but as soon as over I shall
wing my way to "Whitfield Castle".
- I will be there to.I look forward to meeting up with some of you.But I am still saying the the town site is not the place for the
Hospital,we must also think about the public that do not live in Dover. - Sue has just told me the public can not take part only sit there .
- we should have a hospital for dover its not right they closed buckland
- vic
i am guessing that you will have a
great deal of trouble sitting quietly at this meeting. - Yes you are right Kah,you have not used alot of words and we all pick up on that well done.
All all feel
like you do.
But do not agree where it should go
I feel that the Town centre is not the place for it,but as you put it so well Dover should have a hospital, and in the end of the day I will be please just to see it anywhere. - Howard The old Vic Matcham would have got up anyway . It would not be the first that I have been told to sit down, When I got up years ago over poll tax they put me
out about 6 of them.
So what did I do I went home and put on my suit and went back up they did not stop me on the door because they did not think it was me because of the way I was dress, when I got in again I got up and told them
what i was thinking about the poll tax, this time they left the room, till I went.
But I do not think i will be geting up this time,or will I. - that did make
me smile vic, would take a lot to stop you expounding your viewpoint.
the description of your exit reminded me of a scene years ago in "rising damp", where rigsby is being frogmarched out of an exclusive
establishment.
the cry went up "i have been thrown out of better places than this".
- I was too late home from work to attend, sadly. I would be
grateful for info about what happened, though. - i am more interested in whether newsroom south east or meridian will have pictures of vic being thrown onto the pavement, than the
actual debate. - A real polaroid moment, there.
- Thank you for that but I was a good boy.
Well there
is not much more to tell you then what you know,still no agreement about the Dover Town centre site or any of the other sites, only to say they are still looking and all 3 of them (1) The Town Center one. this is the site that the D.D.C.
would like.
(2)The Paper mill site nothing was said about this one only the fact it is one of the 3.
And the last one which we all know is Whitfield.
They did say that also this site if it was going to be the one first
would have to get planning to go there, but that site has been ear mark for other buildings which is the same as the mill site,.
But what was all agreement with was that if a site is not picked soon then Dover could miss out on any
funding for the Hospital and could be left with what it has today.
There is a time limit of about 12weeks left for all the of them to come to agreement.As I pointed out the public could not talk. And I would not had much to add to the
meeting if I had done. So again it is down to wait and see but time is runing out, and i did point that out to this forum some time ago.
But there was no vote taken on anything, but reading in beween the lines I think all the
cllrs or most of them went for the town site.
Roger or Sue will add or agree or disagree with my post when they get home,i did not stay to the end, but at this time my old legs are playing up and I have get up and walk
around. - Well, I never thought I would come on this forum saying I fully support the view of Vic Matcham, but on the hospital issue i do !!!!
So where do
we go from here??
We need first to decide do we realy want a hospital for the Dover District?
If so, then as charlie boy has said we need to stop the squabbling and get down to getting results.
It is clear from Mr
Hansells posting that the town centre site is not an option because of the risk of serious flooding, now we can argue till the cows come home about it, but charlie boy/Reg and the E. Agency won't support it, so you realy are up against
it.
My real fear here is, the clock is ticking, and rather than come together with a credible solution, all the view points will go on being argued, and Dover will end up without a hospital.
This issue is to important to
play party politics with, and I don't care which party/individual achieves it, but achieve it must!!!!
So come along, lets move on, and campaign for a site we know will get nearly 100% support.
I have to say the
comment by PW Deal is slightly offensive on mr hansell, who has given the info to the forum in good heart.
Knowing Mr Hansell I do know that he cares passionatly for a hospital, but also wants to take everyone with him, and the
insult that he may be supporting Whitfield because of where he lives is just that an insult.
I do hope we can move this debate on, and lot them get away with what Dover deserves - Keith the EA has almost no more power than the ordinary man in the street to prevent a planning application, all they can do is ask the Local Govt Minister to conduct a planning enquiry.
As I and others have pointed out the flooding risk can be significantly reduced by the EA doing there job at maintaining the river properly and DDC/KCC fixing the storm drains. Further the re are a number of ways that the building itself
could be constructed to minimise/eliminate flood risks.
As Sue has said there are a number of sites over and above those I mentioned that can be used/made available for parking so another objection from Mr Hansell can be
eliminated.
Finally, by working with Stagecoach the EKHT & DDC can ensure that there are decent transport links from the outlying villages into Dover, something they would have to do for Mr Hansell's preference
anyway. - ROSS
Don't think you have clearly got mr hansells/charlie boys message,
If sides cannot come together and at the same time recognise the problems i can see
Dover again losing out altogether. - The problem there though Keef is that it doesnt appear to be what people want overall. Posts here suggest that people
want it in town. Not only would they get a hospital on their doorstep but it would regenerate inner Dover . I know the item shown previously from Doug Tutton supported by Reg Hansell indicates strongly that the regeneration issue is a
seperate issue but perhaps it isnt.
These features are now in All Recent Features if anyone needs to refer to them, but we have to cover a new item now in the editorial but please feel free to continue to chat re hospital or any
topic. - A pretty good analysis was given by DDC Chief Engineer Tim Ingleton about the hospital and it is as I have said on here many times; there are three
people/bodies who need to get their heads together and accept responsibility:
February is the deadline, so not long to go.
1) KCC Highways, to have a regular inspection of all their drain gulleys, so when it rains, the water
can flow away quickly and not build up over the roads and paths etc.
Could you believe or accept that we couldn't have a hospital here because the drains weren't cleared out often enough ?
2) Southern Water Services already
know that the drainage system in Dover needs urgent attention and has been on their schedule to be done and will be done in the near future.
Could you believe or accept that we couldn't have a hospital here because Southern Water
didn't make a higher priority of our drain system ?
3) The Environment Agency needs to accept responsibility for their side too, but either de-silting/dredging the river in the worst parts - ie where the river has burst its
banks in the recent past and/or raising the river banks.
Could you believe or accept that we couldn't have a hospital here because the Environment Agency wouldn't take their responsibility seriously enough ?
No, nor could
I.
KCC have pledged a fairly large pot of money too, so making a quick decision is essential.
I'm not talking about other sites as it is still the preferred site for DDC and my personal preferred
site.
Roger - Paulb
I hear what you say, so looks like it won't come together and AGAIN Dover will lose out.
Still given my view as has
others
don't want to be the one in months to come to remind you i told you so, i hope im proved wrong
but looking at things as they are we may lose out altogether - Keith - you seem to be reading a different forum before you reply.
There is no room for personal issues here - Dover needs a hospital, and the squabbling and recalcitrant bodies necessary to this need to get over
themselves and do what they are paid by us to do. I would like to know what legal sanctions we, the public who pay these people, have if they do not deliver what they are paid to deliver. I am happy to take on Southern Water and the EA
if they fail their paymasters. What do Gwyn and Charlie think? - Bern we did have editorial from Charlie Elphicke on the frontpage here last week(now in All Recent Features).
Charlie appears to be aligning himself with RegH and therefore against the town centre site, although I will say this, he at least appears to be flexible. He has a different view than Paul Watkins and the DDC who favour the town centre
location. Of course they are all members here and can correct me if Im wrong. Reg/Charlie in the out of town camp, PaulW and Lorraine S and the rest of the people in the Town Centre Camp. That appears to be the breakdown of
opinion.
Ive had the latest leaflet from Gwyn in through the post as Im sure have most households, he does not refer to the hospital at all in this leaflet, although it may have been up in the air at the time of printing. Im not
sure myself where Gwyn is on this...which camp sort of thing, but no doubt he would want a hospital for Dover.
Some people like Keef below are getting so frustrated now that they will take any option for fear of the thing not
getting built at all. - there seems an incredible number of agencies involved in that exercise. just dover pride that seems to be mssing.
full credit to
everyone for pulling in the same direction.
i wonder what the chances are of getting them together again and sorting a hospital for us.
- Once
people agree the direction Howard, as in this lifeboat exercise, a lot can be accomplished. The problem re the hospital is that no one agrees on which direction to take. It could be under construction by now if this agreement could have
been reached as our original allocation of the £20million would have been ours. The various factions will all click into place once agreement is reached.
But as Charlie Elphicke said last week...with so many people involved in the
decision process its a wonder anything ever gets done.
By the way thats a cracking shot in from Martin Collins at the top of the page. The clarity is very good...clearly lots of pixels in action. Captures the gloomy day to
perfection. Many thanks to Martin. - they are great pictures, was martin involved with the exercise or just a very good photographer?
- Howard yes Martin is one of the RNLI teamsters and one of the press officers, always good to hear from him. I think we all admire greatly the work they do, so delighted with
the coverage.
- PAULB/BERN
You are both correct that Dover needs a hospital and Paul b is correct in the diffrent camps, and BERN i have no PERSONAL views
one way or the other.
My real concern is the dosh runs out in 2 years time, and if we all waste time argueing with each other and dont come yto a conclusion Dover will lose its hard fought for hospital.
I do honestly feel
that the campaign fotr a town centre site although a great idea i can see a lot of campaigns/time spent o this but nowt achieved.
I do hope I'm wrong
DOVER MUST GET THE HOSPITAL IT DESERVES - Keith
We shouldn't just take any old option but should fight our corner for a Dover hospital and not just accept whats on the table.It will be a decision that future generations
will have to live with.Its better to get it right now rather than lament in the future. - MAREK
Know where your coming from, but we would not be forgiven for argueing
about a site and then Dover not getting a hospital anywhere - still nothing from gwyn on this one, his newspaper column and election update said nothing
either.
a decision has to be made very shortly, i can see the money disappearing right nowthat money will not be around as long as 2 years.
my guess would be nearer 2 months if the authorities that hold the purse strings
are just squabbling and the MP is not seen to be involved in demanding the facility. - Howard Ive had some info through from Gwyn, just seen it this morning although
I beleive it came yesterday evening. Will get that up later on and have also had some further info through from Reg H so bear with me will get these up on frontpage in due course. Ive been inundated as you can imagine. But the debate is
widening anyway...everyone is involved, some more flexible than others.
If I just remember back for a moment to the way we all worked together on the prison situation, and united we were quite a force for good. We dont always
achieve that level of unification which is a pity...otherwise just imagine what we could achieve. - eagerly awaiting the two statements.
work together?
i sincerely hope so, the prison situation mobilised everybody, was great to see paul w and gwyn address the multitudes outside the town hall, both saying the same thing. - It will indeed be good to see evidence of partnership working. It is worth noting that two of the main networking sites (and I am becoming very aware of their value!!)
Twitter and Facebook are best used by Charlie Elphick. This is encouraging. - Keith - where did the two years come from ? 2 years for us to make a decision and get the location
agreed and we'll keep the funding for this amount of time - I don't think so.
As I put on my posting on Thursday morning (unless it's in invisible ink and disappears after five minutes), we were advised at the Scrutiny meeting
the previous evening, that we have until February (2010) - that's 3 months away.
Roger - Its good to have Gwyn's take on the situation now in the editorial
above. Makes for interesting reading and I myself learned a lot there from the easy digestible flow.
Many thanks to Gwyn for the input... - It is good to
hear from our MP at last on this matter. - Bern do you have an opinion on the content?
- Paul - I have emailed
you........... - interesting stuff, my problem with it is the lack of space at the buckland hospital site.
if it is upgraded, it will need a dedicated bus service from the
town centre, there will not be enough parking spaces for those arriving by car.
getting back to what gwyn says about ddc's technical officers confidence in the maison dieu site, i find it difficult to believe that they would
stick their necks out without being certain of what they are saying.
i wonder what our prospective mp, council leader and council leader of the opposition think? - Yes, PaulB, my opinion is
that it is good to hear from Mr Prosser about this. It will be good to hear, as Howard also indicates, from all the other people as well. This isn't a gripe or a complaint, but a statement of opinion - I expected to hear way before this
from the MP, and we have had considerable and helpful information from signifcant others. It will be good to see the evidence of partnership working we need as well. - Liz
Shutler from the NHS Trust told the health scrutiny meeting at KCC that funding would be there for two years. After this time the money will go on other projects, just as Stuart Bain told the stakeholders meeting previously.
The two
year timescale is less dire than things seemed when Mr Bain was speaking but it does not seem to be long enough to sort out the mid-town flood issues. Andrew Pearce, from the Environment Agency, said this could take up to five
years. - changin the subject i think we should have a multi complex cinema in dover
- many thanks for that factual
info kathy.
seems like all bad news though, if 2 years is given as a deadline then 2 years is the time the arguments will go on for.
sadly the environment agency seem determined to scupper anything planned for
dover.
surely with all the schemes that they get involved in, a hospital for a town without one, would be near the top of their priority list?
i shudder to think how long they would need for a non urgent
project.
the nhs trust have promised to hold the money for two years, i think that would be impossible, public money cannot be treated in that way.
it would be very easy after the next general election to use the money elsewhere in
lieu of a spending cut. - good idea kim, all we need to do now is to quadruple the population to make it viable.
- well well Roger i was right on the 2 years then
- Its Remembrance Sunday today and the
service at the Town Hall begins at 10.30. Hope to see a good turn out. Weather looking gloomy as I write but hopefully it wont be too bad at the time.
We will try to get a few good pictures of the event but if anyone gets a nice
shot of proceedings please send it in to
dover7@msn.com - Keith - it was Reg who told us it was till February 2010 and he had that from the horses mouth, but
I'm not sure which horse.
Roger - Just to mention at this point that I have had some further thoughts in from Reg H which I will get up shortly...always good
to hear from the frontline as it were. Scheduled after Remembrance Sunday coverage if all goes well.
Yes indeed thanks for that information input Kathy. Its very difficult trying to reach
clarity. - ROGER
Health chavs also said got 2 years as did MP why just blame mr hansell?
Anyway knowing mr hansell he wanted to see a hospital and
soon.
My own personal opinion is we need a site and soon cos i dont fink they will stick around fotr 2 years whilst the bickering goes on.
Im not bothered where it goes, but it must happen, I can see this being a situation
where no onre agrees and health bods goes away millionsd in pocket richer - Well Gywn has I believe sumarised why DOVER needs a hospital.
Facilities
have been run down at Buckland whilst places like Deal and Folkestone have seen a continued hospital service to its local community. I believe for some types of treatment (hearing tests etc) are dealt with at Folkestone or Deal as Dover
people have been refered to these locations rather than Buckland.
A Dover centre (either Mid-Town, Charlton Sorting Office site or Buckland) gives DOVER its replacement hospital.
From Gwyns latest Parliamentary Report I
note that Aylesham has a brand new Health Centre ??? (How much did this cost, it certainly looks an impressive building)
With whatever time scale is on it needs a united approach. If there is still the possibility of Mid-Town can
our MP put pressure on the EA ??
As it seems the EA have neglected their responsibilities there should be financial recourse for the business activities that will suffer for the failure of a mid-town site. Anyone on the forum who
is able to say how "ordinary folk" can have legal redress to the EA.
- I think it would be useful to understand what sanctions the taxpayer has when not provided with
promised services. I would be happy to take on some of the big boys like the EA, in partnership with others, if necessary. Hopefully, we can talk around it before that becomes a requirement. It would be good to use this as an opportunity
to demonstrate constructive partnership working............ - Keith, why did you put the comment "Health chavs also said got 2 years as did MP, why just blame mr hansell?
I have never mentioned "blaming" Reg Hansell, I just said that at a DDC Scrutiny Committee last week, Wendy got up and said she/they had been told by the "chavs" as you so eloquently put it, that it is
February.
Please don't twist my comments as you so often do.
Roger - ROGER
Was just saying, gave the info on the 2 years at a very early
stage. - Kathy, so the EA say that the mid-town flood issues could take up to five years, well, if so, that would really put a spanner in the works for sure. Its good to have
Gwyn's comments on board, made very interesting reading and certainly made things clearer to me. I too have always had a soft spot for our Dover Buckland Hospital having been an inpatient, an outpatient and a regular all round nuisance
over the last decade or so lol! I was there recently for an appointment with Saskia re her troublesome wisdom teeth and it was so awful to see it now looking like a ghost town hospital. A good friend of mine has recently been diagnosed
with kidney failure and is now receiving dialysis at Kent and Canterbury hospital. She is finding it difficult coming and going to and from Dover so they have now told her as I understand it that after the first initial two weeks she can
then attend Buckland. They must still be running the renal department there. Its clear that we most definitely need our hosptial here in Dover so lets hope common sense prevails so we can get on with the building or rebuilding of our
much needed hospital wether it be our present buckland site, mid-town or ........ - ColetteB I managed to get a few words with Gwyn yesterday, prior to the
event beginning in earnest, and we were talking about his feature printed above. Although Gwyn fought long and hard to keep Buckland open as a fully functioning hospital, without, sad to say, success in the end, this whole story
nevertheless has a bitter but almost amusing irony that through a serious of oddball defaults, that hospital may just be saved in the end... but almost by accident. - The feature from MP Gwyn Prosser on the Hospital situation that was previously in the editorial above, and referred to below in a number of posts, is now saved in the All Recent Features
section. - Great photos - good to see Mike
Webb back at work after his operation. - Great pics, it's always a moving event, pleased to see Mike Webb about again.
Hope you are ok too Roger? - Don't forget tomorrow. Dedication of the new names on the War Memorial. Starts at 10.40.
- Thanks Buddy - no I
still have the gout in my right knee and cannot drive or walk without extreme pain.
Thanks for the reminder Terry about the dedication; if a miracle happens overnight, I will be there, but if it is like it is today, I won't
be. - for what it's worth roger, my sympathies go out to you, i know a gout sufferer, can be quite, unbearable the pain.
- Was nice to see so many turn out for Sundays service of Remembrance and to also see many
younger ones too.
Also hope that people will come to the Dedication tomorrow as some 22 more names are being added to the memorial, very much a part of Dover's history. - spot on jan, i am always impressed how many younger dovorians turn up to stand in the cold on a sunday in november.
would be nice if a large crowd turned out tomorrow. - Good pictures there, it is good to see the young and old alike turn out to pay their respects to the fallen. Soon the 'eleventh hour on the eleventh day of the eleventh
month' will be with us, may they rest in peace. - The dedication service at the War Memorial was excellent and well attended. Two observations though. It would have been
nice to stop the traffic for two minutes. Also, reading the names out was a bit "cold".
How much better it would have been to have said "Joseph George Bloggs" instead of just "J Bloggs". Much more personal, especially for the
relatives. - many have made that comment terry, why did a stagecoach bus pass?
normally all bus companies issue instructions to their drivers to pull over. - Must have a longer chat with Nigel's mum one day, she knew my mother and her sisters quite well. It was the King family from the Ropewalk.
- Looks like a lovely service and dedication, so sorry I couldn't be there.
Good to see that Maggie S.K. was there too, especially with her work on the DWMP.
Nigel and his Mum and
many others.
Well done DTC and DWMP.
Roger - wonderful pictures, especially the ones of the kids, they must have wondered what it was all
about.
nigels' mum looks well and cheery despite the cold and rain. - Fantastic to see the children, it reminds me of a visit I made a few years ago to the
Military Cemetary at Arnhem where the local Dutch Schools work in conjunction with the Wargraves Commission to help maintain the cemetary.
Talking to the Dutch children they were so appreciative of the sacrifice made to give them
freedom.
I was at work at the White Cliffs on both Sunday and Wednesday so missed both services although I was at the Cruiseterminal service on Saturday which was well attended.
It was good to see the complete halt of vehicles in
the docks on both Sunday and Wednesday.On Sunday a Norfolk Line vessel stopped its manouver for the two minutes. If a large ferry can respect the silence I am amazed that a Stagecoach driver can't do the same with a bus. - What wonderful photos especially lovely to see the children and Nigel’s lovely Mum.
- that little girl seventh
from the left in the top picture cracks me up.
what is that expression about?
maybe her mum and /or dad look in here and can explain. - Usually
Stagecoach drivers do stop .I was speaking to a driver yesterday and he had to park his bus for the silence.maybe if they are on route it is harder to stop.
Do the trains stop ??? - Welcome Andy. A different format here to the "other place"
- Sue,the trains do not stop,but we pull the
blinds down in the ticket office and announcements are made on the station. - The children were so well behaved, I felt sorry for them standing in the pouring rain but they were
amazing, singing away and paying due respect to the honoured fallen. Nigel's Mum Phyllis is indeed a very special lady and I'm pleased for her to at last see her brother Donald's name added to the memorial. A solemn day with the
weather to match the mood. - I stepped off at the War memorial site today and saw Michelle Cooper ex Dover Town Council and leading light on the Dover War
Memorial project to pick up the wreaths that were blown around the site and put them back.In most cases it was only the water keeping them down,talk about windy! - What about the
boy far right of bottom picture, just found his melted mars bar in his pocket lol - Great shot Paul - I was on the PoW pier as the Rodin struggled past
earlier ! - Thanks Scotchie...yes I see you got a nice shot on the thread in the Forum too- well done with that. The one above is rather grainy Im afraid as my old
Nikon is long in the tooth, but it still delivers if one doesnt ask too much of it. I was asking too much of it today.
Nice comments there too about the assorted Memorial pictures, like the one about the little chap discovering
the melted mars bar in his pocket. The spreads of Memorial pictures are now in the All Recent Features archive section if anyone wants to refer to them again. - yes
nice picture glad im not on that ferry today - looks like a scene from the "cruel sea".
i am surprised that they are still running in these conditions. - i didnt think they would but they are
- acording to bbc local news port of dover was closed for 5 hours
today. - Fantastic shot Paul
At the White Cliffs we watched her enter and quite a spectacular site.
Shortly after her entry the port closed. - Thanks Pat, have now added a second shot showing her to be rather close to the Harbour Wall in far from ideal conditions. It looked mighty dangerous from my position and perhaps
thats the reason the Port was closed immediately afterwards as you say.
You are right KAH...wouldnt wanted to have been onboard any ferry yesterday. - Yes
Paul it looked a bit scary for a few moments but the good seamanship of the Master ended with her coming through the breakwater entrance on as near as centre line you could get.
- I was on it at the time and it wasn't quite as bad as it looks. It had been sitting off the harbour for half an hour head into the wind and was quite stable. This lean was while
it was turning to head into port and it wasn't quite as close to the mole as the second picture makes out. I was standing outside on the blunt end at the time.
I felt I was quite lucky catching that one because if I'd missed it
I would have been sat outside the harbour for several hours instead, as they shut the port shortly after the Rodin berthed. - Wow! you were on it Phil. Gosh very interesting.
It looks like a very tough crossing although you are probably underplaying it a tad there. Thats probably because you are a tough veteran of a million crossings! lol! I think it would have finished off ould landlubbers like myself, who
would certainly have had a hard time clinging on to their breakfasts.
But yes as Pat said earlier...as he viewed it from the cliff tops, the Master did a great job bringing it in and it wasnt as close perhaps to the harbour wall
as suggested by the bottom photograph.
(These photos now removed but new feature coming up.)
It looks like we are having a return to rough weather again today monday, after a calmer sunday. So I wont be investing in a day
return Calais or Boulogne just for the moment. - paulb,weds/thursday/friday more strong winds forcast.its worth the hassle of going for a day trip on days like saterday,a little
tip have a nice fry up on the ferry closly followed by a couple of swift pints to settle you stomach. - lol!! Max thats the worst possible advice for yours
truly, Landlubber extraordinaire..a living hell. I grew up in latter young days with a healthy fear of the sea, having made that wild crossing from Holyhead to Dun Laoghaire numerous times, on those 'orrible old bone shaker vessels that
used to be on that route. The nightmare of the ould Princess Maud still lingers in the terrifying subconscious. Gawd did we see some storms over there. Its known for it.
In those days they didnt worry about customer care...they
just used to torture the customers for the shear hell of it. Mention facilities and everyone laughed!
Im still here but only just. Will watch from a safe distance if the weather is going to be bad. One of our oul colleagues on
here Jacqui, who gave up through frustration, used to make the Calais trip purposely in the bad weather, so she was a good sailor. But now I will be watching events unfurl from the concrete security of terra firma.
But good luck
to all those on the sea. - paulb,we have modern ferrys here in dover you would hardly notice it.the old bone shaker ferrys have all but gone.ps,here is a handy
tip,make sure its got lifeboats either side.lol. - PAULB
Nice to see the new caption with Labour continueing its fightback to continue as the
Government.
Getting on nicely,
nice photo of Gwyn and Paulw together.
Something I never understood when D ShAW(TORY) was the MP for Dover would never be seen in the same meeting as Gwyn.
They used to avoid each other
throughout the 4/5 years.
I recall D Shaw running off from a meeting because
1; he didn't want to answer any public questions
2; Gwyn was about to arrive.
Always found that strange, hope that was just a
one off thing
- stunning pics there,my favourite part of the tower is the chapel with the stained glass window.
good to see the dignitaries
from the capital enjoying what we have here.
- Excellent photos, I especially like the first one in the chapel, it’s wonderful.
- It was an interesting and very informative few hours at the Castle yesterday, historian Stephen Brindle was a wealth of information and certainly knows a lot about the Castle
through the ages.
Margaret Hodge is such a delightful woman and she certainly seemed to enjoy the tour of the Great Tower. The hospitality of the English Heritage staff was very welcoming and they were ready to answer any
questions raised. It is certainly a fabulous attraction for locals and tourists alike. - Thanks for the comments guys re the pictures, thanks again to my
oul legendary stalwart ColetteB for the pictorial help ! As ever she got some very good ones.
Yes Jeane/Howard just a little comment about the chapel shot. You have to turn the flash off to capture the solemn and tranquil
atmosphere in there, but as its quite dark its not too easy to get a good one that will reproduce. With low shutter speeds it worked but was lucky. Blasting it with flash would kill the atmosphere.
As Colette says...its really
worth a visit and spending some time, even before the cable car gets here !! - It's probably a bit too late for me to start sleeping upright as 'I've got the
Devil in me' lol! Very interesting with regard to the beds as I wondered about the same subject the last time I visited the Great Tower, thanks for the explanation.
Nice picture of the chapel, very difficult lighting, it takes a
professional to capture it just right. - i was up there at a preview evening before the final completion.
they made it clear then about flash
photography.
keeping the medieval atmosphere is vital to the enjoyment of the visit.
the tower is getting rave reviews. - Excellent photos Colette and a
great write-up Paul - well done both of you.
Looks great doesn't it.
Roger - One interesting thing, chatting to some of the pleasant marketing guys up
there at the Castle and todays high wind reminds me of the story, is that they aim to close the Castle when the wind gets above gale force 8. It has its own micro-climate up there which was apparent the other day. I thought they might
have been joking but I saw it first hand when I nearly got blown off my feet after leaving the event. Yet in recent storm terms it was one of the relatively milder days.
Although surrounded by battlement walls, which you would
think would block the wind out, but on the contrary no it doesnt work like that. It acts instead as a kind of funnel, much the same way as water rapids work when the river becomes narrowed, and can blow you off your tootsies! Not
entirely ideal for the customers but on the plus side it doesnt happen very often.
And we're back with the high winds today here in Dover generally.
Glad you are enjoying the coverage Roger. Its looking great up there
now...several millions worth of SeaChange government funds has gone into it, hence the visit from the Minister. - I agree the photography is good .I have not been
up to the castle for years None of those freebies for me .I have been told if you join the Friends of the Castle it is a lot cheaper however for the average Dover resident with a family it is still expensive.The Cable Car yes will come
but looking at recent weather how often will it operate ??What we need is a direct bus a service .I think you can catch the 13 that operates to Deal or there is the bus which goes via Guston but a direct link would work out a lot cheaper
.Perhaps our Transport guru could work nearer to grass roots and have meanigfull talks with Stagecoach .Im sure the average Dover family would find a link to the castle of benefit .
I dont mean to be a kill joy but I do wonder what
our Culture Secretary would have thought if taken for a ride on the 60 bus route .
Plenty of grass roots worK to be done .Still as a lone voice I will soldier on - Yes it
certainly is a danger up there in high winds.. when they were filming the Other Boleyn Girl we were barracaded inside the Keep for the best pary of the day with the wind ripping tiles from the roofs and pulling parts from the sets
!! - trust you to be negative susan.
why would our nations culture secretary be interested in our bus services?
for once, we have a brand new expensive addition to our local castle and dignitaries visiting us.
why
the negativity? - Howard ,you missed the point .Of course its good these MPS visit but sometimes thay need to see some of the downsides of our district .This is 2009
and wonderful as the Castle is I wonder how many visitrors visit the Town.I believe most coaches just drop them off and pick them up again .
The point of the 60 bus route have you tried it Howard .?Rubbish in front gardens ,filthy
curtains ,in some cases cardboard in the windows .People who look as if they have never worked ,young girls with babies who have gone straight from school into motherhood .This is part of Dover some never see or wish to .I sat next to a
lady the other day and she said I have never been in this area before and it was an eyeopener for her .
Not much culture in these parts
I see from my Council Agenda for next week a Motion is to be raised by A Labour
councillor
for an open debate on the state of Dover .The debate to be open to the public thats if he gets the Motion accepted . .
- my dear susan, we will have to
differ on this one, mrs hodge in her capacity as culture minister failed to bring along the elgin marbles and place them in the combe valley road. it could be suggested that one of the residents would half inch them the first
day.
we have had many ministers and shadow ministers visit our esteemed town and promise us many nice things like a dual carriageway on the a20, a hospital and various cuddly toy type things.
the fact of the matter is that
they are enjoying a day out of the office, leaving their assistants to field all the flak, and getting a great photo opportunity into the bargain.
quite frankly, i would do the same. - Well done Paul/Colette with the pictures and report.
As Chair of Friends of Dover Castle I am always delighted to see as much visual promotion of our castle. All we
now need is to get some of these increased numbers to our town to put some urgently needed spend into the local economy.
Sue says it is expesive. Join The Friends of Dover castle and enjoy unlimited visits at special rates (all
details on our website), also with the kind co-operation of English Heritage we have been able to offer members special tours when the Castle is closed to areas often not open to the public.
We also were able to arrange preview
visits of the Great Tower.
Sue sorry you were not invited, nor was I, but that is the way it sometimes works and I wont lose any sleep over it.
- Yes we are happy
to promote the good aspects of the town, the castle and so on, and of course now and again in general terms we can be critical of the town , in the hope of seeing some all round improvements. We are not a PR tool but we try to do fair
coverage. The ups and downs.
The term 'Freebie' is often bandied about with much un-justification so was surprised that Sue used the term there. This wasnt anything remotely like a 'freebie'. WE did get a cup of hot coffee
though after it was over, when we made it to the cafe through the howling bitter Gale Force 8. Hardly qualifying as much of a 'freebie'. It was exactly the same for the Minister herself. While having the coffee.. we even then didnt
miss an opportunity as we grouped PaulW, Gwyn, The Baroness, and The Minister into the photograph you see above(Now in the All Recent Features section- see menu). This photo has been requested by English Heritage. So the good message is
getting out.
Mrs Hodge came, had the extensive and probably a bit of a tiring long tour of the Keep and then was off ..from where she went to join fellow Labourites at their stall in Market Sq. I have a picture from there which I
will get up in a day or two. - And now for something completely different....
- Blimey
Paul Saskia has grown up...... - She certainly has, she was on the front page of YourDover last week and looks great - as she does above.
Congratluations to
Saskia and all the girls.
Roger - There were over 40 girls participating in the Miss European at the Burstin Hotel and they were all holed up there for the
week with visits to various places of interest around Kent and London. Last year it was held in Antwerp, Belgium. The girls all had a fabulous week held during the half term so no vital schooling missed.
Saskia had a ball and was
thrilled to win her Deputy Princess title.
She has grown up, will be 18 in February which must make me all of 43..... well I can dream! - great pictures
there.
i seem to remember our victor asking what he had to do to get on this page!!!!! - Yes good shots there from ColetteB and it isnt always that easy
getting them in the midst of the hurly burly of the event going on.
Lol! Yes Vic knows what to do now!! enter next year!.
But no seriously, Vic has often been featured on this frontpage but it is the Who's Who Page he
wants to get on. Next one up there will be Mike Webb. Have taken the pictures for that so have taken first step on that one.
Am looking forward to Vics next pic on this frontpage, it may well be a shot of the unusual garb he
sports for the annual dip on Boxing Day. Vic how did you get on with the UKIP nomination? - Paul thank you so much for that, and you are right I would like to be on the Dover
who's who page, that would be one of the highs of my life story.
And it is a yes to Ukip as you know both my wife and me went to the meeting last night at the Ypres Tavern in West St Sittingbourne and what a jop we had geting there
siting on the M2 for over 1hour all the roads were blocked, anyway all done now I have lots of meeting to go to now and meeting up with the public again,as you know I love geting up and talking at Public meetings, and I think UKIP are
going to do well next time,but alot of work to do if that is to happen,thank you for asking,YES VIC MATCHAM IS BACK. - Congratulations Vic re the UKIP nomination.
That is quite an exciting achievement all round. Nobody really gets very far these days without party backing. Well done...you could make one hell of a comeback. - Paul again thank you for that,it is very exciting for all of us,I will fight right up to the last hour, as you know I have been around the block a few times and also this is my last time"or is it" there is all to play for
over the next few weeks,I just hope the local papers will play fair and gave us room in the papers to get points over as well asa the two big partys,I think they will they did the last time round for me and this time with the party
behind me it will be even better. - With a bevy of beauties from the 6 countries competing for the title of Miss European, I am very proud
that Saskia won her Deputy Princess title for Ireland, she really enjoyed the whole experience. - Vic
you know my opinion on your standing so wont repeat it - Well done Saskia you look beautiful. Hope Natascha enjoys half as much success as you have had.
- Well done guys - glad you made it PaulB
A great book that should also be a good Christmas present for many people.
I bought two books so I could read it twice !!
Congratulations once
again.
Roger - Thanks Paul/Roger
The Wives were convinced we would never get our act together and finish it, so it is great to prove them wrong and
see it in print :) - Well done Paul & Jeff!
- The boys done well, Congratulations Paul and
Jeff, its a great little book, so good, that Roger bought it twice! Its fascinating to see Dover in pictures past, truly amazing. We shall treasure our signed copy from our very own Dover Celebs of today. Was good to see you
both. - Says it all PaulB, this country is in a financial crisis all of its own making and what do Labour highlight... the possible return of fox hunting.
That more than anything shows just how out of touch the left are with the public Frankly most people could not care a ..... about fox hunting.
ps. All the Conservatives say they will do is offer a free vote on a private members
bill. Fox hunting is not an important issue to anyone except the out of touch idiotic left on one hand and those who love their hunting on the other. Its meaningless to the rest of us. - What a pretty picture. Safety in numbers or just a herding instinct?
- i think that a certain confidence is
starting to return to the reds.
too little too late?
we have a good few months to go yet, there will be many twists and turns to come.
i listened to a journalist on a news channnel today saying that for the first time
the PM was starting to look like a PM. - Not sure why they would feel confident, Angus Reid poll today shows a 17% Conservative lead over Labour who are at 22% just
1% ahead of the LibDems. There are some methodology issues with this pollster and experts believe they do slightly under estimate the Labour vote and would expect it should correct back to the 13/14% lead most polls are showing.
Worrying for Labour is the fact that this is the first one to have done its field work after the Queens Speech. - A good photo there of Gwyn, visiting minister
Margaret Hodge and our happy bunch of Labourites, very apt with the Castle framing the scene as they had just come back from there after their tour of the Grear Tower, nice
one. - Hurrah for roger!! Nice one Dover - a good choice well made!
- Thanks Bern - and thanks
Paul for putting it up so quickly.
I was really happy with how yesterday went and knowing I have the support of so many people in Dover - the Chamber Board, the Town Council and the businesses themselves, makes me feel I can
achieve what Dover needs.
I was very pleased that so many people came to support the launch - standing room only, so that was a wonderful start.
Onwards and upwards as they say.
Thanks
again.
Roger - Congratulations Roger, I am so pleased.
- goes without saying that we all
wish roger and the chamber of commerce every success.
loved the pic of miss precious. - Common sense has broken out in Dover with the newly appointed, very
capable Roger Walkden taking on the role of Business Support Manager alongside the new reorganised Dover Chamber of Commerce. A splendid, most positive meeting took place yesterday, so, yes Roger, onwards and upwards and with this new
very impressive management team... watch this space. - By the way, little Miss Precious is called Talia, I'm almost certain, but with four little
delightful Preciouses one can get confused! - Yes, a good day for Dover yesterday. With support, I think that this time the Chamber of Commerce stands a
chance, and nobody in this town is more pro-Dover than Roger Walkden. Good luck, Rog! - Appointing Roger, the best choice for the post - very
best of luck for a chap who is 100% behind the Town. - Thank you for the best wishes to the Chamber. I have no doubt at all that Roger is the man for
the job. - Well done Roger. A great move by the Chamber...now lets kick some ass...as the Yanks say
- Congratulations Roger and well done to the Chamber of Commerce.
- Well done Roger - perfect person for the job :)
- Congratulations Roger, a Perfect choice for the job, more like 110% behind the town!
- just looking at the top
pic again, wonderful cardboard cut out, if i did not know better, i would have sworn it was roger himself. - And Last night DTC voted £9500 for support for this
initiative. Everyone has been working for a long while on this - and there's more to follow if you read the minutes or attend tomorrows Council meeting. - Congrulations on your appointment, Roger.
Good news for Dover town centre I am sure. - Well, I don't know what to say - I'm overwhelmed, I really
am.
I really do appreciate all your kind and supportive words and comments.
Hopefully I'll be able to give progress reports on what I'm up to and agreements etc. made.
I will be asking every business to fill out a
survey on what they feel is needed - from their own business viewpoint and for Dover and if any of you have any suggestions, either email me (rogerw@doverchamber.co.uk), or call in and see me in the new office in Worthington Street (part
of the Accommodation Shop).
I don't intend to make this a desk-bound job, but be out and about talking and working with the Town Council and the businesses etc.
Thank you all once again -
sincerely.
Roger - Thank you Dave and to DTC. The support of the Town Council has been first class from the start.
- Referring back to my posting 18th November .At the Full Council last evening the Motion put forward by a Labour Councillor re having an open debate in public re the state of
the District was defeated .The Conservative Leader put forward an amendment which was accepted by a majority vote thus the original motion was defeated .Interestingly enough the press walked out before the debate commenced so you will
not have a report in the paper .
I voted that we should have more open meetings .WE used to do this in the past .I believe the general public who elected us and whose money we spend by voting through budgets year on should have more
of an insight as to what goes on .If they heard how some councillors debate perhaps the general public migh look at us all in a different light . - i could not agree more
susan.
the time has come for an in depth debate on the subject, also i believe that the level of debate would improve with more of the public present.
correctme if i am wrong, but i get the impression that the private sessions
probably involve a certain amount of personal point scoring that would stop if witnessed by the public. - But the Council meetings are open to the public - any one
can go.
No one does though and can anyone tell me why they don't ?
Apathy, that's why; if they wanted to come and listen and see what goes on, they can; in fact this very point was discussed: why does the public not bother
to come and see what goes on at the Council meetings.
Many public meetings I've been to, where the general public are invited, turn into a rent-a-mob type of meeting and shouting and hollering on any subject.
I voted
against this because we were promised a fuller discussion on the whole of the District in every aspect, which I thought would be of greater value - and the people can still be
involved.
Roger - Since Cameron Macsween's speech above the DTC have now also joined in with financial support too, as was posted a
day or two ago by Cllr David Hannent...to the tune of £9,500. So when you see this level of encouragement from all major bodies then clearly people feel this new idea, this new Chamber, is a real runner.
As we saw from the posts
below earlier..Roger Walkden was a hugely popular choice as Business Support Manager. - You can see from Rogers postings the Conservatives group had a different
approach to me .Im a great believer in allowing the public to attend an open meeting where they can voice their feelings .The kind of meeting which Roger and the Conservative group voted for will not allow this .The public will just sit
there and some councillors will play to the gallery
People like to express their feelings and in some cases it is rent a mob .Parish Councils have open AGMS If the elected councillors cannot stand the heat then they should think
carefully about their positions .
We have less Full Council meetings now and the oposition group donot stand much chance of getting their views across
I will always vote on the side of free speech .
Im not a puppet ..
.
- most things are decided in cabinet now, the public part is just for show.
the fact that the local press rarely attend says it all. - it does look like the chamber of commerce is now taking a more proactive role in dover life.
it always seemed very staid, the newspaper column was not very inspiring,
though i am sure everyone was working hard.
with barry as chair i think that it will be more lively in the future. - SUE
Have to say Im with you with
the open debate.
Iv always supported open govt, but never supported cabinet system
i warned the labour group when in control how the tories would use the cabinet to close down debate and have the council run by 10 cllrs
sometimes less - I made that very point Keith there is too much power given to the few .Every so often they need a wake up call .I tried to get the Public
Transport Liasion sub Committee reinstated .I received the expected reply .Very difficult when us back benchers have very little opportunity to speak .I even got caught out forgot I was not in committee mode and almost got cut off in
three minutes .The Chairman was in a very strict mood at the meeting and even I had a problem chancing my luck.I will as you know weadle the odd relevant comment in if I can .I could not get the public toilets reopened i n Russell
Gardens . - Just out of interest, where are these Town Council meetings announced so that the public can listen or voice their opinions on local debates. If the general
public do not know about a meeting taking place, how can they take part. - simple Barry go to the DTC website and agendas and minutes are all published.
so are
accounts and attendance BTW - They used to post them on the notice board outside of their offices .All meetings have to be advertised .DDC post theirs
outside of the main building .
Barry the general public usually have to sit and listen .DDC have a slot where the general public can request to ask a question .Very unusual for anyone to do this .Years ago when the big debate re
the future of River Recreation Ground was a hot potatoe the general public did go along and speak .Still the people of River are like that .We had hoards of people outside with placards .I had hundreds of stickers printed "save our
rec" We were not allowed inside the offices wearing them . - Thanks very much for the information, self explanatory in this day and age, I was more concerned about the older
members of public who do not have a computer or are not used to using the internet highway. Do the DTC still post messages outside their offices for passers by to see? - Going to have a wander down to see Ade Edmondson. He was Vyvyan in The Young Ones and Eddie Hitler in Bottom, amongst other things. Have had a lot of laughs from his manic slapstick over the years. Incidentally, I see that
he is married to another very funny person, the comedienne Jennifer Saunders. - Switch on always brings crowds in
- I watched all bottom and the young ones
love his humour
- I didn't go to a dinner but had
the privilege of inspecting and presenting the prizes to the ATC at their annual parade last night.
If you want to see the possibilities for the future of Dover you have to see these super young people. They were enthusiastic and
strong willed. Dover ATC is something we should be proud of . I was heartened by them and know well that there are many other groups such as this including other cadets and scouts etc that all deserve our support.
I did have an
exhausting day but have never had so many photos and smiles and hugs from the children of the town. I have done it for a few years but yesterday was exceptional. The atmosphere was electric. Thank goodness no one knew who I was!
I did record a Happy Christmas for Dover for the Kent on Sunday website. Congratulations to all those in DTC that organised the day. - Well done David, excellent
stuff, good to see you in Red Suited action last evening. You were a natural. Have changed that item now from 'dinner' to 'parade' just to get it as accurately as possible. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Bet that red
suit of yours will take a long time to dry out! But glad you had a good day. - good pic of david h there in his santa outfit.
does anyone know who the other town
councillors in the photo are? - Ah! now let me see, there's Mickey Mouse, Pooh Bear, Minnie Mouse and Tigger, surely you have met all these Councillors Howard and
know them by these names Lol! Seriously though I think they were all young people helping Santa. Big DavidH will know I'm sure.
It was a Fantastic day, Well Done to DTC and everyone who worked so hard to make it all happen, even
the driving rain didn't put pay to the Winter wonderland of fun. All the children were thoroughly enjoying themselves and of course us older kids too! - GOOD OLD JOHN HE GET EVERYWHERE AND A HERO TWICE IN 2 YEARS THINK HE DESERVES AN AWARD FOR WHAT HE DOES
- Yes indeed, I'll echo the Congratulations to the Town Council
and the Mayor; in fact everyone who played a part on Saturday, whatever it was, should be congratulated.
Well done.
Roger - no
pics of the carnival court yet, they are usually very prominent at these events representing the town. - I bumped into Mandie and troupe late in the day on saturday
about 6.15...during the horrendous downpour and they were all soaked to the skin. Mandie looked as if she had had a dip in the fountain and was so wet that she had given up trying to attempt to stay dry, but was laughing
merrily.
I was still making a vain attempt at staying dry and was wearing Posh Barry's eye catching waxed hat...cameras were soaked so had lost the will to live myself at that
point. - just the hat, did pb not lend you his barbour jacket and green wellies?
he would still have had an umbrella to keep the labradors dry. - Yep we were there Paul, Totally soaked through to the skin waiting for our photo opportunity which we had been told we could have, Only to be let down badly when Ade
Edmonson Was whisked away quicker than a blot of lightening by Town Council Employees, with not as much as a Hi.
To say I am disgusted is an understatement. You know how wet we all were Paul. The kids had worked their socks off as
usual promoting Dover, and all they wanted was that one picture.
What really suprises me is that at other towns switch on events the carnival court are up on stage. NOT IN DOVER!!! I had to battle my socks off just to have them
inside the front barrier after being told by DTC stewards more than once it "wasn't happening". Not what I had been told at all. So not impressed because those girls were soaked to the skin.
- I have lots of pics of the girls Howard. Miss Dover Loren was the star attraction in the morris dancing squad, the girls also handed out several hundred leaflets promoting
the event, sold raffle tickets for the Mayors Goodwill fund, to name but a few bits they did on Saturday x - Mandie I see your point ,however Terry Nunn has posted a superb
video on the forum and its quite clear the girls were enjoying themseves singing literally in the rain .
I was not at the event but if that is all Ade Edmonson did well was it worth iy .He said a couple of words before switching on
the lights .
How much did they have to pay out this year .
This is not knocking the DTC as previously posted I have heard good comments - The girls did have a
good time Sue, however they are taught very early on that no matter what happens you carry on. My youngest court member is 6, the eldest 17. Not sure their parents appreciated soggy children, or that they had been pushed from pillar to
post, due to very poor communication between stewards and Town council staff. The battle to get them where they actually were on the video should not even have happened. - Unfortunately I could not relinquish my Barbour Howard, as Colette had the umbrella for the dog and her goodself of course.
- great to hear the good work that the
girls did mandie, such a pity that they did not get on stage.
they certainly deserved it, putting on a brave face in those atrocious conditions. - good to see the
pics from the wedding fayre, by all accounts the renovation work at the barn is first class.
all new ventures must be warmly welcomed in dover(or just outside), good to see the mayor doing her bit too.
- The barn looks beautiful. I love the doves in the caged archway and Saskia looks great in that dress.
- Ah! yes Jeane, the Barn at Farthingloe is indeed a beautiful place and ideal for holding events such as Weddings, Christenings and Parties for all occasions, Saskia was so taken by it that she wants to have her 18th Birthday
Party there in February. - This looks great - used top pop in there for cream teas from time to time in the past - sure have beefed the place up since then
- Congratulations to all involved. - buddy
are you sure that you are not thinking of little farthingloe farm? - Excellent photos and it looks like the Gods were kind to Jeane with the weather.Look forward to the reports.
- Gosh Marek youre up early..you caught me in full production mode!lol! All finished now with hopefully no clangers, well its very early and Im not fully compos mentes yet. We promised
forumites this story a while back in the Members Club and now here it is for all to enjoy.
Well done Jeane. many thanks..youre looking good! - Thank you
Paul B. We were so lucky with the weather, I couldn’t believe it, mind you I did have a ‘word’ with Arthur beforehand!! The dress was amazing but it took 20 minutes to get me into it and another 15 to load me into the car where I took up
nearly 3 seats! - You continue to be ahead of the game Jeane, you've done a great job there for Arthur, lovely pictures and such a picturesque cemetery. The
Victorian mourning dress is very apt for the occasion. - Thank you Colette :)
- Well Done Jeane, you certainly look the part to dedicate a plaque to Arthur's memory. I remember West Norwood cemetery well as I lived in Upper Norwood in the past, it
is an interesting graveyard but, not one to take a short cut through as I did once late at night finding an open grave waiting for me! After extricating myself which took an eternity, I knocked all nocturnal graveyard shortcuts on the
head forever. - Thank you very much Barry. Funnily enough I had an ‘Ab Fab’ moment prior to the unveiling, I’d wandered off the path to greet a friend and nearly fell down an
open grave plot!
- Two or so days ago I saw that these flowers (showing above) had been rather mysteriously placed on the little pier at the seafront across from the
Premier Inn ( Millers). Three bunches of colour calling out loudly on a very grey and gloomy day. I have no idea why they were there or who left them or what they were commemorating. I havent added any words to the picture above as i
think in this case the picture is worth a thousand words and says it all.
However if anyone knows the reason why they are/were there they could let us know. My email added. Many
thanks. - Wasn't there something on the news about someone being rescued from the water near here last week? Maybe they didn't survive.
- Hi Phil yes we carried that story in the Members Club forum bit of the site and its still there. I saw it all unfurl and got a weak picture of the event. The picture was weak as it
was getting pretty dark at the time. The police did contact me directly after that following my enquiry, to say that the young chap concerned was recovering but had suffered cuts and bruises. So flowers unlikely to refer to that incident
I would think....although... - Could they have something to do with the poor chap who met such a tragic end during the regatta?
- Yes it could be that Chris although its not an anniversary of the tragedy or anything like that...but perhaps the family were just passing or on a visit or
something.
I thought afterwards...would it be anything to do with the Herald of Free Enterprise? Im not sure now from memory what time of the year that ship went down. It was in fact before my time here in Dover but it must have
been heart wrenching and horrendous for the two towns involved. Gazing right now at the ships out there in the very stormy conditions yet again today...it doesnt bear thinking about that such a thing would ever happen again.
I
just wondered if it is anything to do with the memory of that day. - March 6th 1987.I would think the flowers are from someone passing through .
- that top shot is one of the best i have seen on here, i bet the crew of the trawler would not agree though.
- Two great pictures. And yes, the weather has been unprecedented. It`s been a great Summer, and a lovely, mainly mild Autumn, with more than our normal share of wind and rain. What makes our local climate so great and
interesting. - Many thanks guys re the pictures. Like those ones myself too. They are due to change today into people pictures but slight delay for the moment.
Was funny
though..didnt need to change the copy to monday on the stormy shot above because its almost as stormy today. Shipping forecast said gale force 8 today, whereas yesterday it was up to severe gale 9. But the blustery damp howling gale type
weather continues. I see there is a thread on Global Warming now in the Members Club so that should be worth following. Lots of wise owl contributions there so check it out. There is no doubt the climate has gone bananas but are we
causing it? Here we are in December with Christmas approaching fast and the weather is still mild and we've had no cold weather to speak of. What's the odds on a white
Christmas? - "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas, Just like the one's I used to know" Our seasons as we knew them in yesteryear are alas no more, Global Warming
seems to have changed all that, sad.
The lone flowers on the pier, could it be the anniversary of the lady that sadly took her life there a while ago? - Ah...re the flowers there Colette you might well be right. I hadnt quite forgotten that incident, and who would having seen it unfortunately unfurl before my very eyes, very sad it was and very unfortunate and a shock to see,
but as it was a few years ago now I didnt think of that as being the reason, but you may well be right.
I dont think there is any chance of a white christmas not with the weather generally being so warm...Ive just come back from a
sojourn to the shops and was beaten about the head by the howling gale..wind and rain, wind and rain, and so it goes on. I hear on the radio a severe weather warning for Cumbria again, home to all the recent floods. Water levels there
higher than seen for 300 hundred years...so the experts say. - And now a new display of pictures moving away from the recent sombre aspect...Christmas people
pictures with more to follow in a day or so. What a cracking shot that is by Howard above of the little girl. A great pic! - Howard, thats a wonderful picture of
Oceanne, the Christmas Spirit all captured in the eyes of a child. Just because you can't see the North Pole, it doesen't mean its not there, Santa Claus, he just is. - Ah! Howard, Well Done with those photos and I love the one of the little girl waiting to see Santa, it just says it all!
- thanks for those kind
comments, could hardly go wrong with the subject matter though. - HOWARD
great pictures mate.
SHEILA
Glad the clarendon and westbury has a wonderful chairperson and band of volunteers.
Long may it
continue. - Bless, her little face says it all. What a wonderful photo. Oceanne is a very pretty and unique name too. Looks like a good time was had by
all - well done. - no great mystery about the name jeane, it is french for ocean.
might catch on over here, who knows? - Yes indeed well done Howard for the photos and Sheila for organising the Christmas Fayre.
Hope you raised some good money for CAWCA; you obviously raised the spirits of
many people.
Roger - some great shots there, i thought that the last one was the best.
it looks like colette is secreting
the cutlery into her handbag. - Shush! Howard, dont tell everyone lol! Many thanks to Adeline and all who worked so hard on this splendid luncheon. It was a lovely
event as always with great company, superb entertainment and scrumptious food and the chef came into the Great Hall at the end to take his bows. - So thats
where the cutlery came from !!
It looks like it was a great "do" there..maybe I might get an invitation next year !!lol. Have seen pictures of it every year and it seems a great idea. I did see a performance of the Cameo Opera
at an evening event at the Town Hall a few years back and very good they were too. All that Opera has an uplifting effect after several vin rouge. One could almost break out in a chorus from Carmen.
On a different topic...there is
a statement from MP Gwyn Prosser re the Harbour Board privatisation in our Members Club forum. Dont miss that. The story has recently re-emerged due to the revelation of a plan by Bob Goldfield for DHB to seek privatisation. This item
would normally merit the frontpage but space is a problem for the moment. - it does look like a great do, how do the blokes get an invite?
if my memory
serves me correct, roger was there last year too, seems to be building a reputation for himself. - Haven't I got one Howard ?? Yes, you're right Jean and I have
been to previous ones and thoroughly enjoy them.
I didn't have any vin rouge, just a weak lager shandy - driving and gout keep me sober ! - but I can stil enjoy the event.
It's not a freebie, but it is a great lunchtime -
from the entertainment, the food and company.
Roger - I have never been to one of these Ladies Luncheons .Is someone telling me something ??
- i note that none of the diners are wearing hats susan, is that something to do with it?
- Ah Sue a lady of
your standing in the community should surely be there in full flounce mode..even complete with hat, sure why not. Maybe one of these days eh?...and we might even be sitting together on one of those round tables..oooh steady!!
Have
changed the page above now but the events on there have been saved into All Recent Features...the next people pictures will be from tonights party. Hope to see you there Sue. You can pop out of Jessies Bar after a glass or two and watch
the big screen, its right across the street! lol..ah Im just pulling yer leg! - I do hope you all have a good time tonight .I have been at meetings this week and
like many people i have a cold and cough which will not go away .My son and fiancee are also visiting me as they are off to the states tomorrow.The son is working there for a few days .My other son is still in Singapore working .These
engineers get around you know .My Daughter has been busy working with a PCT in the Midlands .
Luncheon Club perhaps next year .I would have worn my hat if it was before six pm - Another fine picture Paul.
- That is a beautiful sunrise that you have captured PaulB, Well Done!
- Many thanks guys..have now moved on to the Party pictures. Lots of them.. so twas a big job getting that many done and on display. Always a pity that we cant get everyone up
there...still have to write something to go with them to add detail, but for the moment Im off for a break!
Want to say though how good a job Tony Tse owner of Chapter Eight did for us all. First time we have ever had a hot meal
laid on. ..all great stuff! And a firm well done to Colette Boland for organising everything. - Great photos, wished we could have been there....ah well, next
year! - Envy, envy. Woe are we, to live away!
At least we can see the pictures. So glad everyone had a good time, and it went well.
I wonder if Simon would have
joined the elite group of ceiling-scrapers. It is quite understandable if anyone had chosen to lie down by the end of the evening. ;-) - Nice to see everyone at
the party friday and as you can see everyone had a good time, and thanks to chapter 8 for a great spread of hot food which was something different.
- What a
Terrific Party spread of pix above, Well the Party's over and what a Great night it was. Many thanks to the lovely Tony at Chapter Eight and his team especially Wendy and Ing who were so helpful throughout the evening. Us Forumites
shure know how to Party!! I'm glad to hear you all enjoyed it. - Glad you all enjoyed yourselves .Im very poor company at present .All I want for
Christmas is for my cold to go away .Currently my ears are blocked I have a job to hear people . - i never got invited that wasnt nice was
it - Sorry to hear you are still ill Sue...hang on in there its sure to pass off soon. This time of year its easy for all of us to pick up the flu and colds as we do more mingling
than normal. Hope you are back on top form soon.
Ah yes party went very well..we have a tradition of good party's..we will have to keep it up.
KAH big invite on anchor page for all forumites, how did you miss it?..its
still there but now has "The Party's Over" added.We also had a massive thread running in the forum section. - "That was a Prawn Cracker of an Evening".....Brilliant!!!
Well Done Colette! and 'Big Up' to Tony Tse and all the staff at Chapter Eight, you all made the evening flow as copiously as the wine and conversation. Good to see so many forumites having a good time. - some great pics there, the ladies look as stunning as ever, some of the blokes put themselves out, ian and victor looked the part.
the two barry's??
not a tie
between them tsk tsk. - Again it was just a great night for me and the wife still talking about it now.
But will it get me on the Who is Who page ?
Only
a joke but a big thank you all from both of us. - I have now got my ticket for Friday night,look out ladys I will be on my own dressed up like James bond and I do
look like him to but I do not have a car like him or the money to go with it,and can not dance because of my leg but all rest is O.K. - Yes I beleive we've got
tickets for friday night too Vic so will see you there. Its the Mayor's Yuletide Ball, just to let people know what we are speaking about. This is a fund raiser...our 'ball' pictured above was a fund loser lol!! but still, you know
what they say about money...
...."you cant take it with you!!"
I cant dance either Vic but in my case its because Ive got two left feet. No doubt though I will be forced onto the dancefloor at
gunpoint! - Paul
Great to hear the party was a success
Sorry I could not be there but I was poorly with this flu bug that is going round. I think it must like
Aussies because it is still with me and won't go away - Sorry to hear that Trevor - hope you're well, in time for Christmas.
Glad to say that Jean and I are both
free of any germs (fingers crossed), hope that doesn't change.
Roger - Sorry to hear you are ill Trevor..would have enjoyed having you at the party, I see
your colleague Michelle has the bug too, but hopefully team Ramada will be back in clover soon.
Glad you got your new details operational. - Just going to
pick the wife from hospital; she has now had the plates taken out of her leg,but will not be geting about for some weeks,I am going in on the 23jan and it will be some weeks before i am up and runing again.But I am going out again
tonight for dinner at the swinggate,will have to go on my own now and again on friday at the Town Hall see you there. - Gosh sounds painful there Vic re Lesleys leg.
Give her all our best from all the forumites. - Vic, please wish Lesley well from us all here, I know you will look after her and spoil her too with lots of TLC. x See you on
friday. - Thank you for that yes she is back home,she is in pain but still smiling and you are right I am looking after her,please if any of you come our
way please pop in to see her.Just to tell you I now have my date for a new knee,I am going into Margate on the 23 Jan 2010 I will be in there for about aweek.
Good thing is I will be there for the big dip. - That Bl**dy Trevor gave me the flu bug at last nights Scruity meeting,but unlike the Aussies we struggle on.Thanks Trevor
- MMM
well i suppose i had to have a few little bugs that wanted to leave my body for more properous accommodation but please be assured the majority of my flu bugs have stayed with me and are spending another week upsetting my bodies
metabolism - Dover Castle, thats definitely one for my diary. I will be watching for sure, the Great Tower is an absolute spectacle now, will be interesting to watch the
various stages of the re-creation process. If you haven't made a visit yet then put it on your to-do list for the New Year, you'll love it.
What a lovely photo of Lisa and Serena and what a fun packed agenda in River this
Saturday, I especially love Lantern Parades and of course Carols around the Christmas tree, Enjoy! - spot on colette, i have seen it 3 times and will go
back again when the winds die down up there.
looking forward to the TV programme, something to give a positive image of dover for a change. - yes i will be
watching our dover castle on tv saturday nice to see our town and castle mentioned.
what a nice little flurry of snow we have been having hopefully we will have lots more so we can have snowball fights and make
snowmen - Dont forget its all happening here in River tomorrow .
- sad to see a pub with such a great history and one
that should have a nice future going downhill.
i heard it was being converted into flats, anyone know more? - Who say's thew White horse going down hill.
maybe they are renovating it ;]
The trouble is that it is only open for short periods and the beer is expensive compared to some other venues around town. Still it is a great little pub and a good tourist attraction with all the
names on the walls - most people that go past it or have used it say it is going downhill.
it is becoming an eyesore and seems to be rarely open for business.
it
was very popular a few years back.
i doubt whether passing tourists would be attracted enough to wander through its doors should they not be locked. - Let us hope
the River event goes ahead .Currently im rather wary of going out doors .,so dont know what the pavements are like in Lewisham Road .Vic has just gone out Perhaps he will run his car up the Close a few times so we oldies can venture
forth
Any young men out there .You dont have to be rich . - Great picture PaulB. I hope you've recovered from last night. We certainly have. A most enjoyable evening
it was too. - Buckland Avenue has been gridlocked all day,a little bit of snow and Whitfield is also impossible to get too,and some people want to build a Hospital
there! - Great pictures again Paul. The top one looks inviting for a Boxing Day dip.
- Thanks guys re the pictures..did
have quite a few others but just settled on these three as...well I blame the excesses of last night for limiting my output! Nice to hear from you Paula..glad you have recovered. Im fine now myself too.
Colin it seems quite a few
of the guys are going in on the Boxing Day dip...they are all entirely mad of course.
Will have pictures of the Mayor's "Do" tomorrow so watch for those. - We went shopping at Sainsbury's at junction 13 on the M20 and going up, we could see miles of traffic coming back into Dover - must have been at least 8 or so, so we came back via Capel Le Ferne, which was O.K. until we got
into Folkestone Road and from the Plough to where we live, it took over 2 hours. No time to come into Dover to do more shopping, which we needed to do.
Did you get to the Corn Mill Sue ? Did it go ahead ? I'm sure the congestion
all around Dover prevented many people from doing what they wanted and needed to do - including us.
Roger - I'd just like to say a massive 'thankyou' to the
mum and young daughter who were stood at the corner of Albert Road and Maison Dieu Road late this afternoon handing out free tea and coffee to the motorists who had been stuck in traffic.
No fanfare, no publicity, just a genuine
community spirited action by a family. It's people like this who make Dover a great place to live. - most of us have been out either on foot
or in cars, and have wasted a great deal of time, i would imagine that events at crabble i.e the corn mill and the football would have lost customers.
i cannot remember seeing one police vehicle or officer anywhere trying to do
something to assist traffic flow.
the folkestone road from dover town heading towards folkestone was devoid of a single vehicle for very long periods due to roundabouts leading to it being blocked by traffic.
- We have just regained electricity after several hours of a power cut, and it has reminded me of how damned lucky we are to have heat and light and hot water! It has been
freezing, and the kids have moaned a bit although they have been rather good on the whole about being without their facebooks and games. Nice one to the woman Phil mentioned - how totally kind and selfless in a time of crisis. It always
brings out the best on those who have it to give. We used it as an opportunity to talk about what life might be like if we were homeless, and explore what that might feel like, so it wasn't wasted. And, once again, how lucky are
we??!! - Howard - I think they must have been overwhelmed with the traffic.... you name a route into Dover and you can guarantee there were trucks trying to get a long it. At
Maison Dieu/Castle Street cars were going the wrong side of lights etc and just blocking every possible flow of vehicles. - Yes we were helping out at the mill even
lesley came with me for about six hours,again Ant and Pat and the rest of the staff done a great job,and Santa is there again at 2.00pm on Sunday please come out with the family - Jeeez travelling who needs it!?
Its about 5.30am and I have just dragged my oul weary bones into the perpindicular, and glancing out the window as one does, I see that the poor
sods are still there bumper to bumper all night long in freezing conditions. The cars have been moving so slow that people are able to get out and chat for long periods. That was the pattern last night, but by now the travellers must be
very weary, and very very cold. I hope where they are going is worth the total travelling nightmare. It must be some sort of shangri-la.
My daughter BB was pushing to go to Cologne this very weekend on the Eurostar, she was very
keen on the Christmas Market. I managed to talk her out of it, and it was a tough job, by complaining of dire poverty and so forth, but look what the traveller is faced with. We might have been stuck in that damn tunnel for 15 hours.
Apart from that miserable Eurostar performance and the awful treatment their passengers get when anything goes wrong..they were also promising to strike! As was the well fed well paid British Airways cabin crews...disrupting
100,000 people. The traveller is fodder. But back to the Eurostar breakdowns...my feeling is that these companies just dont have the strength in depth staff-wise. These days companies operate with as few staff as they can get away with,
and there is no real plan B when anything goes wrong because there is no staff to execute a plan B.
Here in Dover the resilient ferries are still operational but just cant cope with the sheer volume of traffic....because the way
things have gone , everyone elses traffic has been shunted down onto our streets. People have lost faith in British Airways delivering a service and Eurostar have shut down and gone
home. - Paulb
Yes and a second euro tunnel train stuck last night.
urgent enquiry should take place as to why the UK struggles whilst other countries wih
far worst weather conditions don't - It's good to hear about community spirit and people offering tea etc. As I put on another thread, some one up the
Folkestone Road (up from where we live) had a sign outside offering tea/coffee for £1.00 each, so not so community minded.
Jean woke up about 03.30 and saw traffic was still queueing along Folkestone Road (Town-bound), but when I
got up at 06.15 it had gone.
We were stuck for just over two hours which was bad enough, but some of these people were stuck for many, many hours and I find it so awful there was nothing set in place to help them - a plan
B.
Although there wasn't much coming up the F/Stone Rd. there were cars overtaking those queueing - going Townwards, so dangerous and some were driving on the pavement on the other side of the road - madness, sheer
madness.
I don't think it has ever been this bad, certainly not in the 15 years we've been in Dover.
Couldn't have given people a good impression.
Roger - yesterday I went from whitfield into dover and using the back roads got as far as Cherry tree before giving up and retreating up buckland to Tescos. the roads up at whitfield were open as was the industrial estate and whitfield
hill.
Our visitors came from Deal and London and back without too much hassle.
Contrary to Johns comment below it is proof that whitfield is the best communication point and main routes were kept open. I saw an ambulance
lights flashing heading down melbourne but knew it would be stopped at the bottom of the hill for an indefinite period.
Dover does suffer from gridlock - and yesterday was the best argument for an out of town Hospital on a main
communication link yet. But District Councillors can't see it! God help us from their short sightedness and god help the poor soul who needed an ambulance yesterday - I
got home from the channel tunnel area lunchtime yesterday via Hythe, Folkestone and Alkham Valley with no probs. However, I was popping out again, straight down the town. It took me 40 mins to go from the lights at the top of River to
Beaconsfield Road, which I promptly went down, and off home again. And the traffic was still crawling down! - Some good pictures to show that the Mayors Ball as always is well
attended, and thank you to all who contributed to the raffle, as all the proceeds go to the Mayors Goodwill Fund which is used for local charitys And yes a good time was had by all. - What lovely photos, nice to see Roger and his lovely wife Jean looking so well. Colette your dress is beautiful. Looks like everyone had a thoroughly good
time. - all excellent pics, looks like a great evening there.
no surprise to see roger with his arm around two ladies!! - I am the one with the white Jacket on in the back ground,just sorry I could not stay to the end .
- you look very smart in your white jacket vic.
good waiters are very hard to come by nowadays. - That was quick - and very funny Howard. Vic did look
very smart.
Roger - Vic just so you are not too disappointed and so that everyone can see your white jacket, have put your picture up posing with Jan Tranter
in the forum thread about The Mayors Ball. Obviously we cant fit everyone on the frontpage here as it would be way too big, but also some pictures were a bit too grainy for frontpage inclusion...but see the thread for maximum joy! lol !
- What a splendid evening it was, our Mayor certainly done us proud! A Huge Thanks to all who made it so
delightful. - Paul That is alright with me,all I was saying that it was me in the white jacket.I am not disppointed in anyway,but will it yet get me on the
who,is who. page.Maybe it will happen after Boxing day, we will have to wait and see. - I understand that Vic won a prize in the draw. It was a calender so now he
at least knows the day!
Really - Thank you for that David What day are you on about?Now that I am not working ,apart from Sunday they are all the same.
- That wonderful Father Christmas outfit on the home page, whoever owns it could we borrow it for The Riversides Christmas Day Festivities? Should there be any Forumites
who would like to join us for the day as volunteers, they would be most welcome(dinner and fun provided) - Helloooo Ken, yes its a
great Father Christmas outfit. Its on the members club central anchor page, as we call it, rather than the homepage so that people know where to look. I get confused myself lol!!
Yes saw your post this morning Ken, all the way
from Finland. Very impressive and now on the Baltic Sea. Ed Connell, mariner to the gods, sometimes posts from these exotic locations too and its always exciting to us landlub bound individuals here to get them. Hope its not too rough
out there. - I am ready for the big off,I am away on Christmas day but coming back late on Christmas night to be there ,What will I have on this year,well it is
wait and see,but this I can not run in we all know why,just hope I do not get killed in the rush to get in and again to get out,get the hot soup ready and this year can I have a can of beans? - PAUL I have just send the photos by email to you,please let me know if they are o.k. thank you.
- ah Vic brave
effort but they are just pictures of snaps on a table or whatever. There is a lesson to be learnt here Vic with regard to publicity for your cause...always have a digital camera to hand. Great stuff getting to meet Lord Pearson and Nigel
Farage but somebody needs to record it so that you can use the material later for publicity. Getting a digital camera would be the first step.
However all is not lost publicity-wise as unless I fall ass over t... on the iced
pavements I will be down there on Boxing Day to picture you in the sea or emerging from it anyway...as ever.
I also have a good picture of the grand occasion when you met Tory enthusiast Barry Williams himself ( all happened at
the Doverforum party) I will get that one up in some capacity sometime soon...the clash of the titans!!lol - Thanks for
that Paul I am not that good when it comes to taking pictures,I did take them off the snaps with my digital camera and then my mate put them on the P.C. Yes over the next few weeks Barry and me will clash alot but for now lets all have a
very merry Christmas and a happy new year to all of you.(From your next M.P.) - vic
take pauls advice seriously mate.
the use of a digital camera will be
essential to your campaign, politics is all about image and images nowadays.
now you have your digital camera just take some test snaps of lesley, the garden, the car, whatever.
it does not take long to get the hang of these
things, even i can get the odd good pic, and i do not understand a word of the handbook. - Barry W-S is braving it yet again this year, so see you all down on the
beach. Brrrrr! Merry Christmas to everyone Ho! Ho! Ho! - Well done in advance to Barry W-S and isnt newer forumite Linda H going in too...will try to get a
picture of all forumites who are going in, clearly they are all from the looney fringe of Doverforum and have no respect for their own corpuscles..
Still they say cold dips in the freezing ocean helps prolong active life....I read
that somewhere, although we have yet to see living proof!
Last year I missed Barry W-S in the surf and I had to send him back in to get the shot. Well, all for the sake of art! He bravely went where no man hath gone before..back
in for a second dip. We're all barmy... - I think I will get alot of help this year geting in and geting out of the sea.
- Was thinking of doing Boxing Day dip as I thought it was in the morning but
12 noon is too late as we have lots of family coming to our house for lunch. Maybe next year. Happy Christmas and best wishes for 2010. Linda - Eminently sensible
Linda - have a good day and drink just a little too much.
Roger - Have now added the irrepressible and engaging personality of Mike Webb to the Who's Who
Page..a well deserved candidate for sure, now knocking that other well deserved and fascinating maverick Sue Nicholas off the top slot.
People can of course leave a message for Mike on the Who's Who Page itself, that page is open
to everybody. - What do you think of my pink hair?It was not that cold this year but a very good turn out well done to all,
- You looked lovely Vic and will look good dressed like that on the hustings too, come March/April.
Well done to everyone who went in.
I'll see how my photos turned out and
if any are O.K. I'll send them to Paul.
Roger - A good one again this year, all those brave souls, well done to them all. It was milder weather but alas no
sunshine this time around which is always good to have, to warm everyone and add a little glow to the photos, still a really good turnout. Poor BW-S was laid up with a horrible chest infection, it would have killed him or indeed cured
him, shure we will never know as he is still in the same sorry state now. - Great pictures above, and disappointed I couldn`t have been there to snap some.
The clarity of that first one takes some beating. - Great pictures but I am not disappointed that I could not take part. It is just too cold even in summer to swim in the
harbour for a lad born and raised in the warmth of the land down under - I wondered what made you different .
- brilliant pictures, the sheer numbers that went in is breathtaking.
- Some came up to me and asked are you Susan Boyle, so I sang I Dreamed A Dream to them
, And they said "No your Not" - Well done to all those that braved the boxing day dip all though the weather seemed quite mild you still could not tempt
me.
Happy to stand and watch hope the ladies from the Bull pub did well and raised even more this year.
PS Vic may need to borrow that pink wig sometime. LOL!!!!! - Jan,you are great just the way you are why hide it?
- Brilliant photos, I am so proud of Sean and the rest of the team as they were raising money for the
U15s rugby team, they have also been pictured above in the the group photo (2nd one) and the boys in the water with one of them wearing the red santa cowboy hat. Well done boys, hope you have raised enough to put towards a new rugby kit
-
Well done to everyone who made it and to all those crazy ones who even wanted to go in the freezing water. Fantastic x - Excellent photos of those brave guys
and girls...brrrr......well done.
Love the outfit Vic! - Crikey.. Vic is starting to look a bit too appealing in that pink wig...I better take these pictures down before we
all get corrupted. Either that or I better start getting out more !!
But seriously though enjoy the last look on the frontpage today or put up your comment before they are moved later into All Recent Features.
Well done to
everyone who went in and as ever the pictures of the event went down well. Its now a fully established and thriving event and indeed we may even have helped it get that way with our coverage in recent years. Who knows...whatever the case
anyway its great to see it doing well and even raising considerable sums for good causes. - The 'Boxing Day Dippers' certainly enjoyed themselves whilst raising
monies for good causes, unfortunately I wasn't well enough to join in the throng this year. Well Done to all! - Nice photos PaulB. The interior though reminds me of my old
school hall! ...functional but bland.
Will the centre have any changing room facilities for the multitude of cross channel swimmers?. They arrive from all over the world to practise in the harbour prior to making their channel
swim. - Hi Marek...just briefly as Im in the middle of doing the page above. It was NOT the official opening of the Watersports Centre yesterday, it was just the
official opening of the Jasins Cafe/Bar, so we didnt see anything other than the Bar area as pictured...so nothing other than the Bar area was discussed as such. It was Jasin Kaplan's Day if I can put it that way. He also runs the food
francise on Deal Pier and has proved successful doing that so they gave him the franchise here in Dover. A pleasant chap, thats him in the pictures above.
The Official opening of the whole place proper as it were, isnt I beleive
until April. You ask a good question there and one I dont know the answer to as yet Im afraid to say. - I understand that there will be changing rooms and other
facilities the Channel swimmers and their helpers/trainers can use.
Looking out to the Harbour from this level, it is one floor up, so below the cafe/restaurant are lots of other rooms - for the active people, connected via stairs
I believe.
The furniture may not be exciting Marek, but given that people may well be wet when sitting on it, it is functional - the view is anything but bland with probably over 180 o views, from the white cliffs to the left,
round to the clock tower and the Western Heights on the right.
It was a dull day yesterday, but on a summer's day, a great venue
that will be very popular.
Roger
- I ,obviously, wish everyone the very best of luck.It's an exciting project and hopefully will lend itself to promoting the seafront area.
Has anyone ever thought of
having a 'Hollywood' walk of fame type thing where famous channel swimmers past and present could be remembered by some sort of an emblem on the pavement (sidewalk) similar to the Hollywood star.Starting with Capt Webb and working its
way through the first female swimmer,youngest, fastest,return or relay teams etc..etc.It could be another fantastic attraction yet unobtrusive addition that may interest and draw visitors to Dovers elegant Victorian
seafront. - Well seing is believing .I was not aware this event was taking place .There are one or two faces there who did very little to help the progress of the
Sea Sports Centre where this Jasmins is situated .I see very few sailors there????
For years and years I made sure that the Water sports Centre was placed in the budget .Every year. and I got remarks like its only for the middle
classes .My sons sailed from there for years and the younger one spent hours working there and at the regatta helped out with the dragon boat race .Vic will recal Robert being there .
I note the officer who I supported throughout for
a new centre is not in the line up ???Same old faces .Hardly a sailor amongst them .
For years I have supported the young in learning to sail
I realise this was the opening of the refreshment cafe what ever ,however
beggars belief .
Will someone take that drink out of that mans hand .Its hardly politically correct . - I apologise for several incorrect spellings I cannot work
out how to edit .When I try the whole posting goes .Sorry - Sue have edited some of that for you now so should read okay.
But just to add this was the opening
of the restaurant , not the opening of the Watersports Centre. That official shindig happens in April. - We was useing the changing rooms for the boxing day dip ,i
said then it was all very nice.I lookward to going inthere at some time with my wife. - Yes , very exciting indeed to see the new restaurant open at the wonderful
new watersports centre here on our splendid Dover seafront. Jasin, his lovely wife Ferah and family made everyone very welcome.
Such lovely views, made me want to move in , I could just imagne my nice new loft apartment with
white sofa to the right, water bed to the left............ One can dream! - Sue, the majority of invited guests were from those who attend the Port
Consultative Committee meeting, which I do.
I don't know where the others came from.
It is a lovely venue in a great location, or is it the other way round ?
Roger - I shall have to try my brazen act again .Many years ago a certain few were invited to a luncheon on board an Italian Cruise ship .At that time I held
the post of Community portfolio.I telephoned DHB and explained My invitation must have got lost in the post anyway not many hours later I received a hand delivered one .I had a most wondwerful time .I suppose if you dont ask you dont get
.
- out of interest susan, why would a community portfolio holder warrant an invite to a freebie on a cruise ship?
- Howard I also with my wife had afreebie on a cruise ship overnight it did not sail but still very good,it was along time ago when i was on the town council.
- Great location for a restaurant, the views look amazing, I can't wait for the new marina to be built, ColetteB has the right idea, if only .......
- barry
all you have to do is free up some of your gilts and investments in blue chip companies then you can pay for the new marina as well as take control of the seaports
centre. - Howard as Portfolio Holder for Community you are involved in all community activities,often standing in for The Chairman of the CouncilPlayareas ,recreation
all come under that portfolio.
Now getting back to the Sea Sport Centre which originally started off as Dover Water centre .The original idea was to house all water sports under one roof .It became grander as time went on .It was
never meant as a facility for people to sit and look at the view and wine and dine .I fought for the young people of this district to have improved facilities .Many many youngesters have learnt to sail ,row etc from the old facilities
.When they come in on a freezing cold day dripping wet what they need is are warm showers and and also somewhere safe tpo store their clothes .A facility for hot drinks or cold depending on the weather .This is meant for the young people
.with water and a beach within their grasp .A sport facility which all can afford . - I well remember the debate when we received a presentation from DHB stating how
wonderful our Sea Front will be with the Marina being moved alongside the Prince of Wales Pier .A few of us were dismayed as yet more beach will be removed .It also makes it more difficult for dingy sailors .In answer to our fears well
a new better marina is far better and to what odds a few dingy sailors .So much for getting our youngersters off the streets .Well now they have a giant TV screen instead to while away their time .Instead of making young people heal;hy
and learning about sportsmanship.Oh silly me Im old fashioned - i was getting interested in your views there susan until you managed to drag the big screen into the
argument.
this is what holds dover back so often, backward attitudes, the restaurant/bar is vital
to the development.
i cannot wait to go down there on a nice day and enjoy a drink and something to eat, whilst admiring
the wonderful views.
the facility for the youngsters to learn sea skills would not exist without money coming in from us landlubbers. - Bit like the Yacht Club
Howard .I wonder if the young people will have to change to use the cafe /Bar facilities??
Yes the Big Screen will always come into my debates Howard .I was on the bus going to Canterbury today .Residents from the Gateway flats
sitting behind me .They used to live in River for years Conversation was about Dover .The tailbacks caused by TIRs when suddenly without any prompting they said whos daft idea was that to have a TV screen ?Needless to say they will not
support their local councillor again .They also disagreed with a Cable Car .They liked the High Speed Train .See I do listen to people .You would be surprised how manty people im in contact with on a daily basis .They are not old age
pensioners or housewives many are people of influtentiaL standing .. - I can magine the buses are a good source of debate and conversations Sue, even if you don't join
in, you can listen to what's being said.
The thing is, the big-screen (more or less), the seafront (wavy-line) development, the seasports centre, DTIZ, cable-car and other "big" developments are "free" to the people of Dover
as they are from external funding and are all important stages in Dover's regeneration.
What we mustn't do, is forget about the ground floor of Dover, the shabby buildings, the flower tubs, the litter and waste, developing the
Market Square area, promoting Dover to France etc. etc.
These are the essential everyday changes and improvements that the people and businesses of Dover, want and expect and this is where Dover Business Support comes
in.
With the right co-operation from all the Councils - Town, District and County, I can make a difference.
Roger - Sue just to add something about the
restaurant/cafe/bar. Its not possible to do something like this just for those in watersports as the enterprise would not pay..everything has to pay for the people involved, the people putting in the time and money, such as Jasin Kaplan
and his family in this case. There are vast slots of time when there is no watersport activity along the seafront whatsoever....so it is vital that it attracts members of the public otherwise curtains are a possibility. But I dont even
want to contemplate negativity in this case, I hope all walks of people use it so that it will remain bouyant and most importantedly of all...open. - Two good
postings there from Roger and Paul Gentleman to the last .Like Roger I want Dover Town to look more inviting however until the likes of some of our councillors start listening to the people and get to grips with what is needed at the
grass rootes then we will not succeed.Roger you know know how some Boo when You or I try to put a word of common sense into debates .On another thread I read that the Band stand should be on the sea front well thats what some of us
wanted in the first place ,Why is it always an uphill battle .Yes Roger I do hear some interesting debates on the bus.It really is an eye opener No ear opener . - It is
great to see this facility open at last, I cant wait to see that view for myself.
I notice the usual suspects are trying to bring down this new facility because they didnt get an invite, sour grapes will not change this town and I
for one am sick of reading about them!!
This Centre has been along time coming with those involved in the Committee that pulled it together not shouting out about their achievements. They should be congratulated for their sheer
determination, perseverence and this amazing achievement.
Well Done to you all.
Now do they do Latte and who wants to meet me for one????
Sheli. x
- Not sour grapes at all .I did do a long response to the last post which i somehow lost.I will not waste energy on trying to explain .
- I am still giggling
about the poor dingy sailors in Sues post - smarten them up, for goodness sake!! Give them a bit of colour!! Anyhoo - one thing to remember in all our talk of democracy is that The People are not always right.........dear God, please
stop my slide to the Right!! One of the very good reasons for electing paid reps is that first of all it gives The People a strength in local and national government and secondly it relieves thenm of the burden of daily strategic
decision making. The hope is that the paid reps will have the diversity of experience and the skills to make decent decisions, and the accountability and audit trails to create a transparency about that process. And the bottle to make
occasssionally unpopular decisions for the greater good.
PS - the sea sorts centre looks fabbo!!! Nice one - Sheli - if they do a double espresso that a spoon wilts in I
am your woman!!! - The greatest thing of all is that it has Actually Happened! The Committee behind it all are indeed to be congratulated and applauded loudly for their hard work
in getting there.
I'm your second woman and mine's a cappuccino so lets get this meet-up sorted girls. - that first sentence made me smile colette,
how many times has something been promised and nothing happened?
i can only endorse your congratulations to the committee and the many organisations that funded it.
i love the look of the building too, others don't, cannot
please everybody. - interesting shot with the aggressive looking sky and the apparent mill pond below it.
- Bern & Colette its a date!! let me know when xx
- Strangly enough Roger I have a meeting about the tubs tomorrow but we mustn't forget that the original arrangement was through the splendid work that George Allt did with
'Dover in Bloom' - whatever happened with that?
On the Market Square, as I think you know, there is a Market Square Rejuvenation Group set up that has a representative from the Chamber of Commerce on it along with the Mayor and
a representative of Kent Highway Services who own the area. - Paul B Perhaps you could take a photo of a Dover Loo before they all disappear
Nigel you are awake
then .No doubt Jo public will take to using the Flower Tubs for toilets
I see Nigel you are at this meeting perhaps some times delegation .There are enough of us out of work councillors who could lighten the load .I do know about
flowers etc .. - Sue you could well be right..public toilets are getting rarer than the Dodo. Somebody a few
years back did a picture book, somebody well known but her name escapes me for the moment, of all the victorian loos in London and beyond. It was something of a classic and even generated a tv series if I remember. Not much chance of
that happening in Dover. I think everyone, especially the politicians will be surprised by the stir of staggering interest these loo closures have caused. Took me by surprise
anyway. - With most of the cause being the other side of the
channel, I don't think that there was a lot Dover could do other than sit and wait.
I saw lorries taking every road possible to get to the docks, blocking turning and junctions, causing cars to go the wrong side of the road.
With the volume that goes through Dover Docks every day, there isn't a holding place should something go wrong.. - I take onboard Camerons point though about it being one of
Dover's biggest trading days of the year and the town was crippled by total lack of movement. Takings at the shops in central Dover are bound to have been adversely affected. The Chamber obviously keeps a large eye on the commercial
impact this kind of affliction has on retail outlets, and its not very good. - I'm happy to take on board any (helpful) suggestions about Dover.
I also want
to build a bigger database of emails, so I can inform as many people as possible about local business news and up and coming events etc.
All these emails I send out are blind, which means that no one can receive spam or scam emails
from them.
Roger - good to get a press release from the chamber, they always seemed to be a closed shop until recently.
- I didn't know you were having a meeting about the tubs Nigel - as I had done a lot of work with the Community Pay-back team and DDC's Horticulture department, wouldn't it
have been an idea to have invited me along ?
I understood they were to be discussed at the next Market Square rejuvination meeting, which was not today.
Roger - Yes you are right Howard, its good to hear from the Chamber and we are happy to get their message out. The release is talking about Black Saturday but I look out the window now and we are back in blanket snow conditions. Once
again the snow turned Jubilee Way into an ice rink last night prior to the gritter getting along. I think drivers struggled for a couple of hours on that one before grit, but its always a welcome site to see the flashing lights of the
gritter guys coming complete with massive snow plough attached.
Today though with a bit of luck wont turn into the chaos of last time as the pre Christmas rush to get away obviously wont be happening..however it remains to be
seen. Will get a picture up a bit later.
If anyone got a cracking frontpage type pic of the snow send it over. - Trouble is that the grit starts to become
useless below certain temperature, we recorded -6.5C at one point !! - Howard, its was not that the Chamber was a closed shop before, it was just that we were not involved with
Dover Town Centre trading, that being in the hands of TCM.
All has changed now with the DBS unit with Cameron having Board responsibility.
There will be a lot more ongoing communication in future from the Chamber,
specifically Cameron and Roger, in respect of Dover Town matters.
It must be a good thing for both Town and Chamber.
Roger reported to the Board on Tuesday, lets just say that we are very pleased with the way he has hit the
ground running. Keep up the good work Roger. - Some great photos above thank you.
- The vessel on the right of the 0800 sunrise photo above is the Cornelis Vrolijk which is a very large stern trawler which pops into Dover from time to time for
crew changes. She belongs to a Dutch company which operates freezer trawlers in European and West African waters. - some great pics there, loved the snowfall at night
one.
barry
i think it is important that the chamber keep in contact with the townspeople more than they used to.
we know roger is very upfront and it seems that cameron is too.
all very important that things are
seen to be happening by us. - I walked down into Town this morning to visit the businesses to let them know I am here. Some thought I was from afar as they had never
had someone go in and ask if there was anything they needed help with.
A couple of businesses did have problems, which I will try to sort out for them.
I left a card with them in case they want to contact me.
A
useful day - for me too.
Roger - Lovely sunset snowy photos.
- Howard,
thats true and thats happening but remember we are a District Chamber and our members are also from Sandwich, Deal and rural areas, with the Sandwich and Deal Chambers of Trade having Board representation on the District Chamber.
As I said under the new DBS arrangement Cameron has Board responsibility while Roger has the day to day role so it is they who will be speaking out on specifically Dover issues. That is not to say I will keep quiet, you know me,
but I will not tread on others feet, we are a team at the Chamber and that is how it should be. Fortunately it is a strong and experienced team too.... - Frozen Chips!
People have manned the battlements at Dover Castle for less! I wondered why it was a bit quiet on the email front :) - Ah!...it seems it was more my link than Microsoft
themselves...but they went and changed the link ...Im only the customer. How would I know!? However Im grumbling, but their email system is generally very good. Perhaps they sent me an email or something and I thought it was spam or a
fake. You get some authentic looking stuff through on the email and you have to just guess...this is fake, this isnt fake. I'll just have to reset my thingy now and bobs yer uncle....ermmm hopefully.
Has anyone seen my hammer? I
have a resetting job to do! - try defrosting them in the microwave paul.lol.
- Must try that next time
Brian lol!..Ive changed that item above now and will get something new up before too long. The email problem has caught me on the hop... so plot lost here! - To be
honest Paul, we have been out for long walks the last 2 days and whilst it is slushy and or icy underfoot, making sure one is dressed properly and wearing appropriate footwear meant it was only mildly inconvenient rather than treacherous
or dangerous. Yesterday the town was the busiest on a weekday I have ever seen it, though today was quieter, whether people were spending or just enjoying the snow I will leave to the retailers to tell
us. - To be fair to the council, they got the guys from the SITA depot out on mass yesterday and today to clear and grit the footpaths in town (Thursday) & London road
(today) - Well Vic has been trying to keep our paths clear but it is a big job .The grit bin soon gets emptied .I keep trying to get it re filled .So far our road has not been
touched .I send emails most days as it is important that the Ambulances etc get to the nursing home .The staff are having to walk into work .The buses did not run until lunch time .I had to make several phone calls to see why they could
not operate .The bin never came either although I was
Advised they would come late in the day .
I agree with Paul B .There are a ,lot of elderly who live in the York Street area .Yes we need the major roads kept clear but at the
same time some of us cannot even get to a road that is clear .Dont be fooled by what you hear on the radio They are rationing the salt .So areas like ours and footways will remain under snow .It is very difficult to get supplies when you
cant walk safely .
My little Grandson got me some food today .I must try to get out tomorrow .Three days in doors is crazy . - Should be remembered too that the grid
levels do seem to be heading for a critical level and with the cold snap continuing well into next week and perhaps another week it can only get worse.... - susan
the buses on
main routes were running first thing this morning.
best to check the stagecoach buses website each morning for the next week or two, it is updated regularly and very accurate. - Yes I know they were running on main routes Howard but when I heard on Radio Kent that River services were not running I rang to enquire why .Plus I spoke to some one at
DDC who also contacted Stage coach .Needless to say by mid day they were running into River .The staff at the home were walking to work and my friend who works at Age Concern had to walk into work yesterday .They were only doing a
shuttle service to St Radigunds part of the 60 route .Poor old River we suffer out here .No bin collection either .I have just looked out no grit lorry to be seen .I suppose we will have .lorries trying to get back up the hill tomorrow
.The Home does need food supplies .
I just get crioss when KCC member tells us how wonderful they are managing the salt supplies. - you got lucky
susan.
those of us in maxton or tower hamlets have had no service for two days and seems a long time before anything changes.
not the fault of stagecoach, they have done a great job, but KCC are ignoring local bus
routes.
i have been busy all day trying to find out how the very old people are near to me, and what they need from the shops.
i found that the main problem was not supplies so much as depression at being stuck
indoors. - Well done Howard.
I've walked down into Town for the last two days and the pavements are not good at all, no grit has been spread on
those.
I'm lucky that I have some proper walking boots which have a better grip, but how many people have them ?
Jean's Mum is 90 and it is impossible for her to get out, so I've got a few essentials - for her and us
while down in Town.
Most businesses are suffering, depending on what sort of business it is; the cafes are doing well, snow-clearing shovels have been sold out by Pennies; the gift shop, art gallery have been closed and gents
outfitters has been quiet, so clearly it is adversely affecting businesses.
I have spoken to KCC Highways several times over the last 2 days and was advised that DDC are helping to grit the Town Centre(s); staff were being
diverted from waste collection (presumably because the trucks couldn't get out.
This morning the wind is much stronger and therefore it will be and feel, so much colder too, so obvious though it is, if you're going out, do wrap
up with several layers.
Roger - Just back from the shops and its still terrible underfoot. Worse if anything as everything has compacted into uneven ice. Glad
they are gritting some places Ross, I think pencester has had some too, but getting in to there is treacherous.
I met a little old lady in Bench St, about 30 yards south of Market Sq...she was struggling using a walking stick and
she saw me looking and said..
"oh my this is very slippy" and she was right, the piece of pavement she was on was sheer ice, uneven ice. The only way you can help little old ladies like this is to encourage them to stay at home.
There are few people venturing out to the shops, although I did see in posh shop Marks and Spencer two leading forumites ( us posh geezers go in there!)...one Keith Sansum, the other Brian Dixon, both in good spirits although
Brian has the dreaded lurgy...I tried to stand as far away from him as decently possible! lol! Keep taking the treatments Brian! Good to see you lads.
ADDED NOTE: by the way M&S have NO milk today, and scant supplies of bread
rolls only. So deliveries are clearly not getting through. - I second that - we slid our way to M&S for essentials and stocks are running a bit low. Bread was just
about finished, so we had to buy cake.....! It is definitely more dangerous out today. - Paul, I would hope that you publish accurate information in your comments. DDC is NOT a
capped authority and has NO intention of being a capped authority. The government caps authorities that it considers charges excessive Council Tax levels and sets the capping level after Councils announce their Council Tax levels. Hence
nobody knows what the level is until after their decision is made. Hints indicate that any level set above between 3%-5% will be targeted.
I would also point out that I have already posted on this Forum that as Leader these
decisions are ultimately my responsibility and DDC Cabinet take collective decisions , so to pick out Nigel Collor is personally unfair to Nigel.
We are very conscious of public concerns and also conscious of the manipulation of
this matter by certain individuals. That is politics and the world we live in. I can and will deal with that matter in the appropriate arena. It would be unwise and imprudent on your Forum to detail the events and meetings that have
taken place to date. There is still much work to be done and relationships need to be maintained. Some people you will not be able to deal with, I accept that.I believe there is goodwill on both sides by the sensible to achieve a
satisfactory solution.
Please remember this meeting is a Dover Town Council meeting to consult with Dover precepted residents. Other Towns and Parishes have dealt with their own affairs in manners in which they deem fit. - the pavements are definitely worse today, i was a bit surprised that pencester gardens has been left as it is.
you cannot see the paths even.
somerfields seem
very well stocked, for those who dare venture out.
sadly a lot of the vulnerable will, the lady paul spoke about may not see anyone today unless she takes a chance with the conditions.
the wind chill is extremely
unpleasant, i think it was roger that warned us of this earlier. - Lets be realistic there has never been a time when all our roads and pavements have been gritted,
councils have always had to prioritise where they utilise their supplies of salt/grit. In the past, in times of councils having DLO's they would have mobilised their work force to sweep pavements etc. however now when all these
services have been contracted out there is not the available staff (except at a price).
- interesting post from our mayor on the subject of devolving
services.
looking at the bigger picture it seems that we are going forward to becoming a unitary authority with shepway and thanet.
when that happens we will need the town council to be better funded and ready to take over more
local facilties.
there are many issues that town councillors are better qualified to make judgements on rather than a large east kent authority. - Brrrr! Ventured
out earlier, pavements treacherous going downhill, fresh snow on compacted ice, managed to get the last half loaf of bread from Somerfields. I feel sorry for the elderly in these conditions. - It's not so much Unitary Howard, as joint working with neighbouring aurthorities.
We will indeed need the Town Council to take on more and more responsibilities and that will
require the Town Council as a collective "whole" as well as the individual Town Councillors to be more responsible and not throw their toys out of the pram if things don't go their way.
I do appreciate that the majority of Town
Councillors are working very responsibly and making sure that they don't take on something that is not as first appears - after all, it's your/our money, so it is good they are being prudent now.
Localism and local
responsibility is the future, so we need it done properly to start with.
As regards "better funding for the Town Council" they get that from their precept - which, as has been said many times, is not
capped. - Ross, we have had our contractors moving snow where possible. The issue is that they can't get salt/grit to do the job. That is a KCC function and their contractors
would not give us the salt/grit initially.
Watty - The one good thing this cold snap has done is to create a better community atmosphere. It takes a crisis to
get the true British spirit working.
We have many elderly in our area and between us fitter ones have ensured shopping done and also time to sit with some who have not been out for some three days.
My "shopping" trip this
morning to both Morrisons and M&S at about 0930. Not surprising several shelves empty but in Morrisons some were buying milk in excessive quantity.. I assume because of the item on last nights news.
Lets hope people will only buy
what they really need.
- PaulW I have made some amendments re the capping sentence so now it reads slightly differently but hopefully makes the same relevent
point...that the DDC are offloading.
Wrightly or wrongly Im afraid Nigel has become the public face of loo closure, as I guess it was his references to it all in The Dover Mercury which sparked it all off and singled him out as
the axe wielder in this case. Then eight, now nine pages followed in the Forum, as you know, so it all may have been headed off by a contribution from Nigel early on. Communication is
everything. - Roger you can say what you like but the looes should be open at this time of the year, said this alot now "It has been the old and young mums with
kids that have had to suffer "collor was wrong to close them and that is the end of it.This should have been sorted out beween the two councils before it got this far,but even like today they have not done so, the looes should still
stay open to the public. - PaulB says it all: communication is everything, but especially so in politics.
- roger
everything points to a unitary authority in east kent sometime in the future.
that is why i say that more government dosh should go direct to town and parish councils so that they can carry out more duties than
they do at present.
this would not be a precept as such. - Paul Watkins,you say you are leader and the cabinet make collective decisions,well where are the
minutes for this decision,and as you know we have observers at Cabinet,or was this made behind closed doors? Now I am not asking for anyone to resign that is a personal choice and if not down to the electorate.But these questions need to
be asked,because that is what the Council is about.We may not always agree with each other,and we know the rules you alot better than me,but this decision had to be made in public so when are where was that made and tell me where I can
find it on my Council Papers. - Howard
How true re "East Kent Unitary Authority".
All of the postings seem to be a fight between DTC and DDC and is possibly totally
politically motivated which should not be the case with local issues.
However if I look at my last Council Tax demand 70.8% of what I pay goes to KCC, 9.3% to Kent Police 4.6% to Fire Services 4.6% to DTC and 10.7% to
DDC.
As such I am quite satisfied with what I pay to DDC/DTC.
If our contribution that we make to KCC was allocated "locally" perhaps Dover (and the District) would benefit. KCC possibly has a very high administration
cost.
There is possibly a question as to what value do we get from KCC and at nearly the same contribution for policing as DDC do we get what we pay for with policing??. Our payment for these two areas being over 80%.
It
also has to be remembered that both DDC and KCC Councillors receive remuneration wheras DTC Councillors (as is the same with Parish Councillors) receive no remuneration.
I am sure with the current national economic situation
either "County" or "Local" administration costs have to go as there must be a high degree of duplication. - john
please excuse my ignorance here, i am not
up to speed with you council coves.
1) who are cabinet observers?
2) are the cabinet minutes available for all other councillors? - Paulb
yes was
nice to see you today
First noticed you at the tills with all the loud voices around you and your smiling face. Wasnt marks and sparks bare.
fair few people in there though.
looks like people have been hoarding and bulk
buying.
Presume thats cos of the predicted heavy snow sunday?
HOWARD
In relation to unitaries, Myself and Mr Hansell disagree whi is a firm believer in it.
Whilst its great for councils to share costs/services,
its quite diffrent for councils to become unitary.
On another thread a big debate has taken place about one cllr acting in an undemocratic way, just think if we have an unitary council, would it be based in Dover(unlikely) and so
decisions made become even more remote.
Iv studied other unitary councils and one I visited both before it became unitary, and after showed me how remote decisions become.
With unitaries comes probably less councillors probably
covering even bigger wards.
Also sadly when unitaries came up before political parties were looking how best they could remain in control rather than whats best for the electorate(me and you)
That said, I understand its
over 10 years away even if Dover were to go for it, which dont think they will.
Howard not sure if your posting is one of support for unitaries but im still to be convinced - keith
i like to think i am a realist, i dislike the idea of unitary authorities
but i see them as inevitable, whatever name they go under.
take a butchers at pats comments about where our money goes at
present.
nearly three quarters of our council tax goes into a big pot at maidstone.
town and parish councils are usually run by people that live on the manor, that is why they are better qualified to have a bigger budget
and spend it on their patch.
the last few days are evidence of this, gritting is done by KCC who just look at a map.
a local person would know the importance of gritting certain roads that are no go in the snow or allow buses to
run a service.
going off on a tangent, a local councillor would see the value of a parkie in pencester gardens, making sure that the play area is used by those it is intended for, stopping illegal fishing, throwing out the anti social
element etc etc.
at present all these vital decisions are ma.de by people who live in deal, st margarets or berlin(sorry paul w).
there are so many issues, i have discused the issue of planning permission with our local town
councillor, where recommendations are made by people who know and live in the area and are overturned up at the fort.
- HOWARD
I do understand where your
coming from, but not realy sure in the bigger picture unitaries would help, in fact it would make things worse in many cases.
On the question of planning decisions having been there and spoken at many planning committees and
posted on here, we need a positive planning dept, giving all the reasons why we can do things rather than why we cant, in previous subjects i have explained how this is not the case.
THERE does need to be a decision maker but
often the planning dept had views from the town councils were ignored.
or played lip service to.
On the question of councils iv said on here before 3 is to many and when the town council was formed people thought either the
District or county would go, and work passed down to a more local level
- Indeed, Howard, I remember saying on this Forum not so long ago that if
you live in Dover, work in Dover, shop in Dover, your kids go to school in Dover etc., then it follows that you know what its needs are. Having someone in authority who lives in Dover making vital decisions would be of great benefit to
all Dovorians but hey you cant have it all, more's the pity!
This great Historic town has been grossly neglected over the years, shame on all responsible and that includes central government. One parting thought though, can you
imagine this town not having the HS1 stopping here. It beggars belief that we had to make a case for the Shakespeare Tunnel work to be done, it should have been taken as read. So a huge thank you to Nigel (local man) for his stalwart
efforts there and its eventual success and of course to our MP Gwyn and all others who worked so hard to make it happen. - COLLETTa
hope your good, i had
during the snow a short trip to AFolkestone on the HS train no where near such elite company as yourself
but had to get to work.
yep Dover has and is being left behind, it has to change
but to do that you have change the
mind set of the officers at the District(not all) and looking at other postings subject also
OUR NIGEL - sorry Howard I missed your post,we get the agendas and the minuets
and the observers are any Cllrs both Red and Blue,Ben Bano Mick and Ann Smith and Gordon Cowan often go as well as Bernard Butcher and I believe even Roger has gone.
We also get any decision that has to be rushed thru without the
Council meeting these have to be signed by the Portfolio Holder and the Leader.Needless to say this did not happen.
Also the Council has just signed a new contract with Connaught for cleaning this could mean that if we have a contract
that Connaught are getting paid to clean the toilets that they have closed.Or the new contracts did not include the Maison Dieu Toilets and Buckland Bridge and that means the decision was taken a while ago.If they have signed them
recently that would mean the savings would be minimal as most of the costs would be opening/closing and cleaning and surely the Council would have to fulfill the contract - thanks for that john, so cabinet meetings are not the secret lodge style gatherings as portrayed.?
good point about the cleaning contract although the fuhrer mentioned something
about 3 year contracts maybe this would involve deploying them to other things.
guessing a bit here. - Dont forget me John .I go to keep my hand in as it were
.Cabinet meetings are not held behind closed doors only confidential items are barred from the public and Councillors like John and myself can attend .Howard we can not participate and can not vote which for someone like me is very
frustrating .I think sometimes its rather stage managed .Not when I took part . - The debate should go on, and as previously posted, this is bigger thsat public toilets
or Nigel Collor but about conservative cabinet members happy to make decisions without any form of consultation, we skate around this as much as you like, but thats the facts.
The cabinet system was not strongly opposed by thre
tories locally in fact cllr watkins pushed for a cabinet and mayor type system.
So lets get a bit honesty in this debate.
What realy worries me is the FACT that Mtr Collor has made what I presume hwe will call a brave
decision, I cant for the life of me understand why you would close toilets thus turning the general public against you, then deciding to blame the town council
The Town council appear to be acting very responsibly by finding out
all the facts before making any committment, as well as looking at the bigger picture.
Charlie boy must be crying in his beer watching his ambitions dissappear - Thanks Michael. That's probably the most stunning photo we've ever had here on DF!
- it is indeed a stunning picture, the
castle looks so imposing there in the centre. - Oh wow what a brillant picture shows just how much snow we did get, and to get such a good picture on a mobile phone.
- Ace photo. But is it really snow or did Amy Winehouse just sneeze?
- Nice photo Michael, you should consider
it for next years Christmas card, Great definition for a mobile, how many pixels just out of interest? - I have an ariel photo of the Castle that I use, but this is so much
more spectacular with the snow.
Have you thought of using it commercially or selling it to English Heritage ?
Well done Michael.
Roger - Amazing shot
and great to see it with all that snow. - Wow, well done Michael, what a fantastic picture, it really shows the scale of our beautiful castle ... did you get any others?
- YES ITS A LOVELY PICTURE
- Thats a really nice photo of Martin, the village that is, with Ye Old Lantern Inn in the
background. - Have added a few more now from the guys..very talented guys around here with cameras. Have more pictures also but not sure if it might make the page too big as
using the current pictures quite large. Although might squeeze another couple in.
Is there anyone out there who has a picture to match the ones shown...if so lets see it.
Send it to me at address
above. - The last photo above showing dover town under snow is wonderful. With the snow on the buildings it is much easier to pick them out. I was suprised by the
"downtown" of dover, it seems very empty. From the DTIZ ( can we call it that still as nothing has happened) to behind the college. It is also much easier to pick out the different valleys leading off the dour. Interesting to think
that this landscape was created by rivers from melting ice and snow. - Have added another one just now since your comment Handy Andy, hope you are enjoying the snow
filled pictures of your home town, viewed from all the way over there in Gascony. We may be able to talk Michael Gough into getting more helicopter shots for us in due course.
The snow has dispersed today somewhat as it has been
raining, but its hanging on grimly in isolated corners.
The Dover Mercury had a very good spread of snow pictures of the area in their paper today...pages of them, and they were very good to see...(ahem! I think we still had the
edge though on Doverforum, but not by much!) - Very Nice picture PaulB, the imprints in the snow look as though a herd of reindeer has just past along the seafront,
the lady in red? - I really love the boat scene on Deal Beach, the contrast of the sky, snow, sea and boat is incredible. I would love this as a print on the wall !
- I agree with you there Jane - I have many prints of dover and a super picture of a boat on deal beach actually facing my desk as I type but the boat picture
here is superb. - Thanks for the comments guys, glad the pictures were liked and its always good to see the photo guys receiving some good comments for the efforts
they make going out there, getting the pictures, and getting them to us. The previous classic spread has now moved into the ALL RECENT FEATURES section for archival keeping and people can see them there any
time. - thanks to everyone that has sent in pics of the snow, no doubt we shall get another dose before winter ends.
- Agree howard some brillant pictures of our artic weather hard to believe it has all gone even here on top of the hill.
- I read this morning when I opened up AOL, that the weather man think these arctic conditions could last till March/April.
Let's hope our little corner of England
escapes it.
Roger - do you really have much faith in the long range weather forecasts from the met office roger?
what about the red hot summer we were
supposed to have last year? - HOWARD
You may laugh at this but BBC said there will be snow at 8pm recently in our area, and dead on 8pm it started
snowing!!!! - More great picture`s there Paul, and as for that first one, I`ve never seen the cliff`s looking so white. Blank out the surrounding area with your hands, and they
look like an iceberg. - Sorry, ref iceberg, the second one not the first one. (Below).
- I'd never seen them look
quite like that either Colin. Ive seen them with snow over the years since I came here but never quite like that. Did someone mention a new ice age?
But yes with regard the weather forecasters. They promised us a balmy barbecue
summer but we had the most rainfall in something like 40 yerars, flood and pestilence. They also promised a mild winter...and its the worsts for 30 years, so something has gone askew at the Meteoroligical offices ( That spellin' dont
look right!) - No Howard, I do not have a lot of confidence in long-range weather forecasts. As already stated their forecasts don't match reality.
Just
put met. office PaulB - it's easier too !
Roger - Looking at the
comments on the members' page it seems that you are more in need of a sanitary authority than a unitary authority........................ - Sanity too eh ?
Roger - The picture above is of the Norman Spirit which can whisk you to Boulogne in 1 hour and 45 minutes, carrying quite a payload, but will this route
still be as attractive without that striking seacat. The seacat was a photographers dream and excitingly fast. I enjoyed my trip on it in high sun weather when I stayed in Boulogne for a few days last year. What it was like in rough
weather I dont know...I suspect rocky and thats probably why it all changed after four months.
However the new ferry is efficient and does the job. I see it everyday plying too and fro to Bouolgne and I will certainly use
it....keen as I am to see this route survive. Even if you go no further than Boulogne its good to sample that French dining out style for a short while.
Roger will probably know....I wonder if this new route has brought in many
visitors to Dover from that part of France? I know many go the other way, but how many are coming this way? - I'll try and find out
Paul.
Roger - Just to let you know I have done alot of work on that boat over the years welding etc,all my welding was tested so it is safe to go on, it is a very
nice ship to go on lots of room to,we will be going on her later in the year we love Boulogne. - Well done in advance with that Roger, it would certainly be
interesting to find out if there is good volume of French traffic coming over...rather than say just Brits returning.
Yes it looks a nice ship Vic, will be trying it myself too in a few months when the weather picks up, never been
on that one. - Maybe, but maybe not PaulB - it was the P&O Aquitaine a few years ago !
- And of course Oostende Lines before that !
www.doverferryphotos.co.uk/pastandpresent/filip.htm - Ah of course so it was Paul...The Aquitane, I had
forgotten that. Its amazing what a bit of sprucing up will do and some new exciting paintwork...and of course we mustnt forget Vic's welding!
But yes Vic is right, Boulogne is certainly worth a visit...so near yet so very
different. - She is geting on in years now but when it first came out she was the only ship out of Dover that had 100% safety and that was done by lloyds yes my
welding was part of that, but I was not the only welder working on her at that time. - interesting stuff about stronger links between us and calais, we are both
fairly reliant on each other, if further co-operation is helpful in getting some funding from the european kitty all well and good. - I would just like to add to
this that the Dover Town Council have been doing this for some years now even when I was on the D.T.C. we was going over to talk to them and they would also come over here and Mr Webb done alot of work to bring this around because he can
talk french as well as he can English and that was a great help. - A lot of that is to do with the Town Twinning Vic and it is very true that Mike Webb has met the Mayor and
other offcials there on more than one occasion and enhanced relationships between the two Towns. - I think the town twinning idea is certainly worthwhile but I think its
basically more of an 'entante cordiale' thing than anything else, as I understand it, although I might be wrong. The Paul Watkins initiative above seems to have more of an eye on economic benefits, and certainly an eye on the benefits
Dover might derive from perhaps a wealthier neighbour. However ..with regard to the tourism aspect though, luring the French visitor in this direction seems to be a tad harder than it is the other way around. Us Brits flock in their
direction much more easily. Perhaps we are just a nation of nomads and cant stay still. - The French used to come over here in the seventies .Hoads of them .Plus
lots of school children - i was told that a lot of belgian folk used to visit and clear the shelves of quality street and roses at what is now somerfields/the co-op.
- Howard, the Belgians used to buy loads of wall paper as well.
Sue, I remember the school kids well, coach loads of them on the Hovercraft.
I remember taking
over legs of lamb for the baggage men in Boulogne. We would do a couple of trips over in the morning and they would give me their orders and I would go up to Frosts, the butchers in my lunch hour, buy the gigots and take them over in the
afternoon. It was probably illegal, I don't know.
I never made anything out of it because they used to look after me when I did day trips to Boulogne. - It is
a tad harder to convince the French in Boulogne (or Calais) to come here, but because the ratio is approximately 80/20 on originating traffic, there's plenty of room for improving the number of visitors - we need to focus on what good
things Dover has and despite many adverse comments, we do have a lot of good things here. - Well stale mate .If DTC are not going for option 3 .Paul I keep on saying some of
us pay twice anyway .What I can not ascertain from your article did the public give the DTC the yes to take on the toilets?Yes they want them open but who did they expect to foot the bill .
I was very dismayed that the notes from DDC
were not handed out until the end .I had been in conversation with the Leader and he and I did give some thought to the matter .
- I too was a bit surprised that the
message from DDC was not handed out until the end. It would have been helpful to have the figures during the meeting so that Cllr Hannent didn't need to keep reading them out.
Whatever the outcome of this, as a PR exercise the
DDC have shot themselves in both feet and will not come out of it smelling of roses. Their action has been crass in the extreme. Removing the equipment from Buckland Bridge is petty, bloody minded and corporate vandalism. It just
makes it more expensive for whoever takes it over. - Thanks for the double confirmation of that Terry .Roger had already said the figures were not given out prior to
the meeting .It is always difficult to follow a meeting if you donot have information to refer to .Did the DTC have a slide show explaing the options because not everyone but some prefer to see things visually
I agree re the removal
of the equipment and as I said on another part of the forum .I shall make my views known at Full Council
So why are they not opening the toilets ??I shall be emailing in a minute . .
. - Sue just to try and answer your question of a few posts back
"did the public give the go ahead for DTC to take on the toilets"
Well as I understand it, there isnt an
official answer to that one as yet . The DTC had this meeting to gauge public response. They will assess now, I assume, the information they received back last night and calculate how best to proceed. But as was clear last night...from a
PR point of view the DDC have shot themselves in both feet bigtime, as Terry has said. Their actions with these closures have been extremely unpopular....
Somebody from the floor made an excellent point re the tourists...they
arrive here after long journeys on coaches and so forth, many elderly, the first thing they want is a loo. Imagine them, as one chap with an eye on tourism said, imagine them arriving after such a journey...reaching the loo door only to
see notices on same saying they are closed! Not good! - No is the answer to that at no time was any vote taken,I did say at that meeting that I would like them to
take them over because I know that the town council would do a much better job of doing it,but it would have to have the right funding,if i am right in what I am saying that the D,D,C, just need the cash from the town council but would
keep hold of the keys to them and run them from their office and not the D.T.C. office,and the D.T.C. are saying they can not do that at this time and i agree with that.But there is now talk that the Town council might build new one on
ground they own and that is a way forward,but there is noway that I can see that this time the looes open again over night ,I feel the only way that can happen is if the D.D.C.open them up again till they have a agreement with the
D,T,C. - I was told by Roger Walton at last nights scruity meeting that nothing had been taken out of Buckland Bridge,today in the paper it says a spokesman said it
has,I am fed up at being lied too by this Council,as a Councillor I expect honest answers,I and you are not getting them about the toilets.I wasn't going to post on here about the toilets I was going to let you read Graham Tuthill's
report from last nights DDC meeting,so that you get a netural report,by this takes the biscuit.
I was also 'told off' by Paul Watkins for stiring things up on here,you have a right to be told what DDC are doing and not telling
you.Wait until you find out that the next thing to go will be the green spaces,parks,gardens and sports fields,and I won't even go into the waste thats starts in October.
- strong stuff john, you are clearly annoyed.
two questions here.
who is roger walton?
was the spokesman from DDC? - I dont usually name
officers how ever as John has mentioned Mr Walton I can tell you he is the Head of Leisure.Property@Waste Management .Cllr Collor works with him on Property services.
Yes John I was told that all equipment has gone fromBuckland Bridge
Toilets,however all that has been removed from Maison Dieu are the handdryers . ,I think they were playing it safe incase a swift decision was made .Seems to me this will drag on .I keep asking for them to be reopened
Vic as usual
has got it clouded as DDC have a contract which covers many toilets etc and DTC would just paty for the ones they agree to take over .Its cheaoer this way Perhaps DTC could buid new ones well done they can raise the money through the
precept ... - Sue I did not get it clouded as you put it.I was at the meeting again with you I have no more to say about it Thank you.but please come over for a cup of tea in the
morning and we will have a chat about it.And you can use our bathroom if you wish. - Was really good that the Town Council Chamber was full lastnight for the
meeting,and from the councils view it was quite clear what you the public were telling us.
it is now for us to look into how we go forward with this and the other issues that were discussed so thank you those of you who turned up it
makes our job at Dover Town Council a whole lot easier, perhaps District should take a leaf out of our book.
- Without a shadow of doubt the meeting was packed, and those present have no doubt what so ever who is to be blamed for this disaster of a decision.
Now that the officer has been named -who clearly stated it was NIGEL and
NIGEL ALONE who signed the papers(remember if he disagreed he only had to say NO not signing them)
I do look forward to Sue's contribution at full council in whitfield on the administrations failure to keep the toilets
open.
The town council has been up front on this one, considering;
1;What can they afford to do
2; Getting full costs before making any decisions
3; What projects they want to prioritise
4; liabilities of
taking on toilets
5; public will be consulted
The District on the other hand comes out with all the negatives;
1; Did nt consult public or even tell anyone just closed toilets
2; Clearly the District council
leading administration no longer believes
in democracy, or what you or I think
3; The leader has not answered my view on the cabinet to the extent
to make changes back to the committee structure so must be
happy
to continue with this UNDEMOCRATIC system
4; Ruined charlies chances of getting Gwyn out
Theres so much more in the way of decisions to be made thankyou Doverforum for your coverage
- Yes Keith I shall be making my views made known .If it gets political then I shall not enter a bear fight .I shall be looking for straight answers and to the decision making of the
council .Indeed I have just written a long email to the Chief Excutive and Management team to request that the toilets be reopened whilst negotations with the DTC are being carried out
I do have one problem though how can a
councillor have loyalty to two councils ..? - susan
that is something that has always bothered me.we are represented by 3 councils, there are times when they clash on certain
issues.
how does a councillor that serves on more than one decide where their loyalty lies? - Have added a more interesting picture of the Norman Spirit now
which shows it in a better light as the ship seems to have plenty of fans. Taken on a gloomy day after an equally gloomy crossing from Boulogne...it has just passed into the harbour through the western entrance.
Yes the question
of serving on two councils has been highlighted more than ever by the current toilet furore. When people speaking from the floor the other night confused the two councils in some cases, they were told in no uncertain terms, just what
council did what. Which is fair enough. The DTC were very keen to point out that they have a different role than DDC..which again is fair enough as some people do get confused.
But then looking at it from a different perspective,
perhaps councillors serving on more than one council are just trying ever more harder to do their bit for Dover.
Normally multi council activity seems to work okay, KCC, DDC, DTC, and so on but over the toilet issue the
difficulties in some situations were apparent. However if you were a councillor in the DDC Cabinet you would have difficulty multi-tasking. - There was too much
obfuscation, red-herrings and some untruths on Wednesday.
At the end of the day, we all want the toilets open; if the Town Council were/are happy to pay for the cleaning contract that is currently being paid for by DDC (but just
for the toilets they would take over) the toilets would be open by now.
This would give both DDC and DTC time to negotiate (if they wished to) to take over the maintenance as well, or even the ownership of the toilets.
I
understand from Roger Walton that ONLY waste bins and a couple of other similar items have been taken out of the toilets; there has been NO removal of any sanitary-ware at all.
I think it is mischevious at the least, to accuse
the Head of DDC's Property, Leisure and Waste Management of lying.
There has been much distortion of the truth and I say once again (this must be a hundred times) if DDC are not paying the cleaning contract, they won't be
charging DDC residents for it either - that will be done by the Town Council, so on the toilet front, we keep the service and don't pay any more for it.
Roger - Roger
you are doing exactly what you accuse others of - sorry, DTC has never had that put to them- heaven knows what you have been told. - I only got a copy of the blank contract on wednesday!!
I am totally fed up
with rumour. It stops the productive work. Lets allow proper correspondence and negotiation to take place between the parties. If you want to meet and discuss this I am available when you wish. The only obfuscation is coming from
outside of the DTC offices and it isn't helpful - both you and Sue seem to be given a lot of wrong information. Why I don't know... - what i would like to know is when DDC
tried to lumber, i mean, gift the toilets to DTC.
this is a very important question, if it has been a long time then both sides have to hold their hands up in apology, that they have not managed to reach an agreement acceptable to
both sides.
talk of democratic process means nothing to people standing cross legged looking for a facility, because of over lengthy discussions. - HOWARD
You are correct talks should be finalised as early as possible.
But whilst people may not be concerned about the democratic process, put that another way to members of the public and they would be more
interested.
Is it right that 1 person should be allowed to CLOSE your toilets?
without consultation, or even imput from the other 44 cllrs>?
should that cllr be allowed to close the toliets without consultation with you
the public, whilst talks were ongoing
theres plenty more - i doubt if most people care a jot who is responsible for the closures keith.
stop people in the
street and give them a list of names that are town and district councillors and ask them to rearrange those names into town and district, then see what people really know and care.
i remember john goodwin saying on this forum many
moons ago that he doubts if a very large number of his constituents know of him, and he is very active in his ward. - Keith - Why do you keep insisting it was one Councillor who was responsible for closing the toilets, when you actually know it was
a collective Cabinet decision ?
Roger - roger
Unless it has been misquoted on here, it has been made clear the person who signed the paper to close the toilets
was no other than NIGEL COLLOR did not the officer clearly state this?
This never went before ANY cabinet meeting, therefore if your saying this was a collective cabinet decision they must have met in secret, which is just as
worrying as NIGEL alone making the decision. - Have you got documentary evidence to support your continuing claim against Nigel Collor then Keith, or are
you basing your entire argument on hearsay and internet gossip? - Howard
In answer to your post two below this, the first I and other councillors knew about this toilet
situation, was when notification from DDC, came to the finance committee on the 11th November, the gun was pointed, it was then referred to Full Council
Sheila - Phil
nobody has any proof that Nigel DIDNT close them...there has been no statement from him forthcoming. He is the Cabinet Portfolio holder for the loos, so if he didnt close them who did?
The DOVER EXPRESS (see page 5 this week)
asked DDC for the minutes of this so called cabinet decision.. and there arent any!!
The DDC issued a statement to the Dover EXpress..
"...the decision was taken by the portfolio holder and officers"
therefore the
elected representative responsible according to the DDC itself... is Nigel..unless I'm missing something on the maths here.
Nigel's best action now, as is the case with any media storm is to issue a statement..all politicians do
it..after having affairs, clangers, and so on.
He can say one of the following
1. I did it and I made a mistake
2. I did because I thought it was the right thing to do to save ratepayer money
3. I didnt do it.
The
public will be receptive to any of those because above all they prefer communication. They dont mind mistakes, we all make em. If he issues the statement on here its fine..I can do it if he sends to me direct...then the newspapers will
pick it up from here so its easier for everyone.
You might remember though initially it was not Keef calling for Nigels head but Conservative Sue N herself called for his resignation as did others..which made it onto the Mercury
website and into The Mercury newspaper. There has been a shift in some opinion but is this because of behind the scene lobbying? - Phil
I take no joy in
pointing out how undemocratc this District council is, and can only add to Paulb in his comments below, this could have been cleared up a long time ago with a smple statement by Nigel.
I have tried to avoid the resignation calls
thats for his party friends like Sue to call for if thats her wish.
I have taken the line from the beginning that this was an undemocratic decision, and we can attempt to defend Nigel if we want to paper over the cracks, but it
wont go away.
I do hope Nigel will take up Paulb's generous offer and clear up this mess with a statement.
- two points here.
i think paul is right in
saying that a simple statement might bring an end to the matter.
the public do accept that the hierarchy make wrong decisions sometimes. obfu,ofbu,oufb,ufbo, clamming up just makes things worse,
secondly, keith, your continual
abuse of the same individual may have a negative effect on other local figures posting.
would you have liked it in your days as a councillor? - Ok I wasn't
going to post on this as I wanted you to read the Mercury so that I didn't put a political slant on it.At the Scruity meeting last Wednesday in attendance were several officers,Cllr Paul Watkins,Cllr Nigel Coller,and the committee is
made up by 6Con 3Lab and 1Lib.
When asked who made the decision,The officer Mr Walton said he made an operational decision,when pushed he then said that he made the decision after talks with the Portfolio holder (Cllr Coller) and
others.
It was asked why there were no papers that we could trace this decision,we were told that these people could make this decision without coming to Cabinet or Council,Cllr Watkins said that he had let the press know in October
that hard decisions had to be made.
When asked why were Maison Dieu toilets were closed was it to teach Dover Town Council a lesson,I was told No it was on useage,and that Stem brook toilets were more central.
The next question I
asked was on the contract with Connaught which I have covered elsewhere.
I asked if it was true that any of the Sanitaryware had been removed,I was told by the officer No!
I also asked if the Council had thought about Public
Accessibility Toilets a question asked in a question Cllr Meredith,the answer was yes they had thought about them.
Cllr Richardson(Con) came up with a resolution about closer working with all Parties including Dover Town Council,and
that the Council regetted the way that Consultation had gone.
This Question and answer session went on for over an hour so these are only some of the points I raised.The meeting was heated at times and Cllr Cowan and Cllr Watkins were
both passionate in there thoughts and actions.The full Council meting is on Wednesday and I want to keep my powder dry for the motion,but I can say that this matter is not finished yet. - HOWARD
nO, DON'T SHARE YOUR views, and yep in my 27 years orso I was in the hot seat and certainly one local paper took it that i was to be ridiculed by them for many of those years, sadly it is part of being a cllr i
suppose.
You also mention my gong for one person, and you can see from John's postin of the scrutiny c/ttee that it was in fact NIGEL and Nigel alone, all iv stated is that the cabinet system is one that is UNDEMOCRATIC and it
looks like Mr Watkins is happy to continue with this UNDEMOCRATIC decision making, so we sare to see a lot more of decisions like the toilets.
Two things would have been nice to have happened after NIGEL closed the
toilets;
1; Nigel could have tried to justify his decision on here
2; Mr Watkins could have taken up my challenge to lobby the
Govt to do away with this UNDEMOCRATIC cabinet system - i am trying to follow your logic here keith.
you say that you were hammered by a local organ for 27 years and did not like it, you then go on to hound an individual on here
relentlessly.
i suppose that bullying begats further bullying. - HOWARD
Not going to carry on this back and forth posting(and by the way you ignored me
getting off folkestone bus at pencester)
You are at the dizzy heights of Ass. Editor, and i'V hounded no one, purely ponted out as many others have (including his own party friends, who have said a lot more than me)
- Very nice picture.Do they have toilets ?.If so people will be in there and probably not buy anything
- I
look forward to shopping there - they are the nearest I have to a favourite, as I dont like supermarkets generally.
Concerned about the parking as it was busy enough getting pet stuff there on Saturday before they opened. - I went to Morrisons this morning, it was packed with shoppers looking for products at Bargain prices, there were queues for the butchers, bakers and fishmongers and I will
definitely be a paying future visit to the delicatessen soon.
- Agree there David. It's the best of the everyday supermarkets.
I'll use the
fishcounter and they have a good variety of tins. Other than that the rest of my money will still go to the locals! - The first look inside the doors of Morrisons this morning was a
bright clean and colourfull store, freindly faces greeted us.
Even managed to get the Boss PaulB to take a walk around the well stacked shelfs to see the goods on offer.
All I can say is I will be going back, and I hope it gives
the store on top of the hill a run for its money.
As you can plainly see I'm a Morrisons fan. - whilst we celebrate the opening of this very popular store, we must
spare a thought for our very own posh barry here.
the credit crunch has reduced him to doing his own shopping.
twas not long ago that one of his faithful servants would have gladly slept outside all night in the freezing cold
to get the best pick of the produce for his master. - yes Sue they do have toilets very nice clean ones and they are open. On the whole the shop was very pleasing
nice fruit and veg bread as always superb will be popping in on a regular basis for a healthy lunch option, there salad pots looked really good,it will save me a trip to Canterbury. - saw your old man today in town humphy, he was raving about the bread there too.
- Just back from a quick shop trip to Somerfields and you cant help drawing
comparisons to the all new, all singing, all dancing, Morrisons. Somerfield is a sad experience in comparison, no fellgood factor ambience at all, no warmglow lighting, and 1 person on the tills at 9am, you can get your shopping and then
go outside and slit your wrists!
Although they are fighting back with some price reductions, a tin of their Branston Beans is 82p which must be something of a world record...not long to go now before we have the first £1 tin of
beans. Who said there is no inflation!
The new movements in retail must also beg the question if ASDA will bother with their proposed new development now at all. The diminishing slice of the market for a giant like Asda must make
it less appealing as a prospect now. Are we to be stuck with inner delapidation now for ever? as there seems no prospect of any movement out of the black hole without ASDA's
power. - Morrisons are doing some very genuine deals which are great value for money but be careful as some retail giants are turning Bogof into rip-off. Asda is
currently offering two packs of sausages for just £3 - but the packs cost only £1 each and at Tesco online Rachel's Organic 'Little Rachels' Yogurts are normally £1.49 each but are offered at two for £3 - 2p more. So the next time you
see a 'three for £2' deal in the supermarket, take a while to do the maths! - i ventured into morrisons this morning, too big a shop for me.
far
too many people, no doubt the novelty will wear off soon.
having said that, the range had no limits, the fishmongers, butchers, and bakery looked superb.
re; pauls post, yes, the store opposite the last bogs looks pretty
dire in comparison, no, i still believe that asda will come, they have lodged money here.
in my view both asda and morrison being at opposite ends of town can both do well, as for the shop on the hill, oh dear.
why would anyone
travel to whitfield from the town with so much in the way of goodies available here?
bern will love this post - just checked out that harbour board statement,
all very general and vague.
blues chas makes a very good point about the pensions of staff and protection of our borders. - Howard it appears to be the case
that a government initiative/report from Under Secretary of State for Transport, Paul Clark, a while back, in july of last year in fact, urged Ports to look at alternative ways of funding...
"there may be advantages in some cases
in adopting alternative forms of ownership"
says Mr Clark. This is why Charlie's statement above directly blames Gordon Brown.
Of course that positioning could be seen to offer the green light to a sell off and may indeed
have led to the current situation. There is much more to the document but for the moment I am having some technical problems of my own making and am having difficulty reproducing it.
But I would suspect the Conservatives would
like to make hay with this item. Am hoping to hear from Gwyn later to see his position. - Thank you I am home again I will be posting on the D.H.B and all the rest
at some point but can no sit down long at this time I would just like to than you all for cards and phonecalls again will post later on about it and Keith for coming at night all that way just to see me,and Mrs M Webb for bring my wife
over at times thank you all. - paul
i posted before gwyn had his statement issued on here.
the issue now seems very different, sounds like a lot of
electioneering will be done in this issue. - I had to smile at Gwyns comments. Of course he can say that the Port wont be privatised under Labour's (and his)
jurisdiction but only because he (and they) will be thrown out at the election.
It is his Government that gave the green light to privatisation and it is his Government that has created the massive debt problem that requires a
fire-sale of assets to help towards solving. His own Government has said it is going to raise £billions in a fire sale to do this.
He can bluster around all he likes, but Labour, if they remained in office, will sell the Port.
Full stop.
I speak as someone in favour of privatisation and on this issue I have to disagree with Charlie. I hope the Conservatives will take Labour's lead, though hopefully not their timing, that will not result in a good
result for the taxpayer (or Dover).
What we need is an MP who has sufficient financial experience and political clout to get the best deal for Dover.
Charlie has that ability and while I understand his determination to
oppose the sale, I hope he will not be so 'one-track' in opposing it that it will prevent him from negotiating a good deal for DHB pensioners, employees and the local community. - Barry, the thing I really can't understand is why the Hell Gwyn is standing.
Born in 1943 he's now of pensionable age. As well as the OAP, he will be eligible for 12/40
of his salary of C.£65,000 which works out as almost £20,000 for life (index linked) + a lump sum of C.£60,000.
He is leaving Charlie an open goal to shoot at since Charlie will blame Gwyn personally for all the problems of the
past years + will now accuse him of trying to flog of the Harbour Board.
IMHO it was a bad call Gwyn. - good question bob, i have wondered the same.
with the
things that our barry says about him he must have to cry himself to sleep every night.
i can only think that it is just his committment to his constituents and wanting to do the very best he can for dover. - Howard, was going to reply but since I am on the second bottle of Champagne at Frost Villas hearing that the DHB are heading for privitization I shall leave it until the
morning.
My only questions are where can I invest and are they offering discount berthing for shareholders who happen to own yachts..... - bob
have a word
with posh barry on our members page, right sort of chap, he will be able to recommend an appropriate brokerage that would be able to attend to your needs.
if you require something at the very top of the range then "loadsamoney"
barry will make the necessary arrangements for a small fee. - Howard, err I actually have a yacht already.... Seriously.
- in that case, next time you go across, get us a few crates of "john smiths" and 3000 bensons.
nothing dodgy, they are suggested limits. - Many of our readers will have heard about The Churchill Hotel closing its doors today. It does seem a great shame that we open up some new splendid enterprise like
Morrisons and a traditional landmark like The Churchill closes within days. Its like the town is engaged in some oddball tango of death and demise. One step forward two steps back, two steps forward one step back...shuffle shuffle ebb
and flow.
There is a thread of comments on The Churchill in our Members Club forum. Everyone is sad about such news. I was a regular customer to the restaurant and bar but then again perhaps not regular enough in recent
times.
*************
The Port situation is another oddball. Not so long ago it was Conservative Policy to sell the port off, at the last General Election in fact, but now all has changed there. The Tories found it was
immensely unpopular last time round with Joe Public, so have listened.
MP Gwyn Prosser also doesnt want to see it privatised...but will it be sold off anyway by a government in a deep recession desperate to raise revenue. As we
see in the quotes above, Gwyn says he cannot see this happening under Labour.
Both sides realise it could be the kiss of death at the polls. Will be interesting to see it all
unfurl. - We at U.k.i.p. Are the same today as we have always been NO SELL OFF OF THE PORT OF DOVER.This is for our headoffice today and as you all know I have
saying that now for some years.We are going to hold a public meeting about that and all the others as well ,just let have a day or two to get back up on my feet.Thank you all Vic Matcham
- take your time vic. you are not the spring chicken that you think you are, us older citizens need time to recover properly.
the election is still some time off.
patience
is the key. - Welcome home Vic but please take it easy, I had the same operation two years ago but it went wrong and got infected and it was months before I was back
to normal and it is still not right now. Will you be going to Buckland for physio as I did ?.
Howard, I see you have a taste for John Smiths. Try a lunch time pint in the Funky Monkey at 99 pence it is a bargain. Don't let the
name put you off it is not a bad pub. - Thank you both for that,I have been told the same by my wife and family,but I have alot to do next week I will be holding a
meeting about the public meeting I would like to go ahead with,D.H.B. the LOOS and our HOSPITAL ,and I hope to have a full house to with that meeting.This will not be about U.K.I.P.but just about the above. - oh i am so in love with the new morrisons store in town. i visited last night it really has the wow factor.
- Nice pic of the lovely Nazaneen Ghaffar on the homepage, Paul. I'm a bit of a fan. Apparently she speaks highly of me too!
- Haven't been to the new Morrisons yet, but plan to pop in next week. looks great. Good news for the town. On another note, this time bad news, anyone got any ideas what's
going to become of the defunct Churchill Hotel (aka The White Cliffs Hotel, in old money)? - Hellooo Andy - glad you have a fan there in Nazaneen. A wise choice on her
behalf clearly ...but be careful she just isnt after your Doverforum membership!! lol !
Welcome Melissa. Yes Morrisons is certainly a feelgood store. I havent manage to do any shopping in there as yet but was there with notebook
and camera on Opening Day to get the pictures and story. But yes will certainly go back. They have a very interesting range of stuff. - Thankyou Paul. x
- Melissa could not agree more love the shop was in there earlier this evening and it was busy busy, don't worry we will be getting PaulB himself
shopping basket and all around there real soon.LOL!!! - Jan any update if Paul has yet been to our fave store yet?
- £.2135 seems a lot to be raised by one group.
especially in these financially challenged times, great to hear that hayley is now at high
school. - I agree Howard, it's an excellant sum.
Congratulations to DCAL.
Good Luck to Hayley
Roger
- Howard Just to confirm. The total raised is over the entire year, and is broken down as
follows
£1000 from Our carnival day raffle plus public donations
£1135 From Our Bank Holiday Walk To Brighton which included collecting on route and public donations.
The Girls Are very proud and rightly so of the
effort they have made. It is all about giving something back, and if we can help Hayley and the only other Progeria sufferer in the Uk Ashanti then it is a job well done. I salute all of the girls for their hard work
. - Well Done to DCAL and the girls on raising monies for such a worthy cause.
- Yes well done Mandi and all the
DCAL girls,looking forward to them helping with the raffle at the H4H show Dover's got Young Talent on March 20th at Dover Town Hall 7pm(plug) - Charlie Elphicke is conducting a
survey on the Port privatisation and has the latest info.
Fill in the survey here: you will need to cut and paste the web address as this wont take web addresses as URLs
www.elphicke.com/ - surely barryw that could have been kept to the barryw blog page?
- election time getting near keith, gloves are
off, no holds barred.
cannot think of any more cliches for the moment. - Thats not a blog Keith.
- 64! Never! We really had a great evening helping 'Big Dave' match a Beatle's single lol! A nice venue and I for one will be sampling the delights of the Rajmahal restaurant in the near future, very enjoyable!
- Yes Barry W-S a very enjoyable
venue and one to sample again...Im very new to the venue but other Dovorians clearly know its secret, as the place was doing very good business. This is one of the problems these days..what with the recession and so on, going along to a
place and finding it empty, it doesnt half clip your wings from an enjoyment point of view.
There is certainly now a wide range of restaurants in Dover offering quite a variety to suit every tastebud...but is there enough
customers to go round? - A very enjoyable evening indeed, good to see everyone and wish David a Happy Birthday, plus of course, the benefit of finding a really
good restaurant.
Thank you David !
Jean and I will be going back again soon.
Roger - The D Hannent Birthday/RajMahal feature has now moved into the
All Recent Features section.
Yesterday ColetteB and myself met Charlie Elphicke over at Pitman Training and the result is the editorial item above. As we mentioned above, Pitmans is one of Dover's quiet success stories and in
this day and age with jobs scarce you really have to be as trained up as much as possible in order to get noticed. Its always best for your own sake to be in a competitive position skillwise when attending interviews. Many more are aware
of this now...with so many people chasing every single job on offer. - good picture there.
interesting point about retraining, we live in an age where
people find their career has to take a different path.
good to see charlie in dover too. - Paula Elliott, Pitman Training
Dover
paula@pitmandover.co.uk
Thursday, 4 February 2010 - 11:11am
The message here is quite clear: the only thing worth investing in is yourself. There are great jobs for people who have lots to offer to employers.
Getting the right skills that employers need is down to the individual and they will find that it is money well spent. Pitman Training provides people with the skills that employers need. Try any course or diploma for free if you are not
sure. Spend a couple of hours on any of our courses and you'll soon see why this training is the best. Based on live applications (not similation), you are in control and can go at your own pace. www.pitmandover.co.uk or 01304 212500
- That's very true Paula, personally I too have taken IT courses in the past to improve my knowledge. You have to invest in yourself to gain further skills thus
adding more strings to one's bow so to speak. Its a very creditable way of improving your job prospects with future employers. Congratulations on your 10th anniversary in business. Pitman Training is certainly one of Dover's great
success stories.
- Congratulations indeed Paula - well done.
I do agree that a good education, even good re-training, is so important and is the key
to freedom: freedom from unemployment, freedom from poverty and freedom to work anywhere in the world with those skills you have gained.
It's a pity that more people don't realise this.
Roger
- I used Pitman training to get me started on web programming (database applications and stuff) about 8 years or so ago. It was the best thing I ever did! I'm STILL using those
skills to earn a fair chunk of my living as I still make commercial websites and e-commerce management sites. I cannot remember how much the course cost me but I think it was a couple of hundred quid or so, but those skills have earned
me thousands since and continue to be profitable. I remember Paula well, she was ace! If anyone ever needs real life proof that this service works then surely I'm all the proof you need, and of all the further education services out
there that I used over the years I found Paula to be one of the nicest and most accessible of the whole lot. Congratulations on your 10th anniversary Paula - YOU ROCK xxx :o) - i kept looking at the top two photos and felt that something was missing.
eventually the penny dropped - no roger - at all the ladies gatherings our silver tongued ladies man is usually to be seen.
spill the beans
colette, where did he hide? - Have now added a picture of MP Gwyn Prosser at the top as you can see, to commemorate the recent Holocaust Day. Gwyn is very active with
this. A sombre topic but worth reading..even just to remind ourselves of the horrors of the past.
You are right Howard, Roger is never too far away from any event, however I suspect it was just all women this time at the event
mentioned above....Roger was given a night off lol! As I understand it, the Ladies led by Michelle Sheppard ( Sheli is a member here of course) are trying to re-establish the Ladies Business Club or Group which used to flourish a year or
two back but has become sort of inactive.
Rick Im sure Paula will be pleased with your comment there. Yes I remember you doing those courses quite a few years ago now, and I remember at the time they came in very useful re
doverweb and so on. And as you say, you are still using what you learned there to this day in your business. Living proof of the advantages of learning. - Nice to
see the the picture's of the ladies networking evening although asked was unable to attend.
So well done Michelle for trying to bring this group back as we do not realize how many women are in business in our Town. - That's a good endorsement Rick, hope Paula, but perhaps more importantly, others who may need (re)training or just learn new skills, read it too.
Thank you Howard -
you old smoothy you. I can't attend all the functions that go on, but I do my best.
Roger - Just a follow-on from Jan's posting.
It is true that there
are many more Ladies in business those most people realise and I'm sure that getting together and networking in a relaxed environment, will help all their businesses.
Roger
- Firstly, I would like to say well done to Michelle Shephard for a very successful ladies evening, my colleagues and I thoroughly enjoyed ourselves and were made to feel very
welcome.
It is always good to meet new people and share experiences with them. I would strongly urge any local business ladies to contact Michelle to join us for this informal networking opportunity.
Secondly, Well done to
Paula, who just keeps going from strength to strength. Just goes to show that if you are passionate about your product, it pays dividends!
Lastly, My thoughts are with all of the families involved directly & indirectly with the
holocaust. I come from a Russian Jewish background , these past events still chill me to the bone....... - See also the discussion in the Members Club
about the Holocaust. Very interesting posts in there too. One or two of our general public readers have written to me recently, not knowing about the discussions going on in there, so always worth checking in there to see the input from
our various writers on the various topics. - Firstly thank you Colette for the lovely write up and pictures of our recent Business Ladies event and thanks also to
Jane for your comments.
This was a great start to the year for the Business Ladies Club with a great mix of Old faces and New and across a wide spectrum of Businesses.
My thanks to all the ladies who have sent in their
comments on this evening to me - always much appreciated.
In the meantime, I am working towards another evening in April and would welcome suggestions for Themes/Speakers etc...
If anyone would like to be added to the
mailing list for Business Ladies Events please email your details to me, address above.
Thanks again to all, see you in April if not before.
Michelle - You're very welcome Michelle, it was a splendid evening, looking forward to the next
one! - We will, all being technically well, have a facility on this page shortly whereby members of the public can
post responsible messages...so watch for that..coming soon!
ps: Doverforum Members can already post of course. - Is not the Norman Spirit, now to be named
the Ostend Spirit the old 'Prince Philip' that was originally built by the Belgians for this route? If so it makes you wonder why it is returning to a route where it did not succeed? - Local people will know more than me about that route Trevor but it strikes me that it has limped from one initiative to another there at Ramsgate without anyone making a real success of it. I think you are right about the ships
history.
However this weeks Inside Out programme on BBC ,which was shown the same day as this new deal/arrangement was announced - although the particular news item was clearly prepared earlier, but the programme showed how
enthusiastic the people lof Ramsgate are for this new ferry service. It seems Transeuropa had promised to sart up a number of times, but on each launch date failed to deliver. LD LINES will surely be better prepared to
deliver.
The town of Ramsgate itself is hugely receptive to any new ferry idea...its shops and businesses are struggling deeply because of the near location of the huge shopping complex at "Westward Cross" or whatever its
called. They are grasping out for new business and see a link with Ostend as a lifesaver. - Paully, see GB's reply. Then check DHB's original annoucement. It' All in the
words used.
Watty - To those who go on about 'personal attacks' you cant get more personal than Prosser's disgraceful attack on Charlie.
If Prosser
was genuine then he should welcome Charlie's stand in a united front against the privatisation. This shows how incincere Prosser is.
Well done Charlie for responding as you did to his attack.
I still say you are both
wrong on the privatisation issue though!!!
I would rather your united focus be on getting the best deal for Dover. - you can read into the prime ministers
comments whatever you like really.
these politicos certainly know how to play with words.
more importantly, how does peter hain manage to keep that permanent tan? - An open letter to all our potential parliamentary candidates and interested persons.
Privitatisation of our Port has emerged due to the question of borrowing for much
needed expansion.
Up until a couple of years ago Dover Harbour Board could and did borrow what ever they needed.Then the Treasury declared that DHB borrowings would have to be aggregated into the National debt.DHB fought this as much
as they could but eventually conceded last year.
Now DHB need funds to meet the demand of traffic growth but with the knowledge that which ever Party comes to power,there is no way that they would wish to see this increase on the
Public Sector borrowings and indeed they would be rather keen to lay there hands on DHB`s capital value whether DHB were willing or not.It would appear DHB are jumping before they are pushed.
What solutions are there to
enable expansion to happen and for Our Port to remain a Trust? - To clarify the remarks below about the ferries from Ramsgate:
The BBC "Inside Out"
programme was about a curious new company called Euroferries. They are proposing to run a fast craft from Ramsgate to Boulogne but every proposed start up date has passed without result. Two or three years ago they were proposing to run
a fast craft from Dover to Boulogne but nothing materialised from that either.
Trans Europa Ferries is an entirely different outfit. They have been running from Ramsgate to Ostend for a decade or so, using old ferries retired
from Dover and with Croatian crew. It is them who are linking up with LD.
The Norman Spirit, soon to be Ostend Spirit, was indeed built as the Prins Filip for the Belgian ferry company RMT. Originally ran on their very long
established Dover-Ostend route, then the company transferred to Ramsgate-Ostend to save money, then vanished altogether after 150 years. TEF was the cut price economy outfit which thereupon materialised. - i did not see the programe but euroferries do not seem to exist.
they had a front page for a website last time i lokked about a year ago, and promises are made to thanet
council that never materialise.
i heard that a chap called "ayres" was involved.
someone with that name featured on a previous "inside out" programme. - In today's Mercury there's a full page about a DHB open meeting in the Maison Dieu 4 March 18.00. Perhaps things might become clearer then.
- Well done Reg and
many thanks for your comment. You are the first one to use our new frontpage posting facility for non-members. There are no gremlins in the system, it all worked fine and dandy.
Thanks for clarifying that Ed. I got the Ramsgate
Ferries mixed up there for a moment. Hope all going good aboard the Maersk Dover. - Hello all my DF friends!!!!
can someone help me im stuck lol !!! i now live
at the top of bunkers hill and we are all snowed in!!! ive rung the HA and have been told that bunkers hill isnt on the grit list?! bunkers hill road apparently is and they are insisting it has been gritted when it hasnt!! then i was
told if bunkers hill road hasnt been gritted over the weekend could i call back on monday!
i need to get out!!! today not monday!!!
love as alwasy heidi ( mum of 5, now 7!) xx - Hullo Heidi,
I understand the grit bin was filled at the top of Bunkers Hill however children kept throwing it everywhere so I assume there isnt much left .
I think they are looking to
run the buses over Hillside soon .
If you can get to Hiilside or Bunkers Hill Road .you may see a bus .Wortrh ringing Stage CoacH TO CHECK - Howard:
As you say,
Euroferries does not exist except on paper. The registered address is a warden assisted block of flats in Kingston upon Thames.
John Paul Airs was responsible for a different outfit. He was the convicted fraudster with a Dover
address who was supposed to be setting up a company called Navmed. He obtained loans on the basis of fraudulent Banco do Brasil bonds to supposedly build a fleet of French BGV high speed craft. The BBC exposed him in another Inside Out
programme, tracking him down to a villa in Sardinia. - A poster called Q sent in an item re the port but we were unable to use it because of some of the
terminology, but if you would like to post a moderated version again Q we would be interested in your points. Thanks. - PaulB. Thank you for putting that superb picture of Paul`s
stunning shot on the front page. - Glad you like it Colin.Im sure many people will. Its a very unusual shot somehow...it captures something different, the mood, the feeling of
being there. Yes very good indeed, a well done to Paul Scotchie Wells. You do some good work yourself too Colin with your camera, so keep going. - absolute work of
art that top shot. - Thanks guys, it was a throw away shot when I saw it in the camera, but on screen it certainly shows how freezing it was !!
- Charlie will be in town today with a petition .Photo call for those who love the camera.I shall be home watching the rugby ,oh those lovely thighs .Just right for valentines
. - Sue - I can only agree about the rugby thighs............delicious!!
- The beach photo really is fabulous. There
is such an art to real photography. Throwaway shot or not - real skill involved there!! - The BNP have not moved to the mainstream PaulB, they are as nasty and bigoted as
ever.
I think though that you are over simplifying their stand on race.
It is reported that a Sikh is set to join them. Apparently he is someone who has lived here for decades and is concerned about excessive immigration.
Griffiths claims that many ethnic minority people share the concerns of many white people on this.
I think he has a point but that does not get away the the essentially undesirability of this group of extremists. - Ah yes BarryW I would agree that its an oversimplification on the colour issue but Im sure people will see that bit as tongue in cheek. I dont think any of us
for a moment can see the BNP be suddenly all welcoming to the ethnic races.
The problem though is this..after a little bit of time, after the dust settles, they could easily be regarded as mainstream by the voter who normally
doesnt show much of an interest in politics..other than perhaps at an Election. After all, we can now no longer call them a racist party, and as they are seen all clean limbed and red poppy wearing on the likes of the BBC flagship
QT..well you can see the danger Im sure. Acceptability could be just around the corner unless of course the very membership disperse now totally, as they dont have a race issue uniting front any
longer. - I am told that the B.N.P. will be standing in Dover,if they do that will mean more votes off the main two partys,I feel this race will go all the way to the post it
will not be a walkover for any party,still all to fight for. Vic Matcham U.K.I.P. - Just to let all know our U.K.I.P man Mr Nigel Farage
M.E.P. is on Question time on this Thursday at 2235hrs on B.B.C. one it is from Middlesbrough. - What has always puzzled me PaulB abut the
BBC's attitudes to the BNP is why they label them 'right wing'. Look at their policies on their website and you see them advocating big government, nationalisation and high taxation. These are classic left wing stances.
OK
they are rascist but rascism is not confined to the right, look at Stalin and his pogroms against the Jews. Then, of course, there are the Nazis, branded right wing they were nevertheless National Socialists and, yes, many of their
policies were much more attuned to Stalin than anyone else.
Left and right is about much more than racial attitudes.
The extremes of left and right are bedfellows. - 1800 local people signed my petition last week in the street in Dover about not selling the harbour, before I drove back up here to Birmingham through one of your Kentish
blizzards on Wednesday! More petition sheets are coming in. We are submitting it to the Sec of State for Transport via Gwyn Prosser but I have yet to establish good communications with him. Charlie Elphicke is keen on this petition too.
Note that the PMs reassurance in PM's Questions in the House last week was a bit less reassuring that might at first appear. he promised "no forced privatisation under Labour". What is forced privatisation exactly? It might not count
as being forced if the Harbour Board requests it, which is, bizarrely, the case. I might go to Witney to collect a similar petition to David Cameron to make sure Charlie Elphicke's boss is on side about this and that the harbour isn't
sold as a way to get funds to cut the deficit (which would be a very false economy in my view) Please sign the Downing Street e-petition entitled DoverHarbour (as one word). Thanks Rev Dr Dick Rodgers 0121 4760789 - Just to let you all know now I have been on the phone to Dr Rodgers abd have found out more and I am hoping to meet up with him soon. Vic
matcham - It was nice to meet you in Dover High Street last week when I gave you my card Dr Rodgers, thanks for your comment, it's good to
see that so many local people are passionate about holding on to the Port of Dover. I wish you well in your campaign. - Barry - you can only hold on to something that you have in the first place. I would love to buy some shares in the Port of Dover to hang on to....
- Yes, it will be great to see the minority of people with enough wealth to buy shares taking over and making decisions that will impact on the rest of the population. I wonder
how long it will take to reduce the policing in order to please shareholders? I can hardly wait I am so excited at the prospect of losing a centuries old trust created for the benefit of the local people.
- COOMBE VALLEY BRIDGE
Another lorry crashes into Coombe Valley Bridge! Isolating our Hospital!Are we seriously going to build our`Hospital`on this totally
disadvantaged,inadequate,vulnerable location? - The Port of Dover is owned by the nation.
As British citizens, we all own a share.
Yet again people travelling on the 60 have got to be diverted .Why cant these lorry drivers read .It means coming out of River over Hillside turning round then back over
Hillside .Coming home will be the same just as you get to River a quick flip into St Radigunds and then back along Crabble Avenue into River .
good job the snow has cleared .- Nice try Reg.................
- Coombe Valley Bridge.
An example of telephone calls and emails I am receiving.
`I think this is the second time in the last six
months that a lorry has hit this bridge and has meant that the road to the Buckland Hospital is closed. The alternative route which is the one that the lorries which access the industrial units at Coombe Valley have to use anyway is
difficult and I would suggest dangerous for ambulances and the volume of traffic that will be generated if Buckland is operational again.` - regarding the petition
and Dr. Dick Rodgers, would it not be more helpful to notify Gwyn Prosser MP as our elected representative rather than the opportunist Conservative candidate whom i would not trust farther than i could throw him?
or is does this
petition have a political element to it and is designed to shore up Mr. Elphicke's leaky campaign?
regards
Mike - Its always a shame to see a good
team split up so lets hope Gillian and her team can sometime in the future reform, but wish them well in their new posts - mike
i believe that dr rodgers has been
in contact with gwyn prosser.
i think it is wise to involve chas elphicke as this issue will still be running a long time after the next election.
at this stage we do not know who will be our MP from then
on. - Reg - you say that like no other site can be blocked by an accident or incident. Whitfield can just as easily be blocked
off..... - Shure, you can't keep good hairdressers down! Not only did they have (shock horror) only 24 hrs notice to quit the premises but they still had a big charity
hairshow to put on a couple of days later. In true style they achieved it all and also secured new employment to boot! They are a fine example of Dover's successful business women! I wish them all the
Best. - all very well for the girls colette, but dover has lost some young and talented people.
thankfully gillian remains. - With all ther money and resources put into Buckland I should jolly well hope that some success has come out of everyones efforts .Unlike some they do not have to pay for
their PCSO .
Pity Mr Prosser does not visit the ward where he lives Or would I scare him off
If you are seen to help your self very liitle help is available .I would like to see more resource put into St Radigunds .
Im sure
I could delight a visiting MP with a tour around the ward of River with Alkham . . - Supporting what Colette says, it is great to hear of the resilience of local women. A tough
time, clearly, but met with courage and strength. Nice one! - susan
alkham is hardly a walk on the wild side.
buckland has well documented problems that deserve
more attention than other areas of our district. - Yes and Buckland has had a lot of resources put into it .They have had problems but dont all patches .I think
Alkham have little boys causing problems outside of the Village Hall.
Here in River we get youngesters racing up and down breaking the speed limit .
- Many
thanks to Charlie Elphicke for the report of his Survey which is now showing at the top of page.
But crime figures generally are all very bewildering. On one hand we had the Police at a reasonably recent Neighbourhood Forum
meeting, telling us crime was down by quite some way in the district. As I remember too their recent mailed leaflet told us something similar too. I dont have their statistics off the top of my head but the drop according to them was
considerable. The Buckland crime figures are down too...down by 30%. But the Conservative survey seems to indicate that they are in fact up everywhere..with one fifth of all residents being a victim of some sort.
...so its all very
bewildering for the humble voter.
So....Are they down or are they up.?
The Conservative Survey might just be more about the fear of crime rather than crime itself, or, are people just not bothering to report low level crime
to the Police. If this is the case, it would have the result of course that the Figures from the Police would look better, but the figures from Charlie's survey would look
worse. - Charlies survey does I feel show very well the feeling in Dover.
As far as police statistics. It is reported crime and I know of at least four in my
area of Dover that were not reported. Why, because in the past the police have not been interested so the attitude is why report it.
The police must be more proactive. Even the attempt to get a Neighbourhood Watch in our area has
failed - Im not a great believer in Polls ,Surveys ,Performance Indicators .
Its what the people say that matters .Listen,Listen is my policy .
You can tell by the
response on this page .What interests people ?
Hardly a squeak about the Coombe Valley Bridge ,the Housing Sratergies etc .
Just off to a Transport meeting more facts and figures .What people are interested in is the fact
it was very difficult for people to get around during the cold spell .Those with cars managed to get out result Icy ridges down the centre of roads and snow swept on to footways .
Do we need a Community Hospital in Coombe Valley ??
On another forum a well known business man because Coombe Valley Road was closed found himself of all places on a Council Estate .He never knew that part of Dover exsisted .
Get real and welecome to the real world .Its not
all wonderful out there ?? - I did manage to press home the message re the bridge at the Transport Meeting .
On another note re my comments on the MPs visit to Buckland
.In no way would I diminsh the work local councillors put into the work in their Ward .
The Community Centre had the support and drive from a previous Councillor and a former resident who has moved away spent hours trying to work with
the Youth in the area .
My comments were purely based on the knowledge I have when I was Community and Housing Portfolio Holder .
I would like to see a brand new Village Hall here in River but we have to make do with our tin
hut which has been up graded . - We need a Proper Hospital but not in Coombe Valley Road.
- Reg maybe its
a bit of a pity at this juncture that the hospital did not go ahead in its central location. This central location had already been given the go ahead initially and most people writing on here including Paul Watkins were in favour of the
centre of town. Then up popped, from somewhere, the flood plain issue...but as for example most of Ashford is built on a floodplain, a lot of people could not grasp the flood plain difficulty in relation to central Dover, when even
Morrisons can open here.
Now we have gone full circle back to Buckland Hosp. Even Gwyn Prosser himself saw the irony in this recently. He tried with others for years to save Buckland and now we have had it saved for us almost by
default.
But with two trucks on different occasions recently delivering traffic chaos on the approach to the hospital..only highlights how poor a decison to continue there is. So I agree with you on that.
But would it not
have been better, now on reflection, to have bitten the bullet and gone with the small central hospital location right here in the heart of town, where most people could reach it without the need for the motorised
vehicle. - Re the Security survey, would a dedicated Border Police Force be required to do the actual everyday policing of the Port and surrounding areas? it seems
to me the Port of Dover police already do this very well. - Work has been in progress renovating the main building for a while now, Mr. Hansel although you're intentions were
no doubt good you continued to push for a hospital in Whitfield and that was something that was never going to happen and irrespective of which party is in power, never will. - Paul Quick answer.No.Brief answer.The central location had not been given the final go ahead.Planning permission would not have obtained approval by the Secretary of state due to the Environment Agency expert advice which DDC
were advised of and chose to totally ignore two and half years ogo.
DDC are completely at fault and responsible for the resulting fiasco and wasted time to build our `Hospital`.
Buckland Hospital has not been saved,it will be
closed when the `Health Centre`is built on the small and only car park area resulting in--No room for expansion--No car parking--extremely difficult access--One way traffic only at the Railway Bridge.
Morrisons is not on a flood plain
and not a hospital/health centre.
I agree with you re traffic chaos and that Coombe Valley is an inappropriate location
On your last point this facilaty is for our district not just Dover Town Centre and Maison Dieu would not have
been approved anyway.
Alan. Health must be above Politics.I hope logic and sense will prevail.We must make the effort. - Good to see they are doing a second
series of this highly watched program, and featureing our very own sevices ie lifeboat and coastguard which do a brillant job. - The central location is, as PaulB rightly
points out, no different to the locations in Ashford used for building public and privare buildings. There are many ways to address the issues raised by the EA, and many people paid large sums of folding stuff to do just that. There were
always more than a few hidden agendas going on. Sadly, it has all impacted on the very good idea to have a decent hospital in Dover. - Thanks for bringing the story to our
attention Martin, I really enjoyed the first series, as did many others, it really brought home the danger involved watching the RNLI volunteers putting their lives on the line on a daily basis.
An interesting angle with the
boats in the main picture, its a view rarely seen except by seafarers, is the building with the green cupola the Harbour Masters office?
Looking forward to the second series. - Just to add another little bit about the RNLI. Many of you will remember the fundraising rowing/running machine challenge they did last year with weathergirl Nazaneen Ghaffar..and
who could forget...they did it again this year (as ever just outside M&S) without the weathergirl but with Radio Kent presenter John Warnett.
A total of £1448 and thirty p was raised. Well done to them and well done to all those
who dug deep and put their cash in the buckets.
Press Officer Martin Collins says:
"
The crew’s target was to travel the equivalent distance from Margate to Hastings, the eastern and westernmost members of the Confederation
of Cinque Ports. This had been calculated to be 68 miles but the crew did so well that by lunchtime they’d reached Hastings. Determined to carry on the crew eventually finished having travelled another 74 miles the equivalent of reaching
Shoreham-on-Sea Lifeboat Station in West Sussex. "
- An email to all Dover District Councillors.
Dear Councillors,
We have,as allways,several problems to deal with.We need,at present,to concentrate on three important matters.
Our Port,Public Services/Spending and our Hospital.
Our Port needs funds for necessary expansion.How do we
fund the Port and it remain in Public ownership?
Our borders need to be secure.Our Port needs to be under Britains control.
Public spending has to be reviewed.Do we need four District Councils to serve East Kent?
We need to evaluate the savings available through economies of scale if we merge all council services.We will then not have to close museums,toilets,stop grants to charities and all the other cuts to our services yet to be
announced in the not to distant future.
This can be achieved with a Unitary Council.
Our Hospital needs to be available for ALL our people in Dover District.
We need our Hospital to be situated in a
sustainable,accessible and sensible location.
Coombe Valley is not that location.
The people of Dover District deserve and expect strong leadership on these matters.
Thankyou for your
consideration.
Regards Reg Hansell. - In support of David H posting today.The Petition for a proper Hospital for Dover was signed by
32,574 people(One third of our population)and was deliverd to 10 Downing Street by several campaigners and Gwyn Prosser MP.
The Authorities from the Government down to Dover District Council did not respond!!!!
How do we get the
people in power to listen to the peoples wishes??? - Reg, petitions very seldom work as we all know that people will sign anything. Now if you had 32,574 letters
stating the need for a proper hospital you might have achieved something.
There never was going t be a proper hospital for Dover, it simply does not have the catchment area to justify
one. - An interesting post 13 Paul Watkins made on the 'Dover and District General Hospital' thread in the Members Club Forum..Paul stated that you need a population of
500,000 people to qualify for a General Hospital.
He went on to say East Kent has a population of 600,000 and already has three general hospitals.
"end of case!" says
Paul - that is precisely why we should grab any money and facilities on offer.
the chance may not come along again for
decades. - The out-of -hours doctors move today to the main front entrance of Buckland. The telephone system has all been updated together with new fixtures and
fittings. Expensive gates are being erected to shut off the old car park at the rear.
This doesn't sound like a condemned hospital to me.
Incidentally I am reliably informed that since the EA designated the Maison Dieu site a
flood plain, insurance companies have reassessed their premiums for the whole area. - Again,in support and agreement with David H postings but first a correction on a
misunderstanding on funding.The East Coast Foundation Hospital Trust has dedicated £19.2 million for our `Hospital`Only the location needs to be changed for a just and proper start for the overdue provision of health care to our
District.
Item one.The PCT are responible for the decision but DDC have been the technical advisors from day one and throughout procedure.DDC recommended Maison Dieu site for the last Two and a half years even though the Environment
Agency had told them that the `Hospital`could not be built there Two and a Half years ago.See Chronology in previous posting.DDC`s irresponsible advice to the Project team wasted Two and a Half years of the project time allotted.Officers
and senior Councillors were advised!!!!
Item two.The location is important to allow future expansion/car parking, beds and adequate/necessary access and to accomodate obvious population growth.You cannot swing a cat in Coombe Valley`
CAR PARK` or Maison Dieu.
It is a dated,misguided and obsolete decision.advised by DDC.
The people of Dover have had their wishes ignored.
This problem will not go away. - "The petition for a proper hospital for Dover was signed by 32,574 people. How do we get the people in power to listen to the peoples wishes?"
Sorry Reg, but if
you put a petition in front of people saying we want more police on the streets, weekly bin collections, new hospitals, increased benefits and lower taxes, of course everyone would sign it.
The people will always want more, but
the job of government isn't just to give 'em what they want if enough sign a piece of paper. - brilliant film festival today at 7.30 and Tue at 3.oo and 7.30,and Vic is
only it it twice! - Yes my wife and myself was there to,I did have words with my old mate John,I was very please to see so many there it was raining hard but still the public turned
out so well done to them to.Both the films are well worth turning out to see so over the next two days get your coats on and get down there even if it is just to see me.Well done to Mac and Terry look forward to next years now. - Restaurateur.
- Oh I forgot to mention there is nothing fair in fairtrade. It's a
giant con. - Spot on Philip. Had a number of emails behind the scenes on that one. But yes you're dead right.
Philip is of course responding to the question in the
editorial above regarding the poster shown.
One I cant spell myself is haemorraging..haemerog..heam..which I used in the members forum tonight. Must look it up one of these
days. - Film festival was good - shame though that Ray Warner must have been on holiday a lot in 1959 and missed quite a few things !!
- Apologies Philip we missed your second post there for a while re Fairtrade being a con. But you might like to explain a bit more about what you mean and and why you think its
a con? I thought the general feeling was that its a good thing. - I really enjoyed the Film Festival at the Town Hall last night, what a buzz, it was a packed
night and amongst the throng I met quite a few Forumites.
Well Done to Mike McFarnell who has done a great job compiling all the events of 2009 into an informative documentary, saw a lot of friends in the film all adding to the
occassion.
Ray Warners film of 1959 was great, seeing all the fountains outside the Gateway flats, wonderful toparies of animals in Connaught Park, fascinating to see all the large sailing boats in the harbour, the carnivals and
floats (without all the health & safety netting) the quality of life seemed a lot better, everything seemed to be a lot simpler in days gone by. - irrespective of whether fairtrade is a con or not, i have tried many fairtrade items from different outlets and found the quality to be very low for the price.
tea and coffee beign the worst.
sorry to say i have
given up trying now. - But the chocolate is fabbo! The co-op do fair trade chocolate worth travelling to buy! I have not found any lack of quality in any of the
fair trade products I have bought, I have to say. - Im not hugely knowlegdeable on Fairtrade myself but I do buy some products in an effort to help out. As I understand it the
products are bought direct from struggling farmers and producers in the third world which enables them to self help.
After years of charity funding pouring into regions of Africa and elsewhere, this is a different approach which
allows the farmer to make a fair wage. Often the charities just produce a short term fix and before you know it the people in these places are back in the same boat of famine and sickness. Fairtrade is an effort to limit that boom and
bust system.
Yesterday in Marks and Spencer, who are strong supporters of Fairtrade, I bought bananas at £1.49 for 7 , they came from St Lucia. I also bought Sugar at 98p which came from Malawi and Zambia. Not sure if these prices
are lower or indeed higher than ordinary ones but thats what they cost anyway.
There are members on here who know much more about this sort of thing..such as David Hannent so hopefully we might hear from
them. - Paul
I am sorry you are mischief making in your editorial.
Charlie has never said he wants a DDGH neither have I. Read my last comments and you will
see that what Charlie is saying is the same ( abeit he hasn't gone for a particular area).
I do wish this comment about DGH will go away - it isnt an issue.
I also note that Paul isnt in favour of coobe Valley which quite
rightly would benefit hugely from use as a Housing site. so I dont think there is a difference. Your topic says there is confusion - not so.
It has been said that politics gets in the way of proper decision making for the good of
the town (I think I said it!) Well your editorial is political - can we just agree the basic facilities that we want - Charlie has set them out, so good for him.
Your assumption that I, Reg or Charlie ( whom you have lumped
together in this instance ) have less understanding of how Local government works is perhaps a little unfair. - Busy since early today cooking Local Rooks sausages donated
for tonight as it isnt only Fairtrade but local suppliers that we encourage.
The coffee is as good if not better - everyone who visits here or the Town Council offices notices how good it is not whether its Fairtrade.
Ask
Cadburys, Tate and Lyle, Co-op, morrisons M&S and Tesco about the quality - and they will confirm that the demand is growing rapidly. They have examined the system and it works - the producer is protected and can produce quality items.
I am not the expert here - just go to the Fairtrade website and all the information is there.
D - what exactly is the difference between a DGH and a
"proper" hospital?
i bet that i am not the only one confused on this issue. - It will be down to the scope and level of services and treatments it can
deliver. Be nice to have the full McCoy but as PaulW and Charlie have said that is not possible, but we can get something better than a polyclinic even if it does not have the full status/scope of a DGH. - BEDS and emergency services ( which include a helicopter pad!).
something to complement the clinic in aylesham and HOSPITAL in deal!!! - I am in total agreement with David H and Charlie on the Hospital issue.Paul W.muddies the waters and causes confusion in many peoples minds with his Dover District General Hospital
arguement.What Dover needs is a proper Hospital ie.Care beds,Doctor led emergency services in a location that can be developed into a General Hospital when and if necessity demands such progress.
Coombe Valley does not allow this
to be a possibilty.
Every one,who is informed,agree Coombe Valley is not an intelligent/adequate location
The present proposal is short term thinking.The figures quoted by Pual W were based on a younger population.Today the
situation has changed and we must have long term thinking which will account for this together with the increase in population expected.
Our campaign has allways been that Health provision is above politics.Lets keep it that
way. - On about Hospials,coming to you soon is my leaflets just read it, it will tell you how I feel about it and U.K.I.P.
- Deal hospital is not a full hospital either, surely? The inept jigsaw made up of Deal facilities, a clinic of sorts in Aylesham and something or another in Dover
is a bit insufficient, isn't it? - Watty says that Dover doesn't merit a proper hospital because we don't have the population. How come we had one before.?
- Don't have the population............???????!!!!!!!!
- Fairtrade. Call it "Eviltrade" or "Badtrade" and most
liberal westerners would be shouting from the rooftops or leaving comments in the Guardian blog that it's an evil capitalist conspiracy that will impoverish the third world. Why?- because of the name. Put a cosy-wosy cuddley niceypicy
name to anything and the masses will buy it. But fairtrade is nothing more than a marketing gimmick used by the major retailers to get us, the gullible public to buy more of their produce. I mean, come on, do you really think the major
retailers are really trying to conquer poverty? For Pete's sake No of course they're not! Anyone who believes this hype needs a reality check. Look at the way they screw our own British farmers and other suppliers down to the last
penny!
Fairtrade is nothing of the sort and campaigners who really want to do something about third world poverty are saying this but the might of the big retail muscle and others who benefit have managed to drown out their
protestations. I don't think ill of those over here on a grass roots level who try do something to help the poor overseas, their intentions are sound and to be admired but if they looked a little further into how little good it does
they would be somewhat disappointed.
Fairtrade is about as useful as one of those "bags for life" the supermarkets used to tout last year. Where are they now? Landfill? - I
have mostly kept out of the various campaigns to get a new "hospital" in Dover as they got bogged down with people taking political sides. I did help out with p.a. systems but that in no way meant that I endorsed any particular side.
By the same token you may vary well see me in the run up to the General Election but that doesn't indicate how I will vote.
To say that the population size of Dover means that it doesn't warrant a full blown Acute Hospital to
my mind is a bit of a red herring. I have been a patient in all three main hospitals. It is patently obvious that they are streched to limit and beyond. It is difficult to see how they could be expanded. A fourth acute hospital
(or DGH in old parlance) needs to be built. Where it is built doesn't matter but Dover seems to be an obvious place. Given the size that it would be, Whitfield is the only contender. - Absolutely spot on Terry.
I am one of those in the community that Charlie Elphicke refers to with regard to fewer journeys to Ashford and Margate, having attended
William Harvey last week for a back procedure with no driving allowed and QEQM next week on two consecutive days. Lets just get on with building this much needed hospital, Whitfield is not a million miles away, its local for goodness
sake accessible by bus and cheaper taxi fares than the other two mentioned. - I'm with Colette and Terry too. Whitfield is the ideal place for a new
hospital. It's easily accessible, there is plenty of space for it and as Whitfield is part of Dover I can't see the problem. Surely it would be quicker to get a patient there than risk our one way system with all it's holdups -
minutes lost could mean a life lost in some cases. How many times do we see blue light vehicles trying to get through the main street?
Why this dislike of Whitfield anyway, seems a bit silly to me, we don't hear these complaints
about other areas of Dover. - Well I have been saying along time now that Whitfield is the site I think would make a good Hospital for the District there is more room amd the
roads to it are better.Jacqui and me in agreement must be a first.
- two major things against whitfield.
a) planning
permission would have to be obtained for any land made available for a hospital.
b) the town desperately need regeneration(as we all know), the hospital would be a big part in it.
the district council have alwaysbacked the town
centre location. - Two Major things against Whitfield???
a)Planning is full of smoke screens and chinese walls.Planning can be fast tracked if there is a will of
cooperation to help the community!!!
b)Forget Hospital being part of the regeneration of the town centre.It cannot happen.
Dover District Council has had its head in the sand for a town centre location.They ignored conclusive
evidence that it was not possible.
Officers and senior members were advised of this two and a half years ago..Freedom of information available and will be published.
For information only.DDC meeting 3rd arch 2010.
To receive
answers in respect of questions from the public to Members of the
Executive asked in accordance with Rule 11 of the Council Procedure Rules.
(A maximum of three minutes is allowed for the question to be read. Up to 15
minutes is
allowed for this part of the meeting. Members of the public may ask one
supplementary question in addition to their original question. Afterwards any other
Member at the Chairman's discretion, may speak for up to two minutes on a
question
or reply.)
(1) Mr R V Hansell will ask the Leader of the Council:
The potential merger of Housing services of Canterbury, Dover, Shepway and
Thanet is a major step towards a Unitary Council of East Kent. It is a
mini
Unitary Council. The savings of this action is £1,500,000 pounds. Recently
44 District and County Councils in seven counties were merged resulting in
nine Unitary Councils with a potential saving of £100 million pounds.
The
2
merger of our four District Councils of East Kent into one Council will result in
one Chief Executive instead of four, approximately 50 Councillors instead of
196, one Leader of the Council instead of four, one Cabinet
instead of four,
one Planning Department etc, etc instead of four and other economies of
scale throughout the four Councils. The savings are enormous. The changes
would result in simpler access for people, stronger lobbying
powers for a
larger Council and better value for money through economies of scale. A
Unitary Council would be a completely new Council and would replace both
District and County Councils. Kent County Council is too big, Dover
and
other East Kent District Councils are short of finance and too small to be
effective. Unitary Councils serve 60% of England. All councils in Scotland
and Wales are Unitary Councils. The financial position of all four
District
Councils is parlous. Why does this Council not evaluate the savings available
in a Unitary Council of East Kent? When can the people of Dover expect a
transition to a Unitary Council of East Kent?
- The major problem in the town is what I`ve said before, PARKING. I`ve been sick to death over the year`s of dropping people at either Ashford or Canterbury hospital,
or going in myself and driving round and round in circles trying to park. A good solution would be to have Stagecoach run a circular bus service on a frequent basis in both directions via Jubilee Way or Whitfield Hill. Plain and simple,
without waiting for a 60 here or 63 there. Also, if the hospital became as popular as Canterbury, it would need to expand, and Whitfield has the space, but at the same time, it would be sad to see more of our rural area ripped
up. - As I stated in the other thread if we were to get "on the map" for a District General Hospital, Whitfield would be the IDEAL place.
But even extra housing
development at Whitfield will not deliver population figures to meet the NHS/government figures to make an evidence based case for a Health facility we deserve.
How hard have people tried to keep a sub standard Buckland Hospital
with its reducing services.?
Answer -25 years+.
Even this week campaigns have been unsuccessful to keep maternity services in our highly populated county town of Maidstone. Centralisation is the trend for many reasons
which have been well rehearsed in Dover over the years.
My sentiments and former associations with the NHS and Buckland Hospital lead my heart. But my head tells me we are "barking up the wrong tree".
Unless Canterbury
shuts or is further downgraded [possible] Ashford, is accessed as meeting Maidstone and West Kent's needs , we will not stand "a hope in hell" of a Dover DGH.
So what of Whitfield? The proposal by campaigners was to put the new
facility in the middle of an industrial estate. Not ideal. You had the potential of a hospital/polyclinic next to an employment generating manufacturing site or thwarting the same development from locating because of noise pollution
etc disturbing Health patients [if limited beds were to be provided].
There is no doubt new health facilities need to be provided for Whitfield as it develops over the next 20-25 years. Funding and location of these facilties
need to be locally consulted on and in the main funded by developers as part of their obligations.
So , my friends , what now?
I'll campaign, but only with hard evidence, not heart felt emotion. You don't beat the
system unless you can beat the other person's arguement with a straight forward case backed up by stats. They don't listen otherwise.
Watty.
- Correction to Paul W posting.
We do not want our Hospital on the Industrial Estate.
There is plenty of land suitable for our Hospital car parks etc for future necessary expansion up at Whitfield doing nothing and
available now. - Reg, that is called countryside !!!
- Sorry Reg, not sure what correction you meant to
Paul Watkins post, and which industrial estate you were referring to? - Paul, So is where DDC and you will build 8,000 houses.What do the people want a Hospital or houses.Or
both!!!! - the clock is ticking now.
how much longer before the money is taken away and spent somewhere else?
we can debate which is the best site
for ever, at the end of the day we could be left with nothing. - Paul keeps banging the argument about a DGH - not pecessary never been requested by the campaign
however if space were available - and it is - any facility could grow.
Industrial.... - a hospital makes more noise and smoke than an industrial location nowadays - anyway why the is the new schools and leisure centre planned for
whitfield - we are talking about an area already designated - simples.
- The Allotment is the best in the area, bar none. Well done, Dave - top stuff!
- Yes Andy, the Allotment is great and his accolades are well deserved
- My wife and I had first class meal at
the Allotment on our last visit to Dover. Highly recommended, The only place to eat in town! - I havent been in to The Allotment myself but it has had so many rave
reviews that it will be certainly worth trying out soon. Some of my colleagues have been in there though and speak well of it. So I must rev up some of my dining out enthusiasm, which has been going through a mid winter doldrum, and pop
along soon. But always good to see a new Dover business doing well. - Lilith Precious and Honor Precious are darlings, what lovely photos,
bless. - As some of you know, I sent round an email circular about the Allotment being on Kent Life a few days ago.
It is a good restaurant and Dave is a first class host
and chef.
This review is good for Dover as well as The Allotment and I just hope more people will go there - it's not cheap, but you wouldn't expect it to be would you ?
Quality costs, but it is worth it.
As I've
said before, if any one would like to be addeed to my email address groups (the emails are sent out blind, so you can't receive any spam or scam emails from them), please let me
know.
Roger - Would I be biased in saying that they are great pictures? Thanks
- wonderful pics colette, gorgeous girls chris.
- what a lovely photo of the two precious
princesses.They are precious indeed.
From their fond though absent grandmother
- Yes they are both pricesses, I know them and
they are great kids and they could not have abetter mum and dad just a great family well done to them all.And the boy aswell. - What can one
say, other than yes they are lovely - beautiful little "precious" girls.
Roger - Ah yes lovely little girls and lovely pictures indeed. Nice to
hear from grandmother Penny up there in Rugby. Chris P I did send you an email but not sure if you got it as not sure if I have your correct email...was just asking the girls ages ?.. and if they are enjoying being carnival princesses
? - Beautiful pics, beautiful children, and fabulous names! Gorgeous!
- Don't know if Chris got your
email Paul but their ages are Lilith is 7 and Honor is 10. They love being princesses and will be entering the selection night this year (it being Honor's last year as being eligible for Junior Princess). The selection night is on the
13th March at Kings Hall (7:30pm) and I'm sure Louise would be delighted to have other entants. - Very much enjoyed this years film festival and lovely to see the
picture's of Chris and Stephanie's two little princess. - Jan what about my picture they told me I looked great when I came out of the sea,and after seeing it on
Monday at the Film Festival I am in agreement with them I was hours geting my hair done. - It was lovely taking photos of the two beautiful
Precious princesses, they are such delightful little girls and a credit to their parents Stephanie and Chris.
Must say a Big Congratulations to our lovely Saskia, Ben and the rest of the cast on winning First Prize for their film
'Playground' Very well deserved, I know how hard they all worked.
Also really enjoyed DTC Fairtrade evening, lots of tasty food with accompanied wine, what a treat it was, very yummy! And those chocolate brownies were extremely
moreish, will certainly be getting more of them, they are now on my weekly shopping list.
- Hi,Jacqui-nice to see you're back with us.
Drop me a
line.please,Steve. - The Fairtrade Wine tasting evening was very enjoyable, I especially liked the scrumptious chorizo sausages donated by
Rooks, they will be getting my custom in the near future. - Next years plan is a Fairtrade fashion show Paul - so sorry about
that... - i must try the chorizo sausages pb, i have only had the prepacked ones so far from supermarkets.
- Every time I open this site the pictures make me smile. Lovely!
- Ah glad you are enjoying the pictures Bern. Oh dear no wine tasting next year David?? ah well I guess
we can always struggle through at a fashion show full of long limbed lovelies...its all very hard work but someone has to do it !! should make for some interesting frontpage pictures though, what with all that fashion, and without a
glass of wine or a chorizo sausage in sight. Interesting though how this fairtrade thing grabs you...will now watch out for fairtrade wine where I didnt before. - I bought some fair trade coffee from the local co-op recently. It was a bit pricey but being a 'leftie' as Roger puts it and also trying to do my bit to promote fair trade in developing countries I dug deep and parted with a
fistful of Pound notes (we still have them in use over here) took it home and brewed a pot for the wife and I ,a coffee addict,(did you know they export coffee from the Phils..nor did I...sorry I digress).
It was bloody
awful!!!! - I've done the same Marek with the same result, Yeuch! There has got to be a reason for this, are they getting rid of the scrapings using the Fairtrade logo?
All the other Fairtrade products I buy are fine, no complaints. - that is what turned me off fairtrade stuff, bought it from the co-op.
tried the marks and spencer
version, no contest, will buy again. - Big exclusive about the fate of the DTIZ revealed by the Dover Express in the last few minutes. For the very latest go to
thisiskent.co.uk... - Thank you for your kind remarks Paul. I wonder if Colette can email copies of the photos? I'm sorry about the negative remarks about Fairtrade
products. They may have had some justification in the very early days, but nowadays their quality is second to none. Otherwise Marks and Spencer would not have gone over to providing only Fairtrade tea and coffee. - Rhys, I believe that the Dover Express also has an exclusive on the Pope's Catholicism and bears' defecating habits in woods.
According to
the article a major hotel is still in the running for the site. I would be fascinated to see their business plan when the Churchill could not make a go of it! - Bob, your
attempt at what I presume was intended to be humour is rather lost on me. In what respect is the Asda story a statement of the obvious, if that was the point you were trying to make with your reference to the Pope?
Yes a hotel
chain remains interested, but that's not really the point, is it? A major chain will still need to come in to replace Asda and take on the floor space within the development previously allocated to them. - bob
the intended hotel is a budget one with conference facilities.
i would have thought that a good addition to dover, these hotels tend to bring in weekenders. - I still think the council jump the gun here,The building that Asda was talking about when they are put up etc look nice ,how do I know,because i have worked on them.Again
anything would have been better than what we have now and will be looking at for the rest of my life anyway,if the door is still open I think the council should go back to Asda and agree to the downgrade of the building the life of a
building like this is only about 10 to 15 years and that s not long,it will take that long or even longer to start all over again.So I say take it now if we can do that,and look at it again in ten years time,You know about the story of
having a bird in the hand. - Thanks for the tip Howard, I will now get my Fairtrade coffee from Marks & Spencer, I will continue to support
Fairtrade as the movement needs our support, every little bit helps. - Public spending has always been the target for cuts.
Nationally, Local Authorities are expecting
20,000 to 25,000 plus jobs to be lost.This is obviosly going to effect Dover and East Kent.
To reduce the effect of this on Dover and East Kent and to benefit all our taxpayers is for our four District Councils to merge all services
into a Unitary Council of East Kent.
The economies of scale will save millions and avoid cutting our services.
Dover District Council must now evaluate this option for the sake of our services and the Dover and East Kent
taxpayers.
Question to the Leader of Dover District Council at full Council tomorrow. - Hi Rhys, not intended humour. 100% sarcasm. I don't expect my
newspapers to report the obvious!
People can only by so much 'stuff' especially in a recession. The proximity of both Morrisons and Sommerfield make the ASDA a non starter.
The pig in the python is Burlington House (yes,
I know it used to be the elephant in the room but I prefer the alliteration).
Allegedly there is someone who has a long term lease on the top floor which he rents out to various mobile phone companies from which he is making a
tidy sum which makes compulsory purchase uneconomic.
As 'investigative reporters' I'm sure you would like to correct me?
- Newspapers report news, which
the official decision by Asda to pull out of the scheme most certainly is. I guess sometimes it may seem to some people like stating the obvious, but that's just the way it is. A headline reading "thousands dead after massive
earthquake" would seem obvious I suppose, but that doesn't mean it won't be reported.
According to sitefinder.ofcom.org.uk, which allows you to see the locations of mobile phone masts, there are a number of masts on Townwall
Street between heights of 39-45 metres, which must be Burlington House. How's that for investigative journalism in action!
It's hard economic reality I'm afraid. If I was making a mint just leaving the building empty and taking
the cheques from the phone companies I wouldn't be in a hurry to sell up, and I doubt many others would be either. - rhys and bob
the bit about the phone masts
on burlington house was posted on here by man of the people "our vic" about two years ago.
why has there been this pretence that the DTIZ was all systems go
when the truth is burlington house will be there for a long time
yet.
rhys
do you know through your many contacts who is the company holding the lease? - Thanks for the nod on this Rhys. Im staggered by the news, only
this morning we were talking about DTIZ on Vic's Dover District Press Release thread..circa 2005, in the forum section. I still was hopeful even then, that the area would be modernised so am personally very disappointed. Was out and
about today so came back to this very hot but disappointing news. Various threads running on it now so it is a shocker to all I imagine...all hope now abandoned for development.
Not sure Im undertanding Bob there as I think most
will expect to see this in thursdays paper.
Hello Rev Hinton...will organise with Colette those pictures for you. No problem there. Good to see you on here. - Howard I can say no more about Burlington house then I have been saying over the last 4years but no one took any notice of what I was trying to put over. Part of my working life has been working on sites like that building I
will not go over it all again. - Howard - the owner is a simple Land Registry Direct request for £4 last time I did one.
I do know
the contact from a few years ago and I don't think it has changed hands since.... - Howard ask the DDC, they held a 99 year lease on the multi storey so I would
assume that includes Burlington House. The freeholders at that time (the 80's) was City Wall (Holdings) Limited. - thanks for that alan, doubt if an answer will be
forthcoming.
paul
in the past when i have tried to chase dodgy landlords i paid out for the name of a holding company, just like the one mentioned in alan's post. - John De Stefano & Co. Ltd
- It seems as if DDC and Asda couldn't agree about of all things the Car Park,DDC
wanted to charge ASDA wanted to put in a spend and get your money back. - surely the car park would have been under the control of ASDA?
that is the normal
thing.
sounds like you councillors have got a bit greedy john. - Not me Howard I am never greedy! But I know some who
are - Not knowing the full facts about the car-parking arrangements it would be wrong of me to speculate, but I understand that ASDA wanted all of the car-park, not share it with
other shops/shoppers.
I believe the income was secondary.
They wanted to downgrade the building too, so we would have lost one tall ugly building and gained a low ugly building.
A big shame though; they didn't want
the competition that Morrisons would give them.
Roger - Howard - car park refund schemes are in place elsewhere so it should not have been a problem, but I can
certainly see how exclusive use of the car park would be.
It sounds as if Asda are making excuses and really did not want the Morrison's competition.
Before anyone says that DDC should not have granted permission for
Morrisons to save the scheme, they would almost certainly have not had the planning reasons not to. permission would have been granted on appeal. Besides, they would have been on to a no win situation is they tried that. - Morrison's had a valid planning application from original B & Q from useage. They only needed PP for extension.
Watty - Howard , all part of planning permissions and what ASDA were told from the start. They have a full planning permission [which they submitted,their design] and could start
tomorrow if the land was clear. There are compulsory purchase powers in place that they required if they can't do a commercial deal with the tenants/freeholders.The DTIZ scheme was to bring people back into the town centre so all
traders could benefit, not solely for ASDA's benefit. As Barry has pointed out they can easily refund the car parking charge to their customers as Sainsbury and Somerfields do in Deal. It works well.Folkestone is not delivering their
expectations and Morrison's has made them think twice. Straight forward.Their PR machine is working overtime. - all becomes clear now paul.
did they try to a
deal with the freeholders? - I believe they did with the real biggie, Howard.I really don't want to get into the Max Clifford type exchanges with the ASDA PR types.
It's their image, not Dover, they are trying to protect.I'm confident they won't want this story to reverberate around the retail and business communities. It does not help their relationships with other councils to see this if they
expect to do deals.Doesn't do Dover any good.Watty - very interesting paul, throws a lot more light on things.
i know someone that works in the folkestone
branch, they confirm what you say about the results being rather disappointing.
i went in there the once, cavernous place, not to my taste.
one could spend the best part of an hour trying to find a box of
cornflakes.
there have been rumours of waitrose being interested in being involved with the DTIZ, i cannot see that dover has a big enough spend to keep them happy.
hythe seems to be a better location for them. - Very astute Howard.
Watty - looks like a very busy evening in thanet, great photos.
interesting comment from the mayor of sandwich
about the toilets.
i think it was bob here that mentioned the bishop of dover is based in canterbury.
no logic whatsoever. - I think a number of Issues
come from the latest posings;
1; It's felt that ASDA never were serious about coming to Dover and the
latest position confirms that
2; ASDA cannot and must not be allowed to control fully all of the DITZ
and
on this part the council is correct to allow ASDA to withdraw
3; The council should have some time ago put the gun to ASDA's head
and stated, either your serious or go, not wait over 10 years!
4; There is no doubt because
of the way ASDA didnt handle itself well that
Morisson's have cashed in, and I for one dont blame them.
5; BarryW believes in this competition bit, wonder how he feels now?
6; Do I hear calls for the bowling alley
again?
Talking in the Town to locals, proud of Dover they all say to politiians
of all parties, get it right for Dover, don't let them(the general public)be ashamed of the town they were born
in. - excellent post keith welcome back.
one point i would take issue with you is over the bowling alley.
i have never heard the slightest whisper of any company being
interested in opening such a facility here.
maybe roger(business support) or paul the fuhrer(ddc) may know something to the contrary.
i doubt it though.
if i am wrong i will be delighted. - Theres nowt
political to be gained now, and I don't care who would take credit for getting a bowling alley.
At the moment the youth are leaving Dover in droves to go to bowling alleys in other towns
Maybe those in positions of power
could look again? - Don't have aproblem with bowling alleys, ice rinks, multiplex cinemas. Problem is they don't want to put their capital to locate in town centres. They will
come if someone provides the buildings, car parking spaces,etc. Has been tested. They can operate and leave if it doesn't pay at someone elses expense.When people tell you that these operators will come to Dover, they are correct. They
don't tell the rest of the conditions which presents a rather different story.Good business if you can get it. Love to have some.Watty - An extremely good networking
evening meeting up with some familar faces and also some new ones, was interesting to be in Thanet College which has seen some famous faces pass through its doors.
Was good meeting up with Amanda Cottrell who take's her roll as head
of Visit Kent very seriously.
Also meeting up with the new Bishop of Dover whom we hope we will see more of in Dover.
And yes also managed long chat with Mayor of Sandwich on the toliet issue - Sounds like a very interesting and useful meeting; there couldn't be a better reason for getting together than to talk-up businesses and how they can move
forward.
Sorry I wasn't there.
Roger - Good to see the White Horse open again and full up - good photos Colette.
Good
Luck with it Mandie and Jeanette - did someone say they are going to offer food ?
Roger - Yes your dead right there Roger. Very good meeting..Backing Kent
Business was very interesting and the feature is now in All Recent Features.
And now for the White Horse. Rock On... - Really enjoyed our evening at the White Horse, and seeing everyone to catch up again - a super end after a
VERY busy day with the Dover War Memorial Project. Best of luck to the White Horse! It's not the first time we've been in this lovely pub, and it most certainly won't be the last! - Wasn't there talk of a bowling alley going In the area mentioned?
Keith makes a valid point, can it not be re visted? - "At the moment the youth are leaving Dover in droves to go to bowling alleys in other towns"
I don't think so Keith. Some go bowling, but I'd put money it is a fairly similar number to those that go to the swimming
pool or mill about town as they do in any town centre. Yes young people need things to do, but I'm always amazed that these activities are always so obviously what are prescribed by what the adults think they should do.
I took
my children to Margate bowling 3 weeks ago. Was it full of groups of young people, no it was prodominantly families that could drive to Ashford or Margate. Bowling is costly and kids actually get bored of it relatively quickly. In my
experience you can make a teenager play one game, at a push two, but then after that enthusiasm for this simplistic game starts to disappear.
Multiplex cinemas are also what people think 'the youth' want. Have you been
recently? It's a family treat, not the affordable experience like that of the Saturday morning pictures enjoyed by the 'BBC is the only TV channel' generation making these decisions about what young people like doing.
Ask a
child what they would like in Dover and they would probably say 'a decent cinema' or 'bowling alley', get them to fill out a questionaire on whether there is 'anything to do' and you would get the same level of dissatisfaction as
children from town that does have a bowling alley. When will people realise that the problem that faces young people in towns is that of ownership, not imagination. Kids climbing trees in the countryside and this is seen as parochial
adventure. Watch what happens when the same is done in Pencester.
Use the DTIZ development to make the town work spacially, reroute traffic, connect the town to the seafront, provide the capcity for the town to change
indefinitely. Why we have been presented so far with projects that could have been easily concieved by teenagers is beyond me. - Great photos, Colette! (Even the ones of me aren't
too dreadful!) A great night, and a huge thankyou to Mandy and Jeanette for the hospitality.
The hangover must have been a deep one, Paul - the caption for Maggie SK and Tom Mitchell should have read "The pic on the right shows
the gorgeously grizzly Guzzler sharing an amusing moment with Tom Mitchell"...........!
Only joking, Maggie! (Runs and hides..........) - Thanks for the
photos Colette and PaulB for the write up of the White Horse reopening night.It looks like a good time was had by all.Sorry I missed it.Dover has some smashing committed folk who try and turn out to support these local events and do's.
It's just a pity the councillors couldn't be bothered to show their faces and lend support. A boozer reopening is a very rare event these days and should be fully supported.So good luck everyone at the White Horse.Maybe next year a
float in the local carnival? - One District Councillor was there to support it Marek - I did my best.
Saturday we went past it at about 19.40 and there was just one guy
at the bar, so it needs support every evening, not just launch night.
Roger - Aww gutted I couldnt be there, but I think Scotchie and Jeffers and I shall be having
a reunion in the White Horse especially as I shall now be working in the District...
Looks like it was an awesome evening!
- Ohh and before I forget.. a
note on Whitfield Development...
Dad popped into the exhibit and found out.. ohh yes.. nothing as normal.. and he wont mind me telling you his comment..
He paid a premium to live close to the countryside.. is he going to
get any compensation for it all being taken away?!!
Dont think he was impressed at all, and said as normal it didnt feel like a consultation, felt like a decision already made and being forced.
- Sorry Roger
I always expect you to turn out on parade.You lead by example.All Jeanette needs to do is put the pub on web cam and I'll be able to raise my glass and
see you all.Cheers - i regret having to miss the opening, looks like a great time was has by all, great pics from colette.
roger
most pub customers nowadays
arrive fairly close to 9 pm.
it will take time to build up a customer base, word of mouth is the best thing, also there are many people who look in at the pictures here. - Was good to join everyone at the reopening of the White Horse, as you can see quite a gathering.
So here's wishing them every success and as always some good pictures showing the event. - Jenn please read my post on that in the members club thank you.Also you or your family can email me about it
- I echo all said here about The White Horse reopening launch night and what a great night it was too. Good luck to Mandy and Jeanette for its continuing success.
Pleased to see you all liked the photos, even after copious amounts of the lovely Gallo wine but finely balanced by the scrumptious nibbles kindly laid on by our lovely hosts I managed to focus, well just about!
- A really enjoyable night, good to meet so many friends and forumites and quaff a pint or two. Great to see a really nice pub come back to life, I wish
Mandy and Jeanette well for the future. - Nice to see the White Horse opened up again. It was my last port of call after a night on the town when I lived in Victoria Park in the 70's. Good to see
Mrs. Bailey is still about, she was the landlady when I used it helped by her husband and son Nick.
Nigel was conspicuous by his absence unless he was lurking in one of the adjacent rooms. He almost lived in there in those
days. - We are looking forward to a pint in the White Horse, tomorrow, on one of our regular trips to wonderful Dover.
- Enjoy your pint in there Hugh..good to see that the news about the re-emergence of the White Horse is spreading far and wide.
Alec noooo there was no sign of Nigel. He wasnt
lurking in a back room or anything. In fact one or two people spoke his name in hushed reverence....him being such a devotee of the humble pint...and were surprised at his non appearance. Once upon a time he was a regular propper-upper
of the bar in there, but on the big night didnt show up. - I understand Nigel was at the Royal Cinque Ports Yacht Club's Beer Festival. It was on Friday
afternoon/evening and all day Saturday and the beer that was left, was sold at £2.00 a pint on Sunday.
I did send an email round about it - does no one read my emails any more ?
Roger - did read it roger, also on your what's on page.
not a real ale fan myself, i thought we had a few on here though.
guzzler springs to
mind. - Latest:Council Tax Bills.
Our council tax bills are unnecessarily high and above inflation level because we have Four councils in East KENT doing the same
as each other.By merging all services under one council the economies of scale would reduce our bills(by millions)Unfortunately for the Councils,many officers and councillors it would be like Turkeys voting for Christmas and the
Political Partys not sure who would be in power.In the meantime Joe Public suffers and picks up the bill.Its quite simple to correct! - interesting thought reg, who
would have political control?
i suppose that there would just be one election covering all of east kent?
it does seem to be coming in by stealth, most members of the public are unaware of the merging of services that are
already taking place. - Following on from the post from Reg below..let us just redo the Press Release on Council Tax increases just released. It was shown in the
Members Club Forum this morning but will now repeat here. If anyone has a comment then please let us know.
**DDC PRESS RELEASE as follows......
Dover District Council has confirmed Council Tax for the district at
its meeting on 3 March. The average total bill for a Band D property in the district is going up by 2.34%.
The average total bill for a Band D property in Dover District for 10/11 will be £1,458.93, an increase of £33.40.
The total bill includes the element of Council Tax for Kent County Council (£1,047.78), Dover District Council (£158.94), Kent Police Authority (£138.68), Kent Fire and Rescue Service (£67.95), and an average for Town and Parish
Councils of £45.58.
The element of Council Tax for DDC is increasing by 2.5%, a rise of £3.87 per year, or 7 pence per week, for Band D properties.
- I didn't think the council rise was high at 2.5%.
I would rather see more services provided through higher council tax, but that will never
happen; being low rated, also means low services.
Roger - would it really make much of a difference to services though roger?
the proportion of the bill
that goes to DDC is very low.
an unrelated point, the amount that the police get is only a bit less than the council get.
the council provides refuse collection, street lighting, the museum, some bus shelters, runs a planning
department,car parks,traffic wardens, parks and gardens and various other services, how does this compare with the service the police provide? - Howard
You are
right. The amount DDC get (approx 10%) is the same as the Police. Yet what do the police give us... in Dover very little.
Re the 2.5%. Although small to many pensioners who have had little or no increase it is too high.
Re
East Kent Council... This will come whatever party wins election as public sevice staff costs must be cut..The highest growth in job terms in the last 10 years has been within the public sector where there has been an attitude of
increase jobs and give higher pay. - Yes it would Howard.
If Council tax increase was say 5%, we would be able to provide more services, spend more money locally
on a range of things, including ASB, Tourism, the "street-scene" etc. etc.
Because the above are not statutory responsibilities, DDC don't have to provide them and because they are being starved of money by the Government (all
Local Authorities are), non-statutory activities are being/have been, cut back, or no longer exist.
Tourism (to me one of the most important aspects concerning Dover's well-being) had its own department a few years ago, then DDC
became a "facilitator" to save money - because it wasn't a statutory responsibility and now it is being devolved to the Town Council.
I admit I don't fully understand the intracacies of LA finances and not many people do, but
if we/they don't have to do it, they won't.
There is less staff at Whitfield, so the DDC workforce is much leaner, they work harder and produce a very good level of service.
Dover District Council is being led very
astutely by Paul Watkins, even some Labour Councillors admit that - they may not like him, but many respect him for the strategic way he is moving Dover forward.
The thing that I feel they fall down badly on, is communication - to
the general public.
Roger - Communications is a difficult one, it costs a councils a lot of money on newsletters, leaflets, website, the Gateway,
statutory advertising... then people knock the cost of them doing it ! - I too am amazed at the small cut that the DDC gets out of the general breakdown of each
bill paid...just £158.oo out of a total bill of £1458.oo for each bill paid. No wonder KCC have such deep pockets and deep reserves. Its a very large county after all.
Anyway, here is the latest released information from
DDC.....so maybe they do do a lot for the money...??
DOVER DISTRICT COUNCIL – WORKING FOR YOU
Dover District Council continues to improve customer services and support for our communities, with a number of positive
results highlighted in the latest performance figures for this year.
Figures from the first three quarters of the year include news that satisfaction of community partners and stakeholders in DDC support is at 100%. Results
also show that 100% of calls regarding strays and dog fouling were investigated within 3 working days, and 99% of calls (day service) on noise were responded to within 5 working days.
The statistics also show that successful work
on e-communication is helping us to help the environment, with an increase of almost 20% in people getting recycling email alerts, and an increase of almost 35% in those registered with DDC’s Sign Me Up campaign, (where households sign
up for emails instead of letters wherever possible).
Results show customer satisfaction rating with DDC customer services is at 93%, the number of long-term private sector vacant dwellings returned to occupation/demolished as a
direct result of action by the authority is up on 08/09, and levels of recycling are up, with levels of participation in recycling schemes up from 56% in 08/09 to over 70%.
Almost 98% of new reports of abandoned vehicles were
investigated within 24 hours, and levels of unacceptable graffiti and fly-posting at pre-selected areas were at 0%. We continue to support communities, with 315 enquiries for additional benefits claimed by residents aged 60 and over, and
the value of these benefits set at more than £425,000.
Cllr Ian Ward, DDC Cabinet Member for Corporate Resources and Performance, said: “There are a number of excellent results here. We are a low taxing authority, and these are
difficult financial times, but we continue to work for our communities and to deliver a wide range of excellent customer services, and this is great news for the district.”
- the picture at the top there would be a nice front for a dover tourist brochure.
paul(scotchie)
communicaton need not be expensive, regular
press releases to local press and on line forums would reach a great swathe of the ppulation.
they only do this now when they are giving out good news.
we are all adult enough to accept the truth about necessary service
cuts. - ROGER
I don't think if you spoke with the staff they would share your comments on Mr Watkins. - paul
looking at that press release, it is worded very carefully.
numbers are given when it suits and percentages on other items.
the high rate of
investigating abandoned cars?
what was the rate of doing something about it?
i remember the high rate of dealing with reported anti social behaviour, mainly due to the phone not being answered. - DDC issue Press releases all the time Howard, but the Press don't always run with them - sometimes they do and of course it is the papers' decision to publish or
not.
The picture PaulB is wonderful, I can't recall seeing such a lovely image of central Dover as this and it does look better, larger.
Roger - i
appreciate that roger, but the releases from andy steele are more propaganda than news.
i realise that is his job and most local authorities are guilty of the same thing, but dressing something up as an improvement when it is not
means that the press will just bin it.
i remember the one about the alarm system in sheltered housing being an "improvement".
the users disagree vehemently.
the truth is that central government cuts have meant that
local authorities have had to pool resources in order to keep a service going.
if a press release said as such then people would be more inclined to take notice. - You may well be right Howard, but I'm not comfortable with the word propaganda.
They are written in a certain style.
It is true that joint-working is increasing across East
Kent.
Roger - Yes the word for this nowadays is spin. Everybody dresses everything up in a kind of rose-coloured PR way these days. Im afraid its the nature of
the beast now and wont go away anytime soon. Politicians do it, businesses presenting their annual returns and so on so forth do it, well almost everybody does it.
The day is gone, if indeed it ever was, where a company or an
authority or a politician will say...well we cocked up on items A, B, and C, we were fair to middlin on D,and E, but at least we hit the bullseye with F.
The headlines would kill them after a statement like that.
"Politicians
cock up everything!"
Its no accident that the modern day Conservative leader is a PR man. Slick and presentable but maybe just a tad unreal. The late great Michael Foot never heard of spin or public relations and people loved him
for it...including me, but alas he didnt make a good leader in the slick modern TV age.
* *
By the way thanks for the comments re the Dour/Heron picture both here and in the forum bit. Just essentially buying some
time on frontpage as working at getting Phil Eyden's Page No 3 complete. Its only been running on half volume, some gorgeous pictures coming in the next day, 7 more large ones, to make it complete and we will run it on the Home Page
too. The Home Page is an empty shell which can be used by various pages. - Trouble at the port www.thisiskent.co.uk
- thanks for that kathy, looks like a story that will run and run.
paul
i was referring more to the council explaining why a cut is being made.
a lot of the public are
unaware of cuts in government funding to local authorities and automatically think that their local council is to blame. - That is a fair point Howard, a lot of people
think that it is just the 'Council' that take the money, but forget about the Police, Fire and the small District Council chunk - Although google mapping can be
considered an intrusive tool it also has advantages for people who have an interest in the area. It definitely makes the world a smaller place. - looks like gwyn has been
right all along.
3 major ferry companies appear to have been used, looks like the legal people will be on "an earner" here.
so where does the privatisation go from
here? - I don't think it is a shambles at all; I understand their (the ferry companies) anger is due to a levy being put on them by DHB to go towards the cost of
T2.
No idea what that levy is, but it must be quite big to raise this much anger.
They both need each other; striking is obviously not an answer, but legal action is - it
seems.
Roger - Roger as I understand it the levy is £60million...on top of that it appears the cost to the operating companies is going up by something like
35%. Im just getting this information secondhand as it were, so cant guarantee accuracy but those are the figures being mentioned.
By the way Gwyn did manage to raise this matter in The House yesterday as mentioned above in his
statement. I just caught a brief glimpse of the moment last night on TV. - Caught the news and Prosser put good number of questions on Dover Harbour
Board. - It seems you can ride rough shod over the departed staff, the current staff and the people of Dover, when it is finance involved it is a different ball game and Bob and his
cronies have been rumbled at last. Keep up the pressure Gwynn. - blimey paul, that photo arrived a bit sharpish.!!
did you stay up all
night? - By Jove, she's done it! and what a gal she is too. So approachable, extremely pleasant and down to earth, a joy to meet.
Her sister Nicola, also a
lovely girl with the same super accent as Christine was there to support her big sister. She told me that Mam & Dad were waiting anxiously at home in Belfast, Mam was particularly worried that Christine might meet a tanker on her way, so
I bet she is one very relieved not to mention a very proud Mam this morning.
Well Done Christine on raising so much money for Sport Relief, a great
achievement! - Well done Christine,saw Adrian Childs go through the station last night,wish he sort that beard
out. - lol! Howard..ah yes all for the cause, certainly up early and propped up by double consumption of caffeine. We actually have more pictures but I figured the ones above cover
it in simple vein. Really like the top shot from Colette..a bit of a cracker..ermm Im talking about the photograph!..although...
But seriously though a very well done to Christine
Bleakley. - Well done, few believed that it could be done !!
- Congratulations Christine!
It must have been difficult especially getting back up on to your ski after falling into the cold sea! Well Done in raising such a large amount of monies for such a good cause. - Well done Christine. You must feel so pleased to have got across the channel, especially after the delays during the week. I hope you have warmed up from the very cold sea! Lots of money raised for Sport Relief.
- Congratulations indeed - a far from easy task.
100 minutes, fell 8 times and the longest stay upright was 15 minutes, so a girl with a lot of pluck, courage and strength -
mind and body.
Well done. - Yes well done to christine and such a lovely lady as well was such a pleasure to meet her and the money raised by it will go to such good
causes i'm sure.
They said on the show on friday that she was the first woman to cross the channel on skis at this time of the year.
- My daughter and her friends
went along to the evening and were full of how charming Christine was. Well done her! - Yes, Christine was very charming and spent a lot of time talking to us all and stopping
for photos. (In fact the whole of the One Show crew were very friendly.) Even in the morning on the way down the beach to her skis Christine didn't mind being stopped for personal photos when you would have thought her mind was on the
task she was about to undertake! - Dear Paul,
Thank you for your E Mail and kind comment. Yes I do have some comments to make. There has been so much Madi ((ex army types
will know what I mean) flying around the corridors of power in Dover
this last week, it fair makes ones head spin. What with the ferry companies and Dover harbour board fighting like rats in a sack, one can only hazard a guess where
it will all end?? One thing I am certain of it will definately not be the courts. If that happens then we the poor "Stuffed" public may just get a glimpse of how things are really run in the port, and the only way we are going to
find that out is if the port is privatised and consequently the books are open to public scrutiny,so roll on privatisaion.
My other comment for this week is a rather touching "thank you" to our "DEAR LEADER" and his
excellant team of wreckers.
I am of course referring to the Asda debaucle.
I must admit perhaps I have under estimated the abilities of our "DEAR LEADER" and his team. I do not know of another council who profess that they are so
keen to attract investment to the town, but some how manage to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory.
How is it possible that the council could, after all these years of false hopes finally put the wind up a firm of Asda's size
and power
to finally make them fling in the towel.??
The next question to be put to the people of Dover is what firm in there right mind is going to invest in Dover??I do not think I am being over pessimistic when I say none,on the
other hand I would love to be proved wrong, but I feel pretty confident that it aint gonna happen for a long long time.
I suppose it is a bit unfair of me to continually carp on about the St James area without coming up with a few
suggestions. Trouble is the more I try and come up with a solution the more my head begins to ache.
How about moving the council offices from Whitfield to the St James area?? and perhaps our "DEAR LEADER" will start to appreciate
just what sort of environment it is down there. How about a land fill sight ?? the council could bury all there inane plans and even get Kent county council to landscape it, that would save some money right?? And finally when it is
landscaped we could have a dog racing track,because lets face it there would be less rubbish coming out of dogs than there is coming out of our council - I must say I am
rather taken with the idea of moving the Ivory Tower down to St James...............along with the paid reps who work for us. - Jimmy
I think that your comments are borne
out of ignorance of the facts and the easiest of scapegoats is the Council - like we all like to blame the Government, in many cases.
I know in the local paper it ASDA were blaming DDC, you wouldn't expect otherwise would you ?
One of ASDA's demands, was full control over the car-park, and only for their own customers; this can only happen if it's an out of Town site.
The other main reason put forward was their building; their own design was put
forward and planning permission passed on it; to come along later and downgrade it to a big shed in the middle of Town would have meant that we would have lost one big ugly building on its end, to an ugly one on its side.
The real
reason was more likely competition and land-ownership issues: competition from Morrisons (we already have Aldi, Somerfield, M & S, Nettos) and with their Folkestone Store not doing very well, they had become reluctant to spend so much
with a (perceived) less rosy future.
Landownership issues - blame those who refused to sell, those who were hanging on for a higher price, when they knew when they bought their property that this development was coming along, but
would not acknowledge that later and so hung on for higher price; they are the ones who have cost us this, because if they had not been so greedy, the development would have been built by now.
Blame them, blame ASDA, but don't blame
DDC - not this time.
Roger - A very good response there Roger .Yes it was greed that meant ASDA pulled out .Greedy landowners and ASDA wanted the high
profit .The Car Park issuie is a red herring .Over in Tenderten the car park behind Waitrose is run by the council therefore you can visit the town and other places of interest.If there had be no control of the car park on DTIZ many
people would have just parked there whilst going to work .
Jimmy you are not aware of the full facts and I think your shouting at the Leader did your posting no credit .People like you never go to a cabinet meeting or any other
meeting of the council .The only ones people are interested in is planning ,
The report in the local paper was completely biased and I think DDC should have responded .
Of course all councillors are dissappointed .You try reading
all the agendas , attending presentations and countless meetings .
Do you think its a case of a meeting in the pub a swift half and a hand shake to cemment a deal .Everything has to be accounted for .The legal process is a nightmare
.
If you dont like the repesentation at Whitfield you can always stand at the next election in May,
There is hardly a queue of people waiting .In fact quite the opposite .People like Roger and I get a little tired of the
snipes
I dont suppose the shareholders of ASDA wanted to back a loser with all the other competition . .
- Sorry I blame them95%, anything is better than nothing,and I
have said this before that building would not have looked like a big tin shed, I have over the years helped build them and when they are complete and painted they look OK.What the DDC have done now means we all have to look at that mess
again for the next ten years or more,unless we get the rid of the Dover Planners up at the D,D,C,. - Sue
Perhaps you could explain what your
comment "....people like you..."means. For all you know Jimmy could be an ex-veteran who is less abled bodied. One should not generalise.
Also if you are becoming infuriated as you indicate in your posting when you say " I get
a little tired of the snipes..." then perhaps it's time to hang up your hat and relax.
Jimmy is,like anyone else on this forum,entitled to his/her opinion.That's democracy and free speech in action. - I should have added...less abled bodied and therefore unable to attend any cabinet meetings.My apologies.
- Sue .
Next time there will be a queue,and I will be in it with others to. - Sue,I will reword that by saying "My team will be in the queue,because I might not be there
after May 2010 - Vic ,
Did ypou see the revised plans .It would have looked like a shed .The orignal was not that impressive
.
Maybe Jimmy is unable to
attend meetings Marek but there are plenty of posters on here who can attend .
No I dont mind the snipes and Im not going to hang up my hat A little credit goes along way .I try to keep you informed and Roger does the same .
- i do not follow your logic susan, if you get a bad meal when out, you complain.
you don't say to yourself, i didn't like that, i will open a
chippie.
- Just been to church so must now post with peacful comments .
Dont know what you are on about Howard .Please
explain .Vic Im pleased that you have 45 candidates in waiting .
Real candidates not paper ones . - No paper candidates Sue and two will be standing for River. Also have
candidates for the River parish council next time. - Be very afraid .Do you reckon they will get over 1,200 votes Vic .??If they stand for
River Parish Council I hope they are local .
I might even give the old Parish Council another whirl .I did have to get the votes each time not co-opted The Parish Council is not political . - sorry vic, i do not see what relevance the UKIP would have to a parish council.
people are mainly supportive of your party because of the stand taken over our
sovereignty. - Hi all,
Just thought I'd post about our experience today at one of Dover's restaurants.
For a change we decided to go out for Mothers Day and booked in for
the Mothers Day menu at Christo's Restaurant in the County Hotel. We've never actually been there before as we've never been inspired by the outside of the hotel being that is hidden below Burlington House but once you've stepped
inside you have entered a clean, well decorated and welcoming place. All the staff at the restaurant are welcoming and there for your every need. First of all we went in the bar for a drink and were welcomed by the barman who had an
asortment of drinks for you to enjoy and then we enjoyed the ambience of the bar which was clean, welcoming and well decorated with pot plants and wood pannelling.
Afterwards we were taken from the bar and into Christo's
Restaurant where we were all made welcome. The waitresses were very quick are taking down our orders and also very nice to their customers. The room itself is huge and cleanly decorated with wooden pannelling on the walls, and artistic
pieces of work to make you feel relaxed and comfortable. The view outside where we were as well was nice even with Townwall Street outside as we could see the seafront.
All the food was freshly prepared with fresh vegetables and
an asortment of meat for the carvery - beef, turkey and pork as well as a vegetarian tart option that my mum really enjoyed. The chef was also really helpful in helping us dish up our food and allowing us time to choose what we wanted
and try new options.
The whole place is welcoming, friendly and has a warm atmosphere. You do not feel rushed and are allowed to relax and enjoy the food cooked on the premises and just have a nice time in a very nice
setting.
Even though the outside is unappealing, the inside is welcoming and friendly, the staff are the same and extremely helpful and the food enjoyable.
I recommend Christo's at the County Hotel to anyone and give it 10/10
as we also very much hope to go down there again. Todays menu of a starter (we had soup), carvery (turkey/beef/pork or vegetarian option) and a desert (strawberry cheesecake/chocolate gateau or lemon merangue) plus tea/coffee with
chocolates at the end cost £12 each and I very much recommend you all look for the deals as the place is really nice.
Tez
- Interesting one there Tez about the
County. I remember we did a story on the place several years ago and we spoke to the manager who was there at the time...long gone now. We wondered what it was like to try and run a business with the shadow of the axe hanging over it,
due to the immimence of the DTIZ development.
You are right, it is quite pleasant in there, We had a small birthday dinner there once and enjoyed the comfortable bar. But sadly we were the only people in the restaurant and it had
an air of gloom about the whole process. The grim reaper was waiting at the door.
I am amazed despite the difficulty of their situation that they have managed to keep going, whereas for example a place like The Churchill with no
gloom hanging over it went out of business anyway. But good luck to The County and their endeavours. - "......due to the immimence of the
DTIZ development"
Imminence! Really Paul, it's never been imminent! - Ah..yes ..well indeed Terry. At the time and Im talking quite a few years ago, we did speak to the chap who was
manager there and wondered what it was like running his business in the shadow of the bulldozer...the thing is, naive I know looking back, but at the time we thought it was going to happen. They were struggling with an uncertainty that
they probably need not have struggled with..if I can put it that way as tactfully as possible. - ditz,well what can one say.will it happen or wont it happen,i cant see it
happening today,tomorrow,not in this century in any case.
the only way i can see it happening is if they put grade 2 listing on the site leaving it for a year and a day then demolishing it over night like with brook
house. - MAX
What Isn't happening is the ASDA thing.
You will recall this was going to change the face of Dover.
Now Dover gone backwards,
another 15 years before it moves forward again?
Come over to Canterbury, looks nice, and continues to develope - This shouldn't be doom and gloom - look upon it as
a golden opportunity.
So many people voiced their opinion about ASDA not being good for Dover (I thought it would have been), well now's the opportunity to get what you really want - isn't it ?
If you didn't want ASDA,
what do you want now ?
The project is still alive, just not with ASDA.
Landownership issues, including the County Hotel, were one of the reasons for ASDA pulling out, so you can either congratulate them or blame them; your
choice, depends on your point of view.
Roger - ROGER
Its not realy doom and gloom, and i'm the first to congratulate all moves forward.
but either you
go round the town with your eyes closed, or dont see things.
As a Dovorian its heartbreaking to walk into town. - Roger go and asked the County Hotel if and what their long
term plans are in Dover,I say no more. - Bernard ,Of course Canterbury continues to thrive .A University City with buses going into the centre
every few minutes .A Park and Ride .Dover is surrounded on one side by sea we donot have the population or spend power to enable shops to thrive .
The cheap ones continue but any thing of quality struggles .
I visit
Canterbury all the time .I can get to Canterbury nearly as quick on a bus as it takes to get into Dover .We have continually road works and soon it will be made worse when they repair the Rail bridge
The only shops who manage to
survive are food ,and fast food outlets .
Dover needs to consentrate its main shopping area into one or two streets .There are so many shop units its impossible to let them all .
DTIZ is an opportunity to get a quailty shop there
. - Gold Cuff-Links life style of Council Bosses while Staff and Services are cut or removed.
The Audit Commission report on Council Bosses Gold Cuff-links contracts expose
the reality of our Local Council Structure.Toilet closures and Two week Rubbish collection is just the tip of the Ice Berg.
Our Four East Kent Councils need radical restructure.
How much longer must`Joe Public`have top heavy
Council Tax? - I have received my latest Council Tax bill I pay more for the police than for DDC the Parish Council are 25% so DDC only take 75% more and offer
far more services .Considering what you get from DDC unlike neighbouring authorities we are good.
KCC take the most Time to look into their budgets I think - sue,you
are wrong we have the french and others coming over to shop in this country.when and if ditz is built we as a town will benifit from a strong euro and a weak pound. - Max .
When did you last see hoards of French people in the town?
It does not encourage vistors when so many young people dress down eating ,drinking in the street .I was on the bus yesterday and a young girl
,granted she had a lot of shopping bags however must have started off with track suit bottoms hitched on her hips .When she alighted from the bus her trousers slipped so far her bare bottom was completely exposed .The front just about
covered essentials .What a sight .
Im embarrased if I get a ladder in my tights
Standards have slipped and in this case literally . - Well this has just been send to me
by the East Kent Hospitals University N.H.S. Foundation Trust.....
* *
Trust Board gives go ahead for next stage of the Community hospital on the Buckland site.
The East Kent Hospitals University
NHS Foundation Trust Board decided at its meeting on January 27th to give the go ahead for the final planning stages of the new Dover community to be built on the Buckland hospital site.
The decision to progress the planning
application is dependent on a clean bill of health for the site although initial investigationshave already revealed that the risk of contamination is low.
"This is an important project for the trust and the people of Dover and
the surrounding districts"
said the Foundation Trust Chief Executive Stuart Brin.
"and after the delays caused by the potential flooding on the mid-town site the board is very keen to make sure that we are able to prigress the
work.
As part of the commitment the board also authorised the Trust to explore other possibilties in the unlikely event that the detailed contamination investigations which will be carried out in February-find any serious
problemson the site.
Whilst the Trust has concerns about the future economic climate for the local health services this project remains a priority"said Stuart Brin."When the full plans are developed we will have a clearer view
on the our future funding levels and how we can make the project a reality.
THE End.
* *
You might know all this already but that has just got to me today by
email from the Trust.
- By a strange coincidence there were quite a few of our French brothers shopping in town today, they seem to be
taking advantage of a few bargains. I'm glad I didn't take in the sight for sore eyes you caught on the bus yesterday Sue, Shocking! - Dear Mr. Elphicke and
readers,
gov. want to sell Dover Harbour with its port facilities to cash an easy crop, and then participate with the would be slave-owners of Dover in dividing the revenues on port service: one for you, one for us, one for you, one
for us, while these slave owners sit there doing nothing and counting the money after purchasing a fully functioanl port (two ports, Eastern and Western) which they never built not financed.
But, gov. clearly made clear, this
would be step one, the introduction, after which, they would do the same to many British ports! They are observing us all closely as we go about our daily life in Dover, more than you and I even think, to scrutiny our reactions. They
know that if they get away with it, they will have smashed the democratic will of Dover, and then go on to impose the tyrany on all Britain. The long-term revenues for selling all British commercial ports, and whatever other revenue-
bringing national sovereignty assets they would sell, would put them and private slave owners in possession if billions of pounds yearly, possibly tens of billions, to continue destroying our Country, while the e.u. parliament sit there
doing nothing, destroying democracy, national legislation and national identity, and colonizing us.
- Thanks for showing us that email from the NHS Trust Vic. Always
good to see the info from source as it were. - sue,to answer your question,over the last6 to 8 months,not only french belguims and germans plus some dutch
people. - Please read my report on the sell of the port I have been told that if they going to sell off the port the asking price should be over 1Billion pounds not
the 400million they are asking,so why is it going on the cheap. - Thank you for that Paul I am going to meeting next week so might even get a
update with it. But take it from me it will now be the Buckland site and that is the end of the matter. - CHARLIE
I Do appluad your political point scoring, but lets be honest, your mates in your camp, paulw and barryw have been honest enough
to say sell the port as soon as poss.
surely that conflict between your local tory party and yourself will surface soon.
- a bit unfair keith, chas is his own
man.
even blue barry has always said about the divergence of views in his party. - HOWARD
I don't disagree with you, but there will be some bun
fights.
when leading lights of your party don't share your view
got to come to a head - Is anyone aware there is an on-line petition against the privatisation of
the port?
I have tried to put the address here for you, but the filters on your site won't let me.
Try googling petitions at number 10 dover harbour.
Please pass this information on to anyone you know who is against
the sale of our port. - I think there is some element of truth in what Keef said there as we did have a feature on the differences last week..the Westminster Tory
thinking and the local Tory thinking. Charlie laughs it off in cool style, but there is no doubt there are some differences. As Howard says there, Charlie is his own man and thats fair enough as thats what voters want.
There is
still a lot to play for with this election though. The polls are shifting week by week depending on the latest tv performance, so still all to play for. Gordon Brown of course denies he is planning to sell anything off....but as we stand
not too many people are buying that it seems. - I agree, unfortunately I can see the port being sold off no matter what the outcome of the General Election is, the leaders of
whichever party that wins will more than likely put it out to the highest bidder. I wish all the candidates well in their endeavours, may the man with Dovers best at heart win the constituency. - Our MP Gwyn Prosser has managed to get another question in about the Port just a few short minutes ago, at Prime Ministers Questions...took me by surprise there ,but well done to
Gwyn for keeping the Dover Port plight on the boil. The Prime Minister Gordon Brown said in effect that the Port will not be sold off, he wont act against the express wishes of the local people....so as most people dont want it sold
off...well...I guess that answers the situation albeit in a round about way.
Will try to get the exact words later from both Gwyn and Gordon Brown. - He is
saying that now but if they get back in they will sell and the blues will do the same. - I am the only one standing this time saying do not
sell the port ,and said the same last time, both the main partys Blues last time said "The port must be sold"And the reds saying"No sell off," And at that time I was standing to and I said "no"to a sell off.
This time is the
Reds saying "We must sell the Port and the Blues are saying "No"at this time,and me again am saying the same as I did then "NO sell off"and this time I have a good party backing me up. - Vic no not quite right there as all the main guys standing are against the Port sell-off. You can see the piece above from Charlie and I will quote this small bit from it...
" I
am dead against the sell off! " says Charlie
And Gwyn has been against a Port sell-off since time immemorial even during the last election campaign when it was first mooted. As far as I know there is nobody campaigning in favour
of a sell-off. - VIC
Hello there, at the moment the govt
(lab)is saying no sell off
g prosser has always said no sell off
charlie boy is saying no
sell
but charlies buddies
barryw and paul watty both say sell sell sell
- The Government are saying no forced-sell off and the simple fact is that
it can ONLY be done voluntarily, so by saying there'll be no forced sell-off, is quite true, but it is in their list of things to do - to sell it, make no mistake.
It's not the people of Dover that decide whether it's sold or
not, it's the Harbour Board and the Board have decided that this is what they need to do to raise money for the development.
DDC have raised an objection to it until they can get some guarantees for the Port workers, for Dover
and the local community.
Make no mistake, DDC are on the ball with this one.
Roger - Read into Browns statement what you will but it doesnt say there
will be no sell off and it doesnt say that the public view will stop the sell off - the usual double talk.
So for anyone to state that GB has said no sell off is lacking understanding to say the least.
I still believe that
the road to sell off is open and the govt will not stop it. - Roger.We have seen the D.D.C on the ball before, but that ball is a flat one and does not go where it is
kicked. - Good morning, it's Spring now!
How lovely it would be if Dover Port were administered by Dover Town Council, being a part of
Dover as it is. All revenues would be cashed in by the Town, which would share them with District, County and national Treasury. However, a further port toll needs to be put in place, on all vehicles, except those carrying charity. This
would be similar, to an extent, to what European countries do when imposing motorway tolls. If only ten percent of adequate port toll went to Dover Town Council, the figure would bring in an annual budget to Dover Town considerably
larger than the annual budget of Dover District Council. As DDC would also receive a part of the Port toll, their budget would be even three times higher than that, depending on how the toll be shared out. Kent County and the the
national Treasury would each receive their due share. Adding to the existing port revenues, 50 pounds for each lorry should be charged as Port toll, and five pounds for each car.
Unfortuneately, no-one seems to bother about these
proposals I've been making, and yet, in Europe, motowway tolls are a lot higher than that, as are tunnel tolls under mountains.
