I see Cameron wants to fix the health and safety madness that has blighted the UK for years. HOORAY! As someone who is a victim of this utter insanity on a regular basis I am very pleased and I hope he tackles this with a ballsy realism and doesn't just give it lip service. H&S has been the biggest thorn in my side except the recession and I remain utterly convinced that it is all a huge rip-off designed to earn certain people a lot of money while the rest of us are left feeling paranoid, incapable of taking personal responsibility, and thoroughly insulted by the asses that enforce these dumb rules.
Example - I had to do an expensive training course (approx £400) just to use a step ladder at a certain site. A step ladder. Despite the fact that I have been up and down step ladders for 21 years with a 100% accident-free record.
If I could be bothered I could write a whole list of things like this. Sadly, in my work, I come up against this rubbish all the time and it does nothing but generate unwanted paperwork, expense, and frustration. Please PM, let common sense rule the day. Relax the H&S culture back to something sensible that works to look after us all but not to the point where kids playing conkers have to wear safety goggles, or teachers refuse to take kids on outings, or tradesmen can walk up a ladder with a hammer in his hand without looking over his shoulder every five minutes.
I'll be watching this closely.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
As a matter of interest the number of HS claims has fallen over the last 10 years.That being said its high time that this area is re-examined so long as it doesn't provide a loophole for unscrupulous bosses to cut corners and staff by ignoring certain safety standards.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Ballsy realism/politician. No, sorry, the words are there but they don't make sense for me..................................
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
bern,you may be right it dosent inspire confadence.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
Health and safety is long, long, long overdue for a complete revision, and a good clearout of all the pen pushers who`ve done so much to destroy an awful lot of our way of life for years. Yes, we need something strict in place, but NOT over the top.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
quite right about the pen pushers, they have had a field day with the red tape, making up more rules as they go along.
it has been an industry in itself, must be the easiest job in the world, just thinking up reasons to not do something.
Guest 686- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 556
Quite agree with Rick on this, what a lot of nonsense. I've thought for a long time that the H&S legislation has been an excuse to invent "jobs for the boys" in government as well as allowing for the creation of a raft of daft business opportunities for so-called consultants; £400 to learn to climb a ladder would be better spent on learning how to land safely perhaps!
Trimming the HSE would safe the budget a few million quid, and I'm sure that goes for many other government departments and quangos too.
It will be interesting to see how this pans out in reality as I suspect that Brussels has an interest in the subject too.
Phil West
If at first you don't succeed, use a BIGGER hammer!!
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
My wife will tell you that my sentiments about H&S match Rick's 100%. Not only in the workplace, but at voluntary events and at leisure, the Health and Safety Executive are responsible for huge increases in costs to the extent where many much-loved events have had to be axed due to a combination of red tape and insurance, where businesses have simply given up trying to fight nonsensical working practices and where volunteers simply cannot keep up with the proliferation of legislation. It's simply an area legislated by, and monitored by, jobsworths whose sole aim is seemingly to keep jobsworths in jobs, and bugger the consequences or cost.
A specific example of this is the cheese-rolling contest at Cooper's Hill in Gloucestershire that has been held for literally hundreds of years; that is, until the the H&S Executive realised that far too much fun was being had and put the kibosh on it. There are millions more illustrations of this, many of which will be much more serious than cheese rolling, but my point is essentially that our heritage and way of life are in danger of being eroded by pointless legislation. At some stage, common sense has to kick in; let us hope that the Prime Minister has begun the fightback against those that want us to live in a sterile and unimaginative world.
True friends stab you in the front.
I'm a 1970s kid / 1980s teenager which was a time when we used to go out tree climbing, adventuring up the cliffs, and coming home with cut knees, bruised elbows and exciting stories to tell.
I have often wondered what such a risk-averse culture will create in the next generation. If this is allowed to go on long enough as badly as it currently is, then could it saturate the mindset of the new youth and give rise to a generation so brainwashed by risk-aversion that they live in fear of almost everything? Will their tendency for risk-aversion be so bad that we lose an entire generation of entrepreneurs? Will all leisure activity cease such as rollercoasters, contact sports, and adventure travel? This may all be over-the-top conjecture but I do believe that this will have SOME effect in future and it won't be pretty. Just look back at my generation, I am part of the MTV generation and the influence of this is profoundly visible in our often risible culture all these years later.
Here's a few REAL H&S stories to get you sufficiently wound-up:
School kids couldn't watch chick eggs hatching because HSE insisted on a biological risk assessment
HSE warn people not to clear ice from footpaths in case they get sued
School kids made to wear safety goggles when playing conkers
HSE forced kids to stop playing on a rope swing even though it had many years of 100% accident free record
Kids were banned from making toys and models from used egg cartons because of salmonella risk
Teachers were prohibited from helping kids to apply sunscreen in case a molestation case resulted
We do need this to be reformed. At the moment our H&S culture is making England safe for bloody idiots and little else.
