Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Today David Cameron is speaking at the Imperial War Museum about the government's initial thoughts of how the start of WW1 should be commemorated.
It seems to me that Remembrance Day today strikes a much bigger chord with the public than it did 10-20 years ago even though many of those who participated in the world wars have passed on. This is almost certainly to do with our losses in current and recent conflicts.
So what should we be doing in respect of The Great War, the so-called war to end all wars? It is not long now to the 100th anniversary of that assassination in Sarajevo that plunged the world into conflict.
Should we just have the normal Remembrance Day events?
Should it be marked in some special way?
Should Remembrance Sunday then be quietly dropped once the 100th anniversary of the end of WW1 is over as some have suggested?
Me: I think we must, as a nation, come together and do something very special to mark this day and Remembrance Day must continue every year to remind us of those who sacrificed their lives for our freedom not only in WW1 and WW2 but also other conflicts. We must remember them....and thank them.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,835
Keep Remembrance Day as a day to focus on all the conflicts where our military have died or been injured with less and less emphasis on WW1 and WW2 as the years progress.
I could not agree more with Barry's last paragraph.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Doubtless the anniversary of the beginning of this great waste of life will be marked, in the main, because it (perhaps) falls within this present Government's term.
Who lit the flame of that olympic slaughter was he who thought that the loss of that one life was worth the loss of millions.
Perhaps a concert from the Pied Piper of Hamelin?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
world war 1 was supposed to be the war to end all wars, personally i have never worked out what it was over - much easier the second one to understand.
there will always be conflicts that we will be involved in and inevitably more will die so i think to stick with the current remembrance day is the right thing to do.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
"The First World War has sometimes been labelled, with reason, "a family affair". This is derived from the reality that many of the European monarchies - many of which fell during the war (including those of Russia, Germany and Austria-Hungary) - were inter-related.
The British monarch George V's predecessor, Edward VII, was the German Kaiser's uncle and, via his wife's sister, uncle of the Russian Tsar as well. His niece, Alexandra, was the Tsar's wife. Edward's daughter, Maud, was the Norwegian Queen, and his niece, Ena, Queen of Spain; Marie, a further niece, was to become Queen of Romania.
Despite these familial relations - nine Kings attended Edward's funeral - European politics was all about power and influence, of protection and encirclement. Thus the tangled web of alliances which sprung up in the wake of the rise of the newly united German Empire in 1871."
From...
http://www.firstworldwar.com/origins/causes.htmIgnorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
P.S.
Was it not said that this war was won on the deck-chairs surrounding the playing fields of some school or other?...
From the same source as above.
"William Joseph Stones was a coal miner who at 23, had enlisted as a volunteer in Crook, near Bishop Auckland in County Durham on 9th March 1915.
Earlier in the War, Stones would have been rejected for his lack of physical stature, but rising casualty lists and the insatiable demand for reinforcements caused the army to relax standards and accept under-aged and men of small stature into bantam regiments.
Stones was 5'2", weighed 128 lbs and had a 35inch chest. He was a married man, with two daughters.
Stones was an exemplary soldier during his nine months of service at home and after the 19 Durham Light Infantry were drafted overseas at the end of January 1916. His record and conduct during six gruelling months of trench warfare in Northern France was recognised in his promotion to Corporal and then after to Lance Sergeant.
Stones, his colleagues in the 19DLI, and all the men in the 35th Division suffered a mauling in July and August on the Somme, and the onset of winter imposed further stress on the survivors.
On the night of 25-26 November 1916, the 19DLI and two other battalions, were holding a section of the Front Line which had been broken up by explosions. It was notoriously insecure and was often raided by parties of either side in order to gather intelligence.
On this night, Stones and Lieutenant Mundy were detailed to raid in the vicinity of the "King's Crater" a huge depression caused by an underground detonation. They were ambushed and Mundy hit by revolver fire, subsequently dying. Stones ran for his life, and was later found, unarmed, by the Battle Police in "a pitiable state of terror".
He was tried by court martial, found guilty of "casting away arms in the presence of the enemy" and executed.
Article submitted by Peter Drake, e-mail.
Biography Reference: Julian Putkowski, King's College."
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
How's about Dover receiving some of this £50m - both a War Memorial for Dover and helping save our heritage ???
