Terry Nunn
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,316
Following on from last week's story in the local press about a lady who was fined for over staying her welcome in Aldi's car park this might interest you.
I've just got back from a monthly visit to Lidl in Folkestone. New parking rules are in force.
When you get your receipt you will see that it has a barcode on the bottom. In the packing area are some terminals. First you scan the barcode then enter the car registration thus avoiding being fined.
How many people get to this point and then panic I wonder as they don't know the reg number?
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
John Buckley
- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
Strangely enough there seems to have been a lot about this in the news lately, papers, tv and radio.
In my view yet another good example of legalised theft where the civil penalty charge ( it's not a "fine" as it's not issued by the local authority etc. ) is way disproportionate to the misdemeanour actually committed.
I had the misfortune to get one of these a few weeks back. At the request of the Home Office I had to take my wife to a participating post office in order to get her finger prints and photo taken etc., for a biometric ID card. ( more expense and hassle but that's another story! ) The nearest post office for this function was at Ahsford which is where we set off for. Believe it or not, apart from visiting the hospital or the train station I've never really been anywhere near the town as such so not overfamiliar with the layout etc. and one worry was where to park.
However, on getting close to where we thought we needed to be we spotted a Lidl supermarket and knowing that we wouldn't be long, more of an in and out job, we nipped in there and parked up and proceeded to the PO. On returning the heavens opened up so we had to run for it to get back to the car.
A few days later I received the "penalty charge notice" stating that only the first ten minutes were free and as I hadn't registered my number ( presumably in the store? ) they wanted £90 off me, but only £45 (bargain!) if I paid up quick.
Now I fully accept and understand that as a company Lidl have no duty whatsoever to provide me with free parking, but I genuinely never saw any of the so called "clearly visible signs" otherwise it would have been stupid to ignore them. I would also accept and pay say a ten or twenty quid charge for flouting their rules but £90 or even £45 is having a laugh just for being a few minutes over that allowed.
I have no intention of paying this charge and await the usual threatening letters that these private profit making companies are so good at. I will see if they actually bother to take me to court, from what I understand most cases at that stage get dropped owing to the time and cost of a court hearing.
We will no doubt see in the coming weeks/months!
Terry Nunn- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,316
What I find appalling is that the DVLA sells, at a profit, the details of the registered keeper to any anyone who will pay.
Terry
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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,058
Since we are having a moan about parking here's mine. We had guests over the Christmas period. One of our guests had parked outside my house which is an 'up to two hours' for anyone else but Residents Parking Permit Zone otherwise.
I had checked the DDC website which stated :-
Free on-street parking
All other parking restrictions, like yellow lines will continue to be enforced throughout the district
There is no 'yellow line' outside my house. On 30/12/16 the car was given a 'parking ticket' along with half the cars in the street!
Needless to say I appealed as follows:-
Dear Sir,
I was surprised to find that one of our guests had a parking ticket attached to his car whilst parked outside Marlinspike Hall this morning.
I had checked the DDC website for the parking restrictions and it reads as follows:-
· Free on-street parking
· All other parking restrictions, like yellow lines will continue to be enforced throughout the district
Outside our house there is no yellow line . Furthermore since the DDC website made no comment that spaces in resident's parking areas, where there is no yellow line but there is normally a 2 hour restriction were to be enforced, I took it that these spaces would be defined as 'free on-street' parking.
Had I known otherwise the car would have been parked in one of the suspended pay parking spaces on the opposite side of the street.
I have tried my best to conform to restrictions as outlined on the DDC web-page but would suggest that the information there is at best ambiguous and at worse misleading.
Might I suggest that next time parking restrictions are suspended you print something like 'all other parking restrictions, like yellow lines and restricted parking in such as resident parking zones'.
I would be grateful to be contacted asap to be informed that the penalty charge is not being pursued.
The vehicle has now been moved.
The appeal was turned down and I ended up paying my guest's £25 fine. The annoying thing is that had he parked on the other side of the road where one normally has to buy a ticket he could have parked for free over the whole period.
That's life. My stupid. Hopefully this years announcement of 'free parking' in the district will be less ambiguous? Doh!
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Chris- Forum Admin
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Oct 2009
- Posts: 357
I wonder if the new Lidl at Whitfield will have the same parking rules, or if they wont bother given there's very little nearby that doesn't already have it's own car park.