Whilst I agree wholeheartedly with views expressed against the HSE and "safe" culture we are now submerged in, I also think we need to look long and hard at ourselves. It is us, Joe Public, who encourage and keep in business the "ambulance chasers". As a defence against these leeches and the greedy public, the HSE provides some protection for companies liable to be sued at the drop of a hat these days.
What is needed is, balance.
Employers need to provide safe working environments and methods; the Unions could help here by taking a positive approach instead of fighting everything that either moves or looks like it might move. Employees need to follow the advice and rules. We all need to lose the 'pound signs in our eyes' the minute something goes wrong. The Judiciary need to reduce compensation payouts to sensible, and fair, numbers.
This is a challenge for us all, not just the politicians.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Totally agree Rick. One thing though, the rope swing is not a good example seeing a child in Dover was tragically killed after a fall from a rope swing. That said such incidents are thankfully very rare and its something many of us have done and our children should not be deprived of it due to one terrible incident.
Some more good news to demonstrate the new Government is getting to grips with a lot of the idiocy that has arisen over the last 13 years.
Theresa May has announced that she's dropping the Vetting and Barring scheme, under which 9 million adults working with children would have to register on a government database or face a £5,000 fine.
Clearly children need protecting from paedos but you can go too far, and spend too much, on child protection. Most child abusers (still quite rare despite the media hysteria it generates) tend to be in the family and no amount of vetting will stop that. This scheme which, even after amended by Balls, was far over the top. The Royal College of Nursing was even taking legal action over the requirement for nurses to register!
Katherine Hepburn's elder brother died from a rope swing too. He had the rope round his neck, hanging from the ceiling in his bedroom!
Guest 665- Registered: 24 Mar 2008
- Posts: 345
Rick you forgot to add the welding mask for the popcorn maker at Cineworld!
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,699
A little perspective is needed methinks
in 1974 651 fatal workplace injuries were recorded
in 2008-9 there were 180
over the same period the workforce has risen by 12%
This equates to approx 5,000 people who avoided dying in the workplace due to the HASWA.
The real problem is that what seemed reasonable in 1974 when the Act wound its way through parliament has led; in our litigation oriented culture today to ridiculous decisions. The main problem with the Act is it is littered with the phrase "so far as is reasonably practicable" which of course gives pencil pushers, bleeding hearts and ambulance chasing lawyers every opportunity in the world to make a case and some money. Of course the Act needs tightening up to remove this and return it to its core principle of making employees (and those they interact with) safe in the workplace, which should be done through clear statements of where it applies and where it does not, of what constitutes an unreasonable risk particularly in the context of risky jobs (e.g. emergency services, mining, deep sea fishing). After all we cannot and should not attempt to eliminate all risk otherwise boundaries are never pushed, people are left to their own devices by the emergency services, learning and enjoyment are curtailed.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
ROSS
You make some very valid points.
It is sad that the health and safety aspect was an attempt to make things safer, and to give you a fewv examples as to why health and safety is needed and dont need cutbacks in staff you will see why;
In years gone where i worked an employee was asked to go up on the roof by the employer in heavy winds, now although that person should have said no its to dangerous, most people know in reality the pressure from employers and trying to keep in a job, sometimes blinds the dangers.
This person fell through a very high roof onto a concrete floor now paralised worse his mum was there and saw it happen.
This poor person is now in a wheelchair, and thankfully to compensate a little the union got him za fully adapted house,and some compo, and yes he was wrong to take up he job, but the mangers were seriously wrong for;
1; sending him up there in first place
2; not having checked he was working safely or using safe equiment(manager fully aware he wouldnt be)
3; Manager and the company at first refused to admit any liability!!
4; safety netting that was supposed to stop his fall he bounced off of so was inadequate
Thats why its important to have responsible trade unions
Employee's also need to know under the health and safety at work act 1974 sectio 2
they also have a duty of care to both themselves and others, and whilst I agree health and safety has gone way over the top heres an example ofg bad practice that has gone in the past.
walking down a platform I noticed a platform staff member(i worked on the platform at that time) up a brute that they loaded royailmail bags in, not known for having good brakes on them this person was standing on top of one of these the open side being towards the tracks.
I asked him to come down and pointed out the dangers of falling off the brute, the brute moving, only place if he fell would be to fall on the track!!
also asked him who asked him to do such a job in such a dangerous manner.
Again it was the employer many of whom would turn a blind eye when everything running ok, but when things go wrong thats when they not seen for dust.
So i explained to both the empoyer and employee a safer way of working(long handle brushes working from the platform, not rocket science, of course I was not always around, and i'm sure others can point out many such incidents where they work.
But it moved on and wwe had many building site tradegies through lack of thought on health and safety.
Today, although well meaning health and safety has gone to far the other way,
incidents such as Ian mentions IE goggles and conkers etc is a step to far, but its the culture we have created.
compo claims going through the roof.
play areas being a gd example, sounding old here, but in my day(lol) when you fell off a slide and grazed your knee you learnt not to do it again!!!
not look for who owns it to get compo out of them.
So review yes, but like ROSS says employers and some employees will cut corners and all the time it goes ok then its not a problem, but the one time it goes wrong, you can up like tha poor chap in my first example now in a wheelchair for life.