Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
17 February 2009
09:5015597#1
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
17 February 2009
10:1615601#2
madness. No doubt Bern and some others would approve of aboloshing the use of the word crusader because it is associated with violence way back in history.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
17 February 2009
10:4015604#3
Again I have no personal problems and it does seem a little pedantic, especially as it we are talking about "one or two complaints" Also amusing that they have renamed as the Panthers!
Right or wrong, I don't think it is significant like many of the other instances we have recently looked at to be classed as such, unless you just want personal opinion, which has little to do with what is "right or wrong"
As for the Crusades, I mean what's wrong with persecuting others for not sharing a religious belief? (after all they form the blueprint for morality do they not?) I think Andrew has raised the point before that we (especially the British) have almost had to over compensate for the mistakes we have made in the past. I'm not so sure that our control of the past will lead to our control of the future!
17 February 2009
11:3015606#4
Fiddling while Rome burns. Very 'now', very redolent of this increasingly lost, hysterical and marginal country of ours.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
17 February 2009
16:3515618#5
fiddling while rome burns is now a redundent post,how many other teams have the name crusaders in it,and how many complaints have they had.none i expect.
Alec Sheldon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 18 Aug 2008
- Posts: 1,037
17 February 2009
19:4915621#6
Will the Saracens Rugby team have to change their name now.?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
17 February 2009
20:3715627#7
just take a look at any football, cricket or rugby results from a local newspaper across the country.
you will see fulchester catholics, jews, muslims etc.
i suppose we could start a dover fatwa tiddleywinks team?
no hooked hands though. that would be cheating.
17 February 2009
21:2315630#8
Hey up - don't second guess me Barry!!!!! I have no problem with Crusaders, the term has historic value and means more than one thing. I also think the constant presure to apologise for what was done centuries ago is futile and achieves nothing. It is the now and how we address current issues that matters - that sometimes means acknowledging historic wrongs, but not beating ourselves up over them. So there!!!
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
18 February 2009
08:1015641#9
I do find this somewhat scary that one or two complaints can make a cricket team change its name.
I'm sure this had been said before, but if we went to live in a Muslim country and we decided that we didn't like the name of a local footbal or whatever team, and grumbled about it, would they change the name ? would they.....................
It's the name of a cricket team for goodness sake, not regiment of soldiers.
By kow-towing to this, it just makes their (the grumblers - the muslims, jews and others) voice stronger the next time they have a beef.
Roger
18 February 2009
09:1415648#10
I'm with you there, Roger - freedom of speech is a precious asset and should be guarded. That clearly doesn't give carte blanche (remember her in a streetcar named desire...?!) to offend, as we have a duty to use our words wisely. (Don't, whatever you do, set me off again...) But freedom of speech is not universal, and people who live in the West, critisise the West, and incite violence against the West while enjoying all the benefits of the West should think again.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
18 February 2009
11:2015650#11
Unlike some spiteful and derogatory terms, hung onto out of ingrained bad habits, the term 'crusader' has many positive conotations outside of historical usage. They should never have changed the name based on so few complaints and by doing so have set a bad precedent. Changing the name does, in fact, work against free speech and devalues the more serious arguments against the use of deliberately demeaning terminology.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
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