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    I am afraid that I am with Sid on this one. I was wholly committed to europe when it was smaller and I regret that it went into getting in all the minor countries. I sincerely hope we Dont allow Turkey to join - or indeed any other until we have stability.

    however we are in and those who shout about how we can get out havent considered the alternative - that is us becoming ,very rapidly a third world country.

    After all we are full of immigrants many of whom are in the black economy or draining our resources by sending money home. It cant be stopped no matter what is promised as the damage is done. Most of our major companies are foreign owned look at the high st and find an original british name ( thank you Abbey national). and we dont manufacture much that cant be bought abroad cheaper and we have no economic natural recources. On top of which the City of London can soon move to germany or Hong Kong.

    I do not believe in the idealistic view that our Empire will save us - and American investment is pulling out rapidly ( eg pfizers).

    We are a sorry bunch really living on past glories and believing we are better than we really are. What we need is a bit more realism and hard work and less whingeing. Time to roll up sleeves - bring in later retirement stop mass imigration, yes, but work with europe and be a leader in it as its the only mass market that we have been invited to ( heaven knows why they want us but they do). stop all the soft legislation and let business get moving.

    well thats my rant over - Ill go home now to my lasagna and chip!

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