If all British ports had this what I'm proposing, than many towns, cities and districts wouldn't need
to receive a penny in form of Government revenue grants to finance their budget. So the national Treasury would also gain from it, for the wider benefit of the whole Nation. - It may or may not be flat, but at least they know what colour shirt they are wearing unlike you Vic !!
- Dover thank you for that,The colour of my shirt has always
been the same Dover and how I can help to get it a better place.,All I have done is try all ways to do it.Yes I have been wrong in the pass at times but that will not stop me.But again thank you for your words about it.But you could be
agreement with me that the ball is flat that is the main thing. What we need is a new ball and I am trying to get one. - agree with you totally, Alexander, as I am
sure many Dovorians would but you try convincing the rest of the world of the fairness of that - Alexander, If we done that over here in the UK all they would do is the same
over on the other side,so no point in it just more cost to the companys and the public. - Not so! The Europeans have motorway tolls, we don't. Wake up, mate! You try
going through some European countries without paying motorway tolls, and see where they send you: back to Britain with a kick up the arse! We're being ripped off by the Europeans, who do what they want, and expect us to renounce even
tolls! - Alexander.I know that,I have work in france and Germany, and others.And what you say is right about the E,U, that is why we in UKIP are saying get out of it.
- well after prime ministers question time and gwyns question together with reply from GB its clear Labour localy and nationally are against the sell off
now on
the other side,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
charlie boys against sell off
paul w in favour of sell off
barryw in favour of sell off
conservative party locally split on this issue
nationally tory party
unclear on there intentions.
- If you read Gordon Brown's answers to Gwyn on PQT he just said that there will be no forced privatisation, at no time did he say
that Labour are against the sell off of the port. - i noticed that posh, i have to admit that politicians are extremely clever in their use of words.
my favourite is
"we have no plans to", translates as "yes we are, but you cannot prove it". - If Dover Harbour were up for sale, what would happen if Blair bought it, imposed a vehicle toll and sat there counting the money, and then used Dover as a
launching pad to get back to power in Parliament? No Shire in Britain would forgive us!
Isn't it better if we make sure Dover Town Council take over the Port? - Keith
is being Keith again.
Brown announced a fire-sale of assets and DHB is one of those assets. He is playing a form of words.
The Conservatives want a review of the decision, a concession won by Charlie and that is more than
Prosser is capable of achieving with Brown. - Lol! Alexander...yes Tony Blair might have the funds to buy it according to the Daily Mail who have an outlandish
compulsion to report continuously on his earning power, and yes indeed he may have more of a chance of buying it than the altogether much poorer Dover Town Council. Alas I doubt if the DTC could raise the 800,000,000 million needed. I
hope I havent put too many zeros there but one tends to lose track of the zeros after a time.
Its a nice idea to have it owned really and truly by the people of Dover but as its a national asset already so everybody in theory
already owns it, although not that you would notice.
The only ones likely to buy it at this juncture are The Port of Calais or Dubai Holdings. Those names have already been touted. So it would fall into foreign hands like much
else. There is also other ways being explored such as a kind of a share ownership thing, which I think was mentioned on here by BarryW...but I think that method is unlikely to raise the vast capital needed in these hard economic
times. - Keith, don't quote me as being in favour or against sell off, I have not and will not make a response on this personally whilst DDC negotiate on matters
relating to the HRO and the transfer.
DDC's position is quite straight forward.
To support the expansion and regeneration investment in
the Port of Dover.
To get the best deal for the public if a transfer or
another method of change goes ahead.
To support the staff in that event and ensure Port pensioners via a fully funded pension fund are supported.
Your simplistic stirring approach does the public no favours,as usual.
- paulw
lovely to hear from you buddy
justy going on your previous election leaflet
presiume you changed your mind then?
have a nice
evening - be fair keith that was 5 years ago.
in some ways things never change, the port is being used as an electoral tool again.
i wonder how the staff
feel about it all? - When you read the clap trap both Mr Prosser and Mr Elphicke go on about it really makes me feel like getting both of there heads and banging
them together .
They both go on as if they really care about the people of Dover. The truth is that they, and there parties dont care a brass farthing about any one apart from there own political careers.
It fair makes me sick
that the local press pander to these pair of idiots,surely there must be some good news doing the rounds??
or is good news in Dover a taboo subject?? - strong words
jimmy, however claptrap means nothing.
what specifically do you not like about what our prospective candidates say? - Jimmy there arg good news stories
everyday but to be fair they don't sell newspapers.One good news story today is the people of Dover have responded to the H4H campaign and the show tomorrow is sold out.
I know 3 of the candidates pretty well,and being a Cllr I am of
course biased but even if I wasn't a member of a party I wouldn't change my vote,in difficult times there is only 1 real person who has fought for Dover time after time,year after year,he lives in the ward and try his hardest thats
Gwyn - Dear Howard Mcsweeney,
I will turn your question around and ask you what exactly you like about our so called candidates??
You must be rather naive if you believe for
one moment that these pair have your best interests at heart. The moment they open there mouths and come up with the party line I find myself giving myself a pinch just to make sure I have not been wafted away to the land of make
believe, which the indications are, that some of our local correspondants obviously have. "No names no Pack drill"
You really do have to ask the question "Can any body of serious mind like any thing a politician says because by the
law of averages the have to be lying to 50% of there local electorate at any given time" and that is only to become a prospective candidate. - jimmy
your vitriol
is very vague, no indication what irks you so much.
please elucidate.
- "The people of Dover, the seafarers and the port workers all oppose
privatisation."
I am a Port Worker and I do not oppose the sale of the Port. Where did the research behind "all" come from?
- lost me on that one david, could you explain further?
we need some input from those affected. - Mr Long Thank you for your post,as you might know I
am standing in Dover for UKIP I am a Dovorian and standing like in the pass because I do care about not only Dover but the Parishis and Deal .I was out at Whitfield with your Action Group and members of you parish council for the full
two day event ,and Public meeting exhibition.I did get up and talk on how most for you living in Whitfield did not want the constitution of some 6000 house,s to go ahead. You might turn round and say I only done that to get votes,but
sorry that would be very wrong to think that.I would like to add to my post but on my way out but will be back later on,and if it is your wish,for me to say more about then I will. Vic Matcham - Dear Paul,
Have read your comment further down the page that as far as you are aware there is no one campaigning for the sell off of the port.
Well let me
put you straight on that one I am all in favour of the ports sell off.
The only thing missing in my campaign is a political party, only a minor detail I know, but I have faith that all the present day parties wont be able to pass by a
quick buck or two. That is my secret weapon the only other thing I need is human nature,s greed - Dear Vic Matcham,
Thank you for your comment
I am pleased that
you made the effort to attend the two day event at Whitfield. I have to say perhaps you have been miss informed about local opinion with regards the construction of 6,000 new homes. There are many of us residents of Whitfield who
welcome the coming development, albeit a minority at the moment but minds can be changed.
One thing that will be of benefit in any development will be the construction of new facilities ,schools shops transport links, dare I
mention it possibly a youth club for the youngsters?? people will come to the local area with fresh ideas. Whitfield cannot be allowed to isolate itself from progress . What with the currant political situation where no one can
guarentee that they will have a job a year from now are we seriously suggesting that Whitfield pull up the shutters and cosy down in the past. I live in Whitfield and like it very much, however I am not prepared to condone a policy
that means that we will be excluded from the benefits of progress and if that means 6,000 new homes then I welcome every last one of them - thank you again for a good
post Mr Long sorry to say I have just got back in,now out again but now i have seen both sides and that is very good,i will post back about this when I have time,but please email at any time if you feel there is a need to,and I will only
be to happy to come back up and talk to any group, Thank you. vic matcham - Mr Jimmy Long, if we had a democratic debate, in the true sense of
Democracy, where the local British citizens resident take part, and issues are debated over a period of at least weeks, even months, before being voted on, I am sure neither the port privatisation and sell-off you advocate, nor the
construction of six thousand houses in Whitfield would be approved. Concerning the Port, because we Dovorians have dignity and are not up for sale, this is a majority fact, whatever a minority might dispute to the contrary. In the case
of thousands of new houses, because we all know that almost all occupants would be from mass immigration that has been imposed on us against the Nation's desire by e.u. agenda governments. May-be you confuse the limited Garden of
England with Canada, which has twenty million citizens, but is more than 30 times larger than Britain. Unfortunately, your views are rammed down peoples' throats because we have no Democracy to withstand them. Alexander,
Dovorian. - Dear Vic,
thank you for your kind offer with regards you coming back to address any group at Whitfield. At the last count I do believe the grand total of
my group is one, but I am working on it,watch this space!! - Mr long that does not matter one or 100 if you would like to meet me over any point that can be done.Thank
you. - Dear Alexander,
How on earth can you accuse me of ramming my opinions down any ones throat, by my own admission I am a majority of
"ONE". If I do draw any support for my views then that can only be construed as democracy in action , surely even you must agree, or am I being obtuse?? - Jimmy, you
say you love Whitfield, and would welcome the 6,000th new house to be built up here. Do you place a maximum on the number of house`s you`d like to see built up here? And, do you have any love for the rural area`s surrounding Whitfield,
or would you be unmoved if it were all to disappear forever under a very enlarged Whitfield? - All I can say about this Mr Long does have a right to say and put his side of the
story,and he has done that in the right way, I might not agee with him but he has that right,so please do not try to stop him,he is only doing what we all do. Thank you. - Dear Alexander,
I must say I find your comment rather perplexing when you say we need a "true democratic debate" what on earth are we doing now?? we are having a democratic debate. You put your views, and I put mine .It is
up to others to make up there own minds who they wish to believe.
I am pleased to inform you that I am not a Dovoronian what ever that is supposed to mean. However that does not mean that I do not care about what happens locally
because I care as much as any dovoronian, probably more than some.
It would appear that people like you seem to be rather blinkered when it comes to what is best for Dover.
It is no use you telling me that local matters should be
debated,and I quote your own words (over a period of weeks,even months) as local matters have been debated not weeks or months but years and look where it has got us,absolutely nowhere.
To be perfectly honest your so called dignity
would not be worth a jot if it were to be put up for sale.
As for your premise that any houses built at Whitfield would be filled with mass immigration imposed by the European union is an utter nonsense. you really ought to get out
a bit more and travel around the world as I have done.
I do not confuse England with Canada as I have been to both and yes I do know there is a differance in size and population. So having seen the best of both countries I chose to
return to the country of which I have the highest regard and that country will always be England as there is no other country in the world which can match its tolerance, compassion and care for the under dog,even dovoronians.
- Dear Colin,
I did not say I love Whitfield I said I like Whitfield there is a difference. In answer to your question whether I would welcome 6,000 new houses the
answer has to be an emphatic yes.
In answer to your second question do I love the country side surrounding Whitfield no I don't "Love" it I like it but I am afraid I cannot get passionate about it. I come from Scotland and have
always referred to the surrounding area as "the plains of Kent"
- from listening to people who live in whitfield they seem to love the countryside that is left and
want to keep it.
incidentally the 6000 homes is a bit of a "pie in the sky" thing, it is the maximum figure available for developers.
- Dear Howard
mcsweeny,
I have to agree that the proposed 6,000 houses proposed for Whitfield are undoubtably "Pie in the sky" how ever that does not change my opinion on the matter.
As for the people of Whitfield who seem to love the
surrounding area that is there right, it is also my right to have my own opinion on the matter.So lets just say we agree to disagree. - Sorry Jimmy, I mis-quoted you
there regarding like/love. My wife and I have spent most of our holidays in Scotland, where you originate from. It`s always north of Inverness for us, purely for the unspoilt land that abound`s north of the border. Would you not deny
that to us down here? I like what is left of rural Whitfield, and would not like to see it gone forever. - Colin
just as an aside
I have relatives who live in cambletown
in Scotland
on public transport would you know the best way to get there?
or does any other reader know? - I noticed the other day when I walked past Morrisons that the
grass had been freshly mown. Sad that no-one had bothered to pick up all the detritus at the same time. But that's demarcation for you. "I only cut the grass mate!" - Funnily enough I walked past the Dour next to Morrisons yesterday and was disgusted by the amount of crap people seem to think it is ok to chuck into the river. My eye was drawn by the beauty of the river but my stomach was
turned by the neglect. And it is local reps neglect, not local people - I know how much some local people put into keeping the Dour lovely. - Showing my age now, but i remember
outside Morrison's when river wasn't overgrown, and was tidy
was some years ago
but i remember it being clear - Would I be right in saying that the rubbish isn't
collected from the areas not underwater as in 1. It's a Floodplain or 2. Due to the toxic waste the fish have grown feet, so, "Brown Trout!" - The first White Cliffs
Countryside Project Dour clean will be on the 27th April at 10:00 - meet by Morrisons. These should continue until October or November.
We always start at Morrisons, and usually clear Barton Path, Pencester and the back of Dover
College. All volunteers most welcome! - Hi Phil thanks for that info. That's good news and should please some of the people such as Peter above
who are exasperated by the rubbish situation. I saw in the new issue of Doverlife Magazine just delivered to me this very day by ColetteB, who also delivered pictures from last nights show, more to come on that eventually,..but yes back
to Doverlife Magazine(hope you all have your copy) which has an article on the Dour page 25 which says that the River Dour is the best Brown Trout habitat in Kent according to the Environment Agency..so there you are, another gem of
information, I didnt know that... a good article there.
But one further ponder...if the guys from the White Cliffs Countryside Project can get into the River why cant the DDC ?? there may be a 'green' reason for this but many
would like to know I'm sure. - As someone who is looking to moving back into the district Mr Long is very much wide of the mark of my opinion, I am going to be
looking away from Whitfield for my move, I had considered it because of the countryside surrounding it and the opportunity to walk my dogs, however after seeing the proposed developement I shall steer clear.
I am all for planned
sustainable development however where exactly are the jobs that go with this increased housing? I am fortunate in that I have a stable job, what about those less fortunate in this economic climate.
No , I shall look further a
field, I just hope Tilmanstone or Eastry arent going to be getting lots of houses. Although saying that, adding 10 - 30 houses to all the smaller villages around the district would gain houses and not have a large impact upon just one
place. Surely that would be better or am I talking sense and that is to be ignored? And I am sure it would help local services such as the buses to be utilised more, and therefore sustain transport links. Again, too much sense I can
imagine!
Regards
Linda - bit of an old recurring theme paul.
the environment agency take full responsibilty for "improving" the river habitat to encourage
more species.
they then say that whilst doing that they cannot remove rubbish as that is the responsibility of the council.
health and safety of DDC employees, contractors and the trout conspire to leave us and the fish with
this mess until volunteers sort it out. - As far as I understand it, the WCCP work in partnership with Dover District Council, the Environment Agency, DTC, KCC and
many other organisations. I suspect (but am not sure, I'm only a volunteer), that DDC contract the WCCP to clear rubbish in environmentally sensitive areas that are not in SITAs contract. Each has a clear limit of responsibilities, WCCP
clear the non-privately owned sections of river, but SITA only clear the paths and banks. Neither therefore infringe on the others area of responsibility.
I am unclear as to who owns the triangle of grass photographed above, but
suspect it probably belongs to Morrisons. If so, they should pull their finger out and get it cleaned. On the other hand DTC may possibly own it as there was talk of erecting a statue there a couple of years ago. Not sure!
The
Dour always looks its worst this time of year as the Dour does not get cleaned over the winter due to the trout spawning as correctly noted above. Still come May, it should look a lot better after the first clearance task.
The
WCCP are absolutely dependant on unpaid volunteers for the many tasks they undertake - Dour clearances being just one. Ultimately if one has time on one's hands and are fed up with the town and countryside looking a mess, volunteer!
They really are a very nice and friendly bunch of people. - Hello Linda from Herts.
Yes its quite pleasant over there towards Eastry and
Tilmanstone. Nice village life there if maybe a tad quiet for some. I had sunday lunch in the pub there about 3 weeks ago...that pub right in the centre of the village, cant for the life of me remember the name for the moment, where's
my memory going!!lol ..but thats a pub still playing a central role in village life and packed on a sunday. Ive also sampled some of the wine from the near local vineyards over that way...done a bit more than sample it as its very good
and typically English.
Sadly the prospect of thousands of houses is very worrying for many people, the place will change out of all recognition and become Milton Keynes by the sea..arrrgh! But then HMGovernment are urging that
they be built and the local Council officials see it as the path to growth. I suppose its growth of sorts but give me green lush leafy lanes and sumptious rolling wheatfields any
day. - Hi Jimmy Long. I think you invented the term Dovoronians, cause it doesn't come from my text, and that's how one can try to humiliate other people, by
inflicting words in their mouths they didn't use. Still, you can check the texts I wrote, the word you use is definitely of your invention!
Concerning Democracy, the final outcome is always that of the majority wish, so yes, as you
know you stand little chance in that, why not invent a term and pretend it comes from me! - Hello Linda.
There are in fact plenty of empty houses/accommodations in
Dover and area, for rent and for sale, you know! I can't see any reason for building new ones as there is no natural population increase, but mass immigration. Still, I thought I'd let you know, if you are thinking of this area, there
are plenty of accommodations available! - looking at the above pics, i must admit i wish i had been there to see the star turn, ian and his unique ventriloquist
act. - paulb,ian is seranadeing the two young ladies.just one cornetto give it to me,cant remember the rest of the
words. - Was really a pleasure to see all the youngsters perform with such energy, on saturday evening to a packed Townhall for such an excellent cause.
And a very moving
finish to the whole evening so well done to all and well done John the monies raised will go to good use I'm sure. - I am replying to the post on the members club
page about the coaches that visit de bradelei wharf I work down there in the Wedgwood and Doulton dept though not for much longer as we are closing on the 28th march,just our dept not the whole store. As far as i know most of the coaches
we get are normally from the Burstin hotel inFolkestone some times we have7or8 coaches at a time the driver has a free meal
and all the passengers have a voucher for a free cup of tea and a packet of biscuits some times they dont
spend much but it all counts towards the footfall - thanks for that info lynn, sorry to hear about the closure of your department.
i will direct our members to this
page.
as a local have you considered being a member of the forum? - Thank you for all your nice comments,and I would like to thank my BRILLIANT team,I am a
perfectionist when it comes to putting on shows I admit and that was as close to perfect as you can get,and it was not just me saying it.The show was only as good as its weakest link,and we didn't have a weakest link,while everyone
deserves praise one man held that show together and the team know it was Andrew Martyn,as my back stage manager he was the key and he was exceptional,not only converting my ideas but keeping the show tight and he checked all the acts
before hand and he is only about 20.True dedication.
I have heard from Rob Pooley tonight and the H4H desk raised with the bucket collection £809,the raffle organised by our own Sheli and Terri raised £347 thanks to those 2 and the
DCAL girls.
With some money still to come in and providing there are no surprises in the bills,the total at the moment is over £3000.
The people of Dover were superb for supporting the show and we had to turn some people away.Other
forumites were involved including Terry Nunn on the mic who was his usual reliable self Mel Clements Roger Walkden Jeanette Harper all had an input,but the real stars were the young people,who practised for weeks and delievered on the
night,they deserved the best and we tried to give them that.
Our Military men and our young Sea Cadet Phil were outstanding at the finale,I planned the finale to focus everyone's minds on why we were there and it certainly did
that.
To pick out one act would be wrong,but you have to love those 2 youngsters from DODS Jade and Kyra they are real darlings and when I first saw them...I knew what they could do...and what
voices. - Well said John and well done - a great evening for everyone.
The pride and smiles there must have been on all those parents and Grandparents of the youngsters on
stage. Excellant.
Lynn, is the department closing because there's nothing new coming through from Wedgewood and Doulton ? Am I right in remembering that they have ceased trading ?
I've bought several items from that
department over the years.
Roger - Roger
In answer to your question wedgwood went into receivership in jan 2009 they were then taken over in march 2009 by
an american equity company while these proceedings were going on there was massive redundancies in the stoke area mainly in the manufacturing side( over 300) Most of the products are now made in the new plant built in Indonesia the only
items still made in England are comissioned pieces .Even Waterford which is renowned to be Irish made is not anymore but comes from poland .So over the last 12 months stores have been closing we are one of three closing this time Hornsea
and Cheshire Oaks are the other two, - Thanks for nice comments John,I enjoyed helping out at the Show and working with the lovely ladies from DCAL.
But the thanks
with regard to the Raffle really have to go to the generous People and Businesses in Dover that donated such an array of prizes.
Great sum of money raised for a worthy cause.
Sheli
x
- I'd prefer Alison to Lord Charles on my knee anytime lol!
Seriously though, John Goodwin and Andrew Martyn put together a fantastic show, I have heard
from so many quarters that the youngsters did themselves proud with so many professionally polished acts, Well Done!
Also John and team, Congratulations on raising such a vast amount of money for a deserving cause. - Hi Lynn
Thanks for that - sad but interesting.
Will you carry on working at Be Brad's, but in a different department ?
I didn't know that Hornsea pottery was
part of the group and was closing; we went to Hornsea up in Yorkshire I think it was, on the coast.
Roger - Breaking port news on the Dover Express Facebook
page. For the latest go to www.facebook.com and search for Dover Express. - thanks for that rhys, quite a bolt from the
blue. - Indeed it is Howard, I must admit I did not see it coming myself. But it has to be a positive development, a tentative green shoot of recovery if you
will.
Also, I would advise all Forumites who also frequent Facebook to become fans of the Express page because it's a great way to find out first and fast when there is breaking news. - This will break the stranglehold France has had on Dover since the links to Belgium were severed, P&O will be able to divert to Belgium now in the event of the inevitable blockades
of the French Ports, as they always used to. - I have tried to access the Dover Express on Facebook .What is the breaking news??
- Sue the breaking news is that P&O have announced that they are launching a new service to Zeebrugge from Dover. A positive move and maybe a sign that the recession is beginning to
be over..or to put it another way, we may be seeing the green shoots of recovery sprouting up all around us. Although perhaps thats going a bit too far... - It
might be in preparation of a flood of e.u. refugees to Brussels after the coming General Elections! - interesting thought alexander, usually after each election our
failures retreat to the brussels rest home to earn 3 times as much for doing nothing.
bless them. - looking at pauls pic i suppose a cynic would rejoice with
the thought that they can do very little damage when asleep. - Just a further mention on the rise in cigarettes..I meant to add this to the copy above, the 1% rise
mentioned in the editorial above, equates to 15p on a packet of cigarettes..thats quite a substantial rise.
When you see the recent thread in the Members Club Forum called "Dont Buy Those Cigarettes!" about the huge problem
with cigarette smuggling in this area, well you can guess that this rise in tax will only encourage further attempts at smuggling. You can count on that one.
We have seen also as mentioned above the rises due on alcohol and there
is also a rise due on petrol albeit more staggered. So although it was a Budget prior to an election, its still a toughish budget. Perhaps its Labour being seen to do the right thing. Alastair Darling I think gave Labour a boost
here. - I see we have our own P.R. man in Andy telling you about the bargains to be had in the Wedgwood dept at De Bradelei and you only have until sunday to cash
in also some of the Waterford pieces are 75% off and they are still the Irish made ones.Most of the 50p items are discontinued stock and seconds mainly white blanks that were deemed not good enough to decorate(wonder where they were
made) answers on a postcard please,and in answer to Roger no I will not be working in another dept at De Bradelei as no positions available at this time It is a sad time but most people do not want to buy Wedgewood or Royal Doulton with
a paper label stuck on the bottom stating made in Thailand - Lynn have you worked there a while as my daughter Rachel Goodwin worked there for a
while - Paul - are you sure? if 1% increase is 15p that means a packet of cigarettes is £15, now I knew they were dear but not that
dear. - Thanks Lynn - sorry to hear you will have to find another job; I would have thought that another department would just take over the area vacated by Wedgewood, so the
same number of people would still be needed.
I'm sure you are dead right about people not wanting to buy pieces of Wedgewood or Doulton with "made in Thailand" (or China for that matter) on the bottom.
Good news from P.
& O. they must feel the expansion makes good business sense.
Roger - Ah Ross..you may have spotted todays deliberate mistake there...there were two conflicting
messages on the news programmes, C4 said cigs had gone up 15p per packet. I have no actual idea myself what cigarettes actually cost so assumed C4 news at 7pm to be accurate.
But just to re-emphasise..all tobacco no matter what it
cost has gone up 1%. I think we better stick with the percentages. Thanks for letting me know. - Oh dear Barryw
One national paper is putting tories just 2
points ahead in polls
that hung parlianment getting closer - With the warmer weather I have been out and about this week .I think Mr Prosser needs to watch out
.Nothing like a challenge and Im really fired up for getting a good result for Charlie .
- Re the Two and a half sisters thread, I think the masts are on MOD land, i.e.
crown property which I believe means no planning permission is required. They can do what they like unfortunately. - with all the peripheral parties involved susan, this will be
a really close run thing.
i think that chas has a slight edge at the moment, but so many things happen during a campaign at both national and local level.
the port will be used as a political football, that you can be sure
of. - Request for clarification.
Dear Mr. Gwyn Prossor, I have been getting conflicting prognosis on my screen. One is that within a few years, may-be four, the
deficit will rise from 870 odd billions to one pont 4 trillion; the other is that the deficit will be halved by Labour if they win.
Could you offer us a way of figuring out what is actually going on in the maths class, it's hard
enough for me to elaborate on these figures even at their lowest, the bulbs keep burning out.
Thanks! - Hello all on Dover Forum, an article of mine has been printed in
Dover Mercury on the letter column concerning Dover Port. - Well done wiith that Alexander..unfortunately I didnt get near a shop today being out and about elsewhere so
havent seen it, but tomorrow will be getting both papers and will look forward to having a look at it then. Well done with that, will be interesting to read it. - BrianC - I am not sure they are MOD land any more, but previously there have been planning applications for the site...
- blimey paul, i cannot keep with
your changes to the frontpage.
this is getting more like a daily newspaper every day. - lol! Howard yes its all happening. I can hardly keep up with it all
myself. Never a dull moment here in Dover eh !?
Would even have liked to put Scotchies picture of the Three Sisters or now Two and a half Sisters also here but cant fit it all in. But great work by Scotchie getting that picture
which everyone can see in the Members Club.
Absolutely shocked by the news about Roger. - You're right Howard, we're Buzzing!
I feel the same
about Roger, Appalling! - Thats a nice pic of Roger there, Paul, I remember that night when all seemed so positive on his involvment with the Chamber. I'm absolutely lost
for words on hearing this shocking news of his sacking. - good to hear posh, i know how much blood sweat and tears that you three have put in over the past
few years. - Roger very sad to hear your news. I know how hard you have worked and you always had the interest's of the town at heart.
they will be hard pressed
to find somebody with your energy and hard working nature good luck. - Alexander - I have just spotted this that you posted:
"""""Request for
clarification.
Dear Mr. Gwyn Prossor, I have been getting conflicting prognosis on my screen. One is that within a few years, may-be four, the deficit will rise from 870 odd billions to one pont 4 trillion; the other is that the
deficit will be halved by Labour if they win.
Could you offer us a way of figuring out what is actually going on in the maths class, it's hard enough for me to elaborate on these figures even at their lowest, the bulbs keep burning
out.
Thanks!""""""
I can very easily answer this. The Government would like you to read 'deficit' as 'debt' when they refer to halving the deficit over 4 years.
These are very different beasts and you are
mixing them up.
The deficit is the amount being spent each year over and above what the Government receives income. In other words they say they will halve the amount they are overspending. To put it simply the £167bn they
spend more than they earn a year, will reduce on their figures to £74bn.
Yes, a 'mere' £74bn, that is truly horrendous and allow also for the fact that this has been based on excessively optimistic growth figures we are and
will remain truly in the s***.
Imagine having to pay a mortgage of £1,000 a month and having only an income of about £800 a month. That is what its like, how long could you manage to do that? The shortfall of income is being
made up by more borrowing, factor that in and you dont ned to be a financial adviser to see the problem.
The £1.4 trillion is the total debt amount expected by 2014. If we lose the UK's AAA rating the cost of servcing that debt
will rise meaning bigger cuts and/or a bigger debt. Of course that cost is also riseing along with the increase in the debt.
We cannot go on like this.
- Thanks Jan - and every one who has posted.
The thing (well, there are many) that really sticks in my throat is that The President of the Chamber, Cameron McSween, has put out a news-release saying I have not been sacked,
I resigned because they wouldn't/couldn't pay me more than £9,500.
I had been willing to continue unpaid for a while longer until a more realistic salary offer was made, but this was NOT an option, I was NOT given the choice, I
was SACKED on Wednesday evening.
Many people who know me, also know the money wasn't the main reason for me doing the job, Dover and the businesses here were the reason.
I had the audacity to question them, to write
directly to the Board of the Chamber, to advise them and ask (very respectfully) for change.
I have been stabbed in the back, but Cameron has shot himself and the Chamber in the foot by doing what he (and the Strategic Director)
have done.
The only ammunition I have, is the truth and I must use that to let people know what really happened.
Roger - Roger
I have posted
elsewhere on this subject
I wonder as your more on the inside(well were)
how the chamber could of afforded such a big increase in salary? - Thank you Keith.
The
Chamber (Cameron MacSween, the President) went to DDC, DTC and DHB for funding - he may well have gone to other bodies telling them about DBS, asking for funding, DHB gave money for a specific purpose but refused to give money to DBS;
DTC and DDC gave money to the Chamber; DTC have £9,500; DDC pledged £10,000 and gave £2,500 on the 23rd. of March and the Chamber could apply for the rest, as and when.
This is not though, about money, I'd been working unpaid for
over four months; a few more days or weeks wouldn't have made much difference; it was about the fact that I had not signed up more businesses and went and emailed the Board at the Chamber and this caused them so much anger they felt
they could not work with me any more, so sacked me - pure and simple.
Roger - In other words Roger you rocked the boat I seem to have been there myself
- PaulB - That is extremely poor piece there and I want to lodge a strong objection to your interpretation of what I said. A simple breakdown in communication, a lack of a
mere curtousy, was the issue as there was no operational need for me to be informed. I made that quite clear in my post.
No factions taking control at all, merely devolved responsibilities.
That is the kind of journalism
that you see in The Sun. Please get back to the real world. - Well...I note your objection BarryW but I dont think anything I said there is too wild an assessment or
too revolutionary. It certainly looks the way described above to the onlooker. But then this is part of what PR is about...if its seen that way then the Chamber PR wasnt good in this
matter. - PaulB - exactly!!! It is of no use for an organisation to say "it may have looked this way but it was actually that way..." because PR means ensuring
the smooth communication pathway and messages delivered appropriately. And that is exactly what Dover does so badly. - spot on bern, i do not think that there is necessarily any
factions being formed, but clearly the PR side of things does give that impression.
bad pR does seem to be a local speciality. - PaulB - I cannot deny that
the whole episode is indeed a PR disaster and something both the Chamber and Dover can do without. But that is not exactly helped by a journalist taking a comment out of its context and spinning it to create a headline in such an
irresponsible manner. I made it clear that there were no issues around accountability and the correct line-management was involved in the process and decision making. You ignored that aspect of what I said because the truth gets in the
way of a good manufactured story. - Many thanks Barry W for your specification. I fully agree with you, that even 74 billion pounds of deficit in one year is a
horrendous figure, and I still can't contemplate it, maybe with a box of domino I might manage to piece together various expenses and incomes the State manages in a year, but even then, if one fell, they all go!
- This isn't though, a manufactured story. Roger tells us he was sacked - I have no reason to disbelieve him. Roger has demonstrated over and again his committment
and energy for Dover businesses, his sound ideas and good network. A decision like that should have been corporate and sensitively handled - in truth it should not have been taken at all, and shows starkly how out of touch the CoC (I
really must resist the additional C---K) is and gives us the best possible indocator of the level of competence and local knowledge pooled there. - I made the observation last
week that the ferry companies and dover harbour board were fighting like rats in a sack. Seems like I have touched on a raw nerve and the chamber of commerce and local press people have decided to get in on the act as it sure is
creating a storm on the Dover forum.
Oh well, I suppose it does keep you all united in disarray. Lets face it is as near to unity as we have seen in a long time. - hardly disarray jimmy, it is called heated discussion.
can you explain how the local press have "got in on the act"?
you state that it "keep you all in disarray", as a member here surely you should say
"we"? - ROGER
Just on the question of affordability,
looking into this issue further, a letter has been circulating saying that the £9,000 given by town
council to the chamber that was for Rogers wages(or towards)
chamber stated in the letter that this has not been spent and will be when they find a suitable person for the job.
so
the story
unwinds,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, very very slowly - A sad day. Roger, hope you rise again, above the petty polilticking nonetities. Shame on them,
- They obviously thought I wasn't suitable Keith - after working on and developing plans to help move Dover foward and supporting and promoting
businesses for over 4 months - unpaid.
I'm not a puppet willing to have my strings pulled; I have a mind of my own and use it.
I just want to say a word or to about BarryW.
Barry is the most honourable of men and I
hold him in very high regard. If Barry believes me (about being sacked) then that is good enough for me and will I'm sure resolve the issues.
Dover Town businesses are also very concerned about what they've lost and what they
may get in my place; which is being worked on now (so I understand).
Roger - ROGER
I'm not sure about your vew of Barryw and won't go there.
On
the actual case what I have, and will say if Barryw supports your line(thats unknown)
then maybe the board should be questioned further?
I fully understand as Chair Barry's in a difficult position, but from his few postings
although he's maybe not over happy with way the decision was made, he is happy as chair to go along with the decision.
ROGER
you may or may not have seen the letter put out by the commerce which reached Town cllrs hands, and
in it they are indicating you were not the man for the job, and the £9,000 allocated towards a managers salary hasn't been spent yet, but will be when they fnd the right person.
I can only presume Barryw happy at the content of
that letter? - I still think we will see a come back with Roger geting his job back,if he will take it on.
- Not if the same constraints are there Vic.
Roger - Roger they will be and so will you.You are a fighter and
think to much of your Town to let this stand in your way,and we are all behind you. - Thanks Vic
But as in an email I've just had in, I needed the Chamber and
they needed me, together we could have achieved a lot for Dover and the businesses, but they have dismissed me, so I have no body of support to allow me to go
forward.
Roger - Roger. I think doors will open for you in the next few days.
- No idea
Vic.
We'll wait and see.
Roger - who is that bloke standing next to victor?
- Just to say that book makes very good reading,you can get it now in any good book outlet.
- Thank you to the Dover Forum and Paul
for doing that,and just to add to that we have Lord Pearson coming to Dover on the 15.4.10 for a whole day. - The Budget and
Dover.
The Budget highlights and puts the spot light on Public Spending and Local Authorities wasteful spending.
Public Spending is a target for Heavy cuts.Having Four Councils of East Kent providing the same services is
Financially Wasteful,unnecessary and unacceptable.
By merging the four councils of East Kent into one would provide enormous economies of scale thereby reducing drastically the need to cut front line services and will save millions of
pounds.
Public Spending in our Local Authorities must be addressed and should be a major local Election issue - Again thank you for that Paul,and the electoral
tide is on the turn. and we will see that at the next Gen Election.We are seeing this aswell when we are out in the streets, only this morning I was being told "YES"WE ARE VOTING FOR UKIP THIS TIME ROUND." - I shall be out in a minute and the vote will be Conservative
- Good luck with all the campaigning
guys. For those who want to see the..eh.. ermm.. charismatic chancellor or those who aspire to be chancellor, dont forget to tune in to Channel FOUR tonight at 8pm. All economoic solutions to all our ills will be forthcoming in fine
style. And hey you at the back..try not to nod off.
But seriously though it should be an interesting clash of sorts. Well, lets see...who have we got!?
Alastair Darling whose Budget recently had them slumping comatose in
the aisles, but who nevertheless is a dour reliable sort who you might just trust with your savings. Labour.
George Osborne, the fresh faced Tory with little experience will be heavily reliant on doing well on this programme. The
nation and the Tories in particular will be holding on tight for a good performance. Conservative.
Vince Cable. Known to one and all as Uncle Vince...his style is easy relaxed and financially astute. Very popular with the humble
voter, who like his good humoured delivery. LibDem.
Dont miss...it Should be fun ! - SUE
Todayyour a tory
yesterday LIB DEM
TOMMOROW?
REG HANSELL
Iv still to be convinced that unitary is the best way forward.
To me it doesn't appear to solve the problem, just move it.
I share the view of having to many councils/cllrs/officers at the higher
level, but yet to be convinced that unitary will solve the problem.
I'm aware of a unitary in SoUTH wales that hasn';t worked,
so I for one need a lot more
convincing.
- usually channel 4 do good quality political debates, might even tune in myself.
providing there is no celebrity dancing on ice in the big
brother house or something else of high quality, of course.
- just looking at the pics of nigel F and victor again.
it does look like vic has just told him
a dirty joke. - Howard. lol i was going to put something else but as im innocent i will refrain!
- Hi Paul,
First of all, could I start off by thanking you for your article on Vic Matcham, our local UKIP
candidate.
However, as the secretary for the Dover & Deal Branch of UKIP, I would be grateful if you would allow me to comment on a couple of points raised. ( as I assume that`s the whole object of the forum! )
You mention in
your article that UKIP are "very anti-European". This, of course, is a common misconception. UkIP are, in fact, PRO-European but anti-European Union. In other words we love Europe but can not agree to be ruled by what amounts to be
an unelected and unaccountable foreign power.
You also mention Nigel Farage`s " daft attack on the new European first minister". Well, UKIP MEP`s weren`t elected to "toe the line" or become conformist during their period of
office and they will therefore take any opportunity to expose that undemocratic assembly for what it really is, simply a gravy train for the political elite. It`s no wonder that Nigel received a rough ride when he appeared on the
Brussel`s Broadcasting Corporation`s ( BBC ) Question Time programme as they suitably placed him in Cardiff in front of what mainly appeared to be an audience of Welsh Nationalists and Labour activists. No surprises there then!
At least most people are now aware that Herman Van Rompuy, the latest EU puppet, receives a "salary" larger than the President of the USA! Furthermore, on the political programme after Question Time, Michael Portillo gave
Nigel`s performance as his "highlight of the week" for bringing to light the fact that this guy who none of us had actually heard of or voted for is technically in charge of 500 million people.
Perhaps I should also mention that
Van Rompuy is now also likely to be installed as the head of an EU economic Government which will just about signal the end of British democracy as our own democratically elected Govt., in Westminster, will be subject to a veto by the EU
over the way it spends our own taxpayers money.
You just couldn`t make it up!
Anyway, thanks again Paul for your article on Vic and the chance to comment. - thanks for that john, a very good read.
you summed up the views of a lot of people with your"pro european but anti european union" statement.
expect
a few replies. - As a Conservative, I cannot find fault with that view; it's a pity that Conservative Central Office don't fully share it, then we wouldn't have
UKIP.
Whatever the next (Conservative) Government do, they must change the way we are ruled in so many ways, by un-elected people in Brussels.
It's time for change - before it's too
late.
Roger - Hello John very good to hear from you, we always welcome a new refreshing voice, so very good to hear from you.
But let me just probe a
little bit further on this line
"pro european but anti european union"
Thats essentially a party marketing line though isnt it... when you consider that almost all of europe is in the european union its hard to love one
without the other. ..unless you mean we just love it for holidays.
Let me paint a scenario though.
Just suppose UKIP won the election and pulled us out of the EU completely. What happens then. The European Union will still
exist. All the rest of mainland europe will be in it and we of course will hugely need to trade with it. Do we then become lovers of the European Union because it represents to us the golden goose tradewise? and recognise it as a power
body for good because without trading with this vast block we would go broke. We would then discover how much we love the thing...wouldnt we?
I hope Im making myself clear..do you see my point.
ie...
in it we all
seem to hate it
outside it we would all need it - Paul.I would just like to point out about trade with the E.U. Most trade with the E.U. is coming in not going
out as we see in Dover with the H.G.V. they come over full up but alot go back with nothing from the U.K.
If we came out of the E.U. this would not stop trade in anyway because the E.U. would still need to trade with us and have
more to lose then we woud have.
But by coming out we could again trade with the whole World.
There are other big issue,s but at this time I am only talking about Trade.
I would also like to thank John for his
very good post and the hard work he puts in for U.K.I.P.
And I hope to see him posting more on the Dover Forum. - vic,you are a lovable
plum.the hgvs you speak about dont do worldwide,no ferries you see.the reason why the hgvs are going back emtey is we are not prouducing what they need. - My sons produce machines
and they are shipped via Harwich .
Sadly we donot produce things which people overseas require .We need more engineers .
Both sons away soon one in Sinapore the other in Norway .More recently USA - Max,That is the point I am am trying to make,they will still need to trade with us if we are in the E.U.or Not.
- A very interesting article. The people in the UK have never been asked if they want to be part of the EU in its current form and in a so-called democracy it's the least we deserve. UKIP is prepared to offer the electorate that
choice as opposed to the Lib Lab Con who are more than happy to keep the status quo.
Reporters from local newspapers across Kent are feeding back that they are noticing renewed interest in and support in UKIP as they go about
their business. It seems folk are fed up with life in the UK being dictated to them by an unelected bunch of bureaucrats. UKIP is the party of choice and liberty and it seems will be getting the votes of many disenfranchised
conservatives at the general election. - 50 per cent say choosing Brown is unthinkable.
51 per cent claim they have no enthusiasm for
Tories.
38 per cent would like a hung parliament.
Is that just me saying that to wind you all up,sorry no it is not.
opinion poll for the Independent.
What UKIP is saying "The public have lost all interest in the
establishmentparties, they can see that there is no difference beween them,and they have nothing positive to offer the UK.
And that is just what we are finding in Dover when we go round with our leaflits. - Thanks a lot PaulB, I'll contact you as soon as possible. I still haven't got a computer up and running, it's under construction, so it will be today or
tomorrow.
Yet I'd like to tell all on Dover Forum that yesterday I received a reply from gov. for the representation I sent on 16th February concerning the Port of Dover. Actually it arrived over two weeks ago but was at my old
address until yesterday.
I've been informed that it will be included among the representations taken into account when the Secretary of State considers the scheme for privatisation. In this letter of the Department for Transport they
have listed the points I have made which are for taking into consideration when the day comes.
I hope gov. likes the ideas! - Out last night Vic in River .Did not get
that message conveyed to me - Thanks for your kind words Paul and the good questions that you have raised and that Vic has already commented on.
I will, therefore, try
and answer your queries and add to Vic`s previous response in as concise a way as possible although to be honest a comprehensive reply would take up a few pages, bore you to death and probably lose most of your readers!
However,
in answer to your first query, the term " Pro-European but anti-Europe " is certainly not a UKIP marketing line. The fact of the matter is that we love the individual characteristics of the many nations in Europe and it`s people but
not the institution in charge of them. It`s as simple as that!
Your other query regarding the EU and " outside it we would all need it " couldn`t be further from the truth. This, of course, is one of many EU myths that
over the years we have all been conditioned to believe in that should we actually dare to leave the cosy, comfortable, secure and friendly EU then as a country we would "all be doomed" and yes, I do watch Dad`s Army!
We have to
remember that up until recently, despite Labours best attempts at trying to ruin us, we were still the 4th largest economy in the world. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever why we couldn`t go it alone. After all, we didn`t do
too bad as a nation before we joined the EU.
On withdrawal from the EU and free from their restraints we would be able to trade with whoever we liked and expand our trading activities to our advantage. It may surprise some that our
trade with Europe would actually remain much the same as it is now.
Trade is a two way arrangement and in this respect they need us much more than we need them. Our imports from Europe far outweigh exports and does anybody really
believe that the germans wouldn`t want us to buy their motor cars or the french their wines and cheese etc?
You only have to observe the vast number of foreign HGV`s coming through the port loaded with goods compared with the few
British trucks making the opposite journey.
Another relevant point to mention on this subject is that two of the richest countries in Europe, Norway and Switzerland, are not even in the EU. We could therefore do the same as
them and replace our EU membership with free trade agreements with the EU and other countries across the world.
I also wonder as to how many people are really aware that our membership of the EU is directly responsible for
increases in our fuel bills, Council taxes, postal services and so on.
Paul, the above is only the tip of the ice-berg. I haven`t even mentioned facts about immigration, the damage done to our fishing and farming industries, the
corruption within the EU, the loss of Sovereignty, green taxes and of course the small fact that we give this political club 45 million a day just to be a member when so much needs to be done here at home for our own people.
Anyway, many thanks again Paul for giving me the opportunity to respond and I hope this goes some way in addressing your concerns.
- Hello again Paul.
I hope you don`t think I`m trying to hog the forum but having another quick look at your question I don`t think I really gave you an answer to
your query re the EU still existing if and when we pulled out.
That in itself is an interesting point. Don`t imagine for one minute that we are the only country keen on withdrawal and if ( although probably unlikely ) other
citizens were ever given a referendum on membership you may be surprised at the results.
The EU, believe it or not, is set up and run on the same style and basis as that of the old Soviet Union and given sufficient time it will
undoubtedly implode and break up in a similar fashion. UKIP are just trying to accelarate that process!
Thanks again for your time. - Well there you have it,and thank you John for your post,s lets hope we get more of them.We are geting round with our leaflits,some of you have already got them but
it does take time,also you will all get one in the post from our headoffice. Thank you, Vic MATCHAM - john
at present you are posting on the
front page, there can be delays on posts being shown.
it may be worth your while to email paul on dover7@msn.com
to become a member. - Many thanks to all the excellent contributions on the UKIP feature and particularly to new guys John Buckley and Duncan Barkes. The feature will be coming
down today to make way for the next item so if there are any last comments nows the time...the feature will move into the ALL RECENT FEATURES archive. - Re the
Great Crested Grebe on the members forum there has been one around for a week or so in the de bradelie wharf area it has been amusing to watch it diving for its supper (so to speak )think it likes it there as the fish are plentiful and
it has caught a few that I saw, now I know what bird it is thanks to the picture on the other page - Just had a email from UKIP headoffice Thanking the Dover Forum for the
front page about us. - There is a joke here somewhere however Im a lady and Gwyn does live in River .Maybe next time he will vote for me .
- i think that is the main strength of gwyn, he gets involved with a lot of non headline claiming events in the consituency.
we usually find out after things have
happened. - HOWARD
Good example was he attended a funeral of a gent who lived in clarendon place, didn't forget his roots.
He remembered him from his council
days,
family realy pleased and surprized to see Gwyn there - doesn't surprise me keith, i have heard many times of him turning up at nurseries, daycentres and comunity
activities surprising everybody.
let us face it, he would not get elected 3 times in a row without a strong personal vote. - Public Spending
Efficiency Savings.
Following the televised meeting of the Chancellor of the Exchequer and Shadow Chancellors,the census of opinion of our experts and all Political Parties is that Public spending cuts must be achieved by Efficiency
savings.
What can Dover District Council do to achieve Efficiency Savings??
At the moment they are trying to offload their services and responsibilities to Town and Parish Councils.Unfortuneatly this will only be
made possible by the Town and Parish Coubcils increasing their Precept ie.No overall saving.at all.
The only way for our District Councils to make Efficiency Savings is to merge the four councils into one
Council.
The economies of scale will produce Efficiency savings in the millions of pounds.--Q.E.D.
PS.No apologies for repeating the message because I not sure if anyone is listening!!. - REG
As I'v stated on here, and when iv spoken with you, not convinced doing away with councils will;
help democracy or get decisions made
locally.
- Keith sorry to disagree but Reg was the last'giant' in local politics and I trust and agree with his judgement on this subject.
- i have read your post with interest reg, please remember that listening is a two way thing.
- Howard.I`m listening just not hearing anything constructive coming back!
Keith,Hope you and yours are well.
Democracy will not be effected.What local decisions have you welcomed recently?The closing of Toilets? - Many thanks Paul.
Could I make a comment concerning Council staff? As spending cuts in Councils staff means laying off people working in the relative offices, to
make any substantial difference in the local budget many staff would have to go, one or two wouldn't be enough. Question one: would it not take considerably longer for members of the public to get their matters sorted out when in need
of a Council, for example applying for benefits, changing address or whatever? And does all the individual worry that would cause really pay off?
Question two: Is it fair that many staff members sign on, and start a life of misery?
Adding to this, apart from redundancy money, every benefit receiver usually gets about 500 pounds ever four weeks, and spends a lot less in shops, which means less income in the economy owing to less sales on the home-market, which in
turn generates less tax going into the Treasury, and can cause factories to lay off workers owing to lower demand, again creating more requests for benefits. So once the benefits are calculated, directly and indirectly, considering the
consequences of the domino effect, the State Treasury would have a high bill to pay for Council staff lay-offs. Reg, it's better to get the lost sectors of industry back which the e.u. regime in Brussels masterminded out of our Country
into Poland and Asia, so as not to import the products that our Country once produced. This would create work here and plenty of income, also into the Treasury. - Gwyn's a
good bloke and a good MP. - KEN
EVERYONE has a right to a view(even you lol)
Reg has got this one WRONGn
All I can say is Iv watched unitaries being
formed in South Wales and the same arguments that reg uses was stated there.
Sadly it wasn't to be and decisions are made miles away and the local representation went out the window.
At least at the moment we still have
cllrs in each ward that we can badger for answers.
In south wales this is no longer the case.
So as i say need more convincing - As you can see in the picture
currently showing at the top of the page...that bird is doomed. Look closely and you can see it has managed to get itself tightly wrapped in plastic. This means it cant fly and so is destined to starve, and of course is clearly also
prone to attack by anything... any animal and anybody. So a sad fate awaits it.
The statement above by the Seafrance chairman is worryingly accurate as this picture shows.
Can any of our star readers indentify which type of
gull it is? Im stumped, but there are lots of experts floating around onboard here at doverforum...so hopefully someone will come up with the detail. Shame to see the bird like that. Well done to Seafrance though who make a regular habit
along with the local residents of keeping Kindgsdown beach clean. Many will remember the recent stormy picture of the very beach taken by Paul Scotchie Wells. - YEP
ONCE AGAIN ITS IRRESPONSIBLE ADULTS!!!! - the mail ran a massive spread a while back on this sort of thing.
bags from tesco, sainsbury's and the like were ending up the
other side of the world, choking wildlife.
that picture at the top is very disturbing, if only everyone thought for a moment when discarding stuff. - Funny
I'v posted before on this, animal welfare is where i started getting into politics!!!!!! - I hate to be pedantic but the poor Gull pictured above looks like
its caught up in a fishing line or a thread from a fishing net.
However it never ceases to amaze me how folk can leave their litter on the beach in fact leave litter anywhere,especially as there are ample bins
provided. - Its really sad to see wildlife endangered by litter or fishing debris. I do wish the people would throw their litter away much more repsonsibly.
ON
the subject of wildlife I have read in the Mercury on the parish pages under the River section a rare Pacific Tufted Puffin has been spotted in the village. I cannot find evidence of such a breed in my wildlife books but have found on
the internet one was discovered near Oare, Nr Faversham in September 2009.
I just wondered if anyone can verify whether such a bird has been spotted in River and that it is not a April fools joke considering the date the paper
came out! Also if anyone is able to take some pics of it I would like to see them, I understand River was very busy with people yesterday so this maybe the cause. - It would be of great benefit to wildlife and the planet if ALL plastic bags were banned, but we've had this discussion before.
Yes Marek, I'm sure
you're right, that is fishing line wrapped around the bird and in this case I would say that the little fella was released after his photocall. Gull pie anyone? - Hi
Paul
Your gull is a Black-headed Gull Larus ridibundus. The bird is in non breeding plumage. They take on the characteristic black head (actually chocolate brown) during the spring and summer. Quite similar to the Mediterranean Gull
Larus melanocephalus a species that is expanding its range and becoming more common in the UK (Best place to see locally is Copt Point at Folkestone where quite large numbers can congregate. The Med. Gull is a bit larger and heavier and
in winter plumage can be separated from the Black-headed Gull by looking at the black spot on the head. Black-headed is quite defined and round whilst the Med Gull looks like someone has taken their thumb and smudged the spot towards the
back of the head. Looks a bit like Amy Winehouse with her mascara smudged. - I agree it's shocking that irresponsible people are killing our beautiful
wildlife. - Well done SeaFrance!
What a shame that they are not as keen as picking up passengers as they are litter.
It's Friday of the the Bank Holiday
weekend, Operation Stack up and running and SeaFrance on a 48hr strike!! - What a sad sight that pic is of the poor little bird, hopefully he was rescued and for now, he is happy
and free again.
Its great to see the local people and Seafrance doing their bit for the environment and also monitoring litter levels. It's appalling that our fellow man just continues to pollute this planet so
carelessly.
Martin, thanks for posting that information on Gulls, very interesting stuff indeed. - It is sad about the gull, but also all the
wildlife that gets caught up in nets, wire or plastic.
It's also sad that SeaFrance are on a 48 hour strike. I wonder why the unions want to break SeaFrance; people will get sick and tired of these S/F strikes and book with other
ferry companies.
Roger - Roger, I agree that it is very sad about the gull, seals and other marine life that get caught up in the plastic, old nets etc;
but also don't forget how they are affected by the polution in the sea due to oil and drainage from the shore
As for Sea france I feel very sorry for the Dover staff who work hard, have to face the brunt of public anger during
strikes, all because of the French maritime unions whose work practices are ruining the ferry line - Many thanks to Martin there for all the detail on the bird above and birds in
general. Its only in more recent times that the problems with plastic seems to be getting more and more highlighted. Mass balloon releases for example are beginning to be frowned upon...which frankly wasnt something that occurred to me
previously, but now I see the point.
Operation Stack was called off fairly swiftly as the backlog didnt materialise it appears. My straw poll on the nearby hotel busy busy factor suggests to me that there isnt as many people going
off this Easter. But...The habit of clobbering with strikes those travelling at peak holiday times is a great shame...the practice seems to be spreading across rail and airlines as we've
seen. - Thanks Trevor.
Don't they do a beach clean-up in Deal ?
All sorts of wild-life are adversely afftected by man's pollution it is true; I
understood that ferries that operate between England and France have more stringent regulations now.
Not good for us, nor the animals.
Roger - The ferries have had stringent regulations for decades, Roger. No solid material whatsoever is deposited overboard, it is all taken away in
port. Likewise, serious liquid contaminants such as oil sludge are taken away in road tankers. Any bilge water pumped overboard has to pass through a 15ppm oily water separator and can only be discharged way out to sea. This is
cleaner than the seawater in some parts of the world and ships engineers complain of trying to purify the ocean! - Thanks Ed.
Good to know that our stretch of the
water is better/cleaner than other areas of the various oceans.
Roger - Ed, Years ago it was my job to clean out the Sludge tanks on the P&O BOATS crew would
not do itI got some lads off the doll and we went round from ship to ship.I always put my Gas meter in first before going in and open both ends I would then dig out all the sludge best way I could put it all in 45gall drums put what ship
and the times and dates on the drums and take them off the ship, not the best of jobs and the mess. - Can someone tell me where charlie
and mrs elphnick would live if she had got the nomination in suffolk.could they have managed living locally with her up there and him downhere.no of course not they would have lived in belgravia like they do now,and charlie could pretend
he lives here when he only comes down at weekends and odd days - interesting point mr wobbly, i was not aware that mrs chas was an aspiring politician, nothing much new
there though.
tony and cherie tossed a coin to see who would earn the big money in law and who would be a pauper as an mp.
i think you will find that he does live locally though, probably stays in london when
working. - Thats right Howard, in Walmer. You should note that they have family in Dover Constituency as well so the links here are particularly strong.
- oh no he don.t,he lives in london,barry is not telling the truth,he may have a place here but he has a place in london.perhaps barry will tell us where charlies kids go to
school - Doesn't sound
like a wobbly voter to me, more like a labour stirrer, only trying to cause trouble.
Roger - I dont know the home situation re Charlie but I guess with most
people involved in high level politics he will certainly need a base in both London and in the relevent constituency.The morning I was over photographing the High Speed Train, Charlie came ambling through on his way to London complete
with hot coffee in hand just bought in the cafe...so looking to me like a commuter fully fledged.
I note in the editorial above... Gwyn's statement says that he considers himself the underdog this time round. So is Charlie doing
rather well in his local engagements or does Gwyn just refer to the Labour situation in the opinion polls..whatever anyway..its all quite fascinating. With polls fluctuating all over the place the experts agree that its "still all to
play for!" - Oh my Gaaawd Ive just seen a Seafrance ship..I'll have to check my pulse! The strike therefore is over. I dont think they created quite the Easter
mess they were especting to create though. - i thought that sea france were due to restart at 2000 yesterday.
i think that they have really shot themselves
in the foot for the last time now, the french government have been looking for the opportunity to withdraw funding from them. - Nice to see gwyn continueing to look
after the electorate
good on you gwyn
soon be elected as MP as the the year round MP not just the 4 weeks leading to the election - i think you are being a bit unfair
there keith, chas has been bashing away around the constituency for at least 2 years to my knowledge.
our victor, although only an official candidate for a short time has always been active in matters concerning
dover.
cannot say the same about the other candidates though. - You beat me to putting up that notice Paul - well done.
Hope people do vote and think about what they are voting for and who will be best for Dover and the
Country.
Roger - Not quite got the feel of your forum yet , have to be in a serious mood to contribute as your members are obviously local political figures
with far more local knowledge than me, my campaign is very much a case of starting from last place, but as I have a totally different approach to elections than everyone else, for obvious reasons of lack of a constituency party and
support, I am free to do things I could only dream about as a Lib Dem agent. I will not be a paper candidate and I intend to have fun meeting local people and listening to what they have to say. Essentially if I have nothing worthwhile
to contribute to a thread I will shut up and let the people who know what they are talking about speak. Plus I don't want to let out all my election campaign ideas in advance where is the fun in that. - Well I will start this one off Mr Walters,I have always said that Candidates should live in the Parliamentery Constituency they are standing for,it is not all about the
port,you are a paper Candidate,and you cannot have any campaign ideas about Dover only the port,what you are trying to do is just sit back and let the forum do your work for you.
And then you go on to say,I intend to have fun
meeting local people,well I do not think they will be with you on that one,if it is fun you are looking for turn your T.V. on. I know at some point we will meet up with each other again that will not be fun.
Vic MATCHAM UKIP
Standing in my own Constituency as a Dovorian.
And if you do not know your way to Deal or around it, then follow me. - mike
what
or who are the english democrats?
describe please the aims of your party and why the title.
is it because of a yearning for an english parliament free of the welsh, scots and northern irish or is to leave the european
parliament? - Where oh where is the Monster Raving Loony candidate? There would be at least one guaranteed
vote........ - Oh dear Vic hope the knee is'nt giving you jip you do seem in a bad mood today, maybe it was reading about the UKIP candidate who let loose with racist remarks and
got chucked out, calm down dear it's only an election LOL. The English Democrats were previously the English Nationalists, I had'nt heard much about them until last year then I joined up and found some old LIb Dem and SDP pals from
years ago. They recently joined with the Democratic Alliance which are the Christian Party, Jury Team and now Veritas fielding 256 candidates. There was a possible link up with UKIP but talks failed a few days ago , I was prepared to
stand down for a UKIP Alliance member if it had gone ahead, this is probably why Vic is sore. If a local member had been prepared to stand I would happily have been election agent, I prefer not to be a candidate if a local is available,
that is my view. I know from talking to the Lib Dems that some feel a local candidate would have been better for them too. As for Local Issues I believe the people are best served by their local councillors and county councillors, and
the MP should listen to them no matter what party they represent, but that's a bit radical for most people to take in. Our new website is VoteEnglish .org apparently it's just gone up and may have glitches, but will probably tell you a
lot about where we are coming from. Hope this helps Mike. - Mr Walters I am not in a bad mood as you put it.Just tell me why you are not standing in your own
Constituency.You must see it would help you put your points over and get more votes if the public know you.This is not about any UKIP candidate who got chuckedout of UKIP, and I know nothing about that and have no wish to. - It was a pleasure to meet first time voters Saskia and Briony and their parents on Thursday morning. Apologies for getting you out of bed so early girls and taking over
your bedroom, but I think you will agree it was worth it. It's not every day a party leader calls you on the phone for a chat. Looking forward to seeing you again on GMTV. - Simple Vic, Dean Lacey and Sean Varnham are standing here they are both young good looking and tall, and I help them out now and then, mainly with silly saying's like
"Parliamentary Party Poodles" which for some reason they jot down in their notebooks to refer to for use later. Dover and Deal has no party as such and I am in Deal pretty often so the party asked me to stand. That's it really.
- mike
don't forget to reply to my questions about 6 posts down.
it will give us a clearer picture of your
aims. - And it was a great pleasure to meet you Kate. We all had a great time especially the girls who even said it was worth getting up so early for, so there you
have it straight from the mouths of teenagers!!!
Then when David Cameron called they were absolutely ecstatic. It was a great opportunity for them, an experience I'm sure they will always treasure. He also took the time to talk to
myself and Barry, so a great experience all round.
Thank you to you Kate and the GMTV team for yesterday, we had lots of fun. Briony and Saskia are looking forward to visiting the GMTV studio and meeting up with you
again. - It was really great to see Barry & the girls on TV yesterday. I thought they really represented their age group very well and have obviously thought
about how different policies will affect their futures....
Can't wait for the next interview, it will be very interesting to see how their vote goes! Great to hear also that David Cameron took the time to speak with the girls
personally, I hope that he was able to offer the answers that will help them to decide.
We are very proud of you girls, keep up the good work ! - Afternoon everyone, well morning for me i've only just woken up after the early one yesterday :)
Hope everyone is well.
Just to say a massive thank you for the opportunity of appearing on GMTV yesterday. It was such a
pleasure to meet Kate and the gang they're all really lovely!
However the main comments we're recieving about the interview is: "Saskia, your room is so pink!"
All my love, x - Hello Saskia, nice to see your posting!
- Politicshome.com have published their first Election Projection in their Poll
Centre. They are suggesting that David Cameron will be 11 short of an overall majority but there is good news for Charlie Elphicke, their verdict on Dover - Conservative win 'likely'.... They provide an interactive Constituency Map
here ww.politicshome.com/uk/the_poll_centre.html on which you can click any Constituency to view their projected result. The polling data they use is a little out-of-date in this fast moving election with the latest YouGov poll showing
a better lead for the Conservatives.
- Just joined and many thanks to Keith and Paul.
For those of you who follow Gold, John Brigden will be out and about with
the Lib Dems in Dover High Street tomorrow and at a Public meeting in Eastry on Wednesday 14th and various others: see website for a list of all events as they come in. Obviousely I'm not pretending to be unbiased, I am working in
John's team and look forward to some interesting discussions with you all over the next few weeks. - Really nice to see that Kate Garraway
enjoyed her trip to Dover, and that she took the time to say so on the Forum.
So maybe we will hear more of GMTV here on the forum in the future.
Once again well done Girls. - Well my turn, Lord Pearson will be in Dover for the whole day on Thursday.This is the only visit he is doing in Kent before the General Election.The good thing about geting a
Lord to come to the Town is they are always there in the House of Lords ,what ever party is in power, so I see this as a big +for Dover, because he can and will get up and talk about how we all feel about the sell-off of our port after
the Election, so in some ways alot better for the town then getting MPs walking around because the MPs might not be there after the Election, but Lord Pearson will. - This is a lovely story and a valuable lesson too.
Saskia and Briony were obviously very composed and calm and gave intelligent replies.
It was certainly good of David Cameron to call them and brings him closer to
the people.
Being a Conservative Councillor I would say nice things I guess, but it seemed that David Cameron was genuinely interested in what they had to say.
Roger - Vic unless we do away with the Lords,most are a waste of time and have problems staying awake when they are sitting in the
house. - i think you shot yourself in the foot there vic.
stressing the fact he is unelected and unaccountable will not impress the
voters. - Thankyou for all the comments everyone!
I really enjoyed myself! Kate and everyone from GMTV were lovely, so im definitely looking forward to next time
even more!
I was very shocked when mum said David Cameron's on the phone! It was really good to talk to him :) and I thought it was very good of him to call us and talk to us personally!
Anyway, hope you all enjoyed the
show!
x - well done briony, surprised you had the strength for the interview with only 10 quid a week for
food. - Howard,I do not agree we need the upper house just to keep some kind of order with all partys.Have you also heard about the permit secretarys of State all six
of them they are there all the time which ever party gets in and they tell the ministers what to do,that is how we got in the EU the first place.They are Unelecled and unaccountable to anyone and hold more power then them all. And that
job is one that is handed down. - Howard in answer to your question , the aim is to get an English Parliament with devolved powers like the Scottish Parliament and more accountable to the people, and a
referendum on Europe which we never had with the Lisbon treaty, we consider ourselves a centre party like the Lib Dems but without the Federal Europe objective, a lot of our policies relate to unfair taxation of the English people and of
course our dismay at the probably breaking up of England into 4 seperate regional assemblies. Trade with Europe is considered essential control by Europe is not. So we have a mix of UKIP and Conservative ideals but are more left wing in
other respects compared to them. We have one freely elected Mayor of Doncaster who has done away with political correctness which we see as a means of population control, he also got rid of a lot of unecessay expense like the mayoral
car. pretty radical ideas and totally ignored by the media that's us ! - thanks for that mike, most interesting.
with regards to the media, the local press
sometimes quote from this forum, you may find it helpful in getting your message across by updating us here. - mike,haveing a referendum has been promised before but
has never materilised through sucssive goverments.so what makes your promisis differant. - im unsure who to vote for. I believe labour have failed on many things, lib dems i never
would vote for, the tories are my best bet but i welcome any views to change my mind. - melissa,i will have a quiet word with you later.red or gold are better value
than blue. - melissa does not want to buy cigarettes max.
- I just want to thank Gwyn for accompanying us to
Number 10 and Gordon Brown for inviting us. It was an amazing experience, one which i will always be grateful for! I really hope Gwyn retains his seat. - must have been
an incredible experience cheska!!
is your dad out in afghanistan now, or is he back home? - im not howard,just a word in her shell like
lughole. - Max in reply to your referendum question, it is in the manifesto and we have 256 candidates fighting in the democratic alliance with the Christian Party , Jury Team and
Veritas, so it is a case of the stronger we get the louder the call for a referendum that was denied us recently by Gordon Brown on the Lisbon Treaty, I think Vic will agree with me on that one.
Does anyone know anything about this
Christian Democrat allegedly standing? That I see on another forum? Can't find them on Wikipedia? - RE Mellissa's note , there really is'nt much difference between
the three main parties policies at the moment, and has been proved with this Port privatisation thing having an MP on the same side as the government of the day is no protection. I still think the Conservatives will privatise at the
first opportunity.
The big march in London for Public Sector workers show's that everyone is scared for their job 's now.
Best to make up your own mind. - Max
How can you support a Government that has brought the country to its knees on just about every level it is responsible for ?
Whether the NHS, Police, the Crinminal Justice System, Immigration, Society in
general, Taxes, Bank Regulations, the Benefits System for the lazy (note I didn't say needy); they are all worse now that 13 years ago.
The lying, the broken promises, the state of the Nation - all down to the Labour Government.
What on Earth can there be that would make people vote for them, other than they have always done so - their family have always done so - tradition, that's what keep people voting Labour.
The only thing I can think of that is
better for the recipients, is welfare payments.
Big Government, little people and keep those little people down; that's what you get with Labour.
Roger - UKIP first again,the big partys not geting their Manifestos out till next week we have had ours out now some 3weeks you can download it from UKIP WEBB site or get a printed one from our headoffice.Just to let you all know the
Leader of UKIP lord Pearson is coming to Dover this Thurday for the day and also on this day we will have a UKIP Street stall out in Dover.Thank you. - as i said im
welcome to any views and im a non smoker but if it was chocolate on the other hand ........... lol - roger
some factual inaccuracies there.
firstly, an
independent think tank has just published a report showing a vast improvement in the nhs since 1997.
secondly benefit payments hve not risen. - Cheska, good
to see your posting. What a great experience for you and your family, one I'm sure you will always treasure. - Roger. Labour was re-elected on a manifesto
of increasing spending on the public sector in 2001 & 2005. The electorate gave the Labour party big parliamentary majorities to go ahead with these spending indulgances. It is the electorate who must take responsibility for the mess
the Nations accounts are in. Unfortunately, I see little sign the electorate is willing to face up to the problems this spending has created. On a brighter note, my wife and I enjoyed 6 very happy days in Dover over Easter. Thank you
Dover - Depends on what part of the NHS you think has improved Howard
Hospital Aquired Infections, although they've now started to come down,
absolutely went through the roof - never heard of MRSA etc, before 1997.
Waiting lists have come down it is true, but mostly because the hospitals have targets to meet and in order to do so, the quick operations are done to boost
figures.
The benefit payments themselves may not have gone up Howard, but there's loads more people on them.
Hugh - thank you for that; yes I accept it was the electorate who put Labour in power and they may have chucked
loadsa money at it, but without any reorganising, it will just go down the drain, or on increasing senior managers' wages and not on front line staff and equipment.
Roger
PS: glad you enjoyed your time in Dover -
did you see all the historic sites and attractions here ? if not, a second visit will help.
- roger
it is not my opinion, the trust that published the report
stated that waiting times are well down, easier patient access to services, more dentists and GP's.
the shadow health secretary commented on the report and said that the government had not done enough to stop people smoking,
drinking too much and taking drugs!!
all the services needed are in the local doctors surgery, what more can be done? - Hospital acquired infections had their
genesis in Thatcher-developed , no-brainer, idiotic Capitalist notions of market forces that led to Domestics losing the ability to buy into their Teams and Wards and being treated as automatons, paid merely to clean rather than own
thier part of their environment and Matrons being phased out in favour of Managers who knew nothing about Care and who had no ablity to manage Teams of Carers. - bern
i
wanted to say that but did not have your word power. - My English Democrat colleagues have posted me an article with polling intentions from the East Kent Mercury. I
have to admit to being in a state of shock over it ! At least I now know that it is the Christian Alliance and not our allies the Christian Party who are fielding a candidate. - Spot on ...Bern
- I know everyone loves to blame Maggie Thatcher, but I (along with hundreds of
thousands of other people I'm sure) had never heard of hospital aquired infections or MRSA until around 2000.
If the practices were so awful Bern, why didn't Labour change them ?
I don't believe all this Thatcher bashing,
what I do believe is that MRSA etc. and target chasing were all problems caused by Labour.
Roger - Thank you for puting Lord Pearson on the front page,as you know he will be with us this week.
- Bern your comments are exactly spot on.
- Ah..you caught me there before I was finished the
editorial Vic, but its all complete now. Hope the Lord himself will give your campaign a boost on thursday. Good luck with that. - Thank you again Paul,not only is
Lord pearson coming to Dover but most of the UKIP Kent Candidates to and others from head office,+this is good for the town,because it will have a big impact and more than that it will show how important our leader and party see Dover
and the sell off of our great port and how wrong it would be,we are the only main party over the years that have said no to the sell of our great port, both the reds and blues at some time have agree to sell it off,and I still think that
is the way they are thinking behind the headlines,because they know it will cost them alot of votes to say go ahead with it.
Also this is the only visit in Kent of lord Pearson before the General Election, again this show,s how
important the party see the UKIP seat in Dover. - Good for you Vic hope you get that message across.
- Thank you for that Mr Walters we will up over the next 3weeks,not to late to join up with me and my good team.
- Hello Roger. Could you please specify who the "lazy" are who receive benefits, if you are referring to the millions of British citizens singning on in their own
Country or to the masses of assylo seekers who come and grab benefits? - mike
like that one about the christian alliance and the christian party.
sounds a lot
like the judean popular front and the popular front of judeah. - Hi all,
has anyone managed to ask Charlie Elphicke or any of his volunteers about his stance
on fox hunting adn whether he plans to vote to repeal the ban while he has been door knocking? only i missed him and his volunteers who were in Church Road last Monday and wanted to ask him myself.
jamie - jamie
i am fairly sure that he is with the mainstream blues with repealing the legislation on hunting with dogs.
chas looks in on here, he may like to give his own
version. - He is listed in the Independent as one who will vote to repeal the ban.
www DOT independent DOT co DOT uk/news/uk/politics/tally-ho-barbour-cavalry-
rides-to-tories-rescue-1929969 DOT html
(Sorry about the formatting) - paulb,i think you will find that picture is triple x
rated. - i was thinking much the same max, you can imagine kids running to their mum, crying their eyes out and promising to eat all their greens if he goes away.
dogs
howling at the moon, cats hiding in the shed etc.
probably a very nice bloke though. - Thanks for the offer Vic and I expect that Mercury Poll showing me on
40.6% of the vote is a glitch after all. So glad I am doing things differently this election, door knocking constant leafletting , good morning leaflets, committee rooms in every ward, all those cups of tea, all that worn out shoe
leather , elections can be hard work for the big constituency parties, gosh it's good to be your own agent and put your feet up not having any party official chasing you LOL ! - Howard Judean Popular front ? thought they died out in the 1st Jewish revolt of AD 66 to AD 69. I think that 1st century historian Josephus has a lot to answer for, I have
his book it seems that he was an early politician and very cunning with it! - Paul it is your turn next week I am coming even with all the stairs I will get to you
just have that cupper ready. I have a full printed Manifesto to give to you. - paulb,is there any chance of putting anything of labour and
lib/dem on your front page,as it stands it looks a bit biased towards the conservative/ukip cadidates.being an open forum it would only fair to all partys concernd in the 2010 eletion. - Perhaps Paul like me has seen very little literature if any from the Labour party .
- There is a reason for all the Tory leaflets I thunk it is Lord Pearson has pumped
£millions into majorinal seats,because he knows that is where the election will be won/lost.
My dog doesn't mind she tears up all Tory leaflets,in fact she tears up all leaflets - 2 Conservative & 1 Liberal Leaflet received through the door so far, I was given the Labour one whilst in the street last week but it threw me as the background colour was Tory blue.
- There is only a certain amount of money allowed to be spent on an election campaign this is to allow fairness to all .
Locally the Conservatives raise a lot of money which
helps with our campaigns .
Come on John a few Quiz nights and coffe mornings to help Gwyn .
You know you can do it .A strong membership helps - Hi John...I think
you mean Lord ASHCROFT there. Wouldnt do to confuse the Lords!!lol Lord Pearson is the leader of UKIP. Lord Ashcroft is the offshore donor who was the subject of much unwholesome media speculation as to his tax situation and is a huge
Tory donor.
Max yes am very happy to cover all main parties but within reason as we are limited as to what we can physically do. Have only just taken down a picture of Gwyn at No 10 with PM Gordon Browne and Sarah and the family
from Deal. Cheska from that family left a message here on the frontpage a day or so ago. We have had a plenty of Labour coverage to be fair. The LibDems are harder to accomodate as have had no info through from them either press releases
or leaflets through the door. - Why has the Tory leaflet got a picture of the Harry Enfield character Tory Boy on it? I have not had chance to read it yet but
cannot understand why they would think that image is a vote winner. - not had that one blake, had a few so far from the blues.
nothing from the others
yet. - The Liberal Democrats leaflet is WWII orientated with a Spitfire on the front, when I glanced at it for the first time I immediately thought it was from either
UKIP or maybe the English Democrat/Christian/Judean Front party?
Are they campaigning for the silver vote? Slight mistake methinks. - Thanks Paul I am on nights and
got my Lords mixed up. - Roger
With the state of the Goverment finances as they are, I doubt we can afford a reorgansiation of the NHS. Such reorganisations that take place
lead to NHS staff receiving redundancy payments, going on to being re-employed elsewhere within the NHS on continuity of employment, whilst not paying any of the redundancy payments back. Such reorganisations are a racket and bring the
NHS and the Goverment into disrepute, as well as demotivating those members of staff not on the lookout for another reorganisation payday.
On a brighter note, we often visit East Kent and Dover in particular, we never get to do
all we want. There is so much to do in that part of the country and we hope to visit again very soon. It would be good for Dover if the football club gains promotion again this year, we had a nice day watching them defeat
Eastleigh. - Mr Roberts Sir you have hit the nail on the head and all partys in Dover are in agreement with you on this one ,Promotion for the Dover Football
Club we all vote a yes to that. - hugh makes a good point, i would add that during the blue years, nurses found it very lucrative to accept
redundancy, sign on with an agency who would then fleece the nhs with skyhigh bills for temp work.
the nurses picked all the best jobs, most convenient hours and and walked home with a pay packet much larger for doing fewer
hours. - It will be interesting to see if messrs. Brown and Cameron make their way to Dover during the campaign to support their respective candidates!
- Of course I should have also mentioned Mr Clegg in the interests of impartiality. They're all welcome in Dover if it helps highlight the key local isssues.
- you can be assured of that kevin, our betters never missa a marginal seat.
- Hi PaulB, there is in fact
a public leaflet near Market Square, which I find great, because it's impartial and doesn't say which party people should vote, but only what would happen if Tories get in. It's got the picture of a very big axe! With evident
meaning... - All those Tory leaflets are being funded by Charlie's nice big Tax Lawyer salary! Possibly could have remortgaged the house in London as well to fund the
campaign! - Off topic,but I haven't seen this mentioned here or the other forum and I'm so damned angry about it
And yet again they spoil it all!
What should
be a pleasant place to take young children has been defaced with filthy words and graphic sexual drawings.
I feel sorry for everyone who worked so hard to improve things for of Dover and wish a thousand curses on the low life scum who
do this kind of thing. - Question for General Election Candidates.
With Public Spending high on the agenda in the General Election and the future
extensive Council Services cuts What is your opinion/commitment to the extensive economies of scale/saving of millions of pounds of an East Kent Unitary Council of Dover,Canterbury,Thanet and Shepway? - sorry penny, you have lost us, can you tell us where you are referring to?
- howard,graffeti in
the new playpark at counort park. - Connaught Park new play area.
Off topic,but I haven't seen this mentioned here or the other forum and I'm so damned angry about
it
And yet again they spoil it all!
What should be a pleasant place to take young children has been defaced with filthy words and graphic sexual drawings.
I feel sorry for everyone who worked so hard to improve things
for of Dover and wish a thousand curses on the low life scum who do this kind of thing. - That's a terrible shame, it doesn't take the low life's long
to find out that there is another blank canvas for them to deface. - penny,its mentioned on another forum called dover locals.i hope this
helps. - things like this tend to happen towards the end of the school holidays.
they do not seem to have parkies any more. - We have parkies in Kearsney Abbey and Russell Gardens .
- thanks for that susan.
are they real parkies or
just gardeners? - They do both .I thought Paul would have taken a pictute of the parks .The daffodills have been marvellous .
Everyone is commenting on how good
they are .
Lets have a picture of something that is decent in our District . - Sue, the church of Saint Mary in the Town is really so beautiful, and all the flowers
around! In a few days or more, Sue, that big tree on the lawn of the church will be blossoming, and that is sheer beauty! - Yes you are right there .A lovely display in the
centre of Dover .many many years ago when the much liked Vicar Alan Simper died I with others managed to get a tree planted in the gardens there .Little things which make a big difference . - I'm really glad that at least you appreciate a church I mention, Sue!
- To be invited to go along to Tuesdays
Presentation was interesting as it was something that will ultimately effect us all in the future.
It is not a subject that would be in the forefront of peoples minds but our energy in what ever form we choose has to be a priority to
us all for many reasons.
- I have to admit I thought of the BNP when I saw the Conservative Posters in the fields and along the roadside, I was so relieved when I
saw it was only the Conservatives. If anyone goes to Chatham Railway station and drives past Wickes there is actually an English Democrat Billboard poster it may be the only one in Kent because all English Democrat candidates pay for
their own campaigns. So theres one for Election Billboard Spotters. Don't expect a flash glossy leaflet from me, got no Spitfires on mine, bit jealous really LOL ! - Yes Jan and I believe in Nuclear Power too.
I know there are many people who are against Nuclear Power because of the potential dangers, but we do have a very good record in this Country.
There's the very
important aspect of jobs too, something every one needs and of course with jobs come the boost to any local economy.
Flooding is always an issue with the EA, in many instances not real dangers but potential and these potential
dangers can be built out.
Roger - Yes Nuclear Power always has a touch of controversy about it but as Roger says there below we seem to have an excellent safety
and relatively green record with these power stations. The problem is that they are going to be built anyway but without our region having one, well this simply means we will miss out on a vast amount of jobs and wealth creation. And yes
indeed...a vast amount of wealth creation with a figure of £50million being mentioned, this will be injected into the local economy.
There is always a balance to be struck between green issues and job creation but somehow at the
end of the day job creation should win through, unless the job creation causes significant damage to a wholly green area. The whole region here is terribly short of meaty jobs and decent wages...so they are desperately needed.
It
was encouraging the other night to see a wide range of weighty politicians reach out to try and secure a future for the iconic Dungeness Power Station. - Has anyone
on here ever changed their voting intention after reading a election leaflet? - i am totally in favour of a nuclear power plany on that site.
there has always been one
there so no great change, plus the bonuses of jobs to a blighted area. - Paul You have got my leaflets now,so that should read UK,IP 3+the full Manifesto even the
Blues did not gave you one of them,anyway I do hope you are feeling better and it was nice to talk to both of you.;Lord Pearson again was saying that what was on the Dover forum was Great. thank you.It will be Nigel Farage next time,but
it will be after the big day, but will hope to get him down before next years locals and we are working on them now. - Martin, I formed an opinion
after searching briefly on internet on the UKIP page about six weeks ago or little more. There's little any leaflet can do now! I believe the UKIP is one of the only parties that really grasps the
situation! - Alexander.Thank you for saying that.I will be doing a full post on our Manifesto but at this time I have a lot on but it will come on this Forum.
- Vic, you're most welcome. I'm sorry about that time over a month ago when I thought you were going to quit and go away. I hadn't understood at the
time that you meant you were preparing to go to London on the grounds that you feel the UKIP will be successful. That was why I asked you to stay, to keep up the campaign. I hope you do get the best result out of it.
Again, as I've
just written to Barry, we don't have to agree on everything, but the UKIP have the essential knowledge to make the essential steps to get our Country out of this mess! - Um I am seriously beginning to question the validity of opinion polls, I just checked the East Kent Mercury part of the Kent Messenger Group online poll. It now say's Conservative 11.9% Labour 13.4% Lib Dem 4.5% UKIP 3% BNP 6
% and for some strange and totally unkown reason as no one has seen my little leaflet yet, English Democrats on 61.2% ?????????????? Nobody has printed a profile in the press yet have they? Do you think it was my support for Lady Ga Ga
as future Prime Minister in the Joke zone of Dover Locals that caused this momentum? Are there any serious polls about? - Thanks for that all round Vic. Yes have all
your leaflets now so all changed there. Will be taking the page above down tomorrow but I see Terry has started a thread on this leaflet topic in the Forum. I had yet another leaflet from Charlie today too so its a Conservative
blitz....but I expect the Labour guys are revving up for a late surge. Vic if you have a picture of yourself with the good Lord ( ah, but can he walk on water!?) let me have it in due course..well done in
advance. - If you look into my UKIP blog on the members page you will see i am over the next two weeks downloading the full UKIP Manifesto,+ what I think about
them and also add anything that I thinks needs to be done. Thank you.I would just like to add we can always do with more funding big or small if you can help in this matter please email me,any funds we get in Dover will be for Dover
only.thank you. - great pictures paul, extended the scope of the forum to include local issues just outside of
dover, - Thanks Howard and all the guys who commented on the Dungeness feature and on the features generally, always welcome. Yes will try occasionally to bring wider
stories if its possible. The jobs issue is a big one around here, there are few if any meaty jobs, so am keen to think a massive influx of jobs and money could be possible with a new era Dungeness. But it will have to be fought
for.
Have taken the recent feature down now this morning, now in All Recent Features for archive purposes, and replaced it with the above building site!
Bit of a change from political goings-on, but just a brief
change. - You can't make an ommelette without breaking eggs, so I guess we had to have the disruption to get the new seafront.
What will/is the big crane
be lifting Paul, can you see ? I thought that the sea-front changes weren't involving big, heavy items, that crane looks like it could lift up the Premier Inn.
There were loads of people coming from the station, just walking
across the Folkestone Road without a care for traffic.
I did think that there was very little if any, advice or information about getting to the Port, certainly no extra buses.
Someone at the docks or station should have
done something for them - it's quite a way to walk with heavy suit-cases.
I'm sure, that as before when there was air-disruption, the travellers going through Dover, were not impressed with the lack of information and help.
Roger - Roger the port busses are not running to the station and are only picking up and dropping off at York Street roundabout,we normally close the station
after midnight and reopen at 04.15,I was on last night and we were so busy that we were running trains throughout the night,we were at least 3 times busier than normal.It makes the Eurostar and snow disrupion earlier in the year seem
like a child's tea party to what we are dealing with at the moment.2 of us did 3 hours overtime to help out and we probably won't get paid for it plus we had an additional turn in the ticket office.People were walking up and getting
lifts up in aPort minibus all night.completely mad. - Roger so far the crane hasnt lifted anything, it arrived yesterday in sections and then they assembled the thing on site..it
is quite a whopper. I also have a picture of it prior to assembly...never knew that was how they did it but I guess when you think logically there cant be any other way.
Thanks for that update John.
Yes we are back in the
hundreds heading towards the port scenario pulling their trolleys. One little note and its a pity... many walk all the way down the seafront unto that new breakwater walkway...but as there is no way through, they then have to come all
the way back. Better signing needed as the poor souls are already stressed enough. - Great picture PaulB, and I`m sure it`ll be worth it at the end. That crane is
where the hole appeared last year, and where the sea is bubbling up from below. - Will this work be done ahead of the regatta?
- Well do they know that crane is siting on all my welding I done only last year, Yes all the work will be done in time of the Regatta.
- Thats good then i didnt see the point in redesigning the sea front it was lovely already.
- Thank you Sid, you made me
happy there! - What exactly is the crane for and what work are they doing ?
- Hi Ross as of yet the crane
hasnt lifted anything. Yesterday they assembled the beast piece by piece and it looks to be a very new crane. See my earlier post. Nicely coloured reaching even higher than the photograph shows. It has been inactive today saturday, but
is no doubt waiting to kick into action on monday. It was a surprise to see it arrive because there is nothing visible there to see that needs lifting, or that is about to be lifted. As mentioned it is roughly in the same place as the
great hole that appeared there before, twice if I remember, you will remember too our picture of that great hole...still have it somewhere. So maybe thats the reason for its arrival, but all quiet with the crane today and so
far. - They are going to pull out the old piles I welded up last year and put down new ones alot of banging will be going on and they will have to work the tide in
and out.THIS IS the my kind of work done it for over 30years and I srill miss it.I think some one on the forum has some photos of we working there last time I was also in the hole. - what is making things worse for the poor people dragging their luggage down to the port, is that there are no foot passengers being taken today that have not
booked.
what will happen to all these travellers tonight? - probably kip in the travel centre or make camp along the beach and
promanade. - that is what i thought max, why is it that any visitor here seems to go away with a bad experience?
now wonder we are devoid of
tourists. - what with the churchill closing and regen along the prom and deriliction along townwall street and you wonder why they do.dosent make a pretty site does
it. - Some one should tell those contractors. "They are in the wrong damn place"
They should be using that big crane to take down Burlington house
and the rest of that pile
of rubble behind the sea front - Howard mcsweeney,
The reason visitors seem to go away with a bad experience of Dover is because Dover is a bad experience
simple!! - ok jimmy, what would you do to make dover a pleasant experience?
- Howard
Mcsweeney,
Please dont get all sniffy about my reply. I always find that any one who answers to a reply with a question makes it abundantly obvious that they have no reply to the opinion stated. Having said that I shall
reply.
Pull the whole place down and start again (Please refer to BBC pictures of Warsaw in Poland) completely destroyed during the war and completely rebuilt. so please do not patronise us by saying it is impossible. Any thing is
possible if you have the will. - Martin of Deal,
Has any one ever read an election poster?? - Jimmy Long,
Dover has its problems with Burlington House being perhaps the most obvious. It does though have many fine buildings, streets and public spaces that might be overlooked. I'm sure it wouldn't take too much to
turn Dover around, afterall it isn't a huge town/city. - Jimmy we have to keep a tad realistic with regard to Dover's redevelopment..we cant just flatten it
like Warsaw, and as it was wartime, Im sure the people of Warsaw may well not have wanted their original city flattened.
There are moves afoot to start a new initiative to replace that original DTIZ plan with Asda, which has now
gone for the proverbial Burton. I have had some information through from Cllr David Hannent about a new move...more to come on that soon.
Where you are right in that Dover badly needs development..it also costs vast amounts of
money to do anything. Dover itself does not have vast amounts of money. The building site currently along the seafront is being funded as I understand it by the HMGovernments 'seachange' project. What is admirable in this seafront
instance is how fast it all happened! - Mr Long.That crane is in the right place as you know last year we was very lucky not to have somone killed on that very
spot when it all caved in and left avery big hole,as in one of my postings about it we done a tem/repair on it till this year, it needs all new piles,you can not see it but you have my word on it,that if the work they are doing now on it
did not happen,in afew weeks time we would have back what we had last year this time it might be you walking there and that would be the end of you, that hole was in place,s 15 to 20ft deep.
The work I done with others was to weld up
the piles to stop the water geting but that would only last afew weeks.So please if you are going to post on something like that find out about the facts first.
Thank you. - Now that work has started on the other half of the prom and the fencing intrudes onto the beach there are no rubbish bins at all on the beach. We are coming up to
the busy summer period and without the bins the beach is bound to become even more clogged with rubbish than it normally is. Anyone out there hold any sway with DHB so some bins can be sited on the
beach? - Dear Paulb,
How frustrating to read your reply. Cynic as I am even I realise we cant just bull doze the town down. You have made me cringe with your suggestion that
there are moves afoot to try entice some sucker development company to invest in Dover.
After all this town has been through what with Asda and the DTIZ surely to god please spare us all that intrigue that went on for years and
produced sweet fanny adams.
Would it not be nice for once for some one to tell us that it is impossible to achieve any improvement in Dover because lets face it that is the reality of the situation,"IT AINT GONNA HAPPEN, NOT NOW NOT
EVER".
You go on to state that Dover does not have vast amounts of money, well I am pretty sure that if all the money that Dover has wasted on crack pot schemes over the years were added up it would to come to a sizableamoun t of
money, so how much more are we going to waste this time on some crazy scheme??
I dont want you to run away with the idea that I do not like Dover, truth is I dont. It is shabby ,dirty, has got nothing going for it apart from the A2
to Canterbury. No decent shops ,no decent night life,although it does excell in charity shops,who incidentally pay no business rates. Now there is careful planning for you, allowing a situation to develop where the town is taken over by
business that pay no rates how crazy is that??
You people have allowed Dover to become what it is so live with it and stop dreaming about utopia - jimmy
nobody in dover decides on business rates, government set them.
why do you live here if everything is so dire? - Thank you for putting
that back on Paul now Jimmy can see what it was like and could be again if the work is not done soon. - I have emailed DDC alerting them of the
problems described .
I can only try .
We needed a few guides not girl guides down in the town - The solution is to commandeer the airport buses from Gatwick not
currently being used and bring them down here to provide a shuttle service from station to ferry. This idea was proposed to the DfT last week but no action seems to have taken
place - The Port buses are only used when a Ferry loads or discharges and then only for a short time, surely they could be used to shuttle passengers in their down
time. - I have even heard from a colleague that the ferries would take foot passengers only if they were travelling with a bycicle, so some lucky Calais bike shop must be making a
killing at the mo ! - Jimmie Long, may-be you should realise that we Dovorians love Dover, even if we make a mess
sometimes! - jane
i believe that norfolk line made the ruling about bikes.
most of them will be dumped upon arrival here. - Mr Long
The truth of much of the decline has been the over-development of retail at Whitfield that has affected retail in the town centre. Many other towns have
suffered the same.
I am not a Dovorian but am proud of our town with its history and with a little more positive contribution the town can regain some of its pride. This involves greedy landlords/property owners bringing their
buildings up to a good standard and DDC have the powers to do so under Section 215.
Yes DTIZ has failed due to ASDA withdrawing but this now gives an oportunity to seek what is really wanted for Dover which (as DDC LDF states) is
quality developments. The glass in Dover is half full not half empty. - Travelled up to London today for a meeting on the high speed train. There was a distinct lack of
information for air passengers travelling to Dover to catch ferries. It's a shame that more could not have been done to provide information. Of course, the situation was not helped by all the work going on at the station and the fact
that the port bus is operating from York Street. The trouble is even the signs advising this were poor, and many of them had been vandalised. This, along with the lack of information, probably explains why most people end up walking to
the docks.
Good idea from "Information" to use the buses from Gatwick! With the airports closed, the government could also have redelpoyed all the public servants from the airports to help direct passengers at the seaports.
They clearly needed more resources at Portsmouth ferry port where there was a lost of complaints about the lack of immigration officers to process all the passengers. - OK, Howard, start collecting them bikes down at the port and we'll open our first bike shop in Dover lol!
- Pat Sherratt,
In as much as I find
myself in agreement with some of your letter
I have to ask you do you seriously believe for one moment Dovers ills are down to greedy landlords/and unscrupulous property owners?? I dont think so, you cant be suggesting that only Dover
has unscrupulous land lords,?? every town in the land has unfortunately there fair share of these people. Yes the council have the powers to enforce improvements but as always the easiest way out is for the council to continually turn
a blind eye to the problem and hope it will resolve its self
You state that the town can regain its pride with a little more positive contribution please can you define that statement as I have seen it in print umpteen times over the
years but it never takes any shape or form and most definately never materialises. Finally tell us just what does Dover really want ?? because I have no idea and obviously the town planners have no idea but I have a sneaking suspicion
that you are going to shock us and come up with the answer. - Mr Long
The reason I mention greedy landlords/owners is that the eyesore buildings are owned but
no maintenance etc done and therefore the Authority (DDC) through Section 215 is the solution. It has worked in other towns and cities.The visual impact can be enhanced with well maintained buildings.
Pride.. This is lacking in Dover
possibly due to the high number of immigrants and social benefit scroungers (I add here that some people require social support but some are taking it for a ride). Neither is controlled or restricted by the current Government and
reflects the desire by all and sundry to come to the "land of milk and honey".Certainly the current Government and Lib Dems will not improve this situation.
A "clean" town increases pride and whilst the council perform
adequate cleaning it is the discarded rubbish in streets and on private land that needs to have a zero tollerance....This is , I understand,also a problem in Whitfield as is anti-social behaviour.
The DTIZ site should be
landscaped until the revised plans of what is going to go on this site, I have raised this at various meetings and am pleased that my suggestion is being supported by various organisations...it now needs DDC to action it.
As far
as facilities there is a need for some improved youth facilities as well as tourist leisure facilities.
Again Dover is a wonderful town allowed to decline due to lack of involvement over the last 10 to 15 years from Central
Government where finance was available but seems to have not been requested. - Well said, Pat Sherratt! The "possibly" you wrote can also be translated as:
certainly! - Oh its my fave cllr Revel . I didnt see no walkabouts of the 3 musketeers and a friend upon the streets of St Rads considering theres an election coming up.
Sure start is a wonderful organisation and im sure they were chuffed having such celebs dropping in. Ps Cllr Mills, St Rads is up the hill from where you were that day do you remember us the public that voted you in. - Never mind Mel you can always speak to me on the bus .In fact I have quite a few conversations with people who get on the bus at St Rads
You only find out peoples concerns
by mixing and listening .. - collette
I am afraid that there is a bike shop in Dover already so you missed out on that one!
London rd called DUBCYCLE
havent tried them
but I am sure they are fine
d - Glenys Kinnock looks very well indeed, lovely to see her down in Dover and the Triangles Community Centre does a great job for the local
community. Sure Start Centres need every little bit of help they can get as they are a great help to little ones and their parents. - Mr
Sherratt
There are in Dover, a great number of properties in need of work, however, this may be seen as a consequence of the relative poverty that exists in Dover, rather than its cause. Dover is largely missing the 18-45 year old
demographic of high income/ time poor people, that might lead to a greater overall level of prosperity. These demographic issues are not unique to Dover and will become increasingly evident as the population of the UK ages. We should all
be wary about finding scapegoats such as immigrants or greedy landlords for the problems we are best united in overcoming. - thanks for that hugh, i totally
agree with that demographic, any major business will find this out before investing.
pat mentioned in his post that our district council can implement section 215, a power that has been used in many places to great
effect.
this became a debating point on here some time ago, but just died a death. - Many thanks Keith and Howard
Yes the demographics you mention is
vital. Dover does not have the disposable income within the community hence why tourism is of paramount importance to the town.
The 18-45 age profile is required and within the LDF of DDC this is highlighted. However the Business Park
that is intended to attract business development now has a high level of "retail" activity. This has therefore failed to attract the desired age profile with new skilled jobs as well as affecting retail within the town centre.
This
evening our local TV "Manifesto" showed Immigration and benefits as of major concern.
Immigration has to be controlled, whilst there are many hard working immigrants there are many who do not seek work as they are supported by the
welfare state which this country can ill afford. Education/health facilities are stretched including interpretors ( I am advised a interpretor to a mid-wife costs our health budget £30 per hour).
As far as Landlords/Property
owners...All we are seeking is for the poorly maintained buildings to be improved.This is often only a lick of paint and clearance of rubbish and with the importance of tourism will give a cleaner image to the town.This forum has already
shown how the London Road Forum cleared an area and much credit must go to this group, however, without zero tollerance on rubbish offenders the grot will sadly return. - before anyone jumps in on pat about the immigration issue, i must add that at certain schools around dover there are plenty of schools that have children that do not speak english.
a lot of investment is made in helping
them.
this is made more difficult by two factors.
1) the children are taken to school if and when the parents fancy.
2) the children are all put together, so it ends up that they speak only their parents
language.
i am speaking from experience here that children pick up a new language in no time, my grand daughter spoke fluent french and english at the age of just under 3.
when we had problems with the incomers here
misbehaving, i found that being able to communicate with the youngsters smoothed things over considerably. - Thanks Sue i will look forward to it x
- Me and my big mouth! yesterday the sight of red ribbons emerged up my steps and low and behold it was mr prosser and his army, lets say we exchanged a few words and i
enlightened him on my thoughts to which i get the feeling he didnt like, last words he spoke were at least i can count on Marks vote. lol - I thought I would chime in
on immigration and schools and note that in Italy, where mass immigration is as massive as in Britain, teachers in large towns and in cities have had to note how they cannot teach the Italian children in a proper fashion, as so many
children in the classroom can only spead a few words of Italian, and so either these latter are left out and understand nothing, or the teacher has to stop and explain five and twenty times to these, with hands and feet and
gesticulations to help get the point over, and so the actual children who were supposed to be in the classroom (the Italian ones) just don't learn as they should, being constantly distracted and held up.
It is as I have been stating
on this Forum, the whole issue of mass immigration is e.u. imposed, as Italy is also a victim member of this institution.
Well anyway, the problem is not just British, but also European.
Also, to add salt to wounds, in Italy, the
masses of worker on building sites are Rumanian and Albanian, whereas the masses of immigrants on benefits are Asian, African and South American.
Italians however don't get benefits unless they have worked at leas two years. This law
does not apply to asylo-seekers, who, as in Britain, get treated with benefits galore! - I forgot to add that the Italian population is "the oldest" in the world, meaning
that with the highest below-zero birth-rate. However, unfortunately, this ratio does not count only Italians, but all residents in Italy, meaning that millions of immigrants are counted as Italians in these statistics, even if they have
only come over in the past few weeks. The actual Italians, if I am not mistaken, are rapidly becoming a minority. Also, the e.u. bright-sparks in Brussels never mention that Italian children are not entitled to child benefit unless at
least one parent works! May-be you can understand better now why the Italians are being supplanted! - I would not pay too much attention to Electoral Calculus simply
because these predictive models have not been tested in the present polling climate, both UNS and the other formulaic ones are no use at all. We are in new and untested territory. - Howard & Alexander,
The expectations in Italy and Dover of foreign speaking students seems very low if they are being dumped in educational ghettos which you imply.
Here in Leicestershire, which has a long history of large scale immigration the picture is far more positive. Students who arrive with no English, are expected within 18 months, to be in main stream classes, some obviously need more help
than this and get it. The modern world means ever increasiing levels of mobility as people seek opportunities. Leicester is a thriving city and alot of that is because of the people who have come from all over the world to make something
of themselves.
What I do though find particularly annoying, is watching these relocation television series, where UK citizens emigrate to a foreign speaking country, unable to speak the language or only one of them can speak
fluently. Worse still, we see some hapless child aged around 13yrs being dumped at school and just expected to get on with it. The parents will proudly say how delighted they are that there years of dreaming about moving abroad have come
true. Yet, it didn't occur to them to take themselves and children on some language courses whilst still in the UK. - I tend to agree with that poll. I
think Gwyn will hold on to Dover and Deal with a heavily reduced majority. The Clegg 'bounce' will also play into Gwyn's hands. And personally I think Gwyn is a good MP for our towns and villages and a thoroughly nice and genuine
chap. Good luck to him. - God bless you, Jimmy Long of Whitfield. Good stuff! Go for it, mate!
- Alexander
is totally correct, mass immigration is imposed by the European Union. The EU activily promotes immigration, as well as multiculturalism and diversity, purely in order to "dilute" the indigenous population and which, in time, makes
it easier to lose our sense of national identity. Have you noticed that we are now made to feel somewhat "guilty" about our own countrys unique history and culture. Have we ever actually been asked if we wanted to live in a
multicultural society, of course not!
As far as the EU is concerned the quicker we all lose pride in our own country the sooner we can adapt and accept the fact that we are now simply becoming a mere "region" of the European
Superstate.
This situation will only get worse as if and when Turkey joins the EU, with a population of approx. 75million, it`s anybody`s guess as to how many more migrants will will be forced to accommodate.
Does anybody
really think that this is a good idea? - Andy, please enlighten us. What has Gwyn done for this constituency since becoming our MP? Little more, if
anything, than his predecessor I would say. At £68k per annum I expect action!
After 20 years of stagnation, dilapidation, false promises and changing of mind, and being ignored (busiest port in Europe and yet no dualling of the
A2) it's time for us to have an MP who actually does something for the town. - Well said Sid. GP has been an abject failure and lacks real
influence in his own Government. - I think it's fair to say that governments of all colours have in many respects failed Dover, and indeed the wider East Kent region,
over many years. The underlying structural problems with the local economy have never been tackled. At a national level, we're seen as being part of the "prosperous south east" so have never been given the same sort of support that
other areas have received. - Mr Buckley
With the exception of The Iron Lady, the political elite of the UK have thought immigration a positive for this country
for 60 years, without any arm twisting from Europe. Tony Blair was the most pro European MP outside the Liberal Party and yet people voted for him 3 times in their droves. If we want our society to head in a different direction, then we
must take it there, rather than blaming those pesky Europeans. I however, see no appetite from the general public for this to happen. One only has to see the public swooning for the vacuous Glegg, after one 90 minute TV debate, to see
the general public wants business as usual.
Mr Charles,
You've hit the nail on the head. - We have been going around the streets now for some
weeks and not one person has come up to me and said"The UK must stay in the EU,not one.
All I have heard is when are we going to get out of it. - Hugh, I think I can see what you`re saying, but since 1972 the people of this country have been blatently lied to by successive Governments as far as the European Union is concerned.
Tony Blair of course was a strong
advocate for pulling out of the EU until he actually found himself in No. 10. and then he suddenly changed his mind. Funny that.
Nobody is saying that all immigration is bad for this country, simply that we should have the option
to determine who we want and when we want them rather than being told by what amounts to a "foreign power" as to who we should allow in. There has to be some control surely?
You would, however, see the "appetite" for change
if our own people were actually allowed a referendum and a say in the matter. But that will never be allowed will it! - Andy Stevens from Deal,
Dear
Andy,
You have placed me in an impossible position. Ever since I joined the Dover forum I have tried my damnest to become the most unpopular "poster" who ever crossed a keyboard in the town.
Now thanks to you agreeing with me on
something, all my efforts are in ruins. on top of that you havent said what it is you agree with?? (You will have to excuse me a moment as I have to get some tissue to mop up the flow of tears) But am I down hearted?? you bet your sweet
ass I am. But am I a quitter?? most certainly not I shall be back, watch this space!! - Pat sherratt,
The glass in Dover is neither half full or half empty it is
completely empty. - I was equally surprised to see only a small group about, and only found out about it through this forum.
- Sorry, I`m referring to William Hague below on his Dover visit.
- PaulB - I was surprised not to see someone from DF there.
I was told the day before by email. As I know from the 2005 election, when I was chairman, visits by big names are surrounded by security issues. I therefore only mentioned it on DF when someone else had heard and posted it on
the forum a couple of hours before the visit.
You should have been informed at the same time as the press were told by Constituency HQ but someone clearly messed up. If they expected me to tell you or to post it here ahead of
the visit then they should have asked me to do so explicitly.
I will raise the point with Charlie and the team. - Colin - it was arranged at a very short notice
as these things are and a lot of people cannot get away from work. Sadly there were not a lot of shoppers around either being a Wednesday afternoon, one of the quietest shopping days of the week. Given the time of day and the short
notice I was actually pleased at the crowd. What was important was that William did get to speak to people, not all of whom Tory supporters, and of course to the press though sadly PaulB was somehow missed out. - Paul, I think you are being a little unfair to Charlie's campaign. Prominent politicians don't announce their movements in advance for security reasons and even Charlie
didn't know he was coming until the previous evening. And the election is 2 weeks away yet we have seen no campaign leaflets from anyone bar the Tories and our Vic. - Totally agree with you PaulB, a big 'faux pas' there, it has nothing to do with 'Security Issues' as the local newspapers were contacted to cover the event, someone has slipped up 'Bigtime'. We are an Online Internet
Magazine with 24/7 feedback, very odd that we were not contacted as it would have only helped Charlie's Election Campaign, strange. - Mr. Hugh Roberts. This Forum certainly
is open to views concerning Europe. In fact here in Dover we are friendly towards Europe, as in Kent in general, and always have been, ever since our national British history began. Please do not think that because you personally think
mass immigration is great, that everyone must agree, and that if we do not, we are against Europe. Concerning Italy, I would like to point out a reality. It might take up some space, I'll be a lot shorter than I would like to.
The
president of the Italian republic is one of the artefacts of the e.u. superstate scheme, and considers himself "most ancient founding father of Europe". What drivel! All Italian public offices are tatood with the e.u. 12 star flag by
law! The Italian government is centre-right in coalition with the Lega Nord, which is a generally North Italian party that is strongly opposed to mass immigration, has probably the majority of the North Italian electorate behind it and
is increasing in popularity daily. The other party in the coalition is Forza Italia, very contrary to the last Italian government and its policies, of which, however, the italian president of the republic is a relic. So in Rome, whatever
the government would decide to change, is systematicly adversed by this relic, who has these powers, and who does not hesitate to overflow from his prerogative in order to condemn democracy in other countries, such as in Ireland, when
the Irish two years ago voted no! to the e.u. charter. I don't believe you speak for all Leiceshire, but if you want to know a little more about how many Italians in Italy are sacrificed to asylo-seeking e.u. imposed policies of
discrimination against Italians and total sponsoring of asylo-seekers, who get benefits and immediate work given to them through State-sponsorship while many Italians are left only to dream of this, then please inform yourself! I speak
fluent Italian, and know what I am talking about here. Also, the suicide rate of young Italians has increased more and more, because in Italy, some benefits that British and western European States have for their own citizens do not
exist, but they DO exist for asylo seekers, who are rapidly taking over there. Italians are being home-evicted while the asylo-seekers are waiting on the streets with their suit-cases impatient to move in! - Regarding Mr Hague and Mr Elphicke "Ichabod" It should be noted that the Google spell check does not recognise Elphicke and suggests chickenpox instead.
- Hugh Roberts, I suggest you urgently contact the Kent County authorities concerning Kent education, and the Italian State authorities concerning Italy, if you seriously believe
that the children at school in Kent are in ghettos, and that children who can't speak English are being dumped in ghettos when sent to school with Kentish children (or Italian, in the case of Italy).
I believe they will ask you if
you are being serious. I have already expressed on Dover Forum my personal oppinion that, as far as I am concerned, certain people march through grab and get given, and then complain too! It seems they have an advocate. I believe
actually that more people on this forum should reply to your statement of Kentish schools being ghettos. It's all getting to much with this mass immigration. We have to be deprived, British children have to be held up in the classroom,
we have to sign on, and on top of this be told that the education supplied to thousands of children who can't speak English is because our schools are ghettos. I'm surprised that more people do not respond to that. I read in a local
Dover news paper a few weeks ago that 10 percent of children in Dover's schools speak little or no English, and that this causes a problem to the other children is a forgone conclusion.
Also, I dispute your claim that there is a
wide-spread emmigration of British families with children from Britain to other countries where English is not spoken! - Alexander,
I thought your contribution
regarding Italy to be most enlightening. My impression of Kent schools was very high and was rather shocked by howard mcsweeny's comments just prior to your own excellent contribution on this difficult but important subject. - hugh
i can only speak of dover, not all of kent.
i have a member of the family working in one of our schools, there are children that do not speak
english, yet they are all lumped together, making it more difficult to learn our tongue.
multi lingual people are brought in, but many times the children are let down by their parents who do not take them to school every
day. - That sounds rather depressing Howard. With a world population of 6billion and labour mobility ever increasing, our educational establishments must be up for
the challenge. Kent schools are the envy of many parts of the country and if people highlight those genuine problems that exist, we can, as a society, make a better world for us and generations to come. - Howard, it was the same in Ilford, Essex back in the 70's. My children, who went to Cleveland School, were made to play games on Fridays while the immigrant children were being
taught English! Scandalous. We moved to get our kids a 5 day week of education. Both subsequently went Uni and got good degrees which I am sure would not have been the case on a 4 day week.
Alexander, thousands of Brits are
migrating to Spain,where English isn't freely and/or willingly spoken. - hugh
the county city where you live has been the natural home for
many immigrants from the sub continent and certain esat african countries.
they have established a culture there where sikhs, hindus and all the indigenous english enjoy the diwali celebrations.
thus the incomers attracted
to go there will be introduced to the english culture by second generation asians.
very different in dover.
- the new looks nice on paper,but the big
question is how long do we have to wait fot it to happen,15,20 years or not at all.personly i think its just lip service to keep joe public happy and of ddc,s back. - Howard,
Things have changed in Leicester in the last few years, with schools having populations with at times dozens of languages spoken rather than just a handful of Indian languages. Certainly high parental
expectations have played a part in the success of schools historically here, with middle class Indian parents expecting their children to work hard at school. Schools should have high expectations in terms of work and behaviour of
children, and the aim should be to get pupils to a level of English so that they are in mainstream classes ASAP. I believe Kent schools must have a very good reputation for a reason and that they will adapt to these challenges. - here here MR Hannett
- Do you have to book ??
- Sue yes have just had further details through and will add them to the blue bit at the top of the page shortly. Bear with me...Im ball juggling at the moment!
- Hear hear David Hannett. Absolutely brilliant ideas. This sort of scheme for the St James' area is exactly what Dover sorely needs, wants and deserves.
- Dear
Hugh Roberts, thanks for your appretiation of my account; I would I like you to know though that in the seventies of the last century, when I was a lad, many ex-Empire people moved to Britain for reasons of affection to the British. I
believe that the Nation generally accepted this and did great efforts to integrate these newcomers, and those born to them are British citizens speaking with English dialects. I do not consider them as ethnic minoorities, but as British
citizens who have the same sentiments as British citizens in general. But I do not agree with the e.u. mass immigration policies, and as in the seventies the British Gov. put an end to mass immigration after speacial links with western
Europe had been established, I cannot understand why mass immigration was re-introduced to Britain. I am of the UKIP idea to send back at least a million people produce of e.u. mass immigartion policies, even though I would give them a
little time, say a few weeks or months, to practise a little farm work and/or factory work, at our expense, and would have each of them given at least a thousand pounds so that they can re-integrate in their own Country. My views on this
are known on Dover Forum, so I thought I would let you know that you and I are speaking two different languages! Still, have you considered that Canada might be able to give British Columbia a level of controlled independence as an
immigration state, for millions of people to emigrate to? After all, it was the British who discovered most of Canada and gave the whole place independence, and yet the Canadians of British and French origin do not actually originate
from all these fantastic areas of North America. I wonder why Britain gave all these areas to one government and then departed at the start of the 20th century. Now we are giving our limited Garden of England over to mass immigration,
and I really wanted to plant a few orchards here, you know! I am from Kent, my grand parents and their grand parants are from Dover. - Mr Hannent, I read your article at
the top of the page, and am glad that my recent survey on empty cash tills in Dover super-markets, which I threaded on the Forum recently, has been accepted. In fact, we don't need a supermarket at DTIZ!
However, I am wondering if
the DTIZ has that much space for all the projects you suggest, although, mind, they are generally good ideas. I personally would suggest a tunnel beneath Townwall and Snargate Streets to keep the port traffic down under, which would
certainly regenerate the area, including the closed shops and houses in Snargate Street. Obviously, local visitors could still transit above the tunnel on the road surface. I proposed port-tolls to finance many projects in Dover,
including Western Docks Port expansion, but, alas, my view here is hotly contended! I must accept the democratic will, and can't complain!
But, Mr. Hannent, it is not fair that the overwhelmingly expressed democratic will of
Dover's people to say no to Port privatisation has NOT been accepted by the Tory party, with the exception of Mr. Charlie Elfiske, and this is NOT democratic. They are bad loosers! Still, I might add that to bring down Burlington House
would cost probably more than to build up DTIZ once the building has gone! Texans would have to carry out the implosion, and please, could you ask that the Britannia is not damaged. I would like to see it re-open as a dining house.
Britannia's Dining House! - I echo that Andy, brilliant ideas there DavidH, all we need now is our very own Mary Poppins with her magic carpet bag although you never
know......... - I saw our Red Saint George Cross on the White Background flying High today over Townhall, and said: it must be Saint George's Day! And:
we're in England! - no alex were in pas de calias to be correct.
- That's great
Max, but I was in England! Here now, too! I saw the English Flag flying high over our Town Hall! - alex,good for you,thats the spirit keep your chin up.dover is in the pas
de calias region so dont forget to keep a stiff upper lip and think of england. - David
I agree that Dover needs quality development and your DTIZ alternative delivers
this aspiration and I share many of your views.
Obviously the entire scheme would be subject to overall detailed planning requirements and as such I would suggest that we not only look at the DTIZ site but identify the
"redevolpment" from Moats Bulwark in the east to York Street in the west.
The success of the type of development proposed is on the town attracting visitors with a good disposable income....Tourism would generate much of this if the
high footfall at the Castle and White Cliffs actually visited the town. Indeed without this segment of footfall it may be difficult to secure the private capital required for such a scheme.
As
Chair of the Friends of Dover Castle we have sought from English Heritage the possibility of Moats Bulwark being a lift access to the castle (possibly a glass type)....this has the advantage of opertating in all weather conditions as
well as possibly being a cheaper option than a cable car. The site is near to the Sports Centre which DDC has aspirations to move to Whitfield.
In the west the area of the former Crypt Restaurant is perhaps one of the worst eyesores
of Dover and is not part of the current DTIZ plans.
I have long advocated (to KCC and Highways Agency) a tunnel in Townwall Street... a "cut and fill" or alternativly a cheaper option of a "raised piazza" (in effect a tunnel)
constructed accross the A20 (Townwall Street) would greatly enhance the area and remove the blight of traffic.
As you are aware I raised at the last DTC Business Forum Group the prospect of "quality landscaping" the DTIZ site as
whatever is eventually decided could take years to completion and the area needs to be aesthetically pleasing for local Dover people as well as visitors. I am delighted that having raised this at a Dover Society Executive Meeting that
the Dover Society also supports this.
I shall unfortunately not be able to make the 27th as it is one of my "National Trust" days and I hope this forum posting the above may be raised at your seminaar. - Thank you Pat.
All your comments taken on board. Indeed at the Dover Society meeting in 2004 I suggested the alternative options of developing or landscaping but the
essence is to welcome visitors not force them away with unwelcome parking regulations and fines for parking.
I agree entirely with your thoughts on moats and in the end what we are saying is let all ideas be discussed in public
and distil from them a comprehensive scheme.
The Bench street/Crypt site has been already designed and is waiting action on the land bridge - has been for
years.
D - Having a lift alongside Moats Bulwark would certainly be a big help Pat; I had asked EH about refurbishing the steps from the ground to the Castle
(Guildford Steps ?) sometime ago, but that met with no response, now that there is a different attitude at EH (hopefully there is ), this could be incorporated into the development, or perhaps another SeaChange initiative.
If the
area was extended just beyond Moats Bulwark to around the entrance to East Cliff (the old SeaPlane shed ?, I believe the agents for it are Maltby's), that would clear up and enhance that area too.
The area you mentioned, the
corners of Bench Street and TownWall Street, are the subject of a planning application, so this area will be/could be, developed sooner than the DTIZ.
Roger - Mr. Sherratt, I am glad to read that I am not the only one trying to promote a tunnel under Townwall Street for the port traffic. Without one, I couldn't see Dovorians or visitors enjoying any DTIZ project. It would also be
nice for the many residents of the Gateway flats. Also, I reckon it should extend along Snargate Street too, to regenerate that area. - Max, I know Dover is on the
English Sea, and Calais on the Pas de Calais, and the past few days I have found out some very interesting historical information about a link between Calais and Dover, or more generally between France and Kent.
I've been processing
this information on my recently installed computer which is now up and running. I like researching, and have had some discussionss on the Forum about it, even if controversial. - looks like some wise person in central office thought up this hair brained scheme.
councils up and down the country of all colours have commented negatively about this new
idea. - It's good to
see some new ideas for the DTIZ site. I'm sad I can't make this seminar. Although I realise the proposal to connect the town to the seafront has been suggested, I always thought there was a better route using the DTIZ site.
- This has been an interesting story both nationally and locally. Paul Carter does indeed carry a lot of clout and his concerns that monies would be
lost from our regular school network are very real. Lets hope that Mr Carter continues to have his say regardless ....... - "This has caused some
embarassment for the Tory campaign and Michael Gove, Shadow Children's Secretary, was on Radio4 this morning (monday) saying in effect that Paul Carter is re-examining what he said." Should that read " he has been told to reconsider
what he said ? - so much for speaking his mind!!
that will end any political career prospects for him, the blues are very quick with the long
knives, - What Paul Carter said was very popular with a whole range of people..people who have real concerns about this big society schools idea. Apart from the
obvious political shenanigans that compelled him to re-assemble what he originally said, his original notion that these instant schools, set up by disillusioned parents, could and would clearly take money out of the system. The original
schools in any area affected, would lose considerable funding, as the same pot of money would be stretched ever thinner, and on top of that we have the prospect of the best pupils leaving. So there are real concerns
there. - Kent Education.
With a Unitary Council East Kent will be responsible for our Education.Education does not have to be a Political Football on May
6th - Michael Walters, I received your leaflet yesterday. I think it would be a very good strategy for you and your supporters in this area to vote for Vic, so as
to prevent the vote for the overall Cause being broken up and made vain! You could still express your views during the campaign and after, but by going for a loan campaign, you would be splitting up votes!
- looked like a very good turnout at the presentation, great set of pics there.
on another theme nobody has picked up on blue barry saying
that the imf bailed us out in the eighties.
surely it was another decade, i seem to remember that great humourist denis healey was chancellor at the time. - Always good to hear alternative ideas especially on an area such as St James, but it is essential to have backing and secure funding in place on such a big project.
The lunch time seminar was very interesting so hopefully a
meeting can be setup between the interested parties such as the Chamber of Commerces and the Dover Society and the Hierarchy of DDC. - Yes this is a very exciting scheme
and hopefully all roads will be explored with regard to funding. I think it was Derek Leach of the Dover Society who brought up the point about the considerable funding needed for the surrounding infrastructure..ie roads etc. DavidH
wants access directly into this new scheme from the main roads, so that Dover can benefit, as the town always suffers from people whizzing past without lingering for any reason. If we give them a reason and easy access to the town they
might stay and linger to the greater properity of all.
Although one little thing to worry about re this scheme which occurred to me later..the scheme is based on 'Brighton Lanes thinking' and I think we all love the Brighton
Lanes, but whereas Brighton is a wealthy town with no abandoned shops..what's to say that the shops would be actually taken up here in Dover. One needs to look no further than the other immediate coastal towns..horror of horror Margate
for example, to see the lack of shop takeup. This could be a concern.
Dont forget the original feature with drawings is in ALL RECENT FEATURES ( copy 88). - As I'm sure some of you know, I was always against the ASDA part of DTIZ. I fully realise that an "anchor" was needed and as much as I like the store it was in the wrong place. Our weekly shop is at the Canterbury branch,
sometimes it can take 20 minutes to go the short distance along the Sturry Road from the Sainsbury roundabout to ASDA. Putting such a store on Townwall Street is, to my mind, insane.
Some years ago I saw a "backflash" in a car,
it said "Town Planners Do It With Their Eyes Closed", how true.
I like David's scheme but like everyone else I wonder how it can be financed.
I'm also very much in favour of Yam's idea about a public meeting with
DDC's CE and Leader I'm sure that the LRCF would broker such an event. - Much as I like the Brighton Lanes concept and Im also a great lover of
Tenderten where there are lots of individual shops I wonder if it will work in Dover .
We have many empty shops but no one is snapping them up .
The kind of shops I love are not welecome by the locals in general .A member of my own
family said we will get more pound shops .
The quality shops donot stay .Why on earth have we yet another cafe in Market Square .We have more places to eat than places to shop.The Money shop says it all .
We have to have the
jobs so we have the spending power ,.
That is what Cllr Watkins is working on .
He does have a vision but sadly only a few are in the inner circle .I think if he were to share information more people would understand
.
The idea of getting at least one building on site would ellay some doubts . - Hi Sue
Certainly the current socio/economic profile in Dover would suggest the type
of shops etc in Davids proposal are not required.
However what Dover is missing out on is the potential disposable income from tourism..this mainly because the high footfall at Dover Castle and White Cliffs fail in the majority to
visit the town.
My post on this page of 24th April suggests a lift and increased parking so that people have to park in Dover to go to the castle rather than the current arrangement of in the castle (should be only for disabled)
and the parking on the field between the castle and Duke of Yorks which in itself is asking for a major accident as traffic is not controlled.
A "Tunnel" for A20 traffic creating a open space and free access accross the A20 thus
removing the town to seafront barrier.
With higher spending tourists there is no reason why quality shops would not wish to invest in Dover as akin to York,Winchester etc
It is however the chicken and egg situ in that until
we get the quiality tourists to the town then investment for quality shops would be difficult. In the meantime for those tourists that do visit we need to clean the town up un particular the unsightly DTIZ site with quality
landscaping.
With the correct retail and associated development jobs would be created. - Pat I agree with you visitors to the Castle should be brought into the
town .I have never understood why there is not a Stagecoach bus service that goes along the sea front and then takes people to the castle .WE would have more visitors to the town .I know many friends who have come to Dover just visit the
castle then home again .The Cable Car will not be the answer When you are in a bus you see the shops etc .
When the buses came out of the main street that was the start of people not bothering with Market Square . - Mr, Sherratt, please keep up the tunnel project proposal under Townwall St., which I also suggested on this page recently, as it is the only logical start to any DTIZ development,
and would also be of benefit to the residents at Gateway and to Dover in general, taking down the barrier dividing the town from the Seafront.
May-be I could suggest considering the Dartford tunnel toll, to help pay expenses, which is
a precedent, as this toll already exists in Dartford, and therefore could in theory be applied in Dover, if the port-toll proposal is flung out. - Come on chaps, the
tunnel is a total non starter. What is viable however, but still expensive, is dual carriageway from Courtwood to Whitfield. Then forget the Western Docks development (apart from leisure craft) and expand the eastern side. - Terry
Many thanks
I have supported since the mid 80's the dualling of the A2 and have, like many people, sought this from the Highways
Agency and Dept of Transport. The Whitfield developments will require a Whitfield Bypass so dualling will occur.
Even if the A2 is dualled there will still be cross Dover traffic on the A20... I am not "artistic" so can't put
on this site the image re the tunnel. But it would in fact be built accross the existing A20 with the level of the A20 being lowered some 4 to 6ft. So actually no tunnelling which is expensive. The area above the A20 would then become a
piazza giving free access town to seafront and better visual aspect from Gateway to the town....We must start thing outside the box. - Mr Sherratt, what you are saying is
nothing new,it has been talked about before time and time again but we are still not geting anything done,sorry but that is how thing are,what we need is a new DDC planning dept with new face,s and get rid of some of the old ones, they
have been the hold up in Dover for years. - Pat
Sounds like you have been talking to Mike McF.
Any tunnel idea may get people's
hopes up but is just not going to happen.
If money was no object, there may be a very slight and I mean very slight chance, but not with the expense of dualling the A2 as well.
As Terry said, creating a dual carriageway from
the Courtwood junction to Whitfield, would have been better and this is I believe was one of the options put forward when the A20 was extended into Dover back in the early/middle 90s.
If the Lib-Dems get in (I know this is not a
political thread) they will cut road-building and increase public transport - trains and new tracks.
Roger - Re Tunnel
No not talked to MikeF...I first
raised at lesat 5 years ago including to Sec of Transport in particular as polution level in Townwall Street above maximum EU levels.
If DTIZ and up to Moats is considered as a "package" we should seek what the town really
wants...this was the object of D H's meeting.
If in the past nothing done no reason to not try again, as my Grandmother used to say "If at first you don't succeed, try,try again".
I was active when as a Senior Manager
here in Dover in the late 80s when DDC and the Ferry Companies supported and fought for dualling the A2.
However Whitfield developments will actually help the dualling as they will require a by-pass. The A20 will still have
traffic to the Eastern Docks and the option I am suggesting is the most cost efficient.
The Sec of State,DDC and KCC should be seeking finance from Bruxelles as the road currently does not comply with EU polution levels. The road
is a main supply for the economy of the UK and more pressure is required on the Government of the day.
If this was in France by now unions and residents would have blocked the road until their Government done something.
- Many e-mails both locally and from away ( a very nice long e-mail from a lady I have never met and some clients who would like to get involved) and people dropping by to
agree. This weekend Radio Kent may have it. I did say its a pipe dream as the system doesn't allow for proper discussion or consultation.
Thank you everyone for your constructive comments. I care for my Town and
passionately believe that a supermarket would create nothing and make us look cheap. This proposal would attract the real money in we need.
Anyway I have had my say. its up to others to follow through.
Too logical for
some.
D - And a good say it was too David, lets hope we see some movement in the right direction.
- Could I point out that, according to a recent article in one of the local Dover newspapers, Dover's Docks handle about 80 billion pounds worth of freight a year! If
this figure is rigtht, and there was no print mistake, I think we should reconsider throwing out useful proposals such as the tunnel, as Dover cannot just be exploited to maximum efficiency for Britain's and Europe's trade without
having a right to a albeit very small fraction of that sum, at least to compensate for the immense sacrifices Dover has made and makes in order for the traffic to pass through and make use of port-service. I do not think the e.u. should
be dragged in with funds, as "e.u. funds" are nought less and nought more then tax-payers money, and Brussels doesn't need to collect tax from Britain and then hand it to us saying "it's a benevolent present from Brussels, so now
obey us"! No! it's not, it's tax-payers money, and we are all tax-payers! So let's keep this one in national terms without placing false crowns and laurels on the heads of the e.u. cliche in Brussles, who so many British people want
to see ridded of from our Country's affairs. As the e.u. theme is a political theme, also object of the General Elections, I'd suggest we avoid bringiong it into the topic concerning Dover's regeneration aspirations!
- Dear Mr. Hannent, I have just carried out a preview calculation, and come to the conclusion that the project to create many shops in the DTIZ will not pay off! Firstly,
we would have to assume that enough tourists would come to shop there. Secondly, cruise-liner tourists never purchase food items to carry away onto cruise liners, nor to they book into hotels, as they are supplied with bed and food on
board. They may, however unlikely, stop over at a breakfast shop, but this is also included in their cruise-liner ticket!
All in all, they would find enough shops for snacks, clothes and souvenirs already standing in Dover!
So new shops at DTIZ would only end up depriving from the already existing retail businesses in Dover that little which tourists might purchase! And these, being divided between DTIZ shops and the other shops, would not by enough
either in the one group or the other for anyone to make a profit!
Also, Dovorians would do some shopping at DTIZ, but in so doing, would shop less in the existing shops.
So in the end, we'd have a situation in which many
shops now in function in Dover would close down as a result of DTIZ shops, or substantially lose business! It can't work! It would never pay off!
This applies as much to food as to clothes shops, and any kind of general product
dispensary, as well as to furniture and electro-applainces, and of-course to restaurants and coffee-shops. We have more than enough of them all already in function in Dover!
Furthermore, the trade at a DTIZ shopping centre would
function only in the tourist season, so all through Winter there would be very little going indeed!
I believe that the Brighton project just cannot apply to Dover, we have even more than enough ice-cream sellers here! Dover is
Dover! - I also would like to point out that a hotel at DTIZ would not pay off, as the Churchill (former White Cliffs) is standing and empty, then we have the Premier, and
it would be wise to ascertain if there are not already enough hotel rooms at the Seafront to accomodate tourism, as well as the bed and breakfasts! - Dramatic pictures of
the fire there Colette, excellent. - I think Alexander does have some very good points there,but if and that is a big if it all came about,it would bring alot more public into
Dover and some of them would go into the town and that might help the shops in the town centre.
Morrinsons have just done that some of the public going into their shop then go into the upper part of the town and slowly it is paying
off.So two sides to it all,also anything is better than nothing. - Dear Mr Alexander
I am interested in your opinions and be sure that
all are taken on board but your conclusion is not shared by many.
However no doubt those charged with taking it forward will consider that in as much as they consider the supermarket option.
Its a pity you could not attend
on tuesday as your contribution would have been a good start for discussion. It was pointed out that the scheme was designed to inprove the footfall in the town and thus benefit the existing businesses with new spending - not pricipally
cruise liners but the many passing tourists who are not welcomed here.
I do hope that The Churchill will not be vacant long but I was not the one to propose a new hotel - that is already in the Asda scheme - and I did not include
work to Townwall street.
If you have specific detail I would be pleased for you to send it to me but I am at this stage less concerned with detail that can be changed but rather that the vision of a properly consulted Master plan
is adopted. - i love the idea, just cannot see it ever taking off.
i think that it has to be fully backed up by the district council and the chamber of
commerce to have a chance.
their respective records suggest this will not happen.
having said that, it is good to see a positive proposal for dover rather than just slagging off things that are already
proposed. - Good picture of the house fire there Colette must have been one hell of a bang.
- I have
just been told that the Churchill could have been sold, I know no more than that. - And the Port is
next... - Hope you are right Vic. It doesn't want to stay closed for long.
The cost of the lease is very reasonable, but the cost of refurbishing may be as much again -
but worth it to the new owner
All (or most) of the business while it has been closed, has gone to the County and they will have enjoyed that and will continue to do so while it is being done
up.
Roger - I also hope I am right but I am far from100%on this one ,and if it has what will it be used for,it could be flats, or open up again,I just do not
know. - Love the photos, sorry to hear about your stolen lunch , im sure he or she enjoyed it. lol
- Dear David H, thankyou for your reply. I do in fact have a proposal that could apply to a part of the DTIZ area, which would still leave the larger part of DTIZ open for
additional projects.
The proposal is part of a larger economic project for Kent I had devised about a month ago, and which initially seemed to have encountered a successful start, although I am still waiting for information. It has to
do with training being made available for the Kentish youth along a new line, with plenty of Council involvement, rather than abandoning young people to unemployment. It has to do with agriculture, and work in food processing factories,
and principally, reversing the mass influx of poeple from other countries into these work-sectors in our County and helping young people from Kent gain an interest in and access to agriculture-based work, including farming and food-
processing (for example Tilmanstone salads).
DTIZ came into it in the sense that I had proposed an academy for research into agricultural development in arid or semi-desert areas of the world, and for irrigation and fertilization
techniques, which would also have the advantage of enhancing local production in Kent both of natural fertilisers and of irrigation facilities, including infrastructure for the transformation of sea-water into water fit for agriculture
in various parts of the world where water is scarse. This could be the basis for future trade with many Arab countries, for example, both those which are extremely rich and those which are poor, and could prevent in the future mass
exodus of populations which have a high birth-rate but risk not having enough fertile soil to farm.
An acadamy of research that would be able to supply projects, and also many jobs to local companies in Kent - and why not: in Britain!
In fact I believe many countries, for example in Africa and in the Arabian peninsula, and also in the Mesopotamian area, migh be very interested in such future projects on a large scale, and this would create plenty of work and income to
companies able to supply the infrastructure!
This would still leave a large part of DTIZ open for other planning, as an academy would take up limited space. I thought of planning it next to the Britannia, may-be on the other side of
the Dour.
- Ha ha ha....love the lunch stealer!
- ahh the *******, a dirty rotten scoundrel of the worst
variety ! - Paul, I hope now you believe in aliens and that we can change ourselves into other life forms. It was nice to meet you today, and thank you very much for the lunch. I
shall be myself next time we meet. - I assumed he gull-ped it down?
I hope it was a chicken sandwich, it'd be akin to us eating a close cousin or a chimpanzee,
evolutionary speaking.
Cheeky thing. - sorry i will rephrase that,its a foo hawk class2.
- strange the creatures
that paul keeps as pets.
first it was the feral pigeons, now the herring gulls.
maybe a budgie would be more suitable?
wouldn't nick his sandwich. - A Hork has just taken out a Dove in my garden ,the Dove was feeding off the table and down it came just left all the feathers, all over the place,
- General
Election/Public Spending cuts.
Who ever wins the next election and even if we have a hung Parliament there will be considerable/devastating cuts in Public Spending.
In the not to distant future Dover and East Kent could reduce
the effect of these cuts in Public Spending.
We have four district councils providing the same services to East Kent.This is an enormous cost of unecessary/excessive administration.With economies of scale by merging the four councils
we could reduce this wastage by millions of pounds.
A Unitary Council would have a massive influence on the provision of public services and have a voice at national level. - Reg ,DDC already share some services with neighboroughing authorities .The Payrole has just gone over and Waste very soon .Housing is on the agenda .Audit has been for
some time now .The Careline is now managed by Shepway . - quite right susan.
i seem to remember reading that shepway are not overly keen on too much
amalgamation.
another subject.
good to hear that about the pier, not an angler myself, but the thought of a roast beef in gravy baguette has set my stomach
rumbling. - Shepway are more keen now....
- Shopping around is the terminology Paul
- Dover District Council:Reality.
The Dover District Council failed to grasp the reality that they could not build our
`Hospital`on a mid town site.
The Officers and Senior Members failed to advise our Councillors of the facts to enable them to vote for a sensible/logical solution.The Councillors failed to use their independent opinion/judgment
because they followed their political party instructions.
The DDC have failed to grasp the reality of merging all public services of our Four District Councils.
The Officers and senior members have failed to advise our Cllrs on the
reality of a Unitary Council.
The Cllrs have failed to use independent thought.They have followed their political party instructions.
Because DDC administration failed to face the reality of the `Hospital` issue they wasted `Two
Years`of better Health Provision to the people of Dover District.
How many years are to be wasted before DDC administation grasp the reality of the necessity of a Unitary Council of East Kent to tackle and deal with the future
draconian(mini Greek) cuts in Public Spending? - Spent a nice day in Dover last week (when we had a few days of lovely weather) and ended up on the pier, and had a
great baguette & coffee @ a good price, and realized while being served that the lady @ fisherman friend (Julia Nichols) had written the book I had just finished reading, we had a lovely chat, both fisherman friend & Julia's book to be
recommended. - Good to hear from you Vickie, glad you enjoyed your visit to Dover and to the new Fishermans Friend. That news item has now moved into our archives at All
Recent Features see menu on left.
Some good posts there Reg which should catch the attention of Paul Watkins himself. I know people feel that Unitary Councils could save money but rather like the Conservative plans to have fewer
MP's at Westminster, the humble citizen gets fewer and fewer people representing him..or to put it another way and more correctly perhaps...his vote becomes less valuable with every widening boundary. Our current MP represents Dover and
Deal...under the new Conservative plans to have fewer MP's, would this area for example have to take in say Folkestone as well. It would just mean, as far as Im concerned anyway, that each individual voter/person will have a smaller
voice in Westminster. - Just a few comments on Reg's posting.
There isn't a Conservative whip at DDC so Councillors can vote whichever way they choose to;
if I can't be convinced of the rationale behind what's being proposed, I don't vote for it - simple.
I don't believe that a Unitary Authority for East Kent would be good for Dover District residents - DDC and the other nearby
LA are sharing what services they feel are best and save the most and of course most workable.
I also feel that a Mid-Town future-proofed hospital would have been better for all Dover (District) people.
If everyone had got
behind it and argued the to relevant bodies and organisations to sort out the relevant flood-plain area problems, then they would have started that ages ago.
As there wasn't a united front on it, the PCT have now moved to
Buckland, so they weren't convinced that Whitfield was the right location.
Don't forget that the whole of any mid-town development, depends on these flooding issues being
resolved.
Roger - It is sad to see Mr Prosser repeating his mantra of the past decade and blaming Mrs Thatcher for all the ills of East Kent. Surely if the
coalfields were such a viable option why didn't he persue their reopening. If he had been successful he would have retained his seat for ever. Secondly, why try to retain his seat on the perceived failings of others, why not let us know
of his successes in the constituancy these past 13 years to retain his seat. Why? because their are none to speak of that would stand scrutiny. - excellent coverage of the
visit from the cabinet minister.
note pauls comments on the p.m. suddenly showing passion.
up until now the reds campaign has looked over stage managed, now we are seeing the personality of gordon brown himself.
caught a few
moments today on the campaign trail, he actually looks at ease with people when asked difficult questions.
the blues have used david cameron as their main weapon, the yellows(after the first debate) wisely followed suit with nick
clegg.
- Come on impartiality please .A couple of shots of Charlie and John the Liberal guy Im sorry to sound like sour grapes but really .!! I know the rules
and this is not cricket . - I cant get anything through from Charlie, have asked..even yesterday again I asked. No answer. But am putting up piece by piece what i can get from
anyone ..but even then I cant get it all up at once Sue...it takes considerable time to do it all but by the election will give everyone a fair go. But there is only so much I can do if they dont send anything through to me. Im going out
of my way to be as balanced as possible. - Sue, the General Election will decide the rest! Sour grapes in these cases always come after a gen. Election. I think
we've al seen more than enough of many of them! - Thank you again for that Paul,The Dover Forum is very fair,not like the meetings in Dover and Deal where I was not
allowed to take part at all I had to jump up to have my say even then they try to shout me down but it did not work,and take it from me I again will be puting our case on the Stage of the Town hall on Thursday night,I will fight on till
I drop,We will be fighting for seats in the locals next May,for us this will kick off in June. again thank you all and if you want to save the UK THEN VOTE UKIP ON Thursday. - I believe the snapper for the UKIP job earlier in the campaign was Phil Medgett. Credit due to him, and they are some good shots indeed.
- I like Vic's frockcoat.
- Thank you Alec I love wearing them ,I am going to be wearing one on Election NIGHT and
it will not be that one and it is deep red on the inside.I do not wear it alot it is my best one,it only comes out on the one off events. - Also
I got them in Dover at Drews great shop for the one offs and all my great ties come from there to.They have some great gear get along there and see for your self. - Paul, as Secretary for the Dover & Deal Branch of UKIP could I thank you, on behalf of the Branch, for your extremely interesting and in my opinion "fair"
coverage of Vic`s campaign during the last few weeks.
If only the national media would also give us equal billing then I honestly believe that we would be up there with the Lib-Dems and the new "heir to Blair" Nick Clegg. As
you are no doubt aware, Vic could not even obtain an invite to ANY of the local hustings and this is yet another good example of just how difficult we in UKIP find it to get our message across.
Sue may not appreciate the coverage
that you have kindly given us on the Forum, but let`s face it, night after night, our TV`s have been fully occupied by the "Big Three" so it makes a refreshing change to be given an even break for once.
Again, many
thanks. - Roger, I asked them to come because like it or not they are the Directors of the Dover district Chamber Of Commerce,Blue Barry said on this very
page that the Chammber of Commerce would never go to a meeting with lord Pearson,and now you can see that they done just that. It was planned some weeks before your fallout with the Chamber,but I must say now that even if we had know
about it we would have stilled gone ahead with it,because at this time as I said befor they are the Directors of the C/C and I was hoping they could have a few words with Lord pearson about supporting and helping the Business in Dover
and the Chamber have been doing that from 1850, so they were the right persons to do just that,as it was I do not know what they were talking about I was not told after. Sorry but that is the way it is at this time. - john
i feel certain that paulb has been delighted to play host to such a lively campaign from ukip.
vic is a larger than life character, and has also
given the full details of the manifesto, probably the only one i have read in full.
all parties and candidates were invited to contribute. - After the loss of
one of the three Chain Home masts recently, can I ask if there are going to be any kind of celebrations in Dover this summer to mark the 70th anniversary of the Battle of Britain?
- caught me out on that one adrian.
have to make some enquiries, we have some events already lined up.
that rolls bloke, and the centenary of him crossing the
channel and the western heights weekend.
i believe that hellfire weekend is a goer too.
maybe another poster will give you the answer to your question. - MEMORIAL DAY 2010 - BRITAIN'S 70TH ANNIVERSARY TRIBUTE TO THE FEW
The Patron of the Battle of Britain Memorial Trust, HRH Prince Michael of Kent, will be the guest of honour at the annual tribute to the airmen of the
Battle of Britain at Capel-le-Ferne, on Sunday, 11 July.
This special commemoration, featuring the 70th anniversary of the start of the Battle of Britain on 10 July 1940, will feature flypasts by the iconic aircraft of the Battle
of Britain Memorial Flight.
HRH Prince Michael will be joined by surviving veterans of the fighting and by the most senior figure in the Royal Air Force, Air Chief Marshal Sir Stephen Dalton, Chief of the Air Staff.
The
open air service and parade at the National Memorial on the cliff top between Folkestone and Dover is open to the public and free to attend.
Group Captain Patrick Tootal, Secretary of the Battle of Britain Memorial Trust,
explained: "We pay tribute every year to The Few, the men of RAF Fighter Command who were at the forefront of preventing a German invasion, as well as to the many men and women whose support in so many ways helped to ensure that we all
live in freedom today."
"The trustees are hoping that this 70th anniversary event will be supported by a particularly large number of people."
The Memorial Site opens to visitors at 10am and the day will include a band
display by the Kent Wing Air Training Corps. The parade, supported by music and hymns played by the RAF Central band, will open at 1.30 pm with a 'general salute' for HRH Prince Michael of Kent and three fly-pasts by the BBMF Spitfire
and Hurricane.
After a commemorative service conducted by Chaplain-in-Chief of the RAF the Venerable Ray Pentland, the Act of Remembrance and wreath laying, the BBMF's Hurricane and Spitfire will return, accompanied this time by
the Lancaster.
At 4 pm the event will end with the Sunset ceremony and music from the RAF Central Band
- thanks for that paul, will note it in my
diary.
- Howard, Thanks for your kind words.
I have to say that many of your previous comments have also been appreciated. Not to mention your keen
sense of humour!
- Thanks for that Paul - very interesting. Sounds a very good commemmoration.
I have dealt with Group Captain Patrick Tootal
on a few previous occasions when promoting the Battle of Britain Memorial - an extremely good man.
Roger - Holy Spitfires! I've read quite a few disturbing
articles in the last few days about border control being dismantled in Dover. I'm concerned that people might come over concealed in trailors and risk suffocation. Once the word goes round in Calais that the border is not properly
guarded, people might try risking it.
Would it not be the case to inform various authorities to prevent a tragedy happening?
- good to see our local yellow
candidate on the front page.
evens things out a bit. - The only way to put the"Great"in front of Britain again is by "VOTING UKIP TODAY"tHANK
you.
"UKIP"has 12MEPS,two Lords, and more than 100local councillors spread across the country,now we are asking the Great British PEOPLE TO VOTE IN OUR FIRST DIRECTLY ELECTED WESTMINSTER MPs. - Today I have voted for the first time! I voted for British Independence and Sovereignty!
- Lets
face it, whoever wins, nothing basically will change for the average working man. Who was that said, " If voting changed anything they would ban it" or " Dont vote, it only encourages them". - Alexander 20.000 more like you and we are there. Thank you.
- Congratulations to Charlie - good turnout and good
majority.
Commiserations to Gwyn.
Sorry Vic - you tried very hard - hope you enjoyed your breakfast yesterday.
Roger - Yes indeed congratulations
to Charlie and commiserations again to Gwyn who has served this community well for many years.
Nationally the result isnt fully in just yet...but the early piece of big news is the staggering shock that the Libdems have falled to
make any kind of breakthrough, despite the heroic performances of Nick Clegg on TV. There was no new dawn for them.
UKIP nationally havent appeared to make any breakthrough either, in fact their results look a little
disappointing. However Vic fought a very energetic campaign and did well here in Dover and roughly on par with performances elsewhere...but more info later. - WELL
DONE CHARLIE!!!! x - Im so glad Charlie won .I dont mind my feet aching it was worth the walking around .
I had to go to bed at 1.00am my little eyes could not keep awake
.
My son has just rung me from Norway where he is working .For people like my sons who work hard I only hope DC can become our Prime Minister .
Surely Gordon Brown has got the message /.
It was time for change and here
in Dover we have got it - oh well here we go again another 5 years of tory misery.
- God help us, a carpetbagger in
power in Dover! - Good morning,Sorry I am late it has been alng night,I must say we did not do so well as I was hoping but we done our best,well done to the blues,and I do have
some feeling for Gwen he has been around along time.What happens now,as I said to the UKIP team last night ,I thnk we will be doing all this again within the next to years.
But on alight note I did win some thing last night,I was
told I was the best dress man in the town hall.
Again thank you and for the pubic that did vote for us,and I will not be going away,well not for long.
Thank you to the Dover Forum for their cover over the weeks.
And
last UKIP helpers they worked very hard unlike the big 3 we do not have all the helers we would like and beween us we done alot of miles on foot. Vic MATCHAM - Congratulations Charlie and my commiserations to Gwyn. Personally I feel this is a result for Dover and am looking forward to seeing some real
change! - Congratulations to Charlie, and commiserations to the also-rans.
It will be interesting to see what Charlie can deliver for Dover after 13 years of
decline and misery. - well done chas, hope you will do your very best for the constituancy.
commiserations to gwyn.
two things
stand out in that result, the disappointing vote for vic, and the high vote for the bnp who hardly campaigned at all. - Massive Congraulations to Charlie, this is a
fantastic result for Dover - I hope the people of Dover do not rue the day they voted for the tories. It would appear that the lessons of the thatcher years have
fallen on deaf ears.
We would do well to remember the words of "Bomber Harris" when he said "They sowed the wind now they will reap the harvest".
Lets just see in six months time if those shiney little tory faces are still
shining as bright as they are today, or will they be to busy bawling about the nasty tax rises they ( the tories have imposed.
"We're doomed I tell you, we're doomed" - Jimmy
You are obviously entitled to your own opinion but the people of Dover have spoken. - To reflect
on the national situation for a moment ..it is truly amazing about the Libdems, their complete lack of a breakthrough following their extremely good campaign has certainly left me baffled. No leader could have done more...I mean we had a
Cleggmania of almost pop star status, yet this stratospheric 'happening' did not show at all in the only poll that counts.
As Ive mentioned popstar..maybe his campaign could be likened to a pop song..its all the rage for three
weeks and then goes as flat as a cowpat. Looks like thats what happened to poor oul Nick...sadly. - just seen cleggy on the box, looks a completely different bloke
frim the campaign.
totally stressed out.
he has a massive decision to make, will upset a lot of people whatever he does now. - Louise, River,Dover,
Dear
louise perhaps you would be kind enough to explain to me how Charlie Elphick's win is as you say "Fantastic"? as I am extremely confused.
Could it be that you think Mr Elphick is going to wave a (Blue) magic wand and everything
will be alright??
After all this time you surely must be aware of the fact that the council has been in tory hands for years. Look what your beloved tory carpet beggars have done for the town?? or perhaps you have'nt noticed the
place is a wreck??.
An MP represents a constituancy which covers a wide area he does not make policy on the council, although with this lot any thing is possible.
The running of the town is the responsability of the locally elected
council and in this sad case the tories control the decisions that affect the town NOT. the MP!! - Clegg flattered to deceive, people realised there was no substance
behind the smile. - WHo wants to take a bet on how long before the tories get round to selling the port??
- There's certainly no mystery as to why Clegg nosedived - his policies!
Once people looked past the "We're not one of the old parties" (actually the liberal party has been around for more than a century) and examined what
they really stood for minds took over from hearts.
It shouldn't be too long before there is a bid for the leadership of the liberals, after all why should they put up with somebody who has actually lost them seats?
Well done
Charlie by the way. - i think louise is probably referring to the ability of an mp to lobby the top brass in westminster to help out poor old
dover. - Howard Mcsweeney,
Now try moving into the real world!!. Gwyn Prossers lobbying in parliment with his own party did'nt work so what is going to be so
different with Mr Elphick and his own party??.
- Jimmy ,of Whitfield having worked alongside Charlie for some time .I say he has the drive and will certainly
campaign on behalf of Dover to get the improvements required.
DDC needs someone like him as MP working alongside a Conservative Controlled DDC and a Conservative County Council .
Working together we will bring back the pride
into our District /.
Charlie is a breath of fresh air . - Sue River,
Never known a bad egg to exude fresh air!! Oh well,I suppose I shall have to get used to
miracles - Well done Vic for the brave and valorous campaign you made, remember that those who voted for British Independence and Sovereignty will continue
democratically, and this means your party must continue, and also that dialogue with Charlie and the Tories - assuming the Conservatives will be within the coming government - should be essential, as expresion of ideas are a fundamental
part of Democracy. God forbid that Libdem and Laour get in! - A further remarkable feature about this election, and there are many remarkable features, was the accuracy of
the opinion polls. The latest one..or more accurately..the last one, the Exit Poll, was staggering in its accuracy...saying Libdems would get 55 seats or something. This is what it said at the beginning of the election coverage around
10pm on the three main channels last night, BBC, Sky, ITV...of course I dismissed it as total rubbish at the time thinking the Cleggites were on a major roll. But Im afraid the polls were almost uncannily accurate and yours truly was
completely wrong...alas alas not for the first time. - Dear Mr. Elphicke, there is no doubt that the Conservative Party will do much better than Labour has done;
may I express a wish:
that our fair County of Kent is spared this heneous mass immigration that Labour has inflicted on us, and is not further colonised. It's our Garden, and I do not agree that colonisers come marching in and taking
over. I don't want them, and believe many people don't want them! - Well done PaulB for your fair coverage of the campaign, which was not like that of the mass media
which only gave three parties a chance! - YESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well done Charlie boy! - So who is
George Lee-Delisle? 82 people seemed to have liked him! Maybe he's got a large family. - i thought that too terry, same as the other 2 candidates that got
so little response.
could george lee-delisle be an anagram?
i will start the ball rolling, i reckon his first name is elsie. - Congratulations Charlie! A
very good majority and a very good turnout. You definitely got the people out to vote.
Commiserations to Gwyn, must be sad for him to lose after a successful thirteen
years. - I'm with Louise - fantastic that Charlie won for Dover - now we'll see the town moving forward, whatever Mr Sourgrapes from Whitfield
says.
I like Gwyn as a person, he was very kind to my late father, but I really think we need a younger MP like Charlie with his fresh ideas and get up and go.
Vic well done - you fought a strenuous campaign but I'm not
sorry you didn't win mate - still think you're a laugh though!
Well done Charlie - you deserved to win and I look forward to seeing you drag this town up by its breeches.
A good day for
Dover.
- Dear Jacqui,
You really must grow up in your comments. Sour grapes of Whitfield, as you put it has no relevance in the situation Dover finds itself
in.
Believe you me If I thought for one moment a new MP of a different colour was the panacea to cure Dovers problems I would be whole heartedly in favour but alas as you will find out that is not the reality of the situation as time
will tell.
I trust your rash judgement of me will come back to haunt you when you realise some months down the line that my opinion was in fact correct, that despite a new cherubic faced tory no progress will be made.
We now
have a county council, a town council, and a tory MP.
One could not make it up in ones worst nightmares.
ROLL ON THE NEXT ELECTION!! - jimmy long,i like your
sarcasm but when would you like the next election,today,tomorrow or next week.i must admit i am hacked of to,but there again i am a cynic so im told. live long and prosper. - I
think the present situation is a shambles.
The conservatives should have won such a big majority to command control, instead they just about cling on to the biggest party.
I fear this will not be enough, and why should the
failed Lib Dems who lost seats have any say in who bcomes the next prime minister?
I think the headline is correct, Labour and Gordon Brown have never been so unpopular and so the conservatives should have wiped the floor with
them.
Instead we saw labour still able to form a Govt should the failed Lib Dem talks break down.
I think what will happen is the conservatives/lib dems talks will either work but conservative and lib dem members will
reject a deal and will destroy it over time.
Although Labour and Lib dem appear closer on P/R is this a desperate move by GB to hold on to number 10?
although it's now predicted P/R would benefit Labour.
And if P/R is so
wonderful, why has GB always voiced against it?
I think it will all end in tears, and in a couple of years (maybe less) with the conservatives having to go alone as no agreement with others.
They will come under attack from
other parties(public spending cuts) and own members/MP's Which will force them out via a general election.
It's all so unstable, and it's strange when DC spoke so much against any hung govt.
Funny what power surges can
do.
Looks lke desperation to me. - I see Charlie has his picture in the Times today together with a quote. I might keep it as a souvenir!
- Interesting post there Stephen...in fact good to see all the posts on politics which in its own way shows the level of interest in this last election..there is also the thread on the forum
following the result, but also the endless other threads during the campaign. There was a great buzz.
Charlie in The Times, thats a bit of a coup there Terry, for Charlie. Wonder why he was singled out and featured, perhaps it was
the level of swing on the swingometer. Quite a big swing. Reversing roughly a 5,000 majority for Labour...to a roughly 5,000 majority for the Conservatives. So quite a swing for a marginal seat. Did the extra Conservative budget play a
part in all this? - With regard to the conservative budget, If David cameron is happy that with all the dosh spent, still he could not command a landslide, then
this was failure in my eyes.
I woke up expecting a conservative land slide, instead we are now left with todays shambles.
So just shows, throwing money at things doesn't always work.
Lets hope we get towards
another general election soon, It cant go on like this.
- there was a clip of chas celebrating victory at the count on sky news
yesterday. - Dear Spock Vulcan ,
If i was a "Spock " I would most certainly be hacked off!!
As far as an election goes how about tomorrow?? I dont think I
would have the patience to wait a whole week.
P.S.
I have lived long and prospered. So thank you for the kind thought!!
Would I be correct in thinking that the sign given as a greeting by vulcan is two fingers raised?? most
appropriate,dont you think?? - like stephen, i am completely mystified how a party that had so much money at their disposal, facing an extremely unpopular government,
that fights a lousy campaign, still cannot command a majority. - iHoward Mcsweeney,
It does,nt take much working out about why we are in such a stalemate.
The
reason is that all the parties encouraged a state of indecision.By that I mean that they all were falling over themselves by telling us what other parties were going to cut in the months ahead. But most importantly none of them were
prepared to put there neck on the block and tell us what exactly there own parties would cut. I fear to say we are about to get the indecision kicked out of us who ever finally takes control. And boy are we gonna pay big time.
Not to
late for a re-run are we?? - I have a feeling that all parties are eating sour grapes!
- It seems
that no party has won the election, and BBC4 said this morning there might be a minority Tory gov. and then a Gen. Election within a few months!
Vic, keep all Regiments ready for another election campaign!
Not that I'm disputing
Charlie's victory, which is fair enough, but nationwide our Country needs a gov. - i believe there should be another general election called. Far to many voters didnt get
a chance to vote (and yes before anyone like mark says polls open from 7am till 10pm ) but everyone should of been allowed to vote this mess needs to be sorted asap and them votes could change everything............ - It might just be, Melissa, that UKIP supporters turned up late in the day, in vast numbers, and couldn't get in to vote. Yes, it might have changed the results!
- and pigs might fly alex.
- Firstly, I`d like to congratulate Charlie on his victory. I think he`ll make a
very good MP for Dover and has always come across as a really decent guy. ( He`s not as well dressed as Vic Though! )
Secondly, as half-expected, UKIP has had a massive baring on the overall election result. Thanks to
Conservative Central Office and Daves intransigence, the Blues now find themselves having to cosy up to Clegg & Co., in order to form a working Government.
This must be the last thing that they wanted, but were aware of the
possibility of this situation before voting began. This then begs the question, and if I was a member of the Conservative Party I`d be furious, as to WHY Dave refused to offer UKIP something in the way of a promised referendum on the
EU. Just look at the results below and you`ll see what I mean.
The Conservatives could have had a comfortable working majority if they had made an unequivocal commitment to a referendum on British membership of the EU
The UKIP vote would have collapsed and - whilst not every one of the 25 seats below might have gone to the Tories - there can be no doubt they would have had a working majority of about 40.
Constituency where the Blues
came second.
Winner's majority UKIP vote
Bolton West 92 901
Derby N 613
829
Derbyshire NE 2445 2636
Dorset Mid 269 2109
Dudley N 649 3267
Great Grimsby 714 2043
Hampstead & Kilburn 42 408
Hull N 641 1358
Middlesbrough S
1677 1881
Morley & Outwood 1101 1506
Newcastle-U-Lyme 1552 3491
Norwich S 310
1145
Oldham E 103 1720
Plymouth Moor 1588 3188
Rochdale 889 1999
Sheffield
Central 165 652
Solihull 175 1200
Somerset & Frome 1817 1932
Southampton & Itchen
192 1928
St Austell & Newquay 1312 1757
St Ives S 1719 2860
Swansea West 504
716
Walsall N 990 1737
Walsall S 800 1711
Wirral S 531 1274
Worse, they could and should have won Wells, which was lost to the Lib-Dims. The LD majority was 800 and the UKIP vote 1711.
Why did no one at CHQ consider this option as favourable, it would certainly have avoided the
mess their in now.
I guess the answer is that Dave is not quite the Eurosceptic he`d have us believe.
- ggod post john.
i have thoroughly
enjoyed seeing the arrogance of the blues(and the reds too) being pricked..
great to see them grovelling around now, trying to form administrations with the sandal wearers. - Rather than have the problems associated with a hung parliament and the posssibility and expense of another General Election in the not too distant future, why not allow a
postal vote to those that missed their chance to vote by the massive queues in some constituencies?
Also those that were not able to vote because administration errors should also be given the chance.
This may produce a few
surprises!
- So the party that everyone rejected convincingly decides the future of Parliament. A case of the tail wagging the dog.
Despite all 3 parties saying
that they will not engage in forming a government with the other 2 they are now prepared to do so.
What total hypocrisy!!
If the Tories really had the the country at heart they would ally with New Labour,but no that would mean
relinqishing power to the enemy.
After all we have rejected one Tory Government for possibly another so really they have more in common with one another.
Thats why the elctorate were so confused. Both New Labour and Conservatives
are so alike they couldn't make up their minds. - David,
if you recall, Nick Clegg said on numerous occassions that in the case of a hung parliament then the party with
most votes/seats had the moral right to form a government. If Cameron wishes to bolster his Party by involving the Lib Dems, that's up to Cameron, but you can't accuse Clegg of being anything other than clear about it. He said that
Parties should work together and he is now talking to the largest party. What more do you want from a politian - he's keeping his word - Well,
I'v always voted for
Mrs Nicholas and Mr Richardson, and the conservatives, but if they sell out to the Lib Dems I will have to re consider.
I'm against any form of P/R and did NOT vote for Lib Dems to be in the cabinet.
I urge my leader to go
alone, and then if required go for another general election in a year or so.
To do otherwise will lose many of us tory voters, and harm any future general election for the conservatives, which I have passion for. - stephen(dover) is right, nick clegg always made that quite clear, i do not see mr cameron going ahead with it though.
there are two many fundamental differences between the
parties.
stephen (river), i have to disagree totally with you over proportional representation.
all i can remember is when the big two have stitched up the country with the corrupt first past the post system.
parties take
power with about a third of the vote. - Stephen of River Thank you for the support you have given to me and I hope when I stand for election in 2011 you will consider
me on merit .
Its too early for canvassing for next years election for the District however I will continue to work hard for you and all the other people in the ward of River with Alkham - In view of this country's continued membership of the European Union and its open borders policy. Is it feasible that we could end up with an eastern european coming to
this country and by right of residence, standing as an MP or even worse possibly be able to contest the leadership of the government of the day?? - i can see that
happening, so long as they take up british citizenship.
i believe that in the united states, the president has to be born there. - not shaw about that howard
arnie the terminater who is govener of california is of austrian desent.or a better example barek obama. - you may well be right be right brian.
governors of states can be
any nationality, not sure about presdents though, remember henry kissinger?
he did not qualify to be candidate for president because of his place of birth.
i thought mr obama was born in hawaii.
maybe someone will have
the full facts. - "Borat from kazakstan for prime minister"
Must say it has a certain appeal. (Things are bad but we must remember to see the funny side of
life) - i must admit to not having a problem where people are born.
is someone from abroad rises through ther ranks here to the level of prime minister they have
must have assimilated well and made a lot of good friends and allies along the way.
does not affect their committment and ability to lead our country. - Howard mcsweeney,
Call me old fashioned if you like, you can even go as far as calling me racist if you like, but it will not alter the serious possibility that we could indeed end up with what I stated previously.
I
find it rather worrying that you accept that possibility just as long as they take out british citizenship.What ever happened to pride in being born on this island?? We take enough abuse from our dear brothers on the continent. the
majority of the people do not want to be a part of europe.
I despair for the future what with this open door policy
Gordon brown when asked what he would do about the 2 million immigrants who came hear last year replied that 2
million people from this country had moved abroad.
I have no way of contradicting those figures so I must accept what he said, however what he did not go on to tell us that the majority of those who left were not economic migrants,but
the majority of those coming here are economic migrants.
- Jimmy, I don't think your scenario is a possibility. I live in France and cannot even vote for their
politicians, apart from the local councilors and mayor. If I want to stand for mayor I have to be a nationalised frenchman.
p.s. I left the UK not for economic reasons but to get away from the Tories and all the political
bickering. - Sue Nicholas
You do work hard, and It is seen in River.
But Cameropn looks like he is going to sell out, and I don't support or have time for loony
left lib dems.
- Jimmy the level of immigration mentioned by Gordon Brown was 1 million immigrants in, and 1 million immigrants out. I expect its just the normal
tooing and froing of labour which is obviously a possibility under the EU. Most of these immigrants work well to the benefit of society, however its the erosion of the national identity that appears to be the biggest worry of all...there
just appears to be too many foreigners and the feeling exists that we are being swamped. Immigration was a big concern during the recent election.
Interestingly though no party in the Election apart from UKIP advocated pulling out
of the European Union. UKIP did not make a significant breakthrough. So Im assessing this as meaning that there is an appetite for some sort of cap on immigrants, but no appetite for a European Union
withdrawal. - stephen
david cameron has little choice at the moment.
enough people voted for the yellows, reds and ukip to make it necessary for him
to negotiate a settlement with others. - Mr. Jimmy Long, in response to your question, any eastern European national (of an e.u. state) can march to Britain this
evening and get a job the same night! In order to become prime minister it is necessary to have a British passport, which usually is issued after five years residence. I expect such minister would introduce Polish as the official
language! Most workers in Kent I suspect speak this language fluently, so it would probably be backed by the e.u. as a good law and approved in Brussels the next day! - Again, Mr Jimmy Long, in response to your latter comment, Mr. Brown's drivel about as many British people living in (all) Europe as eastern Europeans living in Britain was pure insult. He probably counted the British tourists
going on holiday to western Europe and evidently deceives people openly in front of running TV cameras!
I am no Tory supporter, but God forbid Labour ever returning to power! If Mr. Brown's statement were contested, as being
invented and deceiving, he could, as Prime Minister, get into serious trouble with the Law! For deliberately misleading the people. - Latest news:
Darling has just
obliged Britain to pay between 9,5 and 13 Billion pounds as part of a loan to Greece and possibly other bankrupt e.u. eurozone states. Apparently, he couldn't refuse because the Lisbon Treaty FORCES Britain to do so! They didn't
explain how this force would have been enacted against us if Darling had not signed, but he didn't talk with us people, just signed! But he doesn't pay the money though, it's others who pay!
If he hadn't signed, maybe the e.u.
would have declared war on us, but that wouldn't have bothered me! - Judas Priest! Imagine proportional representation becoming a reality in this country. It would drive
you mad wouldn't it? More of this rubbish and secret deals every time We vote in a general election. It's getting boring now. I've had enough. It's on 24 hours a day while real, proper news is consigned to page four or "a brief
roundup" on the television.
Yawn, yawn and thrice yawn. Oh! hang on it's just been announced that Gordon has resigned. Hip hip.
Nah! It's still boring. - that was quick
paul, i just logged on to break the news and find you even have a picture up.
philip
the coalition governments in europe and outside outnumber the single party ones.
they all seem to get on
regardless. - Howard I think you make the case against proportional representation by pointing to the amount of countries using that system in Europe. The only reason
this is being pushed as a viable system in the UK is due to some very clever news management by the encumbent desperately clinging onto power. Although they have been perfectly happy to use the first past the post system for the past
thirteen years all of a sudden labour spin doctors are going all out telling us all that PR is the best voting system ever invented.
Of course the public, gullible as ever, believe that this really is the most important issue we all
face. All that over a week.
Spin writ large.
Cameron messed up years ago with his election strategy targeting the middle ground and trying to gain the soft left votes (tree hugging and playing with huskies). It backfired big style
and now He is the biggest loser this election.
Expect more of this nonsense every election time if PR is adopted. - Whats so terrible regarding PR, we have it with our
MEP's. - Not Belgium Howard.
Just about to implode as a country - Although have no time for the
bloke, GB best thing that can happen to the country.
I think with these desperate politics DC and GB should meet and DC should inform GB that he wants to go alone as a minority party.
NO Government will be stable, but it
looks the best option. - paulw,what makes you say that about poor little belgium,im on the understanding that they where quite stable,with there beer and baccy
sales. - Paul B,
Thank you For the correction of my figures. I did state at the time that I was not sure how many either way, but never the less it does go on.
I
would like to make clear, I realise we will never withdraw from the European union, much as I would like to. It is all a matter of statistics. When people of my generation are no longer around we shall have a population who as a whole
will have been born under the auspices of the European union. They will think that the European ideal is the norm. So regretfully I have to say that parties like UKIP are flogging a dead horse and should turn there talents to forcing a
controlled immigration policy on whatever party comes to power.
It would be wrong of any one to think That by stating the obvious there is anything racist in putting it in print. I see many foreigners and socialise with people
from abroad. That does not mean to say I approve of how they got here, which probably is perfectly legal according to the law, but as we all are aware there are some bad laws passed by our westminster brethren.
Having an
immigration policy which is dictated by the EU is totally ineffective here. We are obliged against our wishes to let uncontrolled immigration from EU countries continue because they are in the EU, how bizzare is that??
One can
draw a parrellel with our immigration policy and the oil leak in the gulf of Mexico. There they have oil gushing out of the ground. Here we have uncontrolled immigration assaulting our borders unchecked. The big differance between the
two is that the americans are doing something about there problem, here we are doing precious little about ours. - Jimmy
I think you are mistaken regarding Labours record on immigration.Yes there is still lots to do but so far here are few facts for you to digest..
•In 2008, a person was removed or departed voluntarily on
average every 8 minutes, including record numbers of foreign criminals.
•Asylum applications for the last three months of 2009 were the lowest since the early 1990’s. The fall in applications has been dramatic from over 80,000
asylum claims in 2000 to around 23,400 in 2007. The cost of asylum support to the taxpayer has halved in the last 6 years.
•The Reds have introduced 100 per cent biometric visas and are rolling out compulsory ID cards for foreign
nationals who come here to work or study - 170,000 have been issued so far.
•Ratified the Council of Europe Convention Against Trafficking, strengthening the UK’s ability to catch the criminals that exploit victims of trafficking
and underlining our long-term commitment to tackle this horrific crime.
•Rogue employers now face civil penalties of up to £10,000 for each illegal worker they employ. Those found to have knowingly hired illegal workers can incur
an unlimited fine and be sent to prison.
Finally they are re-introducing embarkation controls that were scrapped under the Tories so we shall again be in the position of checking people both on arrival and at the point of their
embarkation. - Jimmy Long, it's time to specify that our controversy some months ago about building 6 thousand new homes in Whitfield was due to the fact that I had
realised then that these would all be to accomodate 40,000 settlers once all told with five children each. Sorry that I expressed myself harshly then towards you, but I can see that the reality of facts is dawning on you!
Just imagine
they had planned to build 6 000 houses in River, on Temple Jewels, with the prospect of 40. 000 settlers marching through there, I do not believe Sue would be all so supportive of the Tories! Sorry Sue, you can contest this if you
like! - Marek, I know you once misunderstood me, but let's forget that! As you also know meanwhile, I hope, I am in no way racist. Being pragmatic, I proposed an academy
in Dover for reasearch into irrigation and fertilisation of areas in other continents, to help the world's growing population, that doubles every twenty-thirty years. This could also create work in Kent for producers of irrigation
facilities including the transformation of sea-water to clean water for agricultural use, and irrigation pipe-lines. For rich and poor countries, for example, Saudi Arabia, and Chad. Some rich countries, like in the Golf, have heaps of
money, and probably would welcome some good ideas and good work in return for some of this money, as these Golf states too have a natural popoulation increase that doubles every thirity years or so, and one day they will run out of
oil.
Alas, what became of my academy proposal! I deemed it a very good way to help people in other continents, believing that the Labour solution of inviting two billion Asians and Africans over to Britain over the next fifty years as
being the solution of lazy-minded people who do not take government seriously! - Paul Watkins, yes, Belgium is about to split up into three entities: Flanders, which
will probably unite with the Netherlands, Valonia, which will probably unite with France, and a small area where the people speak German, which will probably unite with Germany! - how can they do that?
seems impossible to me, would the other countries involved want to absorb part of belgium? - Howard, it's to do with language
and ethnic and cultural identity. The Flemish speak almost the same language as in the Netherlands, the Valoons speak French. What divided Flanders from the Netherlands in the past was the difference between catholic and protestant
beliefs, and many people from Flanders during the years of strife several centuries ago actually moved to Holland, being protestants. They founded Rotterdam, if I am not mistaken. (A bit like the Pilgrim fathers being English but living
in Holland).
The Valoons were divided from France because the Spanish crown once inherited that area from the Habsburgs. - Howard they become 3 EU regions. Flanders,
Wallonia & Brussels - thanks for that gentlemen, also paul and alexander.
i realised that they were a split country but not to the extent of actually splitting
up.
i remember years ago, king leopold was described as king of all the belgians, not king of belgium. - Perhaps now you can all see why UKIP`s Nigel Farage
described
Belgium as "pretty much a non-country" .
I don`t think he was too far off the mark to be honest. - Its beginning to look like the
game is up for Labour. According to the latest rumblings from the BBC, talks between the Libdems and Labour have gone nowhere. Labour could not agree to all the Libdem demands, it seems. So the Libdems are now back in very serious next
level talks with the Conservatives...so anytime now you may see the Browns vacating Downing St. Its beginning to look that way. Its beginning to take shape.
Must be bewildering for our new just elected MP Charlie Elphicke who
hasnt known so far whether he would be on the government side of the benches or propping up Her Majesty's opposition. - Well we are nearly there, as an active and
strong conservative, Clegg is running out of time.
I don't want Clegg and his losers part of the Govt
I want to see DC go alone
otherwise it will all end in tears - alexander old chap,flanders is a part of france,it stretches from gravelines/st omer to ostend.so any thought of it joining holland has no chance,it would be isolated.the common chat is
flemish but french/german and english are spoken to. - i cannot see how david and his friends can go it alone, they will be voted down in the commons.
they need the
yellows in order to govern. - excellent summing up from the forum fuhrer there.
- Well mark my
words, look at the Lib Dems the executive still split,
give it 2 years and we will be facing another election.
But do we(conservatives)want to be dragged down, losing seats because of not going alone.
It will be
unstable, I just hope that Labour doesn't benefit from todays decisions. - stephen
you seem to have become a regular poster, would it not be easier if you joined
the members club?
a simple e mail to paul on dover7@msn.com and you can join and post wherever you like on here. - I should imagine David Cameron and Nick
Clegg are at this moment sitting in the A&E department of there local hospitals. Both will be suffering severe bloating of the stomach, due to the remarks and abuses they have slung at each other over the past few weeks having been
swallowed rather hastily. Probability is that they will both end up with a severe dose of the craps!! (lets hope) - Good God! For a moment there I thought it was
real. Cleggy appointed deputy Prime Minister. Phew, for one minute there........
I love it when you awake from a nightmare and reality kicks in. Time for a cuppa methinks.
Oh hang on. Hang on just a
minute - Well, at long last we have the Govt, not so sure how stable that will be.
Let's hope the lefty Libs will honour this gathering.
Now David, get on with
the Job desperatly needed to be done - First coalition government since the second world war. True, but then there was a planned economy and capitalism took a back seat.
I dont think that will happen this time, so dont expect miracles. - Super pix there showing the joy of the incoming Camerons and the sadness of the outgoing
Browns. Nice that Gordon and Sarah took their lovely little boys with them to see the Queen. Here's to a new era in more ways than one, will be very interesting to see how the Con/ Lib partnership pans out over the coming
weeks. - Lets see what they can do for us? lets not hold our breath just yet
- i note as this
was my second ever posting on this site that it goes to somewhere for approval, didn't know we was in a communist state? is freedom of speech not allowed on the Dover Forum !! - Brian, there is an area in north west France where Flemish topographic names are evident, including Dunquirque (Dunkirk), but the vaster part of Flanders is in Belgium, also an area called Brabante, again where Flemish is
spoken. Oostende is in Belgium, though, as is Zeebrugge. The Flemish speaking Belgians in Belgium do not live in France. Antwerp is another Flemish Belgian sea-port, right near the Netherlands. Holland is actually an area of the
Netherlands, as are Zeeland, Limburg and others. Hence the official name of the country is Netherlands, even though we tend to say: Holland. The Flemish speaking Belgians officially speak Nederlandse, or Netherlands, which in English we
translate as Flemish. Nowadays the controversy between protestanism and catholicism is not existant, so the prospects for Belgians choosing their proper national identity by uniting with Netherlands (the Flemish speaking), France (the
French speaking Waloons) and to a much smaller extant Germany (German speaking near the Eifel), are certainly possible, however, the Belgians themselves can decide that. Here in Britain we need to make sure that no-one in Brussels starts
ramming clefts between our constituent countries of Britain, so if Belgium breaks up, we can be sure that in the Brussels e.u. parliament their hair might have become greener than they liked, and it might distract them from thumbsing
around over a map of Britain! - Tracey if you take a minute to think further I'm sure you could imagine what sort of stuff would end up on here if we didnt have a slight
delay for non members. - I wonder what the neighbours in No9,and 12 Downing street make of all this hallibaloo?? What with the press, cameras flashing, helicopters
overhead, I think I would be inclined to call the police,or at least the local co-ordinator of neighberhood watch and get them on the case!!
Does David Cameron like cats?? if not what future for the No10 moggy that lives
there?? - i thought that the cat got rehomed because mrs blair did not like animals in the house or anywhere near her.
- Paul B i can appreciate what your are saying it just doesn't fill a new person to the site with optimism about the site? But from a legal point of view at your end i quite
understand Paul. - Oh dear. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. Chris Huhne has been put in charge of the ministry for no energy in ten years time and climate change hysteria. Well it
seems all that huskie hugging and bike riding by the boy David didn't do quite enough to stop climate change and more stringent measures are about to be imposed by the boy and who worse than Chris Huhne to carry out these measures.
Expect a media blitz on the perils of rising polar bears and dying seas. Then expect your energy bills to soar over the next few years. Expect draconian laws regarding waste and more legislation which will cripple what is left of our
manufacturing industry.
Oh yes, the new coalition - a great day for democracy, not. - got it in one tracey about the legal side.
not long ago i spent most of a sunday
evening deleting endless posts that would have got us into big trouble.
that is why there is a time delay for non members.
you can always e mail paul on dover7@msn.com and apply for
membership. - Not to sure whose meant here, however I personally recognise the Parliament as elected by the people and the gov. it forms, hence I use Democracy to
express views.
- i was referring to a non member alexander, none of our members would have posted such
stuff. - Giovanni Dellorto, Outer Mongolia:
Are you for real?????????????? - the forum
is known worldwide jimmy. - VAT likely to rise
A good price to pay to get us out of this Labour mess - Yes Stephen Im afraid you could be right. But in my view its worse than an NI rise, and is just as much a tax on jobs as that one was claimed to be. Everything goes up right across the board hitting absolutely everyone of every
level of income, thereby producing less demand for everything, at least in the short term. So with less demand, people will surely be laid off.
VAT you will notice never comes back down again when things get better. It scorched up
and up over the years and now a 20% tax hike on everything seems inordinately high. - Fifty Day Emergency Budget.
The forthcoming Emergency Budget in Fifty
Days will produce huge Public Spending cuts and must demand the requirement of a Unitary Council of East Kent.The merging of our four District Councils. - Reg
Hope you are well (by the way, met Paul Sheldrake last week he's going to contact you)
On unitary councils, you are aware we disagree.
As I'v stated many times doing away with councils is not the answer and only takes
decision making even further away from the local person.
I spent a lot of time in South Wales where a unitary is now in place, it hasn't worked and the town i visited has lost its local voice and decisions are now made miles and
miles away.
I need more convincing that unitary will help with LOCAL democracy and not make it worse - The trees look totally beautiful, it puts a spring in my
step. - What a lovely pink haven.
- What I also like about the beautiful trees in blossom, is that they are...a
natural colour! - Thanks guys re the picture. Its a nice one isnt it, right now Pencester is a mixture of very green after all the rain and very colourful with these fab
trees, or it was last week anyway. Not sure if they are still in bloom. Happy to use it and to show Sue N that I sometimes get out there and away from the computer.
But back to Reg and Keef (Keith)...both are right though it seems
to me, but for different reasons. Keef is right in that any further expansion ( ie a Unitary Council) disenfranchises the voter and leaves him/her further away from the decision process, as it would too if we have fewer MP's which is
being suggested, but what Keef fails to address in his argument there, is cost. A Unitary Council saves money...which Im sure is Reg's point. And as we all know, as its drummed in our accumulative ears by every politician under the
sun...we're broke!! - Such a nice relief from the hurly burly of Politics although not for long I fear, to see the above picture of the lovely May Blossom tree's
giving us a sense that maybe spring has'nt quite forgotten us. - Paulb
Okay Reg and I have discussed thjs many times, so let me give you a few of my
thoughts;
Before I do could I add that whenever unitaries ccame up before all the political parties just looked at it on how they wouldcontrol councils after unitaries came and not in the best interest of the local people, thus it
never happened!!!
So instead what could we start by doing?
At the moment as REG says we have 3 councils, we don't need 3 so why don't we look at dismantling some.
As much as the town council has not made itself
look good at times in the public eye, I still am a great believer in making decisions at the lowest level possible, when I once voiced this to a senior labour cllr that decisions could even be made by communities themselves poo
pood
And then why not dismantle the county council and give all this work to the Districts. will take some organising but could be done saving billions.
there hows that for a
start - Interesting stuff there Keef. Yes indeed.. re making decisions at grass roots level, that notion is all the rage and was heavily spouted by the Tories during the
Election campaign. I know this might come as a shock me oul chum but you are in harmony there with Conservative thinking!!lol!
Getting rid of KCC will never happen as they are so entrenched running the affairs of the county that
it would probably be out of the question. I will leave others to debate as to which of the other councils might need revamping or abolishing.
Good to have you back on Keef, having you zipped and silenced during the election was
not something any of us were used to ! - I am all for geting rid of the DDC planning dept,they have done nothing for Dover and have done more damage then the war
done to our town. - Paulb
This thing about KCC will never go, why not???? if it's in the interest of local people, people power works.
I'm not in line with
Conservatives, maybe they are coming in line with me.
That said, they hardly believe in local decision makin as they starved local govt of finance when last in power, so don't hold your breath there!!
So if we beieve in
true democracy, theres a start, dismantle KCC give powers to DDC/DTC of course those two will have to act more responsibly too.
big move, but a good start.
and let communities run there own areas,
blimey getting far to
radical
thats just a start
will we even get that far? - At the risk of falling out with my DTC friends but someone has to ask this!!?... Is there enough talent at
DTC level to let them loose running heavy grade Kent County Council level affairs?? - PaulB.
In my opinion when we have an East Kent Unitary Council it will not
only be the end of DDC but the beginning of the end of KCC.
In a Unitary Council our Dover District representatives,no matter which party,will work together for the good of Dover District.
Town and Parish Councils will have more
say and influence with our representatives.to promote Dover District.
Keith.
Democracy will live on. - I can't understand why abolish the County of Kent,
which is what these suggestions would lead to! I am all for maintaining County identity, and for not abolishing any Council: County, District or Town. Also, a theme I have brought up in the past on this issue has never been answered: 1.
Should the people working in a Council just be sacked, and 2. don't people realise that when workers are sacked or otherwise laid off, in whatever terminology applied (redundancy etc.) that the State then has to pay benefits to these
people, which, after redundancy payment, amounts to 500 pounds a month, assuming that the unemployed person will lose their mortgage and require housing benefit for a room, as well as unemployment benefit.
And that these people on
benefits don't do much shopping, leading to a further decrease in demand on the local retail and manufacturing market, which in turn causes less tax to enter the Treasury. And that they don't pay income tax any more.
When you take
off all that the Treasury loses, and count what it "saves", there is practically no difference.
A difference would be seen if city bankers had massive pay reductions, but the common council
worker...hm! - REG
As your aware a unitary council would make decisions a long long way from Dover the last thing we want.
Im all for KCC going and then i
think all parties need gto llook close at who they put forward.
With work comes accountability and i'm sure the Town council does good work.
What it needs to do is change its image.
I won't go over the old arguments on
the famous 4 who chose to go indy after being elected as labour candidates, but i admire those remaining labour town cllrs who stuck by agreed democratic decisions.
On the issue of democracy, reg if you believed in local decisions
then unitaries is the worst option.
yes financially its a good thing, but decision making will be worse,
I would as i stated in my last post local communites(those able to do so) to run there own communities.
I still
believe we will debating this in 10 years time. - My personal opinion :responding to PaulB's taunt! The only difference between a Town Councillor and a District or County
Councillor is the amount of Officer support available. If the Town has to take on more tasks then it will be up to the Councillors to find the resources. That in effect is whats happening. When DTC take on toilets and Visitor
information then we will have to get the expertise one way or another.
I am afraid the Keith has to keep referring to his view of democracy - warped as it is , but ask you Keith to check what the Councillors he supports have done
this year to assist. But I will not debate this any more. I do agree that a change in Image for the town is necessary and hope that this next year will see us all working together for the challenges that we will get no mattter
what.
What is my view is that we should stop talking about Parties and start talking about Dover first. Now that the government is cooperating lets have less confrontational debates and more aimed at compromise and getting
something done.
I am confident that the coalition will survive if all parties start getting grown up and respect each others opinions. Then its only down to the press to stop trying to create a story and let them get on with
it.
... nice and sunny out isnt it!
D - David H
You do make me smile(not many do that!!)
you dont accept democracy all the time
the INDYS PARTY is in opposition(and i do predict this won't change) so you heard it here first!!!!
and you want grown up debate, thats fine, what you are really saying is you want the Labour majority to agree to all your
MINORITY party says, sadly thats how it is, and I FIRMLY BELIEVE even the town cllrs are all there in the interest of a better Dover.
You have your vision David, and im sure others have theres.
One thing i will agree upon
is the need to for the Town Council to re invent itself, look to how it can be seen in a positive light.
Officer support should be provided for the Town Council, but first the Town Council needs to show its ready for the
action
I feel rather sad that David h has resulted in personal jibes rather than constructive debate(my warped views?)
- Thanks Paul for the write up on DCR!
Looks great. - Getting rid of KCC for East Kent Unitary council AND presumably West Kent Unitary Council? Well, let's not stop there and
have a North Kent UC and South Knt UC (they should be entitled to one as well). Hmm, 2 or 4 councils instead of one makes me think there must be more money than sense in that thinking.
Perhaps addressing the massive overspend by
KCC through its councillors, Keith being an ex-KCC councillor will know all about that, would be a good place to start. How about allowing only ONE spokesperson per party for starters as that would save about £18k per annum for each one
removed. Then remove the councillor spending pot of £10k per annum. That would make another big saving.
There must be loads more, so how about some clues Keith?
Finally, halve the contingency pot of £50m and put the £25m
into sorting our devastated roads out.
- i think the cove next to terry in the pic is his cousin rick.
i could be wrong
though. - Nope that's Andy Broughton who I used to present Friday nights with. And the GHBS served both Buckland Hospital and the Victoria Hospital in Deal.
- SID
I understand where your coming from, but feel a better way would be to get decision making more local.
We both agree on the wastage via KCC but the overall
saving would be big.
so lets not tinker - Terry
Remember that I was let loose with you
we did have a larf - Yes of course I do Keith, I remember those days fondly and the time you done your made up horoscopes section on air!!
Well if you're free and want to come down the DCR meeting next month you're most welcome, be nice
to see you. - was busy last meeting but would love to play a part in the future
how are you terry?
keith - Good luck to you all with your venture remember well the above picture and being there that evening.
- I think Kent was more prosperous in the days of the
Wielden Hundreds economy, when every Kentish family had a house and a garden. - Have just moved from the frontpage the feature about the guys who are planning the
Community Radio Project. You can now see this feature in ALL RECENT FEATURES. But if the guys involved are looking for funding... and projects like this radio idea always need funding, it might be an idea to read and make notes of the
feature now showing above on the local funding that's available. This information above is hot off the press, its just come through in other words.
Could certainly help get the project off the
ground. - Efficiency Savings in East Kent.
Public Spending Cuts are only days away.
Efficiency Savings available in East Kent are vast. Each
of our four District Councils have substantial Management Teams.
We do not need Four Management teams to run East Kent. Efficiency savings on this one item alone could save a potential £10 to £15 or more millions of Pounds.
This is just one aspect of Efficiency/Economies of Scale savings that can be achieved with a Unitary Council of East Kent.
Why not reduce the effect of the savage Public Spending Cuts about to be felt soon and in the future
by merging all four Councils? - REG
You still keep on about a unitary, yet havnt yet explained how it wont be undemocratic, and decisions no longer taken
localy
as i say iv watched a District council in wales swallowed up by a unitary being formed and decisions now made miles away
so convince me PLEASE - good to know
there is still free money for community use. - yes paul i seen it as well,a very nice looking sail ship.
- Perhaps a budget saving would be not to spend out on a Mayor Making ceremony for someone who is already mayor ?
- Nice
pictures but where is our Mayor? - My wife and I will be there on Friday night and I must say I like the mayor making night at our great Town Hall
- Aelia see last paragraph above..pictures of Mayor and new Deputy Mayor will be on here on friday all being well, or more probably saturday. Yes saturday as its only happening
friday. The feature above is a reflection on the guys everywhere that are outgoing... as a sort of warm up event for the big night.
Will there be any controversy on the night itself? there was last year as many will remember. But
this year should see a smooth transition or is that famous last words.
There have been a number of other local political changes too but more on that soon. - Not being sure too about all this merry mayor making but who pays for all the crones to eat, drink and be merry, is it the poor old council tax payer?
- Yes Alan
but you get our services for free! and that is worth a lot!
Its an opportunity for the community workers of many kinds to be involved and recognised.
- I wonder what our brand new MP makes of our brand new government's inability to deal with its first real challenge on the terrorist front??
Listening to the news
tonight, we hear of the case of two convicted terrorists who cannot be deported in case they "alledgedly" would be tortured if returned to there place of birth. Despite the fact they have been convicted in a british court
of crimes
against the state and the people.
This from a government that has been in power, no more than a fortnight. A government that poured scorn on the previous governments efforts to curtail our "Guests" in ther unusual
"hobby"
II.E.trying to blow innocent people to smithereens,
What exactly can we as a nation expect with regards protection from the new home secretary Theresa May?? or is it going to be a continuing case of "Dont blame me, it is
european law" Are we to assume that despite all big Dave's pronouncements that all current british governments legislation will have to play second fiddle to the laws of europe??.
Will Your cherubic faced Charlie Elphick like to
reply to my points I wonder??Some how I dont think so. I shall not hang around waiting for a reply, and we have 4 years and 50 weeks to go!! - not been convicted
jimmy.
doubtless you will be proved right though, the blues will be no better thn the reds on the subject of terrorism.
it is us plebs which do the suffering. - Howard Mcsweeny,
Lets not split hairs on the question of whether these "Citizens" have been convicted or not. We all know there intent. the worrying factor is that David Cameron has been leader of his party since 2005.
Are we to believe that he has not been aware of this threat and if so why not?? if he has, why is there no sign of strong leadership?? why no policy formulated to deal with just such an emergancy?? why are we expected to pay for the
protection of these people who quite obviously hate us and all we stand for.
What price tolerance, I ask and where is it going to get us in the end?? - Does it
matter that they might be tortured or killed back in Pakistan ? That's not our worry, they were going to kill as many British people as they could.
Just because the evidence was so sensitive it could not be given in open court is
an irrelevance - love to know what that evidence was though.
If the law comes from Europe, then that too should be irrelevant; it's our laws that matter and our protection
too.
Roger - The problem is though that we have an overlegislated society here. Its almost beyond politicians to do anything about it. There are a zillion
laws tieing us in every kind of legal knot imagineable. We are hamstrung. You need look no further than the BA strike dispute to illustrate this..
I dont think any one of us joe public want a BA strike right smack dab in the
middle of the holiday season, but have you noted how the staff in question have been denied their right to strike by slick lawyers driving the proverbial coach and horses through the most minuscule of loopholes to prevent them doing so.
That in itself is a farce...11 spoiled ballot papers is the reason this time, when clearly it has no impact on the views of the majority who want strike action. Its preventing them exercising their legal rights.
As I say I myself
like all joe public dont want a strike, but you can clearly see how slick lawyers with skill can prevent almost anything happening. Like so, the terror case. We are crying out for a simplification of the legal
system. - I don't want to pour oil on fire, but , talking of the subject brought up here, it would be worth noting that in Afgnainstan, a Taliban prisoner
physically caught by British soldiers planting a bomb near their base was handed over to the Afghan police who "the British soldiers are training" (drivel!) and shortly after quietly released by the Afghan police. It was found out by
chance, as the man in question was wanted as witness in a British army court because two of the soldiers who caught him were tried and dismissed, because they had thought he was about to escape after being arrested and intervened to stop
him, not realising that two of their comrades were actually on guard but in the other side of the tent. It was an instinctive reaction, the concerned suffered a minor scratch. Anyway, the two "criminals" were sacked from the British
Army, the "poor bloke" handed over to the Afghan police and then sent off to plant more bombs. If the British military court had not sought his "testimony", we would never have found out that he was back to planting bombs outside
British Army bases in Helmandland! The fact is, how many of them are released by the Afhan Police after being handed over to them by British and other allied forces fighting there?
The three mainstream parties tell us that our
soldiers must remain there for years, I say they should leave today and come back home! - getting back to the release of the terror suspect, i bet the new home secretary
is shocked to realise how little power she has.
the judiciary make decisions that astonish many of us, they are basically unaccountable. - Howard
Mcsweeney,
Dear Howard I think you and I should give more thought about our utterances as there is a dangerous precedent being set here.
If we are not careful there is the extreme possibility that we find ourselves in agreement,
that would never do, not now that I have finally learnt to spell your name without scrolling down to your last posting LOL
- Blimey i thought it was halloween
for a second then lol. Gd luck Gordon. - no surprise to see gordon get the top job at last.
all the best to
him. - Thought you would like the full list of the Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet of the District Council.
Chairman Bernard Butcher. Vice Chairman Sue
Nicholas
Cabinet. Shadow Cabinet.
Leader Paul Watkins Gordon Cowan
Dep Leader Fred Scales
Mike Eddy
Access and Property Nigel Collor John Goodwin
Economy and Sp projects Fred Scales Ben Bano
Enviroment waste and planning Nick Kenton
Mick Smith
Community Youth and Housing Sue Chandler Ann Smith
ICT HR and Consumer affairs Trevor Bartlett Jan Tranter
Corporate resourses andPerf Ian Ward Mike Eddy
Skills Training and
Ex relations Kit Smith Linda Keen
Health Well Being and Public protection Pat Heath Jim Hood - thanks for providing us
with that list john.
see that your shadowing nigel. - He could out shadow me several times,I will keep him on his toes,by the time I am finished with him he
will be as fit as a Butchers Dog. - Yes indeed many thanks JHG for the full listings of cabinet/shadow cabinet there.
While the main Election was running and with all that
mssive publicity for the three main guys thanks to the debates and so forth, everyone has forgotten that Labour did very well in local council elections across the country. These elections were held at the same time as the national
election. Its kind of bizarre, at the top level everything turning blue, but at local level the swing went the other way. I swear the nation has gone barmy. I cant explain that one. To be honest I hardly noticed myself either being
caught up in the Cameron Clegg Brown mad media frenzy.
But now with a new revamp in local Labour ranks and with Gordon a better known local Dovorian figure, than his amiable predecessor, could Labour spring a surprise here. Is
Paul Watkins concerned about this trend? - PAULB
Of course the Tories and Paulw will be worried that on general election day Labour gained so many local
councils, completely bucking the trend.
I'v never understood voting diffrently for a political party nationally and locally, but looking at ballot papers when i stood(all those many moons ago lol)
i had a combination of people
voting for me including
3 SEATS People voting
LABOUR LABOUR LABOUR
LABOUR TORY LABOUR
TORY TORY LABOUR
TORY TORY TORY
but there you have it, thats democracy and the freedom to do
so - i'm one of those voters, in council elections i vote for the best people.
- Paul, I have never taken
the electorate for granted. - are theres a picture to behold the grusome twosome.lol
- Blimey had forgotten
paulb was lurking with his camera that night!! - Barry, something puzzles me about your opinion that the Conservatives are " Eurosceptic ". I find this quite amusing, as
surely the first thing that anybody would want as a true "Eurosceptic" would be a full and fair democratic Referendum on whether or not we should pull out of the EU.
I think what you`re really saying, in so many words, is that
the Blues are "part-time" eurosceptics.
Furthermore, prior to the election, if Cameron, the eurosceptic, had given UKIP the promise of an "in or out" referendum at some stage during his term of office, then NO UKIP
candidates would have stood at the General Election and he would have been home and dry as a Prime Minister with a decent majority.
As I`ve said before, don`t blame UKIP for the mess you find yourself in, blame the Tory
leadership. - Apologies for posting these comments in the wrong "section"
They should have gone to "Barrys" Blog!
I`ve just started my 100
lines " I must do better " !! - MESSAGE FOR PAULB
nEXT TIME YOU PUT THEM SCARY FRONT PAGE PICS UP
COULD YOU BLACKEN MY HAIR A BIT
LOL - keith
there is no escape route or hiding place from the camera of paulb. - No, thats correct
howard
could have taken picture of my better side lol - lol! guys I had to move that feature into All Recent Features as reports have reached me that the picture was
frightening too many local horses, and we cant condone cruelty to animals on such a wide scale...!!
Ah ..just kidding. Very likeable picture..yes really! Just making way for Mayor
Making. - excellent pics there colette/paul.
- OMG, not the most flattering photo I've ever
seen!! - Sunday Times 23rd May 2010.
Town Hall to bear 600,000 cuts.Its time for an East Kent Unitary Council.Every way out of the problem is going to be painfull. - Thanks Howard as ever we were out there getting the relevent pix so hopefully all good..ah yes apologies Kathy on that one, the gossip factor took precendence over the
aesthetics!lol...will make it up to you next time. - You didn't even recognise me Kathy, I am mortified!
- Yes another year on as you can see by the excellent spread of pictures above, I have to say I have enjoyed my time last year and in the past it has always been a pleasure to represent
Dover and my community.
And I will continue to do so within the Town Council. - A splendid evening was had at Mayor Making on Friday night. Glad to hear you all like
the spread of photos. Congratulations to our Mayor Sue Jones on her second year in office and to our top Forumite Cllr David Hannent, our new Deputy Mayor.
We had a great time in the White Horse afterwards, thanks for the
interesting tour Jeanette, loved it. x - REG
I still wait patiently for the reply to earlier postings on my thoughts on the faults of a unitary council
which to date you have avoided to answer. - Hi Terry
I did see you in the hall but was in a hurry to get my words done and get home before dark because my headlight is
broken. So apologies for not saying hello but I did recognise you!! (Get tunnel focued when I'm after something specific for work) :-) - tunnel focused even!
- Fret not Kathy, I didn't even spot Madame Chairman (Jeanette) at first!
- ah yes paulb,one of the females taking
part was interviewed on hearts breakfast show this morning.they are hopeing to raise £3000 for some autisic charity.the boat has an all female crew with a male cox the two are all male affair.they are hoping to cross in 5 hours or
less,they will be beaching the boats and returning on a p/o ferry.good luck to all involved. - excellent shot of the flotilla there, i hope they had plenty of sunscreen on for
the row. - We have been trying to phone DDC offices all morning.The number is unobtainable.Has the Coalition Government cuts worked that fast??
- Great photos for a great evening!
You're welcome Colette! All I remembered the next day was you and Jan doing a funny jig in my bathroom and I wondered what
that was all about....a tour would explain it!!
Last time Terry forgot my name.....this time he didn't even recognise me! He assures me this is just an age thing!!!
- Reg, yes, it would seem that your proposals to do away with many Councils have sunk in, and it seems that 300.000 jobs must be axed, and no more new recruits accepted either in many
spheres of office. Ah well!
Also, it shouldn't be surprising now that if you phone a Council no-one will reply! I supose many young people leaving school who expected a job in the public sector will get one in the unemployment-
centre! They'll be enough unemployed people signing on! - reg bangs on about unitary authorities and the savings to be made, quite rightly, however he does not explain
why a labour stalwart is in favour of so many job losses. - Cannot understand how he thinks that 600,000 people made redundant can be a good thing for the country...
wonder how that would affect tax income and benefit outputs ??? - REG is no longer a LABOUR person(in name)
stood as an indy in local
elections - did not know that keith.
yet another multi coloured person. - PW, that is exactly what I've
also been trying to point out, that at least a quarter, possibly a third, of what gov. "saves" on paying out less salaries in the public sector, must then be paid out on benefits, assuming that the unemployed will apply for
unemployment benefit and at some point for housing benefit, once they have stopped paying rent or the mortgage. Also, all these people won't be paying income tax any more, and will all do a lot less shopping, meaning that the factories
(those which are still left in Britain) and the retail shops will all have a lower income, and subsequently pay less tax, and possibly employ less workers... - HOWARD
Yes, he left labour, and ran as an indy in last local elections (kcc)
AS AN INDY nothing to do with indy alliance party.
but an indy on
his own. - Alexander. All money spent by the Government is recycled money, taken from taxes or borrowed. The government does not produce wealth.
The government is broke and must reduce costs, it cannot keep spending so it must reduce the public payroll. There is not other way and there will be reduced costs despite any 'loss' of tax incoem and benefit
payments.
A recruitment freeze is the best way but I have no doubt that there will also be redundancies.
These people, many well qualified, will largely get jobs quite quickly in the private sector, many will even start
their own businesses. They will turn from wealth consumers to wealth creators.
The speed at which they get new jobs will be determined by growth in the economy - specifically in the private sector - so generating growth must be a
big priority for the government. Reducing company taxation, reducing red tape being just two ways that this can be done.
By the way, public spending being directed at the private sector is not necessarily wealth creating unless
it is in areas from which businesses can benefit usually indirectly (communications and roads being the best examples). Only non-government spending business actrivity is wealth creating. As I say all the rest is just re-
cycled.
There is no other choice in the real world, cuts must be made. - It is always interesting for me personally to see how the newspapers cover the events we
have already covered here on Doverforum.com. We oft times ourselves do it on a wing and a prayer as the need for speed often takes precedence over all other things.
Today I was disappointed in the coverage of the inauguration of
our very own Mayor by YOUR DOVER newspaper(out today). It purports to be all things Dover, yet in the copy they call the new Deputy Mayor ...David Hammond... and the picture shown of the new Mayor Sue Jones was not..NOT ..taken on the
night but is an old one. dear oh dear! I mean heavens I make some clangers myself but at least I have 'speed' and 'being live' as an excuse in my case.
Anyone knows that our new Deputy Mayor is Kathryn Hamnett...so lets get it
right !
Disappointing coverage with just the one 'old' picture. - barryw,redundancies cost more than keeping a person on at areduced rate of pay.a well
known goverment fact. - Exactly what I thought Paul, it also mentioned an organist, sounded like a piano to me.
- .............and my lips are sealed regarding where the Mayor's microphone was!
- Isn't Hammond a company that runs lorries?
- Good afternoon Dover,
BTW
I hope you all are enjoying patting each other on the back to commemorate the
townsfolks part in Operation Dynamo.
Well done and thank you. - Barry, I read your comment. Although it is not clear what you exactly mean with recycled
money, however, I thought you might like to enlargen your sphere, and know that for 2010 Poland will receive the equivalent of 15 billion dollars (in euros and pounds) in non-return eu funds to play about with in the Polish economy. Is
this also 'recycled money'?
Also, unemployment in Poland has sharply risen this year to 12,8 percent of the work force.
I belive it is cynicle of Gordon Brown to state that any British person can go to Poland and get a job, or,
as he put it: 'go to Europe and live there'! Really cynicle! Could anyone see British unemployed people going to Poland and getting a job???
The contempt that the last government leaders showed towards the British People is
shocking.
I do hope you know where the present gov. is heading, Barry, and that you will not lose complete controll of the economic oversight in Britain and Europe.
Try going on sites on the Internet that give figures and details
on what Britain and western European countries are flogging out to finance eastern European countries. I did not write how much will go to the others, which has to be added to the 15 billion dollars (in euros and pounds) going to
Poland. - Is that 500,000 viewers or viewings? Congratulations which ever it is.
- Thanks Puzzled. But just to
highlight again that everyone who contributes does their bit to keep Doverforum what it is..we must emphasise that. Worth noting that we havent as yet been swallowed up by the giant at our shoulder Facebook...lol! Yes its probably more
accurate to say view -ings.
Thanks especially too to the specific teamsters
Chris Tutthill - Tech
Howard Mcsweeney - Forum Edit
Colette Boland - Edit
Barry Wadsworth-Smith -
Adv - Well done the team
- Well done to all at the Dover Forum HQ ,we have in DOVER the best
forum you could have any where. vic M - Well done the DoverForum team, and thanks for providing such a worthwhile website for us all to enjoy. Keep up the good
work. - The Queen`s Speech stated the policy of the Coalition Government is to take away Education from local authorities.
The KCC Education
Budget this year is £982 Million Pounds.
The total KCC Budget this year is £2,400 Million Pounds.
This represents 41% of the total Budget of KCC.
Do we need/can we afford the enormous administation costs of KCC when a Major
Portion of their finances will be removed??
The correlation with DDC is the same.
Do we need/can we afford the Enormous Administration costs of DDC when they are divesting themselves of our services by merging our front line
services with other East Kent District Councils??
We do not apologise to suggest yet again that an East Kent Unitary Council will/can deal with all these matters at a much more acceptable cost to the residents of Dover
District.
The need for DDC would be removed and the need for KCC would also eventually be removed.
We wonder what Paul Carter Leader of KCC now thinks of Mr.Gove`s ideas?? - REG
With regard to unitary authorities can you exp0lain to me how it will become more democratic to take decisions away from
Dover? - Congratulations to the DoverForum team on providing an important local resource for issues and topical debate about the town.
- Many thanks guys for the
positive comments, very good to hear and the team appreciate them I know ..and now we are straight back in the fray with the latest release from the local Labour Group , now showing in the editorial above, who clearly see the appointment
of Sue Nicholas as totally cynical. is that how others see it? - Congratulations PaulB an the team there - onwards and upwards as they say.
Sue Nicholas may
well have been outspoken and not shy about saying what she felt was wrong - about anything.
I personally think she was right and may well have ruffled a few feathers, but that's how it should be - she has more balls than many of
the Councillors there - on both sides.
I thought it was unncessary and churlish of the Labour group to actually issue a press-release saying she only got Deputy/Vice Chairman to shut her up.
Why not congratulate her on her
appointment and leave it at that -Sue was/is well deserving of her new role. Well done Sue.
Roger - Thanks Roger.
Whats happening here though is
this..there is a new 'management ' in place for Labour locally, and they are very aware, I would think, that despite Labour losing out overall in the General Election across the UK, at local government level elections held across some
of the UK at the same time...Labour swept into power. This fact has been widely overlooked in the hubbub surrounding the General Election.
This surprising fact though has given impetus and drive to Labour Groups at local level
everywhere. They are far from dead in the water as some would have us believe. - Keep politics out of local government. The council should be there to serve the
town, not score party political points off each other. End of. - Roger, there are, and always will be, small minded bigots, and this churlish and cowardly press message was
always to be expected from the source it came from. Gutless local politicos who enjoy nothing more than point scoring.
As you rightly say, Sue has more balls than both the gents mentioned in the article. - Keith.
We have had this disscussion/debate for over a decade.
A Unitary Council will not bring `more`democracy to Dover District.
Democracy
will be intact.Democracy cannot be made `more`democratic. - i tend to be of the opinion that when local politics takes precedent over doing something about the
parlous state of the town, there is very little hope for improvement. - Here here Howard, well said!
- i hasten to add that i am referring to all councillors that make these sort of
comments.
- I've written a blog post about the possibility of history repeating itself in Dover when it comes to regeneration plans. It can be found at
(rhysdgriffiths dot wordpress dot com). Sorry, had to write out like that to get around the no-website rule for posting comments.
Please feel free to take a look and a nose around the rest of my relatively new blog. - Thanks Guys for all the good comments below,the team here sure do appreciate the positive feedback and a Big Thanks to all you Forumites for your great
contributions.xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - that is my thought colette.
people like keith and roger have been the longest continuous posters in my memory,
sid was one of the originals then went native in west africa but is now assimilating back into western culture.
over the last year or so we have had the clements family, colin, martin and many others making their
mark.
apologies to those not mentioned, my aged memory is terrible. - REG=
What a unitary does is make decisions LESS democratic
decisions made
somewhere what could be 200 miles away.
Im all for less councils/cllrs
but it needs plannin g properly and with that comes the decision making.
How local will they be?
By reducing number of c;llrs does this mean cllrs
will become even more remote?
Quite important replies required before these issues can be considered to my mind - If there was no problem with distant governance, then
wouldnt it be okay for the KCC to do it all. Unitary Councils anyway, as Keef says, would become further afield by their very nature, furtherly remote from local decision making...so in a kind of a way they would be like smaller versions
of KCC.
This Unitary idea, although it saves money in harsh times, seems to be at odds with this new Governments thinking which seemingly wants to get everything, every decision making process out there, to be done at as local a
level as possible. - I can understand what Reg means and I think Keith is right,but it will also make Cllrs full time,because there wards like KCC will be much
bigger,to go with that will be bigger Wages for Cllrs,it will then stop people like me being a Cllr,those who have full time jobs.So what you are doing will not give you a cross section of Cllrs.
Of course DDC and other Councils are
talking about Cluster Goverments and they may come,but you will see little or any savings,eg I know of one Council who put £50,000 in for redundancies and the first 2 staff that were made redundant cost £50,000+ and £100,000, sort of
blew the budget. - Unitary Council of East Kent.
Keith/PaulB/JHG
Thanks for your comments.
All that is required to answer all questions/doubts is for the necessary
Authorities to carry out an investigation/evaluation of the benefits or otherwise of a Unitary Council for East Kent.
I have asked for this at DDC Full council question time. The Leader of the Council refused my request. I wanted the
full council to answer. This was not permitted.
However to answer your questions.
Keith.
Decisions will not be made 200 miles away but approx 15 miles away. We are only talking of the East Kent area. A central point could be
Canterbury.15 miles away
Democracy remains intact.
Paul B.
KCC is 60 miles away. Less remote than an acceptable site in East Kent. i.e. Canterbury.15 miles away
Unitary Councils are smaller than KCC. That's the idea.
New
Government thinking?? Decision making 15miles not 60 miles away. QED.
JHG.
With all the cut backs to come we are going to have redundancies anyway. The budget is irrelevent.
It's the reality of the situation.
Let's evaluate
the option of a Unitary Council of East Kent. Then we can decide. - Reg, stop wasting people's time and money. Unitaries are not an option that is available.
BOTH LABOUR AND CONSERVATIVES STOPPED THE PROCESS.
Areas agreed by Labour are currently being repealed. - i didn't know that paul.
thanks for
info.
- REG
Paulw is correct both labour/tory/lib dem all scuppered any moves to a unitary so we would be looking at least 10 years before it came about
again.
Decision making in Dover or 15 miles away(which I think if a unitary were in place would be much further away than 15 miles)
I choose Local and Dover.
By all means campaign for a unitary, but not realy convinced
it's the best way forward if we truely believe in LOCAL community decision making.
I'm no fan of KCC
But because of what I witnessed in South Wales I need a lot more
convincing - my first reaction after looking through the stalls was disappointment, saw colin and said that to him.
after giving it some thought, the problem seemed to be
the straggly nature of it.
surely the market square area should have been filled up first.
having said that i did spend a few quid on cakes, moggy food and stuff that were extremely good value.
paul
that was cameron
with his dog, the mayor was there also, colin has some pics to post here of the dignitaries. - i was down there just after 9 this morning,my first reaction was the
same as howards but soon warmed to it.the butchers van is worth a visit as all meat is local,alkam valley to be precise.i recomend the prize winning sausages.bumped into cameron mcsween and mr cork while i was
there. - thanks for the tip brian, i did not look at the butchers van, it seemed very busy.
like to see all local produce on display,will try the sausages next
week. - Wandered down at about 10.30, not many about but that's Dover. I do hope it takes off, it's the sort of shot in the arm that this town needs. Met Sue,
Ronnie and minder Jim who was chatting to the local good guy Ash.
Also made friends with Cameron's GSD! - Keith
Aide-memoire:- A decade ago when leader of
Dover District Council I had meetings with leaders and senior Cllrs of Canterbury & Thanet to enquire if a Unitary Council of all four Districts was of interest. My first meetings confirmed they were interested. When they took the matter
to their respective groups the message being received was they were unable to get a majority agreement because Labour, Concervatives and Lib Dems were all concerned because they could not guarantee being the majority party in a Unitary
Council. Once again politics in Local Government prevented progress. Individual/personal interests outweighed their need to benifit their communities. Is that the democracy you talk of?
Your quote we must wait for 10 years!!!! Watch
this space. It's a different set of problems now.
This problem will not go away.
Your concern that decision making being miles away. Where is the problem? As I see it Canterbury is the centre of East Kent i.e. 15 miles
away.
Your wish for local decisions. Our own future Cllrs of Dover will be able to present our needs. Anyway whay decisions have you agreed with in the last 5 to 10 years from DDC ?? - paul and colin described the dog as an alsation, terry refers to it as a german shepherd dog.
what is the difference between the
breeds? - Nothing at all Howard, a WW! change of name that's all.
- REG
And as you say
the political groups would not go with it.
At the moment we still have political groups running the councils and I cant see that changing.
So we will always be faced with the issue to get over.
Its is years away if at all,
first the councils need to be convinced it is in there interest and convince them NOT to go down political roads.
Then the electorate themselves.
Then I understand the commission has to also be convinced as they were not
planning any more unitaries for 10 years.
so lots to do - keith
i think reg was making the point that the refusal was down to narrow self interest from local
politicos who were scared of seeing their empires crumble.
the good of the area did not enter their thoughts, it seems. - HOWARD
Yep, and I go along with that,
but very short sighted of them all.
Had past Labour leaders listerned to me and others on this and many other subjects maybe things would be diffrent.
To explain further
It is correct all 3 parties did try to put
forward proposals along political grounds to enable them to keep or gain control totally the wrong reasons.
So unless the political parties are no longer in place, or all 3 parties change the way they operate its a long way off
happening.
On another subject, I recall when labour were the majority party on DDC they put forward to have an elected cabinet as they had been in control some time they thought it would never change.
I warned them at thre
time it was a bad idea, don't believe 8 members should make decisions(sometimes only needs 1) on behalf of all the council.
Which in effect is what happens.
I warnded the labour then it was a bad idea, but sadly the group went
with it, and all thats history now, labour lost control the cabinet stayed and we saw with the toilets issue how 1 person can do so much damage with no re course to any one. - howard,you wont regret buying them they were gorgous,tasty and very filling.there where two veriatys farmhouse and pork and leak.a big thumbs up there.
- Howard
as a "big sister" to a GSD (german shep) I can confirm they are one and the same... just depends what you are used to callign them , but i do believe that Kennel Club calls them GSD ( had a quick glance at the paperwork for Big
Ears and I am correct) - thanks for info jenni, chris precious said the same.
- It
goes back to post WW1 Howard, The was a lot of anti German feeling and the breed had it's name changed to unofficially to Alsation. - Great picture of
the Spitfire Mk 1 passing over the RFA Largs Bay PaulB, a nice photographic epitaph for a good cause. - I thought the first Dover market went well. I had a stall (of sorts!
as didnt realise we had to supply table, covering e.t.c)I agree with Howardmcsweeneys comment that the stalls looked a bit straggly..I think it would look much better if they were all uniformed like at the Folkestone harbour craft
market. Dont suppose there is any money though! There were lots of people about..the live music was a nice gentle addition too.
Fingers crossed it goes from strength to strength and that it helps not hinders the retail
shops. - thanks for your post pandora, were the stall holders satisfied with their takings?
- as mentioned..i didnt have cover so had to pack up early when the rain came so didnt have chance to ask anyone but the couple next door with the flowers seemed very
happy! the flowers didnt ruin getting wet unlike my watch drops! - Interesting one there Pandora..actually from a person on the spot as it were, from someone who did take part
in the market, so very good to hear from you. There were people about but it would be interesting to know if the stallholders took good enough takings to encourage them to carry on. Will be interesting to see how it pans out and maybe
you can let us know from time to time how you think its going. - Yes, would be very interesting to hear how the stallholders do at the Market, I really hope it
takes off as a Market always stimulates activity in a town.
Fantabulous photos above of the Spitfire and Largs Bay!! - The market is good for Dover, anything
that can help the downward spiral Dover seems to be in is good with me. Its good to see a little life in the town centre that isn't just the unsightly TV !! keep up the good work store holders. Come on Dovorians spend spend spend at the
market!!! - that is a brilliant shot from elaine there.
- What a great picture....
- yep a true gem of a picture.
- WOW!!!!! What a Brilliant shot, Well Done
Elaine. - An Accident Waiting to Happen !!
And they intend to build our ``Hospital``there??
That surely is many accidents waiting to
Happen.
Will sense prevail ?? - Great picture there Elaine certianly in the right place at the right time to catch that one.
- Good to hear the encouraging msgs from people concerning the market in Dover. I will be there again this saturday and will let you know how we all got on..I have heard the
weather is going to be a tad better!!
Love the photo Elaine! - Reg, surely the most sensible place to build a hospital is where 'An Accident Is
Waiting To Happen'?? - In the name of many Spitfires, that's a shot!
- Fantastic pic of the castle and a
Spitfire. Superb. - Great shot Elaine - I hope I get a break on Sunday to see the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight display !
- Another superb picture of the spitfire, and how would we view all these goings on in Dover with no forum?
- Great
to see everyone liking the Spitfire picture. The real trick in making the most of these types of picture opportunities is to give the performing plane a background in relation to either the ground or to where its performing. Elaine
manages those plus points brilliantly in the picture above, rendering the picture specific to Dover.
This brings me nicely on to the fact that the Spitfire is performing again this coming weekend on Dover Seafront. See the
information above.
Ive put all the details up now above about the Rolls Royce Celebrations this coming weelend, and the Western Heights Celebrations this coming weekend, so hopefully none of our readers will miss the info this
time around. We are always amazed at the amount of people who dont know whats going on.
Watch out for the FIREWORKS on saturday night..on at 10.15pm according to schedule, but get there a bit
earlier. - On Sunday 6th 1,30pm I will be at the Town Hall meeting and greeting people who were evacuated from Dover to Wales in 1940.
I will not be at the
event on the sea front .So many things going on so my duty will be at the Town Hall - Im not able to post often, but have to say, keep up the good work
Sue. - Plenty of time to get along to all evening at the weekend Sue :)
- That is a most glorious
picture, of the Spitfire sweeping before the castle. Well done indeed!
Best of luck to everyonefor the events this weekend. Yes, there's also, as Sue mentioned, the evacuee reunion. Organised by a former evacuee, with help from
other evacuees and friends, it starts at 10.45 with the service at St Mary's. Cannon Street, followed by coffee at the Parish Centre (as each Sunday), and then carries on from 1.30 till 5.00 at the Town Hall, with refreshments.
It was 70 years yesterday that nearly 3,000 Dover schoolchildren steamed out in four special trains from Dover Priory to South Wales, away from the feared-imminent invasion and all the other dangers in their home town.
- Paul ,
I shall be at the River Village Rose Show on Saturday running a Pink tombolla. - what on
earth is a pink tombola susan? - Fantastic Picture Elaine, you have really excelled yourself there.
- As you can see now added is a lovely sea picture by Colin Pritchard to compliment Elaine Mitchell's aerial shot extraordinaire. There is no doubt that Dover can look lovely at times. When the new seafront is completed, when
the building works and workers vanish, all will pick up considerably. All we need then are more jobs and greater prosperity. I know...it just rolls off the tongue. But we are suffering from a malignant economic poverty..but then who
knows, maybe the new Tory government and the new Tory MP Charlie Elphicke, who made his maiden speech in the House yesterday, will be able to do something to ratchet up local prosperity.
Ps: Will do a frontpage feature on
Charlie's maiden speech shortly with..wait for it...words and pictures ! oh the excitement ...! Have speech, have pictures. - How many countries never mind counties
can boast such beautiful historical backdrops that compliment our famous rich heritage.We are indeed a lucky lot. - Here here Paul B lets hope Charlie Elphick generates jobs and
gives Dover the boost it badly needs, Mr Prosser did his fair share but it seems treading water is the politics for this once so beautiful seaside town. Come on Charlie prove me wrong!!! Stunning pictures, well done to both of the camera
persons ! - I've been keeping out of gov's business for a bit wondering what will happen next, but, considdering the drift of the conversation here, I would note that Charlie
seems sincere in his intents, but is definitely not along the same line as the Tory party in Dover. DDC wants to sell the Port into privatisation, as the Dover Express repeatedly points out, and Charlie doesn't. More than that you
can't state in order to underline a contradiction. - 3 words head,wall,banging.
- Alex I think there might be
something in what you say there as I think we did draw attention before to the different tune local Tories and now Westminster Tory Charlie Elphicke were dancing to, on some issues. But Charlie according to his speech and we will have a
feature on that in a few days when we get the weekend celebrations out of the way, but yes Charlie is sticking to the promises that he was elected for..."no port selloff" and "we want a hospital".
He also mentioned the
George Cross for Dover but in lighter vein. Not sure why he mentioned the George Cross thing as it seems too far out of reach, or just a non-goer, and the campaign for it seems to have disappeared. The lads campaigning started off full
of gusto but its all gone quiet. - Well done, Charlie! Keep up the campaign for Dover's Port: no sell-off, no privatisation! If Dover wins, all Britain's Ports
can defend themselves from privatisation! If Dover falls, it will be the first of many British Ports to follow the same road and fall to private owners!
We must not give in to the temptation of money, no matter how much they might
offer! Full support on this campaign of vital defence of British interests and national Sovereignty!
PaulB. The Morgenstern would in fact be the Morning Star! We can see the evident common origins of the words! - i think our new man at the seat of power will do his level best, certainly got a hell of a job on his hands trying to get central govement to open their purse.
the hospital is
a non starter, all done and dusted at buckland.
best to concentrate on what is possible. - Colin, I love, love, love that picture above, There's an awful lot
of talented forumites out there! - Thanks ever so much Colette, and when I get that jackpot, we`ll hire it for a forumite party.
- Great picture there Colin, as PaulB said its interesting to see a view looking shorewards. Is the training vessel a brigantine? shades of Hornblower spring to mind.
- Was it a "trip round the bay" Colin? Reminds me of the Wild Rose many years ago. Anyone else remember that? There was another boat as well but I can't remember the
name. - I was down the end of the POW pier Terry, and it was blowing
hard, so extremely lucky not to have blurring. I remember two boats in the early 60s, and the two landing stages with wheels on. I`m sure they must be in a picture somewhere? - I was waiting for your aerial view Paul for the Rolls Royce event, and what a great shot, and thank goodness the weather forecast that I was told about was wrong. Hope it`s not long till the next event, certainly packed out
down there today. - Wow what a view - wonderful.
- looking at that picture again, herr paul has been clever with
this one.
it gives the impression that the promenade is free of builders rubble.
the camera has been aimed with a purpose in mind. - The Burden of
Bureaucracy.,
The Burden of Bureaucracy will be debated at length,ad nauseam,in the next three to four weeks and in the Autumn.
The Burden of Bureaucracy in East Kent should be a prime target and justifiably so.
In East
Kent we have an enormous Burden of Bureaucracy all of which have enormous costs attached to them.
In East Kent we have four district councils performing the same function.
To achieve this we have four chief executives,four
expensive management teams,four of everything including the costs of several departments Governance,Finance,Developement (Planning! / Regeneration! ) Property and Procurement,Revenue and Benefits,Housing and last but not lest Two Hundred
Councillors when Fifty will suffice.
To remove this unnecessary Burden of Bureaucracy we require one council of East Kent.
Each of the four districts will be represented by their chosen councillors.Thats Democracy.
Our
Town/Parish Councils will be more effective and be more able to inform/advise their particular councillors of their peoples requirements / concerns.Our councillors will be more accountable.
Will sense prevail soon? Better than later
!. - Great pictures again PaulB. Lets have another one like this again, VERY soon.
- Great pics - I did
not manage to get down to the seafront yesterday but did manage to get to the Western Heights for a short time. So its nice to catch up on the event here. - Reg, I
don't care how many councillors there are as long as our Port is not flogged off, that is top priority here in Dover. I hope no-one who is against privatisation gives in to money temptations, no-matter how much they offer! Once Dover
were to give in, we could never undo the shame and disgrace, and would go down in history as failed! That would be a terrible day!
As for council workers, we need a few hundred more in Dover district, to train young British people to
work on farms and in the still remaining factories, and to work in factories that need to be re-introduced, such as the textile and shoe-making sectors, and many others! - I saw British and French soldiers fraternising while eating hot sausages. I also ordered one, with mustard, it was either English or Dijon. I gathered that a Strategy had been put in place: the officers shouted out a truce, the
soldiers got together, and we are getting ready to launch a joint campaign! British and French together! - alex, were they english sausages with french mustard
or were they french sausages with english mustard,and finally were they english or french onions. - It was lovely to see the seafront so packed yesterday with people and to see
such a splendid aray of Rolls Royces, my favourite has to be the one above in the picture, definitely had to be dragged away from that one.
- Put me down for a
Yellow Rolls too! Nice pictures PaulB of the impressive concourse of beautiful cars from a great era of British car design and engineering. I like the close up of the Rolls Royce vintage radiator with those marvellous bulbous
headlamps. - all great photos, the third one down caught my eye, the one where mr rolls refuses to look at the bigwigs below.
caption
competition???? - Turn the other cheek.
- This Roller's not for
turning! - Great photos Paulb, but an even greater week-end, the weather was kind to us too wasn't it.
Enjoyed the Western Heights on Saturday and the Seafront on
Sunday.
Missed the fireworks on Saturday evening though.
Well done everyone for their truly great efforts and organising skills.
Roger - PAULB
Interesting photo's, I know that Gordon Cowan although he doesn't post, does look at Doverforum on a regular basis.
Nigel Collor can't realy say hes a forumite any more as cant remember when he last posted
so many EX forumite?
Funnily enough won't say where but I met him last week and we chatted for a while.
N Kenton i got to know briefly whilst on the council and he brims with ethusiasm
but the day was good and
lovely photo's - REG
How are yer buddy,
Still not convinced which councils would go(in your eyes) which would stay, where LOCAL decisions would be?
Check on
the south wales area to see how badly it affected there.
I rest my case - keith
can you use your persuasive charm to get gordon posting here.
he is an
interesting and sometimes controversial character and now that he is head red locally, would be good to hear his take on local issues. - HOWARD
I will ask him,
but I do know that sadly when he has been controversial, or just given a view,
or worse asked an editor NOT to report a story as it was incorrect.
that person still went ahead and printed it.
So he's not over confident on
wanting to post.
You only have to look at my innocent posting on fostering and how others(one) tried to make it into a political football, and another opportunity to attack him.
Gordon is a good friend of mine, so probably
i have a biased view, but that said I know what he and his family went through in his earlier days with parts of the local media so i'm sure you will understand his concerns on posting.
So I will ask and report
back - thanks for that keith, sorry to hear about a bad past experience from him, we had a chat on saturday and i made it clear to him that anything he said would not be posted
on here without his express permission, that applies to anyone that talks to me.
gordon is well respected all round, even roger sang his praises on another thread. - PaulB
Thanks for posting Charlie Boys speech.I must admit that there is very little I disagree with,he touched on the main topics that affect Dover,hospital,regeneration,port sell off and immigration.Lets hope he keeps up
the promise shown by delivering good results. Results will what he will eventually be judged upon. - I agree Marek, it was a good Maiden Speech.
Nothing
anyone could argue with but much that people could support.
Onwards and Upwards Charlie - well done. - HOWARD
I have spoken to AGordon and he is considering
it - I concur Gents.. flipping internet hates me today!!
Actually made me smile so thats got to be good surely?! - Good to see the responses to Charlie's speech and we would like to hear more, so if anyone would like to comment on Charlie's speech and on his start generally then we want to hear from you.To make a comment just use the Box
above all welcome.
Just want to say thanks too for all the excellent comments re the Rolls Royce coverage and for the comments in general.
The feature is now in our ALL RECENT FEATURES archive section.
ps: yes
Gordon would certainly be welcome onboard. Already had a couple of press releases from the new labour leadership team so many thanks for those too. - A terrific
maiden speech to watch, and just as enjoyable to read. Thanks Charlie and Paul for making it available to us. - PAULB
Can't say i disagree
with any of Charlies comments although some like the George Cross appear to be out of reach and the hospital looks a dead duck.
But I'm happy to support Charlie in these aims and see how far this all goes
like MAREK says the
proof will be how much is achieved - charlie obviously gave a lot of thought to it, must have practiced in front of the mirror too.
certainly gave dover a lot of mentions,
pity there were not more members in the chamber. - Thanks for posting the maiden speech, interesting to hear what he had to say on our behalf...not bad
Charlie.
Update on the saturday Dover market...great day had by all on the 5th as weather was fantastic and brought every body out into the town..busy,busy! Hope it continues. - pandora,it was a pleasure to meet you last saterday [5th],hope to see you there this saterday.
- An excellent maiden speech by Charlie, thanks PaulB for
publishing it in full for the community to view and comment on. - Pandora
Your comment about the Saturday market.
Considering there were supposed to be between
30 and 40 stalls, I don't consider around 8, to be a success.
30 to 40 stalls would make a big difference - to everyone: the shops would benefit from the increased footfall, the stalls would obviously benefit and so would draw
more and more in.
I know this because I came up with the idea and progressed it with the Market Manager and Dover District Council to the point where they agreed to progress the Planning Application.
I had also secured
funding to promote and market the market, but none of this is being done; instead Dover businesses are being asked to have a stall.
I want Dover to succeed and make progress, but 8 stalls on a Saturday, won't bring in the
crowds.
A positive approach is obviously necessary, but not dreaming.
Roger
- A very fine Maiden speech there by a very fine Man! Well Done
Charlie, you have done us proud.
A fantastic couple of front pages there in the last few days, the Rolls Royce event and now Charlie's maiden speech from our very own topical Doverforum
site! - Roger
I agree with your comments.Maybe there could be some form on incentive scheme to attract stallholders ie book 4 weeks and get a week
free or something similar.
Why not have one side of the market made available for Bootfair type stalls.
A crowded market place does attract more punters even if they are just browsing.The cafes,restaurants , pubs and other
shops would benefit from the fallout. - Roger, to make a calculation, although I have nothing against the idea of market stalls in Market Square, it is not so that the shops
will benefit from it, as the stalls would only reduce spending in the shops! This limiting the focus on Dovorians.
