Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
Just to show that Keith and I dont always agree(but might be friends)
1. Don't know not me.
2.Dont know dont suppose so
3.Betteshanger Tilmanstone or Snowdown
4.Because they are pit-heads,the only mine in Dover was Sheakespeare Colliery and they got as much coal out of that as you opening your wallet to buy me a hot chocolate.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Terry Nunn
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,302
I did mention Samphire Ho John.
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Guest 654- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 169
John
surprized your willing to accept that even though your unsure if consultation took place that your happy for it to me moved at high cost as well.
Also who decides which village?
Sounds very undemocratic to me
Its not about where it goes, but who would benefit
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
I have said that in my umble opinion it should go to foulmead,that is me saying it Keith not anyone else,as Betteshanger was the biggest pit,and fowlmead has grown from the slag heap that it left,if consultation did take place,it may have been before my time on the Council.You know how good some consultations are,1Cllr asked 2 others,but the fees are incredible,that will get Sue going,as far as cost goes again not sure.
Yes i would like it in Dover,but Dover is more about the Sea not mining,and remember I have an intrest as I'm the only socialist from Sandwich
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
what's a socialist john?
i thought that neil kinnock eradicted them.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
He tried Howard,but forgot I was hiding in Sandwich,then I escaped to Dover and never looked back,funnily enough as I have said before my mentor was a lovely lady called Pauline Leith who son sits opposite me on the Blue side
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
yes, i have met the man john, does he work for the home office?
if it is the same one, quite a clever pragmatic man.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
yes, i have met the man john, does he work for the home office?
if it is the same one, quite a clever pragmatic man.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
Dover started it all in this area....
The Dover borehole was commenced in 1886 by the Kent Coalfields Syndicate Ltd on the site of the old Channel Tunnel works at Shakespeare Cliff, 3 miles west of Dover. It was stopped in 1893 at a depth of 2,230ft, having passed through 1,190ft of the Coal Measures and proved the existence of several coal seams. As a result of this, it was decided to sink a shaft down to mine the coal, especially a 4ft seam at a depth of 2,172ft. Shaft No. 1 (Brady Pit) was commenced near the borehole in July 1896. It was 17ft in diameter and rapidly passed through the Chalk, Chalk Marl and Gault Beds until it reached the Lower Greensand Beds in October at a depth of 366ft. At this point, so much water seeped into the shaft that it had to be abandoned.
The problem was that the Greensand Beds were pervious and contained a great amount of water which was held in position by the impervious Gault Beds above. As soon as the shaft pierced this cover, the water was released from pressure and was forced up the shaft. This is the principle of artesian wells and a similar effect can be obtained by placing an empty bucket into water and piercing a hole in the bottom — water will be forced into the bucket from below until it reaches the level of the surrounding water. Since the Greensand Beds here are at an angle, the level of the 'surrounding water' will correspond to the highest point that the Beds rise to in the area. This happens to be under the English Channel and so the Greensand will never run dry! In this case, water rose to within 40ft of the top of the shaft as it also had in the borehole.
Shortly after Shaft No. 2 (Simpson Pit) was started nearby and was slightly wider at 20ft diameter. Having experienced water problems with the first shaft, the precaution was taken of putting down 15ft boreholes from the shaft bottom as it was sunk in order to give advance warning of flooding. At 10.55pm on 6th March 1897, a team of 14 men were working in the shaft bottom when the top bed of the Lower Greensand was struck. Initially there was no sign of water and there was no indication of danger until a few minutes later, when it was found that the sand was wet. Suddenly, water shot up into the shaft from underneath and only 6 men were able to escape by climbing up the iron rings supporting the timber lining. The hoppit (large bucket) was at the surface being emptied when cries were heard from below. It could only hold 3 men at a time and was quickly lowered twice to rescue survivors clinging to the shaft walls. Two men went down in the hoppit a third time but the water had risen 80ft up the shaft and they could see no more survivors. It took over a month before workers were able to pump out the shaft and recover the 8 bodies and work was suspended. It was subsequently found that the water level in the borehole and Brady Pit had dropped 127ft at the time of the accident. The probable explanation is that, under a head of about 265ft of water from both the nearby borehole and Brady Pit, sufficient pressure was exerted on the water in the Lower Greensand to burst through the few feet of hard sandstone and clay that formed the bottom of the shaft.
Despite this disaster, sinking later continued but Dover Colliery earned a reputation for costing a lot of money with little result. It was not until 1912 that the first (and only) consignment of coal was sent from the mine and this was only 120 tons! There was a big celebration to commemorate this but there were strong rumours that the coal had actually been brought from elsewhere to impress disillusioned shareholders. Needless to say, the colliery did not last much longer although iron ore was extracted for a short time.
