Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#1
Simon Finlay in the Dover Express does an interesting editorial column.
This week it's all about our nasty local roads and our inability to do anything at all about making them safer. He also speaks about the visit from on high(Westminster) of one Theresa Villiers( who?..well you might well ask! I dont know either) into our recent midst.
Our local well meaning Tory chappies do this kind of thing regularly. We have had lots of visiting bigwigs from the Tory party but all they ever really produce are photo opportunities for the local papers and for the politicians. I dont want to be too harsh as the gestures are well meaning and I suppose at the very least it draws attention to our plight. But doesnt 'drawing attention to our plight' begin to get tedious after a while when there is no firm action of any kind..ever.
Recently we had a committee of political high flyers looking at our truckflow on townwall st..then we had the half boiled plan for mass M20 truck parking when we know the villagers of Kent wont be having any of it next to them. Would you?! So thats a No-No.
Simon Finlay doesnt seem totally convinced either about this latest Villiers visit...
" Perhaps Theresa Villiers visit was a genuine fact finding mission...!!" says Simon in doubtful head scratching mode and asks that the local Tories
"formulate a set of policies that can actually work!!" if they want to be taken seriously!
Read the column. In the meantime our nasty roads continue to spread misery..the A2 with its lack of dualling, the A258 with its..well, you know.
Guest 654- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 169
#2
I wouldn't want to be seen agreeing here, but like all local/national parties this has gone on for some time,
when in opposition Gwyn had many Labour shadow ministers at the time and Labour MP's
The Conservatives are no different.
Does it do anything for the cause?? that has yet to be seen.
But I suppose widening Dover's ability to talk to Ministers/shadow ministers /MP's and getting them on board has to help.
k
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#3
I will try to respond in a non-Party political way.
It is important for those responsible for formulating policy and for implementing it, when in Government, to have a feel of the problems on the ground and to be 'in touch'. Just think what would be said about leading politicians if they stayed in Westminster and did not get out and about in the country like this. Ivory Towers comes to mind.
Local Political parties get leading politicians down to show them local problems and also to support the local Party at fund raising lunches and dinners. I think its important that someone like Theresa Villiers should not just come down, attend a lunch, do a speach and then flit off back to Westminster. To show her the local problems related to her policy portfolio is important and part of the process that highlights our local problems.
You cannot expect to see quick results from such a visit, as I say it is just part of a process. In respect of this specific visit by Theresa Villiers, she can only influence a result for Dover if she got into Government, currently she is in Opposition. That does not mean such visits do not play a part, she may be the Minister responsible in 2 years time.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#4
The problem is we get nothing BUT these kinds of visits with no action at all. At what point does the PR visit become a cheap platitude to keep the peasants satisfied that something is being done. My feeling is that the people of Dover are fed up with shots of politicians in the newspapers but with no end result particularly over roads like these. People like Villiers who have no affinity with Dover whatsoever, nor does Dover have any affinity with her, are just here furthering their career path. I guarantee a walk down the high street would result in a..WHO!!?? from anyone asked as to her identity.
I appreciate that a certain amount of politicking has to take place, but look at the DTIZ situation...response has told me on here over the years, that there were so many promises, so many false dawns, that people get well and truly disgruntled with everything to do with it.
The PR exercise can have a venomous backbite if we in the end get nothing but the PR exercise.
#5
Hear Hear. That time must be close by.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#6
when will we get the next photo opportunity of mr scales telling us that burlington house came down in february.
i am trying to be positive, but so many false dawns wear a bit thin.
i see that dover priory station has a wonderful new waiting room for people waiting for the port bus.
it is very nice.
the problem is that the port bus now costs 2 nicker each way!!!
a cab irrespective of the number of occupants costs a fiver.
doesn't need calculator to realise that the portbus service is due to end soon.
i received inside info on this.
where is the joined up thinking here?
what will be done with this spacious waiting room?
sorry to be negative, but this sort of stuff really gets to me.
Guest 663- Registered: 20 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,136
#7
The problem is we need people with some vision visiting is all very well and keith may be right, but the like,s of us do not get to talk to these people so instead of visit,s somebody somewhere kick some ASS and do something.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#8
Keeping to the subject of this thread....
Come off it PaulB. You journalists just love to have your cake and eat it.
As I said if we did not get visits such as this by such as Theresa Villiers then you would be complaining. We get visits and you still complain.
No wonder journalism is held is even lower esteem than politics.
We get a front line speaker down for a fund raiser and you would prefer that after a good meal that she should disappear off to Westminster without seeing and discussing local issues.... Come off it you would be complaining if she did that.
If you want her to take action then she needs to get into Government, without winning an election she cannot act. In the meantime she needs to find out what is happening to prepare for Government.
So if you want to complain about such visits not resulting in any action you should direct these critisisms to the party that has been in power for 11 years.............
Getting back to being non-Party political, the real world is different and much more complex than the weird never never land inhabited by journalists.
So make up your mind, would you prefer leading politicians to lock themselves away in Westminster and be even further out of touch than many think they are? Thats what you are saying.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#9
barry
did she discuss local issues?
alternatively did she just turn up for a photo call?
i realise the photo opportunity is an integral part of political life, but we have certain councillors that are always there for the camera locally.
on the plus side our nigel and keith seem to love the lens, but can actually point to achievements.
incidentally,i thought that paul was PR,not a journalist.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#10
I suppose Howard Ive become a lowly journaliste under my present guise
..the PR Advertising days are long behind me now....
