Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
Twenty years ago to the day Britain witnessed the worst rioting in its history. Three thousand people rampaged through the streets surrounding Trafalger Square in London. The cause of this rioting was the Poll Tax, what one could describe as a tax too far. It marked the demise of Thatcher much to the delight of many people, especially those who had suffered high interest rates, unemployment, bankruptcy and having their homes repossessed as a result of her swingeing reforms.
Politicians are promising severe cuts after the next general election but let's hope that they remember this date 20 years ago when ordinary people protested and said 'enough is enough' for under the surface this time is a simmering dissatisfaction with all politicians and a growing discontent with the number of immigrants that are slowly eroding our culture and way of life.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Yes That was the year that I was taken out of a meeting at the D.D.C. about the poll Tax by the police but got back in again when I put my best suit on and they did not think it was the same person,about 30mins later as I got up and was trying to point my point over and the council walked out, again I was taken out by the police more than one I
might add.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
you are definitely an old style politician vic, not to everyones taste.
i think it was bern who said that she missed the real passionate rabble rousers that made people listen.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
It was Geoffrey Howe's speech that did for her, not this, though the way a potentially good and fair reform of local government finance was implemented was totally screwed up by Nick Ridley and his officials did damage her.
You are mixing a few things up there though Dave1. Might I remind you that the economic problems of 1990/1 were caused by our membership of the European Monetary Union (and the shadowing of the DMark that led to it). That membership was opposed by Mrs T and her adviser Alan Waters but she was up against Labour, Liberals, CBI, Trade Unions, most of the media and the old pro-EEC Tories. For a long time she and Sir Alan fought a lonely battle and gave way in the end to her Chancellor, John Major. The damage that membership did to the economy and the economic reputation of the Conservatives was considerable but was a valuable lesson on why we must never join the Euro.
As for severe cuts, make no mistake there is absolutely no other way to deal with Brown's appalling economic legacy. The need for cuts is greater than any politician will fully admit to. They absolutely must happen and will.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
The reform of the rating system was one of the flagships of the Tory manifesto. It was first implemented in Scotland and its disastrous results there should have been an indication that all was not well. From my, Jo Publics point of view it represented an unfair tax, the political background of it all, as you mention, meant little.
My point about forthcoming cuts is that people have seen politicians fiddling us, banks that crashed, and jobs being lost wholesale due to the world economic downturn. People in such times look and see immigrants entering the country taking jobs at cheaper rates than our own people and now face the prospect of a decline in their standard of living. If cuts are too deep too quick there coud be a backlash resulting in despicable bigots like the BNP gaining more sympathy.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Howard,You seen nothing yet wait till i get on a platform it will be like going back 5 years.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
barry
i cannot believe your post about the EMU.
are you saying that the "iron lady" was pressurised so much by the reds, yellows, unions and media that she just went against her own judgement?
the simple fact is that she led the country into what is now known as "black wednesday" and cost the country a lot of money, and for many of us that afternoon some very urgent bowel movements.
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,023
I remember that night well Vic .Wasnt a glass of water involved .I was sitting where i sit now in the council chamber ,ive moved around a bit .
I said to the chap next to me that chap has changed into a suit .All these years later and you are my neighbour Vic .
As much as I rate Mrs T (best PM since Churchill for sure), I cannot subscribe to the notion that she was pressurised by anyone on this matter. I think it much more likely that she really liked and trusted John Major, and that was her mistake, not just re the EMU, but other matters too.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Thank you for that Sue,I still feel the same today as you will see over the next few weeks.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Sid, Howard etc - it is a matter of public record. Mrs T was totally against EMU with her adviser Alan Waters. The row went on for several years including the period of Nigel Lawson's Chancellorship who started the row by shadowing the DMark. I remember now newspaper headlines callng on her 'to back her brilliant Chancellor'. The pressure was such that she did have to give way in the end to John Major. She and Sir Alan were lonely voices at the time. Do your own news searches to get confirmation. She was up against the whole establishment and yes that did include Labour/Libs/TU/CBI and most of the media, sadly the pro-EEC Tories were relatively strong at the time and added to that unholy alliance.
Oh, Howard - so called Black Wednesday was under John Major's premiership and a couple of years into it. I prefer to call it 'White Wednesday' because it provided the means to crash out of EMU and get the recovery under way.
I remember the day very well, working in finance I was watching the interest rate movements that day with a lot of professional concern. Lamont had to abide with the rules of EMU in defending the pound but it was clear early in the day that it was a token gesture, sterling was on the run and we would crash out, we did and sanity returned to our economy.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
barry
at the end of the day mrs thatcher took us into the emu, her government must take their share of the blame.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Collective responsibility, true Howard. But her opponents cannot claim any particular virtue out of the situation. There is one good thing to emerge though, we learnt a lesson and have not made the even bigger mistake of joining the Euro.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
i dont know so much,emu got the blame for every thing.but it was only a puppet.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
brian
the most expensive puppet ever.
even lord charles did not cost over a billion quid.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
No Howard, what BarryW is saying is, she C..ked up but it was still everyone else's fault. #4
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
What I am saying Gary is that no-one comes out of the EMU debacle with honours. Mrs T at least identified the problem and fought against it even if she lost in the end and had to agree to Major's insistence we go in.
The Cabinet papers of that period will be interesting when they get released.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
ah got you there howard he lived in a million quid suitcase with encrusted catches.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
Nick Ridley and his officials did more than just damage her. I am suprised you scathed him, as he was her henchman for smashing the unions.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I never did like Ridley very much. I always found him too rude and unwilling to listen. He always had an intellectual arrogance about him that I found over inflated. He allowed his officials to take our original poll tax suggestion and twist it out of any resemblance to the 'work up' we had in the late 70's (yes I was part of the very early process in formulating the policy via SE Area YCs). He was certainly a loyalist though but I would not describe him as being a 'henchman' to Mrs T.