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 656- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,262
I just love Marek's viewpoint and poetic take on the miner's statue looking out over the horizon, taking in a view that they would never have seen whilst toiling away at the coalface in the abyss. It is a fresh and cleansing look at what was always there and never seen whilst they sweated to bring the nations fuel to the surface to power the factories and warm our homes.
It would be a sad loss for Dover to lose yet another of our attractions which not only brings to mind the blood and sweat that our miners spent underground but also the tunnellers who have brought us closer to and made us part of the european mainland.
That's a great picture PaulB.
Guest 648- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 258
Bern,I was trying to inform people on this forum a decision has been made.I was not on any committee which decided this .There has been a lot of discussion with the mining communuties and some leading Labour councillors were part of those discussion.I know a little of the history etc as it comes under the responsibility of the musuem believe it or not.I believe a compromise solution has been found..Im just keeping you informed.Its the same with DTIZ its no good discussing something about what or should not be done when decisions have been made.I hope you have all got to see the LDF plans.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
enough prevaricating susan, what is happening to our miner?
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
Despite Dover's former mining community this town is primarily associated with port and military connections in the eyes of most people. It is not generally associated with mining despite the (slightly obscure) associated history. Even without the local coalfields, Dover would still be here at probably roughly the same size.
Some of the Dover District villages were set up specifically to provide a community for local miners in the area of their pits. For example, Aylesham was specifically built in 1926 to house miners and their families.
This is the reason I believe the statue should be moved to Snowdown, Betteshanger, Ayleham, Snowdown or Timanstone - the coal mines were their raison d'etre. Without the mines they simply would not have been developed. These communities deserve their own statue to celebrate who they were so perhaps it should be moved to a community with a greater direct association.
Howard - Socialists are like bacteria: the more you try to eradicate us the stronger we become...come the revolution.....
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Scotchie thanks a million for that info on the Dover mines..its an absolute gem as I myself (being a lowly foreigner!) know little of the mining past.I found it very interesting indeed and sad to know that miners lost their lives here in Dover. So following on from that...Dover does have a mining history so whats with the fuss about the statue? It belongs as much here as anywhere. As I say its very popular and a great shame to lose it.
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
I can see this argument from both sides. The miner should be in one of the mining villages in one way, but how many will see it tucked away out there? Being where it is now it is seen by locals and tourists alike and as Paul said, it's very popular. Not many tourists visit our villages so a whole host of people wouldn't see it if it were in one of those which would be a shame.
Two things I would find interesting would be
a. How many of the residents of the mining community villages actually have a connection with the mines? and
b. If a ballot were to be held of these residents, how many of them would say they wanted the statue in their community rather than where it is now?
My late neighbour's husband was a miner at Snowdown colliery but they lived in Dover for over 50 years, I wonder how many others lived in Dover.
Like Colette I love Marek's thoughts on it all. On balance I personally would like it to stay where it is, but sadly it's not up to us
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
For what it's worth the miner statue was never designed to be displayed on Dover Seafront. It was sculpted in 1966 and put on display at Richborough Power Station for over thirty years. It was only moved to Dover in 1997 when the station closed. Powergen then donated it to DDC who decided to place it on the seafront.
Plans have been underway to move and replace it with a more fitting monument since late 2006.
Copy and paste this link if interested:
http://www.dover-kent.co.uk/cgi-bin/newspro/fullnews.cgi?newsid1162201530,58090,
I too like the miner statue very much. However, I think it should be on Deal seafront, rather than tucked away out of sight to the majority in one of the former pit villages.
Deal as a town was pivotal to the former mining community and the statue's placing on Deal's ever-improving seafront would make the most sense.
Let's hope that sense does indeed prevail.
On another note, great to meet many of you - Mike Webb, Maggie SK, Vic Matcham et al - at the Walter Tull event at Crabble Corn Mill yesterday.
Mike and Maggie: my Mum sends you both her very best wishes.
Regards,
Andy
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
It is a horrible statue, so ugly and no real asset to Dover.
A Merchant Navy memorial would be far more appropriate.
Glad to hear the miner is being moved somewhere else. Deal would be better but a mining village, any of them, would be better still...
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
With all the postings on here no one except Barry has said anything negative about the Statue,wether it stays or as Sue said it is going to where no one knows,I think it is a Statue that shows the struggle of the working man in his harsh work place,perhaps as Barry's hero Mrs Thatcher is coming to town she should give us a few ideas where it should go.I bet she says the same as Barry.
Barry the chip of the Maggie Thatcher block.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!