If, as it would seem you suggest, the market attracts people from outside, well, may-be in the Middle Ages markets
functioned like that, when people brought cattle to be sold, or their farm implements to be repaired or sharpened. Not today!
Also, if people from, say, Canterbury and Folkestone, or from any other location, came to shop in Dover
specifically because of the Saturday market, by all rights of calculation this must mean that the shops (and markets!) in canterbury and Folkestone (or wherever) would lose business.
So, yes, take the water here and elsewhere will go
arid! or vice-versa! from an overall economic point of view, it won't create more business in Kent, as one smile here (more customers) will be another one's lost smile! - I don't agree Alexander.
If there are enough market stall holders here, it will increase footfall here too. I don't think Dover suffers because there are street markets in
Canterbury, Sandwich, Folkestone and Deal and I don't think they would suffer if we had a good market here on a Saturday.
8 or 9 stalls is not a good street market.
Many Towns around the Country have street markets and we
have visited a number of them and the stalls and shops both benefit.
The problem with the Dover one, is that it isn't being organised properly by the Chamber of Commerce; certainly not how I had envisaged it anyway.
I'm not
complaining about the Market Manager at all.
Roger - Roger
What a negative view! All projects like this take time. Obviously more stalls would be better and
I for one am spreading the word, especially with crafters..my point was that the stall holders that were there supporting Dover did well...no dreaming!
P.S Nice to meet you too Brian
- What a superb picture of the Spitfire above by Paul Watkins. Looks almost model like. This machine didn`t seem to really get much mention or picture`s on the forum for the
Rolls Royce weekend. This shot makes up for it though. - Colin we did have some good pictures of the spitfire in various guises from the previous week - dont know if you missed
those...and here's another now above. We do/did feature quite a bit of everything from the bigwigs to the cars ( Rolls Royces) themselves. So variety is the spice...as they
say. - incredible pic of the spitfire, to me it looks more like an oil painting.
- Sorry
Paul, yes we did the previous week, some excellent shots on the forum, but the recent display didn`t seem to attract the same response. - Roger, I am still trying to figure out
how your proposal cannot affect shopping in Kent, as the people coming from afar to Dover Market would be from the neighbouring Kentish areas, and if you do your shopping here, you won't do the same shopping in your own town or village
of residence. So somewhere there would be less customers in order for Dover to have more customers doing their shopping!
Your proposal would only make sense if people had more money to spend, but this is not the case.
As for your
concern that their are not enough stalls in Market Square on Saturdays, now that Gov. has promissed to lay off hundreds of thousands of people from the public sector, we may be seing many more stalls going up!
In both meanings of the
phrase! Still, I have nothing against Dover market. - Bumped into BarryW this afternoon setting up in pencester for tomorrw, was somewhat worried that the football would
keep poeple away but i'm sure that everyone will fined time to pop into Pencester to have a nose, as you can see by the information above that there will be alot to see and hear.
Nice to see the pictures above of the spitefire from
the other side of the Channel as well. - jan
the football does not start until the evening, will not affect attendances at the day
event. - Thanks Jan and Howard - its the evening dance that is affected by the football. Expect a great evening however so anyone who wants to escape the world cup do
come down to St Mary's Church Hall, £8 pre-booked tickets, £10 at the door - American Supper....
We are reasonably well set up for the daytime event, the big job of fixing the dance floor in the Park will start at 7am, then the
camo netting and pa system.... should be ready for the 10am opening though.
Hoping now to get plenty of vehicles arrive, you can never predict who will turn up. - barry
do you have a rough timetable for the singing people?
been asked this a few times today? - Howard - thanks to some last minute amendments
(improvements!) to the programme I wont have it until I am in the Park, sorry.
I will be there from 7am and will try to post using my Backberry but cannot be sure how well it will work. I will post (or try) here on the front
page.
Late tonight I should be able to post the Sunday schedule. - Sorry been trying to do schedule but not practical on this Blackberry
- Excellent photos from what looked like a fantastic event - well done to everyone involved.
- Great pictures,
and a great event, and the sun came out in the end. - Well done Barry enjoyed our walk round as you can see by the pictures above, and yes the sun did shine after all. Couldn't
make the dance but hope it all went well. - what can i say?
congratulations to barry and all others involved, hopefully the weather will hold tomorrow.
the
military vehicles were the high point for me. - See my new thread folks, 'Well done Dover....' and you will see why I cant post a schedule for Sunday as promised -
its very, very good news......
thanks for all the great comments, it make the whole thing worthwhile. - Well done Barry and the team; good to see you and many
others yesterday.
The singing and dancing were good to see and hear - and the weather as predicted, was good too.
Loved the old military vehicles; not so many civvy cars as last year, this isn't a complaint at all, just an
observation. Loved that Buick though: beautiful car; beautiful condition.
A good stall selling CD's of music from the 30s through to the 60s
Pandora
How do you make it a negative view - the only negativity was
how few stalls there are and this was the third week. No matter how you paint it Pandora, 8/9 stalls is not a success.
It's not always true to say these things take time; if it had been done properly to start with, there would
have been lots of stalls from the first day, but it wasn't done properly and if it continues not to be done properly, it won't grow either.
Good Luck with the craft stalls.
Why post under a pseudonym Pandora, can't
you post using your real name ?
Is is Spencer or Cameron ?
Roger - BarryW
Well done to you and your team. Thanks for posting the photos everyone its
really super to see photo's of old friends enjoying themselves. You look stunning Maggie and Simon..thats a great shot! Hope everyone has a successful second day. "Wish I was there" - roger
pandora is pandora, i spoke to her yesterday briefly, she pointed out that business was a bit down on the previous week due to the hellfire event and the folkestone multicultural
festival, bus was still reasonably satisfied and thought that the market was likely to be a success. - roger old chap,we know that you got a grience about the
market,but it dosent help keep knocking whats there.at times like this we must be gratefull for what we get. - Loved that Scammell recovery truck brought back a lot of memories.
A great event well done to all those that worked hard to put the weekend together. - Thank you Barry for another great 1940s weekend here's to the next one. Alan
- Nothing to do with grievance Brian - just what could/should have been.
Why be happy with second best ?
If every time I make a constructive
critcisism about anything - and I mean anything, if it's going to be construed as a grievance or sour-grapes, then there's no point in posting on anything is there ?
Roger - roger,just sounded like a grievance to me.thats how it appears to me anyway.
- Roger
By all means keep plugging away Dover needs you!! One should always look to improve not stand still and stagnate. - ROGER
Did try to tell you quite
early on, the way your coming across(at times)sounds like sour grapes.
You may or may not be correct over the C.O.C. issue we will never know a BARRYW the chair or any other C.O.C person won't give the alternative view, so we are
stuck to know what went on.
It would have been nice to have come to a conclusion once hearing the C.OFC side but its not to be.
But i'm all for supporting whoever wants to brighten up, makre Dover a better
place.
The market may not be perfect but it's a start and should be encouraged and hopefully built on(not houses lol)
k - Last day of the Hellfire Corner/Spitfire
features above and after that they will move into the All Recent Features archive for later enjoyment. Really enjoyed BarryW's event in Pencester always good photo opportunities at that one and thanks to PaullyW too for his Spitfire
coverage from the other side of the channel.
Next feature up on the frontpage will be the Official Launch event at the Seasport Centre with Plaque unveiling and so on, so watch for that...up soon!
Re posts below...Was over
at the market on saturday around midday, took a few pictures, not sure but were there a couple fewer stalls? - looked like two more to me paul, just glanced very
quickly. - excellent spread there, nice to see the leader of calais council getting involved.
i believe that paul w said a while back that there were efforts
being made to make dover and calais work together. - So who's the woman in the burqa between Bill Fawcus and Lord Boyce??
- well spotted bob, the lady seems taller in one picture than the other.
- Yes indeed, it was a pleasure to be present at this official opening and I wish the new Seasport
Centre great success. Its great to see this positve liaison between Dover and Calais, long may it continue.
John, good to hear the news of the Excellence Award. Well done to
all. - Yes Colette very good news re The Sea Sports Centre and the LABC Awards. Its quite an achievement even to be nominated as we know in these kinds of
things, much as is with the Academy Awards for example, to get a nomination is an achievement in itself. So four nominations for the building here on our very own Dover beach is very good indeed. As stated above...It won a highly prized
"Commended" in the Best Technical Development category.
It is also entered in the Royal Town Planning Institute Awards for 2010 and also into the RIBA awards too...so one hopes it will do very well in those.
Looking out
at it now as I write it looks very good indeed in the afternoon sun, with the canooists gathering beneath its wings as it were. Makes you wonder how we managed before it was
built. - Good to see the excellent coverage above of the official opening of the sea sports centre wishing it
well, and well done for the award I'm sure it will be very well used and clearly an asset for the seafront. - Just a small comment
senior citizens use the
place but say if thy put on some cakes, or scons, or toasted tea cakes they would make a killing in there during quiet periods
just a thought - Just realised who was
under burqa yes it was KEEF! - You guessed it John..its that Keef guy, he gets in everywhere. But just kidding.. of course the 'Burkha' was just a stand, that clarification for
the concerned out there who may be worrying unduly.
That feature on the recent Grand Opening of the Sea Sports Centre now in our All Recent Features area. - Yes you noticed my mistake Paul it should have read 'Burkha' but it is still Keith that shape is unmistakable.
- Hi John/paulb
am I missing summat?
where was I?
UNDER what?
trhink iv misses something - Ah nooo you havent missed anything...its just that the stand holding the plaque at the recent unveiling as featured here on
this frontpage looked like someone wearing a burkha. Feature now in All Recent Features if you havent seen it...but you must have already seen it Im sure....as its been on here for past few
days, - Yes Paul you have done your best .Indeed my hat was Black .I think the one with Mike Webb shows off the fact I was wearing Black and White .
To be honest Im not
much of a Sailor .I found the floors slippery and Mike had to support me at times in case I slipped.No I had not been drinking . - PAULB/HOWARD
I suppose the give a way was
the burkha was red lol
knew I should have picked different colour - Lovely pictures of the Disney Magic and Sue, Linda and David looking fabulous. Goofy better get a move
on with that paint job!! - the design of that ship is superb, excellent photo of it there.
- Nice pictures
just love the one of Goofy and nice to see the ship somewhat closer in the top picture thanks to Mr Mavin, a nice selection of pictures thanks guys. - just spotted that
hat from susan, would not have been out of place at ascot this week. - howard,i thought that it was a large tent she was standing
under.lol. - Sue,
Nice to see you getting the publicity you deserve.
Could you in your travels check the bottleneck by the coop and bad parking in River in that
area
thanks - Will contact Parking services Stephen .
- It would be nice if just the normal locals of Dover
had a chance to go on and look around the ship or some school children rather than the normal faces that tend to go to these events?? - LOL!!! PaulB, lashes and stocks indeed!
The save ColetteB petition is already doing the rounds.
Disney Magic is absolutely Fantabulous. - This only the second time in 23 years I have been
afforded the privellege of going on a cruise ship . - that is only because they were not aware of your penchant for spectacular headwear susan.
expect many more invites
now that they have met you. - i am sure that is 2 more times than most in Dover Sue !!
- Tracey
The
whole point of the ship is for children - paying of course. I have made the point and am making it that I would like them to include going to some disadvantaged group in Dover rather than QEQM.
Unless we go on board and make
these representations then nothing will be done - It would not be possible to take numbers on board. The security was tight. - Yes David I was just going to make the
point to Tracey that there is indeed little point in Disney taking 20 or so local people onboard...it achieves nothing at all. They took as I understand it...but let me labour the point I wasnt among them...about 20 people onboard..made
up of journalists and a small band of bigwigs.
The reason for this is that the journalists can spread the word widely about the ship...the bigwigs are there for the jornalists to photograph so that their stories bear some
relation, some connection, to the town itself. Thats basically why its done...its not a magnanimous gesture so that everyone can feel nice..everyone is actually doing a job.
By the way Tracey...if you want to join the merry band
of Forumites (members) drop me a line on
dover7@msn.com
as I am aware you have posted a number of times. let me know...if you dont want to thats fine too. - So agree with what was said below if you saw the coverage in the papers it was fairly poor to say the least.
If it hadn't been for forumites takeing the above pictures we in Dover would not have had much idea of what it
was like,so papers verses viewing figures who sends out the wider message. - how about a caption competition with the deputy mayor and mickey mouse.
david h "you
must come to one of our town council meetings mickey"
mickey "i have heard about them, i would probably fit in very well there". - My new blog is at
bailestales.blogspot.com/ I have added Doverforum as a link but now have toi work out how to get it to show on the page!! Any advice would be great - lips that
touch wine will never touch mine kathy.
i bet that made you feel better. - I knew that would happen!!!!!!
- Howard, oo-er! Not quite sure what to make of that comment!
- i appreciate work has to be done on events like
this but the results of things never seems to get shown. All we see David are the big wigs of Dover getting perks. We do not see the whole picture.
It would be great to follow something through, for everyone to know the reason why
they were all on board, to see what it achieves for the everyday person/child in Dover? do you not agree? - Tracey ,
There were three people from DDC and three from DTC which included their officer .Yes
something was gained and I have already written to DHB. People from the cruise ships should be encouraged to visit Dover's attractions
In my duties I shall sell Dover District all the time . - you get around paul, did you use the motorised bicycle?
excellent headwear from our susan as always. - howard,if you go down the libary and look at the dwmp exibit you will see some one you know.there is a bunch of pictures there in which you will see this person.its labaldwot no
gun. - I didn`t know the forces still used carrier pigeon`s? Did our freind there get an invite?
- all very
intriguing brian, i will try to traverse there on the morrow. - Howard yes I am currently rocket propelled and Colin as of yet the pigeon has not joined up, despite
invites.
Since we did that goodwill celebration feature yesterday, now showing above, the news that the grim milestone figure of 300 dead was reached in Afghanistan came through. Grim news indeed. I have now added an EXTRA piece
to the story above to acknowledge this fact, but if anyone likes to comment as to why Afghanistan is worth it or not...then please do in the box above. - My
knowledge of Afghanistan and Iraq is limited. What I would ask some knowledgeable person out there is, how has South Korea, Vietnam and any other wartorn countries we`ve been involved in, faired since the American`s withdrew? Come to
that, what about Ireland? Has it all been accepted now that we were right at the time? - Nice sunny day above supporting the Brave Armed Forces in the lovely town of
Sandwich
Tragic loss of life in Afghanistan, can't believe its 300! Yes why are we still there? - Yes sadly we lose yet another member of our armed
forces, and so we still question why.
Was good to be at Sandwich as well to support the armed forces flag raising.
- the eagle pub is opening again next week it
has a new landlord - thanks for info kim, hope it becomes a success story, the potential is certainly
there.
32,574 people support Charlie.- Well yes good news of sorts
about The Eagle, but Im afraid to say these pubs only barely scrape a living these days so how long will it remain open. The market has shifted and gone away, nothing whatsoever to do with the smoking ban..its gone to the Kittiwake and
the Duke of York and indeed The Premier Inn.. just across the road from yours truly so activity highly visible to me at all times.
Also fairly near me is another old pub..The First and Last. That opens and closes more often
than...well, more often than Ive had hot dinners. You might amble down there for a drink and jeez you find it closed down again, then you might drift by and find it open again with new landlords, then you go back and its closed down
again. They cant scratch a living.
Best to consolidate in one or two good pubs in the hope that they survive. - Well this is my first posting as a member so
hello to everyone on the site - welcome tracey, don't forget to go through the threads on the members page, barrys blog, rogers whats on and ricks
movies. - i am just finding my way around now Roger thank you, it looks a brilliant site well done to all invloved
- Welcome Tracy -
A very good site this for the local News and Goss...so much better than a certain Express I do not have it in my heart to mention!
Paul -
So true about the pubs - really miss the Hare and Hounds in
Maxton - many a happy gig done there and now all closed-up and forlorn, but some are thriving by inviting in Music and other acts - smoking ban certainly did not help - I would get throught 5 or 6 songs to an empty bar whilst peeps went
out for a gasper sometimes!
But it seems to be a national trend, not hellped by certain breweries hiking their prices so that the Landlord has a tough time making a decent profit. - the hare and hounds was very small buddy, they would have needed it packed
all the time to survive.
the people there seemed to try everything to attract business, even having a curry evening in midweek.
Dover Council Chief Executive 'Nadeem Aziz' refuses to let Dover ENGLISH football fans watch the ENGLAND v Slovenia crucial football match on the Market Square big screen
because it would be too popular - WHAT A JOKE !!- Well Roger one has to ask oneself what is the screen for if its not for an occasion like this. I take it they didnt have
a last minute change of heart. It was a huge sporting occasion for the country. In Market Sq we have a giant screen flickering away showing nothing day after day. It had a chance to make an impact today..to prove some justification for
its existence.
Last week they showed the opera for a handful of culture vultures, 1% of the population, but here today we have something akin to the opium of the masses and its not shown..and we want our opium!
England won
1-0
If the screen isnt for an occasion like this then why is it there? - We`ve just got to have a Jaguar weekend or similar as a follow up to that hugely
successful Rolls Royce event the other weekend. Great picture`s Paul, and what a lucky position to be in, otherwise they may have all gone unrecorded. - Ah yes luckily nice
pictures and nice cars..thanks for that. And yes lucky to be able to see it and be able to record it so that all can see it. The Jaguar marque could almost match Rolls Royce in popularity so a seafront spectacular would be hugely welcome
and also attract great crowds. This is something Dover could look at more...the car rally seafront aspect..of British cars of course, so that it has that heritage link. Relatively cheap to put on too but very palatable to a huge amount
of people. The Rolls Royce weekend was an absolute cracker. - Paulb
Great photos.Thanks for posting them. As for the TV screen another missed opportunity. Dover
was worried about traffic and shoppers in but in France they erected screens especially for the World Cup with the busiest one being on the Champs Elysees in front of the Eifel Tower...and Dover were worried about their traffic
problems!!!. It's a bloody disgrace...they all want shooting - great photos there, a great way to start a lovely summers
day. - My favourites! sorry I missed it but have been ill at home all week!
the second one down is the famous SS jaguar that had to be renamed near the second world
war for obvious reasons.
third one up is an XK150 and one of my desires - it lead to the development of the most beautiful car in the world the E-type.
I am in contact with jaguar enthusiasts club - just waiting time to visit
them and have already got the grip on the RR club so want to encourage car meetings here. why not, its just a super run out and the sea front is a superb backdrop - now can we have the Churchill open to service them!!! - oh and sorry, SS stood for Swallow Sport in old jag terms so that is the connection.
Another boring fact is that in the original Saint stories he drove a Hirondel which as
you all know is french for swallow - Charteris just didnt want to advertise his love for the SS. - Oooh I do love the older
jags……….sigh……….. - Well done Big Dave your right worshipful self...thanks for all the detail there I didnt know you were a Jaguar enthusiast, also very good to see you are
looking into historic vehicle possibilities for the seafront, could be great and would certainly be popular with everyone. Hope you are back in tip top condition soon.
Thanks to all for the comments. Always appreciated as good to
know what viewers are liking and so on. - Swallow were of course the coachbuilders
- Just great to
see the old Jags it really tugs at the old heart strings what with Rolls Royces and these, did a sigh when I put away me little MG in the garage today. - Great photos of wonderful
cars - old and new - thank you Paul.
Shame I missed it, I would have loved to have seen them as much as the Rollers.
As regards the Big-Screen not showing the England game because it was 3pm kick-off, my understand is that it
was the Police who insisted on the car-park and Castle Street being closed, nothing to do with DDC - apparantly because of anti-terrorism measures.
Anti-terrorism ??
The District Council were not prepared to close the
above in the middle of the afternoon, as it would not have been fair to the businesses, so they get the blame for the non-event.
Roger - Roger
B*****Ks to both the Police and DDC. Not you of course mate. - Marek. I do not think there was any need to talk like that,I do not agree with the
D.D.C. but not with words like that,+you are not even in Dover anymore. - One day out of 300 plus a year, are hardly likely to affect any business
I`d have thought. - Not having it on probably effected business more, as town was deserted. Had it of been on alot of people would have been down there and using the shops and
cafes etc. Ways should have been looked at of embracing it and making money out of those that would have been there instead of looking at the negatives all the time. - vic, i
agree with marek here, the sooner we get a council with some get up and go the better. this wouldnt include ukip as a voice ,being that the new get up and go council would be applying eu grants for
regeneration. - I agree with the comments below, its such a shame Wimbledon and the World Cup are not being taken advantage of with the TV in the Market Square. It would in this
lovely weather encourage spending whilst enjoying the game, as it stands it just there bleating out rubbish. Come on Dover let us move with the times, the rest of the country are cashing in on this why not Dover?
The council
really need to take a look at how far behind Dover is generally what with the state of the high street etc to all the people in power, open your ears to the people and learn from what they are saying please ! - Vic
I was expressing my views,to which I am entitled. My choice of vocabulary merely indicated what both the Police and DDC don't have by not showing the footie.
I have heard
worse at Crabble!!! - Great pix there PaulB, our man on the spot! Staff car duly ordered, Your Lordship lol! you should be so
lucky! - Fabulous Jags, mouthwatering even for a non-car afficionado.
Re the big screen, three of my family alone wanted to go to the Market Square
for the England game. It would have been heaving and just the sort of event to bring the community together for once. What an own goal, to use footballing parlance. Makes a mockery of having the big telly, which I thought of as a
spectacular plus for the town. If they don't know how to use it then might as well send it back. Wonder if they kept the box? - Re the football on the Big Screen. Ive
heard whispers that they have had a change of heart and are now going to show England v Germany on sunday on the Big Screen.
Can anyone definitely confirm this??
* * *
also re Jaguars and
particularly the Austin Swallow above. Ive had some interesting information through from Ken Baker...many thanks Ken.
Ken says...
"
Paul
The car on your front page is a 1929 Austin 7 Swallow Sports and has every
right to be at a Jaguar meet.
In 1922 William Lyons started Swallow Sidecars in Blackpool and also made bodies for Austin 7's, among others. His first original car was the SS1 of 1931. Later came the SS90 and SS100, the Jaguar
name replaced SS around 1936.
Full details on my motoring site www.britishmm.co.uk
Ken (vintage)
" - DDC website has said:
Live World
Cup Matches on the Big Screen
Live football matches from the World Cup will be shown on the Big Screen in Dover Market Square.
Sunday's England v Germany match will be shown
- The car on your front page is a 1929 Austin 7 Swallow Sports and has every right to be at a Jaguar meet.
In 1922 William Lyons started Swallow Sidecars in Blackpool
and also made bodies for Austin 7's, among others. His first original car was the SS1 of 1931. Later came the SS90 and SS100, the Jaguar name replaced SS around 1936.
Full details on my motoring site
www.britishmm.co.uk
- Ah Scotchie yer a gem as ever. Thanks for the info.
All systems go for a hectic Market Sq on Sunday.
Thanks Ken.
- Let's not forget it wasn't DDC that stopped the last England game being shown, it was the Police - using anti-terrorism rules.
Completely unnecessary in
my view.
Roger - Ken if you are out there looking in we might need your help on the Beautiful British Car thread running in the forum. Ive just put up some
pictures of striking cars there but no idea about them... - Paul
The cars are outside my usual era but I'll give it a go.
DH10 SJH is a Lotus Exige,
possibly a CUP 260 which more or less is full racing spec with carbon fibre body.
LF53 AZJ is listed with the DVLA as a 2003 2968cc Noble.
The DVLA list the blonde's car (S15 GTO) as a 2002 2544cc Noble. Given the personal
plate it could be something like a M12 GTO. - Gosh Ken staggering there, well done with that...I will also copy that post to the thread in question. Thanks a
million. - I'll be there to give support to our boys in red, EN-GER-LAND!
- Does anyone have
information about the Dover Carnival I thought it was the first Saturday in July - but not seen any posters or advertising - We were planning a family BBQ with family travelling from up north? - Changed to August this year ..Something to do with the football
- i thought it was something to do with a travelling fair
visiting dover. - The safety day was great, i was down there with hubby and kids * 3 and they loved it. Well done to all that took part.
- Also had a walk around the safety day in Pencester was good to see it was well supported, with many children there enjoying themself's. But also getting across a good message
about safety in our community. - Apart from the unneccesary music booming out of the speaker`s, annoying a few people including myself, (and I did like a few of the
tracks), a good event. - Now that would have been a great opportunity for you to get an aerial shot of the event PaulB, it's not that high, Gulp!
- I hear on the radio this morning that England Manager Mr Capello is flying home today for a meeting with the Club England Chairman about his future. There should be no future.
Capello should be fired, due to the abysmal perforrmances. All the national newspapers this morning are using words like dismal, disastrous, abysmal, thrashed etc etc. This man can have no future here surely.
Now there's no doubt
that Capello in his time has been a good football manager...but his lack of the English language for a start, is one of his worst problems. Initially he couldnt speak a word of English, so how can he/could he communicate with his players
or anyone else. Through an interpreter in fact initially. Even our glorious government recognises that if immigrants dont have English they are of little use. Capello cant illustrate either the nuances of techniqiue, nor can he upbeat
goodwill and positivety, as he forever struggles to get the words out. Win or lose his grim demeanour always stays the same, as his primary concern seems to be how he can mangle the English language even further. Its time for change.
Let's start with a communicator.
- disagree with that paul, capello is still the man for the job.
the players let him down with the lack of support for
him. - An Englishman for the job. England, the home of football, and we have to have another country to manage us. I was against the last manager from Sweden, a good
bloke, but not from these shore`s, so nothing to do with us losing yesterday. - I disagree with that Paul also, the players need to take some responsibility, they were lack
lustre no pride in wearing that shirt. Look at the 66 squad, little money invested in the team but pride did it for them.
They are overpaid and need to be accountable, Cappello when all said and done has been given a contract,
this should be honoured or brought out, if we buy him out we may aswell get 10 - 12 million and go out and burn it as that is a waste, as for him not speaking English, he learnt !! i would like to see any English person do the same with
a language ? i think not!! it has been said many times the English lack bi lingual skills. Capello is a strong and confident manager and was hired for them skills, its the players who should be looking at there contracts not the
manager!
English League for English Players is how it should be or at least a percentage of the premier league teams to be English that way we have a vat to choose from when it comes to playing for England . More choice would
hopefully give the manager more to choose from and get better results - PaulB, it seems it will be back to Mediterranean women with long wavy hair for Mr.
Capello! - Anyone seen that new English football movie?...Out of Africa
Breaking News....
England have a new coach...it picked them up at the airport and was
built by Leyland - England plane being diverted to Edinburgh - here they will get a heros welcome!
- Sorry Paul but the blame actually lies with the FA, successive governments over
the last 15-20 years, the premier league and its clubs, the 23 players in the squad and the manager.
The latter 2 are obvious and need no further explanation the former 3 are culpable for:
failing to develop a national
football centre,
failing to develop coaching at all levels (Spain have 1500 A grade coaches who teach in schools),
selling off school playing fields,
failing to adequately invest in sports at all levels and of all
types,
failing to develop youth academies at all professional clubs until too late (Germany made that decision 15 years ago and see the results today),
having home grown player quotas for all teams at all levels,
having a mid
season break in January.
Until most if not all of those are solved England will over promise and under deliver on the international stage - interesting post there ross,
will have to digest all that, although selling off the playing fields and the winter break strike an immediate chord.
taking in the top photo, the expressions of the people in it describe many human emotions.
resignation,
disappointment, disbelief and despair take precedence. - Might I point out that 'we' only just beat Slovenia which has a population of only 2 million.
My
son's partner is Slovenian and she said that she wasn't aware that they had enough flat land in the country for a full sized football pitch! - Due to the recent Budget
cuts(more to come Oct 20th.)our police forces are planning to Merge!Why not our Councils??
England 3 Australia 0.Now for the Whitewash. - A very good
point Mr Hansell Again I have said this over the few years some of our parish councils aswell they are too small and like River we have two councils right next to each other and one council could do the work for both parishs,we only have
to look at the church now they have only one vicar and some of them have to look after 3 or more parishs it may not be right but if you have to make cutbacks. - Interesting comments there guys re the football so many thanks for those. Some newspapers have resisted the calls for Fabio's head but of course some
havent. It will be interesting to see how it pans out with the FA in due course. Once the position gets soured it becomes very difficult.
Reg I dont think there is a cats chance in hell of the police forces merging. The previous
government tried to do this but was resisted at every level. In the end it became easier just to leave them alone but set performance targets as the best option left on the table. The police are reluctant to abolish years of tradition,
but there have been dreadful clangers where criminals have thrived because the various police forces failed to link up. A united single force looks ideal to the casual observer but is it? Joe Public doesnt know for sure. Therefore
holding the police forces up as a beacon of advancement re the merging councils issue doesnt really hold water. - And more importantly - competitive sport is
actively discouraged in schools now. End of the line if the kids dont want to compete!!
The final blame lies with the FA - did they renegotiate under duress and now can't sack a highly paid failure?
Who are these people
that dish out silly sums? Where are they accountable? How much do they earn? - health and safty david gets every where these days,including the cooking of the humble
sausage. - Wonderful weather and nice pictures.
On such a day and with such pictures one can see where the phrase 'my cup runneth over' (Psalms 23:5) comes from..... - ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh mmmmmmmmmyyyyyyyyyyyy wwwwwwwwwwwooooooorrrrrrrrddddddddd!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Listened to the
debate on 606 last night. It was quite depressing if only because I am currently reading a football book originally published in 1933.
All, and I mean all, the issues raised last night are raised in the book.
So, for 77
years the FA hasn't done anything remotely likely to advance our standing in the world of football; and that is an absolute disgrace. Time to get rid of the upper echelons and put some proper football people in charge. - might be a long wait sid, back in 1953 hungary came across to wembley stuffing us 6 - 3 playing inventive football not known
here.
our then captain a certain alf ramsey called them a bunch of fancy dans that would never be able to take a stiff tackle.
we then went to budapest to get revenge and were pipped 7 -
1. - Personally I think some players become very famous and very rich, and automatically are chosen for the national team, when in reality a more constant look-out for
players might detect some who do well even without having been promoted to the millonaire class. - I note your comment with regard to the traffic
accident on the Seafront Dover involving a motor cycle ie. THINK BIKE. I was parked at the Clock Tower end when this incident occurred and just a few minutes prior to this two motor cyclists passed me travelling towards East Cliff at an
excessive speed. Not a Police Officer in sight and then suddenly there are more Policemen than general public. How about THINK CARS. - think sensibly would be my idea of a logo
john.
yes motor cyclists have been known to beat the sound barrier, saw some yesterday on the brow of a hill overtaking a bus.
some car drivers do not appear to have rear view mirrors or indicators,many cyclists do as they want
and i despair of seeing pedestrians crossing a road without looking too busy text messaging or uttering banalities into a mobile telephone.
not forgetting motorists and truckers using their telephone whilst negotiating a right
hand turn. - You try going out on Motorcycle Wednesday around the Deal area - you need eyes in every direction. I am sure motorcyclists need to think a bit more
themselves sometimes. I nearly had one this evening overtaking on a bend ignorant of the car 2 in front of me turning right....
Hope the person on the seafront is ok, but there is a lot of damage to the car that would have had
little speed, so the speed must have been on the bike (i rarely do more than 20 myself when the parade is busy) - Can anybody remember which Saturday in August Mandie said the
carnival is this year? - August Bank Holiday weekend Paul.
- Thanks Sid, so thats
the 28th and Dover Athletic are away at Lewes that day so no problems. - I wonder how much of the Spanish Prince's superstructure has been removed, you can imagine the divers
beavering away undersea attaching cables etc. - As far as I can tell Barry nothing has been removed as yet, the platform is only in place at the entrance a few days, but if
they start to rise large chunks of it I will try to get a picture or two..which should make it a bit more interesting. So far not an awful lot to look at.
I wonder if it was an effective method of keeping out submarines and why
did they do it at one entrance/exit only? I know there is more traffic at the other end but still...couldnt they easily slip in there? - I'm sure that originally
there were at least three ships blocking both entrances during the war, the others being removed not long after the end of hostilities. I don't think any subs managed to break through the defences to sink any ships moored there, correct
me if I'm wrong. - In fact she was placed there as a block ship in 1915 during WW1, maybe the powers that be forgot she was there.
- Thanks Barry - got my wars wrong above, now fixed. Thanks for the nod there. That was todays deliberate mistake !
Readers might also like to see also the thread in the
Members Club Forum...on the Spanish Prince( name of submerged vessel) some further pictures there. - Info here on block ships. :-
www.dover.freeuk.com/port/admiralty.htm - while nigel coller is on about white lines etc,can he get some sort sinage for aycliffes hgv
problems. - Trouble is HGV's do whatever they want and go whereever they want...
- It has always been really obvious
that the angled parking along the seafront was silly and high risk - you don't have to be clever to see that!! White lines won't really cut it, will they? - pw,it can work with
the right signage and enforseable.its evan worse when the a20 is shut.try living up here and you would soon get fed up with it. - DDC and DHB should provide decent overnight
parking for lorries/campers/caravans and put a stop to layby and seafront overnighting.
Mucking about with white lines and changing the angle of parking is not dealing with the actual problem. But, as usual, anything likely to
affect parking revenues is stopped, overlooked or sidelined. - The herring bone parking at the East end of the seafront has been a
disaster, it was poorly thought out and implemented. - If most of the general Dover public worked out (in advance) that the diagonal white line parking was such a bloody daft idea
(and most voiced that opinion on this forum) then why o why do the DDC think that they are right and we are wrong?It baffles me somebody has been paid a tremendous amount of money to case study,cost and finally implement these changes
only to have it ruled a failure.Why don't they listen to to us rather than some highly paid London based executive. - the real problem is that local
authorities are increasingly cash strapped and it will get worse despite the "localism" mantra from our new government.
paul the fuhrer and his cohorts in the bunker have no credible way of gaining extra revenue other than from
parking fees. - And speaking of accidents there was yet another one last night but not along the seafront this time, this time the crash closed Jubilee Way heading
uphill. I noticed it about 9.30 last night and it appeared to involve 3 cars. There was a group of police cars in attendance, some blocking off the roads and so on, but I myself did not see an ambulance in attendance but it may have left
the scene by the time I saw the situation ..but yet again a road closed with another accident in a short space of time..whether its the heat sapping people's concentration or not I just dont know, but it could
be. - Paul
It must have been an evening for it! At Whitfield roundabout about 7.30 last night there was an accident. Couldn't see much the direction we
were going, but there was several police cars there, 2 ambulances and i believe there was a car "in the roundabout".
- Thanks for that info Paul, yet another accident. As
one can see the emergency services are fully stretched at the moment. Never seen quite so many crashes. Thats why they need strength in depth. The previous government put lots of resources into frontline services like these, and we can
see them in action, but with the new government talking about cuts of up to 40%, well I dunno what will happen from here on in. - PaulB, it's not the heat. I
drove a car in Europe, in the South, where it really is hot in Summer, but heat does not affect people's driving, as an open window lets in plenty of fresh air.
May-be pretty Mediterranean women... but not the
heat! - Budget Cuts.
25% cuts? 40% cuts? When the effects of these hit home they will not be `fair`!
Combine the cuts with Council Tax being frozen
how can our four district councils survive and provide the public service required on their own? They must amalgamate into an East Kent Council to benefit from the economies of scale.
When the cuts hit home an East
Kent Council will be very appealing.
Unfortunately,we the public only start to react/complain when the manure has hit the fan.
Hope, this time,its sooner than later!! - Howard, I think you'll find they could make savings in other areas if they needed to. Parking revenues are an easy catch and encourage lazy thinking.
- Great set of pictures there shows we all loved them there sausages while having a good time.
- Ah! truly a great afternoon was had by all, sunshine, laughter, good food and drink and last but not least, great company!
Watch out PaulB, there's a good
photographer about..... me..... soooo good I can even take photos of myself lol!!!!! - i was about to ask how you did that colette, smoke and mirrors i
suppose.
all great stuff though. - The band are called The Old Lone Gin Band Paul. Lovely photos!
- Lovely photos, I'm still laughing at 'vampire' Vic!
- Jeane can you make me into a TV star
overnight.? - reg
you are slightly offside with the unitary council thing.
we now have the lovely donna reed/reid that bosses the shared
services scenario.
just a short step away from the complete east kent council thingy.
i heard today that even paul the fuhrer has had to give up his parking space up at the fort.
seems a bit harsh as he only cycled
there. - Colette, you take a great photo!
- Thankyou for the info on the band Sausage Queen. Very useful. I
will add it to the copy above now shortly so that its there when the feature gets transferred into our archive All Recent Features so that readers will always see it. Good to see these traditional bands surviving. Thanks
again.
All done. - Seems like Reg is a stuck record - anything else to say ?
- Just curious-are
the Union Jacks being flown upside down in some of the pictures? - Hello Steve. Im not personally able to help you on that one as I have
no idea, I wouldnt be able to tell. Perhaps someone will know. - this is one of those questions steve, afraid i am like paul i have no idea what is the correct way
up.
the flag of st george is so much simpler. - I believe the broad stripe should be uppermost next to the flag staff-never had this problem with the
Saltire.
I had the same "discussion" with an Honour Guard at the Highland Games on Loon Mountain and was politely escorted away from the VIP tent.(Damned Colonials!!!) - Steve
The correct way to fly the Union Flag is as follows:
The broader (wider) diagonal white stripe should be at the top on the side
of the flag nearest the flagpole.
- Nothing the wrong way up in my garden guys - except the bottles!
- Lovely picture`s above Colette. It was a lovely party, and really nice to have met everyone.
- A really enjoyable afternoon, David and Linda were great hosts as
always, the sausages were plentiful and very tasty they were too, as were the burgers skillfully sliced in half by Colette. Great pictures, the wine and laughter were overflowing on a lovely summers day. - steve,they are
aussie style. - Thanks for all the comments on the Deputy Mayor's and Deputy Mayoress's Garden Party. The feature has now moved into All Recent Features for colourful
archiving. We are now onto the slightly less inebriated topic of potholes. Let us know what you think of potholes, do you have an outbreak near you?
Members can post on this page "live" but obviously need to log in ... non
members can post too, and very welcome they are, but there is a slight delay for non members because of the inevitable spam problems and so forth. - Coombe Valley
Road by the London Fancy Box is very bad, its rattles your bones as you go over it and now with the diversion in place round to the Crickters pub the whole place needs resurfacing.
No Money and great big holes, its time to have
rope and a pith helmet ready should they get too big LOL
Edit: Hi Tracey just to let you know, as you are a member you can post LIVE on this page but you need to log in first.
Paul. - sorry Paul keep forgetting, old age and all that haha
- Potholes! Don't talk to me about Potholes! DDC have
told me that the crater which welcomes us to our front gate each morning does not classify as a pothole. I was told that I could not repair it myself as it was the Queen's Highway, a few years back a truck turned up, a chap jumped out,
shoveled a few lumps of tarmac in, patted it with the back of the spade and shot off, this all took around two minutes. Each time it rains you take your life into your own hands as you could vanish forever into its cavernous depths, I
wondered where our postman went, now I know. Joking apart, the state of all our roads is appalling. - Yes these potholes are a big problem when you drive a car like mine(MG)
i'm forever dodgeing them,but I see half hearted attempts around Dover to fill them so how long will that last.
Barry they are still useing that method. - Yes
Paul, the cars on the seafront are TVR's. Trevor Wilkinson formed TVR Engineering in 1947 and completed his first chassis in 1949.
- The vintage car decorating the
potholes is an 1899 Panhard et Levassor. I must have been standing next to you at some point as I have a very similar photo. - Those pot holes are tiny.. when I get my bum
back into Faversham on Monday I shall take a pic of the one outside my flat.. tis huge!!!
Its been reported 5 times by me and the neighbours and its still not getting anything done!! Its a foot wide and about 4 inches deep!
- Thanks for the info there Ken, will change the copy above re car. Nice car, shame about the potholes!
Jen yes make sure you get a picture of the
monster in question. - 4ft wide and 4 inches deep!!!!that's some bum you've got Jen....lol
- Marek.. a girl can go off someone... especially when they talk about bottom size.. and what you doing looking? (although.. who could miss it.. it IS HUGE!!)
- jen,so its panned out ok then.
- Yes, we need another motor show in Dover soon, very soon.
- What no picture of our DDC Chairman ?
- excellent write up and photos, i must have missed this on the
forum.
susan
no chairman of ddc but councillor and forumite chris precious and his lady wife look very distinguished and statesmanlike in the photos. - Yes,
indeed, a very moving ceremony today, it was a privilege to be there amongst all the veterans who done well standing firm on such a very hot day. - It was
indeed an honour to be invited to join the veterans in this dedication ceremony. If any doubt how hot it was down there, two sea cadets and one of the veterans wives were all overcome by it during the course of the service.
The sea
Sports centre, once again, catered well for the reception and having now seen how quickly and thoroughly the veterans can decimate a buffet you know the Germans never stood a chance. - I heard you were there Chris and looking very smart .
- Here's a tip ... the best way to view the pictures
and features here on the frontpage is to hit the f11 key on your keyboard. it automatically gives you a wider more magazine type view which is more rewarding. Then when finished hit the f11 key again and it goes back to normal. If you
want to go back to normal that is.
Yes a nice picture there of Chris and Stephanie..we always try to vary things a bit picture-wise. For those interested, and I just know millions of you are wondering over your cornflakes who took
what pic. Yours truly took the top shot of the unveiling, took the trumpeter, took the Mayor. ColetteB took the Cllr and Mrs Precious, took the Lord Warden saluting, and took the gathered veterans at the bottom of feature. We obviously
have many more pictures but a selection has to be made leaving some aspects of the event out...cant be helped. - Some great summer pictures there such detail thanks to our guys who seem to have their cameras always on hand,
keep it up always a pleasure to see them. - so true jan, when you see pics like that, one thinks of how we could benefit by an excellent tourist brochure.
the lake
district has pics purely of daffs and bluebells after all. - What fabulous shots they are, well done boys.
- My wife and myself was up at Langton Cliffe last Friday at 0700hrs we was looking after my old boss,s dog for the day, and it was great at that time in the morning and there was a few walking their dogs or just looking at the
port working like it does 24hours aday and you see it all from up there. - I thought you had to pay to access the cliffs now .I used to go up there
when the Hoverport was in Eastern Docks .My parents loved the views .With out a car some of these places are a no go - Stunning !!! well done boys
- Sadly I couldn't get to some of the truly beautiful places without the car, with my old legs. These photos are gorgeous, almost edible (that might be the diet I am on of course...). PAulB, I
have just noticed your handy tip for photo-viewing - it works a treat! Thank you very much. - Great photos there Guys, Well Done, the poppies amongst the flowering flax are
awesome. - Wow!!! how lucky are we having such beauty right on our doorstep, thanks guys, truly great pix.
- Lovely to see, like a snow-field in
Sumer! Beautiful! - Letter just in from the family of the rider involved in the recent seafront motorcycle accident ( see report 108 in All Recent Features).... Many thanks
Mike for the following....
Hi Paul,
My Grandson, Daryll, was the motorcyclist involved in this accident. He has just been discharged from hospital and is in good spirits. He has had steel pins inserted in his femur
and tibia and his ankle was also badly broken. He needed a skin graft which was carried out at East Grinstead.
He has just completed his first year as an apprentice at a local garage but will be unable to resume work for
several months due to the carelessness of a motorist.
We would like to thank all who helped at the scene and called the emergency services. Thanks also to the police and paramedics for their rapid response, skill and care.
Thank you for highlighting the need for drivers to 'Think Bike'.
Regards,
Mike Howland - A very nice gesture from Mike there regarding his
grandson`s motor cycle accident, and I`m sure we`re all glad he`s recovering okay, and without the forum, it would have just passed as another accident. It was good that it was able to be highlighted on here, and hopefully we don`t see
anymore. - indeed great news that he is now on the way to a full recovery.
- Noticed the thread in the
members' club about blogs people have been reading. Mine, which includes various posts about Dover-related stuff, can be found here: rhysdgriffiths (dot) wordpress (dot) com
Please feel free to have a look around.
Rhys. - So glad to hear that the rider of the motorbike accident is doing well, always good to have good news thanks Mike may your grandson continue to do well and as you
say THINK BIKE. - What a idiot of a man to swim in a busy shipping lane, he should be charged for the resources he used !!! Paul deleted password for login would you
please send over to me again!! old age is creeping up fast haha - Yes Ive often wondered Tracey who picks up the tab on all these kinds of rescues. There are often tales of
foolhardy sailors for example who dont act responsibly when putting out to sea and then have to be rescued at no doubt considerable expense. Who pays?
But yes indeed the guy swimming at the port entrance was reckless in the
extreme.
Lol! re password...Im getting a wee bit forgetful myself, now where did I put those details. Will send shortly. - The crew of our lifeboat are on
the ball 24/7 and a good thing they are to ,and all without pay thank God we have men and women who do this,the public owe so much to them all. - i
cannot imagine anyone being quite so daft as to swim so close to the eastern docks.
public donations only finance the lifeboat service.
how about the swimmer donating a months money to them as some sort of
recompence. - Just to let you all know that after the series of bad accidents on the seafront I am asking Cllr Collor a queston at the full council on the 28th
July.Hoping he will update us all on what is being done to stop these accidents. - good stuff john, something has to be done and soon.
it is in castle ward, so nigel is the
best man to deal with it.
personally i would go with speed bumps. - Yes indeed well done John. We did have the initial statement from Nigel C on here which will
be in our All Recent Features section (Copy 109) but it will be very good to get a further push towards some sort of solution, so very well done. - All we need to
do is put back the parking to what it was.But no speed bumps needed, - I`m with Vic on this one. No speed bumps, but get rid of that ridiculous
right angled parking. Reversing out (blindly if there`s a van parked), into a sometimes busy road? What an utter idiotic idea that was! Not to mention two vehicles trying to pass each other when cars are parked either side. - Well said Colin,but I will say that parking on Deal front is the same as Dover in places and it seems to work.
- Re the Charlie feature, I've had mailings from "They Work For You" for a long time. Now and again I would be told about something that Gwyn said.
Barely a week goes by these days with hearing about questions or statements that Charlie has made. He certainly is busy. - Well you all know how I stand
on the sell of the port,already wrote to the Queen and I will be writing again to the PM himself later in the week. - A rather disturbing thing has
happened with Daryll's aftercare. Apart from serious communication problems with William Harvey and East Grinstead hospitals, mainly due to critical management staff being on holiday, it now seems that there is some confusion about his
age status. In hospital he was in adult wards which led to several problems with his Mum's visiting rights. His dressing needs to be changed every five days by a district nurse as he must not travel but we had to take him to his GP
surgery by car as a paediatric nurse was not available this week. So it seems that at 17 you are neither adult nor child but whichever suits the authorities.
His GP practice have promised an investigation. - ?all seems rather confusing mike, 18 is the age for an adult in everything else.
have you been in touch with "pals" at the hospital.
they
usually respond to complaints and queries promptly. - I've tried Howard, but they are on holiday too. An e-mail still remains unanswered!
- charlie boy
its privitisation through the back door,
hope Dover benefits from any sale
can see Dover losing out
but lets see the
plans - Keef yes I think it is privatisation through the back or front door, but the difference being, as I understand it, is that we here in Dover can actually own the thing
this time around through Charlie's plan.
Whether all that is technically do-able though is another story, what with the diverse and complex legalities associated with such a move.
But as Terry says there, Charlie is a very
busy boy...just a few minutes ago he was on TV yet again from Parliament asking a further question on Dover and its Port during Transport Questions.
* *
Mike sorry to hear of the further
difficulties. - PAULB
I do hope charlie succeeds, whether the plan is good for Dover is another thing and will dover people prosper through it very
questionable, but charlies trying so lets see - Good newsy front page, really interesting to hear the latest on Charlie's campaign re the port not to mention the heroics of our
brilliant Dover Lifeboat Crew.
Mike, good to hear from you about your grandson Daryll but sad to hear the difficulties facing him this week, hope you get it sorted. - That Cameron Macsween exclusive can now be read in full at www . thisiskent . co . uk
- thanks for that rhys, a very interesting
piece. - Not as strong as it could have been though.
Roger - Obviously a
"witch hunt" by his bitter and twisted ex-wife together with a disgruntled sacked ex DDC member.....
WHAT has this matter involving shares in my macsween's companies got anything at all to do with the DDC ????
why reck all the
voluntary work done just for a badly informed sensationalised story ?
i hope your "in the gutter" rag will print a humble apology when this matters is cleared up in cameron's favour.
- totally lost me jono.
where does dover district council enter the equation? - Roger its not always
possible to go any stronger, there are legal contraints on all these things and Im sure the article in question was run through the lawyers before seeing the light of
day. - to only slightly misquote Oscar Wilde "Once is unfortunate, twice is careless, six times suggests you may not be a glowing example of how to run a
business" and I might opine makes one a rather poor candidate to lead a Chamber of Commerce - ross
bob has already posted that in the members page thread on the
subject. - Sorry meant chamber of commerce
- Howard didn't see Bob's comment until after my posting
below - And now, as they say, for something completely different....yet more things to do in Dover this weekend, stuff to suit all tastes now showing in the editorial
above...with the added inclusion of the delish Marilyn Munroe. Well I had to jazz up the DDC press releases somehow !lol
.....hit the f11 key on your keyboard for best view of page and best view of Marilyn. Hit it again to return
your page to normal. - Jono
You are obviously in the MacSween camp and know nothing of what he has really done.
I have done my own investigations on
him, following many local business-men's advice and it is all there on the Companies House webv-site - their records tell it all.
Kathy at the Dover Express has done her own investigations, she didn't need mine; what he has done
over a number of years would lead one to think he should not be President of the Chamber of Commerce , or the Director of Business Development.
Look on Companies House web-site, you'll find it all there.
No lies, no libel,
just facts.
Roger - Well I must say this,Well done to the D.D.C. and the helpers for what is looking agreat weekend and free in Dover,Dover is very good at
puting on alot of very good events all the year round and the public must get behind them and support it all,lets hope the weather is good for it all,My wife and myself are booked up for today with a wedding,but will be out about on
Sunday. - should be a good event in pencester today.
hope to meet some fellow members down
there. - Yes indeed Howard very busy in Pencester right now. Just got back. Bumped into the ever roving Colin P there mingling. Bigger crowd than I expected , very
much a family active thing going on...Dover very busy with lots of fun things happening. - must have missed you and colin by seconds paul.
i left about 11.15
am.
incidentally, just noticed in that picture of cameron and barry, the latter has a smug look that suggests he has just seen gordon brown tread in some dog muck. - One thing particularly notable about the statement above from The Chamber on Cameron Macsween is that he clearly has the full support of his colleagues.
- As many people have said; losing 6 companies does not a good Director of Business Development, or a President, make.
There are vast amounts of other people's money lost already, is that not enough ?
Then there are
the share changes in his current company.
I hope the above words are just for "public consumption" and don't actually reflect the true feelings of the Directors of the Chamber of Commerce.
Whether it turns out to be
fraudulent or illegal, surely the facts speak for themselves ?
The Dover Express would not have run this story if they thought there was any libel - you can't be sued for libel, if what you are saying is true - Companies House
don't make mistakes, they just record what has happened - what's been sent to them.
Roger - Im not going to waste my breath on posting about the screen .I
regret very much that Connaught Park is not hosting the film event this year .It was always well supported .I recall when two of our young officers approached me with the idea of showing a film FREE for the residents .The idea was talked
over with the Leader I was present at the meeting .In my role at that time as Community I embraced this idea and fully supported the officers who worked hard to make it a success .It makes me sad to see that something that worked has
been writen off.
I maybe one of the oldies on the council but I have a very young mind . - Sue
I don't know if I'm stepping out of the conservative line on
the
C.O.C. and the present situation.
It's my view that the chamber needs a new board. - i very much doubt that the blues have a line on the chamber of
commerce who would not like any accusation of party political affiliation. - In light of the libel claims, I will be careful on my comments;
ROGER
Clearly from the photio/comments, your very own barryw and all the board are fully behind the C.O.C.
Looks like you a lone voice on this one Roger. Barryw has not
only agreed he's very much saiod your wrong ROGER and
Mr
Mcsweeney has his !00% support.
On the chamber itself, I feel this press release took to long and
should have been released some time ago, sadly now they will never be believed.
We can only judge the C.O.C on results and
although they don't look good on that front, I hope all this untidy mess can be sorted out very soon.
ROGER
I don't know who the libel action is against whether it's the paper or yourself, but as A friend could I humbly
suggest you be careful whsat you say in reference to the C.O.C.
- Regarding the films being shown on the big screen the weekend, whatever they are, I`m sure that the most
die hard tv addict wouldn`t want to spend a day out watching tv, when they could watch it at home. The big screen was a big mistake, and it just goes to show how the BBC is wasting that licence money. I wonder how Dovorian`s will feel
next time the BBC want`s to up the license fee? I say again, make the Market Square a more sociable place for visitor`s to sit down, eat, drink and talk, rather than having 24 hour news blaring in their
ears. - colin
the big screen is financed by the olympic committee nothing to do with the bbc.
personally i find that the screen breathes a little life into market
square. - Then why should the BBC be allowed to keep filling people`s head`s with all their depressing news report`s Howard? I think it` breathe`s death into the
Market Square with all those news report`s. I like to sit and talk, but I don`t want the distraction of someone rambling on about some repetitive news items while I`m trying to have a conversation with someone. Put it somewhere
else. - Apparently Howard, the BBC actually have alot to do with it. They provide the content and manage the screen from what I`ve found out. In other words, they decide what
goes on there. I wonder how much they charge for all that? - there seems to be no sound colin.
i rather like the constant promotions of events in our
district.
market square is not the place for quiet conversations, never has been in the past. - As soon as I hit the Market Square Howard, so does the sound of
a loud tv. Nothing wrong with trying to promote things locally on there, but why do they have news flowing along underneath? As Iv`e said before on here, do tourist`s really want to come and listen about Afghanistan, Iraq, etc? The
Market Square is a wonderful place for conversation`s, turn the tv off and open a cafe`s round it with a continental flavour as someone mentioned on here last year. We`ll have to meet down there for a chat sometime Howard, would be an
interesting conversation mate. - Thanks Keith - I
agree that "least said soonest mended" is usually best and I have been very careful not to say anything that is not true.
In the dictionary and I'm sure in law, it states "a published false statement damaging to a person's
reputation". In other words, telling lies about someone.
I do not think I have published lies about anyone.
Colin - I agree the Market Square should be like an Italian, French or Spanish Piazza, where people can eat and drink
at their leisure.
I don't think the general public would allow it to turn into a haven for drunks.
Careful licensing and careful policing would allow and encourage a great cafe culture, where sensible people really enjoy
relaxing and watching the world go by.
Most things seem to get spoilt by the few, so the many have to go without.
Turning the Market Square as described above was just a part of my many initiatives as Dover Business Support
Manager.
Because I am not involved anymore and because the DBS Manager's role has been downgraded to a part-time one, I have no idea how anything worthwhile can emanate from that role now.
Roger
- Yes I mention the continental approach in the copy above...I should have flagged it up more but will reproduce it here now as the page above will be changing
shortly...
"These events in Market Square wont take off because the basic ingredients for a good and pleasant time are not in place. There are no tables, no chairs, no umbrellas keeping the burning sun off our furrowed brows, no
drinks, no food...this is NOT the way our continental friends do it, look at their squares...packed! Why are we not to be trusted with our Camparis and our chilled Chardonnays on a summer's day in Market Sq? Are we the beating savage
breast/beast of humanity while our continental friends are oh so sophisticated in comparison? PB."
I was on a roll there....lol! - There are tables and
chairs outside of Dickens ,Bar Elle and round the corner in Church StreeT .I donot find it very attractive stumbling over chaps with glasses of Larger in their hands at 9.00 am in the morning
The same can be said of Canterbury
where the masses sit outside of Makdonalds .
Perhaps if our shops were to be decorated with bunting and more live entertainment in the street .
Market Square has been ruined with the presence of the large screen and a boarded
up fountain .When busses used to travel throught the Square it was much better . - ROGER
I do agree with your latest posting on C.O.C. but reading a dictionary is not thre
same as a solicitor looking for blood!!!
So I would humbly suggest you let this go.
On the market square screen/cafe the tables have been outside dickens etc for some time and I have used them, but never witnessed
problems, and certainly a welcome stopping point for many and meeting place, sad realy that some business's are trying to make the effort.
- A couple of years ago we
went to Pollensa on Majorca. There was a beautiful market Square there, surrounded by cafes and bars. During the day people sat there for a coffee or a light lunch in a wonderful atmosphere. In the evening and into the small hours it was
always busy with people dining or just enjoying a drink. Music was playing in the background and we never once saw any trouble there. Nearby was a taxi rank so there was no need to drive if you wanted to drink. It was a magical place to
be where all nations mingled together happily. I have often thought that with the right planning our square could be very similar.I'm sure there are places not dissimilar to Pollensa in this country, so why not in Dover?
With regard
to Rogers comments, he is a very intelligent and wise man who would not publish anything that was libelous so may I (humbly) suggest that he does not need the advice of an ex councillor before saying what he wants to say.
Oh yes -
doesn't the sea front look lovely? First time I've been down for a while and was very pleasantly surprised. - I stand corrected The Cinema Event will be held on August 27Th
at Connaught Park .Alvin @The Chipmunks 2 .
Tickets on sale next month .
Well done DDC - Lovely Jacqui
Although you have CHOSEN to INTERFERE I'm happy to
explain
Roger and I have worked closely together in the past, and although Roger may feel he has said nothing in a libel way, solicitors are paid to find holes, and theres no doubt from the postings that Roger has an axe to
grind.
Take it from me, having worked closely with Roger It was helpful advice which Roger can decide to Ignore if thats his wish.
please don't try to find issues with things that are not there
Just trying to help
Roger and advise
its a matter of take it or leave it advice.
Roger I'm sure is big enough to speak for himself,
and make his own mind up if to take advice or not - Jacqui v Keith, I AM KEEPING OUT OF THIS ONE.
- Thank you both Jacqui and Keith.
I understand that any potentially libellous comments made by me have been
removed from the Forum some time ago.
I am conscious of what I post and have never intended anything to be libellous; if I have accidentally made any libellous statements - about anyone, then I unconditionally
apologise.
Roger - cannot see a problem, nothing has been said that is not in the public
domain. - ROGER
I hope my advice can be taken as it was intended, to help. - Hi,Jacqui,
Good to see you back on site-keep in touch,Steve. - Keith,
I apologise for my comments. Having been out of the circuit for a
while I was not aware of all the facts. I now know why you said what you did and understand fully. I wasn't interfering, just giving my opinion (something you are hot on!)but I do accept that I was wrong. Friends again? ;-)
Vic
- sorry love - no fighting, just a mistake on my part - all friends again now I hope. - To make it clear the cinema event at Connaught is Free.I was indicating the tickets would
become available
Free Free - JACQUI,
I have never said we are NOT friends, just giving Roger sound advice which he can take, or not, all in his
control.
hope you are well
keith - Note for Sue and Keef : guys you can post LIVE on this frontpage as you are members, but just log in first.
There is a
slight delay for members who dont log in.
There is also a slight delay for non members.
But all welcome. - Hey Paul B i did it hahaha logged in all on my
own !!! what lovely cars if only they made them that way still i would buy one!!! - paulb
i know - Great photos
PaulB, many thanks for sharing them with us. Annual motor event in Dover? Agreed, the town should do it. - I think we should have as many events
as we can going on in Dover. - Keith, may-be a free ride too, I sometimes think! A fine collection! Lovely looking cars.
- the town looks stunning with the flowers and the buildings.
a great backdrop for the stunning cars. - The Bucket
and Spade in Ramsgate is always a good one, so why not Dover ? - Thanks for the comments on the cars guys, these classics are always popular...heavens they even
inspired Tracey to log in for the first time. Well done Tracey, youre very welcome. Glad you managed it.
Yes the philosophy or strategy is fairly simple...get the cars to turn up and so will the crowds. Takes a bit of organising
initially with the motoring clubs but once this is in place it could run and run. Not too expensive either. I think our Deputy Mayor Mr Hannent hinted previously that something like this could be possible. An event to get the tourists
turning up rather than passing by would be a winner for the town. - As the great display of pictures above show no matter where you are Dover seafront or
Deauville, these old classic cars always attract attention.
It was a treat to see them arrrive and park in front of such a magnificent hotel. - Sigh…..all those
beautiful cars. Great photos. - Love the picture of the Delahaye PaulB, the only time I got to clap my eyes on this beautiful classic car was in Le Touquet a while back. The
wonderful lines of cars from an age gone by is a wonder to behold, Great Photos. - I`ll never tire of viewing classic cars, and I`m still hoping for another event similar
to that fantastic Rolls Royce weekend we had recently on our sea front. The classic car in that last picture of your`s Paul certainly compliment`s those building`s in the background. - Many lovely old classic cars pass through Dover each June on the way to Le Mans. May be, a Classic Car Dover Show could be organised to coincide with this special event. I love classic cars and Dover is perfect for it.
- Great cars and great photos Paul - good job you didn't leave your camera behind.
Perhaps the Town and District Councils could get together to create a couple
of classic car events each year; everyone loves them and they do bring in the crowds.
Thanks again Paul for sharing them with us - greate indulgence.
Roger - The red car white the white bonnet is a Lea-Francis, a sporting car of the pre war years. Many are still used in historic racing events.
- Re: The security around
the Bugatti Royale
Five of the Six Bugatti Royales (Type 41) were on display in the open in the rain at the Goodwood Festival of Speed in 2007 without any ropes or barriers. It was suggested at the time that the five cars were
worth a total of around $60,000,000 ! (Sixty million dollars) - Thank you for all that Paul
Yes I do have in mind a dover event or two in 2012 and have spoken to RR
who are for it in principal. I am also a member if the Jaguar club and will be talking to them . What it does need is an organisation here to take it on board and Tourism in Dover is undergoing a "structural change"
I am a great
enthusiast so wont let it slip if I can but have rather a lot on at the moment and support is needed. - Evolution ?
DDC Leader Paul Watkins states.``You can envisage
that Councils could merge by evolution and natural conclusion``
Why wait for evolution??
The Coalition Government say the BBC executive are to big,earn to much and their pensions are excessive.We say the DDC
executive are to big,earn to much and their pensions are excessive.The Coalition Government mean to sort out the BBC!!! Who will sort out the DDC and the other three District Councils executive of East Kent??
We need
the majority of the staff of these Councils but not the four sets of their executives costs!!!
Do we need four sets of executives for East Kent?? - Interesting
one there Reg....we may get a response from the man himself although it might be too hot a potato!?
But back to the cars for a moment....
Crikey Ken, didnt realise the Bugatti above was worth soooo much. I was standing
in the shadow of greatness and didnt realise it. Thanks for that info, also thanks re the little red car, hadnt heard of a Lea-Francis before, New one on me. Well done. Will change the copy above before it goes into the
archives.
DavidH..'twould be good if something could be organised.... your right worshipfullness self...thought I'd grovel a bit there with the worshipful stuff. But really it could be a legacy for you to leave behind. Just
think...The David Hannent motor rally! I know you are an enthusiast and thats great. As is Ken there...and thousands would turn up.
Sabine yes a lot of cars pass through on the way to Le Mans. I got some pictures of them recently
myself...would indeed be a good time for a seafront rally. Many stay at the seafront hotels anyway.
Many thanks for all the further comments. - Thanks Paul i
am getting a real Whizz on this now !!! watch out haha - UNITARY OR NOT?????????????????????????
We differ on this but you have to admire REG to continue his battle for
sa unitary authority.
To look a little deeper into his comments;
KCC Chief executive likely to be earning over £150,000
DDCChief executive likely to be earning over £120,000
DTC Clerk likely to be earning over
£40,000
thats just the top officers,
below that you have directors on up to £100,000 then 2 or 3
tiers ogf officers eaning close to that figure.
Imagine, as Reg say the total cost of these 3 councils
total
staffing costs, just in the top tiers!!!!
Although Reg is correct the costs would make a big saving, but sounds like it's over 10 years before any govt will touch the issue again.
My only concern is in South wales
where I watched a district council get eaten up by a unitary council and liocal voices lost, these questions remain unanswered.
Sure they can be overcome.
Don't forget also last time unitaries were discussed in
Kent/Dover
the political parties/non politicals persons all fought there own corners, so it didn't happen.
over to you Reg,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, - you may be right about people looking after themselves keith, the only way is for central government to create unitary authorities.
that would be against the localism agenda
though. - While its true that some high flyers may be getting paid too much, this condensing of the services really basically just means ordinary people are losing
their jobs. Up to 30% of the staff at Dover District Council are facing the exit door.
Im also not sure I believe in this mad political urge to save money at every turn, we have been sold a bit of a pup here. All we get is less of
everything. Less people looking after the system locally, less people of quality in useful jobs, loss of services... frontline and otherwise. Where's the good bit
here...?? - Paulb
The 'GOOD BIT'S' as you put it.
Local authorities all compete to get chief executives (taking this one post, don't forget theres
many others top earners)
and deal with OUR money as though it's monopoly money.
To my way of thinking (and i have no grudge against any individual employee even those getting wages far to high)
Paying someone over
£120,000 I would expect some major results, looking around Dover and three councils, need to review
2 chief executives on over £120,000 and all the other high salaries
at the top tier, time to look at ways of reducing councils,
one should go.
As i say unitary is over 10 years away, and still not convinced it will happen, or decisions will be local - that is a beautiful ship, must pop down today
to see it before it departs. - Such a stunning ship.
- Just spotted in the Dover Mercury that
this is indeed the last visit from The Disney Magic. I knew it was close to the end but now confirmed as the last one by Mercury. - In the Theatre thread in the
members forum, it is said that Snoops is now owened by DDC. Is that information correct? I did notice the new metal sheets which have been put up to stop people breaking in. If it has been bought by DDC why did they do it? I did not
think that the building was included in the original DTIZ plans. - Evolution? Sequel.
Letter to Dover Mercury.
Dear Editor,
Your article last
week``Pay freeze planned as budget cuts loom``and the DDC leader Paul Watkins statement``You can envisage that Councils could merge by evolution and natural conclusion``
I agree-----------Why wait for evolution?
Pauls other
statement``The sooner we start the less painful it is going to be``Once again I agree---------So? - Why evolution ? Can you imagine the disaster if you sack 2/3
of the council employees in East Kent one day and expect them to function just as well (and cheaper) the next day ?
- Yes PW beat me to it with a similar reply there Reg,
but I would guess as PW said, evolution means that you have a natural wastage with regard to job loss. You dont have to suddenly sack vast numbers of the workforce, with the usual severance pay as required by law, its both expensive and
brutal. So...possibly a problem best left to evolution!??
Hi Puzzled as far as I know Snoops is still owned by Wetherspoons although yes one member did say DDC now hold the reins. If anyone knows the definitive answer to this one
let us know. - starting a new 'entry'...looking forward to tomorrows Dover market...(as a trader)having attended the quarterly Dover Town Mayors's Town Centres
Business Forum.. on Thursday..and having met David Foley and Barry Williams from the D.C.C am feeling alot more confident and supported in our quest to make Dover a better place..hope others feel the
same.?! - good to hear from you pandora, hope the watch drops are selling well.
one day i will come across and ask what a watch drop actually
is. - hi Howard.....nice to hear from you too...do, please come see what its all about!
- Pandora
Please do give us an insight into what David Foley is going to do to transform the Town and support the businesses.
They sacked the only person the Town businesses had any respect for and who had the
passion to work seven days a week; they have reduced the Dover Business Support Manager's role to one of part-time.
Why should a business pay the full rate of membership, for part time support and actually, not even get that ?
The only business that I have heard he has visited, has consistently told him she will NOT join up.
We heard the Chamber of Commerce President talk on what he was going to do for Dover and the businesses, on November 24th.
That turned out to be nonsense - the only polite word I can think of.
A change at the top and sincere people installed, who who really care about Dover and local businesses, is the only way forward, the only way that DDCC can make any
progress in at least regaining respect and confidence, both of which are so necessary for them to turn the corner.
Roger - Looks like my message has been
deleted. - Explain Colin...?
- Re the Great Hospital Saga, there was a letter in the Times the other day
that is applicable to Dover. It was a road safety slogan from New Zealand. Altered slightly it could read:-
"Dover - Nice cemetery - No hospital" - Sorry
Paul, I posted a nice comment on Pandora`s comment last night just before Howard, regarding a new entry into the stalls today, but it seems to have disappeared. Nothing important, but I`m certain it went on there. I have to say though, I
could be mistaken. I know you certainly wouldn`t have removed it, so my apologies if I was a bit hasty in the deletion bit. - Sorry to say but this about the Hospital is now all
cut and dry it is staying where it is . I am a member of the East Kent Hospitals University NHS Foundation Trust,s and we have our Annual Public Meeting on the 28September please come to it and put over your views it is at 18800hrs at
the Kent County Cricket Club at Canterbury ,there will be a chance to view a variety of Trust exhibitions with refreshment and you can talk to the Directorates on Key initiatives.
But the Hospital will stay where it is ,I with others
have been saying that it should have beds and a full A@E 24/7 please come and have your say it just might help. - Terry thats a good one... from
cradle straight to the grave with no hospital in between. At least it cuts out the middleman!!
unfortunately
But yes its all gone quiet re the hospital. I was having a discussion with Cllr Jan Tranter the other day as to why
we arent getting our hospital... her take went like this...
"We have three major hospitals in the region, in order for Dover to get a major hospital one of those three, Kent and Canterbury, QEQM Margate, William Harvey Ashford,
one of those would have to either shut or give up a large section of its facilities, and thats not going to happen"
Gordon Cowan, Labour leader, is now saying much the same in the statement above.
Which I guess sums it up.
We're not going to get a major hospital are we? I for one was ready to grab the community hospital in central Dover with both hands, but as with ASDA, it was argued over and we ended up without anyything. Now in a bizarre way Buckland
will stay open. Our previous MP Gwyn Prosser, fought before we had this new option, to try and keep Buckland open all through the years, but without success in the end. Now we have one of life's ironies...its now open by default...and
nobody really wants it anymore. - good to hear from gordon, i thought it was all cut and dried that money was being pumped into buckland to increase services
there.
i doubt whether many people ever thought we would get a full blown general hospital. - If only the good people of Dover and East Kent had again voted
New Labour. All would be well, it seems.
Thirteen years was never going to quite long enough to give the population the health service it needs. 13, unlucky for some.
When, oh when shall these Party-poopers learn that (concerted)
actions speak louder than words?
Yet, these same nay-sayers are still on a good screw with little to do. - PW. For the record.The subject is Do we need four Executive
tiers to run East Kent?
We need the staff who from experience work exremely hard at their jobs together with other delegated chores given to them.
We do not need to cut staff jobs.We need to cut the Executive!That is where a large
amount of expediture is.
Take your policy for sharing services with the other East Kent Councils that one logical step further.Share the Executive!
The message is don`t cut staff jobs cut the Executive. - Gordon was right to table this motion to support the community hospital and argue for something we can have before they withdraw the funding, instead of something we
know we cant have.
It seems we spend time argueing hence the fact Dover gets nothing as always.
So come on Charlie argue for what we can have and lets get on with it. - What rubbish is this man Cowan spouting here? No equipment would need to be scrapped as it could be transferred to the new unit if required. Maybe if this is how he would have Labour run the NHS it is no wonder the service is
in total disarray.
This is just political gamemanship from a beaten and leaderless party and someone who probably has designs on succeeding Gwyn Prosser. - Gordon's original motion, as you know Jan, was for DDC to re-affirm its support for a hospital at the Buckland site.
DDC had never supported
the Buckland site (nor had the EKHT) and in order to get behind the request, the motion was amended to read support for a hospital here, without mentioning any particular
site.
Roger - sid
you accuse gordon of poltical gamesmanship, if so he is not alone.
do you seriously believe that the full blown hospital was ever
anything but a political football?
mr lansley came down years ago and promised us one if elected. - Yes roger I know but my point being argue less and get on
with what we can have, or the alternative will be nothing. - New Hospital for Dover `District.
At the out set of our campaign for a hospital,two and a half years
ago,the number one rule was `Health was above Politics`
The Hospital should not be used as a political football.
Howard.Correction.We want a proper hospital with beds.
In years to come it could become a general hospital If
built in Whitfield.There is no chance of this if it is built on the land locked postage stamp at Buckland without beds .It will be a clinic. - Boys and Girls,
Onthe hospital front, Gordon and Jan are correct, lets at least get summat out of this dismal affair.
We saw all thre different factions around Dover al argueing for different site, which was doomed to
failure.
At the end ogf the day- we need to secure the best possible hospital=l facilities for Dover area
I don't realy care
who achieves it, Tory/labour/lib/
other. - reg
i know what you are saying, however there is no reasonable likelihood of getting anything other than an upgraded buckland hospital.
if the government
miraculously decided to pay for one then every other part of the country would demand the same. - Interesting reading all the comments here re our Hospital Saga, I
can see where Reg Hansell is coming from with the Whitfield site in view to a future 'Proper' Hospital down the line so to speak. Right now I personally would be happy with some Community Hospital of sorts somewhere in Dover. With the
downturn of Bucklands, I for one would be happy to get my back treatment nearer home as presently I have to taxi it (expensive) to Canterbury, Margate or Ashford as I cannot drive when getting said treatment. Wish we could just get on
with some sort of plan! - I do not care where the hospital is so long as we have one of some sort that can provide ALL outpatient requirements.
The trek to Ashford and
to Margate by public transport is awful, Canterbury is bad enough. There should be a direct service if we must go so far from Dover.
With regard to Cllr Cowan's remarks what does he expect to be done in just over two
months. - Jan Higgins
To be fair to Gordon, iv spoken to him today
what hes saying is theres £20million sloshing around
and unless Dover people pull together it
will be lost.
so lets at least grab the £20m - keith
the 20 million smackers is long gone, quite right too.
we were given the money on the proviso of
agreeing a location for the infirmary.
egos took over, not for the first time, and the money is not now available. the best we can hope for now is a fiver for a packet of
plasters.
- You can all come along to the public meeting I have told you about in my last post I will even take 3 in my car and have your say to the right
person about it all. - HOWARD
I'm ever the optimist to get the £20m
which I understand could still be around if we act quickly.
£20m is better than nowt
! - The 20 million is not sloshing around. It was in the 2010/2011 capital budget of the NHS but has been spent on other projects. The NHS hope to find it in the budget for the
next financial year but it is not ring-fenced or put aside.
To try and assure the money is there in the next financial year the project must get to the stage where a site is agreed and work can start - spot on kathy, we did not deserve the money so it was spent on something useful somewher else.
what chance do you think there is of any more money being made available in the next 5
years?
little chance or no chance at all in my view. - howard
Soz but i'm not one to give in that easily if theres even a glimmer of hope to get the £20m
then lets fight to get it. - Keith, as Kathy has made clear, the original £20m has gone, BUT, if we can get our finger extracted and move the project to a stage where the site
is agreed, and work can start, there is a chance of a further tranche being made available. - not worth clutching at straws keith.
picture the
scene at no.11, george and that funny looking bloke with the glasses, george looks at the application from us for free dosh.
george and the other bloke are looking for a reason not to hand it out, they see that we did not want it the
year before.
i doubt they will hand over money to deserving cases let alone ingrates. - Dover has lost out because there are too many 'personalities' out for
their 5 minutes of fame and not a co-ordinated campaign...... - exactly paul, egos and personal agendas have lost us the hospital and countless other things in the
past. - the next election is nearly 5 years away, gordon and charlie have started campaigning very early.
the failure of the hospital was not due to the last
administration as charlie stated, the money was provided, just local infighting that lost it.
the phrase "tough choices" seems to be a way of saying that there will be no money for a hospital from the
government. - No Howard - the last administration failed Dover dismally. Identifying a site and not considering flood risk - oh really..... complete idiots.
- Barry by the last administration,do you mean the Tory District Council who did want the Hospital at Dover,even though Charlie wants it at Whitfield,if we have lost the £20
million it is probably because one side of the Tory Party can't agree with the other side.Result confusion.Cllr Watkins was all for the mid town site and as far as I know still is.Sort em out
Barry. - I notice with regret that Paul is still amending words to prejudice the discussion. No one has ever suggested an "all singing all dancing full blown general hospital"
I have answered this statement many times but there are none so deaf.... - barry
the environment agency declared the mid town site as a flood
risk, despite all the businesses operating from there.
the agency find a reason to stop anything, basically covering their backs. - David if you look at
Charlie's latest statement above he advocates a..and I quote.." a proper hospital". This was the election policy too in all his leaflets. Difficult to decipher what a proper hospital is maybe, but generally people would take it to be
a... ermm... a proper hospital, full blown.
Okay but with no singing and dancing. I concede that one.
- With regard to the mid town site, does
anyone know if that area of town has ever flooded. I would have thought it unlikely. - Hi Jan,Maison Dieu Road floods from the Frith Road Junction and of course there has
been flooding near the Health Centre car park in the past,but this is the 21st Century and I am sure if they wanted to find away round it they could. - I meant 'proper' flooding
not just a very thin layer of water that would not even reach above a small step. - exactly jan, a few shops close in the town every so often as they have to sweep the
water out after a big storm.
hardly a tsunami. - Be interesting to know when the last 'proper' flood was in Dover -not something that drained off in an hour
or two.
Also for example - Vic will know - did the Engineering Works flood with a river running through the site and has it flooded since it was covered over ? - My mother lives in Maison Dieu Road, directly opposite the proposed site, and has been flooded out twice in the last few years. She has raised doorsteps to cover most heavy rain and the water has gone over these and left a
foot of water sloshing around her flat. Both times the flat has required pumping out, a long drying out, redecoration and new flooring. Despite requests neither the landlords nor the water companies have been able to 'come up with
something' to prevent it. And this has only been from rainwater, without the added bonus of the river overflowing. - I suggested a ground floor staff car park with
hospital facilities above . Job done - Sorry you can talk till the cows come home about this site but why?it is not going to happen and thats it, so please move on with
what can be done I have told you come to our meeting in Canterbury and have your say I will take you ,but do not keep on about this site. - The Mid-town flood-risk issue
does need to be resolved, whether the hospital went there or not.
We have discussed this at length many times on here and I appreciate that new members come along who weren't part of that discussion.
Southern Water, the
Environment Agency and KCC all have a responsibility to sort out the underground/river, flooding.
It was scheduled a couple of years ago to be in a couple of years time, so should be imminent, I'd have thought.
I did think
at the time that these bodies need pressuring into bringing this flood-risk relief up the queue.
There's something like 90 (maybe more) properties who are at risk, plus any future Mid-Town development; so this work urgent for all
sorts of reasons.
I don't know how long the flood-mitigating meassures will take, but longer than five minutes, so the sooner they start, the better for everyone - including Chris's Mum.
Roger
- I think if there was a new hospital it should be town based , no one liked the buckland hospital site, i didnt agree with the whitfield idea so the town the all round best
option close to the port as we are the busiest shipping lanes. Also i would like to see a full maternity service in this new hospital , full a&e too. Lives will be lost in the long run if we keep allowing to be taken to margate or
ashford, even simple appointments are now mostly canterbury . These hospitals are over streched as it is . - They could always build the hospital on the DTIZ
site - Talking about floods, could anyone confirm if the hole that appeared on the seafront near the bench shelter, the one which is still cordoned off, came about from
infiltrating sea-water, or, as I thought possible, from underground water coming from the land-side and which cannot get from the promenade into the sea?
- Alexander
Having spoken to the engineers at the works, the hole in the promenade was a result of the corrosion and abrasion of the wall by seawater which allowed wave action to suck material from below the wall causing the
collapse. The current works in place are to provide a new wall and shore up the seafront. - Well Alex I was on that job last year welding the piles up till they put the new ones in
and Nh is right I have done this kind of job for over 40years and it happens alot, the sea rots the base out of the piles over the years and gets in and it all collapse, it happen two times last year and we were very lucky that none of
the public was walking across it when it happen the hole was over 20ft deep . - The government totally sucks. Why is it that if you work for this country and then loose
your job because they went bust, that you are only entitled to job seekers contribution based. Where you dont get anything for free. As if I was entitled to Income based I wouldnt have to pay for perscriptions, dentists, or the
opticians. I feel so angry with this. I might as well get pregnant and get a council house and live on the dole for the rest of my life. At least I would get something back from the council. Or if I was a different colour, well thats a
different story. I think only English people should live in Dover. Its an outrage. This is the worst town in the world. I am disgusted that I live here. But cant move as I am unemployed. And all the foreigners have taken the jobs from
us, and speak their language here. It drives me mad. I hate Dover and I hate the government. - Government Hater,I am very sorry you have lost your job, please tell us
what you done for a living there just might be some one watching that can help you . - good post vic, we are a members club and share information about things.
you
may remember anne posting about her washing machine breaking down this week and i instantly posted the name and number of a reputable chap that fixed mine days before.
problem
solved.
- I wish our District Coucillor, see above, would spend a little more time travelling on public transport .For the past ten weeks bus route 60 has been
subject to a diversen due to gas works being carried out .It took weeks to get a meeting set up between the police ,highways ,ddc gas contractors and of course stagecoach .At last more signs have been put up to stop the near misses
which were accuring on a daily basis .
The bus still has to meet with the large vechicles which are diverted through Hillside .The journey takes up to twenty five minute .Plus the roads need repairing .
Money needs to be
spent in the St Radigunds area .
Ok for a new fangled sea front improvements but everyday travelling can be a nightmare .At 1.20pm on Monday people were standing all the way to the hospital .Pushchairs ,elderly trolleys you name
it we had it .
So time for Cllr Collor to travel on pulic transport .You not only have to talk the talk but walk the walk as well . - The only thing we have learned
about the road situation from the interview with Mr. Collor is a history lesson on past road traffic accidents over the past few years. Not very helpful in my opinion. So the newly painted parking bays known as echelon ( what crazed
middle management clown thought of that name?) have no effect on safety to road users and pedestrians? Well I suggest the designers of these bays actually spend a little while driving, cycling or walking up and down the seafront to
witness the crass stupidity of these angled boxes. They are a step backwards and are designed to cram cars in so that revenue from parking can be increased. The ironic thing is that it is rare for the majority of the bays to be in use
even on a hot summer day which rather negates their installation in the first place.
As a driver, cyclist and pedestrian I can say that travelling on that stretch of road is one of the most uncomfortable experiences in the area.
The perception is of a narrower highway especially when longer vehicles back end stick out onto the carriageway. When the visitor is ready to leave a certain amount of good luck is called upon to reverse out onto the road and although no
accidents have occured thus far that is no reason to suggest that these bays are a success. Other criteria are called upon before that can be said.
Of course add that to the general state of the promenade (broken litter bins, the
terrible litter problem on the prom etc.) and a few hours spent on a sunny day is not the pleasure it once was for many people.
Look it's simple. Paint over the echelon lines and put things back as they were to widen the road and
make things a little more comfortable for us all. Then get a little man to come down to replace the broken litter bins which have no top so the gulls can pinch fast food and spread rubbish everywhere and have a word with the contractors
so that they might at least occasionally pick up the rubbish from the beach. - Thanks Paul for posting Nigel's response what he doesn't tell you is that Birchington and
Cliftonville seafronts are much wider, funny how he should pick on these 2 places as my wife is from Cliftonville and when I met her lived in Birchington.
It is clear by the number of postings about the Seafront, Barton Road/Frith
Road Junction and cycling in the Town that the Portfolio Holder Cllr Collor should as Cllr Nicholas says get out there in the real world. We have problems and we want them sorted, we don't care how he does it, or if he uses his members
allowance, it needs sorting, and asap. - Thanks NH and Vic. What had got me wondering, and which had led to my doubt (now totally cleared up) was what seems to be streams coming
from under the sand at low tide just to the East of the mentioned hole, about ten meters or little more. Are these streams underground water from springs? - Government
Hater, well I certainly understand your predicament, and I too am totally against mass imigration into our Town, fair County and Country. Still, I love Dover, and hope that that what | read in the Daily Mail today, about British girls
being forced into prostitution by gangs of Asians in Yorkshire and everything being systematically covered up by New Labour from the public eyes and ears, doesn't hit our town and County in the future.
It was in fact a Labour MP,
a lady, who in 2003 publicly denounced an existing fact, of British girls being targetted by Asians and lured and forced into prostitution, but at the time she was fiercely attacked with verbal denielas, and a subsequest TV programme on
the issue was cancelled, no doubt by order of the New Labour new-people authorities and lobies, who don't want the British public to know.
For anyone interested, just read todays Daily Mail, and so-by spare me from any coments
of racism. Thanks - JHG, agree, Dover Seafront just doesn't lend itself to this way of parking, much too narrow! ................. someone should just get this sorted
once and for all and admit it was a mistake! - As always the stereo anwser Sue is right some of them that make these decsions should get out into the real world.
Our
seafront is now likened to a caravan park with cars mixed in, when was the last time that anyone of them drove along the front and that does include Nigel, to see if this was the right solution.
So lets hope that if the resurfacing
takes place that this problem will be looked at. - How about "one-way" along the seafront (from East to West).
This would in effect "widen the
road".
Although not, it seem the cause of accidents, the large Camper vans that occupy the seafront and possibly obscure vision. Could these be banned from parking on the seafront. - i would like to see the camper vans banned, most just park up during the day waiting for the cheap fares on the night sailings.
most bring along their own food and
drink so no gain to the town at all. - The style of parking works in a lot of areas, I think Ramsgate seafront used to be one way with similar parking.
Comes
to think of it I think Herne Bay has parking like Dover without any problem probably because the road is narrower and slower - Very interesting comments there all
round and Im sure all the relevent authorities will take them into account. Its clear the new parking on the seafront is not popular at all, people are very nervous driving along there as there is so much potential for things to go
wrong.
Another aspect to it Ive noticed too...just a small point. If you park nose in and you have a long car. The boot is out almost in the oncoming lane. Kids run out of their cars to get stuff from the boot and inevitably onto
the road. I saw one little blonde girl do this last weekend and she nearly gave me heartfailure as I could see traffic approach. Fortunately the traffic was slow and all was well, but...the potential was there.
But I must thank
Nigel for taking the trouble to give us root and branch dialogue there on the situation. - My old chum Nigel has been on the phone informs me he has visited the St
Radigunds Area .The buses seem to be getting through ok now . - i bet he was too frightened not to take action.
- Sue, Nigel may of been to St Radigunds but did he mention the bone rattling ride you have to endure because of the terrible state of the roads in the area. By far the worst is the bit of road by the Crickters pub it is not for
the faint hearted !!! - Sue i totally agree on the terrible state of transport up here in sunny St Rads the local bus service is a nitemare and St Rads has always needed
remodernising but sadly as its classed as a bad area we get left. - that is the worlds second largest crane ship can lift 14000 tonnes.
not a lot of people know
that. - Tracey,Melissa,
Agree with your comments .Getting on at the far end of Lewishasm Road then sitting on the bus for over twenty minutes is not a good
experience .Im trying very hard to get the road surfaces repaired as I said in a previous posting leave the Seafront and do something for a much used road network .
My back suffers somedays .
I shall now email KHS
- Yes Howard it was called into Dover to pickup Barrys Wallet
- excellent one vic!!
susan
the seafront
was all done with central governemnt money, the roads are kent county council, they are making cutbacks so do not hold your breath waiting for any road improvements. - Howard County Members hold a highways budget for improvements ,Nigel would like to spend his on the Sea Front .I think all this money should be put back into the KCC pot then we would get our roads repaired .
This is not
their own money we have paid through our rates. - Well some bright spark has been doing the math, erm calculations, and it turns out that the Gulf oil spill is the equivilant
of pouring less than two litres of oil into the river Thames. Put another way the amount of oil spilled works out to be one part oil to 100,000,000,000 parts water or H2O or dihydrogen monoxide whichever is your favourite name for it.
Unfortunately it seems that this is not an oil or gas drilling platform but might well be a rig to help install offshore wind turbines.
Nice picture by the way. - Not my
wallet, one doesn't carry cash, must be Barry W ;)
Big crane that. - Latest post on my blog, about the troubles at P&O, can be found at rhysdgriffiths dot wordpress
dot com - i think that vic was referring to blue barry, cannot imagine you carrying with you something as vulgar as dosh.
sounds like a shrewd business decision,
saves barry having to hire out guzzlers truck everytime he wants to make a deposit at the bank. - Yes it was blue Barry the boss does not need to carry cash ,his word
is good round the town he just writes out I.O.U. - Please can you tell me does it move under its own power,or is it towed.? I can not see any tugs etc/.
- just spotted the post from rhys referring to his blog, an interesting but also a worrying read for anyone working the
ferries. - Public scaremongering by P&O in order to justify yet more staff cuts. Needed to boost profits of course as they struggle to make a casjh-cow work properly
for themselves.
Maybe a clear-out of senior management would be a good place to start. - Wasnt there some statistic recently that showed
traffic was higher in volume than ever before. And likely to increase ever more. I dont understand how the companies arent doing well. I am suspicious that many companies (not necessarily anyone mentioned in this case) are using this
widespread government notion of the need to cut almost everything as a yardstick for the obvious. The nation is experiencing a kind of cuts plague, with everyone jumping on the notion and using it as a downsize
tool. - Sounds like the start of the clear-out by P&O in the run up to the new bigger ships arriving - they will need less staff with less boats....
- that is right scotchie, first one enters operation in december.
paul, my understanding is the same as yours, every time i go across the ferries are packed out, the
staff in the bars and shops are run off of their feet.
the trucks, cars and coaches seem in abundance.
as far as i can see the tunnel people are undercutting rates so teh ferries have to do the
same. - I thought it was the usual run down of staff that tends to happen after the summer, when ships go for refits etc.
- Love the atmospheric shot of the 'Monster Mover' above, it obviously had a strange hallucinating effect on PaulB......... heavenly
angels.........honestly! - That is one BIG crane. Great pic there PaulB.
- As always, perfect pics from Colin. We
do under-rate our rural side here in Dover - it was one of the factors that drew us when we moved here 12 years ago, among other things. - quite right bern the rural photos from
colin are excellent, would be a great location for a sprawling housing estate. - Within less than a quarter of a mile River opens up to country side .You can go up
Crabble Lane ,Minnis Lane .Chilton Avenue and there you have it wonderful country side .I nearly forgot Cowper Road. - Great pictures of the countryside.
- SUE
An then you have all the hills at western heights walk fotr miles
beautiful countryside
It is the way some people go on talking down Dover .Time to talk up our wonderful District .Wherever you go there is bound to be certain areas that need a lick of paint .Dover District is made up of
many rural areas ,three towns Deal,Sandwich and Dover Dont forget Aylesham .Some parts of Aylesham are very good .Denton Shepherdswell,Wingham etc .
Not all rotten apples .I saw the chap yesterday who threw his bus ticket on the
floor .I will not forget his face .People like him throwing litter makes me sick .The other day I was in Dover quite early not a piece of litter to be seen .I bet by mid day it was a different story .- SUE
Sadly as you say the human race is at faukt for a lot of our woes.
ignorance a sad fact of life.
but hopefully this will
change. - Nice pictures Colin, they remind me of my shreaded wheat lol! Not many people realise that we are surrounded by beautiful countryside in all directions, Kent, the
Garden of England. - SAIPEM 7000 It's going to the "castor" field in Columbia i believe. Holds the record for the vessel with the deepest draught and the biggest single
lift. My back of the fag packet calculation says that it could lift in one go 200,000 people or about 7 times the population of Dover.
I was on P&O Calais to Dover and crossed just aft of it on
Thursday. - thanks for info richard, i was told that it was the second largest crane ship, mind you that is different from being the biggest
lift. - Sounds like the forum drinks
will be fun for the members. Please boys get me a picture of Melissa for us guys as she sounds like my type of girl. Im a fan of hers for sure - sadly stevie, she is spoken
for by mad mark.
not met him but told he is mildly psychotic, cracks walnuts with his eyelids. - Wow thanks Stevie im very flattered and Howard Marks a softy
really. - Thanks Howard , i dont crack any kind of nuts with my eyelids tho , Mels the mad one im quiet and shy , thats why i love her
with all my heart . - MARK
Thats such a lovely comment - the forecast for this afternoon is for sun, not so
good for tomorrow. - My wife and I was down there at 0900hrs till 1400hrs saw afew members down there Roger and his wife,Howard, Colin, Andy and the members of the
London Rd forum,alot of food outlets etc it is very good just like it is each year we are going back soon for the fireworks .The weather is not that bad lots to see and lots to eat so get down there tonight and in the morning
tomorrow. - All bright and cheerful picture`s above Paul and Ian, somewhat different to when I was down there earlier. The difference a blue sky and sunshine
makes. - What a lovely photo of David and his beautiful sister :)
Wish I could have been at the Regatta today. - Ah! Thanks Ian, Just as I thought, you got a better photo than mine! David's sister's name is Kay Hersov and she is a delightful lady. Have just got back from a trip to Le Touquet so I was pleased to make it to the Regatta
today. Was great to see so many forumites enjoying themselves. It was buzzing down there with lots of very interesting stalls. - great photo indeed from ian. our deputy mayor
is resplendent in his chain of office.
a vote of thanks to argos must be the order of the day. - You have to say David looks the part .I have to attend a
function on Thusday however gents it is after six so no grand hats . - Great day at the Regatta today despite the weather - well done to all involved - the firework display was
I believe the best yet for the Regatta so well done to the organisers for putting on such a great show - particularly like the use of the water fireworks which reflected beautifully on the calm sea. - Yes a great day yesterday at the Regatta. It was good to meet everyone down there and Victoria enjoyed helping out at one of the stands.
The photo of David and Kay is lovely Ian - thanks for that. Won't be down at the seafront today as the Hannent clan are getting together with David and Kay at the helm. - We had agreat day on Saturday on the front,I am away at this time in Horly and useing a lap top so can not log into the memberspage to send a post but I will be back in the morning .The fireworks were good and we had a lot of
good food from the stores.V - What an inspiration Jackie Cobell is to all of us! Puts a whole new meaning to 'everything is possible'
Had a great set of photos for
the front page of a number of you forumites enjoying the Regatta but alas our email is down so couldn't get them across to PaulB. C'est la vie! - Colette we may still be
able to get them up in due course under a Regatta Phase II feature.. if it isnt all too delayed. - The man in the photo with Jackie Cobell is her husband and No 1
Fan Dave. - Many thanks for that info Andy, have now amended the copy above.
- Was a real
pleasure to meet such a down to earth lady and a brave one at that, had a lengthy chat and laugh that she had taken the long way round across the Channel.
So good luck to her for all she is doing towards the Huntingtons Disease
Association. - I am new here. I found this forum since I looked for ghd hair straighteners which I heared from a English friend. She told me many good english forums. And
this forum is one of them . I like this forum. There are lots of useful informaiton here.
- Ghd,Glad you found us now please become a member and then you can
post on the members page great to see the Doverforum is going out around the world.You can also email me at anytime victormatcham@yahoo.com or Skpe me,I already use that and talking to family in the USA - bit of bombshell there, barry will be sitting on his own at this rate.
will be interesting to hear alan's side of the story, will be of
great interest to our members. - Well, I am not sure that this news is worthy of a front page entry but that is for others to decide.
My contribution to the
Chamber allowed me to meet some high calibre individuals on the Board and I regret that I cannot continue in that role. The Chamber is and should remain a driving force for change in this area as commercial acumen is often a shortfall in
public life.
Falling on swords does not apply at all to my departure by the way Paul, but I recognise your enthusiasm for poetic license.
Quite rightly, the Chamber took a collective decision to refrain from making public
comment regarding events of the last 4 or 5 months whilst others felt inclined to make public comment, often inaccurately. However, I will be correcting the public record as a private individual in the near future.
My interest and
support for Dover is undiminished despite my business demands elsewhere. I anticipate vigorous and energetic debate on the Forum in the future but will never be drawn into a street fight. Integrity and honesty are in abundance at the
Chamber and although I no longer represent that body, any comments I make will be on the same foundation. - As you can see in the posts on the members page I did bring
Lord Pearson to Dover and he did meet the C/C in the TOWN hall,I have never thank them for turning up that morning so will do it now.It was good for them to meet up with him so Mr Shirley thank you and the C/C for that.We need the C/C
but it does need more support and funding both from the Town and DDC +more members , I would like to join myself but I do not have a business so I would not be much good to them. - Hello Mr Shirley, I've been to Australia, Adelaide. Lovely city and suburbs! You state that you envisage vigorous and energetic debate on the Forum.
Here is one good topic worth debating: the introduction of port-tolls in all British ports - which would include Dover - and the sharing of these revenues among national Treasury, Council, District and Town Councils.
If achieved, and
providing the port-toll were a sufficient and fair sum, Dover's Councils would not need any Government grant to fund their budgets, and would still have a lot more money at disposal than is now the case! The same would aply to all
Councils in Britain with a commercial port.
It would be something like motorway and tunnel tolls in most European countries, which we do not have in Britain. Hence no-one in Europe would complain, as it would be
fair. - That is a rather dramatic headline PaulB from something fairly straightforward and quite above board.
Alan has been a valued and highly professional member
of the Board and his insight, experience and expertese will not easily be replaced. Nevertheless we still have a strong Board of prominent and experienced people.
Good to see that Alan is participating on the forum so his
insights will be shared by a wider range of people in future.
This is my opportunity as well to publicly thank Alan for all that he has done for the Board and for Dover and to wish him well and for great success in the future in
both his personal and business life. - barry
dover forum is a magazine so any new features on the front page have to be embellished to catch public gaze.
we
are a small town so any new story has to be "stretched" to its full worth.
a quick look at the news stands in smiths proves that people like a headline. - Well
there we are...Ive reined the headline in a smidgen but made the letters bigger to balance things out... lol!... so hopefully all sides happy now.
But seriously though it is all more than a tad disappointing and this latest news
is equally disappointing. I was in the audience that night last november when Cameron made that speech of hope. He launched Roger as the new Business Support Manager and illustrated a plan of action that impressed the audience no end. It
all looked very good, very hopeful. The speech can still be found Page 8 of our ALL RECENT FEATURES( in fact there are 2 features on the evening there). The new line up of the Chamber executives was impressive too.
Was chatting
afterwards with the guys in the audience that evening and the response was thus
" at last we seem to have something in place thats going to make a real difference"
Sadly now most of the personnel from the evening in question
have dispersed. - I will find this very difficult to make comment as I am taking the Chamber of Commerce to an Employment Tribunal for non payment of salary from
November 24th. to March 24th. when Alan and Cameron MacSween sacked me - there's no other word for it.
I did not resign over a £9,500 salary - reduced (on a whim ?) from an agreed £24,000 to this £9,500; I was sacked - pure and
simple.
I responded to an advert in the Dover Express (29th. of October)for a Business Support Manager for the Dover District Chamber of Commerce.
I attended an interview on November 6th.
On November 24th. at the
launch of Dover Business Suppport, Cameron Macsween announced to the world that - and I quote:
"David Foley and Alan Shirley interviewed candidates who responded to our advert for this role, and I am very pleased to announce that
a very enthusiastic and able person has been selected - Roger Walkden".
A verbal contract of employment existed between Cameron Macsween and myself - made during many talks during last summer. Alan knew the salary was £24,000 - I
helped to write the DBS Business Plan.
The Business Plan for Dover Business Support, submitted to Dover Town and District Councils, as well as Dover Harbour Board, quite clearly stated a salary of £24,000 pa. Not an intended one
for the future, but for now.
An email from Cameron Macsween to The Town Clerk at Dover Town Council quite clearly states that the salary is £24,000.
There was an expectation from me to receive a salary and an expectation
from the Chamber of Commerce to pay one.
Alan, who I always respected, has now stated that I said I was a volunteer; this is completely and utterly untrue - so untrue I would swear it on my son's life and Jean's.
I have
never said I was a volunteer - never.
I could go on and talk about the evening of my sacking; it would certainly make interesting reading, but for now........
I waited five years for the opportunity to work for Dover and
the businesses here in an official "paid" capacity; I would NOT have resigned over a measly £9,500, especially when there was £19,500 on the table and rest would have so easily been made up to the £24,000 from signing people up to
DBS.
I'm going to stop now as this could cause even more damage to the Chamber and that is not necessary - should not be necessary.
Why does Alan feel he wants to wash the Chamber's dirty linen in public ? In an attempt
to get out of paying me the salary I should have been paid ?
There's is an Employment Tribunal hearing in November and Alan will called as a witness; it would be against his personal and possibly business interests and that of
the Chamber to "kiss and tell" or make up more stories.
I am (putting it mildly) surprised at this.
Roger - Roger
Best of luck with the
Tribunal. I believed (and still do) that you were the right man for the right job. The way you were treated was disgraceful in my humble opinion.
Are you sure you didn't resign to concentrate on your business interests in
Singapore and Sydney....lol. Dover High St must appear very run of the mill in comparison to those exotic famous locations. - I had thought that joining this site
would allow intelligent and quality debate to take place. However, the sarcasm of the last contributor and the comments without foundation are really inappropriate.
I will refrain from commenting again on this matter and let due
process take place. - your choice alan but i have read the posts and see one rather mild tongue in cheek comment, the rest seem acceptable to me.
which of the
comments are without foundation?
wo would all like to hear your side of the story. - Alan
If you can't stand a bit of ribbing you shouldn't be
involved in public service. I wish you well in future ventures. I have family in both of the locations you mentioned in your post....you couldn't take over a large Melton Mowbray pork pie for my sister in law who resides in Singapore?
She's missing them like crazy... - There is still the open option for quality debate, Mr. Shirley. Concerning Dover there is so much to debate.
- His plan I am sorry would not work any money we put in would not have a return in our pocket,and there is not the time to work it all out we are looking at less then
two years before it is sold off,and we are looking at about £1billion or more,the public of Dover would not give up £10 or more to his plan and he went on to say how the rest of the funding could be got but it is all one big "If".I
have alot more to put into this but i am off the Hos/so will be done later. - I appreciate that the meeting last night (Thursday) regarding the
future of DHB - to give its correct title, not the one Mr Goldfield insists on. at DTC is and should get major coverage and be the subject of debate. However, there are other 'gems' that we a losing one fo which is a major access to
our history.
East Kent has a wealth of local history - ours can be traced further back than anywhere else in the County. Dover, as one of the main ports of entry to England for thousands of years, features well. Further, because
our town’s forebears got their act together early, our documented history is second to none. These, together, with supporting arguments justified KCC Archives having a satellite section on the Whitfield Business Park. Indeed, if memory
serves me correct, DDC contributed towards the cost.
Sometime ago KCC decided that the Archives should be housed in a brand new building at Maidstone and to cut cost, the Dover branch had to close.
At Dover, library Local
Studies section is no longer in the hands of librarians who held as much knowledge in their heads as there is in the various cabinets. I hasten to say here, that the present librarians work very hard, are incredibly helpful and show
amazing patience even when confronted with ‘awkward’ punters. Albeit, the emphasis dictated by County is functional such that the atmosphere is not always what it use to be.
In the light of what has happened to the Archive Centre
at Whitfield and the changes at the Dover Local Studies section, one cannot help wondering how long it will be that Dover will have the latter?
Lorraine Sencicle
- good pictures there, great to hear bobby g giving it large.
as you say oceans of statistics are rolled out at such events and town councillors must have been as bemused as the member of the public
present. - We was not bemused in anyway Howard.That might be the case with the council but not members of the public who were there.
- Lorraine, I am just about to edit another article on Dover on Suite 101 in British Columbia, it's about Dover's origins! Dover is probably the oldest settlement in Britain.
You will soon find the article on Suite 101 History UK Irish, title Celtic Dover in kent!
It wil be my sixth article. - It's done! I've noticed that Kent is
associated world-wide to gardening, as most of the Google adverts on the Suite 101 article are about gardens and gardening. Although I wrote about Kent, I didn't nebtion gardens, but evidently the world-wide networks automatically
conect Kent to the Garden of England! - how about a caption competition for the top photo?
i will start things off
vic to chris "it is just a fiver to join my
party"
chris to vic "give me a tenner and i will sign up" - Very Good Howard but it was £2.50p
- Vic is saying - this year the party I am with is.....
- Paul very Good,do you Know something I do not know.?
- Vic to Cllr Chris P.
"If the Town Council give me the £500milion now,
I'll run the port myself and cut out the middlemen!" - Vic to Chris
shake my hands they are clean lol - All are very very good ,and keep them coming,and Paul what you are saying this very true,I could do it to, even with my bad legs and
every pound would go back into the Town. - Vic to Chris do you know this little piggy goes to market? LOL
- Well put Mrs Clements you are good at doing captions but I will tell you later on what I was saying to them both.
- Alexander
Glad you are following my
Dovers Around the World - published in the Dover Mercury and then on the Dover Society web site: www.doversociety.homestead.com
under 'Daughters of Dover, click on star on Home Page
As far as I am aware there are about 80+.
As I try to contact people in the Dover I am researching rather than writing up what is on the net, it is not always easy. ... Will check out your article on:
Suite 101 History UK Irish, title Celtic Dover in Kent - hope others do as
well.
Lorraine - Hello Lorraine. I'll be following the link you supplied tomorrow, which will be my next possible occasion.
To find my article, you can
type Celtic Dover in Kent on Google, and it will come up as the first result.
I am also on the first page of Google, Yahoo and Bing under Dimitri Alexander, and a number of my articles are on the second page of Google under the same
name.
Lorraine, if you are interested in writing for Suite 101, they are looking for writers, and there are many topics to choose from.
If you are interested, just let me know on this front page, and I can explain on the members
blog how it works, and how the articles have to be built up. If you are in Dover, it won't be hard to meet somewhere.
Otherwise you might be able to find out directly from Suite 101 by reading the tutorials. It's a great way to
build up a writer's profile and to promote world-wide one or more topics you are interested in. - Chamber of commerce;
ROGER
With regard to your postings
going to employment tribe. have you got representation?
Is it a full hearing, or a premilimary hearing?
In not sure(having been through many such hearings in m#any different places, not sure how your case will stack up as a
VERBAL agreement of course it will come down the3 man panel.
Will be interesting to see case put forward by the c of c.
We could see your pal barryw giving support to c of c
as its chair, surely he will be called?
- food for thought there keith.
verbal agreement indeed, could be that roger may be shafted here.
i hope that is not the
case. - I'd rather not say too much more at the moment, other than to say that more silly stories are coming out from those directly concerned with this matter and
it may well be widened out.
Hopefully, the truth will out; if not, it won't be just me who suffers.
Roger - Vic to Chris so this is right and the
other is left???? lol - ROGER
I do underrstand Roger, are you represented in any way?
obviously we are not in possession of the paper and facts and how they
are worded.
I would be surpriized if Barryw allowed letters to go out stating Roger would be paid £24,000 knowig they probably couldn't finance it.
Also the verbal agreement not sure how that will stack up, having seen the
c of c replies so far, i can't see the c of c agreeing they made any such verbal agreement, and how can it be proved
will be interested in outcome - Was the job advertised
at 24k? and Roger did say there was emails stating 24k. - Mrs Clements. Good one again and times that does have to pointed out to me.(True)
- Keith - you do
like to stir things up.
You have been told before that due to my personal and business links with Roger I played no part whatsoever in the matters concerning Roger.
It would have been totally inappropriate for me to get
involved in any way. As for your other comments/speculation - that is for and must be left to the tribunal to decide, a process in which I have no role. - BARRYW/ROGER
I have no real concerns over the outcome, only to see fairness across the board.
At the moment it's difficult to judge as we have only Rogers view.
I have attended many such cases myself BAZ
so it';s not a matter of stiring anything up.
Roger's a nice guy, and like in other posts I hope to be able to give some advice.
As I say Iv been there many times myself so if i can help roger i will.
of course as usual Roger
is able to take this advice or ignore it.
that's his choice. - I appreciate your concerns Keith, I really do and I thank you for them, but I do not and have not expected Barry
to become involved in this.
There are things, as in all walks of life, where the oxygen of publicity is not always helpful and this is one such case.
The truth will out and when a line has been drawn under this, the Chamber of
Commerce will come out stronger than they have been for some time.
Roger - Vic please drop the Mrs title i may well be married but i am still an individual and
to my mates im Mel thankyou for being a true gentleman though. - ROGER
Do you have someone going in with you?
keith - keith
it may be best to drop the subject here, we all support roger as he has demonstrated that he is a decent bloke.
any further comments may not be helpful when he goes to the tribunal. - HOWARD
I do appreciate your comments, and i'm sure Roger is prepared, but these hearings can be very intimidating and I just hope Roger is not only fully prepared which
i'm sure he is but also he has someone speaking for him. or guiding him.
ROGER
If you prefer you can reply via my e mail
keith - Ah! indeed, Well Done to Saskia and
Jade, our two local Beauties with Brains aplenty and excellent exam results!!!
Congratulations to all our local girls and boys who sat their exams.
Saskia is now off to Roehampton University to study Criminology Wayhey!
shure will be quiet around the house and Dover too! lol!!!! - very impressive, congratulations to both.
criminology
though!! - Latest on LD Lines found here: tinyurl.com/2we3l4q
- thanks for info
rhys. - Well done girls, you should be so proud of yourselves. Good luck in your future careers and I feel sure you'll both do well whatever you do
xx - Yes Howard, Saskia is interested in joining the police force, she'll be studying the Criminal Justice System, Terrorism, Homicidal Crime, Youth Crime etc.
Hopefully she'll make us feel safer in our beds in the future lol! - Well done to the girls. Also all the other boys and girls in Dover who work hard for their
results.
It is a great pitty that most of the qualified young talent in Dover then are required to move away for a job.
Would be nice to see some quality/high tech business in the White Cliffs Business Park thus keeping
some of our developed talent here in Dover - That is my grandaughter Frances Wood, at the back of the group picture above next to the girl in blue. She has got her place
at uni where she will study to become a teacher. Some of you might also know her from Deal Gym club. - Thats great about your grandaughter Janet, you must be very proud
of her. The other girls in the photo that are not mentioned elsewhere are as follows: back row, Sophie Leaver, Ali Johncock, Saskia and Frances of course, front row middle, Camilla Harvey and Bridie Ann Carr.
What a beautiful baby
Orla is and her Mum Briony is a fantastic Drama teacher. Sadly Judith Carlisle leaves DGGS at the end of this year for pastures new. She starts the New Year in Oxford at an independent school, she will be missed but we wish her all the
best. - Well done to Saskia and all the others a huge relief that its all over, good luck to them all in what ever they are chooseing to do.
- Congratulations to Saskia and all the young people who have done so well, just shows we do have a good share of intelligent young people, not all wanting a wasted life of
babies and benefits.
We need to boost up the skilled employment vacancies as someone else mentioned, so that these talented/gifted/intelligent young people can come back from Uni and work locally.
Well
done.
Roger - Yes its a very real problem in Dover, there are no opportunities for young bright kids as Pat and Roger mention there. As my own little star was
growing up here, just a few years ago when she was about 14 or 15, it suddenly occurred to me that she would leave the town. I didnt know why it had never occurred to me before but it gave me such a depressing shock..the sudden
realisation that she would leave.
I remember bringing it to the attention of Paul Watkins at the time and he was very sympathetic, but the sad fact is that nothing can be done. I asked Charlie recently if there were any plans to
bring jobs but alas it is beyond even the might of an MP.
Everyone hopes for economic recovery and that some of the economic recovery will rub off on Dover. But there were good years previously but it didnt rub off.
So if
you have a child that is an achiever academically you must abandon all hope that she/he will stay. - All my off springs have had to leave Dover for work .Its a
fact of life .The two boys travel to Dartford each day when they are not out of the country as they currently are .This time its America.Daughter has a new job which may mean she can move back to East Kent and travel up to London
.
Some of our schools produce good results .I will not stray into the politics of it all . - correct me if i am wrong but i seem to remember reading that ms carlisle was chucking it in sometime
soon. - Howard yes just a couple of posts below ColetteB refers to it. She..Judith Carlisle, is leaving at the end of the year to take up a top post at an Independent
School in Oxford..after clearly having an excellent tenure here in Dover. Good luck to her. - not sure how i missed that paul, sounds like she has been head
hunted, nor surprising really.
the results from the school have been consistently high. - As far as i'm aware she did a grand job at Boys and Girls
Grammar.
- I think it's fair to say all our schools perform well Sue. Results are
relative.
It's wonderful to see so many young people achieving such great grades. Well done to them all. - some rather sad pictures from peter there, i seem to remember
the town council putting money into the renovation of the pond and fountain about 6 or 7 years ago. - Yes it is sad,I remember pushing the Council with others to mark
the anniversary of the park a couple of years ago,it is not just the pond the whole area is awful,and could do with a spot of TLC. - it is a sad state of affairs for Connought
Park, i remember as a child going tadpoling with my father - fond memory's. Such a shame now. Dover as a whole needs something done before its to late.
Come on people in power its time you stepped up!!! - Blog post on the council catering story can be found here: rhysdgriffiths . wordpress . com
- A sad sight indeed. Only a couple
of years ago the water feature area was renovated and looked wonderful.
We take our grandchildren to the park on a regular basis the last being on Tuesday to use the play facilities which are excellent.
So nice to see a large
number of mums with their children enjoying the play facilities and having picnics..as the park was intended.
The grass on the "flat areas" is well kept together with some attractive flower beds on the first level.
On the
slopes the grass has been cut as paths leaving the remainder of the grass to "go wild", not adverse to this as will encourage wildlife.
The downside is that the toilets were closed, several of the mums complained that why not at
least open them for the duration of the summer holidays. Also again the problem of dog fouling which no one seems to attempt to control. - i don't understand why they are
not open during the six weeks holiday, they are certainly needed during this busy time. - One hundred grand????
It's hardly a giant fountain the likes seen
outside some Las Vegas casino is it? More like a few hundred quid to clear the clogged pipes and tea and biscuits for the volunteers to clean the pond. - It doesn't seem long
ago that the 125th. anniversary of the opening of Connaught Park was celebrated.
I would have thought that £100,000 is a bit steep, I'm sure there are people/companies that would/could do the repairs etc. cheaper.
It's
an important asset that should N0T be allowed to deteriorate further.
Roger - Hi Everyone,
The Council really did tell me the cost of repairing the pond
in Connaught Park would be £100,000. The info came from their horticultural department. I wonder if they would let me get a few quotes for them. Big society and all that.
Peter Hart - Perhaps it is time to ask the local gardening clubs to take over some of the flower beds,displays in local areas if DDC cannot afford to maintain them.
A
challenge cup could be presented for the best displays.
I am sure that Whitfield ,River and Temple Ewell must have a number of people who would enjoy the challenge and the chance for their area to be proclaimed winner.
Who
knows, maybe some younger people would also like to get involved.
I wonder how many remember the Teddy Bears Picnic display at Connaught Park. (Late 50s early 60s) - Connaught park such a lovely area.
so much could b done - It's a sad state of affairs to see
Connaught Park in this condition especially after all the investment, it needs to be rectified now. This is a beautiful asset for the Dover community and could be irretrievably lost for ever if left for much longer. Come on DDC something
MUST be done NOW. - Janet Pott - what an excellant idea, now that is thinking out of the box and good thinking too.
There is also the Community Pay-Back team who
could do all the labour - under supervision, if required.
Peter Hart - good idea too, again, the Community Pay-Back team could do the labour work under guidance.
A resolution was made recently by DDC to use the Pay-Back
teams more than they are currently doing, so this could be a good start.
Someone needs to take the initiative.
I'll write to the Head of Property services offering your
suggestions
Roger - Sorry, I forgot to mention in the previous post, that I had copied the photos and postings and sent them (via email) to Nigel Collor, the
Portfolio Holder for Property and Access at DDC.
I'll let you know what he says.
Roger - good stuff, looking forward to seeing connaught park back to
its original glory - What has happen to all the big fish that was in there to.?
- A sad sight indeed. My
local council (Hackney) learned it's park care lessons the hard way too when local householders came out with buckets to rescue the fish the council had failed to factor-in to their pond draining plans, some years ago. The park outside
my window is now enjoying much needed, Lottery funded, refurbishment after years of neglect.
Perhaps, given that funding is a long term aim, a band of volunteers could help out with these problems in the short term. The coming
Olympics are driving much of our progress here and as they say that there should be national benefits too some cash should be found, but this is bound to take a show of people-power to get things done. Good luck. - all sensible suggestions here, could end up costing only a few thousand with the aid of volunteers and the payback
scheme. - Hi Jan, good to see you still keep an eye on the Forum. Your comment reminded me of an event many, many years ago at BHD. Before the extention to
orthopaedic was built the area had a nice pond and gardens. The League of Friends had an idea to brighten up the area and bought large number of bulbs and plants. They also had some members who were willing to plant them and maintain
the garden.
HOWEVER, The "maintenance staff" got wind of it and threatend to strike if someone else tried to take over their jobs. The fact that they were neither able nor willing to do it themselves was neither here nor
there! The bulbs rotted. - LIKEWISE howard YOU will recall our tidying up of the top of the Folkestone Road.
council were never going to do it, so us volunteers
got on and cleared the brambles so push bikes could get through.
And then that stupid woman coming out complaining cos were doing it.
a nutter if ever i saw one
lol - i remember that day well keith, lindsay our top cop and peter west and missus from the sally army were there.
being a discreet type i would never mention mary as being the one who stirred things
up. - Nigel and DDC are aware of the problem - a leak, but so far they don't know where the leak is.
Keith, you are right, volunteers are often the butt-end of
other people's verbal abuse - no idea why though.
We have a couple of ideas about where to do our first clean-up; Sheila has asked about the top end of Glen Grove, so I'll take a look when I can.
Roger
- good that volunterers gt involved
this particular lady is(was) well known in Dover circles
Since moved to
Folkstone - interesting statement from the harbour board, i still find all this confusing.
the only difference i can see in the plans put forward by charlie and bob is that
if charlie gets his way it will be owned by the people of dover in the main. bob makes no mention of who he would want to buy it.
sadly i have not spoken to anyone that thinks there is the spare money locally to purchase
it.
unite seem to want things to stay as they are but the harbour board say that no investment could be made while it is still a trust port. - Unite union
interesting thought, interesting if so where they expect funding to come from?
Bob I dont think he is really bothered who takes it over. french or whomever.
If charlie boy can make the port a purely LOCAL run concern
I will applaud him, but I suspect it's not realy how he see's it
wont be local as you or I would see it, but be business people that also may have no interest in Dover.
Much more details
required - How's about considering the Eastern and Western Docks as to separate ports?! Eastern Docks should become an integral part of Dover, and revenues should come in, either
as I proposed, to the Councils and State Treasury, or as Charlie Elphicke proposed, through a People's trust, albeit without leasing the port.
The Western Docks should also be an integral part of Dover, but being a separte port, its
financial requirements to be built up should not forfeit Easten Docks in any way.
In this case, Dover could earn from Eastern Docks through incoming revenues without the Western port being a mill-stone dragging both ports under the
sea! - no chance of that alexander, the whole port is one package and will be flogged of as such.
- I
would like to Thank, Colette for being our transfer guide when I arrived in Dover August 18th...She was the friendliest, and nicest person....I just wanted her to know how much I appreciated everything she did for me....Thanks again
Colette and if you are ever in Las Vegas don't forget to let me know...By the way we had a wonderful time on our cruise, hope you drop me a line sometime..Kathy Bender - nice post kathy, colette is friendly and warm despite her aristocratic credentials.
just goes to show that the blue bloods are human like the rest of
us. - Well done Colette - a good Ambassador for Dover.
Thank you Kathy for letting us all know just how good she is - glad you enjoyed your stay in
Dover.
Roger - Well done COLLETTE
Fantastic that as usual you did such a grand job for Dover.
- Good show Colette its always nice when they let you know they appreciate a good Dover welcome.
- One of the best, if not thee best aeriel picture I`ve ever seen
of Dover. Nice one Paul. - I gather from the statements above that profits are at present reinvested in the port and that the creation of shares will boost the capital used to
improve the docks, to the benefit of Britain and the good people of Dover. Which all sounds wonderful.
I take it, too, that the required 10 million pounds will be hard to come by from the local area.
To my mind keeping the docks in
local hands has tremendous benefits for the area and for Britain as a whole. Too much of our hard earned money finds it's way abroad through the sell-off of utilities as it is. It is high time that efforts were made to keep the income
streams from our necessary assets onshore. Surely, those businesses in Britain who use the port of Dover could add cash to the pot to ensure that the proposed PDCT is successful.
The ports talk of ever increasing business in the near
future is the same old hype that has brought this country to it's present sorry-pass. The priority should be that the port remains ours [or in this case more -yours]
I wish you all and CE well in your efforts to achieve this
goal. - Kathy, Wow!!!! I'm bowled over to hear from you and I will certainly get in touch with you very soon. Thank you for your lovely comments, you and your friends
were a delight to look after, wish I could have cruised with you all. Glad to hear you had a great time...... until we meet again, I feel a Vegas trip comimg on!!!!!!
Thanks forumites for all your kind comments,
shucks!!!!!!!!! - Tom, thanks for all that. The Port is ours and
Britain's, but alas, 10 million pounds will not be enough to buy the port, I believe they are asking for anything from 300 million pounds up!
Anyway, I sent my representation to the last gov. and consider this sufficient. The
representations are still legally valid. - the figures being bandied about vary by massive amounts.
until we know the true amount then no credence can be given to
the peoples port idea. - Yes, silly me.
I forgot about the crazy habit of selling-reselling Britain's assets back to those who, in a ;true' Democracy, might
regard themselves as being the owners all along.
I often see on this and that antique programme on TV people bring along an object that has been in the family a long time or has family significance who plump for selling them, often
for small sums. Gone are the stories and connections with their own past to be replaced with a few moments of video of the very objects that could provide concrete evidence of a past being sold.
And all for what? The absence of
threatening letters from their creditors, for the time being? Holiday snaps of the trip the sale afforded them?
Could it be that you cannot eat antiques? That objects from the past cannot keep you warm?
Why not sell your castle; as
a going concern or for scrap? The better to provide for you and your children?
What a 'Big Society' we shall be, relying on the generosity of strangers to see us through the hard times.
What of the Dunkirk-Spirit, if the best we
can do is abandon our assets to their fate?
A liberal con indeed. - Dear Mr. Austin,
Dover's people have repeatedly signed
petitions and made statements through many channels, both by way of individual politicians, representatives of legal organisations (Unions, whatever) and news-paper articles and letters, and much more, to say an almighty No to the port
sell-off. As you may have gathered, all this Democracy is being trampled upon full stop!
Please, Tom, the people have said: No, so now you know exactly who to direct your disgust at, and know that many of us are thinking like you!
What can one say when Democracy is tied hands and feet and trampled upon? - just this minute heard about the privatisation of The Port Of Dover..i'm a Northerner and
i'm outraged!! so how the people of Dover feel i can only imagine. I would like to see all the people of England behind the Dover Community and i for one would happily stick my hand in my Yorkshire pocket to help out. - Tom - it is a total fantasy that business/enterprises/land owned by the State is owned by us.
True public ownership is by purchasing shares in a
company either directly or indirectly through mutual funds. The latter can be via your pension/ISAs/Unit Trusts or old fashioned insurance funds.
The State privatising enterprises is a win-win, we get proper public ownership
through shares and the State get a payment to help reduce the level of government debt, something we all would otherwise end up paying for through sky-high interest and inflation.
Alexander - the people of Dover do not own the
Port right now so whatever you say they have no veto over either this or the previous government selling the Port. Your idea of democracy is frankly nonsense.
Incidentally, as a Dover person born and bred (four generations!) I
am enthusiastic about the selling of the Port as it has served the Town so badly in the past as a trust port. So please do not claim to speak for me.
Now if Charlie's plan goes ahead then we really would get local ownership of
the Port and those of us that buy 'Dover Bonds' will have a say in what happens to it. - Ditto me and a lot of others who are happy with a sale (to the right people
whoever they may be_..... - Our we going to really surrender the Port of Dover to the highest bidder? If this is the case; then 'NO SURRENDER!'.... This smacks of selling the
family silver.
The highest bidder is not necessarily the right choice.
I would suggest that the people of Dover have the right to be given first refusal. But to sell it to 'SOLELY!'money making organisations without
thought to work ethics or working values, is just money grabbing, and NOT! taking in Dovers need for jobs etc.. These people do not look back at the destruction they cause in their policies for making money at ANY! cost.
All
alternative motifs needs to be scrutinised carefully.
- looks like that bbc piece has really hit a chord.
thanks to sam and jules for your
comments. - Barry, I also have generations of Dovorian grandparents, and came to Dover from the Shires, Hampshire. No one in Dover that I know of has thumbed out a
petition to be signed for a bonds or shares company, so where does your proposal come from? Not from Dover's people! You are speaking for yourself and may-be the odd person interested in buying bonds and having a 'share of the the
cake'. It has nothing to do with the benefit of the local comunity, nor of Britain as a Nation. - Sam of Margate, my proposal has been and is that we should have a port-
toll for each vehicle using British commercial ports, and that this toll be equal in all our ports. It would mean that people wouldn't avoid one port to use another, as the toll would be the same, hence would not affect the ferry
operators. The revenues would be shared out among the various local Councils and the national Treasury.
It would be something equivalent to European motorway and tunnel tolls, which bring in billions of pounds (euros Swiss Francs...)
a year to individual European countries.
This view is known on the Forum and has been published in the Dover Mercury. - it is a shame that the Connaught park pond has
been left to dry out, killing the fish and ruining what was a good feature. I remember heading along there when visiting my grandparents, marvelling at the fish, the plants and dipping my feet into the clean water.
Yet, as sadly seems
the way of the modern world, my memories are left to fade away and be replaced by a dry husk, the remains of a former glory that can only give the slightest hint as to what the past used to be like. It's not like this was a long time
ago, as I'm barely into my twenties.
If something has to be done, it looks as though it will have to come from the local community as a lack of public money means it won't get done
otherwise. - The authorities ae aware of it James and are working out what is the best remedy. I hope to have an answer quite soon, which I'll post on the
Forum.
Roger - thanks ROGER
- Thank you Jules Wood for your idea and offer, it will be better that way
then our port being sold off. England should unite in this common cause. - ROGER
I had so many childood/adult good times at connaught
hope it gets back to its
former glory - I hope so too Keith.
Roger - iF i CAN HELP IN any way let me
know
keith - if not the community payback scheme, how about a forum effort?
like in the old days of ian and his river
watch. - Sorry if this may sound a bit harsh, but this is the state that the Councillors see Dover, the people of Dover put their trust into these people, and this is
what we have got. We have a cruse terminal port and all the visitors we could attract and try to keep in the town and this is what we offer. All the Councillors should be ashamed of them selves, but they still get paid and their
pensions - not really accurate lurchio, they get an allowance of about 80 quid a week and doubt whether they get a pension.
having said that our
susan never seems short of money when she needs a new titfer. - Generous Family Howard .I looked after them when they went through University now they look after Mum
.They realise the sacrifices I made .What are holidays ??Downsized my homeover the years No car etc .Twenty three years of service to the Comunity .I enjoy my hats .
- Don't know where you get your information lurchboy.
As soon as the Council (and councillors) were aware of the problem at Connaught Park, they were on to it.
The fish have been taken out, the leak is being looked
for and remedial action decided.
It was decided last year that the Chamber of Commerce would "look after" the Town and businesses with Dover Business Support (sadly that died at the end of March), but it is supposed to be their
responsibility - working with the Town and District Councils and any other bodies, to move the Town forward.
Our Councillor allowance after tax is about £75 or so a week. There is NO pension attached to being a Councillor - not at
DDC.
I don't know where you get your information, maybe it's just a misguided view, but it is so far from the truth - it's scary to think that the majoity of the general public may have this view of us.
Roger
- Getting back to the caption top of page, connaught park could be such an attraction if handled well.
I hope things can be done to make it a nicer place to visit
it
has the potential - I saw the pond in Connaught Park first-hand today whilst walking Fifi, its all the more shocking when you see it in person, such a shame for it to get this
bad. Let us hope that it will be sorted quickly. - barry w-s
sooner the better - Rather sad to think that in
July 08 we celebrated the 125th anniversary of Connaught Park with a day of bands, shows, displays, model boats, tree planting and so on. And here we are just two years later wondering what the heck has happened.
- Lack of money budget cuts etc thats what has happened.It will get worse before it gets better .
- It's
sprung a leak, that's what's happened and it is being worked on to find the leak and fix it.
Roger - ROGER
hOPE that once all the faults found, that we
can return connaught to it's former glory - The story moves from one Connaught to another. Connaught Park to Connaught the cleaner/services group...who many will know have now to
much amazement, as the company was recently considered to be so buoyant, called in the administrators. In other words they are gone bust near as dammit losing 10,000 jobs. The direct link here to Dover is that Connaught provide a lot of
services for Dover District Council. DDC therefore are almost certain to lose money and will suffer a serious services hiccup...as Connaught the company are unable to meet their debts and commitments.
Connaught carry out many
services for the DDC...including public toilet maintenance and bin emptying. I personally witness this taking place along the seafront everyday so no doubt many of you do elsewhere in Dover.
Ah...does anyone remember the days when
this kind of work was done 'in house' by councils ? Better wasnt it...no danger of the company you employ going bust and leaving you high and dry with your bins overflowing and your public loos doing the same thing..ie...overflowing!
This is the biggest corporate collapse since Woolworths. But what future do companies like this have. They are squeezed so tight by Councils looking for low deals on services, that the quoting companies themselves cant make it
pay. They win the contracts but then cant meet them, initially of course always quoting lower prices than Councils themselves could do the work for....but how can they do that? ..that is the question. The answer is they
cant! - This vision has popped into my head of PaulW and NigelC wearing Marigolds and grasping a toilet brush! Connaught also "do" for DHB.
- PAULB
You have hit the nail on the head.
How can any company get into £220m debts
surely summat should have happened before now.
As you say everyone
puts in lower contracts many just trying to undecut everyone else, some subsidising in the hope of getting more contracts? which i presume gets them into debt and when other contracts dont come the debts rise.
but £220m something
wrong there
- connaught do all the cleaning work at the port too.
is there another company big enough to take over this work, or will it be a bunch of smaller
organisations?
i feel sorry for the staff the vast majority on the mimimum wage that pay the price. - CAPTION
Save the cleaning
close them
I did
suggest that before - I'm not involved in procurement for DDC and businesses, but I do know that it is a cut-throat business; I understand that local authorities are legally
bound to take on the cheapest which I have always thought is the wrong principle, as other considerations are also very important.
As Keith said, £220 million is a lot of money to raise, especially if your contracts are not going
to make a profit - profit is not a dirty word.
Mears do the maintenance on most of the (Country's) Council housing stock as well as that of the Housing Associations, maybe they could take the cleaning on board too and keep most
if not all of those employees who will have lost their job with Connaught, in a job.
Roger - But what makes it complete is that even the pond is empty! Not
even there! - 2045 persons unemployed in Dover district.
Toilets etc. need cleaning.
You clean toilet & I'll pay you 'unemployment'
benefit.
Sorted? - What do you mean Connaught have gone bust,if I don't find a toilet open soon I think I will as well.
- The thought of seeing Nigel in Marigolds raised a chuckle, but seriously way back in the old days these jobs were carried out by council workers they were got rid of to make way for contract workers,
Did we really end up any
better off. - Re. Bob Frost's posting. How sad to see a
current member of the teaching profession referring to some children as "drongos".The urban dictionary gives the following definitions; moron, dimwit, loser, idiot etc. Whatever learning challenges a young person may have that kind of
language is totally innapropriate. - try not to take any of bob's comments too seriously carol, it is just his wit.
i understand that he teaches
the brightest "drongos" to do hard sums.
never heard that word until today, i will write it down, memorise it and casually drop it into conversation at dinner parties.
may even give me a bit of "street
cred". - Howard at you posh dinner parties don't use the word too freely it is not very nice and may upset Posh Barry's G and
T - Jeez! PaulB, you'll get me into trouble so you will with the Mighty DDC printing that photo above......... They will have me doing community work next and marigolds are
certainly not my style!!! Lol! - Caption. "Just seen it for myself, these cars parked at right angle`s wasn`t a good
idea". - How amusing that in a week when figures show that Britain fell from joint third to 15th in rankings based on the number of university graduates being produced, the
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development saying that the country's "competitive advantage" had been lost in just eight years, slipping behind Poland, Iceland, Portugal and Slovakia, there are those using such euphemisms
as 'learning challenges'.
Hopefully I am totally wrong, and a generation who are clutching certificates in sports studies and nail technology are about to turn the economy around and pay both Ms Donovan's and my rather
comfortable pensions.
Meantime 'drongo' seems rather innocuous to me! - yes bob, i saw those statistics.
finland were the top ones, what i
found interesting was that the two countries that send their citizens here to do our menial tasks are actually ahead of us.
congrats to the czech and slovak republics. - ROGER
Councils are not Legaly bound to take THE CHEAPEST OFFER
they are duty bound to take the best value for money
which is slightly different - excellent
point keith, there is a difference between the two.
much the same as buying food from a good outlet or just a cheaper one. - "Allo?" "I'm on the train. No,
sorry, I'm on the seafront". "Cripes who is going to clean the seafront and empty the bins?" "Allo? Sorry signal's bad and tells me I'm on some French network. Doh! Must dash just read in the Mail that there are four millions
households with no breadwinner. Blimmin country's going to the dogs."
"Any idea where I can buy a cheap broom and pair of marigolds?" - no problem philip, pop round to
our susan and get the broom, make sure it is back for halloween though. - Not the first time Howard I have been referred to as a Witch
- That was a good line there Howard re Susan and the broom lol!! and I knew our Sue would take it in good spirits.
Up above in the editorial we now have almost a solo
page featuring man about town Nigel C. We pulled Nigel and PaullyW's individual legs yesterday, but now normal sensible service has been resumed in the shape of the latest release from DDC on the Sandwich golf...which brings bags of
money into the area. Does much of this dosh reach Dover I wonder? - good point from nigel, the open is always held in lancashire or scotland.
even next
month's ryder cup is being held in wales. - The area is already benefiting from the Open with those who are working on preparations for the Event spending plenty of
time in the area and using our hotels and restaurants.
- And Sir Roger Manwoods breaks up on 8th July next year because of the Open Golf! Result!!!!
- i hope you enjoy your extended break bob.
- Doh, so much for anonymity!
- you've tried it before bob, not much gets past me.
just goes to show that your intellectual prowess is not always superior to the uneducated proles like me that are
endowed with a gut instinct.
nice try though. - In the bottom caption is it correct that times are so hard our nigel is carrying a macdonalds free meal voucher
in his jacket pocket
lol - Good one Paul, and it is one I have had a few pictures included in the past and I pick up a copy most months.
Last issue I think the cover was
a Stuka over Dover - Good to get recognition from all different kinds of people. Just goes to show this Forum does a good community service to all, with its pictures
and Frontpage stories. - Its nice to be noticed by another editor
especially from such an interesting magazine. On a different subject, I have been approached by a few people from various fields this week who tell me that they have read Doverforum from our early beginnings. It would be good if they
joined our Members Club so they could take part in the various topical debates and postings. - Spotted today in Maison Dieu Road, Nigel doing his gardening. In training
prior to looking after Connaught Park perhaps? - Update: From what I hear
on the Grapevine it's the Housing arm of Connaught that has gone into administration, so Nigel can hang up his marigolds, for now at least. - that means that nigel will
have time now to trim susans bush.
trust he will bring along his black and decker. - Susan may not want her bush trimmed Howard and anyway, it's not black and
he's unlikely to deck her.
Roger - SUE's very quiet on here lately
Is she out there lol - With
regards to the carnival, I along with three other ladies have worked extremely hard to ensure our carnival girls had a parade. Yes it was short but given what we had three weeks it was an improvement.
It makes me extremely mad
that people have commented when they only know snippets of ( in some cases not even correct) information.
Deal have supported us because Deal chairman has been in the game a long time and I have been in carnival 17 years. We have
worked so very hard and what we need is support not constant criticism from people who have never even offered to help.
Time is poor excuse I am a teacher, I have a family and I have still managed to come on board and help.
Dover Town Council are still supporting us as we go forward into a new generation of carnival and next year we will revert back to the original date and having now established some new working relationships, I am hoping it will
be a success.
People need to come forward and help even if its making the tea at meetings!!
With regards to the float it has been banned from the girls use, we did ask if we could use it for carnival day and that was
rejected. Our girls were happy to walk their parade and held their heads high and they smiled the whole route and I was very proud of them all as should Dover! The six girls are absolute credit to our town. - nice set of pictures, the best one for me is the one from colette of the three little mischief makers.
- its a shame when the previous dover carnival assosiation stepped down due to pressure from others.
i under stand that all regalia and float etc do belong to the previous committee and to do with it how they see fit
.
these new people who have taken over will now find how hard it is to organise and run a carnival it dosent mean working for a few months at a time it takes all year to plan such an event .also it costs a great deal and money is
hard to come by in this resesion
so i hope the new committee etc cut the past chairperson some slack and stop the back stabbing - Who banned the float from
the Dover girls use? - louise asks the question, why do people not volunteer to help the carnival.
we have many members that are heavily involved with voluntary work,
the ones that aren't will not be interested in an organisation that seems to be riven with internal politics and feuding.
all one hears from people when discussing the subject is tales of petty
differences. - paul h, Dover:
Who banned the float from the Dover girls use?
NO ONE is the simple answer to this. The Carnival float belongs to DCAL..The
Court members seen yesterday all resigned from DCAL to be with the new association... The New Association does not yet have a float. I also know there was no request made to DCAL for the girls to be able to use the float yesterday
contary to the claim by louise welton - Karen
If that is your name, I actually have the email in front of me asking Mrs Sehmbi if we could in fact use the float, so I
have more than enough proof. However we need not worry as we have already found a new float .
Voice of the Public there has been no backstabbing at all and I have seen every piece of correspondence relating to the matter. The
former chair has decided to resign and that is completely her choice. The former chairs believes there is some vendetta against her and that is actually not the case. If she does not communicate correctly that is not our new committees
fault. The former chair has more pressing matters I expect such as her health and paying back her debts from last year.
You say a carnival takes a year to organise and how right you are, we have already chosen a date for carnival
and selection next year and have a meeting in two weeks to get started. We already have new sponsors coming forward and some support from businesses we have not had dealings with before. I have 17 years worth of carnival experience and
another who is on the new committee has many years of experience in carnival but outside of carnival has some great skills we will need.
I have plenty to say on the matter and over the last few weeks seen a lot I am disgusted with
and we have had the girls completely destroyed but I am choosing not to say anything because we are moving forward with a new fresh association that has the support of the Dover Town Council and Dover District Council and yesterday was
the first day of the new association. All the bad publicity you read about comes from DCAL not us.
- here here karen
im sure if the new association had
approached the old assosiation im sure they would have allowed it to be used but for the new assosiation to just assume they cud use it with out asking is takeing the pee
so no one banned the new dover girls from useing the float
they they resigned to be with new assoc so they had no right to use it ant way
people need to think b 4 they act - message for louise wellton
ok you say
there was an email to mrs sembi then copy and paste this so all can see and her response to your request that way we can all see the truth
wat the hell has her debts to do with any one else talk about slander well lady what goes
around comes around - louise welton
if you say you have a email from mre sembi please copy and paste your request to her and her reply for all to see and as to
let all know about her health and not paying her debts is scrapeing the bottom of the barrel - Her health should come first, should it not, ? I am guessing Karen
is not your actual name but if you are happy to hide that is down to you. Besides which I am not advertising her health when she has advertised that herself.
And it's only slander if it is not true. So is the Dover Express and
the Ramada lying?
I have attached my email address and I will forward the email I sent, I never stated I had a reply but then many emails have gone unanswered that is not a bitchy statement it is fact. As I said this is not the
place for you to be nasty of anything else I had not said anything nasty in my posting. Voice of the Public with regards to your information I would suggest knowing the full story and hearing all sides before commenting, funny how we
could use the float all the time her daughter sat on it. Your life must be extremely sad what with the negative attitude.
We are moving onwards and upwards as an association and we are making new relationships and we will see you
all next year - 'Time is poor excuse I am a teacher'.
Hopefully not of either grammar or
punctuation? - Do we have to read these postings ?If its on the Front page you have to scribe through to find an original topic .I suggest everyone moves on .I was aware
of problems but I have to be guarded .Heres to a good future for The Carnival who ever runs it . - I teach Drama & English actually with an 80% A-C pass rate.
- Thank you Sue xx
- Those three little girls were
delightful and aspiring carnival princesses, lets hope that 'Harmony' reigns and of course Isis and Thea do too at future Dover Carnivals. - nice to see Dover people turn
out on sunday shame about miss Dover with no float did no one have a nice car they could had used " good job it didnt rain - Excellent picture`s, and all that exotic colour,
well worth taking the camera for. The clown up top would make an excellent modern day `testcard` colour image. - Yes lots of colour there Colin...must thank ColetteB for her
sterling effort in trudging around to get the wider picture as it were! All those latest shots are 'just in' from herself.
VIEWING ADVICE: Hit the F11 key on your keyboard to see the spread in proper magazine style. Then to
return to normal hit the F11 key again...simples! - does this mean that some other child will have a chance now that mandi sembis girls wont be taking part every
year ??????? - Christine - next year we hope most of the judges will be independant of carnival and we will look to ask any sponsors and local businesses to get
involved. My view is the girls will be representing the town so therefore there should be some town folk selecting who helps to represent them. We would like to keep some carnival involvement in the judging purely because they know what
to look for from a different view point, because at each carnival our girls attend they are judged for different awards.I am positive we will also be looking at rule changes as well, but this is something that will take time but to have
in place for next year's selection for which a date and venue has been selected. - am i right in thinking that at present that the judges are all part of the carnival
association? - Howard - no judges in DCAL's case are usually made up of carnival folk ( non association), local mayors and as in this year's case former carnival
queens.
I know last year Janice from Aladdin's Cave judged for example.
- its no offence to mandis girls, i once came to dover town hall to watch the
miss dover competion and was absolutely appalled the parents of the participants were squashed in one corner whilst everyone else had reserved tables and yet again it was mandis girls being crowned again , i just think why put the other
poor young girls through it when the judges obviously have an inkling who is going to win - just seems to me the judges have an inkling who will be crowned so
why put the poor young girls through it ! i suppose the old saying is true its not what you know its who you know - DON'T DARE SLAG MY KIDS OFF !!! BOTH MY
GIRLS ENTERED AND LOST MANY TIMES... THAT'S OKAY I GUESS... BUT TO GAIN A PLACE ON THEIR OWN MERIT ISN'T... Good Call Christine
does this mean that some other child will have a chance now that mandi sembis girls wont be
taking part every year ??????? - Once again the carnival correspondence has become very unpleasant. Its always perplexing as to what causes all this but I think we better draw
a line under it now. Its in everyone's best interest. Not least for the girls taking part in the pictures above.
These pictures above show the carnival in good spirits with lots of girls taking part all making a terrific
effort....so lets leave it at that, there is every chance it can get better now too and build on this years opener. - PaulB,
The girls are suberb and we
cannot wait to get things started. As we speak we are already making preparations for the new float and the design is very much something that will represent Dover and I have a dress maker who is ready to do the dresses for the newly
selected court of 2011.
It is all really positive - sounds positive too, wish you all well for the future and will look forward to next years
carnival. - As far as I'm aware the Judges at the Dover Selection Night are unbiased and independent. Mandie's girls obviously were selected on merit.It's not all
about the prettiest entrant but about the childs and sometimes the parents commitment to the role. You may have a beautiful entrant who shows no sign of commitment but is entering purely 'cos her Mum has pushed her
forward.
Mandie has raised a lot of money for charity and has kept kids off the street by showing them the finer things and more caring side to life. No drinking on street corners for these kids only hours of attending charity
do's flogging raffle tickets for some good cause or another and hours of rehearsal.
We should be singing their praises not slagging all ansunder off. - I must
stick up for all the carnival girls who are and have been amazing,everytime I have asked for them to attend they have and they have always done a brilliant job in selling those raffle tickets.It is sad that the carnival wasn't as goood
as it has been and I know how much Mandi and her team have put into it.If we need a restart then it must get going soon,these things take along time to organise.DCA and DCAL will tell you that I never got involved in the arguements in
the past,and I am not getting into that area again,all the carnival courts and helpers should be praised for what they have done and we look forward to many more carnivals,but only if people start
soon. - JOHN
Ever the diplomat lol - John
You are right it does have to happen soon and plans are happening as we
speak, our selection date and venue is already confirmed for 2011 as well as many other things and as soon as we have any more news we will of course publish this .
Marek no one has questioned Mandie's devotion to carnival but
this last year has not been the same and this is mainly down to personal reasons and the girls could not be allowed to suffer, many promises were made and not carried out.
There are a lot of things people don't know behind the
scenes and we are choosing to keep it that way mainly to protect our carnival girls and because we want to continue forward in a positive manner and I believe the steps we are already making demonstrate this. - It must have been a fix ,because I did not get voted best looking man in Dover.
- Hope the carnival
continues to go from strength to strength - And a great open day it was too! These people do a splendid job and were all very approachable and helpful on the day.There was
lots of young kids there asking questions about joining the Police, it was good to see them so enthusiastic about it all. - Great to see the above pictures, recognize all the
faces and just to say what a good job they all do. - great news about the ramada people taking over the old churchill.
i understand that a lot of internal work
needs to be done before reopening.
the new name is suitable too. - Yes very exciting news indeed Howard. The whole seafront will ignite again now that a real
honest to gawd venue is fully lit up and fully operational. If I might offer a bit of advice to the new management, although Im sure they dont need much advice from an amateur...but as a customer I was regular there for years. I felt in
the end they lost some of the traditional soul that made it that bit different, and...important this, I felt they priced themselves out of the general market for drinks and stuff. Prices were too high for locals, prices in the other
hotel at the other end of the seafront are low drinkswise, a bottle of wine for £10! and it gets the customers in.
Good luck to them, very welcome. - I agree
it is great news about Menon and Seelan taking on the Churchill.
They and their staff - you must never forget the value of good staff, have made the Ramada a success, so there's no reason the Dover Marina Hotel won't be a
success.
You are right Howard, there is a lot of internal work needed and PaulB is right that to get local people in for drinks, dining and general socialising, prices must be appropriate.
Most definitely NOT Wetherspoons
philosophy, just good, affordable quality.
Well done Menon and Seelan and I bet Gehan had a hand in it too.
You'll have your work cut out now Trevor !
Roger
- No doubt a massive bank loan helped with the purchase .......
- Carnival is a waste of time and effort,
The Lady WELTON, if you can call her a lady is a waste of space and should be sent out to sea on a dingy leaking air. Utterly useless - phil-t dover
here here well siad if
she was a lady she wudnt have gone abt things they way she did and carnival is not a waste of time it takes dedication,committment and a lot of hard work all through out the year so its not just a 5 min job if people were to get more
involved im sure all carnivals were to get more floats in there parade some people tend to rush it at last minuite and this causes problems i know about this haveing worked in carnival in the past so please all of you out there please
think of the time and effort put in by all carnival committee members that work hard through out the year but also have familys of thier own to look after and also who have jobs to go to but also giveing up their free time to conentrate
on putting on a carnival for the public - and as for louise welton and her newly crowed court the same girls that were in mandie sembis court at d cal they resigned
and were crowend as new court no judges were used so hows that for being biased ... and i aggree with mandie sembi her girls got through on their own merit - phil-t
and voice of the pubic.
from what i have been told ms welton has indeed been working very hard over a long period of time for the carnival.
there is a lot of confidence that the new group will bring back the successful days
of carnival. - I would have more faith in the carnival scene if Welton wasn't involved. She seems to be quite two faced and childish if things don't go her way, i
don't want to say she's vindictive but hey, when the cap fits!
Can't the public vote her out? - Welton out...Welton out....Welton out...!!!!
- I think it is time to stop all this please you are tearing the Carnival apart and you will lose any public support but even more than that you might lose funding from councils or
companys,they will not support it.You must let who is running it now get on with it before it is to late. - This is why people don't get involved in the Carnival,it can
be quite political yet surely the whole point is to promote the town,and choose the girls who will represent the town of Dover,and to teach them how to act like young ladies.I will never have a go at any Carnival Court for what the girls
and adults do.I appeal to all those involved to try and work together for the sake of the girls and the Town.Although having an extremely busy life if there is anything I can do to make this happen then I am available.who ever runs the
Dover Carnival next year will have my support,and if it is possible can we have it back in July as I got married on carnival day and it is the only way I remember my anniversary! - I Don't Know You Phil T, But I Will Only Say This... A Few Days Ago 2 Children Were Verbally Attacked Indirectly On Here, And As They Were My Children I Felt That It Shouldn't Happen... There Have Been Further Very Vicious
And Malicious Attacks On The Same 2 Children And Myself Since Then, Not Connected With This Forum In Any Way Which I Will Not Go Into As The Matter Has Been Dealt With.
Regardless Of Your Personal Thoughts On Mrs Welton It Serves
No Purpose To Vent It On A Public Forum.. Perhaps Direct Communication Would Be Better And Maybe Explain Why You Feel So Strongly... Although You Are Entitled To An Opinion.. It Only Makes You Look The Foolish One By Putting Things On
Here. I Am Sure Mrs Welton Would Be Happy To Discuss Your Concerns Via E-mail Which I Think She Did Put On Here Not Many Days Ago - As I said before I dont think we require
any more posts about the carnival as very few of them are of a pleasant nature. We dont reguire any more attacks on Louise Welton from anonymous posters. I dont think either that there have been any further mentions of Mandie's kids
after we asked posts of this type not to continue some days ago.
JHG's post just below is very good and we would hope people will take some inspiration from
that. - So glad to see that finally we know that the hotel, is to be bought back to life under a new name.
Very much looking foreward to paying it a visit when
it reopens. - My only thought is that it would have been nice to revert to the old name that was synonymous with Dover, i.e. White Cliffs Hotel. It was known the world
over. - I quite agree Terry .
- Phil-T and Voice of Dover you are both hiding behing a pc screen at
least I can be upfront and admit who I am and what I am posting about.Let me make one thing quite clear I am a rarity in carnival as I have served 17 years in carnival and that is with all the politics and I am still supporting
it.
Half of your comments are of a slanderous nature. We have a solicitor serving on our new committee and will be extremely pleased to hear your comments. If you wish to ask question about what I have supposedly done then
please do email me. For people who do NOT know me, you have an awful lot to say about nothing. My email is attached and please feel free to address your comments there and you will hear my side of the story. I am quite happy to even
produce a piece for the forum so that everyone can see my side. I have even given that opportunity to Mrs Sehmbi someone who was considered a friend for 10 years.
On a positive note the carnival association has now chosen a date
for selection and the carnival next year and for JHG it has reverted back to it's original weekend in July so will help in helping with your memory. - I don't think they could have used the old name even if they had wanted to as there is a hotel in st margarets with that name . I am glad this
beautiful building has been put in good hands and look forward to seeing the doors open to the public again soon. - Didn't know about St Margarets Michelle (I don't
get out much!) however I would have thought that the original would have had "prior art" as it's known so could have retained it albeit in posiibly a slightly revised name i.e. White Cliffs Hotel 2010 Ltd. Whatever it's called,
good luck to it. - ISN'T THERE A WHITE CLIFFS HOTEL ALREADY EXISTING IN DOVER??
I think it is great for employment and regeneration though - On the carnival;
I'm ever so confused, so hopefully with a new committee some one can help;
We still have TWO carnival groups in Dover, which realy makes a mockery of
whole thing in my eyes.
I have no idea what the problems are between the newly formed group and the outgoing group or individuals that recently resigned.
And realy I don't want to know.
I just hope with a new
committee will look at the issue of having 2 carnival groups in Dover.
Also that the other group also has town council backing(so they say)and indies part of there group.
So not sure what effect that will have on this new
group.
I wonder if the town councils press release that they support the new group, does that mean they DON'T support the second group.
Does get a little confusing - Keith
Can only speak about the comments I received with reference to support and also the Mayors comments in the Dover Mercury.
The fac ist that the new association is carrying the town crest - Great news about the Churchill and I love the new name. I wish the Ramada team every success, I'm sure they will do a fine job just as they have
done up in Whitfield. Looking forward to the return of our lovely seafront hotel. - Amazing to find that we cant give money away. Roll Up! Roll up! please see top story in
editorial above. Money is available for your project due to other projects collapsing and pulling out. Im sure for example the carnival could qualify or at least be in with a shout...what with not having a float this year and
whathaveyou.
Money is available. Cant hurt to ask. - Im not sure why you have chosen to put a photo of Cllr Collor re the Community Grants .THis funding is
made up by DDC as well .Each Councillors contubution albeit Tax payers money is £1000 Two councillors for the River Ward £2000.Im Chairman of the Dover West Neighbour Hood Forum and grants were allocated to projects which took up
our share .Please understand this is a joint venture with KCC and DDC Most inportantly these grants are from taxes you pay .It does not come out of mine or Cllr Collors bank account . - probably two reasons susan, paul has a a pic on file of your nigel ready for use. he is also a county and district councillor which goes along with your point about it being
jointly funded. - Yes and perhaps more importantly I actually had the information just through from the man himself, Nigel, telling me the fund was undersubscribed due
to some projects falling through, so there is money available. The quote used is from Nigels email. So I used the quote to give it the added human touch.
But the real message is...there is money available for Dover. Dont let this
money slip away and become unused. We know the town can use every bit of financial help. - Paul, Howard you miss the point completely .Im sure we have some photos
of Roger Walkden ,Jan Tranter, Gordon Cowan to name a few .Not me Im Dover West . - or me!
- SUE;
Whilst no great fan of OUR NIGEL paulb is trying to make a point of getting people to put in for grants.
I fully understand nigel is given to much publicity when others are involved but i think the -- issue to be more important to
get people to apply - All i will say on
the subject I was sent a load of leaflets advertising how to apply for grants and I made sure they were displayed and given to the right people . - thanks for that
susan, do you see yourself and nigel getting back together again?
i have consulted the expert in matters of the heart and jeremy kyle says he can arrange a reconciliation on screen one
morning. - and imagine howard all the witness's that could be called by both sides to appear
lol - Howard I love your humour .Debating politics is not my idea of Pillow talk .
- i have to hand it to you susan, you always take my comments in the right
spirit. - " Among the first to go will be Dover Museum" says Labour Leader Gordon Cowan in the editorial above. Gordon is talking about the upcoming cuts as
proposed by the local Conservative administration. Now that would be catastrophic ! to lose our Museum....and that's just the beginning by the looks of it. I'm sure the Conservatives will wish to
respond. - I cannot take anything the Labour party say on finance seriously. After all cuts are only necessary because Labour destroyed the economy. Locally,
the last time Labour were in power at DDC, they messed up the local finances too (in the 'good' times) and went into pannic mode over the need for cuts.
If they want any kind of credability as an opposition then they should not
just be complaining they should provide their alternative which would have to be a combination of:
1/ Increased charges for services
2/ Their own cut proposals and
3/ A Council Tax increase that will be within capping limits and
therefore legal.
These are the only choices available. The real debate can only be what is included in the mix and therefore we need to see their ideas to contrast them. - barry
rubbishing the oppisition on the council is not an answer.
do you honestly believe it is necessary to close our museum or other leisure services?
you will find very few agreeing with you. - I have been busy on the telephone this morning so only just read the forum .Im the Lead Member for the Musuem
.Cllr Cowan is stirring .The debate has not been held .I maybe Vice Chairman but i Have not lost my ability to speak .I will defend what I believe in .dont speculate leave it for the debate . - Sue
Glad you will be looking after our museum.
please dont let it close
- Stephen ,
Please
send in a letter to DDC with support of Musuem - Howard - I do not like the idea but there have to be alternatives offered.
I have not seen the proposals or seen the
budget and am not fully aware of the constraints. Labour will have that information and are in a position to be a serious and constructive opposition and to offer alternatives. If they do not offer alternative fee rise/tax rises
and/or cuts then they cannot be taken seriously.
The council has to work with what it is. Saying no to everything is not constructive, the problem must be dealt with. If the council does not have funds where will additional
funds and/or cuts come from? Money cannot be whistled up from thin air.
Opposition is easy - making the choices is difficult. - Nothing is safe, but nothing is
decided, DDC has had to draw up the options and prepare for anything between 25%-40% cuts in their government funding, but nothing will really be known until 20th October......
- But cuts are on the way, exactly what Mr Cowan is warning everyone of.
- barry
the "tin" items i have no
problem with cutting.
the bronze "cctv" chop immediately no-one seems to act on what they see or nobody is watching.
i have not seen the full list but the museum is sacrosanct, caters for locals, tourists and schools from
all over kent.
why not charge us locals for admission and raise admission charges, it is still good value for money at a fiver. - Ashford has been through a large
consulation with the public with quite a lot of response to judge the areas where they see changes/savings should be made, and with views from the Members and Officers built a possible 'hit list'....
I don't know if Dover has
done such a thing ? - Keith - everyone knows cuts are coming - they are inevitable. The big question is what alternatives will Labour offer to provide constructive opposition or
will they just carp on anti cuts pointlessly without serious engagement? - It is quite possible that the museum will go the same way as the Old Town Gaol which is a
shame. Perhaps the manned hours on the CCTV could be cut back. I believe that it is unstaffed for 3 hours overnight, this could be extended.
While on the subject I note that KCC has installed traffic monitoring cameras at Cherry
Tree and Buckland Bridge traffic lights. Interesting. - ...............anyone spotted any others in Dover?
- PAULB
Short answer is NO - Therer are no proposals to close the Dover Museum.Absolute rubbish.
As for tourism and
toilets if Gordon Cowan stopped blocking progress at DTC then perhaps Dover would move forward.
The public told DTC to get on and sort it last January. that was last years budget. We re-opened toilets in good faith. To date
nothing has transpired and we have moved into another financial year. The public are being charged for sums that are unallocated to budgets .
David H. and others have done their best to co-operate, regretably Gordon Cowan is the
block,whether publicly or behind the scenes.
Terry , thank you on CCTV, that is on the agenda and discussion have taken place with Kent Police.
DDCwebsite will pick up comments. An email shot to those we hold info on and
will ask for comments. We briefed the press and they have covered the reports and options accurately. We will discuss with Towns and Parishes early in October and are actively involved with DDC trade unions on employment
issues.
Watty
- great news paul, thanks for that info.
have you considered my idea of charging more for admission and stopping the free
bit for the likes of us? - i'V just spoken to Gordon, who tells me that a report was asked for of the District council by the town council as soon as the toilets
issue was known and the Town council recieved the report only this week.
Lots more details than those detailed were asked for, but not sent.
The town council asked if the refurbishment costs would be met by the District as
they do in Sandwich, but this was not answered.
On the question of cuts they are on the way, so never say never.
Gordon would also like it known that at the District council Tory Fred Scales called gordon scaremongering
when gordn announced up to 30 jobs to go at District, yet the chief executive in local paper last week admitted 30 jobs will go, so gordon says he only reported what was happening. - it seems to me that the town and district councils seem more intent on getting one over on the other than putting their heads together and working for the common good.
i hope that it is not because one council is mostly
red and the other mostly blue. - HOWARD
All i can tell you, you dont agree to something without first having all the information.
Please can we clear up
the other point, labour is the majority party on Town council, but there are a number of indies and a tory.
Gordon can't make this decision alone.
And some so called labour cllrs have shown they dont aways support what the
group may put forward.
At the end of the day gordon is one of eighteen cllrs.
- That does seem the way Howard - if the Blues said that grass was green, the Reds will
argue that it isn't !!
Hard times ahead so stop being childish and work together to make it easier..... - paul'
I can only assume you didnt read my
postings - keith
i think paul is thinking along my lines, forget the party political posturing, it is all irrelevant to the problems facing our town and
district.
the issue is not about scoring points but about working together to hold things together in the face of funds being withdrawn. - Paul (Deal)
Totally agree that hard times ahead and as you say if one says grass is green the other will say its pink. All need to pull together and resolve the outstanding issues. It is my understanding that other Town and Parish Councils
within the district have resolved the question of toilets with DDC.
As far as tourism/ museum. We are so fortunate that here in Dover we have the best natural assets yet seem to ignore the fact that the third most important
"export earner" for the UK is tourism. That after "Chemicals" and "Financial Services".We really need to use our natrual resources to the best advantage.
If I recall it was Mr Cowan who introduced the near 30% precept
increase at DTC a couple of years ago which many Dover residents have not forgotten. - HOWARD;
I thought I had replied to that but will again try.
There is no
posturing as you call it from the town council
It appears when collor decided to close the toilets, the town council asked for all the costs associated with taking over the toilets, and other details.
Wouldn't say that was
posturing, at the end of the day the town councils pre cept will pobably rise if they go this route, so they need the costs, reasonable i think.
Gordon tells me this was asked for all that time ago.
and this is in reply to p
watkins inaccurate description of events.
Gordon like all Dovorians is hopeful this issue can be resolved earlier rather than later - pat
with all due respect you
have just dragged party politics and personal stuff into the equation.
i have suggested many times on this forum that the best brains must be brought in to help solve the district's problems.
all this done was get a load
of red and blue ripostes all backing into their corners. - MY ADVICE'
get the paperwork needed to the town council with all the facts/financial
implications
and im sure this will move forward - Howard
Sorry if you see it this way but no different to the comment made by Paul.
At the end of the day it does
seem a political stance that I would greatly like to see two councils working for a common objective.
I raise the point re the precept at DTC as so many people at the time could not see what the high increase was for. All I am
saying is that Mr Cowan was responsible for this increase (If he was not and I am wrong then I openly apologise). - we will have to agree to disagree pat, you may well
be right about comments made.
my point is that dover is in a wartime secenario economically and just like in the real last war party lines were forgotten and everyone pulled together for the common good.
i have a lot of
respect for gordon and paul the fuhrer but have no time for the petty politics. - Can I for the third time try to get across to those postings on the Town
council.
When the pre cept came into being there are 18 councillors
Labour, Indy, and a Tory.
Im not aware of any cllrs objecting to this rise, in fact it was supported, If I'm correct I don't think this was a GORDON
Idea, it was coming from other quarters.
I will try to clarify this further but maybe Chris Precious and/or Dave Hannent or Jan Tranter can update us on this decision and how it was arrived
at. - I have no time for petty politics Howard.
You have published the press statements. I have given you a reply and reasons why progress is blocked in some
areas.
Letters to the DTC say the same without naming the individual/s, emails copied to me say the same.
This is a political game and the opening salvo from the above for May 2011 elections and any intervening by-
elections which may occur.
Know the personalities and you will arrive at the reasons.
As for Keith , well he was esounced with GC on Monday at his Whitfield office.
No doubt plotting his future political career
moves.
Are you still a Plastic policemen Keith?
I'm happy to move out of the Forum and leave it open to misinformation.
This is not petty politics, it is your services and your money.
There is a
"godfather" personality effect in local Dover Labour politics.
It could be statesmanlike and to be fair on occasions can be but in the main is wrecking.
Watty
- Sadly some people only post half truths .I will only say its nine months ago since the toilet debate started .If information as stated was not forthcoming for goodness
sake was it beyond the wit of man to take a trip to Whitfield to obtain this .There are buses going there every few minutes
.There is such a thing as emails and telephones .
We wponder why the public lose faith in local
government .I f I was a Town Councillor or indeed a DDC Councillor representing Dover I would have obtained that information long ago .
Stop the stirring and do the job we are elected to do - paul
try to see it from the viewpoint of a member of the public reading this forum.
i am not pointing the finger of blame at anyone in particular just
concerned that party stuff is playing too big a part in how the district is run.
lines 4 through to 7 in your post prove my point about petty politics i feel. - ALL;
I feel I need to reply to Mr Watkins and make a number of things clear.
1; tO CLEAR up an misunderstanding between the two councils
if paulw sent the docs asked for this whole issue would move
on
So maybe thats the way forward.
2; As other PCSO's read this forum but dont contribute to the
forum I will leave them to decide if they feel paul w comments
is worthy of them, I find them distasteful, but
there you go
I will leave it at that.
3; On the issue of last Monday, I was only in the public gallery
to listen to one item, I left directly after and let me be clear
on this forum I HAVE NO INTENTION OF
RETURNING TO
THE COUNCIL.
On the other issue I'v again spoken to Gordon ref the pre cept
and the 30% increase and he tells me he opposed the incrrease
put forward by l young, and made it c;ear he was opposed
to
the increase,
He also made it a committment to have a 0% increase the following year, and found other monies for tourism etc.
I undrstand that D Hannant also joined gordon in opposing this increase.
So lets put
the blame in the correct place.
And get our facts right
then we can all move forward - keith
you have reignited the debate over the khasis.
surely a 30%
rise in precept woudl be to cover the costs of the town council taking over responsibility of running them?
the isuue seems to run and run, it must have been back in january that the row over them started.
surely 8 months is enough
time to get things agreed?
i think paul's comment on the p.c.s.o's was just a throw away line, no malice in my view. - Howard I cannot see how the Plastic
Policeman line from Paul W is anything other than a cheap shot at Keith in particular and PCSO's in general. Whatever your views are on Policing the PCO's are honest hard working people who do not deserve insults from a prominent local
politician! - i understand your point martin, i am a great supporter of the community back up people, however paul and keith continually banter with each other and the jibe
would have been aimed at keith only. - Getting involved with the big hitters Paul Watkins and Gordon Cowan here is some of the report made by the Cabinet
recently,make your own mind up.
The propsed standards of service delivery.
Gold,Silver,Bronze and Tin.
Bronze includes Dover Town Hall,Dover Leisure Centre,Tides,Walmer Paddling Pool,Tourism and Museum and CCTV.
Here is
the wording for Bronze.
Those services that would impact on the Council if lost but would be sacrificed or severely reduced in standards if the CSR dictates(these will see a lowering of service levels)These are for 25% reduction by
the Goverment,if they are 33% or 40% the levels will be increased.It is also to realise that the former Goverment has given DDC £8.3 million and this was spent on various things like improvements to the Housing stock Connaught Park play
area £150k on the Bleriot Memorial and interestingly £102k on improvements to Sandwich Quay Public Toilets which were then given to Sandwich Town Council this ties in with the other thread about why Dover Town Council and DDC are
possibly at loggerheads over Dover's Public Toilets(I am not a Town Councillor) so I can only assume that.
We have all seen what happens to Childrens play areas when the equipment has got old or dangerous it is taken away,never
replaced and when the play area is not used because it has no or little equipment in it,we hear it is not being used so lets cut it.This could happen to the above services,by reducing hours,staff,days of opening the numbers fall off and
they say well it isn't being used as much,the the next proposal is shut it.Now make up your mind,it is not earlier electioneering although you can bet these cuts will come in after May's elections not before you have a chance to
vote,don't ever tell the full story when you are in power because people wont vote for you,when they have elected you,bring in the bad news. - It is not often you will find me
supporting Gordon's brand of "party politics first, town and councils last" but on some things he is correct. As Paul Watkins well knows the only information forthcoming from DDC is that which supports their prefered option of giving
them more money and letting them decide what to do with it. As DTC are the ones being asked to take on services it is our duty to get the best deal for the town as is possible and this requires all the available information, and for it
to be freely provided by DDC. The last thing we need is to have both sides playing politics, these are public services and the councils responsible need to be getting the best deals for the electorate regardless of how they hope to
stand after next years elections. - The comments on this page have proved one thing to me, politicians of all colours just can't resist point scoring against their
opponents. We get the usual I'm right, you're wrong and their version of the truth. Reading these posts I am no wiser than before.
No wonder Joe Public has little time for politics and politicians. - re the news release from paul, i belive the kent gateway project is either having funding cuts, is this new partnership a way of
joining up kent and essex into one project?
makes
financial sense if this is the case. - Technical officers at Dover District Council are unaware of any further information required by Dover TC to stop make making a
decision on Dover's toilets. If they produce the letters/emails of outstanding information perhaps the subterfuge can stop.
In the meantime the merry go round of decision avoidance continues.
- HOWARD;
I'm happy to take any comments on the chin from paulw as its his way when losing a debate.
I think if the comment was a throw a way one and personal to
me then he should apologise to all other PCSO's as he clearly indicated by the term plastic policemen his lack of support for them.
on the issue of the town council I'm pleased at long last we have some voice of reason from
Chris Precious, instead of a continued attack on Gordon, and lots of facts in the attack not even being correct.
On the Counties working together I applaud Paulw if this is pulled off.
All Iv tried (and will continue to) do
is to get the 2 interested bodies around the table to find solutions, at the same time the facts needed to be in place.
- I think Mr Watkins is doing his very best at this
time. - If normal methods fail to get DTC the answers they seek, I would have thought recourse to the FOI Act would do the trick.
This incident says more to me
about how the Labour controlled DTC run what little affairs they are trusted with. - if it is the horrid reds that are ruining things why are
two prominent independents supporting them? - Taking on the toilets is a huge financial commitment, so I,m sure people will undestand that as Chris has said in his
post we have to do what is best for the public of this town.
And we will go to the public for their veiws it is not a Question of party politics, we as a town council will be spending public money so we have to be seen to be doing our
best and I think you will find that all of the councillors agree. - So whats the question then Jan?
Why can't you ask now?
Surely you had a public
meeting in January and the public told you to get on with it.
- good point from paul the fuhrer, if the d.d.c. officers are unaware of any outstanding
questions, then an e mail sent tonight ready for the technical people to look at first thing in the morning could bring this to a swift conclusion. - As Jan Tranter
says and chris precioius agrees this is an all party issue(sorry sid ) nice try tho sid
I'm pleased that Chris was honest enough to say so.
This Forum, as good as it is, is not the place to be conducting business between
the two councils.
Best way is to sit around the table, and sort it out - keith
of course this issue should be discussed in the way that you say.
the fact is
it isn't, it is now in the public domain.
i thought my suggestion was quite reasonable. - I dont dispute what you say howard
CHRIS P. Well done for
your honesty - Howard, it should be in the public domain , there is nothing confidential about this decision or discussions other than employment issues. which can be dealt with
out of the public gaze.
This matter is now nearly a year on since it was raised.
Deal TC ,Walmer PC, St Margaret's PC, Ash PC all put these matters to bed by March/April. They had their public meetings over the same
issues, settled and continue to talk. - understand what you are saying paul, this should have been done and dusted a long time ago.
i don't know the full
details, but it comes across like there have been personality clashes rather than party differences. - Hmm, the silence to your suggestion Howard says it all. They
DON'T want the information as it doesn't help their political gameplan for the elections next year.
If Keith is so keen to see people round a table why doesn't he get the "invisible man", who he is clearly spokesman for, to
get off his butt and get round a table with those who can provide the answers? Answer, it doesn't suit his own personal political agenda. Easier to go for the headline in true NEW Labour style (note to GC - New Labour is dead, the
public killed it with some help from GB).
Finally, Indies have a right (no party whip at DTC, unlike Labour) to support what they believe to be for the benefit of Dover without regard to which side proposes it. Hurrah!! Cllr
Chris is merely exercising his political freedom to do so. Nothing more should be read into, or extrapolated from it. - SID
You and others in
past years have been very critical of Labour persons not posting, I have throuhout all of this continued posting to prove all this wrong.
Chris P has gained a great deal of credibility by his open and honest
viewpoint.
Could I remind you once again there are 18 yes, 18 Town cllrs any of whom can do all that is being asked of Gordon.
My understanding also is that most if not agree to the TOWN COUNCIL postion on this
issue.
k - Paul.
I'm glad to see that you are keen on open government - I have always thought that sunlight is the best disinfectant.
I note that there is a
meeting tonight of Thanet District Council Cabinet who are excluding the public from Item 11 which involves the creation of East Kent Services, a cooperative arrangement between Thanet, Canterbury and Dover council ostensibly set up to
allow the three council make economies by collaborating and jointly running service like housing, ICT etc.
There are those who suggest that this will be setting up a quango of the rather highly paid usual subjects who who will
only refer back to the democratically elected leaders of council if they cannot produce 10% savings in two years (a risible amount IMHO). See 1.4.8 of agenda.
A cynic might suggest that that much of local governance is being
handed over to highly (and some would say over) paid "officers" who are not elected and cannot be sacked by the electorate.
Perhaps you would care to comment? - Bob,
Personally don't have a problem with your comments.
I think you'll find 10% will be the minimum that the organisation is expected to deliver. If it can't shape up quickly then it will disappear.
The view is that it will need a short period of guaranteed work in its inception period then will be market tested within a defined period.
A sort of loose workers co-op I guess.
If it is the Housing grouping,
then we have this at our Council meeting in open session next Weds. The housing situation differs from the main shared services organisation. This needs government approval and involves full tenant participation rights and representation
at Board level.
It is a very interesting process trying to pull four disparate Coiuncils together voluntarily whilst respecting their individual decision making sovereignty.
There is a harmonisation of staff terms and
conditions necessary with this process as each Council has its own local contract.
A very potted and iuncomplete version of where I think we are at present Bob.
Watty
- Bob,
The following question will be asked at the DDC meeting on the 29th September 2010.DDC will not exclude the public.
I wish to put the following question
to the leader of the Council or member of the cabinet at the full Council meeting of 29th September 2010.
Reg Hansell.Upton House,Mill lane,Shepherdswell Dover CT15 7LJ.
On the 27th Jan 2010 I put the following question to
this Council.
The potential merger of Housing services of Canterbury,Dover,Shepway and Thanet is a major step towards a Unitary council of East Kent.It is a mini Unitary Council.
The savings of this action is £1,500,000
pounds.
Recently 44 district and county councils in 7 counties were merged resulting in 9 Unitary councils with a potential saving of £100 million pounds.
The merger of our four district councils of East Kent into one
council will result in-One chief executive instead of four-Approx 50 councillors instead of 196-One leader of the council instead of four-One cabinet instead of four-One planning department etc,etc instead of four-And other economies of
scale throughout the four councils.The savings are enormous.
The changes would result in simpler access for people,stronger lobbying powers for a larger council and better value for money through economies of scale.
A
unitary council would be a completely new council and would replace both district and county councils.
Kent county council is to big-Dover and other east kent district councils are short of finance and to small to be
effective.
Unitary councils serve 60% of England.
All councils in Scotland and Wales are Unitary councils.
The financial position of all four district councils is parlous.
Why does this council not
evaluate the savings available in a Unitary council of East Kent?
When can the people of Dover expect a transition to a Unitary council of East Kent?
In my supplementary question I suggested it would be better to
jump than be pushed.
I realised then and I realise now this was/is a painfull``Christmas and Turkey``scenario.
We need to deliver effective services to this district.
The Chief Executive states``By 2015 it is planned to have one
chief executive who will be shared with one or more other East Kent District Councils and just two directors``
The Chief Executive states the report`` To deliver effective services-Shaping the future of the District``will make
considerable savings.
I wish to propose to this Council that one chief executive,one management team and the bulk of of the staff of the four present district councils to carry out the duties of the shared services to each of the
four areas can run the East Kent area.
The savings to be made would be more than considerable they would be in the millions of pounds.It could also mean little,if any,cuts in services.
I firmly believe it is our duty to
evaluate the savings to be made.The time to do this is now.Will this Council arrange to carry out this evaluation?
Thankyou Mr.Chairman - All sounds
good,but will it work for us? lets see what Mr Watkins has to say about it first. - interesting comments on the subject of unitary authorities and also shared
services.
reg mentions that 60% of our population are in unitary authorities.
do we know if their council tax bills are lower than the rest of us?
the subject has also been raised of their being one chief executive instead of
the present four.
i find it difficult to imagine this happening, the potential losers will find a way of stopping progress. - HOWARD;
I have discussed unitary
authorities both with Reg, and posted on here.
I have always said that 3 councils for Dover is to many, and with the 3 we have the high wages of those officers involved.
So that part I agree with Reg on.
My concern
is that of other unitary councils presently in operation.
I can only base it on what I see, Im a regular visitor to South Wales, and like Dover they had there indivual councils, and counties, this all got swallowed up into a
unitary, and the voice rather than being local, got lost.
It hasn't worked there, whereby decisions were made locally, now they are made miles away.
So, I'm not against unitaries, but if we go down that road theres a lot
to consider like;
1; If the county were to go who would take on all those services?
2; Will decisions be able to be made locally
3; Can I guarentee a unitary won't go same way as that one in
South Wales
4; Last
time a unitary was on the agenda will the political
parties look in the interests of the local population and not on
who may control any new authority, all parties last time looked
on it in the wrong way.
5; wILL
A unitary realy benefit Dover
6; Will the 3 councils realy agree in the best interests of the
local population - The 'suspense' is killing me; maybe that was the
idea! Hung for an offence also committed by others but they went free. Is this what we are to expect in a free democracy? You decide. - We
can now get back to re building the party ready for 18 months time - As a pure Dovorian, I`ll say brilliant job PaulB. Never seen this picture before, though we had a pier half way
between what are now the eastern and western docks. I haven`t seen it up close, so can`t comment much further, but I`m sure other`s out there will. - Paul W (Scotchie) will be
able to advise us more... he has researched it properly... and even found the gates if i remember correctly.. - like colin i have heard there was a pier halfway between the
two docks, think it was roughly level with where the swimming sculptures are now. - I have posted a thread on the main forum !!
- Yes indeed Paul have seen your thread over in the members club with further pictures of the above.. if anyone wants to see the extra shots go there. The extra pictures give
an extra dimension to the one above, showing where the pier was located etc.
All from Paul 'Scotchie' Wells excellent book..
Dover Past and Present
Thanks
Colin. - COLIN;
I'm a born DOVORIAN
But pure??????
lol - lovely photo the light in the background stands out.
i wonder
what the cost of a cruise would be with only 50 paying customers? - Wow what a whopper!
- hi
mel,have you by any chance been to burger king lately,you hav just made me fancy a whopper right now.bang goes me diet.damm it. - Here are some further bits of info re
Cruising that I have to hand...
Last year (2009) the cruise market in the UK grew by 3.9% to 1.53 million people taking trips. Figures for this year are expected to be in the region of 1.65 million. So the market is huge and
growing.
Nowadays the cruise business accounts for 10% of the total package holiday market, so quite a growth. This will surely benefit Dover in the years to come, with 2011 already looking very good. Yes Howard Dover seems to
cater more for the 'discerning' market as mentioned above. For discerning read more expensive.
Dover is the second biggest Cruise port in the UK. - That
press release is part of a full page spread in a glossy booklet An Insider's Guide to Cruises published in this weeks Spectator.
DHB are certainly pushing their Port promos.
Watty - FANTASTIC PICTURE of the cruise liner, well done.
On another subject and going back to unanswered questions ref Dover Toilets.
It appears that the
details required by Dover Town Council have only just arrived from the District Council in the last week, so it appears the hold is not the fault of the Town Council.
Since this information was delivered a meeting has been
arranged to discuss the details there in.
It appears one of the questions that remains unanswered is the refurbishment costs.
Sandwich town council were given re furbishment costs before taking over the toilets there, and Dover
was trying to secure a deal much the same, but has recieved no reply on this, maybe Paul W can respond to this on refurbishment costs would DDC help on this? - seems like a valid
point keith, a cynic might say that the blue voters up at sandwich are getting a better deal than the poorer reds in dover town.
whether that is true or not a level playing field has to be
seen. - HOWARD;
I'm sure politics didnt come into the decision at Sandwich lol
But iF this can be cleared up this might move things
along.
- Brian its rare i get to say the word " whopper" lol
- ITS A fantastic sight what a lovely cruise liner
- No Howard , the Town Council in Sandwich made a
major financial contribution to refurbish the Sandwich loos. They man them, charge for them and made decisions!!
Deal pay for their's and are in the process of discussing with us refurbs. They made decisions!!
I asked on
this Forum just under a year ago for a decision 'in principle' and to sort out the details later.
If that decision had beem made then or in Jan/Feb after the public meeting we would not be having this debate.
This is
not a case "putting on" the Town Council but trying to preserve public services -whichever tier of local gov. is placed to deliver/support it.
It is more relevant now with major financial announcements on local gov. funding
reductions ranging from 25%-40% being announced in three weeks
There are budget allocations recommended by David H. for this financial year for this issue and tourism.
Why play pedantic games?
Remember we are
discussing this because of a press release giving mis-information on Museum closures etc.
By the way Keith you did not answer the question posed about whether you are still a PCSO? - Paul is this a general inquiry about Keith,or do you have an objection to him posting on the Forum and being a PSCO.Perhaps calling him a plastic Policeman has upset him.
Because I found it objectionable that any working person is called plastic when they are working hard with the General Public.
On another subject how much did DDC give Sandwwich Town Council to run the small toilets on Sandwich
Quay,which nearly everytime I go by are shut.Now I walk that way and of the 4 times I have walked by recently they have been open twice! - I will not get into the personalities
which Paul W wishes to get this open debate into.
This debate was about Dover Toilets.
Im sure, as we have town cllrs from the 3 parties post and read on here that one of them will respond.
Thankyou John for our support,
but I feel the toilets to be the more important issue - I'm not sure how long Keith has been the public voice of Dover Town Council. Are they, like Gordon Cowan, unable to
speak for themselves on this issue? If not, why is this matter still rumbling on, is someone playing games for political purposes?
Also not sure about the 'plastic' comment to be honest. I don't agree with PCSO's in
principle, I'd rather see proper police doing the job we pay them for, but that isn't the fault of those who do the work, and do it well by all accounts. - I see Ed No Bananas has announced he doesn't believe in a God. This almost puts him on a par with Nick Clegg, who of course, isn't the offspring
of a Jewish Marxist. What do the Labour Christian and Jewish supporters think of this announcement I wonder?
Should we be concerned, particularly as this is a country where the church has a major part to play in the affairs of
State? - SID;
i DID ASK VIEWS from you on other postings which never came, but never mind.
On this issue of the Town council, I
was trying to get the two bodies round the table, which I felt to be sensible rather than squabble on here.
Of course the 18 town cllrs will next week at there meeting make there mind up on p watkins proposals.
trying
to help SID
- Keith HELP ???????????????????? dont make me laugh. Sid hello my mate ive missed you
- i doubt whether anyone of any political party will take too much notice of the marital state or religious beliefs of ed.
when it comes to election time they will be more interested in his economic and social
policies. - Keith mate, apart from being 'suspended until further notice or maybe forever', I have been very busy doing consulting work for a foreign government,
and this has kept me a bit pre-occupied of late.
I'll rummage about and find what you asked me and try to post some answers for you.
Howard, nice to see you declaring yourself as either a Christian or Jewish Labour
supporter. I always had my suspicions!
Melissa, you can always chat with me on FB. - Sid posted at 1738 today, It has not appeared on
here, do we know why? - sid
you have broken a new record. nought correct out of 3 is some going. - SID;
No worries mate, nice to see your busy, Dover got nice home draw in cup.
Catch up with you at crabble some time - great stuff from the swingate inn,
will look forward to the sea safety day in october,. - I am reading two books currently:
1. Inverting the pyramid by Jonathan Wilson, which is about the
history of football tactics.
2. Henry V by Christopher Allmand
I am busy working my through the life stories of all the English monarchs since the Froggie invasion and illegal military coup of 1066. - Vogt and Butler have announced the discovery of a habitable planet, Zarmina's World, in the constellation of Libra. It is a planet orbiting the
red dwarf star Gliese 581, some 20 light years away.
With this discovery of another habitable, potentially earth-like, planet in our own solar system of the Milky Way, there must be many more out there, and the odds of finding
alien life forms will be drastically reduced today. - British Medical Association thread contains MISINFORMATION.
The BMA is concerned
ONLY at the pace of change, NOT the changes being piloted.
Please read the BBC report for an accurate assessment. - SID;
This is
difficult to reply when you i presume you cant post above?
and your posts take a time to appear.
The BBC report you refer to has the words(not mine)
Doctor Richard Vautrey Dep chair of the B.MA. said as the chair of
the GP's committee said GP's had SERIOIUS CONCERNS over the proposals.
B.M.A. Chair Dr Hamish Meldrum has concerns that much is potentially damaging.
Thinik those two comments alone say it
all - Keith, I agree, but don't make the rules.
Dr Hamish Meldrum also said, "there were proposals in the White Paper that doctors can support and want to work with".
Dr Vautrey also said, "Patients want to see their doctors and other healthcare professionals, in general practice and in hospitals, collaborating with one another - not competing with one another."
That gives a more accurate
and balanced view of thinking within the BMA.
Let us remember, these are proposals, and the BMA, Unison, HMG and others will have their say before the final decisions are made.
The real issues are basically how fast to
implement changes, and the effect of competition; expected once GP's, who want the changes, start to manage budgets.
I take this to be positive and not negative. - Plastic milk bottles are an environmental nightmare. Bring back the glass bottle that can be re-used over and over again.
IMHO all plastic
milk bottles should carry an 'environemntal surcharge' of say, £2 to cover the cost of dealing with this abomination. - There seems to be no
historic reference to an illegal military coup in 1066, Sid! There was a confrontation between two fully fledged armies, though! - i don't know about that alex,
my understanding is that william of normandy was never sent a formal invitation, we must assume it was a medieval gate crash of our beautiful island. - Alexander,
Duke William was NOT the rightful heir to the English crown, his elder brother, Duke robert, was. - Sid;
Fully understand, and did hear
yourself nd one other had been banned.
I don't know the full details so best I don't comment.
There were sid CLEAR negative concerns from the BMA and i'm sure SID your not interest in unison views. not being a union
man.
Everyone says the NHS can be improved, but I hope it remains free at point of entry as BAZ says he wants.
I'm getting more and more doubtful, and worried we spend millions and achieve
little - Keith , a simple general interest apolitical question.
Are you still a PCSO? - paul
keith is to cheriton what the late p.c. dixon was to dock green. - Thank you Howard.
- Marek, "Well done Ed". He didn't DO anything, it was the Beeb who took action and the Union bloke who accepted the negotiated offer,
which will be put to members.
Ed Millingabout, did nowt! - It was a lot of fun last night at the White Horse Inn. Good to see the smiling
forumite faces and arch contributors of Andrew Stucken, Paul Wells ( Scotchie), Colin Pritchard, of course Matt Bristow and of course landlady of the event with the ever smiling disposition...Jeanette Harper. Also of course the forumites
I brought along with me like Jan Tranter, Colette Boland and last but not certainly not least and down from London for the occasion Briony Boland herself. Hopefully Im not leaving anyone out.
There was a great turnout despite some
of the worst weather we have seen in ages. Howling gales and driving rain..unbelievable.
The food was great and as ever muggins here couldnt finish it all...I had vegetarian sausages (three) with heaps of mash, peas onions and
gravy. Boy was I full up! All washed down with lashings of Pinot. I could hardly get up from my seat to take the picture above. But I rigourously made the effort to do my bit...helped on of course by the assorted wimmin!
(Sid not
much point in commenting on the Forum Club stuff as nobody will know here on the f/p what its all about, best leave comments to frontpage features to avoid confusion.) - It was a lovely evening Paul, and very nice to see everyone. The weather was a bit wet and windy, which may have deterred a few from venturing out. Very nice picture`s Matt, I had a sneak preview before other`s arrived, and
sorry to all I had to leave a bit early. - As said yes we braved the weather was nice to see the crowd in the white horse and check out your work Matt,also enjoyed the food
complements to the chef Jeanette. - SID;
OUR ED did state that striking was not the way forward and the tory conference and leaders speech should not be blacked
out,
So yes of course its the union geezer that makes the decision with his members.
Ed did his bit to. - Sid, I know full well that Duke William was not the rightful heir
to the English throne, but neither was Robert his brother.
Harold Godwyn was, because the (or at any rate a) Witan had elected him. No English Witan elected either Wiliam or Robert, and without the Witan's consent, in those days no
-one could become King. William's landing, however, has nothing to do with a military coup! It was a war, between to armies. - Is It me or am i seeing things?
Im
sure Sid posted earlier but it never appeared
yestersday they took long time to come on screen.
is there a reason for this? - looks like a great time was had by
all at the white horse, i intended to go but bottled it because of the inclement weather.
keith
posts from non members or members that have not logged in are held until one of the editorial team logs in and clear
them. - HOWARD
sid posted over 8 hours ago
it never appeared
i presume you class him as a non member at the
moment? - just proved my point keith, you had not logged in so i had to rubber stamp your post.
- so SID
NEVER LOGS IN???
Or you never let him post?
this is getting more and more confusing
all im askng is
can sid not post on the open page?
if so what happ;ened to the one 8 hours ago?
- Well done Matt. What a beautiful daughter you and Jo have :)
- Keith if Sid is suspended then he will have to wait to get his posting on screen like the rest of us.
- Oh wheres my posting gone????
- £112 million pounds!
I`m with you Colin. - £112 millon pounds!
Colin/Barry W.
EKHT
HAVE £20 MILLION.
£24 MILLION will give us what we need to build at Whitfield for starters.Expansion comes later as required and demand grows.
Colin save some money for that. - Colin
It might be better to have 100 winners of million squid
- Not really Keith, it would lose it`s
attraction, and many good causes would lose out. It`s those big numbered bucks that attract punter`s from all over the world. Personally, I wouldn`t bother with ticket`s for a measley million, and I doubt if a few other`s would either.
- Thanks RVH 1, I`ll try my best.
- Well colin it was just a thought
a hundred people getting a million would im
sure change many lives.
or 50 million winers
anyway how are you colin? - £112 million pounds.
Colin/BarryW.
EKHT HAVE £20 MILLION POUNDS for our
Hospital.
£24 Million pounds will give us what is required to build our Hospital at Whitfield for starters.Expansion can come later on this location and when need demands.
Save some money Colin. - bilmey hospital is back
whats the update on the dosh
- i thought the dosh was not on offer
anymore, reg says differently.
either way, work is already planned on upgrading buckland. - HOWARD
I dont have that information, hopefully Reg and others
can update us - It's only Great Crested Newts that are protected as I recall and they and frogs are usually not in the water at this time of year. It's still possible to do
work around their habitat after an appropriate survey (had to do this myself once starting a community garden from scratch). They'd be at more danger of being squashed by the vehicles at this time of year. - Many thanks for that info Ray. Great stuff. I myself as Im sure many others would have great trouble telling the difference between a frog and a newt. The poor ol
newt gets a bad press due to his association with hard drinking, but Im sure its not deserved...lol! How that came about gawd knows!
Seriously though taking the wildlife issue a bit further, there is great debate going on at the
moment about wildlife and why it should scupper plans to develop Lydd Airport. It has been much on television and I myself ventured to one of the meetings. But the real issue is...jobs or wildlife? very tricky one.
And now for the
Icelandic banking crises and how the latest situation affects the return of our money... - It seems the frogs and newts in my pond dont know they should be on
the land by now. I shall have a word. I will check on the newts protection status and the Council may be hearing from someone.
Peter Hart - From
Your Dover a couple of weeks ago:
"The majority of the fish have already been removed by Mid Kent Fisheries and put in holding ponds, and MKF experts will be on hand when the Connaught Park pond is drained to remove any remaining
fish.”
I am sure they know what they are doing ! - Do any of our Council Members know what has happened about the Referendum on Europe I believe we as a country are paying
£25 Million Pounds a day to be a member of the EU if we came out that money would go a long way to clearing the Country's Deficit, The EU country's would still trade with us. I only ask this as I remember some local Politician saying
this country would have a referendum or is this another broken promise from people who only want to better themselves and forget about those who put them there. - after reading the release from the reds my thought was o.k. the local elections are 6 months away so we will get all sides throwing their hat in the
ring.
why are they so keen??
totally beyond me, the next 4 years will see whoever getting in making cuts to services whilst people will pay the same council tax if not a bit more.
if is was a councillor i would much
prefer to be in opposition poking fun at the people who make the unpopular decisions. - Alan - I speak as someone who is anti-EU and wants us out of that
farce.
I think you may be confused as to what has actually been promised so please bear with this.
In the 2005 election the Conservatives committed to a referendum on the European Constitution prior to ratification. It was
not an in or out referendum. Labour and the LibDems were forced politically to match that promise.
Then the Constitution was voted down, by Ireland and Denmark from memory (France too may have) and the EU in their usual manner
went back to the drawing board and decided to deal with it another way.
They changed the Constitution to a Treaty, renamed it the Lisbon Treaty, but kept 97% of the provisions intact so it is virtually the same
thing.
Calling it a Treaty meant that some troublesome countries would no longer have to have a referendum as otherwise required by their laws.
Labour and the LibDems then argued that the Treaty was no longer the same thing
and a referendum was no longer necessary. The Conservatives argued that as the provisions are almost the same a pre-ratification Treaty was still necessary.
Labour with LD support then went ahead and ratified the Treaty. The
Conservatives opposed this, voted against and , indeed proposed an amendment in Parliament to force a referendum.
Most Conservative MPs and a number of honourable Labour rebels voted against the government and for a referendum.
Labour though with LibDem support still managed to force it through.
The Treaty was then ratified about by the EU about 6 months before the election and is now law.
A referendum on that Treaty is now no longer possible and
irrelivant as it is law. As you know we cannot pick and chjoose what laws we obey.
There has never been a commitment to a full in or out referendum since the mid 70's
I want us out of the EU but, sadly, I do not see a yes
vote to that being obtained at this time even if there were to be a vote.
Sadly a negative fear message in support of the status quo is a much easier message to sell than a message of change. As happened before the anti EU
campaign would be labelled extremists and even nutters with the conivance of the BBC and otrher pro-EU organisations. Make no mistake the EU would devote a lot of resources to the campaign.
A referendum on our membership sadly
would fail at this time.
I do believe, however, that we will be out of the EU in due course. Anti-EU feeling has not abated despite the years of our membership and in fact has grown. Eventually the time will be right for such a
referendum but that is not now.
Remember - a referendum is a one shot chance, get the timing wrong and we will be locked in to that dreadful organisation. - I
recall several years ago work was carried out at The Ropewalk Sandwich .The fish were removed and looked after by MKF .I have a lovely photo of myself looking at a fish as it they were put back into the water .The Mayor of Sandwich was
also in the photo .He actually handled the fish
A very delicate operation carried out by MKF .Our Council staff do know what they are doing .. - not entirely true
about one chance of a referendum barry.
if the electorate give the "wrong" answer they will have a chance to atone for their sins, ask the irish.
there has been no mandate for the lisbon treaty given by us unwashed masses,
only steamrollering through by governments. - That 'second chance' Howard assumes that you have a government that is desperate to play the EU tune. The EU
cannot order an unwilling government to have another referendum particularly when an in or out vote.
Make no mistake - if the timing is wrong and the vote is to stay in there will not be another opportunity to vote us out of the
EU, we will be stuck.
Another reason to get the timing right. - The pond in Connaught park is full of water again so why drain it in the first place. "Council
staff do know what they are doing" an oxymoron if ever I heard one. Any way maybe someone will explain DDCs logic./ - barryw,it was holland that voted
no not france.
speaking as a pro european i would say fully intergraite into the eu along with the euro as currency,this is based on that we can do more damage in than out.we allso could benifit from it
to. - you are right brian, i hasten to add that france were planning one then bottled out when they took a gander of gallic public opinion and also the result from the land of
windmills, tulips and porn. - Peter - correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't the easiest thing to have done is to just ask the workers
?? - thanks howard,fancy barryw missing that one.
- I am sure that France also voted Non to the Lisbon treaty, or
whatever treaty it was called at that time, possibly in 2004.
Brian, you are suggesting a Trojan Horse strategy to enter the euro and make it crash, but such strategy only can work if it is not previously revealed. You have
disclosed it, so I doubt it would function now!
Concerning a referendum on e.u. membership, UKIP is in favour of a referendum, and in favour of Britain leaving the e.u. UKIP has no dally around tactics such as Barry advocates, but
is open and direct.
A sincere Party that proclaims its intentions without secret undisclosed intentions of saying one thing (yes to e.u.) but secretly trying to achieve the other (to leave the e.u.)
Barry, with such a programme as
yours on e.u. membeship, how can anyone possibly vote your party?
It should be either yes or no, in or out, full stop! - May I thank you all there are some wonderful
comments here, and you all have given some great answers and a lot for me to take in. Now I know why I am not a Politician. Best wishes To All. - alan
if you have views on many things perhaps you would like to apply for membership?
an e mail to paulb at dover7@msn.com would get the ball
rolling. - paulb
Thank you I was a member but lost my login Details - alex,as i said before hand,the only way to change the eu is by being a full member.as for a yes or no referendum i think would be classed as null and void.
- BBC
SOUTH EAST calling.
We will be filming in the Market Square at 2.30pm. David Cameron's speech will be on the big screen. We want to know your views on his first conference speech as PM.
What do you think about the cuts
to Child Benefit?
Is the Conservative/Lib dem Government doing a good job?
If you are trying to find a job, you are a pensioner, or a stay at home parent hit by the Child Benefit cuts please contact Peter Whittlesea on
01892 675588. - Well, to answer one of your questions, Mr. Whittlesea, I think that to cancel child benefits meant for people earning a
medium-high salary could lead to families having less - or no - children, especilly if they have a mortgage or other debits to pay.
I would have thought it better to cancel beneits going from our Country to the
e.u. - Hi Alan
Will email your membership details over later today. I should have them on file. Would be good to have you posting regularly.
Always worth noting
though by everyone...if you dont use your membership you automatically get deleted.
Anyone else want to join in the friendly banter in the Members Club just let me know...always interested in regular posters.
Email me Paul
on
dover7@msn.com - paulb,the coins above comes
to 13 quid,not a lucky number. - Is that right Brian..oh dear! never noticed that. I took that picture myself, it didnt come in via the press release or anything like that,
so I am now suitably spooked ! lol !
However I have since spent the dosh illustrated....so maybe someone else will get the bad luck. I spent it in the Co-Op...so beware you fellow
citizens! - Dear Paul
Password is Incorrect wont let me log on - No, Brian! four of 'em came out tails!
- alex,time for a recount i make it 3
tails. - Open Invite
Country Brides Official Opening TONIGHT!!
5pm - 7pm.. with the Mayor of Dover and Faversham doing the official opening.
Feel free
to pop in and say hello. - Brian, it depends whether you're counting the coins or their value in pounds. Initially, you counted 13 pounds, although the coins are
11. - alex,just counting the value regardless of what the coin is.now stop picking bones,its bad for you.
- She gets my vote ;-)
- Thanks Paul..
it was a fab night, and you even managed to
ensure my lovely legs werent on show in the photos!! YAY!
Didnt take any photos myself, just about to try and do the shop front as the light has changed...
Soo pleased with it all, and looking forward to seeing everyone
with the Christmas parties coming up.
Jen - great to see such a turnout, seems like paulb has banished the gremlins from the front
page. - Jenni good to browse around your new establishment and see many beautifull dresses, and even see a few familar faces I had not seen in along while.
So good
luck hope all goes well for you. - Lovely pic Jenn well done x The Court of Dover look great x
- i
thought that jenn had shipped them in from faversham. - I heard while I was at this event the other day from a member of the press that there are now three Dover
Carnival Courts, and the person telling me this was entirely confused, as indeed are the rest of us as to who is exactly who. Always better I guess to have just the one representing the town if at all
possible. - i heard that the dover carnival court, carnival court of dover and the dover court carnival will be joining forces with another three group to make
up one super carnival for next year. - howard
I do hope your correct as to have more than one representng Dover is helpng no one
and makng a mockery of
Dover - paulb,i can confirm that there are 3 carnivals representing dover at the moment.
- So there are 3 Dover
Carnival Queens!!!!!!!! - PAUL H.... NO is The Answer To Your statement... To answer the other question...
There Are currently 3 associations until I close DCAL Down
- Just out of curiosity, let`s pick a year when I last watched the carnival. It was 1986, when we lived along Barton road. It was great then, how many organiser`s were
involved, and what`s happened since then? Why all this hassle? I haven`t been to one since. - Colin... I wasn't Living In Kent In 1986.... However I think you will find that it
was the Original Dover carnival Association that ran that event... Under the chairmanship Of Bob Cook... Cannot shed any other light on it than that.... It Is Now run by Louise Scott and they are the group who now run the Dickens
parade.
You Say IT WAS GREAT THEN..... Sadly the most probable reason for that was that no one had to jump through hoops or cut through mounds of red tape like now ...In 2006 NO BANDS could March in the parade thanks to new
legislation that got passed... NOT at local level I may add... Less than a year later that same legislation was scrapped as it was so vague... yet each year new ... equally vague stuff comes into force...
2 associations happened in
2004, and was covered in depth on here then... I am sure Paul B, does not want to go through that route again... Although Colin I am happy to meet for coffee to explain.. or if you wish Karol Steele... Carnival Guru will put you fully in
the picture, she is known pretty much by everyone... Hopefully that helps answers a little of what you wanted to know - I don't know what reasons of legislation can be given
to stop a marchng band, apart from maybe the time(but then that's the same for the floats, when you have them)
The marching band's were all part of the original carnival, which to my mind is where the carnivals should get back
to.
I recall my dad must be 30 yearss ago always entered a post offce float, as did many other local business's, always different themes every year. - Congratulations
Jenni - looks like a great opening evening - hope the business continues to excite Dover (and hopefully further afield) people.
Sorry I couldn't make it Thursday evening and also sorry my camera packed up half way through on Friday
morning, but thank you for the photos you sent, I'll make up a poster and send it round to all those on my email address groups.
Keep busy - and happy.
Roger - Keith ... From What I remember of the band thing.... The legislation was really badly flawed... Sid Will Be able to shed more light... But I do believe and I stand corrected if I am wrong... Bands were told that if they stood
on one spot it was okay... but if they marched then a seperate performers licence Would be required... It was all to do with counter marching... and also included majorette troupes - Marching band's are part of any carnival, and if that's correct then they are wrong.
Maybe Sue/Paul/Roger or missng Nigel could enlighten us - Keith... It
Was Something which was scrapped the same year it was brought in.... I did say this was NOT done at local level...
The One Coming soon.... and it will I am sure within the next few years is safety harnesses for anyone riding on a
float... This has been talked about for a little while now.. And I guarantee it will in time be passed...
A little bit like the one that came in about charging for any roads which needed to be closed... yet another piece of
legislation which was scrapped... but not before it put pay to Sittingbourne carnival for the 2008 year... route changes for Sheppey and Faversham... The point I am making is that the constant red tape is mind boggling...
Colin
asked... What Has happened over the years.. - Mandie ,
You are correct it was to do with a performing licence .Nigel is the one who knows all about this .The same with
floats they have to have side protection and in the case of the Carnival Queens floats nets to protect the girls from those who throw coins
There is a lot of paper work plus you need stewards along the route .A lot of work
.. - With regards to the bands, I do believe we can allow them to march in the parade as usual, now I do not know if this is a change in legislation or not, we now have
a couple of bands who want to take part in next year's parade on the first Sunday in July.
However I think the plan is to also let them do a performance at a given point in town , perhaps with the regatta it might be something
for them to perform on the seafront.But these are the type of conversations we will be having.
I completely agree that the bands used to make the carnival and when I had my first year in carnival in 1994 we had several big bands
and it was absolutely amazing, but times have definitely changed, even down to now where you have the parade, the route it takes and who plans that route. - I remember as a young Boy going to Dover Carnival were there were many bands and fireworks in Pencester Gardens there was none of this have you got this or that it was a great day out. When are we going to get back to this and
stop all the in fighting Carnival is about our Town and the people that live here, Lets just have fun on this day and not Politics. Life is to Short. - Mandie,
So f the legislaton was in place then immediatly removed surely the bands could have happened then??
do understand netting as some people throw cons far to heavily, but they will be guidlines.
in
regard to other safety issues floats having side protection will be local gudlines, and as has been said even by Lord Young(tory) a ,lot of health a safety legislation was put in place to help, but many organsations/emloyers are adapting
it to the word, and going way overboard, even though advce was often given out that these were guidlines that's all.
If the red tape is in place locally or nationally then we need to look at ways to dismantle a lot of
it.
Safety should always come first, but guidlines are just that
guidlines.
I always remember as a child falling off a slide onto concrete and learnt not to do that in the future.
It was part of growing
up
- No Keith Is the answer... It was brought in, and then was abandoned after the date of the parade...once it was discovered the massive flaw
I have always
understood the safety aspect... hence the reason horses have not been involved in the parade for a number of years... Following a massive incident at Margate I believe where a horse was spooked and went on a mad dash, destroying cars
etc..
The Netting issue for the girls is the same... I am aware of a young girl a few years back who was hit in the eye by a coin and has suffered impaired vision since... I have even seen for my own eyes pound coins purposley
shaped into a point just for throwing.
You have to listen to what is being implemented whether you agree or disagree... and the argument for most has always been why the likes of Nottinghill carnival can pretty much do what it wants
unaffected by the changes.. I am told that this is because they come under metropolitan police which is different, and therefore has different implementations...
Even something as simple as in the past where most travelled to and from
the parade start on the back of their float is now a no go.... This was hammered home to DCAL by DC Helen Bland who pointed out... and rightly to that unless the float is in the parade.. it comes under normal traffic regulations, and
therefore subject to normal highways law.... In 2005 a float was refused to leave Russel St car park as the passengers of the float wanted to ride back to where they had constructed their float.. while still on it..
The idea of
any new legislation is to make things safer... however for the most part... those making these new laws do not have the first clue about carnival.. yet are laying down rules that don't always work... they don't consult with
organisations before bringing some of these things in... they assume it will always work... and that isn't always the case...The police and highways don't have a say either, they are told to implement it and have to..
Some of the
stuff does need looking at, and to be fair when it has proven not to work, it has been removed... there is very often a lot of grey area, and vague info... ya just have to make the best of
it - Mandiie;
Your general theme I agree with, but trying to get my head round, if the legislation was thrown out fairly soon after being agreed, Iv notr seen bands in
ANY carnival for many many years,
- all this seems to point to the fact that there is far too much red tape involved in running what should be just a fun
afternoon.
i go along with the stringent safety regulations to protect the participants but the road closure stuff gets to me.
we are talking about a few hours a year after all, a few say they are incovenienced, so what,
we are inconvenienced by many things like power cuts pipe laying and water main repairs. - I'm with you on this one
Howard - 2004 Black Knights Marching Corps & Redhill Corps Of Drums
2005 Black Knights Marching Corps & Millennium Allstars
2006 Southern Xl's & Millennium
Allstars
2007 New Haven Youth Band & Millennium Allstars
2008 Combined Cadet Corp
2009 Dover ATC Whitstable Sea Cadets
Where Have You Been Keith ??? Bands Every Year In Dover For The Above Named Years
- MANDIE
Please forgive me, I think my point was the carnivals have reduced so much over the years(not just the last)
floats etc, loads marchng bands.
used to
take ages to get them all through the high street.
I just recall the days all the work that went into my dads post office float, and lots of local national business's took
part.
- Bands for Carnival cost a great deal of money from £700.00 upwards for a good one. Alot of local carnivals cannot afford this additional cost on top of
the road signage, marshalls etc.... at one time we thought we would be paying for police presence if that had happened Carnival would not have happended at all.
Sheli
x
- Whats wrong with asking them to do it for free after all they are promoting themselves as well and giving something back to the Community the sea Cadets are part
of this town and I am sure the army cadets have a band. are these people ever asked. - I love the look of the shop and the website but I think
that the name doesn't portray all the unusual things on sale.
My first thought,on reading about it,was the it is a gents outfitters.
Very good luck to Tony! - Thank you Mandie and Sue for your kind replies, and very interesting. I haven`t seen the carnival for more than 20 years, (usually at work), but do hear of it. Only since being on this forum have I realised how much is
involved, especially with all this new legislation, an unfortunate part of the nanny state we live in. - Modern Gent, well done Tony, and I did look in again this morning with
a potential customer, but will be back. You have some very useful and practical items there, though I`ll leave the dog`s head for other`s. Some Christmas present idea`s as well. Good luck for the
future. - Hi Jenni I popped around to Country Brides today on the off chance to say hello, not realising your opening times ie Wed - Sat (very smart window display). I'll come
back later in the week to have a look around and have a chat, take care. - Looks a very interesting shop, all the best
Tony! - Great that 2 new shops have opened in Dover.
Dover has lots going for it, maybe this is the start of the
upturn. - Heya Barry
Normally I have been pottering around in the shop, but I am actually a little exhausted at the moment and spent the day in Faversham, getting a
few more bits and pieces ready for the shop. Sounds insane, but soo much needs doing still.
I shall be there Wed-Fri this week,as due to a prior engagement I have to shut Saturday.
Jen - Superb photo, there is something special about Autumn.
- Hi
With regards to the bands, we have already received
three entries for bands next year. This is a vast improvement and something to look forward to. - Thanks Martin, quite nice colours there. But between yourself and
meself (and dont tell anyone else !) but I have enhanced the colours a tad there !lol
Seriously though ..yes indeed autumn is a great time for the camera, magnificent colours. Hopefully we will see plenty of nice pictures from the
guys in due course. - Any colour on a grey day like this is appreciated Paul ;-)
- Somehow the sky
seems unrealistic there! Multi-coloured clouds. - A fine Autumn picture Paul, the colour compliment`s the white
cliff`s. - Just want to add to the chorus of approval for The Allotment I've just seen in the members' club. Great place, great food. Had a fantastic meal there last week and
would highly recommend it if people are looking for a quality bit of grub. - Great view but have to agree with Alex there I think the posturisation does not add to the
image. - Well done to the Dover War Memorial Project for getting the
Heritage Grant from the Lottery people... as shown above in the latest editorial. This will enable them to carry out further valuable work in all sorts of areas such as spreading the word of the past to the newer generation. Long may it
continue.
Also this reminds me to mention again the event tomorrow night at St Mary's Hall here in central Dover, where a number of projects will be making their case for funding in front of the public and the Neighbourhood Forum
people...they're the ones with the money in the kitty. More on the thread in the Members Club Forum. Doors open at 5.30...could be very interesting. - paulb,thanks for letting us know about this.
have allready got my invite to st martins on the 10th of november,should be quite intressting. - Thank you, PaulB.
What a super job you've done - that looks great! I'll be sending a copy to the HLF, who really appreciate being able to inform everyone like this.
The Unknown Warrior project is very busy at the moment - the Scouts and Brownies
had terrific sessions with Jonathan, the artist. They were so enthusiastic, and it was a joy to be with them. The various schools are having their classroom sessions now, and meanwhile we've all been working on the exhibition and other
resources.
I'm so very pleased about all this, and so glad we have this opportunity; more news and pics to come!. - excellent feature, congrats to
all at the dover war memorial project that have worked to get the grant. - I echo Howard's comments, it's good to read about the involvement of the pupils of St.
Martins, Dover Scout Group and the 8th Dover Brownies. Well Done to all. - Well done to the Dover War Memorial Project for getting the Heritage Grant from the Lottery
people.Its About Time you were Rewarded for your Hard Work. Instead of all the sniped remarks from people who think they started This Project.You saw it through and put Dover Well and truly on the Map, Well done to St Martins Cant Wait
to See the musical, - Excellent news about the Dover War Memorial Project, congrats on all your wonderful work.
- The artifact which Kath Hollingsbee has pictured may well be from Cananda as soldiers were stationed at nearby Kittenden in the second world war. The stone looks familiar to
soapstone, a material carved by the Inuits as Totems. Hope this helps. - what a surprise to hear from you lesley, i heard that you had emigrated to afghanistan and enlisted
in the taleban.
had i been given wrong information? - Howard, No, just in hibernation for a while, hopefully back to my old self now. Hope to catch up with
old friends soon, hope they will understand my absence. - you disappeared off of the radar about 5 years ago lesley.
no doubt you have your reasons, why not send an
email to the forum fuhrer paul on dover7@msn.com and become a full member?
would be good to hear your informed views. - Lesley
Please contact f you so
wish
nce to see you back in crculation
weould be nice to catch up on old times council etc - Well done Maggie and Simon, great to see the DWMP got funding for this worthwhile project.
Hope to catch up with you two soon.
Best wishes
Terry - Thank you Terry, and thank you, everyone. In memory of our Fallen, it's wonderful to be able to do this.
It's a heap of hard work but so worthwhile, and there's a glorious sense of everyone pulling together.
Next in the series of activities for our young people will be trips to Westminster Abbey during Remembrance. There's lots
planned there for them, incluidng, of course, some time by the grave of the Unknown Warrior.
The last time we did this was on the 90th anniversary of the Armistice, when we were commemorating the life of Walter Tull, It was
superb to be with our new generations on such an importnat date - the future our Fallen had died for. The Field of Remmebrance outside the Abbey was stunning and beautiful and very moving indeed. - maggie congrats and well done,keep up the good work.
- I'd like to echo all of those postings of support and
congratulations for Maggie and Simon.
DWMP is a project of outstanding importance with a workload no employed person could/would cope with.
Onwards and upwards to you both.
Roger
- Indeed, we never stop working on the DWMP. There's no nine to five or weekends ....But ... no matter who we are, we are all so lucky to have time. No matter how many
hours/days/years any one does, we will never have given as much time as all those who lost their lives and have only eternity. Live life to the full, in remembrance of those who could not.
As well as the Remembrance Sunday
ceremonies, there are other Remembrance events in Dover over this time. The service at the former Marine Station is 9th November from 10.00, and churches will be marking Remembrance too.
One special event is that the St Mary's
bellringers will be attempting a peal (over three hours ringing, non-stope), on 10th November, to mark the 90th anniversary of the return of the Unknown Warrior. They start at 2.00 pm. Do listen if you're in the area of Cannon Street -
a peal is a superb achievement, and for this one the bells will be half-muffled. That is so beautiful. We wish them every success.
- Last day for the current
features above on this page, but just to remind people about the wreath laying. If you want to lay a wreath on Remembrance Sunday please contact the town council offices now without delay on 01304 242625 or email
council@dovertown.co.uk.
Those details will go into the archive with the features above , the details are mentioned in the features above, so just thought I would make sure they stay available on the frontpage here for easy
access. - October 20th Cuts--District Councils.
,
Our District Councils are way beyond their sell-by date.
They cannot cope with their
mandatory duties and responsibilities Their financial positions will not permit them to perform to an acceptable level of services.
They are in a continual spiral of off-loading their duties and responibilities to Town
and Parish Councils and sharing the supply of basic services with other East Kent Councils.
Many organisations are merging to benefit from economies of scale.
The most recent example is that of Thomas Cook and the
Co-operative group.By merging their Management teams into one they are achieving savings of £35 million pounds.
The merging of our District Councils under one management team would save millions of pounds.
The
effects of October 20th public spending review are unknown but it is accepted the ultimate result will be enormous and damaging.
The merging of our District Councils management teams can reduce their devastating effect.
- reg,have you been talking to our mr taylor on this subject.because thats his faverit moan as well.
- Thank you Brian only saying as I see it Reg is 100% right but the Councilors wont like it because they know its right, its time for District to Go and let Town Council Run This Town. This might not go down to well but there is
only one man on town Council that has been truthful all is days in Office and that is Mike Web and his Great team.Mike and his team have commanded more Respect from all over Kent, more than District will do in its life time. The trouble
is Councilors are there to Represent The people of the town in which they serve but a lot not all forget this and start trying to build a block of flats up someones back side.forgetting what they became a Councilor for in the first
Place. - you have misread what reg has said alan.
both town and district would go to be taken over by a unitary council, also mike webb has
announced his imminent retirement. - REG;
How are you matey, cor still pushing this debate?
falling on deaf ears.
For my two penneth I have always
said 3 councils is to many for Dover.
to many officers/councillors etc and the savings enormous.
But I had said on here before that iv seen new unitaries in S Wales become very remote.
I have always firmly believed in
decision making being made at the most local level possible.
If this was to be a unitary we first have to convince all the parties that any unitary being formed should not be looked upon as to how best to gain control, but more
what's best for Dover.
The Town council also needs to be seen as one that can take on a lot more responsibility.
- Mr Taylor ,
Im voted in by the people of
River with Alkham .My first duty is to those people and you will see me constantly working for those people .In my role as a District Councillor Im concerned for all three towns not just Dover and all the surrounding area .You have your
Dover District Reps and an eighteen member Town Council .I think you need to understand who is responsible for which services .
Reg have you not read the latest poposals .We will become a much streamlined Council and share many
services . - Thank you Howard I stand corrected.
- no probs alan, carry on
as you are, we all need passionate views on dover. - Sue;
As u know streamlining is not the same, clearly Reg has pointed out how
much more could be saved b y the introduction of a unitary authorty.
As I posted we still have to convince the politicans to look at what is best for Dover rather than who gets political control.
Also hopefully the town
council will be seen as a councl fully able to take on extra work - Oct 20th 1960---Oct 20th 2010.
I was the youngest member of a team of mechnical engineering
apprentices working for a very successfull Heavy Engineering Company.
We were assigned to a specialist tradesman and our job involved being sent to the store yard to collect raw marerials,tools and equipment to work on new
contracts.
A new Financial Director ( Chancellor!! )was appointed who had a radical idea of saving money by cutting the amount of raw materials,tools and equipment we carried in stock
Time came when my visits to the storeroom
resulted in my reporting back to my tradesman to tell him the items were not available.The items we needed had long delivery periods.We were unable to keep to our promised delivery dates on our contracts.
The company went into
receivership in two years.
Is there a correlation ?
- Think that is an HM Customs Cutter
- When I first saw that vessel Paul I thought that Barry had ordered it as part of a gunboat diplomacy initiative!
- Looks to me like it's acting on the HMRC circular reported in the members section and is heading for Thanet or Sheppey.
- definitely nothing to do with barry, would be a lot more warheads if it was.
- howard,if thats a customs cutter it carrys spud
missiles. - i thought it was not as bad as predicted, the arts, museums and election promises to the elderly being kept.
paul mentions half a million people being
adversely affected by the cuts it is actually more. many public sectors positions are job shares, mainly women that work 15 - 20 hours per week.
the people affected may reach 700, 000 plus an equivalent amount of private sector jobs
that rely on the public sector.
i have other points to make but will post on them later.
alan johnson came across well in his reply to the statement from george, such a pity he is not young enough to be leader. - Just to add a further bit to compliment the 'Latest' item in the editorial above. There were many shocks today and more and more as we absorb the
announcements.
But one that catches the eye is the coming together of the age of retirement for both sexes, with women losing out the most. isnt the retirement age for women 60 as we speak, I'm sure I have that right, and men
65...well they will both round off at 66 now in this new age. Equality in a way I suppose, but with women the biggest losers in the new deal. That is quite an extra stretch for them in employment.
Also a further one...3,000 fewer
prison places. This will clearly mean a more lenient approach to the criminal...its simple economics and simple maths, fewer places in jail equals fewer jail sentences. The Conservatives used to be the 'tough on crime'
party.
And there is so much more....
but the oft quoted ( oft times quoted by all parties when it suits) Institute of Fiscal Studies said it was not a progressive budget but a regressive one. Mr Osborne once again has hit
the poorer 10% hardest of all...so sayeth the Institute. Perhaps he just doesnt understand the struggle in the poorer sections of society.
- Howard I echo
your statement on Alan Johnson..he was brilliant today..such charisma in a leader is hard to find. Age denied him the chance alas. - Howard
I think Alan
johnson came across very well, also good at ad libbing when distracted
Able to be funny.
good leading light of the Labour party.Whilst Johnson talking
Bit worried at watching Ed Mliband acting like a spoilt child
shouting at cameon sadly they did same
puts people off politics.
thought he was better than that - the tough on crime bit cracked me up, the police are having their
budgets cut. we are now told that due to internal changes visible policing will not be affected.
only a month or so ago the home secretary said that due to internal changes there would be more police on the streets.
they
must think we all have an attention span of a gnat. - Howard
and today a bill was moved to make it easier to make police redundant
interviews today
also clear across the country polce and police civilan jobs to go - back to the chancellors statement, looks like the n.h.s. and schools will be exempt from cuts, all credit to
him.
a lot of responsibilities will be devolved from central to local government in line with the "localisation" mantra.
the question then is "how much will paul the fuhrer and others get to carry out these tasks""?
the answer a cut in funding of over 7%.!! - Now that I am gradually getting in to self employment, I must say, in reference to the above mentioned cuts and
job losses, that it can work both ways. The free market, as Gov. states, does actually compensate for job losses. We can see in London that many services could not function without immigration, and the same can be said for factory
production in Dover (see London fancy box and Tilmanstone salads): the whole production line would close down without immigration, so may-be the cuts are not that badly thought out. They give 500.000 people a chance to find new
employment, in Britain, or in 27 e.u. countries.
And why not? The e.u. is very popular, and I don't see any popular trend to leave it. The vast majority of voters who voted, voted for the three mainstream parties, which are all in
favour.
I didn't vote for them, but that's my personal oppinion. Democracy must be respected, and one gets what one votes for! - Thanks for the Western Heights
information. I'll be there at crack of Dawn! - Thanks Paul for putting the DCR press release up. :)
Just to let you know a few of the DCR team are aiming to
be at the Western Heights Open Weekend Saturday to interview members of the WHPS, visitors and those taking part. If anyone wants to be interviewed on the day please send us an email info@dovercommunityradio.co.uk and we will get it
covered. We shall be up there from 10.30am and wish all the team at WHPS the best of luck with the weekend.
PaulB we shall have to interview you for a feature on DoverForum at somepoint? Would any of the DoverForum team like to be
interviewed for a podcast?
Thanks again
Everyone at DCR - Jeane
I'm not into the supersticious stuff
although I dd share with you a time when i couldn't
explain what had just gone before my eyes.
You had a very reasonable explanation.
- I remember Keith, thanks.
The number used to bother me a bit when I was
younger (Catholic convent school) but now it’s just another number, cool but another number.
- terry
you may be unlucky in this regard, paul is camera happy but
camera shy also, barry is in a state of shock after hearing about the cuts to the civil list, colette is busy preparing to be filmed for that bit she does that goes out on christmas day about 3 p.m.
you know the one, starts with "my
husband and i" and then goes on at length about people in grass skirts in western samoa or some such place. - I solved the 666 enigma earlier this year. The answer
is in Scotland! Turn 666 upside down, and you get 999, the number of Scotland Yard, New Scotland Yard and its dependencies: the Police! See my thread Scotland The Brave on the march.
The Scots will send 666 where it belongs! That's
what we need! - alex
one question here, how did you manage to get out of that jacket?
it was secured very well at the back. - howard,alexs middle name is houdini.
- The Police, Howard, are the opposite of 666! They guarantee law and
order! - you must live far away from dover alex.
- Thanks for putting this up Paul - couldn't see
anything in either of the local papers today :( - The Royal Navy vessel shown off Dover is the offshore patrol vessel HMS Severn, mostly used for fishery protection.
There are some photos of her on my fotopic site showing her on the Eastern Arm with an arrested French trawler three years ago - shipsintheportofdover.fotopic.net/c1396782.html - Many thanks for that info Ed re the vessel. ..good to have that cleared up so well done with that.
Paul yes the Western Heights Weekend would have been on top of the page but at
the last minute I realised about the spooky 666,666 thing so couldnt let that go. I hope the weekend is a success, pity the newspaper guys werent able to give it some exposure though.
Well done to everyone with all the comments.
Non Members can also comment too on any topic, no problem, just use the box above. - The local papers can sometimes be erratic with information. For a couple of
weeks I was sending the Gateway Camera Club reports to both the Express & Mercury while the usual guy was away.
Week 1: One published it, one didn't
Week 2: One published Weeks 1's report, the other put one of its
own.
Week 3: Both papers published Week 2's report (and one of them mananged to lose a word in the middle).
- For those who are keen to know the Democracy Day held
by DDC with children from all the Secondary Schools in the area was;
1 Gordon Cowan. 2nd year running
2.Bernard Butcher.
3.Kevin Mills.
Forumites Sue Nicholas Roger Waldken and me also took part but didn't get in the top 3
- was it some sort of competition john, tell us more?
- yes 12 Councillors sit in a firing
line of 36 in groups of 3 Young People from around the District,they get 3 mins to ask the individual Cllrs as many questions as they can,the Young People then mark the Cllrs then move on to the next Cllr.It is hard work but
fun - Yes jolly hard work .I personally dont think the format for questions is all that good .Its a bit of fun but how can you really judge in three minutes .I think Gordan does
have a sense of humour .One question how often have you met the Queen ?
How long have you been a Councillor .?What do you do ??
Do you like youth??
Do you think we should have Grammar Schools ?/ - all i can say is that those kids must have been brave not to vote for susan, clearly her reputation has not reached the very young yet. they have much to
learn. - It was secret Howard,we had to sneek the kids out afterwards because Sue went for a hat!
- Rumours
about the possible new name for South Kent College are the subject of the latest musings on my blog. Have a look at rhysdgriffiths dot wordpress dot com. - i hope there
will be no changes made to the uniform rhys.
the current baseball cap, trackies and prison white trainers all make for a fetching ensemble. - Oh so Gowan came
first, strange that, thought he was unpopular?Also not surprized at Bernard coming 2nd, he does look at things in a fair way.
second year running gordon came first, interesting - gordon is a charismatic individual.
should his party gain power next may, things will be fast moving.
that is not a criticism of paulw, even though he is still black balling me at his
lodge. - Oh dear Howard! Life can be cruel, but being blackballed by PaulW's lodge is an ignominy toooo hard to bear ! lol
Yes Gordon could be more of a match
for the all conquering PW. Labour have languished a bit locally in recent times but things seem to be picking up. If the kids placed Gordon in pole position two years in a row it shows that he has something that the electorate could
respond to. - Gordan cerainlty has the charm and it is easy to see why he gets the childrens vote .,however there are many who donot agree with his politics .Its
all wait and see come next May .
I was telling my daughter how I resonded to the Questions and quite honestly I dont think half of them understood about commiment ,dedication and never giving up .I may not appear a barrel of laughs
and Im sure the children were not interested in my length of service .
How many times i had seen the Queen indeed .
EDIT: PaulB here Sue.. just to remind you if you log in first as a member you can post LIVE on this page. All
members can post LIVE on this page but must log in..if you dont mind whether it goes up instantly or not then thats ok too. - i trust that the queen observed protocol
and curtseyed to you susan. - Brain you there
- no im here.
- Sue
You will find the youth fully understand what is being
said, they just need to be engaged.
Gordon has a way with the youth, i'v seen him in Aycliffe turn children from having very little in there life, to playing football as well as gaining social skills.
To watch Gordon in
action with the youth on friday evenings is a delight in itself.
So I was not surpriized he came first 2 years running, its not about having charm, its about getting out there and making a difference.
Watching children jon
our small club with few sklls and Gordon turn them round with years of patience is fantastic.
Many came to us never having kicked a ball in serious football
Gordon took them aside trained them, with encouragement and
time.
5 years ago they were losing games 12-0
last season they reached the sem final of the cup.
many players went on to bigger clubs
some stayed with the club and became even better players.
When Gordon and I
set the club up we decided it would be for many children a new adventure and many would never have played in a league, but gordon made it happen. - excellent post keith, i seem
to remember gordon and you being very active with the disaffected youth of aycliffe.
gordon is a charismatic cove, anything less would not work with todays youth.
similar in a way to our victor at the priory youth
club. - howard
and the clubs still going today - I am not like most who work with the young they are
very good,i am a person who needs to see them giving their best at all times ,but again that was in boxing and i am sorry to say I did not see that at the Priory Club they were into foorball most but again I did not give ithem much time
to come with me so I was in the wrong. - VIC;
You can't base your views on the young on a visit to the priory club.
There are a lot of youth around the Distict
doing a lot of good work, hopefully Vic you will recognise it soon
- what time was that photo taken paul?
- Keith Who said they are not and I said I was in in the wrong and that I should have given it more time .
- Howard I would say roughly 3.30 in the afternoon.
Kids were screaming as the waves bashed over the wall. I looked out to see what the excitement was and there we were...tsunami's everywhere !! Seemed to only last for a relatively short while though. I have another pic with kids on
bicycles dodging it. I got three pix only before the batteries on ancient Nikon completely expired. - that explains it now, the rough weather in the early morning
i missed, had my toe trapped in the duvet.
it all went quiet for most of the day then kicked off again about 3 p.m.
wished i had been at the seafront, i love seeing the waves coming over the top. - Glad to see all the barrers are standing up to the bad weather,yes I was one of the lads who put them up.
- How can I put a small video on the forum
- Hi Alan Im afraid we dont have a facility for
uploading films. - Reg is a fighter and has siezed this opportunity by the London authorties.
But what about here?? sadly like the last time this issue
of councils merging reared its head the political parties fought on grounds on who could get political control of any new councl rather than whats best for Dover Distrct.
Sadly that's likely to happen again, that is if Mr Pickles
even considers it.
Then of course even with merged councils the KCC will still be in place, so what happens there, we will still have 3 councils in Dover Town, Merged councils, and county, so some savings, but not as much as
wanted.