I know what you are saying there BarryW and yes indeed you are right but only up to a point and within politics only. Those within politics play a kind of game, a kind of political football if you like, and forget that outside there are real people who are hurting. Take note of Gordon Brown and his 10p debacle. Some of a less goodwilled disposition than myself might say a visit like this is making mileage out of misery..especially when the politician concerned is never ever likely to be in a position to do anything about the terrible difficulties.
The problems with these visitations are...yes youve all guessed it, we've all guessed it, nothing ever happens as an upshoot. People can see that.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#11
Dammed if you do, damned if you dont....Politicians cant win no matter what they do.
In a few years Theresa Villiers is likely to be a Government Minister with responsibility for roads. Nigel will be there lobbying for better road infrastructure for Dover, he will have met her and he will have discussed our local situation. Not only here on the ground in Dover but at meetings and Conferences too. Are you telling me that this 'on the ground' visit will not have helped his lobbying process?
And, Howard, no it was not just a photo call. I was not involved, though I could have met her, I was otherwise engaged that day, but I am aware that it was more than a photo call.
This, however is not just a question of this particular visit. The critism has been launched against all such visits by leading politicians of whatever Party. If aimed at this visit then the stupidity of this line of attack would be more starky emphasised, given that it would not be aimed at the party in power with the ability to take the action needed.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#12
The only Tory politician that could make any difference in this instance is David Cameron. Why? ...simply because of the huge amount of media power he brings with him. Its the media power that makes the difference, as DC is not in government. With National BBCTV news, Sky News, ITN, maybe even NBC, and not to mention the might of Fleet St, from the Daily Mail to the Times coming with him, then bobs yer uncle, the government would suddenly be under immense pressure to do something. Thats how it works. They re-act to pressure.
Villiers visit, drawing attention to how awful the A258 is, was covered by the local papers and thats it, but this is preaching to us locals, to the already converted.We all know all this already. The coverage is unlikely to go further, its unlikely to reach the ears in Downing st...so therefore at the end of the day it becomes a photo -op. Perhaps a concerned photo-op I grant you. I cant see why you have difficulty accepting that one BarryW.
I did say in my first post that it at least draws attention to our A258 plight. But we need to move on from just drawing attention to it. We already know about it bigtime around these parts.
Guest 654- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 169
#13
Jan T and all;
Its not just about Opposition parties visiting or ministers themselves, lets recall that the Channel tunnel rail link coming to Dover would have been achieved by visits from ministers coming to Dover and Gwyn making sure Dover's case was heard
on top of this councils/agencies all worked together to make sure they were all singing from same song sheet and it happened.
So Paulb I wouldn't say these visits are not achieving because they do, we cannot isolate ourselves, as we do need the support of many other MP'S from all different parties across the country to help our cause
On Jans comment on MP visits, all I can say is that when Gwyn was in opposition I did get an invite to ost of the MP's that visited Dover, LIKE baz I couldn't always attend but I did get an invite.
At the end of the day does it matter who goes,? not realy,
Like in all walks of life those MP's that come you get the best out of them in the short time there here.
I saw realy good MP's and some not so good.
I saw Mp's able to relate to local people and some not willing to.
But you have to use everyone to the best of there ablities and get out of them all best uou can and if that means them visiting Dover so be it, many have vision, its how you channel them into Dover's vision while they are here.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#14
You ignore some important factors PaulB and are looking at things in a much too restricted manner.
You exaggerate the role of the Opposition leader in this respect. (still trying not to be Party political.) The local road problems for a start is not something DC can or would get involved with in that way. It is not a leadership role and would not have the impact you say.
In the case of the Conservatives it is a case or preparing the way for Government. Informing and educating the leading politicians of our local problems. Its about influencing the priorities for when they get into Government, in this case trying to ensure that the improvements we want are scheduled in the road programme and placed as high as possible in importance. It is a matter of competing with other areas for this priority, that means a lot of work lobbying and showing these politicians the local situation and influencing them. It does not stop with a visit, ask Nigel about the consistent hard work he was involved in to get the rail link.
What would you say if we did not do this?
What if she visited and nothing was said about the interests of Dover? What if she went away after a good lunch without seeing the problems we have locally? You and the editor of the Dover Express would be complaining about our being too inward looking, navel gazing and a wasted opportunity. What then in two years time and other areas get their road problems on the list because they have not missed such opportunities to lobby for their areas? Do you want Dover to be forgotten and left behind?
Think about what you are saying. You and Simon Finlay are not making any sense at all.
Guest 656- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,262
#15
Jeez! where would our wierd and wonderful world of politics be without journalism, it would be like a pub without beer, Heaven forbid!
Guest 663- Registered: 20 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,136
#16
Ok keith Iagree but sometimes us lower down the scale would like to think that our views are being heard, and I gess there has to be a certin amount of journalism to come into that, as you say good and bad in all.
like anyone who cares we just want the best for Dover.
Guest 654- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 169
#17
Jan
Those lower down the scale? no idea what that means.
I have no Idea who was invited by Gwyn or his office but it did often come from many different wards all with differing issues.
I was always a little cog in the party, probably even smaller now
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#18
getting back to journalism, can anyone imagine what it would be like without the media?
it would just be propaganda from our betters that would be published.
we have mr finlay, mr tutthill and mr boland that all have good days when they expose the bulls**t that emanates
from the higher ups.
i am a frequent critic of our gutter press, but each one in turn, has the great expose now and again.
