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    excellent summary from roger, just a bit to add here.

    my feeling when we went in and the discussion started was that they were out to flannel us with council speak.

    after a short while terry interjected and despite platitudes refused to accept the pre prepared stuff.

    the discussion then moved onto a different level with everybody having a chance to speak and taking the opportunity to listen.

    i feel that both sides learned a lot, especially the importance of communication.

    vic and john got mentioned in despatches too.

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