Captain Haddock, the information from DDC seemed pretty clear, I assume their website said roughly the same as the press release they sent out?
https://www.dover.uk.com/news/2016/free-parking-in-dover-this-christmas - maybe you got confused between parking charges and parking restrictions?
John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
Terry Nunn wrote:What I find appalling is that the DVLA sells, at a profit, the details of the registered keeper to any anyone who will pay.
Terry
So much for data protection!
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,058
Chris wrote:maybe you got confused between parking charges and parking restrictions?
Yes I did. I am not particularly stupid. It said 'free on-street parking'. I found it bloody expensive. So did others.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Guest 1997- Registered: 3 Mar 2017
- Posts: 148
I was led to believe, via a separate on-line discussion, that certain councillors were willing to and indeed even adept at taking up the cases of failed penalty charge notice appeals. It surprised me to hear this at the time and now I'm wondering if it really is the case.
In the Lidl case, it is obviously a question of civil contract. If there is any doubt at so to whether the conditions of parking were clear, then I doubt they will follow it up as a small claim. It would be interesting to hear the outcome though.
Re DVLA, I've never heard of a case where ownership details of a vehicle driven on public roads was considered as private data. Again, it would be interesting to know for sure.
Andy B
- Location: dover
- Registered: 10 Nov 2012
- Posts: 1,817
I know of someone that overstayed the parking in Aldi and was sent a fine through the post which they ignored.A few more letters followed which were also ignored and heard no more.I,m not saying that its the right or wrong way but its something i know of.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,873
I seem to remember reading somewhere that as it is private land you have no obligation to pay but I might have got that wrong.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
Same thing happened to my neighbour Andy, got a large "fine" for overstaying at a service station near Heathrow only because, like many people, he truly didn't see the warning notices although it was nighttime. He also ignored the threatening letters that ensued and then heard no more, that was about four years ago now.
In post #5 Chris asked whether the new Lidl at Whitfield will have a similar type of parking arrangement, my guess is that it will based on the fact that there's easy money to be made by the vultures that operate the "management" of car parks.
Ever wondered what happened to the clampers that had their dodgy practices somewhat curtailed, perhaps they've now gone "legit" and become a "professional" body with the full backing of the law!
I hope that your right Jan, but fair enough, if you've broken the rules perhaps it's right that a penalty is charged, but it's the rip-off amounts that they try to extract from us that gets my goat, a fine that bears no relation to the misdemeanour committed.
Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
I would suggest that you check out the forum about parking on the Money Supermarket website.
It shows how to respond to these rip-off artists, and gives an interesting insight into some of the dodgy tactics they use to separate you from your money, even to the extent of having a debt collection agency set up as a second company.
Finding out the history of the owners of these companies can be very interesting too.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
I think all parking should come under the control of the local councils. that would put a stop to all this.
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Guest 1033- Registered: 23 Aug 2013
- Posts: 509
One more thing that might interest some of you, do Lidl have (or need) planning permission changes to charge for parking, and does the ANPR camera need planning permission to be sited ?
A cinema chain was forced to get retrospective planning for their camera on a pole after its use was challenged. I sympathise with Lidl customers who are unable to park, but I think these anpr camera systems are a very poor way of enforcing things.
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Guest 1467- Registered: 30 Jan 2015
- Posts: 149
John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
Some interesting points raised above but I found the following unsurprising:-
"Supreme Court judges ruled in the Barry Beavis case that £85 was not excessive for a 56-minute overstay, and that fines have a "useful" role to play as a deterrent."
Yeah right, no doubt not "excessive" if you're in a top paid job, but to most of us who live and have to struggle in the real world it certainly is! As I said previously, this is simply legalised theft aided and abetted by our so called legal system.
John Buckley- Registered: 6 Oct 2013
- Posts: 615
Just as an update to my original posting, if anybody’s interested, the last I heard on this matter was a “Final Demand” received at the end of last September giving me fourteen days to pay up or endure visits from a debt collection agency, bailiffs, legal proceedings, attachment of earnings order, a court order to freeze my bank account and having my credit rating affected ( as if that would bother me! )
The only thing that they haven’t threatened me with is to be shot at dawn!
However, I’m not totally counting any chickens just yet, but since then I’ve heard nothing more from these chancers so hope that they’ve now given up.
If the initial “fine” had been reasonable, say twenty quid, I may well have paid up to avoid the hassle but I object to being ripped off by these legalised car park cowboys.
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