Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#1
I saw the Russian/Georgian conflict unfold 'ball by ball' on Sky News. The whole business kicked off when the Georgians released some horrific firepower on South Ossetia, a region of its own country but a region very much affiliated with neighbouring Russia. The Georgian rockets and shells lit up the night sky in an awesome blitz which rained town on the Ossetian unfortunates. Iraq's annihilation of the Kurds lept to mind.
Then to my surprise a day or two later I read all about the same thing but presented totally diferently in saturdays Daily Mail. The Mail had powered in to indulge in the usual western pastime of kicking the Russians no matter what they do. Newspapers around the world followed suit in the usual anti Russian frenzy of inaccuracy.
The Russians had of course in the meantime, between that original live Sky news broadcast and the eventually printed newspapers, rushed in to defend their people in South Ossetia...but by now were being painted as the horrible aggressors by President Bush and everyone else with a Western axe to grind. But isnt this exactly how Western powers themselves operate when their interests or citizens are put at jeopardy.
One has to marvel at the different ways the news is fed to an all absorbing populace. Sky had the original raw news before the politically correct western spin was put on it by most of the rest of the worlds media. In the end we are always fed what they want us to hear.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#2
I really am in two minds on this one. All is not necessarily as it seems. I have read reports that Russia has been actively undermining the Georgians in South Ossetia for years and encouraging seperatism so they are certainly not whiter than white. The Georgian response was ill judged certainly as it gave the Russians an excuse to invade.
Charlie Elphicke posted a defence of the Russians on CentreRight so he has taken a different position to DC.
Personally I think it is six on one and half dozen of the other.
Instinctively I would sympathise with the smaller power, the Georgians, who are also pro-west. But in this case I do think they have acted foolishly.
#3
As always, the media spin it to suit their colours - and frankly who can blame them? The days of a free press are long gone, sadly, and much mourned by us old lefties........and hopefully by a few from the other direction too! Sadly, if you have enough dosh to buy a press, you have enough dosh to tell the panting public what you want it to hear. Did anyone see a small item on some news-y TV programme the other evening (I don't watch much TV as you can tell!!) that showed how the local power companies have direct lines with TV companies who inform them when a popular programme will finish so that the power companies can ensure sufficient power during the break, when people put kettles on etc etc. Are we not ruled by TV!!!!????? I found that, evidencing the level to which we have become enslaved by TV, deeply shocking. Oh, and about Russia....!! Russia=big power, Georgia= little power: Bern is on the little guys side!!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#4
Its long been the case Bern that the power companies prepare for an increased demand during commercial breaks. I remember that being discussed when I was a child. Its not such a big thing now because of multi-channel tv, back then, in the 60's it was a much bigger problem for the power companies.
As for the media. It seems to me that the media has seen increasing domination from the left. The BBC has long been a 'liberal/left' broadcaster and have admitted to a pro-EU prejudice.
Then there are many left wing newspapers, The Guardian, Mirror and so on. Even the Telegraph (once know as the 'torygraph') has been less than fully supportive of the Conservatives in recent years.
Then there is the internet. That surely has opened us all up to a variety of differing views. You need only to go to politicshome.com to see many media links, a lot of them to bloggers of the left and right to see that.
So no, I think you are wrong to claim that the days of a 'free press' are gone. There is much more variety of views than ever before openly available accross all media outlets.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#5
I am not sure of all the background to this conflict but as another old leftie one point that does stick out to me is 'what right do Russia have which enables them to invade another sovereign state'?
Surely Georgia have the right to defend themselves?.
Finally in the 21stC surely Europe can solve its differences round a negotiating table rather than resorting to armed conflict.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
#6
Strikes me that the whole conflict has the usual two-faced element with Russia rushing to support seperatists in Georgia having rushed in to counter seperatists in Chechnya. With Bush sabre rattling one wonders where the Ukraine will stand, they are, after all, another pro western former soviet state.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#7
Breaking News
Russian President Dmitry Medvedev ordered a halt to military action in Georgia, after five days of air and land attacks that took Russian forces halfway across the small Western-allied nation.