Then theres the old chestnut of accountability, will Dover get a say in a council that has merged for examnple with thanet and canterbury? or wll it's voice get swallowed up by those two?
Will meetings never be
held in Dover again, making it hard for members of the public who would like to visit the chamber on an issue but be unable to because of the distance?
Will local members get a say in a big council?
I have as i'v said in
past seen a District councl in South Wales become a unitary and after a few months that district town being the smaller got swallowed up by the larger ones, and meetings were no longer local therfore people lost interest, and the local
politics agenda was the biggest loser(as of course were the people) - seems like reg will get his way, the 3 london councils represent over 3 quarters of a million people, a
lot less than that in our proposed unitary authority.
the small number of people that attend council meetings will not be an issue in this change. - HOWARD;
I'm sure unitaries will come in the end and deep down i support them.
But there were big probs last time this was raised,
instead of looking in the best interests of local people, the 3 parties made 3
seperate submissions(whch s of course there right) but rather than try to reach some kind of compromise, they were all dsagreeing with each other.
With Mr Cameron's local agenda, I presume Mr Pickles will consult, upon doing so
if he gets same response as before will he want to impose t? - Keith.
KCC is to big.KCC will reduce in size and influence when East Kent Councils merge and will eventually
breakdown to clusters of Councils such as East Kent.
The report confirms Eric Pickles is asking/requesting that other Councils follow London Councils example
Dover would still have its own Councillors (reduced number )and the
various parties will have to be one voice to make sure Dover gets its fair share of the pie,Councillors would have to act for Dover not their respective party line.
With regard to meetings in Dover.Yes there will.As far as the public
having a voice in Chamber.No one has asked a question except me and I have only asked three in the whole period and have never received a satisfactory reply to my questions and then only allowed one supplementary question and only given
three minutes to do it in.
Dover councillors will have pro-rata influence in decisions,roughly twenty five percent.Very democratic! - i don't
believe that canterbury will be part of our unitary authority.
canterbury is a city and would rail against sharing control with the other three.
i can see the eventual demise of county councils if unitary authorities become
widespread. - Reg;l
have to say in todays climate unitary is the best way forward, although KCC reducing in size cant see there happening for 15/.20 years if
ever.
At the moment reg you have been able to shoot down the road to ask your question of the council, or question the planning dept etc.
In any new unitary authority this will no longer be the case
depending on which
councils may merge like canterbury, thanet, Dover(and howard already raises issues on canterbury)
a member of public would have to travel to thanet or canterbury to put a question.
A switch off for localism.
Decisions being
taken further afield.
Reduced number of councillors suggests to me the wards wll become larger, many to large or just the rght size at present.
If wards get larger that means councillors will find t even more difficult to get
around all the ward.
Reg, you say the councils will have to speak with one voice, hardly likely to happen, hasnt in all the years they have been in place.
I thnk that part of your Idea s a dream
I remain unconvinced
overall on how joe public will be able to keep ts cllrs accountable, and be part of decison making.
We should be encouraging local people to be involved by gong unitary is a step back wards in this
aim.
- Reg. we are already doing this as I explained to you.I was with Eric Pickles on Friday at that launch.
East Kent is already ahead of the game having
started the process with 4 services and now Waste.
We are already merging management functions , one shared with Thanet, another with Canterbury and the process will accelerate with the new financial settlement.
This as
you know is not unitaries but mutual agreements by individual authorities to merge.
It has to be done in a systematic way because of ongoing contracts for services which can't be disposed of without financial penalties, four sets
of terms and conditions which need to be aligned and agreed with staff and unions, looking at future accommodation requirement [i.e. less] and continuing to run services while this process is taking place.
The local government
Minister for decentralisation knows of our progress and has commended us for being ahead of the game.
Watty - Paulw
Bit of a smoke screen,
I have to applaud you on merging services,
but as you know(and i'm sure reg will follow up on)
Longer term it's the unitary route if the issues can be ironed out, which will result in huge savings.
But I will let reg
respond in more detail - Keith as Reg. knows the Unitary is off the table as far as government is concerned.
Eric Pickles does not want to go down the road of Counties
fighting the proposals , other than County being the Unitary.
So we are doing what is the next best thing ourselves rather than have it forced upon us.
There is no coercion just like minded Leaders taking the
initiative.
We will get as far as we can prior to May elections and let the new
Administration follow thru. This is not political issue but a practical one. It was happening under the last government and is being accelerated
under this one.
Watty - Reg I believe that we are heading this way anyway,but although it would save money probably not as much as you
think,eg the Waste contract with Shepway was projected to save £500,000 it is now down to about £150,000.
As far as Cllr are concerned as Keith points out,where we have 2 Cllrs for 1 ward because of the need to have 4x less Cllrs
then 1 Cllr will have to cover at least 2 current wards and this would make them all most full time and with that comes full time wages.It would also mean that some Cllrs could/would not stand as I couldn't do the job full time which
means Councillors could not do other jobs.
The other thing that appears to be happening is as the Council hive out services then some of the Council staff are transferred to outside bodies and this could be x4 Councils.Then the
new organisation would be top heavy and because they don't work for the Council anymore then redundancies would not be the Council's problem.So jobs would go at the bottom levels and without any redundancies but you can bet the Senior
Managers would still have a job.
As I said I think we are going that way,and it will save some money but at what cost! - Howard.
At the moment we are talking
about the four councils merging.Unitaries will evolve in the future in the meantime we need to merge and have one management structure.
The management structure of Dover (and obviously the three other councils ) costs fifty
percent of the wages bill.
One management team would save millions of pounds not including the very expensive pension structure of management.
The majority of staff would be required and stay in place.
Paul.
Correction.The London councils are ahead of the game.We are fiddling at the edges with a few services and a few councils.
We are talking about merging our councils.Unitaries will evolve in the future.In the meantime we need one
management team structure to make substantial savings.
We are by no means ahead of the game. - Paulw
You are fully aware that theres a big difference
between tinkering around the edges and merging the councils.
As Reg says the London borough';s must be ahead of your game?
hadn't realised it was a game to you
I have concerns as I'v indicated, but lets be upfront,
some services are being shared, some savings but the wages structure of 2 chief executives, and a clerk, plus all the other high pad staff remain. - Try again Reg.
We
are doing it already, they have only stated their intention to do it.
They will have to complete the same processes as us.
They will have to prepare a timetable for progress.
Leave us to get on with this game.
We were doing this long before you started posting.
Watty - actually the fuhrer is correct here, the coming together of councils in
sharing services was started earlier this year.
the three london boroughs are only talking about things.
i don't know of any other group of councils in the sticks doing the same.
wasn't a lady appointed to head the
shared services thing to back in the summer? - I done apost on this some weeks ago saying that parish council should also join up with each other.
- i remember that vic, cannot see that happening though.
as a for instance, say that two villages next to each other wanted their hall renovated and there was only money
for one to be done,
there would be warfare. - He knows Howard.
We, I personally have told him what is going on and then he comes back and calls for we
are already doing.
Looks good on the Forum and in the newspapers.
Not sure its not next May agenda he's playing to.
Watty
- Paul.
Correction and for the record I raised this subject over ten years ago as Leader of Dover District Council.
Unfortunately,as Keith has stated,Politics and politicians
got in the way of progress.---I have a feeling of deja vu. - Reg, as you will see from the Jt. Leaders statement from London Councils posted below ,it is not
quite as you imply.
Yes, they are looking.
They are starting to work out, what East Kent are actually doing.
Perhaps we can sell them the legal agreeements and East Kent Jt.Arrangements Committee set up to deal
with decision making across 4 Councils. They do not need "to re-invent the wheel".
You may have had the idea ten years ago,well done, but this is the process underway. Been working now for 3 years with Audit, followed up with
HR/Personnel & Payroll has gone to KCC.
Joint Waste is now signed up across 5 authorities with another neighbour considering joining in.
Reality.
Sorry if this is boring people.
Jt. Leaders London
Councils statement:
"In challenging times our priority is to protect high quality front-line public services, while preserving the democratic sovereignty of local authorities.
"Ensuring we can provide a high standard of
local services in today’s tough economic climate means thinking differently about how we operate, concentrating on what's important to the people we serve and ensuring we continue to care for the most vulnerable in our communities. Our
residents would expect nothing less.
"To achieve this in the age of austerity we need to seriously examine new ways of working including sharing service provision with other local authorities to deliver more for
less.
"That is why this week we have met and decided to potentially share every council service between our three councils. This may include merging services to reduce duplication and drive out needless cost. While we won’t rule
anything out at this stage, we expect to focus quite quickly on a few major areas where sharing and merging services is viable and good for the public. There are a number of areas, such as core democratic services where we are unlikely
to merge provision.
"The early focus will be building on the initial work to merge our children’s services departments which is already making solid progress, while also building the business case to share our adults’ services
departments.
“We will only go forward where there is a clear democratic, social and economic case to do so.
"In the coming weeks we will set up a series of working groups to develop and study options for three main areas:
environmental services, family services and corporate services.
"Our Chief Executives will report back in February next year with recommendations for action before we then consider the next steps, while our staff and our partners
will be fully consulted at every stage, with public engagement when firm plans emerge.
"We want to stress though that local priorities will still be driven by local people, and the democratic mandate rested in elected councillors
such as ourselves, will be retained.
"Our plans may be the first of their kind, but sharing of services in this way can no longer be viewed as a radical concept. It will soon become the norm for local authorities looking for
innovative ways to keep costs down while delivering high quality front line services."
- I feel that local Councils have enough to deal
with in their own respective administrative territory, and to merge various Councils would mean overstretching the competence of individual people, who could not possibly keep up with so much work in so many different
communities.
Kent United, Kent Invicta. No division of Kent! - Reg - they first suggested a Channel Tunnel over 150 years ago - suggesting something and it being possible
are quite different things.....
I can't see how fully merged councils in East Kent can totally work with such differing priorities - a struggling seaside town, a thriving city and two with majorly competing cross channel links -
decisions will always conflict if they get moved into another area. - paulw(the fuhrer one)
excellent read, dozed off for a bit, but will read the rest with
my mug of horlicks later.
you politicos certainly have a language of your own. - Reg, I thought it appropriate to add a comment, that your proposal might be
out-dated, as the MP Charlie Elphicke informs us by post today that Dover District Council has planned three new urban areas: at Whitfield, Sholden and in Middle Deal. The news is fresh, so I cannot state at the moment how extensive
these urban areas would be, but it seems that Dover District might need a few more Councils to run the whole lot! - alex
i think you are referring to planned new
developments, they are not planned to be urban areas. - The news is old , about 4-5 years old.
All been thru. consultation phases.
Watty - In reference to Reg's proposal, would it be feasible to merge four Councils in an area - East Kent - where various Councils have approved new large-scale
housiing developments? With so many more inhabited areas one would expect the need for more Council activity with more personel, and not the opposite. - Paul.
Thank
you for your rather wordy reply.Unfortunately it resembles other answers you have given me in the past.They never deal with the question/point made.
To simplify.The solution to avoid irresponsible expenditure of public funds is
to form an East Kent Council.
To progress to that end we need to merge all services of our four district councils under only one management structure.
This will save millions of pounds in economies of scale and removing
excessive/unnecessary management.
When sensible legislation is introduced the transition to a Unitary is simplicity itself. - So What's the issue Reg,
I've never disagreed with you and neither have the other Leaders.
It is the timing that matters and you don't want to grasp that.
All that you are doing is repeatedly churning up what is already understood and tacitly
agreed.
As you said you could not get it done, we are doing it but by democratic means and processes. - Paul.
Thank you for now
understanding and tacitily agreeing to progress to an East Kent Council.
The issue was you have not agreed in the past.
My question to you and your Council at Public Question time at the DDC full council on 3rd March 2010
included a request for you and your council to evaluate the savings to be made from the formation of an East Kent Council.
You did not agree and told me to go away and evaluate the savings myself as you did not have the time or money
to do so.
I suppose I must await your memoirs to find out when this magical transformation happened. - Paulw
The sharing of services started under a
labour admin. long before the conservatves gained control if you want to take it down the political route, you are incorrect giving the impression its your new idea.
I think your being very harsh on Mr Hansell who has been calling
for a unitary council for 10 years.
Sharing of services, is in itself to be welcomed, but not anything like what Reg Is callng for(as your fully aware)
It is interesting that you say you now share Reg's view, and look
forward to you, together with the conservative pushng for an
East Kent unitary authority - ''A SPD has been prepared for the whole of the Whitfield Urban Expansion
Area.''
Howard, in reply to your post, I found the above phrase in the Dover District home page.
It mentions ''urban''. - Public Consultation and
Exhibition
Prior to the formal adoption of the SPD, the Council has a statutory obligation to carry out public consultation with the community and other key stakeholders on the draft version of this document. Consultation on the
SPD runs for eight weeks from Monday, 4th October until Monday, 29th November 2010.
Also found this on the same Dover District Council official website. For any interested, it's not that easy, you have the right to say: No! if
this is your oppinion! - I sent round an email with this (Whitfield SPD) information on, a week or so ago, maybe more.
The emails I send are a mixture of Public
Information, up and coming events and some are local business news, so a good range of types and topics.
Let me know if you would like to added to my email address groups - your email address will not be compromised and they are
NOT sold on to third parties.
Roger - Roger, on the DDC website, it's not clear to me which community is part of the consultaion for the SPD urban Whitfield
masterplan. Is it the Whitfield community or all the Dover community? Could you let us know? Thanks. - 'Girls especially seem to get a great and noisy satisfaction from not
managing to get their hair wet, while at the same time tempting the ocean to do it if it dares. But it's all a delight to watch and enjoy.'
Excellent. Perhaps DDC might start a 'wet tee shirt competition' as part of the
tourism initiative? - As far as I am aware Alexander, it's the whole community, so perhaps it's extra important that all of the residents of Whitfield give their
views.
Dover has been given "Growth-Point" status, which allows us to get more money for our regeneration plans; if we stay a small (and small-minded) Town, we'll stagnate with no growth in anythin - housing, jobs,
regenerations etc. etc.
Dover people need to be brave and positive, but also have their voices heard, so that some excesses, if any are contemplated, are avoided.
I do believe in the "bigger picture", but we mustn't crush
the small guy on the way to achieving it.
Roger - The buzzword with both councils at the moment seems to be consultation. They are certainly interested in
feedback from the public perhaps like never before.
As well as the DDC situation mentioned below I would also urge people to get the DTC form mentioned in editorial above. It asks for feedback on many of the items that have been
discussed regularly here on doverforum...so I know its of interest to many.
They want to hear from you on our oft discussed topics such as the
River Dour Corridor.
and
Allotments
and
Toilets
and
The Visitor
Information Centre
Get the form and get YOUR view to them by Niovember 13.
Dont say they didnt ask! - Paulb
I went down at the weekend at filled
out my form in the main got a good reception - i am going to put the cat amongest the pidgeons here,
whitfield along with river are and i will repeat whitfield and river are
no longer classed as villages they become a suburb due the enormes amount of estates that have or in the proces of being built.this has been happening over the 60 years or so,due to people wanting to move
here?./ - We are a village thank you .
- I like to think that I live in Charlton Village
- And I live in Maxton.
Roger - I have now sent an email round to several hundred people, could
be as many as 1600 about the Dover Town Council consultation.
Here is a copy of that email.
"Good Afternoon
I hope this email is of interest to you, it's about the Town Council consulting with local Dover
people on how their/your, money, paid to Dover Town Council (in the Town Council's precept) is to be spent.
It's a full-on exercise and your views are sought on a range of subjects - from toilets to tourism and future
responsibilities.
The Mayor of Dover, Councillor Sue Jones says: "Dover Town Council is committed to total and thorough engagement with the people of Dover over the future of their services. It is no secret that Dover
District Council is looking to the Town Council to take extra responsibility in providing non statutory services. However, we are acutely aware of the initial and future costs this would involve for our precept payers and the potential
impact on the services we currently provide.
Therefore this unique survey and the opportunities to talk face to face with the Town Council are intended to identify the priorities of Dovorians and fully inform them of the
implications ensuring the Town Council has a strong indication of future expectations by the town’s residents.
At the end of the consultation Councillors will be better placed to decide what and how the Town Council provides
before budget setting in December. The District Council will then be able to prepare its own budgets accordingly and (hopefully) deal more effectively with the financial challenges it faces."
I have attached a Consultation
document to this email for you to complete and return it to the Town Council.
If you prefer, the form can be collected from the Town Council offices or downloaded from their website (www.dovertown,co.uk - it’s on their home page),
for completion and delivery.
The consultation form attached to this email has been checked for viruses, so is safe to download. It has a
range of issues they want your views on - afterall it is your money they're
spending.
Further, there will be a public consultation meeting at 6pm, Mon 8th November, at Dover Town Council, on this subject. All welcome.
Kind Regards
Roger"
As I have said on many
occasions, if you would like to be added to my email address groups, just send me an email; the emails are sent out blind, so you cannot receive any spam or scam emails from them, they are also NOT sold on to any third parties.
I
send Public Information emails - such as above;
Up-and-Coming Events - like the comedy night at the Town Hall;
Local business news - speciall offers, new shops opening
etc.
Roger - sue,river hasent been a village for 35 years,not since the town has encrouched into it,
- Sorry Brian but you are wrong .We have our Parish Church,Parish Council /We have open fields on two sides of our Parish .You could say Temple Ewell is not a Village as our Council Boundaries are joined .In 1987 the Boundary
Commision re instated us as a village .A battle was fought and won .You pay your high precept to Dover Town Council and leave us in River to manage on our precept.
My ward is joined to Alkham River has its own community facilities
.
All building since I have lived here for forty years has been within our Parish Boundary .The Roads of Lewisham Road are all within our Parish Confines .There are many many people who live in River who would have you put in
the Stocks in Market Square Your crime to dare to suggest we are part of Dover .No way We have a natural boundary with Temple Ewell not Buckland . . - sue,sorry but
its still a suburb how ever you dress it up.and its the boundry people who need to go in the stocks,not me. - Sue, of-course River is a village, and part of the
Garden of England. It's a shame that Whitfield's community cannot democratically remain a village, which is what I believe they wanted. I sincerely hope River remains a village. - Thank You Alexander .Brian are you Brian Taylor if so I understand your comments .
Its the envy that brings on these comments .
- Sorry incorrect
should have read Brian Dixon .Aplogies to Alan .I see we were afforded a mention in the DE - Brian what did you Apologies to me for why is Mrs S Nicholas having a
go at now not done anything. - Sorry posted twice thats old age.
- alan
according to dubris
you got well and truly handbagged by susan. - Roger, People do not 'live' in Maxton, they merely exist?
- sue,so you are saying that river is a village,let me put this to you,if thats the case maxton,aycliffe,tower hamlets and all the other estates are villages as well but come under the banner of dover.so your argument that river
is a village has no grounds of an argument at all.its a suburbe full stop. - No Brian we are a village .Sholden ,and Gt
Mongeham are classed as villages with like River their own Parish Council .They are not classed as suburbs of Deal .
We have a very good Parish Counci our own Parish Village Sign .I do not come under the Town Wards of Dover
.
Let the arguement continue .
Our Boundary stops at the traffic lights London Road Crabble Junction continues, to London Road River With Kearsney Bowling club within our parish .We go up as far as St Radigunds Abbey at the
top of Minnis Lane .Green FIelds WE donot have huge estates .Those houses off Lewisham Road all fall within river Parish confines .I have the planninmg document which states where our village confines lie .
That is the real point
why do you locals call them estates .It is not ,each of the places you name have their own identies why call them estates .Sounds like something from Dell Boy.
* *
EDIT NOTE: Sue dont forget to log in before you post,
then it goes up on the page instantly. If you dont log in it goes on 'delay'. Paul - Alan
according to dubris you got well and truly handbagged by Susan.
Never felt A Thing, This Paper gets worst nothing in it but people blowing there own trumpet and taking the P*** about are local MP who has at lest got of his backside and is doing something for this town.All I have heard this past few
days is do we live in a village or a suburb dose it matter you are living be thankful.I nearly died about 4 weeks ago with a massive hart attack and some might say about time. I thank god every day for what I have now come on you are all
better than this Have Fun. Say what you really think and don't pull any punches. We can all take it. - sue,thats what makes river a suburb,or in your words an housing
estate. - Brian
Does it matter? - of course it matters keith, here in the upper clarendons we
have all the requirements to claim village status.
we even have our own village idiot, plus many more aspiring to the title. - Howard
who holds the
title at the moment? - kieth,of course it matters.
- Our Prime Minister's, David Cameron - a Conservative, buzzword is ' Fairness'.
As a teacher of
economics, the meaning of the word always provided food for thought:
Does it mean equality - which provided the justification for socialism/communism? Or
Does it mean being rewarded for you do - the basis of capitalism?
For
example, when I first married women had the option of paying a lower rate National Insurance Stamp or the full rate - the latter secured them a full State Pension.
Although very poor, being a 'belt and braces' sort of person, I
opted for the latter.
Time passed and I had time off sick. My employers did not provide sick pay and we were short of money. I applied for sickness benefit to be told that as a married woman I was not entitled to it. This I took
up with my MP, Peter Rees - a Conservative.
I pointed out that I was paying full National Insurance Stamp and as men were entitled to sick pay, so should I. He agreed and took the matter to the House of Commons on a Private
Members Bill.
Peter Rees argued there, that on the grounds of 'Fairness' from the capitalist perspective - I should be rewarded for making the same contributions as men do - and was successful.
I have now retired and
received a full State Pension, which I have EARNED through the contributions that I have made.
However, it would appear that in the name of 'Fairness', from the equality perspective, women who have not made those financial
contributions will be 'compensated ' and will received the Full State Pension too?
Lorraine - As coined by Sir Michael Caine himself 'Not a lot of people
know that'!
To think that Long John Silver and his dastardly buccaneer's were about the confines of Dover with wicked piratical deeds in mind. Many a pirate has met a nasty end by Long John's hand, laughing at Silver's fears
behind his back. And its all thanks to Dover's coven of witches watching all over their bubbling cauldron in their lair in Snargate Street on 'All Hallow Even'
Great story PaulB for Hallow'een, the night for Banshees and
witches to collect their ever expanding haul of lost souls on a long cold night. - Brian
To me it doesn't matter - It is not true! I was not out last Halloween!
- No but my mum was lol
- not wot she told me
earlier.any whiniging and i will post a picture of you in a short skirt,if that dosent work i can get hold of a certain baby pivture of you.you know the one i mean. - Brian I DARE YOU
- mel,dont ever dare me.or i will.
- Go on i DARE YOU
- mel,is that a double dare,on the way to your mums as i type this.
- Ok but she wont answer the door to
trick or treaters - she knows im going around,gave her a phone call 5 mins ago.
- Ok Brian
whatever you say my lovely. - mel,scared then.and bugger just saw your mum fly past on her turbo charged dyson.got the burn marks to prove it.lol.
- Im never scared of ANY MAN Brian. Should men be scared of me ? hell yes!
- mark said hes
not - Stephen he has to sleep lol
- Melissa
I don't know you but from Mark's postings he
sounds a nice guy. I do wonder who the boss is.
Out here in the sticks, I'm the boss.
- Stephen wolf in sheeps clothing springs to mind for some reason lol
- Well i had better get the wife to make my night cap
- No comment Night Stephen
- Wife, make my coffee, now
- Stephen did you get it made for you?
- Short piece about the People's Port bid can now be found on my blog at rhysdgriffiths dot wordpress dot com.
- having read that rhys i have a suspicion that my unguarded comments may get a mention in your esteemed organ next week.
- Excellent picture there Ian,
well done mate. What a front page should be for. - Lovely picture there Ian, but one does have to wonder, why we had to hear about this in the paper only a day or so before it.
Would have been a really good story for the actual event, but there you go one of the best kept secrets only a few privileged to know. - There is no real substance in
what Charlie and his people are proposing, it will see the Port privatised with the real money going to whoever puts up the multi millions to secure the purchase. The Port has always developed to keep up with the trade its customers
generate while being a Trust Port and I see no real reason why it cannot continue to do so, apart from the quest for a short term one off financial fix. - Its not about owning
it its about having a vote in what they wont to do surly thats a good thing. - is that you alan directly behind dame vera in the photo?
- If not, there's someone else just like him. Perish the thought.
- Thank you Gents, yes there to
support looking a bit worse for wear these days i thought after the hart attack I would be 100% but maybe its early days yet. it was nice to se so many Dover Forum Members there two. - Martin of Deal, what you have said is like saying that your mortgage lender would get his hands on all the capital appreciation on your house, and any rental income you might
earn.
PG. - Who knows the difference between a privatisation sell-off and a community buy-out? Look at
www.peoplesport.org.uk - howard,i can confirm thats alan aka shrek standing behind dame vera.lol
- m all
for more details on charles proposals
are these financial bods and transport mnisters correct in saying charles proposal is a dead duck? - keith
the main details
are on the peoples port thread, it seems to be going ahead subject to goverment approval. - sorry to drag this down but the photo demands a caption
competition.
chas to the dame "ok i know it was you but being a gentleman i will own up to dropping one". - dame vera to chaz,did you need to bring shrek
with you.lol, - Ok Brian now your in the firing line Pics to fallow
- The American turist: Hi there,
guys! Is this the queue for the bus to the Castle? - Oh dear looks like a bromance fallout between Alan and Brian lol
- VERA LYNN
"Have the camera's gone so I can stop this false smile "
lol
- mel,still
friends,thats his nickname.is that allright fiona. - some nice shots there, good work by a multi agency team.
i remember the town council first talking about this
one, great that it has come to fruition thanks to them and their partners.
paul
i recognise sue, ronnie and jan, who are the others?
always nice to put a name to a face. - i reconize jan tranter,the lady behind ronnie philpot whos face i reconize but put a name to the face.
- Ah no Howard Im afraid I dont have the names. There was a larger group than shown and I just wasnt able to get everyone's name. But if anyone knows who they all are let us know.
I know Derek Leach in bottom shot left.
And the tall guy in the top shot is Ashley Price local policeman. Those names just off the top of my bonce though so hopefully they're right. - It was good to
see that our project for that area was finally finished, and we had that very small opening this morrning, hopefully members of the public will be able to sit and enjoy.The lady behind Ronnie is the community officer for Tower Hamlets
not sure who the other lady is, the tall guy in the yellow vis jacket is from White Cliffs Counrty side. Hope thats a little more helpfull Howard and Brian. - thanks
for info jan, i should have spotted derek leach, have enough of his books, a leading light in the dover society and river parish council if my fading memory is still working. - oiii alan you get worse by the day.lol
- I happened to be walking by at 10.30 and saw Alison the
Community Warden for Tower Hamlets and Paul from the White Cliffs Counrtside Project and learned about the opening,first I had heard of it,it just happens that Morrison's were cleaning the building down at the same time.
I was
talking to them because I have never seen the River Dour so low with water,in the section from Beaconsfield to Cherry Tree,there is little running water,the ducks have given up swimming and now walk,and where the Dour was is now just
mud.I am told that Envio Agency say it is because of lack of rain!!!! - I have not looked at that bit of the Dour recently but the bit by Morrisons looks even deeper than usual,
how strange.
I walk past Morrisons nearly every day and have often thought it was a shame that patch of grass was fenced off, good to see it opened up.
I wonder why this was not done in the summer when so many would have
enjoyed sitting there. - Jan there is still a fence/railing around the area and I believe it is for Health & Safety reasons. There is access of course but through a spring
sprung gate and I beleive too it had to be a sprung gate for Health & Safety reasons. There was as you can see in the editorial above a whole brace of organisations working on it and as I understand it they simply didnt have it ready in
time for summer. I dont have access to the reasons, but am guessing that there were a lot of chefs in that particular kitchen, and this would have the been the reason I'm sure.
But there is always next summer, and there is talk
of added flowers, not flowerbeds or anything like that, but the wilder haphazard flowers like daffodils, crocusses..or maybe even bluebells...so it should work out nice.
Yes indeed John the river isnt looking too full...maybe it
doesnt rain as much as we think.
One amusing thing of note...I see people are throwing coins into the water from the little Morrisons bridge. People are desperate for a bit of change in fortune so figure a coin in the Morrisons
'fountain' will do the trick. Ermmm probably not... but then maybe its better to live in hope.
Alan always best to put the jokes onto our very successful Jokes Page see menu on left. The Jokes Page is thriving with lots of our
'funny guys' contributing over there. More than 45,000 viewers there as I write. - Caption for the Dame Vera Lynn picture ....
Charlie Elphicke -
"Fabulous. They're all cheering and waving! But why do they think my name is Alan?" - maggies-k,i like you.lol.
- Although it’s not really news any more, it’s been a sad week for our town with the news that Cllr Roger Frayne passed away on Sunday last after a long and debilitating
illness.
I’ve been privileged to know Roger as a friend for a few years, and would like to pay tribute to a giant of a man, a legend in Dover with a love of music and the great outdoors who had a strong sense of right and wrong.
It used to be a common sight to see Roger cycling to work, he always had a cheery wave and, when he caught up with me, a barbed comment about driving a gas guzzler. For years he lovingly tended his allotment and waged a losing war with
the badgers up there that frequently sabotaged his vegetables, which turned into a long-standing tongue in cheek rant at my wife Michelle for Dover Town Council refusing to take a machine gun to the perpetrators. His music quizzes were
legendary – and as quizmaster, unrivalled.
I know Astrid, his daughter, a little from having met her at innumerable Conservative fund raisers, likewise Christine, his partner since I’ve known Roger; to the both of them, I extend
my deepest condolences at the loss of such a lovely man.
The last time I saw Roger was as he was being wheeled past the Town Hall a few weeks ago by Christine, and he looked desperately ill as he has done for quite a while now.
The Roger I shall remember is the man who gently poked fun at the ridiculous, who spoke his mind and who put heart and soul into representing the Town to the very best of his ability, which was consummate at all times. I think many of
us have known that this sad day was coming, but it doesn’t mean his loss is anything but the saddest shock. Rest in peace, Roger, you will be sorely missed.
I have heard talk of some form of tangible memorial to Roger Frayne
being planned. This was discussed in The White Horse last night, and I know Jeanette Harper is going to post something about this when something solid is planned. I’d like to say that I whole heartedly support this idea, and will
contribute when plans are in place, and I know many others will want to do likewise.
- Not being a member of your forum I would like to
take this opportunity to send my condolences to Roger's family, especially Astrid. I met him 10 years ago and he would often make me dissolve into terrible giggles during dull governor meetings! I will miss him.
Does anyone
know when his funeral is as I would like to pay my respects, as would others from school. Thank you. - Priivate Family Funeral
- A lovely testament to a good man Andy - well said.
I don't know when his funeral is Liz, but I understand it is very close friends and
family.
Roger - Golly,Alan Taylor-whatever do ypu mean?
- I
dont think it includes close friends Roger .I know I did my bit by visiting him sending cards (funny )and carring on the good work for him in his ward of Temple Ewell and Lydden where he was well liked and respected ,.
We do our bit
for the living - I understand that is true Sue - sorry I didn't know at the time of the previous
posting.
Roger - Dear Barry W, would you be kind and take off the posts the Golly and The Hair Cut in view of the post of the Gentleman who passed away,
slightly bad timing on my Part i don't think they should be there while other forum members are paying there Respect's I am sorry if these caused any offense. - Alan
it's actually me PaulB you are needing for this one....okay will remove shortly as I see the problem. But everyone will know there was no offence intended as the jokes were posted prior to the situation.
But always best to put
Jokes on the Jokes Page...that way people know what to expect and are less offended by anything. Some Jokes in a normal situation, on a normal page, can cause offence but on a Jokes Page people are more receptive.
Although having
said that anyone remember the furore about Roger's Joke and that was on the Jokes Page, harmlessly enough or so we thought....it went national, national newspapers and tv.
Gulp! - I certainly remember that PaulB and talk about blown out of all proportion; nothing racist, but it was about the perception of the Governmemt's
immigration policy, so I got blasted as you say.
Roger - PaulB thank you so much sorry again and will only post jokes on the jokes page.
- tut tut alan,how can you get them two mixed up.ones tall grey haired irish man,the other tall balding and a tory.lol
- You obviously wouldn't expect a Labour Councillor to support an idea to give the local peole a say in how the Port is run would you ? Be honest.
With around 6 months to go
before local elections, Gordon is making political posturing, rubbishing the idea, hoping he can get the elctorate on his side.
The People's Port may not raise as much money as the DHB idea, but it will give local people a
greater say in how it's run and will financially benefit the Town.
These comments are nothing short of scaremongering for political advantage. If Gwyn Prosser had come up with this idea, Gordon and other Labour Councillors would
be espousing its benefits.
Don't be fooled, these comments have nothing to do with the merits of the scheme.
The Mayor supports the scheme - Sue is a Labour
Councillor.
Roger - Yes Roger, but then there are labour councillors and labour councillors.
- Now we start to see alternative views
As a Dovorian i want the best for Dover, I hope charlie has got it right, but apart from the politicans locally there are a number of
people in his own party that think the figures don't stack up, and one being the ex transport minister.
It's going to be a bumpy ride and i hope charlie has the answers - Just to let you know that UKIP in Dover have had ameeting and we are also saying no to any plans that see the Port of Dover sold off to any one,and do not back our MP's PLANS also I am a life member of the UNITE. UNite are
asking me as a person to back their own Campaign against the propsal by the Governments plans to privatise our port.I have Email back that is a yes from me and the UKIP party . - There is one proposal re. privatisation of Dover Port: that of DHB. Gov. has consulted with local people and Dover Port stakeholders and customers on this proposal.
There is no other proposal to privatise Dover Port -
including that of Charlie Elphicke - on which the Government is consulting the people.
Charlie's proposal, which is to sell Dover Port for 400 million pounds, has a facade to it called: 'the only alternative', and 'big society
people's port'.
It is neither of these.
Scores of people turned up to see the local MP present a 'port launch', and two days later the MP claimed in 10 Downing Street that 'the community' backs his proposal.
As his self-
proclaimed port trust does not come from an Act of Parliament or from a decision of the Secretary of State, he has no authoritative competence to make binding decisions for Dover's Port. DHB are acting upon authority, being the official
Trust Board and their proposal to privatise Dover Port is the object of consultation. As for Charlie's u-turn, from campaigning against privatisation to being all for it, the numbers that turned up at the Seafront explain it all!
- And how can anyone put their faith in a proposal from a politician who said The Regeneration Of Dover, would go ahead knowing that they knew Asda was not coming to this
town, because of an issue over the type of building they wanted to put up and DDC dragging there feet. Asda got fed up with DDC, as did a company some years ago who was going to invest in this town. The Council took so long they went.
To me this sounds like sour grapes because there is someone willing to try for this town, instead of siting in a council chamber slaking the other party off they want to see this town grow. People have very long memories and they
will judge what Labor did in dover,the same as they will do to this lot in power at moment.
If you are all so concerned about this town work together to get it back to what it was or is that two much to hope for from are town
leaders, We are watching how you all perform and we will make up our own Minds. - DDC and DTC are not responsible for the decision that must be taken in London, which
involves public consultation. DHB are not under the authority of either of the two Councils, it is a constitutional issue that must be resolved in London. - DDC and DTC are
not responsible for the decision. but they were for what happed to this towns regeneration or the lack of it and don't forget get we did not hear anything from Labor while it was going on because they know they are responsible for this
towns lack of investment, because they put to many obstacles in the path of any one wanting to come to this town. Roger summed it up well in his post scaremongering for political advantage. it wont wash. - you are right about the small turnout alex, whether it was the short notice or because people thought it was not open to the public we will never know.
interesting to
see the press release giving another side of the story.
the thing is, none of us know who else has put in a bid.
at the launch we saw a top p & o executive voice great enthusiasm for the scheme. maybe the people at the top of
dubai ports have a better idea though. - howard mcsweeney, I believe there are three dubai ports, the French and A Scottish Comp, Hammond nothing to do with our
Hammond Thank God. - alan
i meant dubai ports authority though i think they are called dp world nowadays, the port of calais have issued a statement that they are
not putting in a bid.
i have no knowledge of the company you mention. - Dose any one know if we have a credit union in Dover
- There was one being run in Dover as i recall meeting the chairperson or organiser
but that was in the days of lesley ives
not sure if it still
going - roger posted on the members page that there was one, think it was on the "brighthouse" thread.
- Credit Union has been set up across East Kent.
Met the guy running it in passing yesterday.
You should be able to get info at Castle St Gateway or alternatively give give DDC Community Development a
ring.
Watty - Of course Dubai World Ports owns P & O.
Monoply interests in extensive port interests comes into play here, I
believe.
- Paul Watkins Thank you so much
- Nah. Dubai has got heaps of
desert and heaps of cash, and invests the cash to have assets, and gain a profit for when the oil runs out. Tout simplement! - POLITICS POLITICS - now see why Dover gets
nowhere when political leaders are only interested in the next election. It was ever so .......... - Alan, it wasn't DDC dragging their heels over DTIZ, it was ASDA holding
it up and not signing; when it came to the crunch, they were not confident of taking the business off of Morrisons and Tesco (or ALDI, NETTO and the Co-op).
Getting DTIZ right, instead of getting it quick, is now the order of the
day.
If we are divided over the Port sale (not selling it is NOT an option) , we'll end up with a very bad deal, so let's go for the deal that brings the most to Dover and the people of Dover.
Roger
- The best deal about the port is staying as it is at this time. And Roger the best deal if it has to go is not our MP's plan, anyway way Dover will
never see a return of funding back into our town not in our life time anyway,if it does go then let it be done with a fast return of funds for the town, and by going the DHB way would see a return of beween 5 two 10million pounds on the
very day of the signing over, and that is true it is all down in writing and I along with others I think you was at that meeting to in the DTC office when both our MP AND D.H.B. WAS TELLING US of their plans.
But again UKIP along
with UNITE UNION WHO WE HAVE JUST JOINED UP WITH IN TRYING TO SAVE THE PORT.
And yes I am Chairman of UKIP in Dover and also A life member of the UNITE UNION.I have been working sometime to get us both working with each other
over the sell of the port.
We do not want to see the port sold off to anyone or group, - Roger read all your notes on DTIZ and it says one of
the main problems was DDC wanting to control the car parking. - David
please dont take this whiter than white stand
your political party would love to control Dover
town council
ts all about debate
- Vic very interesting post there, and interesting to see that you/ UKIP share the same positioning as the Labour Group re
The Port. Rather unusual to see Labour and UKIP having anything in common but there we are...quite a turnup.
Labour have remained consistently opposed to any kind of privatisation of the Port. Its not new. I have some pictures
somewhere on file showing Gwyn holding a.. " No to Port Privatisation" banner from several years back. - the more i look at this issue the more it seems that it
is very much an election football.
i did not see one politician on the balcony at the launch that was not of the blue persuasion.
ukip and the reds are clearly against the proposal, nothing from the yellows yet, which
suggests they are not in favour either. - The Mayor of Dover was there Howard and she's a Labour (Town) Councillor.
John, yes there was an issue about car-
parking but it wasn't what made ASDA pull out.
PaulB, does that mean that the Labour group are against any Western Docks/T2 development, or against any of the proceeds of the sale (staying as it is, is NOT an option) coming to
Dover ?
Roger - i stand corrected roger, but i never see sue as a political figure when on mayoral duties.
- it seems strange that asda pulls out of ditz only to say that they have taken over nettos?right near morrisons.so whats the problem here.
- Roger, if selling Dover Port is the only option, then I think we can all agree that Charlie wants to sell the Port of Dover. How he manages to assert the opposite, that he is making
it become a 'people's port' goes beyond comprehension. This is what the local People here have all realised! As for pre-election campaigning, something about not selling Dover Port and it remaining a national asset, well, I have
enough souvenirs from Charlie that arrived by post at my door.
But not selling Dover Port IS an option, so I must correct you here. Constitutionally, it is an option, and the consultations with the public in Dover and the stake-
holders and customers of the Port specifically state that NOT selling our Port IS an option! - Its my belief that asda wanted a metal type building then put a facade around
it like Morrisons have done, but council said no it had to be all brick. surely there must be records some were why won't DDC tell the people what really happened and stop all this. - agree alan rumours and counter rumours surround the failed project, these would stop if the public were furnished with more information.
- ROGER
Everyone s a free agent and as you know its the labour Dstrict council group and ex mp that have opposed the privatisation
im not sure what the labour groups
view is on the town councl
maybe j tranter s amos or other labour persons can say.
Of course the mayor has before (rightly or wrongly) not supported the labour group, so i dont know if hers was a personal decision or a labour
town cllrs decison - Dose any one know if its true train fire at sittingbourne dover supporters stranded at station hope they weren't on the train
- 1. If Mike Eddy had bothered to read the Peoples Port material which is in the public domain, he would have realised that it is actually a co-operative venture using the
framework of a charitable industrial and provident society to raise the funding. How much more socialist can you get?
2. It isn't just Charlie's scheme. It was mostly constructed by Neil Wiggins and myself, along with some City
lawyers and investment bankers. Some months ago the Big Society initiative was launched and it seemed to fit so well that we adopted that model. With the exception of that , the bid is totally non-political and to attack it on party-
political grounds is dishonest.
3. The Labour hierarchy are just mischief-making for the purpose of scoring political points. Once again I have to stress that we are not promoting a sale of the port, we are trying to buy it for
the town to prevent it being sold off to foreign interests. - Well,Well Well, first we had our MP saying it was all his own thing ,now we have Mt Garstin saying it was
his,come on Lads who scheme was it,?so what you are saying Mr Garstin it is you we should be bameing and not OUR MP ,FOR A VERY BAD SCHEME THAT CAN NOT WORK,well that lets the MP off the hook,he should be happy about that. - interesting point vic, we all assumed that charlie had invented the scheme all on his own.
- O Vic you
are so good at twisting words, you must be a reincarnation of Edward Lear. The structure is a product of many peoples' minds and not down to any one individual.
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
PG. - Who would pay the 400 million pounds back with the interest to the creditors, Peter? Dover Port would have a debt amounting to that sum.
And how would the money be paid
back? DHB might have a profit of 20 million pounds a year, or may-be not, but there are various schemes up for discussion, including pension, Dover funding and T2. If it all starts with a debt of 400 million pounds, then Dover would not
see any income worth mentioning for a few generations to come. No thank you! - Better a State asset and no debt for Dover than a collossal debt and no local benefits from the
Port. That way the Port would remain British and Charlie couldn't invent tales about people wanting to sell the White Cliffs! - how very pretentious
peter.
alex
a lot of people are up in arms about charlie pretending that the white cliffs are up for sale. - Pretentious, moi?
- Peter, it's pointless, as the Secretary of State will make a decision, unless Charlie has managed to derail this decision making from the Secretary of State for Transport to
10 Downing Street! - If the general election result had been different, we would be pursuing this option with Gwyn to prevent the port falling into foreign hands. Most of the
opposition to our scheme is tribal party-politics. - No, Peter! Gwin was and is decisively against privatisation of Dover Port, and that when his own Party, Labour, was in
Government. He prooved then to be sincere and has not changed his mind.
Charlie, in opposition, was against Port privatisation, and for the Port remaining a State asset. Then he quickly changed tune, so soon as he was elected
MP.
If he had stated then what his intentions would be, I daresay here in Dover few would have voted him! - Both Charlie and I are quite clear about one thing- if the
Secretary of State decides to NOT sell the port, and so it remains a trust port, nobody will cheer louder than us. This bid is intended to prevent it being sold abroad. If the Government is intent on selling it, (as the Brown government
was) we want to buy it on behalf of the people to stop it falling into the wrong hands. The only downside of the trust port status is that T2 will never happen. - T2, Peter, was
the sole reason why DHB asked for the Port to be privatised. If there is no plans to build up T2, then the privatisation proposal has no foundation left!
The only questions left open in this case are the pension scheme and a revenue
to Dover Town and District. And the status of the promenade, and local maintenance at Eastern Docks.
If DHB have not dropped their T2 plans, then your plan, if it does not include a T2 project, is unrealistic and unnecessary. It would
not be taken seriously by the Department for Transport, as the most expensive issue, and the primary issue, behind the DHB sale proposal, is not taken into consideration. - Actually Alexander, it would be impossible to bind a private purchaser to a commitment to build T2. Any private owner would do their utmost to wriggle out of such an obligation in order to maximise returns from the port as
it is now. Several studies I have seen say that the eastern docks can handle projected traffic growth until 2030 or 2035 and such studies could be used to defer the T2 investment. We on the other hand recognise the importance of T2 for
the town and will push for that development to happen as soon as practicable. So- DHB say without privatisation there will be no T2. We say that with a selloff to a private buyer there won't be a T2 either. Therefore go with our
proposal if you want T2 to happen. It wont happen tomorrow but happen it will. - T2 ought to happen, but not following the plans of DHB, which do not recognise the carbon
emission laws. Eastern Docks reaps a yearly profit od 20 million pounds, hence it is absurd to sell Eastern Docks from a financial point of view, added to the moral point that it is national sovereign territory and should be considered
part of Dover.
Western Docks, if functional as T2 one day, would also reap a profit, as Eastern Docks. The trunover at Eastern Docks minus the profit covers many expenses, hence Eastern Docks is self-financing and profitable.
A T2
terminal at Western can be built following proposals that have been presented to the Minsitry for Transport, and so too can revenues for Dover be achieved, Town and District.
As I am author of a representation, I follow my own
proposal, and have consigned it and two sets of additional comments to the appropriate address in London, within the various time-limits.
I am supprised that Charlie did not consign his representation and comments to the same address
as everyone else did and wait, but chose instead to go to 10 Downing Street. In so doing, he demonstrated little confidence in the decision-making and little or no respect for all the other representartions and proposals made to the
Transport Secretary. - I was at the public meeting when the DHB turn round and said"At this time T2 was not needed and might never be build and if you read what I have put
over all the posting i have done about the port some where you will find,I said that to but along time ago.We are going to see bigger ships but less of them ,that will make room for the C/Ships all they will have to do is make the births
deeper. - The problem is that the port doesn't need T2 but the town does, to free up Snargate St and Townwall St from the traffic and reunite our town centre with the
seafront as it was before Mr Hitler's intervention. Alternatively it's £3bn to make the A2 a motorway from Dover to Brenley Corner. Anyone got any better ideas? - T2 as DHB
envisage would not free Snargate Street, Peter, as this is west of Western Docks!
T2 would not free Townwall Street either, following DHB plans, as it would absorb a prospected future increase in traffic, and not the actual traffic
capacity of Eastern Docks. Townwall Street's present function in terms of traffic has nothing to do with Mr. Hitler's intervention, as it became a main artery road owing to the docks.
I can't see any DTIZ plan being successful as
long as no tunnel passes under Townwall Street. - Sorry Peter wrong again, The western Side of the port is only used by the C/ships HGV now are free to come to the port by
the M20 or the M2 and even if T2 went ahead it would still only be used by the C/SHIPS ,SO WHY DOES DOVER NEED IT ?and how would it help ? - Peter, there is a possibility
to oppose DHB's plan, without running the gauntlet and finding creditors for T2.
Google 'British carbon emission laws', on the front page place 3 is an interesting article. - hang on a minute wasnt it the torys who wanted to sell it in the first plaice,acording to g.prosser and the last labour goverment.or are we playing polictical scare mongering
again. - Brian,again you are dead right there and the cost was very high to them and their leader at the time Mr P Walkins.We in Dover do not forget the pass.
- That is part of the problem The future is what we look to .You cannot live in the past .If that were the case I would not step outside my door .The future holds the challenge
.There are no problems just challenges - sue,we all look to the future,talk is cheap.its time to stop talking and start doing.
- Brian ,again dead right in what you say.
- dp world announced last month that they had $5 billion dollars in their
coffers to be used for their expansion plans. today the head honcho mr mohammed sharaf announced that they were issuing a bond prospectus to raise a further $2 billion. things like that do not change that fast normally, sounds like they
are planning on buying something on the quick. - Howard,you are not saying it is for our port of Dover are ,that is not in the rule book(Ha.
HA, Good post. - well spotted vic!!
i had to be careful in what i inferred from the report. - Not even if they
add 30 silver pieces to the 7 billion dollars, Howard! The answer will be No! - All this scaremongering about selling the White Cliffs, Dover Castle and goodness knows what
else, is pure nonsense - it's a business pure and simple.
Gas, electricity, water, anything else we use in Dover is owned by overseas companies; playing Devil's Advocate, what's wrong with selling the company that organises the
ferries across the Channel ? They're not selling our heritage, just a business.
It's healthy not to have the Town Council, District Council and MP, all controlled by one central body.
Perhaps Charlie hasn't been directly
involved in the LDF, SPL and other "Growth Point" type of talks - he may have been, but I don't know.
Vic is causing trouble for his own political ends, no matter the damage it will do to the District's
future.
Roger - Roger
There is no scaremongering here its about concern for our future.
You mention privatised companies already and have to say
just look at some of the ones you refer to vast profits but prices rarely reduce.
It seems to me Roger that you feel no one should be critcal of the
Conservative party and all the splits within
but it's okay for
you and others to contnue to slag off the labour party.
It has the same effect Roger.
please be consistent if you use this as part of debate - Im appalled at
the scaremongering that is being spouted on this forum .The last thing I need on a busy Monday morning is a picture of Vic spouting off .When an election is called and it will be soon sadly then we can get political until then stop
stirring .I can put up with smiley Gordon he argues well and does his job of opposition leader .Cllr Watkins to his credit does not enter the debate .A gentleman .I think he has more to concern himself with at present .Like I said and
was correccted you cant get blood out of a stone ,.There are still people out there who donot see what state our ciountry is in .Years of bad money management have led to this .There are the few who bring in the money the rest
well?? - Thank you to the forum for printing the above,and it does show us all that the blues are not working with each other and that goes not only about Whitfield,
We should also look at the stand our MP is making about the Hospital.I told you all some time ago that right or wrong that the Hospital is going at the Buckland site,How do I know?because I am a member of the NHS east Kent Hospitals
University Foundation Trust,and it was only about 3weeks ago that I was Told by the Chairman of the above Trust after ameeting ,"That the Hospital for dover can and only go on the Buckland site,and any fighting over that is only going
to slow up the Building of it.
It was only lastweek that in all our Doors we had a lovely very pleasing to the eye in colour Leiflet and in there was a photo of our MP with others saying he is still fighting for a new site
for the hospital,and you can see by what I have wrote that what he is saying is not right and should not be puting that in print,which makes out that the fight for puting the Hospital on a new site is still going on,and where the
Hospital might go is still on the cards.
And he and the D.D. C. know that is not the case.He should be telling you and me the true story, and that is "If Dover is going to have a new Hospital it is going to be on the old site of
Buckland and no other site and That is the true facts. - quite right vic, buckland is the hospital, all the other stuff is "pie in the sky".
charlie should stop
misleading people. - Ok so where does all this nonsense leave us ? Cynical me suspects they will build the houses and privatise the port over the objections of the
public as usually happens, followed by crocodile tears from C E who will insist he was on his constituents side all along. If he is presumed to have "done his best" the naive will continue to offer him their support. Meanwhile those
who gained from this shoddy abuse of democracy will be on their way to the bank and probably will choose one in Bermuda. - As we can see by one of the post by the Standin
Chairman of the D.D.C that the Blues are geting desperate and some are even in despair and that is just their leaders,they are not even in control of their own emotions as you can see by that post,let alone a council.it is there now for
all to see. Thank you. - Mr Davis Thank you so much for your very good post,Please post again.
- Taking the politics aside
I want the best for Dover, im concerned that senior tories in westminster are saying charlies plans are not workable.
I'm concerned we are selling off the port to cheaply(if we
getr that far)
I'm concerned that Dover will accept second best by the DHB offerng Dover residents £5m out of a sale of £800m come on guys get real!!!! and even if we were silly enough to take the £5m
where would it
spent, it would help but wouldnt have a big effect on Dover.
Im concerned our MP went into the election opposed to the prvatisation of the port, and is now in the fore front of sellng it.
Im concerned for the future
ownership of the port.
I hope all my my concerns come good and that I had nothing to worry about, but as things stand at the moment my concerns remain. - Vice
Chairman if you please .Quite in control . .Just Tryng to concentrate minds that the finances of this country are dire and it will be a hard and difficult task to rein it back.We have been living on borrowed money for too long .I have
been on the council ;long enough to see how much damage is done by one party than the incoming council have to sort the mess out .
- Again Keith a very good
post,i have asked you before Dover needs you back as a Cllr. - Can I hear avery old 78rpm record again with that last post, I did not think they were made anymore but i
am wrong on that one,I say again that was said by our Standin chairman and what is said is not about what her own MP said, - To all the past, present and future
politicians who contribute to this forum, I address the following. Many years ago I decided on principle that I would never in my life join a political party. Many times since I have wondered whether that was the correct decision.
Reading some of the political threads which are live on this forum at the moment, particularly the arrant nonsense currently being displayed on this page, confirms me in my decision. The taunts and tantrums being thrown around are not
worthy of any of you. I know most of you, and you are all better than that. Please all grow up and get on with the job of making Dover a better place, not a worse one.
PG. - Mr PG. All that is being said is what is true and what is not.By the way I like your TEABAGS (PG TIPS)(Joke)
- Peter
This is all about debate(thats what the
forum is for)
And I do understand you lean towards the conservatives
your anti labour postngs(which s fine, but please dont tell othrs they cant be critcal of thre tories as well)and support for tory policies.
And all of that's
fine, you have a view point and many others have view points, we may not agree but at least we should all be able to contribute.
vic;
As I'v stated on here before, and to you personally I will never be standing as a candidate
again either for labour UKIP or all the other parties that have asked me to stand.
Im out of that, done my 25 years(get less for murder lol)
I'm happier out here, contrbuting when I want, still involved in 2 communities
voluntary work, and seeing the pleasure this voluntary work brngs is enough for me.
- Most of what is being said is pure stirring, irrelevant and calculated to annoy. I
shall buy a very large wooden spoon and, at Christmas, I shall award it to whomever I consider to be the worst stirrer on the forum. Currently Mr Matcham is front runner by a country mile. Keith, I congratulate you on having wound your
neck in recently, that's good and everyone else takes you much more seriously as a result.
PG. - I did reply to your first post but it dsappeared!!!!!!!!!!
Peter
I havn't chnged at all, what you have to realise is that lthough you clearly lean towards the tories and thats fine, this forum is about debate.
I disagree with a lot of posters(you may have noticed lol)
Although looking n
from outside you could at times thnk this was a tory web site, i hjave always said I will counter debate.
This should be an open forum, not one where people are frightened to post because an ndividual says a poster talks rubbish
or someone knows better than some one else because of there profession
So that means that at times your beloved MP and local conservative cllrs will also be a target.
You wll have to accept that ok its fine to attack gwyn and
the labour party, but pleased dont get up in arms when others dare to challenge the tory MP or conservative cllrs.
Vic
As Iv said on here and to all the parties and individuals askng me to stand. Ido thank them, but i'v done
my 25 years(you get less for murder lol)
I enjoy the voluntary club im involved in and seeing the glee on these faces is enough for me.
I also do other voluntary work.
So to clear once more for anyone thinking
otherwise
I WILL NOT BE A CANDIDATE AT THIS OR ANY FUTURE ELECTION
- Get your walking boots on Vic you will need them .Plenty to do between now and Christmas
- Keef me oul china...your post didnt disappear..it goes on delay when you dont log in.
Always log in for LIVE transmission.I do keep mentioning this in an effort to keep
everyone informed.
Always log in for LIVE transmission.
Non members posts are welcome also but they go on delay not being members. - PAULB
Ok me old
china lol
- Mr PG, Thank you so much for that,and it is just want we want at this time of the year,a very big Wooden Spoon To stirr a very big Xmas Pudding for
the UKIP Xmas Dinner,please tell me when I can come down to pick it up maybe we should just get the local press there to see it. again thank you. - Yes Keith I do lean
towards the Tories but in 1997 I leaned towards Blair. He disappointed me in failing to establish the Third Way, so in 2005 I voted UKIP. So my Tory leanings are not tribal. - Not so fast Vic, Keith might just revert to his old tricks and pip you to the post!
- i never worked out what the "third way" was all about, let's hope the "big
society" is not another sound bite. - Paul B.
Purely for the record.
Member of ``Independents Party of Dover District``
Party Reference RPP
3530462
Registered 10th August 2007.
Carry on the good work Paul.Your doing a fine job. - Mr PG I would wecome you with my arms open to get you
back with UKIP,You can email me or phone at anytime .We have a great team working in Dover for Dover - Peter
I was never a fan of Blair, but that said im a bit of a
lefty at times(but known to be right wing to)
so blair not my cup of tea.
I heard him before he became PM in gravesend and you would have loved his words, but to me I could see where he was heading with the Labour
party.
That said, even I have to admit he transformed the labour party from one that was destined to be in opposition for ever to one that was electable, and if you read his book you will see just how he thought of every possble
obstacle.
He wasn't daft.
I'v accepted the party I joined in 1975 ish isnt the same as then has changed it's ideals some what.
But there you go thats progress
like you peter i dont belong to any
party
would only ever vote labour would nevert join another party.
The only time I may step outside of this is if the Labouyr rebels on town council stand
I will as it stands at the moment encourage people in the wards that
they stand to vote for other candidates.
Certanly they wont get my vote if im able to vote - Having voted over the past 30 years for all of the 'mainstream' parties I hang
on to John Maynard Keynes comment that 'When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?'
In my experience those who have always voted for one party are more fitted to tribalism than a democracy. - at town, district and county level i always vote for the candidates,
most of their responsibilities are non political anyway. - back on the subject of the people's port, bobby g of the harbour board insists that charlie's plan is undeliverable and also a political move. he adds that no account is
taken of 85 miilion quid needed to be spent on the eastern dock and the 250 million quid for the new terminal.
charlie maintains that it is workable as evidenced by the support of the ferry companies and prominent business
persons. - If Dr G says a). that £85m needs spending on the E. Docks, on the one hand; and also says b). that Charlie's charge of historical under-investment is a
lie; he cant have it both ways.
The structure is admittedly audacious and relies heavily on debt financing. It's what is called a community buyout. Debt -financed buyouts work well when interest rates are low as they are today.
Just because this structure is novel for a port doesn't mean it won't succeed. - The reason that has been given for the urban project of Whitfield is to open more shops in
Dover and Whitfield so that more money is spent in them, as this would create employment in Dover for Dovorians working inside these new shops! But May will come, and people will elect a new DDC! Just a matter of holding out till
May! - just watched bob and chas giving their alternative views on the sale/purchase of the port, no change there.
what caught my attention was that a decision will
probably not be made until spring 2012. - The decision on who the successful long term bidder is, not the decision whether DHB scheme is acceptable to government or
not.
That could come anytime.
The sooner the better, whatever the outcome.
The government indecision is sterilising investment options.
- The Government consultaion with the local public of Dover is whether to privatise the Port according to DHB's plan, or not to privatise the Port.
- In order to inform the readers of Dover Forum, I also can assure you that the Department of Transport is taking into consideration the petitions that have been signed and
handed in to say No! to the privatisation of Dover Port. - i tend to agree with paul here, any procrastination sends the wrong message to potential investors, not fair on
the staff either.
charlie keeps rattling on about the last government wanting to privatise the port, i do not see why the new government has to carry on with the plan though.
after all no contracts have been
signed. - Many thanks to our MP Charlie Elphicke for the above comment, now showing at top of page.
This is the last day for this particular page above so
enjoy...
Tomorrow we will have a Bob Goldfield page on the Port situation, the DHB view....I have had all the latest information through from Bob's team so watch for that, many thanks to them, and Charlie might like to respond to
that one then too. - Howard - the answer is simple.
The present giovernment is facing the same problems as the old one.
The terrible deficit Labour
created and the need for investment in the Port and how that can be funded. - With all the talk about the new housing at Whitfield I don't recall seeing a link to the
following page on the Dover Council site
Site Allocations Document
Interim Consultation - October 2010
The consultation runs for eight weeks from 28 October to midnight on 23 December 2010.
The maps are intended
to show all of the potential development options i.e. all the sites submitted by landowners, developers and agents at various stages in the process. No analysis of these sites has taken place. At this stage the site boundaries reflect
the information submitted. The Interim Consultation Document states an ‘indicative number of homes’ for each of the new sites. The indicative number of homes is simply a crude calculation of how many homes could be accommodated at 30
dwellings per hectare. In reality this would be refined as part of any subsequent analysis of sites.
I cannot post a link to the page itself so perhaps someone else can
Apologies if this has already been mentioned on
the forum - Re Puzzled, there are two consultations taking place. The one you mention covers the whole district and is concerned with potential new sites. The Whitfield
consultation process covers what's going to happen on the already approved site. Both are here -
www.dover.gov.uk/forward_planning/current_consultations.aspx
(You'll need to copy and paste the link as there's no URL
facility on this page.) - Puzzled, Dover -
The new proposed sites include some places that will definitely cause a few
comments.
- Thanks Ray, it was the proposed sites for Dover, which I do realise are up for discussion and consultation, that interested me. As Pauline said some of
those sites will cause a few comments
/pdf/Dover%20interim%20consultation%20document.pdf
If you copy and add that address to the Dover.Gov.Uk site it should take you to the relevant pages
I do not recall seeing
mention of this on this site before but I could well have missed it. I would have thought that it would interest quite a few people in Dover. It was mentioned in the local paper last week which is where I first saw
it.
- Dear Mr Elphick,
I do wish you would get it into your head that you do NOT represent the whole of Whitfield.
I for one am not adverse to the
developments here because unlike you I like to look for the positives in life. - I absolutely agree with you Jimmy Long, I too live in Whitfield and hope that the
developments will provide a good proportion of affordable housing so that old fogies like me can see our younger people benefit. - alan and jimmy
what sort of
feedback are you getting from neighbours and friends in whitfield about the development? - Quite right, Jimmy, you have your own personal view on this, it's
respectable, albeit the view of one person. The vast majority have a different view to you, and Charlie is representing this view in the case of Whitfield. - News of the new
name for South Kent College in Dover can be found on my blog at rhysdgriffiths dot wordpress dot com. - thanks for that rhys, i suppose the name will make it seem
special!! - Sorry to see this one go .I do take a good photo,and so good looking for my age.And puting it next to our MP evens makes it better still.
- It's a bit short, but less risky than the previously rumoured 'Folkestone University College Kent'.
- I am told
my photos is now going on the who,is Who,page,can this be true after all this time. - vic
that is purely because of your holywood matinee idol good looks.
either
that or you are blackmailing paulb - PaulB;
On Charlies interview on TV this figure of the £10 stake per person was raised as mentioned earlier in the TV
interview.
And the inteviewer stated it would be £5000 stake rather than £10 to secure the port.
And Charlie didnt deny it.
Barryw then(who watched the same interview)denied this took place.
Here now we have DHB
stating this very same figure!!!!
It appears that there are some shortfalls that need ironing out,
I think now we have a dogs breakfast of ideas and once again it wll Dovorians who are the losers whilst others play
political or other games.
As I said in earlier postings, I don't care who it is that secures the port in Dover's best interests, but it has to be a credible plan, one that is financed properly, and one that benefits the people
of Dover.
At the moment with all the gong backwards and forwards it's hard to know who's telling the truth, who's got it right, and that makes me fear for the future - Keith - you really do have a problem with comprehension and understanding.
I did not watch the interview and the problem is your interpretation is wrong. You dont have to have heard the interview to see that. Anyone
with an ounce of knowledge about the issue can understand this. I have told you that already and interpreted this for you. Clearly I did not use simple enough language so you could understand, if you wanted to understand that
is.
Charlie did say that the Trust will not be entirely funded by the subscriptions, it will raise a 'mortgage' for want of a better term.
Bob Goldfield is clearly a worried man - his multi-million retirement fund is at
risk.... This is a desperate attempt and it shows. - Barryw
I don't dispute that DHB are worried as a board, but as I said in my posting as long as the plan is
one that is credible,
It worries me that a number of financial people have come out stating the sums don't add up.
Also the ex conservative transport minister is saying the same.
These people as far as i know have
liittle to gain from charlies idea failing.
just hope he has got it right.
And it's in the interest of Dovorians.
not much to ask
- I do have
alot to write down on this one ,but at this time it can not be done,we are just off out to a general meeting of the Senior Citizens forum for the towns and villages of Dover District at Deal.BUT I will get to do it later,but let me tell
you now I have found what could happen to the port if we go with any one of the two plans. And must say it is not good reading but true,and one we have not been told of. - I do have 10mins,so will go ahead with what i was going to write.
I have been told that with any of the two plans on show to us,could easy see the Port of Dover BANKRUPT,AND THAT IS WHAT I SAID Bankrupt,and within five
years.
Again i have been told this is not the time to even think of selling the port,no one at this time knows what is going to happen in the UK.You might say this could not happen and it is just me talking out of the top of my
head again,that is wrong first it is not me saying it but a money Expert from the world that our own MP works and yes he does know him to.Anyway he goes on the tell me we only have to see what as happen in The Repubic of Ireland to see
that they are bankrupt and this could easy happen to the port,and to talk about taking out a Mortgage on the port is very silly and even puts the port in more danger of going Bankrupt and if that did happen to the port and it was put in
the hands of a receiver,the port would not only go to anyone but also for peanuts.
The best thing at this time is do nothing any talk of T2 going ahead is silly and also it is not needed.
There is still more to add to this
but i think you can see what is being said. And now lets see what both our MP and DHB say about it. Over to you Paul to aske them to read this and tell us what is behind the headlines. - interesting post from the harbour board, what does "securities of such a value" mean?
- Dunno,
Howard. But any privatisation plan, including Charlie's, but also that of DHB, would lead Dover Port to bankruptcy. There is only one main reason why the privatisation proposal was made, and that is the construction of T2. If T2 is not
needed, or is not necessary for at least ten years, the sale-plan should by all rights be thrown out.
If T2 is needed in the immediate future, there is no need to flog off Eastern Docks, which is profitable, to build up Western
Docks. - May-be not all realise how much money DHB has acrued over the years and holds in savings and assets. It is a very lot of money! The 10 million quid that DHB has
offered to Dover Town as an immediate sum should the sale go ahead, is just a very small part of what DHB already has in savings. - Whoever were to buy the Port of Dover
would inherit the savings that DHB has made, and practically be 'buying' both Eastern and Western Docks, the promenade and the piers, the Churchill hotel, and would be 'buying' over 50 million pounds in savings and
assets! - Vic you would need to source and qualify where you are getting that bankruptcy thing from, with some kind of evidence, otherwise its just wild speculation with no
basis.You are stating that both plans would lead to bankruptcy. One couldnt put such a notion to either of them without serious backup qualification.
- d.h.b. are offering the town 10 million quid plus 20 million quid "securities of a value"??
the peoples port are offering a percentage of the profit on an annual basis, of course theres is no way of knowing what the
figures would be.
have i got that right? - I myself am not sure what the DHB actually mean by "securities of such a value" but whatever they are they are
guaranteed and will be to the value of £20million ...this in addition to the straight away cash injection of £10 million...which is a pretty impressive cash injection and the town could use it.
Very hard to know about the
People's Port. Very much depends on whether they make a profit, but with my other foray into investing on grand projects...Eurotunnel..they had and have had so much debt I dont think I ever got a return on my original investment, other
than the chance to buy more shares. It was a bottomless pit of cash absorbtion with no return. The People's Port will also have large levels of debt.
But no doubt some of the other guys will be better able to answer on behalf of
the People's Port. - Paulb
Again your right, promises made by the DHB how, if they get there way, will the dosh be used, and by whom?
all a bit wishy
washy.
Then of course some argue Charlies plan is unselling the port, is not well costed, and the £10 quoted s likely to be more like
£5000.
So this wll i'm sure develop over time, and hopefully the answers will also
be out in the open.
- Port? Bankruptcy? Come off it. Unless someone was purposefully malicious it would be impossible to run the port at a loss! I have been following
the fortunes of the port over the past three decades and in spite of the fact that the port has been run, on occasion, by people I would not want in a pub quiz team, nevertheless it has always managed to return a decent profit! - PAUL.I will aske but it was done by the same person who said the port is sold it should go for no less than beween £1billion and 2billion.At that time I was told because of his
work in the city his name could not be used. but one can only aske,but that does not stop our MP or the DHB from saying No it could not happen,or Yes it could happen. - VIC
Your cloud of secrecy does you no justice.
Its a big thing to say such thngs without proof better to have got the permission of this secret guy first - Mr Frost.that is just the point ,left alone it will carry on like that,but onces it is sold off we are being told ,that it could end in Bankruptcy ,and again we do not have to look far to see where that already happen ,if it
can happen to the banks themself, nothing and I mean nothing is safe,Again just look what has happen in Ireland. - If the port is going to go bankrupt if privatised or
mutualised, it can only mean there is an existing black hole in DHB's accounts. That means Vic's informant must be in the finance dept at Harbour House. And if that is the case, it will become evident during the due diligence process
and the purchase price (for whomever becomes the buyer) will be adjusted accordingly. Simples. - And a price of £1-2bn means a prospective earnings multiple of somewhere between
40 and 80. Ports worldwide sell at multiples of 8-12 times current earnings. Anyone who paid £1bn for it would certainly go bust, big time! - Well Vic
It's up to
you to produce the evidence, otherwise your credibility will deepen - There is qualifying evidence to back up the Port banktuptcy prospect if privatisation went ahead,
PaulB
Sea France has a debt of 180 million euros!
One given reason is the Channel Tunnel competition.
Then there is LSD who halved the crossings to Boulogne recently through lack of trade.
P&O have recently announced they
will lay of many workers, including Dover (recent local press report), and have bitterly complained, as have the other ferry operators, that DHB plan to increase Port dues even further as part of the privatisation process.
It's
written on the walls, Paul! - I seem to remember last year and earlier this year, lots of media reports that UKIP was facing
bankruptcy......... - Nothing to do with UKIP, Peter. The information I give about bankruptcy is independent from Vic's. May-be you should inform yourself about how Sea France
have only just manaded to escape insolvence due to a massive credit! They are not operating on a profit!
- that is old news about sea france, there are always peaks and
troughs in the business, the fact remains that dover is the shortest crossing point uk/europe/uk, has the harbour capable of taking the new super ferries and efficient dock facilities.
no other port close to us can even take the
present large ferries let alone the new ones. - The deputy Pm in the House at PM Qs said today he could not give full support to this, as Charlie sat shaking his head
from side to side Deputy PM wished him well with his campaign and also said the port of dover was owned by DHB. - Howard, the Channel Tunnel is just as swift to cross,
it takes less than an hour, it's actually quicker! It is also closer than Dover to London for the traffic travelling towards Folkestone, as most traffic leaving Eastern Docks does. You yourself stated that P&O are supported by Dubai
Ports, add to this that Sea France are supported by a large concern in France, add 2 and 2 together and the conclusion is, if these two ferry operators were not financially supported, they'd have both quitted Dover years ago, owing to
DHB's heavy port dues and competition from the Channel Tunnel. - Alexander - none of what you say suggests Dover Port might go bust. You are making up something from
nothing.
As Peter says if there is a black hole in the DHB accounts then due diligance will show it up.
- alex
dubai ports do not support p & o they
own them, p & o are a healthy profit making concern. - Also, Seafrance, who recently had talked of laying off staff, have been told that they cannot expect any more
credits, as these would be against e.u. regulation. They have to pay back the large debt as it is. Dover Port ferry users are already in debt! Some already verge onto bankruptcy, and may still go that
way. - So it would seem that Dubai Ports are the only guarantee that P&O do not go bankrupt, no matter how they might operate on a loss here ion Dover. If that were DHB's
point, then they might as well play at tiddly winks, because it won't work. Dubai Ports are not Father Christmas! - Sorry Howard,at this time I can not do that,but a
insider at the DHB ,it is a no to that aswell,I did say that news came out of the city.It has nothing to do with UKIP, just because I am in that party does not mean that every thing I say and do is following a party line ,because again
it would not be true.It is better this came out now then to go down the road of selling then five years on we find out what I and others are saying was right,to late then.I am now 68years old,I have nothing togain,over if it goes or
stays. just think about that. - alex
your continued assertions that p & o are propped up to save them going under is ludicrous.
i would advise you stop
spreading such stuff for your own benefit.
- VIC
Your correct to hghlght these concerns, but with it must come proof, anyone can make a story up
(im
sure you have the facts) but it cant be left in the air, theres no proof to what you say at the moment - I have to agree with Keith and Howard Mcsweeney. The allegations that
Alexander and Vic Matcham are both making are manufactured to pretend they know something when in actual fact they know nothing more than the rest of us. They should be very careful about what they say because I would think it is
bordering on libelous. This reminds me of many moons ago when as boys we would delight in saying "I know something you don't know!" Grow up gentlemen! - thanks
alec, unsubstantianted allegations can cause a lot of stress to employees worrying about their rent/mortgage repayments and other sundries. - SeaFrance are only
hanging on because of illegal French government support. Without that state aid they could not cope in a competitive market given the militancy of the French unions who call the shots. If they go belly up there will be someone else to
take over the ships and routes. P&O may be losing money now but when the recession comes to an end they will make hay. The tunnel is indeed a threat but has an acute vulnerability- a terrorist dirty nuke down there would put it out of
action for a thousand years. - Howard, the topic was whether P&O could operate at Dover in a regime of fair trade with Port privatisation, not if P&O are going bankrupt world-
wide. This latter I have certainly not stated, so rather read carefully please my post there!
Considering the turn of events, you won't find another word from me on the topic of Dover Port privatisation on the Forum.
- A suggestion. This topic had got out of hand, I would advise all participants to quit it!
- Alec
Bradshaw is absolutely right in that the introduction by Vic of the bankruptcy thing was unfortunate. Its not good enough for debate purposes to say someone told you that someone might go bankrupt and leave it at that. It may have been a
guy spouting in the pub after 10 pints for all the rest of us know....so as was mentioned previously, statements like that need to be quantified immediately or not made at all. So not with you on that one Vic.
Its also playing the
'scaremonger' card. Saying both new options are doomed to bankruptcy so we best keep the status quo. This suits the UKIP and UNITE stance and Vic has told us he is with both these groups.
So the bankruptcy fear shouldnt put
people off going for either option. It is theoretically possible that even Tesco could go bankrupt !! heavens !
This is not to say that either option is better than the status quo but just to point out that its best not to
overplay irrational fears in order to maintain the status quo. - peter
I do wonder if sea france were to go if someone else would replace them?
the
hovercraft went never replaced
and the shipping companes are all cuttng back - I do not know how many times I have to say this,What I said had nothing to do with UKIP,or
UNITE. they did not even know anything about it.At first because I could not say or never will where I got it from I was not going to put it on the Forum,but I still think it was the right thing to do,and do not take back a word of
it,Because I also think it could happen,I did not say at anytime it would only that it could.I have nothing more to add to it so thats it
Only time will tell who was right ,And if I am still living when it is all done and I was wrong
I will eat the one and only hat I have.. - peter, sealink were owned by the goverment was that illegal too. the belguim ferries were allso owned by the belguim goverment
too. - Vic
unless you produce the so called evidence you are unlkely to be believed - Yes Brian, Sealink were
owned by the government and sold for a song to Mr. Sherwood of Sea Containers a USA company who went on to sell bits and pieces of it and made a fortune in doing so. - Vic I shall have the greatest pleasure in due course, of presenting you with both a wooden spoon (as mentioned previously) and an edible hat.
Brian, when Sealink was state owned it was part of British Rail. Those were
different days and the same rules and thinking as today did not apply.
Keith, according to today's paper there are 4 firm bids for SeaFrance's ships and routes.
I agree, the port discussion has gone on long enough. You
will hear nowt more from me until the Secretary of State announces a decision.
PG. - peter,seafrance is owned/run by sncf the french
railways. - Peter
Who ever takes on sea france will be aware of the problems not only of the debts they have but also the workforce and it's dsputes. might put a lot
off - I have used the following DDC statement previously in The Forum section...but thought I would run it again here now on the frontpage as the editorial currently above
refers to the DTIZ..here is the other side of the coin as it were...
DOVER TOWN INVESTMENT ZONE UPDATE
Following significant progress, Dover District Council has confirmed that it wishes to continue to engage with
Bond City Limited as the Council’s preferred development partner in the multi million pound regeneration of the St James’ area in Dover.
At a meeting of Full Council last night, it was agreed that the Director of Regeneration, in
consultation with the Portfolio Holder for Economy and Special Projects be authorised to complete certain legal agreements, including agreeing specific timetables, and to report back to Council in six months, or sooner, on progress on
this major project.
Bond City is developing revised proposals for this key site, known as the Dover Town Investment Zone (DTIZ), and significant progress continues to be made. This follows news of Asda’s withdrawal from the scheme
late last year. Both Bond City and the Council have been working hard to move this important project forward.
Cllr Frederick Scales, DDC Cabinet Member for Economy and Special Projects, said: “We are very pleased to continue to
engage with Bond City on this major project. This is part of an exciting bigger picture, as we continue to work with a range of partners on a growth programme for the future of the district, and to bring forward opportunities for
employment, housing and regeneration. The work already undertaken in a range of areas, including having Growth Point Status and our Local Development Framework in place, has set firm foundations for growth. We are already seeing
encouraging signs for investment, and progress on the DTIZ represents further signs of confidence in the future of the area.”
John Laker on behalf of Bond City said: "We are delighted that DDC continues to show confidence in our
ability to deliver this important project. We have continued to make significant progress since the withdrawal of Asda and have introduced new team members to reinvigorate the process. We remain convinced that the St James development
will be a success for the town of Dover and will deliver exciting new retailers in a town centre environment.”
- Dear Paul
Thank you for giving me the
space to tell folk, in the Members forum, that Western Heights is a designated Ancient Monument - I won the case for that designation in 1993.
However, the LDF SITE ALLOCATIONS INTERIM CONSULTATION DOCUMENT identifies 120 new
development sites for consideration that includes the whole of the Western Heights site.
However, there are powerful folk in Dover who are in denial over this designation and/or its extent.
Except for a short period
following the 1993 judgement, very little money has been spent on the site - The local media were never interested while both DDC and English Heritage looked the other way, leaving it to the White Cliffs Countryside Project and the
Western Heights Preservation Society to take responsibility.
I appreciate that it would take £m's to restore the site ... but no developer, however genuine they may be, has the money to do that.
Thus through neglect
both the Nation and Dover will be losing a valuable asset for short-term gain.
Between 2004 and 2009, I fought hard, through the legal system, for a Community Hospital for Dover - and again won. Only to see that smashed by the
powerful supported by the gullible.
It looks as though Western Heights is going the same way - for as one respondent neatly summed up on this forum ... it is only of mild interest.
Thanks Paul.
Lorraine
- Very welcome Lorraine.
- Re. the 'Arrested over internet comment'
thread.
Might be better to say that comments on this forum are 'read' rather than 'monitored' by people other than those who maintain this forum.
People do sometimes seem to forget that they are posting to a public
forum. - I think we can all see the end of Distrct Councils which needs a lot more homework.
Of course with funding ..we can see not only are Councils strapped for
cash, but on top of this fundng is to be reduced, as well as funding being so wide Dover likely to lose out.
Sadly it looks grim for the future, I hope i'm wrong - when
i first saw this "local enterprise partnership" i thought that the last thing was about it being local.
seems we are getting short changed here, the quango will have little power and even less money. - The picture is awful! I mean, 1.4 billion pounds spending money minus 1.4 billion pounds costs equates to zero.
A bit like the picture above, the above surface is weighed
out by the downside reflection. - Yes the overall picture is awful. (not the actual one showing I might add which is another brill one from Scotchie ). It also bodes rather
bleakly for the region generally. I dont personally know all the details but the last Labour Government under the various guises poured good money into local life here. There may be many others, but personally Ive seen two of these
developments up close and personal.
I was at the opening by the then Minister Margaret Hodge of the fabulously revamped Castle Keep at Dover Castle. A fantastic improvement costing a small fortune. I even have pictures of Gwyn and
PauliW chatting away in the shadows...seems to have been more co-operation in those days...whoops! no more talk of current splits!!
Also money was forthcoming for the new fantastic seafront which they are further landscaping at
this very moment..as I gaze forlornly out the window on the grey day...the tractors and diggers are there.
These are just two of the cash injections off the top of my head. Im sure there are more. Now though, Dover looks to be in
for a bleak time of it. And we thought things couldnt get worse... - Whilst not a member, I have enjoyed reading all the postings on the Dover Forum over the last
couple of years. However, I was taken aback and very disappointed to see the personal attacks on someone in Ian's posting "Front Page" over the last day or so. Disliking someone for the way they conduct their business is one thing,
but making jokes about someone's personal appearance are something quite different and very distasteful. I wonder whether Ian, PaulB or Bob Frost would like it if such attacks were made about
them? - I am having to do it all this again it just went.
Right off we go again not happy about it .
I can not agree with you at this time about Dover,puting the
sell of the port to oneside,Dover is looking up with more shops coming in to the town ,we are doing alot better than most seaside towns around us. And there are lots of groups working at this very time it trying to get more funds and
more of the Gen/public to come to Dover. On the 5th Nov I was asked along to avery big meeting at the DTC office,This was put on by Mr Mcfarnell and the chairman was The Deputy Mayor,it was aworkshop more than ameeting.
And the list
of who was there is along one.
(1)Town Clerk.(2)Visit Kent group.(3)White Cliffs,Dover Hotel and Guest House Group.(4)The pines Grn,Group.(5)D.D,Chamber of Commerce,(6)English Heritage.(7)Maston Airport.(8)Dover Society.(8)Roger
Walkden District Cllr.(9)F/Dover castle(Myself) (10)Walletts Court.(11)Best of Dover and deal group.(12)Empowered Business Ltd.(13)Dover White Cliffs Tours.(14)Mr Holyer Market Square information point.(15)D,D,DC.(16)Ramada Hotel.(17)
Premier Inn.(18) Avis Rent a Car.
And there was others.
End of part one - This workshop was put on to see how we can all work as one big group ,to get
more Tourism,and Business in to not only Dover but the District aswell,but mainly Dover.
As most of you know Flybe ,fly out of Maston to Manchester And Scottland, And there are to be two big trade Fairs,one in Manchester and the
other in Edinburgh,and the Visit Kent Group are going to have a Tourism and Business stand at both of them,and they will be telling both Business and touism what is on offer in Kent and Dover is part of that,They will also be saying
about that Maston is only about 45mins flying time fromManchester, and Edinburgh, and and also avery good rail network to,and the fare by plane can be very low at £29.50, and the train can also match that to with going off pk times.
there was lots more that came out of that workshop andI have know wish to bor you.But what it does show that at this very time there alots of groups working on geting more of the public to this part of the UK and Dover and the District
.It can not be done overnight but by holding workshops like the one above it will play a very big part, and take it from me ,they are all working as one family to get the very best for Dover. - paulb
you may underestmate both paulw and gwyn
they both are pole apart on the political front, but that didnt stop them talking, and findng where they could
agree
Alo theres nowt wrong with beng nice to each other - Ah no I wouldnt underestimate PaulW or Gwyn at all. Not so at all. It was always encouraging to see them
chatting because although politicking is alright up to a point, at the end of the day a certain amount of working together is and was called for. They worked very well together over the prison situation for example. Then soon after it
was back to the politicking...which was fair enough.
Interesting posts Vic. The problem is despite initiatives like the ones you mention there's no Government money forthcoming. In fact even DDC are having to make considerable
cuts as we know...even the merging of services with other districts will still see us having to endure cuts....its difficult to see much light in the gloom. - linda
i think the mickey taking was over the photograph, i am sure that mr goldfield cringed when he saw it. - Linda you make a fair point but it
was only a little bit of fun. There wasnt any malice in it. The photograph wasnt the best but Bob G always kind of looks that way on TV. We wouldnt allow any posts with intended malice. Im sure Bob wouldnt have minded as it was just an
aside. The main and real story was on this page with full coverage of Bob's effort on the Port. - Some of the tourism initiatives wouldn't need vast amounts of
money, the most important thing required is a "Can-Do" attitude.
The number of tourism initiatives I have come up with have all been costed, evaluated and worked out in great detail and all of them have been turned down by
WCCTA..
At the meeting last week, I can't remember who it was, spoke of a Passport to Leisure, this was another initiative I created that would have been so good for Dover's historic sites and attractions.
I was half-way
through a Tourism Strategy for Dover (Town) and a Plan for Action that could have been used to apply for funding.
All of these of course are now dead, as nothing can be successful when done by an individual, they all need the
(financial and moral) support of a body.
Roger - I see my post has been deleted from the Who's who page. What a sad state of affairs when a silly deluded man can
put whatever he likes on display yet because I commented on it my post was deleted.
I stand by what I said, Mr Matcham is a joke and does nothing to enhance this website. It's a shame that you can't see that Mr McSweeney, but it's
your right as one of the editors. I won't be reading doverforum anymore, or putting my views onsite either. Such a shame to let one man ruin what is otherwise an excellent site.
- alec
we are a members club, the rules are very lax therefore encouraging strong debate.
we only delete posts that are actionable, obscene(very few of those)
or attacks on fellow members.
it is acceptable to attack what someone says but not to make a personal attack on the poster.
paul the boss gets flak from all sides over aggressive posts.
i get the impression that you
could add some constructive stuff, up to you though. - Howard, please can you delete Alec Bradshaw's post, it's
insulting. - alex
i suspect i cannot win on this one.
vic drew my attention to the post from alec on the whom is whom thread, i deleted it.
vic then says that i
should have left it on.
alec has replied criticising my actions, i have explained my reasons.
maybe it would be better to just give this one a rest? - Howard is
absolutely right in his two recent posts there. It is very difficult if not impossible to keep everybody happy all the time, especially with all we do. But...we certainly try. But while some people want something deleted others dont and
so on, and we have to sometimes make decisions that alienate some.
But I would ask that people understand that.
Also Howards post two down is also absolutely accurate and explains exactly our modus operandi.
Yes I do
get flak as Howard says. However we do listen to complaints, genuine ones, and try to improve the situation accordingly. In an ideal world there would be no complaints and everyone would be happy, but its not ideal as we know.
So
yes complaints I listen to either on here direct, but preferably to my email address as some items are obviously sensitive and we may be able to improve the service as a consequence.
Alec I think we all have our irritations and
some people might get up our collective noses more than others, Im not speaking of Vic here but generally, but we must try to tolerate those ones eh?...grrrrr!! - Just to go back to Roger's post there..
it looks though Roger that money has played a part. If your tourism iniatives were turned down even though they were costed and whathaveyou, the sanctioning body the WCCTA
probably didnt have the money to run with them.
Likewise hasnt our DDC tourism budget been axed, I think I read that, and likewise hopefully without opening up any old wounds...the Chamber of Commerce dont and didnt have any money
either, they didnt have enough money to pay your efforts as Business Support Manager.
So money seems to be at the root of all our evils, and with regional funding being cut back even further as per the editorial above, its going
to be very difficult to get any bright ideas that benefit the town up and running.
Is this too negative a view??..I dunno. But always interested in hearing others
opinions. - Obviously Paul, money does have to play a part, but in many (tourism) instances, or should I say initiatives, it is the amount - the small amount, of
(public) money that many of the initiatives cost to implement and run.
WCCTA did not have to financially support any of them, just approve them, but they wouldn't do even that.
The Discover Dover leaflet I produced for
two years running and was deemed by the VIC as being the most popular leaflet they had (ever had), WCCTA would not support it; I asked WCCTA 4 times to part-fund it and they still refused; I believe because of two reasons, one was that
it combined businesses and tourism sites (which I believe to be essential) - I'll leave you to ponder the other reason.
The Chamber of Commerce should be the body moving Dover forward as well as working on tourism initiatives,
but they won't/can't. Maybe it needs another Chamber to develop it - and not the Council Chamber.
I still get emails and phone calls from various bodies and Councils around Country about the Dover Loyalty Scheme and every one
of them has said they cannot understand why it didn't get any formal/official funding. It would still be running and growing if it had.
Roger - Tourism-wise
Dover is doing quite well with cruise-liners.
The facilities to receive tourism, including the high-speed train and the bus and coach connections, are all in place. Not to mention the ferry connections from France and Belgium. In
theory Dover could be thriving on tourism, considering all these transport facilities that are up and running by land and by sea. - In "another place" Roger, a new junior
reporter has suggested a loyalty card! - no ferry connection to belgium alex, you may be thinking of the p & o service between dover and
zeebrugge which is freight only. - All i can say is i may not always agree with paulb/howard
but they try to be as fair as possble, in an often no win
situations.
think positive
think Dover forum - That's interesting Terry.
Roger - Yes
Roger, "been there, done that, got the t-shirt" comes to mind.
Did you have one by the way? - you could be right terry, that roger bloke had a
rather similar idea.
incidentally after bunping into you and maureen in morrisons who do i see straight after?
your school chum roger. - No I didn't
get the T-shirt Terry. I'm now thinking of having one made up, with the Loyalty Scheme Logo and underneath, put
"Been there, done that, here's the T-
shirt".
Roger - I think Ive probably made those pictures a bit too large in the editorial above..hopefully there wont be too much trouble if any
seeing/loading this page. Its always good if possible to see the faces in as much detail as possible. It was raining cats and dogs throughout...but all stood firm!
Press your f11 button on your keyboard to see the pictures full
screen.
Then to return to normal view press f11 again.
Will have more words later. Will leave the pictures as seen. - The weather as we know was not
good,but very good turn out ,and very nice to see alot of young ones there to. - It was packed house at our church St Peter and St Paul .We had
almost an hours service in the church where we sang those beautiful Hymns ,"I Vow to thee my Country " " O god our Help in ages past "" "Make me a Channel of your Peace " There were one or two others .The Methodists Ministers
contubutiion was very moving .Reading about a soldier in the first world war who never forgot how he shot a young person who died before his eyes .
We then all went outside for the act of remberance .By then it was raining
.
By the way Paul B .Protocol .I believe that was the Chairman of DDC Cllr Bernard Butcher standing alongside the Mayor .The Chairman out ranks all others unless Royalty or Royalyty representative is there .On the DDC web site
and sometimes not very ofter i stand in for the Chairmsn .For all you forum people it is on the web site .
Every year Im reminded how we politicians should make the world a better place .I always wander home with this in mind
. - A very respectful turnout from the Dover community, it's nice to see the weather did not stop people from turning out to pay their respects for the 'Fallen'. We shall
remember them. - Sue
bit of a shame you had to get into the protocol bit
I know that Bernard Butcher would not get into this im more important than you
saga. - I feel this is in very bad ,that even on Remembrance day,we have the stand in Chairman of the D.D.C. going on about that the Chairman of the DDC out ranks all others.
And also as an election has already been called, she is well out of order and I will be letting the Leader know that. Remembrance is not about who is there and who is not. - great set of photos there, surpised they came out so well on such a gloomy day.
- At least Im honest .Vic its nothing to do with elections as well you
know /.If it had been thus I would have gone to Temple Ewell but my home is in River .In that way I would have been promoting the Conservative party /.
I recall there was a rather a nasty saga a few years ag as to who should
walkwith who .Dont critise me for what I know goes on .
For the last time Im not a stand in .Vice Chairman if you please . - At times like this our thoughts are with
those that have given there lives for our our country not who out ranks who in the Council. Very sad. - A time like this is for remembering those who have given there lives
for our Country certainly not a time for worrying about who out ranks who in the Council. - Paul ,
Im fully aware of what rembrance is all about .I have only one further
comment to make .Since I have been made Vice Chairman Im not allowed to comment on political issuies ,however I was given a booklet explaining the role and what I have to do when I wear my chain of office .
I attend the service at
River as it is my Parish church those who wish to attend the one in town can do that .
I fully appreciate what our service man do /
I understand what it is like to be left on your own to raise children I shed tears because I
understand .Its not about politics although I feel most wars are over politics and religion . - Sue
I'm sure you are absolutely correct in your point of protocol, my
point is that under the circumstances I found it disrespectful that you felt the need to raise the issue at all at such a time - Sue
sadly this is wrong as has been said
by one of your own constituents in River.
All this about who outranks who, blimey thought those days long gone.
never mind suppose some have to think they better/do more/done
more
- Paul H
I take your point .Sometimes the point over protocol does not get home .I have had to step back more than once during the last twenty odd years .Im
of the old school .
I find a lot of people attend these events to be seen Im very aware of respect something that is lacking these days .. - Unfortunately people do get
upset at the order of wreath laying. When I was at the Merchant Navy day on the seafront I was severly taken to task by a lady (who laid a wreath yesterday by the way) for announcing in the wrong order. Happily, as yesterday, I just
announced it and had no part in the structure. In spite of that she was still intent on shooting the messenger! - Great spread of pictures showing that many veterans
grown ups and children turned out in what has to be said a very wet morning indeed.
I am always very proud to be there on this day,haveing had a Grandfather serving in the Royal Artillery during the first and second world war. But
also for all the fallen then and now. - Again we see the standin Chairman saying some un called for remarks
"I find a lot of people attend these events to be
seen" again this is out of order. - now now vic, our susan is not a stand in, she is vice chairperson.
- Howard,if the forum feel my remarks about the standin chairman are out of order please remove them and to the forum I say Sorry.
- No Vic no worries, I think
Howard was just pulling your leg there. Sue has told you a couple of times that she is not the 'stand in' Chairman but the Vice Chairman... If you keep calling her the stand in chair she may be driven to eat her famous hat in
frustration! - Looking at the Oxford Dictionary and the Chambers Dictionary the word "Standin"To deputize,act as a substitue I rest my case.
- lighten up vic, cheer yourself up, susan may forget to take the pin out before eating her hat.
- Lovely Howard .
- sue, hope your hat is marzipan flaverd.lol
- Strawberries and cream with
a dash of whisky . - good to see that you like whiskey susan, maybe once you have outed nigel we could get together?
- You know what they say about whisky, Howard, supposed to make you frisky.
I can see Nigel doing the 4 minute mile round Dover, being chased by a lady wearing a rather
large hat.
Poor chap would be so out of breath he would have to seek sanctuary in the White Horse. - The official title is Vice Chairman, not Stand-in Chairman; Sue is
Vice Chairman. Vic knows the proper title is Vice Chairman, he is knowingly annoying Sue just for the sake of it.
Roger - Has anyone noticed the white light in
the top picture above the heads of the Town Councillors and Town Clerk. I know Jeane our resident psychic hasnt been well or otherwise I would be asking her if it means anything on a spiritual level.
It could just be a raindrop
but I havent quite seen a raindrop appear on my lens like that before, and living in England we most certainly encounter rain on a regular basis...bit of a mystery?
Yes Howard the pictures generally came out better than expected
when one considers the conditions. I was expecting them to be a lot worse, but as ever pictures from Remembrance Sunday are always very interesting. Its an engaging
event. - yes i have paul.thought it might have been a security light but now you mention it,it does look odd.dosent bear to well for mike web though dose
it. - Paul, isn't it your flash reflecting off raindrops, hence the tail as the flash decays? There's actually three on the first pic, two smaller ones where the drops are
further away, and one on the third pic, just over the poppy of the chap in the middle of the second row. The big faint one with no tail over the flag in the middle of the third is just a drop on the lens.
I could say sorry to
poor cold water on the spiritual theories to make a corny joke, but I won't. - As far as I understand the protocol is that since the 1980'S the Chairman and Mayor present the
wreaths together in respect for each others positions. - Ah indeed Ray you may well be right. odd though the rain was lashing down so there would have been many raindrops before the
lens as the picture and flash fired, and yet it only appears mostly in the photo at the top of page. I have just now gone though all the other pictures, I took about I dunno 40 or so, and no white flashes any where else...although yes
now I see the one in the third pic down...but nowhere else, yet the flash was popping all along. As you can see Im endeavouring to continue the white light theory!!?
But yes indeed as I said in my earlier post it might just be a
raindrop but rather an unusual occurence for me I must say. Then Im not usually out photographing in a downpour. - Paul, apply the law of inverse reciprocity to
the angle of dangle and that explains why there's only a few showing up! - thanks for simplifying that ray.
- must admit that was as clear as mud.
- I'm sure Paul understands!
It said it's impossible to explain the law of inverse reciprocity accurately in less than
more words than you'd want to read. Hope that's clearer. - yes bob a bit clearer but still baffeled.
- In other
words, Brian, someone got a very big rain-drop on the head! - I thought it was some sort of aura coming from me under the green umbrella!
- Ah yes indeed it could be Terry...the inner glow of satisfaction of a job well done. On the other hand it could be that you had just opened your wallet at that moment,
and whatever light there was in the atmosphere reflected off the cascading array of newly minted notes therein.....lol!
Will leave this page for the rest of the day as a number of people are enjoying the pictures...so enjoy the
last day, after that its into the archives of All Recent Features. It will be interesting to see the newspaper coverage of the event too. - the same thing
happend to me a few years ago.i found a v-3 rocket site near boulnge,it was a seris of tunnles.when i downlowded them on my computer there was loads of white circles like the ones on your pictures,about 90% of them where affected,not
forgetting we were undergroud. - May-be someone was thinking aloud about the Christmas decorations, light bulbs and all
that. - Or was the thought: It's raining cats and dogs, I wish I had a hat on my head!?
- alex,it wasnt
raining underground,come to think of it it was a nice sunny day that day. - Was there any form of lighting in the tunnels (been there many years ago but cannot remember). If so,
you can get a reflection in the lens which usually shows up as a coloured spot. Does not explain the one at the top of this page though. - ken,yes there was some low level
lighting,the spots where white orb shaped. - It's criminal (literally) that these toe-rags break into the Drop-Redoubt, causing damage to the locks and brick-work.
If
that's the damage on the outside, you can imagine what they'd do to the inside, if they get there. They're not wanting to see the history, it's just vandalism.
Hope they are found
out.
Roger - Roger yes its a great shame to see vandalism like this especially on protected sites of national importance. I wonder sometimes if the people doing
it actually realise what they are doing...and that someone else will have to pay for their destructiveness.
Im afraid sad to say that its probably all down to education and awareness and maybe even IQ..or the lack of
it. - Sadly paulb i dont think many do realise, last night on a bus i saw 2 about 11 year old children kicking a lampost trying to get the light to go
out.
But with all the cutbacks its un;likely to get better, in fact worse.
manchester police getting rid of a third of its workfiorce
pendle much the same.
its looking
grim.
- It's shocking to see the mindless vandalism which has been done to the Drop Redoubt, especially after all the tireless hard work that has been put in by
the volunteers, I'm lost for words. - So you all complain about this mindless Vandalism were is the security for these sites they are wide open to this sort of behaver and
most of this is done in daylight as they are trying to get underground look at the web-site Dover underground and tell me how they get in.E H don't give a dam the Vandals don't so why should we are Councils don't,So when you do
nothing with these sites people are going to take Advantage. - on another thread it was suggested this problem is likely to be solved or lessened by developments
coming to fruition up there.
english heritage and the council do not have the funds to have security patrols at the site. - Over two weekend this year we
have allowed over 3,000 people in to the fort at £3.00 or £4.00 a time that is ten thousand pounds every weekend its open or more what is this money spent on, not on the building and not on security, and I believe the Volunteers cut the
grass can any one give us a breakdown. the only reason I ask is if it can make that sort of money in one weekend then why is it not open more times and start rebuilding it with the money Generated. E H cant be against that if its going
to help Dover. - Perhaps a local company like Burgess could provide a heavy duty metal cage to cover the door area, other than that the cost of security or CCTV would be
difficult to justify in these times of cutbacks. - martin, probably cost 500 to 1000 pounds to manufacture and install.thats with out covering all the other ways
in. - Alan - re those number. The 3,000 is over two weekend, with half of them children so nothing like £10,000 a weekend (I wish!!).
From this is the costs of
generators, fuel, toilets, advertising, re-enactors, displays etc, etc and it is all unpaid volunteer run and nothing goes to EH.
We would like to open more but it is only run by volunteers and being derelict it is difficult to
safely open to the public. Small steps - we have a management agreement with EH and things are moving on what we can/can't do.
10 years ago it was quoted as being £10million to get up to a proper museum standard..... - I am appalled at the damage caused to the fort by the vandals to this unique historical monument. As a WHPS volunteer myself I can speak with confidence that nothing of any
value whatsoever is kept in the fort. So if anyone is thinking of breaking in to steal items - forget it. Unless ivy, flints and turf is your thing. - I know I shouldn't rise
to the bait, but in response to the person who said in the thread about the Express "why bother to buy a local paper that no longer has a local office or really covers the area it serves plus it is full of adverts", I have three things
to say:
1) We do cover the area we serve, personally I've been in Dover on three separate occasions in the last four days alone, meeting people and telling their stories, some happy and some sad. Not bad going for a hack based,
for whatever reason, in another town. There are many in this trade who, regretfully, never leave the comfort of their desks - the staff of the Express are not among them.
2) We genuinely go above and beyond to serve our community.
For the second year running our Christmas campaign is harnessing the goodwill of ordinary Dovorians to bring festive cheer to those less fortunate. We do this not because we have to, but because we want to. Last weekend we had a
journalist in each of Dover, Deal and Sandwich to cover Remembrance Sunday. Again, not because we have to, but because we want to.
3) The paper does contain a significant number of adverts because this is the only way we can
continue to provide a newspaper for Dover, Deal and Sandwich. Lose them and you lose your newspapers, whether the Express, Mercury or YourDover. It's that simple.
I understand people having complaints about the paper, they are
entitled to their opinion and we would love to hear from them so issues can be addressed, but the suggestion that we don't cover the area we serve is nonsense and I think our thousands of loyal readers would agree. - Thanks for your reply,Rhys. Could you tell me why some of the Dover schools were left out of all those lovely photos?
It's hard to tell a child that they aren't in
there - Aellia, I'm sorry but I wasn't involved in compiling the First Class supplement so I can't explain why any particular school was not featured. Can I suggest
calling 01303 850999 on Monday to speak to our news editor who may be able to offer an explanation? Thanks. - Actually the First Class supplement is not compiled by the
news editor (me) but the reason some schools are not featured is because when our PA sent out emails to them all not everyone replied. If schools asked to book a photo they went in, if they didn't then they weren't featured. Hopefully
we will be able to get more of the schools to take part next year. - Kathy, I knew you weren't involved in compiling the supplement either, but I hoped you might be better
placed than me to explain how the whole thing gets put together because I've not got a clue! - Kathy /Rhys noticed you talked about the Town Council election but you
totally missed that there has to by a bi electon on District and KCC as well,following Roger Frayne's death.We were surprised it was called so quickly and is being held on December 17th.
Labour's candidate for the Town Council is
Mick Smith,District Council Peter Walker and KCC Gordon Cowan. - Hi John. I think Simon did the election piece. I have been working in Thanet this week so wasn't in the office for
all of the articles and the final proofing stages. It would be lovely to see Mick on the town council (that's not a political preference, I just happen to think he is a top chap) - good to see kathy and rhys putting their case here.
john
i feel a bit concerned about the forthcoming bi election, will straight and gay people be excluded from standing? - Thanks Howard, whatever people may think about the Express as a newspaper, they can be sure the three journalists working week in, week out for Dover, Deal and Sandwich
are passionate about serving our community and will never shy away from a debate about what we do. - Re the First Class feature in the Dover and Deal & Sandwich Expresses
this week, I thought the feature was far more representative of the area this year, well done to whoever compiled it. - John did you hit the wrong button .The By Election is
on Thursday 16th December ,always on a Thursday .Did you want us canvassing over Christmas and The New Year is not good either .Conservatives have a good line up. UKIP were busy yesterday cars everywhere ,This is going to be a very
interesting election . - Yes Sue you are right,the By Election is on Thursday 16th December,and Howard perhaps we should have a bi election as well as a by election,are
you standing? - John
like you say it is strange that the tories called the bye election so soon, to my mind a little disrespecful
but they probably feel if they wait to
long they will lose all 3 seats
so go now in the hope people dont realise the electons on - Sue,
Will I be able to vote in any of the three elections, and who are
my conservative candidates in the three elections? - i must admit to being shocked when i saw the election notice out even before the deceased had his memorial
service.
i suppose it must be something to do with electoral law.
- howard
no this is purely political
they could have waited up to 6 months if
they wanted - The late Roger Frayne represented KCC in the Dover Town Division here in River we have Bryan Cope .The By election is for the Temple Ewell and Lydden seat and the
Castle Ward on the Dover Town Council .
The funeral date was not given out very early and the memorial is well after his funeral .When the late Alan Dale died the by Election was called very early .
Some of uis have long memories
.
I will continue to caretake Temple Ewelll and Lydden until theBy election . - keith
i am intrigued now, what sort of political move would this be?
susan
people can survive without a town councillor for a few months, somehow this haste comes across as disrespectful to your friend who clearly seems to have been a stalwart of our town. - Cull of Senior Posts---Overdue.
With `another` £ 1.5 million pounds of cuts to DDC budget in 2011 Council Chief warns of need for `Radical Change``
The
leader of DDC Cllr Watkins is between a rock and a hard place.He realises the solution to his predicament but he needs Eric Pickles MP Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government to help him with the `Radical Change`
required.
Cllr Watkins states Eric Pickles is giving him more powers but he is not giving us more money.The money however is available from economies of scale produced when we have a Council of East Kent.
The
additioal problem of the Local Enterprise Partnership (LEP`s) economic development budget being cut by two thirds means Dover and East Kent will suffer badly.East kent must now look after itself.
Mr Pickles please help Mr.Watkins and
us.We do really need a ``Radical Change``.
cc.Eric Pickles.MP
- Roger was a very good friend of mine for many years as well as being the District
Councillor for my ward, and I'm sure if there is an internet connection where he is now he'll be having a good laugh about the kerfuffle he has caused, mixed in with a few raucous comments about the rubbish people are posting on
here.
He was elected to three councils. The County Council post is obviously not a point of issue regarding a by-election as there is another two and half years of his term to serve. District, and I presume Town Councillors also,
are in post until four days after the elections next May 6th, so there was an opportunity to call elections until 6 months before that date.
The Town Council post he held would have seen someone being co-opted if there had not
been a by-election called. As it is now, anyone eligible was able to get themselves nominated and the electorate in that ward have an opportunity to vote for their preferred candidate. That's democracy, anyone have a problem with
that?
Regarding his District Council post, Sue Nicholas has been taking on as much of Roger's duties as she can in addition to her duties as councillor for River and Vice-Chairman of the council. As a resident of that ward I was
happy to sign the call for an election so that Sue can concentrate on her other duties and we can have a democratically elected representative on the District Council, anyone have a problem with that again?
The talk of disrespect
for Roger is rubbish, the politest word I can use on here, and knowing him as I did I am sure he would say something stronger than that. It was his request, honoured by his family, that his funeral was kept private. I still don't know
whether it took place on the Thursday before or the Thursday after I signed the call for a DDC by-election, and I'm not going to ask.
I look forward to attending his memorial next week with no more mention of
this. - fail to see your point ray.
kindly explain the "rubbish" that you refer to. - As usual Reg.
you get half the story after someone else has told you the lead.
To make those radical savings you need 4 councils to agree to give up their sovreign identity.
Two of the four are prepared to explore those options,we are
one, the other two are not -at this stage-but are prepared to make major savings by putting services together or testing the market.
Mr Pickles offers no new solutions we have not agreeed before he became Secretary of
State.
In time 2-4 years, in my view, East Kent will have taken the decision to merge and will have made proposals to the Electoral Commission to reduce councillors by at least 50%, if not more.
It will then become the
largest super District and the ultimate step, Unitary status in some shape or form will follow.
In the meantime your usual visions are not original but being pursued without totally wrecking local services and navel
gazing.
I am sure your visions and pronouncements will feature as part of an election campaign for "Project Hansell" - Howard, there are
three seats up for grabs; the likely scenario is that it will be either the Conservatives or Labour who will be the front runners, so there is a lot at stake.
Labour will try, as Keith has alluded to, to make as much trouble and
denegrate the local Conservatives as they can. I'm sure there will be much mud-slinging over the next few weeks.
I firmly believe that putting your own arguements about what you (the party's candidate) will be doing and what
you stand for, is most important and not slagging off the other guy(s).
Don't forget that these are "local" elections, not National and it's what happens locally that directly affect us, as much as National
policies.
Someone said on here - people not politics, so vote for what you want done and by whom.
It may be stating the "bleedin obvious", but:
Only the people in the Town ward of Castle can vote for the Town Council
candidate.
Only the people in Temple Ewell and Lydden can vote for the District Council candidate.
Only those in the Dover Town area, can vote for the County
seat.
Roger - Lovely photos there PaulB.
Three very well-deserved Freemen of Dover.
Despite their advancing years, all three are very much alert
and still do what they can.
Well done the Town Council.
Roger - Paul, would it be possible to put names to the group photo, some people might not know
who these dignitaries are. Very nice to see this tradition has been revived. - Okay Jan...will do, will add later. You're right I know who most are but yes realise many may
not. Only two I dont know...name of chap in tall hat and name of chap at back in fawn jacket but will find out...or if anyone knows let me know ( put in the box above ) then I will add full list of names to above
editorial. - excellent pictures, good to see the three honoured in this way.
- Cllr Neil
Rix is the guy in the middle and the top hat belongs to Chris the Town Sergeant whose normal headgear was spoiled by the rain on sunday!
Super event and well attended - I was particularly pleased to see Bob Tant again whom I am
pleased to call a friend. Normally the installation of Freemen would be at the Mayor Making in May so maybe more will be brought forward for that - suggestions welcome - I know whom I would vote for...
The right to appoint
freemen was lost in 1972 when Local Govt reorganisation was proposed ( ok - I know it happened in 1974 because that is when I returned to Dover to sort out the DDC!! but it was an Act earlier)
Lynn Young lead the Council in
fighting to re-establish the Town Council and then to get back the lost right. Not just locally but Nationally with the local government organisations. - We lost the
right to bestow this title when dover went from being a borough and became a District council,the honorary freedom lapsed.
So it was very much an honour to be there on thursday and to be able to hold this ceremony, and the three
gentlemem where well deserving but I know there will be more in the future.
Even back in my time as Mayor 2006/7 with the four other head Cinque port Mayors the MPs and Lord Boyce, I went along to Westminster to lobby on this so
it has been a long struggle but we finally made it.
The person in the top hat is our new town sergeant and the other in the fawn jacket is Cllr Rix.
- Many thanks to our Councillors below Jan T and David H for the info there...all adds to the rich tapestry of life. Will add the names to the editorial above now...yes all
done. - Roger when it comes to mud slinging I recall the last time Gordon stood and even your party members said the leaflet the Tories put out was a disgusting
slur on Gordon's character,so don't start lecturing on slurring,until your party don't do it.
If you don't believe me just check the Tory leaflets when they come out! - I
agree John, it was not a good leaflet and I told them so too.
Roger - Blimey,
lets get into the replies;
1; bye elections, your answer as iv said
howard is the tories are
calling the bye election early in the hope people dont realise
the election is on and a low turnout would probably help
them.
2; Paulw
Like reg you have a
vision on what you THINK may happen
in the future, no plans just what you think.
reg on the other hand has a clear campaign in his
belief of not requiring all the councils we have and
replacing them with a unitary.
whether this becomes a reality has yet to be seen
as you kjnow paul sharing services is nothing like
a unitary.
3; well done roger for statingf the leaflet on
gordon was disgraceful shame others on here in your party dont agree.
and like john says will be watching the tory leaflets closely
.like the tories roger im sure labour will be campaignng to win
the seat,
KCC Education Funding in``Jeopardy``
The Queens speech stated the Policy of the Coalition Government was to take away the Education
funding from local authorities
The Governments White paper for `National funding of Education` confirms their intent to remove the funding of Education from Local Authorities.In our case from Kent County Council.
The KCC Education budget this year is £982 million pounds.
The total KCC budget this year is £2,400 million pounds.
This represents 41% of the total budget of KCC.
This would be a
massive reduction in Kent County Council`s revenue.So much so that it must bring into question KCC`s future.The Government confirms it will consult with KCC about their involvement with the implementation of the funding formula.
Based on the many government consultations with public/organisations in the past it does not bode well for Kent County Council.
- i can see the point you
are making keith, mid december about 6 hours of daylight, generally cold and wet, people busy with their christmas shopping and writing advance letters of apology to hand into their boss the day after the office party. - Reg, that looks like DDC might have some problems opening three new schools in Whitfield then.
- Keith
You don't know why the Conservatives are calling the election; I'm sure it is to get it out of the way, nothing to do
with having it while the electorate are sleeping.
Paul Watkins and DDC is way ahead of all the other District Councils and knows exactly what he is doing; if Dover becomes a Unitary - and you have always argued against them don't
forget, it will be because the circumstances at that time - 4/5 years down the road, determine that that will be the eventual outcome.
The District Councils of Dover, Thanet, Shepway and Canterbury may want to keep their own
identity, but continue to share services, so major savings will still be made.
Knowing what a complete balls of it the Labour group made last time they ran the administration, I hope the electorate are awake when they go to the
ballot box.
Piss-up and brewery spring to mind - and that's just the local authority, even worse in Government.
And the leaflet was bad because it was personal; I don't believe that personalities should play a part - at
any level.
Attack the policies by all means, but leave personalities and attacks on people, out of the leaflets.
Roger - alex
k.c.c. are the
responsible authority on opening schools. - I know, Howard, and that is why I followed up on Reg's summary on KCC's reduced income. Less money for KCC might
result in less funding for education. - Aaaw god bless jack woolford. An amazing man. Nice to see a pic of him on here. I haven't seen or spoken to him since he moved. Shame
really. the gentleman is still bright as a button at 90+ - Roger
its fair to say that i dont agree with your assumption on the labour party
nor would you be
exprected to agree with me about the cock ups the tories are making locally and nationally so will leave that one.
regarding unitaries please dont misquote me roger
what iv said is questions remain unanswered with regard
to unitaries as cllrs will become even more remote than they are at present,
i have for some t-ime been saying we have to many councils and one or two need to go. - Miss Hellfire,Nice to see you made it to the Dover forum hope you become amember.
- im not a great fan of such awards but that said jack
woolford kept chatting to me one night and eventually he said do i enjoy working for the express
i said im not a reporter (and i couldnt be as unkind to say thats the last paper i would work for)
was funny
though - What sort of cock-ups do you think the Conservative group are making at DDC Keith ? Or Nationally for that matter ?
I'm sorry if I have mis-quoted you on
unitaries Keith, but my understanding was that everytime Reg. has posted on here about unitaries, you have stated your concerns about being further from the electorate - is that not your main argument against them ?
Roger - roger
on unitaries im in favour if cllrs wont becom even more remote
i will repeat i feel we have to many councils now which is costing a
fortune and atr least 1 should go
on issues nationally cobbled together govt are slowly going towards the right which was widely predicted, and dont forget yo have to admire cameron for accepting lord youngs resignation, but
it doesnt move away from the fact that it was cameron who appointed him, which brings into question his ability to choose the right person.
locally
the tories stole priorys play area
not much movement on DITZ
not
doing enough to press for less councils
council waste likely to be a costly disaster
the list is endless
- My opinion is that Reg must have forseen the spending
cuts (about 40 per cent) that will hit the Councils over the next four years and will determine a new spending regime in Councils. Reg seems to have made clear that the County Council(s) are also to be hit by spending cuts.
My view of
unitarianism is that of the whole County, not East and West Kent, but one Kent. However, it would be better if each County in Britain could fund its own Council and relative District and Town Councils through more local tax, with less
going to the national Treasury. - Keith.
As I stated earlier, The East Kent Local Authorities are working to gether and will make substantial savings; in about 4/5
years time, it may be then that they are at the point where a Unitary body will be established, but it must be better to work towards that in a co-operative, mutually beneficial way, than have it foist upon them, without than co-
operation and trust, then it would be doomed to failure.
If you are looking at David Cameron's judgement because he appointed Lord Young, that's very "pot/kettle and black". Blair and Brown both apoointed people who
were absolute disasters and made a complete balls of being in Government - doubt if they could look after a child's pocket money, let alone the Government purse.
At least Lord Young offered his resignation, none of the Labour
Ministers offered their when they did something wrong - not even Brown.
Locally, the Conservatives did not steal the Priory Play Area; that closed shortly after the election in May 2003 simply because the play equipment had
not had any funding from the Labour administration and had become dangerous for the children to play on.
The removal of the play equipment was agreed by your administration (which you were a part of), but not acted upon until after
the election - a very cynical act if I may say so - wasn't it ?
I agree there is not much movement on DTIZ, but as you well know Keith, that is not the fault of DDC.
The whole Council Chamber have voted for continuing with
Bond City Ltd and their new architects have stated quite categorically that we should have a quality development here, not a quick one that will be regretted later.
The whole financial set-up on Town Centre developement (for any Town)
has changed, so when the time, the plans and the money is in place, it will move forward.
As I said earlier,the move towards smaller and less Councils is being progressed.
The waste program will actually be cheaper
for DDC than the current one and will in fact be a much better service.
Roger - Hi Vic. I did fire off a registration email several months ago, not heard
anything back. Heyho.. Not to worry i don't mind being refused access to the members club. ;) I shall just continue to read the forum and any contributions i wish to make i shall do so via the homeage.
- the politicos score points off of each other, 7 years later the densely populated area of priory still has no children's play area.
says rather a lot. - I have never noticed that the people I bump into in Dover who live in Priory are any more dense than those from other wards (with the exception obviously of the elysian
fields of River). I presume that you are comparing them to the general UK population???? - to Keith and Paul Harrison.
If Aldershot don't sell all their 2000 tix will
dover recall them to sell onto Dover fans that have not yet managed to get tickets? Sounds like it's gonna be a cold afternoon at crabble sat. I also hear Aldershot are bringing 6 coaches. - Roger
It will come as no surprize to you that i disagree witn a large part of your last posting.
we wont ever agree on the political front, so theres realy no point
in going there.
on unitaries
its great to have councils working together and the savings that would be made.
there is also the opportunity to look at unitaries thats the one step further.
but ceretainly it looks like
no one is looking at the big cost of having 3 councils operating and it looks like we are stuck with this for some years to come.
On the DITZ i just hope there is some movement soon.
sorry roger just spotted your last few
lines, move towards less councils is being worked on, do you have details on this???
on recycling i think it is confusing and going to be a nighmare when it comes in. - Miss Hellfire
Hopefully Aldershot will sell 1000-1500 for Saturday, but no more can be made available for Dover Supporters. - Segregation means that there
are set areas for Dover and Aldershot fans so if Aldershot do not sell all of their allocation there will be empty sections of the ground which will be a shame. - miss
hellfire
my understanding is the aldershot tickets can only be purchased for away fans.
the ground segregates the two fans therefore dover supporters unable to have these tickets.
the dover end of the ground is now
full - phooey... Is it cos of segregation issues? I've been trying to reschedule my commitments to make this match. May have to stand with the shots then... boohoo.
Or just
wait till we draw one of the big boys in tie 3.
I've followed DAFC for years via press and what the hardcore supporters fill me in on. Not been to see them for yonks. that's what self employment does for your social life... - I don't call it point-scoring Howard, but Keith made a statement which is not true, so I replied that's all - it's not on to blame the Conservatives for taking away the
play equipment in Clarendon, it was organised before the election by the Labour group, but they (cynically) left the removal until after that election - because it would have been politically sensitive; Keith can't deny it, he was part
of the Cabinet I believe.
I have tried and tried to get play equipment reinstated there without any success - that's not to say it won't ever be back as a play
area.
Roger - Roger where is the £250.000 that was put by for the play ground then,it was there when I was on the Town Council,and you Blues had that cash
! - totally disagree roger, your post mentions the two main parties a few times.
7 years and no play area?
in that time a state of the art play area has
been installed in connaught park and somewhere else (i forget where), we do not want anything expensive or grand, just a basic thing will do. - Howard
Having
seen what has happened over in Elham, why dont the people of the Priory area try to do the same? - This is old hat,the money was put there for a new playground at the
Priory ward but was never used for that,You can not look at what happens in the parish of Elham to that of the Priory ward .Lot for money out at Elham. - roger
wont
keepon as your a nice guy realy your view on tories is misguided
but as i said we wont ever agree so no point.
howards right all those years under tory control and still no play area
im willing to accept labour got it
wrong
but with that the tories also still are getting it wrong.
i could be a cynic and say the local tories put in other play areas since in tory wards
but thats another
story - stewart/vic
put me out of my misery, what happened in elham?
all i know of it is that posh barry rides to hounds on boxing day. - I draw your attention to www.playforelham.co.uk/KingGeorgeVPlayingField/doc/66/page.htm
- No disresect to
any particular individuals of our local authorities. If as much time & effort was put into getting jobs done as there is bickering about getting the job done Dover would not be in such a mess. Look at what LRCF have achieved in a small
space of time and they are (to my knowledge) unpaid volunteers. If it was left to those in charge sill nothing would be done because they'd still be bickering about what artwork to put up and if it's cost effective.
Oh i have
so much to say.. Maybe i should try sending off another activation email. I can't putt what i want to say eloquently enough here.
- your membership will be
welcomed "miss hellfire", as long as you post under your real name. - But i prefer miss hellfire. I don't like my real name...
- Howard, She is very good looking and does a mean haircut.
- tic in Vics box for the temple ewell vacancy
lol.. - doesn't work that way, real names or nothing.
i am not that keen on my name. - Miss Hellfire I dont remember getting an email from you previously but if you drop me a line again we can get you onboard.
But as Howard says there, we are not a website that uses pseudynoms, so it would have to be
your real name. But the real name idea works out best in the end. Members are generally happier that way, knowing who their talking to and so on.
By the way everyone, to see the pic above at its best press F11 on your
keyboard.
- This has been done to death so many times on here.
As I'm sure, just about everyone knows, DDC, during 2003/4 made the decision (unlike
Labour) that children and children's play areas were worth investing in and so made a policy of investing in "strategic" play areas.
A long process of consultation was made and the strategic play areas were decided upon
(Elmsvale Rec. for the Maxton, Elmsvale and Priory ward).
Equipment was gradually replaced as money became available and was granted.
It is true that around £100,000 (where did you get £250,000 Vic ?)was originally put aside
for play equipment etc. in the Priory part of the ward, but a suitable area was needed; that suitable area was never found and the £100,000 put aside was eventually used for other purposes.
I didn't agree with that, but the money
couldn't be left to one side for ever - so it got gobbled up elsewhere - that's they way it is.
I always thought that the old Clarendon Play area was the best location for a Priory area play area, but it was deemed as unsafe and
unsuitable by the officers at DDC and I understand, the Council's insurance company and health and safety.
So where can a play area go ?
There may be section 106 money sometime in the future, so you tell me where a play
area can be located - that will be of maximum benefit to the greatest number of people.
Not having a play area in the Priory area is NOT a nasty conservative conspiracy - as far as I am aware, every available plot/piece of land
has been looked at and assessed; you can't force a land-owner to sell his land to the council for a play area when it coulld be sold for tens of thousands of pounds more, for residential redevelopment.
Roger - Very dramatic picture above I wonder if anyone else has noticed where abouts it hangs in their travels.
- dtc offices.
- The real answer on play areas is the present (tory administration)decided to close many play areas
and instead have just a few scattered across the District.
I think now that there has been a change in govt and a lot of the health and safety that officers hide behind should be revisited.
also all the sites already put
forward
we can lay blame for ever more but now roger your lot can decide if it wants priory to have a play area
its now down to you
laying blame no longer works - kieth,are you having a bad day by any chance.
- nope im having a grand day
- A massive own goal from
DTC! - I could keep arguing on this because you are still not stating how it was.
It was NOT a case of nasty Tories taking away children's play equipment, it was a case
of Nasty Labour not investing in play equipment and areas when they were in power - they could have done exactly the same exercise as the Conservatives a few years earlier, on play areas and perhaps saved them all.
When the
Conservatives took over, an assessment was made of all of them and it was found that too many had faulty/dangerous play equipment, so a Strategic Play area consultation was made - and the rest, as they say, is history.
You may be
right Keith about Health and Safety - far too much red-tape was intruduced since 1997, so much so that local community groups couldn't have egg & spoon races any more.
It's really is NOT a case of the Conservatives can decide to
have a play area in the Priory part of the ward - it's a case of where - you tell me where and I'll get it assessed.
As far as I am aware, all available bits of land in and around Priory have been loocked at and where
appropriate, the owners have been contacted and none could be turned into a play area.
Roger
- Roger makes a good point.
In my time as Tech
Services Chairman we had a programme of safety surface installation and, with that, developed a programme of phased investment for repairs and renewals.
It is clear that after we left power that programme was abanddoned by Labour
at some point, hence the terrible condition of play areas inherited when the Conservatives regained control. - i had no idea a play area could be such a political
thing.
i feel sure the children will be very understanding over this. - I thought during election time we had to be very careful on what is posted .Thst
includes pictures . - Howard - it is only political because the programme of repairs and renewal were abandoned by Labour and then Keith has tried to blame the
Conservative administration for the fall-out from that. - Barryw. Roger
And i will contine to blame the tory administration.
we can harp on about past years
but as howard says it doesnt solve the problem.
we now look to where do we go from here?
Im a great fan of health and safety
but lets be fair, how many of us used as children play equipment, fell off from a height
and learnt not to do that again.
so again i say Roger, there are areas that should be re-visited if you truely believe priory should have a play area.
of course the problem now is the money has been spent outside of priory
on unrelated projects.
we should be looking at the original site and maybe some of the other sites.
i think need to find council finance like the 100 grand, not hope some planning 106 agreement give us a few
crumbs - there seems like blame and counter blame between two partys,lets just say that both partys are to blame and be done with it.now boys lets kiss and make up with one
another. - It does appear that it has become tit for tat, but it is much more important than that.
Keith states he wants to continue blaming the
Conservatives and this is neither right nor fair and does not address the reason why we don't (now) have a play area in the Priory ward.
I will make further inquiries.
Roger
- roger, maybe if both partys sat round a table with a meadiator and thrash out a compermise.
- that
won't happen brian, this close to an election, point scoring is the order of the day.
i am still of the view that the site should be on the western heights close to clarendon place.
there is a nice flat piece of ground
that looked like it was a 5 a side football pitch in a previous life that would be ideal. - howard,a starting point for the table.
- Well put Mr Webb,It does look like the view you would get from the bay,even more because it does show a rock fall just like the one at the Bay.
- Thank you Mike straight to the point and honest as always I am in full support look forward to seeing you all on Saturday.
- Actually I think the view is more like underneath Lydden Spout looking towards Folkestone.
- As The Mayor
herself says in the latest issue of Dover Life, "The White Cliffs are officially one of the seven most recognised landmarks worldwide" - not by Dover Town Council it seems.
The initial thread I put up was a bit of fun and did
have a query on it, there were only eight follow up posts until the local press passed it on to the media (without speaking to me), and with several town councillors and prospective councillors posting on here I would have thought they
would have passed it on before then. I declined several requests for TV and radio interviews on Tuesday as I'm not the story just the person who spotted it.
I run several websites for myself, community groups, and businesses with
local and international customers. If I had been given that brief I would never have used a photo that isn't the real White Cliffs, it is a most ridiculous thing to do. If I had made an honest mistake and it had been pointed out to me I
would have changed it within ten minutes with an apology to the customer, who in thise case are the ratepayers of Dover.
- howard
i think any play area will be
welcomed, and the 5 a side plot you advise upon is still used by locals to take there kids to play footy with the two goals in place.
whilst its good again to highlight another site maybe need to look at this site in more
detail.
i will move away from blame as this doesnt help locals get what they want.
we now need to re visit sites the head of vale view primary school (if contacted)is more up for a play area on the kcc land by the ex
resource centre close to winchelsea street.
clarendon place ex site has a number of options where site could go
this for a start anyway.
then of course we have the issue of dosh.
the£100,000 or £200,000 grand
has now gone so unlikely to find dosh, and it appears DDC relying on planning 106 agreement(where, when a developer wants to build lots houses, he has to provide commnitty facilities)of corse they could say no, then what??
so lets
get on with things - Ray that is where I would differ from Mike Webb too, obviously us on Doverforum being in the media business we are very glad that you put the story up
here. I would also hope all our 80 or so forumites would do the same thing and get stories from all walks of life.
Of course beforehand none of us really know what stories are going to take off and go global as it were.
We
had a very similar situation with a joke by RogerW on our now famous Jokes Page. It too went on television and in the national newspapers although it was again initially a fairly small story, but whooosh it took off. It wasnt a
comfortable time for Roger though who of course meant no harm whatsoever.
Thats why we are very cautious at times about people posting anywhere on the site and always try to make forumites aware that what they say can be read far
and wide and often is. We have mentioned this numerous times....and some topics are much more sensitive than others...race, religion, sex and so on.
But at the end of the day all round we seem to have struck a reasonable
balance. - The Town Clerk seems to think that the fuss is all Dover Forum's fault and not that of the person who made the mistake and then failed to correct it.
Talk about pass the buck. - PAULB
I m with you on this one.
this publicity has done little to enhance Dover town council
im realy surprized the web site wasnt
changed gaining photos from many forumites offers including our very own paulw
lets hope this gets sorted very soon - This is a storm in a teacup. The only thing worse
than bad publicity is no publicity and Oscar Wilde was quoted as saying "the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about". Anything which raises Dover's profile is good for the town. We should end it with my
friend Mr Webb being led through the Market square in sackcloth and ashes and being put in the stocks. Now that would put Dover back in the news in a week or two! How about it Mike? like it or not it's PR exposure for the town, the more
the merrier. - peter
david shaw then mp for dover said the same
but he lost the next election!!!! - What on earth did you expect as a re-action??
If you wish to act like numpies, then expect the public to treat you as numpies!!! - jimmy,thats
numpty. - Paul, when I've spoken to any of the media I've referred them to the original article on the forum so they can see how it developed for themselves and hopefully
keep the forum bookmarked (not that I'm saying some reporters like to be spoonfed!). Kent on Sunday will probably have an item, hopefully with the link.
I guess I'm now in a small club with Roger and Vic (any others you can
think of?), we might have to an inaugural AGM in the new year and decide on an appropriate name. - don't worry we will find a way of fitting up a few more so that you
have a quorum.
alex and jimmy look like good candidates. - SORRY but have I missed soming,what are you talking about please,and where do I fit in.?
- if you form a committee vic will be on it lol lol
- Alex is always ready to do service for Dover, at a moment's
notice! - Alexander,I need you later in the week I will email you later, or ring me on my m07758710889, or come and see me this morning outside the DTC office by the Town
HALL..tHANKS - All Day event from 12 noon till 6 pm Christmas switch on is it an all day event as advertised on front page or just for 6 hours is this another web cock
up. we all seem to be worried about getting things right so can we get this right. - Gosh that is amazeing to see the seafront with snow as here at the top of the hill
there is almost none.That will give todays christmas light switch on a real wintery feel. - Simply beautiful photos. Thank
you. - makes you want to get your skis out dunit.
- on second thoughts 5 months in austrailia sounds
better. - great set of pictures there of the switch on.
i had never heard of sid sloane, until this week is the chap shaking hands with him the same one that does the
music at the regatta? - Howard im with you on that one I had never heard of Sid Sloane, but he was a really nice chap as were the others and he spent time going
around talking to the kids. Yes PB as always has done a great set of pics, must admit I enjoyed myself to. - Sid Sloane is the CBeebies and BBC Worldwide Childrens
Presenter, but as we all now know from the picture above, he is really a Big Cuddly Rabbit. Great Photos PaulB, the kids look as though they are having a great time.
The stilt walkers were fantastic, a fifteen foot White
Christmas tree and Toy Soldier walked towards me and had to partake in an alcoholic beverage as I thought I was seeing things lol! I was given a rare treat catching own very own Mayoress Ronnie Philpott jiving to 'forties-style' music
outside the Maison Dieu offices. - Looks like everyone had a great time judging by the photos!
- looks like a good evening.
- Glad all are enjoying the pictures above. The screaming young
blighters almost left me deaf with their shrieking decibel levels. I couldnt believe it could be so loud but standing there in front of the high pitched blast was a reveleation. Crikey! thought I...or words to that effect, but I
struggled on manfully to get the pictures above!lol!!
And afterwards I fell into Blakes with Jan T to get some of the hot mulled wine. The steaming mulled wine certainly warms yer innards up after a freezin' Market Sq. And who
should be in there but.. yes you've guessed it, that young Nigel Collor fella and the even younger Phil Eyden. In popped Tony Jayms then and all served up by forumite Peter Garstin himself.
I had help getting the pictures though,
full co-operation from the Dover Town Council in the shape of Mayor Sue, Mayoress Ronnie, Dep Mayor David H, Jan T herself, and last but certainly not least the hard working Tracy Hubbard who all combined to make it a great day all
round. Judging by the feedback we are getting here on Doverforum it was one of the most successful of days. - It was a great night on saturday at the big switch
on, the kids loved the reindeers . - mel,frezers full to over flowing.lol
- credit wheres its due
it
was a great day
really well organised
well done to the organisers - Brian told you to mind the antlers i thought you were walking funny the other day lol
- mel,saw the antlers stigking out of your handbag when i last saw you.lol
- Brian you told me they were battery
operated ! lol - mel,you crack me up.lol
- Mel and Brian comon guys no more of this one to one type texting. It
irritates everyone else believe me, so please just use frontpage for general comments on the subjects featured or on any topic. You must always remember there are others looking in so try to give the next guy or the viewer something to
read. Thanks. - Surely by voting UKIP, people will be voting for stagnation in Dover and no future investment in the Town or the Port; not a good leg to stand on,
I would have thought.
Roger - The Port has always developed to meet the needs of it's customers while being a Trust Port and would do so in the future if the
obsession with privatisation was removed. - ukip wont get anywhere time to give up me thinks.
- So Vic
finally gets his photo on the website! - I shall seek permission to talk about our excellent candidate who is standing for Temple Ewell with Lydden .A person who will carry on the
good work which Roger started. - Thank you for that Paul ,over the next few days I will be adding to this i know there are other issues like (1)No to Large developments in our
villages.(2)Yes To National and Local Referendums such as "The sell of our Port.(3)Yes to lower business rates. (4)Yes Dover and Deal police open 24hrs. Yes And this is one I am aready working on as a member of the East Kent NHS trust
The new Dover and the Deal Hospitals geting a 24hr A&E UNIT.
(LAST ONE FOR NOW) Yes to Town &Parish Councils to take extra responsibilities with appropriate funding. Thank ypu for reading this. But over the next week or two some of
you will be reading more when it comes in the letter box.. As said above and this is down to weather on the day which is Friday, Mr Nigel Farage EMP and our leader who you all have seen on the TV will be in Dover in the morning,I will be
ring some door bells and please feel free to talk to him, best place to see him will be in the Town. - Just to add to this there is a Casual Vacancy till next May on
the River Parish Council,And I am looking into it,and might be and say again might be standing for it. thank you. - assuming the weather permits vic, let us know when mr
farage will arrive and where we can meet him, many forumites would be interested. - Thank you for that Howard,at this time it is wait and see ,I am keeping a very
close eye on the weather at this time,if all the mainRds and the M/WAYS stay open then it is all go for the visit, - I have been off the air for awhile I see Vic has
been throwing grit down .I have phoned KHS .They gritted twice yesterday .I do try to keep this area free from ice and snow . - The oddest bit of news to emerge today concerns
Nigel Farage. Very topical indeed, as you will have grasped by now dear reader that Mr Farage, leader of all UKIP, is coming to Dover on friday..weather of course permitting. Yours truly will endeavour to get a picture of the UKIP TV
personality on the day if possible.
But Im rambling..the news is that the pilot who was flying the plane when it crashed to the ground at general election time, with both himself and said Nigel on board, has threatened twice now
since to kill Nigel. Honestly, there's never a dull moment.
Why he should want to kill Nigel hasnt emerged. Perhaps its a dispute over the flight bill, or a dispute over the flight plan on the big day in question, when the UKIP
banner got endangled with the planes rudder and down she went. They were both lucky to get out alive.
However it seems the pilot has other ideas...?? - without giving vic to much publicity(which he craves)
i think probably ukip etc should be in a political thread/blog like barries
- Hmmm no Keef, because
I have used both Labour Press Releases and Conservative statements on the frontpage here in the past, so fair's fair and this is a good and topical story with Nigel Farage coming on friday and so on. Also see my earlier post ... very
topical with the story today that Nigels pilot has threatened to kill him. See my post below.
The Conservatives dont send me items I must say, but Charlie has responded with statements to items on here. If they would like to send
me upfront releases I would also use them as I do with Labour...so come along Conservatives get yer accumulative fingers out.
So to sum up Keef..we try to be fair to
all. - keith
normally yes.
in this case it was a front page editorial, the same would apply to any other news release sent in by a
candidate. - howard/paulb
i will attempt to get a labour one - I will add to this one,I am not like
Barry,and not so good as he is in geting points over ,so no thank you on this one ,If it had been Mr Cooper, Or Mr Buckey, they are alot better than me,at writing and get over to the public,but I am the chairman at this time,so it is a
no from me. But Keith thank you for saying it. - vic
think your missing my point - This could end up as
onelines so I have no more to add to this,only to say that the Dover Forum is very fair with all partys ,and they can all do what We at UKIP HAVE DONE and for that i again say thank you to the forum. - keith
your memory must be failing you, only last week we had one from red gordon giving his viewpoint, the forum fuhrer put it straight on the front page. - howard,kieths not alone i missed it to.
- I dont believe you guys! we had several featured press releases
from Gordon and used his picture several times. Even had Charlie responding. its all there in All Recent Features if you care to trawl that way..sheeesh! - Well
said Paul B, the coverage on this page does not favour any party although with one party favoured by the majority of posters they probably think it should! - I remember Gordon
being front page it must be an age thing lol - Just to let you know because of the very bad weather the Visit of MR Farage tomorrow morning is off ,he can not get
back to the UK yet and with the roads and railways like they are we have called it off till the weather gets better. Thank you. - Vic
Please can you tell us if UKIP has
made representation to the Minister of Transport and if so what the positive plan is to move the lorry traffic and resolve the issue of Calais taking our business once we do nothing. You are aware I am sure of Calais' plans to develop
their port which are well underway?
There appear to be many negative views but few with proper information attached. - howard/paulb how come my posts on this
section keep disapearing,its becoming quite anoying. - Brian you keep putting up very silly posts to Mel all the time. I have asked you earlier not to do it, scroll down and
see....so please comply. I will email you shortly. - David H, saw your post, and thought of giving a personal reply i.e. from my own view, not that of UKIP in
general. I am not aware of an issue of Calais taking over any business in Dover. However, as Calais is developing their own port, this would imply that Dover's Port has good opportunites ahead, as it is the only major port that Calais
connects to.
As for removing lorry traffic from Dover town-centre, there are some positive plans in my representation. - Yes we do know about the development of Calais
Thank you and we also know about the one at Boulogne costing millions and now is wothless, that will not happen to Calais ,but there will be a downside to the trade they are hopeing for. If you are trying to catch me out you are going
to have to do alot better than that one. - this has lost me completely, in what way could calais take business away from dover?
- no catching Vic - just need to know an answer to my question - views and opinions without facts are not much use.
- They are the facts ,the Lorry side of trade is on the downside not up, I am looking at it all now with my books from the D,H,B, and we are going to see more of that over the next few
years,that is why T2 is now not needed ,It is not me that needs to keep up with it all .As I said there is no need to sell the port to anyone. It can make any changes it need do with its own funding. - Cruise business for a start - if Calais' new cruise ternminal is cheaper and better than ours, they may use that more or instead of Dover's cruise terminals.
As
Calais Port expands, so should Dover's.
Roger - thanks for your comments vic and roger, helps people looking in to know what the issues are.
people
that are not members look at the front page sometimes and think that it is only for the in crowd, and cannot work out what is being discussed. - Sorry Roger that is
not the case ,I HAVE SAID TIME AND TIME AGAIN there is room for both as we are, All is needed is the births we have need to be deeper and longer it can be done yes it will cost but alot less than T2 which the DHB are now saying at this
time T2 is not needed that is not me saying it but the DHB and they must know. - And let us all not forget it was only just over two years ago,that the D.H.B. WAS
SAYING LIKE i HAVE ALWAYS SAID
2.We are against any sell of the port of Dover" but they now know that some members of the D.H.B. will get very very big pay off up to about £100.000 to £900.000 each,they will be up the road in their
big cars and never to be seen again. - paulb,e-mail not working,speak to me next time we meet.
- as i said
previsly port of calias are playing there cards close to there chest. - paulb
i think you have missed my point
i fully understand the labour party has used your front
page
what i was saying was wouldnt it be better for those not interested in politics for these things to go on a seperate politics page - keith
most press
releases automatically go on the front page otherwise people would not send them in.
though this is called dover forum it is a magazine, like all such publications the newest/biggest story is what the readers look for.
i
know what you are saying about political blogs, but only blue barry does one. - With reference to the Crabble Athletic Ground thread on the member’s forum, the River
Parish Council/Ward Councillors leaflet can be viewed at www.riverparish.fsnet.co.uk - And I do not want to do one,Keith my old mate time to drop this one .Barry has been
doing his Blog now for over a year ,and this is the first time you have said anything about it,why is that,? And who would do the red one,you have already said you have left the party.? - barry's blog has been going for a lot longer than a year vic(i think).
excellent though it is i would like to see other parties do something similar, would stimulate
debate.
will not hold my breath though. - Well done to all at the Port for keeping it running despite all the problems, interesting that Bob refers to " such
a important National asset " it is and long may it remain that way and not a profit driven private company! - Standing still at the Port of Dover is not an option Vic; if it
was, we'd still be loading cars via a crane and all trucks would go via the tunnel.
Growth in trucks (numbers) will increase as times get better - if you don't plan for the future - you won't have one, all you'll have is
stagnation and that is not a good platform to stand on for an election.
As the Port grows, so does employment, so there's many benefits in growth.
Roger - okay i will rest my case, will leave it there
- oh no the bromance has had a fallout sure they will be loved up before the next Dover game .
- Martin yes the Port still running through the abysmal weather so full marks to them. As Bob Goldfield says above..."vital to keep the national asset fully
functioning".
Even though our dear weathermen/girls said there would be no more snow this morning, Im sure I heard this.. it powered down for hours, but the good news is the Port is still running. Seems to have stopped snowing
now with a touch of blue sky on the horizon..gadzooks! blue sky!..yes really. - incredible effort by the port workers, it is bleak enough there in winter without
the snow and ice.
i feel sorry mostly for the ones that have to stand in the open and call vehicles forward, how they can do that in minus 10 degrees is beyond me. - That is why they are called "penguins" Howard. LOL
Joking aside it is no joke standing around this weather. I am so glad that I am retired, I hated joining ships at 4.30 in the morning especially in this
weather. - I can talk more about it now , the new Hospital for Dover .
I would like to see the new design for that Hospital now up on this page.I was asked not to
say anything about it till it was put in the Dover Express this week.
You can read what I have said about it on page 4 of the Dover Express,also that of our MP, and Mr Reg Hansell ,over the last year or two I have not agreed with
them, and just to add that Mr Hansell has said in the paper today that the only parking there could be is for two cars, this is not true a new car park for staff and the public will be built.
This Hospital will be very good for
our town, if lots more new equipment and facillities. I will be asking as I have in the pass the the N.H.S. could look at a 24hr A&E unit for both the Dover and Deal Hospitals or just one of them geting it,this would help and save time
trying to get to the ones we have now,and also that we can get more outpatients appointmentsat the new Hospital,I got up and said this at the last meeting I went to,I wwent on to say if you are old or in pain the last thing you need is a
long bus or train or even car ride to and from a hostpital again like we have today.
The time table for this new Hospital is Building will start next year and open in 2013 , Thank you ,if you wish to ask me more about it or add
to it please tell me on this page ,and I will try to help you. thank you.or email me - Sorry about some of the wording I am still trying not to
look at all the keys,and as you can see it does not work. - Vic I have knocked your post at 2.28 into shape, added paragraphs and so on so that it is now much easier to
follow. It was a wee bit congested. But of course havent changed your wording.
I dont have any info on this latest hospital situation to hand, nor do I have the design so not able to help with regard to getting it on the frontpage
here. Nor have I seen the Dover Express as havent been able to get out in comfort this week due to the prevailing conditions. So better assume that a number of us are talking blindly about this. So we rely on yourself Vic. Naturally,
speaking from my own position on these things, I wouldnt agree with holding back until the Dover Express comes out. Its the internet age...but there we are. I would say that wouldnt i??
But well done Vic for letting us know, but
assume many wont have seen the paper.
- Thank you for doing that for me Paul,I do my best but I am the first to say I am not that good.The Dover Express I
must say have done avery good job in puting out to the public about the new Hospital,and I feel that it would have been wrong of me to jump in first ,because they have been working on this for a week and also they can find out even more
then I can. I think where we can we shoud work with the press. The design is in the paper,I do not know how to get a photo onto the PC then out again to the Forum,if I did you would have had one today. - vic
there would have been a lead to connect the camera to your p.c. included with the camera.
once you plug it in wait for a few seconds then a pop up will ask
you what to do next, they highlight the best choice.
it is then normally a case of just tapping "next" a few times until they ask you where to store your pictures.
with mine it is windows live photo gallery.
when you
come to the stage of loading it onto the forum, find the thread you want, press "reply" then "add a photo", you will get a list of choices then just follow the instructions. - Yes,You are right,I have been told so many times.but it is Vic Matcham you are talking to,and I am not that good with the PC but uill try again later. Thank you.
- Sorry to be a kill joy but keeping a port running in cold weather is no big deal. If the sea were to freeze then that would be different. All DHB have to do is get the
traffic from their front gate to the ferry's. I suspect the ramps etc they have are heated as is good practise else where. All traffic reaches the docks through the efforts of the appropriate highway authority. Nothing to do with DHB.
A big gold star to the people that have struggled to get in to keep the port open. Probably not Bob Goldfield, who I believe lives Canterbury way. Lets not forget also that the people working out in the extremes of weather are those that
as I understand it are no longer DHB staff but now contract staff.
Good old Bob G once again claims huge credit for something that the DHB have little or no control over, all the success is by
others. - I would like to go off track for a moment ,this morning I rang both DDC & KCC to explain about A small road King Lea Way Aycliffe I have not moved my car for 3 days
and both sides of me I have Many people who are disabled and myself.
I wanted to go to the shops to get Heating and food but was afraid that if I took car out I would not get back in as this road as quite an incline and we have
had no gritters on this estate for those 3 days even buses were not getting up here.
Both DDC & KCC are the most uncaring councils i have ever come across I ask about getting six or ten shovels of grit to spread on this hill and i
was willing to go and get it myself. Both Laughed and said you got no chance The girl on the Switchboard at KCC told me to stop wasting there time and cut me off. I and at lest 3 other people have had heart attacks in the last 4 months
and all live on the ropewalk and need to get medicines food and heating.
If this is what you councils call a caring society I would rather be dead than ask you load of hypocrites for any help.
So my wife and I started to
clear this road by hand when along came a yellow tractor with a plow he saw we were having a bit of trouble so he stopped and cleared the road. Thank you whoever you are, you allowed sick and vulnerable people to get to the shops for
there food.. and as for voting in local you lot can freeze in hell. - mooring partys enployed by p&o,security g4s.need i have to say any
more. - Brian, no you got it in one.
The whole DHB press release is a stack of disingenuous nonsense. How many times does Dover and the surrounds get gridlocked by
operation stack. It's no good DHB saying it's not their fault here, it's their turn up and go policy for freight that causes all the road congestion problems. Other things simply exacerbate this. Lets hope the Peoples Port bid is
successful and we can get rid of these DHB Directors who treat the people of Dover with such contempt. - couldn't agree more alan, we live in the 21st century and are subject
to 19th century conditions due to a bit of a cold snap.
however we go to the polling booths in spring, memories are short.
graham
thanks for your input, have you considered joining the members club and posting on all
subjects?
a simple e mail to the forum fuhrer at dover7@msn.com and you would be able to post live on any subject. - Howard, had thought about it but I don't enjoy some of the silly politics that sometimes gets pushed to the fore over the real
issues that affect Dover. Clever, amusing witty banter is goodtho' when it has appeared in the few months I have been looking on the Forum. Your right on the memory point, many people seem to have the once around the goldfish bowl
problem when elections come around. - come on graham, you come across as having a sharp mind, it is your duty to comtribute to debates that affect future generations in
dover. - Howard, I'll give it a go but returning to Dover after 36 years working in London I find I'm not informed enough to make useful comment in quite a few
areas. Born and bred in Dover I still have a soft spot for the Town and believe that it has huge potential, it's not simply a port. A good example is the Girls Grammer School which I've been told is amongst the top ten in the country.
I could go on but it would get boring. - great stuff graham, all the management team are immigrants, doesn't mean that any of us are less than committed to our fair
town.
passion is more relevant than geography. - Don't forget the Hammonds workers unloading the cargo ships, so that produce can get to the shops
- Alan a very very good post there indeed. I have added some paragraphs to the post now and it is now easier to read and will help get your message across. I would like to attract
the attention of DDC and KCC Councils to your plight there if possible.
ALL COUNCIL's...look at Alan Taylors post below!!
Very interesting info about the yellow tractor too. Glad he was able to help Alan. Up until
yesterday they were on dodgy ground for helping out as they use a different fuel. You may like to look at the thread on Red Diesel for more info on that. - Alan
I have emailed two people at Kent Highways about clearing Aycliffe and the needs of the residents there.
I appreciate it is Saturday now, but I know that at least one of them will be there, so they may be
able to help.
Here's a copy of my email:
"I have been advised by residents of Aycliffe (just on the edge of Dover, on the A20) that there hasn't been any snow-clearance at all and there are many people who need to
get down into Town to get provisions and medicines, but can't, due to the road conditions.
Can something be done for them as soon as possible ? I know it is supposed to rain today, which may help clear some snow, but many of
these are elderly and infirm people, who simply cannot get out due to these conditions.
Kind Regards
Roger Walkden
Dover District Councillor"
I know it is easy for me to say Alan, but perhaps
the local Councillors there should have been asked to contact Kent Highways - if they had of been, it could have been cleared a couple of days ago.
The Community Pay-Back team should be brought in to help clear the snow where Kent
Highways don't/can't/won't go.
I read in the Kent on Saturday paper on-line today, that at least 50% of offenders given community service spend it working (working ?) in a Charity shop.
This has to be a joke; in these times
of austerity, they should be doing all sorts of real community service; real work - clearing snow, spreading grit and tidying up Town Centres etc. etc.
What's the matter with the people in charge of this ?
Roger - Roger
as your aware, like ayclife priory maxton and elms vale pavements, side roads have hardly been gritted, and many residents become
housebound, bus services stopped.
as i stated on another thread the transport minister was clear when he stated there is enough salt everywhere so there is no excuse for councils to have gritted every road.
He came on tv
again to say the same thing.
So where does that leave us?
just look at priory maxton, elms vale, people houseband because there council has presumably made the decision not to salt Dover?
we look to our KCC
representative(mr collor)who has dissappeared for some time, we want answers.
if theres a good reason for not salting side roads, then lets hear it.
I get fed up of not hearing from our kcc member, but also nick chard at county
hall sending out lealets on how wonderful the kcc are, yet this they have got badly wrong.
- I'm doing what I can Keith; I appreciate that it appears that not many
lessons seem to be learned each time it snows.
I have just had a phone call replying to my email to Kent Highways, they are sending a gang to help clear the roads and pavements in Aycliffe, concentrating around the shop and hills
around there and then they'll go on to clear by the school.
It is/has been raining, but it will take time to clear the ice that is impacted hard on the roads/pavements.
They will also be back working in the Town Centre and
up Folkestone Road.
I appreciate that there are many roads in the Maxton Elmsvale and Priory ward that are not cleared; I also appreciate that there are a finite number of people available to work on these secondary roads and
pavements.
If perhaps Councillors contact Highways and let them know where it is worse (everywhere ?), they'll help with those areas.
I still maintain that the Community Pay-Back teams should be working out there
too.
Most people (I appreciate not all) could perhaps clear the path outside their house and maybe putting some salt down would help too.
Just think how clear Folkestone Road (and all other roads) would be if everyone cleared
the path outside their own property instead of relying always, on KCC/DDC.
Roger - I cannot believe that it has been left to Roger to complain to KHS re the
roads in Aycliffe.
I agree where is Nigel
I have just seen a Grit lorry go past here .I think they were topping up the grit bins .
I think Roger we will have something to say at JTB on the 20th .I will find somewhere to raise
the issuie .
I cannot get out myself but yesterday saw more cars going up and down the road .
I do ring people in my ward to see how things are
Alan did you ring your local councillors ??
We are here to serve .. - I understand buses are ok ,and main roads ok in River .A quick call round does the trick .
- Thankyou Alan for an
excellent post.
I hope this gets seen by all at County Hall in Maidstone so they realise the plight of those who are trapped by the snow and ice. - impassioned stuff
there and rightly so, the maxton/temple ewell bus is still not running although roads have been mostly cleared by the rain and last night's gritting(yes finally).
have k.c.c. told the operator i wonder?
roger
it is still
not clear whether residents can be sued if someone slips on a cleared area that ices up. - First Thank you all for reading this. I did contact Kent Highways First a
young man said they were trying to keep the main roads free first and we were a secondary route and bus routes have no priority.Now it has rained here all night this hill is now free of snow,there used to be a grit box at the top but
some one has taken it away. As for KCC I asked the lady on switchboard if I could speak with the Leader or his Sec, she said he wont take calls from the public then she cut me off, when we had this sort of snow years ago the council
lorries had chains so did the buses this helped to brake up any bad bits of snow packed roads and allow people to move about. without being rude I think this Leader of KCC should go he has No Idea what People are going through and most
likely does not care. Thank you all again who have tried to help it is Appreciated. - Forgot to add if Nigel Collor wants to get re-elected it is
time to start posting again after all you are supposed to be representing Dover. - Alan, I appreciate that the weather has been tough and that the gritters haven't got to
Aycliffe. But it really isn't the only area that wasn't cleared over the past few days. Lots of non major routes in Dover have been left alone. Thick ice has covered the roads leaving plenty of less than able people unable to leave
their homes to get provisions. I am one of many, who live in the town centre, and couldn't use my vehicle to get into the main town to shop.
I am able bodied and managed the walk to get anything I needed. I have a number of
disabled neighbours and one with a very small baby. I made sure that when I was going into town I knocked to see if I could pick them anything up so they didn't go without essentials.
Maybe you have neighbours that would help
out if and when the roads are too treacherous to travel by car or bus. How about setting up some sort of community organisation that could kick in when there is an emergency so you don't feel so isolated.
The main roads are
always going to be a priority for clearance first and secondary routes will come later. We have had an extraordinary amount of snow over a couple of days - I know I have been walking to work in it. I would think that had the conditions
contiinued the side roads would have been done, however, I'm guessing in the two days of snow we had the gritters had a difficult job of keeping even the main routes open. - with todays heavy rain has got rid of a lot of snow
now we need the kcc to do there bit with some grit lorries around the side roads allowing the buses to run via clarendon.
the payback team is one avenue, but
the council is the responsible body.
roger, i to thank you for your work
its shame our kcc member is absent
but like jan h says maybe nigel should update by
posting - They have justy gritted our road
- I am in full agreement with Alan. I myself have been going from the
top of Melbourne Ave to Megger at aycliff every day last week on foot most of the time, I have to commend the buses though as most of the time they have been running if only on the main routes.
Its been a tough week but way back i can
remember Nigel was always around perhaps now he feels he is to bigger fish to be bothering with the public who put him in as our member for KCC. - jan
i think the
opposite of our nigel
hes hiding away because he knows hes so unpopular.
the toilet issue was the start of his downfall and things have got worse.
he even has to have othrs from his party cover up for him.
his
time is limited and i thnk he knows it - Keith you maybe right if that is the case then he should be on this Forum putting his case forward and answering the Questions and
Querys from people not letting others do it for him.
After all this Forum has many many veiwers and the total is growing. - Jan;
did you no notice how damaged
he was by auhorising he closure of toilets hen he was moved out of the limelight the tories realising he was damaging the party.
from that point on others ook over his role, and he became the forgotten man.
he has been
encouraged to post on here to give his side, but sadly i has been declined.
this will affect him badly at any future election - maybe nigel is unaware that this page
alone has been viewed by nearly 3 quarters of a million so far. - I had an interesting expedition last night, I took the bus to Canterbury and it got stuck at a bus
stop next to a grit box in Temple Ewell/River, I was the only passenger on the bus so the driver and I had to dig the bus out with our 'bare and very cold hands'. Why the bus company does not supply each rural bus with a snow shovel in
this weather is beyond me.
The grit box was empty except for a few handfuls of salt and there were plenty of people watching us from behind the protection of their curtains for forty minutes but they never offered any help. It
took a passing motorist to pull over who had a snow shovel with him to get us out. Interesting evening. - I got in touch with Kent Highways last monday, they assured me
they would be around on Tuesday, but I did not see anything of them, also we have asked for extra grit bins up at Maxton, Farthingloe road area, but have been told we cannot apply for extra grit bins until after March, and then KCC work
out whether or not that area will qualify for a bin - sheila
i knew you would be on the case
well done
isn it silly a real need for grit bins on such a hilly
area and have o wait till march and hope
never mind maybe our couny cllr will re appear before march- and represent the area - Thank you Mandy, we will look into that
and see what we can do for each other. - How do we go about getting a Grit Box we used to have one but when one for our residents had a brick wall built in front of her
house the Box was Taken Away and never put back who would I contact in Council. - sheila
excellent point about maxton, mount road is a complete write off for
vehicle movements.
can you contact alan taylor and advise him how he goes about getting one please? - shiela/howard
nice to see our cllrs working for the
ward - clearly the residents had not realised who you were barry, if they had you would have been carried on a sedan chair right through to your chosen destination.
- As I commented on another thread "Emergency..." where my son is in Canada it is compulsory by local by-law that everyone clears the snow from the pavement in front of
their house and spreads the grit around. (and yes I realise we have not all got salt bins) Everyone helps out the people who unable to do it. The local council can then concentrate on clearing all the roads in a priority order. It
takes time to clear them all and they are better prepared as they have snow constantly for at least 4 months of the year.
Maybe we should think of doing this, we cleared our paths around here so getting up and down the hill was
easier. - Questions for those in the know. Who is responsible for the issues of snow clearance, grit bins etc at DTC, DDC and KCC levels for Dover town? Does the DTC and
DDC have a plan for these unusual weather circumstances? Lots of obvious problems so who amongst the Councillors visiting this site is going to take up the challenge of this pages
issues? - graham
the short answer is k.c.c.
just to complicate matters they have been devolving grit to certain localities.
i do not know which ones,
d.t.c. are not involved at all.
pauline
i do not dare clear the pavement outside of my house, i would get sued by someone that slipped after i had done so. - Thanks Howard. But who will champion this amongst our councillors? They have the communication route to get things done!
- Graham J, I suggest that you check the
Dover Joint Transportation Board Membership this will give you the names of all the Councillors involved in the decision making. - Can I ask Vic Matcham exactly
what the UKIP plan is to stop the privatisation of Dover Port and how they intend to deliver it. I don't agree with the privatisation but I would like to know how stopping it can de achieved. My previous posts show I'm not a fan of the
DHB. If it comes to a choice the Peoples Port are the only ones that have a plan to keep the Port UK owned and are actioning it. Comments about funding from outside the UK for the proposal are irrelevant. Most of the big investors in UK
companies come from abroad. The companies are still British. - Thanks Stewart. Didn't know this existed. Had a quick look and the DTC rep is Mr G. Cowan. So all those with
constructive concerns and comments, he's your man to contact. I emphasise "constructive". - more importantly gordon is standing for county in less than 2 weeks time, would
be good to have someone voluble for dover there.
if not maybe our vic. - Would it not be an idea to get people from DTC. DDC. and KCC. to set up a new team to
sit only when we have bad weather like this and to take charge of Kent sorting out Girting Travel and Volunteers to help clear the streets or get the payback team into action,I am sure there are local people who could do this at a local
level as well at lest we would not have this town at a stand still.We can Lead the way with this lets at lest think about it and I'm sure with all you clever people out there we may never have to be worried about the snow again. Or
Maybe wishful thinking. - would it be possable to get the detainees of the detenion center to help clear snow/ice,or is that asking to much,pc and all
that. - There is a JTB meeting at the District Council Chamber on 20th. of December.
I'm sure the recent problems with the snow clearance (or lack of) will be brought
up and perhaps discussions could be had between DTC, DDC and KCC when these situations arise in the future.
Don't forget though, that there are 12 local authorities in Kent and so thats 12 meetings with District Councils and
heaven knows how many Town Councils there are, so it may not lack of desire to hold these meetings, but lack of practicalities.
District Councillors are the conduit for local people to contact their District and County Councils on
most if not all of these types of problems; they could be resolved by talking to your District Councillor.
Just as an aside, because Nigel doesn't post on here, doesn't mean to say he is not working for Dover as hard as any
one can - he is.
He made the decision not to post any more, no one told him not to; he does spend most of his time at County and District offices shouting on our behalf.
Punching above our weight I believe it's
called.
Roger - roger,still it would be nice if nigel gave out some info now and again as aposed to being
silent. - Yes Roger he may be doing like you say, but how do we know, the overall response from the posters and the voters is that they would like to be communicated with. They
have a right to know whats going on. Not communicating is the worst sin.
You often hear this repeated over and over again on TV...people abandoned on railway stations and airports ask first for... communication!!
I wrote
yesterday to Nigel asking him to comment. - Brian the detainees at the Removal Centre are detained pending their deportation , if they were let out in a work
party I doubt they would all return. The young unemployed however is another matter surely they could be utilised at exceptional times. - Roger
you do amuse me at times,
yorself and many others including mr collor made big political points on here on labour persons not posting, although as you were aware then and are now there was no truth in your posts, we saw nigel as i said dissappear off the
map.
he has been in fiasco after fiasco, then moved ot of the limelight.
he qickly stopped posting which im sure posters are finding amazing after his and the local tory parties attack on others for not posting.
simple
solution to this woud be to post again so we all know hes still representing us
having a level playing field helps, no problem being critical of labour not posting, but the same has to apply to our
nigel - Im sorry that Nigel does not post .Roger has done a good job in defending him however all councillors have a duty to listen to their community .Its no good only being
there for the photo calls and glory you have to stick in there through the good and bad times ,I should know Big Screen for one .
Cllr Cope ,Cllr Collor ,Cllr Bond ,Cllr Walkeden and myself we are all on JTB .
Bring back The
Public transport liasion committee aye Keith .
- Sue
I agree on the liaison committee, was a committee where all three parties worked closely together, sadly done away
with by nigel.
Your correct sue on nigel and im pleased your honest enough not to defend his non action.
this is doing him no good at all, fair play to roger but that wont be enough to save
him - Reading the posts here I gather that my KCC councillor has been upset by this forum so has gone into a sulk and not posting here anymore. How childish can you
get.
He does not deserve to have such a responsible position if he is going to act so silly. Does he also ignore his fellow councillors in the same way when he disagrees with them, which must happen now and then.
- I cannot understand Nigel. Paul Watkins comes on here gives answers and updates us .Roger posts so it is not a Conservative policy not to post .
- sue,exactly i havent seen a post from nigel fopr quite a while now.
- SUE;
As i said, nigel was one very critical of labour
persons not posting althogfh i continued.
if nigel has alternative views lets hear them
at the moment hes ot there somewhere no one seen him
except in drinking establishments lol
We can only draw conclusions from
this that nigel has decided that he is bigger than the forum
A big mistake. - I do not believe that Nigel thinks he is bigger than the forum, more likely he is fed
up with the silly political point scoring and bickering that can go on here.
That does not excuse the fact that he has ignored questions here. This site is one of the best ways to reach a large number of people with the answers to
questions about KCC and the recent weather that have been asked. - Well said Jan, this is one of the reasons I had doubts about joining the DoverForum (convinced to do so by
Howard Sweeney). If the guilty councillors and their party supporters spent less time snipping and point scoring they might have the time to come up with some good positive plans for ways forward. I don't care which party people belong
to, at Town level in particular, I'd just like some positive action from them. - The treatment of local reisdents like Alan Taylor's plight above which has been brought to
us by the voice of Doverforum is despicable. It seems that the Aycliffe/Ropewalk community has been cut off without any thought to the suffering of the residents where the elderly are in the majority, who were only saved by a passing
tractor driver. - we know about aycliffe because of alans's impassioned post.
how many more places in the dover area suffered similarly that we have not heard
about? - Nigel has been doing his job as a councillor .
Because he does not post on here, which despite its reach [with respect to our voluntary moderators
is still a minority medium to the local public] does not mean his is not functioning.
I know of vulnerable elderly people who he has personally been supporting during this bad weather spell.
He has been out amongst the
community.
He can't personally cover All of Dover.
How many of you have rung him, emailed, texted and asked for his support?
Others have.
He is not your only Cllr.
Both Roger and I have posted the
KCC/rail info at regular intervals when it reached us. You have not missed out.Actually probably better informed than most.
Remember his other colleague died recently hence the by-election.
The personal character
assassination being carried out by Keith and others is quite opportunistic but I am unsurprised and would expect nothing less.
Virtually all transport and emergency plannning is carried out by KCC NOT DDC or DTC.
Frankly
if KCC had spent their time dealing with local issues and had not kept the major transport network moving you would have empty shops , no movement of emergency vehicles to accidentcentres/hospitals etc.
That might not help more
local situations but you need to get priorities right.
I personally think community responsibility has been removed from our DNA.
Are there not able bodied people in Aycliffe, Priory etc. AND any other community not fit
enough to get out there and start moving snow or supporting the vulnerable? I am sure there are and are probably getting on with it unprompted.
My communities at Ripple, Martin, Langdon, St Margarets and Guston are far more
isolated than many posters on this Forum and get on with it.
I guarantee you could set up local committees[please do, not just cllrs.] to set priorities and the same set of comments will be levelled.
I'll await the
personal abuse.
- i can only speak for priory paul, the first day i could not get out of the house in
order to find if anyone needed help, my immediate neighbours are all fit and healthy anyway.
the second day i cleared my path and made my way down to the folkestone road, fell twice on the way down and gave up.
if i had carried
on and got injured it would have put more unneccesary pressure on the health service.
the rural areas you refer would expect to have problems, they would know that when they decided to live there.
no excuse for densely
populated urban areas. - Paul, this forum might be "a minority medium" but it is a far reaching one hence the fuss about the wrong picture being used by DTC
making the main news on TV etc.
Nobody as far as I know has said Nigel Collor has not been doing his job and if he had posted here he could have proved it so easily. As you say "Virtually all transport and emergency plannning is
carried out by KCC NOT DDC or DTC." this was why answers were asked for concerning KCC.
Having lived in a small isolated village without a shop anyone who is not prepared for being cut off is just plain daft, you expect it.
Perhaps this is why I have not had a problem apart from being housebound even though Frith Road is only a few hundred yards away. Those who live in the centre of a town do NOT expect to be the isolated ones.
Finally a thank you
and all the others who have kept us informed, it is just a shame that my local KCC councillor did not because of what appears (to this non political old lady) to be the sulks with certain forum members.
- Quite right Howard.
What you have described were probably exceptional weather circumstances.
Not enough resources.
Agreed.
Will it happen
again.
Probably.
How much money should be spent on it and where does it fall prioritywise in the level of services ?
This week probably high, mid March forgotten and be bottom of people's lists.
When we
debrief this episode, which we will with KCC in the near future. I will download these comments as local feedback.
By the way my car did not leave the drive for four days.
- Thank you Paul W. Yours is the first positive proposal for action that has come to the forum on the issue of the bad weather. A councillor who identified what he can do to help for the
future and has given a proposal that can be checked on for delivery. 10 out of 10. All those picking on Nigel (don't know the chap myself) stand in the corner with your dunce caps on. Act like children and you'll be treated like
them. - sounds guys and girls that your views dont matter
(your a minority medium) according to mr watkins.
now lets get back to reality,
our nigel and a
number of conservative posters rightly slagged off the labour party members who didnt post.
but here we a few years down the line and our KCC cllr is doing the very thing he slagged the labour posters off for not doing(p;osting)
what would have solved all this wold have been a post
not from nigels mates
but from nigel himself telling us the latest.
but rightly people wont forget
but please remember paul watkins words
you posters
are only a minority medium
Im sure many posters will find that insulting
- Typical Keith , either does not understand or cares to distort [probably both in
my experience]. Minority medium does not relate to people who post here but the reality of how many Dover residents read the Forum.
Yes, it may warrant a scoop story source to news journalists to get copy but it is the coverage by
them that gets mass media exposure.
In the meantime people will see the personal vendetta Keith is waging here. One defunct former County Councillor attacking the present one in the middle of his mates by-election campaign.
I'll leave him to repetitively rant on.
I 've made my statement. Ends here. - Paul W. Please ignore the message sent from Keith's
alternate reality. You have volunteered a measurable deliverable by taking the concerns of this post (yes you in the minority medium) to the debrief with the KCC. Thats what the people on this post want.
Lets leave Keith in his "he
said she said" world where nothing ever gets done but people can always throw stones.
Personally I don't care which party you belong to, I want you to do the job of a councillor not a petty
politician. - I so agree with the comments about politics - wish we didnt have to have them.
I see postings from the leader of the tory,ukip,alliance,even the liberals
on occasion - but somehow I dont see any postings from the labour party leader or even their County Councillor when he was in post.......
Its a free world so i dont think non posting is necessarily negative - it is also not
logical to assume that nothing is being done by Councillors. Maybe they are too busy doing it. Maybe they dont want the abuse because the system doent get results - graham j
have no idea who you are
maybe as a newcomer i should explain a little further
not sure how long you have been looking in on the forum
let me know as the full story better than mr watkins trying to
make political points.
lets not forget im not alone in my comments leading tory vice chair has also said exactly the same.
thankfully im no longer a councillor and dont have to put up with mr watkins double
standards - graham
i have to disagree with your assessment of the situation, paul the fuhrer has indicated(quite rightly in my opinion) that by the time the matter is
discussed the weather will be nicer and other issues will take precedence.
we were told last winter that such a repeat would not occur as lessons had been learned.
the attacks on councillor nigel collor are because he is
our only representative and people feel let down, a look at the post from alan taylor will confirm that.
the front page this morning made great play about the importance of communicating with the public, this has not been
done. - thankyiou howard
- Just to let everyone know and particularly Alan Taylor...
I have now
heard from Nigel and I will reproduce it here as Im sure he will be okay with that......the email actually reached me at approx 11am today but alas yours truly was out and about, but here we are now....
"
Good morning
Paul,
Many thanks for bringing Alan's situation to my attention and firstly I must apologise to Alan for the situation he found himself in.
I am very annoyed at the comments that Alan quotes from officers at both
KCC and DDC especially as he was willing to help out himself and have already Emailed both the Managing Director at Kent Highway Services and the Director responsible at DDC for the community asking for their initial comments.
If Alan would like to send me full details at
nigel.collor@kent.gov.uk
I will willingly take the issue further.
Regretfully I am not able to comment more publically before 16th December due to the laws surrounding
elections but, work must go on and, as I say, if Alan would like to contact me direct I will take it forward.
Regards
Nigel
Nigel Collor
Member for Dover
Town
" - Keith, not interested in the history Paul W has agreed he will take the concerns raised on this post to the appropriate KCC meeting. Thats all I'm
interested in and thats what I'll measure him by.
I have only been looking at the posts for a few months and was encouraged to join by Howard McSweeney. My concern was that political sniping would swamp the nuggets of positive
progress that could come from this forum. Pauls volunteering to deliver something that eveyone on the post can judge him by is such a nugget. - graham j
I will leave the
history then, but you do have to be even minded on the forum.
Like you i dont give a ship about who does what and i have been as critical of the labour party as i have the lib dems and alliance.
like howard and leading
local conservative sue nicholas have stated, they dont understand why there KCC member does not post.
Im sure as buddies the views will be taken back to nigel
but how long do posters have to put up with an invisable
person
Further i to congratulate paul watkins and others for doing nigels job for him on here.
paulsw report have been welcomed by all
and im sure views expressed on here regarding the KCC will also be taken
to them.
nice comment davidh
but incorrect i did post even when on the county council
paulb;
nice that nigel will be posting after dec 16th we can wait now till that date glad hes changed his mind, look
forward to his comments on dec 17th
i will leave sue to comment further if shes allowed lol
- Howard, thanks as I said to you previously I have only
recently returned to Dover, because of that the history passes me by. I can only judge on what I see on here. Someones said they will do an action. There is a lot of winter left to go and the measure will be did the same problems re-
occur. If they happened last year were they at the same locations.
I'm not sure what being conservative or labour has to do with people being snowed in, I'm sure the snow didn't choose to lay on one particular party's members. If
specific peole are at fault its the peole. To be honest this party political broadcasting, because an election is coming up, over something where everyone should be pulling together is beyond
me. - graham
althogh iv never hidden im a lefty labour man
this thread was about our kcc member who could have belonged to any party.
like howard/sue said
it
would have been nice for our kcc member to have come forward with his ideas/views/what he was doing
then all this thread would not have taken place
i commend all politicians for putting themselves up for election(whatever
party)
having done it for 25 years i know how time consuming it can be, and little thanks
often iv been on here praising tory/labour/lib dem/alliance
anyone when praise is due.
but no one should be beyond being able
to be able to be critical of them whether there mates or not
- Thank you PaulB for posting Nigel's reply it explains everything to my satisfaction.
Keith, why
must you always try and point score, enough has been said on this subject which from now on should be dropped in my opinion. - jan h
please see my latest
comments - Keith,
I have no problem with people being politicians. I have met and worked with a few in my previous life in London. But thats not what I'm on about. If
someone doesn't deliver it's the person not his politics.
For whatever reason Nigel (don't know the chap) did not, could not or would not comment earlier (he has now done so). If I knew the reason then I might have cause to
criticise him, but I don't.
I'm passionate about Dover but constant references to political parties and historical grievances in posts on this forum just leaves me cold. - i think from now on i will remind others when they are critical
- graham
i have noted your comments
and as a dovorian im devoted to seeing a better
dover.
that said please read all my posts
im critical of all when the need arises
and like iv said below i heap praise when that is due also
- PaulB Thank you so very much for all you have done to bring this to everyones attention, To Shelia thank you for the phone call it was a great help.I will contact Mr Collor with details as to the Lady on KCC switchboard,I am
sure she was snowed under with complaints and I suppose when I came on it was all she needed to snap at me, but a little understanding would have helped. Thanks to all other Doverforum Members who gave good advice and there help were
they could. I wish we had councils that acted like people on this web-site have then this Kent would be a better place. THANK YOU ALL. - well said alan, the politicos may
pontificate but it is about ordinary people in the end.
your original post certainly touched a chord with us all. - Thank you Howard, its nice to know you
can talk to so many nice people on this site, I know I am guilty of letting my mouth runaway with me some times but thats only because I feel so passionate about some things about this town,I only went to a high school and was not
trained in debating and can not put things in a way I should our would like to ,But all anyone wants is for others to listen who are there to serve and we do know that they cant always get it right and that they are so busy, but some
times People feel as though they don't matter every one should matter even the Politicians. - Having 'lurked' on the forum for a while i must say that Alan Taylor
is right. Loads of helpful people on the sight and People should matter, and not just at Elections! - I couldn't agree more Rupert and well said Alan.
Being a
Councillor is an all-year round job, not just a month before an election.
Please bear in mind though, that there are many more Councillors who do not post on here who work hard all year round, so, although this is an important
medium for discussion, it's not the "Be all and end all".
No more twisted comments from Keith please.
Roger - i don't doubt what you say roger, but
sometimes it is best to let people know what they are doing, especially over contentious issues.
it stops the chinese whispers from gathering pace. - You are
right Howard .A short post would have nipped it in the bud .There was no electioneering .I know the difference .This was the time where you show your comunication skills . - Or
in this case Sue, it has shown the lack of comunication skills.
Roger this discussion has been about KCC Councillors, not District or Town who have been very informative in keeping us up to date, so a big thankyou to them. - Alan for the record I went to a secondary modern called Archers Ct. and they did not train me in debating nor has anyone else.
I learnt my debating skills [if you can call
them that] "on the hoof"
and via the "university of life".
- Newly Discovered Picture`s of Dover Packet Yard 1946
Colin Pritchard
post on the members forum.
The structure is one of a pair of dock gates from the now defunct train ferry dock in the western docks. Each gate was removed for refurbishment on a 6 yearly cycle (making it a gate out every 3 years) I was
the last BR Engineer responsible for the refurbishment works, which stopped in the early 80's. Before the dock was taken out of comission. Hope this helps. - Many thanks for
that additional information Graham, and it`s good to know there`s other`s out there looking in with the knowledge. I`m just about to pop a couple more picture`s of the workforce on. - I don't disagree with your comment Howard, but suffice to say that when Gordon was KCC member, did he post on here ? Did he let people know what was happening every time a snow-flake fell ?
I didn't think so.
I don't want to grumble about people, whether Labour Conservative or another party; it's the arguments on their leaflets (and how honest they are) that matter at election time and how hard they have worked for Dover or their
ward - or intend to if they are not already a Councillor.
Roger - Roger since those days of Gordon at KCC, Doverforum has advanced considerably and now has
considerably more viewing firgures. Our viewing figures are no secret and are visible there for all to see. I think politicians of all hue need to take that onboard, embrace the modern era, and communicate with these
viewers/readers.
These are not just the members. We just have a mere 85 or so members ( purposely limited) but 727,982 views on this frontpage as I write, a page which is roughly 2 years old and more than 2,500,000 in the Forum.
The Forum is an older section but is still relatively newly built version of the Forum.
I think politicians really need to communicate more with these readers.
One problem that has emerged for me this end is that many
viewers viewing this frontpage DONT seem to know that we have a Forum with loads of news and chatter! We may have to make it more visible somehow. - good news to
start the day, the building is fully deserving of any award for design.
not to everybody's taste, but i liked it from day one, usually new buildings take a while to grow on people. - Im so glad that at last we have the building .It took a long time but now we have it .Good for all those who enjoy water sports
- Yes the picture above was taken on a very grey cold day in gloomy conditions..so perhaps not showing the building at its best, but it looks very well on a nice bright sunny day. As
Howard says it wasnt to everyones taste initially but I myself always liked it.
One concern that was expressed was its beach location. In these days of global warming, and of course higher tides as a result of global warming,
would the building get flooded out. The answer would appear to be no, as so far not a trace of water has entered. However I suppose even if it did, its probably equiped to deal with it in the
design. - In quite willing t accept that cllrs frm all parties choose not to post for whatever reason
what im saying is nigel collor and other leading
tories came on this very forum as regular posters stating labour had been gagged(totally untrue, but hey, why let the truth get in the way)
no sooner had mr collor got elected to kcc then he stopped posting
that stinks of
double standards - Paul B, I noticed immediately that the Forum link has changed much better.
People had told me that they thought the forum was unviewable for the
public and was for members only. I have lost count of the number of times I have said to someone 'you can read it quite easily', they might believe me now. LOL - Thanks Jan
for that feedback there. Yes have been finding out much to my shock that the general public dont seem to know of our thriving Forum section, or some of them dont seem to know anyway.
This frontpage attracts a great general
readership as we can see, but many it appears never proceed further to see the Forum. Pity because its so successful a debating and news chamber.
Had a word today with my techie guru Chris Tutthill and we may do something else in
time to highlight it more..still thinking it through. But we made those small changes for now in an effort to improve visability. - Our leader at KCC on last
nights TV show inside out saying that we should all change our tyres in bad weather for snow tyres his he going to change all the gritter lorries and bin lorries tyres so thay can get out and do the jobs. I don't think so he is so smug
some one should slap him with a wet kipper. - valid point alan, i do not remember mr carter mentioning the issue before the freeze or last year either.
roger
raised the subject of snow tyres on one of the forum threads. - Councils are between a rock and a hard place - we could agree to a massive council tax rise to buy
snow equipment and then moan at them for not using it when we don't get that type of weather for another 10 year.....
- not a good response, councils were
given all the extra help required after last year.
the question has to be asked "why was the response worse than last year"?
there was a lot of advance advice from the met office. - The problem with clearing snow along side roads using a vehicle with a shovel attached to it, is that there are usually cars parked at the roadside, making it pratically
impossible. The only way to clear snow and/or ice from the pavements is by sending in people with shovels.
These would require a salary for each hour's work, but the money usually is used to bail...oh never mind!
Anyway, that's
the long and the short of it! - Quite right...but you also have to consider being sued by someone who breaks an ankle on a footway surface which you have interferred with.
I realise it must be a heaven sent excuse-but local authorities and high st businesses alike are best advised to let well alone! - I know
I've said it lots of times, but the Community Pay-Back teams should be used to clear snow from pavements and Town Centres.
It will be hard work, but it's supposed to be a punishment (for a crime) that allowed them not to go to
prison.
I do think that more people should be responsible for clearing the snow outside their own homes and real clarification on being sued or not, should be made by the Government to give guidance to people.
We have all
become too dependant on the State.
Roger - I was reading in one of my Council papers that you are now allowed to clear your pavements with out the fear of being
sued .It makes me cross when the roads are cleared e.g,in the Towns or main routes and the snow is piled up against the footways .You have to climb over mounds of ice packed snow . - I could not agree more Sue, where there is a designated road crossing it is even more annoying as well as being dangerous.
- With regards to Sue's post 07.11
today
Are you sure you have that right? You are not allowed to clear your pavement without the fear of being sued? I cannot imagine that it says anywhere that you are forbidden to clear the pavement. Of course somone might
threaten to sue you if they slip on the pavement, that is the age we live in now, but I would have thought it unlikely that many people would decide to sue a member of the public for clearing snow from the pavement. Has anybody ever
heard or read of a case where this has happened?
Can I sue the council if I slip crossing the road after they have cleared it?
- Well all I can say about
the new Hos/I told you so many times this was going to happen,Thats why i am amember of the East Kent NHS Trust,and why I go to any meeting that come my way. And I talk to the Chairman Etc. I know that alot of you think I talk out of the
top my head,but I do not ,all I say is what I find out. - Why did you not answer my question then when I asked for you to explain the UKIP/your plan for Dover Harbour if
you know so much? Don't repeat the stock answer of a referendum. Thats for local people on local issues, the Port is a National issue. Facts would be niice not gossip! - Excellent news above about the hospital its been long over due shame no expanding of the maternity section tho still high risk mums to be have to travel miles away.
- Yes I am glad the hospital situation has been sorted at long last, not ideal but better than nothing I suppose.
- Mr Graham I will carry on where I left off, but at
this very time i do have alot on, when I can sit down for more than one hour I will do it. I know I must do it and I will. Again thank you for your post,At this time just stoped for a cupper then off out again. - So we are having just what we have got now but in a new building with a few extras, when will people wake up in this town we are one of the busiest ports on the south east
coast, god forbid there should be another major shipping acc in the Channel.
With all the new homes to be built in the area and all the acc on the A20 we should be getting a full A&E Dept not a minor one we all ready have a minor
injuries unit staffed by nurse consultants.
No disrespect to the nurses they are not qualified to give a diagnosis which means you will still have to go to major hospital to been seen by a consultant I was a nurse for 28 years and
believe me they are pulling the wool over your eyes all you are getting is a CLINIC, including mobile MRI and CT services.
Mobile means a lorry parked some were in the grounds and then we will have all the Politicians and
Councilors saying LOOK what we got for this Town. Where is the heart unit where is the children's wards or birthing unit where are the doctors a new Hospital should mean new staff more jobs for local people not move people from Ashford
or Deal.Remember Its A CLINIC.
So which Politician is going to take this on board and put it to the EKHA. - Mr Matcham, Thanks for a response but all I would like
is the specifics of the UKIP plan for Dover Port if there is no privatisation. No analysis of options just the UKIP plan showing what Dover Town will get from UKIP's proposal.
I was hoping that, having talked about it in the press
for over 6months, it could simply be a cut and paste from UKIP's own documents. Surely there is at least a synopsis of UKIP's deliverables for this. As i said 3 or 4 days ago - if you don't have a plan please tell me. It would save
time for us both. It's your vote pledge on your leaflets after all! - alan
the childrens and maternity units are included in the plan.
i doubt whether there
will be any large scale new house builds in the foreseeable future.
with regard to a major shipping accident the emergency services have said that they are quite happy with the present arrangements. - Mr Taylor.Please read my post about this on the members page,it will tell you more,and what part I am playing,Thank you.
- emergency services have said that they are quite happy with the present arrangements. they might be Howard but when we do have an emergency you will see an out cry it always
happens Its still a CLINIC.And in Charlie's news letter today it says Charlie's key priority was getting a Proper Hospital for Dover and a polyclinic is not good enough and that is just what we have Got. in the present hospital we have
outpatients X-ray Minor Acc Clinic Blood Lab why not use the building there and upgrade the services and put in the new ones there are wards empty upstairs these a canteen that can be opened again for nurse and public the operating
theaters are still there there is a full Hospital just waiting to be upgraded and would cost less than building a new One. - Thank you Vic will do
- In your Post Vic you say the only beds in the new hospital will be the baby wing But Other new developments include minor surgery in a dedicated procedure suite, all require
beds if your having surgery Vic. Therapy services,and a day hospital, Kent County Council and Social Services will be invited to commission respite care beds alongside the proposed GP run operation. All this can be achieved in the old
Hospital with out building a new one. - Alan, I think your being too realistic. This bitter pill is wrapped up nicely with "your getting a New Community Hospital and
building". However, according to Mr Matchams earlier posts (partic on members forum 23 Nov) this has always been a done deal and any public consultation must have been a sham. Once again the people of Dover don't get what they want or
deserve because it's been decided well in advance. A previous post (I think by Howard McSweeney) questioned about a dialysis unit for Dover. In fact 2-3 years ago Dover had a dialysis unit that was newer better laid out etc than those
in Ashford or Canterbury (quote from a user at the time) I'm pretty sure it's closed now. How long before all the promises being published now are whittled done to a new reception only. Convenient that whilst this was apparently
decided some while ago it's announced just before an election!! Who can claim this is a victory? - Mr Taylor,sorry but that is not true,most of the old Hospital is going I
have seen all the plans ETC some of it is going for homes. I have just got back in and need a cupper,again will post later on Thank you. - Just to tell you I am going off
line for a few hours later, I am going over to a new broadband and my mate is going to fix it up for me.this one is to slow now,I am going over to Plus.net. - Excellent
that after the present government we can expext the few extra. Well done to Vic and others who have been following this. - Vic you said in your post that buildings at the back
of the Hospital were going to be for new homes now your saying that some if not all of the old hospital is going to be new homes, Howard you say i doubt whether there will be any large scale new house builds in the foreseeable future.
well it looks like there is all the land is going at the present hospital is for new build so the NHS can sell off the old one and with the money raised to build a new CLINIC. it is not a new Hospital. come on Mr Matcham if you have all
this info please tell us How this is a new Hospital. - Vic I have put your members club post here.....
"
You might know this you might not,I have just got back in
from a meeting with the NHS.I was told by the staff manning the above stand That the Building of the new Hospital will start in the late summer of next year and will open in the year 2013.It is going down to the lower site (CAR PARK NOW)
THERE will be a new car park.
This part you might not know,but I did tell you all over two years ago now,The old part of the Hospital at the top has been sold off already for Housing,and the funds made from that sell have gone
into getting the new Hospital,the only beds in the new hospital will be the baby wing, this will a total new wing on the ground floor.I have now seen the new drawing and plans of the Hospital,This is the best Dover is going to get, so
please make the most of it by helping out when it is there. Thank You.
"
So thats it Vic the Best Dover is going to get and who do we have to thank for that, well lets just hope that some people will oppose the planing
App. - Hi Alan
have edited your post below a wee bit, just to make it a bit clearer. We werent sure initially if you had reproduced Vics post but then we realised
you had, so have now made it clear for readers to grasp. - alan
ii is this new facility or nothing, any more wrangling could see us lose this.
most
of the people in dover district will benefit from all these facilities on their doorstep.
in fact many of us on the forum would benefit too.
- So
Howard what you saying is shut up and go away,of cause many people will benefit maybe me two But I was lead to believe we were getting a General Hospital, So really what your saying is except what your given and put up with it are you by
any chance a politician because they seem to be saying the same to the people of this country. The Best Dover Is Going To Get. That should be U kips new slogan. - that
is what i am saying alan, work would have started on the buckland site by now if the arguing over the site had not taken place.
i have no idea who told you to expect a general hospital, i have never heard that suggested by anyone.
the demographics do not allow it anyway.
the phrase "proper hospital" has been bandied about, people can interpret that how they want. someone suggested it meant "doctor led" services, which the proposed buckland site will
have.
- You were never going to get a New Proper Hospital.G.P's were asked what they wanted and where,then the Health Authority said that the East Kent
Area has the population for 1 and a half Hospitals,we have 2 Major Hospitals in East Kent.William Harvey and QEQM at Margate.
The only option is if they shut one of those and that isn't going to happen.We have always said that we
wanted the new Hospital in the Town,and after the mid-town was rejected as a flood plain area we have alwways pushed for Buckland.
In an ideal world yes we would want a Full Hospital but as I have said this will not happen,so we need
to make the best use of the site and the £20 million and push for extra services not argue put it at Whitfield before the money is lost and with it the Hospital. - first
class post john, you have summed up the seriousness of the situation, if objections start to come in at the planning stage we will end up with nothing.
regretfully this might happen. - Mr Goodwin you are weeks behind it is me who goes to all the meetings I see done of you there,because they are members meetings, THE HOSPITAL IS GOING AT BUCKLAND NOT
WHITFIELD OR ANY OTHER SIDE DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR NOW,MOVEON. NOW PLEASE. - vic
you are guilty again of not reading posts correctly, john is factually accurate as
far as i can see. - No need to shout its not an exclusive club .Some of my friends attend those meetings and we have a Cabinet Member who attends meetings on health
issuies
John does have a fulltime job and he is a busy ward councillor .
Some people donot attend every meeting thats going . - There is no need to be rude Mr
Matcham, John made a very good simple factual and clear post. Much better than some of the ramblings we can get on this site. - I am going to move away now from the Hospital,
and get back to the local By-Election on the 16th of dec. This is the time that you can show the leader of the D.D.C that you are not happy with the way they are handing things. I t is the time to get rid of the old schooltie network
they have ,there are some that have been there tolong and need to be replaced,we only have to look at the messup they made of the town toilets,and now we see that our very own football ground could go.+ Look at our port and what they are
saying about it,We have had now two General ELections and still have the sameold faces there,lets look at their record over the sell of our great port,at the first Election,they told us all that the port should be sold off at that time
even the D,H,B, was all for keeping the port.
What Was I saying at that time"Well it was that the port should not be sold off. And the reds were also saying"That the port should not be sold off.Well four years on from that we
had the last Election, and what happen before voting day, WE had a turnround by them all.
This time we had the blues saying"O no we must not sell the port this was backed up by the D.D.C. And also we had the Reds saying we must sell
the port this.
And again what was me and UKIP saying "It was the same as last time "WE are saying do not sell the port off"We are the only once that are sticking to what we said some 9years ago, again I am saying on my leaflets
going round now on that if you have not already got one is"NO.TO ANY DOVER PORT PRIVATISATION IN ANY FORMAT,. Do not get taken in with Mr Elphicke News letter also going round at this time saying he can turn it into a peoples port this
will never happen it would be a sell off just like the D,H,B,plan but just coved up better. He goes on to say about geting a mortgage to help pay for it, If you have ever had a mortgage yourself,lets just say for about £20.000 you know
how much and how long that takes to pay back,Now lets look at the one for the port he will need a mortgageof over £200million now how long will that take to pay back, before any of you see a return of any money you put into it,well it
will not be in your life time will it.On top of that the port could and should have a price of over £1 billion to buy,and even on top over all that he goes on to say £50million ex is build in for regeneration money to improve Dover,and
yet again on top of all what I heve wrote he goes on to say there will be yet another £50 million for infrastructure development.Well can all that be true. Well No to that. The port is only making £50million a year after all the running
costs are taken out. And on top of all that the trade on the lorrys going in and out of the port is on the down hill side and as I said weeks a go it is than that we could see the port go backrupt,and I told that could not happen,just
look around you and read the press it is happing to alot more and bigger then the port of Dover. I will reat there for now. - I am not rude to anyone just giving you
facts - Jan H, If we are rambling about things we feel passion about then its time to go and leave the forum to the kings and queens that seem to run Dover. BY
- actually vic you were very rude to john, that will not help your chances of being elected.
- Charlie's note also got to my house. At last he makes a little clearer what the project is about, so it is easier to comment on now than in the past, for all the people in Dover who either receive it or come to know about it
through other channels. It is still unclear even then.
It seems that banks would pay out 400 million pounds, of which half - 200 million - would go to the Treasury. So if 50 million would be for town regeneration, and 50 million for
port works (no mention of T2, which would require hundreds of millions), apart from the other 100 million unaccounted for in Charlie's note, the actual mortgage would be 400 million pounds and not 200 million. A real grand-slam of a
debit burden to impose on our limited Port of Dover!
Now Charlie lets the cat out of the sack in his letter and states that the ferry-companies are the major suppliers of revenue to DHB, but implies that the same car-ferry operators
would be depended upon to repay the mortgage of 200 million pounds (in reality 400 million though). In fact there is no-one else who could repay the mortgage, it could only be the car-ferry operators.
But how they would manage to
repay such a mortgage - and one would assume the banks asking for interest too and placing exact expiery dates for each instalment - is surreal and utter science-fiction.
Sealink only recently managed to avoid bankruptcy owing to
another massive handout of tens of millions of euros credit from SNCF or possibly some other French creditor, but must repay all its own existing debts in due course, in order to avoid insolvency. The Seafrance debt figure, according to
my last information, is well over 100 million euros, possibly 180 million. The exact figure can be checked by any forumite or reader, but it has been going up continually, reason for which one might lose count. How on Earth will
Seafrance repay its own debits AND a mortgae on Dover Port?
As for P&O, I will only state that anyone reading the Forum can trace P&O's financial situation on internet, so I won't comment further on that one. Howard.
All in all,
if the idea is to have a Port that can guarantee fair-trade for its ferry-operators, then to burden these with a Dover Port mortgage of 200 million pounds (more likely 400 million, as Charlie's plan implies) - for all that it is still
obscure in context and detail - is an unrealistic proposal.
Vic is right, Charlie's plan can not work out, it is unrealistic from a to z.
- I take your point
Howard, If it sounded like that then I am sorry. But how many times have I said where the new Hospital will be,and what it will have in it,again the timetable for the new Hospital is next year we will see it being build and it will open
in 2013.But when you have to keep going over and over the same thing, Well anyway i am sorry. But about geting elected ,I have been going around now for 3days,and it as been very good at times even like a over 65years pop star, i have
had the public coming up to me and talking and telling me to keep going on even calling out to each other that I was there, just great,but it has always been like that over the years ,but that does not show up when the voteing is going
on. But We will still carry on. - Mr Matcham, I have asked several times for the UKIP/your plan for the alternative to privatisation. What you have presented below is
simply a cobbled together piece of scaremongering. Most of which is gross exaggeration or misinformation.
As I said on previous post I am not pro privatisation or peoples port. You, however, have no alternative.
Other major ports
around the country have privatised and flourished, mainly because they removed the serious inefficiencies of trust operating. DHB's own reports show that they are seriously inefficient, DHB published figures by their consultants not
mine.
If UKIP/you have no plan but to maintain the staus quo please have the honesty to say that and not hide behind a promise of a referendum that will never happen. UKIP/your proposals give no benefits to the people of Dover and no
hope, with regard to betterment from the port. Be honest and admit it. - Mr Graham .What I have been saying and UKIP is at this very time the port should stay as it is ,it
is a Royal port and should stay that way, it was put in trust to the public of Dover by Queen MARY, and over the 100s of years there has been development as time has gone on. And that is why the D.H.B. was set up to run and develop the
port, never was it set up for them of others to sell off. After the last world war ,what we did see was the develoment of the port and that was needed because of the build up of Lorrys and cars and the public useing it. And up till now
any Develoment in the port has been done by their own funding,and as you know there has been alot of that over the years from the late 1940s. But what we are seeing now is the trade is tailing off ,evan the D.H.B. have seen this .and now
saying that the New T2 will not be needed.And see also know that at this time that the port can handel all the roll on and off without any big redevelopment,so we are back to what it was five years ago .any developentment can be found
within its own funds. So no need for the sell off.But what does not happen is the Town of Dover gets any funding at all out of the port, or very little. In the current economic recession we will still see less lorrys etc comeing to the
port, and with the new bigger ferrys coming next year we will not need so many of them. So what is UkIP and me saying and what is our plan, well the first thing we do not sell the port off. But there is still away that part of the port
can bring funds to the Town of Dover, and that is by making a much bigger marina ,it is a well know fact that the town does get more return from the small marina we have now, then all the ferrys and ships that use the port.THe public
that use the marina do come into the town and spend their cash ,the others do not, Also by not saleing off the port ,it will stay a british port and not go overseas,it does not matter what all the others are saying any sell of the port
could sooner or later end up with a over seas buyer. Also now that we have found out that there is no need for the T2 we could have part of that site ie- the old Hover port for a big leisure park with the big hotel there and a new one
build it would bring alot of funding into the town.And Public even from France would just jump on a ferry and come to it. But we would need the tolets open .the town can make money from the port. And do we real need all the lorrys coming
into Dover,No we do not we could make the port of Dover into the UK top Leisure port, and it could all kickoff with making the Marina much bigger. If the DHB sell the port off Dover will see a small return of about£5millon, With the MP
plan you can say good by to any return in mine and your life time, But with UKIP and Mine way the return will be very big and the return would be in a few years . Hope that has made it clear for you. And again Thank you for your
post. - I will go even more into it, let the DHB still have the Eastern side of the port that is all they need with less ferrys useing it the other big ships can aso get
in there with a deeper birth. and rest of theport can be turned over for Leisure,as for the members on the D,H,B, if they wish to go then let them go by handing in their notice and not giving them what they want and that is a big payoff
to each of them, that would save the port over£1million in one hit,there are others that can do their jobs and for alot less. - Sorry to say your thinking is muddled and
short term. Traffic patterns through the port did not change for a number of years certainly freight growth did not pick up until the mid to late 70's when trading patterns with europe changed as colonies became much more independent.
So in historical terms the growth is relatively new.
Between 1991-7 seven major ports moved from trust to privatiation in the UK, only one was mandated. All the others did it voluntarily and have been prospering ever since. Dover
Port privatisation is not a government led decision but one led by DHB Directors, mainly for the money they can get from it.
The proposal for terminal 2 have been based on growth out turns forecast by government departments (till
2034) and short term blips like we have at the moment are to be expected. The over all forecast is for growth. The actual proposal for T2 is totally undeliverable and (on DHB's own figures) unnecessary for the growth forecast
(providing the port is managed efficiently and effectively)
DHB's own figures show that the new marina proposals produce peanuts in income spend from people berthing in the port. And this assumes that people want to berth in a marina
with such a high tidal range. Another RED HERRING. Generating cash from the development you propose would also take huge amounts of capital investment without there being a ready market for it. Huge expense slow growth huge risk. The
possibility of getting investors interested in that is negligible.
What the town needs is a bite of the cherry from the xchannel traffic, which impacts on the town the most and is the biggest source of income by far.
You comment on
toilets I will take as an attempt at humour.
The UKIP/your plan (actually from a business perspectve it is not a plan but a concept) is unrealistic and unfinancable, as no investor would touch it.
I can only hope that you do
not heroically attempt to rescue defeat from the jaws of success on this matter as you have done with the hospital.
Where the developers have done well getting a site fully linked to services and utilities for a housing
development at almsot no cost(utilitise not land), the Health Trust has done well getting more money in there coffers and Dover is left with a Community Hospital probably costing less than a high tech veterinary surgery in London. For
which you tell us we should be grateful and if we object you infer we might get nothing.
Developer - wins
Health Trust - wins
Dover - as usual the booby prize, the greater and good telling us to be grateful and eat our gruel.
(A bit of christmas spirit thrown in there and thats only because I've just finished wrapping xmas presents.) - Sorry I missed your 11.47pm post before my previous post. All
I can say is you must be full of the christmas spirit and having a joke with the 11.47pm post.
Next you'll be saying you'll put a landing pad in for santa, stables for the reindeers and get his elves to magic all your proposals into
reality.
Well I don't believe the other posts, you do have a sense of humour. - Gosh guys I recommend the liberal use of paragraphs with open white spaces so that the
content can easily be read by others. Thats the idea isnt it...that they be read by others. - Vic I suggest you read my post again and try to understand whatI am
saying,I told you that this was passed by DDC yes it was months ago,but I was telling people what happened.You started the posts on the Hospital and fine if you don't want to post thats up to you and people will move on when THEY are
ready not you.
We have been friends for a long time,my name is John not Mr Goodwin or if you want to address me formally it is Cllr Goodwin but I only use this when I need something done at the Council.
But as a friend I should
give you a bit of advice.
I.Dont shout at me or anyone else.
2.Your view point or what you have heard or seen at meetings are from your view point,otherthings go on which you are not part of,like Councils which you are not and
probably never will be part of.
3.I also suggest you look at the rules about Purdah,it probably won't be in the dictionary you use as it is 6 words,but I am sure that Harvey Rudd the solicitor at DDC will help you and tell you nearly
all your postings on here break it.
4.I said the Hospital is going to the Buckland site!
5.I suggest that everyone should get on with it and stop arguing about it.
6.I also did it as a non political post because although I am a
member and Cllr of the Labour Party,it was a cross party decision and in these sensitive times(election next week) was fully aware of not making it Political.
7.My suggestion to you is try and read the post,try to understand it and
then think before you shout at everyone.Thank You - Fair point Paul. Suppose we are both just passionate about our points of view.
Looking again it does seem heavy
going for anyone who hasn't already done the level of work on the subject that we have.
Lesson learn't if something this ctitical comes along again. - A very good
post there by John .He is right about Purdah and what can be printed during an election . - does a minor injuries unit count as an emergency service?
nobody knows
yet the full details on A & E, good political scoring point though. - john
i understand on vic but if its election expenses then vic and ukip wont be spending
anywhere near the amount able to be spent.
and whilst vics posts do break it, so do other politicians on here
so lets not pick on one.
- Mr Goodwin,We
are friends ,but when I am posting I like to call each of you by Mr or Mrs or Miss, that is just the way I do things sorry if it up sets you. Right going back to what you posted about the new Hospital,You have Put" Push for extra
services not argue ,put it at Whitfield before the money is lost and with it the Hospital" that is what you put just go back and have alook. As for the word "Purdah" I can not say it let alone know what it means. But I have said
nothing wrong at all,if you or anyone thinks I have then it is up to you to go to the DDC and tell them,Will it stop me, "Well it is a no to that.Thank you. - Purdah
,
Councillors and prospective councillors have to be careful what they discuss .Councillors cannot be photographed or be seen to be promoted by DDC or KCC depends where elections are held .
A few years ago I was going to open a
Housing development but was not allowed to do that or indeed have my photo taken .An Officer had to do it
Its also to do with election expenses . - PaulB you
really are an arch-cynic. Charlie is actually saying much the same as Vic, i.e. This is the best we are going to get (realistically) so let's go with it and lobby for the package to be enhanced later. Charlie also says in today's DE
article that nobody can claim any credit until it is built, opened and up and running. What is wrong with that? Politics is the art of the possible and our MP is not a superhero. - Does anyone know what Charlie Elphicke is upto nowadays, I thought he might at least speak up this week over the rubbish rail services we get in Deal from Southeastern (weather permitting) and still no fast trains.... Every
other Kent MP seems to be sticking up for commuters. Perhaps now that Deal has a higher population than Dover we should get our own MP!! - That's magnificient with the
hospital: if one can't get a Rolls Royce, a Morris Minor 1000 will do! It might even be open for 8 am to 8 pm, that in itself is something! - For the avoidance of doubt my
previous post was about the hospital. When Vic tells us just how we will get development money out of the port while keeping it as a trust port, I shall respond to that. Presumably he has a team of professional advisers crunching the
same numbers we have been. And to repeat what I said the other day on a thread, the port is not and probably never will be a local council election issue. - Graham, your
comments regards the Port are unfair towards Vic.
UKIP does not state that the charter from 1606 of Dover Harbour Board cannot be amended to include a future revenue for the Town and District.
Also, DHB is not inefficient, and it
is generally known that a profit of 20 million pounds a year comes from Dover Port, of an annual turnover of 60 million pounds.
UKIP as a Party is against privatisation of the Port, where-as Charlie's proposal of a privatisation
mortgage of hundreds of million pounds on the Port does not even include a T2.
If no T2 is needed, as even DHB has stated that T2 won't be needed until 2020-2025, then all the more reason that the Port privatisation plan should
become defunct, as its initial conditon, a T2 terminal, is off the table even in DHB's words, at least for ten to fifteen years.
Vic has got the Port idea right all along, privatisation is not wanted, nor is it financially viable,
and this is what he and UKIP have been stating all along.
Even the Tory and Labour candidates for the coming December election don't harangue Vic over this.
If Charlie's port-proposal didn't pull off even with full BBC coverage,
and only it's presenters turned out, then that's because people in Dover can add 2 and 2 together!
Sorry mate! - Vic let me try again in simple words;
We need to
push for as much as we can at the Buckland site,NOT carry on the arguement about Whitfield.Whitfield is dead and buried even Charlie has changed his stance and now falls back behind the District Council.
It is not an idea site
(Buckland) and we will not get everything we wanted but for god sake lets push and if we need to argue.But these matters have been decided by money and what the GP'S asked for. - john
i have not seen vic in recent times bring up the subject of the whitfield site.
he has stated along with myself and others that buckland had been decided upon a long while ago. - Why can't the highspeed trains stop at Deal - Southeastern are rubbish
- GORDON COWAN
Like our vic
gordon is standing in the KCC elections.
Gordon joined me about 5 years ago in forming a very new
Town and Pier activities club
after long discussions we decided to take any youths in town and pier ward off the street by
offering football training.
hes a fantastic coach and turned children many with low esteem to ones that reached the semi finals of the cup against far bigger sides.
To watch these children develope social skills over the
years was a fantastic sight.
the club went from running training nights, t putting teams in the 5 a side league at the start losing 10-0 week in week out but gordon stuck at it, and proved he could give these children so many social
skills it was a delight to watch.
The club because of gordons push ran bingo in the church hall
another great local adventure.
the club continues to grow
even when gordon became labour leader on DDC he always
made sure his volunteer work continued
gordon is dedicated to the club, and we are on the lookout as to how to expand the club even more.
gordon also managed to organise a coach trip to romford
the club has always been
about getting locals take control of there own communities, training up p;arents to become football managers.
gordon also believes in all communities getting facilities they deserve and more shuold be done to get a play area in
the ward.
gordon also supports the local clarendon and westbury comm assoc
so heres just a few things gordon involves himself in, not to shout about it but to get on and do
it
- Cllr Goodwin's assessment at 5.18pm is absolutely right. My view was that we had to get on with it now (or lose it altogether) and the settlement is better than
that previously offered. Not just the core services - the care beds too.
I will keep working to see that the care beds are delivered and for an upgrade to doctor led urgent care from nurse consultants. What really weighed with me
in all this was the need to save people - especially the elderly and the least well off - long, expensive journeys and to see healthcare access be as local as possible.
I know it's not perfect, but I have done my very best to
get us as much as possible and will keep working on it. I hope DDC will assist with the planning permission etc so bricks can be laid soonest. - charlie
it sounds like you are trying to get the right side of john in the hope he will let you off your train fare.
on a less serious note
you have stated that emergency care will be available at the new hospital, my understanding is that at present only a minor injuries unit is planned, similar to the present one.
good luck with your efforts in getting doctor led
urgent care. - MrElphicke.I like what you said "I have done my very best to get us as much as possibe",I do not agree,and some of the others are the main cause
that the Hospital is not up and running by now,same as the port ,you keep jumping ship, but the Dover voters are not fools and that will show at the polls next week and next may. But thank you for coming on the forum. - Sorry I left out the word ,"I do not agree YOU and some of the others
- Alexander, I have responded in
two parts to your post. The first is for those that are not technically minded or for those easily bored.
1 - Your last comment on hanging (sorry I mean’t haranging) Mr Matcham is just laughable. I’m sure that that statement alone
has caused a huge amount of amusement amongst those that now this poor little man. If he didn’t want to be challenged he should have not put up as a councillor with undeliverable promises.
The question was simple do you have a
plan for not privatising the port.
What I got was 3 days of prevarication and on the 4th day a series of ill thought out and unsupported views and ideas. If the answer had been no, we don’t have a plan, it would have been done and
dusted. Perpetuating the myth and not answering the question was not my doing. The lesson here is don’t say you’re going to do something if you can’t.
2 More detail.
I’m not sure why you think my comments to Mr Matcham are
unfair. He made, on this forum, a bid for my vote as UKIP candidate. One of the Dover issues that I am passionate about is the port and how Dover town can benefit from it. Mr Matcham made some claims in this area and I simply asked for
his/UKIP’s plan. That was 5 days ago. It took Mr Matcham 4 days to eventually respond following prevarication on other peoples’ plans. His final response was a selection of ideas and views with no substance in fact that cannot be
delivered.
I’m not sure why you have included the point on the port charter as it’s never been something that Mr Matcham has raised before. Without changing the charter there are still many things DHB as a trust can do to bring
huge benefits to Dover Town and its residents. The first would be a vehicle Buffer Zone outside of Dover.
It is unfortunate that you choose to make such ludicrous comments regarding port efficiency that do not reflect the facts. I
suggest you read DHB’s own report Port of Dover Masterplan Zoning Report. This is the report that states the Eastern Dock is capable, with some improvement, of carrying all traffic capacity only limited by Ferry Deck Utilisation Capacity
(DCU) till 2024. Here (DCU) it is running at 50% other national ferry services run at 70%. By anyones standards that’s inefficient. Improving ferry deck utilisation to just 55% (with E.Dock improvements) allows the Eastern Dock to cope
with forecast traffic growth upto and beyond 2035.
Peoples Port doesn’t need to include T2 it’s not necessary until sometime after 2035, if at all.
As T2 is not needed then the Port is even riper for picking by
privatisation.
Mr Matcham and UKIP have proved they have no realistic plans or even proposals for the Port of Dover that might benfit Dover either at Town or District level. Please don’t suggest there is even a hint of financial
understanding from them, because that is simply insulting to many people on this forum that do understand these issues. - Keith, wow I thought toadying only occurred in public
schools. What a wonderful piece of subserviant, grovelling, a dose of scripted diarrhoea many serf's would be proud of.
Next you'll be saying he crawled across a frozen lake to save a stranded puppy.
You do realise your making
yourself look a fool, but then perhaps you are the jester in the Labour court of King Cowan. - graham
i have authorised your last two posts as is obvious.
do you
not think that the personal attacks are rather unwarranted?
everyone is entitled to attack what is said, but it does you a disservice to describe people as "fools" or "poor little man".
it rather reflects on your
character. - Actually I think the main reason for the delay was the red herring about the town centre site.
- You men and your (somewhat silly at times) electioneering are all too late with me , I have already posted my postal vote. LOL
- Vic are you having a giraffe
?!!
"And do we real need all the lorrys coming into Dover,No we do not we could make the port of Dover into the UK top Leisure port"
DHB take £1m a year from the marina which is peanuts towards the annual £58m that the
docks takes, Dover is never going to be Monaco!! - Sorry my last post was about the hospital. GrahamJ we welcome your input on the port but please keep the
unparliamentary language out of it. Charlie, welcome to the forum, hope you will continue to intervene when appropriate. - Howard I'm happy to withdraw the term fool and
replace it with foolish, which is more appropriate and less personal. It does however reflect the whole tone of what is in effect a free party political broadcast on behalf of the labour party. There are lots of people doing great work
in Dover and they do not publish it on here or any where to seek thanks let alone an official office.
As moderator If you think the Keith comment is that offensive please remove it but I have seen Keith post worse.
The
poor little man you can scrub as well if you like but the strong impression that Alexander was giving was that I was bullying Mr Matcham and he is vulnerable.. Not sure that sits well with all of Mr Matchams posts. It was intended to be
sarcastic, perhaps too subtle.
Please change "Poor little man" to "Mr Matcham" as well.
The rest of the response to Alexander is all factual, so nothing needs to be changed
there. - Mr Graham first I would not say I am a small person,and you might find that out if one day you meet up with me.But you are right I am poor.I did not put a bid in for
your vote that is again not true,You aske me about what I think about the port ,and I told you,I also told you why you had to wait for it.As for the D.H.B. reports I have been going to all their meetings that have been open to me to go
to, And at this very point in time I have in front of me, the DHB "Our Plan for the next Generation ferry Terminal (2).
Next DHB The Case for a change of corporate structure for the Port of Dover,
Next DHB Port of Dover Annual
Report &Accounts 2009 also some where I have the same for 2008,2007,2006, and so on.
Next I have the DHB Portof Dover Strategic Review again 2009, And I do read them all.So all that I have said is not rubbish but fact.
Now
going on to the New Hospital for Dover,I am a Dover member of the East Kent Hospital University NHS Foundation Trust ,and there are some 900+members in Dover of that Trust,and I get reports from the trust and I am asked along to their
meetings and i go to them,the last one was in Dover only last week. and in front of me again at this time I have the NHS for the above trust Annual report 2009/10, so you can see that I am on the ball with what this happing at the port
and the Hospital,I do not know who our MP has been talking to, but I know who I have been talking to and unlike him I can say their names At Canterbury, Ashford,and the last one at Dover I was talking to the Trust Chairman Mr Nicholas
Wells,and he did not tell me anything that I can not say on the forum.Also I got talking must say not alot to the new Trust Chief Executive,I only think i know his name so will not put it on the forum.But what I can tell you that both of
them are doing a very good job for this part of the UK.
- Mr Matcham thanks for the warning not to meet up with you I'll keep quiet on the subject
then. - That is the best thing you have said all night,but I wish you well, and no hard feeling,I have always said"I put myself in the fireing line,and in doing that I know
I will get shot at. Thank you again for your post.I am out and about at this time I do not know what area you are in,but if you see me please come over,lots do and I like to talk, but not for to long, time waits for no man. - Graham, the Forum has analysed just about everything the Port does, East and West, and just about every aspect of the various implications of privatisation; views have been
exchanged, and it is generally agreed upon that the Secretary for Transport will make a decision.
However, this decision has still not come, probably because the issue is so vital, locally and nationally, and the Government is going
careful so as not to fret things.
Hence the intense public consultation to explore the views of any who were interested in taking actively part in it.
When supplying information about the Port, I base it on what the local news
-papers have openly stated, but do not release information direct from the representations.
The only exception being that I have stated that there are alternative proposals to the DHB plan, and this so as to correct any undue
statements that there are no other proposals (note the plural).
Vic cannot go further than assuring the public that he and UKIP are against the Port privatisation plan, and he evidently doesn't intend revealing information that to
date is confidential and has been given to the Secretary for Transport.
Vic has stated repeatedly that his major concern is that the Port does not go bankrupt, and he believes that any form of privatisation would lead to
bankruptcy.
I have tried explaining to you that this does not mean that there cannot be a future revenue for the Town and country-side, but the Secretary for Transport no doubt wants to get the Dover Port status sorted out for the
benefit of Dover and of the Country, and is still thinking over how to go about it and sifting through the proposals.
So to vote for a candidate who is and always has been strongly saying No! to Port privatisation is the best UKIP can
offer on this issue.
We can agree on these friendly terms that the people can decide on the 16th who they wish to vote for. - Alexander.
Don't think I can comment any
further it's been made quite clear on a number of occasions that you have discussed this to death and a new comer to the forum should not raise issues you feel you have covered. The last time quite forcibly enough.
Mr
Matcham.
The invite for a visit is declined as your warning against meeting up with you was enough.
Hey ho free speech is a wonderful thing. - Thankyou for your
comments, graham in this open forum it's so nice to have differing views.
To explain my previous post, Vic was quite rrightly given space on this page to give his view as as candidate in the KCC elections
I just gave a
very brief insight into another candidate
on the question of lots of people work hard in Dover, you will find graham that I do on a regular basis thank and congratulate those that work hard for Dover.
Graham, I don't
agree with some of your postings, but in those instances i reply to them
i hope iv never called you a fool or that your foolish
Isnt it nice we can all have a view and still the forum gets better and
better.
- I hope we hear from Mr Graham again,some of what he put in his posts were good to read. We all go over the top at times and I should know.I must say as I get
older I have lost some of that smile,so I will try and get it back. - This is good news for Dover and shows that Charlie Elphicke is getting involved in "your issues".
But he is suppose to be the MP for Deal also and to be quite honest most people in Deal would find it easier to go to QEQM which is a bigger hospital anyway. Most residents of Deal do not work at the port of Dover, what we need is better
transport links and especially better rail services to London. - natasha
my understanding is that charlie is actively lobbying south
east trains in order to get the high speed train into deal. - I live in Deal, but if they stopped everywhere en route it wouldn't be much of a high speed service
!! - @Howard
Accordingy to the trains4deal website Charlie failed to turn up to the Rail Stakeholders Forum to argue the case. This week when Kent MP's have spoken out
against Southeastern's franchise I have not heard anything from Charlie. As far as I understand if the Department for Transport ask Southeastern to extend the highspeed service to Deal they will comply and no track or station upgrade
would be required. It really doesn't sound too difficult to get it sorted out! - @Paul
The highspeed trains that already pass through
Deal are empty - it would not increase anyone's existing commute. It would however dramatically reduce the journey time for Deal. How can operating empty trains be of any benefit to anyone. - Early morning and late evening trains could stop at Deal on their way from Ramsgate, but not during the day. They operate a shuttle between St P and Dover. I
would imagine that to keep to the timetable at least 6 extra 6 car units would be needed during the day. - natasha
i did notice that with the other kent mp's
taking issue with south east trains.
i didn't know that about the stakeholder meeting. - @Terry
If only the early morning and late evening trains
stopped at Deal this would at least give commuters to London a decent service. I would suspect most people paying for highspeed would fall into this category although obvioulsy there would still be people during the day losing out - but
it would be a good start. - Totally agree Natasha. I travel thru to Dover to get a train that either slows or stops at Deal but does not allow
passengers. - Howard is right that I have been working on getting the fast train to stop at Deal in commuting periods. I have met with the MD of
South East Trains, Network Rail, the Leader of KCC and the Rail Minister on this issue.
With Cllr Julie Rook, I have managed to chase away excuses about lighting, platforms and signalling headways etc etc at Deal and focussed on
the real issue which, as ever, is money. Working through the costings and money pots with Cllr Rook, I am increasingly optimistic that we may see the fast trains stop next year. This is not certain, but we are both working really hard on
this.
As a Deal resident and commuter myself, I feel very strongly about this. It's been difficult to go to the campaign meetings in Deal as they are held when Parliament is sitting. I have not publicised this, nor bashed the
rail company because I did not want to raise hopes and it is more effective to work positively and quietly on issues like this where many parties are involved.
I hope this explains to Natasha and others that while I have been
busy on the port matter and the hospital, I have not been asleep at the wheel for Deal. As I say I am cautiously optimistic - but as ever the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I long to see the fast train stop at Deal and get on it
. . . ! - in fairness to charlie here, if he is in the commons people will ask why is he not in his constituency, and the
reverse applies.
m.p.'s are in a no win situation sometimes. - Charlie thank you for the reply and I do appreciate you have not been asleep at the wheel,
but it does highlight what someone else posted asking if you are able to equally serve Deal and Dover. The population of Deal is expanding and I believe it is such a high priority to get the highspeed extension not just for commuters,
the local economy and tourism but for our childrens future. I would like to see our future entrepenuers and scholars still reside in Deal but have the ability to reach our capital in a reasonable time and not relocate to towns like
Ashford.
I am unsure what you mean in the way of costings, I was told a highspeed train stopped at Deal during the snow so I dont think any cost would be required. If you are talking about highspeed season ticket holder numbers
at Deal then this i suspect is not valid as many people from Deal drive to Dover, Ashford or Ramsgate to get on the highspeed. - As I said
Natasha, they could. I can only assume that it's just bloody mindedness on the part of SouthEastern that they don't. If they left 5 minutes earlier and arrived 5 minutes later at their overnight sidings they could stop at Sandwich,
Deal and Walmer. - blimey natasha i was about to turn off my computer then i see your post waiting to be approved.
if you have strong views
on things in the dover and deal area send paul an e mail and become a full member, no delays then. - the problem you have here is the more stations it stops at the
less chance of its remaining high speed - Yes Keith, people in Martin Mill, the other Folkestone Station, Sandling, Westernhanger will want the stop
too..
- High Speed is west of Ashford Keith, stopping before that is still an advantage.
- As a
matter of interest does anybody know how many voters are registered in Deal and how many in Dover? - I had the pleasure of seconding the motion (see editorial above) and with
my record of being able to sniff out fires I need all the help I can get! Seriously of course this doesn't affect just the Towns mentioned but in the case of serious fire then engines from other Towns attend as well.
We need these
engines and the people who risk thier lives to protect us,let your Councillor know that you support the moves to stop any cuts in the Fire and Rescue service. - TERRY
I'm well aware ref high speed, lets see what happens
the above posting is realy important, lets see the viewpoint from you all on this one - This
story is not true. I visited Dover Fire Station some months ago. I listened carefully to the concerns of our excellent and hard working fire officers who were worried about the future of our fire services. I then looked into what was
happening and discovered that our services are not under threat.
The areas that may be affected are Thanet and Medway. If we had been under threat, I would have taken it up and fought our corner. This position has been confirmed
to me this morning by the head of the fire authority - as you can imagine, I was concerned myself to check whether something had changed or if this was just scaremongering! Hope this may allay concerns - I will keep monitoring the
situation.
In relation to the other questions raised, the population of Dover and Deal are the same - both are around 23,000 electors. Broadly, the constituency falls into three equal parts - Dover, Deal and the villages. It is
important the high speed train stops in Deal as it is a major town. I do not think it will realistically be possible to get it to stop anywhere else, although I am sure Laura Sandys MP will make the case for Sandwich.
There are a
number of current issues in Deal I am working on - principally the trains, an unwanted housing development at Sholden, fighting the corner of an elderly widow who has been boarded up by trustees who should know better and getting
JobCentre services back into Deal. Longer term I feel Deal needs a Northern entry and have tentatively raised the idea of a spur from the Eastry roundabout on the A256 to London Road, Deal. The A258 is overloaded and it is important for
the economic development of Deal that road and rail access is better. - Let us hope and pray when the Condems make these cuts
a tragedy does not follow soon after, if the authorities state that the tragedy would have been avoided had the cuts not happened then there will be serious questions to be answered. - thanks for information charlie, bit of a relief that about the fire and rescue service not being affected.
don't think you will have much luck with a jobcentre reopening in deal, locals can access the job centre
website from their library.
the only thing is that when they sign on every two weeks it is a £.5. fare approx quite a sizeable proportion of the jobseeker allowance of about £.60. - Thanks for your prompt reply Charlie, hopefully you are being told the truth re the Fire Stations and not just being appeased in FIFA style. Interesting that Deal carries
the same amount of voters as Dover, not sure that is always reflected in your publicity with Dover seeming to get the majority of your time. I look forward to the A258 being brought into the 21st
Century. - Actually Dover district fire stations are under review. Thanet and Medway were the first phase of that review. Dover is part of the second phase.
The details of
this were on the front of the Deal and Sandwich Express a couple of months ago.
The story is at thisiskent and search Deal fire station
No decisions have been made about closing any of the stations but the FBU say it is
possible - Charlie the electrol register does not include everyone, the 2001 census indicates Dover (28,156) - Deal (29,248) but I suspect next years census will show a
further increase for Deal.
Just one other thing I wanted to say about the highspeed, the new timetable Southeastern are introducing does not help connection times and the fare rises in January for highspeed and normal at nearly
13% are higher than anywhere else in the country. - That is correct Kathy.
Regrettably John Goodwin and others have only told half the
story.
When they proposed the motion Gordon Cowan was not present at the meeting.
The motion was amended and accepted by John G. In effect that full consultation take place should proposals come forward.
This is a
opportunist BY-ELECTION scare for "our Gordon". - Nice to see all the blues posting and their leader and the MP, it must be Election time and it is
not going to well for them at this time,never mind lads it will be all over by the end of the week,I have not seen many of you on the streets, years ago we would all meet each other,this time I have not seen anyone,have you given it up
as a bad job, and giving me a easy ride. Or is it you are all geting to old now for the walking about. - vic
to be honest i'v been out and about last few days and iv
not seen you out!!!!
anyway i tell no lie when i tell you i spotted the missing man mr collor today at the bottom of coombe valley
he was with none other than forumite and ex labour/new party and now tory activist stuart
dimmock
- paul
can you please clarify what the amendment to the motion was, this political speak is lost on many of us. - If, as has been stated the F.B.U. has concerns over fire station closures, if this may happen we should listen, whilst it's grand charlie goes to the emplyers to ask if
stations will close, they are hardly likely at this time to admit it. - Howard,
There are no propsals for either Station closures or reductions to the local fire
service.
We were asked to oppose what was not being proposed.
We amended to ask for Full Consultation which received unanimous support [and acceptance from proposer and seconder]
should a review offer new
arrangements.
Simple.
No doubt more of this to come as the bye -election passes and District/Town elections draw on.
Simple - Does anyone know anyone from the F.B.U.
- This Fire station nonsense, is just that - nonsense, scare-mongering for the election.
I hope the general public are
not taken in by this.
I guess the Labour group are throwing everything at this election - except honesty.
Roger - Keith by now you should have got my
leaflet,I am not doing you area this time, but it is geting done. But I am out there.but stoped and went to sea Dover they were winning 2.1 when I left. - sounds like you
are electioneering roger, dover area fire services are under review.
see kathy's post on here. - no vic
not got
it - It is not electioneering at all,but the concerns we have after one of our group spoke to the Fireman at Deal,we all know what reviews mean,cuts to hours and postions.We are
glad the Council are keeping their eye on the situation.
Kathy has said this was on the front page of the Deal/Sandwich Express and we hope to put pressure on any one who thinks our Fire Brigade can trim a bit here or there.These
people risk their lives everyday and as I said we are pleased to support them and having the Full Council backing.But I fear this will not be the end of the matter.
- well said john
- A message for Keith Sansum 1
You said that a "tory activist" told you their prediction of the result of the forth coming by-elections, are you
prepaired to disclose the name of this person? The reason for the question is that you have given the same result as your own prediction on an earlier date. I hope that you will find the time to answer this. - MICK
The geezer has asked me not to disclose his name so being one that is happy to keep peoples confidentiality when they ask.
it's pure coincidence that we may agree
on the outcome of the results.
I answer for that gentleman but myself heres my reasons;
CASTLE TOWN SEAT
I think because the conservatives for whatever reason have not put up a candidate(which is interesting in itself)
then the alliance will probably win castle.
LYDDEN
I think this is a safe conservative area and they should hold onto that seat, don't know r have heard of the candidate but hopefully in time we will.
DOVER
TOWN
after a close fight labour will win the seat with the tories coming second and the lib dems a long way behind third and vic getting a few protest votes, and not as many as expected.
of course both myself and this geezer
culd be wrong, it was just an interesting conversation of course personally i hope labour win all 3 seats but i do look at things in a realistic way.
but thankyu for your interest
mick - line before castle seat
should read i CAN'T answer for the geezer but heres my reasons
of course mick i did at the time invite thers to
predict - Keith,
The Conservative candidate for Lydden and Temple Ewell is Geoff Lymer who has experience as a hardworking and respected parish councillor in Alkham - you
haven't heard of him because you don't live in sheepland! - Ray
Thanks for that info, no i don't live up and oround those non political parish council area now
political.
I did serve as a county member for 4 years around lydden so may well have come across the young man.
but im sure all those elected will do a god job for Dover
- Sorry I have missed all this but We have been out and about,and must say we are geting good feed backs where we go ,but we will find out on Thursday,we are out again in the
morning,so might see some of you about.We have had apower cut all day at RIVER and it has just come back on. - Keith,
I don't think you can call our parish
councils political.
All three candidates for our current DDC by-election stood as unaffiliated at the last parish and town council elections where they stood, as it should be in my opinion at this level. District Council
elections are a different thing as you know.
(I did chuckle at your typo though, I imagined the councillors going all religious and happy clappy, praying to make the right decisions at the meetings!)
- i can picture it now ray at the parish council.
all the elected members throwing their hands in the air and extolling "oh lordy lordy come amongst us, speaking in tongues,
and give the herberts who desecrate our village bogs a right punch up the bracket".
the more i think about it the more likely it becomes. - Keith! We all know
that Labour and Conservative Councillors decided to urbanise the outskirts of Dover District against the will of the vast majority of people here. Hopefully these urbanisation plans will come to nothing unless we ourselves have a
population increase of local people!