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19913000Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
...speechless.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
it should stay for eternaty,with a spical service 2014 and 2018/9,allso for the 39/45 war as well.
Guest 737- Registered: 10 Jan 2012
- Posts: 9
A fitting centenary tribute would be to declare November 11 a permanent public holiday and thereafter Remembrance Day Services take place on the anniversary of the cessation of WW1 hostility's and not the 2nd Sunday of the month through convenience. The rest of Europe already do this.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
John Pegg and others have been pushing for a National War memorial and intending that it be completed by 2014 in time for the 1000th. Anniversary of WW1. Even if it got granted now, I doubt there'd be time.
This would be a very fitting tribute (and a very appropriate location on top of the White Cliffs of Dover) to all those men and women of the Commonwealth who gave their lives for freedom.
Roger
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
John Pegg still thinks it is do-able and is stil pushing, but time is getting tight
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
My grandfather enlisted at 15 and was sent to France, his mother complained that he was underage and got him out.
So her ran of and joined the navy and served on H M S war spite
Come the second word war, after lessons learned he went in to the pits
His pearls of wisdom, keep watching the politicians these fools can stick a rifle on your back.
My other grandfather was not so lucky he's in a war grave in Belgium
And some dickheads sprayed a swastika on the war monument to thank him.
And we will probably see a 2014 poppy burning ceremony from are own dickheads.
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
The War was as much about relieving pent-up international tension after a complex system of shifting alliances that formed and reformed during the 19th century as about any actual cause..
interesting comments by Ian Hislop on his "Stiff Upper Lip" programme last night that we sleepwalked into the war - as if a Stuff Upper Lip alone was enough to stop a bullet.
it is worth questioning why we felt we had to be involved at all, although the simple answer is that we were honouring an alliance commitment.
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
The local newspapers are very interesting reading for WW1, much more so than WW2 when anything of real interest was censored out.
The Dover Express, Telegraph, Standard and others are full of patriotic 'Join Up' adverts at the outbreak of war in 1914. Great recruiting drives were held at the Kings Hall and other locations by the local regiments, especially the Buffs. Locals were encouraged to join up to do their part for King and Country to defeat German 'Kultur', appealing to comradeship and patriotism. These seem to fade away during 1915 and the recruiting drives become more formal and somber.
After the advent of conscription in March 1916 the Dover Express was actually publishing wanted lists of local men of military age who had gone missing. They published names and addresses of locals so that if any of these men were encountered, they could be reported to the military authorities.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
And then shot as so called cowards I suppose Phil.
To me, that was - still is, one of the most disgraceful episodes and actions taken by our side. I would guess it was just a tiny minority who "ran away" as cowards; many were shell-shocked and absolutely scared ridgid.
Roger
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
The causes of the First World War were superficially about the ties and treaties that have been mentioned above. In reality they were more about the preservation of Empire. The rise of German power as demonstrated by the growth of its navy and army threatened Britannia's rule over the waves and the acquisition of territory in Africa and elsewhere. This assassination of Archduke Ferdinand and the alliances provided a legal framework which, since they could have been ignored if chosen, proved about as worthy as the causes for invading Iraq in 2003.
The subsequent loss of 10,000,000 lives through the absence of political courage is a stain that should not be removed from our consciences.
"And all this madness, all this rage, all this flaming death of our civilization and our hopes, has been brought about because a set of official gentlemen, living luxurious lives, mostly stupid, and all without imagination or heart, have chosen that it should occur rather than that any one of them should suffer some infinitesimal rebuff to his country`s pride". Bertrand Russell 1914.
I think the national war memorial on the Western Heights would be a fitting tribute and I would also agree with Neil that November 11th should be a day of remembrance.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
You are certainly correct to say that there was a powder keg of rivalries between the British Empire and the growing German empire to which the assassination of the Archduke provided a spark Mark.
An even bigger tragedy though were the terms of the armistice in 1918 that were so oppressive they led to the Nazi regime and set the world up for the second world war. In a way the events of 1914 led to a period of conflict that didn't end for over 40 years.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Funnily enough, or not, I don't see the period of conflict as over yet, by a long-chalk.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
and the pistol that killed archduke ferdinand can be found in the peace tower in dicksmund belguim.