Medvedev said on national television that the military had punished Georgia enough for its attack on South Ossetia.
Georgia launched an offensive last week to regain control over the separatist Georgian province, which has close ties to Russia.
"The security of our peacekeepers and civilians has been restored," Medvedev said. "The aggressor has been punished and suffered very significant losses. Its military has been disorganised."
The Russian president, however, said he ordered the military to defend itself and quell any signs of Georgian resistance.
"If there are any emerging hotbeds of resistance or any aggressive actions, you should take steps to destroy them," he told his defence minister at a televised Kremlin meeting.
Hours before Medvedev's announcement, Russian forces bombed the town of Gori and launched an offensive in the only part of Abkhazia still under Georgian control, tightening the assault on the beleaguered nation as French President Nicolas Sarkozy arrived in Moscow carrying Western demands that Russia pull back.
President Medvedev told Mr Sarkozy that Georgia must pull its troops out of the two separatist provinces and agree not to use force again.
Russia's foreign minister, meanwhile, said that Georgia's president must leave office and Georgian troops should stay out of South Ossetia permanently.
Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said that Moscow will not talk to President Mikhail Saakashvili and Saakashvili "better go".
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#8
who had heard of south osettia before last weekend?
just shows how things are hushed up.
just like chechnya years ago.
the russian nature is to be paranoid, with such massive borders.
the old warsaw pact countries of eastern europe are gradually joining with NATO.
georgians generally feel that they have been oppressed by their russian neighbours firstly with the tsars then the soviets.
ethnic russians that have lived in georgia for generations now feel that ethnic cleansing is on the cards.
why is the rest of the world so interested????
massive oil pipelines run through georgia from russia to the west.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#9
I hear the onslaught of american rhetoric from Bush, Rice, and so on praising the poor beleagured MR Sakashvilli...but my feeling is in my own humble way is that this guy is unstable. He did, and its hard to remember in the wave of anti russianism, launch the initial attack.
One might remember that the Americans also mightily praised and supported one Saddam Hussein too...now Im not saying Sakashvilli is anything like that, but am calling into doubt the warm wave of poisonous spin the americans put out to suit their own aims.They are cranking it out right now, a conveyor belt of spew!
Guest 663- Registered: 20 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,136
#10
Is this Russia's way of telling the rest of the world they can do as they wish, and to hell with it's people who live there after all they are the one's who will suffer in the end.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
#11
A confused and dangerous situation and one has to question where it will lead. When is an ethnic community able to call itself independent. The former Yugoslavian states were able to get recognition, although Macedonia with its half dozen tanks and couple of helicopters had to change its name because Greece was afraid of terretorial claims based on Alexander the greats dad. Slovakia and the Czech Republic were both recognised but Kosova, Chechnya and Iraqi Kurdistan are not. South Ossetia is supported by Russia but what if they want union with North Ossetia which is firmly in Russian territory? The other breakaway Georgian state, Abkhazia, is supported by Russia from their initial declaration. At the time ethnic Abkahazians made up 18% of the population of that region, although that figure was pushed up to 43% when Russian support led to thousands of ethnic Georgians fleeing the area.
Will UN decisions help? UN resolutions have ordered Britain out of Gibralter (once) and Isreal out of its occupied areas (6 times) with no effect. The Western Sahara has been recognised as an independent state but is still occupied by (the pro western) Morocco.
South Ossetia looks to be the latest in a long line of messy and tragic regional disputes where the answer seems to be shoot first and talk never. In the film 'Mars Invades' the American president asked, "why can't we all just get along?" He was then killed, anyone else see the symbolism for the state of our world?
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
#12
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
#13
For the other side of the story, try watching the 'Russia Today' channel on Sky/Freesat - not sure if it's on Freeview also.