So why should the Dovorians sit back and vote for your two parties, the ones you are advocating, or not vote at all?
Most unlikely!
Only one candidate has stood up to represent the thoughts
of the people here, with regards to urbanisation plans and to the Port. The Tories and Labour have decided not to represent the people on these issues.
So once again, why should the people of Dover sit back and let them have another
go? - So it seens that UKIP & labour are that desperate for votes that they have to have their supporters plastering this site, I think I'll leave it to them. The owners of
the site should be aware that the lunatics are taking over the asylum. - just a tad unfair mick, every political party can post what they like on here, we welcome
it.
our blue honourable member has posted a few times on here over the last few days, not forgetting that blue barry has his own blog.
paulb owns the site and i can safely say that he welcomes all viewpoints. - I think you may be right Mick, not so much about taking over the Forum, but about their supporters invading too many threads.
Perhaps we should have just one election
thread, then those who are interested and want to make a comment, can do so on that one thread.
Maybe a thought for the next election
Roger - Howard is
right guys. We are happy to run items from all parties and have indeed asked for news from all parties, this enables us to try and strike a fair balance. If UKIP and Labour have recognised the fact that we have large viewing figures
quicker than the Conservatives, and taken the info onboard and used it, then what can we do other than to encourage the Conservatives to contribute in the same way.
But Conservative Leader Paul Watkins is a regular contributor and
will probably comment on the latest Museum story above. Looking forward to it Paul...
Charlie Elphicke Conservative MP has also contributed on here recently and very welcome too.
I have now just added as you can see, a new
release from Labour further adding to our original Museum story of a few weeks back. - it seems strange that the conservatives/lib dems are not using this tool
as much as the labour/ukip are.or is it because they have nothing to say. - let's hope it is not the death by a thousand cuts for the museum, the staff do a first rate job
there with exhibitions and family events.
i have always thought that the price of admission is too low.
i doubt that any of our overseas visitors would baulk at paying a fiver for the chance of seeing the bronze age boat
and all the other excellent artefacts. - Brian, the libs in this area have never had much to say even at election time. Maybe the Conservative keep quiet until they have something that is really important to
say unlike UKIP and Labour who feel the need to keep reminding us they are still around.
Regarding the fire service, maybe they get fewer call-outs than other areas and because we are more law-abiding in this corner of Kent as a
result there are not so many malicious time wasters in our area. I believe the Labour group are just scaremongering. - What a complete non-story. the Conservatives have clearly
stated that the Museum isn't closing. The Labour quotes do not provide any solution to the funding issues, al they do is criticise options that haven't been taken, and provide none of their own.
- We at UKIP have not said anything about the Fire Service or the Museum, because I do not know anything about what is or what is not happing. But I think that this is just
the Reds trying to get the late Voter, but I have not heard anything of the above, - Today is the first anniversary of the start of highspeed rail services in Kent,
Charles Horton managing director of Southeastern has said he is committed to continuous improvement of the service for the benefit of passengers. If this is true then Southeastern should extend the highspeed service to Deal with
immediate effect. Currently empty highspeed trains are passing through Deal station during peak hours without stopping and excluding a major Kent town from the highspeed timetable.
hsdeal.blogspot.com - i think its fair to say the tories in the past and up to today have used this frum to promote there party.
I can't speak for other parties or the
labour party(as im no t a member) but as an individual I post 365 days of the year not just leading up to any election, so please give me credit.
I'm pleased the labour party and UKIP send in press releases or subjects of
debate, for to long this forum was very one sided and often looked like it was a web site direct from tory central office.
In the past I have discussed this with paulb and s posted to even things up, and give alternative views
as well as the labour UKIP also sending stuff in thats grand.
I never heard roger complain in those early days when all that was seen on here was tory central office stuff. or barryw's totally dominating the forum, funny
isn't it as soon as you do as others ask(post)then then complain.
it's like they said in the dad's army series
THEY DON'T LIKE IT UP EM CAPT MANNERING Lol
- Not closing. End of story.
- Paulw
thankyou for telling us all the museum is to stay that's welcome news for us all.
with
regard to labour person's posting, apart from the press releases I don't think the labour party posts any more than the tories/ukip etc,
As an individual(but not a member of the labour party) Like others I was asked to post, now
doing so, some change there minds.
As i'v said on other threads there was in earlier days a danger that this forum became a talking shop for the tory party, i did give my views at that time and paulb rightly said that if
someone from labour gave press releases etc they would be given the same space as any other party/person.
- British heritage is important to UKIP, so the closing of
museums offering insight into local and national history is certainly not part of any UKIP agenda. - Are the rumours that Crabble Athletic closing true?
- I think that UKIP get a very good part of the Dover forum,and I am happy as chairman of UKIP in Dover with the cover we get,and thnk you for that.
- quite right vic, ukip used the forum to best effect at the last election.
good to see gordon giving press releases from the reds, his leadership is much more outgoing
than by his predecessor mr bill banjo. - And we are still doing it.I am asking Mr Farage later on,if he will also come on the Forum to.As you all know he is on the
T.V. and radio alot as leader of UKIP.And I will again be asking him to stand in Dover at the next Gen/ Election. In Dover UKIP is geting good support and that will even get better over next year and we will be ready for the local
Election in May,with more members puting up for office. As for myself it is wait and see till after the By -Election this week. - oh joy another joke
page.lol - Brian,please tell us all the joke so we can join in mate. Thank you.
- mr
farage. - I think that just about tells us all.Thank you for your Post . Sorry for the one lines Paul,will not happen again.
- thank you vic.no offence ment.
paulb,its just a one of one liner wont happen again. - afraid that the one
liners have meant that an important post from hsblogspot will not be noticed.
it's worth remembering that people see the front page first and make a judgement then whether to look any further. - Sue,
With today's annucement of 8.1% cut's in council spending, and the great news on the museum, what will be
cut? - 8.1% doesn't seem as high as i was expecting stephen.
maybe shared services will help keep front line services safe. - Stephen it is not as simple as 8.1% cut because unlike the Fire and the Police services it is front loaded. 24% I think over 4 years,but that starts at about 15-16% in the
first year,I haven't got the exact nunbers to hand but it is sonething like that.
Life will never be the same for any Council it makes me wonder if the Tory DDC preferred having a Labour Chencellor rather than the current one and
Mr Pickles! - Sell Then Off
At this time both councils are hard up and need more funding,.(Or are they)
Both councils have Assets set at many £100.000of
Pounds,and the Public never ,never see them ,did you know that we have in big boxs Oil Paintings that never see Daylight,but are worth £1000s of pounds which could keep our toilets open for years and parks looking nice.and also there is
Gold again never seen by the Public,what I am saying is"It is nice to own them but what use if the public never see them,so I say sell the lot,Gold is at its best,and oil paintings of the kind we have would sell overnight. I would like
to know what you think of this?Should They sell or not. Thank you. - police and fire jobs on the line
redundancy notices issued already in some areas
Lets
wait stephen for sue or paulw t let us know what they will be cutting - some council cuts at 8.9%,but one council is still spending a
misly0.4%. - The Dover District Council spending cuts amount to 40% over the next four years, once all has been calculated, including inflation. This has been stated at the
prospective Councillors meeting, so I know the figure first hand, it is official. - Oil paintings and gold could be exhibited at periods within the Dover Museum, and
possibly some items from neighbouring Districts too. The items could then be put on exhibition for periods of time in neighbouring museums. It would be better than private owners getting them, the public could view the treasures, and
more money would come into the museums. - Keith, I doubt the Tory DDC will let us know what they will be cutting before the 16th December! I can hardly see them writing this
down here, as they have made great spending plans in the days of New Labour and according to the spending sprees of New Labour, but have not calculated how much more money would be needed for services for the people once their
urbanisation plans for Whitfield and Deal went into practice. Instead the Councils will have by far less to spend, and how that will fit in with a massive population increase over the years, stemming from migration from London, not even
DDC can tell you!
Note that Charlie Tory MP for Dover and Deal strongly disagrees with DDC concerning their Great Rome projects for Dover! - Im very much involved with
the Musuem and indeed today I attended a meeting to discuss the way forward .I re instate Cllr Watkins statement the Musuem will not close .
Look at it this way if you have a garden or indeed own a house every so often you decide on
a new plan .Maybe different vegiees to grow ,; with a better return .Living in the country as a child I recall all these things of nature .
Take stock and plan for the future . .
- i am rather confused on this, the reds say that funding cuts will ultimately kill the museum, the furher says rather cunningly that the museum will not close.
sounds rather
like political speak from our masters here. - This is all just pre-election scaremongering by the Reds - nothing more.
A few years ago, just before I was
elected in 2003, the Labour group were running the administration and they closed and sold off all the exhibits in the White Cliffs Experience and closed it down - the 1940's street was given away to Plymouth for a song.
The Old
Town Gaol was closed down by them and the Grand Shaft was also closed at this time.
Dover Mueum had around £180,000 cut from its budget too, so don't tell me that the Reds know how to look after our historic sites and
attractions.
I wouldn't trust them to look after a piggy bank - it would be smashed after a month.
Three tourism sites closed and one hit very badly by Labour, so remember, this is just a story to try and make you vote Labour
on Thursday - they're just scare stories, don't be taken in by them.
And don't forget that when they did leave DDC in 2003, the mess the accounts were in, the biggest (financial) hole in Dover's history and just like the
Labour Government, they denied it was their fault or their doing.
Roger
- roger,scare storys come from both sides,with claim and counter claim.no wonder the
public of dover are confused. - I must say I go along with what Roger is sayng on this one, it is the same old thing coming out ,and that does happen each time before we go to
the polls,I try to keep to facts as they are. - This member of the public is not at all confused.
I am used to the rubbish that some politicians spout just before
an election they treat the public like fools but we are not, we can see through the scaremongering.
In future because of Labour's museum scaremongering they will not be able to cut the museums finances for fear of being compared
to the Libs with their student fiasco. - What's cunning Howard?
A straightforward statement that cannot be misunderstood.
The Museum is not closing.
The
public want straight answers this cannot be clearer. - paulw,mud springs to mind,its hardly rocket sciance to work out the truth of the
matter. - Congratulations to the "Trains 4 Deal" campaign for getting coverage on the BBC, but it would be nice if our MP could make as much of an impact, if not more!
news.bbc.co.uk/local/kent/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9282000/9282172.stm - paul
i am referring to the comments by mike eddy
about reducing staffing levels which would lead to reduced ability to get funding.
yes the museum would stay open, but for how long if that happened?
roger
yes the reds did close the grand shaft and the gaol, but when
you were standing for election you stated that these would be opened by the blues. 8 years on and no sign of either. - If it was to be run as a trust with volunteers
it wouldn't shut would it? But would it be as good? Or even fewer part-time staff.By saying it won't close and being bronze status in the councils review of delivering effective services don't add up.
Quote Bronze.Those services
that would impact if lost but would be sacrificed or severerly reduced if the Comprehensive Spending Review dictates( these will see a lowering of services levels.)
- The POD worker sat at the Desk must be saying something interesting as she certainly seems to have the full attention of the three wise men ;-)
- perhaps a caption
competition is called for martin?
ok i will start the ball rolling.
mr penning to dhb lady "how many people work in the docks?"
the reply "about a quarter of them". - my caption is,bob goldfinger thinking,nice buns and i wonder if shes getting her puppies out.
- Find me the
election literature that said we would keep open the Gaol etc. Howard.It was already closed.
What we promised we re-instated.
As for the Museum's accredition status THAT WILL NOT BE COMPROMISED. - paul
you have misread my post, it was said at the time that the gaol and grand shaft would be reopened.
i am sure you know that i
would not keep an election leaflet for 8 years, the statement was made also on the old dover web.
in the interests of balance your administration extended opening of the museum to sundays from april to october. - My caption,
DHB lady to Goldfield - "You're fired!" - Can you steady this ship I feel seasick!
or is this 'The Peoples Port Office'
or as Mr Penning seems to have Mr Mountford controlling him like a dummy where is his hand!
Gottle of Gear - I am not
voting Thursday - tis a shame alan
hard fought for tis the vote
but of course you have that choice - that is your right alan, how do you go about complaining about things afterwards then?
- There is no point complaining any more as nothing gets done and
the complaint always gets passed from one person to another.and people don't count anymore,unless some one wants something then there around you like files on a lump of S**T.Sorry that how I feel. - alan
never was the case in my 25 years
and i know to be the same with politicians from other parties - Alan,
you were invited to contact Nigel Collor on 5 December 2010 at 6:08 pm, so far you havent given him any further details. I have also assisted you with details, what more do you want? Tell me and I will contact the people on your
behalf. - quite right stewart, would you be so kind as to explain about your buttock tattoos on the members forum?
i remain yours faithfully. - Mr. Penning: These two gentlemen are my witnesses; I bet you a fiver it won't pull off!
The lady: let me see it first! - Stewart Dimmock, Thank you That one has been sorted But thank you for your help. I really cant go into details on hear about anything
at the Moment.but again thanks for your
concern. - Good luck to all who are standing in the by,Election on Thursday of all partys and lets hope for good weather,and I hope to meet up with you tomorrow
night. - I will be there at the count .Telling at Temple Ewelll and Lydden
- For those of you in River
.Normal electric power should be resumed today and generators removed .
Mr Taylor Councillors do listen and respond - Alan, if you are talking about the snow problem
you had , I thought everything was sorted once you posted about it on the forum. If this is the case I think you are being a little unfair, if not I apologise for my mistake.
If you do not want to vote someone in vote to keep
someone out but you should always vote, if not you have no right to complain later. - Jan, Thank you the snow prob was sorted this is something else.
- Could some one give me the backgrounds of all the candidates in the election here.
- michael
which election?
you have two tomorrow, county and parish.
unfortunately i cannot recommend a thread on the latest news bit, as the issues seem to have spread over several.
our own mr matcham
is standing for county and parish though. - Howard
My understanding is that there is a District council election
here to? or have I got it wrong?
certainly had a leaflet to siuggest so - Michael you shouhd have mine they were on the leaflets,.First I am aDoverian, and have served on both the Town council
and River Parish councils,and was chairman of the events committee on the Town council I served in the army from 1958-1964, in the (The Buffs and Queens own Buffs Regiment. At this time I am on the committee of the friends of Dover
Castle,I am chairman of the Kent Splenectomy Trust,also member of the East Kent NHS trust, and next year I am going to try and be a NHS Trust Hospital Governor,Also I am a supportor of the Dover War Memorial Project.And I am a retired
welder and steel worker,working both in the UK and overseas. Also I am a former ABA Heavyweight boxer and trainer,and others and enjoy choral singing when I have time,long walks and cycling which I can not do at this time.I am also on
the working committee of the Festival Dover 2012 and other events in Dover,there are more but they are the main ones,Also Chairman of UKIP in Dover. - Yes that is right,and I am standing for that one to ,my list for standing are Parish, Town Council,District council,and the County, And Yes I could do them all as a working Cllr.
- apologies michael i get easily confused.
yes you do have a district council election and not county or parish.
the websites of both lydden and temple ewell parish
councils do not carry any information.
will have to leave it to one of our politicos to fill you in on the details. - Thank you Mr Matcham and yes had your
leaflet and others
are you aware of the backgrounds of the other candidates, or who they are.
Also Mr Matcham, if your standing for all those seats will you, If elected have time for Temple Ewell - I have already done that and as we know the voting is tomorrow,I will be up and out first thing in the morning,all so just to add I am happy to say I will only be in Hos/of one day on
JAN 4TH,it is just a daything for more test,s but they are going to put me to sleep for a few hours,and the new knee will be done afew weeks later. So I am ready for the Parish of River one also now, and that will be on the 20th Jan
2011. - why so secretive vic?
michael
just some basic info i have found.
geoff lymer for the blues(he is well known in alkham i am told).
peter walker
for the reds( i do not know anything about him).
the legendary victor matcham for ukip(no introduction necessary) - Sorry I did not mean to,I did not think of the
others again sorry I should have put their names up aswell just did not think at the time. - back to the caption competition.
bob to the d.h.b. lady "ok which of
us is the best looking, be honest and also bear in mind that i rubber stamp the christmas bonuses later?" - I wonder if the DHB lady has had this thread pointed out
to her. Howard's caption led me to think of one which I've resisted posting in case of causing offence, but it is good! - back to the caption competition.So thats two fish
and chips and one Mc Donald's - Keith Sansum 1,
Why the obsession with who is standing for the Conservitaves?
On this very forum you stated that you were retiring
fom politics to become a PCSO, yet over the last couple of weeks I was thinking that you were the labour candidate, with all the rubbish you have posted.
Now is it true that you have quit the police force so that you can stand in the
May election? Is it further true that you will be standing in Maxton, Priory and Elms Vale?
The last two questions only need a yes or no answer. - Well done to
the Dover Mayor,and the helpers and staff at the Dover town council. - Yes very well said Vic.
This is a great idea. A great thing for the kids so well done The
Mayor. Lets hope lots of people will respond with gift ideas and drop them off at the Town Council Offices just beside the Town Hall. You will be made very welcome there.
AND...
DONT FORGET TO VOTE TODAY !!
Yours truly
is off out shortly, braving and stoutly tackling the elements to mark that cross on a bit of paper. To tell the truth Im not sure what the weather is doing as I havent gawped out as yet, but whatver its doing I will bravely go where many
hath goneth beforeth..or words to that effect.
Ah guys Im not sure caption ideas are much good on this frontpage as it changes every day and a half, or every two days, so the effort is wasted but good in the Forum
section.
DONT FORGET our Forum section, dear reader, dont miss out on all the latest topics being chattered about in there. I dont want to spoil them too much...but there are some very clever guys in there talking
turkey.
Now about that turkey.... - Yes well done to the Mayor .When I took on the post as Vice Chairman of DDC I did request that I got involved in
charity work however that idea was rejected .DDC donot have cash to sponsor events as much as they would like .Tax payers think we are wasting their money .I do however put my hand into my own pocket .There is no such thing as a free
lunch .
Im always availabele for charity events but it has to be looked over by our Chairman first if he cannot attend i can deputise .
Meanwhile I do what I can in my own community .
Yes today is election day and Im shortly off
to Temple Ewell . - Deputise,in the English Oxford Dictionary that means"To stand in" there you are I was right all along.
- On the ball today Vic :-)
- wakileaks as your not brave enough to identify yourself
at least i
do
both answers are no
i will repeatr earlier postings that i wont ever be a candidate again end of
unlike the other 2 i do reply - Hope turnout
is good for you Sue - so, apart from sue, who's going to the count tonight
im not!!!!!!! - surprised it is
tonight, thought it might be held over until tomorrow.
maybe susan can post the full results on her when she returns? - howard
i think its best to get it
all done in one day
also prob wont take long - I dont think the count will take long .No Vic you are not correct .Your understanding of protocl needs a lot to be desired
.You can deputise but Im addressed as Vice Chairman If you ever get elected to DDC to will find out meanwhile see you at the count .
Howard I have my black velvet hat on . - Sue
I don't realy care what colour or any hat you wear, and we have had many a discussion on this at events such as the garden party.
Vic will d no worse than any other councillor on the District council and
whilst i may not agree with his politics/methods i think he would probably liven up a debate.
whether he would ever achieve is anther matter.
But first he has to climb that big step to get elected, and i don't see that any
time soon - Im sure Howard was interested in my head gear ,which was much needed today .Not a nice job on a cold day .I did see several people who knew me .
Im now going to
get warm before I go out again . - It is Ok Keith, I have my very long ladder,but because of my leg at this time,I WILL NEED HELP TO GET TO THE TOP, and I have that as you all
will see tonight.You are never alone with a Matcham about" - Vic
as you say tonight will all be revealed
anything other than last in all 3 seats would
help
but coming last in all 3 is my prediction and the only one brave enough to predict. - I have no prediction to make,I only deal in facts and I do not know who will
win and who will not ,but two of the seats tonight are only for afew weeks anyway,and then yes we do it all again and if the public get wrong tonight,it will soon be put right then.The weather will play a very big part today, But in May
it should be better with a much bigger turn out,if the public are not already fedup with all the voting they have done this year. - 5 months is more than a few
weeks
vic i could easily have predicted labour would win all 3 seats and a biased view.
but iv given an honest opinion on all three
tory to win lydden
labour to win Dover town
alliance/tory to win
castle
vic to come last each election
As mine is the only prediction i look forward to see how close i get - I suspect the turn out will be terrible. I
voted at half two at a main polling station in the middle of Dover, and was told only 65 had voted since 7am. That's less than ten people per hour... - the weather
didn't help, people are not really interested, christmas shopping takes precedence.
i haven't seen a single election poster anywhere. - tower hamlets theres
posters
st rads has a few
buckland 2 - sorry to say susan that when you said black velvet my thoughts drifted to you being a judge sending vic to the
gallows.
might get you short term popularity with the voters for the may elections though. - I must say this Election was not needed apart from the County one
,And I did not want to do it,but it was called so we had to go along with it,But I Would have been happy with the Blues just co-hop one of their members on till MAY,but we will see which way the land lies at this time. By then I hope to
be fit again. - Roger was the only Conservative on DTC so no chance of "the Blues" co-opting someone on, and there's no co-opting at DDC
level. - i thought it was only at parish council level that had co-opting?
- The Town council is aparish
Council Howard, - Yes my mailbox was abused by junk labour leaflets again today.
- just had another red leaflet
through my letterbox.
there is a blizzard raging, someone must be so committed. - you lucky lot.living in outpost aycliffe i have had only ONE labour leaflet
through my letter box,the absence of tory and ukip propagander im disapointed.oh deep joy. - Just got back from voting, very low turnout so far.
- Well it seems that the united wards of the Town didn't vote the Conservative party into the County seat.
- It seems to me that apathy rules!
- As you all know UKIP did not get aseat last night and that is the end of it. But it was the first time in the locals for the
party,and we will build on the work we have done up to now,and are looking forward to next May. I have no more to say,but thank you to the public that did vote for us and turning out in the bad weather. - A gentle reminder the County seat was not up for relection for over two and half years They are not held in the same year as District ,Town and Parishes .It can be confusing
to have more than two elections on the same day .Once the General election was held on the same day and it was very confusing .
Im a Comservative as you all know however it was important to get the county seat represented as
sadly the late Councillor Frayne had been unwell for many months and not attended meetings .
I covered his ward at District level.He was the only Conservative on the Town Council so another Conservative could not cover for him
.
It was a very poor turn out .Generaly people are not really interested in politics .
I did wonder as I got ready yesterday to do my stint at the polling station why do I do it .
It was a long day ,attending the count as
well.
The Temple Ewell result was good considering the low turn out
Im glad that the people counting the vote are so good ,very well supervised .
Vic did not even watch busy talking .
The Scrutiners are there for a reason .My
eyes very rarely leave to stray from the job in hand .,otherwise you might as well stay at home ..
Those that voted had their say so perhaps until next May we can resume to normality .What ever that is .. - Just to add what the standin CHAIRMAN of the D.D.C. is saying,I was one of the very first in the townhall ,I was in the main hall at the count,I had a person keeping a eye
open.there is no need to keep walking around the tables why would I want to do that? Would it mean I would get more votes .No to that,I think the staff at DDC work well at counting the votes and they can add up ,they do not need us
standing behind them watching. I am very happy knowing that it was our vote that stop them geting in at the County.I will be standing again in May. - Vic ,
You just
dont get it do you .There is a reason to watch what is going on .You have ignored my advice before and I exoect you will contuinue to do so .
I shall ignore your last two lines .
There is no need to be in the hall until the ballot
boxes arrive .I think you would be keen to watch if its a recount . - Yes the vote was closer than expected and Pat Sherratt( Conservative) did well for a first time
candidate, and gave Gordon a run for his money.
Vic I would have thought UKIP had more in common with the Tories as they are basically the lovechild of Conservatism, born out of people who were dis- enchanted with the Tory policy
on the EU.
So if its true that your vote did keep the Conservatives out why are you happy with that? as UKIP are closer to Conservative thinking than Labour thinking.
Conservatives won the DDC seat for Temple Ewell and
Lydden.
The Dover Alliance won the DTC seat for Castle Ward. - Paul, UKIP stands as a party on its own rights,and our own policys, unlike the blues who need
the Lem/Dem to help them.As for myself.I am not left or right.Having one more red at the county means nothing because of the strong hold that the blues have over the county at this time. - vic
this was a voice for people to re elect a tory county cllr
but the public didnt.
instead they were telling us on the doorstep, we are out to get the tory
out.
UKIP didnt do badly,m but still a fair way behind and a lot of convincing to be done.
the lib dem collapse prob helped labour
but all in all it was the labour party machine that was out for the full four weeks
where we rarely came across other parties, and only spotted the tory candidate once in the distance as he ran away.
never saw the lib dem at any part of election and there leader said they would get humiliated and he got that one
right.
didn't see vic, nor did i ever get a leaflet and sad the people in my road didn't get a leaflet from ukip, tories, or lib dems.
but got 2 labour ones
labour on the way
back - Our funds are not so big as the two main partys,I was asked if I needed up to 20.000 leaflets,I said "No" to that because at this time I do not have the members to
take them all round,and also we go to the polls again in May by then the weather will be geting better I will have more helpers going round,And even at this time with a very low turnout the 20.000leaflets I could have had ,would have
been a wast of funds.I am happy with what happen last night,Yes it would have been great to pick up a seat,but it was not to be.I am just off to feed the ponys - Maybe
we can resume to normality .What ever that is
"I'm a Conservative I covered his ward I did wonder as, I got ready why do I do it "
That was Mrs Nicholas,
This is Vic
"I was one of the very first in the town
hall ,I was in the main hall I had a person keeping a eye out,why would I want to do that? Would it mean I would get more votes I think the staff at DDC I am very happy I will be standing again in May."
As you all can see
its back to Normality its all I or Me. If these people want to serve this town just get on with it and don't keep wanting praise.if you are all passionate about what you do and I'm sure you are why not all stand together and get the
things you want for your town and we the people would support you 100% And Mrs Nicholas and Mr Matcham... I'm not being Rude here its the way most people see local Politics hence the low turn out last night, not the weather. - Sue and Vic are the forums answer to Tom and Jerry, they never stop baiting each other.
- great fun though martin,
much the same with barry and keith. - Well Mr Taylor here we go again .Its not a case of me me .Im just stating the obvious most people are not interested in politics
however it is nice when you sit at a polling station for someone to say Thank You Mrs Nicholas for sorting it out !!!
I do get on with it and If you knew me better you would know that .
I rest my case . - Some good news just got to myself by email The Kent Junior Chess Association is to hold a tournament in Dover at the Dover College, on May 14th as you know I asked Mr Jones the
headmaster of the collage that I would like to try and get a Chess Tournament to the Town and that is now going to happen.
The Tournmant Should attract about 100players and their parents and they are in Dover for the whole day so
alot of them at times will be in the Town centre,Also the Tournment will be open to any junior player in our District and all schools. They will allow late entries on the day of the tournament although they encourage players to sign up
in advance using their on line facility or entry forms from their web site,.
This Tournament is astep up for the one that I helped put on some years ago. I am very happy that this one is now to go ahead. If you know players or
family who would like to play just go on to their webb site or email myself.And a very big thank you to Mr Jones who has been agreat help in puting this on with me. Thank you Vic Matcham - A big waste of money sadly yesterday was .
- Howard said "great fun though martin, much the
same with barry and keith."
The Sue Vic vendetta has the potential for a 70s style sit com, perhaps Yootha Joyce and Arthur Mullard in the lead roles ;-)
- alan
only those 2 speak that way all the time - well done vic reference chess
see you don't have to be on councils to
achieve
- Sue
What was the turnout in our area?
Will our man be holding surgeries in the parish hall? - I dont know the percentage of turnout but it was low .You will have read the number of votes cast
I will ask if he is going to hold surgeries .
Sue - i don't see a need for surgeries by district councillors.
the full name address and telephone number of each councillor is available publicly.
a quick telephone call
could arrange an appointment.
3 a.m. is my suggested time to ring michael. - Howard
Strange reply why 3am? - Surely not to deliberately disturb the sleep of a hardworking councillor for mischievous purposes because he's not of your preferred political
persuasion? - good idea howard i might give my local labour counciler a ring about broken lights in my street.
- Aycliffe Bins and reclining have not been collected to day but bin lorry was up here at 6.40 am bags are to be out by 7 am so if we had put them out a 6.55 it would have been no good so now we have to wait till after
Christmas, what are we paying taxes for when you ring the council they are living on another planet.they say recycle are running late its now 9 pm and still they have not come she also said your bags have to be out by 7 am I know that my
dear but your lorry came at 6.40 am I don't know about that I was still in bed at that time she said. And other residents still have there bags out waiting collection. - alan
i always put mine outside the night before collection, much safer that way.
the collection operatives do the best job they can but they can never guarantee times. - If we put ours out at night the cats in the area break open the bags then the bin men leave it.have tried spraying the bags with pepper and all sorts but they still get in
and the gulls. - Alan your local district councillor is Jim Hood you can get his contact details at
www.dover.gov.uk/council__democracy/councillors,_decisions__meeti/councillors/councillor_george_j_jim_hood.aspx remember that they work for you - alan,slmple
solution stick rubbish in boot of car then procead to tip to dump,hence no rubbish over christmass.simples. - Some people do not have a car, just phone Sita or DDC
much easier. - stewart,have you tried a one sided conversation lately.
- Brian
would like to explain your last
comments - Well it is all over now,but May is next and we at UKIP are already geting ready for this one,we will be puting up in more wards,we will have more members going round
than last time. And any county seat that comes up beween now and 2013 UkIP will take part.We in Dover done well in the county seat on the 16th with 400votes+ and we will build on that,so blues and the reds need to take note of that.
Thank you. Vic M - You certainly gave the oul Libdems a hammering Vic so well done there. They anyway have the air of the black death about them recently and hardly
fought the seat. A kind of fatalistic gloom has set in as you hardly ever see a news bulleting that says something good about them.
Maybe it was the Libdem vote that went your way rather than the Conservative
vote. - The blues know as we do if we had not been standing they could today have one more seat in the county hall,and it would be the reds saying what we both
know now.If we had put all our leaftits 5000 of them just for the county seat, we might have push one of the top ones out. - UKIP has become one of the three main parties
in Dover. It is possible that Dover is forefront nationwide with this result.
There must have been a general awareness of the by-election, as every household would have received a polling card and one or more party leaflets.
There probably is a large degree of apathy, but it takes time for people to change from voting for one party to voting for another.
As the media has a tendency to cover only three parties at an election, we may assume that
UKIP will be one of them from now on. - Alexander kid yourself not I got very cold at the polling station.People were not prepared to turn out .Can you blame them Rest
assured come the spring the blues will be out in full force .
Did you man the Polling stations ?? - Well said Alex,and what you said is happing right now Mr Farage has just
phoned me and said well done and the news what happen in Dover with the county seat is going out Nationwide,there is a county seat coming up at New Romney and we are going for it now. - these are definitely changing times, paul posts below that maybe disaffected yellow voters boosted the ukip vote.
the yellows and ukip are miles apart in policies but
sometimes people like to register a protest against the big parties.
we shall have to see a few more results to make a general judgement, but it is looking like vic and alex's party are aiming to be the third force. - Sue, Thursday was a fine day, there was no ice or snow about, just a few spells of rain. Unfortunately UKIP did not put any posters up, and the leaflets were limited in
number.
Labour and the Tories had a full coverage of leafleting, so it is evident that both these parties failed to prove that together they have the backing of the majority, with a 16 per cent turn-out. More and more people see
them as the same party, and consider UKIP the only alternative.
Not to vote for the two main parties is the first step, the second is to vote for the alternative. - kieth,in a word "no".its not fpr the public domain thats all im saying so dont press me for an answer.
- Alex,there is no need to man the polling stations, like
there is no need to "Come dancing around the Tables at the count.If the standin chairman of the D.D.C. wishs to do that like some Ann Wickercome thats up to her(Spelling might not be right with that name)By the time the public get to
the polling Station they know who they are going to vote for,And at the count they have already done it,so in both cases there is no need for what some of them do. - i
think that the reason parties person the polling stations is so that they know who has voted.
the cards are collated and the known supporters that have not voted can expect a knock on their door during the evening.
this
applies more to the traditional parties. - Well I won't get a knock on my door, because I voted. But it is interesting that Dover has massively abandoned the polling
station on such a fine day. Sue will have to find some better arguments than blaming the weather.
It may well have to do with essential local issues that many people feel they have not been represented in by the governing local
Councillors, and thus gave their response! - Howard you are correct .If you canvass then you know where your support lies .I have on many occassions found someone had
forgotten .to vote .
Vic its not dancing a most serious job .You are there for a reason .
- It took 4 hours to get from Folkstone to Dover. No
gritters on M 20 or A 20... lorries could not get up the hill to Dover and from Dover one of the County's main roads to one of the main docks in Kent, and no grit and then you wonder why we don't turn out to vote, they are all bloody
useless.
And i don't mean the men working in these bad conditions, its there bosses and leaders. Give the job to a woman then watch things get done. - Ukip and its
acolytes are wonderful.
Not only are they manipulating statistics to say how wonderful their results were when in fact they came last both in District and Town elections. The blip on the County elections would have occurred if BNP
had been there instead of Ukip. They both got roughly the same number of votes at the general election.
They now are rewriting history.
Thursday was a really miserable day, it was overcast, dreary, raining or drizzeling most of
the time and uncomfortably cold.
I now I was one of those that went out to vote.
Personally I think it shows a level of interest in the system for electoral support at the ballot box. Rather than I've done my bit so let the public
do their worst. - alan,highways where gritting pavements at 10.00am this morning,allso gritters on aycliffe estate at 7 am this
morning. - Brian
how stupid to make such a comment on a public forum
then decide itrs not public - no
gritting up here, this is evidenced by the tyre marks of two cars that lost control and swerved all over the road. - I was working at Age Concern shop this morning
from 9.00 until 1.00 I saw no sign of gritting to roads or pavement in that time. There really can be no excuse this time. - Not seen a gritter in the last few days on Buckland
Ave - Not seen a gritter in deal either. Still the A256 from deal to sandwich is one of the last A roads to get done
Trevor - Took me an hour to get from The Eagle to Crabble Hill traffic lights this afternoon because of cars struggling to pull away from there and at the roundabout at the bottom of Whitfield hill. There were several cars sideways on
Castle hill while I was going up so I came back round Victoria Park and Laureston in time to see a Jag slide into a van and a car at the traffic lights. Rural areas are a nightmare but the tractors are out around Lydden.
Most
amazing sight of the day, a pushbike being pulled through the town centre by a team of 4 huskies, if my pic of them is any good I'll post it later. - good to see the port
getting prepared and holding all the vital essentials that desperate travellers will need.
so important that people take away a good memory of dover. - jan,they were gritting around the bus stops in pencester road.
the gritter at aycliffe at 07 00 hours am gritted the bus route. - UNITARY
AUTHORITIES
We have had many an article on the above, although i'm not satisfied with all the answers, we look to be in a position where councils will be forced down this road.
On the one hand mr pickles tells us of there
being to many councillors and to many high paid senior staff.
on the other hand govt spending to councils is to reduce by up to 43%.
The future does look grim, not just next year but years to
come.
- Brian that's not much good to the rest of the town, must have been Stagecoach I should think.
- jan,it was a highways lorry with two highway workers doing the chucking etc.
- Keith, the only way forwards in view of the incoming spending cuts (up to 43% over
the next four years) is for Parliament to introduce new laws that allow each County to increase its own local tax income.
One good idea for Kent is to have a landing tax at ports, including the Channel Tunnel, and to apply road
tax on lorries from abroad that transit Kent's roads.
The Dover Mercury brought this news up on the headlines last week, and it is a proposal from Kent County Council with specific reference to Dover
Port. - Alexander
You have an idea, but it's not the only way forward.
as iv stated before today we dont need 3 councils or all the senior officers pay that
goes with them
so there are other ideas in the pipeline - As many of you know the old Woolworth's shops were taken over by a chain of 99p stores, these stores contacted
each council in Kent asking if they could come to Kent towns and guess what only Dover said no, we don't want that sort of shop in this town. I have been to the Folkstone one and there are some great bargains to be had so thank you
Dover for telling us what we can and cant have.And this is from the owner himself so really dover dose not want us to shop locally unless it can pick the shops we can shop in, why do we need two peacocks no one uses the one in the co op
so another good reason to shop else were. - Realist, Thursday was a wonderful day, above 0 degrees, a fine day to go and vote. This is a realistic interpretation of
reality. - To whom it may concern - I am not related to "Another realist" and live in Dover not in "Another realist's" reality.
Yours sincerely Arfur. - A suggestion that I’m sure “Another realist” (no relation) could possibly endorse that might improve the forum.
How about setting up some alternate realities where
people could feel more comfortable. Let’s have a “Pure Politics” page where all threads are politically populated. A member’s page. Politics outside this page would lead to electronic sin binning of the culprit. (Very useful before next
year’s elections)
Another page could be “Help from the Forum” an open page where people could seek support and advice from other users. (Would mean a bit more work for the Editor moderating)
This would then leave the Latest
News page as just that and for members.
Arfur - Sue, the Dover by-election has gone world-wide, and has just been picked up by the Indiatimes on the Web!
- There's not a trace of gritting down on the seafront either guys. People live here and businesses operate from here, including Dover's Biggest Hotel.. the Premier Inn,
but its all totally ignored. I have added a picture taken last night to the Cruise Liner Queen Victoria thread in the Forum...and you can see what I mean. - Frozen wastes out here in sheepland, no gritting last night but I haven't been on to the main road yet.
Just had our paper delivered on time, by tractor! Well done Delivered
News - Keith, I can't see the senior officers and councillors
agreeing with your idea.
As for senior officers, they have an important role in assuring that the work of the councillors runs according to Constitution, so I can't see them losing their job or even being reduced in number.
To
place more work on each individual senioe officer would also be unwise, and remember that they have to constantly keep update with any new amendments from Parliament and with all that is going on in their respective
Council. - Arfur the realist, politics have a lot to do with economy and economic situations, and also with laws, so it would be hard to exclude politics from everyday life
and discussions.
- Alan , I really believe you have a fixation about local authorities in your area.
As far I know, no council can stop a retail outlet of
same category taking over an existing retail outlet and operating from it.
It is a straightforward private sector business arrangement.
As to whether there was a retail outlet of the size, type and location that Poundland
require might be a different story.
They fitted very nicely into the old Woolworth site in Deal and are operating very succesfully, without any need to ask for a Planning consent.
Presumably the old Woolworth site in
Dover was/is occupied so was/is unavailable. Good news for Dover surely. That was not the case in Deal.
Of course Deal is the same Planning authority as Dover,so your theory does not necessarily hold up.
You provide me with
the formal evidence and I will take up your issue. - All Stagecoach Bus Routes and National Express coaches servicing the South East of Kent were
suspended at 7pm yesterday, which was a pain as the gritters had done their job and all the main roads were open but, hey hum. - As you all know I have been saying for
years that Dover does not have agood planning dept .also you only have to aske any Developer who has try to change things in Dover and they will tell you the same,just look at the developments we was going to get over the last 20years
and we do not have one of them ,The paper Mill, The old army Bks, St James St, Townwall St, and so on.And there has been £1000s of pounds already done in Studys and plans ,and all that funding was wasted and it is still going on
today,heads need to roll in that planning dept.before we will see any change to our town,its the old school tie thing again. - mr matcham
trouble is there are so
many rules from central goverment that planners have to adhere it to they are frightened of doing aything positive in case they overstep the mark.
downing street dave has promised to change this and encourage localities to make
decisions based on their needs. - Alexander
at the moment we have councils which is costing us a small fortune.
with this comes many top tier officers
earning(sorry getting) over £100,000
in todays climarte we dont need 3 councils
- Mr Mcsweeney,I do not agree with that last post of yours. What I said as been
going on for years. And just look at the towns around us, are they like Dover standing still, "NO" tHEY are moving on and working at geting their towns better,we do not see that at Dover just Flats and more flats. - VIC/HOWARD
Howard is correct on the restrictions, but that said the town has never been for years and years the look ahead council.
The council(planners)look for
reasons why they can't do something as a starting point, rather than how they can help to make it happen.
- Alexander,
I think what you have said is correct, but
only from a minimalist perspective. Politics does not invade normal discussions to the level it does on this forum, particularly recently. Simple discussions here often seem to be diverted into political jousting sessions and point
scoring, loosing the theme of the original post.
I have not suggested that politics should not be part of general discussions, just where there are Politics with a capital P it occurs in it’s own environment. Where people with the
knowledge and experience can discuss things without impacting on others less inclined.
Not many of us are interested in the politics of a councillor if we want something done and help from the council. Nor are many of us
interested in being lectured on the political history behind many things. Although that may be interesting to some.
It was only a suggestion and light hearted one at that.
Arfur - just further to vic's posting
hythe which is a very small place has regular visits from a german market stall holders and well supported by the local community.
is
this somthing Dover wants/has tried?
when events are put on they get supported like the regatta
but the don't happen that often - Mr. Realist, Dover Forum is always
updated on the weather-forcast, and gives live coverage of snow-falls and resulting untransitable roads.
For some reason, the snow is always some-one's fault.
The easiest target is DDC; even the by-election turnout was blamed
on the weather, although it didn't snow... - Alexander,
Unsure about your post as in my last one I agreed with you. Was it an attempt at sarcasm or simply a snide
way of trying to stop others inputting to the forum by belittling them? By the way it didn’t, just devalues anything else you post.
I leave the Editor to consider my suggestion regarding forum development.
Arfur - Vic,. you continually knock the Planning Department, but nearly everything you mention - Paper Mill, Connaught Battacks, DTIZ - all need COMMERCIAL money or were decisions
taken 50 years ago. Planning can only facilitate they can't do anything without money !! - Mr Scotchie.Thank you for your post Yes some were like St James
st,Townwall st they were the big ones and there were and still are a lot of smaller ones that got turn down, - vic,all those sites you mention will rot and cruble before
anything worth while is put in there place. - They are already doing that,and it is very sad to see not only for us but also vistors to the Town.
- yes vic the whole town is an eyesore.
- No it isn't Brian, not at all.
Like Scotchie says, nothing works
without money; DDC's planning officers make sure that planning laws are upheld. I (and other Planning Committee members) don't always agree wth the planning officers decisions or recommendations, that's why we have a Planning
Commitee.
Much of the slowness of any development has very little to do with DDC, much more to do with landowners and developers.
A very important point that came out of the last presentation by Bond City Ltd was that their
consultants and architects had said we should have a a "good" development, rather than a quick one and althoughh I don't know how long it took for the Burlington House complex to be agreed, we certainly don't want another eyesore
that blights the Town and takes decades to get rid of - do we ?
Roger - roger,i see where you are coming from,but the whole town from the seafront
through burlington house to the paper mill needs cleaning up.along with the empty shops open for trading.
- I did say the planning Dept,not the planning Comittee,but on
saying that the planning committee could over rule the planning dept,and there are times when they should have done that,Over Folkestone Rd is just one of them.I did talk at the time for 3mins to the commitee and any public that was
there about that,but it still went ahead.There again can all the members read the drawings that are put in front of them? if not then why are they siting on the planning commitee? - Brian, please stop running the town down, I certainly hope there are no potential investors or visitors reading your posts.
The town is nowhere near as bad as you
paint it. Yes, there are areas that need improving the same as any town or city in this country and very few look their best in the winter. - Yes you are right in what you
say,there are new shops opening,and I also think that 2011 is the year that Dover towncentre will see even more shops going ahead,with one big retailer moving in ,once you get one of the big ones in others will follow. - Brian and Alan could moan for England, lighten up a bit chaps it is the season of goodwill.
- Politics on a
political page only.
It seems Alexanders attack on my proposal, then me, was not constructive debate after all. It was purely an attempt to protect his own ability to post unsolicited and it appears unwanted (by the majority)
political propaganda on any thread he chooses.
Visitors are advised to look at the Forum: for latest news, dodgy characters thread. Thank you Alexander(D) this is just the behaviour I was try to describe. Case
proved.
Arfur - Am I alone in thinking it's great the sun's out and snow going??
- Well there you are
Stephen...I was inspired by your comment to put up the colourful early morning picture above, lots of sunshine in that one, and as an added bonus see the Heron lurking bottom
right. - PaulB
The picture look's lovely but let's hope the sun shines brightly and melts all the snow
away - great picture of pencester there, was down there about an hour ago, treacherous conditions.
as far as i know the brown trout is the only fish in the dour, one
less now. - Kearsney abbey looks lovely at the moment, but the suns out
- Beautiful
photo. - WOW!!!!How lucky to get the heron, that could be one for the calendar if it ever gets off the ground.
- Nice picture PaulB. I was there about 10.30 this morning taking an image from the footbridge of the same view.
- I would like to draw the Forums attention to an article by "Dimitri Alexander" on the attached link.
www.suite101.com/content/ukip-becoming-britains-third-party-
a322603
This is a UKIP publication that quotes the Dover Forum as a source (along with Vic Matcham) for promoting UKIPs success in the Dover elections.
I am suprised that the Forum is being used as a party political tool to
validate what is a very unrepresentative view of its members. It does reinforce my proposal that politics with a capital P be restricted to it's own page on the forum. - Great picture PaulB, sadly the snow came down again last night and covered everywhere so it's not going yet and with more forecast for Wednesday and Thursday, not an easy time to get around for many people.
We were at a
DDC Joint Transportation Advisory Board meeting last night and it came down quite heavy at Whitfield.
Some good questions raised about KCC's snow clearance schemes; different people (Councillors) were asking for attention for
their particular patches and I asked about pavement clearance for Folkestone Road and around the Clarendons so the buses could carry on - I understand that all requests from everybody will be respected and included.
There was a
piece about encouraging people to clear their fronts outside their houses and not being prosecuted - it is on the KCC website.
Not sure when they will be included, probably not today, but they are doing their
best.
Roger - Thanks guys for the comments re the picture. Will at the current plan have another one or two over Christmas. Have added another picture of the
Heron above in the Tits thread in our Forum, complete with fish in his bill. There are very good pictures all round on that thread from all the guys and worth a look...all birds of course, and of the feathered variety.
I wonder
Roger if the weather is badly hitting the shops in central Dover. Ive bought all my shopping here as I cant get any where else, but I live here right in the centre of town, but people from the surrounding areas will find it hard to get
into Dover. They might find it easier to get to the big complexes as the main roads have been gritted. Could badly hit the shops in Dover...very few out and about yesterday morning in central Dover.
Realist we do have lots of
politics interspersed with the general topics. But its not really a problem generally, although some can find it irritating at times. We are always happy to try and have a political balance where possible....so we welcome correspondence
from all parties. We do currently have a political page..see Barry's Blog, although that is politics from the Conservative viewpoint, although guys can go on there and argue the
toss. - I live in the town about 5mins from Morrisons but am housebound because I feel unsafe on the pavements I can't even walk in the road as that is just as
bad.
Thank goodness I had bought all my Christmas presents before the snow came and am lucky my daughter is doing my shopping, what about those who are not so lucky. - Jan H, If you need anything that requires transport you can call me on 205347
- Hey guys
I am alive but I am not going to be open til after christmas
now because of the snow making the roads a risk to not only my customers but myself!!
I have a shovel in the car for when i am in the shop but for the moment I am just not venturing that far at all.
Might make it
thursday.... maybe! - Thank you Alan for the kind thought it is very kind of you. My daughter who lives in the same house has been
running errands for me.
It is just so frustrating that in this modern world everything comes to a halt because of a couple of inches of snow. - jan, exactly nocouncil
staff to clear raths etc,office stuck at home saying they cant get in because of half inch of snow.cant get the staff these days can you.lol. - A 20 at a complete stand still
fire engines going towards folkstone with police and ambulance dover side not moving any one know whats going on. - No idea Alan.
If there's a problem on that
stretch of the A20, they divert everything down the Folkestone Road and I haven't heard/felt anything (you can feel the rumble of the lorries).
Roger - on the
front page headline.
i'm sure Labour must be over the moon and Nigel who at present holds the other seat and is seen as unpopular will be worrying if he can hold the seat at the next election.
Gordon is a good friend of
mine and so i did goout with him many times, but there was a serious lack of other parties out and about in the 4 week period.
in past elections we used to always bump into each other and have a chat.
but this time i saw
stuart a couple of times, i obviously saw the tory candidate once in the distance before he scarpered off.
didn't ever see the lib dems bit then mr meridith admitted they have no money and not wasting it when they know they are
about to lose heavily(says a lot for there candidate)
and didnt ever see vic, although did see his leaflet from time to time.
never did get one in eaves road, and the residents there will have to wait till may i presume
as ukip couldnt be bothered with them.
The tories hoped for a low turnout they then could blame low turnout, but also hoped that only there supporters would turn out.
not realising how peed off people are.
I'M pleased
for Gordon who gives 100% wherever he is, and apart from his council work and being involved with him in our community club he works hard for those within the club.
I'm sure like UKIP this will give the Labour party heart for all
future elections that Labour is on the way back - WE ARE IN A PICKLE
Mr.Eric Pickles Community Secretary is together with our District Councils and all of
us in a `Pickle`.
Mr Pickle has legislation in place restricting the progression to forming Unitary Councils.However he instructs our separate Councils to perform as Unitary Councils without additional funds and to continue with the
enormous burden of the overheads of each of their expensive individual executive/management teams.
It is accepted by everybody that the economies of scale to be enjoyed under an East Kent Council with one executive team
and shared services would save millions of pounds thereby drastically reducing any cuts to services and also resulting in lowering our Council Tax.
Mr.Pickles appears to want his cake and eat it without paying for it.
Mr.Pickles must amend the legislation obstructing a sensible/viable solution which will help all of us - Keith that is not true your Road just got over looked,but
you can take it from me next time it will not,I am standing in your ward and all households will get done.I told you before I only asked for 5000 to be printed as we are doing it all again in May.I did get it wrong by puting leaflets in
what was a strong blue seat ,What I should have done was just the county one.There will 2 or even 3 going for your ward so you will not be missed again. - PLEASE can we
have our Christmas picture of Dover back so much more interesting, we see enough pictures of politicians the rest of the year. - vic
nice that you accept an error was
made.
you cant disown people till may in the hope they will vote for you.
You know my opinion of your standing in so many seats, but also standing at all, where as you know i feel your health/family should come
first.
but hey thats your choice.
priory maxton has never suffered from a lack of parties standing
and im sure will continue to do so.
I'm sure labour and the tories will continue to try to win the 3 seats in
what has always been a very marginal seat held by both parties and even under old boundaries the lib dems havce held seats.
but sadly over past 10 years lib dems have all but dssappeared as serious contenders.
so to UKIP i feel
the local people still need convincing
1; is UKIP ready for local politics
2; vic has been rejected heavily before in the area(that's no disrepect to vic, as iv got to know him over past few years)
the elections are going
to be interesting;
some seats to watch out for that may change hands at next election;
middle deal
north deal
eastry
maxton, priory elms vale
whitfield
let me explain why
i think some of the
3 seats in both middle deal and north deal will return to labour
eastry also one of the 2 seats might go back to labour
then theres whitfield will the lib dems hold those 2 seats?
then theres presently 2
labour and tory in maxton'e vale
those 3 seats are marginal and could go to any party(well one of the 2 major parties i meant) no disrespect to other parties
the other ward that might create a surprize presently very very
marginal seat
i think there could be one of the two seats shock there
and indy reg hnsell get in
going to be interesting to see how it all pans out - I dont
mind looking at Gordan .Im not a fan of the dressing up brigade but he always cuts a dash in his red robes - jan
bet if picture was of a tory it would have been
ok. - Jan there is a sprig of holly, is that not festive enough ;-)
- Well indeed no expense spared bringing you
that sprig of holly Martin lol! and Jan glad you liked the previous pictures but as ever we do allsorts of different items on the frontpage in the name of variety being the spice of life kind of thing, and we change it all or add to it
every day or every couple of days. - paulb
you are doing a fantastic job all the year round
well done boyo
keep it up(the forum i mean
lol) - Speaking of Gordon, my money's on him to be next Mayor. Well it must be his turn again.
- No Keith
it would not, I liked the seasonal picture of the castle, so much better than any politician of any colour, size, age or shape come to that.LOL - Terry
you do so well with
your
NON POLITICAL poistings
lol - Not political Keith, logical.
- strange you only mention
gordon
and you have been seen to bew involved in having a go at other labour individuals'
all fun though i suppose
me, i like to up front on me politics - miss jones for the 3rd time.
- don't think that has happened before brian, she may not want to anyway.
a very time consuming role being mayor. - As I said Keith, a logical guess and non-political. If I do "have a go" at people it's about what they do outside of politics.
- terry
i will wait to see your commnts on other party clrs then - reg hansell made an interesting post early this morning but
there were so many posts immediately after it that many readers would have missed it.
you have to scroll down approx 18 posts to discover it. - howard
yes
reg makes a valued point and if our political lea
ders believe in more effientcy they would look at a unitary option
but also put pressure on mr branson(so i mean pickles) to allow councils to take that route if they so
wish.
am i the only brave one to predict results?
below i listed the seats to watch anyone think differenty? - keith
reg forgot to add that mr pickles
has told councils to spend their reserves, totally alien to blue thinking.
when he was leader of a city council "oop north" he was known for being prudent and always had a reserve ready for unexpected events. - Keith – The subject of Gordon was raised (not by me) and I had noted that he had only been Mayor once, 10 years ago.
Some other Mayors have had a second, not
necessarily sequential, time in the post. Gordon is a more likely candidate than some of the other newer councillors so I thought that it was a fair chance that he would be elected again. Like I said, it was logical and had nothing to
do with “having a go” at anyone, least of all Gordon. In some ways it was a compliment.
Why do you consistently read into whatever anyone says something that isn’t there?
I have no comments to make on any other councillors
be they red, blue, pink, yellow or multicoloured. Except perhaps that Sue does a bloody good job.
- interesting that you mention "multicoloured"
terry.
i know that ken looks the part in the bling, but i thought you had to be a town councillor to get the part. - I was thinking Alliance Howard.
- terry
you may be mistaken here, keith and john suggest that the colour of the alliance is blue. - No it is Black and white with lots of Blue I suppose,colour change in May!
- Speaking with mr precious he tells me when mr hannant leaves the alliance to stand for the
tories in may the alliance will continue without him - For oner moment there I thought Terry was referring to me then I realised Im District .
It was a Town Councillor Sue
.
I will try harder next year . - keith
you were right all along then!!
i have to hand it to you, your feel on local issues always seems to be
correct.
without wanting to seem crass and grasping, do you have any sort of advice on national lottery numbers? - howard
go get yer self a glass of
wine
sit back
put yer feet up
relax
chill
and have a lovely evening
lol - howard,just for you the winning nubers are 1,3,5,7,9,11.good luck.
- brian does
have magic powers then????? lol - whats the record number of users on here you have seen whilst on line mine is 141
- at least this time people will go away with a good memory of dover, the buses are running them from the station to the port.
the port has stocked up on all the essentials that the desperate traveller needs and other
than the first night, nobody is being held up on their onward journey. - Excellent response from all involved at the Port, serving the public in the true spirit of a
Trust Port. - Martin, I would say present management & staff operation rather than its status.
Second time this year they have delivered when UK transport systems shuts
down.
This is down to systems and personnel including the ferry industry. - we should congratulate the port/ferry industry for its performnce
during the bad weather - The way the Port always rises to the occasion is in my opinion borne out of the Trust culture that the Docks was built on, and long may it continue.
- Martin
i used to use the ferries a lot not been able to so much lately
you to love travelling on them - Being Islanders Keith it is in our blood to be drawn to the sea.
- I had a chuckle at Martin's last comment, could have been the caption for the picture of Vic
above. - "I must go down to the sea again,
to the sea and the lonely sky.
I left my shoes and socks there,
I wonder if they're dry?"
Spike
Milligan (after someone else) - Does any one know the phone No for Dover Express. I was asked to Be Santa At Riverside But when I went to see what time i was needed I
was told they had a Santa so much for Volunteering. - Alan I think Kathy B has sorted all this out for you, see the Local Papers thread in the Forum. Your version of
Santa is back in demand. Hope it all goes well. - That's Riverside for you.LOL I hope all sorted out for you OK and thankyou for volunteering.
- i don't know who santa was, but when i chatted to him i discovered that it was definitely not alan.
- he
promised me a ot last year but didn't get it
iv sent him another letter in the hope,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
- There were 2 Santa's of course one
wasn't the real one but Alan was the real one and I said hello to him,wanted to make sure I got my Christmas prezzies,if I don't this year I am going up to Aycliife to find him! - A very Merry Christmas to you all, the Forum is something special and a credit to those who run it, long may it continue.
- Who said Senior Citizens don't have fun I
have just spent the Afternoon with some really nice people at riverside at there Christmas Party, meet some old friends did not know they went there had a greet time.the staff are so lovely and welcoming ,meet members from our forum
great chaps, our town Mayors were there working so hard making sure everyone had a good time. I would like to thank you to My Chef Elf for all her hard work. My Apprentice Santa he was Good and now something I have always wanted to say
your fired,But seriously they were all great the staff and helpers who gave there time ,the three young ladies that sang were marvelous and had many in tears thank you for such wonderful singing. and A big thank you to the people of
Dover who gave so many presents your generosity was overwhelming. This is a Christmas I will remember for a very long Time the true meaning of Christmas you all should be very proud of yourself s Thank You All Santa A. - logged in yesterday thought it was hallowen again.lol
- James Pond ?
- could be his brother brooke bond?.
- Or Basildon Bond
Happy Christmas everyone - James Bond and all who are doing the Boxing Day Swim tomorrow it's going to be cold, good luck.
- i think that
some of the male swimmers will be singing soprano for some time after they leave the water. - going to be bloody cold round the
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, - a very large tot of navy rum before and after will keep them warm.
- Brian, have you read David Niven's autobiography, he tells how to warm up frozen parts with brandy without drinking it!
(ps spent part of his army service in the barracks on the Western Heights) - ray,cheers for the snippit of info,but would like to know more of his stay in dover.
- I see Vic is back .
- We have just got back from Stoke,We came back so I could take part in to days dip,I am sorry but I will not be going in after all ,and this the first time I have missed it now for
some years,but I have not been well over the last week and also I am going to have day surgery on my leg next Monday then about two weeks after that I go in again for the operation.So I am not happy about missing it ,but sorry its a
no.no. this year. But I hope that all the ones doing it and watching it will have agreat time and please if you are watching please put your hand it you pocket and gave afew bob. Thank you. Vic Matcham .I do feel I have let the sidedown
but I do not have a choice. - Sensible decision Vic, health must take priority.
- not often vic can be accused
of being sensible, today is one of them. - VIC
You know i have always said your heath and wife far more
important - Sorry lads,After thinking about it again,I have to go in but it will not be for long,but what will i have on?I MUST DO IT.
- vic will never be a decision maker lol
- vic,you dont have to people will
understand. - Looked like a Shepherd certainly not a wise man .
- vic knows my opinion
iv told him to
his face
- Well it all went off very well and great to see all the public there watching this is turning out to be one of the major events in Dover of the years,and also
good for the local pubs with the public going in after for a drink,I am already thinking what I will be puting on next year,because I was not planning to go in today I had to make up my mind at the last min,but it was not that
bad,. - i rest my case lol
- With the greatest respect Mr Matcham, I think you are mad. LOL
- janh,agree with you,they are mad all of them.lol
- great picture of georgie there, only seen her the once, she didn't
get around to biting me. - Oh my that is a great picture there LOL!!! sorry John of Georgie,but well done to all them brave souls who went into a very cold sea
although the sun was shining all good fun for those of us watching. - Ah now John looks very well too..very noble cavalier features there and very proud of his little
dog Georgie. Glad he sauntered by as it made a great shot. Good to see you John.
Tip...hit the F11 button on your keyboard to see the pictures at their best. They are uploaded in fairly large size. I was as they say.. givin it
large!! - Well done to them all mad is one word that springs to mind, Brian did you lend out your mankini? lol
- I did not know about the f11 key thank you for that and again for the great photos of the event, Lets hope even more turn out next year and the costumes are geting better and better
I do like the bones one,and some did have a mankini on ,I might wear one next year. - Vic looks like Moses parting the Red Sea lol! I love the skeleton. Well done guys
and girls braving that ccccold, brrrr! - Dear Paul/B why cant we post video pictures and audio and let them stay in place I Posted a photo early today and its gone
can we please have something in place for the new year. - Money is the reason that we dont have every facility Alan...
but any photo placed currently on the forum
stays in place providing the person posting the picture doesnt delete it from his own upload box, but generally everybody does it correctly so generally there are no problems.
If you posted a photo earlier today and it disapeared
then it wont have been done correctly. As you can see...all the other guys pictures stay in place. Tell me what thread you are talking about and I will have a look. - Great picture`s Paul, and that second one down reminds me of the Jaws film where they all come running out of the sea after spotting a shark.
- Thanks Colin ah yes I
remember that Jaws film. Thats one way to clear the seafront! Thanks too for all the comments from all the guys..always welcome. I still love that one of JHG's little dog Georgie, Ive turned to mush so I have!!!lol
I thought the
ones too with new Councillor Georgette Rapley were eye opening. She certainly mixes in. Clearly has the people touch and I guess thats why she was elected..beat Labour even..strewth!!lol
Vic if you wear a mankini next year I will
be first there with the camera!!
Last day now to enjoy those pictures. Although at the moment what with it being Christmas week Ive totally lost track of what day is what..does anyone else feel like
that? - paulb
castle is a tory stronghold and dont forget they gave the alliance/tory candidate was given a clear run by tories
paulb
you
posted at 3.05pmu could have in stead been at crabble at 3pm lol - Paul/B post 15 age concern post. Thank you for your help
- Alan have had a look and the picture doesnt seem to be on the system. All other pix are happily there. Just upload the missing one again and it should work fine. There is no
actual problem with the system, all is working fine. - Keef are you saying that the Dover Alliance and the Conservatives are one and the same?
Or..ponder
the thought...are the Dover Alliance the equivalent of the Libdems? Joe public is baffled.. - the above story is rather sobering and sad but things do happen at
funny times,just hope the two remaning crewmen pull through.sad news for the crewmens famley at christmass time. - paulb,i think that kieth is trying to confuse us here,i know
i am. - Yes they do work with each other and have done so from the time even when I was on the D.T.C. That is why you will never see the Alliance stand for District Roger was a
one off when he did stand for the Town and as we know he did get in.That is why we could see D/H/ standing at district for the blues,Why do they do it?that is easy to tell you,as you know most town wards are red,and the Conservatives
know that they would not get in on most of them,some of the public in the town wards will vote Alliance but never Conservative,and the same for the Alliance,they know outside the town council wards they would not get one seat,so they
worked this way,and that is the way it is.D/H knows that so that is why he is going to stand for the blues.But again in May you will see me standing in all of them for UKIP even If I am not back on my legs by then. - interesting explanation vic, all very confusing for the electorate though.
- The electorate need only
to think of one issue have they got good cllrs in their wards ,working for the public of that ward and not any party,in your ward Howard we see that with the Alliance and the reds some do not work in the ward.But also in your ward you
have some red Cllrs that are working for you.I think in most wards next time we will see less Alliance cllrs. - Paulb
perish the thought of my suggesting the
tories/alliance are all one
i know mr precious would not want it?
but look at this a little more deeply, in a safe tory ward the tories decided to give the alliance a free run in a seat they held!!!!!!
vic;
your
post is a little confusing, roger was a tory not alliance, and to clear this al up
in Deal the tories are happy to be honest with the electorate and stand tory candidates on the town council.
In Dover the tories pretended they
werre against political parties standing on dover town council, yet had a cllr sitting on it.
now it looks like they won't be standing candidates again(for how long)
of course we have this unanswere question on our david h
and standing for the tories in May, my monies on him standing,
vic please don't keep hiding behind this non political ticket
you are no longer an independent, your are part of a national UKIP party.
so if you feel
political parties shouldn't be involved next may on town councils then you need to look at yourself and if you to be in a national party, you can't have it both ways. - Keith
read the post again I said Roger was ablue. And I am not hiding I am standing for UKIP I said that to.but on our leaflets it did say and the next one will do this"At local level.we in UKIP are effectively independent and can therefore
put forward your views instead of having them"Shot down"by the party machine. And before you say it there will be some 50,000leaflets done this time. - kieth,confused i know i am.is he an indie/tory,tory/indie or just an indie,confused i am.
- vic
you are part of a national and international party vic, no longer
an indy, - Maybe the clue lies in the name of the party Keef..United Kingdom Independance Party. A grouping of independents...maybe thats where Vic is coming from. Although to
be truly an independent you shouldnt be aligned with anybody else.
To go off on another political tangent for the moment..isnt it cynical the way David Cameron and Nick Clegg have annihilated the opposition coming from Simon
Hughes... by offering him a new job encouraging people to go to University. It throws Simon Hughes a token bone and gets him onboard with their tuition fee plans. Hughes abstained in the recent big vote...but I guess he wont be an
abstentionist any longer. Bought off! - As you know I have been on my own before and the cost is great in the way of funding it cost me £1000s and I do not not
have that anymore,so this is the best way forward for myself. - i did wonder why simon hughes abstained in the big vote instead of voting against it, seems we know why
now.
dave and nick did not want a leading yellow heading a revolt so they done a deal with him, the payback is today making it look that they have only just thought it up.
i thought better of hughes. - Gentlemen its nearly the start of a new year, could we please have what is left of Christmas, Politics free thank you.
- i have always respected simon hughes but if the information is correct then shame on him.
but it will be the electorate that will decide his
fate - message to alan t,aunty stella is getting cold,she asks if you can come down and warm her up.
- Alan, there
is a much higher chance pigs might fly. LOL - Simon Hughes and David Cameron. Is there really any difference in their political ideas? I can't see any. They seem like identical
twins separated at birth to me in terms of their policies - lefty, green and naive. - janh,pigs did fly last night,now being slow roasted for new years
eve.lol - Despite the tragic loss of life the evacuation procedures and designation of QEQM as the A&E centre for maritime emergencies worked successfully.
- That is sad news about the crew man and on christmas eve, just goes to show even on christmas eve we can rely on our services to be there ready to do
their job. - don't know the detais of the coast guard case
but at these times we realise how much we need the emergency
services - Yes the local RNLI guys do a fine job and this time on Christmas Eve too. 18 miles out off Dover in very rough seas and bitterly cold weather. Very unpleasant
conditions. Not something one wants to be doing on Christmas Eve if one can avoid it, so a hearty well done to them. Sadly yes one of those rescued from the stricken ship has since died. The other two are critical but lets hope for the
best there.
Also a word about the motorcyclists in the editorial above who did the toy run on that awful snow-covered saturday before christmas. Tough going in dreadfully slippery conditions, particularly so on two wheels.
Brilliant stuff all round.
The spirit of community is alive and well. - will be interesting in the debate on the fire persons
- I have said this before that the Town council does what it can in the way of helping.
- if im honest i
think the town council suffers from a bad image problem which needs adressing - getting back to the life boat personnel, we must remember that unlike the other emergency
services they all do it free, gratis and for nothing.
hearty congrats to the bikers, mayor and mayoress in reaching the kent and canterbury, to be honest i just assumed that they had been snowed in. - yes howard the life bat persons do a great job
- so do the life boat
persons
lol - what a motly line up there,keep up the good work peeps.
- I would just like to wish you all a very
happy newyear and all the best for 2011 and have a good one tonight. - Really nice to see a follow up on a story, seeing that the bikers in what can only be said was
awful weather makeing through to Canterbury with the toys for the kids is great.
Well done guys. - The biker story has now moved into the All Recent Features section
now Jan along with all the other features, always worth a trundle through there for much 'historical' amusement.
On then to the Blakes item above which was a bit of fun to
do. - Enjoy your vintage whisky PaulB, 'shure dat looks loike a bottle of Stones Ginger Wine next to your prize dere', take note do not mix your prize to make
up a 'Whisky Mac' no matter how cold you are, t'would be 'Sacrilege'. Nice photos. - I can see by the top photo,I have been pushed into 3rd place again.
- vic
havnt you got the message yet??????
lol - A very nice evening there - the Wednesday before Christmas I
think it was.
Good to seee Paul and Jan there and Vic and Lesley of course. Ian is a lovely bloke, one who I have the highest regard for.
Good photos Paul - don't leave it till the next time you win a raffle to come down
there. - Since when has the Dover Express been allowed to take things that we say on the forum and print them in the paper with out asking first.Cant wait for them to open on
Tuesday. - alan
this is a public message board, as long as they quote the forum as source i cannot see any problem.
maybe paulb can clarify that? - alan
i have a bias on the express and for good reason as i have explained in the past
all i hope is that one of the reporters looking in will reply to your
concerns. - I think its probably legitimate to quote from Doverforum providing they quote their source, or they can work stories up from what they have seen on the forum. The
problem is they very rarely say where they get the stuff from. They seem to be using the forum as their backroom research office without giving it any kind of credit. Occasionally they do...Yam did recently on the story about Blakes
being up for sale...which is the honourable thing to do in my view.
We could make the forum visible to members only if we wanted to be perverse about it and edit the memberlist accordingly. But no...we wouldnt do that! would we!?
lol
But Alan its probably fair game for them to quote it providing its kept in the context of the way you intended it. However they should say where they are getting it so that they dont give the impression its people talking
directly to them. They dont have an office here in Dover so we are their direct contact with whats going on by the look of it. - Whats got my goat is they wanted
loads of photos of the Santa's at age concern party and never used any of them, then they used what I said on the forum about pulling the driver from the lorry so an ambulance could get on the estate with out asking my permission don't
we have any laws left to protect our privacy what I say on this forum should stay on this forum, Maybe you should remove me from the list if every time I say something its going to be used in the papers. - Interesting post from Mr Taylor.
He openly admits assaulting a foriegn lorry driver and dragging him from his cab. Compounds the admission by confirming that he drove a
lorry without the owners consent (theft),driving without insurance and possibly the correct driving license.
His main concern though is copying of his comments on an open forum with no copy right. Hmmmmm!!! Are laws only for a
certain few to abide by??? - The Dover Mercury wrote a very good piece last week about my new job which is helping young people find work experience/work placement - a
very valuable part of their future career(s).
That was taken from the Forum and I'm very pleased they did.
My comments have been taken from here on a number of occasions and put into the local papers and on just one or
maybe two times I have been put out, but over-all, it's not a problem for me at all.
Roger - I am just off to the Hos/now thank you for puting that up,it has
made me feel beeter. - Good luck with your hospital visit Vic.
Just reading through Nigel Farage's New Year message and wondering if the grey suited bureaucrats in
Brussels seem all that bad on this gloomy first working day of the New Year. Look at the mess our own politicians have left us in as we start the working New Year, it wasnt a mess made by those aforementioned grey suited
bureaucrats.
One other little reflection..have you noticed how much more Big Society costs ...Big Government now looks like a bargain! - i noticed the
train fares rise amongst the items you mention paul.
i have been trying to get the price of a 12 month season ticket dover/london off the south eastern rail website without success.
i heard that it has hit the £.5000 mark
canterbury/london.
it seems that the train operating companies are hitting the commuters more than the people that use the train for shopping or theatre trips.
this seems very unfair on people that are reliant on the
service for their jobs. - Nigel Farage. why did he call Belgium a none country when he had his rave in the EU Parliament.dose he not know that thousands of young
men from this country and this town lie buried in Belgium soil and are looked after by Belgium's, after WW2 it was the Belgians that came to Dover to help rebuild the houses and there are many plaques around Dover to show that, so
please UKIP have some respect for our history and Belgium as a Country. you may have gained some more votes but for that stupid remark . - belgium is in the process of
splitting up into regions, maybe that ws what mr farage was referring to, i never heard the speech.
i remember him making disparaging remarks about an individual belgian that held high office in the european parliament. - Brilliantly said there Alan, yes I heard the speech and it was very embarassing all round and not one of Mr Farage's finest moments and I bet he realises that now. He
attacked the newly appointed Belgian leader of the EU who was, and to some extent still is, a faceless bureaucrat but he used unpleasant language and tone. He called Belgium a "boring little country" to boot which didnt go down well
anywhere. We expect more responsibilty from a party leader. That kind of language is ok if you are on the lunatic fringe.
I would guess Mr Farage is probably embarassed by that now, it wasnt his finest hour.
- Howard,
The cost of an annual season ticket from Deal or Dover to St Pancras via highspeed is now a staggering £5,240.00 which equates to a 12.8%
increase on peak fares.
Commuters from Deal will be hardest hit as there is still no sign that Southeastern will extend the highspeed service to Deal and journey times to London have actually increased on the back of an appalling
mainline service. - hsdeal.blogspot.com - I'm sure if you can make a financially viable case to Southeastern then the HS services could
include a stop at Deal. That would of course include the additional timetable impact of the stop as well. You could look at suggesting the removal of the Folkestone West stop, but that would need some work to justify.
Petitions
simply won't cut it.
As for the price rises, well cynically now services have attracted their customer base, in the peak periods, and the original service down graded (re-times) it's a captive market. Disproportionate price
rises were inevitable no matter how unjustified.
Howard, the train service is now designed around a commuter customer base so they pay the brunt of the cost. Day trippers are a fill in service here on southeastern. - thanks for info chaps, when you think that many commuters still have a tube journey upon arrival at st pancras, it is a massive chunk out of an average take home
wage. - The passenger demand for HS at Deal already exists, we already have peak trains passing through the station without stopping and the onboard manager for
these services could be available as they also travel via mainline through Deal to board the service at Dover.
I think Mark Reckless MP Rochester & Strood summed it up today on kentonline ~ "The company is simply treating the
Kent franchise as a cash cow and does not even appear to be making decisions which are commercially sensible. Southeastern should be stripped of the franchise as soon as
possible." - hsdeal.blogspot.com - my comment was mean't to be constructive support.
If trains pass thro' Deal there must be a
clear financial case for them to stop. There is a lot of work and National agreement that goes in to timetable changes.
Just because the on board manager travels thro' Deal is not relevant. I'm assuming that is to clock on.
Where ever they travel from their rostered sign on is Dover Priory.
As I said if you make a case for stopping at Deal rather than Folkestone West your battle is virtually won. This is more than realistic if you can show demand is
higher at Deal peak times.
Unfortunately Mr Reckless is right in that the HS route will be a cash cow, now the long haul local times have been increased.
However, given a sound commercial case Southeastern, like any other
business, will welcome suggestions. In that part he was just being a typical politician.
- train travel
howard im sure if you ask john g
he will get the fare
dover to london - Just to go onto the petrol aspect for the moment. I have had some of the usual information through from the AA quoting the December petrol prices across the
country. These of course are all due to go up skywards as we know.
But let me just mention a possible price saving idea.
Average UK price for unleaded petrol per litre is 122.1
Average UK price for super unleaded per litre
is 129.4
Any experts out there who can tell us the real difference between the two?? Would it significantly affect anything to go for the cheapest option because there is a considerable saving to be made pricewise. Thats quite a
difference in cost. If people are like me they just drive up to the nearest available unleaded pump not always noticing the difference.
Remember these are the latest available monthly figures so were taken in
December. - I know £5240 for an annual season ticket on HS1 sounds expensive.
But if you are travelling to London 5x52 the cost comes in at just over £20
return per day.
When I travel currently it ranged anywhere between £56-£61 per day on HS1
Seems to me a good deal.
Try it by car with congestion charges, car parking and the uncertainty of getting into & around
London for 9.00am meetings.
Dover & Deal are still attractive options for cost of housing and living. - you are right in what you say paul,
but i cannot help but think that the train operators are doing the same costings in order to see what they can get away with.
the increase in east kent seems well above the national average.
a lot of people are switching to
national express now as they cannot afford the train fares to work.
personally i believe that john goodwin has a lot to answer for here. - Howard I think bus
is ok economically.
What it does not is get you thru. Central London in guaranteed times.
Buses get the same stoppages as cars despite bus lanes.
Motor bikes are best. - just as an add on to the rail fares issue, commuters are entitled to a 5% rebate if the service fails on the punctuality score of 82%.
the train company beat this by
0.05%.
such a wonderful coincidence. - just spotted the picture at the top of the page.
who is that bloke standing next to vic? - howard,im sure i have seen him on telly,some comady show or other simular programe.apparntly tells good jokes.lol.
- Ah yes a much televised individual, raconteur, wit, rattling demon of the comfortable euro set, hounder of the Belgians, and much needed replacement for Lord Pearson, who replaced him in the first place.
Nigel Farage is
due a visit to Dover. Nearly made it just a short few weeks ago but the weather scuppered the plans. That airport in Belgium was shut...so he couldnt escape..perhaps they were evening up the
score!! - lets hope hes not flying here lol lol lol
- could be worse,might have been diverted via
moscoe,oslo,new york,care town,sidney falklands isles and finealy ending up in the outer hebredies.lol - At this very time I am trying to get LordPearson and Mr Farage to Dover
at the same time,By the way when I was in Hospital on Tuesday I did read that book all in one day and it is a very good one to read. - apparently it is one of those
books that once you put it down, it is very difficult to pick up again. - No it is the other way round once you pick it up you can not put it down ,it makes real
good reading - people have been asking me on the picture
whos the bloke with mr farage
lol - Vic try
reading A Journey by Tony Blair a real Political leader not a fly by night NF what unfortunate initials. - couldn't resist resurrecting that old joke vic, seems like john is getting
rattled here by the possibility of a visit from mr farage. - howard,dont you mean the jocker from brussels.
- Do you think I
would notice Howard,I have seen great and not so great politicians arriving at Dover Priory,where would I put NF you guess! - you wouldn't make such an issue of ukip, vic and nigel
farrage if you were not worried by them john.
i think you will find that your masters at red headquarters will see them as a gift from the gods and would be most concerned at your rubbishing of them. - Again Howard you are right, but the reds in Dover only see red .
- the reds have lost the plot vic, the
national feeling is that the blues will be shafted in may.
despite that the reds try to help the blues by attacking ukip.
having watched politics from the sidelines most of my life i am totally gobsmacked by the strange
postings of john and keith. - No doubt Paul Watkins can and will answer for the Conservatives with regard to the new Labour release now showing above, but once
again I would just like to mention that we are happy to have information through from all parties. The Conservatives rarely send anything direct but we would be happy to use it in the interests of balance should they do so.
I will
drop Paul a line later today... - FOR THOSE THAT HAVE NOT READ BERN'S BLOG, it is about the very poor standard of care her mother is receiving in an as yet un-
named local hospital. It could be you or me on the receiving end at any time.
PLEASE READ IT, sorry to shout but I want this to show up among the many political posts. - Just to let you know,I have just come off the phone after talking to Mr Farage,and I have asked him to post today on this page, he said he will if he gets the time. Thank you.
- Howard thanks for your comments and advice,we are attacked on here and we will attack any political group who's ideas don't agree with us.As I have said the Labour Group
will take on the Tories Libs Green UKIP and anyone else.
Why because we know we have the hardest working Cllrs in this Town,we are in general well known because of the work we do in the
community. - I have never said they do not work at what they do in the town and indeed at this very time I am working with some of them with coming events to be held in Dover over
the next two years. - We would always be interested Vic in a post from Mr Farage. Certainly a colourful politician so if he wanted to address us here in Dover directly it
would be very good and very welcome. - If there must be Politics on the Front page can we please have something positive on what they are proposing to do for us.
Something that is real, tangible and we can see if the politician concerned actually delivers what he says.
Mr Farages contribution gives nothing for us to measure, which is a shame.
Mr Cowan's is simply a negative attack
on everything Conservative, with a quick hark back to nearly thirty years ago. It strangely ignores the last 13years years of Labour government. Which is why we are where we are today.
Lets have something we can vote for not why
we should not vote for someone else. If we must have Politics on the front page.
You will note this is is not politically biased, just a plea for something positive. - JOINT EFFORT?
Gordon,PaulW.
You both have the same problem to solve.
The problem can be solved by the economies of scale provided by an East Kent Council.
Is it possible,for once to take politics out of local
government for the sake our people and give them the services they pay for?
Could you both consider to unite your efforts to try to convince the Coalition Government to permit this to happen? - gordon makes his views clear on the cuts, later today the head of kent county council will be making a statement over forthcoming cuts.
there are £90 million
to be saved and will severely hit jobs and services. - Exactly my point Howard. With all the carnage to come something positive from the politicians would be really
welcomed.
Rather than the he said, she said blame threads that persist.
We all know it's going to be unpleasant but a little bit of sugar with the medicine would be nice, knowing who passed you the bug doesn't really
help. - PaulB,
Thank you for your offer of coverage.
For the moment I don't think we will be issuing press releases other than you already publish via
DDC.
When we move into the formal election period that may well change.
If I or my colleagues want to press a political point I will obviously circulate them to you.
In general I prefer to answer questions
and political jibes with the facts,whether popular or not.
I don't normally have problems getting media coverage if I believe I need to make a point and in general the press/media are responsive.
Not sure what Gordon's
press releases achieves. There are no real facts just Gordon's view of life.
You have seen Forum members response.
- the other
paul the fuhrer has issued a decree from his maidstone bunker over the forthcoming cuts.
not too much detail has emerged yet, but basically £38 million will come from efficency savings(no indication of how many jobs will be
lost).
money will be saved on travel concessions, the kids freedom ticket that is now 50 quid a year will be doubled and some loss making bus services will be for the chop and included in this.
older persons strategy and
early intervention services will be cut.
i have absolutely no idea what that means in english. - www.kent.gov.uk/news_and_events/news_archive/budget_announcement.aspx
- i.m sure gordon c's postings will become positive in what labour will do, and
gordon has never been frightened to not only give view points but also be very constructive.
i look forward to a more non one sided debate on here that doesnt result in just slagging off everyone for the sake of it.
i know
gordon will be happy as the KCC member to give his view point from a labour point of view - Here we go again.
Do any of the politico's ever read (not just look) at the
posts from us non politico's.
Another simple request turning into he said she said politics.
I can second guess the response. "I don't belong to the labour party anymore but!!"
No wonder so many people leave the
forum to the hardcore. - i doubt that any politico would reply to a pseudonym.
- howard
you hit
the nail on the head
all to easy to hide - this argument goes back yonks keith.
the previous forum was destroyed by it, that is why paulb is so strict on the criteria
now.
we are a club after all. - yes howard
and we still have a few un named persons posting
which even i thought was coming to an end
but never
mind
it will restrict postings i believe - A Realist, they look, they read, they ignore. LOL
- Thanks Jan I wish
you luck if stay with this. I'm afraid I can't. - Recruitment Drive.
Coming soon in Dover we are going to have a recruitment drive for new members
of all ages,is will be spearheaded by our commitee in Dover Deal and Folkstone,in also in that drive we will be asking for members if they would like to stand for candidates for cllrs in next MAYS locals ,as I have put before on the
forum at local level,we in UKIP are effectively independent and can therefore put forward your views instead of having them"SHOT DOWN"by the party machine.
I also need to strengthen my commitee,at is time I have a very good
commitee all hard workers ,but we still need two or 3 more to share the workload +the ex work in geting ready for next MAY,if you would like to join up with us please email myself or any member of my commitee or phone me on
07758710889.or go to the UKIP site where you will find anything you need to know and you can then sign up on line.
Thank you Vic Matcham .Chairman of UKIP in Dover. - Keith me oul china...on the frontpage here anyone can still post anonymously as there isnt any way we can enforce it otherwise. Any post can come in
directly from the public out there, and they will be used as long as they are responsible. We like the general public to communicate with us, you dont have to be a member...but the emphasis is on responsible when coming from an anonymous
source.
But with regards to anyone joining up as a member to post on our Forum proper, we dont allow anonymous membership for that. Thats basically our main discussion section...this page is like a Letters Page in a newspaper. But
we would prefer people put their names to their opinions, its obviously better all round.
PaulW okay..fair enough. Lots of people read the releases though just remember that, so its a useful tool to get a message out.
On
the other hand with regard the other posts, we appreciate some people dont like politics but we will still continue coverage of politics, we couldnt NOT do it. But we do try to have a mixture all round of all sorts of topics. The Forum
carries every kind of topic. - I have already put this on the members page but just to let all know Mr Farage leader of UKIP is now a member of the Dover
Forum. - As my last post I would like to thank PaulB for his even handed response. Just 2 final points.
1 I did not propose that politics were not part of the
front page simply that it should be more positive rather than the attacking kind that generates the long counter argument threads, swamping any other kinds of debate.
2 Second I chose to use a pseudonym and not become a full
member because of the tendency of some hardcore forumites to make things personal or start gossip about individuals. With individuals not responding in name often being harassed and bullied by unnecessary comments until they do post. (I
do think this is harsh but true).
Good luck to both readers and debaters. - I note from the Dover Express (1911 A Year of Celebration) that the population of Dover
was 43467 (now down to 30000). Since that time we have had the building of large housing projects at both Buckland and Whitfield.
Allegedly there is a shortage of housing. Could this possibly be due to the call in the same paper
for refugees to settle in Deal (and presumably other places in the district)? - Mr Ruprt,I think Dover has more then its share of refugees at this time,and I do not agree
with the big housing project at Whitfield and it is not needed, - i don't think we have any refugees now vic.
i read that piece too about the request to house them
in deal, seems to be out of our hands locally, all decided in maidstone. - Well all i can say there is alot of folk walking around that talk in English,I do not
understand. - vic
they are not refugees but friends from the new europe.
they are free to move around the 26 countries in the union as and when they
lijke.
might be in some way connected with the lack of take up on televsion licences and the forgetting to pay bills and fines. - just to add to howards post
we the citazens are also wellcome to wonder,stay,work or live in the other 26 countrys to. - nice photo of nigel farage shame about vic matcham
- i thought that our resident man about town looked rather fetching.
vic is a good looking chap, he must be because he regularly tells us. - Thank you for that Mr Williams,I think I know who you are,and I hope you have agood day at the football tomorrow.
- Vic
You really must try to stop your threatening behaviour.This is not the first time I have read that you would "like to meet up with someone who disagrees with your views". It is unbecoming and should cease.Mr Williams
has the same freedom of speech that you enjoy. - First Marek,I do not know what you are talking about,next I have along life mate in Dover and his name is Mr Williams,this
might be him he has never done aposting before but it could be him.I have never done any threating post, nor would I,yes I would like to meet up with anyone who disagrees with me but only to talk to about what they disagree with,I think
you need to go back and read your own posts to me and how you put them. - How on earth was the post from Vic
threatening? - i took the post from marek to be light hearted.
- Read the Daily Express today backing
UKIP in geting out of the EU some very big names there to Lord Stevens,Sir Ian Botham,Winston McKenzie the former Boxer,Wetherspoon chairman Tim Marin,and the big one lord Tebbit and the list goes on and on. - with all due respect that is a bit of a motley crowd.
2 former sportspersons and a blue peer with a chip on his shoulder about the coalition. - howard
you are correct again
yet you keep saying why do the reds challenge UKIP looks now like you are seeing
why - There is lot more of this story to come yet,
- With due respect Vic.
The Express Group are not
backing UKIP's stance but putting forward their own campaign of which Nigel Farage was asked to contribute at the back of the supplement, along with others as identified. - She has arrived with the long lost sun, great pictures PaulB so much better than the ugly mugs we tend to get on the front page.LOL
- Looks like a sophisticated freighter built to deal with is main payload.
- Mr Watkins they are backing UKIP in more ways then one,as you
know this campaign in the Express has been going on for somtime time now what we saw in Saturdays paper was not just a one off. Thank you for your comments they are most welcome. - That big beautiful ship is a most welcome sight for Dover and all those who use the Port.
Congratulations to P. & O. Ferries for investing in the ship and Dover and
also to DHB for investing in the Port and making it possible.
A big win-win all round.
Well done Scotchie for the photos.
Reading the article in the Daily Express on Saturday, it is more a case of UKIP supporting
the Express, not the other way round.
Like I've said on a previous posting, we need to take more notice of what the people are saying.
Roger - Thanks
guys re the comments on the photos above. I actually took those ones of the ship above Roger although Scotchie took the aerial picture of the Port...more very good pictures from Scotchie, Ken Baker, Ed Connell, Ray Newsam, on the thread
in the Forum...great ones all round. Hugely well done to those guys. All stars.
The ship attracted a huge crowd all round..even up on the cliffs. Much more than I expected it to. Great positive sunkissed day down on the seafront.
I could also see the hundreds on the Cliffs. - Let`s be perfectly clear about the massive Daily Express campaign to get this country out of the EU. It is true
that they are not directly supporting UKIP in this particular instance, however, the Express is not a political party and therefore cannot be voted for.
On the other hand, by default, if their readers are rightly angered at what
they read ( and I believe most of them will be! ) then UKIP is the ONLY party that they can vote for because of it`s 100% commitment to withdraw from the EU.
Everyone knows by now that Dave`s love in with the EU will continue and
the chance of any referendum on our membership, ( at the right time of course!! ) is just a complete and utter joke.
Anybody who genuinly believes that this Government will at some time or other give us a referendum should seek
medical help immediately! ( if not sooner, as it ain`t ever gonna happen! )
- good grief john posts from you are as rare as rocking horse ****, there was a
rumour you had emigrated to belgium.
you are right on the referendum, the establishment parties will never trust the electorate to make a correct decision on our continued membership of the union.
mind you the whole thing
looks like collapsing anyway in the next few years, it has been made clear that if the currency fails there is no point in the political union. - I might be right
and I might be wrong here, but following up on Howard's post, the EU might collapse in the next few years when it's time to start paying back the bail-outs. - I'm not
superstitious, but this year July has 5 Fridays, 5 Saturdays and 5 Sundays. This happens once every 823 years. This is called money bags. - alex
the conservative
(with a small c germans) are 50/50 about the future of the euro.
this suggests to me that the currency is on the way out.
good to see you back posting regularly again. - Nice pictures of the 'Spirit of Britain' there PaulB, very smooth lines on the new ferry.
- Yes very
smooth lines...but have you noticed the gathered group on the roof of the thing...they look as if they are getting a right soaking from the Tugboat spray! Oh dear! Still it was all a bit of
fun.... - very simular to the molare at distance as scotchies picture shows on the main thread.
- It's the Molliere. And no they are nothing alike, the Pride of Britain is a completely different shape and layout.
- jeremy,the poster in question has stated that certain picture was the sob.
- I do beg your pardon Brian, my mistake - you are
right it's the Spirit of Britain. I do apologise, it was a slip of the typing finger. - How Dare they.
You are all in bed now,but i have just got up
"WHY" because I can not sleep because of what i have seen in Dover over the last two days,i have again been walking around behind the main streets of our town,there are more bad sites and all in a mess then we can count on our hands
and feet,,you can go to any part of Dover and fine them go around the back od castle st ,sT james St round behind the Castle inn and the Nelson,and the old bus station,look in that cutout on the fence that is around it,and see what we
payed for in the name of art, Take photos of it all pass them on to the council and the press,then just walk up the town to the old mill see it all again,and on top of all that in 3weeks time we are going to see more mess when that Esso
outlet closes next door to it,you can walk from the seafront right out to River or up to Maxon, Or up Castle hill and you will see the real Dover.
And in May the District council will again be asking you to vote them in again,how
can we do that,with what we see around us, and if we do vote them out and the reds in will that help sorry that will not ,it will not be any better,so what can we do about it,well first we need to write and write to your MP The press go
to meetings and make yourself heard,get up and tell them what you think,even if it means you are asked to get out. Also we need to look at who the person who is standing in your ward,and their pass record if they have been on the council
before,and if you think they have not done well,then do not vote for him or her,I have said it before start voting for the person and not the party.There are black bags all over the place that need to be taken away,old weeds etc to be
cut down and sites cleaned up.We can not blame it all on the council they do not make the mess or put the rubbish there ,but it is their job to get it cleaned up,but the public have abig part to play in this to if you see it happing
report it, if you walk around report the site and the mess to the council,then go back in afew days time and see if it has been done.
I still think we have the right party running the district council but there are changes needed
some cllrs have been in the same office far to long,and again the planning dept needs to be looked at we need a planning dept that supports Dover more.I am not happy to sit here and write posts like this one,and it is not to get votesI
have done it and not for the first time because I look at Dover as my Town ,a great town with a great history behind it. I would hate to die with it as it is today.
Dover is slowly dieing,and the only thing that can turn it around
and save it is you and me.stop all the one bedroom flats, we need more middle class and upper class kind of family I am working class ,but we in Dover are very much unbalance,and need to evenout that means more of the class I have
already said,that will not happen unless we get our act together.
Is it all to late to do that, I do not think so,but that point is not far away.Also I have seen more rats running about in the town area soming has to be done,and
done now.Well I am going back to bed to try and sleep but with all this still on my mind that is not doing to happen. - vic,i have been saying that for months now,the
council say they are broke and that the area needs big money investers to bankroll the entire project. - jeremy,i was right looking at the picture again it is the molare.you
can just make out the seafrance logo on the side of the ship. - Most of those sites you mention Vic are up for either demolition or redevelopment/regeneration and it is very
doubtful that anything will be done until that regeneration starts, even if it is in a disgraceful condition.
Maybe something can be done; if you want to email me with specific sites, I'll follow it up.
Any rats seen should,
as you rightly say, be reported; if I see rats around our area, or anyone advises me about rats, I report it.
There does need to be a zero tolerance approach towards litter, fly-tipping and rubbish in front gardens.
DDCs
enforcement officers and our PCSOs need to report all of these things - they may do already I don't know, but if they turn a blind-eye, they must open it and report it.
You are right that the Council do not drop the rubbish etc.
so when they do find who has, they need to prosecute hard.
Most of it is the broken-window syndrome, which I'm sure I don't need to explain.
Sorry you lost your sleep Vic. You are right though that everyone must play
their part - private resident and councillor alike about reporting this kind of rubbish/fly-tipping/litter/black bags (and any other colour bags).
You can tell the difference between dumped and left out for the dustman - but some do
leave their bags out the day after collection and unles you see them do it, how do you prosecute ?
Roger - Thank you for your support on this one,and not saying I have said it just to get votes,I am just off out again,I can not rest till I see soming on the move about it. I am
worred about it all. Roger, I will be out on Wedesday morning again if you can make it just email me today or phone me.My m/07758710889,I will be taking photos of it all this week again but most of it has been done time after time
before. - Interesting posts there .I repeat again dont blame DDC .Its the lazy people who throw the litter .Two days last week i posted this on the members forum people
shouting .drinking in the the street .Being pushed in supermarkets .etc
Why are people like this because they have been dependant on the nanny state .Its always the councils or their councillors .
Marks and Spencer one of our
few remaning stores been like a jumble sale since Christmas .Food ,textiles thrown in your face .Are they all bargains ?
Who ever controls the District Council after the May elections until peoples attitudes change we will
continue to be a run down town .
I look at River, lived here forty years and been a councilllor for twenty three years .For the past week at school times you cannot move for cars .Yes they park here where Vic and I live block the
junction .No thought for anyone but themselves .
I watch some of our elderly trying to access the buses etc cars everywhere. A truly selfish world .. - Vic your
arguement about voting for the people not the Party doesn't always hold up, lets say in Barton Ward(I use this as the ward was done away with) lets say Keith and Barry stand(they won't that is why I am using them and I hope they don't
mind) both have been Cllrs and may do a good job on the Council. But....the other day you seemed to be canvassing for people to stand for UKIP. Lets just say Fred Bloggs stands for UKIP and you don't know him, would you tell the people
to vote for UKIP or Keith or Barry, even though you knew Keith or Barry would do a good job, bet you would say vote for UKIP.
Are you saying current Cllrs should be kicked out? and new Cllrs elected? Some Cllrs work hard for the
town and don't get in the limelight,I am lucky as I have a profile that gets in the news,does that make me a good Cllr or the work I do in my ward that doesn't get mentioned. - Roger, you mention zero tolerance regarding front gardens. The garden next door to me is a real mess and has been since I moved here very nearly seven years ago, every so often the rubbish is cleared away ready for the next
lot.
If I complained it might get cleared but would soon be like a tip again, so what is the point when the owner lives in the property and does not care about the state of the place. The back garden is the same and like a
builders yard most of the time.
A nice area ruined by one house and the other one they own a couple of doors away that is full of bedsits inhabited by some of the dregs of Dover. - You have some very good points there John. I have only just got in and have a council meeting to get ready for, I will have to think about what you said,but will get back later
on.But again very very good points thank you for posting them. - I have this morning attended a site meeting at The Hope Inn Lydden.Well attended by approx 25 locals all
speaking up for their community .
The new Councillor did well .
I had my pennyworth input , now preparing for tonights River Parish Council meeting .
I was pleased to see work on the new Doctors surgery is taking place that has
been a long saga ,still they got there in the end .
Nothing happens overnight .Softly softly does it .
The new bus shelter is now in place London Road River .
Not all doom and gloom . - susan
what was the meeting about at lydden?
i thought i read somewhere that the "hope" was being converted into residential accommodation. - It was about the sale of the land next to the pub.+part of the car park could go to
- What a beautiful
photo! Dover looks stunning. - The Hope site visit today was nothing to do with sale of land, it was about the plans to build four large houses on the pub car park and garden,
losing the skittle alley in the process. The decision will be made at DDC planning committee on Thursday.
The owner put in two planning applications, this is the second. The first was to demolish "the side extension" to improve
the sightline for cars leaving the site after the development in the second application.
This first application has already been passed by officers under devolved powers and rubber stamped by the planning committee without a site
visit, and will result in the demolition of the main bar of the pub, not an extension but a building dating from before 1800. The size of the pub will be reduced to a third of the present which probably isn't viable.
The locals
think this has been done in a strange way and will result in The Hope eventually being converted to housing, and with the Lydden Bell currently closed as well and work just starting on the old Chunnel site there will be more houses with
fewer facilities.
And yes, brilliant photo of the seafront, it was a great morning to get out and about in some rare sunshine. - thanks for the clarification
ray.
i suspect that the plan is as you suggest, for building more flats and houses.
the other issue must be about parking, people do park on the canterbury to dover road in lydden at present, how many more will be forced to
do so if the area is developed?
also sad to lose a feature that has survived 200 years. - I agree it was good to see such a strong turnout for the new P&O
ferry on Sunday. I suspect the weather had something to do with it, and also no doubt quite a few P&O staff came along.
- I am sorry that I got part of it
wrong. - VIC
you little fibber lol not doing it for votes lol
i can agree with most of your comments and will wait your reply on johns interesting
posting.
yep, as you know with you on the planning dept, probaby wont change but have to keep that battle going.,
of course vic i dont agree with you that blues should control ddc and hopefully in may that will
change - Although the story is over for Dover see editorial above, the great run should certainly have put a serious amount of money in the coffers. I hope so anyway. Could have
been even more though if they had beaten Huddersfield Town and drawn Manchester United...but I dream on....my imagination is running riot!lol!
But well done the Whites. They did
great. - fantastic pictures
fantastic for dover footy club
fantastic for dover in general
and ship
huddersfield drew arsenal or leeds away
as
grievsy says thats football
good on yer whites
proud to be a dover supporter in the good and bad times
a true supporter.
Now for the league,
COME ON YOU
WHITES - Yes that will be done today,John done a great post and it has put me on the spot,and I am still turning it over in my head,but what ever I come up with will not be a
lie,also you put that I done that post to get votes,you are very wrong in thinking that,one does not get up at 0200hrs just to do apost to get votes, I told the public why I done it, again that is true.
Back to the above Photos it
is well done to them and just look at that ground,you never know we might just get one in Dover like that in ten years time,if we still have the ground to build on.Anyway how did Dover get on last night I could not go because I had to go
to a council Meeting,but as we have not been told, I take it they did not do well or did we win. - great pics and editorial from the two pauls there.
such a
momentous day for the club and town deserves nothing less. - Scotchie, I have just read your book that I had for a Christmas present Great, Great,thank you so much
have not seen a better book about dover since granddad showed me a book about dover harbor back in the late 50s and 60s I will treasure this for ever, And thank you Brian for the present. - alan,a pleasure to get you the book.
- Vic. Dover drew 2 all with Woking last night. Woking are a decent team but
we were not at our best last night, at don't evan mention the man in black!! - Thank you for that Paul,a drew with Woking is not bad ,and I am sorry I could not get
there,But as we all know Dover do not play their best at home,but just hope they get in the play off later on.And Yes the ref I have seen myself up there and the linesman at times are not that good in keeping up with play.Thank
you. - Whilst I am loath to rain on anyone’s parade (even if it is a series of rather naff stretched limousines transporting the great unwashed to a School Prom where they
will celebrate their ‘achievements’) nevertheless last week’s release of local GCSE results possibly deserve more analysis than is in today’s newspaper.
I suspect that most teachers would agree with me that a GCSE in both
English and Mathematics is a minimum requirement for anyone in the country to seek gainful employment, and indeed to survive as a fully functional member of society.
Without picking on individual schools, and ignoring
‘special’ schools, analysing the GCSE results for all of the Secondary Schools in the Dover District it would appear that of the 1335 pupils who sat GCSE examinations last year only 51% (this means just over half, for those of you in the
remaining 49%!) can both read and write as well as do fairly simple sums.
Whilst this might be reasonable in an area where there is a large percentage of the population with English as other than a first language, I view
this as pretty pathetic in what is almost without exception a mono-lingual community.
International data shows that we are dropping down the league in terms of educational results with the Pacific Rim especially running
circles round us.
Might I hope that the present cohort of Secondary School pupils really enjoy their mobiles, social-networking, plasma televisions and especially their School Proms. I suspect that for most of them this will
be the highest standard of living that they will enjoy since they are in essence unemployable.
- whilst i would not disagree with the
fact that many countries have far superior education systems, the point you make about us being a mono-lingual community is incorrect.
i hear a selection of languages being spoken in the shops of dover. - Howard,
Compared to most inner cities (and indeed major conurbations) I can assure you that Dover District is (as I wrote) almost without exception mono-
lingual.
The very fact that you notice foreign languages possibly proves my point. - Like the NHS we see in schools that they get no long
pattern and are pulled into one way of going then a new party get into power,and they are taken out of that way and pulled some other way,also what we need is to see Teachers staying at the same school longer, once a Teacher is taken on
at a school then that should be for no less then 5years ,I know that could not happen in some cases but the child needs to see the same face teacher for longer then a few weeks or even a year,this helps the child to get to know and trust
the teacher,and the teacher in returns gets to know the child,years ago we had the same teachers staying in some cases for there whole working life teaching first mum&dad in their childhood and then when they growup and have a child we
would still see the same teacher going on to teach that child to,and it did work well, but the way we see it today teachers move around even just after weeks or a year and that does not work for the child or the school - There was a news report earlier this week that the Duke of Yorks Scool had just taken on their first pupil from a non-military family, something that comes about as a result of
them becoming an Academy School.
The parents chose the school on the basis of 100% of pupils getting at least 5 A* to C grades at GCSE. Shows what discipline can do! - Looking at local Academy schools I note that the Folkestone Academy and the Marlowe Academy (the latter named after a man who was stabbed in a pub in Deptford) have 'gained' 25% and 14% 5 A*-C including English and
Mathematics.
These two schools have cost £21 million and £38 million respectively just for the school buildings.
If one wants bangs per buck Ray I would suggest that Academy status is less than a panacea?
- you're right on that one bob, one would expect better results for that sort of dosh.
- Marlowe Academy, still Conyngham and that explains all in my book !!
- Teecher - the DYRMS results are nothing to do with Academy status, that just means they now have to open their intake to all. As I understand it, DoE fund
the teaching, MoD fund the ceremonial side and parents fund boarding if needed. - I see that none of you have taken up with what I said,by that then I take you do not agree
with what I put. - usually when people agree they do not reply vic, not the other way around.
when i was a kid the primary school teachers spent their entire working
life at one school.
i doubt you would be able to force teachers to stay put, maybe a loyalty bonus would do the trick? - Ray,
Sorry to dispel a myth
but Duke of Yorks 97% A*-C (from only 75 pupils).
Admittedly above the 92% for Dover Grammar School for Boys (but then as people have always said they are very clever ....... for Dover! - doesn't say a lot for us that our footy team and their over achievement has not led to a plethora of comments.
great set of pics of dovorians enjoying a memorable day
out. - Yes the pics are enjoyable and what a lovely football ground Huddersfield Town have...as shown above. It would be immensely enjoyable going to that every
saturday. For my pains I myself used to go to Crystal Palace once upon a time. I lived in Souv London then. Guys like Alan Birchenal and Gerry Queen used to play for them then, as they were near top flight in those days.
We had
visits from the likes of George Best and Billy Bonds..aaah legends from the past. Great days. Anyone remember them?
So it was exciting to see Dover have such an immense run with bigger names. Everyone connected with the club are
clearly proud of the achievement. - on the footy front
dover in general should be proud of achievements so far, they have already achieved a lot, but i think
better things are to come.
the club is building and getting better.
with the FA CUP out of the way dover footy can now concentrate fully on the poush for auttomatic promotion(play offs as a last resort)
on the question
of referee's as vic has been one
as i am and have been since 1974
i have to say it''s swings and roundabouts
iv seen dover get decisions that are very dubious to say the least
the decisions over the course of a
season even themselves out.
anyway heres to automatic promotion
COME ON YOU WHITES - It was indeed a fantastic achievement by all connected to the club from
Jim Parmenter and Roger Knight down, the support given by the Dover fans was nothing short of amazing especially so soon after Christmas when money must have been tight, they did us proud and hopefully they will be rewarded with a
promotion at the end of the season. - Keith,Going back a few years now,yes we were both football referee,s for some years, I was a reeferee first in the Army then when I came
out I was a local one, mainly just Sunday mornings I did do one or to on Saturday afternoon and run the line,but it was all local football, +Folkestone to. Was I good at it? Well some will say no to that.I did not let the players get
away with alot at one match I send off 6 players ,I would put up with spiting or Bad language,in one match I had a fight because the player would not go off and all his mates got round me,I just picked him up and carred him off, one of
his mates then took a swing at me but missed,but mine did not miss. Graet fun in them Days most of them had to much to drink on the Saturday nignt anyway. - Sorry that
should read that I would not put up with spiting and bad language. - vic
obviously not sanctioned style of reffing by the K.CF.A.
anyway vic how are
you - vic always stamps his own style on everything.
refereeing is no different. - vic
were you
ever qualified by the kcfa?t asking??? just asking - No there was need to Keith they told me because I had my army papers ,and only doing Sunday morning I can just carrie on
. - that explains a lot lol
- After reading about Vic's exploits with the whistle I will never complain
about a referee again!!!! - Well in the days I was a ref for the lads, the weekend went like this.
Down the pub Saturday night get rotten look at football on the TV late at
night or stay in the pub till about 0200hrs in the morning then few hours sleep, up and out by 0930hrs with one big hangover then it was play or try and play in a football match,have ago at the ref .because they still had the
hangover,+all the girls shouting them from the t/line, some would get send off. then it was back to the pub and back drinking not caring about the poor old ref who went home after it all. But I never once wrote up about it to the Kcfa, I
did go to the meetings alot and done afew tests over the years. But as for booking and all that it was not for me just send them off and let them sleep it off. I only got about £8 or £10 amatch.
Just to name onr or two of the clubs
(1)The Boars head .most of the time they were OK and good.
(2)the Alma again very good, even had Dover players in the side.(3)Dover taxies.(4) Star Taxies.(5)Snowdown (6)Roman Key .The list is very long . - thankfully vic
you are the exception
refs do send up bookings/sendings off to the KCFA otherwise theres no point reffing in the first
place. - This press release tells us very little. In particular the job title is impenetrable to anyone outside the ivory tower of local government. Can it be put into plain English please, Paul
W? - Yes indeed Peter thats what I felt myself when I first saw it. I mentioned it being a little obscure in the thread in the Forum. As the statement is for public
consumption a bit more clarity might be best.
Reg Hansell are you looking in...will look forward to hearing from you.
Martin from Deal...you make a fair few posts and very welcome. Drop me an email if you want to join us as
a member. Then you can post at will anywhere. My email is above there. - Thank you for posting that.Paul.
I think that What Mr Watkins has wrote down above is
good,and if it goes ahead it would be a help to both Shepway,and Dover and if it saves funding but does not cut services it is a very big+. - The statement tells us
virtually nothing we did not know except they hope to appoint someone in June to do a job that has not been fully explained. We can guess but we could guess wrong.
This is typical of politicians, keep Joe Public in the dark they
don't really need to know what we are up to. - Sharing of what currently is Chief Excutive.New tittle .
Paul W can explain but it something to do with job description .
A
few years ago DDC restructured and our Chief Officers were given the designation of Heads of etc . - Joint Statement.Two Councils move to merge!!
It is a move in the
right direction.
Simple Sums; We have four District Councils serving East Kent doing the same job.
We have four very expensive executive teams doing the same job.
This Protocol adds another expensive executive to overload the
already top heavy wage bill.
If we replace the four executive teams with one and add the savings achieved from the economies of scale of shared services of the four councils it will finance all our present services and also make
cosiderable savings.
This draft protocol is a welcome change in the mind-set of Dover and Shepway Councils but it is fiddling at the edges and just cosmetic surgery instead of the required transplant.
Come on Mr.Pickles get your
act together or Mr.Cameron will have to get someone else to do the job. - Paul B
Are you going to be putting the press release about The East Kent Local
Investment Plan on here?? - Presume that's stewart D of all parties?
it will be interesting to see if any senior posts do go as Reg suggests.
shared services
i'm sure in today's climate everyone supports
that one step further would be even better.
- Hi Stewart yes will add that to the above editorial item shortly...NOW
DONE.
Interesting stuff Reg... I think the press release suggests that its a first step and as these things take time to manouvre forward its probably going to be slow going.
Keef dont forget to log in before you post..that
way you wont be subject to delay on this page. - missives coming relentlessly now, the future is clearly all about larger local authorities whether unitary or
not.
assuming for one moment an issue that affects dover only is discussed, then councillors from thanet and shepway would have the majority of votes.
works the same way with thanet and shepway.
definitely works
against local democracy. - paulb
thanks not always by the computer so not to worried how long takes
wil be interesting to see how many senior posts
disappear, or if this new appointment is within the 2 councils.
If it is, is the guy/girl doing the job for nowt??? I don't think so - I think you have worked out that Head
of Paid Services means Chief Executive.
The proposal is to jointly appoint to a post managing Dover & Shepway Councils.
Evaluation of other jt. senior management positions would follow.
As we are giving advance
notice of the proposals it would not be appropriate to comment further. - Howard, there is a requirement from the funding agency the HCA to provide a
prioritised list of investment projects across East Kent.
East Kent councils & KCC have to agree between themselves what are priorities and are deliverable from a small financial investment pot.
As pointed out Dover is
ahead of the game with its local plan [LDF] already in place. The only one in East Kent. - Well it does look like that Mr Watkins has got the support
of most of us, And i do like to see that,because i think he does work well just in the wrong party. - paul
you are right, dover has been forward looking when
faced with the inevitable, many councils have buried their heads in the sand hoping the funding shortfall; would not come to fruition. - vic
no our paulw is in
the correct party
still will be interesting to see how it all pans out
will there be massive savings
wll the three councils survive
do we want the 3 councils to
survive - No I am right in what I say the blues are not true blues anymore, just a party of in beweens.
If they were true blues like 45 years ago ,I would still be with
them like I was +we would not be in the EU. - OH BRITAIN, where did we go wrong ?
We're "broke" and can't help our own Seniors, Veterans, Orphans, Homeless
etc.,?????????
Are you aware of the following?
The British Government provides the following financial assistance: -
BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER Weekly allowance £100
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS / REFUGEES LIVING IN
BRITAIN Weekly allowance £250
BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER Weekly Spouse allowance £25
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS / REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN Weekly Spouse allowance £225
BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER Additional weekly hardship
allowance £0;00
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS / REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN Additional weekly hardship allowance £100
BRITISH OLD AGED PENSIONER TOTAL YEARLY BENEFIT £6,000
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS / REFUGEES LIVING IN BRITAIN TOTAL YEARLY
BENEFIT £29,900 And they wonder why Britten is such a soft touch. I bet the papers wont print this one. if any one would like the source of this only to pleased to let them have it - those figures do seem rather exaggerated alan, so we would all like to know the source.
should the figures be correct i intend to put to good use a tin of boot polish
currently lying unused in the shed. - John Archer
CEO
LAMP
Luton Accommodation and Move on Project
www.lamp.uk.net
e-mail john@lamp.uk.net
Office
01582 431744
Mobile 07748370054
As Requested - looked at the website, seems they are a nice organisation run by christians that are trying to help local homeless
people in their vicinity.
could see no signs of rabble rousing there.
incidentally if a immigrant is here illegally, they do not qualify for any benefit dosh. - Thank you Howard for your input.
- howard
looked at the site
but couldn't find the figures quoted - There is the world of difference between an illegal imigrant and a refugee or asylum seeker. It matters to get the words right.
- it also matters for the facts to be
oorrect
there has been so many wrong stories floating around when i was on the council i disproved many of them - I received a similar email (might have been the same
one, but don't remember the Luton connection) about the financial support our own pensioners get and the financial support the immigrant people get, but chose not to post on here because of the furore last time I posted a joke that
suggested that our our interpretation of what we think our foreign friends receive, in relation to what we do, is slanted towards favouring the immigrant.
There was also an email about prisoners and old aged pensioners and how much
better it was to be in prison than an old age pensioner outside of prison.
There may well be a world of difference Bern on those three groups - can you tell us what it is ?
My understanding was that a refugee and asylum seeker are
both escaping persecution and terrorism in their own country and seek refuge in a safe country.
My further understanding was that they are supposed to seek haven in the first safe country outside of their own.
My understanding of
an illegal asylum seeker is someone who cannot/will not come to the U.K. legally, but on/in the back of a truck or under a train etc.
Then when he/she (but mostly he) gets here, claims asylum and so starts the long slow procedure that
will give him/her an NI number, benefits and ultimately a pension, having given nothing to the economy.
Or they disappear into the black economy and work for years on end for the people-traders who brought them in.
I'd love to
know this doesn't happen.
Roger
PS: As far as I am aware, there isn't anything racist in the above -if there is, I will apologise now and not post another word on the Forum.
- Roger
You are fully aware(or should be)that comments that you made before would end up upsetting people.
clearly in postings/voicing opinions you have shown you
have strong views on immigration.
i don't want to see you stop posting as per your last line but don't think you have the definations correct.
but as you have invited Bern to reply i will leave it there.
Your
aware(hopefully)roger that there is a lot of misinformed views on immigratiion which you hear every day, some put out deliberatly to cause upset/tension for whatever reason
some just spread through through lack of knowledge on the
subject.
some put out get worse through chinese whispers
i do wonder how this subject can go from one of shared council services to immigration and maybe the immigration thread should be a seperate one? - i have serious doubts about those figures that alan quoted, it does sound like someone is mischief making.
if anyone has a copy of the e mail perhaps they could post it here
so that we know the source?
keith mentions "chinese whispers", could be the case in this instance.
- howard
just the content itself suggests a biased
against immigrants.
the chinese whispers operated when i was on the council, one good example i was told an immigrant had paid "£2000 for a car
all cash, when i asked for the source, it started as some unknown person in elms
vale to an unknown person in maxton to an unknown person in tower hamlets
i was quite happyt to chat this over with those that had concerns
but the story was found to be a chinese whisper that had little or no truth in
it. - four five six
recieving you loud and clear
lol - lol Keef you caught
me there...just testing this new facility. The previous post didnt work right so deleted it and am back to try again.
As all can see we have a NEW picture uploading facility now here on the frontpage. This can be used by everyone
and you dont have to be a member. If anyone wants to upload a picture they can...with the usual proviso that it should all be respectable. We dont want to offend anyone. But if anyone wants to illustrate their posts by the inclusion of a
picture then they can do so. Very often as we know a picture tells a thousand words.
There still might be an adjustment or two needed as this is all brand spanking new.
As ever I must thank my man at the technical coalface
Chris Tutthill of Whyte Studio for all the background work. You dont often see him but he's brilliantly there! - Referring to the question in the forum A
puzzle for Kath and Scotchie
The building in question used to belong to Longleys Electrical and I think that the lighthouse was their trademark. - roger
i think you have misread bern's post.
illegal immigrants are one thing, refugees/asylum seekers another.
alan mentions both parties getting the same benefits, illegal immigrants are not entitled to anything
other than a day in court. - That's right, Howard: illegal anything has to be dealt with by the legal system and the courts and are entitled to only that until, if,
when, things are sorted and agreed and apprpriate steps taken, and should also be interned as a high risk of absconding. People seeking legitimate asylum or refuge are entitled to support during that process and as they have not
commited any illegal act need not be interned. In neither case is the outcome certain, but the due process needs to be taken, and unless we want people who are in serious and real fear of their lives starving on our streets it seems fair
to support them while they go through the correct and legal process. The illegal immigrants are often unseen and as Roger says, disappear into the ether and suck up the black economy (please don't misinterpret that sentence....!) and
are harder to manage. - I wish to inform the readers of Dover Forum, re. Cllr Paul Watkins' statement above, and with reference to KCC and future economic regeneration as
stated above, that since early 2010 I have been actively promoting the introduction of a port revenue on vehicles passing through Dover Port and all British Ports.
This revenue would be divided between the local Town and District
Councils, the County Council and the national Treasury. It is also part of my representation to the Secretary of State for Transport not to privatise Dover's port(s).
Towards the end of 2010, Kent County Council has made
proposals to the Government to introduce port revenues on vehicles passing through Dover's port, and I have recently received an email from KCC in Maidstone confirming this.
Although I am not able to state whether KCC got the
idea from my proposals to the Secretary of State, however I did inform KCC of my public campaign in Dover, which included a letter published in early 2010 in the Dover Mercury, and of my proposal in my representation to the Secreatary of
State for Transport.
Hence, considering the importance in future income to local Councils that my and KCC proposal would imply if accepted by the Government, I wish to point out that not everything that regards future financial
economic improvements in Dover and East Kent necessarily comes from the sole work in Dover of Cllr Paul Watkins. - I do not want to get involved with the immigrant
arguements all I will say is that a lot of the Eastern Europeans stop outside the Age Concern shop (on the yellow lines) so they can use another shop down the road.
They do not drive old bangers but very nice large cars including
people carriers, some are taxed others have no tax disc displayed, maybe they are insured maybe not. - Anything illegal, whether or not it involves immigrants of any kind,
should be dealt with properly. There have been a few incidents involving uninsured/untaxed cars - although to be fair that is also the case with the indigenous population as well!!! - the difference being we have a chance of catching our own home grown miscreants.
many of our visitors tend to buy a car at auction with cash and it is
never registered in their name. - True - the paper trail is often cold. And that in turn means it gets shunted down the priorities for the police because it is
harder to get a win. - A uninsured unregistered car found on a public road can be seized by the Police, surely PCOs on their patrol could compile details of suspect cars and set
the ball rolling by reporting their suspicions. - that did make me smile martin.
having the power to do something and actually carrying out the power are very different
things. - As any one seen that TV Prog UK border force they raided a shop were three illegal workers were, they were taken away and then bailed to go back to the
police station no one knows were they are now, surly if your here without the proper papers then you are lifted and put straight on a plain or boat out of UK, and I do know that there is an office next to megger that when people are
removed from the center at Weston heights they are taken there and given money to help get them back home before going to the ferry, but they came with nothing we are treating our own people as second class citizens and are Afraid to say
no to these people from eastern Europe. AND ITS NOT RACIST To Call these People Illegal Immigrants Its our own Government that has made many people in this Country a Racist by telling us all the time about them coming here.one poster
said they should seek help at the first Country they come to how many Country's are there between were they come from and here.We are the worlds soft Touch. - Alexander
Good to see you taking on the possibility of a "Local Levy" for traffic passing through Dover.
In 2005 I suggested this (My letter published in Dover Express dated 29th Sept 2005) as well as putting
it to KCC, Sec of State for Transport and local MP.
At that time no interest by any of the above so I wish you well with your current efforts.
- pat
that issue was aired at the time of your letter, there were many pushing for this levy.
when i enquired as to the practicality of it i was told that all money would have to go to central government, whereupon they would
decide how it was spent.
that is how it stands today unless k.c.c. can convince the coalition to pass a bill to amend that.
should be easy with the "localism" agenda!! - Pat S, (Sheratt?) thanks! As KCC is currently making the proposals to the Government, and my proposal by way of representation is being taken into consideration by the
Secretary of State for Transport, it could be a positive help if you added your view by contacting the appropriate Government office in London.
I hope you do, because it can all only help the economy, locally and nationally.
Once again, thanks! - Howard
Quite.
If it goes into a "Central Govt Pot" how much would come back into the local community....suggest very
little.
Interesting "Localism Bill" could perhaps deliver a possibility - Howard wrote "having the power to do something and actually carrying out the power are very
different things."
I saw the police ticket a driver, seize the people carrier he had been driving and then had it towed away, needless to say the foreign looking driver was not very pleased. This was outside the old Salvation
Army Hall so it does happen even in Dover. LOL.
- Thanks Pat! I will do my best to keep it up. It's good to know that other people share this same view. It is also
encouraging. - Alans mildly deranged post clearly bypassed most of us, and probably quite right. May be worth noting, though, that he is right that many people seeking
refuge and sanctuary arrive with nothing. And worth thinking that through as to why.
I do not promote or advocate illegal activity, and totally support the use of our legal system to manage law breaking by anyone, but to suggest
that a guy who arrives with nothing having risked his life many times over to get here and has possibly left family behind because he is scared and under threat of torture or death and is prepared to face our legal system to find
sanctuary or refuge is better off than someone in the UK onnbenefits is a little absurd. - It all depends how much dosh is handed over, Bern! From a financial point of view,
people with more money are better off than those with less money, when less money means very little of it indeed.
Personally I don't know how much an assylum seeker gets on money, or how much one gets after obtaining assylum.
I've never tried it! - I was asking what that difference is between an asylum seeker, a refugee and an illegal immigrant, Bern said they were all different, but there is no
real answer yet.
I went on to say what my understanding was, please elucidate for me.
If they are from say Iraq. Kurdistan, Romania, Poland, Slovakia or anywhere and they are seeking refuge or a safe haven, why travel all
the way across Europe, passing through many countries, to come to Britain ? why not stop on the way, any of those countries will give them refuge, any of them will give them asylum from persecution (and many do of course).
England
is Utopia for many, perhaps most, of them.
I look forward to a proper explanation of the differences and apologise in advance, for my ignorance.
Isn't an asylum seeker and a refugee the same thing ?
Roger - Roger
1. Asylum seeker is normally associated with the Geneva Convention and in simple terms it is a person that fears persecution and has
fled their home country because of their political beliefs. ie during Saddams rule in Iraq many Iraquis fled their home country because of his brutal regime.
2.Refugee is pretty much as the above but the person may have left their
country for reasons connected to race,creed colour or religion. ie Christians fleeing the bombing of churches in Pakistan. However you will find in this category persons who are really fleeing for economic reasons ie the chance of
working or sponging off the UK govt.
3. Illegal immigrants can be those persons that entered the UK clandestinely ie by rowing boat or hidden in trucks or those that gained entry to the UK by deception ie lying to the immigration
or visa officer as to their true intentions of coming to the UK. ie they apply as a visitor but intend to stay,marry or work etc.
Hope that rough guide is of assistance but I am a bit rusty and it's been a long
night. - marek
not bad boyo good description
hope you are well - roger
people from romania,
poland and slovakia are legally entitled to be here, they are not asylum seekers. - Not sure what the confusion is. Illegal immigrant=someone here illegally who
hides and does not attempt to seek sanctuary but enters the black economy - Sanctuary is a lovely word that sums up beautifully what many poor souls are seeking. Asylum seeker=someone seeking asylum through the proper channels, wherever
they end up. If the UK is viewed as safe, I am proud. Not "a soft touch" or "easy". Anyone who has seen what most (not all) people have to endure to settle here would not use the word "soft". There are some who abuse the system,
true, and they should be more robustly weeded out, no question. Try, though, to imagine where some have come from and the Wild West mentality they have left behind and try to picture the level of adjustment needed.
- Howard said "that did make me smile martin.
having the power to do something and actually carrying out the power are very different things."
I quite agree
Howard, If there are as many uninsured untaxed unregistered cars on the roads of Dover as indicated in the posts here then perhaps the area Commander should be asked to have a extended run of Operation Cubit, where untaxed cars are
removed and crushed, and get the ANPR unit to spend some time in Dover to deal with any offences it turns up. Responding to local issues is what the Police should be doing. - If an asylum seeker received asylum in Britain on the grounds of a
collective situation in their country of origin, then in theory, and according to the principle of precedent, any person from that country would be able to receive asylum in Britain after arriving here.
If asylum were granted on
the grounds of an individual situation, then one would ask why that particular person is being – or has been – persecuted in their country of origin, but not the other people who live there.
If the person is innocent and has been
persecuted, then the laws in their country of origin have not been respected. However, if the individual persecution is a norm, then we are back to base one: anyone in that country could be entitled to asylum in Britain after arriving
here! - No offence, but bo****ks. Each individuals situation may be different and impacted by the political players in that country, so I suppose technically your second
statement is accurate, but what was the point of it? Or indeed, your post? - OK, I apologise sincerely for that last posting - I just get a little disturbed by the almost
blanket hostility towards people who have often suffered more than we can imagine. There are some who are just fakers, but so many aren't. And being pedantic and arguing semantics won't
help. - i think that alex is alluding to people who have been "persecuted" by the police in their country of origin becuse of their criminal activities.
germany took in
many kurds believing they were persecuted, when in fact they were members of terrorist organisations.
we tend to specialise in egyptian terrorists. - martin/howard
it is untrue to say untaxed vehicles are not dealt with.
as has been mentioned operation cubit happens on a regular basis
as does the reporting/dealing with those still not complying
if anyone
has details(factual) number plates etc
i'm sure the police would love to hear
k - keith
the proper procedure is to report untaxed vehicles to d.v.l.a in
the first instance.
i done this twice in the space of two months, they are still untaxed.
the reason i reported them was because of the inconsiderate parking which stopped buggies going past on the pavement. - Bern! I have some experience, having lived also in Europe.
Let me assure you that, for about the last 10-15 years, almost every night hundreds of people have been
arriving by boat from Libia (not Libians though) to southern Italy. They are all seeking economic benefits, either to work or to receive asylum seeking money. All who arrive this way are entering Italy AND the EU
illegaly.
Something very similar goes on in Spain, where many young people try jumping over the fences of two Spannish enclaves in North Africa. They are all seeking economic benefits, either by finding work or getting asylum
money. Again, it is considered illegal immigration by Spain and the EU.
In the case of Italy, they all claim to have wroked in Africa, saved money and paid fantastic sums to people to transport them illegaly to Europe.
The Italian government has despaired time and again, and usually allows them all to stay and to be 'legallised' by allowing them to find work legally in Italy.
Once this happens, they are entitled to vote in local
elections, receive an EU passport after five years, and then go wherever they want in the EU. Many, though, go straight away toother EU countries, claiming to be victims of horrendous attrocities!
A few years back this has been
cause of disputes between the Italian and other EU governments.
Spain's case is somewhat similar.
As for all those enetering Britain, I think Roger has rightly pointed out that they have passed many borders of European
countries, evidently without asking for asylum, before reaching our shores, and this does seem to be outside of the rules and regulations of asylum seeking. - By way of doing something different and highlighting our new picture facility I have put the latest info from the Lifeboat guys here.
Dover Lifeboat Crew say ‘Support our sculling for RNLI SOS 2011’
Dover RNLI’s volunteer crew and fundraisers have set themselves the challenge of rowing the equivalent distance of Dover to Dunkirk on a rowing machine for the charity’s 2011 SOS fundraising campaign. The challenge will take
place outside St Mary’s Church on Saturday 29 January.
The lifeboat crew will be taking it in turns to clock up the miles with a target distance of 47 miles (75 km). Dunkirk was chosen as this year’s ‘destination’ due to its links
with Dover from the ferry industry and with the RNLI as a number of lifeboats were used on the beaches around Dunkirk during the evacuation of allied troops in 1940.
The event will start at 1000hrs and there will be guest
appearances throughout the day from Stormy Stan, the RNLI mascot. Children under 12 years visiting the event will have the chance to enter a competition to win a prize including a guided tour of the lifeboat.
Previously the crew
have successfully achieved their challenges of rowing to Boulogne in 2009 and a stationary triathlon in 2010 saw them ‘travel’ almost 150 miles.
Volunteer crew member Helen Tomkin said: “Our previous challenges have raised almost
£4000 for the RNLI which has been used to fund training, maintenance, new lifeboats and emergency call outs. Everyone at the Station is very proud of the generosity the people of Dover have shown in supporting our previous SOS challenges
and we hope this will continue this year.”
PICTURE: picture shows TV weathergirl Nazaneen Ghaffar outside M&S with Steve Ladner RNLI a year or two back.
Picture by Barry W-
S. - good to see our lifeboat people being highlighted, let's hope the weather stays fair for the 29th.
i believe there is only one paid crew member(the
engineer), they really need public support for this fundraiser. - howard
you name one of a number of ways to report vehicles
i can only say those vehicles i
have reported or others have reported are no longer on the road
the bigger question of cars on pavements is a bigger debate - Let's hear it for the lifeboats! Thank you
PaulB. - I'll be there on the 29th to give the RNLI my full support. I remember taking the photo of Nazaneen with Steve a year or two ago, a really nice girl and Steve is a nice
chap too. - Well done there, at Pitman's Training! Compliments!
- good to see a dover success story, some
dover legends in the pictures there at pitman's training centre.
nice to see colette continuing her fight back to good health. - Here an old postcard that I have is a to start the new picture facility as no one has posted one yet appart from the Boss.
It looks like the start of the Easten Docks, I wonder if
any one can put a date to it. - Well done to Pitman’s and can I echo Howards words and say Colette it’s great to see you ‘back’ and looking well.
- Well done there BrianC, you are the first reader to upload a picture and very welcome you are too. It is NOT essential to be a member to upload a good picture and its a
fascinating pic too.
Sadly I myself cant help with the date of your picture but hopefully someone will shortly.
And yes a huge well done to Pitmans. A course there increases employment prospects no end as you can see from
the info above in the editorial, thats why you get guys like our MP Charlie and our Mayor Sue turning out in force...and yes indeed as mentioned, its great to have ColetteB
mending. - Very nice to see ColetteB back in circulation again.
- I'll second
that! - Whoops!! I have developed a "q"!
- nice to see colette back in circulation
- It's good to have Colette's marketing expertise back in action again, Thanks for your good wishes chaps and chapesses.
- aha welcome back to the land of the living colette,but over do it will you.
- Re the below image of the Eastern Docks -
I have that postcard and it is difficult to date as their isn't much detail, but looking back at the records I would say approx 1904/5 as the Eastern Arm is well progressed. At this point the works have been going 6/7 years and nearing
completion. - I thought I had put a posting congratulating Paula and Pitmans, but it's disappeared.
Not to worry; well done to Paula and her team there at
Pitman Training.
So pleased to see Colette back in circulation - hope it's going well Colette.
Onwards and upwards.
Roger - Well done Paul
(Scotchie) there re the picture. Interesting stuff.
Roger there is no other post in the system...have just checked...sometimes members forget to log in so their post gets delayed in the system, but no nothing there, nothing in the
system. Maybe you forgot to press the Submit button. Easily done at our age !!lol
Thought I might see you at the Pitmans grand opening? - The very latest
on last night's shooting can be found at thisiskent dot co dot uk slash dover. - Rhys,
At work .I cannot find the Dover Express number .I have checked the Webb Site
also Telephone book .
Please contact me Dover 823956
Sue Nicholas - Thanks for the info Paul aka Scotchie, I guessed it must have been around the begining of the last
century.
Here is another postcard from around that time showing how the harbour should look in 1907.
- Thanks Paul - I didn't know anything about Paula's move until I called her yesterday about this work-placement initiative. I would have been very happy to have been there to congratulate - on her new figure too !
You
may be right on the senior moment, thankfully not too many of them.
Roger - WELL DONE TO PAULA AND KIRI, COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED TO TWO NICER LADIES, AND THE
FIGURES ARE TO DIE FOR. - thanks for your post rosie, is your business the one at the end of dour street close to
nettos? - Yes great figures there and no doubt great economic figures behind the scenes too and very good luck to them. We were delighted to bring you all the
pictures and the info. - This massive crane has just manouvered itself into the harbour in the past few minutes, it is now propped
aginst the Prince of Wales pier. Is this the beginning of the new proposed development....or is that still on hold?
Whatever the case anyway this is a very large crane and here for something substantial I can guess.
The
picture is a bit lifelessly grey but you can get the idea. - I noticed the crane too this morning as I left for work. Interesting development! Could it be some
preparatory work for the new marina which under the T2 plans would be located here? - Just remembered, weren't they using the old hovecraft pad to build part of the
dolphin that is required to extend one of the piers in the Eastern Docks for the new P&O ferry? Presumably they were lifting it on to the barge and then moving it over to the Eastern? Perhaps someone can confirm? There was me getting
excited about the new marina..... - NOTHING to do with T2 that is not going ahead at this time.
- i
thought that kevin was being tongue in cheek about terminal 2.
won't happen in our lifetime. - T 2 is at least a decade away, if at
all. - Yes the crane worked in position for something like THREE hours only so it was a false dawn and then moved back to the Eastern Docks..I think Kevin has it right there.
Seems to be the case.
While on the topic of harbour just had this crime reducing info through from DHB...
***************************
Park at the Port – you’re in safe hands!
The Port of Dover has been awarded the Park Mark® Award once again for safe, secure car parking at the Cruise Terminal and Eastern Docks, celebrating over ten years of participation in the Safer Parking Scheme. The coveted award is
granted to car park operators that have put in place measures to help deter criminal activity and anti-social behaviour.
The Park Mark® Safer Parking Award is an initiative of the Associations of Chief Police Officers (ACPO/S),
aimed at reducing crime and the fear of crime in parking areas and is awarded by the British Parking Association (BPA).
Customers using one of the Port of Dover’s car parks can rest assured that the area has been vetted by the
Police and has measures in place in order to create a safe environment such as improved lighting, signage and surveillance, including regular security patrols of parking areas.
The Port of Dover currently has 1,120 car parking
spaces situated next to the Cruise Terminals and short and long-stay spaces to suit every need at the multi-story car park based at the ferry terminal. All are safe, secure and very convenient – perfectly placed for a cruise holiday or
business trip.
Kate O’Hara, Head of Commercial and Marketing said; “We are proud to be awarded a tenth accolade for the Port’s car parks. It proves that we have consistently achieved the highest standard necessary for a Park
Mark® Award and it is good news for our customers who can enjoy peace of mind as they embark on their trip.”
Picture by Paul 'Scotchie'
Wells
************************** - T 2 will never be done. That money has gone into someones pocket, if it has not then why not build it.. some one knows more
than what they are saying. - Just noted that the aforementioned crane of large dimension is back in position this morning again if anyone wants to take a look at what its
up to. It sneaks in quietly and goes just as quietly.
Ive taken another picture but its just as grey as yesterdays so not really worth putting it up. - www.kentonline.co.uk/kentonline/news/2011/january/19/southeastern_kcc.aspx
I welcome the KCC Rail Action Plan but urge for the draft proposal to stipulate that the highspeed extension to Deal is a requirement not an
aspiration. Southeastern have consistently hidden behind the terms of the existing Integrated Kent Franchise to rebuke this urgently needed inclusion, their management seem inept of offering a passenger focused
service.
Furthermore I question whether recent rhetoric from Charlie Elphicke MP for Deal about this being his key priority of 2011 is being matched with real action. The continued collapse of services provided from Southeastern
which is now becoming farcical is causing huge difficulties to his constituents of Deal and Dover. - I am beginning to think that that the need for T2 was being
overplayed by DHB to try and justify and force through privatisation. - In 2010 DHB based the T2 idea on a calculation, that vehicle-related traffic in Dover Port (cars and
lorries) would increase by 70% within 27 years.
May-be this calculation has since been reviewed and considered to be more speculative than realistic. But one would need official confirmation of some kind in order to know if these
previsions for traffic-increase have changed.
An increase in port-traffic of those dimensions would imply, at least in theory, an increase of 70% in trade with other countries over the next 27 years.
Carbon-emission laws
and carbon foot-print policies, as well as world-wide oil prices, would probably enforce a re-thinking of the whole calculation as to whether lorry traffic can increase by 70%. - Not necessarily a 70% in trade with other countries it is also about Dover being more competative and take business away from other Ports... could the recent loss of some of the Hammonds business be to do with the site being
quite restricted where it is ?? - Martin is right, T2 will never see the light of day and was always a ruse.
- Howard
yes its part of Adams Printers just at the end of Dour Street - T2 is dead and buried but Boggle eyed Bob has gauranteed his pay off package to two
and a half years,whatever happens be that sacking or replacement.Two and a half years at 240,000,should he not be a merchant banker. - The A.G.M. for the UKIP party in Dover is on
the 17Feb if you would like to come along just email myself,Thank you. - Which Phone Box Vic,just in case I can find a UKIP
supporter - lol! John thats a good one, but seriously UKIP appears to be growing especially here in Dover, as the main parties are not listening to Joe Public on the EU. I think Vic
is at last getting the recognition for some of his local efforts. He has even caught the ear of national Leader Nigel Farage who joined this Forum on account of the increased interest locally. He has yet to post but perhaps any minute
now...we wait with baited breath.
But with regard to the Port, yes indeed chief exexcutives do get large salaries but its the way of the world isnt it.
Its all gone very quiet from Charlie...both on his Port Privatisation and
on the Rail situation.
We are using a slightly diffferent idea on the frontpage, just getting the hang of the new possibilities. have uploaded FOUR pictures to appear right across the top of the page at the top. They are showing
fine on Mozilla Firefox which I use to upload pictures and so on, but on Internet Explorer it all looks choppy as one pic has dropped down underneath. sooo irritating! How is it your end??..and why does that happen!!??
Grrrrr!! - paulb
I think this has all been misunderstood.
UKIP did ok but you have to reflect on why, yes politicians(including ukip) are not
viewed in a favourable way.
and with this we have the cobbled together govt decisions
in Dover's KCC electiuon recently we saw the lib dem leader admit they have no money to fight the election, they were(because of
the co olition govt) going to get humiliated at the election, so they put up a Deal candidate.
so all this needs to be taken into account on this.
what it's about is sustainability, will UKIP improve on this
result
thats to be seen in may, im more doubtful but im sure all parties will give them the respect they deserve - Charlie was on PMs Question time yesterday .He cannot be
every where all the time .He was speaking re the hospital .
- PaulB
I can see all pics in a line on IE7. viewing full screen at 1024x768. If I reduce the window
width by a very small amount they wrap to two lines.
Browser brands have slightly differing interpretations of how to handle width, some will use 100% of the available screen, some have a margin. All this can upset carefully
crafted image displays.
I would suggest either using just three pictures, or using four slightly narrower pictures and see if that helps. - Ah thanks Ken thats very
interesting. I find Mozilla Firefox works better for me right across the board...so was disappointed my IE didnt see it the same way. And yes they were carefully crafted to fit or so I thought, so I am "well gutted!!" ...as they say in
Souv London.
Ermmm Sue.. Charlie did not speak at PMQ the other day unless I nodded off or something half way through. Im bewildered now as Im sure I watched it.
For those of you missing Charlie
and wondering where he is lately here is a picture of the man himself which was indeed taken during PMQ... but some time back. When he spoke on the Port.
The Poppy gives some indication as to when it
was.
- I was listening to Radio Kent and I heard Charlies voice so I assume they had picked his question up during the Health debate ?He was talking
about GPS commisioning beds and the proposed local hospital .
- Our MP is not making much headway as a MP, and I think we might just see him standing down next time and
going back to working in the city. - I disagree .i was only thinking the other day Charlie often raises questions.He attends local events as was seen last week .Quietly
beavering away ,stealth.Just over Six months is no time at all . - The fit of the pics is down to screen resolution, I use IE8 and Safari and no problems with either. Laptop
has screen width of 1440 and room for two more pics, desktop has screen width of 1280 and room for one more.
Nice pics too, have you sent them to the town council ;-)
- Would you believe it .I have just received a letter from Charlie via House Commons .He requires my help on a local planning issuie .
We beaver away . - Does not get my house work done though
- Thanks guys re the technical comments..Ive changed the pictures now, made them smaller. Its not as effective lookswise but
it works..errmm hopefully. Its a compromise.
Well done Sue keep beavering away, and forget the housework! - sue/paulb
i think you will find charlie
spoke in the commons yesterday on the dover hospital
but NOT at prime ministers questions time as yesterday was thursday!!
and the house was nearly empty when he was speaking
- PaulB
Well done.
Tried same setup as before with your new images sizes, works correctly, even when I shrink the screen to silly sizes.
- Thanks for the feedback Ken greatly appreciated. Im glad all seems to be working...I'll get the hang of it all one of these days!!lol!!
Didnt realise that about Charlie yesterday. So not PMQ but the Health debate..well
done to him. Must try and find a copy of what was said as Charlie doesnt send us any info. Not like dear ol Gwyn who was happy to co-operate.
Keef I missed one of your posts because it came in on delay..its a bit down the page now
Im afraid. Always best if you log in. It was the one at 8.16 re UKIP and I just didnt spot it for clearance alas! - Thanks Keith for the clarification
- Some varying views on Charlie on here, my opinion so far is he seems a likeable chap who gets excited about a cause but after the initial publicity he loses interest, no real
substance. - I think the staying power comes with age and experience .No wise jokes Ian and Howard
- i wil refrain
from comment susan, whether nigel does likewise is a matter for him. - Charlie also spoke last week on the PORT in the Localism Bill with Eric Pickles
responding. - NOT that I'm stalking him BUT his local home seems to be un-occupied most
weekends? - could be roughing it in knightsbridge.
- I think T2 will happen, but yes, it will take
time. I don't buy the idea that the DHB have gone to all that trouble just to push through a new form of ownership for the port. The reality is that once the economy recovers, traffic levels and in particular freight, will come back
and the port doesn not have the capacity. Without T2, Dover will be one big car park! - Kevin , you have it right without a T2/Western Approaches option
Dover has
much to worry about.
Transport stagnation, pollution, town centre isolation. Local commuter bypass issues.
Could add more.
The Eastern Docks can only cope with very limited development.
It is reaching/or has
reached capacity.
Forget todays issues and stretch/ create open minds.
- Rufus,
Does the man have pull his curtains for you?
If you are not stalking him you obviously have some sort of obessional neurosis.
Give me you address and I'll check when you are at home. - So Keith, your message on the recent County Council Election is that if the Lib Dem vote had not collapsed because they could not run a campaign the Conservatives would have won.
Cold comfort for your mate Gordon and
your fellow travellers. - haven't heard the term "fellow travellers" for a few decades now.
i seem to remember it was used to describe
people with marxist views that took their orders direct from the kremlin.
nowadays it would be mostly ascribed to the "gippo" fraternity, pardon my use of the vernacular. - I'll leave you to explain your posting to the global public Howard.
Obviously you have had diversity & equality training. - Ukip stoped the blues geting the county seat and also got the reds in by the back door. I will try and not let that happen next time.
- Paul Watkins, following up on your post about T2, if it came into operation to cater for increased port traffic, it would create more pollution in Dover, as DHB intend T2 to
take on an increase in traffic, not to reduce the volume of traffic already passing through Eastern Docks.
How can an envisaged 70% increase in port traffic cause less, rather than more pollution in
Dover? - Standing traffic causes pollution. Moving traffic without backlog (no operation stack) will cause less pollution, and so will larger new less polluting ships that
T2 can operate - Helen Deeble of P&O was on TV yesterday saying that the new ship would save on fuel costs in these competitive times. The new ferry uses the same amount of fuel
of the old one it replaces but carries much more cars trucks per crossing. More volume of traffic carried for the same fuel is a saving for the planet...and P&O. Less burning of fossil fuel per truck/car
transported.
- I think the key point on T2 is that the traffic is coming, whether we like it or not. That's one of the reasons why P&O and other ferry
companies, have invested in bigger tonnage even in the current difficult economic climate. They are looking to the future.
It's now time to start planning for a bigger port which is what DHB have done.
Simply through its
geography, Dover will also be the hub for HGV traffic. At least with T2 we start to segregate traffic and stop it from travelling through the town. There is a clear strategy in place with calls for a second Thames crossing, dualling of
the A2, etc. What it needs now is for concerted public opinion to get behind these plans which are without doubt the best option currently on the table for addressing this issue. - Our roving forumite Pat Sherratt managed to get on the inaugural sailing of the Spirit of Britain from Dover to Calais yesterday. This of course is the brand new ship we all
made such a fuss of last week. Pat has sent in some fascinating pictures of its interior and here we are...all being well they should upload now..still getting the hang of this new system...
Well done Pat..excellent stuff indeed. Shows us all what the interior is
like.
We are always interested in picture features if anyone wants to contribute. Do it via box above.
All Pictures by Pat
Sherratt
*********************** - Some great pictures there Pat of the inside of the ship, it looks quite impressive, and will certianly be worth a trip
across. - You will not get an investment in T2 as long as the presnt incumbants are in place.They have no intention of putting money into a structural regeneration that
big.My impression is they never intended to.It was used as a justification clause for one mans legacy project and to line a few indivduals very greedy projects.The key now is privatisation,the old truism that the 'traffic is coming is
flawed' traffic flows will not justifiy such private investment for at least a generation.Welcome to your future Dover.
And Paul B's photos show you why it will not
happen.The ferry operators are going for bigger ferries not more of them.- Have just heard from a member of the mooring staff she has blown a reverse thrust bearing and some
safety issue with the Rails on deck only coming up to the waist and not chest high as ordered - Paul I have lost my login details have sent e-mail but no action sorry to
be a pain but it was lost when i had a crash with computer put in new system and all is back. Thank you . - PAULW
As you know the ib dems votes went mainly to ukip and
labour
the tories knew they were sio unpopular on the doorstep they hardly even bothered to turn out.
very half hearted campaign
they had no hope
as you know of
course - Now it is the turn of the reds,on the news this morning,that the big money men backing the reds have left the party because of the partys new leader, and talk that one
or two of them are now turning their support to UKIP. Well they are most wecome. - U.K.I.P. PARTY is the only party on the up ,you can join this winning party today by
just emailing victormatcham@yahoo.com.We are now going to get more support and funding from our HQ to help in the May Locals,Thank you Vic matcham - I think we have got
the message . - UKIP is the true conservative party,"WHY" because we are trying to conserve our nation and not give it to the EU,if you wish to like myself to
conserve our nation with all its history,then there is only one party you can support UKIP. - vic
this is what was always suspected that ukip is
only a protest tory vote - Wrong I said that UKIP are the main Conservative party,Like the reds the blues are in avery gray area not going one one way or the other. With UKIP
the whole nations knows which way we are going,we have never moved on anything we have said. - quite correct vic
UKIP has never moved on anything
probably why they
don't win lol
if you sincerely believe the tories arn't going towards the right you are badly mistaken.
once cameron is forced out, the party wil lurch to te right - Hello Alan
Didnt receive an email from you, have just looked nothing there...but yes I have your log in details, will send them over to you shortly. If you have any further probs let me know. I will use the email in
your membership details. - Keith talks sense - UKIP (United Kent Idiots Party) Hahaha!
People like Vic Matcham make a mockery of politics.
I've got a lot
of time for the three main parties and think they work hard and do a difficult job, but these loonie minority parties just take the votes away from the serious ones, a waste of space.
Well said Keith! - i disagree alf, i think it is important that all shades of opinion are represented.
a lot of people go to the polling stations knowing that their preferred candidate
will not gain office,nice to let off steam though. - Well Keith the reds have got one life long supporter then.
- I disagree with you Howard. Letting all these minority parties who don't have a cat in hells chance of winning, like ukip, just makes for a very indiscisive result because
there are too many. People should vote for one of the proper parties or not at all. It's like the monster raving looney party, the lets have a party party etc - just a total waste of space. In my mind there should be Labour,
Conservative or Liberal Democrats - end of. Too much choice is a bad thing in politics. I haven't decided yet who I will vote for but it certainly won't be a wasted vote on a silly party.
Vic Matcham says there's only one way ukip
are going ....... he's right there - down and out lol.
DEATH of the MARKET
Well it was a rainy oul saturday. These pictures were taken about 9.30 and show little sign of life. Market Sq...the proposed home of the new
market, under the shadow of the highly popular(!!) screen was supposed to be the hub of excitement by now. But business takings were and are slight, so stalls are failing to turn up...especially so at the hint of bad weather.
The
original large fruit and veg stall further along Biggin Street was there though. The people running that stall always turn up, rain or howling gale, to do good trade. Once people know you are reliable and will always be there, then
business can be good.
Two other stalls did show but the place was deserted, the spirit of market was missing.
All the guys from the Chamber of Commerce who launched this idea are all gone
now.- I appreciate that the weather hasn't been "market" weather recently and would put off all but the very hardy, also of course many market stall-holders
take their annual break in January and/or February.
I would have thought though, that the market-stall holders we have had since it began - the last Saturday in May, have simply not been impressed with the way it has been
organised (this is the biggest story I got from them) and it doesn't create enough footfall to make it worth their while.
Funny, as Paul has said the fruit and veg turn up, rain or shine.
Is it time for another
organisation to take over and do it properly ?
Roger - Alf Dunber,UKIP have over 1 million paid up members,it has 13 EMPs,over 300 local cllrs, we have a very
good full Manifesto which you can download. We have 3 members siting in the house of Lords,two very well off backers, one a ex blue. UKIP at this time is in 4thplace as a main party,and some time this year could very well over take the
yellows into 3rd place,that all sounds like a party on the way up,and it is not a looney party,or are you taking about myself. - The market is in the wrong place it wants
to be more central to the middle of the shopping area. As I have said on the forum a lot of stall holders have this time of year off as trade is always quiet. - what gets me
is when one arrives on a saturday morning the screen proclaims that there will be arts and crafts and food from all over the world.
surely it is time that someone else took over the running of it. - Mr Matcham, my name is Dunbar not as you have typed it. I still stand by what I said about ukip and all the other little parties. There is no way they will ever be in power
so why take votes from the three proper parties? You really need to wake up and smell the coffee sir.
With regard to your question am I talking about you - no I am talking about ukip. Having said that, as a fairly new reader of this
website I have been reading back through the archives and find it interesting that you seem to stand for anything going. I see Keith has berated you several times for wasting money you could be spending on your wife and family. I only
know what I've read and know neither of you personally so I can only believe what I read. I understand that Keith used to be a labour councillor and a very good one, again from what I've read and heard.
I'm sorry if I offend
anyone but I do feel very strongly that if there were just the three proper parties standing for election there would be a bigger turnout and a much tighter rein on Dover meaning more would get done. Or am I being naive? I don't think
so. - Alf
A few replies if i may.
im a good friend of vic's and although vic knows full well i think hes wasting his time via UKIP we do have a freedom of
choice, and whilst your correct they are ony ever likely to be a protest party(my personal view) they do have that right.
it's realy up to the electorate to decide if they feel vic/ukip are a waste of space.
as to vic, hes
not been well suffering with his feet etc, as a friend i have told him, his health should come first as well as his family
and at one p;oint (for a few hours anyway lol) he was taking this advice and was arranging to spend more time
with family even announcing in press his retirement from politics
i don't think it helped him a day later to say he was back in politics
and more recently stood in every seat he could.
i do admire vics passion although not
the way he goes about trying to achieve his aims.
but the electorate have, and wil make the decisions in the future on whether or not vic/ukip are trustworthy or people want him in any council chamber.
vic knows im
consistent in teling him his best bet having been defeated in so many elections(heavily in most)that his best route would be to spend more time with his wife/family but that is only a choice vic can make.
next may we have local
elections in Dover and again the electorate can decide vics fate.
if ukip dont win seats they will just be seen as a protest party
you cant go on forever trailing a fair way behind theperson winning the seat and classing it a
success
only winning seats is success to my way of thinking.
so lets see what happens in may.
the final thing of course is knowing what vic actually stands for, like a few posters he has chopped and changed parties just in
the interest of getting elected, not the best motivation for people to vote for you.
i predicted on here that ukip will remain a protest party, and won't make any breakthough's in may
lets see if im right
you will
also notice that im the only one brave enough to predict who may win seats and the ones to watch
but thats my open ness
on the question of my being a cllr
yes i was a Labour District cllr serving and not losing
an election for 25 years in a marginal seat
serving with forumites such as roger, barryw paulw, john goodwin, sue nicholas, gordon cowan, nigel collor, jan tranter, who have i missed????
i was also a county cllr for 13 years until
i decided i had done my time and retired from the council
as for if i was any good, i was as good as the next guy/girl
i made sure i represented the constituents views, and did my bit
i never forgot some sincere advice before i
stood for the first time
it dont matter how good you may perform in the whitfield council chamber, it's the electorate who decides your fate
others who stood against me didnt always think of that, one being the out going
tory who chose to run down the very people who he wanted to vote for him.
but i always did what i could, was devoted to the cause, had many a battle
but now i leave it to others, i just get involved with friends and canvass
for them
anyway alf thanks for the kind words
hope you enjoy forum
you havn't offended anyone
it's about open honest chat/debate
vic is thick skinned(lol)
- NoI am not upset in anyway, but will say I have been a Town cllr in the pass for four years,And at this time I am a parish Cllr.
- to clarify your last post vic
you were a town cllr for 1 term, and voted out in the same seat at every election since
yes your a parish cllr(uncontested)
so
yep
suppose thats success??????????????????????? - Alf I would even reduce it to the two main parties. You only had to listen to Nick Clegg yesterday on TV saying how he
couldnt deliver what was in his manifesto because he wasnt elected as an outright winner. So clearly from the outset he was never going to win outright so his manifesto therefore under his own admission isnt worth the paper its written
on..or the time and money spent on it.
I think this recent election gone, will teach the public for possibly the first time ever, that a manifesto from other than the two main parties is a complete waste of time. For the simple
reason that no other party, other than the two main players can deliver anything. All anyone needs to do to confirm this is to ask Nick Clegg.
Although a third party can influence who gains power in some cases as we know...and
although they do a lot of public huffing and puffing they deliver very little.
* *
Just to hark back to the bleak market prospect in central Dover. My feeling is this market is dead in the water. If market holders
wanted to be there they would be there...just like the fruit and veg outfit, always there every time. The motivation has dissipated as nobody seems to be powering it
forward. - I do not agree with you on this Paul any party in power is only as good as its opposition to it,but at this time at Westminster the opposition is very
very poor. - vic
obviously i dont agree nor do the 100's of thousands of people who voted in labour mp's across the country
and didnt vote in any ukip
mp's
paulb
what happened to my earlier post on here? - Keef I luv ye like a brother but for the umpteenth time..LOG In!! otherwise your post has to wait to be
approved. Thats the system on the frontpage. I told you this many times, and just a few days ago too, and you said you didnt mind because you are not always near a computer. There's nobody manhandling any posts though so no concerns
needed, all is fine my man. Your post is down below.
But as a member if you LOG IN it goes up LIVE!!
Vital that you remember this for instant action.
There we are...dont say i didnt tell yer...lol!
Anyone out
there want to become a member and join in the debate let us know by email...dover7@msn.com. - We are a newparty and it takes time to build,but building it is
happing going from strength to strengh each year. - the problem with the front page is that someone might post without logging in at say midday, it could be that three or
more posts are on there before anyone logs in to approve the comment.
what then happens is that the original post is placed 3 or more posts down to fit in with the time it was oroginally typed so that there is a good chance
people will have missed it. - Yes PaulB, I agree, two parties would be even better. Would certainly get rid of all the parties just playing at politics.
Keith
thank you for your reply. I can see why you are so popular because you have an open mind and a very fair one. I had to laugh at your comment at 3.37 today, this Vic matcham doesn't seem to demand a lot of respect in regard to politics,
specially as you say he has changed parties so often. I admire your tenacity in staying with the party you love through thick and thin - well done sir.
On a different subject, having read about Paul Wells book - Dover past and present
- I went to the former Sussex book shop and bought a copy, what a fascinating book it is, well done that man - excellent read. Thank you Dover forum for bringing it to my attention. - alf
you seem to have read the forum thoroughly and mention the local history book published by one of our members in conjunction with a partner.
paulb always
welcomes new members who wish to contribute to debate here.
a simple e mail would mean that your comments go out live. - Thank you Howard, I have now emailed
Paul. - Thanks Alf, glad you enjoyed the book :)
- I suspect Keith does not notice he is not logged
in until it is too late, I know I only find out when Forum Latest News is black not red. - NEW EXHIBITION TELLS THE STORY OF
DOVER DURING
SECOND WORLD WAR
A new exhibition has opened at Dover Museum telling the story of front-line Dover during the Second World War.
The exhibition, including local memories from the museum’s oral history archive, runs until 3
May. It follows the impact of the military development of the Second World War on Dover, and also the day to day lives of people in the town, living with rationing, nights in air raid shelters, evacuations and closed schools. It
features many personal objects from this period, including gas masks, photographs, uniforms, air raid patrol items, information leaflets and even tins of dried egg!
In May 1940, over 200,000 of the 338,000 men evacuated from
Dunkirk passed through Dover, filling the town and railway station with soldiers, sailors and airmen. Vice Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay controlled the evacuation from his headquarters in tunnels beneath the castle. Shells and bombs fell on
Dover, causing 3,059 alerts and killing 216 civilians. 10,056 premises were damaged and many had to be demolished. Dover became a symbol for Britain's wartime bravery, the centre of East Kent's 'Hellfire Corner'.
For more
information about Dover Museum please see www.dovermuseum.co.uk
NOTE: the picture is a still from The Battle of Britain movie.
* *
ALF I DONT APPEAR TO HAVE AN EMAIL FROM YOU. PLEASE SEND AGAIN ..to
dover7@msn.com - I can see that if Alf Dunbar joins us as a member there will be some very good posts beween us,and I lookward to taking him on.
- On Saturday 22nd January 2011 The Court of Dover attended the FICA (Federation of Independent Carnival Associations) Farewell Ball at St Finbar's Church in Aylesham.
This Annual Event invites Courts from across Kent who are members of FICA to attend, it is always the last event of the season allowing the girls one last get together before new courts for 2011 are selected.
Junior Dover
Princess Miss Ellen Habbershaw came 1st in the Junior Belle of The Ball Competition and Junior Rosebud Queen April Winter came 1st in the Rosebud Belle of The Ball Competition, competing against court members from across Kent.
The Committee are extremely proud of Ellen and April as they have had a turbulent year and along with other Court Members have shown true grit and determination.
The Court of Dover will be attending the selection event for
the Deal Regatta Queen and her princesses on Saturday 5th February 2011 at the Castle Community College Theatre in Deal.
The Court of Dover Selection Event will be held at Bluebirds on Saturday 14th May 2011 with Dover Carnival
taking place on Sunday 3rd July 2011.
Shown Left is Folkestone Princess Miss Hannah Garton who came 1st in the Senior Belle of The Ball Competition, Miss April
Winter Dover Rosebud Queen and Miss Ellen Habbershaw Junior Dover Princess.
- Another killing locally, one man killed and three injured in a
fight between two Middle Eastern groups in Folkestone last night, I despair when I read these stories and wonder what sort of society we will have in 10 or 15 years time. - thanks for that report and pic sheli, please keep us updated with carnival matters.
- Good picture from The Battle of Britain film PaulB, that's
certainly one exhibition I will not miss, it will especially interesting to listen to hear the memories from people that experienced the bombing and shelling first hand. - Well done Sheli and Congratulations to the girls.
Roger - I wonder if anyone remembers this strange hovercraft. Sorry about the quality of the picture
but it is from a colour slide I took in 1978 on what is now an ancient Zenith SLR.
It is the Ingenieur Jean Bertin, a French made SEDAM N500 hovercraft. Two of these craft were made, this one was not very successful and only
lasted on the cross channel route for about a year before it was taken out of service. The other one was even less successful as it caught fire in Boulogne and was destroyed before it could go into service.
- Interesting picture BrianC - there is some more info on the Dover Ferry Photos forum that I supplied from my
dad
Apparently they design was good and could have been better with some GB enhancements, but the French wouldn't have it !! - Wow! fascinating picture Brian. I remember
the stories about this hovercraft, it was national news. I didnt live here then, well before my time in Dover, but I did visit here hoping to see it. I never did.
I wonder why it only lasted one season...?
Good to get that
info and picture Sheli..brilliant stuff there. - was an interesting pic, is that the old "lord warden" hotel in the background?
- It was scary being on the Prince of Wales pier when it went past, seeing those three props going round and knowing the history of the other
one. - Yes that is the old Lord Warden Hotel in the background, pic was taken from midway along the Prince of Wales Pier.
- I think the old Lord Warden Hotel was called Southern House in those days.
- spot on martin, i think the harbour board changed it to lord warden house about 20 years
ago when it was turned into offices for the freight forwarding brotherhood. - Well said PaulB (almost read like an obiturary, apart from using is instead of was) and
great photos Scotchie.
Unusual but beautiful views and angles.
Roger - Well said yourself too Roger, pics are truly stunning above.
lol! re
obituary,I'm sure Paul will be with us for ages yet... but I had one eye on the Who's Who Page and I will be adding Paul to that after the exhibition above .
Note for the man himself Paul aka Scotchie...can you let us know
where you took all the shots when you look in. Just a brief one line for each and I will then add that to the above editorial. Well done that man... - 1 -
Kingsgate Bay, Broadstairs
2 - Langdon Cliffs, Dover
3 - Russel Gardens, Dover
4 - Deal Beach
5 - Langdon Bay, Dover (Wreck of the SS Falcon)
6 - Langdon Bay, Dover - Absolutely brilliant atmospheric photos.
A great way to publicize the many good points about the Dover area.
More please. - Russel Gardens Temple Ewell
- Thanks Paul have now added those details to the editorial above.
Also
for all viewers its worth doing this...
hit your F11 key to see the pictures at their very best in full screen magazine style..then hit F11 key again when finished, and all returns to normal. You get the full sweep as it
were.
- Absolutely brilliant pictures. Thank you for sharing them, reminds me why I live here
xx - Thank you for showing them to us Paul.
- outstanding stuff, the one of deal beach looks like a
painting.
i feel sure that has been shown on the members page in the past. - Phenomenal photos there Scotchie, monochrome works so well especially with
landscapes, did you use a red filter just out of interest? Well Done! - WOW Scotchie what a great set of pictures and in black and white really gives them a different look,
so glad Doverforum can show them off. - Amazing photos Paul.
- They great photos keep them coming
Paul - Wow! Superb photos. This man's got talent!
- Marvellous, beautiful. Thank you. These pictures have
made my evening. - Great to see all the excellent comments. This will encourage Paul to continue in this vein...the black and whites are a new line for him as far as I'm aware
and are clearly superb and going down a treat. I was thrilled with all the shots when I saw them initially and was keen to do a spread.
This is the last day for this page so please enjoy it..tempus fugit and all that...but we will
archive the feature in All Recent Features. - Thanks everyone, it is great to see them on show :)
- Great photographs-surrreal atmosphere-a real mood setter for the year to
come at the Port of Dover... - Just to remind everyone that today the RNLI guys will be outside St Mary's Church
just along from Marks and Spenser doing a long distance row. Its a fun fundraiser, so say hello and give them some money. Worthy cause..There are more details re this event on page two here on frontpage ( whoops just double checked scrap
that - its on page FOUR..things are rattling along )...so you might like to scroll back for that info and see picture too of Nazaneen ( who now seems to have vacated local TV and joined Sky).
Also see left here..This is the new
P&O ship as seen yesterday morning in the harbour as the sun rose behind her over Calais. She was busy busy yesterday, so although there were some rumours as to her wellbeing here she is in fine fettle and working well.
Glad you
all liked Scotchies pictures, now just moved to our archive All Recent Features. 
did anyone get a close up?
i tried
but the rowers were in a dark background
- Well done with that Howard. Thats the idea. This page now has great potential..just imagine we have the possibility of
having a kind of rolling news page if everyone helps out. A kind of Peoples News page...just imagine...
But of course we need help. Anyone can post their picture stories
now. - There has been much discussion about pavement barriers and the general safety situation. It is as we understand it KCC's
intention to remove many of these to save money. As a consequence this will leave pavements unprotected...and kids on those pavements unprotected. It was originally highlighted both on here and in the newspapers by Cllr John Goodwin
(JHG). There were many posts added to the discussion in our Forum.
To follow up on that here is the latest news release from the local LABOUR PARTY Group.
***
LABOUR DISGUSTED BY KCC's ROAD SAFETY
THREAT.
Proposals from Kent County Council’s Highways Service to remove most of the safety barriers in Dover has been condemned by the town’s Labour councillors.
Cllr Gordon Cowan, Leader of the Labour Group on Dover
District Council and recently elected county councillor for Dover, said:
“I have been disgusted by the way in which the Conservative-run county council has handled this. Virtually every safety railing in the town is being removed
without proper scrutiny by the Joint Transportation Committee and, it seems, without any proper study of the safety implications.”
Cllr Cowan added:
“If there are good reasons for removing railings and barriers at some
junctions, I would be the first to say take them away. But Kent Highways Service seems keen to rip up the lot, whether they keep pedestrians safe or not. Some of the barriers proposed for removal are used as supports for road signs, for
example at the Maison Dieu and Pencester Road junction. Where will the signs go? And around the junction of Barton, Frith and Connaught Roads, where pupils at four schools have to cross, the barriers are to be removed. That is just plain
crazy.”
- I think it is good to get rid of them it will make the town look alot better,we do not need them on all corners Etc, out side a school gate "Yes"
because there is a need for one there. - We need Guard Railings
Kent County Council Highways have suggested that a number of roadside guard railings in Dover are
not necessary and could be removed
I have taken this up with the Director of Highways who has assured me that after comments have been received this will come before the Dover Joint Transportation Board. I am further advised that
‘Kent Highway Services has no intention of undertaking any action that it believes would cause an unacceptable level of risk to users of the public highway’.
We must always consider road safety issues very seriously and where
schools or numerous heavy vehicles regularly pass retaining the railings is paramount to give some protection for pedestrians. I have personally looked at each site and have recommended very strongly that it is essential that most
remain to ensure public safety.
Highways work in and around Dover in recent years has given us a reduction in road casualties and it is crucial that this is maintained.
Nigel Collor
Kent County Council Member for
Dover Town
While others have been making comments I have been active in getting more attention to this so that we, as your local representatives, can have more say - better for Dover.
Some talk while others take action.
I will keep you posted.
- not sure what you mean about taking action nigel.
we the public can only comment and sent correspondence to kent county
council.
the only people that can take effective action are our county councillors and the council officerz. - It seems the guard-railings are needed, as the
evidence proves: they have prevented vehicles from invading the pavement.
When this happens, should not the vehicle's insurance pay up for replacement of the damaged sector of
raling? - Thank you Nigel.
May we see the risk assessments please? How do we get hold of them? - Oh, Bern
how PC!!
Are we talking about risks to the public or risk to the organisation.
Not the same. - Nigel thanks for that posting and as
I said at Council I know that in most cases you agree with retention of the barriers.It is of course your job as a KCC Cllr to do that,what is a shame is that it took a DDC Councillor to get this out to the public so that they can
express thier views,and then teliing KCC that we need to talk before this action took place.
Yes you took action but once again we brought the concerns out and once again public pressure from the Forum and Newspapers has resulted
in action.But who would have known if it hadn't been put on here and the Newspapers where was the consulation.Nowhere again! - Ha!!! PaulW, I can rely on
you, and I mean that positively - it is always a pleasure!! I am guessing that the only risk assessments I am really entitled to see are those affecting the public interest, although I could argue that risks impacting on the organisation
are in that bracket as they may influence decision making by same organisation.
So - how do we access them? - JUST A REMINDER TO ALL RESIDENTS OF THE CASTLE
WARD
Castle Forum Dover, AGM
Thursday @ 7.30 pm, 17th February 2011.
Held at Dover Community Association
1 Maison Dieu Road
For all residents and those who work in the Castle ward.
We are a local forum
dealing with topics of interest in the ward.
We have regular meetings and discuss items with the local police
and councillors as well as having presentations relevant to the ward.
Come along and find out what we do!
Les Richmond - BTW, Items like the roads and barriers are brought to the Attention of people like Cllr Collor, Highways Agency and other
agencies on a regular basis via our Castle Forum Meetings. The Damaged barrier in photo has been like it for some 2 years (before the bus garage was demolished). The Highways agency, as we all find out, work in mysterious ways. We also
reported the dead trees on Townwall street over 3 years ago and they are still there ! - Good to hear from you Les. Didnt realise that barrier
has been like that for two years. Good grief! But the town is full of mangled barriers and they quite clearly protect kids and others on the pavements. In many cases the cars and trucks are way too close for comfort, and those
railings/barriers are the only protection
I used to be a very nervous dad when I had a gorgeous little blonde girl running in front of me...and always appreciated these barriers like many do.
Its good to see that
essentially...despite the political divide...that Nigel Collor Conservative and Gordon Cowan Labour, our two representatives at KCC level, appear to be in harmony on this one.
"We need the guard railings" says Nigel
below.
Does anyone know if this comes under Paul Carters remit at KCC as I could drop him an email if needed?? - I am just going out to a meeting at
Tenterden, but I feel there is not the need for all the barriers we have around the TOWN. I will tell you why later on. thank you. - Remove them at your peril, the first
time someone is knocked over or a car mounts the pavement where there was once a safety railing, these things do happen, there will be uproar. - I can't seem to log in PaulB
so this is an answer to the English channel thread.
The name "English Channel" has been widely used since the early 18th century, possibly originating from the designation "Engelse Kanaal" in Dutch sea maps from the
16th century onwards. It has been known as the "British Channel". Prior to then it was known as the British Sea, and it was called the "Oceanus Britannicus" by the 2nd century geographer Ptolemy. The same name is used on an Italian
map of about 1450 which gives the alternative name of "canalites Anglie" - possibly the first recorded use of the "Channel" designation. - Hello Alf, have just checked
your log in and its working fine. I logged myself in as Alf Dunbar and it all works, so there isnt a problem. So have another go...remember your password is all lower case letters. Go for it!
Interesting item there about the
Channel. - Dover Town Carnival Ltd attended the Folkestone Carnival Dance at The Firs in Folkestone on Sunday evening.
The girls had a wonderful evening
and were resplendent in their full regalia, big thanks to Deal, Walmer and Kingsdown Court for the loan of their spare crowns and Country Brides of Faversham for the loan of their dresses!
Junior Miss Dover Miss Keely-Marie
Russell won the trophy for Junior Queen of Queens, competing against courts from across Kent. Well Done to Keely-Marie.
Fundraising has started in earnest to put on Dover Town Carnival on Sunday 3rd July 2011. The Dover Town
Carnival Committee and the current Court of Dover have already raised in excess of £1800.00. They have paid for last years Carnival and put down deposits for this years.
We want this year's carnival to be the Community Event of
the Year, we will require as much support as possible in order to make that happen. There are many ways in which the community can assist with either the fundraising or the event itself, for instance we will be looking for raffle
prizes/tombola prizes/donations or even your time.
We are looking for local events which the Court can attend and perhaps run a raffle to raise funds for the Carnival, perhaps you are a venue which will offer the use of a hall
for a Quiz night or a pub which can offer a fundraising evening!
With the help of Aylesham Carnival Committee we are well on the way to ensuring that The Court of Dover has a float this year, we still require bands which can
cost up to £750.00 to march in our Carnival. We need businesses / pubs / clubs / dance troupes etc to get involved and offer to take part in the Carnival itself! We need 33 Marshalls to line the route, the list is endless.
If
you would like to help with either the Court or the Carnival or have some spare time to help with a fundraising event please contact Michelle Sheppard by emailing michellesheppard@live.co.uk or call and leave a message on 01304
821933.
Thank you.
Note: photo attached is of Miss Keely-Marie Russell on the left being handed her Junior Queen of Queen's trophy by a member of the Folkestone Court.
- This morning I sent the letter below to:
Ms Sandra Watkins
Project Manager
Save KCC Money at the expense of
Pedestrians lives
Kent County Council
It concerns the removal of pedestrian safety barriers in Dover.
Dear Ms Watkins
I have read in the local papers that in an effort to persuade pedestrians to stay off the
streets of Dover and thereby saving KCC the expense of repairing pedestrian protection barriers (and also for DDC pavements), as Project Manager for KCC, with Councillors approval, you have decided to remove the said crash barriers.
Your argument is that they are unsightly. I am not surprised that you feel this way towards the one at the junction of Barton Road - Frith Avenue, Dover. It was damaged three weeks ago and yesterday it was still in a state of
disrepair. The fact that it is in this state is because it was hit by yet another car taking the bend too fast obviously escaped your notice.
In fact:
i. Crossing the adjacent roads of Old Charlton Road / Connaught Road /
Castle Avenue are also fraught with danger due to car drivers who take the said corners too fast/without looking.
ii. Besides homes there are three schools in close proximity to the said junction.
I should not need to remind
you that KCC has a Duty of Care. This is a legal requirement that extends to pedestrians. Manslaughter is a criminal offence for which a laissez-faire attitude, in order save money, is no excuse.
Sincerely Yours
Lorraine
Sencicle
- In full agreement Lorraine,lets see Vic justify doing away with barriers now with such a formidable lady as Mrs Sencicle behind the barriers so to
speak.
In fairness to Nigel I know he doesn't want a lot of the barriers to go,lets hope he fights for the average person,not those stuck behind a wheel of a car.As I cycled past the junction again yesterday a car going to fast again
shot off up Connaught Hill nearly teking me with him while I was on my bike.The problem on this corner is speed. - John,i still think the same that
the Barriers should be removed ,there are towns all over the Uk taht have done it ,What is needed away to stop the cars going at speed in the towns and parish,s.I do not agree with Mrs Sencicle and yourself. - vic
you will never stop boy racers, not enough people around to catch them.
that does not include middle aged drivers who have never grown up with regard to
motoring.
the ones that lorraine has mentioned are merely the tip of the iceberg. - Why are people causing such a fuss - as far as I can tell NOTHING is being
removed, they are just looking into which COULD be removed if deemed safe to do so? - Further to my earlier missive, I have had a personal response from Cllr Nigel Collar, who
states that:
There is no approval from me and as far as I know none of my colleagues.
My response:
A couple of years ago, after I had been hit (took four months to heal) and a neighbour with a child in a buggy who had
difficulty crossing Old Charlton Road, it was agreed to have a designated crossing point at the bottom of Danes Court.
The KCC Highways Authority came and marked everything out ... then it snowed. When the snow cleared the
marking were difficult to see and it was decided that no authorisation had been given for that crossing.
Also on Old Charlton Road, I was wrongly Cautioned for damaging a vehicle by moving a wing-mirror of a four wheeled drive
vehicle parked, with occupants inside, opposite St Edmunds School. Following a complaint to the Chief Constable the Caution was withdrawn. Further, the police officially asked for KCC Highways Authority / DDC to put signs stopping
vehicles parking on that pavement - the road is so narrow that vehicles parked along there restrict the road to one-way anyway.
Like the crossing and no doubt the barrier on Barton Road/Frith Road, KCC Highways Agency took
absolutely no notice.
You are a KCC Councillor, therefore, my understanding is that KCC Highways Agency come under jurisdiction if you are not able to do anything about that lack of Duty of Care, then I suggest that you help me
to put forward the case to KCC Scrutiny Committee - please.
- Big news about the future of Pfizer, and thousands of district jobs, now at thisiskent dot co dot
uk - Just in from DDC regarding the hot news on PFIZER
The loss of 2400 jobs anticipated...press release following..
The
Leader of Dover District Council has responded to shock news today that Pfizer is to close its research and development facility in Sandwich.
Cllr Paul Watkins, Leader of Dover District Council said: “This has a massive impact on
the Dover District and East Kent economy. The local economy will be badly hit by the effects of this news, and those local families who have relations employed at the site will be particularly distressed and concerned at the moment.
“Pfizer is a high income business and the social and economic effects can not be underestimated. We will do what we can as a Local Authority to engage with Government and the County Council, and with Pfizer and local partners in
an attempt to find solutions for the future of the site, and how best we can be supportive of local employees and families.”
- ends -
See also the thread running in our Forum
section. - paul is right about the effects on the local economy whether direct or indirect. the knoc kon effect cannot be overestimated.
the government
should give some help to east kent, but they just see the area as part of the affluent south east. - I heard about the terrible news with regard to Pfizer while I
was in town today. It's a major blow not only to the unfortunate 2,400 people who have lost their jobs, this will also have a major knock-on effect not only to suppliers but also local shops, restaurants etc. - That's true, it will have an enormous effect on the hospitality trade, shops, pubs and housing too.
I wonder why they decided to close the Sandwich R & D plant and not
another site across the globe, what makes this one the target for closure ?
Roger - I guess, Roger, that someone in an office in the US, who thinks only of
global profits' rather than the effects on the people concerned, the locality etc. made the decision. Much the same way as other corporate bodies make devastating decisions ... and like others, particularly the bankers, will go home
with a huge bonus for the money they have saved.
Lorraine
- Another kick in the teeth for East Kent, the workforce must be devastated. Where is the
hope that the area can recover from this? because I cannot see any. - so much for the private sector supplying jobs.
- Brian yes indeed you are so right, the private sector will only supply jobs as and when it suits. This Pfizer blow shows us all how vulnerable we are down here. We badly need jobs anyway and now this...well it makes it all a
whole lot worse.
The Trade Union UNITE said yesterday....
"This closure exposes the government's vacuous claim that the private sector will compensate for its brutal cuts."
The local politicians were on TV last night
looking grim faced and speaking of how devastating a blow this is...but is it within their power to actually do anything about it??
Picture shows Charlie Elphicke MP for Dover and Laura Sandys MP
for Thanet South, both Conservatives, on Meridien TV last night.
I have dropped Charlie an email checking to see if he wants to make a contribution or a statement to us here on
Doverforum.
Paul Watkins was also on TV speaking LIVE from the rainswept bleak streets of Sandwich saying.."it is a tragedy for local
families and a body blow to East Kent"
Martin is right to show concern below..where are the replacement jobs to come from? Lorraine is also right, the stroke of an accountants pen in a far off place brought this into
play.
* *
In the midst of the flap about the Pfizer situation I meant to say a well done to Sheli for keeping us informed of the Carnival situation. Am enjoying your reports with pictures Sheli. Keep
them coming. Ideal for the frontpage. Max exposure.
- Words come cheaply.Action is what is required.Why were the local MP's and Councillors
not forwarned about these jobs losses.Was it just sprung upon them like a surprise birthday party?
A big somg and dance is made when the unemployment figure drops by a hundred God only knows how the 2400 will get jobs elsewhere in
the area. - It's very difficult for any Government anywhere to influence a global company in these types of decisions.
They may perhaps have more influence over U.K.
companies, so it is extremely vacuous of unite to make that comment about something the Government have no control over.
The thing that countless Governments always get wrong, is that they consider South East Kent the same as
South East England and we're not; don't keep sending money and investment North, send it down here, even if that only means dualling the A2 and improving the road and rail system around Manston - good transport infrastructure is badly
needed too.
Roger - PaulB - what a vacuous claim from Unite....
Face the facts, the public sector do not create jobs. A job created in the public
sector destroys a job in the private sector. All it does is re-cycle money inefficiently.
Only the private sector can create sustainable jobs and it needs to be allowed to do so.
Idiotic laws like the Equality Bill needs
to be done away with, daft over-the-top health and safety needs to be scaled back to a common sense level, corporate taxes and taxes generally need reducing, red tape cut, it needs to be made easier to sack people as well because that
will encourage employers to take more risks and employ people...
The solutions are there and it lays in dismantling just about everything supported and pushed by the left. - Highly likely no-one locally knew, usually everyone is called into the Foyer (of building 500 I think) and told over a video conference !!
- They were not told by Video Link the big guns flew in from America. Also the specialist scientific staff are not represented by any union so they will have to fight for
themselves - unite are only guilty of saying what most people think.
the rhetoric of private industry mopping up the lost jobs in the public sector is
meaningless.
nobody expected the highly skilled to suffer, this may impact on other life science companies.
low wage manufacturing and call centre jobs have been heading east for some time and is likely to continue that
way. - Statement just in from PAUL CARTER the Leader KENT COUNTY COUNCIL .....
“The closure of Pfizer at Sandwich is a major
blow to East Kent. Many of Pfizer’s workforce live in the area and are among the most highly skilled workers in Kent. This will also have a massive impact on local people and the local economy that support Pfizer as a business.
“I have now been asked by the Department of Business, Innovation and Skills to lead a task force in partnership with Pfizer and the Local Enterprise Partnership to do everything we can to mitigate the impact of this decision and
continue with our ambitious plans for East Kent.
“I will also be working closely with local MPs such as Laura Sandys, Charlie Elphicke and the leaders of Dover and Thanet District Councils to look at innovative solutions
to minimise the impact on the communities of East Kent, as well as the broader Kent economy.” Ends.
Many thanks to Paul Carter for the above. Appreciated. - I hope our Councils (KCC,Thanet and Dover) with the respective MPs secure the recognition that not all of the South East is affluent and now further compounded with the 2,400 Pfizer job loss.
The North has had billions
pumped in to their economy for regeneration and job creation over the last decade or so.
Businesses pay their rates and yet only a small fraction is returned to the Local Authority in the SE (I am sure either PW or one of our
Councillors will say what this % level is).
Having had redundancy in the past my thoughts are very much with those affected.
Howard....About two months ago I saw a report that a pharmaceutical company that had moved its
production to China was returning production to the UK because of "quality issues" (can't remember which firm). So the low production cost is not always the answer.
I suppose this then moves back to Pfizer and the concern
America has with China and perhaps seeking to "job create" in America???..Will the R&D be located in the parent country?
It is so sad so many of our successful UK businesses are no longer UK owned (Cadburys is a fine
example...take over and shut a production unit)
- Perhaps the local Councills will have more incentive now to ask the local minimum-wage
factories in Kent to start up training programmes for the local people.
On-sight training within these factories would be the best solution. Otherwise there will be thousands more people signing on, once the redundancy money of
Pfizer comes to an end.
Sure, minimum wage is not much, but better than no wage at all! - pat
i was not suggesting that there was any connection between lower
labour costs and pfizer's decision.
i believe the main problem was more to do with them cutting out their more "high risk" research.
- Laura Sandys
M.P. stated in PMQ's about the impact the closing of Pfizer would have on the local communities and requested to know what help would be available in getting other firms interested in the site.
The PM answered that he had phoned
Pfizer himself and that they were shutting it as part of a global decision of pulling out of certain types of research. He also stated that various agencies would be looking into trying to find other firms to take all or part of the
site on.
Not much comfort if you are the workers involved (my husband is) but onwards and upwards and see would can be found.
n.b. Charlie Elphicke was there, sitting next to her. - Sorry to hear that your husband is one of the workers Pauline..great shame. Yes I saw PMQ as well and yes the two MP's you mention (photographed together lower down this page) were
sitting together and clearly had caught the attention of Mr Cameron who was well aware of the situation.
In cases like this the MP's seem powerless, but hopefully they can get together with Paul Watkins and Paul Carter and all
interested parties to try and facilitate the arrival of a new employer. But its a tall order.
Pfizer Wife..not sure if a Union could have saved the day in this case, but at least the workers would have felt united. But like I say
when the global axe falls there is very little anyone can do...or so it seems.
Simon Jones the BBC Corrrespondent said today on the lunchtime news that the KCC had spent serious millions on the infrastructure for that Pfizer
site....all that could be a lost investment now as who else will want the site? - An atricle from the Boston,Ma. newsmedia.
Pfizer shifts 350 positions to
Mass.
By Jerry Kronenberg
Wednesday, February 2, 2011 - Updated 20 hours ago
Pfizer is shaking up its Hub operations, creating 450 jobs but eliminating 100 others as the firm adds Alzheimer’s disease research and
other work to its Cambridge labs while dropping other work.
The New York-based drug maker announced the moves yesterday as part of a worldwide revamp of its research operations.
Plans call for relocating Pfizer’s research
divisions for neurosciences, cardiovascular, metabolic and endocrine diseases to the Bay State from Groton, Conn.
The firm intends to close Cambridge operations that handle stem-cell research and other work, but said its overall
moves will generate a net gain of 350 jobs in the area.
Spokeswoman Anne Wilson said Pfizer plans to mostly fill positions it transfers to Cambridge with new hires rather than moving current staffers up from
Connecticut.
- That's true PaulB about infrastructure, Many millions were spent on dualling that part of the road around Pfizers-
from the Dover end and the Thanet one.
They are working on that now just outside Ramsgate, but I believe that is a new link road to the airport - if I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will correct me.
Someone mentioned about
businesses come back from China because of the quality issue; I understood that a number of companies' call centres were also coming back because of the language issue.
For everybody's sake I hope there is a solution - and
quick.
Roger - Just in... a statement from our MP Charlie Elphicke on the Pfizer job shock situation....
“This is a real
blow to us all. My thoughts are with the employees, their families and the need to build a stronger future for East Kent. We are doing our very best to protect these livelihoods. Within 24 hours of the announcement, the leaders of Dover
District, Thanet District and Kent County Councils met with the 5 East Kent MPs. We were joined by Ministers David Willetts and Vince Cable. We are working tirelessly to ensure the site can continue to be a centre of excellence and
innovation, even after Pfizer.
“Pfizer have been retrenching for many years. The group’s strategy is to focus on research that is different from the Sandwich site’s expertise and they are cutting their global R&D budget by
23%. All these things meant withdrawal from Sandwich. Yet the site is excellent, as are the scientists. Our priority is to make sure the excellence of the scientists who discovered Viagra is maintained here, in East Kent. Our aim is to
see new companies invest locally and carry on the research and innovation for which Sandwich’s scientists are rightly famed.”
End.
Many thanks to Charlie for that information. Very useful to know about the effort being
made.
Picture from a recent interview on the BBC. Charlie also pictured below with Laura Sandys.
- Meeting held in Commons yesterday organised by
Charlie Elphicke MP & myself. Chaired by Laura Sandys MP
Present all East Kent MP's, Vince Cable, David Willetts. DDC,KCC & Thanet DC.
Agreed Ministerial & senior civil servant continued presence & suppport for Task
Force. i.e buy in.
Acknowledgement by Vince Cable that SE will be looked at for support as necessary in affected areas. [A turn around].
Immediate meeting with Pfizer management to establish speed of job losses,support &
opportunities for worker business set ups.
Identification of geographical impact of job losses is sought & skill mix profile of work force needs to be provided.
First Task Force meeting to set up for next Friday. - You can always rely on our Council Leader to be there on the front line when the chips are down .Another trip to London and I bet he had a full diary of
engagements which had to be rearranged .Home life what is that .
Interesting reading the locals .The Mercury special pages with the news and on the front page .Dover Express a small article pages inside which was hard to find .
Do
they not see the how important the loss of this company is ?
Still pages talking about the war .
Yes the second world war was an important part of Dovers history but like everything in life you have to move on .
The closure of
this company means another door is shut for our young peoples future . . - quite a turnaround as you say paulw, about time our politicians woke up and realised that it is not
as simple as south east rich, the rest poor.
roger
i hope you are right about the call centres, means a lot of jobs. - Sue, the main article is on the
front of the Deal and Sandwich Express. This happened on top of our deadline (which is earlier than the Mercury) so we did what was possible within the time constraint.
..incidentally it is all on our
website. - fully agree susan, paul did not let the grass grow under his feet.
it was vitally important that dover district was represented, more so than k.c.c. - Good to read Mr Elphicke is getting on with serious business and trying to get DOVER city status to mark the Queen's Diamond Jubilee in 2012.
There is growing
unrest in Deal now after the Pfizer news that the town needs its own voice and council that can tackle the issues that concern its residents. - Does anyone
really see Dover as a City? lots of real work to do Charlie! - An unfair comment as this was most likely an idea discussed with the papers before the Pfizer news
- Following on from the Paul Watkins post of 8.36am....Many thanks to the guys at KCC.
Statement from Kent County Council following the
meeting at the House of Commons to discuss the closure of Pfizer
********************************************************************************
An emergency meeting took place in Westminster yesterday following
Pfizer's dramatic announcement to close its East Kent plant with the loss of 2,400 jobs.
Business Secretary Vince Cable and Science Minister David Willetts gave their full backing to Task Force Chairman Paul Carter, East Kent MPs
and district leaders as they addressed the Pfizer closure and how to keep jobs and skills in East Kent.
After the meeting with ministers, Kent County Council Leader and Task Force Chairman Paul Carter commented:
“Vince
Cable and David Willetts gave their full backing to our efforts to safeguard jobs in East Kent and to make sure the Pfizer site leaves a strong economic legacy.
“Both the science minister and a top civil servant will now join the
Task Force, which includes local MPs Laura Sandys, Charlie Elphicke and Roger Gale, Dover leader Paul Watkins and Thanet leader Bob Bayford.
“The Pfizer closure will have a massive impact on local people and the economy as many
other local businesses depend on Pfizer for work. We now need to move quickly with Pfizer to secure their high-tech legacy and I will be speaking to the company further tomorrow.
“The Task Force then meets again next week to look
at the wide-ranging and innovative solutions being developed to deal with the closure. It will also look at how we could use Pfizer’s state of the art facilities to encourage new research and development companies to locate there. It’s
vital we don’t wait for Pfizer to leave completely before we get new companies to move in.
“We will also continue our ambitious “21st Century Kent” plans for the area, which include the proposed expansion of Kent International
airport at Manston and better access with new roads and faster rail. This will open up East Kent and create further economic opportunities, making it even more attractive for new investment and business expansion.”
END.
************************************
Interesting move there re Manston Airport, we were talking about its possibilities only the other day, prior to the earth shattering announcement on Pfizer. Its good to see
everyone pulling together on this.
- It is good to see Charlie Elphickes real committment to local priorities, alongside other local officials. His
efforts are appreciated, I am sure. This event impacts across the region. - Not just across the Region but National & International Bern.
This is Global business
decison making on your door step.
Pfizer's decision not to continue research into allergy & respiratory
medicine drug solutions at Sandwich is a trend.
They will now let smaller research companies do the expensive
work,then follow up & take on those solutions that bring profit opportunities.
Whether we can keep those highly valued chemist/scientists & get them financed to do that research & retain the facility is the project.
That
is why it is a national challenge not a local difficulty.
Add opportunites for same sector small businesses to feed off these projects & other entrepreneurs & there may be a great future.
The initial view is that the
government is prepared to back a finance backed option should the local work force move fast.
Slow re-actions will lose a talented group & sacrifice modern research facilities.
It needs to be recognised that these
projects need efficient & flexible back up staff to complete the mix.
We believe that there is £1.6 billion modern building value on that site.
Forget local posturing this is Big. Big. Big.
Neither KCC or DDC
rate in this game.
We are facilitators not movers & shakers.
Let's try to be part of turning around the challenge & make it an opportunity.
This is a high value part of our local economy.
- Regardless of his politics I think Charlie is giving the impression he is going to be a good local MP who actually cares about the area he represents.
- Good posting Paul(W) Thank You.
Thanks to everyone one trying to minimise the serious loss to this
area.
Roger - STATEMENT FROM LABOUR ON PFIZER
Cllr Gordon Cowan, Leader of the Labour opposition on Dover District Council,
says: “The news that Pfizer’s is pulling out of Sandwich is a devastating blow to the people who will lose their jobs and it adds dreadfully to the economic woes of East Kent as a whole. Pfizer’s was one of East Kent’s biggest employers
and a lot of local businesses depend on the spending power of Pfizer’s employees.”
“With Pfizer’s pull out, Dover District is now almost entirely dependent on the public sector for employment and yet the current Coalition
Government is expecting the private sector to provide replacement jobs for those in the public sector who will lose their jobs thanks to Government cuts.”
“The idea of the Conservative Leader of the County Council taking charge of
a task force to bring in private sector employers to replace Pfizer’s fills me with no confidence whatsoever. The Conservative County and District Councils did nothing to get the East Kent economy moving when the economy was growing, and
the Conservative/Lib-Dem Government has got no plan for growth. When Dover’s current Conservative MP was hoping to fill one of the seats in Parliament he said that he would do all he could to see that Pfizer’s not only stayed but
expanded over time. He has failed, and failed big time.”
(ends) - PaulB
What amazes me is that none of our elected officials knew anything about these
impending job cuts until they heard it on the news. It just goes to show Pfizers total lack of respect for our MP and Councillors. Yet I bet there were months of discussion and grants awarded prior to them coming to set up a business in
Kent,
The boss of GlaxoSmithKline has said that rival Pfizer's decision to close a major research plant in Kent has nothing to do with the UK's business
climate.
GSK chief executive Andrew Witty said: "Britain is business friendly. "I don't think the decision had anything to do with the UK environment and had everything to with the industry environment which is under a lot of
pressure."
He said the UK government had been supportive of the pharmaceutical industry, implementing initiatives such as the "patent box", which cuts the rate of corporation tax on profits from UK-owned intellectual
property.
"We absolutely believe that the patent box legislation that was ntroduced last year essentially puts Britain to the top of the list for potential investors."
"GlaxoSmithKline is a British company, we're
committed to Britain, we're focused on creating jobs in the UK, trying to be a good citizen of the UK and an exporter from the UK."
Mr Witty's comments came as Glaxo posted its full-year results.
Sales have increased
slightly to £28.4bn but pre-tax profit plunged 60% to £3.2bn from £7.9bn the previous year after profits were wiped out in the fourth quarter.
But in a sign of confidence, Mr Witty said Glaxo would start buying back its shares
this year
- Is there a package of support measures from Labour ?
Are there any suggestions from Labour ?
No to both the above, because they don't have any
idea what to do to ameliorate the situation.
I know the job of the opposition is to oppose, but in these very problematic times, put politics aside and work alongside others.
Roger
- East Kent Future.
With the demise of Pfizer. Council services cuts, Job losses,Huge impact Pending, Deficit cuts, 14,000 New Homes!!, Potential loss of economic
benefit re Dover Port etc. East Kent needs to regroup.
It is indeed time to plan for this future.It is indeed time to make the enormous savings of merging the East Kent District Councils and that we plan for an East Kent
Council.
- Roger yes the Labour party statement is a tough one..Gordon Cowan has "no confidence" in the Conservative leadership at KCC or DDC bringing this
crises around. And he also has a swipe at Charlie Elphicke our MP saying he has " failed bigtime".
See Gordon's full statement below.
**
Reg the problem with merging the councils is that more people will be put out
of work. Thats the way merging saves money.I know in theory and on paper its a good idea but the cost to the individual familes is high...and where are these people to find work?
Gordon says the following in his statement below
there...
"Dover District is now almost entirely dependent on the public sector for employment "
so are we to cut those public sector jobs as well?? - I am not so sure our MP's didn't know in advance,Laura Sandys on the day the announcement was made said she had already had talks with Pfizers now she might have had an hour or two before we were told,or did she know before
hand.The staff were only told an hour or so before the announcement.
Even the PM one month before was prasing companies and even mentioned Pfizers by name because they were the sort of company to get us out of the current
mess.
Pfizers made Billions of £'s this year and have been slowing down at the Sandwich site for years and some people are not surprised that they are pulling out.It is a shame and I hope someone can be found to use the site with
the jobs.
Both My Dad and Grandad worket at Pfizers and my Dad was ther soon after it opened and was basically one building.Any Radio Kent fans who listen to the Roger Day show in the evenings,well Roger used to count all the
money in the Accounts Dept and my Dad had to watch hime count it.
It is a dreadful shame on the work force and associated companies and all in East Kent. - SAD SAD SAD that
people use a time like this for political scoring, all colours should be working TOGETHER to get through this crisis.... - i thought that the prime minister knew a week before the
closure.
not that it makes any difference. - I totally agree it is Sad , Sad comment from Gordon.
He has completely misjudged the mood &
timing.
If he had bothered to look at postings below he would have seen that we recognised that this was not a dilemma to be solved by local government but one that needed a government input.
That is why we saw the
Secretary of State & Minister and they agreed to put a Minister [David Willetts] & senior Civil Servant on the task force.
They are already looking for national figures to join i.e. venture capital experts & a former Chairman of
another large pharmaceutical company.
Add to that advice from people who experienced a similar fate at Runcorn when ICI Pharm. pulled out. That site now has 2000 people employed in small companies feeding off small pharmaceutical
companies run by ex ICI employees.
DDC local input is necessary because we are the planning authority.
KCC deal with education, skills & training.
It seems to me we have a good runnning start with governmental
support , expert knowledge & local authority powers.
We don't want a large task force of the great & good.
Small , decisionmaking capabilities & seriously focused.
We don't want to do what DWP & Job Centre plus
do.They can get on with their responsibilities.
There is a ninety day window to bring forward proposals,investors & try to secure the site.
Now Gordon , what is your contribution? - Mr Cowan should not be throwing stones at any one at this time! Only a combined effort can minimise the impact of the loss of such a large employer in the area. Looking forward for
opportunities is the way to success not looking back at the might have beens.
If Mr Cowan wants to do something good then he should focus on the long term improvements to Dover Town which his Labour led council have been responsible
for for many years. But then there are no success stories there are there! - The Pfizer closure just highlights how badly East Kent continues to be neglected by
KCC and the government whilst they focus growth in more stable areas of Kent.
Problem is as we have seen with the financial crisis contagion is quick to spread. The loss of 2400 jobs at Pfizer is just the tip of the people
affected. At least 3000 additional jobs could go from companies which rely on Pfizer, these spread across Kent - Canterbury, Ashford, Sittingbourne etc...
East Kent is facing bankruptcy; the present economic conditions are already
stifling but the lack of prior foresight in improving infrustructure in East Kent as a priority will stop any plans to regenerate the area. As the towns of Dover, Deal, Ramsgate, Canterbury and Whitstable are dragged into economic
bleakness the contagion will spread to the rest of Kent.
The bankruptcy is not solely the Pfizer closure which has been predicted for over a year; it is due to the lack of investment into roads, rail (most of East Kent is not
served by HS1), enterprise zones and tax incentives. No double dip recession - I would not bank on it. - thanks for that james, agree with a lot but
two points you have addressed i would take issue with.
kcc have spent a small fortune on the road infrastructure to facilitate getting to and from pfizers. secondly if hs1 were to stop at more stations than it is it would defeat
the object of fast transit. - Howard,
Road investment:
Apart from the dualling of road outside Pfizer all road investment has gone into access to Dover
and Ramsgate - their is a huge part of East Kent in between these two towns.
HS1:
The only part of track which is highspeed is between Ashford and St Pancras, as above HS1 stops at Ramsgate and Dover - their is a whole line
called the Kent Coast Line which covers the majority of East Kent which has no access to HS1.
- Aycliffe blocked again as lorries have been sent
up here again when is this going to stop people out trying to turn them back kids awake with the noise so much for a peaceful nights rest some ones is going to get a mouth full in the morning . even port police sending them this
way. - Mr Cowan's statement is disingenuous in the extreme. Pfizer has been downsizing Sandwich for some time in accordance with a strategic plan made in New York and
Connecticut long before the last general election. Only the predecessors of Mr Elphicke and Miss Sandys would have had any chance of bringing influence to bear on Pfizer. - ACCESS DENIED - LETTER TO THE FOOTPATHS OFFICER KENT COUNTY COUNCIL.
Dear Sir
Re: Dover - Dour Riverside Walk between Crafford Street and Maison Dieu Road - access
denied!
In the late 1980s, Dover District Council designated the Dour River walk, following the length of the River Dour. This was published in the Local Plan of the time (see attached), and is part of the tourism package of
Dover.
A few weeks ago, someone put flimsy notices up at the side of the paved section between Crafford Street and Maison Dieu Road, which runs alongside Charlton Green car park. These stated that it is a private footpath. In the
last few days, these notices have been changed to permanent ones, (see attached)
This footpath is not only a designated public right of way for more than twenty years, but paved
by Dover District Council and, as stated above, part of the Dour River Walk.
On checking as to who put these notices up, Dover Town Council, Dover District Council and Kent Council all deny responsibility.
Please could the
matter be investigated and dealt with as a matter of priority?
Yours faithfully
Lorraine Sencicle
C.C.:
Cllr. Nigel Collar Kent County Council
Cllr Sue Jones, Mayor, Dover Town
Council
Cllr. Paul Watkins Dover District Council
White Cliffs Countryside Partnership
Dover Society
Dover Mercury
Dover Express
Dover Forum
- Having bumped into Lorraine yesterday I came straight home via the path taking photo's and called the right of way officer,who was not there and asked her to call me,this was 12.30.I waited in all afternoon and didn't get a
reply.
I will talk to a friend of mine tomorrow while I am out walking as he is an expert of Rights of ways,but to me this is once again a stupid idea,what is the point of making a public footpath not a right of way.
Who has that
right to take away public footpaths from the Public,now you know why the public is upset of selling off forests because people can stick a notice up willy-nilly and think they can get away with it.
I will be chasing this up on Monday
and have already spoken to Cllr Gordon Cowan (KCC)about this . - everyone seems to be ignoring it anyway, unless a sign has a mention as to who is giving the instruction then
people will take no notice of it. - This footpath has been discussed by members on the forum for the last week and the sign has been there for at least a
fortnight.
- the anarchist in me was brought to the fore by the sign, after taking this shot earlier i gambolled the length of the path with carefree abandon..
- i allways thought it was put there for public use.
- I think you
will find it is not a public footpath,it was never there when the dairy was there it was their yard ,I worked there then and no footpath. - It is a public footpath, and a
sign indicates it as such! It is part of the Dour Walk, and the sign has a picture of a person walking. - Sounds more like a permissive right of way rather than a
public right of way, perhaps there are different legal/insurance issues:
Permissive Path
It is possible for landowners to allow access over their land without dedicating a right of way. These accesses are called permissive
paths. To the user they are often indistinguishable from normal highways, but there are some important differences.
•A permissive path must have some sign or similar indication that it is not intended to be a right of
way.
•The landowner can close off or divert the path if they wish to do so, without any legal process being involved.
•The landowner can make restrictions which would not normally apply to highways, for example to allow
horse riding but not cycling, or the other way around
- One might find that the pathway was made at public
expense. - I should think the land belongs to whoever owns the car park. I have been told that DDC now owns the carpark but do not know if this is true, it could be
Netto/Asda. - Thank you and you are right you can use it but as I said it is not a public footpath it was put there to allow the residents to get in their house,s the back way.
and just maybe they put the sighs up.who knows. - Taking this one more step if it is Private but the public can use it ,they have to put that sigh up once ayear or close
it for one day. - I have lived in Salisbury Road for six years and this is the first notice that has gone up in all that time and as far as I know the path has never been
closed. - glad to hear it was busy, hopefully it will remain so.
- Jeanette
I’m sure you have
thought about it or someone else has mentioned it but why not have a “smugglers, rogues and vagabonds” night, a forum fancy dress get together?
nice day for a swim, but nobody in.- there is always one
- DDC do not own the car park!!
- i always thought that the car park belonged to netto.
- Further to Lorraine Sencicles intelligent piece on the
public foot path.
Could it just be that the owner, who ever they may be, does not want this path to become part of the new cycle route?
Rights of way, as I think some one on the forum has already pointed out, can include cycle
ways. Footpaths do not allow cycling.
Just a thought! - For the conspiracy theorists on the forum (appears to be the majority) think about the following.
ASDA
did not proceed with DITZ.
At the same time ASDA made a take over of Nettos.
At the Morrisons end of the footpath there are surveyors setting out pegs.
The Charlton Centre owners have gone in to Administration.
Could there be
plans afoot for a significant development here by ASDA, espescially if they now own the land via Nettos takeover.
No probs with DHB, no links to other developers, good road access. Right the way through to London Rd if you inc. the
Charlton Centre
Watch this space in the planning dept.
PS I suspect Mr Matcham already knows something about this!!! - thanks for that jimmy, i doubt that
would be the problem though.
the plans were on display in our library about 2 years ago, i feel certain that any land issues would have been cleared up by the county and district councils. - Howard, read the first line of my 03.29 again.
It wasn't mean't to be taken seriously although the surveyors setting out pegs are very recent, about the same time the
signs went up.
My post of 03.07 is more likely the reality of the situation.
Just didn't want that to spoil a good story. - Sorry should have been 3.29pm and
3.07pm respectively. - Good Luck Jeanette - glad to hear that you were busy Saturday, hope it happens most nights.
I'll call in and see you when I
can.
Roger - jimmy
your 3.29 post was not up on here when i posted, was still pending approval. - While walking down the street one day a "Member of Parliament" is tragically hit by a truck and dies. His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the
entrance.
'Welcome to heaven, 'says St. Peter. ' Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we're not sure what to do with you. '
'No problem,
just let me in, 'says the man.
'Well, I'd like to, but I have orders from higher up. What we'll do is have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity. '
'Really, I've
made up my mind. I want to be in heaven,' says the MP.
'I'm sorry, but we have our rules.' And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell.
The doors open and he
finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse and standing in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with him. Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run
to greet him, shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they had while getting rich at the expense of the people. They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar and champagne.
Also present is the
devil, who really is a very friendly & nice guy who has a good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time that before he realizes it, it is time to go. Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the
elevator rises....
The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on heaven where St. Peter is waiting for him. 'Now it's time to visit heaven. '
So, 24 hours pass with the MP joining a group of contented souls
moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by and St. Peter returns. 'Well, then, you've spent a day in hell and another in heaven. Now choose
your eternity. '
The MP reflects for a minute, then he answers: ' Well, I would never have said it before, I mean heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better off in hell. '
So St. Peter escorts him to
the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell. Now the doors of the elevator open and he's in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage. He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting
it in black bags as more trash falls from above.
The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his shoulder. 'I don't understand, ' stammers the MP. 'Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and clubhouse, and
we ate lobster and caviar, drank champagne, and danced and had a great time. Now there's just a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable. What happened? '
The devil looks at him, smiles and says, ' Yesterday
we were campaigning.. ...
Today you voted. - Two items of information in regarding the RNLI..running a tad late but the info
still sound..
* *
DRAGON BOATS ROAR IN CHINESE NEW YEAR
The RNLI is urging locals to sign up early for this year’s Dragon Boat Challenge on Saturday 2 July - one of the most exciting events at the famous
Dover Regatta.
Teams of 16 people plus drummers compete against each other in traditional Chinese dragon boats measuring 40 feet long, racing across the harbour.
This year, to coincide with Chinese New Year, the RNLI is
appealing for plucky teams to come forward and enter. No previous experience or level of fitness is required and all age groups as well as mixed gender crews can take part. It costs £150.00 per team to enter and each team needs to raise
a minimum of £250.00 in sponsorship for the RNLI.
Mr Colin Clutterbuck, captain of the winning team, C & C Carpentry, last year, said: ‘I entered my team “The Wood Butchers” because it’s a fun day out and I can’t wait to do it
again this year. It’s a great team-building experience and an opportunity to beat local rivals.’
Bob Goldfield, Chief Executive, Dover Harbour Board which sponsors the event, said:
‘We’re delighted to support this year’s
Dragon Boat Race. As a major sponsor of the Dover Regatta community event for the past twelve years we’re confident the 13th Regatta will be the best yet with plenty of local teams coming together to support the RNLI and enjoy a great
family day out as well.’
RNLI Community Fundraising Manager Jenni Bright said: ‘Many teams really enter into the spirit of the event by dressing up, trying to outdo one another. In previous years we’ve had pirates and other crazy
costumes. To add to the fun, the onboard drummer beats time for the rowers. All in all it is quite a sight.’
Nick Bailey, Chairman of the Dover Regatta, said: ‘The Regatta Committee is delighted to be welcoming the dragon boats
back thanks to the continued support from Dover Harbour Board. The race will form part of a great line-up of events for what promises to be a fantastic weekend for the Dover community.’
All funds go to towards supporting the Dover
lifeboat crew. Anyone wishing to enter a team should contact Jenni Bright by e-mail – Jenni_Bright@rnli.org.uk or info@doverregatta.co.uk, or alternatively ring the London regional office on 0207 620 7400.
Photo attached shows
left to right: Dover deputy coxswain Jon Miell, Dover Regatta Chairman Nick Bailey, the RNLI's Amy Ross (dressed as a Chinese lady) & Dover Harbour Master Kevin Richardson. (Picture credit RNLI/ Martin Collins)
* *
*
DOVER RNLI ROWERS REACH DUNKIRK
Dover Lifeboat’s hardy crew members and supporters braved the cold of Biggin Street on Saturday (29th) and raised £1275 by rowing over 70
miles
Using two static rowing machines the crew set out to row the equivalent distance of Dover to Dunkirk. The target of 47 miles was passed at about lunchtime so the rowers pushed on and finally finished the day on 71 miles.
This meant they could have carried on and reached Ostend in Belgium.
Volunteer crew member, Helen Tomkin said: “I’d like to say a very big thank you to everyone who supported us on Saturday. Fortunately we had no emergency call
outs on the day and we were able to put all our energy into rowing which kept us warm on what was a really cold day.” - Having investigated the problem with the
footpath I have e-mailed Lorraine on my findings,and I can only give you a little information on here,the Car Park does belong to Netto's and it is part of the Dour walkway and is also part of the new cycleway.
But Nettos are
expanding and need more parking spaces,in theory Netto's can do what they want providing it has not been a footpath for 20 years. I have been asked not to say much more as I believe this will come to a head very
soon. - Battling Hard to save The White Horse
These are dark days for the humble pub. Yes indeed. The cosy long lived institutions
are closing at an alarming rate. All over the UK the shutters are sadly coming down. The same thing is happening in Dover too. But one pub is fighting back..The White Horse. This is a long established ancient pub, a haunt of smugglers
rogues and vagabonds in days gone by, but these days, you will be glad to hear, it has a much more sedentary clientele. Not least amongst this clientele are the legendary channel swimmers whose names and feats adorn the walls.
Then there's the ghost. Dont mention the ghost! But rumour has it that she prowls the ancient rooms in the dead of night. The air turns cold as she does so, the timbers quake and the windows rattle. Doverforum once held a
ghostbusting night there and it was quite a revelation.
The Landlady is none other than the popular and ever cheerful Jeanette Harper as seen in the picture above left. This pub has struggled to stay open, closing a number of
times recently, but bounced back into life again last friday night. Jeanette has had a very difficult struggle to get this far and to keep the place open. The picture was taken on a busy night last saturday, so lets hope it continues in
this vein so that we can all carry on enjoying this wonderful resource. - As Nettos is now part of ASDA, it will (probably ?) be ASDA that are doing the
expanding and having a greater requirement for car-parking.
I have read Alexander's conspiracy theory on what could happen and I have no idea if that is to be the case, but whether they do or not, they could come to some
agreement with Target Follow, where their customers could park in the Charlton Centre car-park, giving them the overspill they need and still retain the path.
Roger - The Science Minister David Willetts visited Pfizer yesterday along with Laura Sandys the MP for Thanet South. What Mr Willetts hoped to achieve is anyone's guess, perhaps it was just a fact
finding tour or a goodwill mission but the upshot is that Pfizer are still closing down saying the site is too big and too expensive.
" It is no longer viable"
They also ( Pfizer) have no idea how many of the skilled
workforce will be offered jobs elsewhere...if any.
One hopes that Mr Willetts will be able to save some jobs but can he? Global companies are a power onto themselves and do what they want to do. It's all been a gut-wrenching
episode for the staff. - David Willetts was on a fact finding mission in preparation for a Westminster meeting tomorrow.
Things moving fast behind the
scenes .
HIGHER EARNERS@ KCC. ( Howards Sequel )
The Local Government Secretary Eric Pickles pledges to cut
`bloated`council executive salaries.
His outspoken attack on the `Non Jobs`and `bloated salaries`of the gravy train council executives concluded with `some pay packets would make a football manager blush`
We understand KCC
have 350 executives with approx £60,000 pa pay packets.
Dover District Council have 35 such pay packets with 40 more on in excess of £45,000 pa.
One can safely assume Thanet,Shepway and Canterbury District Councils have
similar wage bills therefore the four East Kent District Councils have over 300 very well paid executives.
Cuts to our frontline workforce are not necessary.
- Pot holes have risen by 90% since Christmas in UK and this Government is giving £100 million on improving roads in AFRICA. FOR GOD SAKE WHEN ARE WE GOING TO WAKE UP.£7.00 a gallon fuel soon nursing homes closing roads in such
a bad state shops closing if something is not done soon we are going to go the same way as Egypt open riots on the streets and it will be no good all our local councilors say I don't understand why its happened well its happened because
of no investment.our old people being shoved around from one home to another,I went to visit a friend who is 92 was in cornfields now in Alexander House had to walk up to flights of stairs with no lights on there was rubbish at the gate
and blowing about, the place is older than cornfields and yet the council have sold it to housing 21 and putting old people in there rooms with no one on there floor in case they need them all staff were down stairs talking in the day
room. I now think there is a clear case that when i get to the stage were some one has to wipe my arse I will just end it all as I don't what to be looked after by these people who are only in the job for the money and not because they
care. - Sorry Reg., are you saying that as a professional with your qualifications [no doubt highly paid when you worked]that others in comparable professsions should
not be entitled to pay that reflected their pay & responsibilities?
So engineers, environmental health specialists, town planners, lawyers, accountants,auditors etc. should have their pay packets made a subject of public
trial.
None of DDC's salaries would make a Premiership club's manager blush other than in embarrassment at the comparsion with their footballers & their salaries.
This witch hunt is going too far. - Daily Telegraph.Robert Winnet Politcal Editor article.
Eric Pickles pledges to cut 'bloated' council pay
The Cabinet minister who oversees
councils has launched an outspoken attack on the “non-jobs” and “bloated salaries” that have become commonplace in many local authorities.
Eric Pickles, the Communities Secretary Photo: OLI SCARFFBy Robert Winnett, Deputy
Political Editor 1:25AM BST 05 Jun 2010
Eric Pickles, the Communities and Local Government Secretary, said that the “gravy train for council chief executives” must stop immediately.
He indicated that few council employees
should expect to earn more than £100,000 a year in future.
Mr Pickles criticised the “fragile egos” of many council executives and said he had been appalled by the “ludicrous” salary demands he had encountered since starting his
job last month.
He added that some of the pay packages being uncovered would “make a football manager blush”.
The minister will today write to all councils effectively ordering them to release details of the salary and
perks paid to their senior executives.
- Yes perhaps the £100k+ but £45k isn't that extortionate for professionals as Paul details below
- I was earning £40,000pa 17 years ago at the NatWest computer Centre in the City.
Please someone, remind me why we moved to Dover !
£45,000 is not excessive in
any way for a professional person; If I had stayed in London I would have been on £60,000 by now.
Maybe over £100,000 could be scrutinised, but not less; they are professional, qualified people
Roger
- Too many people on here are obviously earning too much money methinks. As this site appears to be a bit of a mutual backslap, lick lick,
slurp slurp, plug plug, me me me me me & my opinions gathering place for certain councillors and the like, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.
Isn't it true that only about 10% of the country earn over £40k pa? Are they all in
council jobs?
Find me a private employer of similar size to DDC that feels it needs to pay £40k+ pa to over forty people please? Ditto for Kent and £60k+ to 350+ people.
These obscene salaries are really paid for by
councils holding down in real terms the wages of the likes of admin staff and cleaners etc. that they inevitably contract out for at the lowest possible rate (plus a nice bit of profit for said contractors of course) & the rest of us who
are about to see services dwindle.
That gap just keeps getting bigger & I can't see the poorest standing for it forever.
[/rant] - There is also a thread on this
topic running in our Forum called "NEW TIC"
* *
NEW LOCATION FOR DOVER VISITOR INFORMATION CENTRE.
Exciting plans for the future of Dover Visitor Information Centre, and
proposals to locate the VIC in a new, larger entrance area in Dover Museum, are moving forward for the town following partnership working between Dover Town and Dover District Council.
DTC and DDC have agreed to work together to
share the running costs of the new centre, and to jointly fund the relocation. This is part of ongoing partnership working for the town for the benefit of residents, visitors and local businesses.
Proposals are to relocate the
VIC to the front of the Museum, to create a new combined VIC/Museum entrance. Initial plans are to extend the ground floor of the Museum to the front of the outer wall of the building, to create a joint shop and information area. The
current disabled access will be relocated as part of the project.
Details of layout and costs are currently being drawn up, and it is hoped work could begin on site in October, subject to any necessary planning permission and
listed building consent being granted.
Cllr Frederick Scales, DDC Cabinet Member for Economy and Special Projects said: “We are very pleased to be working with Dover Town Council on this important project, and to be moving
forward together on this new centre to support tourism for Dover. This is a great example of partnership working for the future of the town.”
Cllr Susan Jones, the Right Worshipful the Town Mayor of Dover said: “Behind the
scenes, a lot of discussions have occurred between Dover Town Council and Dover District Council, on this important subject. Cllr Mrs Lyn Young has chaired our working group, which has reached this successful and forward-thinking
solution, for the benefit of our residents and visitors. It represents an important step forward.”
Amanda Cottrell, from Visit Kent, said: “We applaud this excellent example of best practice and innovative thinking, in this time
of austerity for the county of Kent.”
- ends -
Picture shows Mayor Cllr Sue Jones left with Mayoress Cllr Ronnie Philpott. - "We understand
KCC have 350 executives with approx £60,000 pa pay packets.
Dover District Council have 35 such pay packets with 40 more on in excess of £45,000 pa."
To start with it all depends what job "the professional" is doing to
earn all that money, I would have thought that 75 "professionals" earning over £45,000 was rather a lot for DDC. There are also the job perks for some that go on top of the wages that we seldom hear about, for example the fact finding
trips home and abroad.
- I'd quite like to reach £20,000 before I die. Nearly there...
At £20,000 I mean, not
dead... - With that in mind Gary you will no doubt be very pleased with the latest news today that RBS..the bank we love the most and the one we bailed
out the most!!..has held this years bonuses down to a miserly £950Million English pounds. With the cheif executive clocking in at £2.04 Million himself. Thats just the bonus, salary extra.
You could keep some countries afloat with
such levels of currency.
Makes ordinary salaries look puny. - i refuse to believe those figures paul, we are all in it together after all.
- Yeah but those 950 million pounds bonuses will be invested in the economy when the bankers do the weekly shop.
- GORDON COWAN LAMBASTED !!
(the following is a Labour Party press release...)
Conservative Maths and Parking Charges
At the full meeting of Dover District
Council held on 26 January, the current Conservative Leader of the Council, Cllr Paul Watkins, lambasted opposition Labour Leader, Cllr Gordon Cowan, for pointing out that car parking charges in the district will be going up by as much
as 25% from 21 February.
Labour’s Gordon Cowan says:
“According to Cllr Watkins, the increases in car parking charges which are due to come in on 21 February are nothing like 25% and my maths are all wrong. But the very first
increase on the list, for an hour’s parking at Albany Place in Dover, is an increase from 40p to 50p. That’s a 10p increase, which is a quarter of 40p which is 25%.
It speaks volumes for the way in which the finances of the
District have been run under the Conservatives. I can only hope that George Osborne, the Conservative Chancellor, understands maths better than Cllr Watkins but I doubt it.”
According to the report to the Council, the hourly
increase of 10p per hour “at most sites” is to take account of inflation running at over 8% since the charges were last increased in January 2008.
Mike Eddy, Labour spokesman on Finance on the Council, says: “This would be funny
if it wasn’t such a brazen attack on the pockets of hard-working people in Dover District. Inflation has been over 8% since January 2008, according to the report. But how much over 8%? Why are the charges for Beach Street in Deal going
up by 12.5% and in the Middle Street car park by over 10%? How much over 8% has inflation been in those three years? By over 8% do they mean10%, 12.5% or 25%?
And how much of that inflation has been down to the Conservative
government’s muddle-headed economics of the last few months?”
(ends) - We've done this on here already and I believe there is one instance where a 40p ticket
is going up by 10pence, but so is an 80p ticket.
This is semantics, not common sense; a 10p rise is a 10p rise, who is worried what the percentage is, it's the cost to your pocket that counts.
Car-parking in Dover is still
the cheapest, compared to neighbouring areas.
There are plenty of places to park for free, even in central Dover, so if anyone doesn't want to pay this extra 10pence, then don't.
This is a non-story that would only get air
space on here.
We all know just how good Labour are at looking after your money don't we ? At National level and Local.
When the previous Labour Administration ran DDC, they left a £750,000 black hole in the accounts; they
had inherited an £11 million surplus (it may have been more) and spent it all (and much more besides) with nothing to show for that.
Doesn't that ring a bell from the National (Labour) Government.
The Conservative
administration at DDC have a good level of reserves and cleared that deficit left by Labour and have improved just about every service possible since they took over in 2003.
Working in partnership, Tourism is about to take off
too. - i have come to one conclusion about this fiasco,the blame game.niether side will take the blame or take the credit for a good/bad job.
- FFS (as Bern would day) - and the end of the day this is TEN PENCE for popping into town, there is a lot bigger stuff we should be worrying about
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - PW is correct 10p even for those on a tight budget is not a huge amount. But then again if you have a car 10p will probably be nothing at all. These are
the people we want to come into the town centre.
Walking from Pencester Road down towards the church I was carefully directed around the falling debris problem of M&S and past the benches of 9 or 10 bums, drunks and their pet attack
dogs noisily grunting to each other.
The 10p won't matter to the people that can spend the money in the town because they will go to places where more shops are open and they feel safe.
Get a grip councillors focus on something
that matters not party point scoring. - Well its true that 10p isnt a lot but then any hike in parking charges will hit the shops
you want to protect most..the ones in the centre of town. These are the ones that are struggling the most. Although on the other hand it must be said that local councils are facing a financial shortfall due to government cuts and have to
find the money somewhere...but with out of town supermarket giants charging you nothing to park your car, you can see the problem for inner town shops and businesses.
Veering away from that but still sticking with politics.
Picture left shows Charlie Elphicke MP speaking yesterday in the House of Commons during the debate on Local Government Finance. Charlie has been busy busy lately...he also spoke on Care for the Elderly the day before and is still hotly
pursuing his People's Port effort...although his Port initiative has slipped out of the headlines lately amid rumours that it had floundered on the rocks of apathy. - local councils are facing a financial shortfall because of bad management from DDC & KCC for not doing the things they should when they had the money, get rid of the big screen in market square and save us all some more money
its always the same as soon as there is no money blame the government look at what DDC wasted Artist bring light shows to light up castle big screen, sea front, shops closing this will mostly fall on deaf ears and still no regeneration
for Dover.Just sit in your Ivory towers and watch Dover disintegrate. or some one will come back with some fancy words which don't mean a thing . - alan
i am
certain that the light show was not financed by d.d.c.
i have a feeling it was k.c.c. an excellent piece of entertainment. - For those that want to get a
better understanding of the issues on parking fees go to the DDC web site and do a search for "parking strategy".
There there are consultants reports dated 2007.
These will help people to understand that, despite Labours
politicing over the sum, 10p is not unreasonable overall. Read some facts before you judge. - Howard,Alan,
The Big Screen was funded by one of the Olympic
offshoots with KCC paying for installation etc.
DDC pick up annual maintainence costs & have to adhere to LOCOG [Olympic ] agreements until 2012.
My understanding is that after 2012 we have freedom to do/show what we want &
can go for proper commercial sponsorship. - It is no wonder Westwood Cross continues to prosper, all the shops you could possibly need, food outlets,
entertainment complex, no down and out drunks to sour the experience and FREE PARKING, take a good look DDC. - Martin,
All of which cannot be delivered in
constrained/confined space town centres.
They buy space & pay for free car parking in their rentals.
The public shop where they want by choice.
They are not deterred from shopping in Canterbury by car parking
charges. Look at the full car parks & park & ride at greater prices than DDC's rates.
You can have all of that at Whitfield if we changed our policy on out of town trading. Now how popular will that be?
The price increase
includes the vat increase & an inflation catch up for a 3 year freeze. 10p
Still the the least charges across East Kent.
Charging only for 9am-5pm [unlike competing Districts 8am-8pm or 24hr charging] & no Sunday
charging in the majority of car parks.
- paul
re: screen
thank for info, assumed that was the case except i thought the local
p.c.t. were involved in day to day funding, if my memory seves me correct. - Funding from other sources is on a year to year basis , Howard.
- Paul, I fully appreciate that Westwood cannot be recreated in the Town Centre but Thanet had the vision to create it out of Town. Lots of people now opt
for there in preference to Canterbury and the cost of parking is a issue that helps them decide. Westwood type places are the way that the majority of shoppers want to go but there is a place for day to day town centre shopping but they
have to be welcomed,lack of public parking, parking fees , over eager parking wardens, drunken undesirables and lack of public toilets are not going to do it are they? - I like
the work Mr Elphicke is doing, I think he is a credit to our local cause. I really mean this, having met the man and seeing his drive and ambition.
I wish someone could marry localism (Big Society) thing with 'out of town'
shopping (Corporatism/individualism) and the obvious decline in social capital. I think Robert Putnam makes it quite clear, although you would have to use your imagination to see the implications in our
country! - Mother Nature isn't she wonderful
- The trouble with
Westwood Cross and suchlike is that is HAS killed Margate and Ramsgate Town Centres.
I must say that with all the problems we now have in the District, including the closure of the Pfizers site, creating so much noise over a
10pence increase, does Labour very little credit - petty in the extreme.
O.K. we have an election in 3 months time, let's be adult and intelligent for once and respect the
electorate.
Roger - Roger, life has changed and we have moved on from getting the bus into town and doing your shopping as my parents did and I did when there was
nothing else. You have to move with the times and give the customers what they want. I live in Deal and support the town shopping, but when the main shopping is done I, or rather my wife , opts for Westwood that is the way of modern
times. - Love the picture Alan.
I very much doubt that a 10p parking rise will affect the way people vote in the May elections unless it reminds us how petty politicians
can be. They make a big noise over the small things being introduced but keep quiet over major issues that all sides know have to be done. - Martin, I do exactly the same but it
could be either Canterbury or Westwood for choices where Deal or Dover don't have the goods I require.
My wife does all her daily shopping in Deal.
I don't see the issue as Jan says.
The choice this year was
whether to freeze council tax & leave the local people a little more money to spend or apply fees & charges invariably where people have choices.
On balance we believe it is the right although reluctant decision.
The vat
increase made the decision for us, it was going up anyway. - In Canterbury the other day I parked for 20 minutes in Whitefriars multi-storey and it
cost £1.60. Makes Dover look a bargain, but the car park was quite full and unless we have the shopping outlets to offer people they will obviously go elsewhere. After much consideration of the parking issue I think parking charges are
very much a side issue when people decide where to shop.
It's quite fun to use it as a stick to beat local politicians with though!! - Love you to Peter.
Today the Office of Rail Regulation issued the latest station usage figures, the figures
below are number of entries per annum for season ticket holders of that station:
Deal : 104,618
Dover Priory : 102,633
Sandwich : 88,285
Walmer : 56,993
Folkestone West : 44,083
Ive had the following document passed to me by an anonymous but reliable source...
The
Castle is to close weekdays between October and March..people are losing their jobs.
A massive visitor resource is lost.
The staff were obviously asked to take a pay cut and rejected the idea but read on...
***********
Re English Heritage including DOVER CASTLE!
How will this effect Dover's economy, every resident and tourist trade?
Why should all Dover Residents go without their castle?
How can we get city status when
our heritage is cut?
Dover Castle had some 17,000 international students pass across it's drawbridge between November and April last year. A pecentage of which visited the town centre. The nearest English Heritage site to us
that is open weekdays during November to January will be Osborne House on The Isle Of Wight. Stonehenge and Kenwood House will remain open.
This was sent to staff from the union on Wednesday, it's from supervisors down to
Custodians (Visitor Operations Team Members, VOTM for short)
The pay cut ballot was counted on Monday morning.
Pay Cut Ballot Result. The result is:
Returns: 41%
Vote YES: 19%
Vote NO: 81%
The pay cut
proposal was rejected.
HR and the EB were understandably disappointed. However, it is our view that the question was asked far too early and while major restructuring and changes are still being developed. The question will you take
a pay cut amounts to asking staff to lose a £100 a month (or more) and in 7 months we will make you redundant. The level of insecurity is far too high at the moment.
Once the restructuring has been implemented and staff are
feeling far more secure then we believe members would have been more willing to consider a pay cut. Of course, as a union we remain opposed to any pay cut.
All properties that are current open during the winter will close Monday
to Friday and ONLY be open Saturday and Sunday. Visitor Operations managers are being informed of the details today and tomorrow.270 staff members will be affected and a large proportion will face redundancy at the end of the summer
season 2011. This being 1st November to 31st March, therefore 5 months.
