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    We agree on the positive discrimination issue - but only because, due to some militancy and positive discrimination in the past it is no longer needed or effective!! (If Pankhurst et al had not been militant in their time, I would probably not be able to vote.......!!)In its time is was both of those things. HHarman does embarass me somewhat, it has to be said.....

    We will have to agree to disagree about Thatcher - the shuddering social wreck that was and is Thatcher still causes me to despair of humanity in quiet, still moments....

    I still do not believe that the UK was any more (or less) responsible than other wealthy nations in this recession. UK needs to bear its guilt but not beat its breast.

    I suppose it is futile to point out that Labour inevitably inherits Tory mistakes and vice versa, and that by the time some of them come to light they are viewed as the miseeeds of the current government.....? Actually, I don't disagree about Labour and business, although I don't think Tory business proposals are any more palatable, for different reasons. neither seems to have found a decent middle ground sans ideology.

    I despair for the education system, BarryW - free, enlightening education should be a given in a decent and wealthy, free society. No need for the mickey mouse degrees in sock darning and canary husbandry if children were enabled to find their own metier and had the opportunity to follow their pathway, supported and encouraged by society, and valued for their contribution. This system makes me sad.

    There - rant over!!

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