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I agree with all of the above!! Discipline is lacking in many households, and children need to learn barriers early. But I believe, and my children are (most of the time!) evidence that parents do not need to be cruel, or violent, or fearsome, to gain respect and good behaviour from their children. The only thing a battering (and what is the cane, or a smack, or a wallop, except a battering?) teaches is that the bully wins, and that's not a lesson I want my kids to learn. I am not one who says that smacking should be a crime - I do not see what criminalising it would achieve - but I do think we need to re-evaluate how we view children. Cameron is right ( shoot me now, for Gods sake!) when he says we are too cautious to offend - too sensitive to risk saying it like it is. We need to be brave, to lead by example, to cherish and nurture our young people, and be honest with them. Too right, we need to discipline children, but our definitions of discipline seem to be at odds. I remember only too well the whack from the nuns crucifix when I was at school - often for nothing at all. It taught me nothing except that fairness does not just happen, that being good does not bring its own rewards, and that nuns are a breed apart....!! To lead by example we need to know what example we want to set - I don't want mine to be that violence is ok, or that killing people legally is acceptable.