- paul
this is being discused on the members page "english heritage cuts"
thread. - ah yes indeed Howard but I had to mention it on the frontpage which grabs the attention of the internet browsing market as it were and all our regular
readers. Am aware of the thread.
Readers should also check out also the thread in our Forum section. - reading through that paul, i see that they are keeping
others open.
i would have thought that dover castle would have taken precedence over kenwood house. - hsdeal. I cannot understand your logic. You have not
identified where the season ticket holders go to or why Deal should be the exception over Sandwich which has only approx 10% less commuters than Sandwich.
On a much more practical note Deal does not have either track, platform or
signalling infrastructure for it to become a terminus station for the HS service.
Which is what Dover is. All HS services to Ashford through Folkestone start at and finish at Dover.
Not withstanding that there is not the room to
expand the infrastructure, even if money were to be made available, to provide all the services necessary for a terminus station.
This is just the start of any justification that would be required let alone timetabling issues,
existing service issues etc etc.
Looking at the timetable there is a perfectly appropriate interchange with the domestic service for HS travellers from Deal.
Why should any one spend 100's of millions so that Deal can say it has a
HS service? - @Jimmy S
The figures are for season ticket station entries, a breakdown of journey destinations are not available. Dover is not a HS terminus,
all HS services starting from Dover are provided from the Ramsgate depot. To enable Dover to provide HS services rolling stock has to travel through Deal station, the infrustructure is already in place to stop HS at Deal. The mainline/HS
interchange between Deal and Dover is not appropriate as connection waits are too long.
I think Sandwich should also be included into the timetable, but if this is not possible stopping at Deal would still be a huge advantage to
residents of Sandwich and Walmer as unlike Dover their is enough parking facilities. - Kenwood House I believe is free to the public,
probably funded by the Arts because of it's art collection.... - hsdeal. Trains from many terminus stations are serviced by a depot, where trains can originate.
Their daily working however is from a terminus station, in this case for the HS service it is Dover, this is where all timetabling begins and ends.
It could be possible to stop a train from it's depot to it's serving station
but that would require a whole new roster of stafff starting from the depot not the terminus station. To get one train to stop at Deal in the morning and one at nihght would be a huge cost.
The remainder of the services would continue
with Dover as the terminus station.
Not sure which timetable you are reading but the interchange times are currently 10-12 mins interchange either at Dover or Ashford.
Which is not unreasonable by commute standards (ex commuter of
30+yrs). This excludes the first train out in the morning.
- Thanks for that posting on Dover Castle PaulB; I still think they have it
wrong.
Roger - Thermopylae 480BC:
A Persian officer informs the Spartans that if they do not surrender and allow all Greece to be conquered, the sky will
become dark with arrows.
A Spartan soldier replies: Then we will fight in the dark! - alex
i feel sure that your post has some relevance, give me a few years
and i will discover what it is. - I understand the matter is currently the subject of consultation with the staff.
In the winter months well over 90% of the
visitors to the castle are at weekend.
Many "historic" properties (National Trust) close completely from November to March.
I have previously mentioned on this forum that Dover Town actually benefits very little from the
visitors to the castle as they exit with their cars away from Dover and do not drive down to town and park.
DDC have aspirations for a cable-car that is intended to link the castle with the town. My earlier suggestions on this
forum for a direct access from East Cliff may not now be possible due to the shaft that could have delivered this access point being used as part of the New Tunnels experience opening in early summer.
Therefore I doubt if the
"weekday" closures would greatly affect the footfall to the town.
What is needed prior to the cable-car being built is increased parking (say DTIZ site) with shuttle coach to/from the castle thus ensuring visitors are close to
the town centre.
I have a scheduled meeting with English Heritage in about a weeks time and if I learn any more shall update accordingly - Pat.
Your "In the winter
months well over 90% of the visitors to the castle are at weekend" is hard to believe.
The ammount of coach's, during the week, full of students, I counted 6 the other day, must make up more than 10%?
Stopping School trips to
any Heritage site during the winter is not good.
- Gary
This is what I have been told (not EH). I hope to see the full figures (if permitted by EH).
Again
for the visit to town many of these coaches just drive away from Dover.
Two issues on this subject...first the need to establish what the level of loss in winter months (must be substantiated) and I hope negotiations are
continuing with staff
Second is how can Dover Town benefit from castle visitors. The present parking for coaches and cars results in visitors juast driving away without visiting.
- Howard, I was referring to the headlines of the front page: Dark Days in Old Dover, and the picture of the Castle that has been obscured.
- Yes Garry - there are coaches nearly every day through the winter.
542 Facebook members since the group was set up this lunchtime !!
www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=789489679#!/home.php?sk=group_135503169850295 - The picture left shows the visit by then
Minister in the Labour Government Margaret Hodge, who visited Dover Castle November 2009. This was the grand opening of the newly and expensively revamped Keep.
Yours truly got an invitation from our MP at the time Gwyn Prosser
to cover the visit. Lets not forget a vast amount of public money went into this Keep development...off the top of my head I think I remember £6million being mentioned. The money was well spent as a fantastic job was done.
But I
dont think the then government would have entertained the notion that the facility would be in limbo for nearly half the year.
As we see in the leaked letter below...
17,000 international schoolkids visited the castle in the
winter months.
In the picture are left Castle Historian Stephen Brindle, Dover MP at the time Gwyn Prosser, Culture Minister at the time Margaret Hodge. There has been a change of government and MP since the picture
was taken.
More on the visit in our All Recent Features archive on page 13. - any weekday you can see coaches parked opposite the castle.
the
schoolkids then come into town and spend some pocket money.
there was a group of nearly a 100 in market square yesterday afternoon. - I take it the vast
majority of the 17000 International school children that visited in the winter months came during the week, what a loss to the local economy! Gwyn must be very disappointed to see this happening after the investment that was made in the
Castle! - I think one of the major problems for EH at Dover Castle from a revenue perspective is the large number of school visits.
EH policy, is for schools/educational
groups, to have free access which I totally agree as the UK Curriculum covers WWII and Dover is one of the important WWII locations with the Castle offering the Tunnels experience.Hence why the current project which will deliver a "self
guided" element to give a greater through-put.
Overseas schools/educational groups also benefit from free entry. I was informed about two years ago that some 40% of visitors to Dover Castle fall into the schools/educational
groups, It was not split between UK and Continental originating although the number of continental coaches seem to be significant and growing in numbers. Also since two years ago the overal numbers have grown.
I do wonder if the
reduction in staff costs will significantly reduce the winter deficit.
Should amongst other revenue generating ides also consider "overseas" groups being made to pay a small charge (even if only £2 per head), based over the
entire year this would probably generate enough to cover some of the winter deficit.
The castle is important for the local economy in respect to employment and the various local suppliers, but again, sorry to be repetitive, the
majority drive away from the Castle elsewhere and do not drop into the town and this needs addressing for the benefit of the businness community in Dover
The castle does give a overall annual profit to EH and if EH are taking a X%
reduction from each property accross the board it must look at its potential revenue generators of which Dover is very much at the top of the list and adjust accordingly. We do not want to see a Dr Beeching result ??? - @Jimmy S
No new roster required because the staff for HS services for Dover come from Ramsgate. I know this because they suffer the same abysmal journey on the mainline
interchange service through Deal as the rest of us. The interchange wait at Dover should be 16 mins but is seldom achieved, only last evening due to cancelled services passengers had to wait 50+ mins for a connection.
Although not
publically confirmed the new Maidstone West and Thanet Parkway services may not leave enough rolling stock to continue terminating services at
Dover. - This is from another site . Another issue is that as an amateur film maker. I am concerned the impact this will have on the
opportunity to film at such illustrious locations and indeed at the more lesser-known ones e.g. Drop Redoubt.
Many scripts I have and want to film are based on these historical locations and either they will become totally
inaccessible or exorbitantly expensive. Typically, there is little or no budget for films in this age of austerity. I would have thought that getting more and more filming done at locations such as Dover Castle could greatly help with
tourism and in thus the general wellbeing of the local communities. Even small productions, such as mine, bring in a crew of around 10 who use local accommodation and local restaurants/cafes. Large scale productions of course bring in
hundreds.
So, if EH are listening, please dont shut the gates, pull up the drawbridge and fill the moat with crocs on amateur filmmakers, welcome us with open arms as we can be of great benefit to our great monuments. - to be honest i havent been up to the castle since they started to charge admission at the main gate.the last time i went there it cost 2/6 to get into the keep/great
tower.
i think the charges are outrages evan with fodc/eh passes.it should be free of charge all year long with a 2 week closure at chrismass. - hsdeal. Unfortunately,
where train drivers/guards live does not influence the design of a working train timetable and it never will. People change. Moving a train from depot to terminus station does not require normal train crew I assume this is just a
coincidence for the first and last trains of the day.
I couldn’t find the 16mins you mentioned unless I added in the dwell times and the cancellation of a train is a bit of a red herring.
I do not have the in depth knowledge to
comment on the proposed new Thanet Parkway, but it is on the existing HS Ramsgate to Ashford route. Considering this the need for removing stock from a Dover service escapes me, it’s just an additional stop between Ramsgate and
Canterbury West (I assume you mean this rather than Maidstone West as this does not have a connection to HS1).
To help you understand why your ambition is not achievable I suggest you sit down with an experienced railway Operations
Manager (who has commercial experience). These chaps have the experience to talk you through the finer detail that you need to understand the impracticality (from a Railway Operating Companies business perspective) of your wish. I hope
this last paragraph is helpful. - Good posting Pat.
I agree that many visitors to the Castle rarely come into Town, but I understood that was the coach
passengers, who are taken away, rather than car drivers.
Being closed, visitors wouldn't even be coming here, so there would be a reduction in benefit to local businesses, especially any suppliers.
Could not FODC, the
local Town and District Councils, the Dover Society, the two accommodation groups - the White Cliffs Dover Hotel and Guest House Group and the Dover Guest House Association and I would be happy, as Dover Business Support Manager for the
Channel Chamber of Commerce and any other body, write to EH in Guildford, lobbying them to keep it open ?
Roger - roger
when motorists drive out of the
castle the signs point to deal and walmer castles, i cannot remember seeing a sign to the town centre. - @JimmyS
Your absoultely right where Southeastern
staff live has no bearing on the matter, i am talking about the onboard managers for HS services from Dover they are rostererd from Ramsgate. If you take a peak morning service which have the shortest connection wait 06:32 (DEA-DVP)
arrives 06:48 the next HS servives is 07:08 (19mins wait).
Maidstone West will be a new HS service drivers are currently being trained on the route, it is my understanding rolling stock will be required from existing HS
services. - Brian, even in Soviet Russia, the only Moscow tourist attraction you could get in without paying was the Lubyanka.
- Most of the HS1 crew that work out of Dover live in
the Dover area some from Deal,Folkestone and Ashford.There are depots at Ramsgate and Ashford for the on board Managers.Not all the trains come from Ramsgate as some of the early one run empty from Ashford.
As I work for Southeastern
I cannot comment on this further so will keep out of this. - JHG
No big deal for me just trying to explain that timetabling of train services are station, hs train and local
train requirements driven. Staffing is the only variable resource that allows flexibility, therefore they are not key drivers in decision making.
hsdeal. I bow to you on the new Maidstone West service as I have no current knoweledge.
Does seem strange tho' as this is a minor line by network category and would probably be served from Tonbridge, which has it's own fast service to London.
This brings up so many interesting possibilities. Depotting will be a
challenge. Trains won't be able to join HS1 till north of Gravesend, which doesn't really make for a HS service.
But as I said I bow to your knoweledge on this. I also bow on the interchange time I was talking of the majority and
at Ashford or Dover, not an individual service.
I still believe you would benefit from a chat to an experienced railway operations manager, who would talk you thro' things more thoroughly. - JHG
Thanks very much for the info, and I appreciate that you cannot comment on Southeastern.
Jimmy S
I don’t understand the logic of a Maidstone West HS service but
West Kent MP's have been noticeably proactive recently to secure better train services from Southeastern on the back of a very poor mainline service performance. I still believe the only reason Deal has not secured at least a limited HS
service is because there has not been enough political effort, even though there is clearly demand for it and that was before the Pfizer closure. I take your point about talking to a railway operations manager.
Just on a final
note at the meeting between Kent MPs and the rail minister on 1st Feb, one suggestion was to split the franchise and award HS separately to allow a TOC to offer broader
services. - I hadn't noticed that Howard - in all the years I've lived here.
So that's something that could/should be done
immediately; not sure why that's never been said/noticed before.
People who don't know the area, wouldn't know that the Town is just down the road, so a simple sign saying Town Centre should be erected asap.
Maybe
partnership working with EH and DDC on reduced parking charges could be arranged - EH and South Eastern have a 2-4-1 arrangement on entry to the Castle, why not with parking ?
I haven't worked it out yet, but there must be a way
to do it; an arrangement with shops would help too.
Roger - Had A very nice phone call from Kent police yesterday a SGT has promised that he will be in touch
with highways this week with regard to the HGV Lorry's coming onto this estate he is asking highways to erect signs at the start of South Military Road leading to Old Folkestone Road No HGVs Accept lorrys for Access , he had had a lot
of calls from residents the other night and was calling as many of the residents as pos, Maybe good news at last. - Will the signs be in Lithuanian and Latvian Alan?
they drive most of the trucks ;-) - Alan
There is a Traffic Regulation Order being looked at, for a sign at the end of the estate. This sign is being paid for out of the
Councillors budget by Nigel. - stewart,i do belive that nigel told alan and me that is signage going up there.
- At the end of the day its tax payers money .We have an item on JTB committee re KCC members budget .There are thoughts that this money could be pooled for a larger project .I for one would say let us get Crabble Avenue
resurfaced . - I hear Melborne Ave is cracking up as well Sue and that has been down 3 weeks?
- In 1984 we had Bob
Geldof and his "Save the world" campaign to help the needy in Africa.
Can we assume we shall have Mr Geldof on the trail once more?? Only this time a series of concerts to help the unfortunate members of our society who will be
sorely deprived of funds following the establishment of "The big society" inspired by thieving tories - OK then people can you name the English Council that is going
to close all toilets except one, is running a job advert for a Twitter and Facebook Tsar at £38,000 per year, and is shedding a sixth of its workforce yet they are hoarding more than £100 million?
Yes you are right its
Manchester City Council
- And it's run by Labour and when you read the Leaders blog, doesn't sound very clever.
Like all Labour Councils and Governments, they
can't manage money.
Like the majority of ordinary working (and non-working) people, they are Labour supporters/Councillors/activists through tradition -"my Mum and Dad always voted Labour so I do too" and that support is based on
an outdated idea that Labour care about the working class - of course they don't, don't kid yourself.
Roger - Ah happy valentines day to you all to!
xxxxxxxxxxx - Happy Valentines Day to everyone xo
- bit of a sweeping statement roger, there people of all
political persuasion that stick to one party. - It would be interesting to know if Valentine's Day is as popular as ever. Certainly
the volume of stuff on display in the shops seems to indicate that it is, but since Valentine's last came around the cuts, the recession, and vat rise have really hit home...so although the shops speculate by parading all the goods, the
real answer lies with you and me...the punters out there on the street.
Are we still spending on things like Valentines day?? - Latest info just in from
DHB. Good News!
We have talked about this before in the forum section..here is the latest direct from DHB. Just imagine, importing enough bananas this year through Dover to stretch half way round the world!
......
Port of Dover cultivates fruitful partnership with George Hammond PLC .
George Hammond PLC has secured a new service from Seatrade with the backing of the Port of
Dover. The port will welcome Seatrade’s new Rayo service from Ecuador carrying bananas for high-street supermarkets such as Morrisons.
James Ryeland, Managing Director, George Hammond PLC praised the partnership between the
port and his company;
“This is great news for us, we’ve seen steady growth over the past year and 2011 is already looking very positive with the addition of this new service. The Port of Dover have been continually
supportive and offered us operational flexibility which means we can welcome these new ships and concentrate on securing new business.”
George Hammond PLC, which provides fresh produce stevedoring and marine services,
from its base at the Port of Dover will see over 825 million loose bananas (enough to stretch almost half-way round the world!) and around 10 million melons and pineapples discharged at Dover this year for distribution to all the UK
supermarkets.
Kate O’ Hara, Head of Commercial and Marketing, Port of Dover said;
“We are delighted to welcome the new service, this is a fantastic addition to the fresh produce trade which is operated from
Dover’s Cargo Terminal. Fresh produce is an important part of the port’s business and one which we will continue to fully support in any way we can.”
In addition Hammond’s will continue to welcome the Africa Express Line
(AEL), their ships carrying bananas and pineapples from The Ivory Coast, Cameroon and Ghana for high-street supermarkets including Tesco. The same ships also carry seasonal vegetables from Senegal. Fresh Del Monte also continues to ship
significant volumes on the Africa Express Line weekly service to Dover. Seatrade’s Seaban service also carries bananas from Colombia and Costa Rica for Tesco and Morrisons.
Picture above by Paul Scotchie
Wells.
- That’s great news for Deal/Dover. Losing GH on top of everything else, would have been disastrous. Well done
DHB!! - great to see some positive economic news, the hammonds staff will be highly relieved to hear that news.
- DHB supporting a commercial customer in the true spirit of a Trust Port, well done to all.
- Brian if you are still on Anita was admitted to William Harvey to day
with Gould Stones waiting for the surgeons give me a ring when you have a Min, - ok alan will do.
- One
thinks one has seen or heard it all in 70 years, but alas how wrong can one be.
Today we see another caring example of "The big society" I of course am referring to the warrent officer serving in Afghanistan who received an E Mail
from the ministry of defence, telling him he is redundant.
Can you believe it. I dare say the government of "Camerons toadies" will send him the bill for his transport back home.
Apart from being a heartless uncaring bunch of
crooks we now find they are spineless as well.
It will be interesting to see who is next in line to have the sh*t kicked out of them. Lets face it if they can decimate the armed forces then to be sure no one else can consider
themselves safe.
Us pensioners would probably be well advised to keep a low profile and await our turn with a sense of forboding and apprehension - Yes this is
quite a shameful episode Jimmy and The Sun newspaper which normally supports the Conservatives is pretty horrified at the treatment these 38 servicemen got...their careers cut from under them. They were unceremoniously sacked by
email.
They were asked by email to "start planning their resettlement" including one chap who has completed FIVE TOURS in the Afghan warzone, and one who is currently on the frontline. They thought the email was a joke but it
turned out to be all too real.
Whats the world coming to? Sigh..whats to be left when all the cutting is done? - nothing at all,defenceless,broke and
vulnerable. - not the first time this has happened, soldiers serving on the front line in bosnia recieved redundancy notices.
hardly good for morale. - Shocking in the extreme, the MOD need to be taken to task over this unthinkable act. It takes it to a new level, I've heard of people being dumped via email or text, this
takes the biscuit. - A shame Gov. can't get all our soldiers out of Afghanistan today! They belong here at home!
- paulb
on top of all of this we are seeing real concerns of britains future on the defense front.
The MOD has always been poor in public relations but this is risking our future.
Of course we will see now if
our Barryw who has supported spending more on defense and not go down the present road being put forward still shares that view,
The MOD needs review, but the way this case has been handled needs quick intervention before
it's to late. - Absolutely terrible, they are hitting hard and fast, with no compassion or thought for their victims. Are these cuts really about turning our economy around
and getting us out of debt? - Barry W's expressions of regret raise the question does he mean what he says from a compassionate point of view??
Or is his stated regret that
it has cast doubt on his tory todies expressions of compassion for the people of this over taxed, down trodden (17 millionares in the cabinet) and screwed by his compatriots in the banking industries.
Personally speaking I have my
doubts. I console myself with the thought that there is "Jam tommorrow" is'nt there?? - I am endeavouring to bring us one or two
good news stories at the moment...we now have had a couple of positive news items on the shipping front. Here is the latest...
* *
SeaFrance raises over £500,000 for the Marine Conservation
Society.
Ferry company is ‘overwhelmed’ by the generosity of customers
SeaFrance Dover-Calais Ferries has spoken out in praise of the generosity of its customers, after learning that they have raised half a
million pounds for the Marine Conservation Society (MCS) in under three years.
SeaFrance took on the role of lead sponsor of the MCS Beachwatch project in May 2008 and since then has seen customer donations to the charity’s work
far exceed all expectations.
SeaFrance Managing Director, Robin Wilkins commented,
“We are completely overwhelmed by the fact we have been able to raise so much money for this extremely valuable work
carried out by the Marine Conservation Society and its volunteers. Most of the money raised has come through our customer donation scheme and it’s incredible to think that, in well under three years, we have been able to raise over half
a million pounds for the charity”.
Marine Conservation Society Director, Sam Fanshawe, says the generosity of SeaFrance and its customers has enabled the Beachwatch programme to continue apace,
“We are delighted with the outcome of our ongoing partnership with SeaFrance and this incredible figure of half a million pounds is a credit to the commitment of both the staff and booking customers, who have clearly taken
the MCS message to heart. Beach litter has increased dramatically over the last two decades, and plastic litter in particular has become a massive issue for marine wildlife. The money raised by SeaFrance will help us to continue to
expand our Beachwatch programme and allow us take action on the issue, from grass roots to Government.”
SeaFrance Conservation Manager Rachel Rissbrook has spearheaded the company’s work on this project
added.
“It’s great to be involved in such a hands-on project. The Beachwatch scheme mobilises thousands of people around the country to clean and monitor litter on their local beaches. SeaFrance staff have thoroughly
enjoyed helping out too, by cleaning and monitoring the beach at Kingsdown. It has been shocking to see the amount of litter on the beach, and it’s great to think that we can also play our part in combating the effects of that on our
amazing marine wildlife. People wishing to find out more can visit www.seafrancecleanseas.com.”
* * ends
Ah I see our young Keefy is back in harness, welcome back!
- a good news story indeed, great to see a local company making such an effort and their customers too, of course.
disturbing to read about beach
litter increasing dramatically over the last 20 years, it has been drummed into us the negative effect on marine life let alone the eye sore aspect. - What
expression of regret have I made Jimmy? I have not commented on the issue yet and have only just seen these posts on the sackings.
Yes - I do oppose any cuts to the Armed Forces and have repeatedly said that this is the one and
only aspect of public spending that should be increased not cut.
We should howvere always remember the only reason for these cuts is the sheer financial incompetence of 13 years of Labour misrule.
Anyway - this is what Sec
of State for Defence, Liam Fox has said:
He.....""""""'warned Labour not to use the sacking of 38 soldiers via e-mail to their “political advantage” as he condemned the move as “completely unacceptable”.
Answering an
urgent question in the Commons on the matter, he said: "The correct procedure was not followed and I regret this and reiterate the unreserved apology already made by the army and on behalf of the Ministry of Defence”, adding that an
internal investigation was expected to report on a conclusion on the matter within “days”"""""" - I notice the issue of Labour's all-women shortlist is provoking
debate on the forum. You can read some thoughts on the issue on my blog at rhysdgriffiths dot wordpress dot com - Bananas.
Divide and conquer.
Bananas...you
bet.
Wonderful news is wonderful news. However, bananas are a sore subject in the world of international trade.
Stretch half way round the Globe? Why not, do they not travel about that distance?
I read that the financial side of
the banana business runs this way...
One Euros worth of bananas as purchased within Europe:-
1.Producer country, bananas exported for 13 cents. 12 cents labour cost 1 cent taxable profit.
2.Cayman Islands, fee for use of
purchasing network 8 cents.
3.Luxembourg,charge for use of company financial services 8 cents.
4.Ireland, charge for use of brand 4 cents.
5.IOM,charge for insurance services 4 cents.
6.Jersey,charge for management services 6
cents.
7.Bermuda,charge for use of distribution network 17 cents.
8,Consumer country, bananas imported for 60 cents. Retailer adds margin of about 40 cents. Approximately 1 cent taxable profits for consumer country.
Not to worry
though. Even as little tax is paid here we will probably give the producer country lots of public money in aid etc. - Mr. Pickles targets Chief Executives Pay.
Mr Pickles Secretary of State for Local Government cannot see the wood for the trees.He targets the pay packet of the Chief Executives when he should be targeting the enormous cost of the top heavy Local Government management
teams of East Kent.
- excellent multi agency idea to produce that dvd, if it stops one child being killed or left paralysed it will be worth it.
they
will take more notice of a young victim telling his story than any warning from the authorities. - Its a good time of the year to launch that safety DVD..see above.
Throughout the summer months you see kids doing the most reckless things down here on the seafront. Tombstoning from the top of the seafront shelters is one such phenomenon, and there are rocks below too, also doing likewise from the
curved wall to the Docks as well. Thats a long drop and could be lethal. The police do what they can to limit the activity but its very difficult. As soon as the police move away they are back at it again.
Good idea to draw
attention to this. - Great idea marketing this DVD aimed at the youngsters who may take up this dangerous pastime, hopefully they will have second thoughts next
time they think about taking a leap into the sea.
I remember seeing Sonny's very moving interview last year, a terrible shame, he now has to rely on his parents and carers help for the rest of his life. - H&S DVD.
This is another example of what is fundamentally wrong with the 'British' way of doing things.
Is scraping a child up off the road-surface any better?
Are those children who get their kicks from this phenomenon to instead try dashing across the motorway, leaping from rooftop to rooftop, drugs or burglary?
Must Dover's youngsters spend their spare time ogling suits of armour in the
castle or dreaming of space travel tied to their mothers' apron strings?
My own mother would shut me up from moaning by saying "worse things happen at sea".
Are we island dwellers to instil fear of the sea in our children?
Why not spend this public money on making this past-time safer?
My own brother had his neck broken at age 21 while playing rugby. Should rugby be banned?
On one of my visits with my brother in a spinal unit I met a young
tetraplegic (stuck for the rest of his life in bed) who was injured on his way home from the pub one night. S**t happens. - "Where is it" Being no longer
able to post in the private forum can I answer the question here ? "The round window". Is it in the church behind halls the newsagents on folkestone road. - REG
I realise your strong view on unitaries, but do you feel in all honesty it will become a
reality??? - Tom, I understand what you mean and also what H&S mean.
Maybe a 'safe' area needs to be promoted/ provided as you say but would it get used. - Hi Jan,
Would it get used?
I do not think these children are dare-devils, their's is not the death-defying feat. More thrill seeking fun.
If the intention of the
adult/authority stance is to free children from all risk what manner of adult would that produce in it's turn? Is there not a flag system for beaches where swimming is OK one day and dangerous the next day? Could this not be done with
regard to tides etc.? The thing is, risk taking/thrill seeking is part of growing up.
I have seen some footage today of a grown man drawing a crowd by diving more than ten metres into 30cms of water in a garden pool. - If it's a safe thing to do, they probably won't do it - generally, it's because it's not safe, it's a danger to them that they do it.
I would never have dreamt of
doing that thing as a kid, but the adrenalin rush it gives them should try to be found in another "exciting" way.
Roger - This item was featured on local TV
last night Tom. There was two young men talking to the local population courtesy of the TV programme both of them in wheelchairs.
One of the chaps on a hot summer day flung off his shoes, his jacket, and jumped from a pier. It was
a spurr of the moment thing to do on a hot day..but he remembers nothing after that, Jumped from 30ft into 3 ft of water , broke his neck and his back...he was on hand at the launch yesterday with another chap of similar tale (Sonny
Wells as featured in body copy above) trying to help the police sell this message of danger.
As I mentioned before watching kids of ten or eleven jumping from the roof of the seafront shelter here in Dover fills me with horror.
They have to run the length of the roof to gather the pace to clear the concrete pavement and railings below...thats before they are actually over water at all. One slip and...
Reckless energy can be channelled into sport or
something of that nature. - Good morning.
None of this is easy, yet it is worthwhile.
"it's a danger to them that they do it"
You say Roger, and you
are not wrong. How then does pointing-up the danger help?
You have hot days, children, sea and thrill seeking. This will not go away, will it?
In addition to 'spoiling' the bus shelter roof could you not set-up a water slide,
open to all at certain (safe) times of day?
The one big draw back in these times of no-fee claim chasers is, no doubt, that the local authority and the police will have to show that attempts were made to prevent mishap and another
obvious way round this is to inform the parents of the likely cost to all through claims and make it their problem, but the spoiling of that roof will have to come first.
Tidal depth boards on the sea wall would also (may also) send a
mixed message. Alton Towers etc. seem to manage to provide max-thrill at minimum danger.
The bottom line, it seems to me, is that you can indemnify the council and accommodate the children in safety or blame the children for being
children and washing your hands of the consequences via this DVD.
It's a little odd that there was no injured child who had taken part in this communal activity available. - P.S.
I read, a moment ago, on the Daily Telegraph online letters page an item, "There are children who can look after themselves."
Just a thought. - A
great campaign! We shall be meeting with DHB and Kent Poilice this evening at the Castle Forum meeting - 7:30 pm at the Community centre, 1 Maison Due Road. I am sure this will be also on the agenda ! All Castle ward residents welcome.
People outside the Castle ward are also welcome to see what we do !!
Les Richmond - Well done to the Port of Dover Police and DDC for
highlighting the dangers of "tombstoning" hopefully parents will do their bit as well and not just leave it to others to try and stop this reckless behaviour. Perhaps a fixed pontoon in the Harbour that the youngsters could swim out to
may become popular with those that currently tombstone? 
this is what awaits the tombstoners- English Forest Sell-Off.
Environment
Secretary Caroline Spelman has admitted her/governments policy of selling our forests was wrong. She admits that when ministers submit ill conceived policies and do not listen to public opinion they should apologise and go back to the
drawing board and plan B.Ministers/government are constantly putting forward policies on the hoof resulting in embarrassing 'U' turns/revisions. This does not build confidence in the general public
Mr Pickles is a minister who
should apologise and needs to revise/change his policies.
Other ministers who should reconsider their ill conceived policies are Messes Gove, Willetts, Osbourne, Fox,Clegg,Cable and Teresa May. With perhaps Duncan Smith waiting in
the wings All.these hic cups do not bode well.
- Reg
of course i share your views
but as i'v said before we have a cobbled together govt of left
leaning lib dems and central leaning(Owith right wing in waiting)tory party and theres no way can it work.
we are to see many more gaffs, climb downs, it's not good for the country,
- Here is one of Doverforum's newest Members Nigel Farage appearing on the BBC's Question Time last night. Nigel sadly hasnt posted with us
as of yet but joined up fairly recently so we live in hope.
As ever Nigel was and is a good television performer but once again last night failed to convince the voter that UKIP are anything other than a one issue party...as
almost every question he answered he started his reply by slating the EU no matter what the topic was.
Saying the bog standard things like...
"We pay £50million into the EU everyday if we didnt do that all our ills would be
cured".. and the other regular one like
"Labour sold off all our gold bars when prices were low"
UKIP need a few fresh lines of assault.
* *
Keith and Reg the Coalition Government does seem to be
working, although they have carried out some swivelling u-turns. The Libdems are not going to give up as they appear to have abandoned their original principles and are fully aware of their dire positioning with the pollsters....so are
likely to see out a full term. However I doubt this current government will see a second term as its already extremely unpopular, but no doubt they will sweeten the pot nearer an election in an effort to hang on.
*
*
Howard well done with those pictures there..shows what awaits the foolish tombstoner. - I suspect UKIP to go the same way as the new party/respect
party/alliance all flavour of the month then dissappear.
with regard to the coolition you are right they are unpopular and your right the lib dems will attempt to cling on to power.
it's if they are able is the question,
so many divisions, not just between the two parties, but also within there own ranks
where cameron taking a strong line with his own mp's yet letting lib dems get away with it.
it's- all on a knife
edge - I must agree that Mr Farage needs to give more support to what is happening in the UK and try to help more with us on the locals in May. I said this last night at the
A.G.M. and also to Mr Farage when along with others I had dinner with him two weeks ago. UKIP is not all about geting out of the EU it is and always be in the number one spot but at this time we need help to add to 300+ clls we already
have in the UK.
And Keith the New Party is still there as a party with lots of funding still in it. - vic
i think you miss my point
ukip/the new
party/respect parties
and others all start up get no where and dwindle and die
by winning seats will show they are here to stay
unless you an ukip win seats in may in the district elections you will wither and
die
theres only so long you can go on saying you split the vote
at some point you have to win seats
as i say i cant see winning seats for some time to come - Had this email through from Les Richmond who is the Chairman of Castle Forum.....it makes for interesting reading on a topic close to our hearts....
This past
weekend my wife and I had a long weekend in Buckinghamshire and Oxfordshire. When asked by locals ( on several occasions) as to where we were from, we replied “DOVER”. The majority of responses were ,
“ I am sorry it appears such a
sad and derelict place when we pass through to France – we never stop “
or words to this effect. The image of Dover is not as rosy as we would like to hear and made us also sad, there are great feelings ( by the people of Dover)
and work is being done, but there is lots to do to gain more public confidence in the Town ! Townwall Street does not paint a good picture of the town! There are not many places remaining that can boast they still have a bomb site from
the last war and the surrounding area reflects this too !
Saddened.
Les Richmond.
Thanks Les
Similar sad feelings about Dover's image have been expressed in the past ...but do things ever get
any better?
- Cheer up Paul-there are people out there trying to make a difference.
All Dovorians should realise that the 'Dover' brand is
priceless. At least the folks you spoke to didn't say, "uh Where?" The Gateway to Britain has unimaginable potential-and the whole world has heard of it. A WW2 bomb site!-open it as an attraction! ...Seriously it's all a matter of
perception and feeling positive about your town. - rather sad but anyone driving down to the ferry port would have no
choice but to reach that conclusion. - Sorry Paul -typo- I mean't Les!-
- I see on the Dover Town Council webside to day that a "Town Meeting" has been called by six residents of the town.
The motion is:
That a Town Referendum be held as to whether Dover Town Supports the Transfer of
Dover Port & Harbour to the Dover Peoples Port Trust
The meeting is on the 3rd of March. If the motion is accepted then I understand a referendum would have to be held at the expence of Dover Town
Council. - There are "ground-floor" things that Dover needs to do, but doesn't.
Tidying up the buildings from around the Market Square and along Castle Street, up
Cannon Street and Biggin Street.
Some of them need new windows, some a good coat (or two) of paint and some need the plants taken out of the walls and gutters.
The owners of the buildings need writing to about them and they
need naming and shaming if they don't - there was an element of success with the Wetherspoons building in Castle Street a couple of years ago.
Townwall Street/Snargate Street is mostly a disgrace; knock buildings down or cover/do
them up.
Chewing gum, litter, drunks - all need clearing from the Town Centre.
Flowers in hanging baskets and tubs - should be brightening up the Town all year round; there's no (or very little) public money for this, so maybe
the businesses need to asked if they would contribute financially.
Don't wait until May to relaunch the market, we're almost in March, start now - use money already pledged to do it and get new stall-holders here and promote the
market to the people of Kent, not just Dover - but it has to be a market to be proud of, not embarrassed about.
It might be an obvious things to say, but if you're not open for business you're not going to take any
money.
Dover should be a destination for visitors/tourists, not a "to-it-and-through-it" Town, but who is working on that ?
I know I've said about what DoverPride does and it's partnerships, but it needs to get its
hands dirty (metaphorically speaking) with some ground-floor work as mentioned above, or pay the salary for someone to work on it.
Roger - The main roads into the
port are the ones that need improving as they are what those catching a boat see. The vast majority of Channel hoppers do not even get as far as the town centre.
I believe the market is a lost cause down in the square, it needs
to be in the thriving shopping area for people to use it. - Jan, the ferry operators depend also on their travellers purchasing a meal or a snack on the ferry, and entering the
shop with which each ship is equiped.
This creates employment for the people working on the Channel ferries. - Sorry Alexander, I do not see the relevance of your post
to mine which was about the roads.
I know how important the catering side is to the ferries, it kept my husband employed for well over 20 years. - If the main roads into
the port are the ones that need improving in order to attract the attention of the Channel travellers, this would imply spending a lot of money in order to get them to stop over and shop in Dover.
Hence my post: it is not
necessary, as they are already catered for on the ferry, and even within the waiting-room in the docks. There are shops and restaurants galore both within the docks and on the ferries.
My point is, there is no need to spend
enormous sums of money to attract the port's customers (the travellers) into the Town. If we did, we could be potentially ruining ourselves financially and ruining the business of the ferry-operators. - When I commented about the lack of stalls in the Market Square (with the Big Telly stating something about food from around the world) BarryW said that it was closed until
April. I did note however that the CofC banner was up again this morning. So has it re-opened? - in a way terry, the bread and cake seller was there and a couple of
food vans.
alex
due to changes in shift patterns fewer and fewer dover people work on the ferries. - It's not really closed or open Terry, it's seems
kind of, in nomans-land really, neither one thing or the other.
The weather doesn't help of course, but the stalls need to be here every week so people know they'll be there and will come down to buy.
It needs a new body to
run and manage it - properly.
Roger - The only way is to open up again the cover Market again just down from the Market Square,been saying that for years down,it
would work because the other one is closed down now ,and that was in the wrong place anyway. - Sorry about some of my wording at this time.My eyes are playing up, I went
to up to TESCO to get a new pr specs and they were very very good they found soming at the back of my eye they wrote to the Dr about it ,I have now seen him and after looking into them again, I have to go to the eye dept at the
Hospital. - Regarding the "covered market" that Vic refers to, formerly Dickies Discount, I notice that workmen were in there on Friday. Are Dover Pride or DAD up to
something? I see that the Box Gallery is empty. - this has been discussed on the dover pride thread terry.
the box galleries have been empty for about 2 weeks,
workmen started in there last monday. - It is this smallest of pities, but a pity nonetheless that nothing has been said about the recent castle ward meeting and the
tombstoning that may have made it onto the agenda.
Come in Les Richmond. Is there nothing to add. Although it is yet early days there might have been feedback from the showing of the DVD.
I am sure all will be revealed in due
course. - Hope all is well with your eyes Vic, just shows the benefit of having your eyes
tested. - Tom Austin: I can confirm that tombstoning is constantly on our minds at Castle Forum. The membership are all old and grey and none of us are far removed from lying
beneath one. - Ed Connell, As I said. There is no rush.
- As you cross over that famous
brow on the A20 you see that magnificent vista spread out before you. The motorist, the traveller, catches their first view of the bright blue sea sparkling in the distant sunlight below. Its an exciting moment. I remember when i saw it
for the first time. The harbour, way ahead in the distance, was basking in glorious sunshine, with the white ships excitingly tooing and froing.
The approach to Dover is very good. The road sweeps down before you with rolling
green hills to the left and to the right.
As you get closer the Castle springs into view. Its extremely impressive.
But..and there's always a but..the devil is in the detail.
Snargate Street with its scattering of
cheap looking diners and pubs, and architecture of the mangled hotchpodge variety, is the first glimpse you see of Dover itself. No glorious terraces here. However it gets worse than this as we know. Snargate St morphs into the awful
Townwall St and the visitor sees the full horror of neglect and poverty on one side, and a prison for old folk on the other. Its all too grim. Its all way too grim.
The foot presses hard on the
accelerator. - Comments like these do nothing to help Dover .Work is going on quietly behind the scenes to improve Dover .remember this forum is read by many
.Dover District has so much to offer .I was in Deal on Saturday what a gem it is and going there this morning .
Just outside of Dover we have the most lovely country side .Travel along the A 2 towards Canterbury and you can see
beatiful countryside .
Snargate street has always struggled however it is a street of interest .
I think the Gateway flats were built with a casting vote of the old Borough Council .
Paul as editor of this forum comments like
these donot help .
If you can do better why not stand for the council elections in May .Im sure you could take on Nigel - On a new thread on the forum Trevor Bond is
talking about the grand opening of The Marina Hotel A good bit of publicty and good luck to the owners who have invested in Dover .
A bit tongue in cheek when the editor of the forum states he will give PR coverage on the forum
.
You cannot talk down Dover and then give PR to a leading hotel .How many would be visitors will be put off .by your comments on this page
Dont worry Trevor I will come along if invited wearing a hat .
I donot drink more
than a fruit juice as you know whilst on duty . - What the standin Chairman of the D.D.C has said,we have heard 100times before,she goes on to say alot is happening behind the
scenes ,that has been happening for the pass 35years it is in the Town we need to see it happening, £100.000s have been used up behind the scenes . - we cannot pretend
that townwall street does not exist, milions upon millions drive through it every year and they form their impression of dover on what they see. - paulb,there is no
pubs along snargate street any more,not that i am aware off anyway.
sue,when i go into town from aycliffe all i see is dereliction so in theory paulb is correct at the time of
publishing. - Sue
Work might be going on behide the scene but until the people of Dover know when and what is going to be done, the comments are bound to continue.
Townwall Street and Snargate Street are the main roads that visitors see when going to and from the port, giving the impression that the whole of Dover is tatty which is completely wrong. Inspite of our moans about the town because
we want to see improvements, it is no worse than any other town in Kent in fact a great deal better than most. Every town has good and bad bits.
I think Paul has enough to do without trying to get him to run for council, he could
get elected then what would happen to this wonderful forum.
One other small and possibly petty point, this is the DOVER forum no need to praise Deal on the very front page.LOL
- we have many posters from deal on here jan, i think the "dover" bit refers more to dover district.
brian
there is a closed down pub near the "grand shaft" that drivers
would see. - Ah, memories of the "Avenue", once the home of F. E. Dunster the landlord who once served in the RAF. Models of WW2 aircraft hung from the ceiling,
they were always covered in about an inch of dust. The Americans would have loved him and the pub, if he chose to serve them of course. He was a miserable blighter who would totally ignore you if your face didn't fit! - Howard
I know we have Deal posters and readers of the forum that was why I put LOL at the end as sadly we have no smileys on the
Front Page.
I was trying to lighten my post up a little and obviously failed, LOL and here is yet another one. LOL - I have a moment ago 'driven' in to Dover along the
A2 and along the A20 from the west. Via Google Maps. Perhaps you are all a little too close to things, but the aspect of Dover looks quite pleasant. The A20 along the coast line, who could ask for more? There is a facility too to view
snapshots of places and points of interest and the picture captioned, "cars queuing to board the ferry to Calais" is not the least mundane with the cliffs as backdrop.
There is bound to be a great deal (no pun intended) on the mind
of the traveller as they approach the port, but the sight of the sea and the walls of chalk must lift the spirits of many of them.
A friend of mine travelled through last summer and had an overnight wait to board his ship. I shall
quiz him as to his impression and get back to you. - Re: the youth club in the old indoor market. Opening reported on page 25 of the DE last week. Youngsters from
Prince's Trust scheme working on a mural for the site. - Yes Rhys, good stuff. Merely bringing to people's attention again. A good use for a defunct building. Central
too! - Me too, just in case people didn't spy it in the paper first time around. It's good to see the space being put to good use.
- Terry Mr Dunster was OK it was one of my watering holes years ago.And all the planes hanging up, that was the smallest pub in Kent,I think it is a eating house now.
- i have just returned from Deal after attending a funeral of a well respected gentleman There must have been over three hundred people in the church .
Im sorry Mr
nearly elected councillor but I cannot post on confidential issuies or commercial sensivity .
Im sure Peter from Blakes can tell you all about the CPO process .Land assembly cannot be done over night .
Dovers tragedy is that the St
Jameses area is so near to the busy Townwall Street .If it were nearer to Pencester it would not be so noticiable .
Some of the derelict sites are in private ownership.All the bull at the gate rushing in will not alter that .
Jan ,I always post as a District Councillor .Many of those in the church today come under DDC .If people want a good moan you have eighteen Town Councillors Sandwich and Deal seem to be progreesive ..A good Chamber of Commerce and
various other organisations
- Re the Avenue, now the Arlington, as I said Vic, if your face fitted!
- just under re modernisation at mo when i passed it recently(arlington)
- howard,i was talking about active pubs that are open
for trade. - i realise that brian, but paul was referrng to motorists passing and what their reaction would be.
- howard,i understood what paul was saying,but i can remember two pubs that were open,the york house and the arlington,one in limekiln street [the archcliffe] and 3 down by the lord warden house,the rose and crown,the cinque
ports and the goldenarrow all well attended. - So folks why don't Dover residents use these establishments?
You can't say they don't offer variety, choice & someone
else putting their hands in their pockets& draining their savings to give it a go.
- You are one missing it was by the seven star flats first
letter it was the P--- - Just a quickie to thank Tom for his post - I'm so glad to hear that you had a good impression of Dover. It makes such a nice change to read
something really positive about our town, sadly from the continual online denigration of this town one reads here and elsewhere, I'm surpised anyone comes to visit!
We do have spectacular views, wonderful wildlife, amazing
history and a wonderful network of voluntary groups and individuals who work their bums off to improve the area for no financial reward. Many towns of Dover's size would cry out for a fraction of the committed people Dover
has.
No, it's not perfect, but unless one rates shopping as the be-all and end-all, Dover has a lot to offer. I really think some people should go elsewhere, look around at other towns of an equivalent size and come back, they'd
soon appreciate the town a lot more. Wood for trees.
I moved to Dover ten years ago, and although I find the inertia frustrating at times, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else.
- The view of Dover as you approach on the A20 is quite stunning especially on a sunny day with cruise ships in as is the Jubilee Way approach, however the actual approach and exit to the
Port(Eastcliffe, Townwall Street and Snargate Street) are shameful. It is not helped by the amount of traffic lights on that stretch of road which gives people chance to see the squalor as they wait for the lights to
change. 
i will get a hammering for this martin, but this is what they see.- Exactly Howard.
- I spent a short time in Niagara Falls some years ago. I was told that at about seven each
evening the effluent produced by the good people of New York State poured over the falls. Not such a good thing as I am sure you can appreciate. What could the Canadians do about it?
They flood lit the falls with coloured beams.
Resulting in oohs and ahs rather than eeks and yikes.
A small financial incentive or a local ordinance to the effect that property owners maintain their assets in good order could lead to much improvement and a little boost to
employment in the town. Would this not be for the benefit of all? - If I was on the District Council and had a say in the planning of the town,I would pack up,this town
has never never looked so bad even just after the war.And said this before we have over the last 35years had plans after plans costing now well over £100.000 and nothing has been done only the puting up of fences and bad paintings around
the boundarys of sites,
And again we hear from them alot going on behind close doors ,that might be true but it is doing nothing for Dover, and if the reds get in power in May will it get better it is a ver big no to that. - Just drive up the road to harwich and see the burnt out cars, or closed down pubs outside portsmouth ferry terminal. nothing surprising for a port
town - Martin and Howard are right,the eyes do not lie it is all there to see,And the public coming to Dover or passing it by to the docks just see what is there year after year
after year.TRY TELLING THEM THAT IT IS ALL HAPPING BEHINND CLOSE DOORS.
I hate talking like this about Dover I was born here in the war ,all my family have moved away from it but I stay because My Mum and Dad died here my son died
here ,I will die here.But lets just see it geting better before that happens please , - For the upteenth time Vic .When you are dealing with developers and CPOs you can
not discuss it on an open forum or indeed with any member of the public .You have seen the new plans in the local paper .
That part of the town has not been boarded up as you state for thirty five years .It was only in the past four
years or less the bus Company moved out .When I came here forty years ago we had a PO office there plus the Southern TV company .
The crypt was still in Bench street
You cannot get rid of council departments on a whim.A good
reason has to be found otherwise you end up with hefty pay outs .
.Some of the work our planners produce is excellent .Indeeed they have received awards .
- Even the
roads leading to the DDC offices there is rubbish all over the place just, they must see it all when they come into work from Deal and Dover and againwhen they go home,If I was acllr up there I would have to try and get it all clean
up,if you go to other council offices around parts of kent like Kings hill, and Maidstone it is all nice and clean if they can do it why not Dover, - The road to...
(well, not Dover, I am sure) is paved with good intentions, so it is said.
Planning for the future in local government terms is ever the victim of changing priorities. Or more correctly changing political leadership. Dover is not
alone in this. Critically at this time it must be realised also that the love of 'saving' money is no better than the love of money itself. If only public money could be utilised by the public locally to bring about a face-lift and
much else for the town you are each so proud of. Here again the Americans seem to be ahead of the curve. They pay a local tax and they ensure that the citizens have a say in how it is spent. Here in the UK central funding is seen as the
be all and end all . Central Government blames local councils, local councils blame Central Government...and the people mark (or not) their 'X' in the box every couple of years or so, just for the Red to blame the Blue...and on it
goes. Politics, both Local and Central is all about the politicians and their respective 'churches'. Bla-bla-bla-bla.
[and the contract they hammer out. Sheesh, best not to start in on that]
BTW
I watched Michael Palin on
tv the other night, he was visiting Vladivostok. A city that was closed to western visitors up to the 1990's. Their splendid railway station looked bright and cheerful. Newly painted as it was by a visiting Italian film company...just
an idea. - Did they receive a reward for St James Street, Did they receive award for the Townwall St development,and not to forget the great development of the one and
two bedroom Flats at Folkstone Rd and others dotted around the Town and alot more on top of that. The reward I am thinking about is DCBM.(Dont come back Monday). Sorry one more the old Paper mill site, now that is a real good one.There
is alot of rewards to give out to DDC to, like the closed Toilets Reward,Like the unclean streets of the town reward.
There is no end to all the rewards they get. As you said the Bench St Development where I might add 7members of
the public died there in the fire. Do not tell me about the excellent work that is done up at DDC we see it 24/7 in the Town and in some of the wards. We have been seeing new plans in the paper for again over 35years but nothing and I
say that again nothing has been done. Inferior councils from the 1970s have done all what we see today Also with all the flats that have gone up it has made the town sociality unbalance.How can any of you look at yourselfs and say yes we
got it right and are doing agood job. - I think its important that people speak out and call for change...otherwise you wont get it. Vic speaks there about the 35 year
long limbo during which time nothing has happened, only the gradual piece by piece erosion of a once buoyant town. I base this knowledge of the town's buoyancy on the whole series of photographs we have seen as supplied on here by our
historians.
You must call out for change..and not be told you are talking Dover down. The talking Dover down notion is another way of telling you to be quiet and accept the status quo..is it not?
Interestingly its the older
ones among us calling for change and even trying to deliver change. Where are the next generation?? Where are they..the forty somethings. Why arent they clamouring for change, why arent they clamouring for innovation and jobs. Have all
the movers shakers and drivers of that generation already left and gone to make their fortune in the shadow of the Gherkin?
Good pictures there Howard showing the situation and speaking volumes. If the councillors cannot get an
ASDA replacement for the DTIZ area in the near future then its time to bite the bullet and turn Townwall St into parkland. Demolish everything from York St roundabout to Maison Dieu and 'park it'.
That will catch the eye of the
passing tourist and get him to linger. Visit Kent tell us that tourism is growing significantly.. you may have seen their recent report. This could help our economics if we can get a slice of that, as there are little prospects of jobs
coming from elsewhere. - Spot on Paul even if the reds get in at District in May the Town will not be better off ,what is needed is get rid of the old school tie
network up there,most of the staff are very good at their jobs and most of the depts are very helpfull ,but not the planning dept.they do nothing for Dover. - Some of
you talk a lot of mumbo jumbo .Burlington House cannot be demolished until a hotel is built on the DTIZ site .There are numerous masts to be relocated .The new master plan is completely different .
I think certain posters should
be wary of how they speak re Planners
.The litter is cleared near the offices indeeed i saw chaps removing it only the other day .
Who throws the litter .The people who live here Let us look at the former United reform
Church bottom of Priory Hill /High Street .A good use was beeing made of a redundant building ,then what happens it catches fire just as it was nearing completition .
Now in the hands of insurance claims etc .The old Prince of Wales
building .Good work was going on there then the housing market slowed down .No builder can continue without finance ..
.If and I say if Vic were elected tomorrow He would not be able to change anything.Over the years especially the
past eight years I have seen how hard Cllr Watkins works to get things done
You cannot get through legality at the drop of a hat .
Frustrating as it is .
A lot of the derilict sites as I have stated previously are in private
ownership .
.
- What is this nonsense "Old School Tie "
- Its Like along playing record,I do support
what Mr Watkins is trying to do but he is only one --- - Vic you just answered your own question.Paul Watkins is the Leader of the Council,if you got elected you will
be a minor,you may not even get on the Planning Committee.
Everyone is trying not just blowing hot air,we admire what you do,but if you get elected what then?More Hot air.You will achieve very little if any thing.Sorry you will be
one of 45 and in a minor party at the Council,seat allocations are made by the number of Cllrs each group have.It looks as if should you get there you might spend the next 2-4 years on Governance Committee that will sort you out, my
first meeting lasted 5 and a half hours. - SECOND CROSS-CHANNEL GIANT TAKES A BOW
Spirit of France, the
second of two giant new ferries for the Dover-Calais service, took to the water for the first time on Friday (18 February) when she was floated out of her construction dock at the STX Europe shipyard in Rauma, Finland.
Senior
company officials including chief executive Helen Deeble and the new ship’s senior master Captain Steve Johnson were on the quayside in sub-zero temperatures to witness the flooding of the dry dock.
Over the next six months Spirit
of France will be fitted out and is then due to be delivered in September when she will join her identical twin Spirit of Britain, already in service on the English Channel.
“With capacity for up to 2,000 passengers, and three separate vehicle decks capable of carrying nearly four kilometres of traffic parked end to end, these huge ships open a new era in cross-Channel travel,” said
Helen Deeble. Their revolutionary design, with a unique hull form that reduces drag in shallow Channel waters and enhances fuel economy, means P&O Ferries can carry twice the payload of today’s ferries for the same running
costs.”
Motorists access the ships’ restaurants, bars, lounges and shopping via their own private car deck which has special lanes for those selecting priority loading. Freight drivers have exclusive facilities
including showers, DVD seat back entertainment and a large restaurant.
The above is a Press Release from P&O. Grateful thanks to them for the information.
Top shot shows the Spirit of France currently being built in Finland.
Bottom shot shows the Spirit of Britain soon after her first arrival in Dover. - Never mind "old school tie", the chip on Vic's shoulder is growing. LOL, LOL,
LOL.
- Dear Paul B,
I have no desire to appear ungrateful. I have noted your post on the front page to the effect that we must call out for change and not be intimidated
by the powers that be.
It was your very self that posted photos of the terrible state of DTIZ and then took them down because CL Watkins was of the opinion that the (the Photos) gave Dover a bad name.
"People who live in glassd
houses should'nt throw stones" springs to mind - You are kidding arent you Jimmy!!
I though I answered that question for you before. We ran a number of front
page expose's on delapidation at different times. Paul Watkins never asked me to take 'em down or interfered. He did mention the stuff could be seen around the world but its still our job to put it up and we did. And we have done
several times...I dont know how long you have been looking in but we've been doing it for years. And of course we change pictures every few days anyway.
You clearly only have part info
there. - good to see photos of the "spirit of france", looking forward to it arriving at dover.
could be another big turn out, better weather in
september. - Dear Paul B,
I hang my head in shame. I clearly have not got my facts correct, However I can clearly recall seeing Mr Watkins picture in one of the
locals becrying your posting. - He may well have done Jimmy but that wouldnt put us off!
Paul has known what we get up to for years and years and I dont think
he would expect us to be any different now.
* *
Howard yes P&O will have a very impressive fleet once the new ship joins in. As it says in the press release just below, they have improved their green credentials with
these new vessels in that they carry much more volume for the same amount of energy burn. This also works well on costs of course. Hugely important in difficult times.
There was an interesting item on one of the news channels last
night about Maersk. They( Maersk) are about to build the biggest ships ever envisaged...on a scale much larger than anything else ever seen and this is a reality. Sadly I was half asleep and didnt pay a great deal of attention to the
item but now I wish I had. But they will be fantastically 'green' in that they will carry vast cargoes for the same fuel burn. Not only does it work in economic terms but it works for the environment.
Ed Connell will know more
on all this. Ed are you looking in?? have you heard about Maersks latest venture? - PaulB, I agree with you that it would be better to make a park out of DTIZ.
I'd suggest from the river Dour to Maison Dieu Road.
Frankly speaking, any grand plans to build anything there for now is a waste of time and would be a waste of money, which could also potentially bring many commercial outlets
in Dover to their knees.
We have more than enough shops and s-markets, and enough hotels too. I could give a long list of supermarkets in Dover where people can shop, and add many smaller shops to the list.
If anything,
some suburban areas of Dover could do with the odd corner-shop, but that's about all. To build some grand-slam project of who knows what in DTIZ could result a year down the line in the papers being full of it, of how it all went wrong!
At enormous costs to the investors! - paulb
it's not only you senior members calling for change, it's us youngsters lol
but realy, lot's of youngsters
are also calling for change, lots want to see at least something, but also to have a voice.
There is no chance of vic getting elected, to the district council, he may well split the vote and let in the tories or lib dems not
sure which as im not in whitfield.
if vic wins a district council seat i will buy him a pint(theres a challenge!!)
- i must admit i am becoming warm to the
parkland idea, if done correctly with shaded areas, ponds and glades.
would be beneficial to us locals and attractive to people intending just to pass through. - That's right, Howard. We could call it 'Celtic Dover Park'.
There would be more of a chance that some people might stop over and wander through the Town, realising that Dover is Britain's oldest Port.
That would
also make more sense to attract people at the Castle to visit the Town, something original, unique, that no other town or city has: the title of being Britain's oldest Port.
The Bronze Age Boat would fit in well in this aspect.
By building another hyper-market, we would just ruin all this: one gets hyper-markets all over Britain, but no-where does one find another Dover! - Yes the park idea
is the thing. Lets face it once ASDA pulled out taking their muscle and their money with them, nothing was ever going to happen. Nothing soon anyway. A forlorn search for someone new to take over is just that ..forlorn.
The
problem is.. once ASDA went down the tube I personally knew that I would be 'well dead' before I saw any development there. The councillors currently doing it would also be dead, our readers here on doverforum..yes that's you, would
very probably also be dead...so for heavens sake its time to shelve all the high flying notions, admit failure, and get on with turning it into parkland from York St to the Swimming Pool complex, and demolish everything in between. It
cannot be beyond the wit of man to find somewhere to put the bloody aerials on Burlington House! Further down Townwall St turn that useless overgrown Boathouse area into a carpark.
Imagine how attractive it could be to the passing
driver. Green and inviting. A pond with real fish in it ( Calais can do it). Some flowers, but not too many, and in the summer one corner could have a bouncy castle for the kids and every car passing with children onboard would want to
stop and enjoy and linger. Kiddy power in operation. Tourist spending power to help give us jobs.
Keef yes I just wonder where the next generation to take up the mantle is..they are all very quiet. Have they all already left? I
ask that in all innocence as i dont know. All the current doers are as ancient as I am...soon to take refuge in the green pastures of those blue remembered hills!!
The academic youngsters sadly have to move away. A person has one
child, they go away to university and thats it...they never return. - PaulB - Some good ideas, if development was really dead. But lets face it, where would all
the money come from? Not just the capital to do what you suggest but the maintenance costs, it would need a lot of maintenance. The costs would be very high indeed and for little or no financial return. There just 'aint
any...... - A further thought to what I just posted.
If there was enough money to do what you are suggesting PaulB. Then might it not be better spent as
additional investment on 'de-risking' the site?
In so doing reducing the costs of a commercial development and making it more attractive and commercially viable for a shopping centre?
Why can’t it turn a profit?
Simply by bring in more visitors will create profit, cafe, newspaper booth, kiddies rides etc, can all turn a profit, but best of all, the
human profit, of having such a place to take your children and enjoy life, for locals and visitors, is just as important as money.
- Top post
Gary. - I love the vision that PaulB has painted of the park area, but we already have Pencester Gardens so sadly I doubt we would be allowed to have two nice green areas in
the middle of town. The whole area could just be grassed over as a temporary measure though at least it would look more inviting.
Sue posted "Burlington House cannot be demolished until a hotel is built on the DTIZ site. There
are numerous masts to be relocated".
Is there a reason they could not go on the Gateway or any other building in that area, surely the height is similar, also do we really need another hotel down that part of town. - You cannot get away from the facts of life Gary. Unless you have the money you cant do anything.
- looks like
paul has opened a can of worms with his park idea.
seems that many posters are in favour, gary detailed his ideas and how it can be paid for.
if it did come to fruition i can see it being popular with locals and visitors
alike. - I was careful not to suggest anything too expensive or outlandish as asking for too much usually means you get nothing. A simple approach, a simple plan for
change. The largest cost would be in the demolition, but hopefully some substantial sea-change money could be available if we presented them with our 'green' vision.
They did come up with the goods for the seafront
modernisation. Quite a substantial sum from them has certainly improved things and once the Marina Hotel is open here we should have a very well refreshed seafront.
Maintaining the new park should not be prohibitive and with a new
carpark further down along Townwall St the DDC would still get an inflow of revenue. The DDC are not a 'for-profit' organisation so should be able to actively deliver what the people want. Thats what they are supposed to do.
The
park would not generate council tax, I suppose thats the pitfall, but it would develop a feeling of well being for all of us living here and attract the free spending holidaymaking passer-by in an era when Tourism is our only growth
prospect. Suddenly Dover instead of looking delapidated would look green and appealing to those who always scurry through. - The council could invite McDonalds to
build a drive thru on that spot. It would create local jobs,invite people to pullover in Dover and give the council some premium rate council tax. - the idea seems to be
gaining pace, what about a small man made
lake where a charge would be made for angling? - And those Lancaster bombers could be used to drop their bouncing bombs
in the harbour to do the demolition of Burlington House - that's a crazy idea I know but as likely to happen as another park for the dossers and alkies to hang about in while they watch the world pass by en route to the
ferries. - Dover requires one straight forward project for the DTIZ area, rather than an ensemble of vague ideas which involve high-risk financial investments with no
guarantee of a financial return (for the investors).
A green area, in the form of a park, does not imply high maintenance costs, involving some occasional garden-work and lawn-mowing. A plan to build some kind of tunnel along
Townwall Street, such as David Hanent proposed, a cut and close tunnel, would also reduce pollution in the air and silence the port-traffic noise, adding to the green ecology nature of the proposal.
This requirement - to reduce
unacceptable pollution levels in the town-centre, is also justifiable and would find support in the environment and anti-degradation laws.
It would also look nice from the Castle area, if the idea is - among others - to attract
visitors from the Castle.
It is not said that one day in the future, Dover could not put up a nice building in the green park if a scope for it presented itself.
- Does seem a silly idea to me, there is already the excellent Kearsney Park plus Pencester and Connaught. Nothing is going to happen without commercial money and who will want to sit in a park next to a smoky dual
carriageway!!
Who is going to pay for all of the land and demolitions that need to take place and who is going to pay for the upkeep? I'd rather the millions be spend on our heritage and let this area commecially thrive once
people are attracted to the area. - visitors don't know about kearsney, connaught and pencester, they cannot see anything pleasant so they do not
stop.
the alternative seems to be another 10 years of looking at the squalor. - Paul I think you miss the core point there though..that is the fact that the
DTIZ area needs developing. Giving the money to say the heritage sites, worthy though it might be...wont get the job done here in Townwall St.. This area will still look dreadful to the passer-by.
Ive been here living opposite
the site for 13 years or so and despite promises nothing at all has happened....apart from the demolition of the bus garage, which was a joyous moment, although that particular joy was shortlived. But not a single sod has turned in the
name of development.
I was going to say to you exactly what Howard says there...nobody at all driving by here would have heard or even know where Kearsney is. I dont even know where it is myself. A milion people passing right by
here every month will always react to what they see from their car window.
Instead of delapidation give them the colour green and attract them to linger. It could
work.
- It all seems a nice idea but there are land purchased required, buying out the County Hotel, very expensive demolitions of Burlington House and the
multi-story, major groundworks, landscaping, roadworks, etc etc
I just cannot see where the money is expected to come from when there is zero income and this will all cost millions.
Millions of people pass through extensive
countryside on the way into Dover and I am not convinced a couple of hundred yards of grass and trees will get people to stop. If there was decent shops, restaurants. heritage and coffee shops that would get me to stop..... - there would be a good case for central government to intervene, at present travellers are given a bad impression of the gateway to england.
there would be income when
everythng is set up, certainly enough to cover maintenance costs. - May I echo Martin's sentiments. Top post Gary! and well done PaulB.
What a difference a day makes; so true.
If public money is to be
expended what better way than for public utilisation and if it helps create a better impression of Dover or Kent or beyond, both in the minds and on the digital memories of visitors and travellers, so much the better. Towns are for
living in.
There is never any money to do what some do not wish to do, but for issues over which the public has no say there is money aplenty. - I have also put this
on the members page.
After alot of thinking over the last two weeks I will now tell you I will be standing in some seats as a Independent in May. Thank you. - just a post in one place is enough vic.
- Ray, you don't abandon plans because
of "dossers and alkies” you deal with them.
As, has been said before, Dover's problem is linking town and seafront. Perhaps a tourist choo-choo train from park to seafront or even link park/seafront into castle cable car
project, that would give castle visitors a reason to explore Dover?
- Link in cruise terminal as well, them Yanks love all
that!!!!!!!!! - Paul Scotchie, to be realistic, which private investor, in particular in today's recession, is going to invest millions to clear away Burlington House and the
multi-story carpark, and pay the cost for evacuating the County hotel and paying its owners out, as well as buying a piece of land in DTIZ, to then build a shopping centre and employ the staff, after providing for sufficient car-parking
space for customers, all at their own expense?
PaulB's idea of a green park is realistic, and it does not exclude that one day a dining-house or other building - even a classical English pavillion - could be constructed within
the park.
We might find the secret that will attract people to stop, or to descend from the Castle to the Town, but no-matter what that secret is, Burlington house and the adjacent concrete slabs have to be taken down first!
I think this is what many people living in that area in particular would like to see, the disappearance of those concrete blocks, and perhaps a tunnel for the Townwall port-
traffic. - some really positive posts about the green stuff welcoming visitors.
we are rid of seeda with their slogans and banners, dover pride will no doubt claim
victory for some small change or other.
we all want to see something attractive for us and our visitors to enjoy, the next generation will not thank us if we bequeath them with them with the present dereliction. - Alexander - you ask me:
"to be realistic, which private investor, in particular in today's recession, is going to invest millions to clear away Burlington House
and the multi-story carpark, and pay the cost for evacuating the County hotel and paying its owners out, as well as buying a piece of land in DTIZ, to then build a shopping centre and employ the staff, after providing for sufficient car
-parking space for customers, all at their own expense?
This is the sort of thing that is a drop in the ocean for Walmart or M&S, but to come from your council tax.... ?? - Paul, I think we are talking in circles. Why should a large chain-store company spend so much money in Dover when we already have stores in plenty?
They look at their
business and their return.
One thing is to build a supermarket, such as Morison did, near an already existing large car-park; something entirely different is for a private investor to shoulder the costs of major redevelopment and
then build yet another supermarket.
Drops in the ocean of millions of pounds could apply to a large oil-concern, but todays company directors of the more modest supermarket chains cannot risk oceanic enterprises in an area
saturated with commercial outlets.
Let's face it, Burlington House in itself was a bright-spark project, but which failed dismally. The millennium wheel was a huge expense, but now stands there and probably needs more money on
maintenance than it would reep on income.
A Sheik in the Gulf had the idea to build an artificial palm-island to attract tourists, but what a disaster at huge expense!
If I am not mistaken, people driving towards the
Docks coming from the Whitfield area pass Tesco, and in general, people travelling along busy roads pass many shops and restaurants equipped with large car-parks designed specifically for them to stop over.
By the time they reach
DTIZ, they will have passed all these places, and are likely to have already stopped over and eaten or done some shopping in at least one of them.
Or may-be they are looking forward to a meal on the ferry. To want to stop in Dover,
people would need to be looking for something original, attractive, which probably is more akin to blossoming trees on a green lawn near an old water-mill. - Dreams, a lot
of dreams and with no practical suggestions of how they can be delivered. No, Howard - regarding your comment, Gary did not say how PaulB's idea could be paid for at all. Do you realise the scale of costs that would be involved?
Clearly not.
Seriously - this is a very complex problem and no-one here really has a realistic solution, me included.
- A dream of sorts but it could be
done, because its a reasonable dream. The current stagnation trundles on, if thats not an oxymoron, more in hope than expectation with little prospect of anything happening. Bond City are out there scouring the business world but with
not a whiff of a taker. Every avenue has already been explored..even Paul Watkins himself said on here onetime that they had tried every leisure outfit known to man..from bowling alley option to cinema option, they asked them all to come
here but all declined. So the business development option is looking a thin morsel at this stage.
I personally saw it as a terrible blow when ASDA pulled out. I knew the area would be painfully left as is for ever.
Yes it
would be expensive, the real expense being in the demolition. But no, money wouldnt come from Council Tax...we had millions, millions of Sea Change money given to us recently, it went on the Castle and on the Seafront. It was government
money. In the next few years more of this money will be available.
So instead of our councillors and officers chasing business developers who have shunned us for years and years...do the self help approach, get government money
and put a park in it!
Anyway...I have to leave this hope in the melting pot for now and get on with the next story...which will be up shortly. - If you want
to see the attraction of a bit of grass , come along to the Strand in Deal on a Sunday afternoon, when a band is on at the bandstand, whole families come out with their tables, chairs and picnics, in their
hundreds. - This is the season of Film Awards..we've had the Baftas, weve had the Golden Globes, we are about to have the Oscars...but forget ye
not..we've had our own Film Festival in Dover which was covered in our Forum section recently...but here is the latest information just in from Karol Steele....
thats the lady herself shown left holding her very own
'Oscar'.
* *
Despite falling on Valentine's Day, hundreds of people attended the 2011 Dover Film Festival on Monday, which featured the screening of the Short Film competition entries.
The
crowds who came to Dover's Town hall were entertained by Mike McFarnell's 2010 Dover Film, showing the life in the town over the past 12 months. Ray Warner's 1960 Dover Film, and no less than 12 films in the Short Film competition.
There was also an exhibition in the Stone Hall, featuring displays from the town's organisations and businesses including The Dover Society, Dover Community Radio, the Western Heights Preservation Society, The Dover Sea Scouts, The
Dover Town Carnival Court, and County Brides.
The Short Film contest was judged by a panel of judges, including local actors, Hain MacSheonin and Lis Snellin, public vote, and internet viewers votes. Top prize was taken by
Christchurch college Film Studies graduate Barry Leach for his Film Sweet Dreams are Made of Cheese, which featured the talents of the young actors from FHODS and Dover acting family Karol And Ben Steele. Sweet Dreams was also awarded
the Best Fictional Short Film, Best Student Film and the Judges Choice Award. Best Documentary was given to Suffolk-based film-maker Lucy Shepherd, for her film The Children of Vietnam, which showed the work done by the CoV group to
help the lives of the young orphans of that country. Lucy was also awarded the Judges Choice prize.
The Public Choice Awards went to Canterbury College students Ben Steele and Lily Jenkins for I Saw A Zombie Eat Santa Claus,
which was shot in Cheriton and Dover during the winter of 2009; and Voice of the People by French radio producer Marjorie Van Halteren, which featured the voice talents of Dover residents. The Internet Viewers Award went to Astor
College A' Level student Bradley Evans' entry, Eliza. The awards, 'The Dover Oscars, were presented on the night by the mayor of Dover, Cllr Sue Jones.
Organiser of the festival, Mike McFarnell
said, " The Short Film contest is going from strength to strength, from the first year when we had just four entries, to last year when we had six, to this year when we doubled that with 12, four of them from students. This is an
opportunity for the Film Makers of the future to display their talents, and compete against professional film-makers, and we look forward to more entries for 2012. Check our website www.dover-film.com for further details on how to enter
next year's contest."
Copies of the 2010 Dover Film were made available for sale at the festival, as well as previous years' Dover Films, and can also be bought through the website or by contacting Mike McFarnell at 4 Harold
Street, Dover, Kent, CT16 1SF.
FULL RESULTS:
Best Overall
1st—Sweet Dreams Are Made of Cheese by Barry Leach
2nd—I Saw A Zombie Eat Santa by Lily Jenkins and Ben Steele
Jt 3rd—Children of Vietnam by Lucy
Shepherd
Jt 3rd—Bag Job by Chloe Marshall, Lily Jenkins and Ben Steele
Highly Commended—The Few by Colin Baggott
Commended— Education by Lucy Shepherd
Best Fictional
1st—Sweet Dreams Are Made of Cheese by Barry
Leach
2nd—I Saw a Zombie Eat Santa by Lily Jenkins and Ben Steele
3rd—Bag Job Chloe Marshall, Lily Jenkins and Ben Steele
Highly Commended— Education by Lucy Shepherd
Highly Commended—Eliza by Bradley Evans
Commended—The
Weekend Hostage by Roger and Diane Barker
Best Documentary
1st—Children of Vietnam by Lucy Shepherd
2nd—Voice of the People by Marjorie van Halteren
3rd—De Lesseps Flight by Eric
Montague
Highly Commended—The Few by Colin Baggott
Highly Commended—Discover Folkestone by Colin Baggott
Commended—Dover Regatta by Helicopter by Colin Baggott
Best Student Film
1st—Sweet Dreams Are Made of Cheese by
Barry Leach
2nd—I Saw a Zombie Eat Santa by Lily Jenkins and Ben Steele
3rd—Bag Job Chloe Marshall, Lily Jenkins and Ben Steele
Highly Commended—Eliza by Bradley Evans
Internet Viewers Choice Award
1st—Eliza by
Bradley Evans
2nd—I Saw a Zombie Eat Santa by Lily Jenkins and Ben Steele
3rd—The Weekend Hostage by Roger and Diane Barker
Public Choice Award
1st—I Saw a Zombie Eat Santa (Fictional) and Voice of the People
(Documentary)
2nd—Sweet Dreams are Made of Cheese (Fictional) and Children of Vietnam (Documentary)
3rd—Bag Job (Fictional) and The Few (Documentary)
Judges Choice Award
1st—Sweet Dreams are Made of Cheese (Fictional)
and Children of Vietnam (Documentary)
2nd—Bag Job (Fictional) and De Lesseps Flight (Documentary)
Jt 3rd—The Weekend Hostage (Fictional) and The Few (Documentary)
Jt 3rd—I Saw a Zombie Eat Santa (Fictional) and Voice of the
People (Documentary)
Ends
* *
Pictures are of course the glamourous actress Karol Steele top and bottom..with local movie legend and organiser Mike McFarlane in between.
- good to see we have so much talent locally, congrats to all who took part and the organisers, of course.
- paulb
i think your right, is it realy now time to call time on the DITZ to be fair it has had years.
lets at least put it to some use rather thanb as it as at
the moment - Why knock it on the head - the former MFI is on it's way down, various other bits have been demolished/purchased. Nothing much has happened on the site since
Burlington House went up so small steps are all positive - So the question is?
Without the private sector buying out County Hotel, Burlington House parade
nothing happens.
THAT'S THE REALITY BEFORE DEMOLITION & THOSE COSTS.
As for government money to do it , you are p-----g in the wind.
It's not there. And not there in particular for the South East.
The site
could be developed piecemeal easily but that does not solve the problem of Burlington House.
That could have been achieved a decade ago if that was the case.
The rest of the development pays for the Burlington House
issue.
As for Sea Change there was no choice about where & how the money was to be spent, it was defined by the government.
You either went for it or someone else got.
As the latest proposals for DTIZ emerge I think
many of you will be pleasantly surprised.
We can't release any details because they belong to the developer & their architect. A planning application or pre -plannning exhibition will reveal all.
I won't give you
timetables but believe it is moving well & is overcoming the obstacles of other bodies that can defeat planning applications.
Sue N & Roger together with Gordon C & Nigel are on the Working Party & have seen what is
proposed.
No politics here. We all want the same result. - never thought it was about politics paul, you had stated previously that you had
worked well with the late peter wells on the project.
many of us have written to hmrc about the burlington house issue and the fact that the owner is not paying business rates despite earning money from it.
agree about the
sea change money, try explaining that to the majority of the public. - Not sure if I qualify as the "next generation" (I'm 41!), as per PaulB's post, but I do
have an interest in seeing the town develop and believe it has great potential. I did get a University education and went off to work in London before my career brought me back to Dover.
I agree with PaulB that we are losing a
lot of talent due to the lack of employment opportunities. My own personal circumstances means that I may well be heading back to London to find work.
The town has some good plans for housing, etc. which it needs if we are to
attract developers and the larger retailers - at present, the population of Dover is probably too small to attract department stores, cinemas, etc. It's a bit of chicken-and-egg situation, but there does need to be a concerted effort
to attract new employers, and that could be an area where central government could help. One can only hope that the withdrawal of Pfizer focuses more attention on East Kent. - Britains in Libya.
Government Ministers have been fast to impose cuts to services to the general public.
Government Ministers have been particularly
slow/late to respond to expatriate Britains from war torn Libya.
The Prime Minister is out of the counry selling arms to the middle east.
The Deputy Prime Minister is skiing in Davos forgeting he was supposed to be in ``Charge`` of
country affairs
The Foreign Secretary was late to respond to expatriate Britains from Libya and had to make a grovelling apology for ``Dithering``
The Defence Secretary was in the Pub with his special advisor.
The Culture
Secretary leaked an SAS rescue plan prior to its launch.
The Royal Navy in the name of HMS Cumberland rescued some Britains but when it returns to the UK it will be scrapped.Cuts?
The French,Turkish,Russian and Polish Governments
rescued their people - I believe we NEED the DTIZ area developed, not just grassed over.
For employment purposes, for business purposes and for tourism
purposes, but perhaps most of all, because the people of Dover deserve it.
We can't give up on it, everything is out of our hands now, but all the background work is in place.
Roger
- Ah now Roger saying it would just be "grassed over" is a tepid way of putting it. Gary delightfully put it in a post below re the joys of a blade of grass in summer...ours
could be a gorgeously contoured park with rolling aspect. With a pond, with even a restaurant. I wont ask for extravagances like a fountain. This would be to the benefit of all..tourists of course, put particularly people living here.
Lets not forget the people living here who endure this delapidation on a daily basis and have now almost given up the hope of seeing anything new and good. They are almost defeated, forced to accept grot as the norm.
PaulW
somebody must have lobbied and lobbied well the Sea-Change people for these monies spent on Dover recently. The guy in Whitehall with his hand on the purse strings didnt just wake up one day in a biblical moment and say..
"I know,
I'll give the money to Dover Seafront..!"
He was lobbied by..well I guess it was EH for the Castle and DHB for the seafront. It can work if you have a genuine honest to God
case. - Roger, I think "just grassed over" would be better than the present eyesore, with developement later.
Re Libya, could do better and better late
than never. - Yes the Libya situation was and is a shambles. I think Reg has it right there sad to say. I get the feeling David Cameron is something of a one man government, he
himself seems to be the right PM calibre...but he keeps having to apologise for the cock-ups of his ministerial colleagues.
The latest cock up at large is William Hague....these guys spent a lifetime in opposition where the going
is easy...knock everything the government does is the rule, but when you get round to doing it yourself its not quite so easy. - It can't be grassed over without
MILLIONS ££££ spent on it !!! - You are so right Paul aka....
People just do not realise the true cost of these things and, as I said earlier, if there were
£millions to knock down buildings and prepare the land and grass it over then would that money not be better spent on de-risking the site for commercial development to make it more viable and therefore marketable. - Reg
nice to see you and wendy the other day.
with regard to your posting i have been saying this for some time that the cobbled together govt have so many issues
that they are at logger heads with. And now as you say Reg, poor old D.C. is having to apologise for his ministers mistakes every day .
without doubt they are a govt in dissaray, no direction, torn apart.
im glad Reg
that you to have spotted it
join the millions waiting for the gen election, for many it cant come too soon. - barry
can you explain what de-risking means in lay
persons terms please? - De-risking must be removing the risks that will prevent development such as awkward demolitions (asbestos), pre-emptive archaeological works
and ensuring all required land is purcahsed in advance, so that someone can just come in and start work there... - Barry.
You are right, I do not know what the
costing would be and I do not know which would benefit Dover more. It seems there are two options being spoke of.
In simple terms (1) Business area (2) Park area.
Personally I would go for Park, I think this would be good for
Locals and even better for Tourism, I don’t want to slag Dover off but it does need something to make it more attractive to tourists and more business would not fit that bill.
As for raising the cash, If Mr Elphicke can raise£200
million to buy the Port; someone should be able to raise enough for this Park, if that is what the people of Dover want?
- thanks for info paul, sounds like another invented
word.
recently i have heard people on news 24 and sky news use "undistinguished", "inacceptable" and many more like it. - Reg is entirely right.
Just
think - a unitary East Kent Council could have its own aircraft carrier and Harrier jets, would have been into Libya and out with the expats before Gaddafi took his shades off... - There'll be a return on the Port Gary, but not on demolition and grass/park.
Nothing happens without money, especially on this scale, so support real regeneration in Dover, making real improvements for everyone -
residents and visitors.
Shopping is a leisure activities and shopping brings wealth; sitting on a park-bench doesn't, but combine the two and you have it.
Roger - Gary - a park is not a commercial proposition that will attract an investor, unlike the port.
I, personally would prefer to see an improved shopping centre with all the jobs and facilities it would provide rather than a
park. De-risking the site and in so doing reducing the development costs would make the site more commericaly viable and therefore there would be a better chance of getting what Dover needs, maybe even some leisure facilities
too. - As I said, I am looking at this from a tourist & leisure point of view. Thousands of potential visitors pass through Dover every year, with most taking no notice
or interest in stopping or coming back. Tourists bring in revenue.
Plonk a Azda on the site will have no effect on these potential visitors, an attractive park with lots of things going on in that park, I believe would have an effect.
I agree with Roger, combine the two and there you have it.
- the government have enough in their coffers to finance the parkland idea.
they have paid out £20 million in
redundancy payments to quango staff do far with much more to come.
people will be brought in to cover their work anyway, it has been shown that scrapping the quangos will save a tiny fraction of the money previously spent on
them. - to the editorial team
when are you going to be open to public opion rather that the blinkered view of the former mayor (jan tranter) and her gang
- Roger, if visitors stopped over on a green park, they could wander a little further inland and find all the shops Dover has, so the two would be combined.
One
example: Coop is just next to DTIZ. Take twenty steps westwards as the crow calls, and there is Market Square, and if it is a Saturday, even a thriving market!
Walk along, and the road is bustling with coffee-shops, shops of many
kinds, Marks&Sparks, and, walking the Dour for a while from Pencester, one gets to Morison, Netto, Frozen Foods, Iceland and a whole display of other shops.
Isn't that enough? - No, Alexander it isn't.
The Co-op (the most expensive supermarket in Dover), is not "just next" to the DTIZ; the market has never been "thriving".
Those shops you
mention by name are not tourism type of shops (well M & S maybe) and until people stop throwing rubbish in the river, why should we direct people/visitors to look at it ?
DTIZ will be good for Dover:
For employment
For
choice of retail outlet
For wealth creation
For our reputation
For restoring Pride in Dover
For increasing our tourism numbers
For our historic sites, Museums and attractions
Any others ?
Roger - Roger
But how long will it be before your 'field of dreams' becomes a reality? - Howard - that really is a dreamworld that you have there where the government, with its massive deficit, will just step in and say to Dover, here is a few £million, go build a park. The real world is not like that and such
dreaming will not get us anywhere or add anything to the debate. - Mike from Buckland.
We are always happy to hear views from all.
Let us know who you are if you
have a complaint.
Send me an email if you wish. - Good morning each.
We were talking earlier in the week of the rather run-down and neglected aspect of Dover
that might be detrimental to the overall enjoyment of travellers that have Dover on their holiday route.
I did ask a friend of mine from Lancashire who has been and is a regular visitor to your town for his comments and he has
obliged me.
"...as it is the precursor to our holiday we are always excited to be there..."
He and his family over the years have gone from enjoying the cliffs and the castle as attractions, when his children were young
to dining out and B&B-ing and he has not a bad word to say. Perhaps because he lives in Britain, as we all do, he knows well that there are dilapidations all over the country. Why should Dover be any different? I had given him ample
opportunity to moan and carp and of moaning there was none. He has always found the good people of the town welcoming and friendly. I trust that his words that I quote above serve both as a thank you and encouragement. He and his family
shall be back in July.
Keep up the good work, I say. - Roger, I know that more shops in Dover would mean more council tax for DDC, but what you mean by
Dover's shops 'not being tourism type shops', goes beyond any comprehension I can try to think of!
So, Dover's coffee-shops and restaurants and dining places are not adapt for tourism! The tourist information centre and museum
and a host of other shops selling ornaments, jewellery and clothes and food are not suitable for tourism!
Dover's Supermarkets are not suitable for tourism!
COOP is not just next to DTIZ! Whatever next! Crossing the road from
COOP one enters DTIZ! The area starts at the other end of Dolphin Passage, which is about twenty paces long.
It seems pretty obvious that any DTIZ expansion for attracting visitors, in your view, is not meant to benefit Dover's
existing commercial outlets (deemed unsuitable), and frankly I can't see you getting any support from them either in a DTIZ project to build some sort of shopping centre that would attract visitors on the grounds that Dover's exisiting
shops are not suitable for them.
Until now I had thought the idea was to attract visitors to Dover to benefit the shops here, not to shun them!
- alex
shops and businesses do not pay council tax, they pay business rate to the government who send a small part back to us. - MIKE(Buckland)
I
seem to recall your anti labour posts in the past and that's fine, but believe me although jan tranter posts from time to time, im unsure who ytou feel her gang are?
The forum is made up of many individuals from all political and
non political backgrounds, like yourself, the forum front page is open to all, no matter who you are.
And then of course theres the members section which i'm sure as a regular contributor you would be welcome to join.
we may
not agree, but debate is a healthy thing.
- In answer to Tom Austins posting that no-one has commented on - may I say thank you for that Tom. I find it amazing that
with all this criticism of our town on here, when someone compliments us it goes by uncommented on - so easy to be negative!!
You see for every person who remarks on the negative, there are probably several who see the positives.
Let's leave all the petty politics out of it and just appreciate the beautiful town we live in. - I was in the Medway area yesterday and saw our lovely Pride of Dover in at
Tilbury. Unfortunately the weather was really bad and I couldn't get a decent photo but it was nice to see the old lady, yet sad too. - I have heard the Dover Town Centre
called many things and beautiful was not one of them. - Well I wouldn't expect you to agree with me Vic, you never do!. It's people like you who get on my nerves by
constantly knocking Dover. It IS a beautiful town, and surrounding areas too. For someone who professes to love the town you really don't give that impression at all.
My mother always said that if you can't say anything nice, don't
say anything at all - you could learn from that. - I have just read Paul Watkins posting for 24th Feb. What a very upbeat, positive and informative post - thank you Paul.
Why oh why can't some of you give the man credit for being open and honest and be happy that things are moving? All these doom and gloom merchants are doing nothing for the town, except put people off coming.
- There are parts of the town centre I do like,the town hall is very good inside and out but when you go around the back of it,what amess.Town council Office is again very
good,The Riverside Which I di use is very good and the staff are to. But over all it could be alot betterand cleaner but other seaside towns are not that good to.
But it is Dover for mywife and me all the time. - Quite sad really when you have places like the Western Height, Castle, Kearsney, some lovely buildings, clifftop walks, Samphire Hoe, countryside on your doorstep, Roman
Painted House, Crabble Mill and more history than you can shake a stick at !!!!!! - It is because of my feeling about Dover why I keep on about it .I try and help
in my own way,but I have no wish to put all that on The Dover Forum many do alot more then me. And you was on about the Town not the district.We know that around Dover is very good. - I think its fair to say that we all want a better Dover but some go about it differently. It is good to highlight the plus points but equally so we must also talk about the
downsides in an effort to bring about improvement and change ..ie the delapidation along Townwall St for example. These things have to be highlighted.
Talking about tourists ..the Townwall St ugliness is what millions of 'em see
when they pass through Dover every summer. Thats Townwall St talking the town down isnt it..without making a sound it speaks volumes.
There are travel brochure type websites Im sure where just the highlights are shown...thats a
different thing though...a different remit. - Paul, I agree completely with you about Townwall Street if only the tourists could go along the seafront they would
get such a different impression of the town.
Along with Jacqui I am suprised nobody has commented on Tom's very positive posting. Thankyou Tom for starting a rather gloomy Monday morning off so well. - You can and should talk about the good things in Dover; you should be positive, not negative about Dover.
Paul aka is right to point out those places, Tom’s right to inform the
forum that his visitors love Dover.
Forget politics, this is about working together to make Dover/Deal a better place for us and for visitors.
Like it or not. PaulB is completely right. Townwall St is ugly; in fact, it is a
disgrace.
Thats not being negative, its stating a fact that needs addressing. Whether it’s new business or a new Park, something has to be done to reverse this issue.
Tom’s relatives love Dover because they have been shown
around and seen all the positives that Paul aka has talked about but thousands of visitors only see Townwall St and do not want to come back for a second look. There is nothing from either direction that attracts or says, come back and
visit us.
PaulW makes it sound that plans are being drawn up. Leaving politics aside and disapointments from the past, let’s hope these new plans will be good for Dover/Deal and deserve to be backed by
everyone.
- Surely Townhall St isin all intentions and purpose a bypass .Most towns have them .Many years ago i used to visit the West Country and pass through some
delightful Towns and Villages now its the quickest route from A to B .
My own home town now has a By Pass and if you are a visitor to that delightful part of North Essex you donot see the Tudor frame and colour washed buildings
We
could always demolish the Gateway flats which obscure the view of the sea front .
Its still a lovely view coming into Dover from all directions ,because you see the Castle .The surrounding hills block the views of the town .Travelling
down Catle Hill or Waterworks Hill you get a marvellous view of the town .
My son and I were discussing this yesterday .Some people just want shops which are in every Town Dover no longer caters for anyone who just wants to browse
.Deal and Sandwich have these qualities . . - Of course I should have added today people want instant everything .Get from A to B as quickly as possibe ,mobile phones no
interaction with people . - Good morning each and thank you.
"If you've got it flaunt it."
Why trouble yourselves over the matter of returning visitors when
you have a steady stream, nay, a constant stream of passers-by.
I am not much of a holiday person, but I suspect that more important to the traveller than money/cost is timing.
The one thing each and every traveller has on their
mind is that they cannot be late. Cannot be late getting to Dover, that is. This single fact must afford Dover a tremendous opportunity. Sure we would all like to see that our civic pride is reflected in the overall condition of our
home-town and reflected in a positive way, but as I mentioned when talking of my friend's visits over the years, we all know, deep down, that what is painted will require repainting at intervals. This is a matter rightly for locals. Let
us get back to the visitor.
The well organised traveller will have time to spare and money to spend (after all their holiday begins at Dover). The disorganised traveller too would have to grin and bear it. Plainly the welcome is
there, the B&Bs are there, the restaurants too. One could go on and on, but to end...
The picture here last week of the overgrown gap in the street scene. What if a palm tree or two in planter-pots were set in the gap? Try to turn
those inevitable 'blots-on-the-landscape' into features.
Dover as with the rest of the country does not have much money to splash around, but a little spent wisely...You can but try. - Good idea, Tom. Some green trees, bushes and flowers fit in the picture of the Garden of England. It makes a wonderful difference.
Sue, your idea is interesting. To have a plan to
remove the Gateway flats could work if, and only if, the residents who live there agree.
In this case, one could talk about building hundreds of new houses in green areas of Dover (whithfield as one example), as they would be
destined for local people of Dover, replacing the Gateway flats; however, if the local people of any proposed village also agreed to this.
Once again, with the conditional if, and only through true public consultatioon where the
concerned people have their say before any plans are sealed and NOT after, and NOT 'whether they like it or not', which is what we have seen in the Whitfield-Deal urbanisation plans to build houses NOT destined for local
people.
In fact I ask myself where future generations of Dover should one day expand to if our green areas are built on now to attract new people.
We can see from your idea about the Gateway flats that Dover already might
need some green areas to build on in order to replace even just one existing residential area.
I can imagine that it must be wonderful to have the sea-view on one side, but awful to have the port traffic streaming by on the other.
- This is the selection of the minutes immediately below from Castle Forum on Policing...see headlines above.
* *
Graham Hatfield and Louise Delamare from Kent Police gave a short presentation on the proposed reorganisation of Kent Police, rolling out over 4 years. There needs to be saving of £50m and it is expected that 500
police officer posts and 1000 police support staff posts will be lost. Much of this will be from natural wastage.
The Community Policing will be built up, as requested by the public. There are approx. 800 Community PCs and PCSOs
and this will rise to 1200. The Community Safety Partnerships work will also be expanded.
The Emergency Response Units will run along the same lines as the Ambulance Service, with units coming from the nearest location wherever
that may be within Kent, rather than units covering only their own patch.
Kent Police and Essex Police are already working in co-operation thus saving money and management costs where this is appropriate. (Dog teams, helicopters
etc ?) Kent will be divided into 3 separate areas for easier managing. These are SE with Dover, Shepway, Ashford, thanet and Canterbury. West with Sevenoaks, Tonbridge, Maidstone and Tunbridge Wells and North with Dartford, Gravesham,
Medway and Swale.
The team were asked some questions :-
1.Would smaller police stations remain open ? Most, such as Dover, will be Community Police Centres with Emergency Response coming from
Folkestone.
2.Will distant phone operators understand where the public means when they call in using local street names ? Yes and they will be aided by helped by high tech systems.
3.Police ops often seem to want to know more
about you than about the problem you are calling about? Actually they will have already arranged for an emergency response, but will need your details too, especially if you are a witness. It is also for your own safety.
4. There is
to be a 24-hour Street Pastor scheme, will the police continue to support this scheme ? Yes, working with the Community is a priority.
5. What numbers of police officers actually on the ground are envisaged.
This is difficult to
tell, as it depends on peak times in each area, so obviously there would be less numbers at night or at quiet times.
6. Will policing continue to be effective considering every criminal has a whole raft of ‘human rights’ ? Hopefully
this will gradually change to balance victims rights.
7. We understand that numbers of all ranks will be changing, how?
Changes will effect the service across the board, including Assistant Ch. Constables.
Nigel Collor
praised the work of the PCSOs and the Community PCs and welcomed their increasing powers which still fall short of being able to arrest someone causing trouble.
Pictures: Top pic shows Graham Hatfield of Kent Police. Second pic
shows PCSO Jacqui Brooks, PC Paul Tutthill pictured with Cllr Nigel Collor. - interesting report from the castle forum, just a couple of points here, issue 3) why
do they not tell you that a car is on the way before asking the long list of questions? it would stop the caller getting wound up. the answer to issue 6) is hardly encouraging.
at the bottom there nigel mentions new powers going
to p.c.s.o's an community officers, do we know what they are? - We on Buckland have been told through the Buckland Together Partnership that our PCSO and our now
dedicated PC Mark Ellul, who also covers St Rads will work with us the community in a greater roll to help keep crime down and make residents feel safe within the community.
And this is something that hopefully will happen across most
of our district. - As BarryW recently pointed out in response to my posting regarding police cuts that front line services will not be affected and most staff
reductions will be absorbed by natural wastage. Obviously a bit of wastage and previous over staffing has been found within the KCC force.So all the local bobbies will be around for years to come.........I think
not! - Hi,Jacqui-welcome back,you've been missed.
- The posts on the
Peoples Port Referendum are deeply disturbing.
The Meeting, as I understand it, is simply the first step in the option for the people of Dover to be part of a Peoples Port in the Privatisation of DHB.
It is the question -
do you want a referendum, as is your democratic right, on this issue?
Yet some people on the posts are saying that they do not even want that democratic right to be allowed in this process, one a potential councillor and the UKIP
chairman.
The rights and wrongs of privatisation are not what Thursday is about,
Thursday is about the democratic right to have a referendum on a key local issue.
I for one want my rights to vote and will not be swayed
by ill informed, highly opinionated people who want to take away my rights because they don’t agree with the cause. - Graham, the Port of Dover has not been privatised
by DHB! It is a State asset, and the Secretary of State for Transport is to make a decision on the DHB proposal for privatisation, also in view of the representations that have been made.
Charlie's prot project popped up
later! - Once again the nay sayers choose not to read what others have written.
Alexander you do yourself no credit with your post, please do not be so condescending
as to assume that I know less than you.
As the conclusion of achieving my Masters Degree my dissertation was on an aspect of the privatisation of British Rail. So I have a little understaning of the issues.
If you cannot
understand this simple process proposed by the Peoples Port how can you expect others to give credibility to your opinion.
Finally Charlie is not the Peoples Port. Mr Elphicke is a key supporter and the Parliamentary champion of
the Peoples Port. - Re Policing Levels : Marek there was a talking head expert on TV the other day saying that we have to decide exactly what we mean by frontline. I
didnt know whether to die laughing or spit. He gave us a load of baloney on semantics. Is backroom frontline ?? is backup staff frontline or backroom?? Are detectives trying to solve crime in the backroom frontline ?? or indeed are
computer operators typists etc frontline or backroom ?? or are they disposable.
This guy was a Conservative, spinning like mad to save face re the manifesto promises. But just look at the reality from the Castle Forum minutes
below and the headlines above. Its not what the people want is it? less Police on the streets..I dont thinkso.
Oh dear..am I frontline staff or indeed am I disposable..oh
dear! - I haven't assumed you know less than me, Graham, and as for the 'people's port', it does not exist!
Dover Port is a State-asset.
If local people
want to change this status, than there is a motion that can be voted on in the Town-Hall in a few days time.
To vote in favour of a referendum on Charlie's plans, would mean voting for a referendum to end the status of Dover
Port as a State asset.
Whoever wants to risk such an enterprise for a port-trust that exists only in name and has not been established by Parliament, just has to go to the Town Hall on that day to vote on the
motion. - Alexander I will not debate this with you further as you cannot even agree with yourself.
Line one you say there is no peoples port & yet in your final para
you say it exists in name only. It is in fact an organisation that has a well constucted proposal. So much so that the government ( Much greater minds than yours) acknowledges its credibility by considering it.
The mid section of
your post simply violently agrees with my right to vote, which is all I want. - Mr Morris The wording on the Petition is not what you are saying ,UKIP and myself are
behind having local referendum on the sell of the port.With all the options on it.
(1) the sell of the port by the DHB.
(2)The peoples Port.
(3) Staying a Royal Charter Port. This is one we go for.
But on the Petition
To the Town Council. is
In accordance with Schedule 12 of the Local Goverment Act 1972 we,being parishioners of Dover Town,hereby request the council to convene a Parish Meeting to consider a motion to call a referendum to support
the transfer of Dover Port and Harbour to the Dover peoples port Trust Limited,
So by that wording if you are not in a town ward you can not vote. it is not a full referendum as I said anyway .
And never will the port be
apeople port,they are just saying that in the hope it will pull in votes.
If I have got it right after reading it ,it also tells you that the Dover Public can only have one share each at the cost of £10,no way are any of the public
that buy shares going to have a say in how the port is run.A ll it means one or two might sit on the bord without voting rights. - to me the issue of what is frontline is
quite simple, visible policing.
this is irrespective of whether they are police officers, community officers, p.c.s.o's or specials.
if they continue to spend most of their time filling in forms down the station then they
are not front line. - Graham, I have not violently agreed or disagreed with your right to vote, nor questioned it, not having reverted to violent anything!
Without comparing whether your mind is greater than other people's minds, the people's port does not exist, and the people's port trust Ltd is only a piece of paper without any parliamentary constitution.
If you want to
vote on a motion for a referendum to put Dover Port in a huge debit situation, then the location of theTown Hall is no-doubt known to you.
- As I understand it,
willing to be corrected, this meeting and vote on a possible future referendum only apply to the views of residents of Dover Town wards, whereas the Peoples Port Trust aims to be open to anyone from Dover DISTRICT.
So presumably
it is open to all the other parishes to have their own meetings and referendum if they so wish.
There is a little bit of confusion as to attendance at the meeting as the notice says members of the public and press are invited to
attend. Perhaps one of the town councillors who post on here could tell us if by "the public" that means only residents of Dover wards, or is anyone from outside welcome to attend to observe only and not contribute or vote (I think you
might guess who I'm thinking of here). - Chris has stated quite clearly only those on the electoral register for the Dover Town Wards can vote .There is no
reason why a petition could not be presented to DDC .Ray is correct we could all call for a future referendom in our own Parish
Some people donot understand the difference between Town,Parish and District / - Hi Steve, thanks for that x Don't think anyone else has missed me though lol xx
- Just a welcome back to colin as I'm not a
member anymore - hope you continue to get better mate and look forward to seeing more of your lovely photos xx - I have already put this in my post,but I will still be going
along to have my say.It is still a public meeting. - Amazing what you can witness just by being in the right place at the right time. We stopped in the carpark at
Western Heights earlier to have a coffee. While there we spent ages watching two magpies and two seagulls fighting for tit bit rights! Fascinating stuff - and no-one won, they all just flew off together in the end lol Wish I'd had my
camera with me but alas I didn't. - Chris Precious has answered my query about attending on the thread on the forum page.
There will be an area set aside for Press and
members of the public from outside the Dover ward areas who will be able to observe only, have no right to speak or vote. - We will see on that one.
- You know what the man says he never gets thrown out or removed from a meeting .Stealth is a good word .
- Mr
Matcham thank you for your post.
I am fully aware of the detail of the proposal & all I want is the right to vote on something that is presented to me as a resident of Dover Town. The fact that it is for those on the electoral
role of Dover is part of the proposal and if others wish to propose or do something different then they should do the work as the Peoples Port people have done and present their case accordingly.
Unfortunately, rather than do any
work to support any case they may have, people have instead chosen to whinge about the peoples port and do nothing. Instead they are choosing to attempt to derail a democratic process that the Peoples Port organisation are
following.
Hence my original post regarding others denying me my democratic right to vote .
Alexander as I said before I will not debate this with you further as you have shown such a naïve understanding of big business,
privatisation and funding issues. Additionally I do not believe providing you with any factual information would affect your “opinion”. - Mr Morris. Very well put,and
thank you for avery good post,Why not think about joining up on the Dover forum? - Graham, during and before the General Election campaign, Mr. Charlie Elphicke
camapaigned in no uncertain terms against the privatisation of Dover Port, stating he considers it should remain a State asset. This he did after the DHB presented their privatisation proposal.
You say I have such a naive
understanding on this issue, but I still have the pamphlet on which it is written. This is not a question of opinion; it's a fact that Charlie did a U-turn. - Just a quick
question as I am a completely perplexed by the whole "Peoples Port" idea, but considering Charlie Elphicke has given it precedence in his position of MP to the determent of other issues that affect his constituents shouldn’t all Dover
and Deal constituents have a vote? - Alexander, I have lots of bits of paper with things printed on them as well.
They also have
nothing to do with my right to vote on a democratic referendum.
Politicians doing U-turns, never heard of that before! But people normally say that when they don't understand the issues in the first place. As I said
naive. - hs deal
every town and parish council in the district can call for a referendum, so far only dover town has to my konwledge - Howard
Charlie Elphicke has suggested to the BBC that the referendum is to be enacted by the Dover People's Port Trust (DPPT).
The DPPT literature says
"Anyone can donate to help our cause and everyone will be welcome to invest in our project. Anyone living in the Dover District will be able to become a member and have a stake in the future of our
community." - hsdeal., please be advised that Charlie's port trust Ltd is a private affair, it is not a constitutional body deriving
from an Act of Parliament. Making donations to it does not and cannot entitle anyone to have a say in the issue of Dover Port.
That what DTC are doing with the upcoming motion is completely different, as it concerns a petition
that was made asking for a referendum, thus DTC will have a vote in Dover Town Hall on the motion whether to have a referendum in the area in which DTC administration applies, which is Dover Town with its town wards.
Charlie's
private people's port has no authority to enact any public referendum anywhere! - the whole issue is getting rather blurred.
i realise that it is a proponent of the
charlie port that has called the meeting, i thought he had done it as a concerned citizen though.
hs deal you would have more credibility if you had a name rather than a pseudonym. your posts are always interesting and you would
get more replies.
Alexander,
Can you confirm that Charlie or anyone speaking on behalf of The Dover Peoples Port Trust Ltd did not tell the media
that they planned to enact rarely used powers to force a referendum?
Howard,
I appreciate not using a name discredits me and Charlie has brought this to my attention but using my blog address helps promote my site and tries
to focus people on the issue it promotes and not on a individual.- hs.deal, actually this is the first time I read about it, and I'm in
no position to answer yes or no. The reason why I put my last post here, in reply to you, is because if it were so, that the p/p stated they could enact a referendum, it would be an undue statement on their part.
What is possible,
is that they could ask for a referendum, as they seem to have done in Dover, by collecting a minimum of signatures in the form of a petition, hence the upcoming motion to vote if there should be such a referendum in Dover to approve or
disapprove Charlie's p/p plan.
The only other possibility for a local referendum - if I am not mistaken that is - would be for the Government, or at least a designated and competent ministry thereof, to have a referendum held on
a particular issue.
The whole fact is though, that Charlie has hi-jacked the process of public consultation on the DHB privatisation plan. It would make sense to have a referendum on that, or even better, to have a referendum on
any proposal that the Government should make after viewing the representations that have been sent in to the Secretary of State for Transport.
This process is still on-going, the Secretary of State must make a decision one day. I
believe the p/p offer of Charlie & Co Ltd to Gov. expired in December last year, hence by all rights it should be defunct.
I'll look in on your blog later this evening. - As a point of clarification there has been no “hi-jacking” of the DHB privatisation consultation process by anyone.
As part of a public consultation process challenges are allowed that can be alternative proposals.
These alternate proposals must be deemed as realistic by the managing authority and if so become part of the consultation process, this is normally provided the submission meets a given deadline.
The managing authority is normally
empowered to be flexible on deadlines if it is truly in the public interest.
The Peoples Port proposals meets these criteria and are now part of the consultation process.
This description is based upon my experience over
the last 7 years as the Lead Engineer in 2 Public Inquiries and part of the senior design team for HS1.
The referendum is to confirm whether the Dover Town electorate want to become stakeholders in the alternative proposal, that
option is not open to them with the DHB proposal so a referendum is not appropriate.
I’m sure that Peter Garstin will correct me if I have this last bit wrong.
As a consequence there are 2 options currently under consideration
for privatising the Port of Dover. The so called third option is maintain the status quo. This is not an option in the true sense as it is the default situation should the other 2 options be unacceptable to Government.
The rights
and wrongs of the privatisation policy is another issue and not part of this consultation process.
Sorry this is so long but I thought facts might be useful in any debate. - Graham , I believe the DHB proposal could have gone thru. the same Parish Poll process [not a referendum] had any six electorate requisitioned it & the public meeting etc.
been dealt with.
It would have carried weight within the consultation phase & may have had more authority than the petition process. i.e. turnout, result etc representing a true result of public interest & feeling.
Of
course the cost as with this one would have to be borne by the Town/Parish Council. - Thank you Paul. I am not competent to comment on your point
but with your experience I accept the same Parish Poll process may have been followed, but without the referendum, regarding the DHB proposal.
DHB would of course say that their own consultation process was extensive and the
results were biased, based on a small parish/town as opposed to district view. But thats just playing devils advocate. - Further to the headline above about cuts in
police numbers..also see the report further down the page re the police talk at Castle Forum..the Home Secretary Therese May has just announced a matter of minutes ago that police officers, apart from cuts in their numbers, are now also
likely to face cuts to their wages.
That is very bad news on top of everything else. Police morale must be at an all time low.
Amazing times. Once upon a time the Conservatives were the party of Law and Order. How can they
deliver Law and Order now on anything like a proper scale. Cuts in numbers, cuts in wages, where will it all end?
It looks like the Police are the victims of criminal activety! As this treatment of the police is surely criminal
and of course it impacts on all of us. - the home secretary seems to have back tracked on everything to do with policing.
if she kept her word on the subject
of police form filling, we then might see more on the streets. - Graham, we may be playing with words but the process currently being discussed & the subject of the
meeting at Dover Town Hall is a Parish Poll not a referendum.
What happens after the Poll is the interesting one.
What do the Town Council do then?
How do they respond to the public vote?
And given they are
in the period of local government purdah which places restrictions on candidates conduct & statements on candidates in official positions during elections periods it makes for interesting times. - and thats 500 coppers to many.
- Brian, are you saying you do not want more police and are quite happy with the level of
policing at present.
Are you really on the side of burglers, murderers, rapists and any other criminal activity you can think of. - jan
i read that as brian
saying that it is 500 too many to lose.
i can usually understand brian, he has been on here a long time - Taking a high overview my current understanding now
is that the poll on Thursday will decide if the Dover Town electorate support transfer of the Port of Dover to Dover Peoples Port Trust Ltd (DDPT). Anyone living in the Dover District would then be able to become a member of DDPT for
£10.
Charlie Elphicke is a Director of DDPT and is the registered owner of (www.peoplesport.org) which has been receiving cash donations which are not required to be disclosed as a declaration of interest and this is the blueprint
for the "Big Society". - I misunderstood I am so sorry. I thought it was an odd comment, silly me. (hangs head in shame)
- jan h,i was talking job losses,as a matter of fact we need 5000 more coppers.
- hsdeal, in fact no, on Thursday there
will not be a poll, but a motion, and votes will be cast within the Town Hall on whether there should be a referendum in Dover in favour or against the pp port trust of Charlie Elphicke.
If there are sufficient votes in favour of
a referendum, then there would be a referendum at a later date.
The outcome of a referendum either way would not be binding and would not introduce a pp port, as the Secretary of State for Transport must make a decision, also in view
of all the representations that have been made, and her decision would no-doubt be presented to Parliament.
The outcome of a referendum would be used to influence the decision of the Secretary of State.
Obviously everyone
with an idea on the Port of Dover tries to influence others with their idea, which is why there are different views and opinions.
Also a reason why at the Town Hall, people will be able to speak their opinion to those
present. - That is not true,I have the petition in front of me now and the wording is as follows
In accordance with Schedule 12part 3 of the Local Government act 1972
we being parishioners of Dover TOWN,HEREBY REQUEST the Council to convene a Parish Meeting to consider a motion to call a referendum to support the transfer of Dover Port and Harbour to the Dover People,s Port Trust Limited.
That is
the wording on top,just to add to that they only needed 6 parishioners of the Parish to sigh that Petition,which has already been done.
Now also under the petition it has note.
(1)This petition is NOT the referendum ballot
which will take place in some weeks time
(2) By signing this petition you are agreeing to Dover People,s Trust contacting you for support.
(3)This petition is being organised by Bob Markham.
And his address is on the
Petition.
I will tell you that Mr Markham is a Town Cllr.
I am not in agreement with the above myself. - What is not true, Vic? The first part of your post
corresponds to the first part of mine. - There were shock waves tonight at our Council meeting when the cost was advised .The Labour benches were clearly surprised..
- If you read your first part again then read again, what I wrote you will see they are not the same.Thank you .
- HSdeal.
Yes there will be a poll on thursday.
Without a poll of the peole attending there cannot be a vote on the proposal for a referendum.
Read the post by Mr Watkins, as a councillor he is competent to post on this
and his description is that it is a Parish (Town) Poll.
Alexander, Vic
Just to play devils advocate presumably Deal and Sandwich parishoners could use
the same local government act to call for their respective councils to motion a call for a referendum and also present their outcome to the Secretary of State for
Transport.- I will be at the meetng tonight if you see me and would like a chat please come over.
- SUE
I have no idea what you last post is about? - Sue can you expand on that a bit..re the shockwaves at last
nights council meeting? Sounds interesting but would be useful if we knew more. Why was it just Labour that was shocked!? - Mr HSDEAL. yes you are right,and at
the next Parish meeting I go to I will be saying just that,but there is a big cost to doing this,which the Dover Town council can meet,but that is not the same for a parish council the cost is about £3000 and that is alot of money and I
do not know if the cost is worth it at this time. - I have just checked re the cost .I did not want to give out incorrect information.An estimated cost is £15,000.This
will have to come out of the Town Councils budget .I assume the shockwaves were felt from the Labour side as the Town Council has a majority of Labour Councillors
This is like a mini election.There are several Polling stations to be
manned by two council officers .A hall has to be hired for the count .People to count the votes plus the printing of ballot papers Think of it as a Council election ... - A
complete waste of money in these time of savage cuts that are affecting the weakest in society, the decision will be made in Downing Street and nowhere else. If there is £15000 available to waste then please put it to good use
instead. - Vic, Martin, Sue
If it is going to cost that sum then no it is not worth it, my argument has always been that the Port of Dover's future has already been
given too much focus by our MP to the determent of far greater issues concerning his constituency which have been poorly represented.
Referring to recent posts regarding improving Dover, I would just like to give this input as a
rail commuter. The potential tourism and inward investment from the highspeed service is enormous and yet has been vastly underutilised. If some investment was put into installing ticket barriers at Dover Priory to deter anti social
behaviour in the station. An improvement of Southeastern staff customer skills and some shuttle bus services to Dover castle and town. This could pay huge dividends especially if backed by a leaflet and poster campaign at St Pancras
which incidentally is unveiling a huge inspiring Olympics logo in the station today.
- HSDeal.
I took your case to the Pfizer
Taskforce on Tuesday, having been lobbied by Julie Rook & your membership.
This was supported by both MP's.
It has been added to the Manston Parkway/HS upgrade bid. - The cost of £15,000 for a referendum, or poll, in Dover over the p/p plan, should today's motion at the Town Hall be in favour of one, is an enormous price to pay, considering that
the private p/p trust proposal expired in December without the Government, or 10 Downing St., accepting it.
If MP Charlie Elphicke made his proposal for a p/p trust to the Secretary of State for Transport, and then again to 10
Downing St., and it was not accepted by either, then this is a very high price to pay.
The Government is involved in reducing Britain's debt, and here we have an attempt to incur a 200 million-400 million pound debt on
Britain's most important commercial port: what a contradiction!
It is not surprising the plan was rejected in London! - Cllr Paul Watkins,
Thank you that is
appreciated, are you able to confirm that a Thanet parkway station would be served via a Dover HS extension rather than the Margate HS route and would the current franchise agreement allow this or would it be dependent on the new
Integrated Kent franchise.
- i think that the 15 grand could be better spent, i still do not see how the result of a local referendum
would affect the decision made by a secretary of state. - SUE
Obviously i cant speak for the labour town cllrs but i do know that when charlie contacted gordon
to get his support, gordon did ask for assurances that the finances stack up.
these are still not in place, so im unsure why the labour cllrs would be shocked.
If i were a labour town cllr now, i would sit back and watch
this backfire.
i'm sure there are many labour and alliance party cllrs very uneasy about this uncosted proposal - HS , I believe the Parkway bid & line issues are
an upgrade to the Canterbury line & are part of a Regional Growth Fund bid.
Deal, Sandwich form part of franchise model as I understand it. If that happens obviously that will be sooner than the RGF action.
The point is
it is "on the table".
Charlie will work away at his end & Julie will deal with KCC issues. - Keith ,
From the look on their faces the
Labour Councillors did not realise the cost implications .Im sure Gordon did his homework . - Its a shame that the new East Kent Access Road didn't take the railway line with
it to smooth the curve around Richborough and take the line closer to Manston. This would mean that Deal is on the High Speed Ramsgate-Manson-Deal-Charing X route... - I'm sure SUE the town cllrs(both parties) considered the cost
unfortunatly democracy does have a financial cost.
I have no idea what the feelings of the Dover towns folk is on this proposal or the idea behind a
referendum.
So maybe holding a public meeting is a way forward
Im not close to the details on either side or the many political games being played out, so for me its a judgement call, over the years you would have agreed to
many such consultations, feedback, etc type meetings and im sure the cost woulfd have been very high, but i don't recall your objecting - i would be very surprised if the
town's people turn out in force for the proposed referendum. - Cllr Paul Watkins,
If it is an upgrade to the Canterbury line then it will not be of any use
to Deal and Sandwich. The KCC Thanet parkway station proposal assumes that East Kent residents who do not have access to HS services are able to drive and park at the station. What is needed is localised access in Deal and Sandwich to HS
services for commuters, students, tourism and inward investment.
I appreciate the efforts of Charlie, Julie and yourself but this issue has been on KCC and the Dept of Transport's table for over a year. In reality the majority of
people currently requiring HS services from Deal and Sandwich are working in London and the existing 2 peak hour morning and evening services which already pass through could easily make additional stops. This requires negligible cost
to implement and would demonstrate to potential business investors into the Pfizer site that there is an initial commitment to HS services whilst a more comprehensive solution is
developed.
HS,
I believe it is the elements of your second paragraph which have been the basis of addition.
As a
Deal resident I have to travel to Dover regularly at peak times to acccess HS1, so appreciate your comments.
That appears to me to be the point of the plethora of emails over the past week.
You need that "in the bag" in
the first instance.- I agree with you Howard - there may be a few vocal people (naming no names) but I still believe that 99% of the people in the
district don't care either way. - Cllr Paul Watkins,
Thank you for the
clarification. - I only brought the cost of a referendem to this thread as information.I give it to the townsfolk of Dover to decide.No
politics just keeping people informed .I have just had a pleasant afternoon walking round my patch .
The Community Pay Back team have repainted a seat in Chilton Way the daffs are growing so all is well / - For those not able to make it to the People's Port meeting at the town hall tonight we will be covering it live throughout the evening at www dot thisiskent dot co dot uk
- Peoples Port referendum.
Following my previous posts on the forum I am glad to say that I was given the opportunity to vote on such an important issue. Three things struck me as
incredibly positive about the meeting.
The first was the cross party support that was present at the meeting, with both reds and blues totally aligned on the Peoples Port proposal and both saying it was the only current
opportunity to stop any future “real” privatisation of the Port.
A close second was the passion that Neil Wiggins showed for the proposal and the inclusion of many built in benefits for the Town. This was supported by a well
presented financial explanation by Nick Carmichael (of Evolution Securities) . Even to the point of why the Port is such an unusual asset for funding. Not techy but practically explained for the layperson.
The final positive was
the numbers of people that attended, bucking the normal apathy in Dover that has been ingrained as a result of years of failed promises on regeneration.
Despite a number of old wounds being opened by some questioners the vote was an
overwhelming yes to a referendum.
I’m not sure why any one can take a negative out of the meeting as the real vote will be the referendum. The huge positive that people must surely see from this that Dover will no longer be seen
as a backwater town. The press and news coverage alone will bring Dover to the fore across the country and be seen as a progressive informed Town.
- With DHB saying
that they can get over £400million for the port and the so called peoples port can only get £270million +and also saying they can gave the Town £50million the sums do not add up.But the D. H. B. will be saying after seeing that very
poor show"Well we have nothing to worry about ,and the sad thing is they are right. - Mr Matcham
If some one comes along and tells them their house is worth £250K say
and a professional estate agent/valuer comes along and tells you it is worth only £150K are you going to pay £250k for it?
Well that is what DHB are doing. What they say it’s worth and what investors would be willing to pay for it
are 2 different things. That’s what PP have done, valued it at the current rate. Just like house prices the ports value has dropped.
The answers were all in the responses or the panel said they could not answer, even if it was
after a little prevarication.
With regard to DHB if they get there way there proposal will see their Board Executive walking away with a combined bonus package much greater than what they will actually give Dover, as a result of
privatisation. So for them the more they can artificially inflate the price the better. That’s when you will see the Port asset stripped and rundown. - mr morris, it
might be an idea to liaise with mr boland on dover7@msn.com so that you could continue your social intercourse with mr matcham on a live basis? - Mr Morris ,I do
not want to see the port sold off to any one But you can take it from me that D,H,B, will have a buyer but they will not tell the public at this time. - Thanks Mr
McSweeney but Mr Matchams post suggests it is not necessary. I think the subject is closed. - Vic - if you listened properly you would have heard about the basis of the
valuation. The People's Port bid is calculated right at the upper end of the current market rate for Ports. Neil Wiggins has researched it and worked out Dover price on that basis. The finance man explained this further.
The
research was done regardless of any DHB hopes and was a current 'post crash' value. Pre-crash, as was said, the valuations were indeed double the current price. - The trend at the Port of Dover is for greater number of trucks over the forseeable future, whatever happens with Eurotunnel's pricing intitiatives.
Doing nothing with, and at, the Port, is not an option for Dover Town,
as well as the Port.
Whenever Teresa Villiers makes her decision first of all whether the Port Status should change and it be sold, then the next decision is who will buy it - DHB through a privatised sale, or the PP with their
mortgage (for want of another word) raising.
Who ever buys it, the expansion will still be necessary, if not today, then one of our tomorrows.
Roger - to be honest a cattle prod would have come in usefull for the town sargent last night.
- I think it worthwhile just taking little step back rather than letting
emotions take over on the port issue.
I think even VIC would support a people run port proposal one that would actualy be run and costed properly.
But it would be wrong for anyone to just run away with the idea that this
ride is going to be easy.
And we do need to keep a close eye on the DHB who also have idea's, we may not agree with them, but quite a few were present last night, and i'm sure at points they will have been happy at some of the
unanswered questions.
I'm a great believer in costed out, local run initiatives, but like paulb says, there is some confusion at times, and my worry is that the peoples port takes on and spends my money in a blinkered way and
gets it wrong.
I have to go along with the view from barryw, that at some point all the answers will come forward, not the best solution, but it appears at this point the only one.
As I say I'm not opposed to the peoples
port idea but i need the answers.
One small point i did get to town hall late but was unable to vote which i found a little strange but that was not realy important.
I also look to exchanges in the House of Parliament
where, when Charlie raised the port issue, the minister was unsure who even owned the port(and got it wrong) which doesn't bode well for the future.
Charlies assumption that if the coalition don't go with this idea that he will
hound them is not good enough for me, what was asked was do the tories support the peoples port proposal, charlie started by saying yes, then went on to say but if they dont,,,,,,,,
and that''s a lib dem reply lol.
So
lots more i'm sure to follow - Barry some money man you are ,the buyer will do his own valualion and that would have already been done by any buyer that the D.H.B. have in
the wings. All that happen last night you told them how much your bid will be and theirs will be much higher you have helped them, not stoped them so good bye to the port.
Just to add to your partys worrys at last night By-
Election. UKIP pushed the blues into 3rd place. LIM/DEM even lower than that and YES UKIP into second place,and you try to tell us that that the blues have got it right, the Reds will not let you forget this one,I am off tonignt to a
weekend meeting for UKIP and we will be very happy with what happened last night. - VIC
I presume by last night, you refer to the bye election result?
if so i have
given my observations as i said to you last night, unless you win a seat in MAY you won't be taken seriously.
And also as i said as youv stated its whitfield on District your standing i have no doubt you will split the vote, my
concern is you let the tories in lol - vic
the other question yiou asked on castle ward was last result
collor 476 votes
labour
233 - After last nights BY Election that will not happen, as we said going home last night,they could lose the District in May.
- Sounding like a complete old fogey: I would like to point out that from my experience the intangible benefits of a proposal, like the sale of the Port, carry almost as much
weight in any government decision as the hard cash tangible benefits.
The PP proposal has many intangible benefits, although as anyone experienced in this type of project will appreciate, they have not been fully
developed.
Throwing a potentially larger sum at the government by DHB shows how little experience they have in this type of thing.
It’s all about potential, the current HS rail route was very poorly engineered and costed
against the BR proposal. However, it’s potential to add to the development of the “East London Corridor” was huge. The rest is history.
Money is far from the only factor in this choice, hence the government not jumping too
quickly. - Vic - any buyer of the Port would have to raise his financing on the money markets in the same way the People's Port have to with the added burden of
satisfying shareholders. If they go higher than the market price they will have problems raising the cash. Neil Wiggins and the Finance people told you the basis of the valuation and how it compared with other market valuations for
recent Port sales. You, Vic, in post after post just demonstrate how little a grasp that you have of these matters. - Is the referendum going to be paid for by the
Dover District Council budget and will Deal and Sandwich council tax payers be allowed to vote? - Hi blogspot..
well an interesting
question. It came up at the meeting and as far as I understand things its only the people of Dover itself that will pay for it.. ie the Dover Town Council will pay for the referendum, but they have no choice once a referendum is called.
So its only the people in the ward areas of Dover that can vote.
Thats as I undertand it anyway.
Dover District Council dont pay for it...but and here's the thing...the whole district will benefit from the People's Port if it
goes ahead. A slight anomaly there. - It has been pointed out on here and on the thread on the main forum that this meeting was called under legislation relating
to the rights of residents of parish council wards (applies to town councils also).
So Deal, Sandwich and any of the rural parishes could have a meeting to call for their own poll which would be paid for from their own precepts -
which have probably already been set for next year with no allowance for this. - you are spot on there paulb.
but i suspect the town council(who put forward the mandate
to the minister)at the end are behind this referendum, as they were very much prepared last night and wasn't much dissent
so thats the first 15 grand
lets hope it has an effect and not
wasted - Keef just to add...that despite what the outcome of the vote might be...its not binding. HMG can still decide to jump one way or the other.
Once again thats as
I understand it anyway, the concept is a bit of minefield of avenues and tangents...even the panel members couldnt answer many of the questions.
Thanks for that
Ray. - PAULB
Your correct it's a minefield, you got it right, and as i'v said in other posts, DHB won't be sitting back they to will be planning, more so the
unanswered questiions last night.
I SAW the harbour officials going away from the town hall with a wry smile on there faces. - I am sure they would have had a smile on
their faces having been told in no uncertain terms they they are not up to the job of running the Port and that they have done nothing for Dover.
When told some home truths like that you have a choice, cry or smile through it, at
least they had the dignity to do the latter.... - The Town Council had a legal obligation to hold the meeting once it had been requested. That it went so smoothly that
Keith has to assume the council was fully prepared is high praise for all the hard work put in by the officers in setting it up.
Obviously many fine details can not be finalised in the proposal for the Peoples Port until such time
as the purchase is agreed. However, clear answers were given, to the extent they could be. Money for the town to be worked out with the Town Council and community groups, experienced managers to be kept while other board members etc.
position would be re-evaluated (no lynch-mob, name and shame mentality just practical business practice) and a clear valuation of the port. A willingness to work with the ferry companies and work force was also stated.
Do we take
from DHB's statement that "work through our official process towards a new and transformational relationship with all our stakeholders" refers to the various legal actions being taken against them?
At the end of the meeting a
referendum was voted for and, if successful, will give a clear indication of the support behind the proposal. I have my tenner ready. - I have always understood
that the reason why DHB wanted to privatise the port was that they were unable to borrow the required amount of money to develop the Western Docks.
With this in mind will the Peoples Port,
a) Still develop the Western Dock
area
b) Where will they borrow the required money
This was not discussed at all last evening. - i thought the staff excelled themselves at the town hall last
evening, they could never have expected such a turn out.
the fact they managed to process so many people in such a way that the meeting was delayed by less than half an hour is to their credit. - Can the rules of the Trust Port status not be altered to allow investment for something like T2? that is if T2 is actually needed and not being used to try and force
through privatisation. - Yes Martin it can but T2 is not needed now.,and you are dead right there is no need for privatisation of the port,there never has been.
- There is a real need to privatise the Port - the best interests of Dover...
DHB do nothing at all for the town and just bleed it dry. There was a time when most people
working there, including senior management, would live and spend in Dover having a vested interest in the town but that is no longer the case.
The People's Port offers something new, ownership by the people of Dover District.
That means the Port will work in the interests of the town and not soley in its own interests. We have heard that there will initially be a pot of £50m for regeneration with further money to follow from Port operations.
For
decades Dover has declined while the Port has prospered. For decades we have seen our facilities decay.
Dover has a choice - it can carry on as it has in the past with the same result - more decay, more decline.
Or it can
do something different and only by doing something different can Dover's fortunes be turned around.
The People's Port is a bold move that has a massive transformational potential for Dover. Imagine £50m for Dover regeneration,
not in the hands of some distant beaurocratic quango but here, under local control.
If we do not grasp this an an opportunity and work to achiecve it with both hands we would be fools and would deserve our decaying streets and
empty shops. - It will bankrupt the port and Take Dover with it +We will not be a Royal Port anymore after 400years .It is not in the best interest of Dover ,Please to
not take any notice of what they are saying and it will not ever be a Peoples port never,never, That is just away to get your vote,it will be run from the city of London and we have seen over the last year what bankers can do .DO NOT BE
TAKEN IN. - As I said Vic - you understand nothing of what you were told last night, nothing at all.
If you had listened you would know the difference between
ownership equity and debt bonds. The City will not own the Port, the people of Dover will.
As for bankrupsy, that is just rubbish. The Port has a secure long term income that will enable low cost debt finance from investors who
want low risk investment grade bond income.
If you knew anything at all about money you would realise just how absurd your protestations are.
Perhaps though you just dont want to understand and would prefer for Dover's
slow decine and decay to continue than grasp a once and for all opportunity to secure the Ports future in our hands and secure a better future for the town. - The port
has never done that,when any develop is needed it has been done and at their own cost never has it be in decine or decay. - Confused Vic? - It is the town I am talking
about in respect of decay.
I have to laugh at what you have just said because, if anything it helps substantiate the ability of the Port to service the debt bonds without problems. You destroyed your own argument. - I do not have time to keep this up right now,I am going away later on to a big UKIP meeting.
- It ought be
stated here that, according to an MP commenting Charlie's p/p plan, Dover Port has an annual profit of 25 million pounds.
The figure might not correspond exactly, but DHB do have financial savings from revenues that have accrued,
so whoever aims at becoming owner of the Port, must be aiming at disposing of these accrued Port savings too.
It's a bit like wanting to buy a Port that has tens of millions of pounds savings attached to it. It would be easy
promising to put these already existing savings in a pot and offer them to Dover as a bait for getting ownership of the Port.
It has also dawned upon me that the only 'owners' of the Port might be those who pay £10, as these
would be the only local people to have a say in the Port. - 10 quid seems perfectly reasonable to me, i would like to have my say in what happens in the port should it
transfer to dppt. - I am not going now to far on my own Scarborough is some 6hours drive and the cost of fuel,I was going with a mate he can not go now.So it is
back to the forum. - CHRIS P;
I thought the officers worked well last night from whatr iu saw not sure why you raised that.
on the other parts you raise the
town councils legal obligation to hold such ameeting and that to is fine.
but then a stage managed ending was the bit i was getting at, which gave the opinion the town council was behind this proposal, with or with out the needed
10 people calling for it.
I hope the organisers of the peoples port do not underestimate the DHB as barryw appears to be.
The question of the workforce was raised, but so was local opinion thatthe workforce shouldn't
have a voice because of strikes etc
(funny that bit got missed)
the Lord geezer stated the three thirds representation but not how that set up would work if there were disagreements..
which as a local paying your tenner
you could be outvoted by two thirds if there were a vote.
lots more unanswered
- From a purely business point of view - not talking about whether or not the
Port has helped the Town (other than the jobs side), Dover Harbour Board have run the Port of Dover very successfully
They may not appear to be very charitable towards Dover, but actually running the Port, the management of it,
even in times of crises, they do rather well.
They alone started the cruise business here and that has brought enormous benefits to all sorts of businesses.
They are not a charity, but hard-nosed business men - perhaps a
little too hard for many people and yes, there probably could have been different approaches on a number of initiatives, but they do run the Port of Dover very efficiently.
Whoever buys the Port, must realise that it is business
and it is a business that needs to work well for the sake of the UK's economy, not just Dover's.
If it is to be run as a Social Enterprise or Charity, then that needs to be laid out before us
too.
Roger - roger,i agree with you in part of what you say,but the cruise side of port operations has never benifited dover town center since it started
operations,the only things that have benifited is the castle and towns like canterbury and ashford along with london. - ROGER/.BRIAN
Interesting roger on the basis of your
views you differ from the Dover population who don't share your view on the running of DHB
Maybe that's a lack of understanding on some parts , and it will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.
Brian
MORE
could be done on the cruise ships - Brian the town must help itself and lure these cruise visitors in. Look at it another way..the Port as is professionally supplies 300,000
cruise visitors per year and they fetch up right on our doorstep. Its a rich source of revenue, but we dont have anybody at all trying to sell them the idea of staying, lingering and spending in Dover.
Its not the Ports
responsibility to go further than they do..they deliver the cruise liners and the passengers and after that....well - agreed
paulb - The town does benefit from the cruise liners. Quite a lot of the crew visit the shops and so do some of the passengers, maybe not enough of them though.
- A bit of serious marketing, and town would be laughing
- It's good that people are passionate about local issues. But
let's get something straight. It is not the responsibility of the DHB, or any other future owner of the port, to run the town or district. That is what we have local authorities for.
The port delivers millions of people to
and from Dover every year. The fact that the town has never been able to capitalise on this unique opportunity is not the responsibility of the port. You could argue that the ferry companies should do more to promote Kent for inbound
tourism. The last few times I've been on P&O they actuallly have brochures promoting holidays in America! Is it me?
In all the fuss and politics, people seem to have forgotten the whole thrust of the argument about the future
of Trust Ports. Under their current governance arangements they can only reinvest money in the port.
This is another example where, if we don't get it right this time, Dover could really lose big time. The port is the one
economic asset we have. Some people are reluctant to change. Whilst Dover stays the same, the world around us is changing. Think long and hard before you come to your decisions. - That from D.H.B. makes me smile.The irony of it is that I know from personal experience that they as the group with stewardship of the harbour sought,and I quote 'Seek to
disassociate the Port from the decaying hinterland of the Town' -that sounds to me that they have the best interest of the community at heart. - At last a couple of
sensible comments (from Roger and Kevin Charles)! Most of the people on this Forum seem to have forgotten that DHB is a business - not the "charity" it once was for the (some) lazy people who viewed a job there as a cushy number.
Didn't you all refer to it as Don't Hurry Boys???? The Port is a hugely profitable business and has become more so since Dr Goldfield arrived. It's true, that he's not the most popular with people - but that's because he had to
make some tough decisions to make the business what it is today. That was his job. Dover Town Council and Dover District Council should look to themselves to question whether the decline to Dover is actually down to them. As Kevin
rightly points out, the town is not the responsibility of Dover - it can't be under the Trust Port status. What it does do is provide jobs - not just within DHB but within the countless organisations in and around the Port involved in
the industry. My understanding from DHB's plans is that it wishes to expand on its business (something it can't do at the moment) and that, in turn, will create more jobs. This is a great forum, but tinged slightly with some pompous
remarks from people who have no concept of running a multi million pound business. I won't be voting for the People's Port because I can't honestly see how it can better what the Port does now and even more crucially, what it plans
to do in the future. Vic is right when he says that DHB will be bankrupt under a People's Port Scheme.... any profit it makes will be swallowed up in the debt owed to its lenders. - Interesting comment on how effectively the current management run the Port,Roger.Interesting when you take into account how much revenue the Board have lost with its out sourcing policy.The board have seen their bread and
butter revenues dip in alarming rate.The tieing up of all vessels and the ancillary services are now provided by a third party.This is the reason that D.H.B. are seeking to increase birthing fees so steeply.Wow the last best practice
management I saw undertaken like that it was by Ian McGregor and the pits,a shining example of good management. - Oh I forgot to mention,they broke the template on good
management with the governance of the pension scheme.Reminds of another towering member of the 1980's 'gods of good business practice' Robert Maxwell. - DHB is a business
that has the legal obligation to serve the best interests of all of its stakeholders. A business which has quite obviously incurred the ire of its biggest stakeholders (Its Users and The Town in which it resides) would appear to have
singularly failed at fulfilling this obligation at its most basic level.
Charities run as successful businesses all the time. Cooperatives run as successful businesses all the time, is John Lewis a failure as a business? Is the
Co-op a failure as a business? Are Oxfam, Barnardos, Green Peace et al failures? Erm, no, they are all very successful businesses with charitable aims and status. DPPT marries good business practice and global best practice in port
governance and ownership with community ownership and charitable aims and status. It is not a case of trying to run a business as a charity, but of running a charity as a successful business which benefits its members and
stakeholders.
DPPT is already becoming a touch stone internationally as the new paradigm for port ownership, with interest from countries as far flung as New Zealand, Australia, Canada and Spain and whilst we look internationally
at global best practices that will work here and against which we can benchmark and improve, they are looking to us for what they can learn from Dover and what elements are transferrable to their own legal systems and cultures.
I
am passionate, as some of you may have noticed on Thursday, about ensuring that our town and our communities gain ownership of the port in a meaningful way and that the port becomes the engine of growth and development that it is capable
of becoming and should have been many years since. I have also spent 27+ years working in the maritime sector from Deck Cadet to Board level, from cleaning the bilges to delivering a brand new multi-purpose port facility from project
conception to commence operations and have put a lot of careful thought into concept, organisation and governance in conjunction with other members of DPPT.
Some of the answers we give may not be to everyone's liking and some may
feel because of this that their question has not been answered properly, but I and other members of the board will endeavour to answer every question raised as completely, openly and honestly as we can.
- well neil, i can only say that your big idea has caused the biggest and most intense debate locally in my memory.
i suspect there will be
many twists and turns yet before the matter reaches a conclusion. - Neil, will European competition rules mean that if the People's Port bid is to be considered by
the Government the whole process starts again and will also be open to bids from other groups/businesses etc? - Nice to see some differing views on the peoples port
proposals, and gary p comments on the compliment of DHB and in his opinion it's good work. - Howard.
The end of Trust Status under DHB's plans is the biggest shake up
for the town and the port for more than 400 years. It should be the cause of the biggest, most intense debate. We should fight all the way to ensure that we get a new Charter and a new port governance that belongs to all of us and
outlasts the old. I hope to play my part, howsoever small, in ensuring the best outcome for Dover.
- Kevin and GaryP, if McDonalds customers
all stepped out of the doors and dropped their packaging on the ground it would be expected of the franchise to do something about it. DHB customers regularly gridlock the town and yet Bob Goldfield has often stated that their
responsibility begins and ends at their gates. The only effort they have made to improve matters is an egress road designed to get traffic out of the port, and into the gridlock, quicker.
Making Dover attractive to visitors is as
much the responsibility of the port as it is the councils precisely because it is their customers that play such a large part in making it unattractive. - good
simile chris.
neil
it may be an idea for you to e mail paul on dover7@msn.com and request a password so that you can post live.
at present your posts are in danger of being lost in the mix if other posts are made before
paul or myself logs in.
the issue is far too important for that to happen. - Hi Kathy,
EU competition rules will not cause the whole process to start
again. Nothing has gone on the market for sale yet. DPPT is a viable self started, self funding and self perpetuating alternative to the DHB plan that offers cash at fair market value for the purchase of the Port of Dover and has a huge
additional benefit in terms of social capital that cannot be offered by a private equity investor. On every test of fair value DPPT fulfills the criteria that competition requires.
Of course, our national Government has the option
of not approving the DHB transfer request and making the transfer of the port subject of a compulsory process with new and strict criteria dictated towards the fulfillment of its flagship policy aims. In such case it would be necessary
for all interested parties to match the new criteria dictated by government. Where we need to be as a town and community is in a position where we hold the winning hand. The referendum vote is part of the process to try and ensure that
Dover and its communities are in the best possible position. That's why we need a good turnout at the referendum. - ok, I'm signed up and signed in.
I'll try and keep up with you all and participate whenever I get a mo. - A good meeting all round but I have to say that Mr Matcham you do
yourself no favors in trying to bully people into your way of thinking yes you have a view so do other people this is why Dover is standing still because of people like you who will not move forward, we do not respond to bullies and any
other threats,There were many X Dock workers there and all had a valued point of view,I myself am still on the fence even thought its a good idea. I still feel that Dover wont benefit from it being a peoples port I think its just a way
of stopping the government from selling it into the private sector,I could be wrong, And Mr Matcham I mean no disrespect to your good self this is just my point of view. - Well posted Neil,I do not think the good people of Dover realise how important this issue is.This is the alternative to the shysters and sham artists of Harbour House getting the rich on the backs of generations of
Dovorians.I was told prior to the meeting that the reason that senior management fro D.H.B did not attend was because and I qoute 'there is no interest in this issue in the town' and where was Dr Prod ,oh sorry, I ment Dr Bob
Goldfield,in the Far East with Tim Waggot.Thats where your head office for the Port is going to be, - The Senior Management of the D.H.B. can go,they can easy
be replaced,but the port must say a Royal port,and not sold off,or handed over to anyone. The Royal Charter can be updated so the town get funding without the sell off. - Vic,
Most unfortunately for all of us such an option as you describe will almost inevitably lead us to the same situation as we found ourselves in last March next time a Government or DHB executive decide that they
would rather like the cash and care more for the cash than they do for a Royal Charter, history, tradition and the wishes of the stakeholders.
The DPPT solution puts the port directly into the hands that care most about it with a
constitution formulated in such a way that the port cannot be flogged off without 100% agreement of all of the members and stakeholders.
We have seen time and again that we cannot rely on our Government to protect and preserve the
rights that we should enjoy as stakeholders in the port. Today's rulers may be benign (always a matter of opinion), even supportive, but tomorrow's may be even more avaracious than those of the past. We've seen already the level of
protection that the Royal Charter has afforded and it wasn't great.
Today we need to forge a new governance and ownership model that protects the stakeholders' rights and interests in perpetuity, because we cannot count on
government to do it for us. - I find it irresponsible on the part of Dover Town Council to hold a referendum at this point on the future of the Port
of Dover, as the proposals presented by the People's Port Trust are incognito.
There is absolutely no way of knowing whether the Port of Dover would have a debit of 200 million or 400 million pounds; but lately the People's Port
Trust has been insisting that the debt will be 200 million pounds.
The Romney Marsh Times 15 November 2010 explicitly states that Nick Clegg Deputy Prime Minister had shown some enthusiasm for the People's Port Trust scheme on
the understanding that it would bring in 400 million pounds!
The readers here should understand that, the higher the sum, the higher the debt which the Port would have to pay back.
So without any official statement
whatsoever from the Government as to which price is being accepted as the borrowing price for the People's Port Trust to take off, how can the poeple of Dover be asked to vote on the proposal?
It seems that Mr. Elphicke MP does
not have the slightest idea himself whether the debt on Dover Port will be 200 million or 400 million pounds.
He should first go and find out and return with an official statement from the Government, and only then incur a cost of
£15,000 on Dover for a referendum!
In fact the people who are expected to vote do not have knowledge of some fundamental information on the issue, and prior to the vote may-be misled into believing something entirely different to
what the reality is. - can i draw peoples attention to the post from neil, just below alex's one.
- The Royal Charter has been
there for 400years and hopfully it will be there for 400more. - Hi Vic,
Oops, I did a post before signing in.
Unfortunately Vic, the option that you describe
leads almost inevitably to us being back in the same situation that we were in last February in 5 years time or 10 years time, whenever the Government of the day or the new port executive decide that they would rather have the cash and
are more interested in it than they are in history, tradition and the rights and wishes of the port's stakeholders.
A DPPT solution puts the ownership and governance of the port directly into the hands of those who care about it
most and the Trust's constitution ensures that it cannot be flogged off without 100% agreement of all of the membership of the Trust and of the port's stakeholders. Today's government may be benign (always a matter of personal
opinion), even supportive. But tomorrow's rulers could turn out to be far more avaracious than even any previous administration.
It has been shown time and again that we cannot rely on central government or the goodwill of a
harbour board appointed remotely by them to protect our rights as stakeholders in the port. The time is now come when we can, and should, effect a new ownership and governance structure for the port that we can all rely on to ensure that
money for central government and/or personal gain can never become a temptation to sell the stakeholders out. Local ownership and local accountability serving the National interest in perpetuity. The Royal Charter has not and cannot
afford this level of certainty, it has already been nearly subverted once, we have to protect these rights ourselves.
You should also know that the first options that were looked at were to do with a modification of Trust Port
Status in law to try and achieve exactly what you suggest Vic and despite your protestations that what you suggest is a practical and permanent solution, I'm sorry to inform you that it appears not to be so despite diligent attempts to
try and find a way to make it so. The Royal Charter is, and will remain, the creature of central government whatever modifications are made to it and, as such will, in the end, be subject to the whim of government
policy. - Alexander,
I'll try and clarify on the sums involved.
DPPT in the first instance must raise GB£400million in short term debt.
This is the gross bid value figure often quoted and often misunderstood, it grabs headlines and unfortunately the press frequently forgets to add the "gross" that I've always said when using this figure.
Under the terms and
conditions of the Ports Act £200 million goes to treasury directly and stays there. This is the Net bid value and is the figure that represents a fair market value for the port in the current market conditions with port and harbour
facilities exchanging at between 6 and 8 times EBITDA.
The other £200million is held in escrow to meet any outstanding liabilities and obligations of the Harbour Board (which will cease to exist as a legal entity once the
transaction is complete) and to cover the costs of the transfer. Once these obligations and liabilities have been discharged, the rest of the money flows back to DPPT where it will be used to pay down the short term lending to just £200
million whilst DPPT converts the longer term £200million to long term, low interest bearing investment grade debt bonds.
I hope that I'm being clear
above. - If I undestand you correctly, Neil, the People's Port Trust would have to borrow £400 million, of which half would go to the
Treasury.
If I understand correctly, the same People's Port Trust would have to pay back 400 million pounds plus interest to the lenders. - Alexander,
Not
quite.
£400 million goes to Treasury initially.
£200 million stays with the Treasury.
The other £200 million flows back to DPPT and is used to pay down half the debt that has been raised immediately.
DPPT
will still then owe £200million which is converted into long term investment grade debt bonds.
Net payment to Treasury = £200million
Debt of DPPT at the close of the transaction = £200million. This is financed through long
term investment grade bonds.
The above is all in accordance with our offer documentation which has been publicly available since November and quoted right here "the Trust hereby makes an offer for the Port of Dover ("the
Offer"). If this were to be under The Ports Act 1991 process, the headline consideration would be £400 million. The net consideration offered is £200 million.
Further particulars of the offer are contained in a detailed
confidential memorandum which has been prepared and will be provided if the Government is minded to entertain this Offer. In particular, we are fully mindful of the obligations in terms of working capital, maintenance and
investment.
This offer is subject to detailed due diligence to be carried out on the business and assets of DHB and is subject to contract."
- neill
would you be so kind as to explain what "escrow" and "ebitda" are when they are at home?
most of us are not cognisant of such terms. - Hi Howard,
Sorry, no probs.
Escrow - A third party account that holds money safely while a sale is in progress
EBITDA - Earnings Before, Interest, Tax, Deductions and
Amortisation - Neil, then there are some open questions: DHB have savings from past revenues. Do you know how much these savings are, and would these
be handed over to the People's Port Trust?
Are these savings the £70 million cash asstes mentioned by PaulB above in the headlines?
In your last post you state that "The other £200 million flows back to DPPT and is used
to pay down half the debt that has been raised immediately."
In your previous post you wrote, however, that the same £200 million pounds would be used to "meet any outstanding liabilities and obligations of the Harbour
Board".
These two statements contradict each other.
If there are outstanding liabilities and obligations of DHB, then for these to be covered, the whole sum of the same £200 million cannot be paid back immediately to the
lenders.
As I had to do with the representations that were made to the Secretary of State for Transport, I know that there is a big question about a pension fund. Does this fund come under any outstanding liabilities or
obligations of DHB?
There was also mention of a fund for Dover Town. Are you suggesting that the already existing cash asstes of DHB will go to Dover town, and that is the end of it?
What would there be special in that, as
these cash assets are already there and do not stem from any lenders to the People's Port Trust, but from past Dover Port profits!
Adding to all this, DHB mentioned a few months ago a sum of - if I remember rightly - £87 million
needed for works on Eastern Docks.
It would seem thet the People's Port Trust would not have a penny left to cover these costs.
It also seems that the T2 project is totally out of the question, according to the figures that
you supply.
Considering all this, it seems that Dover people will have to look very carefully at the People's Port Trust plans before voting!
May-be you could consider all this before proceeding with the referendum. The
whole plan seems to be in need of critical consideration by the people of Dover, who may not be aware of all these, and any other, essential details.
- Neil, you have
now entered the wrong side of Pareto's Principle. - Alexander,
The existing liabilities and obligations of DHB are not transparent, but as the business is
currently debt free, these are considered negligable, certainly the numbers that DHB make publicly available would indicate a close of business debt free position. As previously stated both in our offer documentation and in other fora,
all financial statements and undertakings made by DPPT are subject to full due diligence. Our advisers have already been able to conduct some due diligence and the result of this is that the £200m in escrow will flow back to DPPT minus
transaction costs. The costs of the transaction are less than £10million. Forgive me if I have rounded to the nearest 10m, especially as the numbers are quite large, as these are. The previous statements that I made do not therefore
materially contradict one another.
Yes, there are estimated to be GB£70 million in cash and equivalents on the books at DHB today. This figure has been rising by approx £10 million a year. These monies would transfer to the new
owner of the port.
The pension fund deficit will transfer to the new owner and is a matter of high priority for DPPT to resolve. In this regard the board has already passed a resolution to employ pension fund experts to assist us
in resolving the deficit within the shortest timeframe possile.
These things are all much easier to explain from the spreadsheets. At present I am having to explain without them, but we will be including spreadsheets for those who
are interested in the referendum campaign releases.
DHB have published that they have slated £85m over the next 5 years for works in the Eastern Docks. Within our model, over the same period a sum of £100m has been accounted for
in order to conduct catch up investment plus works already planned by DHB.
Also within the model is the sum of £50million which will be used for regeneration projects. This is not a once and for all payment, there will be an
ongoing annual share of profits as gift aided from taxable profits of the port to the Trust. This makes the Port operations more tax efficient than they currently are whilst directly benefiting the Town.
Kindly remember that all
of these monies are included in the financial model that the banks have given their backing to and by the ratings agencies which have indicated an investment grade rating on the debt bonds that will be issued by the Trust to service the
purchase of the port over the longer term. All the items that you ask me to consider have been considered most carefully by men and women who are far more financially astute than I am. Perhaps I am just not good enough at explaining what
I understand.
T2 - If the DHB sale proceeds as wished for by the DHB, T2 is explicitly excluded and the new owner is explicitly relieved of any obligation to invest in or construct T2. On current traffic forecasts and with the
works planned in the Eastern docks, an effective dynamic traffic/land mangement scheme on the Eastern side plus the kind of joined up thinking that incorporates an off-dock, off-road buffer zone, traffic can be well managed through the
current facilities well into the late 2020's. It is clear from the facts that the T2 development promoted by DHB will not be built by a private investor on purely commercial grounds. DPPT has a different set of drivers though and these
would lead us to totally re-examine the plan developed by Halcrow and look to develop something different and something earlier, costing far less, that would meet the needs of the town to have less traffic on Town Wall street.
The
referendum has, for good or ill, been called and will proceed and all of these financial details will be made available for consideration by the voters of Dover during the course of the
campaign. - I really will have to remember to sign in before posting.
Alexander. I have posted an answer which should appear soon. I posted
before logging on...again:) - I agree with Chris Precious that more needs to be done to manage the road situation, but surely expanding the port and
hence it's capability to cope with increasing levels of traffic is what DHB have proposed with T2 and why changes are required to its governance structure to achieve that? Of course, that basic argument has got lost in the parochial
politics that seem to dominate anything that happens in Dover. Could this by way so many potential developers give us such a wide berth?
The reality is that successive governments have failed spectacularly to address traffic
issues at the UK's most important roro port. Instead of focusing on a "people's port" perhaps a greater political emphasis should be made to lobby the Government for a 21st century road system connecting a vital piece of the
national economy. - Kevin, DHB's own consultant (Halcrow) put the T2 proposal well behind the most effective and efficient way of managing the port and it's
traffic.
Their first choice (successfully partly buried in the report by DHB) was better management of the Eastern Dock infrastructure (inc new works) & space, better management process (inc greater use of a booking system) and
an out of Town vehicle buffer zone (for initial off site management of traffic).
Subsequent reports by other consultants excluded this as the primary option and used T2 as the preferred option, further burying the best
option.
T2 was an exercise for DHB board members ego's. The consultation process was a sham and showed the true contempt that the DHB Board have for the people of Dover. It was a disingenuous exercise that allowed the DHB to
promote the development of the port.
The consultants first choice would also have had a noticeable impact on the need for operation stack to occur. - Using
DHB's own figures the T2 development, as proposed by them, will not be fully required until 2035 or later. Improved port management and upgrading of some facilities (such as improvements to berths at the Eastern Docks already underway)
would solve a few of the problems.
As DHB's plans now stand the area of harbour currently available from the beach area, and enjoyed by sea sport enthusiasts, swimmers and visitors, will be replaced with a marina, two ferry lanes
and two yacht 'holding areas' (spots for small boats to wait until it is safe to cross the ferry lanes).
T2 is desirable for the potential it has to aid in town regeneration but not for the roads as it simply moves the gridlock
off Townwall Street but does little to improve matters by the A20 and Aycliffe, thus still snarling up the entrance into the town.
Far better to have the port run by an "organisation" with the best interests of the town at its
heart and a willingness to listen to and work with the port users, ferry operators, haulage companies and tourists. - Well this is how I saw last weeks meeting of
the port at the Dover Town Hall.
The presentation by the so called experts was at its best poor.
The Chairman of the so called Peoples Port Trust Mr Neil Wiggins, spend more time telling us about the jobs he had done in the
pass then the port.
We move on now to the so called city funding expert,This was very shady at its best into how they could get its funding and at what cost that would be at.
And he could not answer any of the questions put to
him,ie=How much interest would be put on the £200million loan.?(2)And how and when would the trust make the handover of the £50million to the town of Dover?.They were not the only questions put to him and he could not answer
them.
The next Expert,sorry i do not have his name,all he told us was how long it took him to get from his home to Dover and that he backed the Peoples Port Trust.
And then there was the last one from the Dover Chambers of
Commerce and his prestation was so poor I am not going to talk about it.
And I am sorry but the Mayor of Dover was not at her best as the Chairman of the meeting,in the pass I have seen her doing at lot better than at this
meeting.
When the meeting open She said "Please will you all sit and listen to all the presentations first, then after you can have two mins each to put questions and your views over"
But I AM SORRY THAT DID NOT HAPPEN,
after each one of the presentations she allowed us the public to put one qustion each to the person who done the presentation,and it all got out of hand and went on and on.
At the end of the presentation,our MP was allowed to get
up for his imput and that went on well over the two mins,anyway he went on to say,how the Peoples port Trust would save the Port Of Dover and the Town and had his full backing,well as he was one of the group that started it up he would
say that.
I would just to add this is the same MP just 3weeks ago in the house of commons voted yes fo r the sale off of our own woodlands in the UK.Now he is behind the sale off,of the Great port of Dover.
After he had
returned to his chair.
It was time to open up the meeting to the Public,that did not last long and many of us had our hands up to have our views heard ,but it was a set up with only a very few asked to put a QUESTION .I had my hand up
all the time and it was seen by the chairman but I was not asked or picked out of the few to get up.
Well so what you might say to yourself,but what you do not know is that before the meeting I was asked not to just get up and
shout out,if I done that,then at the end I would be allowed to get up and put my views over within the two mins,That did not happen and I could see was not going to happen that is why and only why I took the law into my own hands.
Well coming up later will be my views and they will be on the forum. Thank You for reading this post. - Vic - reading what you have just written I can only
conclude that you would not know a good presentation if it jumped out and bit you.
You seem to think that you know more about Port management than someone who has actually run Ports and more about Port finance than a
representative of a large and reputable company that makes its money on such projects.
Vic - you know nothing and your comments have no credability. - An out of
town "Buffer Zone" will never happen on environmental grounds. Are we really suggesting that the best solution is to build Europe's largest lorry park instead of actually developing the port? I simply do not buy the idea that the
management of DHB have spent the best part of five years developing a plan to massage their egos. I went to most of the consultations and thought they gave a detailed analysis of all the options, including "doing nothing". - I wish I had attended the meeting that Mr Matcham attended.
In fact I went to the one at the Town Hall called for the Electorate of Dover Town to listen to, and
vote on, the proposal for a Dover Town referendum on not privatising the port as proposed by DHB and consider an alternative option.
The option was well explained, for anyone with an open mind, and is included in the options being
considered by government.
Interested parties both on the podium and on the floor, in the main, had their opportunity to put their point of view before the motion was moved to a vote.
The Town electorate present then had
the opportunity to conclude the legal process with a vote.
Apart from some kerfuffle from an outsider at the back of the Hall the Dover Town Electorate, that chose to attend, had their opportunity to vote and did so. Positively
supporting the motion.
All professionally done to the satisfaction of the attending electorate in the process, as no dissent was made from a Townsperson.
As I said Mr Matchams meeting sounds much more exciting. With
rambling presentations, no real facts, the Chair appearing to be hijacked by an attendee and almost no one from the floor being allowed to contribute. - barry
nobody needs to be a financial expert to question those who are.
we all question those with different skills to us, vic and others asked questions last thursday that were not fully anwered. - You would say that Barry ,you are for the sell off.But you make out because you deal with money matters that the rest of us do not know what we are talking about, we have
all seen over the last two year what money so called experts have done to the UK and none of it is good ,So you should not go around at this time saying you are one of them.
ADDED: Vic have fixed this post for you so will
drop the extra amendment post you made, just to keep everything clear. PaulB. - Mr Morris, Take it from me what I said is true. Thank you for your post
- The Buffer Zone was a part of the whole option to better manage the traffic, it was not intended to be a lorry park. That proposal is already an alternative being actively
considered by the KCC further along the M20 in the Ashford area.
The DHB consultant proposal was also to make better use of ferry capacity which currently only runs at an averaged 50% from Dover, as opposed to 70% on other vehicle
ferries considered by the DHB consultant.
Your right my comment on ego's was a little emotional. But going back to facts they were misleading the consultation process by putting T2 forward as the preferred optimised option. It
was the DHB preferred most convenient option. - BIG BUSINESS.
Murdoch.........BSKYB.
Yet another example of big business in charge of Government! - Kevin the 'buffer zone' just as 'T2' were a ploy to keep the yokel locals amused whilst the real plan and the distribution of wealth beyond the 'dreams of
avarice' were portioned out amongst a select elite of D.H.B. management.
T2 was a red herring it was set underway to obtain planning permission for the Western Docks,a much more marketable commodity for the 'pot'. - Here is a clue how many senior D.H.B. execs now live locally.
- Neil, thank you for your replies, you
have been straight forward and to the point.
If my conclusion here does not prove me wrong, the original DHB request for privatisation of the Port was in order to construct T2 so as to cope with a projected increase in port-
traffic of 70% over the coming 26 years.
Following this request, the Government (previous) decided on public consultation.
Many comments on the Forum from different people seem to suggest that, in the mean time, the reason for
a change in the Dover Port status is in order to bring in a sum of money (£200 million pounds) to the State Treasury, and not to build T2.
Assuming that these comments are based on reasonable assumption and have been confirmed by
Government ministers (although whether this is the case is not known to me), then my conclusion is, that the situation of the original privatisation request from DHB to the Government has drastically altered to a situation in which the
Government has decided to change the Port status (until now a State asset) with the main intention of receiving a large sum of money for the Treasury, so by relinquishing Dover Port as a State
asset.
- If my conclusion corresponds, then one may of-course ask if the government is acting in the best interests of Dover Port and of Dover
Town. - The Government and D.H.B. senior management have not worked in the best interest of the town for the last decade,they have, altenatively, worked in their own interests
which,by luck or design,have dove-tailed.Conspiracy anyone ? - Mr Augustus a good post there,well said.
- i am never one for conspiracy theories, i doubt that d.h.b and the last government ever got together on any issue.
sometimes one gets "dirty tricks" stuff to sabotage a rival bid. - If the port goes it will go to the highest bidder,and the D.H.B. know that .
- All, please note that the
referendum question is "Do you oppose the private sale of the Port of Dover as proposed by the Dover Harbour Board and support its transfer to the community of Dover instead".
Government is trying to tell us that they want local
people to take control of their own futures, that local institutions and local accountability wedded to enterprise and good business sense is what their programme is all about.
Remember the question when voting, maximise the
turnout, maximise the local and national publicity and Dover makes it very hard for the government to ignore the result. Dover is posed with the question to secure the future of our port from sale to remote private equity interests and
ensure that it is locallly owned by the community of Dover who will protect its future.
I and many others are working hard lobbying government, lobbying our MP, raising the profile of Dover with influential think tanks on both
sides of the political divide, etc. to try and ensure that the social value to our locale is added to the pure cash value (which is already at fair market rate) pushing total community bid value way over what any private equity
organisation will stomach.
The battle for our port is fought on many fronts and will be won only by continuously engaging in action on all of them and opening new ones when timing and resources make it possible/expediant to do
so.
I see what you mean Graham, but am actively engaged elsewhere at the same time so as to stay on the right side of the principle. - Neil,
you already have my full support as you know.
This is the only opportunity that Dover will ever have to enrich itself (and I don't mean just money) and people should grasp that opportunity.
It's a shame that some cannot
see that! I only hope that the government sees the added value that this option brings over the personal enrichment proposal of the DHB executive.
You still have a long way to go as we both know but the prize at the end of the
tunnel is greater than many realise.
Good Luck - In other words it would mean voting to transfer 200 million pounds of State Treasury debt to Dover
Port. - Graham:
Re your comment "The DHB consultant proposal was also to make better use of ferry capacity which currently only runs at an averaged 50% from Dover, as
opposed to 70% on other vehicle ferries considered by the DHB consultant."
This would seem to have nothing to do with DHB. An average of 50% capacity would appear acceptable for the Dover routes with three ferry companies
competing and necessarily offering a high frequency of sailings. As with any other form of transport, at peak times the ferries are bursting at the seams and at quiet times nearly empty. Other routes such as long North Sea services with
only one or two sailings a day may well achieve an average of 70%. - The reason for the change of status fro DHB was to be able to facilitate T2 development because
as a Trust Port, any borrowing for that (or any purpose) would have to be sourced from Government funds and would go against the PSBR, which it never could, so privatisation was the only way.
The People Port fits in with many
Government proclamations and ideas - big society and localism, but will it (DPPTL) be able to borrow money for T2 or any major development here when they are already (will be) paying back large sums for the original purchase ?
Planning ahead, is always better than leaving things to the last minute - as we all know.
Roger - Ed,
The 50% has everything to do with DHB. They
manage the traffic coming into the Dock and provide all of the infrastructure and facilitate the traffic going on to the ferries. If that’s not what they do why are they being paid?
You are right the Port happily works thro’ a
peak and trough easy access system. Totally ignoring Operation Stack (sorry that may not be true I heard they do provide portaloo's, but that may be rumour)
It was this that it’s own consultant criticised. Turn up and go is the
problem. DHB use this spare capacity to claim it allows them to clear Operation Stack so quickly. In fact it is this system that causes the problem in the first place. I’m sure ferry companies would much prefer their ferries to be full
most of the time as the traffic volumes increase, rather than peaks and troughs.
I’m also sure Bob Goldfield would not have used the same approach in managing the Airports he used to manage. They would have been clogged in an
instant, if passengers just turned up for a flight without a seat on a plane being booked.. Seems no skill transfers or best practise from him.
Roger,
T2 was never required until 2034, according to DHB’s own consultants and
national forecast figures.
DHB have now stated 2024 as the “earliest” they will need it. They do not say that their consultants said this would be part of a phased introduction.
I think Philip Augustus got it spot on in his
post. T2 was a planning exercise to increase the marketability of the Port for privatisation. It's more about the DHB Executives personal enrichment.
Like any other investment T2 will be included in Peoples Port forward plan and
funding will be part of the plan. The ease of getting that funding will depend on PP’s performance, no different to any other company.
Alexander,
Whatever! I will waste no time on your comments.
- if that press release from gordon and mike of the reds doesn't start an impassioned debate i would be very surprised.
there is mention of an emergency budget if the
administration changes, surely they could furnish us with the basics?
i am sure that they would have done some calculations. - Sit back and wait for Barry W
to go into overdrive ;-) - I really am not going to bother to comment of such blatent rubbish.
Everyone knows about Labour's deficit and the need for spending cuts as a
result.
I will treat this with the sheer contempt that it deserves. Sorry to disappoint you Martin. - KCC new transformation executive @ £165,000 pa
The
two Pauls have a similar problem.
Paul C; KCC are too big and too expensive.
Paul W;DDC is top heavy with management executives and too expensive.
Both are past their sell by date and not fit for purpose.
Both Pauls are fiddling at the edges and dithering with the restructure of their Councils.
Restructuring of our Councils need to be root and branch logical and brave.
District Councils need to form into an East Kent
Council.This in turn would reduce the size of KCC drastically.
The future enormous savings of such a restructure could help underwrite the Peoples Port Project
Charlie needs to shake Eric Pickles elbows.
We need
some radical thinking and action not more expensive salaried executives.
Reality needs to be confronted.
- So Labour's answer to a £2.4m cut is to
say we have nothing to say.
Oh sorry, if they are elected you'll have to wait until September for them to tell you their cuts. For cuts it will be.
As Mike Eddy says "we are not going to tell you just in case you Tories
pinch our ideas" or more likely have the ability to make informed constructive comment.
Their message is "Please vote for us & you'll have to wait nearly six months to divulge what we are going to do".
And as Mike Eddy
said further he did it "on the back of an envelope".
Sums it up really. - prompt response from the council fuhrer, must mention that reg
posted earlier but has only just been authorised.
just underneath paul's missive. - Reg will be pleased with this one...just had a press release in and I
will upload it tomorrow as dont want to have too many confused issues all at once...but DDC are merging their Council House Management services with 3 other Councils...Canterbury, Shepway and Thanet.
So this is in keeping with
the new flavour of the economic month ..ie saving money, and surely Reg will see this as a feather in the cap of Paul Watkins.
I myself personally always worry at the job losses but everyone seems keen to save money and not worry
about jobs. - Of course just like the tories when in opposition labour will fight the elections on a manifesto, and reverse some of the drastic cutbacks by the
tories.
I'm no longer a member so don't have any imput in labour party but im sure they will have prepared an emergency budget all ready when they take over in may. - Such is the so called battle for hearts and minds that is part and parcel of this crown'ed-glory of a democracy that is the UK today.
Where is the shelter for the electorate in this battered-wife option at the ballot box?
To stay with the drunken, violent boyfriend or to return to the violent, drunken husband?
Little wonder that the two main partys are happy to muddle along with 25% or less of the vote for our whole system is politician friendly
above and before anything else.
"0% increase or no 0% increase, that is the question..." - It is a little confusing with Mr Cameron's big society
outlook
looking for local communities to have a bigger say,
yet here in Dover we are seeing the Tory led administration doing the complete opposite,
cutting back funding to C.A.B.
Cutting out community officers,
list goes
on,,,,,,
Like i'v said on the forum, if Roger, paulw and others realy believe in the shared services, then be brave enough to go that one step further and support Reg's unitary councils call,
*
*
EDIT ADDED: Keef dont forget to Log-In first before posting on frontpage
otherwise your posts can get delayed. Paul - Keith.
They are cutting community
officers in the knowledge they are dedicated people and hoping they will continue to carry on their good work, unpaid. - No Keith, they have to takeover first?
Then they
have said [yours & Reg's best Friend Mike E.] they won't have a revised Budget until September. Public record stuff!!
As DDC's accounts & budgets are transparent why won't they tell the public what they intend to cut as part
of Election transparency.
Come clean.
Which frontline services will they hit.
Will Gordon close the Museum or is it back to shutting Dover Town Hall?
Would Ben Bano cut the last vestiges of tourism he missed
last time he was in control of that Budget?
Will they revert to type and cut the fee paid to post offices for processing DDC Council tax & other payments?
Local government financial affairs are very open. Nothing to
hide.
So why the secrets?
BE HONEST TELL THE PUBLIC.
If it is known now, debate it now.
Will all of sudden funds become available from local sources that have not been allocated previously?
The
public are not fools, don't take them for fools.
As a disciple of Gordon on the Forum why not urge him to be honest & straightforward. - it has to be said that the present administration have not made many front line service cuts considering.
it would be fair for the opposition to say what they would do differently if they were presented with power in
may. - gordon is as you know one of the nicest guys about, and im sure ready for may he will have an emergency budget ready, as i say im no longer a member so i dont
have any details.nd
And yes im happy to support gordon c and looking forward to may and labour taking control
- Paulw
you mention mike e
but forget
to mention your major fallout with sue n in the council chamber walking out saying you didnt want to listen - to her
and a stand up row when you returned.
some of us have long
memories - Not sure I understand the argument about Dover ferries only operating at 50% capacity. Surely the unique selling point of Dover is frequency and the ability for
hauliers to "turn up and go". Capacity and frequency is why Dover will always be the number one choice for roro traffic, and why comparison with other ports is not really relevant. I suspect the ferry operators would be the first to
complain if this was not the case and if they were not happy with the system. The comparison with airports is not a fair one either.
Again, I don't buy the idea that all this is some grand plan for personal enrichment. The DHB
was asked by the government - along with all trust ports - for proposals for modernisation. They've done as asked, and in the process, developed a logical plan for expanding the port to meet likely future demand. Sounds like a
sensible, forward-thinking organisation. If some people see this as marketing, then that's a good thing. I want the port to attract serious investors willing to invest in the future success of the port and which will unlock the
regeneration opportunities in the town.
- Keith, you are ignoring the questions.
Why did they not present their proposals for the Budget. That is
their responsibility as an opposition.
Why hide their proposals from the public before the election?
- gary/keith
i have asked
many times on the forum what a community officer is and does, i don't remember anyone explaining.
a standard officer apparently does little in the way of stopping minor offences as they are too busy with the murders and gang wars
in dover and p.c.s.o. officers do whatever the chief constable decrees but we will not know what they are. - Looking further at Mike Eddy's comments above one
assumes that Labour would have increased Council Tax and placed an extra burden on the public.
So does one assume in September we will see a supplementary Council Tax increase mid way thru. the year. - Kevin,
Thanks for the response. The turn up and go need not stop but by careful management and incentivisation it can be moved to a high majority booking system. The
volumes through Dover and the problems occur with un managed peak flows. Hence even short term disruption causes operation stack.
I’m sure any ferry company if asked would prefer to run at an average of 70% full managed rather
than 50% unmanaged.. They still have the same running costs if the ferry is 50% full or 70% full. It is after all a captive and growing market.
The comparison to airports is fair because both are about the logistics of moving
items (lorries or people) from a point of entry to a waiting carrier, through certain processes and checks.
I agree regarding the privatisation points you raised as they are a matter of record. The issue I have is the
comprehensively disingenuous way that DHB have approached all of this. From the privatisation through to T2. Which is not the most economic or efficient way to manage future growth. Not my assessment but that of there own consultant,
which they tried to bury in the consultants report.
I can see no other reason to attempt to mislead everyone, including potential investors, unless it is self interest. - paul
looking at the second line in your post it appears that you have already conceded defeat in the may elections.
this can only mean a chorus of "the red flag" should be sung. - Interesting points, Graham. Thank you for the clarification.
If your interpretation of the consultants report is indeed correct, then one assumes the experts at
the Department for Transport will weed out the misleading information and that this will have a bearing on the decision made by the minister, Theresa Villiers.
I'm also surprised that the ferry companies have not brought these
concerns to the table. I know they have complained about the tariffs charged by the port, but I am not aware of any complaints about the way in which the port manages capacity. - Kevin. The appropriate decision makers are aware of the detail hidden within DHB's own reports and have a report that summarises all of this. They have had an alternative
assessment since November 2010.
How they use that information is, however, down to politics as are so many things at this level. Logic and fact often come a poor second locally when a bigger picture is being explored.
My
own interest in all of this is how best Dover Town can benefit from whatever happens to the Port. It would be nice to see a reverse of many years when the only interest of the DDC and KCC appears (to me) to have been how best to support
the Port and not the Town. A very personal opinion, not necessarily a fact. - #7.56pm Nice bit of mischief making there Howard
;) - How can a balanced budget, a council Tax with NO increase and no frontline service cuts, be construed as bad for Dover poeple ?
We are getting ever closer to the
election in May and Labour are just starting up their scare campaign, with lies and innuendo.
The comments above from the two senior Labour District Councillors, would do the Grimm brothers credit.
If the good people of
Dover vote the Labour group in, we will have increase after increase in Council Tax and further cuts, not less.
Don't forget that the last time round, Labour were talking about increasing the Council tax by something like 8%, 8% and
6%. The figures may well have been higher. They also left a £750,000 black hole in the accounts.
The Conservatives have managed to keep the Council tax increases low (still the lowest in Kent) and now a nil percent increase.
The
general population are concerned about how much it will cost them and for Dover District's part of the Council Tax - no increase.
We must separate ourselves here with any other governing body: National or County.
Dover
District Council has for the last 8 years produced balanced budgets and no cuts in services, some have increased.
I would just say, don't listen to the lies and obfuscation of the Labour group and think about the future of the
District and Town of Dover; so many great things are about to take off, don't put them at risk by letting them back in.
Roger - I've never read such
rubbish - it's really not even worth a comment but let's see the details on the Eddy envelope.
If they take control they have already hinted that the Museum will be closed. They did accuse the Conservative of suggesting it but
it was never on the radar - in fact the Conservatives in power after May will be investing in the Museum and moving the Visitor Information Centre in there - all costed and in the budget and this is partnership working with the Town
Council so as a leading light on that, Gordon should have known these discussions were being held when he made the comment time and time again.
Did you also know that Labour are against the town area benefitting from any income
from the port - they voted against the referendum at full DDC Council last week?
So where will they get all this extra money from? They, through Eddy's fag packet - sorry, envelope, have an uncosted programme - didn't Harold
Wilson, the Labour PM, come to power with one of those and look what nearly happened then.
- Sounds like the Tories are running scared and are worried about
thier seats,we may it clear there will be a revised budget in September,and we decided it was not our job to tell Council what that would be.As David Cameron said we will look at the books and then look at the Budget.
But I can
tell you there will be no further reduction in the Museum hours or Jobs we believe in fairness to everyone as we will stand by that.This lot have cut cut and cut with no consultation at all,we heard from the C A B that they found out
that thier cut of £10,000 was given to them a day before the budget scruity yet Officers and Portfolio holders knew about this weeks/months ago.We dont need a lecture on budgets after all how much did you lose last year on a 'balanced'
not!budget
- I will help you here in the last 2 years this Council has lost £600,000 that was originally a balanced budget, so a balanced budget for next year is a figment of
someones imagination.We realise that things will be tough after all since the Tories have been in look what they have done to local Councils budgets. But as I see it there will be much more working with the Town and Parish Councils
rather than forcing them to take on things.The budget during next year wii not be drasically changed after all you can only work with what the Tories wii have brought in.
But somethings will change very quickly, yes smaller things
but mainly looking at the following years budget.We of course also do not take the electorate for granted and if it is thier wish on May 5th that we are the largest Party then we will work as hard as we can to produce what they
want. - John, I have to disagree with your comment, "we decided it was not our job to tell council..........". As an elected representative of your ward and residents it is your
job, and the job of every elected representative, to speak for your residents at council and in their best interests.
Of course if you only want to represent your party and only do anything if you have the majority and can push
through their view....................................................... - i think it is important that the reds publish their alternative budget prior to the
election so that we all can make up our minds who to vote for.
looking through the posts below there is a lot of scaremongering going on, this can only be alleviated by transparency in plans.
we all know that cuts are being
made and there will be further ones, let's see what the priorities are for the big two. - Last night there was an adjournment debate on the future of the Pfizer
site Laura Sandys MP and Charlie Elphicke MP were both in attendance. It is very encouraging that both raised the issue of poor rail services and should be commended for speaking up for East Kent and outlining the various urgent issues
now facing our communities.
tinyurl.com/64fj6cm
- Full policies should be on the table for the electorate to make a
informed decision, not sure the Conservatives would have been any more transparent if they had been in opposition though. - martin
you have hit the nail on the head with
the tories
ta - A feather in the cap of the Conservative Leader of DDC Paul Watkins in his quest to merge councils..see the following press
release. Paul pictured (as seen on TV) outside Pfizer at the peak of that particular crises.
* * *
NEW COUNCIL HOUSING MANAGEMENT ARRANGEMENTS APPROVED
Plans that will see a new
organisation take over the management of council housing in Dover District, with the aim of improving the service to tenants and leaseholders, have been given the final go-ahead.
The proposals were agreed on Wednesday 2 March at
a meeting of Full Council, which agreed to set up what is known as an ‘arms length management organisation’ (ALMO) called East Kent Housing. It will be managed jointly with three other councils in East Kent, (Canterbury, Shepway and
Thanet).
Tenants and leaseholders across East Kent gave the idea their broad support following an extensive consultation during summer 2010, and the proposals were also approved by the Tenant Services Authority earlier this year.
Dover District Council will remain as the owner and legal landlord of the council housing stock in the district, and tenants’ and leaseholders’ rights and responsibilities will be unchanged as a result of this.
East Kent
Housing will manage and maintain council homes across the four council areas and will have to achieve standards set by each council. The key aims are to involve tenants and leaseholders in the planned improvements for their housing
service.
East Kent Housing will be responsible for:
· Looking after council estates, including managing grass cutting, gardening contracts, cleaning and maintenance of communal areas
· Managing improvements to
tenants’ homes
· Collecting rent, and helping tenants who are having difficulty in paying
· Making sure that tenants stick to their tenancy agreements
· Involving and communicating with tenants, including producing
newsletters, leaflets and supporting community groups and activities
· Working with the police, the council and other agencies to reduce anti-social behaviour
· Re-letting empty properties, approving mutual exchanges and
changes to tenancies
· Running sheltered housing schemes and organising adaptations to the homes of tenants with disabilities.
Page 2
East Kent Housing will be run by a Board of people made up of four
tenants or leaseholders, four councillors who represent the four council areas, and four local independent people. They will oversee the day-to-day running and management of the organisation. The council’s current housing staff will
transfer to East Kent Housing and the usual contact details for them and repair contractors will remain the same in the new organisation.
Cllr Sue Chandler, DDC Cabinet Member for Community, Housing and Youth said:
“Joining services with our neighbours, we will be working together to get better services for our tenants and leaseholders and to make increasing savings. We hope that our tenants and leaseholders will continue to play a
large part in shaping the dedicated housing services that East Kent will deliver in the future. We are pleased that Dover District Council, with our neighbours, is leading the way in sharing services in this area.”
The
creation of East Kent Housing is part of an ongoing project to share services in East Kent to provide the best value for money to the taxpayer and make the best possible use of the councils’ resources and staff expertise.
Tenants
and leaseholders will be informed about how the new organisation will work through a dedicated local magazine which will be sent out at the end of March and through a new website. In the meantime, the latest information can be found on
the Council website at www.dover.gov.uk/sharedhousing
- ends - - PAULB
IT will be interesting to see the costs on this, but hey on paper it sounds
good.
REG
your unitary is on the way
bet you want it to come faster though don't you?
- I also said along time ago that some parish councils need to join up
with each other. - Hello there, you in the corner of the room. Tell me, do: Are you an Asian or an African Elephant?
Might savings be what those "lost due to natural
wastage" shall rely upon in the near future?
Perhaps the figures for job losses are out there already and done with.
- looking at this new housing
idea, i have my doubts over a few things. firstly the new organisation has to maintan standards set be each present council, seems rather complicated. secondly staff are being transferred from ddc to east kent housing, assuming this
applies to the other 3 councils there would be no cost saving. - Martin,
All our proposals are now budget approved with a couple of exceptions which are
waiting further info. on. But they will be within the overall totals agreed.
The papers are online.
How much more transparent do you want?
Howard, I concede nothing. I pose the question to the public in view of
the Eddy statements above.
If he thinks that setting a nil increase is wrong, we take it he will increase it if he were elected in his September budget. Tell the public. Don't go into an election conning the public.
Our
budget is published they refuse to discuss theirs for the public to consider. They can't use the old adage we will have to see the books because the books are there & open. - Immediately one Head of Housing not four Howard. Just a start.
- paul
my comment was a
jolly jape on the wording of your post of yesteday at 7.24, you may want to alter a word or two.
thanks for info on joint heads. - howard/paulw
thwse
questions i have replied to its for the labour group to comment further if they so wish.
please don't belittle the electorate paulw, as iv stated before the tories have done this in the past and im sure will do in the future
when they leave office in May as labour party are doing - Where is it that PaulW is belittling the public Keith, surely that is what Labour are doing - in a big way, have been
for years.
They scare them with innuendo not facts, hoping the electorate will be gullible enough to eat your words without digesting them.
We see at the Full Council meetings, the rubbish and lies that are shouted across
the floor. Shame on you all.
This election is extremely important to the people of Dover District and the future development of many sites will go to the wall if Labour,with their small minds get in.
Roger - ROGER
I have in other posts on other threads said how i have over years worked with many tory/and other parties for the greater good of the
District.
Although my personal viewpoint is that i woyuld prefer to have a Labour administration, that's not to say i would ever call conservatives SMALL MINDED they hold a different viewpoint, and that's
fine. - i doubt that words such as "rubbish" and "lies" add much to the debate.
let's hear the politicos putting forward their case instead of smearing each
other. - THANKYOU HOWARD
- As a matter of fact I think that sums up Labour's case nicely
Howard. - look further down this page barry and then tell me that everyone has come out looking good.
the reds have come out marginally worse as they refuse to
say how they would spend what money is available and what cuts they would make. - Roger.
Could you explain what are these future developments, many of which,
will go to the wall if Labour get in, please? - GARY(DEAL)
It's sad that Roger has decided to take a blinkered stand on this i to welcome his view point of stating all labour
cllrs are small minded, it's an insult which im sure they will all remember, and sad for local politics.
Thankyou for enlightening us how labour works with all parties - Keef DONT FORGET log in first or your posts will be on delay. When I looked now there were 3 waiting..yes THREE...they have now slipped down the page because of the delay(apart from one).
as you are a member you are
entitled to the full benefits of "LIVE" posting. LOG IN FIRST then no delay!! - paulb
it's fine i forget when im logged in or on or off lol
sorry
me old mucker
will try harder
lol - its a shame that the front page is bogged down with policitcal dogma.
- sadly brian,
theres election every 2 years (more sometimes)
- kieth,thats the dogma or should say
mess. - brian and keith
there is no problem with political debate here as their is an important election coming up.
really where it can go wrong is where people
are disrespectful and a bit insulting towards their opponents. - Mr Mc Sweeney I agree with you.
However, most, if not all, of the political posts are not
positive. They tend to be about what potential councillors, or current councillors, think about each others politics and often little to do with making positive changes for Dover.
I, like many others, do not want to read about
blame or possibilities. Give us some hard(ish) facts about what they are going to do to lift Dover. Many would like something to vote for and not against scaremongering. - HOWARD
100% agree - looks like everyone had an
enjoyable evening, spotted that comment about the lack of cotton goods that are fairtrade.
funnily enough i bought a cotton item from m & s today, have checked and it is not fairtrade, even though they stock a lot of fairtrade
stuff in the food hall. - howard,agreed but if we have elections every two [2] years as posted,its hardly enough time to get over the the last one.i am still
recovering from the dogma of the genreal elction.now 4 years apart would be better by holding both genreal and local at the same time,saves time and money and less stigma at the end of the
day. - District and Town elections are every four years, as are County, just not in the same year.
I'm sorry if my words offend Howard, but if you heard the nonsense
that is spouted from the Labour side (nothing to do with election year, they spout it all the time) you would come to the same conclusion.
I'm not saying that all Labour Councillors are small minded and tell lies and talk
rubbish, but those who do, know who they are.
I'm sorry Gary, I can't tell you, they are at a delicate stage of negotiations - and this is not nonsense, lies or
rubbish.
Roger - On the Fair-trade reception last night, Sue Jones the Mayor, did an excellant job, she really did.
A very good evening and to be honest, a
very good cause.
It is not true to say though that the District Council are not working to help the District Council be a FairTrade one.
There will be District Councillors who will sit on committees to move this forward -
they could be from all three parties, or two.
Sue, with her red nose on, went round collecting money for Red-Nose Day (what else ?); great humour - well done.
Roger
- Re Fairtrade: Roger 9 years though and still no advancement by the Dover District Council. Sure they are talking about it and have been trundling forward ever so slowly, but
its like a snail going uphill...9 years thats quite a long time with no obvious progress. The Dover Town Council have certainly pushed ahead with it. So why the delay with District?
Fairtrade is a good thing. Embraced quite well
by the Co-op shops but still other High St players are very slow to embrace it. Perhaps there isnt much of an appetite to do this. Perhaps there is no demand!!?
Howard M&S do Fairtrade coffee, as I buy it when in there, but how
much of their clothing is Fairtrade I dont know.
Any knowledgeable people out there on Fairtrade.. let us know more. Always interested. - buy my fairtrade
tea and coffee there paul, posh tipped me off on it.
the point i was making was that the food and drink area is well stocked with the produce, the same does not apply in the clothing area as far as i can see. - nice to see roger back tracking from ALL labour cllrs are small minded to SOME labour cllrs lie and are small minded.
Roger having served for 25 years i have to
say politicians from all the 3 parties could be given the same label, not a blinkered view like you pose.
For me, i like to encourage politicians i lean towards labour at the moment, but that said there are m,any tory cllrs that
work hard
it's a little sad roger you use such words and hold such blinkered views - Budgets,Manifestos and ``discretional spend``
The two main political partys prior to an election pontificate on the merits of their own manifesto compared to the other.
They spin ad nauseaum for weeks how they have a better grasp and superior knowledge of
finance/economics and how to spend our money.
The reality is when the millions of pounds of our money to provide public services to residents of Dover District has been allocated to mandatory/statutory services ( bearing in
mind even some of these services are to be offloaded to Town/Parish Councils ie.toilets,tourism plus etc ) there is only 5% of the budget remains (discretional spend ) for the political party in power to allocate.
Budgets are prepared by DDC officers.Dover District Council are officer led.
Because this results in a relatively small sum of our money it is pure folly for the two partys to exaggerate the importance of how their
administration will benefit the residents of DDC more than any other party.
When leader of Dover District Council the finance director advised me that after mandatory/statutory services costs (prepared by DDC officers ) my
group had a ``discretional spend `` of 8% of the budget to allocate.
Recently I asked DDC officers how much``discretional spend``will the ruling party have to allocate to their priority services in 2011/2012.
.
The
reply was Quote.
Reg,
Thanks for your e-mail. As you will appreciate, we don't have anyone still working in finance who was involved in the calculation to which you refer, so I could not guarantee that any work we did
would be on a consistent or comparable basis.
If we were to undertake this calculation we would need to consider a number of factors including :-
does this include expenditure in what is now the Housing Revenue Account
does it include capital expenditure
is it confined to the General Fund revenue budget
how do we define what is mandatory :-
is it statutory spend only? If so, to what level i.e. if we have to do planning, how many
planners do we employ within the "statutory" definition
how do we treat expenditure within trading accounts that are required to break even, such as building control
how do we treat central support costs charged to the HRA and
capital programme.
where we have contracted spend, we have no short term control over the total. Waste collection is a good example - we have just signed a new contract including new recycling methods. We probably exceed our mandatory
service requirements, but we cannot simply reduce expenditure which is part of a 3 way inter authority agreement.
There will be other issues to resolve, but I hope this gives a reasonable indication as to why I don't think it will be
a simple matter to put a figure on the "discretionary spend" for the 2011/12 budget
Unquote
If the DDC officers do not know what the ``discretional spend`` amount is.....how do the politicians??
The good news is when we have an East Kent Council the ``discretional spend`` will be considerable and we could be in a ``cuts free zone``
- reg
I wonder
what the politicians of the 2 major and other parties realy think on a unitary authority.
This should not be based on who would get control on any new unitary authority which appears to be the case when this raised its head the
last time.
I wonder if the main political parties support the move towards a unitary? - Keith, if the option was on the table, my answer to you would be yes. I have made
this statement on many occasions, irrespective of political control. - im, pleased then paulwyou have moved from your position the last time it was
raised then.
And should it become a reality again, that politicals doesnt come into it as it did last time
and that the 2 major parties sort out differences before it goes to consultation and go with a unified
voice - Paul W.
Charlie and you need to convince Eric Pickles. - keith
will you PLEASE log
in before posting, i was on the verge of logging off for the evening, your post would have been lost half a mile down the front page. - worth scrolling down 5 posts
to read what reg has to say, a lot of stuff was posted at the same time, so the item may be missed by some. - We are deep in the mire, because some so called
adults, from all parties, have stopped actually listening, talking, considering, negotiating, compromising and caring about what is actually going on around them.
Common sense has been rocketed to the moon and a trend of dummy
spitting,tit for tat, politics is thriving.
Who is going to make the first step, open their eyes and see the damage that is being heaped on this country and all the people in it?
- And you will still vote for type in your tribal way Gary.
Whether it is right for the country or not. - not my interpretation of what gary said, he came across as critical of the main parties in general.
having said that the majority of people vote in a "tribal" way as evidenced
by places like henley on thames and west ham.
it is up to the clever people in the big parties to put together a case that will entice the rest of us to vote for them. - PaulW.
I am saying things have to change and i did say some from All parties.
Whether it is right for the country or not, is up to each of us to choose.
"enemy within" "tribal" what next? - Paul the " vote for type in your tribal way" comment is below the belt and adds nothing to your
argument. - Voting for your party "right or wrong" has always been the case.
Areas like Buckland and St. Rads will always vote Labour and some like St. Margarets and
Walmer have always voted Conservative.
Why do Conservative councillors get elected in these nice, good quality areas ? Do they work harder for their electorate to keep everywhere looking good; do Labour councillors work less hard
for their areas and that 's why there's so much litter and poor housing etc. there ?
Please note this was a question not a statement.
They vote for them because they feel that they will represent them better and fight to keep
their area as it is. If this is true, then why doesn't the poor areas vote for Conservative councillors, to help raise the qualitry of their lives and their areas ?
You can't say that Councillors know what their electorate are
suffering on a daily basis, they can't/don't empathise, because many of them do not live in the wards they represent, but in much more wealthy areas, like River.
Even Labour MPs have no idea what it's like to be poor or have
no, or a bad education, as many come from rich families and attended universities.
The vast majority of people vote in a traditional way and the "floaters" change governments.
People who normally vote Labour, will not be
thinking "I'll vote Conservative because I know they can look after finances so much better than labour (which they can obviously - locally and Nationally), or because their ability to think outside the box, their strategy on
regeneration etc. and will really improve my area".
This works the other way round of course, so Gary's argument about putting our collective heads together, would not be done because both sides think the othe side is useless
and therefore wrong. - GARY(DEAL)
I agree, as howard does the politicians need to look outside the box,
It's quite sad the words being banded about at the moment just
because of a difference of opinion. - A very good posting there Roger .
- Roger I am not sure what you are trying
to say,but I am not from a rich family my Dad left home when I was 11 and didnt go to Uni I was a secondary School lad,but I am luckier than most of the people in my ward,so I try and help them.
I have a job and even when I left
school worked on the fields,I have never been unemployed,havent had a day off sick in 12 years and I am just a regular bloke,but I realise that some people arent as lucky as me,and I will fight for a better Council,facilities and life
for them.
Not all people in Tower Hamlets are Labour supporters,but because I am seen and work in that area they respect that and some vote for me.I know one Tory Cllr who's friends live in TH and when asked who they should vote
for they were told vote for me,because I work hard.That is very nice but then along comes Central Goverment and makes 1 silly law and everybody wants to vote on national issues not what is best for their
communities. - But the rest of your posting is why people will vote for Labour at the Council elections,Conservatives will make your area nicer,we will look after your finances
better,we will get rid of your mess and bad housing,in the Labour Group as in the Tories we have a collection of Individuals that can do a job.You have run the Council have you sorted out thier mess,NO! sorted out thier housing No made
the area nicer NO! I can remember arguing for a Dog waste bin in Astor Avenue and being told I can't have one,then the Portfoilio holder looked down his nose and said I didnt realise that Dod S**t problem was worse in TH than anywhere
else.It isnt but in TH ward we have close to 3000 students many walking to School.
Then I look at your Ward Roger,it has dirtier streets and worse housing than in TH no doubt you will blame the Labour Cllrs in that ward,no it is
your ward,your Tory Council Your Tory Goverment and as much as I like you Roger the electorate will probably thank you in May by kicking you out,It is a tough old world and what others do like Council's Goverments may mean you loose
your Council Ward,I hope not as I like you and like some of your ideas but that is what happens.
I would take Mike Eddy as a financial expert over any of the Tory Cabinet - ROGER/SUE
(MORE SO ROGER!!!)
You wouldn't expect me to agree with your posting, and if that were the case on your posting yu wouldnt be a cllr.
anyway looking at the posting the background of Labour/tory
etc have got so muddied since our maggie that its very difficult at times for the every day person not involved in politics to see the difference between the two.
both have gone for the middle England vote, blair did, now cameron
is.
as is our ed.,
we could have a long drawn out debate about why some council estates dont seem to care, but thats a realy long thread and maybe get into that one another time.
It's a little sad ROGER that your still
holding outdated views, as iv stated on here before today, iv worked with you over the years, and dont think we had to many problems, sue we had many agreements on often both challengng both the labour and tory leaderships, for the
good of the district.
There are some very good tory cllrs MP's so i would not class them all as USELESS, i may not agree with there views, but ythats up for challenge.
we have also seen hiccups locally when people
dont feel there cllrs represent them,
once such being in the safe tory ward(castle) as you would call it, where the tory lost his seat to labour
hyou will also recall i took the kcc seat in what yuou would call a safe tory area
dover west, where tories were fighting other tories to stop a particular tory getting elected.
so there are blips to your views
but most importantly i praise anyone who puts themselves forward for councils its a fairly
thankless task, time consuming, but you get little wins that make it worthwhile.
to see the wins keeps you going
and yes working on committee's or in the community with other parties or even non political persons has lots
of advantages.
My door was never closed - JHG - Mike Eddy is/was an archeaologist and I have no doubt a very good one but I was not aware that he has any particular
financial expertese/training or experience. So by what measure do you claim him a financial expert? - My post was aimed at politics/politicians over many years, not
just at todays. In my view it started with her and heightened by Blair and it’s been getting worse ever since.
Roger,
The last sentence in your post has to be done. Only by putting your collective heads together, stop thinking
both sides are useless and therefore wrong, will this country move forward for the better for everyone.
Of course harmony will never exist, that is not what I am saying.
What I am saying is something has to change.
Our leaders
from top to bottom need to stop, look around and see what really is happening. They need to take each other seriously, act like adults and start working with each other, not against each
other.
- looks like john and keith have respect for some of their political opponents so there is some hope for the future of dover district.
for the life of
me i cannot understand why party dogma has any part to play in the vast majority of local issues. - Ooops. Bit of a mix up this week sees an advert placed over the
top of my budget follow up (was supposed to be page 32).
I have now moved the article to the dover page of our website if anyone wants to read it. Basically what was agreed was laid out in our page 2 report last month following the
DDC Cabinet meeting - HOWARD;
Since the formation of Doveforum i have highlighted many ways that I, and other political parties worked closely together.
we had
a long debate on here where sue and i worked closely together on public transport(sadly abolished by our nigel) - Howard I have a respect for any one who stands for Council no
matter what party,where I may not always agree with them we normally get on.
What I do not like is fellow Cllrs telling us where we are going wrong when they are blinkered and insist that thier way is always right and they know better
than the general public.
Barry having seen and worked with Mike for 4 years and yes he is an archeaologist I have seen him work with the budgets and I will back him,yes he is not a full time Financial expert,like the bankers who are
of course and they are always right arent they!Look at what they did to us!
I work at the train station but consider that I have other talents as well no one can put on fund raisers like me of
course.lol
- It might be a good idea if SOME of our councillors remembered that not all Labour voters live in the poorer areas and not all of those that live in more expensive
areas vote Tory.
Times have changed many voters no longer follow what their parents voted, we have brains, we think for ourselves and vote for who we consider will be the best to represent us.
- john
your impressario talents make you a legend in your own lunchtime.
we all look forward to your next presentation, assuming it is not him again. - Been looking Howard...but can't do much with the elections coming up,some people might take it the wrong way....Did look at Gilbert O'sullivan and made an enquiry,16
piece group oops a bit big and cost.....thought about digging up Tommy Cooper just like that!
I have been contacted about by an agent with one of the former members of Lindisfarne touring next year and Gordon Giltrap but not sure if
you would appreciate that music.... - john
you forgot to mention val doonican!!
there was a doumentary on the other night about the old days of variety, the glasgow
empire was the graveyard of comedians.
the first time ken dodd performed there he looked down at the stone faced audiece and said "you must be wondering why i called you all here". - JAN H
you are correct there, big time,
exactly what i tried to indicate in another posting
we should not label people.
john give me a bell mate you can
get my mobile from paulb hopefully - The Hotel looks beautiful.
The owners have really pushed the boat out to make Dover very proud that we can offer this level of
quality.
Congratulations.
Roger - Love the Hotel, I used to work for best weston in my teens in the midlands they were always a good firm and looked
after their staff. - looks very stylish indeed, interesting to see they have an ice cream parlour, will do great business in the summer season.
- Yes all looks very posh going by the above picture, look forward to an opening visit, certainly a visit to the ice cream parlour will be a must.
- I watch the debate on DHB and the Peoples Port with interest. There is certainly some lively debate. However, there seems to be a lot of unanswered questions and given
that we are supposed to vote on whether we "oppose" the DHB scheme and therefore support the Peoples Port plan, I think there are many many questions left unanswered - or vaguely hinted at. I've a few more to ask:
What will
the Peoples Port Trust Board's role be if the Scheme "wins"?
Will they be paid - and on what basis - and, in fact, are they being paid at the moment?
What will Algy and Pat get out of this (don't tell me that they are doing it
for free.... there's no such thing as a free lunch)
What experience and qualifications have the encumbents of the Trust got of running a multi million pound business?
In particular, Mr Wiggins - tell us where you have worked, who
for, what your role was and what part you played in "buying a selling ports"?? - Hello Lone Ranger..you ask some good questions there but we really would prefer your
name as we are unlikely to use pseudynoms anymore.
we cant expect Mr Wiggins to tackle the reply like this....
Dear Lone Ranger
With regard the Port...etc etc
you see the
difficulty. - who was that masked man and how can we thank him?
you will find all the answers on the "referendum" thread, mr wiggins history is well
known. - Thanks Paul - name duly supplied!
Sorry Howard those questions are NOT answered in the thread, so I'd still prefer Mr Wiggins to respond to
them.
If we are to vote for the People's Port, we need to have cards on the table and I still don't see that they are. 
neil
in town this morning leafleting the public.
charlie putting over the peoples port case in town.- Wow! That is a fabulous design of the dining area for the New Hotel, it reminds me of the interior of a dining carriage on the Orient Express albeit much bigger of course,
I can just see Inspector Poirot preening his fine moustache.
Looking forward to my first visit and who knows perhaps I may even have a spa, they will probably do a spa package, hint, hint, Big Birthday coming
up. - What will the Peoples Port Trust Board's role be if the Scheme "wins"?
The role that the board of directors will play will be much the same as the role
played by the boards of John Lewis Partners and the Co-Op within their own organisations.
Will they be paid - and on what basis - and, in fact, are they being paid at the moment?
Board members are not paid at the moment. If
the transfer of ownership of the port to the communities of Dover is successful, then most board members will be non-executive. Non executive directors will be re-imbursed reasonable expenses for attendance at board meetings, general
meetings and special general meetings. Non-Executive positions will not attract a salary. Any executive roles will be salaried in accordance with position/responsibility and the decision of a remuneration sub-committee of the
board.
What will Algy and Pat get out of this (don't tell me that they are doing it for free.... there's no such thing as a free lunch)
Neither Sir Patrick or Algy Cluff have expressed to me their desire to achieve any
financial return. Both gentlemen have a keen sense for our heritage and have been affronted by the possibility that it might be sold out from under us. As far as I am aware both of them share the same passion as I do to achieve the best
possible result for the people of Dover and its communities and see this community ownership model as the best way to achieve the best result for Dover.
rest of answers to follow - some very good story tellers on this page.
- VIC;
I realise you don't
support the p/port propsal but i do believe that neil and his club have firm beliefs/intentions in there proposal.
At the moment I try to be constructive in my view point, i try to bre respectful that they have a view by laying
down some questions as many have.
I personally am still not convinced, but i like to get into grown up debate. - vic
keith is right here, we need constructive
dialogue on such an important issue.
your post did not fit into that category. - What experience and qualifications have the encumbents of the Trust got of
running a multi million pound business?
The experience and qualifications of Sir Patrick and Algy Cluff in this regard are a matter of public record and can easily be researched and obtained.
I have board level experience
in Asia at ports in Southern China and HongKong (Shekou, Yantian, COSCO-HIT), all multi-million port and terminal enterprises, was GM Marine operations responsible for multi-million pound assets, expenditure and revenue
retention.
Pat Sherratt was responsible for multi-million pound budgets when he worked in the ferry industry.
David Foley is currently CEO of the Chamber of Commerce and his knowledge and experience is also a matter of
public record.
Bob Markham is a former mayor of Dover and, again, his record is also a matter of public record.
Peter Garstin, as a merchant banker, was responsible for multi-million pound projects and
transactions.
In particular, Mr Wiggins - tell us where you have worked, who for, what your role was and what part you played in "buying a selling ports"??
Derek, the answer to this last is already partly above. I will
expand a little bit below, but a career in the maritime sector spanning 27+ years would take too much space if I were not to summarise considerably.
From DGSB I went to sea with Houlder Brothers who soon disappeared as part of the
Furness Withy (Shipping) Group. I qualified and served as a navigation officer deep sea (qualifying at 19yrs old with my first appointment following immediately post qualification).
I came ashore as the UK Flagged fleet disappeared
beneath my feet to work for Furness Withy Terminals at the Port of Felixstowe in Operations Control and management at Walton Container Terminal.
When Hutchison Whampoa bought the P&O stake in the port and Furness Withy Terminals
merged their holding into the new Port of Felixstowe Ltd. I transferred to the new organisation and was promoted.
From Felixstowe I was recruited by the COSCO (HKG) Group to provide port and terminal operations management expertise to
them as Projects manager. In this role I was involved in the set-up, registration and corporate design of a new wholly owned subsidiary of the group and the transfer and purchase of an ownership stake in the port of Zhangjiagang from P&O
ports to this new entity. Also as Projects manager I was the group's nominee director on the boards of Shekou, Yantian and COSCO-HIT. Additionally, it was my job to investigate and assess potential new port investments on behalf of the
Group for operational viability, ultimate throughput capacity and additional development potential and to report to the President of the group directly with financial and operational assessments including estimated ROI. Projects ranged
in size from US$60m to US$190m and in geographical scope from India and Thailand to Australia and the West Coast of North America. Furthermore, as Projects manager I developed Key Performance Indicators and a reporting regime for
existing port assets. Before leaving the Group I was, as projects manager, intimately involved in the sale and transfer for cash and shares, the Group's entire Port asset portfolio to COSCO Pacific which has since become one of the
biggest port operating companies in the world.
I left the COSCO (HKG) Group to work for ICTSI as Operations Development Consultant where I evaluated projects in Brunei and Dubai and was tasked with delivering a US$100m new port
project in Batangas Province from conceptual documentation to operations through a turbulent period of financial crisis in Asia.
Shortly after my family and I returned to the UK I went to work for CP Ships where I ended as GM Marine
Operations and Chairman of the Round The World Operations Committee (A Vessel sharing agreement between PONL, CPShips, Hapag Lloyd, CMA-CGM, Marfret and Hamburg Sud). My responsibilities included but were not limited to port tariff
negotiations and agreements, vessel routeing, port coverage, being in charge of a team of vessel operators responsible for on board stowage of cargo and maximising load factors with offices in Australia and the US reporting to me on
matters of port operations, scheduling, cost control and cargo optimisation....there is much more, but you'll all be bored by now:)
When CP Ships were bought by Hapag Lloyd I chose not to transfer to Hamburg. During the purchase
process I was a significant member of the integration team tasked with handing over service loops to Hapag Lloyd in Hamburg and providing insight and expertise to the new owners. Once my tasks in this respect were completed I returned to
the UK and started up my own business in July 2006 providing marine operations services to the owner of one container vessel initially. Four years later my company IVOPS Ltd. although still quite small, provides a full suite of marine
operations services and advice to the owners of a fleet of 10 container vessels ranging in size from 1800TEU to 5000TEU and engaged on trades from India, through Europe, to the East Coast of the USA, Caribbean, Central and South America
to the Pacific Islands and Australasia. I have also appeared as a lecturer for Lloyds Maritime Academy on Key Performance Indicators and port performance and quality improvement. My company also provides training and mentoring to port
operations staff and managers in the emerging markets of the Middle East, North Africa and India and advice on delivery of quality operations and programmes for continuous improvement in operations. I have also in the last two years been
recognised by the Global Institute of Logistics (an international ports and logistics think tank) and have worked with them from a seat on their Hamburg Committee on the further development and delivery of the CTQI (Container Terminal
Quality Indicator).
I'm sorry if this is all a bit long, but I hope that it answers your questions fully Derek. - Vic,
I have
answered every question put to me about DPPT and people's roles within it, openly and honestly, without embellishment. I respect the fact that some people have honest doubts and honest questions and treat these by considering all
questions and doubts expressed as honest ones, until proven otherwise, by answering each and every one as fully and honestly as my intellect and personal knowledge allows. I trust that by so doing people may be persuaded of the benefits
of community ownership of the port through the vehicle the DPPT of which I am chairman.
I respect very much that your view and opinion on the viable long term future of the port differs considerably from my own and that you hold
your views honestly and I believe that you would not resort to supporting them with storytelling. - Ok ,I was some what out of order ,it is a
age thing,wait till you get there like me. - Mr. Neil Wiggins, chairman of the Dover People's Port Trust Ltd, I'd like to make the following observation:
On
the Dover People's Port Trust website, it is written on the front page: "We have established a community trust - the Dover People's Port Trust Limited".
I found out the following information about the referendum:
"The
wording of the question on the referendum will be: Do you oppose the private sale of the Port of Dover as proposed by Dover Harbour Board and support its transfer to the community of Dover instead?"
A similar statement, on the
DPPT website, has this wording regards the motion in the Town Hall that took place last week:
"A public meeting at Dover Town Hall on Thursday 3 March (6pm) can vote to require a referendum on whether the port should be owned by
the Dover community, or be sold off overseas"
There is a mischievous play of words here, and likewise in the wording of the referendum that is supposed to be held, as the electorate of Dover is being misled into believing that
the wording: "community of Dover" refers to the people of Dover and its official local government authorities, ie the Councils, or one of the Councils (DTC or DDC), when in reality you are referring to yourself and your private trust
as the community of Dover.
A self-appointed community and all!
Please note the words: private trust, and, self-appointed! - I would say I don't agree with many
of Mr Matchams points of view but I take my hat off to him for his prompt and polite response to Neil Wiggins. - My view is that, anyone in Dover who is not in favour
of the privatisation of Dover Harbour Board as established by royal charter, should not participate in your referendum, for if they did, they would be voting either way for Port privatisation.
The DPPT is a private group, set up
privately, that is trying to cancel the royal charter status of Dover Harbour Board. - Alexander,
The question means what it says...There may be viable forms of
community ownership other than DPPT which answer the port's need for major investment and the communities expressed concerns in one package and the referendum question keeps the door open for them to emerge.
DPPT is seeking to
mislead no one and is quite clear in stating that it believes that it has the constitution and ownership profile that will best represent the communities of Dover in gaining ownership of the port. It could well be however that another
community owned organisation emerges which enables the port to raise money for major investment whilst respecting all of its stakeholders and answering the concerns of the communities of Dover with regard to future development, jobs,
training, heritage, etc. and brings a significant seed fund for regeneration to the townsfolk. If one does, then the answer to the referendum question would suit them as well.
I know that you diagree with me and with the fact of
DPPT Alexander, and that is fine. I also know, from postings so far, that it is unlikely that we will ever agree on this matter. You are quite welcome to campaign in favour of DTC or DDC or KCC or the National Government or some other
community body taking ownership on behalf of the community so long as the message that the People of Dover wish their port to be transferred to ownership by the communities of Dover gets through to government. Just as I am campaigning
for the communities of Dover to own the port directly through their membership of DPPT.
In the meantime it is very important that the maximum number of people turn out to vote at the referendum on the question posed in the
referendum so that the message goes to London loud and clear about where Dovorians want ownership to lay.....with private equity or with the community (howsoever you might wish to define community ownership). My key priority through this
entire process is that Dover and the communities of Dover are winners.
If the Government decide not to sell the port to private equity, then they, the government, will lay out criteria for community or national ownership or
instruct that the status quo be maintained.
The Status quo, in my view, most likely means more of the same for Dover, the reduction of major port infrastructure development, no regeneration fund and then in 5 years time back to
the same old same old round of consultations in the run up to a proposed sell off by a new executive at the port and a new government in Westminster.
I'll let you find out for yourself the true implications for port development,
growth and regeneration, of ownership by DTC, DDC, KCC or National Government on behalf of the community (I looked into all of these options when I started working on all of this more than a year ago) because I think that you would
mistrust my findings in this regard
- Vic,
I wish you nothing but good.
This age thing will come to us all sooner or
later.
Neil - Neil,
You have gone way beyond Paretto's principle and are now in the zone of nil return with Alexander. (Sad but
true)
Your effort to explain the facts to the rest of us are much appreciateed tho'. Even as a supporter I have learn't quite a lot more from your postings, which gives me more comfort on the whole DPPT issue. - Please never say Status Quo ,that name still gives me nightmares.
- Please never say Status Quo ,that name
still gives me nightmares. - I Promise never to use those words in your hearing (or seeing) again.
- Well I think you know the story behind it,but I was only joking anyway.
- Neil, I don't doubt that you are a member of the community as we all are, and your
aspirations that Dover and Kent receive a better deal from Dover Port.
In fact I have made a proposal to the Secretary of State in my representation that would bring in Port revenues to Dover.
This may be a little long, but
I will keep it concise.
As we both have made representations to the Government designated office during the consultation period, may-be it would be possible to arrange an agreement.
But the referendum's wording is the big
obstacle in this, not the idea of a referendum as such.
However, my representation proposes that Britain has a fair trade and commerce policy in line with European countries, as far as transport is concerned.
We do not have
a motorway toll, and other countries do, and earn billions of pounds (or equivalent currency) through it, which enables them to finance local projects, including the construction of tunnels, bridges and road-maintenance.
Some
countries have also expensive tunnel tolls to add, for example Switzerland and France.
We in Britain should have at least a port toll to partially compensate for this, and it would not be in any way hostile to European countries,
but in line with their own policy (port toll = equivalent to motorway toll by approximation).
My proposal is that all British ports have this port-toll, in equal measure, which would include Dover and the Channel Tunnel. It so
happens that my proposal of £5 per car corresponds to what KCC has proposed to the Government. I also have proposed £50 per HGV (this sounds a lot, but is less than what an HGV pays to transit through one Alpine tunnel, and is
reasonable!)
All the more reason that such added income would finance new port infrastructure that is essential to trade and commerce, and also help finance road maintenance.
My proposal to the Secretary of State for
Transport is that 10% of a port toll revenue go to the Town Council (or equivalent if a city), 30% to District Council, 30% to County Council, and 30% to national Treasury.
This would annul any risk of unfair competition between
ports, as it would apply to all British ports equally (including the Channel Tunnel, for example).
KCC also proposes a port toll on HGV, but I do not know to what extent. The proposal of KCC became public at the end of last year,
my proposal precedes it by about 6 months, and this is proof that the two proposals are independent from each other but convene on the same necessity to have a port-toll.
In my representation to London, the existing port
revenues going to DHB would remain intact.
I also noted in it, that Councils receiving a share in such port toll revenue would need considerably less Government grants, or even no Government grants at all, to finance their own
budget.
The idea would make unnecessary any form of Dover port-privatisation, and would bring in prosperity to Dover, District and Kent. As well as to other commercial port-towns and cities in Britain.
May-be you can
understand now why I have been stating that the DPPT proposal is not the only option to the DHB privatisation proposal.
The Secretary of State for Transport is taking my representation into consideration, as I have been thus
informed from London.
If you would like to consider this, before the referendum, possibly a new wording could be put to the referendum, and possibly even a meeting with Mr. Paul Carter of KCC could be arranged in regards.
An agreement on this, on different proposals which all aim at bringing prosperity to Dover and Kent, could substantially be a good basis for a local referendum to help bring the point over to
Gov. - re. the Peoples Port.
Watch out for the carpetbaggers and spivs and prepare to say goodbye to the Wellington Dock , Granville Dock and Inner Harbour. Goodbye to the
remains of the Prince of Wales Pier also. Prepare for even more 24 hour noise and pollution and more night light pollution. Watch the history and heritage of the western end of our harbour disappear in the name of progress and
"hundreds of new jobs" Which reminds me; how many new jobs were created by the redevelopment of Old Park Barracks and the "Port Zone"as promised by DHB? - such a
optimist mr smith.lol. - For some reason I cannot get Monty Pythons "Always look on the bright side of life" out of my head when I read the two posts by Colin and
Alexander.
Sunday morning seems much brighter to me now. - Vic when you said you were arranging something for Mr Farage's visit I naturally thought you were
inviting your friends Status Quo to entertain him. No??
- I have to admit that I don't fully understand everything about the sell off of the port but this morning I
have read all the posts from Neil Wiggins and it has begun to be more clear now. Here is a man who knows exactly was he's talking about, informs in a way we all can understand and there are no silly comments or childish remarks
involved. He answers our questions and keeps us informed. Thank you Neil, whatever you say is best I will vote for, you are one of a very few posting here that knows what he's talking
about. - I have a correction to make on my "History" bit in answer to Derek. I was actually just 20 when I qualified and got my first assignment as a Deck Officer, not 19 as I
wrote below. I checked the date on my ticket and discharge book and whilst I'm at Ashford Hospital waiting on the early birth of my first grandson, I thought I'd take the time to make the correction. - Good luck with the first grandson Neil, hope all goes well for mum and baby. Our 7th grandchild (a girl) is due any day now and I can't wait. Being a grandparent is a
wonderfull (if expensive lol) thing and you will love it as I do!! x - Good to see Colin Smith posting, must catch up for a natter mate.
- JACQUI
I'm pleased you have found good reason to vote for thepeoples port even if your notr sure what your voting for.
Of course that's demoracy and your right.
There
are other posters who still remain neither for or against the proposal, so it's not about neil knowing everything, he does have knowledge as he is puhing the case, which is right.
but never the less there are differences of
opinion and thats what the forum is all about, (hopefully) - Keith I agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion. As you say people will vote as they wish. You are one of
the sensible posters on here its those that make silly comments on what is a very serious subject that annoy me. - JACQUI
The forum is made up of many differing opinions.
whilst i may not agree with some of them, i do look to encourage as many people as possible to post, its healthy.
You are correct the subject could not be more serious, and that's one of the reason's at this point in time i'm
unwilling to support the peoples port proposal,
It gives me a dilema as i also don't support the DHB privatisation proposal. - Have put the photo's taken at the Travel
& Leisure Show today on the Carnival Spirit post on the Members Forum. Lots of Dover Stands to network with.
Thanks xx - Interesting way you phrased a post below speaking to Jacquie, in response to her voiced support for The People's Port.
I think she does know what she is voting for, even though she may not understand the minutae of all
the details.
The truth is that is perfectly normal and reasonable. What is important to do is to look at the proposals 'in the round' and if you support the aims and objectives, if you believe those behind the proposals know
what they are talking about - then support them.
Look at it this way. I dont have much of an idea of how a car works, but I know what its supposed to do and place my trust that those making it know what they are doing. I have
no idea at all how to make one and I certainly could not repair one but I have frequently placed my life and that of my family at risk in using one. It is exactly the same here.
There is enough information about the People's
Port to be able to decide whether to support it, plently of information. Most people, I would suggest, will not understand the minutae but that is not important at all.
- BARRYW
You continue to think that because people differ from your view that they don't understand, on the peoples port which is far from the truth.
Every one has a
right to an opinion and you should not underestimate peoples knowledge onhe peoples port/DHB proposals.
In my postings I have not unestimated neil's views on his proposal, nor said he doesn't understand his view
points,
mine has been constructive debate.
If the aim of the peoples port is to get lots more YES votes then to indicate people don't understand won't help - You
can see that is not what I am saying there Keith.
Note my third sentence where I said 'if you support the aims and objectives'. Do try to read posts properly. - barryw
have gone over this as others have
we will agree to disagree
- I have nothing more to say about the port ,you all know what side I stand on this,so
it is wait and see what happens later in the year,if it is sold off but it is not to late to see a u turn on that,I think the D.H.B. will come out the winner. - Keith -
we will always disagree over a great deal but we would have better conversations if we actually discussed what was said, not what you think was said.
I was making a point that people do not have to understand the intimate details
of the Port plan to decide whether they want to support it.
We make decisions on driving cars without knowing how they are built, buy televisions without knowing exactly how they work etc etc....
in respect of the
Port....
I am suggesting that all we need to do is to decide if we agree with the aims and objectives of the People's Port or not and if we believe that those behind it have the right kind of experience and knowledge
required.
I believe that these specific issues have been set out before us clearly thanks to Neil, Peter and others and therefore we all have enough knowledge to make a descision to vote in the 'Parish Poll'.
Remember the
poll is not binding and if the government thought that there were serious technical issues about the proposal that are problematical, it would not be in their interests for them to proceed regardless of the outcome of the vote unless
such issues were resolved.
Therefore we do not need to dot the i and cross the t for this vote. The vote is just to put pressure on the government in support of a community buy-out instead of the only other option on the table,
the DHB sell-off to the highest bidder.
This is a far more interesting and relevant conversation to have than your usual digs at me partly due to your mis-reading/incorrect interpretation of what I said. - baz;
yes we will disagree and agree now and again
thats what the forum is all about.
I think it fair a number of people including myself have outlined some of
our concerns and there are others, and so as not to appear to negative i felt it better that the peoples port proposal be given time to explain the issues,
I have attempted to remain neutral and will make up my mind
iv given my present view on both the peoples port and DHB proposals.
- There is another option for the Government in all this privatisation/peoples port
business and that is to remain a Trust Port, my preferred option and that of many employed at the Port. - that will not happen martin the chancellor wants some money in the
exchequer. - Barry, Neil has been very clear and to the point, and has explained well. I understand the people's port issue.
And also the DHB privatisation
issue.
As the wording of the referendum specifically asks people to vote either for one or the other option, I will not take part in the referendum, as I do not want either of these options.
This might be the view of many
people in Dover, so if the referendum goes through, what will count is not so much the percentage of "yes" or "no" votes, but the number of people who actually vote at all in the referendum as it is presently worded.
As
previously stated, the DPPT is not the only option to DHB privatisation. - Martin deal, I am on the fence with this one keeping it as a trust port dose that mean it can never
be sold to other parties. - PaulB
What an interesting Front Page thank you and well done to those who are doing all the conservation work.
I expect someone
here will be able to identify the unnamed captain.
- this all sounds fascinating, will look forward to seeing more memorabilia as and when it comes available.
- Here are the archivists at work, or three of the four of them anyway..The four archivists working on the project are Chris Knight, Bob
Wainright, Andy Rintoul and father Ian Rintoul.
- Good to see the above pictures.
Re the one with Catherine Zeta Jones and Pam Ferris.
Not
at the Cruise Terminal.
This is actually on the Eastern Arm on the day (Spring 1991) that the Stena Challenger and Stena Invicta (former Peder Paars) were named and had their "god-parent". If memory is correct Catherine Zeta
Jones as Godparent of Stena Challenger and Pam Ferris Godparent of Stena Invicta - Very interesting observation there Pat re the cruise terminal and Catherine Zeta Jones.
Tell us more, how do you know all that..where you there on the day? - I was on the Stena Invicta for her entire service in Dover, from 1991 to 1998, a lovely
ship, very fond memories. Unfortunately I was not onboard for the naming ceremony. I would like to think that may be my steaming bonnet (uniform cap) that Catherine Zeta Jones is waving and saying plaintively "Where is he? Where is
he?"
Re the DHB photo album archive. Full marks to the chaps scanning the photos. I do hope that they will be putting them on a website for us all to be able to access. - EAST KENT COUNCIL.
JHG.
The Shepway council tax is yet another reason for an East Kent council as it will produce a unified rate of tax for East Kent.Shepway will be happy with that because council tax will be lower
than present council taxes due to economies of scale and only one executive/management instead of four and a slightly reduced staff at the work faces.
The economies of scale to be calculated have to be completed on a large piece of
paper not on the back of an envelope!
John are you confirming the Local Labour Party are opposed/against an East Kent Council.
Ross.
Difficult decisions have to be made anyway.
Howard.
East Kent Council
will be a reality.What ever happens in between will produce upheaval/change.
The severe job losses will only be at executive/management level not staff at workface.Scaremongering will not help the transition.
PW/Roger.
Time for fiddling at the edges,piece by piece changes year after year are over.It is time to progress to an East Kent Council.You and your colleagues and Charlie need to speak to Mr.Pickles or his successor! - Reg, why not just a Kent Council, comprising East and West? It would be even cheaper than two Kent Councils, and preserve the unity of Kent, avoiding a fence going up
halfway through the Garden! - Why! Yes of course, the lovely Catherine was anxiously waiting for you to turn up Ed and whisk her of to a romantic lunch for two lol!
Great photos, nice to see these up on the Forum. Well done to the guys scanning them all, would be good to see them on a dedicated website for all to enjoy. - i
think you are being over optmimistic reg, there will be job losses at below management level hopefully through natural wastage rather than redundancies.
maybe not immediately but certainly over the next few years. - Latest News just in from DDC........Hot off the wire... PFIZER UPDATE
Key partners have
presented a major report to Ministers in Westminster today following news last month that Pfizer will exit its research and development facility in Sandwich by the end of 2012.
The Sandwich Economic Development Task Force,
including representatives from Dover District Council, delivered its first Report to Ministers this morning. The report, requested by the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills and the Minister of State for Universities
and Science, makes important recommendations regarding the site, which will stimulate business growth and employment in Sandwich and East Kent.
The Task Force has made significant progress, and has identified key phases of action,
moving from an immediate focus on preserving jobs and activity on site, through to the longer-term delivery of wider opportunities for East Kent.
The Task Force, chaired by KCC, recommends focusing activity in three main
areas:
· Firstly, action must be taken quickly to support the staff, contractors and communities directly affected by Pfizer’s exit
· Secondly, it is recommended that Government designates the Sandwich,
Manston and key sites within the East Kent Assisted Area as a Research, Innovation and Technology Zone, (RITZ)
· Thirdly, these incentives need to be supplemented by investment in critical infrastructure, (particularly
improvements to rail connections), jobs and skills to support substantial economic growth. The creation of an East Kent Recovery and Growth Package is therefore recommended, to add value to the RITZ, building on Assisted Area status.
Cllr Paul Watkins, Leader of Dover District Council said:
“DDC has been working hard with partners, including KCC, to engage with Government and with
Pfizer to identify solutions for recovery and growth and how best to support local employees, families and communities. It is vital that early action is taken to maximise the potential of the world-class facilities at the Pfizer site,
and we are very pleased that DDC has been actively participating in the delivery of this first Report to Ministers, and we continue to work together for the future.”
- Paul B
Yes was there for the naming and dedication of the ships Godmothers.
We also had a flypast with two RAF jets (one from the
westerly direction one from easterly) crossing over the two ships. Much of this organisation being done by Chris Lamming the PR Director at Stena in Ashford where I was also based in 1991 after six years at Southern House.Chris is of
course now the PR Director for P&O here in Dover.
I would think the pics of the aircraft over the ships (which at the time were quite spectacular) may be in the DHB collection.
Ed
Invicta was an "interesting" ship,I
still catch up with some stories from Capt Weston who is just up the road from me. - Interesting memories of the Catherine Zeta Jones/Pam Ferris day in Dover.
I
was DDC Chairman at the time & had the pleasure of joining them both in the Market Sq. in a period vehicle.
Both very down to earth ladies & they entertained he local crowds.
This was when the Darling Buds of May was at
its height of popularity. - To add to the Pfizer Report to Government.
The Business Parks at Whitfield & Betteshanger are also included in
the Enterprise Zone bid. This is based on the existing Assisted Area designated map.
The HS1 extensions to Deal & Sandwich are also included.
The next meeting is at Dept. of BIS next Tuesday.
Dover was represented
today by Charlie, Nadeem & Tim Ingleton.
Regretably the launch was called when I was away.
I represent Dover District as a Task Force member & have been present from the start of the process.
- Is the Pike Road estate also included?
- I understand that Pam Ferris is a fairly local
resident (Elham). - Peter, if it is located in the Eastry ward boundary the answer should be yes.
AAS map is Whitfield, Eastry & Sandwich wards. Effectively runs
along the A256 corridor.
- Reg, I have been saying for years that we have too many levels of government. Cutting Kent into three, east,
west and the existing Medway would seem logical as such a structure would enable the elimination of both KCC and all the district councils. - I think it is in the
Eythorne & Shepherdswell ward. - I was the escort car for Cathrine Zeta Jones and Pam Ferris that day, the Darling Buds of May car was driven by a very funny man Bob the
cat Bevan. We had to park up for a while to time our arrival with the fly past, the girls were enjoying Champagne in the back and Bob and myself were talking about his beloved Crystal Palace stood outside the car, as the champagne flowed
the girls got louder until Bob told them to shut up as we were discussing matters of importance! to be fair they were laughing so much nothing would have stopped them. Three lovely people and happy
day. - Re my last post, it was the Eastern Arm and not the Cruise Terminal as stated in the write up.
- REG;
You
see that i thought roger was all up for a unitary, but it appears he just wants to tinker away at the edges.
The very issue he addresses on another thread on wanting to change before it's forced on DDC is the problem roger and
paulw are creating.
Shared services are a great thing theres no doubting that, even if it may cost us a bob or two on the senior manager side
but unitaries if DDC is seriously in favour of them need to be campaigned
on by our leading lights.
Sitting back is the worst possible option, and we could end up with pickles or his replacement forcing a unitary on the area.
Where as if our leading lights believe in unitaries and go to pickles
with a unified view, it would be so much better for the District
- I still can't figure out how three unitaries in Kent can work out cheaper than one.
One
unitary Kent Council would be the most economic way to govern local administration, based on the principles that Reg has been presenting (cutting costs and burocracy).
For example, all the district planning offices could be merged
into one central office in Maidstone, rather than in three separate offices.
Surely this would be a lot cheaper!
Considering that Maidstone is only an hour's journey away with the high speed train, it should not be difficult
to envisage Maidstone as a single unitary capital. - I'm sure Mr Matcham would pay good money to see some of the planning officers leave the high speed train as it went
past Maidestone. - Mr Morris,Sir I do not care where they go as long as it is out of Dover and they all have oneway Tickets,
- It would be as the HS train does not go to Maidestone. It by passes it at about 150 -170 mph (forget what speed we designed this section for).
So the only way to get to
Maidstone by HS train is by leaving it as it races past. - KCC is responsible for education and roads, among others, so to abolish it would not make sense, as surely
we don't want to create different offices spread around Kent each doing education and road-planning in their own area, with overlapping of planning and staff-congestion.
The idea of merging more sectors of important
administration to one centre in Kent, would be the obvious road which Reg's idea leads to.
In the case of the planning offices, great and fantastic planning projects would be carefully combed through and refined, scaled down
according to budget availability and the real needs of the local people.
At present we have too many district planning offices each making too many plans, at enormous expense. For example, a calm and relaxed view from one centre
in Kent (Maidstone), would count the number of supermarkets and shops in neighbouring towns, with overview of a fair distribution throughout the territory.
A district Council might tend to see only within a limited range and
decide on new shopping centres that take customers from neighbouring districts. Something a unitary Council - KCC - would be unlikely to do. - The Michael Jackson picture has
featured on the local Breakfast news this morning.
Just a thought could he be a very good look-a-like rather than the real thing.
I am really surprised that the captain has not been identified by any of our knowledgeable
seafarers past or present. - Ah yes Jan Ive heard via a text from that other well known Jan that its been featured on TV this morning. You see we even beat the TV to the story
!!lol
Many thanks of course to Elaine Lynch of DHB.
Very interesting posts there below on it all, many thanks guys. I suspect with researchers this thorough though its sure to have been the real Michael
Jackson! - Definitely was the real Michael Jackson.
- Jan, this knowledgeable seafarer was not with
P&O at the time so cannot identify the Captain. I was unaware that P&O had a uniform like that, with a boater hat and a long scarf, or that they favoured long curly hair, but they have always been a funny lot. Michael Jackson looks
good in his stage uniform, did he grow the beard or was it a stick-on job? - Spotted this on the BBC:
"Jacko and his entourage took over the function room on board
so they could get some peace and quiet en route to tour on the Continent. His people called our people about an hour before he travelled to say he was on the way. Legendary Deal snapper Basil Kidd took the picture and it made front page
of Today. The skipper is Captain Pat Hammond who was Senior Master.
Brian Rees, P&O"
- I am sure it wasnt one of Vic's not look-a-likes, looks like the
real one to me! - Alex
KCC are being stripped of their education functions as schools are given greater freedoms. - Ed, good one. LOL
I remember my late husband telling me about Pam and CZJ, he was on the Freeway so only had the gossip to pass on. - paul
can you clarify what new freedoms that schools will get?
