Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
14 December 2009
10:2734868#1
Dr Stephen Venner who made something of an inconsequential impact while Bishop of Dover, someone correct me if Im wrong, has started off his new career as Bishop with the Armed Forces in controversial style by stating that there is much to be admired in the Taliban's committment to their faith and to their determination in the fight. He also praised their committment to each other.
Hmmm yes...perhaps there is something admirable about the way they stick together. Lets face it, this humble group of essentially mountainous habitants are resolutely fighting against the accumulated masses of western power, and by all accounts are not losing. So yes perhaps their dogged resistance is to be admired in some ways. The oft used TV pictures showing them slowly making their way through mountainous regions on their motorcycles, with ancient Kalishnikov weapons slung over their shoulders, is quite an image.
However is this the kind of statement a newly appointed Bishop in his role as Bishop to the Armed Forces should be making. He is after all the very person responsible for the religious aspect of the lives of our own troops, he is responsible for their well being, for their morale. Should he be saying this. What PR school of advanced thought did he go to? Talking up the opposition is not a good move in my book and I suspect the government propogandists will be spitting feathers this morning!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
14 December 2009
13:0834877#2
sounds like he will be as successful in his new job as he was in his old job.
he seems to think that the conflict is like an olympic event, may the best chap win etc.
i doubt whether our forces people will be impressed by his utterings.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
14 December 2009
14:2034883#3
I have just seen this story featured on the lunchtime news...its blown up bigger than I thought it would initially, but you can understand why. I snatched this pic off the TV..wasnt ready for it...but it shows Kate Singleton discussing the issue with the BBC's religious correspondent with a picture of the hapless Bishop in between. To be fair to him though he seems to have made these comments earlier, some weeks ago, and they have only just seen the light of day.
He is now backpeddling furiously, as given his new job the comments are inappropriate. Not only has he annoyed HMG, the Military, but also the Muslim Council. So quite a scattering of own goals there..
But is this another indication of just how out of touch the churches are...now when we may need them most??
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
14 December 2009
14:4834884#4
They should just get rid of him and that will be a end to it,the way he thinks he should not have got the job in the first place it was a own goal again.
14 December 2009
17:1934888#5
Calm down, people. He quite simply said we should not be part of the media frenzy to portray these people as two-headed fire-breathing devil worshipping ogres. They do nasty things and have different beliefs, they hurt us and people we care about, and we don't like what they stand for - that shouldn't stop us seeing them as human beings with all kinds of baggage and all kinds of qualities. It is when we cease to see "the enemy" as human that we also lose some of our humanity - that doesn't mean we condone or even sympathise, it just means we see the person. Wasn't it the Nazis who saw Jews as vermin? Surely we don't want to follow that route? Nasty people can have skills, talents and attributes that we could otherwise admire - let's not lose sight of that. there is more to a human being than the sum of what s/he has done.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
14 December 2009
18:1134891#6
While I quite agree with Bern on seeing others as human beings in terms of a religious leader to the British Armed Forces he should be aware of the 'political' ramifications of his statements. Like everything else religion has its political element and to most practising Moslems, certainly in the west, the Taliban are seen as extremists. I am sure he would not accept someone making similar statements about, as an example, the radical Christians of the Ku Klux Klan.
Unlike moderate followers of all religions the Taliban are only "commited to eachother" in that they think everyone else who doesn't follow their narrow interpretation of their doctrine can be treated as they see fit.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
14 December 2009
18:5434895#7
Good points above Bern. The trouble in the western world is we don`t go to the root cause of the trouble. It`s not enough to say Bin Laden`s a terrorist, or this and that. The fact is it`s his religion, and he and other`s believe in their religion. Two failed suicide bombers both had no remorse for what they were about to do. They believed they were going to paradise, amongst all the other martyrs and prophets. It`s religion again, it`s drummed into them as children, it`s all they know. It`s not Blair, Bush, Brown or any other leader, it`s religion. Yet, why doesn`t the media ever mention it instead of keep on about terror? Some of these suicide bombers are well educated people.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
14 December 2009
19:0134896#8
Anglican clergy are very good at playing politics when it suits them (BTW, I'm Anglican myself - I'm not having a gratuitous dig at them for the sake of it), especially the higher echelons of the General Synod. Either the Church of England has appointed an idiot (likely) or Dr Venner is paving the way for an anti-war stance (also likely); it wouldn't be the first time the C of E would have been conspicuous in its attempt to undermine the British military - I recall Robert Runcie taking a similar stance during the Falklands War. I was working in a very sensitive area of the Civil Service at the time in close proximity to lots of military personnel with scrambled egg on their headwear, and I recall lots of mutterings about the C of E at the time because of what was seen as anti 'our boys' codswallop emanating from Lambeth Palace.
True friends stab you in the front.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
14 December 2009
19:1934900#9
colin
religion is not the driving force behind mr bin laden.
his main aim has always been to get rid of the saudi royal family, his reasoning being that they are corrupt, in league with the united states and big business there, and have allowed foreign troops onto saudi soil.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
14 December 2009
20:3734905#10
Sorry Howard, my point was more about what drives these suicide bombers to do what they do. Bin Laden is the driving force behind them, and they do these deeds on what they`re brought up with in believing. Bin Laden must have a certain amount of belief I`d have thought?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
14 December 2009
21:0334906#11
i think you will find that our friend osama ties himself in with islam because it suits his purposes, as you say attracts suicide bombers and the like.
i seem to remember president saddam making sure he was on his knees in a mosque on the telly in iraq, just to keep the population happy.
neither osama or saddam behave anything like the muslims i have met.
don't forget the murderous nutcases in ulster used to try to attach themselves to the various churches there.
14 December 2009
21:4934908#12
Anyone who admires the Taliban, a cowardly bunch of suicide bombing, explosive-planting, Jew-hating, anti-western, murdering, misogynistic, ultra-religious fascists is clearly not thinking straight or is a member of the Taliban themselves. I see nothing there to admire. Except maybe the desire to behead as many people as possible, plan as many acts of terrorism as possible, and embark on the expansionist quest to spread Islam to all parts of the world. I suppose you can admire the hatred that drives them, the harsh death penalties they inflict on their own people for often trivial crimes, or the way they have contributed to the Internet's ever-growing collection of real-life murder videos.
Admire the Taliban? Gimme a break!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
14 December 2009
22:5734918#13
not like you to sit on the fence rick.
the taleban would not have much appeal to us in the west, but they have enjoyed a lot of support in afghanistan for a very long period, otherwise they would not have survived this long.
we do not have to live in a lawless society that afghans outside of the middle class suburbs of kabul have to endure.
a large number of the population accept that they will have to go without haircuts, go to the mosque regularly in return for not being mugged, burgled, raped or murdered.
there is also the issue of foreign troops on their soil, i know how i would feel if the same happened here.
15 December 2009
08:1134927#14
Howard makes a good point that we should remember: religion is always corrupted by people whose only interest is power. Bin Laden manipulates the easily led and the warped throguh the medium of reliogion, as H points out, much as many Ulstermen were corrupted by bigots, and others throughout the world. Faith isn't the problem, it's what people do with it. People who want to kill and maim, who want to manipulate and control others, will find a way. Sadly because of the nature of youth and the nature of religion, it is often the easiest tool to use.