- Unlike Barry John,it takes alot
to upset me,and I think that was agood one. - Howard,
Academy status, free schools, more direct funding. - thanks paul
i have a sinking feeling about this, i can see the best of the money going to areas where parents are more likely to know how to play the system.
will k.c.c
continue to fund schools that are not free or academies? - HOWARD
That's the problem, what happens to other schools, its a clear political move, to take away
KCC control
this is the believing in local govt agenda!!!! - Ive had the following info in from P&O and look its quite a striking bargain
and you can travel on the new ship too. Its a definite for yours truly....as soon as the sun shines over the yardarm...
P&O FERRIES UNCORK A BARGAIN
Take a day trip to France with P&O Ferries on the
Dover – Calais route this Spring and you can pick up THREE FREE bottles of JP Chenet wine on board into the bargain.
The offer applies to a wide choice of sailings between 1 March and 2 May, including crossings on the company’s
brand new £150 million superferry Spirit of Britain.
Day trip tickets are from just £23 return and cover a car and up to nine people. Full details at www.POferries.com or call 08712 220122.
(ends) - which car can carry nine people, and if you all buy cigs and baccy are you going to be stopped by customs for bringing in too much.
- TOP CAT SALARIES.
Howard.
KCC is too big and too expensive.
DDC is too small to be effective and top heavy with middle and top management.
KCC
with 31 salaries over £ 100 k pa.
DDC with 40 salaries over£45 k pa.
Both Councils beyond their sell by date.
Shepway,Canterbury and Thanet Councils with similar salararies structures.
An East Kent Council would be much much
more economic to serve East Kent. - REG
The report this morning on those salaries, and kent the thirs highest p[ayers of high wages in the country on the over
100 grand summat wrong in todays climate
blimey reg im coming round to this unitary idea - So it may be Reg. & we don't disagree but there is no legislation in place to
do it & all Councils have to agree & some don't, namely KCC.
If you break Kent up, all the 12 District authorities & Kent have to agree & deliver an agreed new structure.
So don't keep telling us we know, it seems you
don't or won't accept the decision does not lie with Dover or Thanet or Shepway or Canterbury.
We have been ahead of you for years.
I repeat this government or the last decided it was more advantageous to let Councils
organise it themselves i.e shared services, managed teams etc. than set a national policy & deadline & cost £000's millions in enforced redundancy costs.
Better managed than forced.
You will cost the Council tax payer huge
sums by your method. - Oh dear REG looks like you don't have the support you thought you had from paulw or roger.
so we are in this for the
long haul of shared services, which as john says, the jury is still out on whether or not Dover will make a saving. - PAULW.
Your posting, this time, deserves
a reply.
1.No legislation in place!; Thats why we have been asking you and your colleagues to speak/lobby Mr.Pickles.Have You? KCC will never agree to an East Kent Council it would be the last nail in their coffin.
2.Incorrect.Only
four District Councils (DDC,SDC,TDC&CDC) have to agree to an East Kent Council.
3.You obviously agree to an East Kent Council.The decision lies in the hands of the four councils mentioned.
4.Purely for the record if you have been
pursueing a Unitary Council before the year 2000 when I was the leader of the Council when I tried to introduce it....You are correct.
5.Cost to the tax payer will be enormous paying for the extortionate salary bill for
KCC,DDC,SDC,TDC& CDC for years to come unless we do something to change soon. - NUCLEAR POWER
I see the MP for Folkestone and Hythe Damian Collins is still
pushing ahead trying to secure the new nuclear power station for Dungenesss. I myself spoke out in favour of the new nuclear power station for Dungenees because I was horrified at the prospect of the whole area suffering badly from the
loss of a hi tech power station, a power station which would essentially bring jobs and prosperity to the wider area...even more important for the region now that Pfizer has taken a dive.
In the end the Government selected sites
for 8 new power stations and Dungeness was not among them, despite the energetic campaign from all leading Tories in the wider area to secure it.
The reason for turning Dungeness down was basically because of its potential for
flooding...according to HMG this was the reason. Local campaigners were not amused. Very tame thought one and all.
But...following the horrific scenes in Japan after the earthquake, where flooding following said earthquake caused
most of the fallout damage we see today...you now have to wonder if our own government was right to turn Dungeness down after all.
Various nations from China to even Germany have now suspended their nuclear program and have gone
back to the drawing board for their energy needs. - As I have said for years now,we must turn back to coal.
- Vic do we really want men working in the bowels of the earth, with all the dangers and cost to health, to get the coal though?
- I spy with my little eye something beginning with c
Walking past Dover Police Station I noticed what appear to be 10 CCTV cameras attached to the building. I might
have missed some of course but 10 surely cannot be enough can it?
No doubt there is a reason as to why they have so few. The need to keep costs down. Trying not to alarm visitors to the town who might be wondering why the Police
Station needs so much protection. Surely money should be found to pay for a few more?
Smile, you are on Candid Camera
- Someone said on TV yesterday that
China had lost 5,000 people digging coal out of the ground, so its not a soft option. Its also extremely dirty in pollution terms.
Interesting one Puzzled.
What was that movie...scratching my head trying to remember the name of
it...where the police station in the Bronx comes under siege. Surely they cant be expecting that in Dover !!? lol - Geting coal out of the ground can be done
alot better than years ago,and would also mean alot more jobs and trades it is a very big+ we would not get it up like they do in China and the pollution would not be made like the old days, The coal would be a clean coal and any
pollution that is made can be pump out under the sea bed. - Southeastern franchise has been given government extension and new Maidstone West HS service will start from
22nd May.
This is very bad news for East Kent. - vic is right on this one, the mines in china are very backward and there is
little regard for the safety of staff.
hs
how is the new maidstone high speed service affecting east kent? - Think we have said all this before, but open
cast is the only real option and will the seams 1000ft or more under East Kent who wants that !!! - Paul sorry but open cast mining is not the only option you can
have under ground coal mines that would be 85% or more safe. - Paul B is the film you refer to Fort Apache the Bronx? starred Paul
Newman. - If you are interested in Clean Coal, go to cleancoalucg.com.
- PaulB, were you thinking of the film Assault
on Precinct 13?
- Ah yes indeed, a couple of good films there but yes the one I was thinking of was....
Assault on Precinct 13
as mentioned by Puzzled there.
Bang on!
They did a recentish remake of that one which was also quite good. But I seem to remember the original one as the best...lets hope that kind of assault doesnt happen in Dover anytime soon !!lol
But coal, gosh no
guys I cant see a return for coal. There are guys with better knowledge than me on coal mining but nobody really sees coal as the way forward..do they?? when you realise nobody even wants harmless wind turbines next to them you can see
the problem with a return to coal mining and the way it churns up the immediate environment. We need to search for energy...but despite the potential horrors is there really an alternative to Nuclear
power...? - QUALITY BUS PARTNERSHIP – MOVING FORWARD TOGETHER FOR QUALITY SERVICES
As part of the Dover Quality Bus
Partnership, Dover District Council has funded 17 new bus shelters across Dover District for the 2010/11 financial year - with 10 already installed and 7 on order for the near future.
Kent County Council has confirmed that this
makes Dover District the area with the greatest number of new shelters installed in Kent over the last year.
This is part of an ongoing programme to improve the community facilities across the area that has seen new buses provided
by Stagecoach and raised kerbs by Kent County Council, with Dover District Council also providing some bus stop clearways.
Representatives from Dover District Council, Kent County Council and Stagecoach signed the Quality Bus
Partnership agreement in April 2009. The partnership agreement represented a set of agreed principles and actions, and a commitment to continue to work together for quality local bus services for the area.
Cllr Nigel Collor, DDC Cabinet Member for Access and Property Management, said: “The Quality Bus Partnership is a great example of successful partnership working, and we are very pleased to have worked
together to improve community facilities, and to have installed these shelters. We continue to work with our partners to develop services and support sustainable transport, and move forward for the future of the district.”
Kent County Council Cabinet Member for Environment, Highways and Waste, Bryan Sweetland, said: “We welcome this investment by Dover District Council in new bus shelters, which complements the work undertaken by Kent County
Council and the investment in new buses by Stagecoach in East Kent. This partnership working demonstrates the value of the Dover Quality Bus Partnership in improving the bus network and encouraging modal shift from car to public
transport.”
Jeremy Cooper, Commercial Director for Stagecoach said: “We commend Dover District Council for recognising that waiting facilities are an essential part of the travel experience that make bus journeys even
more pleasant for bus users, and rightly complement the significant investment we continue to make in quality buses and improved frequencies."
Ends.
Many thanks to DDC for the above. Added picture shows local
Councillor Nigel Collor in a recent TV interview.
LATE ADDED EXTRA
Bus Shelters Installed up to end of Feb 2011:
1/ Mill Hill, Deal
2/ Court Road, Deal
3/ Coombe Valley Road, Dover
4/ Coombe Valley
Road, Dover
5/ Rokesley Road, Dover
6/ Roosevelt Road, Dover
7/ Fulbert Road Dover
8/ London Road, Kearsney
9/ Bunkers Hill Road, Dover
10/ St Barts Road, Sandwich
Due to be installed:
11/ Mill Hill,
Deal
12/ Mill Hill, Deal
13/ Melbourne Avenue, Dover
14/ Fulbert Road, Dover
15/ St Martins Road, Deal
16/ Telegraph Road, Deal
17/ Telegraph Road,
Deal - With regard to the bus shelters, they are a great idea, but it's the buses that should be of concern.
cut out services
elderly unable to
use buses till after 0930am
bus services at risk - Re Bus Shelters .Yes I welecome these however I have found to my dismay the one in Coombe Valley Road and London Road
Kearsney are facing the wrong way and offer little proptection from inclimate weather .
Im still having words with DDC and KCC as to me a shelter that provides little protection is a waste of money .
I did request Dover Express
place an article in their paper however with out a picture of me they would not print the story
Keith Im not allowed to attend the Quality Bus Partnership meetings even to speak on one item .I have to pass it by Nigel .
Bring back
the Public Transport Committee at least ones voice could be heard .
There is no feed back from the Quality Bus Partnership .
We are little mushrooms . . - Perhaps one
of our keen photographers could take a picture of the forsaid shelters . - Must be an election in the near future .Pleses could we have a flurry of pictures of Roger
,Jan,John ,Gordon ,and me before we all go into Purdah which starts end of next week . - SUE;
I'm sorry that your still encountering your parties closed shop, and have to
report to NIGEL
As, like myself you are a regular user of the local bus service, who better would there be to be at these meetings?
But sadly this is your groups OPEN forums?
Hopefully Sue they will see the error
of there ways.
- always good to see new facilities, however the folkestone road has been ignored again.
one in market square would be appreciated too. - LOCAL POLITICAL PARTY POLICY ON AN EAST KENT COUNCIL.
For the benefit of the voting public could the main local parties declare their policy on the future
progression to a Unitary Council of East Kent.Subject of course to legislation permitting. - Yes I agree Howard
- Sue you requested a picture of yourself with some of the other councillors in your post below, as there is an election coming up..well here we are. Im not one to disappoint..dont
say I dont know how to look after you girls !!lol Ive even included one with your famous hat.
Note also I have kept the political balance here..
....one Labour, one Tory.
Cllr Jan Tranter
Labour, Cllr Sue Nicholas Conservative.
The picture was taken in June 2010 at the flag raising ceremony in Sandwich. Had difficulty finding it as I could have swore that was in 2009, but
no.
- REG
Think a better question would be, if you support the progression towards a unitary, will you activly campaign for it.
to just say do you
agree they will all say yes - susan
this stop in market square collects cruise ship passengers, boat trip customers, school parties from the museum and the round dover
tour bus, certainly deserves a shelter
- Well please do not forget UKIP Paul ,One that shows me as goodlooking and a
young man. - Did they have camera's then Vic!
- Thanks Paul .
Made my day - Port of Dover Police Awards 2011
Families and friends gathered last week to recognise the
dedication and outstanding service shown in 2010 from Port of Dover police officers and civilian colleagues in an awards ceremony at The Ark in Dover.
Guests included Chairman of Dover Harbour Board, Roger Mountford, who
presented the awards.
The Police Long Service and Good Conduct Medal was awarded to PC Neil Parfitt, PC Martin Richardson and Detective Constable Graeme Daubney for good conduct over a minimum of 20 years service. The Civilian
Staff Long Service Award was presented to Communications Officers Jan Bilton, Sue Charles and Mandy Goodwin.
PC Neil Parfitt received the Chief Officer’s Commendation which is the highest form of ‘In Force’ recognition for his
professionalism, leadership and sensitivity. This award is made in recognition of a particular course of action, which, having regard to all the circumstances, including service and age of the nominee, could be regarded as positively
outstanding. Following a collision between two powerboats during the Dover Regatta on 8th August 2009, PC Parfitt successfully co-ordinated the emergency service response to the incident. His professionalism ensured that the scene was
preserved, evidence was obtained and crucial witnesses identified. This enabled the subsequent investigation to quickly identify the cause of the accident. His attention and sensitivity towards the family of the deceased ensured that the
family were fully informed and supported and appropriately protected from public gaze throughout the tragedy.
In relation to the same incident three Chief Officers Certificate of Merit were awarded to PC Ian Douglas, PC Darren
Parkinson and Detective Constable Lorraine Mackie. Again the officers took charge in clearing a shielded area for the paramedics to work, providing the victim and his family some dignity during that harrowing time. The officers went on
to care for the victim’s family and ensure their needs were met in the hours that followed. In doing so they displayed a wholly professional and compassionate manner in very difficult circumstances.
The final Certificate of Merit
went to PC Ian Thwaites in recognition of his prompt and life-saving actions on 27th November 2010. Whilst off duty, PC Thwaites administered artificial resuscitation to revive an unconscious woman who had stopped breathing.
Chief Police Officer Steve Masters said;
“Every year my colleagues in the Port of Dover police force show the highest levels of dedication to their job. The ability to handle a situation in a professional way, whether
in uniform or not, is always expected, but also keeping the local community at the forefront of their work is at the very heart of what the Port’s police force stands for.”
PHOTOGRAPH:
. Back row: Detective
Constable Lorraine Mackie, Detective Constable Graeme Daubney, Sue Charles, Jan Bilton, Constable Martin Richardson.
. Front row: Constable Ian Thwaites, Constable Ian Douglas, Constable Darren Parkinson, Constable Neil Parfitt
- congratulations to all that received awards.
- Where is my photo then,must be one
somwhere in Dover you can put up. - Vic no doubt when you actually achieve something your photo will be splashed all over the forum ;-)
- I do achieve
things not only in Dover but Deal to,,I was the Deal boxing trainer years ago, - VIC;
Yes you achieve things
you changed the indy seat in priory on town council
from safe indy to labour lol
you helped oust the tory from kcc(long may it continue)==
should i go on???? - Vic there was a ;-) at the end of my
post, your enthusiasm for the local area and events is a credit to you. - Concern about Kayakers..
Dover Lifeboat Launches.
Dover’s volunteer RNLI crew successfully located three kayakers on Thursday afternoon (17th) when they became overdue in Dover. The group were kayaking from Folkestone to Dover
The alarm was raised when coastguards at Dover’s
Maritime Rescue Coordination Centre were contacted by the group’s onshore contact who was concerned that they were overdue at their rendezvous. The duty coastguards requested that the lifeboat be launched and carry out a search between
Dover and Folkestone.
City of London II launched at 1.55pm and headed to the west. The all-weather-lifeboat’s inflatable Y boat was launched and the two vessels carried out complementary searches along the shore line and slightly
out to sea.
Although, sea conditions were calm, visibility was poor but whilst searching the Warren, the lifeboat crew members in the Y boat located the trio. They were safely ashore on the beach near one of the aprons. Once
satisfied that they were in no danger, the lifeboat was stood down and returned to Dover.
Dover Lifeboat Deputy Launching Authority, Roy Couzens said: “We were pleased to find the kayakers were all safe and well. They are
to be applauded for having made sure that someone onshore knew their plans and acted when they didn’t arrive at Dover at the expected time.” - great stuff all
round, makes a change for the lifeboat people to go out looking for people that had made sensible precautions before setting out.
so many times we hear of craft out at sea with no life jackets, flares or radio. - Well now, as you can see Ive had plenty of literature on the Refendum about the Port. Nobody at all urging me to Vote No but a few
leaflets urging me to Vote Yes. I suspect there isnt a Vote No campaign at all, as those guys have had nothing to do with the whole concept, but clearly the guys behind the Vote Yes are busy bees...one of those deliveries was posted
direct to me by mail, as well as others through the letterbox.
We have also seen Charlie Elphicke and Neil Wiggins out campaigning and delivering leaflets in town. Our roving man Howard pictured both guys on the hoof. Those
pictures are on the frontpage comments section here, but you may have to trawl back a page or two
Fascinating...just two days away.. are the locals champing at the bit to get to the polling station!? Are they all agog with
feverish anticipation!? Has the whole thing slipped off the boil!?
If the percentage turnout is tiny will it count for anything at all?
In case you hadnt realised..the vote is on this wednesday 23 March at your usual
polling station between 4 and 9pm. Shuffle on down.. - i have had one through the post and one handed to me by neil, nothing through the letterbox.
would
d.h.b. be allowed to mount a "no" campaign?
their charter stops them doing any things, maybe getting involved in politics is another pne. - I will not be
voting on wed, i have made my position clear, and still don't have the answers required or confidence in the peoples port proposal.
but i wish the referendum every succsess - I too have received a lot of material today including the Dover Society's poll in which I have voted yes to the People's Port.
- The referendum is to be
quite honest is a waste of money even more so when a large amount of "Dover" cannot vote. If anyone can justify the amount of money being spent please do so and enlighten me and I am sure many others. At the end of the referendum if
there is a majority in favour of the Peoples Port will it carry any real meaning at all? - it would send a message to the government about the feelings of dover
people.
the issue of the port sale hit the tabloids a while back with indignant people all over the country up in arms at the prospect of it being sold abroad.
the goverment may find this a political hot potato. - That is absolutely right Howard.
We can be sure that Charlie would exploit a positive vote for the maximum publicity to push the government in the direction of The
People's Port and away from the commercial option of DHB.
DC has placed a lot of emphasis on his 'Big Society' idea and he would find it politically more difficult not to support TPP if we had a good turn out for this vote.
It is all about piling on pressure. - I have recieved.........absolutly NOTHING! Nothing through the door or post,obviously they dont want my vote!
- i have recieved two yes two sets of correspondance from the ppt.
- JOHN/BRIAN
Got polling card and one
letter - It is a shame that not everybody can vote, some are victimised because they cannot get out to the poll, and yet want to vote, I know of a disabled person who is
housebound and yet wants to vote for the peoples port, as is her right, and is also a long term Dovorian, but as there is no postal vote so loses out - I got mine and
Marks vote for the port - Sheila this is probably about costs. Word is that the referendum is costing Dover Town Council £15,000. You are a Councillor so will know more about
this than me of course. But I imagine the reason there are no postal votes, and the reason that the polling booths are only open for a shorter time is probably to do with costs. Or more accurately..Keeping the costs down.
Manpower
is needed to deal with postal votes and manpower is needed to man the polling booths etc etc. So what we are getting is something of a shoestring operation but I suppose its better than nothing.
If a refendum is called for then it
has to be delivered..some ancient law I suspect. But maybe the participants in the contests in future should foot the bill !!?? Just a bit of wild speculation there...lol!
But yes it does seem a great pity that the disabled cant
vote if they cant get out to vote. - The legislation for this goes back to 1973 and was really for small parish Councils rather larger Towns. Initially towns
like Dover had Charter Trustees and not Town (Parish) Councils of their own after the local government re-organisation at that time. - i would suspect that the time
element between the referendum announcement and actual voting precluded any chance of arranging a postal vote. 
Just got my council tax and accompanying leaflet through the post, it appears to endorse the common belief throughout Kent that Dover District Council is run by lunatics.
The preface champions
the fact that High Speed rail is up and running, in fact 70% of the district has no access to HS1 services. Regeneration continues to be a major part of the council's programme, yet there is no precept spend allocation for Deal,
Sandwich and Walmer only Dover has a regeneration budget.
The Parish & town precept gross spend for 2011/12 is £805K for Dover and £376K for Deal, this is a huge financial in-balance as Deal has a higher population. Is this to
cover the cost of the farcical non democratic "peoples port" referendum?- i don't think that deal and sandwich are in as much need of
regeneration as dover.
the cost of the democratic referendum is approx £13000 and is paid by dover town council. - yes howard, and i have to say it has fallen
short of expectations, apart from the unanswered questions, the short polling wont help
still i still hope they got it right and do ok
and of course the govt listerned - I have had yet another mailing drop through my letterbox just now...it thundered onto my doormat to the sound of bugles playing...all on the vote tomorrow. Urging me to vote yes. This
is on top of all the previous mailings and drop ins that I mentioned earlier...see further below. Clearly, despite me being a lowly foreigner I am a far more important person than local boy John Goodwin (JHG) who has had no mailings at
all!!
Lol! Despite all I still love yer John!!!
My vote desperately needed...or so it seems.
Yes to be clear...this is only a local referendum within the confines of the Town Council wards. It wont appear on the DDC
budget breakdowns as it has nothing to do with them. - The polling hours and the lack of postal or proxy voting, as well as the short lead time up to the poll are
all laid down in the 1973 Act with governs parish polls. As for the reasons, you would have to ask the people who drafted and debated the bill nearly 40 years ago. - PETER
I
think you need to explain a little more,
parish council elections in the past go on the same as any other election - two different things keith, elections and
referendums. - HOWARD
Thankyou for the lesson, lol
if ANY govt -believed in this big society or getting people involved then opening polling booths for
everyone wanting to participate would have been the ticket a few complaints - Keith - what has the present government got to do with it? This is 1973 legislation being enacted. I dont know whether DTC or
DDC have any leeway to extend the polling hours, issue polling cards or allow postal votes or not. If they have then its up to them to decide, not the present government.
You could of course argue that the legislation needs
amending to facilitate greater participation and I would have some sympathy for that. But dont expect such legislation to come forward just for the benefit of Dover and this issue or to be presented quickly enough to facilitate our
vote. - some news on the Port for Dover leaflets,yes another one turned up today......for my Mrs and Stepdaughter again.....not me!...I am feeling a little down not
only do they not know I am here,but I am also a local Councillor! - i had three in today's post, making a total of 5.
john
i didn't know you were a councillor, if
i had done i wouldn't have been so nice to you. - baz;
who ever is at fault doesnt really matter, what does matter is the poor organisation.
john please
dont feel left out - Whose talking about fault Keith? I merely corrected your attempt at political point scoring to show how, well pointless, your
comment was and how incorrect you now are to talk about 'poor organisation'. It is all down to an old law. - BARRYW
Actually bazl i was trying to help out your
cause, but as usual you go down the blinkered route, which will do little to encourage people to vote.
As i said whoever had not organised it better if that is the case then this should be looked into.
mine is an
observation baz, i wouldnt dare think of saying i'm correcting you, all these are view points, we may differ but that's what the forum is all about - Keith,
I
put this link on the main thread but worth repeating here. It's organised by DDC exactly according to what the relevant law says.
www.dover.gov.uk/PDF/Parish%20Poll%20Frequently%20Asked%20Questions.pdf
There's no poor
organisation at all though you might argue that it's inappropriate legislation when it's applied to this town council situation and not the parish polls that it was intended for, but it's the law as it stands now. - Quite right Ray - whether Keith is deliberately refusing to understand or he genuinly cannot grasp the concept I really dont know.
I suspect that politics is behind
his so called 'misunderstanding' - its a bit sad really. - My daughter upstairs might have had a leaflet, I have not asked her, nothing at all through my letter
box. - I had 2 more of the same leaflets through the post today making a total of 5 now, what's going on.
- RAY
Voted already
tells me you have lean towards the outcome and thus will suport it all and that's fine. - Good to know your view of the people running
your District -anonymous hsdeal.
Perhaps I'll stop wasting my time trying to take up your case with South East Trains, DfT & others as I have today in Westminster.
You would not have had HS1 in Dover if some of us as just
given up when we were told safety issues prevented it. - Paul
with regard to your posting, the posting by annonymous hs deal although not over
helpful, i suspect it's more frustration.
all pulling together the way forward, and yep, sometimes posters may disagree - Keith,
Yes I support the
People's Port proposal. I've said on the members thread I think it needs an arrangement suitable for the 21st century with stability, not to be sold off and then possibly on and on and on.
I voted in the Dover Society postal
poll of members, a recognised Civic Society for those who show their interest in Dover by their membership. It will be interesting to see how the percentage turnout and results from this poll compare with the DTC
poll. - keith
paul and other councillors, even prominent local businesspeople post here under their own names on a public forum.
hsdeal is promoting his website,
fair enough, that does not mean that he or she cannot put their name at the bottom of their post. - HOWARD
I do agree with your post, but if your to take that
line then it should be a consistent view for all posters whTether they post on a regular basis or not.
This is not the case at the moment - keith
i am not sure where consistency comes into it, all posts whether regular or intermittent are treated equally.
that is irrespective of whether they are members or non members. - HOWARD
You are correct but i did hAve the same conversation with paulb so maybe you two should chat
anyway how are
you? - Yes we would certainly prefer people to use their names..but as this is an open page and I think Ive explained this before, people who are non members can use it....so
if someone posts and calls himself John Smith we will have no way of knowing if this is actually John Smith or not.
Thats the difficulty.
However it is impossible to have serious discussions with someone called 'blogspot'
so we ask him to use his name henceforth. Blogspot makes interesting posts but it is unfair to the other members who use their own names to be talking to someone who chooses to be anonymous.
But us editors do have the choice as to
whether to display a post or not when it comes in from a non-member source.
So HSDeal Blogspot please use your own name now. Normally we dont mind for a few posts but if you are making regular contributions and local politicians
are trying to answer you then a name is only fair..otherwise we wont be able to use your posts.. which seems a shame.
I hope that's fair to all and keeps a
balance. - PAULB
We sid if you recall paulb have this conversation there was one un named person who contributes a lot
this person remains name less
all
i say is fairness across the board if yuo to ban people for not adding names - Keef if you read back over your post there, I dont understand it...its a bit garbled.
I think
Ive made the situation as clear as I can possibly make it in the post directly below. - Maybe paul when we get 5 mins together we can go over our recent
conversation on an individual who posts without naming himself, I won't continue the thread so as to make it difficult in any way for you or him, or name him as that would be wrong.
maybe today if your around might get chance to
discuss it
anyway how are you you old lefty??? - I vaguely remember some conversation but there isnt anyone in the members list thats anonymous. There are some
with initials harking over from the old days but we all know who they are..but lets leave it at that before worldwide boredom sets in.
The point is its useful if people making posts on this page who are not members, put their name
to those posts, so that other members who might want to answer, at least have a name to talk back to...seems fair.
Thats as clear as I can make it without going into further laborious nit
picking...phew! - oi you iold lefty lol
will discuss it with next time we meet
as you do recall the chat
you going to hawkinge today?
if so
see you there
if not see you soon - A GIFT IN TIME.
CHANGE IS THE WIND AND IS THE SEA
IT IS EVERY BREATH WE TAKE
WHICH CARRIES US FROM ONE MOMENT TO THE
NEXT
IT IS FROM BIRTH TO DEATH
WE ARE BORN TO LIVE IN CHANGE
WE ARE BORN TO GROW,ADAPT
AND BE BORN AGAIN IN OTHERS
THE CLICKING OF THE CLOCK TELLS US THAT LIFE IS MOVING ON
WE MAY STOP THE CLOCK BUT NOT THE
SUN
TIME WILL HEAL ALL OUR WORRIES AND OUR WOUNDS
MEMORIES LIVE ON
HOW DO WE COPE WITH THE MOMENT THE IMPACT
THE CEASELESS WIND AND TIDE
WE KNOW THERE WILL BE LULLS
WE CAN HEAR THE CLOCK SAYING`THERE WILL BE AN
END`
BUT WHAT NOW
FIND INSIDE THE SPARK OF LIFE
THE ENDLESS DRIVE TO LIVE AND CREAT
FIND YOUR PURPOSE
AND GIVE IT TO THE WORLD AS A GIFT
GIVE LIFE,SHARE ENERGY,SHARE HOPE
LIVE YOUR LIFE AND GIVE TO OTHERS YOUR
GIFT
FROM THIS MOMENT NOTHING WILL BE THE SAME AGAIN.
Alan Turner May 1997. - very prosaic for this time of the morning reg.
- I did not realise that I was not eligible to vote on the People's Port referendum until this forum directed me to the People's Port website FAQ pdf.
I am a resident of
River, use the port, pay my council tax to Dover Council and support businesses and shops in the Dover area. So why can't I have a say in how the port is run?
The Big Society is surely what this is all about.
Is the vote being
rigged in favour of the Port Authority?
Mike Garrett - I shall be there voting tonight with my family and rounded up friends to vote yes,
newby to dover of just over 3 yrs comming from blackpool were things were very different a council geared for regeneration things happining yes they lost the super casino and no plan B but by in the 3 yrs gone on a recent trip back what
a change here in dover? nothing!
The big society can and should happen in Dover owning the port means no jobs lost
“A social enterprise is a business with primarily social objectives whose surpluses are principally
reinvested for that purpose in the business or in the community, rather than being driven by the need to maximise profit for shareholders and owners.
Social enterprises tackle a wide range of social and environmental issues and
operate in all parts of the economy. By using business solutions to achieve public good, the Government believes that social enterprises have a distinct and valuable role to play in a helping create a strong, sustainable and socially
inclusive economy
Social enterprises are diverse.
They include local community enterprises, social firms, mutual organizations such as co-operatives and large scale organizations operating nationally or internationally. There
is no single legal model for social enterprise. They include companies limited by guarantee, industrial and provident societies and companies limited by shares; some organisations are unincorporated and others are registered charities.”
Social Enterprise - a strategy for success DTI, 2004
Perhaps we should take a look at some examples and plan for the future? - mike
only
in dover town was a referendum asked for.
any other town or parish could have done the same.
i believe that it was just down to 6 people requesting one. - just to change the subject slightley olympics? dover is the gateway to a lot of traffic to come, cant find any information as to what the town is going to do to prepare for the hoards to welcome them, the tourch so mentioned a
while a go has that died a death? funny enough gillingham has started to do something already they have plans what do we have? - Some thoughts on the port referendum can now be
found on my blog at rhysdgriffiths dot wordpress dot com. Have I been overly pessimistic about turnout? Looks like I might have been. Do take a look and share your thoughts with me. - I live in Lydden, (Dover postal address), i have a business in the centre of town and i wasn't eligable to vote tonight.
Disgusting. - this issue has been done to death ss, it was up to people in lydden or anywhere else in the district to call a referendum.
i suspect that most areas did not
think the issue big enough to spend a large part of their budget on. - That's because it's not big enough to spend any money on. Who cares who runs a business as
long as it's run professionally? Because at the end of the day, that's all it is, a business. And i really don't think that anyone from Dover has the credentials to run the port. They can't run the town, let alone the port as well.
- The real danger of this present system is it only takes 6 people to call for a referendum
look at the damage/costs that could be incurred with silly ideas
we
have been lucky this has not happened up to now
but the danger signals shoud be thought out - can only happen at town and parish level as far as i know
keith.
i have never been in favour of too many referendums, but after the sucess of today i may change my mind on the issue. - This is not a referendum! It is
a poll. An officer explained this to me in Belgrave Road in front of the ballot box.
I didn't vote, because on reading the formulation of the question, I came to the conclusion that it is very unclear to the voter what the second
half of the wording is about. - The only problem is 6 geezers having a larf while down the pub with a maverick scheme where town council won't have any contriol
over.
6 members of the public does seem a very low number when you look at the population of Dover - much as i appreciate the points that alex and keith make the general
public have been mobilised in the least few hours much more than they normally are by elections.
lookin down the threads the world and his wife and the staffordshire terrier have all been heading down to the polling
stations. - I do appreciate what you say howard,
but the proof is in the detail,
promises have been made should the peoples port be accepted
about all
the millions that will be spent in Dover
then theres the problem even if the p/port does get it=s way
how much will be spent in dover, on what, and who decides what dover needs - "the world and his wife and the staffordshire terrier have all been heading down to the polling stations." Does that mean the town centre residents and the drunks with their
leash free dogs from the market square? - ss, we will see later tonight how many people turned out, when the turnout is made known. At 8:10 PM I was informed that the people at
the Saint Mary polling station saw a one third turnout.
Perhaps the usual company you keep ss is in the planning rooms of Harbour House.I know where my preference would
be.
5000 for,115 against.Dover has spoken.- i suspect that some of the later posts here have
an agenda that may be lost on the rest of us.
i try not to be cynical though. - As a Dovorian, I can state openly and clearly that the people of Dover were
aware of the poll, and of the campaigns that preceded it on the part of the p/p trust Ltd.
I can assure you that many people who I spoke to told me that they did not want either the DHB privatisation proposal or the proposal put
forward by the p/p trust Ltd.
The answer came this evening, with a massive majority not voting in the poll. - I think the only hidden agenda Howard, stems from Harbour
House and it's department of disinformation - And I,Alexander,can state you have your head in the sands my dear.
- Alexander you really do not have a clue what you are talking about. Your arguments are reminiscent of a Mobius strip and you are the only person involved in
them.
People that count (govt.) will understand what the output of the referendum (thats what it was - check your dictionary) really means and hopefully take that into account when they consider the 2 options that have been put
before them.
You'll find, if you care to do the research, that the do nothing option you favour has aready been considered. - Graham, to your dismay, the
officer in Belgrave Road polling station said to me three times that this was not a referendum, but a poll.
P/P leaflets are lying around near the front door where I live, no-one has picked them up! They always take the other
leaflets upstairs, including those from la friends pizzeria; it's not that they are not interested, but they simply do not agree with either proposal put forward.
A 25% turnout is never a victory, Graham, in any poll, or
referendum, or election.
In some countries, if less than half the people vote in an election, it has to be repeated.
This was a poll on a vital local issue, where all the people eligible to vote live in the town area, with no
need even of a car to get to the local polling stations.
The p/p campaign was widely publicised, in the local papers and on the Web. Because the poll proposed only two options, the only way to say No! to either of them was by not
voting.
It surprises me that some people simply talk around this and go on pretending that there were only two options. The whole thing has been hammered out on the Forum time and again, and the 25% turnout speaks clearly,
Graham!
Sorry mate! - Alexander, as an alledged author I'm suprised that you wish to misquote words and use the trivial excuse of "someone told me", when you know that
there is an accurate definition in a dictionary.
The chap you spoke to was probably no more than a volunteer to man the station, you are purposely playing with words, which gives you no credibility. I hope you only write
fiction.
You can quote figures to your hearts content, the people that count in govt. will draw there own conclusions.
If you were to read my post rather than regurgitate the same old nosense you'll note I never made any
claims on turnout, statistics etc.
As I said your 3rd option has been considered and if you do the research you will see the results. This is not talking around the subject it is directing to do more research to support your ill
informed opinion.
As I said you don't have a clue, sad but true.
- a third option would raise some questions like,
1,would a third option be
viable.
2,would dover benifit from it.
3,what would the conseqenses be if it went belly up.
4,how would it be funded. - I thought 25% was a surprisingly good turnout.
Off the top of my head I think I remember some by-elections recently with figures in the 25% ballpark.
Just to refresh..here are the results of the Dover jury...
5244 people voted and only 113 voted NO...all the others
voted YES.
98% voted in favour of the People's Port, there were just 13 spoiled papers.
But...what happens now? - PaulB - the turnout for the last KCC
by-election in Dover was only 16%. Bear in mind that was an election for which the polling stations were open all day and it had postal votes.
Looked at in that perspective the 25% is not just good as a turnout but simply
astonishing.
I was out helping remind people the poll was on and met no less than 6 people who told me they went to the polling station but were too frail to que up to vote and so left without doing so. Thats just six that told
me that in about a three hour period.
A lot of other people were too old/frail to attend and some did not know where to go to vote.
As for what happens now - Charlie has more ammo to fire in Parliament.
There are two
imperatives for the government here:
1/ Is financial, getting a capital receipt to reduce debt.
2/ Is political, David Cameron has placed a lot of emphasis on the Big Society - well this vote and the People's Port is what the big
society is all about so Charlie now has a massively increased political case to pursue. - First this was not a BY-Elections but a miss worded Referendum that has no
meaning behind it with alow turn out of only 25% that means 75% did not turnout at all, that is not a victory at all. How can you say that the public of Dover have spoken that is not true,only 5000 have.
To call it a victory the
turnout would have had to been a 75% turnout,not as it was just a 25%.
And what was the cost of this miss worded referndum in public money, it worked out at £2 per head that voted, that money I might had was paid out by all the
town and District Tax payers not just the town. - Vic - you have tried that argument and it has failed.
Just a thought.
Given the queing at the polling
stations with a 25% turnout, just imagine what would have happened if 50% of the population turned out to vote and stayed in the que until they did so. I suspect that many would not have had time to cast a vote in the alloted timespan.
People would have been turned away at 9pm... There was never the slightest chance of reaching a 50% vote given the time allowed. That alone shows just how specious your rather warped argument is Vic. - As I said last night "If" is only two letters but in the Chambers Dictionary.on the condition that, provided that, supposing that,whether, though,whenever,in surpise or
irrtation,as in,an uncertainty,but what alot of meaning behind the two letters,so I would not go down that road if I was you,again as I told all of you last night,keep to the facts ,not might be or not.You do not know if they where
queing up at the close of play,because like alot of your supporters we was all in the same place. - Vic, if you were to be elected to a council seat with 98% of the vote
on a 25% turnout, would you not consider yourself to have won the Election? - And our own MP must be very carefull on all this,because he is MP of the Dover and District,and
last nights vote was for town wards only and as we all know most of them are in the red party,but away from that the blue supporters that got him into power are in the district,and alot of them are very upset because they did not get to
vote,and also again what you must think about is some of their taxs they pay go towards the funding of the Dover TOWN council get,for each one of his supporters there last night there are 1000 out there in the district that might not
agree if this make up of voting. - And our own MP must be very carefull on all this,because he is MP of the Dover and District,and last nights vote was for town wards only
and as we all know most of them are in the red party,but away from that the blue supporters that got him into power are in the district,and alot of them are very upset because they did not get to vote,and also again what you must think
about is some of their taxs they pay go towards the funding of the Dover TOWN council get,for each one of his supporters there last night there are 1000 out there in the district that might not agree if this make up of voting. - You are being somewhat incoherant Vic.
- No Barry I am not good at words like some of you but the real
meaning of what I am saying is there. - All you got last night was 25% of six Town wards when there are over 45wards in the District and you are saying that is a
victory.Wake up please this has been no victory at all.And in the long term could cost the blues their MP. - what a great start to the day with the stunning photos showing
the garden of england in all its glory. - It is interesting when reading the forums threads that the most vigorous opponents of the peoples port are the 2 people
that only have an ill informed emotional opinion to express any point.
They blatantly ignore facts, misrepresent official/legal processes and change any thread to suit their perspective, no matter how bizarre that might
be.
Most importantly they have been exceptionally quick to challenge and decry those, with extensive experience, that understand the processes and facts.
But they have not undertaken any real work to put their case in a
coherent and constructive way to the forum, let alone the public. By the way shouting from the back of a hall in a public meeting where you are only a guest doesn’t count.
I am happy that a democratic process was lawfully
completed.
Apparently the 2 main protagonists don’t agree as democracy is only applicable when it supports to their opinion.
- Vic,I do not for one momment
think that you do this as a deliberate policy,but Dover now needs a united front to see off the speculators and carpetbaggers that now reside in Harbour House.There is no third way,that has been shown.We now have to stand up and be
counted for 'our' district,not for the outsiders that are Bob Goldfields 'place men' with in that once great organisation. - Graham, you do oblige people to repeat
themselves!
I have not written "someone told me". I found out last night at about 8:30 PM that it was not a referendum but a poll.
The official person, a lady, supervising the poll told me this three times, in front of the
ballot box, that it is not a referendum, as I stood there incredulous!
I had been led to believe, until that moment, that it was a referendum.
When I read the question, I told the man who gave me the voting sheet that I could
not understand the meaning of the second phrase "transfer to Dover Community", said I could not vote for this reason, returned him the card, and left.
I heard the supervising lady, who noticed this, tell him to rip the card,
which he did.
Does that explain better the situation as to the authority of the supervising official who explained that it was not a referendum? - Alexander, you make
yourself look so silly.
The person telling you this is correct it was a poll of the electorate of DTC.
The poll was for a referendum.
"Referendum - a direct vote of the electorate on a question of
importance"
As I said for an alledged author you seem to have (purposely I believe) an incredibly poor grasp of the english language.
Your voting card was torn up because it was a "spoilt paper" having been issued and
not used, you were one of 13. (in the minority again)
By the way why did she have to explain 3 times, once is enough for most people. She may have been confused by you because it is not a binding vote of any kind. It is to be used
as an expression of the wishes of the DTC electorate.
As I said in my last post misrepresentation once again by you. - a few people told me this morning that the
wording of the question on the ballot slip was confusing.
maybe that accounts for the spoilt votes? - Graham, I will not respond another time to your post on
this: yesterday evening, in Belgrave Road polling station, the so-called referendum was explained to me as a poll, and not a referendum.
The p/p had misled me into believing it was a referendum. Your explanation that yesterday's
poll was for a referendum needs explaining by a third person for better interpretation. I will close on this discussion with you, as it goes beyond any comprehension. - I will
accept Vic and Alex's protestation that 75% of the Dover electorate did not vote for the Peoples Port only if they will accept that 99.5% did not vote against it. - can we keep
the subject of the referendum to the thread please?
people looking in will think that it is the only subject of discussion. - Lovely photos, does anyone know
where the pond is and what is the house behind?
- Sorry Edmund Burke, you are wrong. 5100 people voted, 5000 in favour and 100 against, but that's not representative of the
people of Dover. A figure is being put about, also in the media, including radio, that 98% of the people were in favour, but that's 98% of the people at the vote, and not 98% of the people of Dover. It is a hair brained scheme which
will never get government approval, and why should it. Lots of political points are trying to be gained by people who would do better trying to influence DDC to lower business rates to encourage businesses to move to Dover. Don't be
taken in by the folks up at the Chamber of Commerce in Whitfield, who banter around their serious hallucinations thinking we are dumb enough not to see through them. - harry
d.d.c. do not set business rates. - Howard,are you now saying the front page is not a open page where all the public even non-members can
post about anything. - normally that is o.k. vic, but when the front page gets taken over by a single issue and the debates become heated the public switch off.
you
must admit that the referendum issue has more than enough posts on the members page, should non members feel strongly enough they can simply e mail paul and get a password. - Howard
And you aren't about to say who does. Why keep it a secret. It matters not. Whoever it is needs to set them lower. I normally stay away from any type of forum, but felt the need to put over my thoughts. Now I
have I won't be back, as I wish to continue my life without involving myself in an endless nonsensical discussion. - i thought it was common knowledge harry, that h.m.r.c.
collect busines rates and send some back to the local councils.
in our case a very small proportion, don't have full details on the amount. - Thank you
Rebecca for your stunning photos, what a beautiful opening page we have today.
I've been out and about in town quite a bit this week and everything looks shiny and good to me. Ok they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so
what? I've taken some lovely photos from around the sea areas and the sunshine makes everything look lovely. Spring is my favourite time of year.
You know what? I have a beautiful new baby grandaughter (a sister for Oliver for
those who remember him!), my daughter is at last coming out of the very black time she's been through, I have a job I love and the YES vote won the referendum - resoundingly - the weather is great ....... what more could I ask for. Let
the moaners moan but just look at Rebeccas photos or take a trip out to the seafront - you will feel good too I promise you. I love Dover!! - Harry
Business Rates are a
national rate set by the government while the valuation office of HMRC set the rate poundage.
There is no discretion at all for a lower rate to be set locally.
All the money gets collected by DDC and gets sent to the
government. they then give back to Dover a small proportion of what is collected.
No-one is trying to pull the wool over anybodies eyes. - The Valuation Office
Agency sets business rateable values. The Treasury sets the percentages. District councils collect the money and send it to the Treasury. The Treasury send back a proportion to district councils. DDC are powerless to influence the
process. Business rates are a tax on business establishments which is payable whether they make a profit of not. - Nice post Jacqui have just seen it, sums up the situation
today very well all round. Yes the pictures from Rebecca are superb. Spring is indeed a gorgeous time and gives us all a boost after the long winter. The vote has been cast on the referendum and people would probably be wise to accept
that the first round, lets call it the first round, went to the People's Port idea.
Ray I will find out more info about the house if I can. Leave it with me for the
moment. - thanks goodness someone else noticed the stunning photos, i thought it was just me.
so much natural beauty in and around dover, and some great
camerapersons like rebecca to bring it to us. - Yes it is very good for daffs this year ,last year was not so good but I have more out this year,the rose,s are all
in bud to,we have had a very long and hard winter ,but lets hope it is behind us now and we can have many weeks out in the garden. and yes they are very good photos thank you for showing them to us. - Beautiful photos Rebecca. Lovely show of daffs.
Was the duck house bought on expenses.? :) - good
one alec i never spotted that.
there is a rumour going around that rebecca done the photo shoot in posh barry's back yard. - I wouldn't be surprised
Howard. - Item 1 : A bit more info just through..the house and grounds above are actually the property of Reg Hansell himself. Yes indeedy, Reg owns the
grounds, the house, the daffodils, the pond, and wait for it...even the Duck House, which Reg assures us was paid for out of his own money. None of those Conservative type shenanigans !!
We dont want any misunderstandings ..lol!!
but isnt it a lovely place?
Enjoy the pictures above as its the last day for the display and then tempus fugit.
Item 2: Yesterday was a busy day in dear oul Dover. Dame Kelly Holmes herself, she of Olympic glory,
officially launched the Spirit of Britain yesterday to the gathered media and VIP's. Wasnt able to saunter along myself but kindly P&O have sent me a cracking picture of Dame Kelly with the Captain of the aforementioned vessel, so watch
for that...dont leave town! Will have it at the top of the page.
Item 3: The high society grand launch of the new Hotel happened last night. I speak of course of the fab new seafront Dover Marina Hotel ( formerly The
Churchill) I managed to get to that one and will have pictures over the weekend as soon as all are sorted out. Beautiful inside, a totally different decor than before and very pleasant and comfortable. Its open now, pop along.
So
a very busy week for Dover, and particularly a very positive day yesterday for Dover, for Travel, for Tourism.
Item 4:
As seen on TV!. Just to round off...the other notable event of the week was of course..just in case you missed it.. the referendum on The Port. The latest coverage of the result was on TV last
night with our two most vociferous talking heads on the topic, Charlie Elphicke MP and forumite Vic Matcham. Charlie upping the positives and Vic highlighting the negatives ie poor turnout. Although the turnout did compare well to local
election levels. - paulb
All those times i visit reg/wendy and i hadnt spotted the picture, nice of reg to share the picture.
lovely
- What a breath of fresh air! 'Everything's coming up Roses and Daffodils' What a splendid spread of beautiful photos, Thank You Rebecca.
Congratulations Jacqui on
the birth of your New Baby Grandaughter, photos please when possible. - doesn't the sunshine make u happier
- Having seen Mr Matchams views on here and now his performance on the TV I hope he will do the honourable thing and formally stand down from River parish council (before any elections).
Going public on a DTC referendum
on his version of democracy now requires that he apply those same rules to himself.
He did not receive the majority of electorate votes for his position on the parish council and won it by default.
Using his rules he should
now stand down as he does not represent, by majority election, the views of the vast majority of the River electorate.
The question is how much Mr Matcham wants his form of democracy and whether he is willing to stand by his
principles. I suspect they are only applicable on others. - The picture reminds me of the bar-b-q held yearly in glorious sunshine at reg's house.
raised
lots of dosh for a local party who disowned him(but thats another story lol) - I hope you are seeing 3 pictures keefy. You keep saying picture...but I hope 3 are visible.
You have me worried now!
But Colette mentions a spread as have some of the other guys so it must be okay.
Yes looks a lovely spot for a barbecue, I must begin grovelling for an invite
!! - PAULB
Even my steam driven computer picks up the 3 pictures ta
the bar b q stopped sadly a few years back after reg got shafted by that
party.
thankfully i still visit reg/wendy and the family - Mr Morris,Thank you so much for your post,even if it was wrong,if you are going to put things like that in a
post about me please try and do it right, I won because no one came forward to fight the By- Election,which was called ,I went round the River Parish got the ten names needed to call a Election, that sir is the way you have to do it by
law,so please tell me how I won the seat by Default.?
And it is a very big No from me,I will not be standing down.But why do you not stand in May and that might stop me geting back in? You might just be living in one of the wards
I am standing,if you need help to do that please ring me and i will help you. Again thank you so much for your time in posting. - VIC
I don't
think anyone needs to stand against you, your views will probably stop you getting in anyway.
that said everyone to there own, - Thank you Keith,by saying that I
will get even more votes please keep it up. - vic
you are fully aware the damage you are doing to your election chances(i presume anyway)
you will recall my
chat to you outside the town hall, having seen up to 400 people in favour of the p/p proposal, it would have been better(in my view)to have asked a reasonable question(as you did) and listerned to the reply, and then continued to listen
to the views being expressed.
I don't think you did your election prospects any good at all by your outburst at the end, it was the wrong audience for that.
Following that your continued gripe also doesn';t help
you.
I have no axe to grind, and don't support either proposal at this time, and will sit back ans see how it all unfolds.
you are in danger vic of putting the wrong peoples backs up
make sure the foot soldiers are
behind you singing the same tune
at the moment thats very doubtful.
but of course it's just my view - mr matcham, i think the point mr morris was making was that
you got nil votes and are elected as such, whilst you will not accept someone being successful with over 5000 votes. - How can I get votes if no one came forward
?.Iwill be standing again so we will see what happens this time. - no enterprise zone for pfizer.plan b==hospital.
Ron Green #15. I would appreciate if you would
let me have your email address.reg.hansell@tiscali.co.uk 
As requested Colette, it's Oliver (3
now!) and his new sister - Tiegan Chrystal. How's that for a happy photo! lol- Mr Matcham, thank you for your response. I know full well that you got in as no-one else stood
against you. Therefore the Returning Officer had no option but to declare you elected in an uncontested election. This is the default position in the lawful process. Hence you were elected by default.
My point is you have, by
going on the TV, publicly stated that you do not agree with a democratic process because not all of the electorate chose to vote.
Your position is even worse. No-one voted in an election for you.
Therefore by the standards
you are setting, not me, you have not won the seat, you are not (by your definition not mine) democratically elected. Whether you have followed a lawful process or not.
I only wish you to apply the same standards to your own
position that you are trying to inflict on others.
This is not about me this is about the standards you yourself are seeking to set. Hence you should do the honourable thing and stand by your principles and stand
down.
Thank you for your offer to support me should I wish to stand in an election but I am already part of a back office team supporting other potential Councillors. I try to use my skill sets where they add the best
value. - great photo jacqui, thanks for putting that up.
BUDGET LATEST.
With the cuts about to bite we have been told ``We are all in this together``Everyone except the Government know it is only the general public who are in ``IT``
If growth of 3% is not acheived even more of us will be in
``IT``
With the Forcast for growth being downgraded to 1.7% it is beginning to look decidedly hairy.
- That is a very good post Mr Morris,Thank you.I
do not agree with what you are saying the wording of the referendum was not right,and also it was a referendum to see if the MP had the backing of the Town Wards and with only just over 5000 turning out for all the wards he did not get
it.So he can not go back to london and say he has the backing of the Dover Public,
As for myself all I do is put myself forward at the polls as a candidate what happens after that is out of my hands. But again thank you. - From the point of view of postings, your standing in elections vic seems to feature in to many posts.
you are correct the public will decide in May and it's out of
hands, but what you can do vic is encourage people to vote for you by your actions.
I have pointed out the errors on other threads ref the town hall and the p/port as advice which you don't seem to take
and that's
fine.
but the people will decide in may vic, and my take on your outburst in the town, tv interview, postings on p/port
is against public opinion but it is as you say for the people to decide.
i do hope that more than
25% of people in the wards you stand in vote, or you are going to look silly if you fluke a win
but i find that unlikely so we probably wont have to cross that bridge. - A
dissappointing response Mr Matcham. I had hoped you would live by the rules you wish to impose on others. Because what you have written on our MP applies equally to you, your position and your parish.
Unfortunately I won't be
voting for you if you stand in my Ward as I could not support some one for any public office who demands I abide by rules they themselves won't comply with.
OOps slipping off subject and into MP's expenses there. (joke)
However, I wish you luck in your "Last Stand", as you call it. - Again thank you Mr Morris,I only wish that all the members that do not agree with what I
do,put it in the same way as you have. - Vic - your grasp on political reality is so weak.... Nobody is convinced by that downright silly and desperate
argument.
The 25% turnout was a great achievement, a better turnout than the Dover Town Council elections had.
A thought for you....using your rather conveniently adopted principals (soon to be abandoned you when you get
rejected in May)
At the 2001 general election Blair won a landslide election victory with a 167 seat majority.
There was a turnout of 59.4% - with postal votes, with 15 hours in which to vote and with massive national
publicity and huge budgets.
Blair's Labour Party received 40.7% of the vote.
That means Labour got only 24% of the British public to vote for them and had a landslide.
Do you think that Blair led a legitimate
government?
That put the People's Port vote into perspective, getting a higher proportion of the Dover population to vote for it than Blair got nationally in his landslide victory.
A turnout achieved with a polling window
of only 5 hours, no postal votes and only a 3 week campaign period.
That was a resounding achievement for Charlie and Neil they can be proud of. 25% of the population supported him, that more than supported Blair in
2001....
- i notice you refer to blair there barry, the truth is both establishment parties gain power on a smalll proportion of the vote.
that is why there
is a referendum/poll on the alternative voting system in about 6 weeks time. - barryw
the same can be said of maggie, major,m etc etc etc
so lets not get
one sided again
in principle on the discussion vic is having i think barryw we are at one - Ah! Jacqui, what a Wonderful photo Thank you, I can't believe Oliver is
already Three, he looks so pleased with his new sister Tiegan, I'm coming over all broody, even at my age lol! Congrats to Mum & Dad too. - Again we were talking about a
miss worded referendum which was asking for the support of the town wards of Dover he did not get even half what he was asking for. - vic
the subject has been
done to death, it pervades at least 3 threads on the members page as well as here.
the referendum has been done and won, any more stuff from you will just make you look like a sore loser. - Sorry Mr McSweeney my fault not Mr Matchams (in this instance). I started this line of debate and wouldn't want him to taking a ticking off for this.
Even though I
strongly disagree with him! - All the time that members carry on then so will I ,and I am not a sore loser,"WHY" because I am not a loser
- Thank you Mr Morris again ,but I agree with howard time to stand back and see what happens in the summer weeks.The debate was agood one and you done right by puting on the
Forum. Please now join up with us on The Members Page - Thank you Collette and Howard, and yes Collette I feel broody sometimes too - but it's nice to give them back to
mum when nappies need changing lol.
Just a little cautionary bit of news for PaulB and Howard. This afternoon whilst picking up children from a local school I got into conversation re the peoples port with some parents. I won't
go into details to be kind, but in short it was being said that Doverforums coverage of local events is brilliant, however "that Matcham bloke" is really getting on their nerves and who is he anyway - their words not mine. Got to say I
agree with them - he is making himself a laughing stock more and more. Does he not "listen" to remarks made by some very knowledgable people on the Doverforum? People who know what they're talking about and it's not political either.
Keith has tried to tell him kindly but he takes no notice of anyone. I don't mean to be unkind but surely it's time for him to stop all these childish comments and leave the serious stuff to the ones who know what they are talking
about. - Well put Jacqui.
Three I took today, The David Church, the Rodin and a shot of the lifeboat station. Nice to see people on
the pier again too.- JACQUI
Although i may disagree with many posters within the forum and i have gently tried to advise vic, i still encourage vic and
others.
Although vic has put his elections on to many threads the good thing is that he will probably be commiting sucide by his posts/actions.
As iv stated on here i don't think vic is going to come anywhere in any
election(unless like in river they cant find people to stand)
im sure these postings/actions at the town hall, interview etc will damage vic in the local elections, where vic was already fighting an uphill battle to not come last
in all elections he stands in.
I think in all honesty vic knows he's about to be destroyed in all the elections, thus his posting(vics last stand)
so for me, i like to encourage posters and wouldn't want to restrict
posters even those i disagree with - Jacqui and Marek. Not alot to say about your posts but thank you for your views
- vic
and i dont thank you either lol - Like Keith I consider Vic a friend and while I may pull his leg gently
on the forum I generally reserve my totally frank assessments of his position for face-to-face conversations. His opinions may not be mainstream but I support his right to express them.
He is always a gentleman even if his logic
has us speechless from time to time! - The port referendum, which was down-graded to a parish poll and then to a tropical storm, should fizzle out over the weekend; it was
registered at wind-force 25.
The national papers forgot to comment on the results. - Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
-Mark
Twain. - Again Thank you Keith and Peter for your posts,just to let you know I have been out today got one more parish to add to my list.
- i parish the thought vic.
- Very good Brian,I had to think about that one.
- Great photos, looking forward to staying at Dover Marina Hotel on my next visit.
- Fantastic photos
especially for us Polish refugees deported for our sins to the austere island of Jersey.Great to see Colette and Big David looking fit after their recent bout of ill health. If the devil could cast his net!!! he would certainly rope in a
few prime suspects..that well known womaniser and blarney stone kisser PaulB and a rare shot of Barry W-S who was taking time off his busy schedule of organizing Wills and Kate forthcoming marriage to frequent the opening of the new
hotel......I wonder whether that gives it the Royal seal of approval.Councillors Tranter and Collor one looking young and rosy faced the other well.... months fixing the pot holes appears to have taken its toll.Towering down overseeing
procedures was of course lovely Roger and seen lurking in the corner checking his bill is financial whizz kid Barry (don't talk rubbish)W. Looks like a super night. Love to all. - Love the post Marek yes was a lovely evening, and they have done well in giving the hotel a face lift well worth a visit should hopefully do well in the coming summer months.
Will have to loan nigel some of my moisturising
creme that keeps one looking young and rosey LOL!!!!! - VIC
I think we have done to death your standing in all those seats and how badly you are to
do.
concentrate on saving up for a bag of chips far more important lol
lol - Vic you are the Screaming Lord Sutch of Dover's politics. Keep it up, we all love
your passion for Dover. I just wish you could find a cause we could all subscribe to. - Thank you for that Peter my wife tells me that each day.
- The 2011 cruise ship season springs into action......
The Port of Dover welcomes the Spring arrival of the first cruise
ship of the year - the AIDACara. Launching the 2011 cruise season, the ship will call on Monday 28th March en-route from Le Havre and bound for Hamburg, Amsterdam and Antwerp on its German Bight Cruise.
The blossoming UK cruise
business will see around 240,000 cruise enthusiasts pass through Dover Cruise Terminals this year and the port is continuing to encourage this growth in popularity with holidays to suit all tastes and budgets.
New for 2011,
Holland America Line (HAL) will be offering fabulous luxury trips to New York from its homeport Dover and travellers looking for an individual experience will enjoy sailing with niche operators such as Crystal, Seabourn, Oceania and
Princess from Dover’s first-class cruise terminals.
Dover Port is also delighted to welcome the extremely popular Aida, Ibercruceros, Pullmantur, Fred Olsen and Saga lines. There are nine inaugural visits from cruise liners
AIDASol, the Emerald Princess and Dawn Princess, Nippon Maru, Costa Pacifica, the Artania from Phoenix Reisen and Ibercruceros’ Grand Voyager. Oceana Marina will be debuting in July 2011 and HAL’s MS Ryndam will arrive in Dover, in May,
on its first visit to the UK.
Kate O’Hara, Head of Commercial & Marketing at the Port of Dover said;
“The beginning of a new season is always an exciting time for us as the cruise terminals are re-
opened to travellers. Staff are eager to welcome not only new and returning visitors but ships and crews on their inaugural visit to our iconic port and town. First-class levels of service, excellent facilities and a wide range of cruise
holidays available this year means that Dover will cater for all types of cruise traveller as well as contributing to the popular growth in European cruising that is winning new converts each season. Our repeat customers already know
that there’s no better way to start a European cruise then sailing into the sunset against a back-drop of the White Cliffs.”
Many thanks to DHB for the information
above.
- Great posting Marek lol! Well one has to do what one can. Great pictures, I can see the Dover Marina Hotel bringing plenty of customers from far
afield especially when the spa is up and running.
You never know, they may just pop in on their way back from the colonies? - It was a lovely evening and what a
nice spread of pictures. It was good to meet the extended family spanning three generations, the grandmother has a lot to be proud of.
Brilliant posting Marek!!!! - first arrival of the season.
- for those travelling economy class the sister ship was not so luxurious
- lol!! I dont know about you Howard but Im not going economy class on that last one!! Sipping the oul pink gin on the foredeck there
does not conjure up visions of the grande lifestyle. One needs a little bit of shuttledecking and shuttlecocking in some style...and of course not forgetting a bit of sashaying in the evening! I do like a good rumba....
Yes good
post there Marek, but my heady days of excesses are behind me..ignore therefore that paragraph above! Ponders...Must give up that shuttlecocking..
But yes seriously though, welcome to the first luxury cruise ship of the season
AidaCara. First of many and let us hope some of the visitors linger in town. - does anybody remember the days before ships were named after websites?.
- Lovely haze of
summer shots of the ships.
Not directly related but to illustrate the perils of the sea a Vitesse Condor Ferry collided with a French fishing boat this morning. Unfortunately the Skipper of the fishing boat was killed and his 2
crew were plucked to safety by the St Helier lifeboat crew. - Well done howard with the pictures, got us all thinking of foreign adventures and long summer days and nights.
- I am very sorry to read this,as we all know fishing men are all in peril on the sea ,and we owe so much to them.
- Lovely photos everyone! Nice to see the liners coming in again too. And what a lovely photo of Dame Kelly, she looks beautiful.
And Colette - you look stunning too - tell
me your beauty secrets .....please!! lol
The new hotel looks really classy, a real assett to our seafront. I can understand why Michelle doesn't want that awful "information" thingy down there - what an eyesore!!
Oh Jan - I
think we're all dreaming of holidays now, can't come soon enough for me!
Oh yes - can I say Happy birthday to Collette on here as I'm not a member now. Hope your birthday bash goes well and you have a lovely day - and night lol !
xx - Jacqui if you want to be back on as a member let me know, it was only inactivity that caused the log
out. - Yes I would also like to see Jacqui back,so please come back.
- Dover Community Radio: Volunteers Needed for Studio Build.
Dover Community Radio (DCR), the new on-line community radio station for Dover, Deal and Sandwich is due to launch next month and we are
appealing for your help to make it happen. The team led by Albert Thorp and Steve Banks have been busy building the studio at the Phoenix Social and Railway Club since January after DCR was awarded a KCC grant fund in
November.
The station studios are due to be completed in April and we are asking for volunteers to help finish the build. Skills required are those with an interest in decorating, painting and finishing the studio to the
standards needed for broadcasting however any level of help will be gratefully received. Broadcasts will commence in late April or early May depending on the finish of the build. However if the studio can be completed sooner training can
begin so our volunteers can gain skills in radio broadcasting before they go 'on air'.
Dover Community Radio was founded in April 2010 and we have been fund-raising and promoting the idea to the community since then. The studios
were started in January and we are currently broadcasting test transmissions via our website where everyone can listen. The station is aiming to promote the towns of Dover, Deal and Sandwich as well as the surrounding villages. We are
appealing to anyone who is interested in radio and would like to be involved, please can they contact us by emailing info@dovercommunityradio.co.uk
So far in the last few months, DCR has been busy doing interviews with the
performers at the Crabble Mill Acoustic Night and the Dover Film Festival as well as having a stand there promoting the activities of the station. We are keen to support local organisations and events and aim to work closely with them to
help them be promoted.
If anybody would like to volunteer to be with the station or can help with the build in anyway please can they contact Albert Thorp, our chairman on albert@dovercommunityradio.co.uk or Steve Banks, our
secretary on secretary@dovercommunityradio.co.uk. Those interested in helping to build the studio can also contact Albert on: 07977447707
We would also like to thank all the local businesses who have donated materials towards the
build of the studios and everybody who has helped so far. Our website is at www.dovercommunityradio.co.uk
Picture shows Stevie Kennett interviewing Miss Dover Sophie Stroud at the Dover Film Festival.
Many thanks to
Terry Cleaver for the info above.
- With regards to this whole purdah business, hasn't Sue got it a bit wrong on the letters page? I always assumed it was
just a restriction on the use of the council's publicity machine to promote specific policy announcements or activities by members which could be influential in the outcome of the election? Basically so the ruling Tory administration
can't just instruct officers to issue reams of publicity about how wonderful they are rather than using their own campaign funding to do so?
How can a candidate be prevented from expressing an opinion during a campaign? I
certainly remember speaking to candidates during the run up to the General Election last year. And wouldn't purdah, as Sue sees it, also prevent the issuing of campaign literature? Maybe Susan could explain her interpretation a little
more clearly? - Regarding my previous post, the Code of Recommended Practice on Local Authority Publicity issued under section 4 of the Local Government Act 1986 states:
"The period between the notice of an election and the election itself should preclude proactive publicity in all its forms of candidates and other politicians involved directly in the election. Publicity should not deal with
controversial issues or report views, proposals or recommendations in such a way that identifies them with individual members or groups of members."
As far as I can see this is not a restriction on individual members expressing
their opinion during the pre-election period. So let's not have our elected representatives hiding away behind purdah, after all it's elections when we most need to know what they stand for so we can decide if we want them to carry on
representing us. - agree 100% rhys, the whole thing has been taken out of context.
best of luck in your new career move, by the way. - Colette will love those comments Jacqui, when she looks in. Hope to see you on Saturday
- Rhys - it all
comes down to interpretation. If the Council's legal officers advise a course of action and that is ignored then the member places himself personally at risk. Legal officers usually play safe covering their and the council's
backs.
I do not know what advice has been given in this I must add. - Well what can I say? If the great Mr Matcham wants me back then back I will come - just for
you Vic!
Yes please PaulB - if you will have me I would love to return - thank you. I have more time now so will try to be a better member. - Thanks Howard...
- Thank you Jacqui,I look forward to reading your post,and please just put what you need to say in your own words.
- Okay Jacqui you are re-activated. Just use the password etc from before.
Vic of course she will post in her own words...who elses words would she use..!!lol??
lets make sure now that its all nice and
peaceful. - Where are you going Rhys?
- He is trying to get away from
me. - Paul - I'm staying with Northcliffe, the company behind the Express, but taking up a new job as digital publisher for Kent.
It basically involves
overseeing the thisiskent website and producing breaking news and features for it. It will be nice to have a new challenge after four very enjoyable years at the Express. - that website does need sorting out rhys in my opinion.
some good features but slow with breaking news, your rivals are winning hands down at present.
i think the future is with digital publishing with regard to
the local press, once a week publications cannot keep track of unfolding events. - About 20/30 mins ago you may have heard a low down chest thumping rumble...this
was what caused it. Two chinooks flying very low came along the harbour wall, at very low level in the fading light.
Snatched this pic..light was poor and not easy getting the two of them in
the one shot but here we are...
Not all our military hardware is out of the country in hot locations like Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya...some are still here flying through
Dover.
- Was surprised by them as I just got out of the car at Swingate for a photo of the sunset. Quite fun watching the Twitterverse and seeing comments in
the last 1/2 hour from London and Aldershot !!
- Oh gawd....
You would have thought that Labour would rightly be so
ashamed of their appalling economic record they would show a spot of humility about the measures needed to put things right. Clearly they are just completely and blatently shameless. - good to see gwyn back, i thought he would have been taking a back seat for a while.
he refers to the cut in the winter fuel allowance, george forgot to mention that in
his budget speech, it was in the small print though. - Was it really necessary to cut the winter fuel allowance. Heavens it seems very miserable. Chasing the Labour
deficit doesnt hack it in this case as the sums concerned are meagre.
All our dear old oldies have given a life's work to the state and the only miserable extra many get in return is the winter fuel
allowance. - This royal wedding,why is it the NHS do not recognizing it as a public holiday all nursing staff will work there normal shift with no day of in lue
or extra pay for working this Holiday.plus Nursing staff will take a pay freeze this year of £400 while all staff parking charges will rise by £200 this year, I remember a Mr Charlie E promising to fight the nurses corner on this one and
try to stop the NHS charging there staff to park when on duty,Has he now forgotten this Pledge to help the Nurses ,these people are there for us 24/7 and we should always support them.And politicians should always keep there promise.
- Alan.
You are totally correct; our nursing staff are being treated with contempt, blatantly shameless.
Cutting winter fuel allowance will cause great distress
to our elderly and disabled and could even be fateful, blatantly shameless.
Cuts have to be made and some blame can be laid towards the last Government but the savage cuts being made by this lot, are blatantly shameless.
- What did I say about lies?
Labour are the past masters of the blatent out and out lie - you really should not believe the garbage spouted above.
1/ Winter
Fuel Allowance is not being changed except, very sensibly, to keep the qualifying age aligned to women's state retirement age.
2/ What they may actually be referring to are the extra Cold Weather Payments. No-one in the
government has said that the extra payments of £25 will be cut back to the more usual £8. Labour are guessing this might happen because a line of text was missed out from the budget document. Thats all. You have to wait to see what is
actually planned for these payments. I have a funny feeling egg will be all over Labour faces over this one....
What next?
oh yes, this demonising the banks nonsense - Labour really do need to grow up out of that but then they
only have a rather tatty fig leaf in blaming the banks for the Labour recession. In the budget when the accellerated reductions in Corporation Tax was announced it was also said, quite clearly that there was going to be a levy to
compensate so the banks did not benefit from it. Much as I do not care much for the banks this is a daft political gesture from Osborne because he could see this attack coming, but, oh dear - why did he bother? Labour do not care about
letting the facts get in the way.
Anyone who believes what that fool Balls says needs their head examined, this man was behind Brown all the way getting us into this mess.
Yes - there is plenty we can justifiably critisise
the government for in respect of the economy, as I just did in respect of the extra banking levy. The big critisism is the failure to cut back public spending enough, they have just done the minimum needed to pacify the bond markets so
we do not lose our credit rating. Far deeper cuts are needed to get the economy working properly. - lies, garbage, that fool b*lls etc does you no credit
barry.
the reds have gone, the question being asked is are the blues any better.
whenever they are challenged on anything they start the reply with "the deficit inherited", people then turn off, they want to know if the
coalition have a clue how to get things back to nomal. - Barry
The Winter Fuel Allowance IS being cut from £259 to £200. I remember this from the budget and
have just checked. Maybe you should stop telling lies.
I am unable to post the link but you can easily google it. - Just when fuel cost,s are going up,the OAP gets their
Allowance cut,well done Barry your party is the caring party well that what the public were told before they came to power,the only caring they do stops at their own front door. - Sorry Vic At lest there trying what has your party done and labor with it corrupt politicians
- Sorry that should read £250 not £259.
I am still in shock
from seeing my grandson Daniel, on the BBC lunchtime news. He went to the BBC financial roadshow to see if they could give him any additional information and was one of three people they interviewed. - maybe barry is in denial on this one?
mind you francis maude was surprised when interviewed at the weekend. seemed like he hadn't bothered to read the detail.
when he
recovered he said that the election promise had not been broken as the allowance was still there.
i suppose that if next years allowance is dropped to 50 pence a year it will mean that no promise has been broken. - Alan.I Think the blues have more then their share of corrupt politicians to.UKIP at this time have no say in the running of the UK,VIEWS yes they are many but no
say. - alan,name a corrupt labour mp,anyone will do.then go through all the other partys torys included,and tell which ones are corrupt.
as for denial arnt all
politicans into that. - I did Google it Jan. Ignoring left wing blogs/rags the changes I found were those I mentioned in my post. I did explain where the I expect the story
has come from. - £250 to £200 sounds like a cut to me, but then I am just a ordinary person and not a super being!
- the cut featured in that left wing rag the daily telegraph in their summing up of the budget.
100 quid for the over 75's, still we are all in it together. - Howard - did you read the article or just the headline? I did read the Telegraph it referred to the measures I mentioned below, I also checked the Benefits Agency as
well.... - I bet you have.BARRY.I just hope you never have to use them like of the public do.
At this time I am reading a book CALLED Dovers Poor,by a person we all
know Derek Leach OBE.
If you had your way we would go back to the bad old days ,where the rich got richer and the poor just died in the streets, when they went by. - I suggest that you actually read what I write Vic.
- What a terrible front page on the forum now.
Full of labours criticism of others (in fact
everyone else), absolutely nothing positive.
I don't expect the same level of co-operation that was shown at the Town Hall on the vote for a referendum, but come on play nice.
Throwing comments from the naughty chair
won't win that many extra votes. - this is the article i am referring to barry
Elderly to lose up to £100 from their winter fuel allowance Photo: Getty Images
By Emma Simon 7:00AM GMT 24 Mar 2011
8 Comments
The Treasury has confirmed that the over-60s will lose additional payments, which were introduced in 2008 and designed to help them heat their homes while domestic fuel bills are
rising.
The payments have been renewed in every Budget since, in the face of high oil prices. The elderly have been able to claim £250 towards winter fuel bills, while those aged 80 or over could claim £400. This year the
payments will be reduced to £200 and £300 per household.
Since the start of 2008, the cost of domestic fuel bills has risen by 38 per cent, according to the latest figures from Uswitch.com, the price comparison website. The
average dual fuel bill, which includes gas and electricity, is £1,132.
Michelle Mitchell, the charity director of Age UK, said: “We appreciate that the winter fuel payment has been retained in the face of huge financial
pressures, but with energy prices continuing to escalate, many older people will find it strange that they will receive less this winter than last.”
- GRAHAM;
I DO see you lean towards other party?
funny this forum
years ago this forum was seen by many as a tory talking shop.
some people from other parties or individuals started posting
and suddenly it
was wrong to be critical of those nice tory boys and girls.
Paulb and others have asked for a Labour imput which they now get, but with that comes people disagreeing, no difference to our Barryw being critical of the last labour
govt
but Graham i don't see your disagreement on that
says a lot - Keith, not sure why you are rushing to make excuses.
My post simply reflected my view
that the Labour statement (oops am I not allowed to say who made the original post now) was very negative.
I have not criticesed specifics, even tho' there is ample opportunity. Nor have I promoted any other party.
If
another party had chosen to write something so comprehensively critical of every one else, with nothing positive, then I would have posted the same.
Altho' I don't have to explain myself I will also state that I do not
believe the the Conservatrives in their grandiose statements for Dover Town.
I don't need you to explain things to me nor do I need you to make assumptions about me. - graham
paul actively invites press releases from any organisation.
it would not be right to pick and choose what to post, i do agree it was a negative one though.
5 weeks short of an election we can expect
more from all sides.
most electioneering is of a negative kind nowadays. - GRAHAM;
Thankyou kindly for your post, and note you made no reference to
conservative postings, and of course that's fine.
I look forward to your unbiased posts on other parties in the future. - Howard - that is a different article but the
wording is such that it does seem to be referring to the Cold Weather Payments that I referred to. The 'additional payments introduced in 2008' is the temporary increase in cold weather payments to £25 a day from about £8.
This
is a different payment to the Winter Fuel Payment referred to in the press release. Confusion reigns supreme thanks to the complexity of the system left behind by Labour.
Once again I repeat that I think that this will be subject
to some further clarification and all may not be what it seems. We shall see. - barry
the article emma simon in the 24th march edition makes clear where the
cuts will be.
the third paragraph of my post is straight from that article. - The words 'up to' also indicates the Cold Weather Payments Howard. It seems
quite clear to me. Journalists, like politicians, do tend to use a shorthand that adds to confusion, sometimes deliberately. I find the same thing in my industry, some of the worse and most sloppy journalism is from personal finance
writers. - Howard,
The front page for some time has been up beat and pushing towards the brighter things associated with Dover. Any newcomer would be interested
and keen to read on.
Unfortunately, the political posting by a particular party is very negative and down beat for a front page. I have no axe to grind with any party on the forum and have not sought to make comment on the
political content.
Unfortunately Keith is so strongly philosophically biased towards the Labour Party (based on reading his posts) that he no longer recognises simple comments on negativity nor that someone being fairly middle of
the road politically, on this occasion, is not an attack on the Labour party.
I will limit my trips to the forum until elections are over and people are less politically hyper. - i don't see any ambiguity barry.
the "up to" is used because their are two levels, the lower level is cut by £.50 and the upper level by £.100.
i have since
spoken to the pensions service and they confirm this to be the case.
there was no mention of cold weather payments in the budget. - Graham it doesnt make
sense to single Keith out as we have a whole brace of guys politically biased in one way or the other but thats fine for us as we like it, it doesnt matter. Overall it all balances out.
Generally just to add a broad point to one
and all.. although we get lots of posts from Conservatives, and all very welcome, we dont get any specific press releases from the party. That should change...As Ive said before we are happy to use them by way of balance but you must
send them first.
Just the other night I tuned in to late night Radio 4...a programme called Today in Parliament, and who should I hear speaking as I switched on but none other than local MP and peoples port champion Charlie
Elphicke himself. He was pushing ahead with some Bill or other in The House...but does anybody in town here actually know what he is/was doing. I myself didnt catch which Bill it was but Charlie ought to get his message out. He may be
doing some good work there but does anybody know?? apart from Central Office.
Charlie was a better communicator with us before he was elected and I appreciate he doesnt have the same amount of time now with his busy bee schedule,
but its worth taking a re-stock of the communication situation. - i caught a bit of that paul, it was basically a bill to ensure that all children have fair
access to both parents in the event of a split.
at present the law is all about the parents haggling over access.
a nice change that the children will be considered more, hope the bill gets through. - I think the write up about myself on page 5 under Sketch With the Heading" Baiting Vic and skulling Toad in the Dover Express by Simon Finlay,is well over the top and out
of order,he is not in his office today,but I will be taking it up with him on his return. - PaulB. I have simply responded to Keiths assertion that I was making a
specific attack on Labour and then intimating that I was being biased in my posts. It is only from his perspective, which I have described.
As it was Keith that made these assertions it would seem inappropriate to name someone
else as stating them or leave claims of bias against me unchallenged.
Sadly the thrust of my original post is being hijacked with politics.
The forums front pages were upbeat and Dover orientated. Attractive to
visitors.
The current front page is not. The port element goes against the Lord Glasman support and throws doubt where there was none regarding Labour. As I said all very negative. - Hmmm..we're not trying to make our frontpages either upbeat or attractive to visitors. They are as they are.
- always been a mixed bag of stories on the front page.
so much depends on the press release sent in.
as two examples the lifeboat people always provide upbeat stuff on how their volunteer crews go out regardless
of the weather, always seems to end happily, then we get stuff from h.m.r.c. which has to be about someone trying to smuggle drugs or tobacco into the country. - Yes I think we have something for everyone on the frontpage as it changes hugely this way and that way every other day. But its all good entertaining
fun...hopefully! - The front pages are a credit to you Paul B, they are interesting and informative with good photos, what more could we ask
for. - I think there is far too much hot air spouted by politicians who have neither knowledge nor control of what is going on. It is obvious from the above that the Dover &
Deal Labour party have not read the Peoples Port information which is in the public domain. Gwyn Prosser is yesterday's man and his opinions are irrelevant. Ed Balls is a deficit denier.
I'm not saying the Tories are much better
but at least they are in power and able to put my money where their mouth is. - Brian I was thinking of our towns MP past if you or I had fiddled the DHSS we would be taken to
court or even put in prison these people are out and out crooks who are more privileged than you or I and yet they steal from people of this Country until every one has been brought to justice I will never vote again and in the sixty
five years I have been on this earth I have never meet a honest politician in my life and never will. its time we took this country back just like in the times of Cromwell But it dose not matter what we do nothing in this country will
ever change because most of the people want it, and its no good saying vote and change because you only swap one lieing lot for another. - Oh dear Mr Taylor .
- Alan you might have been cheered up to see yesterday that former Labour MP Jim Devine was jailed for 16 months and is sure to find it hard going in the slammer, as he doesnt look
like a man enjoying good health. But he deserved his sentence as he was an outrageous fiddler from the public purse.
Recently two other guys were also sent to prison David Chaytor and Eric Illsley, all Labour.....and there are
others either awaiting trial or sentencing.
Although the public view of politicians is at a low ebb, the whole business is that much better now than it was previously. The expenses situation has been tightened
considerably.
MPs now will realise prison awaits those who defraud...so it will sharpen up attitudes and enhance focus on reality. Its easy for those in Westminster to lose grip with reality.
It is a huge honour to serve
your community and people should be grateful to do so, the wages are good and so are the perks, there should be ample there to keep everyone serving happily without the need for further shenanigans. The constituents will be happy
too..happy to know they are getting a fairer return now from those who serve us ...thanks to a tightening expenses grip and a few hefty prison sentences to remind all that nobody is above the
law. - alan,i know that our past labour mp claimed expences but not to the extent that some others did.try watching the evening news to catch
up. - Alan I had to remove your last post for legal reasons.
- PAULB
I don't think the MP's saga
will go away, but will go on and on
with legalised expenses that are morally wrong.
yes some got over greedy from all the parties
but there are still those that don't have moral's
until this is cleaned up
properly this saga will be ongoiing - LATEST NEWS RELEASE !!
BETTER SERVICE PROMISED WITH EAST KENT HOUSING
Tenants and
leaseholders in Dover District can look forward to a better service in the future, with the creation of an innovative new organisation to manage council housing.
East Kent Housing takes over the management and maintenance of the
18,000 homes belonging to Canterbury, Dover, Shepway and Thanet councils on 1 April 2011. It’s the country’s first super “arms length management organisation” (ALMO), which will be managed and owned by the four councils.
Tenants
and leaseholders’ rights and responsibilities will not change and Dover District Council will remain the owner and legal landlord of the council housing stock in Dover. The council will still make decisions on the level of rent to charge
and what improvements and major repairs will be carried out.
Brendan Ryan is the Interim Managing Director of East Kent Housing. “This is all about giving tenants and leaseholders a better service in the future and
involving them more in how services for them are run. By doing this, we can ensure that we’re improving the things that matter most to them. Joining the four councils together also means we can make savings that we can then reinvest back
into council housing in each area.”
East Kent Housing will have to meet standards set by each council and will be responsible for:
· looking after council estates, including managing grass cutting, gardening contracts,
cleaning and maintenance of communal areas
· managing improvements to tenants’ homes
· collecting rent and helping tenants who are having difficulty in paying
· making sure that tenants stick to their tenancy
agreements
· involving and communicating with tenants, including producing newsletters, leaflets and supporting community groups and activities
· working with the police, the council and other agencies to reduce anti-social
behaviour
· re-letting empty properties, approving mutual exchanges and changes to tenancies
· running sheltered housing schemes and organising adaptations to homes of tenants with disabilities
Tenants and leaseholders
are being updated about the new organisation through a dedicated local magazine and a new website www.eastkenthousing.org.uk
Around 220 staff will transfer from the four councils into East Kent Housing. The new organisation will
be run by a Board of people, made up of four tenants or leaseholders, four councillors who represent the four council areas and four local independent people.
East Kent Housing is part of an ongoing project to share services in
East Kent to give the best value for money to the taxpayer and make the best use of the councils’ resources and staff expertise. - Paulb no worries is the truth
hurting them . - I hope the service's are better than the present one. I have been waiting since January to have my gutter
fixed. - No I phoned about windows its still DDC they have farmed it out no new management when you phone you still go to housing repairs at Whitfield
- wasnt brendan ryan employed by DDC as an officer before leaving in disgust?
- Brendan went to Thanet
- Same guy then, thought so, left in disgust, went to thanet and now with this lot.
he's been around then - Very talented man .Breath of fresh air
- he was a loss to DDC very good officer but frustrated and left in
disgust.
- Brendan Ryan has been toiling away on the joint working regarding the housing since he was employed by
DDC. - my point got missed
- It is really great to see all those kids as mentioned in the editorial above
develop their business and enterprise skills in fine style. We can but hope and pray that there will be local jobs for all these fine young brains. Likewise it is also good to see that initiative mentioned above from The Chamber of
Commerce both here in Dover and further afield trying to plug the huge hole in local employment caused by the closure of Pfizer.
Perhaps the future lies in launching your own business these days, as highlighted by Mr Cameron last
week. There seems to be plenty of advice available now which is great. - good to see our up and coming have such talent.
good to see the harbour board so
involved with this project. - Agreed Howard on both points, nice start to the week with a positive news story.
- What a great front page for a Monday morning. It shows what potential Dover can generate in it’s young people.
The very best of luck to the Girls Grammar school team as they go forward to the Kent finals. This is where
investment in our young people has shown it can really pay off.
- Can some one please help,are we in Great Britain Part of the EU If so can some one explain why
this is not implemented Being a EU citizen you can travel across Europe without a passport and without being stopped at borders. so if Uk is a member state why do we have to show Passports In France can we refuse and why are we paying
1.5 million a day to be part of Europe. And dose any one think we could challenge this ruling in the courts. So basically any EU citizen can live ,work and retire in any EU member state if they wish so.
- I think you will find that we have chosen to keep our border controls is the reason Alan and quite rightly so.
- surely theres a case for a legal review on this subject barry.have put a full benifit of the eu4u on the main forum.
- The uk is not part of the Schenegen agreement, hence the need for passports.
- I suspect you will find most people, even those pro-EU, will want us
to keep at least some control over our own borders Brian.
Only fanatical EU extremists will disagree. - Barry Williams, I am not fanatical but would like to
come and go as i please when we go to France there is usually no one in the French boarder box at dover port so they don't care who goes over to France its on the way back in France we have to wait at the UK boarder Box sometimes 30- to
40 mins to get back to my country why cant we challenge it. surly its our right. - Great to see the Young People of Dover doing so well.
Also, just to show that
'our' Charlie is not all work and no play, here he is with ColetteB letting his hair down at the Silly Ball last friday evening.
- Alan
The rules state that British Citizens are free to move without let or hindrance. However they are required to confirm their nationality when asked to do so to either an immigration officer or a customs officer acting
as an immigration officer. This is normally normally satisfied by producing and showing a valid passport or other form of acceptable identitification.
The other point Alan is if they let everyone pass through the EU and British
lane and only did 'spot' checks it could lead to accusations of racism. What's required is not less control but more officers on the EU & British queue. - Brian, would you
object if non EU nationals using false EU ID cards and passports gained entry to the UK because we had no border control in place?
The reason your passport is checked is to confirm you are a UK citizen or an EU national and you are
the rightful holder of that passport. Once that is established you are free to move on.
A lot of non EU nationals attempt to gain entry to the UK using false EU passports. These people may be coming to work, claim benefits or for
criminal activity. They are certainly not coming for a two week visit to see the sights if they have gone to the trouble of obtaining this sort of document.
I know it is an inconvenience, but I would rather be inconvenienced than
defrauded. We are in tight economic climes and stopping people who are not entitled to the benefits that you as a Brit Cit are entitled to is one way of saving the pennies. - if they let everyone pass through the EU and British lane and only did 'spot' checks it could lead to accusations of racism. But is that not racism against there own people.
- mandy,this is not about fake eu ids its about the right of passage.
- barry,what a load of tosh you speak.the
sooner they get rid the border controlls at calais and dunkirk the better for the traverling public.
to be honest they a joke,and i am getting fed up along with the rest of the genrael public having a 10 pound rebooking
fee. - We are in tight economic climes and stopping people who are not entitled to the benefits that you as a Brit Cit are entitled to is one way of saving the pennies. The EU
bans discrimination. The EU believes our society is fairer and more efficient when we do not discriminate over race, religion, nationality, gender or any other factors. The first EU treaty contained a clear view that men and women have
equal pay and equal work. and you are discriminating with what you said in your last post all we wont to know is why we cant move around the EU and have to be checked to come into our own country are we part of the EU or Not if Yes i
don't need a passport. - The uk is not part of the Schenegen agreement, if this is the case then the 1.5 million a day should not be paid to be part of the EU and why are
we a member state if we have not singed is this double standards and surly we are either In or Out maybe Charlie could through some light on this one for us and make things a little clearer. - As a result of the United Kingdom’s hostility to the abolition of border checks, the Benelux countries, where the free movement of persons already existed, suggested that
France and Germany work together towards the gradual abolition of border checks among them. The five countries comprised the ‘Schengen Group’, named after the small village in Luxembourg where the borders of the Grand Duchy, France and
Germany meet. Here, on 14 June 1985, they signed an Agreement on the gradual abolition of checks at their common borders. Since not all countries of the Community of the Twelve wished to take part, the Schengen Group represented a
vanguard, the achievements of which would later be extended to other partners.
Indeed, the other countries of the Union successively joined the founding group: Italy on 27 November 1990, Spain and Portugal on 25 June 1991, Greece
on 6 November 1992, Austria on 28 April 1995 and Sweden, Finland and Denmark on 19 November 1996. Norway and Iceland, countries outside the Union, but members of the Nordic Passport Union, acceded to the Schengen area as associate
members on 19 December 1996. Only the United Kingdom and Ireland do not take part and maintain their own border checks.
- We are better off out Alan - integration has gone
much too far, so no we must not lose control of our borders.
One day we will be out, but for now we need to hang on to what little is left of our independence. - barry,thats a bit lame,since when have we lost any indiependance.come to think about it niether has france,belguim,germany and the other 20 or so members.
that bottle neck border has to go,sooner the
better. - Brian, we have lost independence all this money we pay to Europe would have helped to sort some of this deficit out then maybe the cuts would not have been so
bad.1.5 million a day money to Africa plus all the other aid its draining this country dry the government should start looking towards home and say sorry we have no money. we have the locals coming up i wonder if any one would jump on
this just to get votes - money spent by our government internationally whether on funding to the e.u. or aid to the third world would be wholly irrelevant in district
and town council elections. - Absolutely Howard.
There is a need to separate National and Local Government in these May elections.
DDC has been a very
good Council over the last 8 years; low Council tax, better services. A better overall strategy.
Whichever Government has been in since 2003, DDC has balanced the books; Labour said they would increase Council Tax by something
like 8%, 8% and 6% (if I'm wrong I'm sure these figures will be corrected), they were far higher than any of the Council tax increases implemented by the Conservatives since.
Roger
- You can not say that Roger over planning,the council,the strategy,by that do you mean closing the toilets might just had to that,by saying that was we not told after it had
been done up the toilet at the far end of the seafront would be open again. But it is a yes of the Council tax,so I would say it has been a very mixed bag some good and some mad. - alan,in answer to your post,1,you still walking/driving around.2,you get paid in £ sterling,so you are are along with the 60 million people independant.
- Lots of ladies are having birthday celebrations around here and it was none
other than Cllr Jan Tranter’s turn yesterday. So, digging deep into a recession hit pocket and a cobweb engulfed wallet... well I
figured it might be a tad more expensive than the average, one set out for the new Marina Hotel with former Mayor Jan in tow.
The seafront looked marvellous. It was basking in glorious spring sunshine as we took up position at the
restaurants panoramic window. On the right hand side we had the visiting Aida Cara cruise liner, and with eye sweeping across the bay to our left, we had the Spirit of Britain…couple all that to the newly designed seafront and the views
were marvellous.
The menu in the restaurant is small and precise. Mostly various beef dishes and all in the price range of between £24 and the £27 per plate. So not cheap! All local produce though, so very good and green in that
respect with for example…
Romney Marsh Lamb at £23.95
Medallions of Beef with Peppercorn and Brandy Sauce at £25.25.
There was one vegetarian option, and thankfully yes a few other dishes with less of a price tag. As it
happened neither of us wanted the beef at lunchtime so we settled on a delicious Creamy Tarragon of Chicken served with steamed vegetables and soft Duchess Potato Cakes. This was truly excellent and beautifully presented and at just
£13.50, left some room in the purse strings for a bottle of Sauvignon Blanc.
It was a very enjoyable lunch and the experience was fantastic. It is great to have an establishment or two in Dover where you can luxuriate on the odd
occasion.
One further note: there is also a bar menu which is set at much lower cost and features items like Burgers, which are always great for kids, Sandwiches and so on, so overall something for everybody…and no one at all
needs to be deterred from visiting. - PaulB
What a stunning photograph...hope Jan and yourself had a super
day. - Thanks Marek, ah yes indeed nice lunch in pleasant surroundings...the picture is not by myself, so I cannot take credit for it, but it came as part of an earlier press
release. Its a nice shot. There are changes since the pic was taken..the tables have gone for one and the planting has changed. No doubt the tables will be replaced with new stock. I think Howard earlier showed pictures of the new
planting. - Roger DDC hasn't balanced the books in 2 yeras,that is why the reserve has gone down,you could argue that if you don't include the Loss adjustment
then it balances,not sure of the amout as I am rushing but last years loss was about £200,00.Will con firm later. - JOHN
That's a very interesting comment, please furnish us
with more detail.
ROGER;
Let's be fair and unbiased if we are to give out such info,
in the past your frends and party have tried to push through rises in the councils council tax ranging from 17% to up to 35% or
more opposed by the labour group.
- kieth,please enlighten us.
- in the past cllr
watkins has tried to push up the ciouncil tax
council rents
etc etc
- OK had time to find the budget summary,
2009 /10 General
fund deficit £163,000 actual
2010 /1 original budget deficit £ 57,000
2010 /1 projected outturn £472,000
so the balanced budget Roger is talking about is in fact a projected loss of £635,000 in 2
years.
Reserves fell from £2.1 million to £1.7 in that time balanced budget? I don't think so,Roger you really should take notice at Council meetings.
- john
i
have a suspiscion that those figures will not be mentioned too loudly on campaign leaflets. - Other words that will be said quietly as I have found out canvassing
in Tower Hamlets this week, I am a Tory will you vote for me! - JOHN
Thanks for that information and im sure the labour party will
highlight these shortfalls over the next 4
weeks - What a shame -- heading for election, and it's back to the bickering, backbiting usual suspects. And these are the men who want to represent our Town? I've had enough
of it. Not one of them has any integrity. - REGISTER TO VOTE BY 14 APRIL 2011
With District, Town and Parish elections and a
UK-wide referendum taking place on Thursday 5 May, Dover District Council is urging voters to make sure they are registered to vote in time.
"The deadline to register is Thursday 14 April so if you're not already registered,
don't delay," says Electoral Registration Officer, Nadeem Aziz. It only takes a few minutes: call 01304 872344 or print off the form from www.aboutmyvote.co.uk
"The Electoral Commission, the independent elections watchdog, is
sending a booklet to every household in the UK with information about how to have your say on 5 May," says Phillippa Saray, Electoral Commission spokesperson. "Don't let the deadline and the chance to have your say pass you by!
"
The referendum is on the voting system used for elections to the UK Parliament. The question being put to voters on Thursday 5 May is:
"At present, the UK uses the 'first past the post' system to elect
MPs to the House of Commons.
Should the 'alternative vote' system be used instead?"
* *
The above is a press release just in from DDC. Many thanks guys.
- COALFIELDS REGENERATION TRUST GRANT AWARDS CELEBRATION
Representatives from 30
community and voluntary groups that have benefited from a total of £100,000 Bridging the Gap funding over the past year were invited to a Grant Awards Celebration at Dover District Council offices on Wednesday 23 March.
The
Community Development Team at Dover District Council organised this celebration for the voluntary and community groups who had received funding from the Bridging the Gap small grants programme. This is a Coalfields Regeneration Trust
funding initiative administered in partnership with DDC working with the local community.
Funding has been given for a wide variety of different projects for people in the former coalfields community over the year, ranging from
cultural and educational initiatives to sports, refurbishment and other projects to help benefit community life.
The event at Dover District Council’s offices in Whitfield followed the three year Bridging the Gap funding
programme, which has seen £300,000 being awarded to a total of 68 community groups within the district.
Peter McNestry, Chair of the Board of Trustees for the Coalfields Regeneration Trust attended the evening and announced a
further £30 million of funding from the Department for Communities and Local Government over the next two years. This will enable the Trust to continue supporting the social and economic regeneration of the English Coalfields. £100,000
of this fund has been allocated to be awarded to community groups in former coalfield areas of Dover District, allowing the continuation of the Bridging the Gap funding programme for a further
year. - This continuation of funding for CRT was very much unexpected
by everyone, Mr McNestry himself said that the Minster who gave him the good news, even looked surprised.
I did start a thread on the forum, called “credit where credit due”. This extension is so much welcomed and so important,
for the many projects that are ongoing in our communities. It might even go further than just funding projects, they will soon decide on funding for local NEW business ventures, giving expert advice and financial help in the form of
interest free loans to local entrepreneurs getting their small business’s off the ground. That would be a great help to many people within our communities.
CRT and Bridging the Gap, are great to work with, they are very keen to
help with our community projects. Carol Davies is the contact at Whitfield for BtG and she does a great job and will always help, with any assistance you need to make a claim or for just a bit of advice.
- Alan a statement was made by Roger that I know was incorrect so I corrected it
- There is a thread on the members
page re a low flying grey unmarked plane flying low over Dover yesterday, at 1145 today a plane fitting the description flew very low over the Lord of the Manor roundabout Ramsgate heading towards Manston. The plane did not land went
back to normal height and flew inland, there were no markings except for a small red area on the fuselage near the tail, not a lot of help I know but some sort of test flights for approach to Manston may be the
answer. - Martin.
I worked at Manston, cargo handler, for a short while, that sounds like a red cross cargo plane. They used to fly from Manston on a regular basis back
then, not seen one for quite a while now. - alan;
if any of your post is aimed at me i have no interest in wanting to represent our
district/town - keith
my understanding is that alan was referring to the electioneering of roger and john. - Keith No sir not at you at all just a general quote i got from a friend in Canada thought it apt for our locals coming up.
- Superb photo Paul B, hopefully the TV were there to capture it for the local news.
IN THE WEEK CAMERON STALLS HIS NHS REFORMS –
SHADOW HEALTH MINISTER VISITS DOVER & DEAL
The Shadow Minister for Health, Derek Twigg took the High Speed Train to Dover on Tuesday to support Labour’s local election
campaign on the day after Mr Cameron ordered his Secretary of State for Health to halt progress on his radical plans to re-organise our National Health Service.
Mr Twigg then travelled to Deal to meet residents in Birdwood Avenue
and Diane Gardens before meeting up with a locally based GP to discuss the impact of the Tory proposals for restructuring the NHS.
Mr Twigg said: “I enjoyed my visit to Dover and Deal and I was interested to
hear local people’s views of the Tory cuts and their worries about the radical changes being proposed for the NHS.
“Gwyn and his Labour team introduced me to dozens of residents who told me about the problems they faced paying
their bills and their fear of rising unemployment following the closure of Pfizers.
“After our canvass session we met up with Dr Sally Russell who practices at the Cedar Surgery in Marine Road and she told me about her concerns at
the Government’s so-called NHS reforms. Sally echoed many of the criticisms that Labour are making about the Tory plans which could lead to creeping privatisation, a market led approach to health care and a poorer level of service for
patients.”
The above is a press release from Labour.
The picture shows Shadow Health Minister Derek Twigg with our former MP Gwyn Prosser.- great pic, i got down there about half 6 was about to give up when they finally arrived.
- paulb,great picture, saw them myself from my front garden
around 07 30 ish. - I wonder what your glorious leader PB makes of Hugh Grant's views on The Gateway? See thisiskent dot co dot uk for the full story...
- i always thought he went on the turn when he changed from his real name to his screen name.
mind you, hugh jarse wouldn't have set him
up for many romatic leads. - lol!! Rhys I naturally am devastated bigtime that Ferrari Hugh of Notting Hill, and publican Paul McMullan erstwhile newshound of Fleet
St, are planning to flatten whole sections of The Gateway. This, I take it, is so that the Castle Inn will have panoramic sea views now only enjoyed by the retired elderly folk of said Gateway flats , heartwarming elderly individuals
all, who've done their bit for King and country.....
Should yours truly's flat be one to go, I can move without much inconvenience to the seafront shelter which is quite nearby and often houses waifs and strays in need of
accomodation....lol! - Mr Prosser must never stand again in dover someone else may be but not him. dose not matter how bad the blues get if he stands no one will
vote - I think Labour have burdened themselves locally now Alan with the all-woman shortlist...who the women will be is anybody's guess. Hopefully we wont have one of
those House of Common selected trainees trust upon us, local people should be given the chance if at all possible.
Bet the local Labour Group were pleased to see the Shadow Health Minister pay a visit locally, enabling them to
make hay of the Governments and Lansleys embarassment over the stuttering NHS reforms ( scroll below).
* *
By the way meant to say earlier thanks guys on the comments re the
photo above...dont forget to check the other pictures from the guys in the Forum section. Here's an extra pic for good measure...
Ballooons whipping across the top of the Castle Keep!
Pity there wasnt a flag flying
though... - forgot all about the ladyperson only shortlist, from what i hear there is not a rush of candidates locally.
i would imagine if that if
headquarters decide who can go on the list then they will have no qualms about imposing a candidate from outside.
i can hear charlie cracking open the champagne now. - the baloons look great and hopfully lots of dosh raised
on labour, it appears the woman only shortlist will be in place
thus will make it that much more
difficult for labour to regain this seat.
I Won't be voting if it stays in place, and that will come hard to me - I was wondering where the union flag is that normally
flies so majestically on the Castle? - I think the staff usually put it up when they arrive in the morning, and dependant on the weather if it is the big one or
small 
- Was an amazing
sight to see the Balloons this morning as I was driving to work, nice work guys with all the pictures. - The flag is always there and depending on the weather and wind
speed they change the size...I would imagine that something is broken and waiting for repairs as the only reason that there is no flag this week. - When are we
going to be able to show video a little Prog like Tiny Pic
Would do the job. - I believe that the flag is only flown when the Brigadier is in residence.
- Still no flag today but maybe there has been a fault, didnt member Diana in the Forum say that she thought the flagpole had temporarily disappeared. And Tess mentions
something similar below..possibly broken. But whatever the situation its there now, replaced perhaps, but still no flag. Or alternatively maybe the Brigadier is on holiday, picked good weather for it!
But yes its a pity as its
always good to see the flag flying high, particularly as this is a busy weekend for tourists. Ive taken a straw pole on my ready reckoner and I can tell there has been an upsurge in visitors this week and particularly last
night...
The new ship, The Spirit of Britain, is working hard and looking good. Here she is entering the alternative entrance last evening, the main entrance being busy, in the low lovely springtime
sun. Whisking all those extra visitors off to continental joy.
- I had a visit around the Constable's Tower in the late 80s with Ray Warner. The then Deputy
Constable explained the flags to us.
Any public site has only one union flag and it's always flown from the highest flagpole, which is the keep, unless royalty is on site when the Royal Standard is raised. The Deputy
Constable's flag is flown only from the Constable's Tower - previous to that time every new deputy had his own flag newly designed, but that got so expensive that it was decided the next one would be a once and forever design for all
subsequent deputies.
That was over 20 years ago though, might have changed since then. - The rumbling
sound of chinooks filled the air at lunchtime again today. This time just the one though. It came in low across the town just outside my field of view so I dont know if anyone got a better shot of it sweeping inwards. It left then across
the harbour some minutes later and you just get one chance at it and here it is.
A few minutes after this 'flypast' happened the chinook was featured on the lunchtime news in the BBC report on defence cuts. It was
shown as a battlehardened workhorse tool in Afghanistan. - Oooh its murder most foul....
Here is
the latest news just in from Richard Esdale who as many will know, does much to keep theatre alive in Dover... This could indeed be an exciting evening at the TOWN HALL..... a murder mystery and a 3 course dinner and all for just £25.
Its not until June 18 so definitely one for the diary, but get in quick for the best seats.
* *
There will be tables of 2/4/8/10 - 1 ticket free for tables of 8 or 10!! - Great fun night out, 3 course
meal, Dinner Theatre, Fully Licensed Bar... Wear whatever you like but it will add to the atmosphere and fun if you wear 'Murder' fancy dress!!!
KEEP ENTERTAINMENT ALIVE IN DOVER!
"Play with your
food!"
For tickets: Call or text 07920 255493 - Email: jiginthebox@hotmail.co.uk -
Visit: www.wix.com/jiginthebox/jiginthebox for more details...
- The murder mystery night sounds fun but what's a 'murder fancy dress' ...blood covered
suit?...lol - Just walked past a house in Shepherdswell noticed a poster in a window, Hansell for Council quite catchy isn't
it? - you will be voting for reg then?
well known in shepherdswell. - He's the only
candidate i'v seen poster of,and yes I will vote for him, non party politician, - BOBBY.
We are in need of leaflet posters.Please give us a call 830431 if you can
help!!! - i must admit when i saw the heading i was expecting "susan loves nigel".
- Some more instant news for you...This magnificent tall ship rounded the lighthouse and came into the harbour a minute or two ago. No doubt it will be on view today so I know many forumite
readers will want to have a look. Our good friend and top forumite Colin, now sadly departed, would have loved to go down there and get a pic or two of this beauty.
Its hazy this morning and as the pic is taken from a distance its
not terribly clear. I was unable to make out the name of the vessel.
Lol Howard...if I get a scoop on Nigel and Susan or if I see them down here writing love letters will let everyone know!!
lol - Nothing more romantic than a tall ship, sailing into harbour on a sunny morning or love letters hand written in the sand or on paper and tied up in red
ribbon. We girls love a bit of romance thats for sure. - now tied up on the cruise terminal berths.
- Ah
yes I see her Brian nestling over there...
oh no I feel another poem coming on, someone gimme a tranquiliser. It must be all this romance in the air.
I must go down to the sea again
to the lonely sea and the sky
and all I
ask is a tall ship
and a star to guide her by..
There you are, I think that's the end of my literary shenanigans for the day. - I thought the Spike
Milligan poem was funnier though:
I must go down the the sea again,
to the lonely sea and the sky,
I left my woolly vest there,
I wonder if it's dry.
Good old Spike.
Roger
- bit of a culture festival on the front page today.
puts margate and their new art gallery to shame. - Ah thats so lovely above nice to see romance isnt dead
For Peter Garstin. Just in case he could not get a Dover Express at the Post Office.
- very obtuse reg, what are you actually saying?
- Thank you Reg, I have read the article, why
do you think it particularly interests me, I am not involved in parish (or any other) politics?
Dover Conservatives Sell Out to Shepway Say Labour.
At the full meeting of Dover District Council on Wednesday 23 March, the council’s Conservative majority decided to go ahead with plans for legal and personnel work for a joint Chief Executive for Dover and
Shepway councils.
Gordon Cowan (left), Labour county councillor for Dover, says: “This decision by the current Conservative administration at Dover is another disaster for the District
Council. Any short-term savings made by having a single Chief Executive will be swallowed up in redundancy payments and consultancy fees. And at least £25,000 will be handed over to consultants and lawyers whether this ill-advised
marriage goes ahead or not.”
Mike Eddy, Labour spokesman for local government finance in Dover, says: “The reality behind this is that the two councils have very little in common except that it may be a marriage of
political convenience at the moment. Shepway has pulled out of most of the shared services which Dover has with other East Kent councils. But more importantly for people in Dover district, Shepway’s council tax levels are substantially
higher than those in Dover and Deal. It is quite clear that the Conservatives on DDC will want to bring council tax levels in line with Shepway’s. They brought car parking charges “in line” with Canterbury’s, even though the towns are
very different, and our town centres have suffered from that.”
Mike Eddy adds: “The Conservatives are determined to waste several thousands of pounds on this. There are other pressing calls on the council’s finances – like
answering a pledge to local taxi drivers to pay half the cost of a user survey. We could pay that, honouring a promise to help local small businesses, and have money left over.”
The above is a Labour press release.
* *
We welcome press releases from all parties. Send to Paul Boland on dover7@msn.com.- Did anyone
see the Spitfire Saturday afternoon, being shadowed and filmed I would imagine by two helicopters. What a glorious sight flying back and forth along the White Cliffs. - Yes I
saw them while in Tower Hamlets 1 spitfire plus 2 helicopters - For an explanation of why Barry has got it wrong in his Auf Wiedersehen Pet thread, google 'Damian Collins AV' and
click on the link to my blog... - The tall ship which Paul saw yesterday was the German sail training ship Alexander von Humboldt.
She has visited on previous
occasions, see the Magazine Archive - Extra No.6 (www.doverforum.com/magazine/article.php?id=42) - thanks for info ed, my memory says that usually the tall ships that visit
here are dutch training ships. - Good Photos PaulB - well done.
Looks like there may not have been too many people down there, or maybe just the way the photos
were taken.
I know the people in the photos apart from the young lad and the older man, what's their relevance ?
Hope the exhibition grows during the week.
Well done to Steve (next to the older man above) for
hosting the exhibition and to Greg (seen with the Mayor in the middle two photos) for organising it, gathering the photos and doing the framing etc.
Roger - Hellooo Roger, you got in there with that post before I had time to finish and all names and details are added now...and all hopefully correct. Correct at the time of going to press..to use that familiar
terminology.
Yes the exhibition seems to be going very well. The might of the Dover Express also sauntered in yesterday in the guise of Yam the Man and Phil Medgett, so plenty of publicity is the
key. - good set of pictures, will try to get down there today and see it all for myself.
- Picture of another warship .. yes looks like another one being towed to the boneyard for scrapping. It was clearly being pulled by a tugboat at 200 yards range or so in front of it and was not
operating under its own steam. This happening out in the channel 20 minutes ago or so.
A sad sight. Obviously its a long way out so couldnt get greater clarity.
I dont know if anyone can furnish any details of these
shipping movements.
Ed thanks for that info on the Tall Ship further down the page. Well done as ever. - Interesting thread on the members page re poor TV
reception in the Gateway flats, it must be extremely annoying for the residents, it made me wonder if Calais suffers the same problems? or are we keeping to the broadcasting "rules" and they are
not? - PaulB looking on shipfinder.co ( yes .co not .com) it looks like the tug is MTS Viscount, no sign of anything behind it though. Probably on the " bit too secret
list" !
Its an interesting website to track shipping. - Thanks for that Andy, good to hear from you down there in France.
Martin yes very annoying but
no I dont think our Citizens of the Republic are experiencing too much difficulty in Calais because even I can pick up all their channels no problem at all. Good stations too, I like that ARTE one which seems to show lots of nature
programmes and looks spectacular. When you can pick up nothing else its great but unfortunately I dont understand what they are saying. Sigh! - The ship being
towed down channel by the tug MTS Viscount is HMS Bristol. Due to arrive back at Portsmouth tomorrow noon after a lengthy refit on the Tyne. She was decommissioned twenty years ago and serves as the harbour training ship permanently
berthed at Whale Island in Portsmouth Harbour. She is quite unique being the only Type 82 guided missile destroyer to have been constructed and the refit will enable her to remain in service for another ten years. - just taken another look at the photos from the albert.
tony has his usual lecherous look on his face, we can see where his left hand is but not the right one.
her
worshipful the mayor has a knowing smile on her face and the new town clerk looks delirious.
not that i draw any conclusions from that. - A plesant time
yesterday at The Abandoned Dover Exhibition, looking at the photos and meeting the sponsers.
Also afterwards we enjoyed a light lunch. - Yes Howard, I was
alternating my attention between Sue and Alison as you quite rightly guessed!
I shall now consider retirement and possibly seek out replacement employment as a Rod Hull tribute act.
Thankfully Paulb cropped me out of the
other two pictures of Sue and Greg. - Here is a picture just in...taken by Forumite Tony Jayms.
It shows our MP Charlie Elphicke visiting
the Abandoned Dover exhibition at the Prince Albert cafe/bar on sunday. In the background you can just see one of the pictures on show and one of the specialist frames made from driftwood. The picture on the wall behind Charlie is of
course one of Greg McKenzie's from the Exhibition but also note the frame was built by Greg too...from driftwood. Not only can he master a camera in fine style but is pretty good with a hammer also.
Ah nooo Tony re post
below, you werent cropped out of those shots above in the editorial. They were ones I took of just the Mayor and Greg, at that moment in time you were at the bar with that Jan Tranter...oooh she gets everywhere!
You must be mixing
my photos up with that other whipper snapper young Phil Medgett which will no doubt appear in the Dover Express out thursday.
Ed - many thanks as ever for that info below. Yer a star for sure.
How would we
manage.... 
Striking looking Cruise Liner just arrived minutes ago. It is called the
AidaSol. Has similiar colours to other ships in the line but this one is much bigger and I believe is on a maiden voyage although I have heard nothing official.
Very big, very impacting, as it glides past a chaps rear window. The
pic doesnt do it justice. Might be able to add another pic in a minute. Yes there we are...second one added now.- Thanks Paul for letting everyone know about the
Murder Mystery Night, Dinner Theatre in the Town Hall on 18th June. - If you haven't booked your ticket yet then contact jiginthebox@hotmail.co.uk or visit "www.wix.com/jiginthebox/jiginthebox" for more info... - Reg,
don't know if you look in often but it was nice talking to you on the phone.
Your poster is now displayed in my front window.
can you
tell me Reg, is Eythorne part of the ward?
Also I noted passing your house that your poster board outside your home had been damaged. - Bobby,
I
always check out the Dover Forum. I know several Bob`s in the Viiage.
Are you in Millfields? If so we still need help with our leaflets. 830431.
Yes the Shepherdswell ward consists of Eythorne.Elvington.Barfreston,Denton &Wooton
villages and yes we do have an election poster `terrorist`who bombards my poster in the front garden with half bricks.
Is it you?---I`ve got the finger prints!! - REG;
It wouldn't be me I have your poster in my window, do you know who your enemy is that would do such a thing?
is politics that dirty?
what's your prospect of winning?
had a labour leaflet very
glossy, surprized the conservative one not up to much.
for me reg you are a breath of fresh air
you do know me reg i live 5 streets away from you
but not giving you any more info
if you ring me again i will put some
leaflets in my road
if that helps - Re. the demolition of the MFI building on the corner of Castle Street and Maison Dieu Road.
Can anyone remember what was there before the MFI building was built? Also on
the end of building in Castle Street there is a sign for what appears to be a garage. Can anyone remember which garage that sign was for?
- Southern Autos, they also
had a salesroom in Deal. - Thanks for the info about Southern Autos.
- A large chunk of the seafront is closed from The Premier Inn to the Yacht Club for re-surfacing. Nigel Collor our DDC man knowledgeable in all things of this nature might be able to let us know more, there are
signs all over the place warning people to beware. I believe it will take 6 days. - there was a sign earlier about a road closure, as there was no evidence of
work taking place i assumed it was another prank. - Southern Auto's were a Ford main dealer
- Another photo of the new road-surfacing in action on the seafront. The management of the Premier Inn were out showing concerns, it will affect their business. The road is of course blocked
off. - Trevor & Paul
Re Old MFI site
Have you any idea when Southern Autos left that site? I see that they were a Ford dealer. I think I am right in
remembering Thom(p)sons garage on the junction of WoolcomberStreet and St James Street were also a Ford dealer. Did they open up after Southern Autos left?
- I think
Thompsons took the Ford Franchise from Southern Autos. The Deal showrroom changed hands at same time & continued selling other cars until it shut down & was converted into three shops. - there was a ford dealership down cherrytree avenue where aldis is now.
- In response to PaulB's excellent pictures of the
AIDAsol, this new cruise ship was indeed calling at Dover on its maiden voyage. She was christened in Kiel on 9 April and is the latest in a series of new builds for AIDA Cruises, part of the Carnival Corporation which also owns P&O
Cruises and Cunard. AIDA seem to be developing a good relationship with Dover and are brining many German tourists to Dover, hence my previous thread about welcoming these passengers to our shores. Next year will also see the arrival
of another new build, AIDAmar. I took some pictures of the AIDAsol on Wednesday but have not had an opportunity to upload them as yet. - Puzzled. Before MFI That site
was used by Townsend car ferries for their camping hire service. They used to hire out caravans and tents to tourists. I worked in the filling station opposite, which then became a car hire site. Maybe that is the garage referred to.
- Good post there Kevin and thanks for all that information. That is indeed good news about our increase in German visitors, all thanks to this new AIDA relationship
with Dover. Long may it continue.
The AIDAsol left the other night..oh I dunno...sometime around 8.30pm.. and she was a total blaze of light. I didnt think it was possible to have that many lights in any one place...but it just
looked fab. 
Novelty Idea for All the Family....and very colourful
too!
KITE SPECTACULAR JUST ACROSS THE CHANNEL
For a truly spectacular sight this Easter check out Europe’s biggest kite festival just across the Channel at the seaside town of Berck-sur-
Mer.
Specialist kite fliers from all over the world take over the huge beach for the annual event, which is celebrating its 25th anniversary and runs from 16-25 April.
Highlights include contests for nimble stunt kites,
carefully choreographed team displays and vast drogues in fantastic animal shapes, including the largest in the world, a 150 metre long stingray.
Berck is just an hour’s drive along the coast from Calais and P&O Ferries offers a
choice of 23 sailings a day on its 90-minute Dover – Calais service, with fares from £23 return for a car and passengers.
Further information at www.POferries.com (08716 646464) and www.cerf-volant-berck.com
EDIT NOTE:
Have just added the picture of the Kite top left. This was taken at our own Kite Festival here in Dover a few years back. It was alas alas a short lived festival. It opened and died after one brief flurry under Dover's
summer sun. What ever happened to that idea??
- Hi Andy. In the sixties and seventies I worked in an office at 5 Castle Street (now a tattoo
parlour) and lived in the flat above. What is now a van rental firm was previously Kenning Car Hire and before that a filling station. The MFI site was indeed the camp hire depot having moved from Dour Street, now Adams printers.
Before that however it was Southern Autos the main Ford dealer in Dover.
I've tried to find some pictures to no avail, perhaps Bob and Kath might have one. - FYI:
The Southeastern Olympic timetable is now under consultation until 6 May 2011 and intends to remove all highspeed services for Dover Priory for the
duration of the games. - If we on about garages do you remember Martin Walters in Castle Street. Thompsons Ford Garage and Henleys next
door to one another opposite the swimming pool. - Thanks to all of those who responded to my post about the old MFI site. I was working in Castle Street at number 13 in
1977 / 78 but I cannot remember what was on the site at the time. Does anyone know when the MFI building was built?
I remember the Townsend Thoresen site in Dour Street.
Thomsons (or Thompsons, not sure of the spelling) did
move to the site in Cherry Tree which Aldi then built on.
- I must admit that couldn't remember the name of the firm that Southern Autos "morphed" into, thanks
Puzzled. Were you at 13 when Charlie the photographer was in the basement? Or was he there later? - My memory is continuing to play tricks on me.
77/78 I was
working at that end of Castle Street but not quite sure what the number was. Later in 1980 I was at 13 Castle Street and I do remember Charlie the photographer in the basement but not sure when he moved in there.
Those were the
days when a lot of forwarders / customs clearance ahents had offices in Castle Street
- Ah! love the Bearkite, I went there with the girls a few years back for that
very festival at Berck-sur-Mer, it was very enjoyable and well worth the trip. - Didnt realise you had been to that Kite Festival ColetteB (see below for details). It
certainly would be a photographers dream...all those kites and all that colour, one couldnt miss with the camera. Prices seem very good value too.
But....look at this...just in..
Just had another update on
fares in from P&O and it may be helpful to some guys popping over generally...will reproduce it in a minute when I find it...yes here we are.
LATEST OFFER JUST IN : FRANCE FOR
£2 !!!! P&O Offer
*HOT FOOT IT TO FRANCE FOR JUST £2 WITH P&O FERRIES*
For an affordable day out with a difference P&O Ferries has a special offer for foot passenger
day trip fares on its Dover – Calais service during the Easter school holidays and into May.
Prices are from just £2 per person midweek for foot passenger day trips, and even with a weekend travel supplement only rise to
£6.
The offer is available for travel between 15 April and 8 May.
- I work at No 25 Castle Street 77/78 when it was mostly Freight
Agents. - It's £46 return Jersey - St Malo for a day trip with less than 5 hours on shore! That's what happens when you have a monopoly like Condor Ferries have at
present. - That works out at about 50p a mile for an 80 mile round trip which seems reasonable for a gas guzzling fast craft. The alternative is not to make enough dosh to
make it commercially viable and consequently lose the route, as happened with the Norman Arrow on Dover-Boulogne.
The fares charged on Dover-Calais and Dover-Dunkerque are artificially low as a consequence of competing with the
tunnel and are unsustainable in the long run. The tunnel has the advantage of having written off seven tenths of its construction cost, albeit it is still struggling even to service the remaining three tenths.
What will happen
to Dover if the port is privatised/communitised and has a debt mountain of £400m to service is open to question. - Re- cost of journeys.
My son and the 5 man gang he
works with, on repairing rail track have just returned from a job which was just outside Barnsley, a 524 mile round trip. They were away 3 days, stayed in a hotel, worked 2, 8 hour shifts and replaced 3 sleepers. Considering they work
for a sub company, can anyone tell me the sense or reason for this, apart from the obvious greed element with some fat cat getting fatter?
- I have just read Roger Walkden's
post- 186 - on the information kiosk thread. Can I just add to Paul and Phil's comments and say I really take exception to his comments regarding WHPS involvement with regard to Richard Mahoney having to pull out of running the Grand
Shaft.
WHPS have no jurisdiction over what happens to this site, if Richard has now been told he cannot open the site it is down to DDC and due to the work he has done without permission.
As an active WHPS member I am very
upset with his comments, as a society we are actively working towards getting this site open more often and initiative is welcome.
I for one am sorry that this has not worked out as planned.
The best way to promote Dover is
not to publish defamatory remarks about an organisation that is working hard to attract people into the town. So I would appreciate it if Roger did not put idle gossip into print. - looks like money well spent at the ramada.
love the colour scheme looks very relaxing. - Ed, Thanks for putting the £46 in a different context of
approx 50p per mile. Comparing this to the cost of running a car per mile in the UK (as quoted in car mags @ around 40p per mile) it takes on a different perspective.
I see things slightly differently on the local channel
crossings. Comparison to Eurotunnel is a little difficult as it is infrastructure owner and fleet owner & operator.
Ferry companies have to offer deals to fill space generated by the operation of a mainly turn up and go service.
DHB are an on cost to them which is fixed and cannot be changed. They do have fleet costs as operator.
Whilst DHB has no infrastructure asset construction debt as it was written off hundreds of years ago.
DHB have a
captive market in the ferry companies who appear to take all the risk, commercially.
The ferry companies have an additional income source, over Eurotunnel, of onboard services. By offering lower transit costs they hope to increase
their onboard service sales which work on a fixed cost. Making greater profit from on board sales. A very difficult balance they must manage.
My sympathies are with the ferry operators who take all the risk.
I'm sure
others will see it differently from this. - Sorry Ed missed your point on Dover Port sale.
Greater minds than ours will be spending many hours assessing whether a
debt can be funded when purchasing the Port.
If they think that it is worth it then the Port will sell. If they don't it won't. Some might want it for the long haul. Others might just want to asset strip.
I have no
fortune telling gift so I will wait and see. - Very true, Graham. At present DHB have no infrastructure asset construction debt. It was not actually written off several
hundred years ago as there was not much to write off when the assorted private owners of the day begged the monarch for help. Subsequent monarchs then invested huge sums from the national purse to keep the port in existence. Thereupon
the crucial national investment came when the immense encircling breakwaters of the Admiralty Harbour were constructed at the start of the twentieth century at an astronomic cost which would equate to billions in todays money. The
construction of the whole new port in the Eastern Docks in the last half century, and all the other developments, have been funded entirely from the profits made from operating this nationally owned infrastructure, with no debt involved.
My point regarding the ferries is that privatisation of the port from which they run will add substantially to the berthing charges which they will have to pay as the port will have a £400m debt mountain to service. This is an
additional cost which the ferries companies presently do not have to bear. It is significant that the huge loss made by their competitor, Eurotunnel, last year was entirely made up of the amount they paid to service their remnant £3
billion debt after writing off £7 billion of the £10 billion cost of construction.
Nobody is making money at the moment and fares will eventually have to rise on the ferries and on the tunnel. The idea that ferry fares can be
subsidised by onboard spend is largely illusory. This belongs to the long gone days of duty free sales of immense quantities of cheap fags and booze. The profits to be made from the present shops and catering outlets are small beer by
comparison. Promotions such as the £2 fare mentioned are just a desperate attempt to make something, however little, from spaces which would otherwise be empty, but the profits to be made don’t amount to a hill of beans in the scheme of
things.
- Lovely Pictures there showing the Fabulous new refurbishment of The Ramada Hotel. They have certainly done Dover proud with both hotels. Thats the three wise
men propping up the bar there PaulB putting all things right for Dover! Nestling up to Trevor indeed, Would I !!!!!!!! - Mandy, good afternoon to you.
At your prompting I
took a look at the post #186, you mention and note that it includes this sentence, "If the WHPS had no involvement in the decision to keep it closed to visitors, then I apologise to them, but that is what I've heard."
Perhaps the
one true weapon against gossip is better information exchange?
- A good spead of pictures showing the Ramada they certianly aim to make their mark in Dover, for
quality hotels with the Ramada at the top of the hill and The Marina on the seafront. - Point taken Tom. The reason why the Western Heights Preservation Society has
not made a statement to the effect that we are not involved in the Shaft opening is simply that we have tried distance ourselves from the whole ongoing affair. After all, communications and actions between Mr. Mahoney and DDC are private
a matter for them, not us as a volunteer group of enthusiasts.
Just to re-iterate WHPS have no jurisdiction over the Shaft and have no sway whatsoever in its opening. Unfortunately as Roger Walkden has now brought us into the
equation and erroneously linked us we might have to now make a statement. - Tom, I agree that there should be communication between any involved parties. However, as
WHPS were not involved or asked to be involved there was no need to communicate with either of the parties dealing with this matter.
My objection is that Roger Walkden has dragged WHPS name into something that has nothing to do
with them, it strikes me as unprofessional to publish unsubstantiated tittle tattle, even with an added proviso that it may not be true, even though that is what Roger apparently heard. I would be interested to know who his sources are,
I'm guessing "bloke in the pub said!" so therefore it must be true. Frankly I would expected better from a councillor. - Sirs,
I read your forum and noticed you have
a lady by the name of
Kathy? who has some kind of involvement with the dover express.
the thursday before last in my village the express in the local post office was not delivered until after 2pm according to the post
office.
I travelled to shepherdswell at 1000 am and got my copy there.
Kathy, did you have a distribution problem that day?
Many elderly are not as lucky as I in being able to go to shepherdswell.
Sure the express
readership would have gone down in Eythorne that day - Chastened, it is I am.
An 'innocent abroad' indeed. Little did I realise that what I quoted was perhaps
no more that a local-political get out clause.
Certainly somebody involved in local politics should strive to set matters aright rather than stir-up disquiet.
I fully appreciate that non involvement in something is a difficult
point to get across and that those with actual responsibility should have the courage to admit their part.
"Roger...over..."
- Tom, I am given
to understand that a brief one sentence response is frowned upon on this site.
But I only really have one thing to say to you and that is :)
- mandy,that is what may i
ask. - Brian a smiley face :)
Sorry I am so down with the kids innit and get all this messaging slang stuff !!!!!
Ok so I don't, but I have a teenage daughter so have
to learn some of it otherwise all her messages may as well be in code. - mandy,my comizarations for having a teenage daughter,i know how you feel having 3 daughters of my
own.lukerly they have all growm up now.
keer your chin and smile. - How the Grand Shaft entrance could have looked with some cardboard cut outs.
Uniform is correct
for a soldier of 1812.
- Love it Graham - that looks really good and eyecatching. If only the painting
had been done on moveable screens everyone would have been happy.
What your lovely pic is missing is a Sean Bean as Richard Sharpe cutout carrying a flag and brandishing a captured French eagle at passers by! - First of all I apologise, as I said I would, if the WHPS were not involved in any influence or decision-making as regards not allowing Richard Mahony to open the Grand-Shaft.
I
do not make "bloke down the pub said this" kind of statements.
I was told personally last night that WHPS did not have any involvement whatsoever in that decision and accept that - fully.
I know that DDC own the Grand-
Shaft, but also fully understand that the Inspector of Ancient Monuments for Kent does NOT agree with the decision NOT to allow it to open.
There has been no actual damage to the walls at all, so it must just be punishment for
doing the painting.
Once gain, my apologies to the WHPS - I know you all do very, very good voluntary work for Dover's historic sites, especially your monthly clean-ups and open days on the
Heights.
Roger - Roger, thank you for your apology and I apologise for the tone of my posts, in retrospect I was angry and maybe my post was more offensive
towards you than it should have been.
If you require information regarding WHPS involvement with any local dealings regarding the Western Heights we are fully contactable, details on our website, and we will be happy to clarify
any queries you have prior to going into print to ensure no misinformation is put out to the public.
Once again thank you. - Mountain and molehill springs to mind.
LOL
Yes it was wrong but it has been done and it is only paint that could be removed if it is that offensive.
We should be encouraging tourism not doing all that is possible to deter people from spending their money here
rather than Canterbury for example.
Time for someone to deliver the ticking off and then let the place open as soon as possible . - Thanks Phil. Can't take credit for
the idea I just copied the theme off of some of my snaps from a holiday in Egypt. The entrances to some of the temples along the Nile do similar things.
You have a brilliant idea, although made tongue in cheek, about Sean
Bean
If all the groups could get together, agree a non defacing/damaging refresh of the Grand Shaft, then organise a joint opening with some sort of re enactment. That would be the time to try and get Sean Bean to open the refurb
officially. Great publicity opportunity.
A little out of the box thinking there.
Never happen, it relies on ego’s in different groups working together for the good of Dover. - Thank you Mandie - it is a sincere apology too, not just words.
I genuinely do not want to bring the WHPS into any kind of disrepute.
What I do want, is for (almost)
any kind of sensible tourism initiative to be promoted and encouraged; if it doesn't work as it first appears, then it can be tweaked to make it work.
A "CAN DO" attitude, not NO can do.
Roger
- Roger I am with you on that whole heartedly.
I am passionate about my town, I think we have so much to offer and we need people who will go out of their way to promote
what we have and who are willing to give a little of their spare time to make that happen.
We have so much to be proud of and so many sites we should be showing off to visitors.
If those people, paid and volunteer groups alike,
that are working towards this aim pull together, consult each other and support each other we could go some way towards this.
You may know this, but are their regular networking events where these sort of links can be
forged? - Thanks Roger again. I guess we are a little oversensitive these days as in the last couple of months we have had to put up with the theft of a £1000 worth of equipment,
continual racist graffiti, turf thefts, and other incidents all culminating in ongoing discussions with Kent Police. Having us publicly associated with the Grand Shaft decorating and opening business was the icing on the proverbial cake.
It’s all so unwelcome – we are after all a very small group of volunteers who all have day jobs and limited free time. I totally acknowledge that it’s not your fault if you have been fed disinformation. It’s probably best just to leave
the matter there and move on.
It would be good if you, and any other reader, could come up to the Open Weekend on the 11th and 12th June. We’ve just had a stunning discovery that has cast a whole new light on a phase of the
operational history of the fort that we hope to have on display for the first time.
Graham – lovely as it would be to have Sean Bean appear, I think he might just break the bank! If only…
- On the Sean Bean thing. You could add belated birthday wishes to any promotional material you send him, he was 52 yesterday.
All together now...
"Happy birthday to
Sean..." - Phil,
Didn't think of it as a paid service from Sean Bean. More of making him a patron of the fortification in some way.
I believe
normally famous people are happy to do this and an opening at no cost if approached correctly. The return for them is the publicity.
Good luck with the work you do. - 101 ways to make tarmac look interesting...!!
The hi vizzz team laying out the parking situation on the newly surfaced roadway just a few minutes ago. The road has just been resurfaced
from the Premier Inn to the Yacht Club only and at the cost of £40,000. Quite a large slice of Nigel C's budget I suspect.
The resurfacing will go no further up the promenade as the top section is in reasonably good condition.
Its a joy to see the demise of the proliferating potholes this end though. It really was bad. - great pictures there paul, yet another example of how lucky we are
to live in area that has so much to offer in the great outdoors.
cannot remember the name of the yellow flower, seen plenty of them this time of the year. - Howard, I am reliably informed that the plant is a Wallflower. There is little more I can say about it other than they are native to these shores.
- More bad news for Marek unfortunately, illustrating once again that unless a service can make money then it is doomed to close. This particularly applies to fast craft with their astronomic fuel bills:
"The Compagnie
Corsaire will not be operating to Jersey this season. The JACQUES CARTIER started running from St-Malo to Jersey in 2007. She carried 34,600 passengers last summer, but the service was not profitable. The price of fuel and port taxes
of 10 euros per passenger are blamed, along with reduced duty-free receipts following the opening of a shop in the Jersey terminal. The JACQUES CARTIER is to be sold. Condor will be left as sole operator on the route."
article
at: www.ouest-france.fr/actu/actuLocale_-La-Compagnie-corsaire-arrete-sa-ligne-vers-Jersey-_40892-1761243------35288-aud_actu.Htm
Compagnie Corsaire will continue to offer a range of excursions from St-Malo, including trips to
Iles Chausey.
website: www.compagniecorsaire.com - Looks as if your last picture shows potential for a chalk cliff fall Paully.
- Please can your readers advise me If one of your posters
Kathy? has any links with the Dover express?
I don't contribute on a regular basis, but I do read postings
every other day.
Recently I highlighted a distribution problem in my vilage, wondered if Kathy is something to do with the Express if she is aware of problems getting the express to shops like the post office till late afternoon?
Many of us more senior rely on the express for our news.
- Yes both my wife and me were over there today feeding the horse,s great I love it over
there. - John yes Kathy ( Bailes) is indeed from the Dover Express...although she is one of the editors there and may not know about distribution problems, but if she sees
this will let you know Im sure.
Thanks guys re the comments on the pictures. Yes indeed a section there in pic 4 looks like it might be coming down soon. - Yes certainly was a day to be out enjoying the sunshine, and taking in the delights of our surrounding countryside as shown by the pictures above. needless to say did not venture too near the edge meself either.
- hi John
I will let the right person know about the distribution - If anyone related to tourism or
interested in it, there is a Dover Transport Museum Networking meeting on Wednesday evening, starting at 19.30:
INVITATION TO A NETWORKING EVENING
Wednesday evening
7.30pm - 8.45pm
20th April 2011.
£ 5.00 includes
refreshments
Dover Transport Museum
Willingdon Road, Whitfield, Dover,
Kent. CT16 2HQ
Working together to make tourism work
R.S.V.P.
Email: mmcfarnell @hotmail.com
If you are interested, please come
along.
Roger - The guys at the RNLI are already having a busy time of it and the season has only just begun. Saw them in action on our lovely warm sunday
just gone, they were in action off the cliffs near St Margaret's and at one point were joined by Air/Sea Rescue..havent had any official info through on that as yet. Just snatched the picture of the helicopter as it shot past but its
not terribly good. The press release below is from a previous incident and has been delayed slightly but it shows the danger of not watching the tide...
Press Release:
Dover Lifeboat crew rescue
five people cut off by the tide.
Dover’s volunteer RNLI crew were called out on Monday afternoon (11th) when five people became cut off by the tide. The two adults and three children
got in difficulties to the west of Samphire Hoe.
Dover Lifeboat launched under the command of Deputy Coxswain Jon Miell. Once past Samphire Hoe the stranded quintet was soon spotted. The all-weather-lifeboat’s smaller inflatable Y
boat was launched to recover them.
Weather conditions had deteriorated during the afternoon and the combination of wind and tides made approaching the shore a tricky manoeuvre. Eventually the five, who were all cold and wet but
otherwise unharmed, were taken aboard the lifeboat which then headed back to Dover.
Once safely in the Marina the casualties were handed over to the care of volunteer Coastguard Rescue Officers from Folkestone who
helped reunite them with their car.
Dover Lifeboat Assistant Press Officer Martin Collins said: “Exploring our coast is a brilliant way to spend your free time; however tides, changeable weather and other
local conditions can make the shore a hazardous place. Beach safety advice is available from the RNLI’s website and for young people wishing to learn about having fun whilst staying safe, the RNLI’s Shorething website
www.rnli.org.uk/shorething is a great website full of fun games and exciting activities.”
- Okay this is positively the last shot of the Seafront Roadworks...there is only so much tarmac the public can
take in at any one time !!
But I had to register this thumbszzzuppp.
The guys doing the business have laid out the new parking layout, and by jolly jove they have only gone and got it DEAD RIGHT this time. Eureeka...overjoy
is breaking out!
Cue the Hallelujah Chorus!
As you can see...now anyone coming onto the seafront can just slip into a parking spot. All is easy peasy lemon squeesy therefore. Before, you might remember dear reader, the parking
slots faced the other way and it led to allsorts of chaos on busy summer days. But now at last
...the powers that be have got it right.
So a well done to all.
As Mr Grace used to say...."you've all done really well!
" - now as seen from gound level loking good as is the stembrook car park.little things that just look that bit smarter are important...
- It looks much better along the seafront now, Paul. I don't know who pushed it through but whoever it was deserves a vote of thanks,
those parking slots the wrong way round were a nightmare.
Studio Opening of Dover Community Radio.
Monday 23rd May 2011 @ 8pm Location: Phoenix Social and Railway
Club, Crabble Road, Dover, Kent CT17 0QD
The Dover Community Radio (DCR) team would like to invite you to our public meeting and studio opening event.
We are arranging this for Monday 23rd May 2011 at 8pm. The event
will take place at the Phoenix Social and Railway Club, Crabble Road in Dover where our studios are.
There will be the opportunity to talk to our members about DCR, join the membership scheme, find out more information and view
the studio.
We are also hoping to have some special guests to help open the studio. So please do come along and find out how you can get involved.
* Please note however we will not be launching the on-line broadcasting
service on this date with live programming, if this changes we shall let you all know, but currently that is due to happen a few weeks after the studio launch*
.............More to be confirmed soon, we will keep you informed!
Stay in touch with us via Facebook (search Dover Community Radio), Twitter (www.twitter.com/dovercr) or email us on info@dovercommunityradio.co.uk
Website
www.dovercommunityradio.co.uk
- Just a quick update re the DOVER LIFEBOAT call out item just below. I mentioned while talking about the people cut off by the tide at
Samphire Hoe about another callout for the Lifeboat on the Sunday just gone.
Just had the following info through from RNLI's Martin Collins on that one...
"The call out on Sunday was to a dog that had
fallen over the cliffs at South Foreland. Sadly it was found to have died when the crew located it. The RAF were not involved in the incident and only in the area by coincidence."
- We are thrilled to see the AIDA Cruise Line visiting us so often this year here in Dover, a great boost for Dover..meet the
captain...
Clare Newman, Commercial and Marketing Services Manager at Dover Cruise Port welcomes the Master of the AIDA Sol, Captain Detlef Harms on the ship’s inaugural call to the
Port of Dover.
The ceremony which took place on Wednesday 13th April provided a brief respite from a busy schedule for the vessel which had just arrived from Oslo, Norway - the next stop was Le Havre before ending its journey at
Hamburg.
The AIDA Sol, which is owned by the popular operator AIDA Cruises, will be visiting Dover twice more this year. This was her maiden voyage following a naming ceremony in Kiel, Germany at the beginning of
April.
Sister ships AIDA Cara and AIDA Blu will be making several visits to Dover this season, welcoming some of the 240,000 passengers expected to travel through the Cruise Port this year.
In 2012 the brand new AIDA Mar
will also feature Dover on her maiden voyage after a naming ceremony in May of that year. In addition there are calls planned with the AIDA Luna and AIDA Cara in 2012, further confirming AIDA Cruises commitment to the Port of Dover.
Left is a picture of the Ship herself..The AIDA Sol, on its maiden voyage and pictured just after entering Dover Harbour for the first time.
Many thanks to DHB for the info
above.
- FAO Chris Simmons - Re Dover Neighbourhood Plan.
Regarding your interest in the DTIZ I suggest you have a word with David
Hannent, who did a lot of work personally on this.
His contact details are at PMC and that can be found in the Advertise page on the forum.
I believe he had the original concept of reinstating some of the old streets in the
area and working the development around them, with the option of a possible phased development.
This is the idea that the developer has alledgedly sold (back?) to the DDC and they, according to the Dover Express publicity, appear
to want to adopt it. - GrahamM
I know that David H did quite often put forward the idea of the "Brighton Lanes" effect for DTIZ, but I hadn't connected the pre-war
roads, alleyways, lanes and streets that were around the DTIZ area, with that suggestion, just that he knew that Brighton has a successful number of "Lanes" that were popular with antique dealers, bric-a-brac, collectors (and buyers)
of all-sorts and thought we should introduce that into the DTIZ plan.
I know the architect for the developers has a very different view of what the DTIZ area should look like, so that must be a step in the right direction for most
local people, as they didn't seem to like the original view.
I'm not sure there will be lots of little shops in these "pre-war" roads as much of it I'm sure will need to be taken up by car-parking - otherwise where are we
going to put the cars ?
Cars are a fact of life, we have to cater for them.
Roger - Citizens left
enjoying the Big Screen in Market Sq...
This Easter weekend we've got TOY STORY to enjoy...see the following press release from DDC.
TOY STORY TRILOGY ON DOVER BIG SCREEN
A range of entertainment for the
whole family has been rounded up for the Dover Big Screen this Easter Bank Holiday – with special free showings of Toy Story 1, 2 and 3 from 11am on Friday 22, Saturday 23 and Monday 25 April, (respectively).
As well as showing
Toy Story 1 (PG) on Friday, 2 (U) on Saturday and 3 (U) on Monday on the Big Screen, there will be entertainment around the screen, including the chance on Saturday to print your favourite Toy Story character on a T-shirt to take away.
The screen in Dover Market Square will also be showing images and words from the ‘I Love Dover’ text event after Toy Story 2 on Saturday 23 April, and residents and visitors will be able to play screen bingo and win special
prizes.
>Dear Mr. Cameron,
>Instead of giving billions of pounds to banks that will squander the
money on lavish parties and unearned
bonuses, use the following plan.
>You can call it the Patriotic Retirement Plan:
>There are about 10 million people over 50 in the work force.
>Pay them £1 million each severance for early retirement with the
following stipulations:
>1) They MUST retire.
>Ten million job openings - unemployment fixed
>2) They MUST buy a new British car.
>Ten million cars ordered - Car Industry fixed
>3) They MUST either buy a
house or pay off their mortgage -
>Housing Crisis fixed
>4) They MUST send their kids to school/college/university -
>Crime rate fixed
>5) They MUST buy £100 WORTH of alcohol/tobacco a week .....
>And
there's your money back in duty/tax etc
>It can't get any easier than that!
>P.S. If more money is needed, have all members of parliament pay back
their falsely claimed expenses and second home allowances
>If
you think this would work, please forward to everyone you know.
> Also………..
>Let's put the pensioners in jail and the criminals in a nursing
home.
>This way the pensioners would have access to showers, hobbies
and
walks.
>They'd receive unlimited free prescriptions, dental and medical
treatment, wheel chairs etc and they'd receive money instead of paying
it out.
>They would have constant video monitoring, so they could be
helped
instantly, if they fell, or needed assistance.
>Bedding would be washed twice a week, and all clothing would be ironed
and returned to them.
>A guard would check on them every 20 minutes and bring their meals and
snacks to their cell.
>They would have family visits in a suite built for that purpose.
>They would have access to a library, weight room, spiritual
counselling, pool and education.
>Simple clothing, shoes, slippers,
PJ's and legal aid would be free, on
request.
>Private, secure rooms for all, with an exercise outdoor yard, with
gardens.
>Each senior could have a PC a TV radio and daily phone calls.
>There would be a board of
directors to hear complaints, and the guards
would have a code of conduct that would be strictly adhered to.
>The criminals would get cold food, be left all alone and unsupervised.
Lights off at 8pm, and showers once a week.
Live in a tiny room and
pay £600.00 per week and have no hope of ever getting out.
>Think about this (more points of contention):
>COWS
>Is it just me, or does anyone else find it amazing that during the mad
cow epidemic our government could track a single cow, born in Appleby
almost three years ago, right to the stall where she slept in the
county of Cumbria?
>And, they even tracked her calves to their stalls. But they
are unable
to locate 125,000 illegal immigrants wandering around our country.
Maybe we should give each of them a cow.
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Also;
>Think about this ... If you don't want to forward this for fear of
offending someone -- YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM! It is time for us
grumpy old folk of Britain to speak up!- Immigration-----NHS.
Being in need of the NHS when we need help,be it serious or minor we spend many hours with Nurses.
Recently I have had
to spend a lot of time with Nurses.Nurses from many different counries.
Two Nurses from China have excelled and impressed me.
Both had their training in China to a very high standard.One obtained a degree.One moved
to Singapore for specialised training.Both then coming to England.One is a Sister ( Should be a Matron ) one is a Sister in waiting.
They are at the top of their profession.
It did not cost Great Britain one penny
to have these very highly expensively trained Nurses to be with us.
Anyone wish to discuss the value of immigrants to Great Britain?
An exrta bonus they bring us their superb cuisine.
- Good post there Nom De Plume but I would suggest it probably would be much better if you put your name to it, for max effect. I know who you are
(codes) but your secret is safe with me! lol
But yes its often overlooked..the many benefits to immigration. Both in the health service and beyond. The hotel, the catering empires would stutter to a halt. Farms would get no
produce picked and plucked. Half of London services would seize up..etc etc.
I think when there is an economic downturn the immediate population can panic about immigrants taking their jobs and so on....but the fact is many
have been here all along looking after us in hospitals, on the railways, in restaurants and so on.
We dont want to be flooded out so a sensible policy is required....especially with immigration from far flung
places. 
Just spent a lovely morning up at the Heights and met these wonderful people from the
WHPS who were working hard in the hot midday sun to keep our history looking so good. They were having a well deserved tea break when I took this photo!
I had a long chat with Mandy and also our own Phil Eyden and they are both great
people who it was nice to put faces to names for.
Thanks to all involved for all you do - we all owe you bigtime. Sorry I don't know all the names but I expect someone will add
them?- Thanks everso much for your lovely comments Jacqui, lovely to finally meet you too! I've just shown the chaps on the site your message and they really appreciate it.
Just a slight thingamy-whatsit, the group is the White Cliffs Countryside Partnership, not WHPS, but the two groups do work together and share some volunteers. Depends which hat we are wearing that day! Cheers! - Roger,
David Hannent has done work on his concept and it is the concept level that I was taking about.
I recall seeing small scale plans of potential layouts. They
appeared to follow an old street plan and were not quite as small as the lanes at Brighton. From my recollection parking was accommodated as was the old MFI site. As I recall the layout was mainly pedestrianised.
I’m glad you are
aware of architect/developers view, the rest of us are being kept in the dark.
David Hannent and I differed in our views on the DTIZ, but it was good to speak to someone with an open mind.
I have a view that there should
not be a development progressed until there is a realistic policy and strategy for retail in Dover by the DDC (agreed with the DTC). Only then can the whole of Dover progress and prosper, not just an isolated new development.
Building new whilst the rest withers on the vine is not good planning.
- OOps! Sorry Phil ! Actually I put the original photo on the front page by mistake, I've
zoomed in a bit on the one on the members page so you can see who you all are better. Like I told you - I'll never be as good a photographer as you lol. Thanks again anyway x - wendy
some interesting view points there.
hows reg's election campaign going?
- If 10 million people each have a million pounds, that's only
ten people isn't it ?
If 10 million people have £1.00 each then that's not going to make much difference to anything - or anyone. Or am I missing something ?
Roger
- I know its very early Roger and im not fully awake either but I think you are missing out two vital words there..."each" and "million"
10 MILLION people EACH have
a MILLION pounds...that equals a lotta dosh or to put it the other way
10,000,000 times 1,000,000 ..calculator required at this point ..as all those zeros...!!?
- reg
when you get elected to the ivory towers you will speak to me won't you lol - The Union Flag is flying on the Great Tower once again.
Yesterday there
she was in all her glory.
- Looks like the future of Buckland Paper Mill has been solved. Its been set on fire
- Correction to my earlier post regarding Buckland Mill It seems to be that the demolition crew have a rather large bonfire, large enough to attract the attention of the fire brigade
- Always be suspicious when things like that happen on a bank holiday!
- reminds me of that old one, morrie
say's to solly "sorry to hear about the fire", the reply comes back "shhhh not till next week".
Easter car boot fake sales targeted
by HMRC.
Visitors to Easter car boot sales in the South East are being urged by HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) to be on the lookout for traders selling counterfeit and smuggled cigarettes and alcohol at what may appear
to be ‘bargain prices’.
Expertly crafted packaging makes it almost impossible to spot whether ‘bargain priced’ tobacco and alcohol products are counterfeit. Like any other counterfeit product, there is no guarantee of the quality
or content. Of all the large cigarette seizures HMRC made last year around half were found to be counterfeit. They are not genuine cigarettes brought back from holiday but were probably made in back-street or underground factories across
the world and their manufacture and sale is unlicensed and unregulated.
Stuart Crookshank, Assistant Director for HMRC, said:
“Low cost tobacco and alcohol products can often seem very attractive to
people who believe they are buying genuine products at a knock down price. Those involved are not concerned if they are selling to children and underage young people. This illicit trade has a devastating impact on legitimate retailers
and the local community.”
He added: “We all pay extra to compensate for the money these criminals steal, and with the economic challenges being faced by businesses and the public our focus must remain
relentless to deter and disrupt the illegal trade. We would encourage anyone who knows of someone selling cheap or duty free cigarettes, tobacco or alcohol to contact the Customs Hotline on 0800 59 5000 or email
customs.hotline@hmrc.gsi.gov.uk
“The profits from tobacco and alcohol smuggling fund other criminal activities including drug and people trafficking, and cause real harm in the local community. With over
£2 billion in unpaid revenue stolen last year from public funds through tobacco smuggling and around £1 billion through alcohol smuggling, this crime impacts hard on the UK’s finances - money needed to invest in local services.”
- Great Easter Getaway... think they have all gone away !!
- Does P&O also offer
crossings from 2.5€ for French people to spend their money in Dover? - peter,i dobt it,but who knows.
- I had a
business meeting with P. & O. and other prominent businesses last week and will be following that up next week; I'll ask if they have any special offers for the French to encourage them to come over here.
The Pound against the
Euro is very low at the moment so will be good timing to encourage them to come over here.
Roger - I dont know myself either Peter if they do deals the other
side, but I have a feeling they probably dont for the simple reason that there doesnt seem to be any demand for it coming this way.
I did a lot of foot passngering and it seems to be an English pursuit. I never came across anybody
French doing it at all.
I remember a year or two back I went to Boulogne on the gorgeous seacat. We stayed for several days and on both journeys it was all Brits only. Quite clearly and easy to tell on those smaller craft. I
suspect thats what happened to the LD Lines initiative..the one way traffic wasnt enough to sustain it. We went to Boulogne but the Boulognese didnt come here.
In other words the shipping lines bring the british traveller out and
the british traveller back..with some additional bonus from continental car drivers on the way back. But no foot passengers. Thats a bit of a back of a fag packet analysis but its probably the case.
Roger I remember that picture
of you and Nick Stevens with your leaflet promoting Dover in Boulogne and beyond. We were all optimistic then about the LD LInes link.
Scotchie nice picture there, have also seen it larger in the forum. I wonder if the predicted
mass exodus actually happened to the same extent this year, or is it just natural that saturday would be empty, those that have gone are already gone as you say. But.. interesting
picture. - PaulB
Good point the days of the French 'daytripper' seem but a distant memory. Over here its seems the opposite as most islanders prefer the
cheap flight to the UK rather than having a trip to St Malo. The town was full and I mean football match levels yesterday with frogs and krauts on cycling holidays,school trips etc. Pity we can't attract any cruise liners though...lucky
old Dover. - p & o were doing day trips from calais for a euro a while back.
don't know what they charge now, but i hear a lot of french spoken in town. - Some more back of fag packet analysis. If it means much I dont know. Millers aka Premier Inn carpark last night full to the rafters. Not a single foreign car there. Visit
Kent tell us our tourism is up right across the county but my limited field of analysis isnt seeing it.
But with regard foot passengers. Duty Free in its day was a marketing mans dream. Customers fell into the lap of the Ferry
Companies by the droves...some went in cars and some went on foot. A terrific mass market idea was created. I think the legal loophole sustained Hovercraft as a business for years and years. It was huge and generated a habit of one way
continental traffic for us Brits. We bought into it, we got the bug. We found we had a habit we quite liked, even after Duty Free.
The continentals had no similar incentive to come here, and basically didnt. There was no automatic
marketing boost, no urge to do it, no necessity. Creating such a market now would be difficult. Its true there are some coming but not enough. - PAULB;
Premier
inn up norf
are in may to charge £8 a day to rsidents to use there car parks
so looks like the tides changing, - Keef
Do you mean hotel visitors have to pay £8 or do
you mean the towns residents using it as a free car park therefore blocking up visitor spaces have to cough up?
I would be interested to read the article if you have a link. - I was contacgted by the premier inn(up norf) to tell me from May 01st all customers will be charged £8 if they wish to use the car park.
i will ask if you real need the info when i go in june, let me
know
keith - MAREK
Further to my post, it is on there web site that they now charge for parking and the charge is £8 - Keef not sure if you know...but the Premier Inn carpark here in Dover is NOT free either. Its not a free carpark, although it started out in life that way.
But.. People started to use it as a better alternative to the
one just metres away on the seafront where joe bloggs was/is charged by the neck til he's dead. Result was everyone opted for the free one. Bad for the revenue intake so it was stopped.
I have a feeling pressure was brought to
bear and nowadays they charge a hefty amount for parking here at the Premier Inn.
Establishments that charge people who want to frequent them are to be wholly sniffed
at. - im sniffing paul b lol
- PaulB,
You must have moved here after the days of wallpaper
shops stocked to the rafters with Quality Street. There's a market for anything when the conditions are right! - Thought you might like a copy of this sunrise for your blog, I
took it the week before last, in Dover, looks more like the carribbean!
- I remember the wallpaper days Ray in the early 70's, mostly Belgians I think. The town was
packed with French and Belgians in those days. I worked on the hovercraft in those days so saw it first hand. I forget what the exchange rate was then. - To Mr Paul
Watkins leader of the Dover District Council.#
I am asking in the name of the good public of Dover to open up again the TOILETS again along the Dover sea front,this Easter Weekend has seen 100s of the public from Dover and vistors to
the Dover sea front and there has been many asking where are the toilets ,we have had to tell them there are none,even the Sea Centre today was turning the public away from using the ones in the Centre,we are to get vistors coming we
must have then open again and NOW you have them in DEAL and we want them in DOVER TO. - good question about the seafront conveniences vic, i
think that the seasports centre are right about keeping theirs for customers only, de braddelie wharf take the same view. - We must have them open again we have
100s of visitors now going into Dover and no Toillets it is mad to have them closed ,I want the Dover fourm and it members now to get on to the council anyway they can phone,letters,emails or even going to see them and push to get them
open,I will do my part by talking at the meetings I will be going to, over the next few weeks,trying to get the parish councils also to take it up with the D,D.C.
We can do it with we all try and keep on to the D.D.C. and the
D.H.B. even the Town council. - Try again picture taken 09.04.11 @ 06:19hrs
- Thinking outside the box
Or maybe inside the box.
Couldn’t we make better use of the unloved information hut? With it’s doors on each side and smoked
glass windows it would make a wonderful French pissoir!
Certainly finding a real use for it would be a relief for many people. They wouldn’t have to ask where the toilets were either. - Nice picture TimO. Was just about to ask you to send it in to me as I see it didnt load properly earlier.... and there we were, all worked fine on second go. It was awaiting
approval in the 'waiting room'. Well done with that. - GrahamM I do not find that funny in anyway it could be you in a few years time, just siting on a seat in
tears because there was no Toilet. - Vic
Please keep your ''Bog'' postings to one thread please. You are ''polluting'' all the other threads and in danger of
becoming a bore. - I am doing it so all the public know about it,not all read the members page.
- a
cracking shot tim, any more like that please send them in. - Plenty of french etc visitors in Deal over weekend, few reasons for that I expect but toilets open
could be one reason!!!!!!! - gary,is that a bog standerd reply.lol.
- All my life in Dover and that is the first time
I have seen Swans in the Harbour,thank you so much for showing us it on the front page. - certainly a new one on me, look rather serene there.
- As the pictures of the swans have gone from the editorial above I thought I would add them to this post so that the bottom shot stays relevant. Quite rare to see swans in
the Harbour...
Here is another shot but from a wider
range. I zoomed out in otherwords, did this in an effort to include the pier for proof of where the swans actually were. Always good if you can get a picture of anything unusual to show it in relation to where it is. Not always an easy
thing to do. Photographing balloons for example..rather than show just the ballooon, show the balloon in relation to where it is. ie going over the castle or what have you. Didnt manage to follow that ideal terribly successfully here but
got something in relation to where they were. If you zoom out further they become just specks etc.
I almost panicked when I saw them for fear they were going to fly off before I could get a shot. I grappled with the camera and
found I had several more thumbs than usual... - As you say PaulB majestically weaving their way through the harbour with a regal nod of the head, resting before
making their way to one of the royal parks to pay their respects at a certain royal wedding this friday. lol! - Paul,
Please reinstate the swans as the main picture
it is so serene and calming, so much better than the ugly mugs that greeted me this morning. - Pam Brivio is currently a Town Cllr for Maxton Elms Vale and Priory ward but she
is the Candidate allongside my self for Tower Hamlets.She is involved with the Seasports Centre and actually led the tour.
Gordon Marsden was a nice chap I could see Collette getting a bit warm around the gills, seriously down to
earth friendly chap who knew alot about regeneration on seafronts, and he had some humour too, when I said Ian Holloway the Manager of Blackpool FC should be made a saint.
- red
ed certainly meant it when he talked about dover district being a target seat, losing count of how many of the top brass have visited.
great pictures there. - I thought third from left had been replaced by a woman??
- It was a very interesting and positive afternoon yesterday with 'The Labour Election Power Team'.
Gordon Marsden, as a member of the seaside group of Labour MP's and our very own Gwyn have certainly done Dover proud. It is very frustrating indeed that the present cuts will inevitably affect the Seachange project, we were very lucky
to get our new seawave seafront and Seasports centre ahead of these cuts. Well Done to all who worked so hard to achieve this.
JHG, what's a gal to do but get a little crimson around the gills in such circumstances lol!
- Yes its true Gwyn is to be replaced with a woman in due course according to reports. I think Gwyn has stepped aside anyway although as with all
these things nothing is ever written in stone...and of course at the end of the day nothing wrong with having a woman.
But I think many local Labour people are concerned that they are having an all-woman short list foisted upon
them for the next election. In other words Labour will be represented by a woman even if say a JFK was to join Labour locally. So some people of all sexes according to feedback on this forum, are disappointed with that, but are all for a
woman coming through on merit.
The Shadow Minister mentioned in the editorial above, Gordon Marsden, said yesterday that he was very disappointed that Gwyn had lost his seat at the last election....adding
"What a fantastic
job he did in parliament for Dover" - colette
are you sure that the seaports centre was funded with seachange dosh?
i thought it was a multi agency
thing, the promenade and the new visitors centre was seachange if my memory is correct. - Howard I think you are part right there re the Seasports Centre as way
back I remember Bill Fawcus of DHB, thats a pic of Bill in the editorial above, raising funds for it all over even at Auctions in what was The Churchill at the time. But at the same time I think ...according to the info I have here ..it
was part of the Seachange Project. I think it was a multi faceted initiative but grateful it got there in the end.
If anyone has any further detail we are always glad to
hear.... - DDC put cash into the project as well
- As PaulB said below, Howard, I think it
was a multi faceted initiative so to speak but there's no doubt that Bill Fawcus was instrumental in raising funds for the Seasports Centre. I remember said auction Paulb, I bought a weekend for two on the NCL Norwegian Dream to
Amsterdam and it was a great weekend. - of course gwyn did a fair job for the seat he held
to right wing for me but neverr the less dedicated to the
job,
on the women only shortlist, yep everyone wants to see more women in politics, for to long we have had this male dominated councils, houses of p.
so yep lets have more women,
but not impose them
get them there on
ability.
i feel so strongly on this issue my vote will be wasted if labour doesnt come round
thats there choice, an of course i have mine.
i hope that labour will see sense before the next general
election - So Keith, three Labour women in Priory, Maxton & Elms Vale , I take it you won't be voting?
- different issue altogether paul, as far as i know there was not an all woman shortlist.
probably the case that the three were the only ones willing to stand. - You're probably right Howard, none of them live in the Maxton, Elmsvale and Priory Ward.
I was concerned to hear (not read) that the latest Labour leaflet is
talking about DDC not having balanced budgets and have spent the reserves.
This is so untrue, especially as I had put on here the response from the Finance Director at DDC to say that the budget for the last three years WAS
balanced and that there is £1 and a 1/2 million in reserves.
I understand that Labour are also lying about the Conservatives spending all the money they left in 2003 - for goodness sake, they left a £750,000 black hole.
How dishonest can you get ?
Roger - doesn't help election debate when accusations of lying come into play.
lecherous john claimed that the budget
wasn't balanced, paulw said it was, hardly helps people make up their mind on how to vote.
had a look at the two leaflets i have had from the reds, there is no mention of the local blues in either. - Roger anyone can have a balanced budget,you just need a loss entry and the numbers at the bottom balance! I don't know what you do at Council meetings but the Council is
and at least read page 44 of the budget for 2011/2 third column along 3/4 down the page,General fund deficit for the year projected out turn - £472,000.
The reserve was over £2 million pound 2 years ago now it is £1.5 million again a
deficit (loss) of more than half a million £ in 2 years.
I am not accusing anyone of lying but I know where the numbers are and I have them in front of me,having spent 2 years in the Governance committee something
stuck.
- I have also heard that the reason why the Tory leaflet is not out is because it attacks some Labour Councillors personally and they had to seek legal advice,now I will
be the first to attack the Tories policies but not individual Councillors that is below the belt,but we have seen it before. - I must disagree with Keith regarding the fact that
women must be elected on their merits rather than have an all women's selection. The whole point Keith is that although there are many intelligent women in the Labour Party they have,in the past, been ignored by a biased, male dominated
male section of the party,hence the need to have to resort to the proposed method of selection. I could give you numerous examples of this biased selection did I have the time and space. One of the reasons I left the Labour Party many
years ago was the fact that it was run by un-educated tunnel visioned males whilst there were many clever women in the wings who wanted to participate. - I have it quite specifically from the Director of Finance - not the Leader of DDC or any other elected Councillor, that DDC have had a balanced budget for the last 3 years.
If the Director of Finance says it is
balanced, I can't see how anyone can say otherwise.
£1.5 million in reserves is still a very acceptable level - £750,000 black hole is not.
John - as far as I know, none of our leaflets are being negatively personal or
attacking any Labour Councillors. I'll be honest, I haven't seen any other wards' leaflets.
We have issued two in the Maxton, Elmsvale and Priory Ward.
Do you put these stories out to try and gain politiocal advantage
?
Silly me for asking.
Roger - Roger we had £2 million in reserve 2 years ago,so where did that go into your black hole,it is a loss£ 1/2 a million in 2
years.
I clearly remember that we were told that £2 million is a good reserve,well it would be now because we havent got it. - I cycled past the public toilets on Dover
seafront today, the ones near the Marine Court, and nearest to Eastern Docks, and guess what? They were open! Think someone must have noted Vic's comments! - paulw;
you are fully aware that the priory mxton and elms vale SELECTED it's candidates and did not impose them.
but well worth a stir up from you paulw
and please don't misquote me on women standing in
elections
thankyou - It is not a loss John, it is a spend - to maintain services and still have a good reserve.
Why grumble about a £1.5 million in reserves when the
last time Labour were in, they left a £750,000 loss - quite a difference.
I don't think you ever had either kind of figure.
Roger - So a lose of 1/2
a £million is ok,by my workings out according to you (and I wasnt there) Labour lost £750,000 in 4 years,well you have almost equalled that in 2.
Ask the director of finance what the reserve was 2 years ago.The reason for and it
isn't a grumble it is a fact is we hear what you say Labour did,but you have spent the last 4 years in Council and haven't seen the money slipping away.Perhaps Paul W will come in and tell us what the reserve was 2 years
ago. - A bit of good news for those living in Deal and Sandwich.
The High Speed train is going to run for a trial period to these two stations in the Autumn. 
The announcement of the high speed trains for Deal from October is great news. This has been a key local priority for me and our team in
Deal.
I hope that Deal being on the high speed line will provide a boost to the local economy and bring cheer to frustrated travellers.- let's hope that the trial is successful, costing only £.150,000 to implement.
congrats to charlie and the people at k.c.c and d.d.c. that worked together to make it happen. - Well done Charlie KCC and DDC members who have worked to achieve the Hi Speed Link to DeaL and Sandwich .Worthy of top of the front page I think In fairness election rules
etc .
. - Travel Times Slashed as KCC Brings
High Speed Rail to Sandwich and Deal.
Rail
Travellers from Sandwich and Deal will have a new High Speed Rail Service from 3 October, 2011, thanks to the support of Kent County Council.
The new High Speed Rail Service aims to boost business confidence and bring new
employment opportunities to the area at the same time as Pfizer exits its Sandwich site with the loss of over 2,400 jobs.
At tonight's Kent Rail Summit at County Hall, Leader of Kent County Council and Chairman of the Sandwich
Economic Development Task Force Paul Carter announced KCC's support for the new peak service for rail travellers from Sandwich and Deal which will slash the journey time to London to approximately 90 minutes.
It will provide 3
High Speed trains to London in the morning leaving Sandwich at 0551, 0617 and 0647 and calling at Deal 5 minutes later. Trains will return from St Pancras at 1740 and 1840.
The new service will build on the High Speed connections
to be provided by Southeastern for the Open Golf Championship in Sandwich, in July, and was a specific recommendation of the recent report to Ministers by the Sandwich Economic Development Task Force.
The cost of this new
service is approximately £151,000, but costs will reduce the more that the services are used. KCC are also lobbying the Department for Transport for an exemption to the current franchise agreement which will make further savings on the
cost.
KCC Leader Paul Carter (picture above) and Chairman of the Sandwich Economic Development Task Force stated:
"Journey times to Sandwich and Deal will be slashed by the introduction of this new High
Speed service which will provide an immediate boost to business and job prospects in the area and has long been called for by local residents.
"We've worked closely with Southeastern, local MPs and Dover District Council to
secure the service at minimum cost. At a time of exceptional need for the area with the exit of Pfizer in 2012, we were determined to provide new high speed links which would support local businesses and attract new investment into the
area. It's great news and a real boost to Sandwich and Deal.”
Paul Carter continued:
"KCC has pump-primed the service and it is now up to local businesses and residents to "use or lose it".
“As service use grows the potential to extend it to provide a full timetable throughout the day will be a real possibility which will boost local business prospects still further." ...ends...
Above is a KCC Press
Release.
- "Worthy of top of the front page I think In fairness election rules etc"
I could not agree more but Labour rule the roost by the look of
it. - Ah now Jan and Sue..you only seem to be grasping half the info there. Charlie put that post up himself this morning in the same way as anyone else does, nothing to do
with yours truly at all, although to give it max boost I did add the picture. Good to hear from Charlie like that.. always welcome...no probs at all.
We always try to be fair to all and as Ive said if the Conservatives send me
info/press releases any time at all I will use them fairly. How many times have I said this already... - Paul
Sorry I should have been clearer. I was not
thinking of Charlie's post I was referring to the one that you posted by Paul Carter that is a KKC Press Release as you stated after your post. - Some press releases appear
down the page Jan and some up the page its just a matter often of fitting everything in..I still have a backlog of info that has already come through and is waiting for inclusion, everything has to be slotted in as best we can. The
editorial above is of course not a press release so gets pole position for a day or two. Its a tricky balancing scenario but all n all we do our best to give everyone their
exposure. - cannot remember the blues ever sending in a press release, charlie used to.
the yellows certainly have never sent us one, the reds started fairly
recently, vic is the best exponent in getting his parties views across.
of course we get the non political one's from d.d.c. k.c.s. h.m. customs(to use their old name), the life boat people, sea france, p & o and most recently the
harbour board.
probably forgotten a few, the main point is that all are welcome. - I see there's a nice new union flag on the pole in the garden of a house in
Buckland Avenue. Pity it's upside down!
Perhaps the owner is sending out a distress signal! - terry,is that the house near st.edmunds
school. - There was a young girl called Kate
who decided to take a mate
she married young Wills, it cured all her ills
and she lived happily from this
date.
..ermmm that last line above needs a little work
Brown and Blair, prime ministers rare
didnt get an invitation
they're struck off the list and really are hissed
but will make do with a Scottish
libation.
oooh such frivolity.... - now,now paulb calm down dear its only a wedding.lol
- PaulB, if I may...
There was a young girly named Kate
who conceded to take her a mate
she married young Wills and accepted the frills
and she lived ever-happily off of the state
soon ms Middleton shall learn
of her fate
on accepting her married estate
a princess in pearls, the envy of all other girls
what history has in store...well just wait - Well done there Tom - Great stuff! We've all gone poetic again.
Its a day for frivolity so it is..if anyone else wants to have a go at a poetic masterpiece then let's be
hearing from you. Shakespeare himself would doff his cap at our incredible literary skills here on Doverforum....lol!! - That's the one Brian.
- Love the pic of the lone fishing man.
True Love is a durable fire
In the mind ever burning;
Never sick, never old, never dead,
From itself never
turning. - the wedding has brought out the poetic side of the forum.
i bet that bloke fishing wont be on his own for long. - The Dover Soul.
You're never alone with a fishing-rod
no matter you're far down the quay
communing with nature can be a sod
I am just glad there's no-
one to see
it is a popular pastime, this angling
all sorts, young and old have a go
there are secrets too to line-dangling
yet passers-by all seem to know
I'm glad I started out early
left the royal wedding
behind
and she indoors with the telly
my cares like my cast to unwind
The world expects much from we anglers
hunters alone with our bait
pondering the woes of life's gamblers
single-handedly vying with
fate
I wonder if my supper will be readied
as I wend my weary way home to my hut
I've caught nothing that can be breaded
and the fresh-fish shop is sure to be shut
- Well! well! well! PaulB, you kept that quiet, never told us you were on the guest list Lol! Lovely, Lovely photos and I loved her dress, understated class, she looked
fantastic and so did her magnificent Prince. - Ah well I knew everyone would be jealous Colette so I kept it under my hat. I got Tony Blairs seat..when
they elbowed him out they slotted me in in his stead. There are some at Westminster who are 'well gutted' I can tell you. lol!
Cherie isnt talking to me no
more...sigh! - captured some great pictures there PaulB of that beautifull dress she looked absolutly lovely truly a very happy wedding, and it bought out the whole
nation.
They look to all the world a very happy couple.
Don't worry about Cherie Paul she'll come round LOL!!!! - Surprised how emotional I felt watching
the wedding. Gawd knows what I will be like when I give my daughter away next year!!! - seeing all those pics of the royal do from paul it seems he got a bit carried away with
it all.
my spy tells me that his balcony was bedecked in union flag bunting!! - Nothing wrong with that. Something about a Union Jack that promotes a feeling
of great national pride-must be the striking colours or something-it just registers 'patriotism' in your brain somehow. - Today's
proceedings-in spite of the hype were intrinsically British-emotionally so. Add to that the memorial flight-well what more could you want to establish our identity as a nation. - I must admit I didn't sit glued to the TV for hours on end, but it was a superb, very well-organised wedding and went off perfectly.
The Bride was stunning - so was her sister
and therr dresses; the thing that surprised me was the short time the AB of C was on duty and didn't he look a scruff-bag ? He needed a beard trim, a haircut and his eyebrows needed trimming. The other Bishop had a beard but his was
trimmed and his hair neat and tidy.
Hope they have a long and happy life together and no one cheats on the other and that they feel complimented by each other not in competition, like Charles felt with William's
mother.
Roger - Yes Roger I thought that about the Arch Bish of C. Ive fetched up this picture as you can see him on the
left...but not sure if you can see much detail. Im not always neat and tidy in the long hair department myself but I did notice him in that way yesterday. Perhaps he just goes the au naturelle route like muslim clerics and so on.
* *
Interestingly...you know the wise wags often say these big occasions are a good time to bury bad news. By releasing it in conjunction with a big occasion it simply gets lost. Its
also a good time to bury good news...as nobody at all has commented on the good news of getting the High Speed Rail Link to Deal. I guess it got buried.
Have added this crop shot of
the picture above to see if a clearer view is possible. Yes marginally better and you can see as Roger said there, among other things his lonnnng eyebrows are rising heavenwards in a great sweeping
swoop.. - have to say im not an over keen royalist but Dover missed out on a tourism initiative
shame let's be rid of this conservative administration on may
5th
and start to look forward to promote Dover - Keith, you are beginning to be as irritating with your petty political comments as another constant political poster.
LOL - it's a point of view
jan h you may or may not recall some years ago this forum looked to be run by a break off of the conservative party locally and peoplre on here
complained labour persons didnt contribute
so contribute i do.
it will be may 5th soon that cant be avoided, and i have given a balanced view in my opinion on which seats to watch and may change hands(for those interested0
and not just from a labour side, also predicted which party would win seats. or hold them from all political parties(even tory)
so balancing things up.
we could go back to the old days of just
barryw roger, sue,
nigel peter
just spouting off tory central office stuff or how wonderful they are.
but it's better to have to have a more balanced postings.
i only reply to conservatives when they attck labour
otherwise i try to put
varied posts on.
there ar those on here i realise only want to hear the consevative point ofview and thats fine
but it's not my opinion of what the forum should be about.
i'm happy for anyone to be critical of me,
but they should also be as criticalof consrervatives when they ramble on as roger and others have recently.
to just be critical of me shows a bias and thasts fine
at least i
know
k - Good on you Keith.
Tis the price of being part of the electorate...eternal vigilance.
The happy voters of Hitchin, Herts too shall be reconsidering
their options in light of light being shed at long last on their Tory administration's 'secret' behind-the-scenes deal to develop their town centre.
There's slick and there's super-slick and then there's Tory.
Keep up the
good work Keith. - paulb,did the gezzer fishing catch anything.apart from a cold that is.
- Keith , you fail to tell people that you were part of agroup that cut Tourism , economic development & events. All part of history & recorded in official documents.
So in the good financial times you overspent &
managed to foul up a local council as your government has done with the country.
Not a good starting point for you to make credilble comment. - I was going to say that PaulW.
Closing the White Cliffs Experience, the Old Town Gaol, the Grand-Shaft and cutting an enormous amount of money from Dover Museum budget; you can hardly talk about promoting tourism
Keith.
So, let's remember, just for the electorate:
Closing all those tourism sites,
Black-hole in the finances
No investment in any play-equipment so many had to be taken away - and that was organised by the Labour
Group, before you lost power.
And if you had of got back in, the Council rates would have gone sky high and the Labour Group have already said in the Council Chamber there'll be a budget in September to raise Council
Tax.
Hardly likely to tempt the electorate - not the independant-minded ones anyway.
Roger - I have answered this on the May 5th thread on the main
forum
don;t want to take up to much thread space - and the answer is..........................................both partys are to
blame. - How can you say that Brian ?
The Conservatives didn't close all those tourism sites.
We don't have a black-hole in the accounts - we have £1.5
million
We have continuously kept Council Tax low since 2003
We have invested in Strategic Play Areas.
Roger - roger,with both partys nit picking
can you blame me.
what dover really needs is both councils [ddc/dtc] is guts to go forth and invest into the town and district,and i'm not talking play areas but towns infastruter,ie,roads/pavements and getting shops filled along
with getting rid of eyesores and genraly inproving the town,to attact and to keep people coming back again and again.
as for the blame game both partys no one is intressted in who done what and when and how.
all the public of
dover wants is forward movement and open shops etc. - You had over £2million 2 years ago
- The play areas
that are left were finacianed by the Labour Goverment,you destroyed closed and run down the others - roger
the tourist sites closed by the reds have not been reopened by the
blues. - roger, i can.because of all the bickering and nit picking thats going on.it seems that you and labour people are going over the same ground as you did last
may.
whats needed is all party coperation at both ddc/dtc to get the town moving forward,istead of stagnating it.
- well said brian, especially the issue of
cooperation between the town and district council. - How many years have we waited for the DDC & DTC to sort out Mr Matcham's toilet problem (don't read anything
into that).
Something so simple should be easy, so I don't think the counillor’s will co-operate. Not all the time they can focus on the publicity & high profile stuff.
This may be an over generalisation as we do have some
very good councillors, unfortunately they are drowned out by the egotists and political hardcore. - brian(bored dovorian)
you are fully correct in your view
point
long may this election be over and get on with life - Those tourism sites couldn't be opened because, because they didn't exist anymore after they were closed down;
the Old Town Gaol equipment was broken up; the White Cliffs Experience was sold off to Plymouth CC for a song and turned into the Dover Discovery Centre; the Grand Shaft was going to be opened this summer but then some Napoleonic
soldiers were painted on the walls and so now kept shut.
I appreciate it sounds like bickering and I apologise for that, but I feel that I have to refute Labour's claims. I don't see how it is right just to let them get away
with their claims.
Roger - roger,its not about whats closed,its the constant repition of tit for tat bickering between both partys and trying to score points.in
a word,dirty tactics trying to discredit one another.it boring,tedious and downright scandlus.if you get my drift.
it really puts people of voting and you wonder why there is apathy at polling
times. - Brian, I appreciate it must look like tit-for-tat; I'm not trying to put people off and I have only argued when something wrong has been said - should I just allow
things that are not true, to be said without a reply ?
Roger - I would like to point out that in River we have youth problems, and have no Idea about
Buckland,
could I add I have had 2 conservative leaflet's and one Labour leaflet, - roger,as ive said it comes across as tit for tat,its very off putting to the
public.apathy springs to mind when grown men bikker over minor details.
as ive said on the main forum it would be nice to have a tory leaflet published on here for those who havent got
one. - I did not think you were a fan of mine Brian .A very good photo of me even if i say so myself .My phone hasnt stopped ringing with offers of dinners out and drinks at
Blakes
It must be the blue jacket and the leaflet in shades of blue .. - sue,if you want me to be a fan admit that river is a suburb and not a village as you keep
saying. - Down here on the seafront in leafy blustery Castle Ward, all is well. The birds fly high on the wing, the sea is calm- ish, and above
all...the sky is blue. And.. so are the election leaflets. Or most of them. Yours truly has had a fair few drop onto his doormat and so all is politically right with the world.
But hold on, there is one leaflet missing..yes thats
it...the red one. nary a red leaflet from the Labour Party has darkened my dour doormat. But this isnt new. One never gets a Labour Party leaflet. I am living in an enclave where one party rules the roost and always has, and ne'er the
wind of change will ever blow through my little corner of this green and pleasant land.
That in itself probably makes a case for AV.
But speaking of AV. I have had a call from on high. Not heaven no, but a telephone call from
London encouraging me to Vote No. Heavens! how do they do that. Do they ring everyone or have I been singled out for special treatment. Whatever anyway it looks like the NO Campaign have all the money behind them. But then as it is
basically a Conservative push this is probably not surprising. - Brian,
Never .River is not completely joined to Dover .Take a stroll up Crabble Lane or
Minnis Lane fields .The only road that links us directly to Dover is Crabble Road
We have our own Parish Council .We pay a precept to this not Dover .
Hope you come along to our village bazaar this Saturday .You see I do have
otherthings on my mind other than an election ..
- PaulB - the No vote is very far from a 'Conservative push'.
There are more Labour MPs signed up to it than the
Yes vote have, likewise more Labour councillors.
The No campaign is much more a cross party campaign than the Yes vote who have the LDs, a few Labour (though including their so called 'leader') and very, very few
Conservatives. - dear sue,
stop trying to pull the wool over my eyes,we all know that river is a suburb,you mention crabble avenue/road what about lower road
kearsney end which connects to kearsny which allso part of dovers suburbs.
so in concluesion this makes river a suburb of dover. - paulb,nice pic of the beach,have seen
those kind of waves plenty of times at the western beach below aycliffe and other beaches around kent and forign parts. - So Temple Ewell is not a village either as Lower Road
and London Road River join Temple Ewell .
A state of mind Brian .A village and not to be joined with Dover .Seperate Councillors etc .!987 saw River take independance from Dover
Our precept is a lot lower .
My goodness
just think if we were part of Dover I could be the Mayor - Barry Williams, why is Ed Miliband a "so called leader" of the Labour party? he was elected in a fair election in
a vote very similar to AV as was Cameron, is he a "so called leader"? - sue,temple ewell and kearsney with river are linked to dover.no matter how you try and get out of
it.
ps.river stoped being a village when they started building on green belt land on points of the compass,by this i mean around 1966 before the parish came to be and since they did get parish status it hasnt stoped expanding
in all directions. - It was blowing gale force eight in the Dover Strait all day yesterday, accounting for the wave formation on the beach in Paul's photo. Carrying full
loads of tourist traffic on the way back as they all return from their break so running an hour late by the end of the day. Incidentally, we passed astern of the Queen Mary 2 at 0300 this morning as she made her way up channel, ablaze
with lights. - Good grief..I didnt know that was a Force 8 yesterday Ed. I came back through it about an hour before I took the picture on show at the top
of the page. If I had of known before i travelled I would have had the mental jitters thats for sure.
I still havent recovered, sez he chewing his fingernails, from the psychological trauma inflicted on me when a youngster by that
ol boneshaker the Princess Maud on the Irish route in them old days. Ooh the horrors of it all. I still wake up screaming in the dead of night!lol Ah yes we have spoken about the Princess Maud before..I think one of the guys even put up
a picture of it. I nearly had to go for therapy after that !!
Yesterday we were on the Spirit of Britain and it was fairly stable.. sort of. It had a huge load onboard. The great hordes coming back from the Easter extended break
and tons of trucks and coaches. It packs a load alright. One could hardly get a seat onboard.
But it was fairly steady.
* *
Yes Martin its true...BarryW tends to be fairly dismissive of young Ed
Miliband but last week at Prime Ministers Questions he did very well...and got the PM on the back foot. WE can all remember the "calm down dear!" furore....which blustered forth from a ruffled Cameron, following an incisive attack by
Labour's "so called leader!" - ED is ruffling the tories and soon the cobbled together goverment will be no more.
the lib dems will turn in on themselves
after heavest defeat for some time both in elections and the loss of the av vote.
tories to want rid of llib dems and will sieze the opportunity
but a general election cant see any party winning outright majority at the
mo.
baffled by ed mills supporting av
in the tory sun yesterday they stated had av been in place at last general election 137 mp's who did not come first would have been
elected - surprised you haven't spotted the irony keith.
you say you are baffled by the decision of simply red ed to back the "yes" vote then quote the currant bun
who support the "no" vote. - maybe howard you should read my last two lines
- It appears that Chris
Huhne has had a bit of a go at Prime Minister Cameron today. Tempers are getting frayed and the Libdems are furious that the Conservatives.. according to Huhne...are blatantly lying in their anti-Yes literature. It appears to be the case
that there are two seperate No campaigns, this according to David Cameron on R4 earlier today..one of which is funded and run by the Conservatives.
So Keef may be right in that the coalition could well unravel, but pointedly and
oddly as a result of this refendum. Basically the public dont care a fig about AV, we have had other much more important issues decided without resorting to referendums.
So it was clearly part of the Coalition deal to have a
referendum, the Libdems insisted, but the oddest aspect is, it could well be the one item that brings the partnership down and banishes the Libdems into the political wilderness.It will be very difficult to patch up relationships
afterwards. - Difficult yes but impossible no, PaulB.
What has been said is more to do with LD internal politics than anything else.
You said it
yourself, if the LDs pull down the coalition early before the beneficial impact of economic recovery it will condemn them to political oblivion for decades ahead. They are not that stupid......mmmm - interesting that the programme mentioned dover and thanet as the target seats but unless i missed it there was no detailed coverage of thanet.
i would have thought
that thanet would have been more important as ukip are fielding candidates. - I think Thanet is going to be covered tonight.
Interesting comment about Chris
Huhne - "A source from the Yes campaign told the BBC: "Nothing Chris Huhne has done in the last few weeks was authorised by us or useful to us."" - could be as Barry says that this has more to do with promoting Chris Huhne than
promoting AV.
- Yes it looks like Chris Huhne is making a play for the leadership of the Libdems. He has been coming across lately as an angry gerbil though, so not
sure if thats the right sort of image for a leader or the right sort of publicity boost needed for the YES campaigners. But as Nick Clegg is discredited anything is possible at this stage.
Interesting new press release just this
minute come in from Labour....have added it to the editorial above. Since the Libdems joined with the Tories, Labour have secured thousands of new recruits and more than 100 locally helping out with the election. These may well be
disenfranchised Libdems. - Your heroic party leaders with John Warnett and Graham Cooke of the BBC at Sandwich this morning.
- i saw that bunch on most wanted last night.lol
or was it crime watch ? - PAULB;
I have to be honest
and say i didn't realise the lib dems would be silly enough to sell there souls for a second time, but faced with the prospect of there worst ever election defeat in the locals lib dem front runners are now shuffling around to see who
will replace clegg.
clegg is becoming as unpopular with his party as maggie was in her latter years.
The dark horse in all of this and remaining loyal at the moment is simon hughes a fairly popular MP but keep your peelers
on him when the leadership election begins, think hes the one to watch.
it will be interesting in whitfield to see how clive meridith fairs and if the national cobbled together govt affects his seat as his majority is small and
tories must be laughing that the other lib dem isn't local to whitfield
the last lib dem with c meridith wasnt seen around the ward and that wont helpthe lib dems - While out today with nearly 30 Labour supporters and John
Healy MP in Elvington we stopped for a photo-shoot and a man came out of the house near where we were having our photo taken and asked to join the Party - Can't blame you John, I
wouldn't venture into Elvington without a few bodyguards either!!! - Elvington ain't rough, I went delivering around Ewell Minnis but fortunately had Sue N as a bodyguard!
Their beware of the dog signs are unique but I daren't stop to photo one.
(In case anyone from there is reading, only joking, you're all lovely people) - Actually the
garlic chilli murgh from the Elvington Masala takeaway is pretty damn good. Well worth running the gauntlet for. - I wonder if the esteemed Mr Watkins' sub-conscious has
given us a clue to his spending plans, his shirt being covered in small cheques? 
Daffodils end.Summer
begins.Shepherdswell pond .- Today is a big day for politics. I know we will all be trundling over to mark our papers saying yay or nay to the councillor of our
choice, these very same councillors or prospective councillors will all be spending today chewing their fingernails hoping for a good result.
Meanwhile in Westminster one Nicholas Clegg will be hoping you vote for AV or his
particular career could well be in tatters, if it isnt already! Clegg's Midas touch glowed briefly for a while but has long since departed. It fell on the sword of tuition fees.
At the same time David Cameron will be smugly
checking the very positive pollster organisations who have told him the NO Vote should be a clear winner. Conservatives are conservative by nature so dont want a change to the status quo.
Meanwhile Labour's Ed Miliband who would
not share a platform with Clegg ( a poison chalice at the polls these days) even though they both seek a YES Vote, is probably going to lose that one, but could gain big at council level. So something there for everyone...ermmm everyone
except poor oul Cleggy. - just had a leaflet from the reds.
if you have a postal vote and have forgotten to send it in, you can take it to the polling
station before 10 p.m. - Be it Red or be it Blue
voting is. "Good for you."
be it yellow yet again
we that don't still feel your pain.
As far as
Yes and No goes
all soon forget the no-shows
say NO! to AV deal
say Yes! to change, when real.
One last word on districts, Dover
one last point to ponder over
nominative determinism's a factor
you know that Vic
is short for Victor :)
- RAY LYDDEN;
You delivering for the tories did i note?
but unlike the toris i wont class you right wing just because
you did a few leaflets;
reg';
lovely photo of daffodils
labour to win by one seat
watch this space,,,,,,,, - you're on form today
tom, must be the hackney sunshine. - Nice one Tom. While you are on the subject of nominative determinism, bear in mind that, in a word association exercise, most
women will respond 'pains' to the word 'labour'. - ...and 'cuts', to the word Tory, Peter.
Having said that and with more than a mere sense of fair-play let's hope,
I certainly do, that Bob does not receive a reception from the voter as his name may suggest.
As ever let me sign off with my naive wish for a whopping turn-out figure.
[when I voted I was outnumbered five to one by polling
staff] - TOM;
our bob is another that has jumped ship so many times no idea what he stands for
lib dem, then labour, now tory
who next
seems to be a compitition on here who can stand for the most parties, vic is out in front at the moment
but s dimmock
k tranter
b frost
s nicholas
nots so far
behind - Keith, who knows but that for some the wish to serve the people is greater than Party Politics?
Talking of true commitment to the common cause. Speak up Vic!
[BTW. When are the local Dover results due?] - tom
they are starting the count at 9 a.m tomorrow, i would have thought
that by noon the results will be ready. - The referendum count starts at 4pm
- barry,is that 4pm
today or 4pm tomorrow.can you clarify please. - The votes will be verified in Whitfield after the polling stations close at 10:00pm tonight. Making sure that there are the
same number of votes as papers handed out.
The actual counting of who voted for who (or for what) begins in the Town Hall at 9:00am tomorrow (Friday) morning and the hope is that the district and parish results will be known by
4:00pm when they would have to stop as that is when the referendum will be counted. - They can hardly count at 4pm today before the polling stations close
Brian. - The miner says it all
- Keith, I'm a bit late replying as I've been out canvassing all
day!
I had a conversation with a friend outside a polling station today who said how could I be a blue when I'm a folkie musician. But I think that class distinction between red and blue, left and right, upper and lower classes
belongs to the last century. These days people vote and give their support to individuals, policies and competencies in a less tribal way.
And I think some of you predicitions will be way off tomorrow, let's wait and
see! - Just like the yellow daffodils referred to in Reg's picture below, they have all gone now, all gone.... politically the yellows have gone too, or near as dammit, wilted
away in the cold light of voting day. The Libdems were crushed the length and breadth of the country leaving their Leader Nick Clegg in a very uncomfortable position indeed. Cleggmania has turned to Cleggpneumonia as one guy said on the
radio.
Labour have done well regaining many councils across the UK...while the Conservatives are counting their blessings escaping without too much of a general drubbing, rejoicing in the fact that everyone blames the Libdems for
absolutely everything.
Despite the Labour recovery..Can they regain the council here at Dover and District. They begin counting the votes at 9am today. Watch this
space... - the result from neighbouring thanet will be a boost for the reds
blues 27 reds 26 others 3, a gain for 6 for the reds and a loss of 6 for the
blues. - The Miner says it all....
- Keith is absolutely
correct that I have supported all three off the main parties at various times.
The reason is that I do not vote for 'tribal' reasons.
In every election I have weighed up the policies and the individual candidate.
Thatcher was the only person to vote after the previous Labour mess, Labour at the end of the period of sleaze and stagnation that the Tories got in to and Liberal during the interregnum. - Tribal, is this the latest Tory “must use” word?
It keeps popping up and in a context that concludes as tribal being a bad word.
Miners are often referred to as
Tribal, even today but I don’t take it as in insult.
The term Tribal is used to refer to societies organized largely on the basis of kinship, especially relating to corporate descent groups. Many believed that Tribes organize
links between families and provide them with a social and ideological basis for solidarity.
Yes, its old fashioned but it’s also historic and some principals are worth clinging onto.
I’m happy to be labeled Tribal, I like the
word Tribal.
David.
Love the Miner Picture.
- Tories Hold on to Power in Dover and Deal
Even an onslaught of shadow cabinet members into the area, particularly into Deal, didnt make too much difference as Labour failed to take control of Dover District Council despite predictions that they would. The Conservatives
have held on, so the man you see at lefthandside of the page, Paul Watkins, is still in control.
It is now just a two party council. The Libdems lost their two local seats, succumbing to the national anti Libdem trend.
Final score
Conservative 26
Labour 19
Libdems 0
The Labour team though have four more seats ( +4) than they did previously, so some gains were
made.
The Conservatives have two less ( -2).
SEE ALSO the ELECTION RESULTS thread in the Forum section - May I add that the rosette on the miner was
not superimposed, I happened to see it as I motored past the statue yesterday and thought that I must photo it for posterities sake. Well done the wag who put it there as it brings light relief to the elections.
As for my wife winning
a district council seat,well, looks like I'll be even more a political widower, at least it will give me more time to cycle and sail,every cloud has a silver lining. - Found it rather amusing to hear Vince Cable describe the Conservatives as " thoroughly tribal" so Gary perhaps they will have to think up a new word to try and insult us commoners with
:) - Now publish the picture of Nigel and Keef with their arms round each other. Go on, I dare you!
- is that the
one where nigel shakes keith warmly by the throat? - had a chat with nigel and other leading conservcatives throughout the
night - peter
you will find(not for the first time)your posting to be inaccurate
will leave you to work it out - I trust you have been converted to the cause, Keith.
But seriously, it was a pleasant change to see both sides celebrating together with no ill-feeling. That's what I call grown-up politics. - Why does Dover not have dog wardens anymore?
- There is one dog warden for the district, he works 9 to 5 on the third
Wednesday of every month which has two full moons. - is it worth keeping the one?
there is no evidence of effectiveness. - By public demand here we go.There isnt actually a picture of Keef hugging Nigel but here is the next best thing.. a picture of him hugging
Big Rog. Yes indeed its lefty Keith Sansum hugging top tory Roger Walkden. Its a kind of entente cordiale gone mad!
It shouldnt be allowed !!
Nigel Collor did get his fair share of hugs though..here he is with Colette Boland and both seem to be enjoying the moment. Yours truly was also hugged by Keefy S but we cant show it on the grounds that it might
incriminate the whole movement!!lol
No ..Im just kidding. A pleasant time was had by all.
All pictured are tip top doverforumites.
- interesting pictures, nigel looks like his birthday has come early.
not sure about the first one, is keith trying to distract roger so he can lift his wallet? - To Alf and all other Doverites who are fed up with dogs fouling our town pavements.
There was a big pile of dog s**t just in front of Phillips and Drew's shop door
this morning the owner must have allowed the dog to go there as it was under the canopy.
This is the not the first time there has been a large pile of s**t in front of shop doorways in this area of the High Street, I know Corals
and Age Concern shop have been "targeted".
Dog fouling is against the law as is cycling on footpaths but nothing at all is done by the so called law upholders. - It
was a great celebration of victory last night at Blakes, a lot of happy people mingling together. Peter and Katherine were very welcoming, we were certainly a noisy bunch.
Lol! Howard, nigel looks like All his birthdays have come
at once! - Sorry Keith, yes my post was inaccurate, it was Roger you were embracing, not Nigel!
Jan, I was trying to bring this very point up when I
was summoned to Sandwich on Wednesday by the BBC for the breakfast show election special. I was halfway through my diatribe on low level antisocial behaviour when I was cut off for lack of time.
This failure of the authorities to
take such offending seriously gets me very hot under the collar and I think we should organise a protest march to focus their minds on it. - PETER;
It was nice to vist
cons!!ervative party hq lol
and be the last one out!!!!
howard;
peter did keep telling me he's not a member of the tory party
don't know why lol
howard;
the picture with roger, i fleeced all over
his jacket not a wallet to be found anywhere
lol - Same here Peter, it is so annoying.
By ignoring the seemingly small crimes the morons go on to bigger things
knowing they can easily get away with breaking the law, from small acorns etc.
Lunchtime today man on bike with dog on lead, cycling along the pavement outside the Charlton Centre going into town. There are the CCTV cameras
working in that area but does anyone watch them I wonder.
I am all for zero tolerance with regard to law breaking, it is a shame the police are not.
- Martin.
I
missed the quote but not the irony :) lol
I can confirm the rossette on the Miner was the real McCoy, must have been a sharp safety pin. ouch!!!!! - It looks as though as
everyone had a great time, sorry I couldn't be there on the night, Colette told me that fun was had by all. - I would like to arrange a protest march against the
suthorities' lack of interest in low level antisocial behaviour. I propose we start at Buckland Bridge, march against the traffic, collecting up every piece of litter and dog poop, taking photographs of every pavement cyclist, put the
whole lot into a bag and presenting it to the council office in Castle St. Anyone interested? - Peter you make it sound llike we hate each other,how wrong you are I have
as many friends on the Tory side as I do on Labour,first person I spoke to at the count was Paul Watkins,and I told Roger I was sorry I was os hard on him,but he was hard on us as well.
But when it comes to Politics...........we
disagree......nothing wrong with that! - We set aside politics lastnight and enjoyed a celebratery drink and a good night was had by all, but i'm sure it will be back to business
as usual in the coming days.
- i would go along with the protest, surely enough is enough.
some towns deal with it others(like ours) don't.
i wonder
how many of our elected representatives or top brass police ever venture into town? - howard,they probably use the bypasses to get round
it. - I would join you because as you may be aware I have told Council that we needed more Dog bins in Tower Hamlets and as I said we need more Dog Wardens on the Street,early
in the morning 5am to 8am especially and at night when it gets dark.
Sadly we have just reduced the Dog Warden service again,when it should be increased,and I would bring my dog,because I am not anti dog just anti dog's
mess - Count me in but I can not manage to walk the whole distance,
I think bringing dogs along is a good idea, besides they will like the walk. LOL
To be honest the
dog warden seems to have been a waste of money for the last couple of years. - Can I suggest we walk down Barton Path as well one of the worst areas for Dog's
mess! - Certainly a very pleasant, enjoyable evening at Blakes, good to see Colette, Jan, Paul and Keith in there and some happy banter too.
Regarding the dog-poo, I still
believe the best way forward is for the Enforcement Officers employed by DDC be given the authority/power to fine people who let their dogs poo on the pavement and the owners don't then pick it up. There are other ASB activities that
people could/should be be fined for too: cycling on the pavement, in a pedestrian precinct like Cannon Street and Biggin Street and the wrong way up a one way road.
I also think the PCSOs should be able to fine people for the
above offences too.
Roger - I agree Roger. What are we going to do about it?
John, where did you get that idea from? We welcome everyone of every political
persuasion. I was even on the verge (I think) of convincing Gordon Cowan to drop in for a coca-cola. You may all be lovey dicey behind the scenes but it is the public yah boo behaviour which turns people off. - Sorry my spellchecker has made a fool of me and I can't edit the last post. Makes it look like one of Keith's (lol).
- Sorry
Peter I never said anything about Blakes not being anything else than not welcoming every political persuasion,I have been in a few times,and you didnt even know it. - I have
already written to the Manager of the CSU and Parking Services about expanding the responsibilities of the DDC Enforcement Officers and hope that the Cabinet member responsible for this will do likewise and get this moving
forward.
Likewise again for PCSOs, but with the Chief Constable.
I have also contacted Waste Services about the street-cleaners picking up dog-poo while going around - this is now practice I am told, but I don't think all
street-cleaners do it, so we, as a Council must be more vigilent on it.
Roger - Politicians - dicey? Never!
- last few posts and there non political thoughts amuse me
clearly i hae nothing to hide im a lefty and proud of it.
othrs on here try to pretend they don't support or
belong to one party or another maybe because they are ashamed to do so?
If paulb recalls our conversation on lefties and our disagreement on what a lefty is we will have to continue that chat another time.
but
anyone that thinks all labour party members are lefties are in cloud cuckoo land.
- roger
i can safely say that you will be waffled on this one.
i am not sure
that the p.c.s.o's themselves are sure of their powers. - Keith you are a naughty boy. I have constantly said that I support the Tories (for now) because their
policies fit more closely with my views than any other party's. I have also said many times that I have never been a member of any political party and never will be.
Don't you believe
me? - peter;
in time i might, will see in time on whether or not you stick with them, me naughty???? - Roger
The enforcement team can't do the job they are supposed to be doing now, let alone putting more work on them, I'm still waiting to see when the enforcement on a certain property is being dealt with, we keep getting
fobbed off, saying they are going to issue the enforcement order, how long does this take, its well over a year since we were told this was to be enforced
Sheila - Let's hope BarryW can raise all the cash needed( see editorial at top of the page) because this Hellfire Corner event he holds in Pencester with his team is really one of the very best things we have here in Dover. We have
all had some very enjoyable days there so long may it continue....
I must see if I can find those pictures of the fan dancer who did a routine there a couple of years back...will come back to it..yes here we are..
Of course I also have pictures of old military equipment....!!
- David Brivio, could i have your permision to pass on(use) the
photo of the miner, please? - Dashing pic of BarryW there, yes, lets hope he gets those much needed funds for such a great cause. I'm looking forward to the event as
always.
Love the fan dancer below, in the pink, apparently the colour pink makes us all feel happy, well thats according to the experts although I do like a bit of pink myself from time to time, mostly
champagne! - Seeing the picture of BarryW at the top of the page signals that time of the year,that one of Dovers most popular events has come round
again good luck barry will be there i'm sure. - Who ever JHG is I would be prepared to walk along Barton path I agree it is discusting down there it used to be a
nice walk when I was a kid so any time JHG and I'll be there it's a pity more people are'nt interested in keeping these walks nice some dog owners I have to say are really great about picking up after thier dogs, so come on dogs
owners pick up the poop. - Hi L Woodland I am John Goodwin District and Town Cllr for Tower Hamlets,and a dog owner.But I am concerned the Council has cut back on the Dog
Warden service and I am keen to help some of the Dog Owners lazyiness.
I fought to get a Dog waste bin in Tower Hamlets along Astor Avenue I was told on here and at Council I wouldnt get it.....I did..and I walk and Cycle from
Buckland Avenue Daily and use Barton Path and High Street everyday. - Sheila
I know the enforcement you are referring to and I followed that up for you.
The Enforcement
Officers I am talking about are the parking attendants that were redesignated as enforcement officers, but only enforce motoring/parking offences.
Howard, I may well be naive/optimistic, but I am going to ask the Leader (PaulW) if
we can do this - for both the EOs and PCSOs.
If Waste Services emphasise to their work-force, the need to pick up dog-poo, that must help too.
Roger - Barry
Have you contacted the Home Front Bus man, Norman Burnett ?
That would be a big draw for the HC week-end too.
Roger - Roger - he is
down to come. - A stunning Ship has just arrived. This is one of the biggest ones ever seen here and is a new one on me...
The Emerald Princess.
This one probably needs to go across the top of the editorial section above as the smaller scale of pix down here in the comments section doesn't do it justice. Anyone want to pop along to see cruise liners on a
large scale.. well now's your chance. The pic shows it gingerly trying to fit between the two lighthouses on the two piers.
Massive scale.
Just to give some scale in relation to the
surroundings have added this wider pic. - ah yes paulb see the beast turning up from my front room window.
- That's good news Barry - well done; I'm sure it will be a good draw.
Roger - these cruise ships are like london busses,dont see none for ages
then 3 come all at once. - Hello Barry never knew you had a uniform like that lol
- mel,he has also got an old
army one as well.that is his richard gere uniform. - Wow what a fantastic shot of those 2 cruise liners. I can never understand why Dover doesn't do more to welcome the
passengers. A local brass band,Morris Dancers,stalls selling local Kent produce , arts and craft and souvenirs could be placed along side the berth tempting them to spend a few dollars here before scooting off to London or
Canterbury.
Other ports around the world really lay out the red carpet when a cruise liner berths. - they are great photos, agreed more should be done to welcome the
passengers. - Not forgetting the exquisite Princess Daphne. Originally built in 1955 by Swan Hunters on the Tyne she was originally named the Port Sydney and served
as a cargo liner on the Australia run. After conversion to a passenger ship in the '70s she sailed under a various names and, to the best of my knowledge, visited Dover previously as the Switzerland and the Ocean Monarch. She is now
operated by Classic International Cruises. - Fandabbydosie Photos there PaulB, the ships look great in the afternoon sun.
I feel exactly the same
Marek, Colette and I bought local gifts when we debarked at Amsterdam a few years back, whilst the terminals shops were closed, stalls inside did great business, as many tourists are always looking for local produce etc at cruise
terminals.
A Great opportunity for local farms and the Arts & Crafts market, I wonder the reason it hasn't happened in the past could be down to DHB?
I can see it all now in my minds eye, JHG could lead the Morris
Dancing troupe amongst the tickertape with a brass band playing in the background, whilst I could make a killing selling Forumite Voodoo dolls, I wonder which would sell the most? - Trouble is Barry than when you stop off at Amsterdam, Amsterdam is the place you want to see.
Dover is mostly the start of the end of a cruise, but when people come here
the place they want to see is London or Canterbury.
Chances are that Southampton has the same problem. - Wow the cruise liners are stunning great photos i
will again show them to Mark. - What local gifts does Dover offer visitors ? Can you buy a little plastic Dover castle ? or one encased in a dome with artificiel snow?
I don't remember ever seeing one. Maybe an opening for someone. - We get visitors coming into the shop asking about souvenirs of Dover, sadly I can not even direct
them to an appropriate shop. - Dover museum has some
- Thanks Keith but the museum is not the easiest of places to
give directions to when the visitor hardly speaks English. - Curiosity of Dover in Cannon Street has quite a few souvinirs of Dover - and they sell well too.
They also
have London souvinirs too.
I have said many times there should be local stalls down at the cruise terminal(s), selling just about everything local (or representing the locality) from Kent wines to EH and NT items and local themed
souvinir pieces - and yes it is down to DHB, although Kent Tourism have responsibility for what (leaflet-wise) is handed out there.
Roger - jan;
that would
be the case where ever the museum is sited
- from John Mavin
Not forgetting the exquisite Princess Daphne(left). Originally
built in 1955 by Swan Hunters on the Tyne she was originally named the Port Sydney and served as a cargo liner on the Australia run. After conversion to a passenger ship in the '70s she sailed under various names and, to the best of my
knowledge, visited Dover previously as the Switzerland and the Ocean Monarch. She is now operated by Classic International Cruises.
11 May 2011 at 11:00 am
EDIT NOTE: John I have reproduced your post.. this time with the added
pic. No sign of the pic first time round. It went awol. I reduced the size of the picture which helps with uploading. All working now.
PaulB - I
think it is quite easy to point out where the Musuem is .
It is situated in a square surrounded by Banks a gloriuos cafe Dickens ,a fountain and has steps leading up to it . - Fountain? Is it working?
- I have to agree with Sue on this one, maybe also they might find it by looking out for the giant TV
lol - Fountain up and working for now, Strange that there are no soap bubbles overflowing said fountain, give it time :)
I know that the shop at East Cliff sells pieces
of encapsulated chalk which they supply to the museum, if I remember rightly they do have said castle in the dome and what a wonderful bit of 'Kitsch' they are too ;) - the old post office and gift shop next to the seafront underpass used to do a good trade in souvenirs.
- That's true Howard, I remember spying their
kitsch when I'd pop in to see my mate Phil who used to own the sub-post office there, they seemed to have more souveniers from London though. - There is a shop on Athol
Terrace, Kenny Stamps old shop, that sell mounted pieces of the White Cliffs chalk,
Certainly unique to Dover. - forgot about that one martin, "the chalk of the town" i
believe.
there was talk of them being a cafe as well as a shop at one time, has this come to fruition?
barry
a great shame when phil closed the post office there he provided an excellent service to people. - Phil Blackman there is a name from the past,Phil used to work with me on the railway,one day I was out in the eighties with some femail friends of mine from the TSB Bank
in Deal. One was a very tall girl called Vanessa and she was saying she found it hard to get a boyfriend because she was so tall.
Just the Phil limped by injured at Rugby so I introduced them and they are still together.....hope
he has forgiven me now! - john
there used to be a lady called vanessa that worked at the post office, is it the same one? - That was his wife Howard
- I have a bag that hangs on the wardrobe door handle. In this bag is a black money box
safe which we keep club funds in along with the clubs ledgers. At 3.20 am this morning the black box jumped out or was pushed out by something and woke me up. T here was only one handle still hanging on the door and the bag had not fell
down bearing in mind I hand been to the funeral of a very dear friend at 3.20 pm the same day. Is that lady that that knows about things like this still posting on here, or could it be because its Friday 13th - Alan yes Jeane is still a very active poster on here. Will let her know.
This is definitely one for our Jeane. A spooky story
indeed. - Alan, Don’t worry; it’s nothing bad, probably deceased friend’s way of getting your attention (he did that all right) and saying hello. I often think
they are genius at the things they do to get our attention. The time thing is always a pretty good indication too. My goddaughter died at 5:20pm and for several weeks after I woke (or was woken) at 5:20am each morning. - Regarding the "White Cliffs" memorabilia, didn't a chap who lived on Priory Hill make them?
- Thank
you again Jeane john was a good friend and will be missed by all club members he was one of life's gentlemen. - Thanks for that Howard, the name of the shop 'Chalk of
the Town' slipped my mind, I spoke to Ken Murphy who co owns the shop with his partner and they had put the cafe idea on hold as they can only afford to open the shop on a seasonal basis.
John yes, Phil told me that you used to
work together in the distant past (small world).
EVEN MORE ENTERTAINMENT FOR DOVER TO OFFER!
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"MURDER NIGHT" - Murder Mystery Dinner Theatre - 3 Course Meal & Licenced Bar!
Ticket-Line: 07920 255493 (£25)
---------------------------------------------
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- The new Mayor of Deal used to work with me too,Cllr Jim Cronk
- regarding p&o ferrys there is
a possabilaty of a strike looming over the summer months due to manning arangements,which are set by msa.apparently p&o want to cut to just below recomended levels.
sorse,last weeks dover
express. - p and o say that they have gone along with all the safety regulations and cleared everything with the maritime authorities.
the union begs to differ, let's
hope that there is no industrial action. - That Spirit of Britain is certainly a striking vessel-however I still think that TSS Dover would look even better with
that classic backdrop-the lighting conditions are perfect. Oops! sorry about the pun! - The Spirit of Britain is living up to its name, Twice
now we have travailed on her and twice we have found toilet's over flowing and the stink from stall urine hits you as soon as you walk through the door, locks broken on doors the outside bar and seating area looks like Dover's high
street with food and drinks spill everywhere there are not enough staff on board to cope with the day to day running of the ship. We are on her again on Sunday night on our return from the battlefields I will if its bad take some
photo's and post to to show that P&O only care about profit and not its Passengers - alan,so are you saying that p&o crap,if so try seafrance or dfds for a
change. - I was on the Spirit of Britain myself a week or so ago and it was fine both ways. Easy loading, easy exiting, it worked a dream considering its size and the amount of
cars and trucks it carries. Bumped into long distance driver and forumite Tom 'Guzzler' Mitchell on board and we had a good chat.
It is still very early days for the ship but yes I agree that there were too many people for the
staffing levels, as we found it hard to get a drink both ways as queues were very long. But once they adjust that it will be good. When we went though to be fair it was the recent hectic bank holiday with a lot, a lot, of people
travelling.
Alan I think I remember you saying you didnt like Seafrance either but I think both services do a good job. I havent been on the DFDS one as yet so cant comment. But when you consider the sheer volume of traffic
overall it works pretty good. - with regard to comments by paul and alan on staffing levels, the same applies to the older ferries.
the last 3 times i have
travelled the queues were long for all facilities, bar staff seemed to be overworked. - never had any problems with any of the ferry operaters,allways found the
toilets clean and working,short cues at the bars etc. - p & o are the only ferry operator taking foot passengers so i can only comment on them.
- howard,yes p & o are the only ones now,but when seafrance done footies they where quite good at doing it.it was only a matter of time before they stopped when duty free
came to an end.its a shame that dfds dont do footie trips but only has a small duty free shop. - One reason for the decline of Dover's retail offering over the years is the
lack of French/Belgian day foot passengers who used to come over in droves. This has to be laid fair and square at the door of the ferry companies and DHB who find foot passengers a nuisance. - It was many years ago though Peter - before Jean and I came to Dover I believe.
Perhaps it is time for a (nother) concerted effort to encourage them over, especially with the £ and
Euro at such an advantageous rate for them to come and make some purchases here - foot or car passengers, or take lunch with Peter.
Some months ago - early part of last year, I investigated the cost of placing an advert in the
most popular local (Calais and Boulogne) paper and found it ran into thousands of Euros for just one advert, so dropped the idea; I had created the advert, so the paper knew what the advert would have been - just too expensive.
The
Discover Dover leaflet was good while it lasted and it was on board the (LD Lines and P. & O.) ships too.
Roger - I welcome this news about more investment
in the Port of Dover; many of these were announced (to those attending) at the previous PCC meeting at the ARK in Tower Hamlets back in March.
The timing of it now though, is very significant, is it not ? With the expected
announcement imminently of what Teresa Villiers' decision on the future of the Port is to be, this shows the Government Minister that DHB can find the funds quite easily.
I hope the DPPT can put in a counter proposal or some
reassurance that they can raise monies, as and when expected - or needed.
Roger - if the whole comes to fruition,dhb could be giving lip service to hold on to
the port to make a profit,and a large golden handshake for bob goldfinger and co. - Peter, I remember those times very well. The town used to be full of those from the other
side of the Channel spending their money in our shops. I certainly hope that that we get the foot passengers back in the not too distant future.
Part of the problem is that pedestrians and non drivers are almost ignored in every
form of planning, the god called car rules. Large stores are well out of town, hospitals are quite literally miles away meaning an awful journey to get treatment or visit friends. - interesting press release, like roger i am surprised as to where the money has suddenly come from.
hopefully all will be revealed at the public meeting tomorrow. - howard,i put it down to lip service and a bit of corperate jargon.or a golden hand shake bluff.
- Interesting
that they have chosen to make this an announcement of investment in improvements when most of the work is already underway or has been planned and programmed. The pier work alone has been discussed, with progress reports, at at least
the last two Port Consultative Committee meetings. - Fantabulous picture of the new Spirit of Britian!
Have just got back from waving daughter Saskia off
to Italy on the DFDS line to Dunkirk. Haven't used them before myself but will be interesting to hear her take on it when she gets back. Reasonably priced at £60 return. Her destination Venice, overnight at Nancy, France, then on to
Lake Garda and then Venice. Ah! Venice, wish I was there right now! - I bet you had to twist her arm to go on that trip!! Will be interesting to hear in
time what DFDS is like. Dont get any info through from them but here is a bit of info from Seafrance on a few half term bargains which may prove helpful to one or two local families.
The DFDS ships look like P&O from a distance.
Their new colours are the same which I always think is a bit of a shame. No corporate impact while out on the briney blue.
* * info below from Seafrance. Anyone been to Amiens??
The
children will soon be off school for another week, and now that the weather has truly taken a turn for the better, why not keep the family entertained with a trip across the Channel for a half-term break in Amiens, Northern France? With
fares from just £35 each way for a car and up to nine passengers and family friendly activities and accommodation in Amiens from just £70pp for a whole weekend, a family of four can get away this half term for as little as £87.50pp
return.
Every weekend from now until 15 October 2011 families can benefit from a special package at the All Seasons hotel, that takes in the very best that Amiens has to offer, from water based activities to cultural excursions.
This family package includes two nights’ accommodation on a B&B basis, entrance to Zoo D’Amiens, a visit to The Hortillonnages - Amiens’ floating gardens, a boat ride on the Saint-Leu canals and an audio-guide around the magnificent
UNESCO Gothic cathedral, Notre-Dame d'Amiens from just £70pp. With SeaFrance crossings from £35 each way, this special offer means a family of four can experience an action-packed weekend in Amiens from just £87.50pp.
The three
-star All Seasons hotel is situated in the heart of Amiens, just a stone’s throw from the main attractions, meaning guests are ideally located to explore all the vibrant city has to offer – and all less than two hours drive from Calais.
SeaFrance operates up to 30 daily car ferry crossings on the Dover-Calais route. Fares for a car and up to nine passengers start from just £35 each way (£70 return) online for any duration and from £22 return for a day
trip.
For more information on the family package or to book visit www.visit-amiens.com
To book your crossing visit www.seafrance.com or call 0871 22 22 500*
- Whatever the political maneoverings over the port ( political with a small p) it is nevertheless great news to see this continued investment. This is a
considerable amount of money and will ensure that the port stays top dog with the service it delivers.
We have often spoken before in similar terms to paragraph 3 from the top of the page, how the port manages to keep going
through all adversity... snow, ice, blizzards, ash clouds, stormy weather, the wrong kind of leaves, the wrong kind of snow etc..the only thing that ever seems to bring it to a halt is industrial action.
This new investment will
ensure a slicker operation, and it is already fairly slick as it is. Just whisked through it myself last week on the ship illustrated above. Out of what looks to be chaos of the casual eye comes a remarkable operation. Heathrow and
others could learn from it. - Paul B. You seem to wear rose tinted glasses when commenting on the port.
The announcement of an £85M investment is a spoiler
for the peoples port investors, simply intimating a potential un accounted for debt.
In truth it is just the cost of work underway and delayed work that was recommended in DHB’s own consultants report - Port of Dover 30 Year
Master Plan Zoning Report, July 2005. Note the date of the report and it’s recommendations
This same report highlighted that the port was far from efficient and by undertaking infrastructure works and improving management of the
port the Eastern Docks could cope with forecast traffic to 2024. With a traffic buffer zone outside Dover the Eastern Dock has capacity till 2035. Hence no real need for terminal 2.
More smoke and mirrors from Bob G. whom I’m sure
would chuckle at your comparison to airport management at Heathrow etc. There is no real comparison as the volumes are totally different. - The large investment is because
the Board have failed to do what they are there for in recent years, at least now they seem to be acknowledging their neglect and are trying to right some wrongs. - Very good
news that Dover Port will receive this investment; DHB are competent, with plenty of experience in running the Port. - Just to let people know if they dont
know already..it was previously mentioned in our Forum section.
DOVER HARBOUR BOARD are having their community meeting tonight at The Ark, Noahs Ark Road, Dover.
Monday 16th May.
Starts at 5pm but
refreshments from 4.30. You will be able to hear about their plans for the Ports future which includes I believe a community trust initiative which allows the people of Dover to have a stake in the port...but no doubt there will be more
on all that tonight and more information on this new £85Million spend, the news of which was carried by all the national media. - To clarify
Graham's remark that the 2005 master plan highlighted that the port was far from efficient, what it actually said was that the ferry deck utilisation was 50%, which has nothing to do with the port and everything to do with the ferry
companies supplying a continuous 24/7 service to their customers. Quote: "The freight traffic is not steady through the day and also shows variations through the week. The ferry operators set up their service schedules so that with
everything working well there is enough capacity at peak hours. The same ships are then run through the day with a vessel on the Dover Calais run typically making 5 round trips per day. This results in the seemingly low deck utilisation
(a measure of how full the ships are on average) of around 50%. This low average deck utilisation allows the port to clear a backlog of waiting trucks quite quickly after a period of disruption. If the average rose to around 70%, as is
usual on longer ferry crossings, the port would take days to clear a backlog." - So a campaign or referendum to change Trust rules, to channel more money into Dover/Deal,
might have been money and time, better spent? - Ed,
The small quote from the whole report does not include the many other points the authors were identifying. The 50% deck
utilisation could be increased by greater use of a booking system. Thus raising deck utilisation to 70%, linking this to a buffer zone for greater efficiency. This is about efficient management of the traffic flow not just deck
utilization.
They also highlighted the problem of a turn up and go unmanaged traffic flow as the major contributor to peak flows blocking Snargate St and Townwall Street.
By simple deduction it is unmanaged traffic flows
that cause the problems of so much traffic turning up (without a booked passage) when there is a problem at the docks. To then say the 50% deck utilisation is the key to clearing a problem caused by poor management in the first place is
a little surreal. (No doubt a DHB inclusion in the report).
The report also goes on to say that the infrastructure/land use at the Eastern Docks is inefficient.
It is this inefficiency that, when tackled, allows the Eastern
Docks to be used till 2024 without the need for T2. As now acknowledged by DHB. The ferry operators are doing their bit by building new super ferries.
The true extent of the inefficiencies may have been suppressed as the report
has probably been heavily edited by DHB. - A strange presentation by the DHB this evening, which seemed to be padded out heavily on the pension provisions by the port and
the pension trust. Taking almost as much time as the 3 other Directors on Operations, Finance and Safety.
Good challenge by the French ferry operator.
Few figures on what could come Dovers way but lots of "we must talk"
and "we must consult on this". All seems a bit late when they say there proposal to govmt has been in so long.
Light weight and an after thought was the impression. - To be fair to DHB, the minister has moved the goalposts in quite a big way this morning. Some of the new criteria will give them serious food for thought.
- Graham
I am sure the ferry companies would be very happy if they could raise their ferry deck utilisation from 50% to 70% but clearly the special circumstances pertaining on the short sea militate against this. I would
presume that if the trucking companies were forced to book passages when the ships are running more than half empty precisely because that is not when it suits the truckers commercial requirements then they would simply shift to another
route, probably the North Sea where the ships sit in port all day and sail overnight giving the drivers the advantage of a full nights kip before they hit the road in the morning. Or take the tunnel.
Agree with you about the
pensions chappy going on at considerable length at the DHB presentation (I was the good looking bloke sitting in the front row with a couple of my wimmen). I remember the chairman, Roger Mountford, doing the same at a previous
presentation before pulling himself up and saying apologetically "I find pensions fascinating" when he belatedly realised that nobody else did!
Also agree that Robin Wilkins of SeaFrance gave a good account of himself,
emphasising the point that privatisation will result in extra money having to be found to pay for the borrowings and to pay for the local community fund and that this will mainly come from the principal customers, the ferry
companies. - Ed,
I don’t think the move to a mainly booking
system would be easy or quick. But it is essential to manage the traffic flow to and through Dover. (and improve efficiency)
It has worked for Eurotunnel and for the majority of the railway routes, although the southeast has not
adopted it. However, in the southeast travelling at peak attracts a significant premium on the trains.
The key, I think, is the port adopting good practises (where appropriate) from other transport sectors. DHB Bob G appears to
have brought nothing of the efficient practises of airports to the port operations, other than drastically reducing direct employed staff. (Noted in the figures for overall numbers of pension members- I was listening)
One of the
key points I picked up was the Chairman saying they worked closely with ferry operators, but the feedback from the French ferry representative suggested it was far from true.
A key lesson learned from the railway industry
privatisation was train operator and infrastructure owner must work closely together, particularly for operational efficiency.
A pleasure to debate this with you and I think we would both agree that whatever happens Dover must
reap benefits from any change. The days of Dover taking the full impact of port operations with no benefits must be stopped. - So is the opinion that the Peoples Port will
go ahead or are DHB being given time to amend their proposal? - looks like bob goldfingers golden hand shake is slipping from his
grasp. - martin
the answer to your question is neither, in my opinion. - Martin: Not sure
that either bid is affected by the latest additional criteria. The WigginsPort proposal is to give the community a gift of £50m of debt from the £400m debt they propose to borrow, and the DHB proposal is a straight payment of £10m real
money with more to come, plus both envisage port employee participation.
Graham: The railways do indeed offer a comparison with the ferries. Their main customers have to travel in the rush hours and the rest of the day sees light
use. I imagine that their load factor is consequently substantially less than the 50% on the ferries. The freight companies using the ferries are similarly constrained in the days and times at which their trucks can travel and no
booking and pricing structure is going to change that. It is a different matter with tourist traffic and the ferries are often quite busy in the wee small hours with tourists taking advantage of the cheaper rates. As we know, freight
showed a decrease over the last year whereas tourist traffic is on the up and up so this might see a slight improvement in the load factor. - Thank you Howard and Ed, I got
the feeling that the Peoples Port had seen the announcement as a victory for their proposal, the cynic in me saw it as the Government telling DHB you will have to go a step further on the Community aspect before we give you the go ahead.
Time will tell. - The Olympic torch coming through Dover should be a massive boost for the Town, massive crowds expected.
- from those that have time to attend the dhb meeting it appears neither the peoples port nor DHB have the answers at mo.
- DDC on the SALE
OF TRUST PORTS
Dover District Council is welcoming the Secretary of State for Transport’s decision to launch a consultation on the criteria for the sale of major trust ports, which was announced yesterday.
Cllr Paul Watkins, Leader of Dover District Council, said: “We welcome the launch of this consultation, and are pleased to see that the Secretary of State has recognised many of the issues
we have raised in our earlier representations in response to the proposed sale of the Port of Dover.”
Proposed criteria include that a sale will not be approved ‘unless the sale is considered likely to deliver an ongoing and
significant level of community participation in the port.’ This includes ‘the ability to influence the port’s long term development and may include the right to receive a share in the profits of the port.’
Other proposed criteria
look at the future development of the port, fair price, fair competition, sale process, employee involvement, and transport networks.
Cllr Paul Watkins continued: “We are pleased to see this recognition of the importance of
community participation, including people’s ability to influence the port’s development. We are also heartened to see that there is a recognised need to ensure that strategic transport networks are protected. We will continue to work
with our partners in the community, and whichever bodies deliver the Council’s stated objectives, and we look forward to making an appropriate response to this consultation.”
- ends
- - PaulW, it might be appropriate if you would restate the Council's stated objectives as mentioned in the last paragraph of your press release, also do you know
what objectives KCC have published regarding the port? - DDC RELEASE: DOVER CELEBRATES SUPERB NEWS
ON LONDON 2012 OLYMPIC TORCH RELAY ROUTE
Superb news is celebrated in Dover today - with the major announcement that the Olympic Torch is coming to Dover as part of its journey around the UK, and the town is set to shine as one of the specially selected sites for an
exciting Evening Celebration.
As part of the Olympic Torch Relay, an Evening Celebration event will be held in Dover on Wednesday 18 July 2012. The event is being hosted by Dover District Council following a successful campaign
run in partnership with Kent County Council and community partners, including local schools with the excellent Pass the Passion torch campaign. The event is aimed at thanking the community, and showcasing the many historic and cultural
attractions of the area.
Dover is one of 66 Evening Celebration locations across the UK confirmed today by the London 2012 Organising Committee of the Olympic and Paralympic Games (LOCOG). The evening events will offer thousands
of people the opportunity to come together and get involved in celebrations and share in the Olympic spirit. As part of the events LOCOG and the Presenting Partners, Coca-Cola, Lloyds TSB and Samsung, will stage exciting entertainment
shows where a cauldron will be lit from the Olympic Flame, marking the end of the day’s proceedings.
The Olympic Flame will arrive in the UK from Greece on Friday 18 May 2012 and the 70 day Torch Relay will start at Land’s End,
Cornwall on the morning of the 19 May 2012. On leaving Land’s End, the Olympic Flame is expected to travel an estimated 8,000 miles across the UK, giving thousands of communities and individuals their moment to shine as the Olympic
Flame comes to their doorstep. The Olympic Flame will arrive at the Olympic Stadium on 27 July 2012 for the lighting of the cauldron at the Opening Ceremony, signifying the start of the London 2012 Olympic Games.
Cllr Paul Watkins, Leader of Dover District Council said: “This is headline news for Dover and the whole area, and follows a sustained campaign and hard work by a range of community partners. This is a major
opportunity to showcase Dover in a national and international arena, and follows the eyes of the world turning to the district for the Open Golf Championship this year. This will provide an important economic boost, as well as a chance
for community celebrations, and is a great opportunity to help spread the Olympic spirit across the area.”
- ends -
Picture shows Paul Watkins on TV last night where Paul in addition to the offical
statement above, also ruefully reflected on the disappointed that Dover wasn't the Port of Entry for the Flame.
"It can hardly come across on the ferry" said Paul
"what with BA being one of the main
sponsors"
DOVER DISTRICT COUNCIL ELECTS CHAIRMAN AND LEADER
Dover District Council elected its Chairman and Leader at the Annual Meeting of the Council last night (Wednesday 18 May 2011).
The Chairman of the Council is Cllr Sue Nicholas and Vice Chairman is
Cllr Paul Le Chevalier.
The Leader of Dover District Council is Cllr Paul Watkins and Deputy Leader is Cllr Sue Chandler.
- ends
Big picture shows Sue Nicholas in recent
times with the two Rogers
...Roger Walkden and the late Roger Frayne. Smaller pic shows Paul Watkins.- Peter,
Growth & expansion of the
Port.
Community benefit & decision making input.
Pension fund put in balance. Employees given shares in new entity.
These are simplistic paraphased objectives that I can quote without going back 15 months to give you
chapter & verse.
Watty - interesting release that
do we know the only alternative party to the tories in the chamber an there
shadow election results>? - congratulations to our susan, vic cannot call her the stand in anymore.
- at
this moment in time i won't comment
being a labour man with a long memory im afrai wouldnt be my choice.
but that said mine was one of info only - Methinks a
new hat is in order! Well done Sue. - Sue!!!!!! Congratulations! A job well earned. Nice one.
- Congratulations Sue xxxxx
- It was good to see Sue installed as Chairman of Dover District Council - she deserved it after 24/25 years as a Councillor; the sad part
(to me) was that every single Labour Councillor voted against her appointment.
How's that for grown-up behaviour ?
Roger - Congratulations Sue x
- 2 weeks into a 4 year reign and party sniping has started already.
how about elected people getting the flowers back, toilets sorted, the litter cleared up and other
things that matter to the council taxpayer?
some of us despair!! - Congratulations Sue.
How very petty of the Labour Councillors, or they must have
been threatened with the whip. - Couldn't agree more Jan.
Howard, are you calling my comment sniping, because I mentioned that all the Labour Councillors voted against
Sue's appointment, or the fact that they did ?
It wasn't sniping, it was a comment - and a true one.
I agree about what we should be/are doing, as
Councillors.
Roger
- roger
i will find out about the above as it is strange and im sure the story is bigger than that.
on sue in general;
sue
has shown that she carries a personal vote,
joining the council as a lib dem with a big majority, then changing to the conservatives, would be hard to hold your vote in most wards but sue has that personal vote that allows her to do
so.
very few cllrs probably about 5 have that abillity in todays council.
I have always got on with sue an worked closrely with her in the past.
good luck sue - Thank you all for your good wishes .In my acceptance speech less than half a page I did state
"In the forthcoming year I sincerely hope we will all work as a team for the greater good of all whom we have been elected to
serve"
I will work with all regardless of politics .
Im hoping I can atternd Community events and mix with people from all parts of the district .When I was a Cabinet member I used to attend luncheon clubs in Aylesham .I love
people so here is hoping for a good year . - yes roger, keith made his comments about the appointment and you added your party bit.
these things are irrelevant in the
grand order of things.
in the context of the problems of the town and the image given to visitors everybody regardless of party affiliation should be working together to sort out the problems that the townspeople talk about all
the time. - Aww check out Mr Sutton.. how lovely does he look?!
And of course, Ronnie and Sue look glam as always.. looking forward to the mayors balls
already..ohh what to wear?! - okay
so iv spoken to gordon the shadow leader.
he tells me the labour by a majority vote decied not to support any conservative
nomination, so this is not any personal vendetta against one individual. so tha scotches that one.
with regard to the politics rumours circulated that cllr fred scales a very prominent cllr in the chamber was to oppose mr
watkins for leader hes been replaced as dep leader, and demoted
we recall how sue was treated when she challenged her party
and mr watkins, but it all came good for her
wonder what wll happen to cllr scales
with
regard to the labour group decision its my view they would have been better putting forwar there own choices from there own benches ,maybe be defeated bu at least they would have given it a go.
i dont go much on this just voting
against the conservatives or any other parties.
but before everyone slags off the labour party
the tories in opposition were no different - great spread
of pictures from paul there, everyone looks like they had a great time at the ceremony.
cannot remember seeing terry sutton on here before, a dover legend, just have to avoid buckland bridge when he is out and about. - Good to see Danielle in the picture with Terry Sutton, she was a former Hoverspeed hostess. A very nice lady.
- Great evening last night and a very deserving result. Cllr Ronnie Philpott and Cllr Ann Smith will I'm sure do us proud over the coming year.
Cllr Sue Jones did a stalwart job
over the last 2 years and no doubt will enjoy some more time with her Family now, a well deserved rest.
A Huge congratulations to Cllr Sue Nicholas, nice pic I took of you and PaulB above Sue, Hope you like it.
Also another
Huge congratulations to Terry Sutton, I too will watch out for you at Buckland bridge Terry, Lol!
Howard, don't forget PaulB's (better than himself) assistant photographer
Lol!!!!!!! - i assumed you were not there colette, how come you are not in any of the photos?
good to see some new faces there to go with the
stalwarts.
mr and mrs wiggins port and terry sutton of course. - Thats because I was behind the camera lens most of the time Howard, you know how these
Editors work their staff hard Lol! - keith
reading through your post about elections to posts in the new council, i am seeing it that gordon and chums did not put
up any candidates but voted against the candidates that the blues put up.
if that is correct all seems rather odd. - Yes all went off very smoothly lastnight,
good to see Terry Sutton get a very well earned honorary freeman and a pleasure to meet his wife, and also congratulations to sue now you have to keep us councillors at district in check LOL!!!.
And well done to Ronnie and Ann im sure
it will be a busy year, and they have my support, and a great set of pictures to mark the event.
- Howard, possible rather childish sour grapes that they lost the
election. If that is the case a good job they lost. - Sorry you disapproved of me mentioning it Howard, but there you go, we can't all agree on what should be posted can we ?
Is there anything else you'd rather me not mention ?
Roger - sorry roger but my criticism of you and keith stands.
the apparent infighting over
petty politics up at whitfield brings to mind a picture of nero playing his fiddle while rome burns down.
i really thought that the recent report from the "lonely planet" guide and the link to the "guardian" report would have
concentrated minds to doing something to stop the rot. - That's obviously your prerogative Howard; so the next time I know that something wrong has happened or
something untrue has been said, I keep quiet about it in case it upsets those who did that wrong ?
I wonder why it is O.K. to do the wrong thing in the first place, but not O.K. to bring it to people's
notice.
Roger - Another exciting visitation today. Two different than the norm Liners heavily featuring black and white in
their make-up, rather than the hugely colourful ones we have seen of late...so a bit different. Big ships too...The Ryndam and The Constellation for your delight and delectation.
In today basking in the sunshine if anyone wants to
take a look.
Hope to see some of the passengers around town today but sadly as ever the ships were met by a fleet of buses. - .
- took your advice paul and had a look for myself.
weather rather gloomy but plenty of americans around.
- There were a lot of foreigners in the shop this morning all spending money so not all went out of town. They sounded as if they were Dutch.
- Really Jan? All those people on luxury cruises in a charity shop!! Cheapskates!
- Not all of our stuff is
junk you know, although a lot is.LOL. One man's junk is another's delight, thank goodness.
One man spent £45 on Wedgwood collectors plates and asked if we had any more, he did not ask for a discount either. - Ooh Jan, your stuff certainly isn't junk. There's many a good bargain there. Keep up the good work.
- I
notice Dover Harbour Board have suspended the out sourcing of their I.T. Dept until the end of the consultation period.Could this be the minds of their very expensive public relations slash media Dept working overtime.Perhaps it is to
show how at one with the community they are.Who know's we might even see a "you tube " presentation to why they are different.Or even perhaps a sponsorship of a local,may be even Dover Rugby Club.My ,My how cynical would that
be. - You were a wee bit unlucky there yesterday howard you caught the gloomy part of the day. The mist did roll in for a while. But as
we know it became glorious yesterday,even yours truly ventured up the seafront to get the cobwebs off. I dallied in the Dover Marina Hotel and even went next door to their new ice cream parlour too...where they serve a name of ice cream
(Movenpick) familiar to me from my days in Switzerland.. when I used to regularly scale the Eiger and the Matterhorn...okay ..okay..Im phibbing on the last bit!
But yes back to Dover, it looked fab yesterday with those great
cruise liners as backdrop. And today here we have another whopper! the Eurodam. It's large. Another black and white monster of the deep. The picture shows her catching the very early sun at 5.30am this morn.
Good to hear from Jan
there and from other guys in the Forum that there were lots of cruise visitors around town yesterday. Gadzooks some of them lingered..great stuff! Lets have more of that... its another Dutch ship today as the Eurodam is from the Holland
America Line.
- My sons run a business in Dartford .Last week they had a Japanese client to visit .With some time on his hands his wish was to see an
English Castle .So my sons directed him to Ebbs Fleet where he boarded the hIgh Speed Link to Dover
The visitor caught a bus to the castle then returned to town where he ate fish and chips .He then returned to London looked
round the sites of London .
His last port of call was Blue Water .
- Well...did he enjoy his day?
- By all accounts yes .Still the orders roll in .Britain is not all doom and gloom .
- Around
1,350 cruise passengers from the Netherlands visited Dover yesterday (off the Ryndam), there were only 3 tours to Canterbury as the majority of the passengers wanted to visit our town and castle. - That Eurodam is certainly a whopper of a ship, we checked in over 1700 passengers today Phew!!
Starbucks at Dover Marina Hotel with its ice cream parlour is indeed a winner,
only opened four days ago, hope it does well.
JanH, I was up in London last week and whilst I was in Covent Garden I popped into Lucy in Disguise, Lily Allen's shop, to have a look at their retro clothes collection. Well it was
very disappointing, some were badly stained, torn and very crumpled, obviously not ironed. They were very expensively priced too. You would find better, cleaner retro clothes in the charity shops at a fraction of the
price.
Good Luck with the Launch tonight guys.....
DCR RELEASE....
“Dover Community Radio (DCR) invites you to
the launch of their studios with a special opening night on Monday 23rd May 2011. The evening starts at 8pm at the Phoenix Social and Railway Club in Crabble Road, Dover where the studios are based.
During the event potential members have the chance to sign up to the DCR membership scheme so they can become involved with this exciting project.
There will also be prizes to be won during the night and the chance for
visitors to tour the studios and learn more about the project which includes the launch of an on-line radio station due to happen next month.
The station is going to serve all the towns and villages in Dover district including
Dover, Deal and Sandwich and promises to offer training schemes to all members. The station when it goes live will offer a broad mix of programming to cater for a variety of tastes including music from the 1920s to today, drama, arts and
documentaries. The team are also hoping to offer a dedicated local news and information service provided via the on-line streaming and the pod-casts available on its website. Local music and unsigned acts will also provide a big part of
the service on air.
Monday night sees the launch of the station with special guests and local musicians performing including Ebony and Harley Johnson and Roger Allen. The event is free and we would like to see all sectors of
the Dover community attend to find out more about their dedicated on-line community radio service. Doors open at 8pm. More information can be found on our website: www.dovercommunityradio.co.uk or by emailing us at
info@dovercommunityradio.co.uk”
- we had visitors to the cafe today who are getting the wheelie rubbish bins ready to be delivered to homes instead
of the sea gulls favourite pecking bags been told they start delivering June 6th - great news, could it be arranged that the inaugural bin is delivered to the domicile of
one councillor goodwin, he will be most gratified? - can i have mine gold plated with a diamond encrusted handle.
- I think I shall have to add that one to the library. Shame the cover pic of the Hebridean Princess only had the Gateway flats in the distant background!
- Yes I think you will enjoy this book Peter. Shame that we have lost the best bookstore in town as it had a whole collection of titles on Dover. Let us hope that W H Smith will
take up the slack and stock all these local titles.
On my shelf over there in the corner I can see my recent acquisitions..
Haunted Dover by Lorraine Sencicle
Dover Past and Present by Paul Wells ( our Scotchie) and Jeff
Howe
Hauntings, ghost stories from kent. Edited by Katherine May
and now Cruise Ships of Dover by John Mavin
I'm sure I have others too languishing somewhere... all very good and all from local
authors. - This is definitely a must for the collection, if you're interested in either books on Dover or cruise ships of the past and present, the views of the
ships and surroundings are excellent. Well Done John. - Thats stonkingly great news about our seafront! Wow!!
A thousand times 'well done' to everyone
concerned.
RIBA are the tip top organisation..if they give you an award you know its good! - What great news, how nice to receive some positive
feedback.
Now for the rest of the town and it's centre, then we will not get those negative comments from some of the media. - fully deserved, both the promenade and
sea sports centre are superb.
the best place to see the design of the prom is up at st martin's battery, looks really artistic from there. - Luckily they
didn't see it when the kiosk was slap bang in the middle !! - Really well deserved and well done to the seafront! Those responsible should be
proud. - We have to give Paul Watkins, the Conservative Leader of Dover District Council, a lot of credit for some of the developments that have
taken place under his watch. The picture left shows him at DDC headquarters several years ago..2008 or maybe even late 2007...pointing to a notice board to highlight the various agencies involved in the various projects that were
underway at the time. He took myself (and my young assistant ColetteB!) on a tour of the building showing us the various developments underway or in the pipeline.
Years later and we have seen some cracking stuff delivered by an
amalgamation of bodies as shown in the statement above at top of the page. KCC, DDC, DHB etc etc and of course the SeaChange funding.
The Seafront Dover is, right now, the best it has ever been..surely. And with the new Dover
Marina Hotel slotting into the regenerated mix, it really is a thumbsup to all concerned. - Fantastic news! Our stunning new Dover Esplanade is certainly very
worthy of this very prestigious RIBA award and a Huge well done to all involved.
PaulB, indeed I do remember Paul Watkins proudly informing us back in 2007 about various projects that were underway and Wow! look at what has been
achieved! Great work.
Had a lovely walk along the promenade late yesterday afternoon and enjoyed the beauty of it all. - Sorry, I thought this was ugly while it was
being built, I have been down there and still think it is ugly and just hope if it wins any awards (I give up!) it will not prove to be like the White Cliffs Experience for which awards seem to have been the kiss of death. - Without wishing to put a downer on any achievement that Dover gains...but was the old seafront really that bad? Was it really needed and was it money
well spent bearing in mind the sorry state of the St James/DTIZ area? - the new seafront was done using "seachange" dosh from the last government.
there was no choice
of how it could be spent, thankfully no tantrums happened and our betters grabbed the money while it was still there.
i cannot see any similar money being on offer for a decade or so. - I quite like it, especially if viewed at night from the Dover Marina Hotel, preferably with a Martini in hand, shaken not stirred, whilst watching the lights going through
their colour sequence on a warm summers eve. - i suppose after that recommendation the hotel will soon have "by royal appointment" over the entrance.
- I like it. It is a big improvement, creative and imaginative, and a bloody good advertisement for Dover. Well done
Watty! - Very good news to see our seafront get this recognition, from the RIBA. we should always make the most of such a good asset.
- Yes Im also a fan too and thoroughly concurr with Jan and Bern there in that it is a terrific asset for Dover and a great advertisement. It should help with marketing the
town. Have re-done the picture at the top of the page, made it larger, so that everyone can get a better look. This is a tip top Award and no mistake.
Initially I wasnt sure of the design myself as it all looked rather raw. You
may remember us talking previously about the join for example looking awkward. I speak of the join between the pink and white pavement..but it was just newness. Time has corrected the problem..several rain showers and several storms
later and it has all come together very well indeed. It is fresh and novel and I dont think there is anywhere quite like it. In an ideal world we would have a Blue Flag for the water as well. Just imagine the marketing potential with
that combination. - I agree Paul, but as mentioned on one of the threads, there are many aspects and requirements to getting a blue badge, water quality is just
one of them.
Roger - Now that you have sized up the photo PaulB it looks as though someone pictured in the bottom right hand corner is making off with a
seagull.
Great vista, if it was golden sand instead of a pebble beach it could be mistaken for Cannes or Monte Carlo. - striking picture of the sea front there,
would look good in a tourist brochure. - The information following immediately below came in from DHB prior to the RIBA Award being announced...but very interesting in
light of developments.
**
Seafront starts to Blossom.
As the days start to warm up you’ll see the appearance of green shoots among the pebbles and trees beginning to bud on the new Dover
seafront esplanade. Planted last October, almost 2,750 plants are bursting into life, having established secure roots under the shingle.
The planting, an important aspect of the £2 million esplanade development which was part-
funded by Dover Harbour Board, will see Norway Maple, Salt Cedar and Holm Oak trees framing the popular seafront. Twenty-seven varieties of coastal plants such as English Stonecrop, Sea Campion and Rock Sea Spurry will make the
transformation complete.
Much like alpine varieties, coastal plants are often very small and grow close to the ground. They must be able to cope with strong winds, have the ability to retain moisture with long root systems and
tolerate a large range of temperatures as well as enjoying a good dose of salt spray.
The choice of native British wildflowers will not only provide a splash of colour along the seafront but also supply food for butterfly and
moth larvae.
Mike Krayenbrink, Director of Port Development said
“The seafront development has been years in the planning and it is great to see the finishing touches, which were planted last October, finally
revealing themselves. This can only add to the local community’s enjoyment of the esplanade and hopefully encourage visitors to linger a while longer in Dover.”
- Wow! Stunning enlargement of the Dover seafront photo there PaulB. I didn't realize there was so much planting done under the shingle, will be good
to see it all blossom over time......... Ah! nature and our award winning new esplanade in perfect harmony! - Congratulations to everyone involved in the Dover Esplanade
project. It really is a fantastic addition to the waterfront and something that Dover can be proud of. It would indeed be excellent if we could gain a Blue Flag for the beach, but I'm pretty sure this does require a number of
criteria, including water quality, and I believe, lifeguards during the summer season. Having said that, it would be a great goal to aim for and would attract a lot of families. Then, of course, we need to start work on improving the
town centre and retail offer!
CALLING ALL BEACH LOVERS!
Join SeaFrance staff at Kingsdown Beach for the World Ocean’s Day beach
clean.
On Wednesday 8 June, it’s World Ocean’s Day. If you love the seaside, show you care and join SeaFrance staff as they take part in their World Ocean’s Day Beachwatch
beach clean at Kingsdown beach for the Marine Conservation Society. If you’d like to come along and help collect and monitor litter, the team will be at the Oldstairs Road end of the beach at 9.30am on 8 June. Cleaning equipment will be
provided, but it is recommended that any children bring their own gloves. For more details call SeaFrance on 01304 828300.
SeaFrance is the lead sponsor for the Marine Conservation Society’s Beachwatch initiative and
with the support of its customers, has raised over half a million pounds for the charity. Every year, thousands of volunteers take part in Beachwatch beach cleans, making it the most influential fight against marine litter in the
UK.
SeaFrance operates up to 30 daily crossings on the Dover-Calais route. Fares for a car and up to five passengers start from just £35 each way online for any duration and from £22 return for a day trip.
For more
information or to book your crossings visit seafrance.com or call 0871 22 22 500*
- The Port of Dover are expecting half
a million passengers, 110,000 cars over the half-term week starting today Friday until Sunday - 10 days.
Busiest day will be Saturday 28th May with approx 62,000 passengers and 13,000 cars using the port, that equates to 43
passengers a minute.
Some going that.
- Half a million passengers in one week thats Huge, I'm keeping out of the way tomorrow!
Seafrance's Big Beach Clean for the Marine Conservation Society is a fine example of The Big Society at work, Well done to them and all the volunteers for their very successful annual
efforts. - yes colette seafrance and the volunteers do a great job.
one big question though, why kingsdown??
this must be the fourth time at least that a clean
up has been scheduled there.
- Either the inhabitants of the area are very untidy or a big wig who has input on the area to be cleaned lives in there. LOL
- It may be something to do with the fact that Dover Beach, which would be their other obvious target, is very clean already and is kept that way on a daily basis by DHB...so they
need somewhere else locally to focus on.
I believe, although trying to operate from memory here, that Seafrance do similar cleaning projects around the country in conjuction with others such as Marine Conservation. I think I
remember we had something through on that previously.
But if they are looking in and can let us know more we would be grateful. - ROGER;
In
reply to your comments i think the real reason people are reluctant to attend is the lack of action or teeth from this body.
KCC have as good as said this body is purely a cosmetic exercise, giving the body few powers, and little
dosh to be effective.
the subjects are ok, but its the outcomes that are required that you dont ever get feedback on(usually because there hasnt been any)
nobody wants to go to a talking shop.
PAULB;
That guy in the
picture on the left just trying to get some publicity
through being seen with me lol
- Keefy young man you've fired that message off in the wrong
location...I'm sure it should be on the Neighbourhood Forum thread. You missed your bullseye!! lol
I will transfer it for you if you havent done it yourself
already. - thankyou paulb
silly billy iam
if your able to delete the post below please do so
if not no
worries - a lot of that came out at the meeting the other monday at the ark christian centre. the harbour board seem to be meeting their environmental
committments.
great picture of the sea scorpion. - Its good to see that the harbour board are doing their bit for the environment in keeping the busy port clean
and green and also doing their bit for recycled waste.
We should hear more of these kind of things they are doing, they mighten always get such a ruff ride. - Very
impressive stuff above regarding DHB's commitment in keeping the port of Dover doing more that its fair share towards a greener future for all. It can't be easy keeping such a busy shipping port up to environmental standards so its a
good sign when a major port such as ours can maintain good water quality meeting the bathing water standards.
I've seen a seal bobbing up and down out in the harbour on quite a few occasions, wouldn't mind bumping into one whilst
out there having a paddle in the sea but stepping on one of those sea scorpions would really freak me out, Lol! - Do not forget,sponsership of Dover
Rugby Club next.Dover Harbour Board are really doing a good job (irony).What other marvels of investment will be unveiled over the coming weeks.I apologise if I seem cynical,but I know how they work.It reminds me of the smile on a
crocadile. - I think I remember you posting before Bluchers Dog and mentioning sponsorship of Dover Rugby Club but it leaves the rest of us bewildered as we dont know
what sponsoring the Rugby club has to do with anything. But if you put your name on it maybe DHB would know what you are talking about. But would your cynical post encourage them to back you?...you have to sell these things surely.
But its a seperate issue altogether, and of course we're all looking for sponsorship of some kind..even Doverforum! ( in our case general advertising)
But back to the issue of water..
yes it is good to see all these
improvements in the GREEN direction. Certainly sounds good. Pity I suppose that our beach is not a designated water bathing beach, not something I was aware of before to tell the truth, but if it was and it did have the famous blue flag
it would be quite a tourist fillip, attracting families to stay, especially now that we now have our new super seafront RIBA Award. The seafront has never looked better and the beach never cleaner.Tourism is the only potential earner on
the horizon around here and all these kinds of things help. But good to see that the situation has improved on the green front overall.
ColetteB watch out for the scorpions, they're coming to get you!lol I suspect they are
probably harmless although I couldnt swear to it, but obviously an indication of better water quality or they wouldnt have been included in the press release. We did carry some pictures of seals in the past, will at some point try to
find them. - maybe we dont know enough about what the DHB really does do
do we have people out there who could tell
us - there seems some confusion here, the bathing water is of high qaulity as evidenced by the notices on the sea front and the fact that the swimming clubs choose to swim
there.
the blue flag status is another thing altogether and is based on available facilities, as we are a not a seaside resort as such we do not have them. - It
probably is confusing..but six beaches along the coast eastwards of us here lost their Blue Flags recently simply because of poor water quality. That was simply it. I dont know what other facilities they offer that Dover doesnt offer.
Some of these beaches with flags or the ones that just lost their flags are quite basic.
Dover has a lot of facilities going for it now...hotels, snackeries, seafood dining stall, coffee shops, ice cream parlour, gardens, benches,
clean beach. The only downside, if you could call it a downside, is the too-ing and fro-ing of ships. But as we are beginning to see more clearly, this isnt affecting the
water. - paul
life guards are the first to spring to mind, i think that a first aid hut is a must too.
i will have to do some homework on it to find
the full s/p, i think roger knows more on this. - Not sure if I am the Roger you referred to Howard, or Roger Husk, but this is the criteria for a blue flag
award.
ENVIRONMENTAL EDUCATION AND INFORMATION
•Information about the Blue Flag must be displayed
•Environmental education activities must be offered and promoted to beach users
•Information about
bathing water quality must be displayed
•Information relating to local eco-systems and environmental phenomena must be displayed
•A map of the beach indicating different facilities must be displayed
•A code of
conduct that reflects appropriate laws governing the use of the beach and surrounding areas must be displayed
WATER QUALITY
•The beach must fully comply with the water quality sampling and frequency requirements
•The beach must fully comply with the standards and requirements for water quality analysis
•No industrial, waste-water or sewage-related discharges should affect the beach area
•The beach must comply with the
Blue Flag requirements for the microbiological parameter faecal coli bacteria (E.coli) and intestinal enterococci/streptococci
•The beach must comply with the Blue Flag requirements for the following physical and chemical
parameters
ENVIRONMENTAL MANAGEMENT
•The local authority/beach operator should establish a beach management committee
•The local authority/beach operator must comply with all regulations affecting the location and
operation of the beach
•The beach must be clean
•Algae vegetation or natural debris should be left on the beach
•Waste disposal bins/containers must be available at the beach in adequate numbers and they must be
regularly maintained
•Facilities for the separation of recyclable waste materials should be available at the beach
•An adequate number of toilet or restroom facilities must be provided
•The toilet or restroom
facilities must be kept clean
•The toilet or restroom facilities must have controlled sewage disposal
•On the beach there will be no unauthorised camping or driving and no dumping
•Access to the beach by dogs and
other domestic animals must be strictly controlled
•All buildings and beach equipment must be properly maintained
•Coral reefs in the vicinity of the beach must be monitored
•A sustainable means of transportation
should be promoted in the beach area
SAFETY AND SERVICES
•An adequate number of lifeguards and/or lifesaving equipment must be available at the beach
•First aid equipment must be available on the beach
•Emergency plans to cope with pollution risks must be in place
•There must be management of different users and uses of the beach so as to prevent conflicts and accidents
•There must be safety measures in place to
protect users of the beach
•A supply of drinking water should be available at the beach
•At least one Blue Flag beach in each municipality must have access and facilities provided for the physically
disabled.
There's a lot we don't do, but as DHB point out, it's the water quality that is the most important and that is good.
Roger
- What is
that in the photo above??????? - sea scorpion mel, completely harmless but tend to enter the water supply in houses and end up in the bath water.
roger
thanks for
info, cannot expect the harbour board or whoever buys it up to attend to all those demands, wholly impractical. - Nor would I Howard, that's why a blue flag is not that important to us here in Dover.
We have lots of people swimming in the Harbour (and out of it of course) during the
summer months and you don't hear of them getting ill because of the bad quality of the water.
Roger - ROGER;
Yes roger people(including myself)
swim/swam in the sea
but wh knows if this has damaged the health of these people? could have a longer term affect.
- Thanks for all that info Roger about the Blue
Flag. Well done with that. Must try and absorb it all. It does look a tall order but I feel sure Dover could meet most of that criteria. Written out like that it does look daunting but when you see the other beaches up along the coast to
have Blue Flags...doesn't Joss Bay have a Blue Flag. Ive been to Joss Bay...what facilities have they got that we dont got!!? It's very basic there.
I think Dover should try for a Blue Flag Roger as Im sure you can see yourself
what a boost it could be to local tourism.
Tourism is going to be very important in the years ahead..supplying many jobs here in Kent. On the horizon it looks to be our only way into job
creation. - Roger that is very interesting imfo you have put up for us, I do not see why Dover can not fit into any of that criteira we surely are a good way
there. The areas that we do not cover I am sure would not difficult to achive, after all we are trying to promote Dover and with our new look seafront should we not try every avenue to get there. - Some years ago I recall one of the water authorities telling the councils they were about to pump treated sewerage into the sea, far enough out not to be a
problem.
I was never convinced that would not become a problem in years to come. - following on your recent posts keith, i screamed at these blokes to get out of
the sea
- only this bloke took any notice though.
- did they plop in lol
- Howard McSweeney, are you trying to freak me out completely or what??? I'm now scared
to run the bath..........Lol! - i notice that mel has not been on since i posted that colette.
i bet she is giving mark grief!! - I thought one of those slid out of the shower this morning, wasn't too sure though.
- Well you girls spend
far too much time in the bath anyway..soaping and lathering and foaming, with all that exotic pink stuff..very expensive too especially in this time of gut crunching austerity. One or two of those little scorpion chaps would put an end
to all that soaping and foaming and lathering double quick..it shouldnt be allowed so it shouldnt!!
But cheer up.. will be moving the page shortly as soon as I regroup and the little scorpion will vanish...but straight into a
bathtub near you! - Just to add for anyone interested that there are three cruise liners in today, all lined up in tandem. Saga Pearl II which has been hanging
about for several days, I believe having a refit of some kind, has moved up to the outer reaches of the harbour wall to make way for the Saga Ruby and the Rotterdam. All old fashioned in style somehow and all coloured black and white.
None terribly big and not terribly colourful but there you have it. - And how much is Howard paying you PaulB, be careful, be very very careful, your bathtub is
nearer to the little blighter than anyone lol!
And just for the record us girls are not giving up our 'exotic pink stuff' austere times or not! If you had your way we would be bathing in carbolic soap,
yuck! - The Rotterdam may not be big but a lot of people wanting to spend the day locally in Town and the Castle in my new position as Visit Kent Cruise Greeter.
Worried
about Posh Barry though he was asking me for the nearest synagogue no worder he is rich.Howard I thought you would like to know.Barry was doing his part time meeting the common people job but his man servant was close
by. - good to see barry mixing with the masses john.
tourists love meeting british aristocracy.
- another of the cruise ships in this morning.
- rather an
ambitious production from d.o.d.s.
all the very best to them in making it a great success. - i meet that scorpian fish's big brother a few years ago, ugly
looking beast it was. just right for mels/colettes bath tub.lol - i don't know why the girls are so worried about the sea scorpion.
the resident stingray will see it
off no problem. - howard,is marina, troys girlfriend still about.lol
- Yes John, it was one of those
chappies from the 'New Colonies' who asked me that question, unable to point him in the right direction, I said why not visit Canterbury Cathedral, he was not amused.
Carruthers spoke to him about something or other, then he
actually doffed his cap and asked if he could have his a photo taken with me, strange chaps these colonials. - Barry, Margate was the answer.
- I told Barry that Paul Watkinse, see he should have asked me I know everything.
- Thank you Paul, John gave me the
info but was unsure where it was situated in Margate. - I think Dover should definitely aim for a Blue Flag if it's serious about tourism and attratcing people to the town
and beach. I agree the work on the esplanade is great, but last night at 6pm with the sun shining, the sea front was deserted! It's half term, so where is everybody? - THE UNITARY OPTION;
For some time there have been calls for a unitary council for East Kent.
I wonder what the views are of our political leaders at District/town/county levels. In Dover.
The
interesting latest saga of the 'SHARED'services with Shepway is that it looks likely that there will be little savings as Dover looks likely to have to foot the mega thousands of pounds for the outgoing chief executives
redundancy/pension etc.
It appears mr Pickles is not moving along the road of allowing Dover to go unitary, nor are out political leaders moving in that direction.
Shared services is nothing like a unitary and those rumours
need to be scotched,
It would be interesting to get an update from our leaders at county and District if they believe in a unitary, and if so how will they make it happen?
if they don't, how will they get over all these
cutbacks?
over to you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
- i think we will eventually go unitary keith, rather by evolution than
revolution though.
the shared services thing could face problems due to certain departments coming under different umbrellas in shepway and dover.
hadn;t heard that d.d.c. were footing the bill for the redundancies, i
thought it would be spread over the local authorities. - Time has come to remove the main feature on Cabaret by the Dover Operatic and Dramatc Society
but here is this extract for our comments section as the Show goes on.......
"
Cabaret succeeds in evoking powerful images of a decadent Berlin and the ways in which it bows to the rise of Nazism, which have affected
multiple generations of theatre goers. This show promises to be a night of entertainment which simply can’t be missed.
The show will take place at the New Eden Theatre, St. Edmunds School, Dover at 7:15pm from Wednesday 1st June
to Saturday 4th June 2011.
Tickets cost £9 per person and are now available for purchase either by contacting the Box Office on 07818 266154, or by calling into one of the many outlets selling them:
Ann & Pam’s Florists,
Cherrytree Avenue, Dover
Phillips and Drew, 48 High Street, Dover
Dover Visitor Information Centre
The Fox Pub, High Street, Temple Ewell
Barnardos Shop, King Steet, Deal
St Margarets at Cliffe Post
Office
" - Wow....I only hope it managed to navigate its way out into the channel.
- Yes I
second that Wow.. Marek. Have added the copy now so you can see the story above. It did manage to navigate its way out into the channel, what became of it after that we dont know. But amazing pictures and quite a story..
Speaking
of great whales..a great whale of a ship in today in the shape of the Costa Atlantica..very sleek, and a nice colourful little one called Grand Voyager. - Good
spot by John,a large sperm whale was washed up in Redcar earlier in the week. - fantastic photos, sad about the whale, there was an item on the news a week or so back about a
pod of pilot whales somewhere off of scotland and there were fears of mass strandings. - The whale was caught up on the bow of the Mexican Bay cargo ship , that had
just entered Dover Harbour , I know this as i was berthing the ship and heard the captain of the tug boat telling the pilot, on the vhs. - Always a
good idea to hit the f11 key on your keyboard when the pictures are large and that way you see them at their best.
Yes saw the stories about the whales and only the other day there was another one washed up too. Cant remember
where for the moment. It was still alive and they were trying to keep it cool and alive by spraying water on it. It was very large indeed. A sperm whale. The poor thing didnt make it though. Not sure if it was the same one referred to
there by Martin. - Good to see that DTIZ has finally got off the ground. A wheelie bin depot. Just what we always wanted, especially if they are to be used to
wheel away the rubble from Burlington House
- Ah! yes, very sad news about the whale. I saw John this morning and he was still quite shocked about it, not something
you expect to see whilst down there early morning taking photographs of the cruise ships. - i can understand john being shocked, we all love these gentle giants and like to
remember them for their great beauty, not the hollow shell that this one ended up as. - I was in two minds about sending Paul this one. Having seen it all before I
wasn't so much shocked as saddened as every creature has a right to dignity in death. Thanks to all for showing due sensitivity in your postings. - Well that really is a
great spread of pictures above, all look great from the top of the page to the bottom, the Lifeboat shots to the whale pix are all terrific... many thanks to all the guys who sent them in, all right on the pace. Thanks for all the hugely
topical help there guys...its very welcome. - paulb
isn't this a wonderful forum
so much info/pics
its
great - Many thanks Keefy. Yes we are always very happy to see excellent pictures and information coming through and we are delighted to be able to bring them to the publics
attention. Sometimes it takes us a little time juggling everything about in order to fit all the main stories in fairly...but we do our best to get there in the end. - paulb;
im away till monday in case you dont miss me lol !
yes the forum often gets the news first and other media types now rely on stories from the forum to fill there papers. so many differing people looking
in
its fab paulb - Could I ask Forum members if they share the same perspective as myself on the inducements offered by Dr Goldfield et al ,re privatisation.That the
largesse being offered is Dovers by right anyway,also if this level of commitment had been shown all along by D.H.B. then Dover would not be facing such a bleak outlook. - Mr Heron I think you are right at last the DHB is taking note of what we are saying,but is it all to late,as you know I still think that the port should not be sold off but stay a royal port within the the royal charter this
is the only way it will be safe,can still be run by the D,H,B, with more members of the public on it,after all the fighting that has taken place over the last few years I do not think the heads of the DHB can stay anyway so let them go
but without the big payoff they are hoping for. - Paul please tell me what happen to my letter I done on this page some ten mins ago Ta.
- There we are now Vic....It was on hold Vic because you didnt log in. You have to log in for it to go up LIVE. Otherwise posts get delayed until passed. Only members can post
LIVE..guys who are not members go on hold. But you have to log in first, then the site recognises you as a member and does things automatically.
Notice to all:To become a member email me on
dover7@msn.com but its only for those
who want to join in.
- splendid photos of the rescue, highlights the skills of the lifeboat crews as well as their bravery.
- Thank you Paul, I had just done a PC clean so that is why I was log out.
- Guys I will have the latest on
the Port in a couple of days so dont miss that.
In the meantime I have just heard further from RNLI's Martin Collins who tells me that the Lifeboat has had two further "shouts" in the past couple of days, one to a fishing boat
and another to a yacht, both in difficulties... this year so far the Dover Lifeboat has been called out to 22 incidents.
Looking at the pictures from the collision above, I can only say how lucky the six men were that the sea was
relatively benign...in rough conditions things might have been a whole lot worse. - Those boys on the lifeboat have certainly had a busy time, as said its lucky
all came out none the worst for wear. Just goes to show how valuble our Lifeboat is. - With so many call outs it begs the question why doesn't Dover have a a
professional Lifeboat crew working and being paid full time rather than relying on our heroic volunteers. They could work hand in glove with the volunteers. After all I believe the English Channel as it's still called is a busy old
waterway.
I believe there are some full time RNLI staff dotted around the country. - Here is the fabulously huge Eurodam leaving Dover
Harbour just a few moments ago in the blazing sunshine, to the fantastic sound of hooted greetings interchanging between the ship and the tugboat...and saying a farewell to the town. lovely stuff..its almost romantic as in the days of
those earlier cruise liners of old with the streamers etc. etc.
A great sight though, and as I say...just a few minutes ago.
The small scale of the pic doesnt do it justice. Its the largest size we can do at the moment here
amongst the comments.
Marek interesting idea there. I think the guys of course all have jobs as it stands. It is still to this day a charity.
ADDED EXTRA:
Key facts about the RNLI
The RNLI charity saves lives
at sea. Its volunteers provide a 24-hour search and rescue service around the United Kingdom and Republic of Ireland coasts. The RNLI operates over 230 lifeboat stations in the UK and Ireland and has more than 100 lifeguard units on
beaches around the UK. The RNLI is independent of Coastguard and government and depends on voluntary donations and legacies to maintain its rescue service. Since the RNLI was founded in 1824 its lifeboat crews and lifeguards have saved
over 137,000 lives. - usually it is only one paid employee at each life boat station.
as far as i know they rely entirely on donations and fund
raising.
will be interesting to know in the future if they are called uopn more with many coastguard stations closing. - Howard I added the KEY FACTS ABOUT THE
RNLI to the post below there just as you posted. Some good info there direct from the guys themselves. - I hear a dead whale has been washed up on Kingsdown beach,
wonder if it is the one John photographed? - Settling in to a quiet undisturbed sleep on the seafront last night are our camper van
friends.
All quiet..snoooozzze...purrrr
Meanwhile up on Jubilee Way a truck and a small silver car get in an unholy mess. How
the car came to be over there I just dont know. Hopefully you can see it okay, a very long distant shot in failing light. Its all happening... - With Cllr Jan
Tranter I set out in yesterday's gloomy weather to investigate Joss Bay and its famous legendary Blue Flag. And yes indeed it proudly flew over the beach there and speaking to several locals we could see how proud they were to have it.
It is an all new flag for 2011 and is only in place a matter of four of five days.
The weather was extremely rough yesterday with a gale force wind blowing that would curl the skin off a brass
monkey. It was difficult to stand upright and hold the camera steady so that I could return with a few pictures. However when the weather is like this it doesnt put anyone off at Joss Bay... as the beach is very popular with surfers
because of its high waves, and yesterday we had high waves aplenty in the gale force wind. You need to know what you are doing to venture out in this lot.. see below...
Joss Bay is a very basic place with very limited facilities. Dover has much more in the way of
facilities such as our fab Seasports Centre, our sailing, our pleasant cafes, our now new hotel and ice cream parlours, our cleaner water as highlighted by DHB recently, our cleanliness on the beach and not least our multi-million pound
new seafront...it is a positive Rolls Royce in comparison to Joss Bay.
Joss Bay has sand, has a flat level beach, has basic toilets built with old fashioned tin loos and urinals, has one shop, one shop only... which sells coffee
and ice cream, had one lifeguard yesterday on duty watching out on the surfers in the roaring surf. But ....they are proud of their Blue Flag...a real asset for them and it brings people to visit. On the negative side Joss Bay has
nothing of the seaside resort feel to it, is much overgrown with scrub and has much graffiti painted on the surrounding beach walls. None of this being very attractive.
WE should apply for a Blue Flag in
Dover.
- seems that the only thing we are short of is a life guard.
what i find intriguing is how they can afford a life guard at joss bay when there
is only one shop, i can only imagine that the surf school pay for it. - Can blue flag beaches have pebble beaches?
I ask this because the only ones I know
have all had the long stretch of sand.
A blue flag would certainly be a benefit to Dover and it is worth us trying to get. - Nice to see the pictures of Joss Bay with its
high waves on such a blustery day. I love it on such days, watching its rip roaring surf waves when one can snuggle up on the sands and reflect on life with a cuppa from its one and only
shop.....bliss. - Jan a good question that re pebbles versus sand. I printed out Rogers Post from 29 May 6.34am ( its as I write on page 2 of the comments here on the
frontpage) and took it with me yesterday for easy reference, the Blue Flag criteria contained therein makes no reference to either sand or pebble. Therefore I would assume that the type of beach is not relevent. What is relevent is that
it be clean and of course that the water be clean. - I have just done a bit of hunting and have discovered that Brighton have had a blue flag, so we could get one
if we applied.
The reason I asked was that it is relatively easy to keep a sand beach clean while pebbles 'hide' small bits of rubbish. - Unfortunately, Dr Goldfield
does remind one of the hypnotic snake from Disney's 'Robin Hood',did he not say "Trust in me".I feel a sponsorship of Dover Rugby club coming on. - I think it
was Disney's Jungle Book. - Thank you Mr Watkins,I seem to have got my Disney snakes confused,it was if I had been hypnotised by Dr Goldfield ,"Oh
Mummy". - i am baffled by the rugby club connection.
- Hearts and Minds,Mr McSweeney,hearts and
minds. - Have to say our trip to Joss Bay was interesting and as Paul has said the facilities were very limited,surfing is the attraction and there were some very
hardy surfers there yesterday in what can only be said as a howling gale.
I don't know the cost of gaining a Blue Flag but surely if we don't try how will we know. - DHB's scheme still gives the community no input into the governance and strategic management of the port, which is a sine qua non for ministerial approval of sale proposals, according to the new criteria published for
consultation on 16 May. - DHB just don't get it do they...just shuffling cash around will make them seem even more inappropriate for alignment to the consultation criteria.
- Will Mr Goldfield ever win the hearts and minds of the Dover public? too much has happened in his reign for that
probably. - PETER(DOVER)
I like your confidence that the peoples port proposal will give community involvement.
That's still to be
seen. - With much talk about Dunkirk generally at the moment, and indeed I believe Dover Castle have launched an exhibition about Dunkirk this very day, here is the latest
information just in from DFDS who are the only ferry operator sailing to the town....so if you want to see Dunkirk in the flesh so to speak and at good rates now's your chance.
First info through from DFDS so many thanks to
them....
* *
DFDS SEAWAYS LAUNCHES LATEST CROSS CHANNEL OFFERS AS FRANCE NAMED TOP HOLIDAY DESTINATION
DFDS Seaways (formerly
Norfolkline), has launched a special offer on it’s Dover-France route designed to appeal to the growing number of people choosing to holiday in France this summer. The offer comes in the wake of recent research from The Co-Operative
Travel, which showed a renewed interest in France as a top holiday destination.
Passengers can now travel across the Channel for just £19 return for a day trip for a car and up to four passengers, travelling up to 20th July.
For those who are looking to spend longer on the Continent, fares for journeys between Dover and Dunkirk start from just £25 each way for a car and up to four passengers (terms and conditions apply*).
Chris Newey, director of
passenger services for the English Channel route at DFDS Seaways, said: “It’s great to hear that more people are choosing France for their holiday, as it has so many great attractions to visit, and places to explore. We hope
that our latest offer encourages more people to revisit ferry travel as an affordable, relaxing and reliable way to travel to France and the rest of Europe.
“Modern ferry travel is not only flexible in terms of which service
you use, there are a whole host of other advantages too, such as being able to take as much luggage as you can fit into your vehicle, at no extra cost. We find that most people who use our ferries become real advocates of our service.
There is plenty of space, as well as fantastic entertainment facilities and restaurants onboard for children and adults to enjoy, making it the perfect start to any holiday.”
As the only ferry operator to sail to
Dunkirk, DFDS Seaways passengers also benefit from the convenience of arriving at a port that has little of the congestion associated with busier ports, such as Calais, despite being only 30km away. Dunkirk is also perfectly situated for
onward travel into the rest of France, Europe and beyond, with access to all the main European arterial roads.
To take advantage of the latest offers, or for more information about the DFDS Seaways Dover – France ferry route,
visit www.norfolkline.com (which is still the main website for bookings during the transition period to a new DFDS Seaways website) or telephone 0871 574 7241. Terms and conditions apply and are available on the website*.
- You should not be taken in by both the D.H.B.or the P/P the only safe way to keep the port of Dover is for it to stay a Royal Port within the Royal
Charter,any other way is a sell off. - Got to agree with Vic, the Port has developed over the last 405 years and kept pace with the demands of
it's customers while being a Trust Port, nothing has changed on that front other than the will of the current Board. If there are amendments needed in the legislation for Trust Ports then our MP should be fighting for that, the Port of
Dover should remain a National asset. - Martin - the Port of Dover will always be a national asset whoever it is owned by. The Trust Port was once a model that worked but times
have changed and it is no longer suitable for the commercial world today. It needs commercial flexibility and not to be tied to the whims of Civil Servants. It is easy to talk about changing the terms of the Trust but that is simply
out of the question a Trust Port will always be held back by the dead hand of government.
Any privatisation would be better than the present set-up but some ways of privatising are better than others. The People's Port with
proper community ownership offers the best possible arrangments that can ensure keeping a viable and successful commercial Port and be a great benefit to the town. In fact this may be be the catalyst to finally break the deadlock in
Dover's regeneration. - Thank you Martin for that,I will keep on and getting up at meetings saying so. The so call P/P could end up seeing the port go
bankrupt.
We hear now that they are to start Rail freight at night time by Tunnel this will take alot of Hgs lorrys away from the port,the P/P will mean taking out a loan of some £300+million which will have to be paid back,if the
trade falls off,the payments will still have to be made and as I have always said this could see the port go Bankrupt.
The D.H.B. at first did not want the port sold off, but they now can also see like I and many others do to
that the port of Dover trade will tail off, so they want out with a big payoff each. - Barry I do not agree with you and never will,you
deal with money each day,you must see by loan of some £3oomillion there is a big risk,even the Dover MP and the p/p Chairman told me "There is always a risk but we still think that the P/P is the best way forward."
I think the
risk is far to great to take,and it is not needed anyway as Martin and myself and many others have pointed out. - Vic - there is risk in just crossing the street. Life
is about risk but in fact, as we have been told, the City view People's Port Bonds investment grade quality, or other words low risk which ensures that a reasonable rate of interest can be secured from investors who will be insurance
companies wanting a steady income. This is nothing to be scared or worried about - many businesses borrow on far more disadvantagous terms and become a huge success. In fact all large corporations obtain success in this way at least
to some extent. - Barry a risk is a risk and when we are talking about £300+million it has to be a big one,and why take it ?it is not needed,at a time when we see banks
going down and even countys going bankrupt you are trying to tell us that the Port of Dover could not do the same,sorry mate that is just to much to take in. - that is
a cracker, very atmospheric shot. - Labour Party release......
Labour’s Team for Dover District
Following
the recent District Council elections Labour has announced its Shadow Cabinet and other key positions to oppose the Conservatives’ destructive cuts programme.
Gordon Cowan (Cllr for St Radigunds, Dover) continues as Labour Group
Leader.
Mike Eddy (Mill Hill, Deal) continues as the Deputy Labour Group Leader and holds the Shadow Cabinet portfolio for Corporate Resources and Performance.
Newly elected Pam Brivio (Tower Hamlets, Dover) takes over the
Community, Housing and Youth portfolio from Anne Smith (Buckland, Dover).
Pam Brivio says: “I should like to thank Anne for all her dedication over the last session of the Council and I look forward to building on her hard work
and enthusiasm.”
Also newly elected to the District Council for Maxton, Elms Vale and Priory ward in Dover, Sue Jones takes on the Environment, Waste and Planning portfolio.
Labour’s other Shadow Cabinet members
are:
Mick Smith (Buckland) Access and Property Management
Linda Keen (Aylesham) Skills, Training and External Relations
Ben Bano (Mill Hill) Health, Well-Being and Public Protection.
Kevin Mills
(St Radigunds) and Jim Hood (Town and Pier, Dover) continue as Chairmen of the Policy and Performance Scrutiny Committee and the Community and regeneration Scrutiny Committee respectively.
Bob Thompson (Aylesham) takes over from
Mark Furnival (who stood down at the election) as Labour’s spokesman on the Planning Committee.
Gordon Cowan says:
“Labour has increased its number of councillors and is
ready to fight to protect services across the District. Before the election the Conservatives failed to implement the cuts forced on them by their colleagues in Westminster. The Conservatives’ axe will soon fall on the most vulnerable in
our communities and Labour’s team will be doing all it can to stop the Conservatives doing the amount of damage they would like to.”
(Ends)
Picture shows Gordon Cowan Labour Leader with top forumite Keith
Sansum. - Lovely shot of the beautiful Costa Magica above.
The DFDS information below reminded me that daughter Saskia travelled to Italy via that
route just recently and both she and the family she travelled with sang their praises on their return. They were very impressed with the ship and particularly the non congestion when they arrived at Dunkirk to make their way onwards
through France, a point I notice DFDS refer to in their press release below. - Lovely picture of the Costa Magica above it looked just as splendid going out earlier in the
evening sunshine. - FLY THE FLAG FOR ARMED FORCES DAY
To mark the lead up to Armed Forces Day, the
Chairman of Dover District Council and the Town Mayor of Deal are inviting community representatives to a flag raising ceremony at the entrance to Deal Pier starting at 10.15am on Monday 20 June.
The ceremony will include
speeches from the Chairman of Dover District Council, Cllr Sue Nicholas, and the Deputy Town Mayor of Deal, Cllr Eileen Rowbotham, and a flag raising at 10.30am.
This is one of many events being held across the country to mark
the lead up to Armed Forces Day on Saturday 25 June. The day is an annual opportunity for the nation to show support for the men and women who make up the Armed Forces community.
For more information on the event, please log onto
www.armedforcesday.org.uk
Top picture shows the event last year with the then Mayors and elected repesentatives. It was held in Sandwich. This year Sue Nicholas will be doing the honours
as Sue is now Chairman of Dover District Council. Thats Sue there in picture left looking very fetching and very smart and of course sporting one of her famous hats, also in shot is former Mayor of Dover Jan Tranter. Both forumites of
course. - PAULB;
Better say something on the labour press release.
Taking them as a whole, the election result was a disaster, labour
should have done a lot better and gained more seats than it did, but i fully understand why they didn't.
Gordon will be a good passionate leader,
Mick smith im sure will do what he can
Linda Keen is a bit like vic,
very passionate, table banger
Let's hope over the next 4 years they can build and do better,
we can only hope,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, - looks great, hope to get up there some
time today.
first day of it being open to the public. - Keef the Labour machine is threading water nationally these times. It's making no progress despite us
'enjoying' a government in power whose policies seem in some disarray..one thinks of the NHS, prison reform, schools, tuitions fees etc etc..yet despite this..we see very little inroads from Labour into the Conservative lead, indeed as
the Archbishop of Canterbury said himself yesterday.
Its true he criticised the government but he also criticised Labour for being devoid of ideas.
Though to be fair, Labour did gain 4 more seats at the recent local
elections and as was obvious they did make a big push to oust the Tories from local control here in Dover District. They felt they could win. Ed Miliband himself came down as did Ministers, Healy, Denham, Marsden and so on...so a big
push. The local team worked hard too and even Gwyn Prosser former MP was back in the fray. But the overall national picture is dull for Labour at the moment and the public locally didnt bite.
Howard yes very interesting
exhibition, but be warned it is cold down there in the deep dark tunnels, so fetch out yer string vest. At the time of Dunkirk nobody at all, as was clear during the exhibition, would have been able to resist the power push of the German
war machine at the time, when it was in its ascendancy. - Paul did you not capture a picture of My Vice Chairman?He was representing me at this event .There is a
pecking order you know !! - I didnt see your Vice Chairman Sue..ermm shame to ask, but who is it??
But at these events there is a lot of movement hither and tither and
you are not always able to get all you want. Its like those guys you see on TV.. always scrabbling for pictures. We wanted to get Baroness Andrews too, Chair of English Heritage, but she slipped through our
grasp. - It's Paul Le Chevalier Paul, an ex-policeman representing Walmer.
- The Vice
Chairman of DDC is Cllr Paul Le Chevalier he represents Walmer .Its all on the DDC web site complete with the pecking order .
We attend many events I was at one last night and I have two tomorrow .Plus we have our DDC committees as
well Im off to one in a minute third this week and one this afternoon .DDC are busy .
I had a meeting with the press last week to inform them what we do - JEANE;
I'v
tried to contact you via e mail but the e mail bounces
can you e mail me ta keith
TERRY;
Yes mr chevalier is the same geezer, worked closely with him on licensing for many years, we actually were of similar minds most of
the time, you wouldn't have known we were 2 different parties.
PAULB;
On the labour party, it is beimng very sensible, slowly rebuilding it has a year or two(maybe less)before this govt crumbles, and like any other opposition
party it doesnt want to open up to quick.
on the local labour group, they did gain some seats, but with the climate as it was they should have gained a lot more
they again have 4 years to re build, although i don't have to
much faith in all the group, in fact thats quite a few that will drag the labour party down, locally rather than advance the cause. - Keith, have e mailed you.
- What a fantastic exhibition ''Operation Dynamo: Rescue from Dunkirk'' is, brilliant technology, all captured in AV presentation and explained in great detail. Definitely
worth a visit. Quite chilly down there so wrap up warmly. - Very appropriate set of pictures above,with Armed Forces Day coming up, the Exhibition gives
you a gentle reminder of what sacrifices were made during that time. - News Release from DDC:
HARBOUR REVISION ORDER UPDATE
Dover District Council is
pleased to announce that, following extensive work with Dover Harbour Board, it has reached agreement on the Harbour Revision Order and is able to withdraw its objections, which were previously submitted.
This follows the
completion of legal agreements, which will require Dover Harbour Board, or any other future operator, to bring forward early infrastructure, access arrangements, and associated matters, in advance of the construction of a second terminal
at Dover.
The Harbour Revision Order is effectively the marine equivalent of planning consent and, if approved by the Department for Transport, would enable the future construction of the second terminal.
Cllr Paul Watkins,
Leader of DDC said: "We are very pleased to have resolved our objections to the Harbour Revision Order through legal agreements with Dover Harbour Board. Subject to these matters now being accepted by the Department for Transport, which
has to decide the Harbour Revision Order, we can move forward with confidence. The Council will be able to work with Dover Harbour Board and others to enable and bring forward progress on the Waterfront and Dover Town Centre, as part of
the transformational opportunities set out in the Adopted Local Development Framework.
This will capture further benefits from the High Speed Train Service, while aligning with the proposals at Calais, as a range of projects continues
to move forward for the future.”
- Bit of a formality but DDC has to cover its back in the event that T2 ever sees the light of day. As T2 is now generally regarded as a dead duck, presumably that also puts paid to the transformational opportunities.
- Mayor Philpott has certainly hit the ground running, she has been at a number of high profile events already and very
successfully too. This press release below is just in and shows her at the recent Calais Festival doing her bit for the entente cordial...the burning question though is this..did she manage to catch that rugby ball?
DOVER – CALAIS FESTIVAL OF SPORT
The Mayor of Dover, Councillor Mrs. Ronnie Philpott, sailed to Calais last Saturday along with over 170 sportsmen and women for the annual Dover- Calais Festival
of Sport. Since 1973 the twinned towns have been staging this celebration of fair play and keen competition across a wide range of sports and games.
This year, participants in 9 activities, ranging from Football to Fencing, from
Deep Sea Angling to Bridge, enjoyed friendly matches in glorious sunshine with some excellent French hospitality and food.
Despite gallant efforts by the Dovorians, Calais won the Victor Ludorum trophy by 11-7. All participants
went home with commemorative medals and exchanged trophies.
Next year, the festival will take place in Dover and will be bigger and better than ever. If you have a team interested in taking part then please contact Dover Town
Council on 01304 242625.
- I have also been busy and yesterday i was at the opening of The Aylesham Welfare Leisure Centre My moment of glory kicking a
football to officially open the facilities.
I think my kicking days are over not a very good pass to a little lad who looked on in amazement .
After that event I went to the Lord Lieutenants Farewell Garden Party .
I did
not attend the Calais Event as I get sea sick and my Vice Chairman was on holiday.
- Statement from Dover Harbour Board in response to
Dover District's Council's press release below.
Mike Krayenbrink, Director of Port Development said;
"We are delighted that Dover District Council has removed its holding objections to our
Terminal 2 proposal. We have worked hard with Dover District Council and others in addressing their issues and concerns in order that we can present a scheme that is fully supported. Significantly, this allows us to move forward with
the council in progressing the waterfront development which is a key regeneration project for Dover."
The DDC Press Release...was posted earlier (see down page) by Roger Walkden.....but
here we are again now.....
* *
DDC RELEASE: HARBOUR REVISION ORDER UPDATE
Dover District Council is pleased to announce that, following extensive work with Dover
Harbour Board, it has reached agreement on the Harbour Revision Order and is able to withdraw its objections, which were previously submitted.
This follows the completion of legal agreements, which will require Dover Harbour
Board, or any other future operator, to bring forward early infrastructure, access arrangements, and associated matters, in advance of the construction of a second terminal at Dover.
The Harbour Revision Order is effectively the
marine equivalent of planning consent and, if approved by the Department for Transport, would enable the future construction of the second terminal.
Cllr Paul Watkins, Leader of DDC said:
"We are very pleased to have resolved our objections to the Harbour Revision Order through legal agreements with Dover Harbour Board. Subject to these matters now being accepted by the Department for Transport,
which has to decide the Harbour Revision Order, we can move forward with confidence. The Council will be able to work with Dover Harbour Board and others to enable and bring forward progress on the Waterfront and Dover Town Centre, as
part of the transformational opportunities set out in the Adopted Local Development Framework.
This will capture further benefits from the High Speed Train Service, while aligning with the proposals at Calais, as a range of
projects continues to move forward for the future.”
- ends -
- Well.Well.Well
A letter submitted to a national paper 21st May
2011.
The Government actions on Green issues are worrying.They tried to sell our trees to Logging Companies!!
Mr Cameron latest plan is obtain Gas trapped in hard rock shall deposits in UK by` Fracking`the rock.
Fracking
requires blasting the rock with one to seven million gallons of water mixed with 596 chemicals to break up the rock into thousands of pieces to release the gas.Problem is only half of the water comes back up thereby contaminating the
water below ground the air and climate.The waste water contains 29 chemicals known to cause cancer including methanol,benezine,sulphuric acid and lead. The process releases so much methane ( most potent warming gas ) that it causes 48
per cent more damage to the climate than uncleaned coal.A process exists to clean coal.
The government must`U` turn again and think clean coal instead of causing a Fracking mess.
Coal will have to be used one day!!
NB.Thanks to Mrs.Thatcher East Kent has millions of tonnes of Coal insitu
Mr Cameron`s plan to drill for natural shall gas in the UK is on an environmental disaster course and has hit another set back.Drilling has been
suspended near Blackpool due to two earthquakes of 1.5 and 2.5 magnitude in the same area and at the same depth of the drilling operations. Similar drilling in France and America have had same results and with the fear of water tables
being contaminated have been banned.
Environmentalists are hoping Mr.Cameron will make another `U` turn adding to the increasing list of other ill conceived policy decisions.
NB. A planning application has been submitted to
KCC to drill a test bore hole on a potential Shall Gas deposit in Woognesborough a site near Sandwich. - DOVER HARBOUR BOARD;
I think the gloves are off with them
now, and they won't give up there empire that easily, with this lots of people not convinced peoples port is the way forward either, many unanswered questions.
So all to play by both camps. then theres
vic,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
REG;
I have said in other postings that we are seeing the beginning of the end of this cobbled together govt.
One that says it has time for the public and its leader, they operates
in the other way.
one that says it believes in democracy, then actually does the opposite.
Even the tory speaker in the house of commons showed his disgust at the prime minister and dep p..m. going first to a public meeting to
announce changes to the N.H.S. before it has even been agreed by the house.
lib dems falling apart since there moment of glory, and seeing so much in fighting(see there own local newsletters) that they are sadly a psarty of the
past, and it will take a lot to regain the credibility they built prior to the general election.
and a tory led govt that talks tough, but in reality are seen as a push over.
just look at them on there views on immigration,
crime, wetc etc the list is endless.
People are now waking up and smelling the coffee,
the end of this cobbled together govt is
near,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
- The fight to keep our port royal is not over yet.
- VIC;
You sound like some one about to be sunk in the middle of the ocean - Dover and Deal
commuter rail fare rises adding to cost of living crisis – Say Labour
Just in : During a visit to the South East today, Labour’s Shadow Transport Secretary will call on the
Government to rethink the inflation-busting rail fare increases planned for each of the next three years. Research by the Campaign for Better Transport shows how fare rises are now outstripping wage rises adding to the cost of living
crisis facing families.
People commuting on the Hi-Speed from Dover will see the cost of their season ticket rise by £1,486 between 2011 and 2015. By next year, the ticket will be over 27% of the average salary. Commuters from
Deal and Walmer will be looking at an extra £1,241 over the same period representing nearly 23% of the average salary.
Speaking during a visit to Chatham, Shadow Transport Secretary Maria Eagle MP will say:
“The Tory led government is totally out of touch with the cost of living crisis facing Dover and Deal commuters, and fails to understand how these eye-watering rail fare rises will add to the burden on families. For
many, the cost of getting to work is now the biggest single item in the monthly budget, bigger even than rent or mortgage payments.
“These fare rises are the direct consequence of the decision to cut too far and too fast, meaning
commuters are having to pay more to plug the hole in the transport budget. With train fares set to rise four times faster than wages in the next year, Ministers should think again and give commuters a break.”
The Tory-led
government has changed the funding formula for regulated rail fares from January 2012, allowing train companies to increase fares by 3% above inflation every year until 2015. As a result, commuters face average increases of 8 per cent a
year, with many facing ticket price increases of 13 per cent. By 2015, rail fares will be on average 28.4 per cent higher.
At the same time, wages are predicted to be just 15 per cent higher by 2015 forcing families to spend a
larger proportion of their income on the costs of getting to work. Next year alone, commuters will see their train fares rise four times faster than wages with average earnings for 2012 predicted to rise by just 2.2 per cent. The figures
have been calculated by the Campaign for Better Transport using the latest wage and inflation forecasts from The Office for Budget Responsibility.
Leader of the Labour Group on Dover District Council, Gordon Cowan, says:
“People in Dover and Deal have been looking to the Hi-Speed link to London as a way of increasing their access to a wider range of jobs in London. These massive price rises are a direct attack on hard-working families.
Other people have looked to the Hi-Speed as a means of bringing in businesses to the area, and these massive price rises are a direct attack on the revival of our local economy. These price hikes are a double whammy for our district.”
Picture shows Gwyn Prosser back in 2009 on the first high speed train out of Dover. Gwyn was our MP at the time. - LABOUR NOW FIGHTING
BACK
Paulb;
nice to see the press releases, labor at last starting to challenge the tories.
Of course what they didnt say is, what would labour do for the commuters if they were in
govt. - Keef I think the clue what Labour might do will be in the section that shows the current Conservative led government are allowing rises of 3% above inflation until
2015. According to the calculations shown fares by then will be almost 30% higher..thats pretty staggering.
So taking that yearly above inflation 3% out of the equasion would help commuters
bigtime. - PAULB;
I understand where your coming from, but i do like to be fair in my postings.
I'v never agreed a privatised railway is the best
option(nor is a nationalisaed rail) and labour prior to there 13 years in govt were going around saying they would get rid of the privatised rail when they got back into govt.
I recall travelling to westminster hall to a packed
audience, when prescott made all these famous speeches.
As soon as they got in like all govts they made excuses why they couldnt do it.
I gave up writing/contact prescott after his sell out.
So if these costs are
required to run a railway, and any part of these increases are taken away, who instead will foot the bill? - the rail commuters are getting well and truly stuffed here, most
have no choice but to use the train.
when they finally get to work they then pay more tax to subsidise the train operating company.
the 3% is inteneded for use in improving services, it remains to be seen whether that
actually happens. - HOWARD;
I fully understand, working on B.R. for 25 years i have a great deal of knowledge, my question was what would a labour govt do
differently - There was much talk one time how the high speed train would change all our lives for the better. It has in some ways..family often take quick flying visits to
London on it for example...but it was supposed to bring new wealth to the town, a revival in the housing market, new jobs even.. and so on so forth, with all these London commuters and businesses flooding in. That hasnt happened and wont
happen because the fares just nullify any financial gains an individual might make by setting up home here, or setting up a business here. You are at the mercy of commercial train companies as we see.
The odd trip is fine and it
works very well like that, but daily commuting would be a huge burden on the pocket. - paulb;
On that you are correct, share holders thought of first,
then customers - Depends on your job Paul .
- they would need to be in a good job susan.
i logged in and
asked a simple qestion about the cost of an annual season ticket from dover priory to st pancras.
was given a selection of prices from £.4376.00 to upwards of £.5000.00
personally i blame john goodwin for the
confusion. - Another reason why Dover hasn't taken off as somewhere for commuters to live, is housing and housing that is close (or at least fairly close) to the
station.
Folkestone Road could be a winner here, but sadly the Landlords who own property around here just see it as an area for cheap and plentiful benefits income, so house all sorts of people.
Walking up and down the
road you can see many beautiful old Victorian houses, that have been converted into rabbit-hutches for HMOs and similar.
We do have many good people living here, don't get me wrong, but the balance is changing and we need to keep
that balance, or the good people we need, will leave.
Roger - ROGER;
I realy do share most of your view, and in my short time in th council i did try to
make the planning dept aware that they were allowing the folkestone road to go the way it has by accepting applications one by one, instead of looking at the bigger picture, on how this would affect the folkestone road for years to
come.
I have to be honest there are parts of the Folkestone road i wouldn't want to live.
and it's sad to have to witness it walking up/down at least twice a day. - Port Sponsor Dover Rugby Football Club
Dover Harbour Board (DHB) and Dover Rugby Football Club (DRFC) have announced a major new partnership designed
to support the development of grass roots rugby in Dover. Both organisations are united by a common purpose which is to see the young people of Dover develop the life skills that a game such as rugby can bring and therefore foster
confidence and success in the years ahead.
They are also united in wanting to nurture the talent of the young people of Dover by working with children throughout their early lives in providing the support and encouragement that
will help them to achieve their goals in the sport.
Supporting the full 13 DRFC mini and youth teams (as well as a new under 16s girls side) totalling over 300 signed on players, DHB hopes to work with DRFC in helping them and the
wider sporting community achieve a step change in the development of rugby in Dover.
Tim Waggott, Director of Finance and Commercial for DHB said: “both organisations have a vision for the future which is to inspire our young
people and provide new opportunities for them. Our support for DRFC is based on shared community values and the desire to foster a brighter future for the people of Dover. Our support for grass roots community rugby at DRFC is a
fantastic way of doing just that.”
DRFC recognises that grass roots rugby is the key to even greater success and therefore having the major support of DHB throughout the youth program will create the platform that is
needed.
Richard Catt, Chairman of DRFC said: “we are delighted to welcome DHB as the major supporter for grass roots rugby in Dover. We have achieved a great deal through our youth program but the support of DHB within our
community will enable us to really move forward in developing the club and cementing our RFU Whole Club Seal of Approval.”
DHB is also supporting several community rugby events provided by DRFC in order that its engagement with
the young people of Dover district and their families in this initiative is comprehensive.
Mr Catt added, “having the support of a major business such as DHB in this rugby world cup year will help us to reach out to the community
in showcasing just what can be achieved from working hard at grass roots level.”
Picture shows DRFC Mini Rugby Coach and First Team Manager Mark Finnis, Club Chairman Richard Catt and Tim Waggott, Director of
Finance and Commercial with Richard Christian, Corporate Communications Manager from Dover Harbour Board.
- Good news for the Rugby club and the Town, the more young people that get
involved in sport the better. - many people are sceptical of this sudden involvement in the local community martin.
- I wrote to DHB about sponsoring Dover Business Support - and that would have been a lot less money and been of greater benefit to Dover and the businesses here; I didn't
even get the courtesy of a reply.
Roger - The latest Neighbourhood Forum for Dover Town at St Mary's Parish Hall.
There were representatives present from Kent County Council, Dover District Council, Kent Police, The Community Safety Partnership, Eastern & Coastal Kent Primary Care Trust, Kent Highway Services and Kent Fire and Rescue....but
the problem was...no members of the public showed up. Perhaps four or five. A terrific turnout of officialdom but very few to hear what they had to say.
This is a great pity in a way because all the representatives from all the
services were there but nobody came to hear them. As one woman outside the hall said to Labour Leader Gordon Cowan later...
"its a talking shop..you're all in there talking to each other".
Gordon took the time to
listen.
Also too an excellent turnout of councillors but ...perhaps there is something in what the woman said. The format needs to be changed, the table to table format is exhausted and exhausting.
But on the meeting itself
there were lots of things to hear in every area from Health to Volunteering, from Waste Disposal to Recycling. Most notably though, some interesting news from the police. There are lots of changes coming here, at this stage there is no
talk of cuts. But the big news from Sergeant Phil Morley was that our community police numbers will go up from 5 to 38. YES you read that right...5 to 38. Quite a leap. The new chief Constable is getting officers out of patrol cars and
into the community.
The not so good news is that patrol cars will now be centralised in an East Kent scenario and will have to respond to emergencies from further afield..Margate and Folkestone and Canterbury were
mentioned.
Picture shows the Police and Fire Services talking about the latest news, with Sgt Phil Morley in the centre.
See also the Neighbourhood Forum thread in our Forum section.
- good news about the extra police, the article does not say what areas they will cover however.
- I echo what you say about the public Paul and that woman you spoke of, I have never been spoken to in such a rude manner (O.K. you could say I should get around more !).
I'm not sure what her beef is, I'm always happy
to listen to people and their problems, but her comments were totally unfounded and unwarranted.
I'm not sure that the table to table set up is tired, I've been to lots of Neighbourhood Forums before and never witnessed that
type, so for Jean and me, it worked quite well.
It certainly needs a better way to get the message across that they are worthwhile attending - very worthwhile.
Roger - Quite rightly Howard, no doubt this would not have happened without the quest to win the hearts and minds of the people of Dover, but the Rugby club
and young people of Dover are winners however the money came. - Paul you can tell everyone what that woman said about me,I could do with the praise!
lol - Come come now John are you fishing for compliments.
- Ah yes indeed John HG the 'lady of the lane' did
say very good things about you when you came onto the scene. She wasnt too keen on other councillors to put it mildly but she heralded you as something special, a man of the people...ah but... rumour has it that you do have a way with
the girls!lol!
Gordon Cowan sat down beside her on the community wall and did try with good humour to listen to some of her grumblings...Im sorry now I didnt get a picture of that but it had been a long day. Regrets..Ive had a
few... - Here is the ultra magical Costa Magica arriving in the harbour just a few short minutes ago. Conditions gloomy damp and
blustery but the ship still cuts a magnificent dash. The small picture doesnt do it justice.
The gigantic black and white Eurodam was in a couple of days ago, we have shown pictures of it before and we believe they had a viral
outbreak on board and a massive clean up was ordered before they could take new passengers. Big delays before boarding. I would be guessing here but I imagine this has something to do with landlubbers taking cruises on rough seas this
time of the year, with the resulting seasickness spreading the viruses.
No farmers can complain following the downpour we had last night. The heavens opened and water poured
earthwards. Crops will be buoyant and beautiful today surely and reaching for the sky. Here is a pic of Dover Seafront in the torrent. Note how the harbour floodlights take on a tent like ghostly air..it's almost spooky. This picture
printed large would show how spooky. At the moment many of our functions are not working so cant do large...but its all in hand...sez he touching wood!
The hotel was doing great business. Carpark
full. - Love the shot of the seafront...it looks like Long Beach in California. All we need know is a dry dock to moor some retired famous grand old liner that
could act as a tourist attraction ,bar, restaurant and hotel. That would really get Dover buzzing. - i wonder why the lady said nice things about john???
makes one
think, anyway great shot of the docks all lit up. - Great picture of the seafront in the rain.
Howard we ladies are always nice to John LOL!!!
Marek thats
an interesting idea you have there. - Port of Dover Police take on London to Brighton Bike Ride
Three Port of Dover
Police Officers will be taking on the challenge that is the 54 mile London to Brighton bike ride this Sunday.
The team, ‘POD POL PEDALLERS’, will be pushing their bodies to the limit mentally and physically in order to raise money
for the British Heart Foundation. Despite already being keen bikers they have not taken the challenge lightly and have spent many hours pedalling around the Kent countryside in preparation.
PC Helen Tomkin said;
“This
is going to be a tough challenge, the team is not looking forward to the infamous Ditchling Beacon Hill, despite all the hours of practice under our belts – let’s hope the wind is behind us! But it’s all for a good cause and that will
spur us on. We’re really pleased to have had support and encouragement from Dover Harbour Board who have kindly provided the cycling shirts as well as fantastic support from individuals in the Port of Dover community who’ve sponsored us
personally. The British Heart Foundation is 50 years old this year which makes it extra special for us to be taking part and raising money in one of their most iconic charity events."
Pictures show from left PC Andy
Atkinson, PC Helen Tomkin and PC Ben Canneaux. Fourth team member Shaun Lockwood is not shown. If you wish to support the team’s challenge and donate to the British Heart Foundation then please visit their website at www.justgiving.com
and type in the team name into the ‘friends name’ box.
- good luck to andy, helen, ben and shaun, seems a daunting prospect.
let's hope the
weather helps them, not too hot and not too windy. - Good Luck team 'POD POL PEDALLERS' Andy, Helen, Ben & Shaun hope the weather is in your favour.
Will we see
you pedalling around the port now! - Yes well done,I have done this ride 3 times myself And never got to the top of Beacon hill once over two miles long, but when you get
to the top nice ride into Brighton if the weather is kind to you,I hope to do it again next year.I hope you get alot of funding in. - Just a reminder for tomorrow....Many thanks to DDC for the info.
* *
FLY THE
FLAG FOR ARMED FORCES DAY
To mark the lead up to Armed Forces Day, the Chairman of Dover District Council and the Town Mayor of Deal are inviting community representatives to a flag raising ceremony at the
entrance to Deal Pier starting at 10.15am on Monday 20 June.
The ceremony will include speeches from the Chairman of Dover District Council, Cllr Sue Nicholas, and the Deputy Town Mayor of Deal, Cllr Eileen Rowbotham, and a flag
raising at 10.30am.
This is one of many events being held across the country to mark the lead up to Armed Forces Day on Saturday 25 June. The day is an annual opportunity for the nation to show support for the men and women who
make up the Armed Forces community.
- Methinks an umbrella will be the order of the day Paul!
- Indeed Terry...it's a wet one.
The miserable summer continues on, wet and cold. Hard to believe its june. I saw a report the other week which said that scientists are now keen to
drop the 'global warming' slogan and adopt the diiferent more apt one called 'climate change'. Even they dont see it getting any warmer now. Increased winter snows and lousy summers.
Pity about the lousy summers though..on
radio 4 this morning a report said 18 million families here in the UK can not afford a holiday this year and have scrapped plans to have one. Sadly if they are planning to grab a few days here at home the weather prospects dont seem to
hold out much hope for a few balmy days in Llandudno. - Reminds me of the old joke.
First prize - A week in Llandudno.
Second prize - Two weeks in
Llandudno! - Llandudno is a very nice place we have been there a few times last time we went by a long boat on the Llandudno Canel.
- We used to go touring round North Wales, being based in Landudno - always enjoyable; then we'd travel up to the Lake District for a few days, then across to Yorkshire. Great
holidays, must do it again sometime.
Roger - It is good to be back with a fully functioning website, we have transferred lock stock and barrel to a new server but
prior to doing so we did hit a few problems, for example we lost our picture uploading facility there for a while and of course eventually we went off the air. More on this in the forum section. But we are delighted to be back at the top
of the page with two new pictures of the dynamic ladies of Dover taken yesterday. As you can see above we have Cllr Sue Nicholas Chairman of DDC and the Mayor of Dover Cllr Ronnie Philpott at the Flag Raising ceremony in Deal
yesterday. - Lovely photos of the ladies.
- good photos of our dignitaries there, top
notch hat too.
there were plenty of armed forces events in the south east, our local one was not covered by meridian or b.b.c. south east though.
bearing in mind the terrorist atrocity against the royal marines band i would
have thought deal would have been appropriate. - Howard a short clip on ITV It showed the flag being raised.Just the Two chaps from Deal Town Council.Nice shot of the
sea in the backround .
Glad you liked the hat . - Do we have a thread about our armed forces day this weekend in Pencester Gardens
- Information coming up next Alan..watch for that. bear with me for the moment...
- i thought it was
"hellfire corner" weekend this saturday and sunday coming?
there seems a confusion between that and "armed forces day". - Yes it is a bit confusing...But
will have info on Hellfire Corner later today which is on this coming weekend the 25th and 26th of June. Armed Forces day is also on the 26th of June so the event in Pencester is sort of doubling up as I understand it.
There is
also a march for veterans in Deal I believe from Deal Castle to the Pier also on 25th June. I dont know about timings as Ive just heard it through word of mouth. havent had anything official through on that
one.
- The Hellfire Corner Weekend has evolved.
There is no real confusion, it is now an Armed Forces Day event covering the whole weekend, not just
the one day.
It is no longer a 40's weekend though, because of Dover's unique history we are keeping a 1940's theme to much of the bandstand events though not all.
Because of the AFD nature of the weekend I and other
committee members will not be in uniform this year as we do not think it appropriate. Those who are performing or providing displays or are in the military and the cadets will of course be in uniform but not necessarily 1940
's.
I would have thought that would have in some small way involved those of us organising the only official AFD event in Dover District to the run-up flag raising. I would not have been able to go but I am sure a
representative of the committee could have gone to support it and promote the event. A lack of joined up thinking perhaps.
I should point out that we did have a bit of a catch 22 situation with this year. We were desperately in
need of the MoD grant and last year we missed out because they moved the goalposts and our date fell outside the window. We decided to play safe and hold our event on AFD weekend itself because we need the dosh. The downside of that is
that many of our usual attendees, traders and exhibitors are committed to other events.
That said we have been able to get some great new acts for the bandstand and new exhibitions and have been boosted by some brilliant people
joining the team the full impact of which will not be apparent until next year as it was a bit late for this year...... I will say no more than that for now. - By the
way PaulB - you said 24th and 25th June, its the 25th and 26th June...... the Saturday and Sunday. - Oh dear BarryW...so I did re dates. Will change that now. Here is
the press release with more detail..
25th and 26th JUNE 2011
FRONTLINE DOVER : EVENT UPDATE
We are proud to announce the full line-up for our
Armed Forces Day weekend to honour the service of our Armed Forces personnel and allies.
The event will be opened at 10am by the Town Mayor of Dover and proceeding will be kicked off with the Band of the Princess of Wales Royal
Regiment at 10.15 for one hour.
They will be followed by The Swingtime Sweethearts.
Other acts over the weekend will be:
Louise Orfila performing with St
Edmunds School
The Clover Sisters
Dickie Lines
Memphis Belle
‘Max Miller’
The Saggy Bottom Dancers
‘Bud Flanigan’
The Polka Dot Dolls
Adam Hofman
There will be some new
displays and exhibitions not seen before at our event and Armed Forces Charities will also be present.
Charlie Elphick MP seen left will be presenting Veteran Badges. Veterans are invited to attend on Saturday to be presented
with the badges and be recognised for what they have done for all of us. Evidence of service is needed such as discharge books and i.d. to ensure badges are awarded only to those who qualify.
We want to express our gratitude to
our sponsors and backers including:
The Ministry of Defence
County Councillor Nigel Collor
County Councillor Gordon Cowan
Dover Town Council
Dover District Council
Regency Independent Financial Advisers
Blakes of
Castle Street
Lucilles of Canterbury
- Can you now add some way of thanking Sea France P&O ferries and DFDS Ferries and Perry's of Dover for there
generous gifts for the prize draw of three Day trips to France for a car and 4 people will tell you what Perry's have given tomorrow. - Thank you Alan, that's great,
just a bit late for the press release. I have prepared appropriate posters ready for the weekend recognising these. Thanks for beating me in giving them a mention. - A small gathering at deal pier yesterday for Armed forces Day, two very nice pictures above of our ladies in chains.
- jan
would you like to rephrase
your statement bearing in mind the forum is family oriented? - It is good to have a week of activity recognising the efforts of the
Armed Forces...culminating in the event Frontline Dover here in Pencester this coming weekend and of course there are celebrations throughout the country.
This is another picture left from the ceremony in Deal on monday which
shows some of the small gathering watching the Flag being raised in the chilly wind to the sound of a lonely trumpet.
Lol!! Howard and Jan...any talk of ladies in chains has to be delicately put.
It is also good to see the big
local companies stepping forward more with some sponsorship these days for the local community...DFDS, Seafrance, P&O and indeed DHB too...long may it continue. - Really Paul, it was a bugle!
- lol! Terry you got me there..I had to hazard a guess!
While writing the post I was faced with the dilemma ...was it a
bugle or trumpet, bugle or trumpet...I opted for trumpet. I clearly wouldnt make a gambler!
Was good to see you the other day, you did a sterling job as ever. - A bugle has no keys and the sounds are made by just using you own wind and lips a Trumpet has it own push down keys on top which helps the the player to pitch his or her notes.A horn is the same no keys you pitch a note with
your lips. - Were is our council getting all this money from,Just had house painted Now we have been told we are to have a new service will be introduced across the
district from September 2011 5 yes 5 new waste bins one for food one for paper a new wheelie Bin and so on these houses don't have space to swing a cat and we were never asked if we wanted this new service.So that means they will cut
jobs because you only need two men to put these bins on the lorries instead of the 6 men we have now.And we will be doing the recycling for the council while they will be getting the money from it all. Spend some money on the town and
stop wasting peoples time with your crack pot idiots working at the council. The Bins Are Food Bin And caddy Recycling Bin Recycling Box Garden Waste And Rubbish Bin. - I should have apologised to Cllr Eileen Rowbotham on Monday. I did take her by surprise somewhat by bringing her on early. Both the speeches by Father Duncan and Sue Nicholas were shorter than expected and we had a three
minute gap to fill before the flag raising at 10.30 so Eileen did her bit before the flag and not after. Still, it ended well with the flag going up on time accompanied by Bryan Walker on bugle! - And here's the lady herself Terry...Deputy Mayor of Deal Cllr Eileen Rowbotham making her speech just ahead of the Flag raising.
Many thanks to
Vic there for the info re Bugle and Trumpet. - I think they should have got Sue a nice hard hat with a bow on it for the occasion!
- I may not be here for a while as I had the dreaded phone call this morning to say my sister had past away in the night so I will be Going to Birmingham next week but will not let
anyone down with Armed Forces Weekend. - Sue, thats what my Dad called me a little sod
- sorry to hear
that alan, many condolences. - Gosh Im also sorry to hear that too Alan. My condolences to you.
Well done re Armed Forces
Weekend. - alan,sorry to hear about your sister,give us a tinkle later.
- Alan very sorry to hear the
sad news about your sister.
Sue doing a good job there by the looks of it, very smart all in blue.
- Jan makes a change from black .It was a good
event .Time for a few laughs - women having to wait an extra year for there pensions,thats nothing compared to having to wait an extra 18 months for a bus pass.thats if they
are still around then. - Dont forget the...
Frontline Dover/Hellfire Corner
weekend in Pencester
here in Dover. The event is now inextricably linked with the nationwide Armed Forces Day celebration. Mayor will open proceedings at 10am.
A great line up of acts are taking part in the 2-day event which is run by our very own
forumite and blogger Barry Williams...if you scroll down the page to the previous posting you can see them listed there......the saggy bottom dancers sound intriguing! Cant wait!
GENERAL NOTE: We now have a brand
new facility as of today which allows us to lock press releases and information at the top of the frontpage...so any posts will go below the press release. This prevents major items sliding down the page too soon and should make the page
work better. Any comments made will slot in directly below the main item immediately above it...and can be in direct relation to the topic or not as the case may be. This should make it all hang together better. We are using it on this
item for the first time.
Pictures are bigger toooooo.. here goes..
Testing one..two..three... - May I just say thank you to all for
your kind words over my sisters death so many kind harts,thank you. - Don't forget why these (pension) changes have to be made.
It's all very well being in denial
as to the cause of our present financial state, but it IS because Labour screwed up; it was not just a banking crisis, which they helped worsen, but every financial decision they made, was a bad one.
Every decision and action -
good or bad, has a consequence and we are now suffering the consequences of all their bad decisions.
Roger
- roger,you and barryw bang on about labour
being the cause of presnt day problems,what about the torys mismanagement of the uk's finances. - My feeling was that the Labour spending was good. They gave us a lot of
services we all treasured, we all needed. Now those services are being taken away...cuts everywhere....and nobody likes it.
The problem wasnt in the spending, the problem was having the finanacial rug pulled from under all our
feet, including Labours feet, and they were left up the stream without a paddle. All money is essentially borrowed so when finance dried up from a collapsing international banking sector there was nowhere to go...and no money left.. as
Liam Byrne put it.
We saw this in Ireland too..everything going along swimmingly until the supply of cash dried up and international financing dried up. Housing estates were abandoned unfinished, tall city building left as shells,
all projects of all kinds left to whither...the tumbleweeds blew gently through the abandoned wreckage of dreamed of projects.
They spent too much too, but they thought they had a steady source of borrowed revenue which would
continue forever.
- Thats the way I see it PaulB.The government over the last year have plugged away,ad nauseam,telling us the problem is the inheritance from
Labour.When will they agree/understand the Bankers/financiers had a major say in state of Britains and the Worlds predicament? - reg,this condem goverment will
never admit to it. - I can't believe you guys, everyone knows they spent much more than they had coming in; in good years they spent even more.
I know you're a leftie
Paul and others of course, but to deny what I have said, is similar to saying the holocaust didn't exist, or today isn't Sunday.
When gold was at its lowest value, Brown sold vast amounts of it - again, everyone knows, even
school kids, that you'd sell it (if you have to sell it) when its value is high - and only then.
They help cause the banking crisis by encouraging the banks to take more risks and took away/changed, the regulations that stopped
them being sensible about borrowing.
Either very short memories you people have, or total denial.
Roger - They are in denial Roger.
It is some
kind of mental block that prevents otherwise intelligent people from realising the financial facts of life.
This fig leaf blaming the bankers has worn so thin nobody outside the few who are desperate to find some kind of excuse
for Labour believes it any more. - well well well another two in denial.goverment over spending is rife evan the conservative party do it,has the selling of famly
silver by maggie been forgotton and as for the greedy banks wanting a quick profit then getting caught with there trousers down by there ankles.short memories you two have. - Here we go again with the petty point scoring bickering and I don't care who started it.
Such a shame with the lovely happy pictures above. - couldn't agree
more, great pictures of a great event.
the yah boo politics should take a back seat for the weekend. - howard/jan your right but an answer/reply was
needed.
yes there is some good pictures with some forum members showing there faces on a good day.
boo hoo to roger and barryw. - Hope the heatwave we're
experiecing over here in Jersey hits Dover today so as to attract more visitors. Looks like a super weekend. Well done BarryW & co.
Broadly speaking and I repeat the
word broadly.
Labour care about workers and the less fortunate.
The middle ground Libs have completely missed their opportunity and will be lucky to survive.
Tories care about business and the individual.
I do not see anything wrong with that, in fact, that is how it should be.
Yes, Labour made mistakes with over spending whilst failing to see the financial crisis heading their way and with not dealing with the greedy Bankers
and MP’s.
The Tories, knowing they were not elected with a majority, seized the opportunity to make massive cuts, look after their own and blame it on everyone else.
The Libs have left a void.
Business’s need finance
to survive and make a profit to create employment but they also need employees to help those business’s to succeed, who in turn need to earn a decent living to be able to survive and keep the economy flowing. We all have a part to play
and it can be done.
Bring in some common sense, cut out the greed and start working together.
After all, we are adults, aren’t we?
- Well done barryw and your
team for a fantastic weekend
I'm realy busy at the mo, but have to say on my visit the event was going well, fantastic crowds,
well done to you all
- Congratulations to everyone involved, it looked like a fantastic event.
- Had just got back from sunny Spain in the early hours and went frolicking in the
park with some familiar faces, Forumites Aplenty! Had a lovely time and finished off with a great lunch at Blakes, Peter and Kathryn sure know how to put on a tasty Irish Salmon spread,
Mmmmm. - Disappointed not to get there myself, sounds and looks (great pictures) like everyone enjoyed it. Well done to organizers, not an easy feat,
congratulations.
- Good post there Gary - I agree with most of it.
Not sure that Labour care about the needy though - they may have done many years ago, but not
now, they seem to want to make more and more people dependant on the State - giving a hand-out, instead of a hand-up - to a better life.
Roger - roger;
you do
yourself no justice with your continued jibes on totally incorrect info on the labour party.
you will find labour is not much different to the tories on benefit cheats, and welfare reform.
maybe some would say neither party
has the balls to take this issue on. - Just had this press release through from DDC. Possibility of more promising news on Pfizer..read on dear friends read
on...
PFIZER UPDATE
Dover District Council is welcoming major news that a key economic partnership for Kent, Essex and East Sussex has selected the Pfizer site at Sandwich as its first choice for Enterprise
Zone status for the future.
Members of the Kent, Essex and East Sussex Local Enterprise Partnership (LEP) met last week to consider priorities for bids for Enterprise Zone status. The Government has already awarded the important
status to 11 areas, and has invited bids for a further 10 sites, to be submitted by 30 June. The LEP selected the Pfizer site as its first choice for Enterprise Zone status, which if given the go ahead by Government would bring a range
of benefits for businesses at the location.
This also follows an important announcement from Pfizer last week that it will retain some of its pharmaceutical sciences operation at Sandwich,
preserving around 350 jobs. Pfizer has said that it will continue a phased exit of the rest of the site by the end of 2012, and will review its retained operation within a few years, as part of its business planning.
Cllr Paul
Watkins, Leader of Dover District Council, said: “These are important developments for the area. The granting of Enterprise Zone status would bring a major boost to businesses looking to locate in the area, and the
announcement that around 350 jobs are being retained means that the site is being kept open in a way that maintains a presence and helps to attract further opportunities to the location. This is set to provide a range of excellent
opportunities to local businesses and to Pfizer staff, and to open the doors to a wide range of economic benefits for the future.”
- ends -
- looks like a bit of welcome news for the area, just a matter of the government giving it the o.k.
- Welcoming news indeed, pressure needs to be sustained to
keep the momentum growing.
PaulW.
Is this the only site in Kent? Also, nothing has been said about Betteshanger and the Hadfield College Project for some time now, is there any information you can pass on to us?
- Preserving Dover’s Port Heritage
Plans to refurbish some of Dover port’s iconic buildings are under way as part of Dover
Harbour Board’s project to preserve listed properties over the next 3-4 years.
Following the successful refurbishment of the Port’s three lighthouses last year, attention has turned to other listed buildings including the
impressive Grade II Cruise Terminal 1 (CT1) and the covered walkway on Admiralty Pier1.
The preliminary design stage for this £10 million project is underway and it is hoped that the detailed design will begin in autumn 2011.
The complete removal and replacement of CT1’s steel and glass cathedral-style roof will be a major undertaking. The roof, although previously refurbished after war damage, has deteriorated along with the roof access walkways and
protective barriers. A new permanent roof system will be designed to allow safe access for future maintenance and will also be sympathetic to the existing modifications and to the Listed Building requirements.
The new roof,
formed of laminated glazing, will need to withstand impact damage from wave-thrown shingle from the adjacent Shakespeare Beach as well as the constant wave spray and even waves themselves on stormier days! Striking a balance between
strengthening the structure while not impacting on the appearance will also be a challenge for the port’s development team, but one they are determined to meet.
The remaining steelwork will be locally repaired and also repainted,
removing the existing lead paint. Vertical cracks in masonry walls will be repaired and sealed to prevent cracking in the future.
Mike Krayenbrink, Director of Port Development said;
“Our heritage
projects will protect these iconic structures for another century for the enjoyment of all who see and use them. It will enhance the appearance of Dover’s Cruise Terminal in the Western Docks, with the works returning a grand Victorian
building back to its former glory and contributing towards the regeneration of the Western Docks ahead of Terminal 2.”
In the top shot you can see the positioning of the building in
the harbour, its located in the top left of the picture. Close up of the building and roof left.
- Good news Paul - the work is certainly overdue as the
plastic in the roof of the Marine station looks awful
Bit worrying though that DHB think a station opened in 1915 is Victoriian !!!!!
- Gary,
the Betteshanger Enterprise bid was not put forward for Enterprise Zone status by its sponsors.
It will form part of a series of bids for the £950m
Regional Growth Fund round which closes for submissions on 30th June.
It has strict qualifying criteria, part of which includes a strong private sector content, an immediacy in job delivery & support funding. The main thrust
though is the private sector backing.
This fund supports new jobs & they must be private sector not displaced/relocated public sector jobs. - PaulW.
Thanks for info, things are moving then, let’s hope they are successful.
Things are going to get worse, very quickly, in our corner of Kent, if progress on employment is not
secured
- This is welcoming news, as I have said in the past the covered Admiralty Pier walkway has become an eyesore and needs major structural work done to it including
sandblasting all of the steelwork. The temporary repairs ie props and plastic corrigated new panels do nothing to enhance the look of what was a beautiful building. - 750,000 People are expected to go on strike today.
Public sector workers will walk out in their thousands and thousands today in the biggest strike in
years...all kinds of services are affected and indeed 85% of all schools are affected, which in turn will result in many parents abondoning plans to go to their own work today too. It could be shutdown Britain.
Unions say though
that this is just the beginning.....
Mark Serwotka, leader of the Public and Commercial Services Union said: "Today we will see hundreds of thousands of civil and public servants on strike. We fully expect
to be joined by millions more in the autumn."
Here in Dover the UK Border Agency are already on strike having downed tools last night. Huge delays are expected for
travellers coming into the UK as passport officers join the strike. Those leaving the country should not be too affected.....the following information just in from DFDS.
Chris Newey, Director of Passenger Services for the
DFDS Seaways English Channel route, says:
"On Wednesday 29th and Thursday 30th June 2011 people travelling into the UK may experience delays at the UK Border Control due to a strike called by the Public and
Commercial Services Union, beginning at 18:00hrs on the 29th and ending at midnight on the 30th. Sailings on the DFDS Seaways Dover to Dunkerque route will be unaffected by this strike, however, we do advise travellers to allow extra
time for checking-in and arriving at Dover and Dunkirk Ports, as well as for onward travel."
- my understanding the labour leader locally
on district council is on radio kent at 0745 this morning - another interesting point on radio kent just now
avarage pensions
teachers £10,000
firefighters
£13,000
MP's £21,000 - Keith - the problem with averages is that they only tell a small part of the story.
For anyone in the private sector to get a pension
the equivalent (as a proportion of salary) of a teacher or fireman they would have to invest something like 40% of their salary. Even then they would lack the comfort of the guarantees enjoyed by the public sector.
Remember as
well that the proposed changes still provide a defined benefit - a massive luxury almost extinct in the private sector. - Latest
info just through from DHB....The Port of Dover is open and operating as usual. There are no delays...despite the picketing by the UK Border Agency.
- There are so many various figures and statistics flittering about the airwaves but the basic problem for many lower paid workers is the amount
of EXTRA money they have to contribute out of their wage/salary every month. In some cases £60 extra per month, and sometimes more. In these austere times thats a heck of a shocker for many people...all this for a lower pension return
and of course they have to work longer too. One can understand the disgruntlement. - Thats great information coming in there from the Port of Dover and DFDS
Seaways keeping us abreast of the situation regarding the strike today.
It's good to see that everything is running smoothly at the port.
- we can normally rely
on the port staff to rise to the occassion when problems arise.
looks like they are going the extra mile again. - The initial prophesy of striking numbers was
an overestimation...the unions suggest 200,000 went on strike (although they were hoping for 750,000) while the government figure puts the number more at 100,000. Who you believe very much depends on what side of the coin you are coming
from regarding your support.
On the BBC's Question Time last night from Birmingham the audience seemed to be overwhelmingly in support of the teachers and in fact all public sector workers. You could probably take that as a rough
straw poll. Unions are suggesting these strikes will only get larger and a winter of discontent is forecast.
I lived through the previous winter of discontent and am here to tell the tale, it wasnt
pleasant. - A big big failure by the Unions after all their talk. Even if you believe their figure (I dont) of 200,000 thats only a fraction of what they
wanted.
A more authorative source says 107,000 went on strike.
As for Question Time - I have a look at the panel and did not bother to record or see it. Clearly the whole programme was a set up to support the strike and
just not worth bothering with. That must have been the most biased left wing panel ever produced, the BBC should be ashamed of themselves. - Brillant picture above of
lastnights Rainbow, LOL!!!! wonder if that pot of gold was at the end. - if there was it probably sank jan, lovely photo though.
The Regatta kicks off today...with allsorts of events. More detail on our thread in the Forum, but the
events today are topped off by the fireworks at 10PM...dont miss the fireworks!!
There are terrific events on all day...my favourite as always is the RNLI/Air Sea Rescue display which goes on at 1pm today. Always good for a
few nice pictures that one.
Re Rainbow Pic :Yes guys you would need a whole team of divers to reach that pot of gold. Its rather deep out there. Every so often you get a spectacular rainbow
and that was one on thursday night.
Ive never heard of anyone recently finding the pot of gold sadly...although there was a leprechaun one time who told a tale or two about finding the gold but instead of making him happy it made
him very miserable. So there you have it..who needs all that dosh when we have each other !!!!!- BARRYW;
You underestimate the unions many who have sat back
at this time like unison, the RMT plus many more, in the hope that the cobbled together govt tories section sees sense and does try to resolve the issue rather than use it as a tactic to attack the unions.
There will be many more
problems for some time to come, and i hope the tories try to resolve the issues of concern rather than make this a confrontation.
on the more positive side, the regatta is one of the few large great events organised in
Dover one thatr the organisers should be proud of, and well done to them all - great shots of the helicopter and the eventual rescue.
a great event all round. - some fantastic pictures paulb
- The carnival was great especially King Henry the Queen and the Prince and nice to
see Popeye and Olive maybe next year I will sort something out well done all it was a fun afternoon. - Thanks Alan, we have had a fantastic day and we hope that Dover
enjoyed it, here's to next year!!! - I'd just like to say thanks to all who organised and participated in the Carnival today. I spoke to a lot of
people afterwards and absolutely everyone was agreed how excellent it was and pleasing to see the Carnival back on track. Bloco Fogo were something special indeed, and so many people put such excellent work into their costumes and
displays. Well done everyone! - "While ambling along the prominade with an independent air...
who should we see..
just a trundling
through the fair"
yes indeed its none other than our roving man at the forefront of all things happening, Doverforum associate editor with camera always at the ready, Howard McSweeney himself. Hugging in the blazing sunshine
under the shadow of the castle with former Mayor of Dover Jan Tranter herself.
Just when we thought it was safe to continue up pops the irascibly
effervescent Thomes Guzzler Mitchell the fine old soldier himself, not so much of the old if you please.. sayeth Guzzler with a long distance holler. Much hugging and canoodling was breaking out as you can see..under Guzzlers arm is his
wife of many years Elaine.
There was so much on this weekend that it will take us some time to show pictures from the other events like the Hannents Garden Party and the Carnival. But pictures are on their way.
- Great photos. Looks like everyone had a great weekend. Well done to all those who contributed their time so that others may enjoy a super few
days.
Nice to see Howie being 'snapped' it makes a change from him 'snapping' others. - marek
you would not believe how much it cost me to get jan to pose
with me. - howard,let me guess 2 groats and a packet of sherbet lemons.lol.
- Really busy weekend Regatta
Carnival David and Linda's, so sun sea and a whole lot of sunshine,great time all round.
And Oh must not forget my hugs with Howard very cuddley LOL!!! no goats Brian but sherbet lemons UM....very srummy. - jan,not goats but groats.lol
- Glad to see that Nigel managed to miss falling down any of his potholes...but
made it to his watering hole instead.lol - Enjoying all the photos.
- What a Fantastic weekend it was
in Dover! Nitro Nige was certainly on form and done us proud as he turned into Castle Street just ahead of the Carnival looking very jolly as I captured him on camera at his sunniest. DavidH and the lovely Linda put on a splendid
barbecue party as always and the Carnival was certainly one the best I've ever seen. I had family staying with us over the last week, they thoroughly enjoyed themselves and have already booked to come back next year for more of the
same. - Phew have now added the full batch of pictures above and it took a while to get right...but here we are better later than never.. Well done Colette B as you took most
of them which was a great help as ever. We will have the David and Linda BBQ pictures referred to previously up next including a jolly scoop of MP Charlie Elphicke in fine fettle. So watch for them.
There was so much on this
past weekend that it is taking us a while to get everything on display.
Love the picture of Nigel acknowledging the cheers...and of course the fellow forumites all agog in
anticipation. - the band in the yellow and red are Bloco Fogo!!
Well worth the sponsorship money! - DTC sponsored Bloco Fogo
The bag pipers are the 79th Highlanders with the Western Heights Preservation Society
The Girls in blue top hats are from Beddows
Academy
The haverettes ( sponsored by DFDS Seaways) , again heard they were great
and the last ones, our very own Youth air force.. (sue will kill me for fogetting their names!) - Many thanks Jen..great stuff.
Have now had full info in from Graham Tutthill legend of The Dover Mercury and have added that to the feature above.(ADDED: Feature now moved into All
Recent Features) Phew! very grateful..as got stuck there for a minute.
Many thanks.
"Full details results and loads of carnival photos in this weeks Dover
Mercury" - Nice the carnival went so well, and plans already in hand for the following year.
All looking
good - Yes indeed the feedback from everyone about the carnival was very good indeed. It really cheered people up to see it in fine fettle. The picture feature on it has now
moved into All Recent Features see menu left. Am now adding pictures shortly from the Garden Party as mentioned above at top of page. Charlie is enjoying himself above there..summer fun and frolics!
Ah summer! Now...where did I
put my Pimms... - great set of pictures paul.
- I am sorry to have missed it this year,I see
all my fans turnout to meet me. Well done and some great photos to. - We missed you Vic!
- some
missed vic(won't say who didn't lol) - The likeable lad on the left is the well known Customs Officer John aka
'Rambo'. - Linda you can hold my hand at this years boxingday dip.
- Shure whats a girl to do! with so
many charming men around her, but to flirt with them all lol! And as for Charlie, well who could resist! It was a great afternoon, many thanks to Linda and DavidH for their kind hospitality. Roll on next year, glad you all liked the
pix. - Boland and Medgett meet at the OK Corral.
* * *
They faced each other down the long
street as the sun sank in the west. Phil Medgett of the Dover Express went for his weapon first while Colette Boland of Doverforum was equally quick on the draw. They both fired simultaneously...shooting each other rat tat tat. There
were lots of bystanders as you can see, and right in the thick of the smoke filled action.
Nobody was hurt at the end of the day and each got their shot in....then with an acknowledged sigh at the stalemate, both mosied off into
the quiet evening, lit by the reddening sun. - great "shoot out" pic!
- Gawd! That made me laugh
PaulB, so you noticed the 'Duel in the Sun', we both reached for our weapons at the same time without noticing each other doing so, but I can assure you I drew first, lol! Kathy, would be good to see Phil's version.
In the
background I see VictoriaH looking very smart in her cheerleaders uniform. - All it needed was Terry Scott so it could have been Reservoir Dogs!
- Great set of pictures above of last weekends festivity,and was good to see everyone at Linda and Davids yearly bash, even the weather didnt let us down. Nice to meet up with Colettes
brother and his lovely wife Liz.
Snapped at last Mr Medgett! - Bust Up on Newsnight!
Local Publican Paul McMullan, who runs The Castle Pub opposite Russell St carpark here in Dover, has been on our screens night and day recently. He has
been a feature of every channel and every news programme. The reason being is that Paul was formerly a features editor on the now infamous News of the World. Mr McMullan has taken it upon himself to be the voice of all hackers
everywhere..or more specifically all hackers of the News of the World. This you might think is a very brave thing to do..in the teeth of the onslaught from infuriated public opinion. Yes indeed it is, as nobody else has come forward. But
local man Paul has gone on all channels and defended at least partially some of the things they did. He did say though, at one point in all this media frenzy, that the episode with Milly Dowler went too far.
Paul has been attacked by all and sundry including Hugh Grant, and last night he put himself in the firing line once again and tried to absorb a fierce attack from an incandescent Steve Coogan, the writer actor and
comedian, who was, it appears, severely and outrageously hacked by Mr McMullan previously.."he even camped outside my door all night" said Coogan in a rage.
At one point in the animated and oh so heated discussion it looked like
Coogan was about to leap over the table at the offender or defender depending on your point of view. All the usual insults were trotted out against the News of the World as you would expect. Gutter press, morally bankrupt
etc
McMullan retorted that these celebrities like Coogan are very keen to cosy up to the press when it suits them, but dont like the tables turned.
Will Self, well known writer and a regular television pundit, joined the
discussion later after McMullan had left and made a very relevant point. He said that " the real culprits in all this are the British public, those who buy the paper in their millions every week". Well, he could have a point there, we
all love the revelations, the gossip, the expose's, and gobble it up to satisfy our avaricious appetite for all things tacky.
Well there you have it !
PS: See also the threads in our Forum..News of the World and
Hacking.
Pictures: Top left Steve Coogan, Top right Paul McMullan, midway pic is Hugh Grant.
- in defence of our local lad he is right about
celebrities using the media for their own benefit and not liking it when the position is reversed.
the milly dowler, soham girls, deceased troops issue is very different of course. - I disagree that "we all like the gossip and revelations". I long ago decided that it was all gross and intrusive and frankly I fail to see the attraction. If one has a life
it is unnecessary to pore over others lives and take pleasure in their misfortunes and smacks of desperation. As for celebrities courting the press you could equally claim that charities do the same, but hands up who would condone
slimeballs hacking the phones of charity workers and bosses. There is a bit of a difference between someone like Jordan who has, I believe, "lived" on TV in one of those shameful reality tv stunts and someone who is simply in the
public eye because they are good at acting or tell some jokes. - I find myself,may be for the first time,agreeing with Mr Self.I think there is definately a systemic problem
with societies relationship with the media,however this is not an historical precedent look at the the power Lord Beverbrook held.Perhaps this is a more personal issue regarding Rupert Murdoch and the chance to throw off the yoke of the
Australians repression.
P.s. It is good to be back and please accept my apologies for my absence.
I also think the question needs to be now asked how far will
this go ?.- a long way to go yet john, ms brooks has admitted that it may take another two years before it all comes out.
- The irony of it Howard is what an interesting time to be a journalist.
- Excellent piece by PaulB there just goes
to show how it has infuriated people, but it begs one to wonder how many people will stop reading news papers. - The only time I buy a newspaper is if I am on a long
train journey.
I agree to a certain extent with Will Self but not all celebrities want self publicity some only want to promote the play, film or book and their interviews are few and far between.
- yep jan;
and like jennie morgan ex indy and tory i havn't bought an express for some years. - I love the newspapers, read as many of them every day as I can cram in. I do not include such comics as the Sun, NoW, Mirror, Mail and Express in the term
Newspaper........, although I do sometimes read them to get the balance. Plus, my Father in Law reads the Mail as if it were Gospel and I can get a rise out of him if I have read it too. You have to take your pleasures where you can find
them atg my age............. - I'm with you there Bern, at my age! ................. Lol!!!!!
Gathering information is so easy for the press these days. Modern technology
has allowed them to sit in comfort hacking phones and email accounts, a far cry from blundering through the dark at night searching in bins. Its shameful the depths that these journalists have resorted
to. 
Way back when this hacking story broke we all thought it was about celebrities only. Sienna Miller had her phone hacked and we all thought..."Big Deal!".."Who Cares!" .."So what!".
It all failed miserably to resonate
with the public as nobody was too bothered if those that lived by media exposure were also to die by the same media exposure. Not literally of course, but it seemed a fair sport.
But now that we have all had our hackles raised to
boiling point, if indeed hackles can boil, it seems odd that the current role of 'arbiters of public taste', seems to have fallen on the shoulders of some of those very same celebs.
Melanie Phillips of the Daily Mail has raised
this very point, this oddball phenomenon. Hugh Grant and Steve Coogan have been on television in angry mode in recent nights, feeling very affronted and speaking out with some venom. Melanie, who is the far tip of right wing, and who is
a familiar face on BBC's Question Time, was quoted on Radio 4 this morning and you might well have sympathy with her ideas.
She said that the Coogan and Grant campaign is more about "the sweet smell of revenge" and that it has
the "loud shrill of hypocrisy about it".
Reason that its all very odd is that nobody initially cared if a celeb phone was hacked one way or the other. So instead of these guys presenting themselves on a moral high ground
platform, it's really all about revenge and jumping on the bandwagon. They played the media game and got burnt, others who did NOT play the media game got seriously burnt and that's the real moral high ground, and that's what ignited
public opinion.
(More on these two celebs below)- PaulB
It was quite ironic reading that Coogan who has gloated at the demise of the Murdoch owned NOTW
owes much of his £10million fortune to his two hit movies 'Night at the Museum' and its sequel. Both produced by 20th Century Fox and owned by Murdochs production company.
Funny old world init? Coogans comments may yet come back
to haunt him. - many celebrities and sportspeople seem to want to use the media when it suits them and expect privacy when it suits them too.
todays premiership
footballers owe their huge salaries to the fact that bskyb pay a fortune to the clubs. - I just like to say thank,s to ian lillford for the last 3 weekends it has been
good and thank to David and Linda Hannent for welcoming me to the bbq party. - Welcome Ted and indeed welcome to all the other new members who have recently joined
in.
By the way Ted in case you have missed it there is a full picture feature on David and Linda's BBQ. Go to ALL RECENT FEATURES on the menu at left of page and you can find the feature there...even a picture of yourself in that
dashing hat.
Have just noticed that overnight we have broken through the 1,000,000 ( yes indeed one million) viewer mark for this page.
The figures are for this page only, other pages have further figures. The counter is at top right of page. The page is three years old to the week...but if Im remembering correctly we didnt even start the counters til
much later.
The viewing figures started lowish but have increased dramatically in recent times. Not bad at all, we keep this a small town website so not bad for a small town website, we havent gone
national nor international but strictly Dover and peripheries.
We will have to organise a drink or two by way of a celebration...but its come up on us quicker than expected.
Break out the brown ale!
Picture from a previous celebration..showing yours truly centre with two of the tip top men who have been with me since the garden of eden..Paul Scotchie Wells left and Ian Croc Lillford right.
- Congratulations to Dover forum and everyone who takes part on it
=and of course paulb and all his team.
it's enjoyed by so many people, well
done to you all.
on the press release, nice to see at last the labour party at all levels starting the fight back.
slowly they are regaining ground, and cameron who has clearly had his honeymoon period, is in
decline and boris is just waiting for the right time for party support to take over from cameron - Well done over 1million looking in,and lads lets face it ,most do it to read
about myself. - impressive figures i had not even noticed that the front page viewings had got anywhere near a million.
- Indeed they do tune in to read about your goodself Vic..Here is a picture of yourself and that other rogue Brian Dixon taken at the Neighbourhood Forum on Sea Change a while
back. I have lots of pictures in the archives of absolutely everybody!
This is one for your fans Vic... Brian Dixon left, Vic Matcham right.
Indeed Howard...it crept up on us very
fast. - Wow great viewing figures there over the Million, just goes to show what a good community service Doverforum gives, well done guys and to all who
contribute. - that photo from the harbour board fascinates me.
was it taken from a helicopter or a plane, there seemed to be helicopters at the regatta weekend
that were not air sea rescue or pleasure flights. - This forum has really grown wings! It has been a pleasure to be part of it along with all the other rather
fascinating and definitely charming individuals who belong. It is a good example of People Power and the Big Society without being forced. The Best! - The pic is a few years
old as the bus station is still there.... - I share BERN'S view, we have so many varied views on this forum and in the main we have the freedom to post.
I
enjoy reading all the diuffering views, even those that may disagree wtih me.
Long may the forum continue - fully aree with bern and keith, always good to let off steam
and also listen to people that see the same issue from a different standpoint.
paul
are you referring to the stagecoach depot that was demolished a couple of years back? - Yes Howard, you can just see it poking behind Burlington House
- The forum has become a great sounding
board from the voice of the Dover Community, over 1 Million views on the Home Page alone.
Thats over 5 Million taking the views from the Members Club pages into account, Wow! Well Done to all who have contributed to this thriving
site. - It just shows how two faced politicians can be this is the man who said Belgium was a none country and here he is laying a wreath in Belgium at the at the gate of
remembrance in Ypers
- was trying to upload that pic earlier alan without success.
don't see the problem with our member
nigel laying a wreath though. - You are well out of order with this one Mr Taylor,he did not say Belgium was a none country,what he said was their leader was that is
not the same. - Irrespective of what he said, that's a terrible jacket!
- Dear Mr Matchem
I still have the news clip were he stood up in the house in the EU and said to the president who are you, you are a none country ,that country looks after 98% of our war dead and as such he should have been a bit more
respectful about Belgium.I have many good friends over there and believe me they are a wonderful group of people that think we in Britain are wonderful shame we cant treat there country with the respect they deserve. And Mr Matcham I did
vote for this man thinking he stood for fairness for the British people not to slag off other countries because they did not see is point of view. - Mr Taylor I also
have the news clip,his wording was not at its best but he was only talking about the president and the way he worked. - i think that mr farage was referring to the fact
that a split in belgium is on the cards and they may soon become 3 different states.
on the more serious matter, i was not impressed by his choice of jacket either. - As you'd probably expect... I rather like the jacket.
- Yup - jacket has the potential to divide a nation.
Whatever he thinks of Belgium (if that isn't an
oxymoron) that is a separate issue to honouring the war dead. - He was at the Open today in his salmon slacks and blazer.Looked a bit lost.
- wouldn't think he would be lost for long wearing salmon slacks.
maybe the local ukip guru could give him some sartorial advice? - salmon is not in season at the moment,but could be shot for crimes against fashion.
- With these super duper
viewing figures I feel a party coming on!!!! - colette,when,where,and what time.lol
Port and Ferry Operators urge UK Government to ease summer getaway
The Port of Dover and the three Dover ferry operators, P&O Ferries, DFDS Seaways and SeaFrance Ltd, are jointly calling on Government and the Highways Agency to implement swift action on the
main road artery to Dover. This is in anticipation of worsening congestion at Folkestone as the Port and its ferry operators gear up for the main summer holiday period.
Following a series of communications with the Roads
Minister and the Highways Agency, Dover is warning that the repercussions of not rapidly addressing the lane restrictions at the Roundhill Tunnels in Folkestone on the A20, caused by failed expansion joints on the Roundhill Viaduct,
could lead to severe congestion on a daily basis, making the situation worse than Operation Stack for local residents.
A permanent repair to the fault is several months away and so the need to provide an adequate temporary
solution is becoming critical if the key route to the UK’s busiest ferry port is to cope with the anticipated volumes of traffic through the busy summer season. Tourist traffic is predicted to increase by 50% next weekend (22-24 July)
with over a quarter of a million passengers expected to travel by ferry via Dover during this busy start to the school holidays.
The port and ferry operators are calling on the Highways Agency to order and install temporary
bridging units in order that both lanes of each carriageway on this trans-European roadway can be re-opened as a matter of urgency. They are also pressing for the motorway variable message signs to be fully utilised so that as much car
and coach traffic as possible is encouraged to use the M2/A2 route to Dover and to minimise the delays at the tunnels and in nearby Folkestone.
In the meantime, customers are advised to use the A2/M2 route to and from the Port of
Dover.
ADDED NOTES:
The busiest day is expected to be Saturday 23rd July when the port could handle over 20,000 vehicles, the equivalent of 14 cars per minute passing through the Port.
The
coast-bound and London-bound expansion joints of the A20 have both failed at the Folkestone end of the Roundhill Tunnels where the viaduct joins the tunnels.
Both carriageways have been reduced to a single lane for several weeks
with 30mph speed limits imposed.
Whilst temporary bridging units have been installed in order to allow single lane traffic movements, there are currently not enough bridging units to cover all four lanes and enable full dual
carriageway usage, albeit still with speed restrictions.
Temporary bridging units are thought to be on several weeks delivery once ordered.
- This eastern end of the beach was very much on the imagery pace this morning, it must be the sudden outbreak of sunshine! There were two different photoshoots happening before the eyes of the
gobsmacked public. The girl left was being photographed for..well presumably her good looks, whereas the guy below, strikingly attired in long coat and black hat, was being photographed as he blasted out some blues on his trumpet long
and loud, presumably commanding the waves to retreat...the waves still rolled in however. Not terribly usual to see a trumpet player in long coat playing his instrument fist thing on a lonely beach..still there we are...never a dull
moment.
- I wonder if the
lonesome soloist was a distant relative of King Canute or more than likely Old King Cole, who was a merry old soul. - i was more taken with the musician barry, the moment
ray sees that he will be down the the seafront before you could say george formby.
ok george played a ukelele but same sort of thing. - Nice seafront pictures, a
choice of trumpet or crumpet. 
Local Dover man Paul McMullan was back on view on the BBC's Newsnight last night. Once again the former News of the World journalist held himself aloft as
the archtypical hacking villain, so that others can now.. in luxurious hindsight, comfortably throw bricks at him. He is an easy target but perhaps gains a sort of bulletproof confidence from the knowledge that he gave us what we, the
British Public at large, actually wanted. As Carl Bernstein legendary journalist of Watergate fame said on the same programme last night.."the British public lapped it up". The guilty apple isnt falling far from anyone's
tree.
Paul now runs the local pub here in central downtown Dover called The Castle.
Once again he suggested that Rebekah Brooks was guilty throughout this hacking scandal and knew exactly what was going on. Rebekah, who was
seen on our TV screens yesterday giving a squeeky clean performance, denies all knowledge of everything and anything. Butter wouldnt melt! Never before has an organisation known so little about anything at all. As the select committee
said, they suffer from "collective amnesia". She has now quit her job and is under arrest.
And talking about house of commons select committees. They seem little more than an ego driven talking shop revelling in hindsight. The
Murdochs went in front of the latest one yesterday...the event was much hyped beforehand but the committee actually found out nothing new and accomplished nothing at all...other than to show that there was a chronic lack of security in
the building as seen when Rupert Murdoch, an 80 year old man, was attacked in full view of the worlds television and the yapping poodle MP's.
Pictures: Paul McMullan as seen on Newsnight last night pictured left. Rebekah Brooks
pictured right appearing before the select committee yesterday.
- PaulB
I thought he was the landlord of the Castle
pub? - Ah yes indeed Marek..that was todays deliberate mistake !!..will change it now. Well done...all useful info
welcomed. - Beware - it sounds to me as if some old scores are being settled. Believe who you want to believe. The main victim in this whole sorry scandal is
truth. - i watched the edited highlights and it came across as a feeding frenzy for the m.p's a lot of old scores being settled.
rupert murdoch came across as
contrite on the milly dowler hacking but absolved himself of any responsibility for anything.
the younger murdoch is clearly a clever clogs with the ability to speak for hours and say nothing. 
our honourable member pictured here giving his opinion in the commons just now.- Well done with that one Howard ..very fast. Yes got a couple of pictures myself and here's one of same. Pretty soon after the PM Mr Cameron
had finished his statement on his role in the current hacking kerfaffle and in particular on his relationship with Andy Coulson, our local MP for Dover and Deal Charlie Elphicke was called. One had to grapple in double quick time for
one's camera but here he is pictured left in a packed Commons.
Charlie called for yet more clarity on political dealings with the media even for the transparency to go back as much as 10 years...with a finger wagging nod to the
opposition benches, who were as you might expect already in uproar. Charlie said the lack of transparency "just isnt good enough!" - PAULB;
Iagree with
some of your comments, but the select committee's were robust in trying to get the info out of all those concerned in this fiasco.
Murdoch rupert was either playing a very good game, or realy has no control over his journalists,
which ever is the correct one both are worrying for the future.
james murdoch was much more polished and did a lot to calm the waters.
sadly it was all overshadowed by the lack of security, the one policeman in the
committee room who aoppeared to be in the complete wrong position!!
- Yes, saw Charlie speak today, he done well calling for more transparency on political dealings
with all media. Must say Nick Clegg looked decidedly uncomfortable every time David Cameron spoke, he kept looking off into the distance with a look of 'what the hell am i doing here' on his face. The Murdoch's sure know how to talk a
load of nothingness. - collette;
james murdoch is trying to protect his empire and a polished speaker, but not sure that will be enough.
rupert murdoch is
realy out of touch an elderly person who appears to have lost control of his own empire
it will take a fair time(if ever) for the murdoch empire to recover, but also journalists in
general. - Just to follow on from Colette's point about Nick Clegg. Yes indeed he did look completely out of it today..see picture
left...thats him in the dazzling yellow tie. He alternated between looking skywards into the far distance or staring at the wooden bench in front of him. Completely out to lunch. In a way you can almost feel sad looking at him as he has
completely lost it. No longer appearing to be close to Cameron he looks very odd sitting there with a string of Conservatives at his elbow. The word uncomfortable was invented for him.
Along the bench but out of sight is fellow
Libdem Danny Alexander who is completely comfortable in his role, not feeling any strain at all. A tory in the making surely. - paulb/collette
I think we have
discussed many times the lib dems and clegg in general
he is finished., just waiting for the general election to finish him off,its like someone with a gaping wound, bleeding slowly to
death - PaulB
I think that now is the time for the Lib/Dems to pull out of the coalition therefore saving some face and perhaps regaining some of their integrity with
their voters. A vote of no confidence would follow and a general election would ensue.
The web is full of ''this could bring the govt down'' type rumours. - MAREK;
Clegg is fully aware he's on borrowed time
looking like near complete wipe out
and instead of regaining the ground and trying to distance themselves from the tories it hasn't
worked
- the web is full of chinese whispers, i do not see the government falling over this.
should the yellows decide to to pull out the blues will go it
alone.
the last thing the country needs is a general election with all the global financial stuff going on. - I feel that now is the time for Nick Clegg to take
up the baton and distance himself from his coalition partner David Cameron, hopefully it will put a stop to all the 'Clegg Bashing' constantly being used as a scapegoat which is getting a bit boring actually.
- with you there barry, cleggy is looking very good at the moment distancing himself and managing to look self righteous.
his party has never been courted by news
international so nothing to hide.
i can see the best comeback since lazarus for the yellows if things fall right. - Watching most of this unfold yesterday, it
was hard to know who knew what in all of this. They all seem to be trying to get themselfs out of the quagmire, and today Cameron made sure he came out fighting, making sure he distanced himself from Andy Coulson. As for Nick Glegg well
he only looks battle weary. I am sure there will be much of this we will never know about. - Cameron should follow the lead of Sir Robert Stephenson and resign, that
will require a measure of decency and humility , I will not hold my breath. - If every politician who had dealings with dodgy journalists had to resign, we would have an empty
parliament and empty council chambers all over Britain. There is a danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. - Martin - why?
Is someone guilty because the
wife of a friend happens to be accused of a crime?
Cameron has done nothing that previous PMs have not done, going back to Beaverbrook and Churchill and before. Judging from the courting of NI by Blair and Brown, probably less so
in actual fact.
You really need to do a reality check and find out what is actually important and substantial.
Baldwin and Salter came to our attention a short while ago when they advertised with us here on Doverforum. They were a new name
to us when they showed an interest in advertising and we were delighted to have them onboard. As a follow up to our initial chat they asked us to come and visit them and see their new showroom at 77 London Road.. This we duly
did.
So a week or so back ,with pen and camera at the ready, ColetteB amd myself paid them a flying visit to see their new setup. It’s a very impressive showroom at London Road with an interior
that’s been completely revamped, refurbished , well…call it what you will. As we always say here on Doverforum it really is both encouraging and terrific to see a new business powering forward with confidence, particularly in these
difficult times and particularly in Dover. The guys concerned Matt Salter and James Baldwin are very personable young men , both from Dover and both showing a real level of expertise and enterprise. They have been in business for several
years but have taken a step forward, a step up the ladder, with this new showroom right here in London Road.
The showroom at London Road shows some of their intricate plumbing skills and is well worth a visit for anyone
considering new household work. The guys say that going green is the trend of the 21st century. “We all do our bit, not only to save the planet but saving the planet also saves us considerable amounts of money as well.”
For
example boilers are often an overlooked commodity, yet they can save considerable amounts of money and energy when upgraded. Baldwin and Salter stick to the brand they know and trust, they install the latest energy efficient boilers
specific to your home and requirements which sees the boilers work harder in a greener way…all the while saving you more. But at Baldwin & Salter they do much more…bathrooms, high spec waterfall taps, power flushing, showers…well its all
here.
They are currently doing a top spec bathroom suite for just £234.00 inclusive of vat. They cant be beaten on this price..so pop in to see them. See also their advert on our ad page or rotating at top of page.
We are
delighted to let people know about a new Dover enterprise powered by real Dover initiative.
Picture top right shows James Baldwin left and Matt Salter right. Other pictures self explanatory.
- Barry , his judgement over the appointment of Coulson , despite numerous warnings about appointing him, shows poor judgement and a unbelievable arrogance,
Coulson is a criminal and should not have been allowed anywhere near the heart of government. Yesterday Cameron was asked nine times if he had discussed the BSB takeover with Murdoch at any of their many meetings , nine times he did not
answer! He is too closely involved in this scandal and has surely lost his credibilty to be seen as a suitable person to lead our Country, I am sure if a Lib Dem cabinet minister had shown such poor judgement he would very soon be a ex
cabinet minister! - Martin - Coulson has not been found guilty of a crime so your statement branding him a criminal is inaccurate at best and actionable at worst. The law is
still clear that you are innocent until proven guilty.
All you have against Cameron is innuendo. So what if he employed Coulson - look at that dubious character RedEd has employed from NI.
Look also at how close Brooks
and the Murdochs were to Blair and Brown while the hacking was actually going on.
If you want to make slurs and accusations based only on association against Cameron the same can be said of all other politicians.
As I have
said there are much more important things to worry about like the threat of a US/European financial meltdown and the shocking state in which Brown left our own economy.
Trying to point score over such trivia as you are doing is
frankly absurd. - i can vouch for that bit about boilers, the newer ones are far more fuel efficient and with energy bills the way they are it could be worth splashing
out on new one. - Very true Howard, you certainly notice the difference in your utility bills even by the end of your first quarter. The guys at Baldwin Salter
certainly know their stuff and have some great deals going on at present with the opening of their super new look showroom. - cameron by his own party findings wont allow
him to walk free on this one.
after all the advice cameron ignored it all
now we see the royals also not happy
as for lib dems making same mistake
sadly they already have on other issues and the cobbled together
govt nowcant afford to leave each other
they know there time is up
starting with boris making his moves to take over - Good luck. Hope the Guys at Baldwin and Salter
do well, always good to see a new enterprise up and running.Being on our Local Doverforum is a good commercial break. - It's good to see Matt and James's new showroom
in the London Road. I do like the continuous running bath in the front window, maybe we should run a competition to see who will take a bath in it, though it may frighten the little yellow duck, 77 Sunset Strip lol!
I wish them
all the best with their new showroom. - Not being a regular poster on your fantastic forum, I hope you will allow me to ask one question.
Reading the Forum very
active Sue Nicholas is chairman of the District council?
There is also a Town council?
who have a mayor?
If theres an event in Dover where the Mayor and Sue attend
who is most important?
You can see I have no
interest in politics, and rarely vote - Terry - The Chairman of Dover District Council is more senior and takes precedence over the Town Mayor.
- The inglorious British summer continues. Its all anoraks and umbrellas as you can see in the picture left. Visitors must come with the right
level of equipment...Sou'westers, gumboots, flare pistols, anti-hypothermia fleece lined underwear, whiskey flask...well you get the drift..
No surprise then that everyone is
heading off to continental Europe for a bit of a hoped for improvement in conditions. We are forewarned that this weekend is the busiest weekend of the entire year with the port handling possibly in excess of 20,000 cars on saturday or
14 cars a minute, so be prepared for local delays..or possibly even chaos. This traffic picture left was taken yesterday(thursday) at approx 4.30 in the afternoon. You mean...its gonna get worse than this...stand by your beds!
See more port detail on the joint press release below from DHB,DFDS,Seafrance,P&O. - I am happy to make a testimonial in support of Baldwin
and Salter, we have used them on a couple of occasions and the quality and price has always been very good.
I have been meaning to visit them and chat to Leigh, their office Manager since they moved out of the Accommodation Shop
some months ago.
When I worked for the Channel Chamber (on work-placements), they took two, maybe 3 young people, don't know if they put them on an apprenticeships, but at that time, were quite keen to be
involved.
Roger - Thanks Barry ,Not many people know that .I get on well with the Current Mayors of Dover Deal and Sandwich.I try to explain the reason why I
take precedence .
I usually say I dont wear ribbons with my chain which is somewhat smaller than the chains worn by most Mayors . - all this stuff about mayors can
be confusing.
at dover roundhouse last night seats clearly reserved for the mayor and chair of district council were filled by another couple altogether. - Wow
Thats some photo of the traffic conjestion at the Eastern Docks...my giddy aunt - Were you there howard .?Not confusing Howard County Council,District or Boroughs ,TownCouncil
same as Parish Councils .
- Howard even you get it wrong .I will forgive you
- no but my
contacts in df6, local intelligence service keep me informed of all that happens.
you should have had them thrown out. - Off with their heads Howard
- typical of your spirit of forgiveness susan to present the best actor award to the daughter of the squatters.
- LOL!!! in my year as Mayor Sue and Howard when the Roundhouse started, you could buy a seat so i bought one, so hey guys next time you go ask to sit in my seat it has my name on the back.
Wow that is some traffic jam, on
the radio today they said it was going to be a busy weekend for crossing the channel. - The problems at the Roundhill tunnels were on Meridian news last night - the
first item.
I think it is shocking that the Highways Agency won't pay for the other half of each of the tunnels to have a temporary job done, so both lanes can be re-opened.
The busiest passenger port in Europe, the
Gateway to England and Europe and we still don't warrant the extra expense.
Many people will surely pull off for the Channel Tunnel as it is before the problem, reducing the traffic and business for Dover.
As the Highways
Agency is part of the Government and so are our local MPs, should they not be fighting to make the HA spend the money - we pay enough in taxes etc. to have this done and better roads too of course, but that's another
argument.
Roger - That cost would be close on a million pounds and it would only be in place for a few weeks ,If you can just pick your time for going, or
like I do never go near them at this time. - looking at that top picture maybe all the traffic is the wrong side of the roundhill tunnels?
there hasn't been
enough national publicity to deter people from using dover, as roger says it was on meridian news last night but that is the first time i have seen anything on the situation. 
Ah! some life at last. This is the situation at 10.15 so there has been an increase on the the volume as depicted earlier in the shot at the top of the page. So traffic is getting through.
Volumes seem to be down though but thats just a laymans guess, or the guess of the casual observer who has witnessed many a getaway.
The Ferry companies will be hoping for max volume in order to boost their coffers. If they dont
get the numbers now when will they. Although with the Euro now being nearly on par with the English pound, there's not much value in Europe at the moment. Some of us go anyway, seduced by the lure of those continentals. The wine, the
food, the w.......no I'll ermmm stop there !- to be honest the long term solution to the problem is not as simple as fixing the tunnels
A complete review
of traffic management needs to be undertaken and needs to look at radical solution including tolls to drive traffic to take the routes we want, dualing the A2, lorry parks close to Dover to manage overflow from Stack etc.
Dover
needs to reclaim its sea front for the benefit of the town and cannot do that whilst Townwall Street is the main route to the Eastern Docks. - Having the A2 dualled and
lorries destined for the ferry companies operating from the Eastern Docks would help, also the trucks that come down the M20/A20 using the Western Docks would alleviate the vast majority on Snargate/Townwall Streets.
Directions at
Dartford would help the drivers know which route to take, but there are roads en-route that can be taken to swap across.
Dover does need to be able to reclaim its seafront Ross, I agree; the landbridge and making the underpass
more pleasant, will be one way, this will be the other.
But the experts all know this, this isn't new thinking, but it does need a higher priority and dedicated funds to achieve
it.
Roger - What is wrong with this site try to add pic and its turning red and it wont let you add more also some pages are exposed twice
Help
- to much beer last night then alan,how many times have i told you to take more water with it.lol.
- Took a stroll down to the flowerbeds this morning as I wanted to get a picture of the wonderfully planted Norwegian Flag here on Dover seafront. Thought I would display it here by way of a
harmonious gesture of support for the people of Norway after the awful senseless butchery on friday.
Added this extra picture to show something of the current marvellous
flower display again on the seafront. It's certainly worth stopping off and lingering here in Dover. Our seafront is looking good.
NOTE for ALAN:
Alan Im afraid Brian beat me to it with that funny quip...if you
are having double vison and red blotchiness i can only put it down to the excesses of last nights alcoholic intake...lol!!!
As Brian says there, have more water with it.
As you can see by the pictures just uploaded here, all
appears to be working fine. - Hopefully some of Mels wedding pics
- Alan Im afraid your
upload didnt work. It may be that your picture is larger than the 2MB allowed. Note that there is also a thread on Mel's event in the forum section with pictures by Howard, worth seeing in case you havent spotted it. You could try
uploading it there as the pictures are a bit larger in the forum, but reduce the size below 2MB to ensure it works. - I did raise a while ago on towns/villages i
recently visited were thriving, 'up norf' so what is it that dover is lacking in and how can we change it and quick - paul has put up pics of early and late saturday
morning at the port, no later reports though.
can we assume that the gridlock did not happen and traffic moved freely? - howard,the a 20 has been normal as far
as traffic is concerned. - sounds like the predicted traffic jams were only a storm in an egg cup brian.
- The Roundhill Tunnels caused a lot of delays for a number of passengers today getting to the cruise terminal to board the Holland America, there was a lot of very frustrated passengers complaining on arrival at the terminal. I
got stuck there myself on Friday night on my way to Hythe and again on my way back and that was at 11.45pm. I know that a few friends of mine have opted to travel through the Channel Tunnel instead of driving down through Dover to take
the ferries for their holiday. - as useall howard.
sorry to hear about your travel troubals collete. - Following on from what Keef says there about "ooop north". Just had a couple of interesting emails from Alan Sencicle. Himself and Lorraine have just come back from up north and have been
comparing Dover with some of the civic efforts being made up there and are clearly disenchanted with Dover's progress in comparison....
But the main trust of this post is to show the email forwarded to me last week....
from Alan Sencicle
CIVIC RECOGNITION WHERE IT'S DUE
Good afternoon Executive
I was tempted to mention at the last week's meeting how disappointed I have become at the
distinct lack of Civic Recognition for so many folks in our Town who are clearly eligible for such recognition.
At times of economic austerity there is the greatest need for our townsfolk to work for the good of the town and many
are prepared to do this for no monetary reward. We are greatly in need of a increased level of Civic Pride in our Town if we are to stand any chance of reversing the continuing decline.
However, such efforts need to be recognised
and suitably rewarded even if it is no more than an annual Mayoral Reception for afternoon tea and a piece of paper expressing thanks to those involved from the Town Council.
Despite the best efforts of the Dover Society our Town
is in decline. This process will continue if efforts by individuals to reverse this trend continue to be ignored by municipal bodies such as DTC.
Lorraine was nominated by a Dover Society member for a Civic Award. Sadly this has
been withheld. Lorraine devoted many hours of her time in an attempt to secure improved health facilities for Dover and would have been successful if certain individuals hadn't convinced Dovorians that the building of a 'Proper'
Hospital was feasible.
The £22 million that Lorraine played a significant part in securing for improved health facilities for Dover is still available. However, the hospital trust will not spend it if its designated purpose is
rejected by Dovorians.
Lorraine has also spent a great deal of her time, over the past 8 years, researching articles for one of the local newspapers. As a result several hundred have been published, over this period, for no
remuneration whatsoever.
I'm sure there are many people, who have a great deal to offer Dover. However, it doesn't surprise me if they do not take the trouble for the reasons outlined above.
However, it was a very
welcome and pleasant surprise for Lorraine (pictured right) and myself to be invited to take afternoon tea and cakes with Mrs Patricia Ackroyd, the Mayor of East Staffordshire Borough Council when passing through Burton on Trent
recently. Photo attached.
Best wishes
Alan Sencicle - I think in a time of take,take take reminescent of the 1980's it's rewarding to read
about those that give their time freely for civic causes being recognised. We read about the north south divide as if it were some imaginary line dreamed up by novelists in order to give them an excuse to use colloquialisms and
euphemisms of life in the grim upth north however northerners still tend to appreciate those that try to improve their community by rewarding and acknowledging them and not dismissing them as busy bodies. Well done
Lorraine.
- Paulb;
The article is a good one and whilst i have some time for Lorraine she ha a viewpoint on a hospital for Dover this was not shared by many people, and
it was because lorraine and other options could not come together, but it would be wrong to say only lorrains idea was the right one.
I also have concerns when we give out awards like this, we see nationally how O.B.E.'s are
given out to some people who don't deserve them.
To highlight this on a local scale, an MBE was given out to a local person in Dover for his services to football, but more so to his services to the 5 a side
league.
Certainly this caused unrest within the football circles as this guy hadnt done that much, and even within the 5 a side league there were geezers that had formed the league 50 years or so ago and still involved in it.
or
reffed down there fr 50 years
So i thought i would investigate how this award came about,
so i attended this guys celebration of his award, and speeches were made, and then i found out this guy had been nominated by the local MP
a total political move, and in my view totally wrong.
Had the MP spoken to any one in the football circles, or indeed in the 5 a side league(if he wanted to nominate someone)he would have been better to ask someome in that
area.
anyway getting back to the thread, yes I still wonder why small villages up 'norf' can be so inviting, crowded, welcoming, yet Dover struggles to get the basics - As an aside to this article .I see the Mayor uses the same cups as myself .
- i see the term "proper hospital" has come up again in that e mail from
alan.
i am not sure how dovorians can reject any proposal, all decisions have been taken, other than the start date.
i have a sinking feeling that the hospital trust is already looking around for somewhere else to spend the
money.
anymore arguments locally will give them cause. - you may be right howard
- Sadly it is the
maverick attitude that doesn't help the causes in Dover - people need to work together and not independantly with their own agenda.
A lot of people do good things in and around Dover and they don't jump up and down when they
don't get a 'medal'..... - i am wondering which paul posted that last comment.
i have 50 p on paul wells. - whichever paul it was i agree
- There are White Cliffs Countryside Partnership volunteers who give up three or
four days a week to undertake environmental tasks around Dover - hedge planting, litter clearing, path maintenance and so on. Without them giving up their free time, the town would be a much poorer place. Some of these volunteers have
been undertaking such tasks for a decade.
To me they, and others in similar local community staffed groups like them, are the real local heroes who deserve recognition. Ironically such volunteers do not seek exposure or self-
promotion, and would probably baulk at the suggestion of receiving an award. - Chamber News : One for enthusiasts of the
People's Port....
and it's all happening this friday lunchtime.
“Our Port, Our Future”
The two largest business support bodies in the East Kent coastal business community, Dover District Chamber of
Commerce and Thanet & East Kent Chamber, announce a Business Networking Lunch “Our Port, Our Future” on Friday 29th July 2011 at the County Hotel, Dover. The main speaker will be Neil Wiggins, Chairman of Dover People’s Port Trust Ltd.
The presentation will detail the latest results of Dover People’s Port’s bid to government to purchase the Port of Dover for the benefit of the local community. In a poll in Dover last March, this high profile campaign received
the support of 97.5% of voters. The solid backing of Dover’s main ferry companies, the union Unite and large sections of the business community suggest that the Government will give serious consideration to this flagship Big Society
initiative.
Following vigorous promotion by Chamber President Charlie Elphicke MP and with Dame Vera Lynn among its many celebrity supporters, the Dover People’s Port campaign promises to be one of the most significant
developments in Dover’s long maritime history as the main UK passenger port for continental Europe.
The Chamber’s Chief Executive David Foley said: “After 400 hundred years of witnessing trade passing through Dover with few
advantages for our residents and businesses, at long last we now have the possibility of putting the ownership, benefits and future of the Port of Dover firmly in the hands of our local community.”
Tickets cost
£15 including lunch, a vegetarian option and plenty of time for networking. Booking is essential. To reserve your place or for more details, contact the Dover District Chamber of Commerce: tel: 01304 824955, email:
mail@doverchamber.co.uk.
Picture shows Neil Wiggins enjoying a quiet glass of wine at the Mayor Making event earlier in the year.
- PHIL
Again I must agree - 28,000 VOTING PAPERS SEND OUT ONLY 5000 MEMBERS OF THE DOVER PUBLIC TURNED OUT TO VOTE SO THAT 97.5% IS NOT RIGHT AND ON TOP OF THAT THE
OTHER 80,000 IN THE DISTRICT DID NOT VOTE AT ALL, SO THAT WAS NO VICTORY. - I'm surprised that you put that letter up from Alan Sencicle, PaulB.
First of all it
is supposed to be addressed just to the Executive of the Dover Society, although why they should become embroiled in this I don't know.
Secondly, I know Lorraine has worked hard in many aspects for Dover and written many articles
about Dover's history that are published in the Mercury, but and here's the rub, she was never actually nominated for a Mayor's Civic Award.
Whoever told her they had nominated her never actually put in a form, so the Town
Council never received, so she could never be nominated.
This could all end in tears and if it spreads, a number of people could end up with egg (or worse) on their face.
As an aside, what Phil and Paul (Scotchie) have said
about volunteers of all description, who give up so much of their time freely and don't actually want rcognition - they do it because they care more about what they're doing and less about getting recognition for
it.
Roger - vic,the other 80000 people couldnt be botherd to get of there arses and vote.so its a victory for those who
did. - VIC;'
Just a small word of advice(sure you will ignore but will post it anyway)
Whilst I concerns over both the peoples port proposal and that of the
D.H.B. your continued attack on one side, is both silly, and realy leaving yourself open to be attacked.
don't forget you sit on a numbrer of parish councils with not one person voting for you!!!!
the councils you
were elected on to were very low in turnout so maybe you should come off all those if thats your viewpoint.
I hope this will be taken as sound advice, and that challenging the decisions of the peoples port would be better than
support for the group - Brian the 80.000 did not get the option,the parish councils did not aske them if they would like to at the cost of over £2000 it would have taken to
much out of our funding,the Town councl get around £600,000 funding ayear,parishs about £60.000year.So you see again you was well out of order on your post.And your wording was not that good to. - Roger is right on that one to, and let us not forget the one sided letter Mrs Sencicle put about the officers of the town council to the local press afew weeks ago.
- Keith forget any advice you wish to give me ,I am doing very well thank you.
- Only a few larger Parishes
get £60,000/Alkham,Lydden ,Ringwold ,Guston etc well under £20,000.
Even Whitfield dont collect that sum.
River has one of the highests precepts . - There are a
lot of people in Dover doing voluntary work of all sorts, all with the intention of improving the town they love. They do this because they want to see a better Dover and not for cash rewards or the hope of getting an award. Even those
who would like some recognition realise that such things take time and that even nominations do not automatically lead to awards as lots of other things have to be taken into consideration.
There are also a great many people with
some great ideas about how to improve the town. Some of the ideas are good, some dreams and some differ greatly from other peoples ideas. For the most part they will listen to other peoples views and keep looking for what will work.
Again this is without payment or the desire for awards.
The one thing all of them have in common is a positive attitude towards Dover, the knowledge that this is a great town and is worth the effort to get improved. Dover needs
these people, people that will get together and share ideas, be prepared to do the spadework needed and work together to promote the town. It doesn't need the few that sit back, say "I am right" and ignore everyone else's
opinions.
Rather than worrying about awards (or cash) we should all be promoting the town for what it has and for its potential. The great views, the great people, the depth of history, the abundance of natural beauty and the
huge potential in being the gateway to Europe as well as to the rest of our own country. Dover does deserve the best and not just the best it can get. Let us celebrate Dover and all those who are Dover-serving rather than just those
who are Self-serving. - VIC;
All I can do is advise, and of course you have a choice whether or not you take that advice.
As afriend I don't think
it's in your interest to keep isolating yourself.
But okay i did try to help - have to hand it to vic, he makes king canute look like an amateur.
- Its good to see the coming together of these two Chambers for a Business Networking Lunch re the Ports Future, hope it is a very successful
event. - Police in South Kent are cracking down on thieves who are stripping metal from buildings and selling it on. This week officers
across Ashford, Folkestone and Dover have made eight arrests in the drive to reduce the crime that is driven by the rising price of metal.
Detail of the latest Dover related arrests....
Two men were
arrested after a van was stopped in Canon Woods Way, Kennington, Ashford, on Saturday afternoon (23 July 2011). The 27-year-old from Faversham and 26-year-old from Canterbury were arrested on suspicion of stealing £400 of copper piping
from B&Q on the White Cliffs Business Park in Dover just after midday on Saturday.
A 20-year-old Dover man was charged with the theft of scrap metal from the Flagship pub in Snargate Street, Dover, and was remanded to appear
before magistrates on Saturday (23 July 2011). He was arrested in Poulton Close, Dover, and charged on Friday (22 July 2011) after being arrested earlier in the week and released on bail (20 July 2011) after it was reported to police
that a man was acting suspiciously on a flat roof near the Flagship pub in Snargate Street, Dover.
As there has clearly been an upsurge in metal theft..here are some Crime Prevention suggestions.
1.Avoid leaving anything lying around that could be used to help a thief climb onto your roof.
2.Make sure all tools and machinery are stored securely, particularly if construction work is due to take place during
the summer holidays.
3.Consider using alternative materials to lead for any repairs - this reduces the risk of your premises becoming a target for thieves.
4.Lead can be coated in anti-climb paint. The paint does not degrade the
lead but makes it very messy and difficult for a thief to remove. The paint is non-drying and marks clothes and skin, often helping the police to identify offenders.
5.Silver paint can also be used to coat lead. This coating reduces
the value of the metal and thieves are less likely to steal it and sell it on.
6.Coloured lead is available on the market. This will allow the lead flashing to blend in with the building, making it more difficult to be seen by
thieves.
7.Security measures such as lighting, CCTV and forensic marking can also be used.
- You will have noticed the Police press releases at
the top of the page today. Must say that I am delighted to have their full co-operation now on Doverforum and they have agreed to henceforth send us in all their latest press releases. This will help them get their information out and of
course it will help all our readers and members to keep up to speed with whats going on in the locality.
We are also grateful of course to all the main players locally for the continual supply of tip top press release info coming
through. - certainly a major problem with metal thefts, rural churches in particular suffer badly because of their quiet location.
some handy tips there
about coloured lead and anti climb paint. - Alfie's Day Out.
Port Tug Boat takes Alfie on trip
of a lifetime.
Six-year-old Alfie Burns fulfilled his dream when he was invited with his mum, Sue to the Port of Dover to look at the tug boats moored at the Western Docks. Alfie, who attends Lympne Primary School
wrote a letter asking what he should do to become a tug boat driver.
Mum, Sue Carter said; “Alfie has wanted to be a tug boat driver after we took him for a trip down the Thames last year. He was really excited when I
told him that we were going to see a real tug boat.”
Andy Cornford, Port Operations Manager, Western Docks, welcomed Alfie and Sue aboard “DHB Dauntless” and said “We were delighted to respond to Alfie’s letter; the tug
boat crew were happy to pull out all the stops to make his visit a special one and an occasion both he and his family will always remember.”
Alfie’s visit started with a tour of the engine room followed by an inspection
of the galley, crew rest area and sleeping quarters. He was then taken up to the wheel house where Tug Master, Mark Temple gave him some training in how to pilot the vessel. Alfie was thrilled when Mark started the engines!
Mark, who has been working with one of six crews at the Port of Dover for nine years, told Alfie they were casting off from the pier for a short trip around the harbour. After 10 minutes Mark allowed Alfie to take over the
controls. He calmly and confidently steered the tug boat in all directions under Mark’s supervision and was even allowed to fire the water cannon.
On his return to the harbour, Alfie questioned the crew further about tug boats
and their uses. Mark told Alfie he was a natural at the controls. An exchange of gifts took place – each crew member received a doughnut from Alfie and in return they gave him a £2 coin for being such an excellent crew member.
Many thanks to Tricia Corkhill of DHB for the above story. Picture shows Andy Cornford with Alfie Burns.
- Good to see the Police
coming onboard Doverforum and joining a long list of people who send in press releases and information for the local community. - nice to see the lad enjoying
himself. - What a lovely picture of young Alfie Burns fulfilling his dream, a day he will not forget.
- I
find it worthy of note that the Dover People's Port lunch isn't being held in the port, which one would expect of a Port Trust, or in a hotel belonging to the port, of which there is one along the seafront.
Or is there another
port in Dover? - BID FOR ASSETS OF SEAFRANCE
Joint bid by DFDS and Louis Dreyfus Armateurs Group
DFDS and the French shipping Group Louis Dreyfus Armateurs
have today (26July) made a joint bid for certain assets of SeaFrance.
The bid is subject to certain
conditions including approval by the relevant competition authorities.
The bid is made in response to an announcement by the receiver appointed for SeaFrance requesting bids to be made by 26 July 2011.SeaFrance went into
receivership in June 2010.
If the bid is successful DFDS and Louis Dreyfus Armateurs will form a jointly owned Company with DFDS as the majority shareholder, to acquire the assets of SeaFrance. It is furthermore the intention
to transfer DFDS’ Dover –Dunkirk route and Louis Dreyfus Armateurs’ ferry shipping activities, LD Lines, to the joint company.
Louis Dreyfus Armateurs is a French shipping Group operating in several market segments, including
bulk, offshore and ferry shipping. The company’s ferry shipping activities, LD Lines, were established in 2003 and currently comprises four routes.
- Alex not
sure if I follow your logic there. The People's Port are not yet a trust port and have not as yet acquired any of the port assets..if indeed it will happen at all. So they dont have any requirement or remit to host their lunch in a
'hotel owned by the port'. The Port dont own any hotels as I understand it but are merely landlords.
Details of todays People's Port lunch now unlocked so the item has slipped slightly down the page.
Jan / Brian..yes a
nice story there about young Alfie. I hope one day he fulfills his dream of becoming a tugboat master. - good luck to young alfie.
re; the new leading
article i note that the bid is for "certain assets".
that could be read as purchasing one or two ferries and leaving the rest alone.
i would think that with danish seaways currently running their own cross channel service
it would lead to less capacity on the channel. - My Goodness! this is a busy Front page, you leave it for a minute and hey presto, the Police are on board, young Alfie
is steering a tug boat (well done Alfie) and DFDS and Louis Dreyfus Armateurs are bidding for Seafrance......... its all a happening........ great stuff. - The DFDS/LD bid for
Seafrance will be more about the berth space on the Dover Calais run than getting the Seafrance Ferries, look out P&O. - Paul McMullan -
AntiHero.
Dover's most famous face these days has just got to be local man Paul McMullan. Once again this week we saw him featured many times on national TV. I myself caught him in/on at least two major programmes. One was
the much heralded Dispatches last monday night and the other a much pushed documentary on thursday night. In that most recent one, the camera crew filmed his pub The Castle here in Dover, and indeed wait for it..they even filmed the real
Castle itself in that one, showing in brief interlude that something else goes on in Dover besides hacking.
The programmes were of course about the Murdochs and the hacking scandal. Even though the story is now running out of
juice, there is still a sting in it's tail...and there is still a welcome for Paul on all the TV channels. And with news running 24 hours a day there is plenty of demand.
Paul of course isn't presented as the good guy.
Nosireee! he is the arch villain, the shady seedy hacker in the grubby mac. He admits it and often says "I enjoyed my days on the News of the World because I was bringing to the people the stories they wanted to read".
The News
of the World is now dead and buried. Media and political armageddon fell on it from a great height and the Murdochs cast it with great tortured haste onto the flames. They, the Murdochs, now want to wash their hands and be rid of it's
memory for good. But there is always Paul McMullan to remind them. He said on Dispatches during the week that he had the tidy sum of £3.1 Million pounds at his disposal to bribe police officers and anyone else with useful information.
Somebody in the higher echelons gave him that budget but presumably not the squeeky clean holier-than-thou editors...no surely not!
The Murdochs are down, but maybe not quite out. But once Rupert fell off his chariot the
politicans leapt forward to stick the boot in with a venomous snivelling but unappealing glee. And as Greg Dyke one time DG of the BBC said on the same programme...where were they before??
"Its funny seeing politicians who havent
said boo to Murdoch for 20 years suddenly develop a backbone" said Greg with a wistful air. - i wish i had written that, paul mcm is the only one to come out of
this without the whiff of hypocricy hanging over him.
we have the crocodile tears from news international and the spineless politicians at last remembering that they are supposed to stand up against media
bullying.
meanwhile paul stands by his work and makes it clear that he will not do an about face when under pressure. - What an excellent piece of writing about
the bad boy turned publican, concise and very relevant.
Some of our posters should take lessons from you PaulB. - I agree it is a good piece of work, and a lot of truth
in it
jan; nice wave across the road the other day lol - Yes, I agree, an excellent piece of writing there and made all the more atmospheric with the black and
white pic of Paul McMullan. - The problem I have with Mr McMullan is that he sold his profession and his soul down the river for a quick buck and a story regardless of the
consequences for poor innocent victims.. He made his money and left the city behind but brought his gutter press following to Dover.
He doesn't appear to be remorseful and continues to make money from his immoral deeds by
constantly appearing on tv and spouting forth that it was ''common practice'' and ''rife'' among journalists to bug phones,hack computers and bribe police officers as if that makes it alright then.
I wonder what dirty
tricks he has left in his box...'' I passed off cheap chinese lager to unsuspecting dozy Dovorians'' or '' how I sold guided tours of the castle to gullible yanks'' who were later surprised to learn it was a grotty English pub
and not a medieval fortress'' - MAREK;
Your not wrong - Very good piece of writing on Paul McMullan, who
seems to be enjoying the lime light, sadly he also seems to have enjoyed getting the news to the public this way.
As for the politicians, thats human nature. - interesting comment jan, he does enjoy putting his view across to the public, however he openly admits to enjoying the success he has had when writing for the "news of the world".
consistency is the keyword for paul
mc. - Dover Town Council enjoyed a very successful day in Pencester Gardens on saturday when they brought a fine event to the
public. Animal Mania in the Park it was called. A shaggy doggy show with lots of owners taking part, and here is the real magic of Town Council, they managed to get the sun to shine brightly for the event. Who said Town Councils dont
have any real power... they clearly have the ear of the almighty in some matters.
A very good crowd turned out to enjoy the colourful proceedings. There were lots of different activities running in tandem, including Dover's
famous little boat race, run this year by the London Road Community Forum. Doverforum entered a fleet of.. ahem..sleek hulled beauties in this one, but we did not scoop the big prize. Still, there is always next year.
But back to
doggy matters. We caught up with our ever friendly Mayor Cllr Ronnie Philpott out there mingling amongst the people and here she is pictured left. She had earlier taken part in the showing and had won a scintillating 4th place
with her dog Remy..brilliant stuff indeed. Here she proudly displays both Remy and the green Rosette.
There is also an excellent thread in our forum section on this event called "double header on saturday" which has more
comments and pictures.
There was quite a collection of ex- mayors in and around the park. Spotted these two dignitaries chatting on the bridge. They were waiting to launch their
vessels in one of the races. I was hoping to capture them unawares incognito inflagrante ( will look up what that means later!)...but they spotted the camera. All these politicians have a built in radar totally designed to spot a camera
at a hundred paces. But there we are... nowhere or no-one is safe from the roving Doverforum cameras!lol On the left just peeping over the lovely little girl ( who is the little girl?) is Cllr Lyn Young and the tall smiling figure is
the elegant Cllr Diane Smallwood. Both former Mayors of Dover.
- Nice picture there of Ronnie and Remy with her Rosette,there were
certianly alot of owners and their dogs in the the park, i'm sure that there were some happy owners at the end of the day. - Dover
lifeboat crew go to aid of swimmer in difficulties at Folkestone.
The volunteer crew of Dover’s RNLI lifeboat had to break away from their Station’s Open Day on Saturday (30th) to rush to Folkestone when a man was
reported in difficulties in the water near Folkestone Harbour.
On receiving the request to launch from Dover Coastguard, the lifeboat crew quickly escorted the members of public who were touring the lifeboat to the safety of the
quayside before launching and making best speed to Folkestone. The Port of Dover Police RIB also offered assistance and made its way to the scene. Whilst both boats were proceeding updates were received from Dover Coastguard informing
them that a small boat had managed to take the man ashore. However, the condition of the casualty was not known.
On arrival off Sunny Sands, Folkestone the lifeboat crew immediately deployed the inflatable Y boat and two crew
trained in first aid went ashore to assist. The man was then assessed by a paramedic before being taken to hospital by ambulance.
Deputy Coxswain Jon Miell said: “This young man was very fortunate that he was
seen to be in difficulties and that a local boat was able to assist him and get him to shore.”
For anyone wanting to learn more about beach safety there is a whole section on the RNLI website devoted to advice for
visiting and enjoying our coasts and seas. www.rnli.org.uk/what_we_do/sea_and_beach_safety - Police in Dover
have been cracking down on anti-social behaviour
in the town and surrounding area.
On Tuesday (26 July 2011) a 39-year-old Dover man was spotted with alcohol in Cannon Street, Dover – a designated no alcohol
area. He tried to hide the can under his coat but was asked by police to give it up, which he did by throwing it on the ground. He began shouting and swearing so was reported for summons to appear in court at a later date (date not yet
known) in connection with a public order offence.
A 25-year-old Dover woman was stopped by police in the Ladywell car park after she shouted and swore at Dover neighbourhood officer PC Paul Tutthill in front of passers-by
(Thursday 21 July 2011). She refused to stop shouting when asked and has been reported for summons in connection with a public order offence and will appear in court at a later date.
Officers from Kent Police’s motorcycle
unit stopped two motorcyclists in Whitfield and seized their bikes following complaints that riders were causing a nuisance in the area.
The motorcyclists who were riding a mini-type of bike known as a “pit bike” were stopped in
Kinson Way, off Aspen Drive, (5 July 2011). The teenage boys had no insurance so the bikes were seized and they were reported for summons to court. Officers carry out regular patrols in the Dover area to check for motorcycles and other
vehicles being ridden illegally or causing a nuisance and these patrols will be continued throughout the summer.
Update 1230 1 August 2011: Police seized a motorcycle in Beech Drive, Elvington on Friday
afternoon (29 July 2011) as it was being ridden with no insurance.
Insp Guy Thompson said: “All these incidents cause a nuisance whether it is to people out and about in the town centre or, in the case
of the motorcyclists, trying to enjoy some peace and quiet at home. We will continue to take action against those intent on ignoring police warnings and breaking the law and where appropriate they will answer before the courts.”
If you are concerned about any policing issues in your community, please contact your local neighbourhood officer. Visit www.kent.police.uk and enter your postcode to get details of your neighbourhood
team.
- Police in Dover have been cracking down on anti-social behavior
in the town and surrounding area. What A crock there are no police on
the streets of Dover and when there are nothing gets done, they will tell you anything to look good,we have a pcso when she decides to come on this estate, were supposed to have community monthly meetings that fell through. I don't
think the senior officer at Dover gets out much - nice to hear of a crackdown on this sort of behaviour, long may it last.
let's hope the courts take a dim view
of it too. - Nice to see the police cracking down
I hope that the police(who im sure look in) will put pressure on the community safety unit at the council
offices to have a re think on the camera on the folkestone road to protect our tram shelter.
Having contacted my local cllr, and the unit, a house was identified to have a camera in it to look at the tram shelter and very close
by.
It would probably have helped to identify the culprits who cause the damage.
Sadly the community safety unit said no to the camera, which would have been one of many projects of education the local community was to get
itself involved in.
The decision by the community safety unit has rather deflated the community, and the damage will go on undetected.
sad time for all
- alan,our psco officer has been seconded to the town center for the entireaty of the summer holidays,if you give me a phone call i will give you her direct phone number.
- alan
there has been an increase in visible policing in town recently, as brian says your pcso is seen around the town centre. - For the first time
since moving to Dover 6 years ago we now actually know our local bobby (Paul Tutthill) and I have his mobile number so we don't have to go through the call centre in Maidstone. A very welcome change in policing which makes us feel more
secure. Paul is a good man and deserves all our support. - Really good to see the police are getting across their message here on the Forum, we the public need to know
they are getting results especially when it comes to these bikes, they are a problem all over dover.
Great picture of the lads enjoying themselves lets just hope safety was on their minds. - Excellent ever changing Front Page PaulB. I think that getting the 'official' line of thought from both government agencies and outside bodies is so important. It helps
stimulate debate and stops 'chinese' whispers. Hopefully leading to a more intelligent discussion and to a correct, reasoned and and popular final decision.
Well done all concerned at Dover
Forum. - everything seems to be happening at once, so much for it being dead august.
the way i see it as that d.h.b. and the people's port have already launched bids
that fit the criteria, cannot see that anything can be added.
the extension of the high speed service is more good news for east kent. - Sensational topical
newsworthy front page and all very positive news for Dover. Great news about the Deal/Sandwich high speed train which no doubt will enhance the economy of the south east and give lots of opportunity to the population at large.
Saw
the motor boat above myself yesterday, great shot by the way, there's always something for everyone going on at the seafront, exciting stuff, busy, busy,busy. - It gives on
the spot stories and press releases, and a forum that gives memebers an outlet to have their say,congrats to Doverforum for some great frontpages. - Thanks guys for the
comments..always good to hear the frontpage is going down well. Will have a new statement coming along shortly re the above Port situation from Paul Watkins, coming along in a few minutes in fact when I get it assembled. Paul Watkins is
a forumite extraordinaire and of course also the Leader of Dover District Council....in his other job!lol
Certainly a busy period and we thought August would be
quiet. - the last sentence in the statement from paul sums up the situation.
there must be no more delays in reaching a decision. - i do wish the bidders good luck
and hope they keep there promises whoever wins - I have to say DF keeps
getting better and more influential. As it should do - a great place for breaking news, local issues, and community support. It doesn't get much better than that. - 'August is
a wicked month' and certainly proving to be here on DF!!
For the benefit of some of us oldies, especially PaulB, the modern interpretation of wicked is Fantabulous lol!!!!!!! x - i must admit that i look on here first for events coming up and other local news, as do many other people who have no interest in being members but look in daily.
- I have revamped the page and added the DDC/Paul Watkins statement to the above top-of-page feature, so hopefully all
is a bit easier to follow and absorb.The top-of-page feature runs chronologically in reverse with the latest statements going to the top. - Massive Fire in
Dover!
Thick black smoke rising skywards this morning on huge scale and then falling on and across the town.
This is the not terribly good view from the seafront at 7.15..if anyone gets a better pic please send it in
to
dover7@msn.com always welcome, or if you are a member put one up by all means.
Have added this pic left and it shows Dover Grammar in the distance nestling under the smoke 'flight path'. The pic although from long distance gives some indication
of the scale.
- Quite dramatic photographs.The dark smoke indicates tyres or plastic material alight so could be
toxic. - they are dramatic, surpised the smoke disappeared so quickly, tyres tend to be one of the worst fires to put out.
- Gosh! what has happened to our summer? The pictures below were taken yesterday at the height of the summer holiday season, and what have we got...... a Force 8 Gale on the
channel crossing.
Hold on to your lunch!
Also we have more pictures of yesterdays
fire, coming up at the top of the page very soon. - great shots from ian, not sure that standing so close(as the chap in the picture) was wise though, at that
stage it would not have been known if the fumes were toxic. - some great pictures
- I took the top shot
Howard with my little Samsung. It was the only camera I had to hand as I was just about to photograph a cruise liner at approx 7.15am when I saw the whole thing behind me as it were.
It is of course taken from a long way off and
blimey you can even see the flagpole on top of Dover Grammar School for Boys...even at that range and its just a section of the original shot blown up too. Goes to show that some of these modern compact cameras can deliver...up to a
point anyway.
Huge thanks to reader Ian Palmer for the second picture. The figure in the landscape makes that shot. Shows the sheer scale. - theres lots of
talent within this forum
all these photos,
all the differing points of view
all the updates on whats on
all the news right up to date as it happens
and so much more
thanks paulb and
co - Surely that is Dover Grammar School for Boys .My son attended that school as does my Grandson .Dover College is off Folkestone road and Effingham Crescent /
- well spotted susan, it is the boys grammar school.
- Indeed it is Dover Grammar School for Boys..what was I
thinking. However changing it now has ruined the original page layout...arrrrgh! And sure yes Ive been in Dover College too and know it well.
Have changed it above and below. But thanks for pointing it out Sue otherwise i wouldnt
have noticed.
Keef much thanks for the comments below, and for the supporting comments of the other guys. I must say a great thanks goes to all the other players, particularly all the members who contribute every day, making the
whole thing buzz...and to all the team who do their daily bit for no reward. - Oh my! some very dynamic pictures there guys.
- And now here's a goodwill story..ideal for these dark days of rioting and cuts and so on...
DOCTORATE FOR FORMER DOVER
GRAMMAR PUPIL
Former Dover Grammar School pupil, Sian Prosser has graduated from the University of Sheffield as a Doctor of Philosophy in French.
Sian – who is the eldest daughter of Dover & Deal’s former MP,
Gwyn Prosser and his wife Rhoda – obtained her Phd in Medieval French and the Manuscripts of the Roman de Troie.
After leaving Dover Grammar School for Girls, Sian obtained a Master of Arts Degree in English Language and
French at the University of Glasgow followed by a further MA in Medieval Studies from the University of Glasgow .
She now holds an Academic Librarianship at Warwick University and lives in Leicester with her partner, Dr
Phillip Shaw who is a University Lecturer and next month she hopes to complete a further Masters Degree in Library & Information Studies at the University of London .
Photo attached of Dr Sian Prosser on graduation day with Mum
& Dad.
- Well done Sian.A lovely picture with a very proud Mum and Dad .People quite often forget polictians whether Mps or local councillors
have strong family ties .
Sian and her siblings are similiar ages to my children .
I to am proud of my daughter who climbed Snowdon on Saturday for the umpteenth time Louise raised over £900 fo the charity where she is a
Managing Director .Another old girl from our excellent Grammar School for girls - impressive stuff from sian, i couldn't even pronounce the subjects that she has been
successful in.
two very proud parents there. - Wow! love the two pictures above by PaulB and Ian Palmer, very dramatic indeed!
Also, what a lovely happy
photo of Sian Prosser and her proud parents Gwyn and Rhoda. A Huge well done to Sian on her truly great achievements and I wish her the very best of luck with her future Masters
Degree.
- Congratulations to Sian who i met many times when i was a cllr with mr prosser and used to have the odd beer.
The prosser family should be proud of
there daughter as i'm sure sian herself is of her achievments - Yes a goodwill story indeed, a very proud achivement indeed for Dr Sian Prosser, and a proud Mother and
Father. - Yes indeed huge congratulations to Sian. It is very tough to keep going through these long courses. Despite the impression that all students do is party party
party, in reality its not the case. Tough interim exams year in year out, tough finding the finance etc etc, so when and if they make it to the end its a great achievement.
Our future lies with these younger people coming
through.
So a great achievement there by Sian, and a doctorate too..wow! - that has to be the weirdest front page story yet.
the r.n.l.i. certainly have
to be adaptable, i cannot imagine them having specialist training in such a rescue.
great photos again. - What a story, Gripping Stuff!!! And what a Fantastic
photo showing Shallimah being led to shore. Those guys at RNLI and the Coastguard Rescue are certainly worth their weight in gold.
What a coincidence that the Admiral Lord Boyce happened to be there, Our Celebrity on the spot
Phototgrapher lol!
So pleased it had a happy ending with horse and rider reunited. - Well done to the Walmer RNLI inshore lifeboat crew, one of
their more unusual rescues. - Well done to the guys for this amazing rescue
- An amazing set of pictures of
the horse being rescued, just goes to show what very different jobs our lifeboat crews do, so glad horse and rider were ok.
And what luck lord Boyce was around with his camera,a story with a happy ending.
- a couple of shots fom the television, lord boyce and two stalwarts fom the lifeboats, just caught one name andy howlands on the right, maybe martin can fill us in?
the dover lifeboat is out on a call again right now, let's hope it is the usual happy ending. - What a heart-warming story about the horse rescue. Excellent work as always guys.
- Love the story of the sea-horse - well done guys and amazing that The
Lord Warden was in residence to witness and photograph it.
Well done everyone.
Roger - The Lord Warden had been kite flying and used the kite as a
marker for the Lifeboat to locate the horse, good thinking. Dover Lifeboat went out last night, does anyone know what the shout was? - i see the top two photos where used on
the local itv news programe last night. - Yes indeed guys this was a great story particularly as the horse survived. It had all the possibilities of being much worse, a
disaster, so it was an amazing rescue. It was on all the TV stations etc as Howard shows there in his latest hot off the wire pictures and no doubt it will be in the papers.
Yes Martin I saw the guys go out again last night, they
powered into the huge surf outside the harbour, spray everywhere, looking very spectacular. Hope it all went okay.
Havent heard anything further as of yet but might hear from our other Martin over at RNLI later, Martin Collins
that is. Very grateful to him for all the info.
Added: Brian yes indeed...we posted at the same time..almost. 
Parliament was recalled today to discuss the horrendous riot situation. The picture shows Prime Minister Cameron addressing The House earlier. He spoke of the fightback....
Just had this info through this minute from HMRC
, many thanks to them... may not affect us directly here in Dover and surrounds, but it is good and heartening to see all parts of the system rallying in support of those afflicted. Looks like this is part of the
fightback.
* *
HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) is offering to help those businesses and individuals affected by recent civil disturbances. Any South East residents with
businesses in areas affected by recent unrest may find this support useful.
HMRC help for South East customers affected by civil disorder
HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) has today
announced a single helpline number – 0845 366 1207 – to help South East businesses and individuals adversely affected by the recent civil disorder.
HMRC is determined to do all it can to help, and may be able to do this in
a variety of ways.
The dedicated Civil Disorder helpline is available to provide comprehensive advice and deal sympathetically with problems currently faced by businesses and individuals. In particular, HMRC will:
· agree payment schedules with those who are unable to pay their tax bills due to short-term financial difficulties; and
· discuss practical solutions where businesses and
individuals cannot meet their other obligations to HMRC – for instance, their records have been lost or destroyed in the disturbances.
In these circumstances, and whenever possible, HMRC will review any penalties imposed
and withhold additional surcharges that would normally be triggered by missed deadlines.
In short, if you want to talk about how the disorder has affected you in relation to the tax system (including tax credits), please contact
HMRC – we are here to help. There are a range of existing reliefs available and HMRC’s trained advisors will be happy to help.
- the story was on
meridian news tonight, top photo is of the owner/rider, bottom one is of the concerned and grateful parents.
- Well done adding those pictures Howard...
very interesting to see the
family there. The story had wings as they say, really good to see the family enjoying a happy ending. So many of these kinds of stories reach the news following tragic circumstances, this time we can all enjoy a good
outcome.
ADDED: The feature itself has now passed off from the top of the page into our ALL RECENT FEATURES section after playing a starring role all week. - And carrying on with the weather theme. The picture left shows the harbour in very windy conditions the day before yesterday. So windy was it that one of our illustrious tug boats was used all
day long to hold the Fred Olsen Cruise Liner to the pier. You can see it there in the picture left pressing into the rear of the Liner nose first.
The Ship went out later into the teeth of that gale and the passengers had to pay
for the privilege..oh dear! - nice atmospheric shot there, looks like an early morning shot but the leisure sailors don't normally start that early as far as i
know. - Howard yes you are probably right about the yachting fraternity, in that they dont like to start too early, the picture was in fact taken about mid day as I
remember under a high bright watery sun. This produces that sparkling effect on the sea. You need a very high shutter speed on your camera though as its blindingly
bright. - Can some one please sort out the pages on the forum there are no comment boxes and pages are doubling up half way down the page with the same post but
offset - Alan as far as I can tell there is nothing wrong with the forum. All is fully functioning and working fine. Im not seeing any problem at all.
You have
to log in to see all the comment boxes but apart from that necessity.. I cant see any problem. So it may be your own computer. However if anyone else is experiencing problems please let us know. A wider view would give us more of an
idea. If nobody else is experiencing difficulty then it might be your own computer Alan. - Oh! what a picture, what a photograph, I love the sparkle, like a sea of
diamonds, wishfull thinking! Reminds me of the old GAF film you used to use Paul, it had that grainy effect.
The sea has been very rough all week. On Monday last the Aida was delayed for up to three hours getting into Dover,
arriving just before nine instead of 6am.The tug boats were kept very busy indeed. - Last night, upon returning from the pub, I was surprised
to find an additional light in the harbour. A red light. So tall.. that it was clearly there to warn low flying aircraft. I assume.
Today you can see it, its one of the tallest masts you will ever see. I didnt get down there to
have a look but I guess its some kind of impressive racing yacht, perhaps heading for Fastnet or similar, and came in here to Dover for a bit of shelter from the headwind. Its not only in economics that we are currently feeling the
strong headwind of fate! We have it in the Channel too....as ColetteB mentions below there.
But yes indeed it has a red light at the tip top of the mast...see the scale in relation to the other buildings.
Yes Colette Gaf 500
was the arty farty film of choice back in the arty farty seventies. It was generally used in advertising when a certain effect was sought....for romantic perfume shots and so on. It didnt sell to the main stream market and as a
consequence I think Gaf went out of business in the end..if Im remembering right. - PaulB and Alan, no problem at all with the forum for me.
- no problem here either.
- PaulB, The site looks good, no problems here.
Gaf 500?
I have read of someone
who has rediscovered the grainy joy with his iPhone camera. Little things...and all that. :)
- PAULB
As one who is a regular
usr of the computer doctor lol
i can tell you i have no problems on the forum front
keep up the good work boys and girls - Thanks guys for the feedback. It usually
works the opposite way. Soon as there are problems I hear about it very fast. I havent heard anything negative from anyone else across the board..So I think Im safe in saying that we have no problems. Although ..ermmm ..as always, you
have to touch a large piece of wood when you say stuff like that so as not to tempt fate. - Local Arrests:
Two boys have been arrested after a spate of damage and vandalism at Dover Grammar School for Boys.
The boys were found inside the Astor Avenue school on Friday (5 August 2011) whilst a community cricket
match was taking place in the grounds.
The Dover boys, aged 15 and 14, (not pupils at the school) were interviewed and have admitted a string of offences at the school.
In June they sprayed blue paint taken from the
school onto the combined cadet force building. They then returned at the end of July and forced their way into the cadet building, spraying paint and letting off a fire extinguisher.
They have also damaged doors to the school gym
and pulled down CCTV cameras on the school buildings.
The total cost of the damage is being assessed whilst the boys are on police bail until 2 September 2011.
Chief Inspector Ken Elmes said: “These
boys have caused a considerable amount of damage to the school. It has been vandalism and they just seem to have been intent on causing a nuisance.
“On top of the difficulties their behaviour has caused the school they have also
set off alarms and fire extinguishers requiring emergency services to attend.”
- Port of Dover
achieves further reduction in carbon emissions.
The Port of Dover continues to lead the way in port environmental management by maintaining total commitment to reducing the impact of one of the world’s busiest
ports on the local environment.
Having been awarded the Carbon Trust Standard last year for reducing its carbon emissions by an impressive 13.2%, the Port of Dover has not rested on its laurels, and, after the first 6 months of
2011 it is on target to reduce these by a further 7% this year.
With important savings being made in water, heating oil and electricity consumption, the Port is determined to minimise its carbon footprint.
Bob Goldfield,
Chief Executive said;
“Operating one of the world’s busiest ferry ports alongside the local community requires us to make even more of a commitment to ensuring that the Port’s impact on its surroundings is properly
addressed. We are doing just that, and such an achievement on the back of being awarded the prized Carbon Trust Standard is testament to the expertise and ongoing commitment we have in this field.”
- It's odd that you mention a large masted sailing vessel PaulB, as I too saw a massive boat with a 100ft long hull, painted gun-metal grey with an
enormous black mast in Portland on Saturday which sailed off in the early hours yesterday morning, I called it the 'Stealth', very strange. - Kent Police is again using its three-strikes system to combat anti-social behaviour in Dover, Deal and Sandwich town centres.
The system, which has been successful in previous
years, is operated in partnership with town centre businesses. If a person is arrested for a drink-related offence a yellow card is issued; further arrests within 12 months for a similar offence result in a red card and a ban from
entering premises that sell alcohol.
Since the start of the Kent Police Stay Safe summer campaign on 4 July, 15 yellow cards have been issued including one to a 14-year-old girl. The oldest person to received one is a man aged 62
and those receiving them have been from Dover, Deal, Sandwich and two from Ashford.
Three red cards have been issued to a 52-year-old man of no fixed address and two women from Dover aged 25 and 47.
Sergeant Chris Gurney
of the Dover and Deal neighbourhood police team explained: “We want everyone to enjoy socialising in a safe town centre environment. But there are a few who spoil it for others and we shall take action against them.
Being arrested for drink-fuelled, silly behaviour can affect lives for a long time to come.
“If someone persists in nuisance behaviour they could find themselves in court as the Community Safety Unit will look at asking
magistrates to impose an anti-social behaviour order.”
Patrolling in Dover and Deal has been increased during the summer months as part of the Stay Safe campaign which continues until the beginning of September. As well
as reducing alcohol-fuelled disorder the campaign focuses on reducing burglary, theft in town centres and theft from cars and vans.
- That could be the very
one Barry W-S. never got a chance to see it up close myself but would have liked to...not only didnt see it up close but really didnt see it at all, other than its red lit mast towering over everything. Turned around and it was gone. Had
a mast that went up into the stratosphere...well..Im exagerating but you get my drift. As the Fastnet race is on at the moment or just started I put 2 and 2 together. - thanks to kent police for keeping us up to speed with things happening around the town.
quite extraordinary that a 62 year old misbehaves to the extent of getting a yellow card.
surprised by the grammar school
thing, i can imagine someone unruly trashing their own school, not someone else's though. - And who was the lady who spotted the boys at the Grammar School?
None
other than Alison Beaumont.
- Yes howard its good to have Kent Police onboard the infomation they are giving us is very
helpfull, and its getting that message out to the public at large.
Lovely picture of the Queen Mary in the evening sun elegantly sailing up the channel.
- Having the police keeping us up to date makes me believe they really are more interested in the community than before.
Well done to them and Alison. 
Reader Brian Cuff sent in the pictures above, he just had access to his mobile
phone but captured the outdoor screening event in the River Recreation Ground. Film being shown was ET. Roughly about 100 people turned up to watch according to Brian. But it did get very cold as the evening wore on. Some summer eh! It
looks as if some may have drifted away before the end.
There is also a thread about this event in our Forum section.
Many thanks Brian.
ps: I had to force the pic on the right a wee bit in order to get it to
reproduce.- Yes Jan it is good that the police are sending us in infomation about what happens in our communities, we have worked long and hard for them to do so,
because at one time they would not come anywhere near the Forum, but i think now they realize that we reach out to alot of people and if they want the help of people, they have to be more open and get onboard.
PaulB ship sailing
in and the sea is like a millpond wouldnt you say.
- Elaine Moat .
Im useful for some things - Many thanks Sue - you're a star for sure! Will change the feature now. Great the way everyone rallies around. Thanks again.
- Alison is the Community
warden in my Council area and I know she looks in on here often,she is brilliant and I have great pleasure in working with her.We meet often to discuss things and I believe she is Dover's number 1
C.W - I hope Paul you will be at The Merchant Navy Day 2nd September .DDC and Merchant Navy event
- start a thread on
the forum on that please susan, then remind us a day or two before.
thanks for the name of the lady in mark's, always see her in there organising things. - Yes
will be there Sue all being well...I do have trouble remembering the various places Im supposed to be at, but thats a biggie so Im sure to remember that one...Im sure you will be wearing one of your delectable hats.
Well said John
there. - Paul I will be wearing one of my hats .I have chosen the Hymns this year .
and you will see a few changes to the event .Its us womin you know - And what a very jolly time it was this morning at the M&S 100th year celebration in Dover town. Our Mayor done us proud with a very interesting and informative speech, the staff
and management were all very accommodating. The rather lovely shade of apple green was the colour of the day, with M&S staff wearing their green sashes, our Mayor, Ronnie, wearing her rather fetching green jacket and the luscious yummy
green cake which tasted delicious.
Well done Marks and Spencer, long may you remain in Dover, here's to the next 100 years!!!!!!!
Sue, Sept 2nd now in the diary lest PaulB
forgets. - Well done M & S.
Shame I couldn't get down there today, but hope it went well. Photos tell a good
story.
Roger - well done to M & S for it's survival in the town
Here is an extra picture from the M&S 100 Year Celebration yesterday and it shows Mayor Ronnie Philpott chatting with ColetteB from Doverforum. They know each other well but golly ColetteB could 'chat for England'..or perhaps that
should be 'chat for Ireland'. But the two of them always chat away in fine style. Ronnie is enjoying her role as Mayor, she likes getting out and about meeting the people of Dover.
A bit about Marks and Spencer: As a total new
entity Marks and Spencer began life in Leeds in 1884 when Jewish immigrant Michael Marks set up a marketstall in Kirkgate Market. He expanded slowly and surely. In time more marketstalls followed which enjoyed considerable success. He
was joined after 10 years by Tom Spencer and they began their famous 'Penny Bazaar' stores which were, as we know today, a huge success. Mainly because they introduced a new way of open aisle shopping...and the rest as they say.. is
history. Eventually the company reached Dover 100 years ago. And delighted we were to see them then, and delighted we are to still to have them here today.
- Lol! PaulB, I think you will find that I can chat for both countries simultaneously, how's that for talent!
- Congratulations M & S! It's wonderful to see such a
well established name like Marks and Spencer has stayed in Dover throughout the years, long may they continue. - The Marks & Spencer feature has now moved to
our archive called ALL RECENT FEATURES. You can find this on the menu left. Great archives of stuff in there. New items coming here shortly. - Interesting update re busiest day....
Record traffic through Port of Dover
on the busiest day of the year!
The Port of Dover can report that last weekend saw the
busiest day of the year with over 22,000 cars passing through the UK’s busiest ferry port or to put it another way, that is 15 cars every minute of the day and night. In spite of predictions that Saturday 23 July was to be
the busiest day of the year for travel, coinciding with the start of the school holidays, the number of cars through the Port last Saturday 14 August, surpassed those recorded on 23 July by 2,000.
Over the past decade,
since statistics have been logged, the majority of Saturdays from late July through end of August show over 20,000 vehicles passing through the Port.
Robin Dodridge, Director of Corporate Operations said:
“We are
delighted that in spite of the economic climate, holidaymakers are still choosing to travel to and from the Continent via the Port of Dover. This is certainly reflected in the record numbers last weekend. The Port’s staff did a great
job to make sure everything worked smoothly for our customers”
- ENTERPRISE ZONE –
MAJOR NEWS
WELCOMED ON PFIZER
Dover District Council is welcoming major news that the Government has selected the Pfizer site at Sandwich as one of the new Enterprise Zones.
The announcement was made by Chancellor of the
Exchequer George Osborne during a special visit to Sandwich yesterday. The Enterprise Zone package for Discovery Park will encourage business and investment, with simplified planning rules and millions of pounds in tax breaks to promote
growth.
This complements news on investment to strengthen flood defences for Sandwich town and Discovery Park, to increase flood protection to the area.
The announcement of new Enterprise Zones was made after Local
Enterprise Partnerships across the country put forward locations they believed had the potential to deliver jobs and growth. The Kent, Essex and East Sussex LEP selected the Pfizer site at Sandwich as its first choice for Enterprise Zone
status.
Cllr Paul Watkins, Leader of Dover District Council, said: “This is a significant national designation. We are very pleased that the Government has selected Discovery Park as one of the new Enterprise Zones, and
that there has been a collective agreement on flood protection measures in the Sandwich area. This will bring a whole range of excellent opportunities for the future of the area. We will work with Pfizer and interested parties in
developing proposals for the Local Development Order, which will help to provide greater flexibility and to simplify the planning processes.
“We now look forward to a successful outcome to the Regional Growth Fund submissions made
by KCC, and for development at Betteshanger, which would complement this excellent news. These would provide additional business support and further opportunities for growth in East Kent.”
- ends -
Picture shows Paul
Watkins.
NOISE ACTION BENEFITS COMMUNITIES
Communities in the area are set to benefit from a sound initiative
for the disposal of a number of items of seized audio equipment by Dover District Council.
To prevent nuisance to residents, the Environmental Enforcement and Protection Department has the authority to seize noise-making equipment
from persistent offenders. If the equipment is not reclaimed within six months it becomes forfeit and may be disposed of as the local authority sees fit. Rather than destroy the equipment, DDC has donated a number of items to Kent County
Council for local Youth Clubs.
Cllr Pat Heath, DDC Cabinet Member for Health, Well-being and Public Protection said: “Seizure of noise equipment is not taken lightly by officers. However, when
people listen to music, they do need to make sure this does not interfere with the lives of nearby residents. Noise pollution can be very disruptive causing increased stress, raised blood pressure and cardiovascular problems, and we
shall continue to take such action in extreme cases. We hope this sends a message to people who feel they have a right to play music as loud as they like.
“We were very pleased to be able to donate this equipment for community
use, and it is great to see seized equipment will go to good use at Kent Youth Clubs rather than be needlessly disposed of in landfill.”
- ends -- howard
i suspect i know your next posting on here
about the loud music in clarendons??? - funnily enough keith no problems recently from music, the noise
that drives us all up the wall comes from one car that pulls up two doors away and goes beserk with the horn.
very time that i or a neighbour go out the car is driven away at speed. - so frustrating howard i do understand
- howard,is the car driver on a wind up,playing loud music then buggering
of when he/she gets atension. - no music brian just rampant honking like a mini cab driver on speed.
- howard,one cure get a desent set of wire cutters and do some pruning around the engine conpartment.
- Do you know this man?
Kent Police is taking the unusual step of releasing a photograph of a man whom officers are trying to identify.
The man walked into the Minor Injury Unit within Victoria Hospital at Deal on Thursday 18 August suffering
head pains and amnesia. He was subsequently transferred to the Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother (QEQM) Hospital in Margate.
He is described as having an English accent and is in his late 50's to early 60's. He has a large build
and was wearing black Wrangler jeans, a white T-shirt and patterned sweatshirt at the time. He also had a navy blue walker's coat and was wearing beige walking boots.
In addition, the man had sunglasses, a walking stick and
cigarettes. He seemed clean and tidy and it doesn't appear that he's been sleeping rough for any length of time.
The man says he doesn't have any memory of himself, his family, home or any other personal details. He claims he
woke up on the beach at Deal on 17 August and asked for directions to the hospital. However, he doesn't have any obvious injuries.
Details of the man have been circulated to all police forces but it doesn't appear that he's
been reported missing. Information has also been provided to various agencies in East Kent, like the NHS, but so far nothing has led to the man's identity.
If anyone recognises the man from the photograph, or has any information
that they think would be useful, Kent Police would very much like to hear from them. Please contact Kent Police on 01622 690 690 or Detective Sergeant Shaun Creed on 01303 289068.
- This fine sailing ship is nestling in the harbour as we write. Picture just taken a few minutes ago. It's a familiar
visitor called The Morgenstar and we have featured it previously. I remember our much missed departed friend Colin Pritchard took a great and very colourful shot of it one time.. in glorious sunshine.
This pic alas taken through
the gloom and doom...
but thought we should show it in case anyone wants to pop along and see it.
EDIT:has now departed. 
Gay Paree!
Yours truly, the intrepid traveller.. not, is just back from a trip with en famille to the one and only Paris. We took the Eurostar from Ashford, that 'dead and alive hole' as one fellow passenger described
it..and headed south at the rumoured 300 km per hour. It didnt feel that fast, more like a trundle, more like a steady canter, so rumours of 300 km per h are I suspect greatly exagerated. Both ways the train was a bit scruffy. Boarding
in Ashford there are people already on the train so fair enough..but when we boarded in Paris on a supposedly fresh and virginal train, there were papers on the floor and magazines strewn hither and tither. Its a far cry from its early
years when the customer was king. Now the monopoly factor has kicked in, and the customer is just a seat filling commodity.
I hadnt been for several years. Back when the service started I went many times. Those days when the train
stopped at a station the stewardesses/hostesses stepped out of the carriage to greet you in fine airline style. Alas that doesnt happen anymore. Where did that feature go?
Although it must be said that in those days I went
first class only, in appropriate champagne socialist style!! Nowadays alas being a retired soul...Im back in steerage class in coach 18, yes the one bringing up the rear of the train. Still it gets you there and back in efficient enough
manner I suppose.
The train was full to capacity in both directions, there wasnt an empty seat available, and even in coach 18 the trip costs more than the four-star hotel in Paris for several days. Surely something of an
imbalance. More competition needed.
There was talk recently of the German Ice Train coming through the tunnel or maybe even the TGV, let's hope that it all happens sooner rather than later. A bit of competition on that particular
line will ruffle up the situation and put the customer back as king. As it is you can cut the complacency in the monopoly system with a knife.
And now the alternative...see the following press release just in
from SEAFRANCE.
Bargain Bank Holiday crossings
....still available with SeaFrance.
Fares from just £30 each way for a car and up to nine
passengers
With the August Bank Holiday weekend almost upon us, SeaFrance Dover-Calais Ferries has confirmed it still has any duration crossings available from just £30 each way for a car and up to nine passengers over
the Bank Holiday period. This means family groups can get away for less than £7 per person return when travelling with a full car.
These great value fares are available on most Dover to Calais sailings throughout the Bank Holiday
weekend whilst tickets last. The best fares can be booked online at www.seafrance.com but bargain hunters are advised to book soon as availability is limited.
SeaFrance operates up to 30 daily car ferry crossings on the
Dover-Calais route. Fares for a car and up to nine passengers start from just £30 each way (£60 return) online for any duration and from £22 return for a day trip.
For more information or to book your crossing visit
www.seafrance.com or call 0871 22 22 500
- not surprised to hear that about eurostar other people have told me the same.
that surprised me
about the paris bit, surely they must have people to do the clearing up before the train sets off again?
this is where the ferries score, the vacuum cleaners are out like a shot once people have disembarked and everything is
"shipshape" before the next lot board. - Indeed PaulB, the mighty Eurostar was a bit of a let down this time around. Although packed to capacity, it was rather
untidy and indeed quite slow but the end result, that wonderful city of Paris makes it all worthwhile. Some competition would I'm sure shake them up somewhat. Still, its a great way to get to Gay Paree even if a tad too expensive these
days. We shure had one hell of a weekend and as Briony said it was Awesome!!!!!! - Big Weekend ..But....
There is a distinct possibility of strike action on Eurotunnel this weekend, which is possibly the biggest holiday weekend of the year. The strike is scheduled to take place from saturday. French unions are asking for an 8% payrise which
isnt apparently forthcoming...so strike action is on the cards. Our ferry companies here in Dover are preparing for the inevitable increase in traffic and all three companies have issued the following statements which are shown below the
picture......
Ah yes indeed... it is the last throw of the holiday dice for many. The picture left gives you the idea as we show a glut of camper vans on the seafront last night wednesday and no doubt there will be even more
tonight, all searching here and there for parking spaces. The camper van is the litmus test, the hi-visual barometer of holiday movement.
And now the statements from our Ferry companies...
P&O: P&O Ferries is laying on extra Dover - Calais sailings over the Bank Holiday weekend in response to threatened industrial action at Eurotunnel.
Tunnel tourist passengers are advised to re-book
with P&O Ferries so that they have a ferry reservation, rather than just turning up at Dover or Calais. The company has capacity on sailings throughout the weekend, particularly on departures at off-peak periods during the night or early
morning sailings and will offer additional sailings at night when some of its ships are normally laid up.
Passengers travelling over the Bank Holiday weekend are urged to use the M2/A2 route into Dover to avoid anticipated lorry
queues on the M20/A20.
The P&O Ferries website for information and reservations is www.POferries.com and the telephone number for the call centre is 08716 646464.
* *
DFDS:
DFDS Seaways (formerly Norfolkline) Dover – France ferries is operating to schedule with limited space currently available for additional car passengers looking to return to the UK this bank holiday weekend.
All car
passengers looking to avoid the strike action threatening the Eurotunnel service are advised to call DFDS Seaways as soon as possible to secure their crossing as capacity is limited this weekend - the busiest time of the year for people
returning to the UK after their summer holidays.
DFDS Seaways sails between Dover and Dunkirk, which is situated in the North of France, with easy access from the main European arterial roads. At only 20 miles east of Calais,
Dunkirk is an ideal departure point from France and the Continent, and is a lot less congested than Calais.
Please note that DFDS Seaways does not carry foot passengers on its Dover - France route.
For more information
about the DFDS Seaways Dover – France ferry route or to find out the latest sailing times and book tickets, please visit www.dfdsseaways.co.uk or telephone 0871 574 7241. Terms and conditions apply and are available on the
website.
* *
SEAFRANCE: In view of the planned strike action from Eurotunnel employees this Bank Holiday weekend, SeaFrance currently has space available on all
sailings throughout the weekend to and from Dover and Calais. Passengers are advised to book as soon as possible as the company is already seeing an increase in bookings for the weekend.
SeaFrance advises customers who have booked
a crossing this weekend to use the M2/A2 route to the Port of Dover to avoid potential delays as a result of the Eurotunnel strike action.
SeaFrance operates up to 30 daily car ferry crossings on the Dover-Calais route. Fares
for a car and up to nine passengers start from just £30 each way (£60 return) online for any duration and from £22 return for a day trip. For more information or to book your crossing visit www.seafrance.com or call 0871 22 22 500
- you have to hand it to our ferry companies, they are always flexible and come up with the goods when the pressure is on.
no doubt the port and its
staff will do their usual excellent job in making everything run smoothly in the event of a strike. - Port of Dover braces
itself for busy Bank Holiday weekend.
(See also the posts immediately below re Eurotunnel Strike etc )
The Port of Dover is standing by to handle the high volumes of traffic anticipated this Bank Holiday weekend
which is always traditionally a busy weekend with families taking advantage of a last long weekend of summer and returning from their summer holidays on the Continent.
With the anticipated strike by Eurotunnel staff in France, the
Port of Dover is expecting to handle significantly more passengers over the holiday period.
Contingency plans are in hand to make sure that all traffic transiting the Port of Dover is handled efficiently and safely at all times
and staff with be working especially hard to ensure that everything runs smoothly.
Port of Dover General Manager, Port Operations, Kevin Richardson, says: “We advise passengers to book in advance
with ferry operators to avoid disappointment and to allow extra time to get to the Port. We also advise passengers to check with their ferry operator before travelling.”
Provision of extra shipping capacity has been put
in place by both P&O Ferries and SeaFrance who will be laying on additional sailings from Dover to Calais over the Bank Holiday weekend in response to the threatened industrial action at Eurotunnel.
Passengers travelling this
weekend are urged to use the M2/A2 route into Dover to avoid anticipated lorry queues on the M20/A20, particularly at the approach to the Roundhill Tunnels.
Picture shows the sun rising over The Port thursday
morning. Even at this early hour trucks can be seen moving across the dawn, trundling ever onwards towards their destination. We never sleep.
- Hi
Paul, I used to run up to Paris from London on a small coaster called "Scheldt". Here is a picture of her near Notre Dame.
Not my picture but thanks to whoever took it.
- Great little story there Alec..that's your boat passing Notre Dame. ..well I never. The picture looks like a postcard. I wanted to get further down to get that view from
that particular bridge, as it makes a great picture, but I never made it. Twas too too hot in Paris so was limited in the amount of gadding about I could do, but its fab there. Delighted you posted that. Good to see
it. - didn't catch this chaps name, a top man at p & o speaking from the travel centre earlier on local news.
looks likes it is all systems go.
Not sure who that chap is either Howard but good to see all systems ready. My feeling is
though that the big rush hasnt happened..as of yet anyway. Judging by the hotel carpark, a good barometer, often very full in high octane times, not full at all this time..and the volume of cars heading towards the Port seems lower.
Check out the picture left which was taken on the dot of 8am this morning. Not hectic is it.
Perhaps the ghastly weather, the strong Euro, the talk of eurotunnel strike action, the prospect of snarl ups on the road approaches etc
etc has just put people off making the effort. There is only so much the aggravated traveller can take!- Further to the earlier post which shows a deserted port
entrance at 8am, now good to report that traffic has indeed picked up to a good steady influx. - note the time of your post paul, i took this shot at about the same
time from de bradelie, the trucks on snargate street were bumper to bumper.
- Judging by the traffic jam at the Eastern
Docks at 8.45 this morning, I would venture that the port and ferry operators were certainly NOT ready! - The three DFDS ships are running throughout the summer without
the usual saturday night layovers. They have been jam packed with tourist traffic for umpteen weeks. Presume this is because people are holidaying closer to home in these straightened times. Believe this is the end of the hols now and
everybody is on the way home. - great picture there, just one lone cyclist taking a chance that the heavens will not open again.
- The man's name is Kevin Richardson Howard nice man worked his way up from the bottom.
- Glad you enjoyed the picture
chaps which has now been replaced above. It looks like the whole weekend passed off smoothly for our travelling public, all traffic seemed to flow through steadily and with some tranquility...at least here in Dover.
But yes the
picture mentioned has been replaced by the cutting sent in by Reg above...which tells the story of the limbless guys in the Fastnet Race. Terrific stuff indeed. A great achievement. Many thanks to Reg for that one..and a huge well done
to Reg's son Jason and to all the guys involved. - great stuff from jason and the chaps, a real test of endurance there.
- Congratulations to them - a fantastic achievement.
My Dad was a member of BLESMA up until he died some years
ago.
Roger - A Big Well Done to The Magnificent 14! The crew of the Spirit of Juno have really raised the awareness of the charity's aims. The Fastnet is a
very difficult course which can be as we know from the not to distant past, life threatening, 44th Wow! - well done jason and all
involved - That is a great piece of news, so well done to Jason and all the crew and to come in 44th is a brillant achievement.
- Glanced out my window and saw this media kerfuffle going on about mid day today. It was taking place just outside the Premier Travel Inn on
the seafront. I couldnt swear to it but it looks like the latest channel swimming hero Roger Allsopp who set a world record for the oldest ever channel swimmer yesterday...he is a sprightly young thing of 70 and he did the feat in
17hours and 51 minutes. A great fuss was being made of him by the media. There is a good chance there will be more detail on the local TV news programmes tonight. It looks like he is being presented with an award in the
picture.
Its a fair ol' way as you can see....and very wet and cold these days. Yours truly could of course have done the swim in.. ahem cough, half the time..but these
days am lazily tempted just to use the Ferry.
Seriously though, a very well done to Roger Allsopp. He gives hope to us all. - yes it was the chap indeed,
twas on the lunch time local news, also given his certificate as well. - Oh yes well done to Roger Allsopp apparently he has overtaken,one of film star Matt Damons relatives to
hold the title of oldest person to swim the channel.
Gosh PaulB remember the picture of Deippe we needed our thermals that evening,but a great place to vist. - I caught
this on the news tonight, he was presented the award by a representative of the 'Guinness Book of Records', he said that he aches all over but should be feeling a little better tomorrow, (if it was me I'm sure I'd feel worse). I
believe he also ran the Marathon. Well Done Roger! - i have only seen one incident involving a few youngsters pictures of which i posted on the main forum.
seems that
the message has rather surprisingly got through. - also you only have to see evidence to see the effects, the teenager in thanet who dived into some water on the
seafront only to find the water too shallow, now a cripple in a wheelchair. - The poor summer has contributed to the lack of tombstoners this year, there was a group on the
POW Pier last week but the shivering obviously outweighed the pleasure as they did not stay long - Picture shows the sun rising this morning
with an autumnal look. Can you believe it..it looks like its going to be a good day, a summers day...even though its now autumn. We had to wait a long time.
As this is Merchant Navy Day its good to have nice weather. There are
ceremonies at the Town Hall and at the seafront statue. The statue situated at the front of the Gateway. Pop along if you're free.
10.30 Town Hall
12.30
Seafront - Paul, I have always followed the traditional dates for the season changes. The last day of summer has always been at the autumn equinox, the 21st or 22nd
of september. Holidays might be over and the children back to school soon but for me it is still summer. ( even though the weather might say otherwise). Lovelly photo, keep them coming. I especially like to see the seagulls over the
cliffs. None around here so far from the sea. - It's good to see and hear that there have not been any serious tombstoning accidents, obviously the campaign is
working. - Yes the tombstoning campaign seems to be working. The sad news stories about some horrific injuries also rammed the message home...dont do it! I used to see
young guys jumping from the roof of the central seafront shelter..taking a run at it to clear the pavement and railings below and the rocks below that. Oh dear! that was hard to watch.
Yes indeed Andy you are probably right. The
guys on the BBC weather said it was the last day of summer just a couple of days ago, so I went along with that...they went with the last day of august. Yes will keep the pix coming, glad you like them. Good season coming up for
sunrises. - Good ceremony on the seafront yesterday, the full picture spread now showing above..and as ever it was conducted very
well indeed by Rev David Ridley pictured left. I dont know if I am imagining it but the turnout seems to be getting smaller, which is a pity...due in some extent of course to the obvious reasons.
It would be good to see even more
people come as it is a very nice event, particularly so in the gorgeous sunshine of yesterday. I remember the day of the statue unveiling and there was a huge turnout with rows of seats and so on. Good day that one.
There is also
a thread in the forum section. - The picture of the Rev Ridley and those young cadets sums it up for me .
- Visiting today for the first time is the Costa Pacifica. At 114,500 grt, and according to my Boy's Own Book of Big Things, this makes her the largest vessel to have visited Dover (although
Celebrity's Constellaton is longer). If he design looks familiar she's the same class of ship as the Carnival Splendor which held her naming ceremony here in 2008.
In the background is today's other visitor, the exquisite
Seabourn Sojourn.
(EDIT:See also the thread in our Forum.) - great photos there of a poignant occasion.
- It was lovely to see the veterans turn out as always, they get fewer each year sadly, but the sun shone and it was moving to be there to support.
Some really nice pictures
to show yesterdays ceromeny. - Why has Nigel got a strange hat?
- Wow, calculating that any veteran of ww2 must have been born in 1929-30 to qualify to serve in active service during the last year of the war 1945. Means that the youngest a veteran that entered as a 15yr old(lied about age)
must be at least 81 yrs old now. They look great for their age. - Hope this pic reproduces clearly so generally we can see what the ceremony
was about. One in Three merchant navy personnel did not return..very sad indeed and for years their efforts were somewhat overlooked.
Thats quite a casualty total there. This is the base of the monument on Dover
Seafront.
Yes indeed Marek all the guys are older now but they put some of the rest of us to shame.
The figures are dwindling but hopefully others will come along in future to remember them.
* *
Ah Yes Terry thats like one of those thought boxes we used to see in the comics all those years ago... Nigel clearly thinking about getting the parking fines in for DDC. Was good to see the chiripy Nigel the other day, only saw
him from a distance, we didnt get a chance to have a chat. - More pictures on the Merchant Navy thread.
- Here we are with a couple more candid pictures taken just after the ceremony for the seamen of the Merchant Navy. Pix are just in from ColetteB and show Charlie Elphicke in pensive chat
on the left and Mayor Philpott in the shot on the right.
EDIT NOTE: see the full picture feature on this event in ALL RECENT FEATURES see menu
left. - You will recall that Don Hunter, Chairman of the local Merchant Navy Association, was taken ill at the Town Hall. I have just spoken to his wife. He's
still in the William Harvey and was expecting to go home today but it looks more likely tomorrow. He's obviously not 100% and needs to take it easy. - Good to hear
that Don is well enough to go home as long as he takes it nice and easy, thanks for the good news Terry. - relief to hear that mr hunter is now
recovering.
colette
who is that chap that his talking to her highness the mayor?
i have seen him before just cannot place the side view. - Howard
- he's Ian, Don's son.
We're so glad Don is improving. - Thanks for that info there Terry. Good to hear Don is getting better. The main picture feature
itself has now moved into our All Recent Features archive...so anyone can access it there at anytime.
Also thanks Maggie for the info re Dons son. - Police have released an efit of a man they want to talk to after a girl was approached when she was walking her dog on Dover seafront with two friends.
The man stopped and stroked the dog
and then got hold of its collar, preventing the 13-year-old from walking away. The girl from Dover hit the man and he let go and the girls ran off. The incident happened at about 5pm on Sunday 11 July.
The man is aged between 40
and 50 and has tattoos on both arms.
Anyone with information or who knows the man should contact PC Matt Vick on 01622 690690 reference
SI/FY/3187.
- this might be an interesting one
charlie is on the case
wonder how the govt will comeout on this
one - That bloke looks familiar, I just wish I could remember where from.
- barryw
the guy does look
familiar
we realy must keep our eyes peeled - he seems famillar to me as well,but cant place where ive seen
him. - interesting article from mr connell there but will it make any difference now?
there are only two choices on the table for the government, neither are keeping
it as a trust port. - i am dead sure i saw that chap on my bus the last two mornings running.
- Howard,
the point is that we are still a Trust Port at the moment. We therefore enjoy the enormous commercial advantage of having a multi billion pound infrastructure courtesy of the nation for which we pay no rental. It is equivalent to an
ongoing constant hour by hour subsidy from the UK taxpayer. It therefore behoves us to keep a very low profile when other ports start kicking up about taxpayer subsidies or we may very well end up in the firing line. As you say, it
will all change if the port is privatised and ends up with a four hundred million pound debt to service. - ed
but i think the ferry companies are only asking is there
charges
to high?
so wont make much difference to the town
whatever the outcome
brian;
you should inform the police - two different issues keith, ed
is taking the chamber and m.p. to task over taxpayers money.
the ferry coves are after a cut in their port dues. - Totally different subject, Keith. The ferry
companies are protesting because DHB has been charging them excessive tariffs on the basis that this money would be used to build new ferry berths in Terminal 2 and it has transpired that DHB have other plans for the money. The ferry
companies feel that they have been taken for a ride.
The point being debated in this thread is the use of taxpayers money to subsidise the Port of Liverpool cruise terminal. It was given on the basis that the terminal would only
handle calls by cruise ships and not the more profitable turnrounds. Southampton and other ports want Liverpool to pay back the taxpayers contribution if they now intend to handle turnrounds. - Ed when you say 'us' you seem to speak for the port rather than the town. The two are not the same. Our concerns are primarily for the effect on the town of fewer cruise TR
calls not the effect on the port. - whats happend here then,one minute full of info and chat and then nothing.
- Talking to yourself again Brian?
- terry,no i had a blank page on my computer this morning,with only a comments box and nothing else.
- good luck with the book jeane, good photo there.
i take a monument of that size means that the deceased was wealthy/important. - Yes indeed as Howard says there..very good luck with the book Jeane. It all looks fascinating. I know you have a good and substantial following out there so that should be a real treat for fans everywhere.
Readers will have noticed our frontpage hit problems late last night and today. The problems were sadly inflicted upon us from another source so will say no more about that, but we are glad to be back as normal. I think we may have lost a couple of posts but it couldnt be helped. Our technical man Chris Tutthill laboured long and hard to get us back again. A huge thanks goes to him as ever. - Thank you very much PaulB, it’s always lovely to be featured on Doverforum. Good job by Chris sorting out the front page, maybe putting me on it put the mockers on it ha ha!
Anyways, someone asked me why the name Dispatches? Well it came from the announcements in the papers – Births, Marriages and Deaths also known as Hatched, Matched and Dispatched!
I’m pleased to say that even though it was only launched on 1st of this month it’s been selling really well. I discovered during my jaunts around cemeteries that there were a lot of hearse lovers out there and various clubs etc so I started taking photos and hitching rides (might as well enjoy it!)
My husband Les ‘pimped’ the Rocky Horror promotional hearse that was on tour to promote the shows recently – smoke machine, lights etc so I got to sit in the back of it. It had started life as a real hearse but though there was definitely an ‘atmosphere’ I didn’t feel spooked in any way.
My next book will be a complete departure from hearses and gravestones as it’s about graffiti art but I won’t be away from those lovely Victorian angels for long!
Yes Howard, the bigger the monument the wealthier you were deemed. To the Victorians your funeral was the most important day of your life!
- Are well done to Chris Tutthill for getting everything up and running, and Jeane lovely to see your latest book you sure are a very busy lady.
- Congratulations and well done Jeane.
Lovely photo of you (and the hearse).
Good Luck with the book.
Roger - What a lovely photo of you Jeane, you look positively demure and oh so elegant. I wish you all the very best with the book. You sure are a woman of many talents.
I noticed the problems with DF this morning but as ever, our IT man extraordinaire came to the rescue once again, Well done ChrisT. - Nice one Jeanne! Good luck with the book - I look forward to reading it.
- Thank you Jan, I like being busy.
Thanks Roger.
Ah Colette, it takes a lot of work for me to look that demure and elegant - ha ha!
Thanks Bern, not a lot to read but plenty to view.
- I always wanted to buy a hearse and convert it into a minibus. Nice panoramic windows!
- indeed they do have panoramic windows, a pity that the principal player in the vehicle does not have the opportunity to savour the views.
- Terry – and plenty of room for luggage too!
That’s why I’m getting in as many rides in hearses as I can now so that I can enjoy the view. I was recently in a parade of old hearses in Harlesden North London and due to the traffic and road works we literally had to crawl along the high street at a snails pace. People stopped and stared open-mouthed, came out of shops and restaurants for a better view, took photos with their phones, walked into lamp posts whilst watching (2) and even the a bus driver pulled up so that his passengers could get a better look. It was really amusing seeing the expressions on people’s faces.
Here is another picture from the Dispatches Book this time showing Jeane in fine fettle in front of the aforementioned and amazing hearse. No wonder they stop traffic. Both Jeane and the hearse! Plenty of room inside alright with room for one more up top. That used to be the cry of the dear old redundant bus conducter..remember them. Yes Terry good panaromic views but as Howard says there..the passengers dont get to take it all in.- The horse drawn hearses always stop traffic. It's a beautiful way to go and harks back to a bygone age....sigh....
- Yes. Good luck with the book Jeane. There is certainly a market for such. As I discovered when I Googled.
I live near the final resting place of Frank C Bostock who has a singular monument. A white marble lion.
His hearse was reputedly drawn by Zebras. (Lord Rothschild had a carriage similarly drawn-wiki,Zebra for photograph)
P.S.
This search also brought up film from BritishPathe.com of the said FCB's disbanded menagerie de-training at Dunstable for Whipsnade. - Thanks Tom. I was looking at that very monument yesterday at Abney Park cemetery. He’s been cleaned up now and is looking dazzlingly white. There is also a lion depicted on the tomb of his rival who actually became his partner, George Wombwell, in Highgate cemetery.
- No, no. Thank you Jeane. I suppose I was hoping you might have had something on the burial, but I guess I shall have to go out and buy the book.
- The feature on the book Dispatches by forumite Jeane Trend-Hill has now moved into our archive called ALL RECENT FEATURES. Lots of information and previous features to be found in there if anyone fancies a long trawl though our immediate history. Thanks Jeane for your co-operation.
New items will be following along... - Prawns Paul. That's what is caught in nets like that. We used to find loads at the warren. They hang around under the rocks.
- I saw & spoke to this man and found out there is a colony of whelks around there
From what I understand it is getting quite big !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- by the looks of it,the chap is shrimping.very nice to if you like the little blighters.
- Thanks for that information guys, didnt realise that's what the chap was about. But and here's the big but, would they be edible coming from the harbour. We have had reassurances in recent times about the quality of the water from DHB, we did carry a large feature on the very issue not so long ago, but some doubts remain. Are the little blighters edible??
However we can relax in the joy of joys that the water quality is at least better than that in The Thames. Look what has happened to the ever energetic David Walliams on his charity swim of said river..sickness of the nasty variety. According to Thames Water 500,000 gallons of raw sewage was pumped into the river last week alone. Yuk! Where does it go? - all very surprising i never realised that there was such an abundance of sea food down there.
i have only ever seen mussels collected locally and that was down near the prince of wales pier. - May be Salmon?
Might not muster EU fishing regulations! - paulb,like most seafood they do need cooking.i am sure if you google it,it will how to cook them.
- Ah nooo Brian young fella me lad.. I myself am not planning to cook anything, heavens no, but was merely asking in whimsical mode, if the sealife squirming beneath the rocks as shown could in fact be eaten at all.
Alas I do not possess any culinary skills with either wok or skillet and would be unable with any confidence to tackle anything live. My level of expertise and culinary bravery stops with the humble fishfinger...and even that is a challenge...lol! - paulb,no real skills needed.just chuck them in boiling water for 10 minutes.
- Despite promises of Gale Force winds today it all seems rather benign out on the sea and on the seafront...so far. The first cruise liner for several days is now languishing quietly against the pier at terminal 2. It's the oh so colourful and substantial Aida Blu...looking good.
Many thanks Brian for the culinary tips. - thats ok paulb,squrill stew is next on the agenda.lol
yes there is such a thing,its marvelous what you can knock up on the cheap these days. 
As the storm settled down a bit yesterday evening, the full moon emerged. Here are a couple of pictures of that twilight zone in between day and night... hopefully they should reproduce okay...It was gloomy night, the pictures make it look warmer than it was. Do you notice how empty everywhere is, not a soul moving about.- the sea looks back to normal in those pics.
a lot calmer today and pleasantly warm. - Yes spent the morning down at cruise 2 working for visit kent,loads of Germans coming through,weather wise not too bad,but trying to cycle home in that head wind along the pier was murder.
- Well, Well, Well, Brian, I wouldn't waste your culinary tips on PaulB, perish the thought he would cook anything from fresh. He's an 'outa' kind of guy, you know outa packet, outa tin etc but the outa restaurant is the one that appeals, especially if he's paying lol!
Nice twilight pix below, looks like a nice place to go, and its Dover! - coletteb,no harm in trying.my cooking school involves chuking whats ever about into one pot and seeing what comes out a little later.lol
- certainly some good pics on sky dive and a good charity
just donated £400 to that charity - Well done Sam!
- great photos, looks terrifying though.
thanks to the d.h.b. - Yes truly great pictures there and yes indeed ..terrifying. Not for the fainthearted so Sam Grindrod did really well. Pilgrims Hospice is a great cause and as I remember we had some links to them in the past from Doverforum but alas I dont now remember the specific details. Great to see money being raised in this way and any way in fact. But Sam's way provided some spectacular pictures!
I echo the "Well done Sam"
Well done Keef thats a good amount there too. Excellent. - Impressive Sam, well done.
- Wow well done there Sam quite an achivement, and some great pictures as well not for the fainthearted as PaulB said, and great stuff for the Pilgrims Hospice.
I have now released this item from its locked position at top of the scrolling page
BIG BEACH CLEAN-UP THIS WEEKEND at TWO LOCATIONS!
HELP SEAFRANCE TURN THE TIDE ON LITTER!
Join SeaFrance staff at Kingsdown Beach as part of the MCS Beachwatch initiative.
SeaFrance Dover-Calais Ferries is organising a mass beach clean at Kingsdown beach on Sunday 18 September 2011 and is inviting local residents to join in. The day forms part of Marine Conservation Society’s Beachwatch Big Weekend and will be a fun and informative event for all the family.
SeaFrance is the lead sponsor for the Beachwatch initiative, which not only cleans the beaches but also surveys the litter found on them. The MCS Beachwatch surveys are vital to combat marine litter – they have been used to influence laws on disposing waste at sea and have resulted in improvements in sewage treatment along the British coast. The Beachwatch Big Weekend is now in its 18th year, with thousands of volunteers taking part, making it the most influential fight against marine litter in the UK.
Any local residents who are interested in joining the SeaFrance staff for the beach clean on 18 September 2011 can meet at 10am at the Oldstairs Road end of Kingsdown beach.
For more information on the beach clean and SeaFrance’s involvement with the Marine Conservation Society, visit www.seafrancecleanseas.com
* *
DOVER’S SHAKESPEARE BEACH – BEACHWATCH BIG WEEKEND
The White Cliffs Countryside Partnership, with support and funding from Dover Harbour Board are jointly carrying out a marine litter survey and clean-up at Shakespeare Beach on Sunday 18 September, as part of the Marine Conservation Society's (MCS) Beachwatch Big Weekend.
Volunteers are being encouraged to take to Shakespeare beach between 10 and 2 on Sunday 18th, meeting at the gate to the beach off Lord Warden Square to help give this secluded shingle beach a deep clean, as well as surveying the type of litter that has been washed ashore. This and the hundreds of other surveys taking place over the weekend throughout the country will help MCS target and tackle the main sources of litter at national and international levels.
Last year’s Beachwatch Big Weekend saw almost 5,000 volunteers cleaning 376 beaches across the country, collecting over 330,000 pieces of litter.
Paul Sampson, Project leader for White Cliffs Countryside Partnership is preparing for the big day; "Clearing up the tide of marine refuse is a big job but with enthusiastic volunteers on board we can give this beach a well deserved clean as well as finding out exactly what type of litter is making its way by sea to this part of East Kent.”
Vicki Case, Environmental Officer, Port of Dover said; “The beach clean is a good fun event for all the family. It is of huge benefit to the wildlife at Shakespeare Beach and just four hours will make such a difference."
Ends
- kingsdown must have a big problem with litter, it was cleaned up earlier in the year.
let's hope the weather holds, the forecast is not good for the weekend. - Here is our famous pic of Kingsdown Beach by Paul 'Scotchie' Wells. Had to reduce it down to use it in this section although it has been used before in full panorama at the top of the page..but hope it reproduces well here, this section being a good bit smaller reproduction-wise.
As you can see its a bleak location and is probably more prone to debris than lots of our more sheltered beaches.
This appears to be a nationwide event this weekend which is great..Shakespeare Beach is being done too, by the WCCP guys. So really great stuff!
Added Extra info:
1.Volunteers should wear suitable footwear to walk along the beach and bring something to eat and drink.
2.Gloves, litter pickers and hi viz tabards will be available.
- Yes really hope the weather holds out the WCCP do a great job so good luck Guys, and good to see seafrance doing their bit, and DHB also for their contribution.
- and the project manager for white cliffs at shakespear is no relation lol
- Great effort all round as the pictures show,well done to all who took part.
- Now, this is the Big Society at work for sure. Dave will be pleased!
Well done to KPRA and 'Dive Matters' for their splendid work.
Hope the weather is kind tomorrow to all those participating in the MCS big beach clean ups at Kingsdown and Shakespeare beaches. - collette,i think you will find that they or some one else was doing the same thing as far back as the 70's.so well before big daves idea of the big soisity.
but it wasent as well publisised in them days. - Ah...I think ColetteB was being tongue in cheek there with regard to the Big Society Brian. Yes of course we were all doing worthwhile community togetherness stuff long before politicians like Mr Cameron took the initiative away from us and took the credit.
Looks like they might get good weather for the Big Clean-up today on the beaches listed in the post below. So far it all looks very fine, sunny and bright. Pic shows Dover Beach basking in glorious early sunshine just a few moments ago. All clean and spic and span, no wonder it gets a recommendation in the Good Beach Guide 2011.
"Dull would he be of soul who could pass by
a sight so touching in its majesty"
WW. - paulb;
yes there are a number of community events still going on around the district always have and always will
- DOVER EVENT WILL REWIND TO 1986
A special event is remembering the Eighties in Dover on Monday 26 September - with interactive displays and a range of activities in the town centre to help remember the everyday events of a generation ago.
The event, organised by Dover District Council and the BBC, in collaboration with Dover Museum and Dover Discovery Centre, is part of the BBC Domesday Reloaded project.
In 1986, the BBC launched an ambitious project to record a snapshot of everyday life across the UK for future generations. A million volunteers took part. Now, 25 years later you can explore the archive online, see the pictures, update the information and make your mark on this fascinating record of our collective history.
On the day, visitors to the Market Square will be able to attempt the Rubik’s Cube challenge, get footloose with the Popdance team, solve an 80s who’s who quiz, watch footage on the Big Screen of how Dover used to be, and marvel at 80s memorabilia and vehicles from a collection by the Timewarp local history group.
Dover Library and Museum will also be on hand to invite you to find out all about how the area has changed and to collect people’s memories of the decade.
Cllr Sue Chandler, DDC Cabinet Member for Community, Housing and Youth said: "We are very pleased to be working with the BBC and local schools and other partners on this important project. We hope local residents will enjoy this chance to come along to the Market Square, to see some unique footage and remember the 80s, and to get involved in a range of activities on the day."
The event is free of charge, including entrance to Dover Museum’s 1980s exhibition, and runs from 11am to 3pm.
* *
EXTRA : This additional info just in.....
OUR CHILDHOOD PAST
Treasured memories from childhood and a range of colourful displays, toys and games will feature in a special exhibition for all the family, which opens at Dover Museum from Monday 26 September.
The ‘Our Childhood Past’ exhibition includes an Edwardian nursery, a Victorian classroom, a display of children's clothes through the ages, a display of toys and games, and a collection of Hornby models and a train layout. It also includes a number of toys and games for children and adults to have a go at, including a large Scalextric set on loan to the Museum. The exhibition has been put together by Dover Museum and Dover Museum Youth Group, and Hornby.
For more information on the exhibition, or other forthcoming events, please contact Dover Museum on 01304 201066 or see www.dovermuseum.co.uk
Many thanks to DDC for the information.
- On a work/schoolday?
- that was my first thought, i can only asume that some schools will fit the museum bit into their day.
- Well chaps it does say from Monday 26th.
- the larger 1986 event is purely for the 26th september.
- Witness appeal after man injured in Dover flat
Police are investigating after a 54-year-old man was found with injuries in a flat in Priory Road, Dover on Sunday morning (18 September 2011).
Officers were called to the flat at 9.10am by the ambulance service whose staff took the man to the QEQM Hospital, Margate, to be treated for head injuries. His condition today (19 September 2011) is described as serious but stable.
House to house inquiries have been carried out in the area and officers are studying CCTV. It is believed that the person carrying out the assault may have been known to the man injured.
Anyone with information or can help police is urged to contact Kent Police on 01622 690690 giving reference 18-441.
* *
Pedestrian victim of A20 crash named
The pedestrian who died following a collision with a lorry on the A20 at Samphire Hoe, Dover, on Friday (16 September 2011) has been named as David Bell (49) from Lower Road, River near Dover.
Police are investigating the circumstances leading up to the collision on the Dover-bound carriageway and have appealed for any witnesses, who officers have not yet spoken to, to contact Kent Police’s Serious Collision Investigation Unit on 01622 798538.
The collision happened at 9.10am and caused traffic delays in the area with both carriageways having to be closed for several hours. The London-bound carriageway was opened at 12.20pm and the Dover-bound carriageway at 1.50pm.
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Tribute to a keen football supporter....
David Bell (pictured) worked with the UK Border Agency at Dover Eastern Docks. He was a keen supporter of Dover Athletic football club and Newcastle United.
A statement issued by Mr Bell’s family stated: "David was a loving father who will be sadly missed by his loving family and we ask that we are now left in peace to grieve".
- David Bell photo'd above who died in the accident on the A20 on Friday was one of the nicest men you could ever wish to meet and will be much missed by all his friends at Dover Athletic. Very sad times.
- i understand that he was a whites fan like yourself paul.
terrible tragedy. - Yes indeed very sorry to hear that sad tale about David Bell. Judging by the reports we are hearing he was a very popular chap up at Crabble. Sad news.
- I HAVE commented on the main pages after last nights game at crabble
- good to see so many people involved in the 2 clean ups, i wonder what percentage is washed up rubbish as against stuff just left by visitors.
- could i again add the project officer for wccp is no relation lol
- Now added extra pic just in from Seafrance. Many thanks to both teams for the excellent job done and for sending their info through to Doverforum.
- From Dover Town Council...
RE-OPENING OF CHARLTON GREEN LAWN
Dover Town Council is very pleased to announce that the Charlton Green Lawn will be open to the public again from 1 October 2011. Following the theft of the safety closure on the gate in July and widespread dog fouling and littering, the popular green oasis for shoppers had to be shut off.
The Right Worshipful The Town Mayor, Cllr Mrs Ronnie Philpott said, “Despite the selfish actions of some anti-social folk, the Town Council has invested again to make this welcome green resting place available for shoppers, their children and dogs. I hope that everyone will respect this shared space and feel able to report those who do not. I was particularly disappointed at people who did not pick up after their dogs. I always carry bags to make sure that my Shar Pei, Remi, doesn’t leave any unwelcome signs that she has visited!”
The District Council empties the litter bin as its contribution to the little park and Dover Town Council would like to hear from any volunteers or nearby businesses who would help keep an eye on the area, picking up litter if needed. We all need to work together to make Dover a better place to live and work!
The picture shows former Mayor Cllr Sue Jones with current Mayor Cllr Ronnie Philpott at the official opening ceremony last spring. Sue is the one with the scissors!
Anyone who sees theft or damage to public property or people leaving litter or dog mess anywhere in Dover can call either the Town or District Councils as well as the police to report this on 01304 242625 or 01304 872220.
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- Well done to all the volunteers for their splendid work clearing the beaches at Kingsdown and Shakespeare, glad to see the weather was fine for them on the day.The pix above certainly tell the story, love the group one, sent in by Paul Sampson, what a happy looking bunch of people. Marvellous to hear that Seafrance have managed to raise in excess of £600,000 for the MCS and in only three and a half years. Great achievement!
- all excellent pictures from w.c.c.p they all look as if they are having a good time as well as doing an excellent job for the community.
- Good to see the beachwatch update, look as though all went well.
- The Beachwatch features have now moved into the All Recent Features archive. Lots of stuff in there about allsorts. Amazing the amount of litter picked up by the volunteers which can only make everywhere safer for all, particularly the wildlife. So another well done to them.
Many of you will remember the picture left supplied to us by SEAFRANCE before of this gorgeous seabird wrapped completely in plastic wiring. Destined for a miserable fate but of course was rescued by the efforts of volunteers.
RE CHARLTON GREEN ; Good to see the picnic area is being re-opened. Maybe a bit late for picnics but nevertheless good to see the public having access again shortly..from Oct 1. Yesterday the debris and dumped signpost were still very much in evidence but no doubt it will all be cleaned up before opening. Vandalism in evidence everywhere. Torn down branches from the trees, wrecked gate, and the signpost complete with heavy concrete base, uprooted and chucked into the river. It didnt quite reach the river. All this needs fixing. More in the Forum on all this.
Trying out the new seat just a few short months ago.Happier days....see post below from DTC.
- that is such a sad picture of the bird, discarded angling equipment is another great danger.
- Did you see road traffic collision?
Kent Police is appealing for a driver who may have witnessed a road traffic collision in Deal to come forward.
The collision happened in Victoria Road at the junction with Deal Castle Road between 4pm and 4.10pm on Monday 8 August 2011. It involved a taxi and a white van. The driver of the taxi received minor whiplash injuries.
Police Constable Matthew Hawkes said: “We have received new information that there was a possible key witness to the collision who wasn’t at the scene when police attended.
“The only details we have about the witness is that he was a male motorist who was possibly driving a Mercedes. I urge him to contact police.”
Anyone with information about the collision is asked to phone Kent Police on 01622 690690 and quote reference August 08-1023.
Dover lifeboat crew goes to aid angling boat near the Varne.
The volunteer crew of Dover’s RNLI lifeboat were called out at 12:40pm on Saturday afternoon (24th) to assist an angling boat which had broken down near the Varne Bank.
City of London II was soon underway and headed out to the stricken craft with four men onboard. On arrival the lifeboat crew found the small boat had broken down. As it was unable to proceed under its own power it was taken under tow to the safety of Dover Harbour.
In clear weather and good sea conditions the casualty vessel was towed in without incident and safely moored in Dover Marina by 2:30pm where the boat’s owner was able to start repairs.
Just an additional note about the City of London II :
Dover Lifeboat Station currently operates, City of London II, a Severn class, all-weather-lifeboat. The 17m vessel is self righting, capable of 25 knots, crewed at sea by a Coxswain and six crew.
Dover lifeboat station has been operating since 1837.
Picture by Martin Collins. It shows the Lifeboat returning from a previous rescue.
- yes howard,quite common around the coastal regions of the uk,most of it is discarded fishing nets that have snagged on under water objects like wreaks and rocks.but saying that some shore fishermen do leave rubbish behind.
This elaborate feeding station was set up on the seafront this morning. I didnt know what was about to take place, was it a sweaty marathon? was the Olympic flag nipping in through the back door, held aloft by the runner elite?...alas no, nothing so dramatic.
After some time walkers came by in stuttering groups, presumably on a long stint o'er hill and dale, reaching the seafront in need of instant physical renewal, regeneration, and resusitation. In other words all gasping for a drink. And the feeding station was there to supply it.
What's actually afoot I dont know..- It might have had something to do with the Walk For Life events that were mentioned on Meridian news on Friday
- I heard that the M20 was very conjested yesterday with long delays due to the bikers, half expected you to don your leathers and ride of into the sunset with them Paul, ah! those were the days! Still have my red leather jacket from yesteryear tucked away in the wardrobe which is so small that I wonder how on earth I was that tiny once upon a time!
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ferry outside would be stationary at least 1/2 a mile out.
Don't forget that the Breakwater is the best part of 3/4 mile.....