Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
SID;
Please don't keep saying you agree with what I say it won't help me street cred lol
On the port sale; Charlie is makin a determined effort and should be applauded, but theres some questions still remain unanswered, to highlight a few;
1;Keeping the port in British hands has to be a plus if that is achieved
2;Regeneration fund for Dover, wonder how that will be achieved, who guaretee's it
stays in Dover, and Govt are not the only ones to benefit.
3; Some would question if the present board are good for Dover or the port.
4; Locals should be able to have a say and not just out voted or out numbered
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Well I told you all before that the blues would sell the port off and they will I rest my case .
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i would still like to know who would actually buy it in these cash straitened times prior to leasing it out.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Vic - not if Charlie's plan is adopted, thats why we must get behind it.
Howard - Charlie's plan is not about selling the Port at all.... he has worked out a clever structure to keep the Port in the hands of a local trust, the government's dosh (and regeneration money) will come from the operating lease.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
thanks for that explanation barry, i think the penny has dropped now.
let's hope this works out, charlie will become a god down here if it does.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
I agree, Howard - it is gratifying to see how people react when they realise what he is suggesting and the immense benefits from Dover.
Clearly we need to get support around the principal of what he is proposing, get the powers that be to back it and get the detail worked out. It is vital for Charlie to be able to demonstrate local support to have any chance of getting it through.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
Barry this does not fool myself he is just trying to paint over it all, they will try and sell the port but this weekend I will be writing again to the Queen about it.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Vic - you old stick in the mud!!
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
think the plan is woth looking at, but get behind it????not so sure at mo, still those unaswered questions.
Will Dover realy benefit?
will monies stay in Dover regenration fund or whatever
Are the present DH board members best for the job
Very short on guarentees
the plan sounds in parts good
but if Dover is to benefit need more answers
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Keith - answers to those questions will of course be needed, but ..... this is the only alternative to the DHB proposals on the table. To my mind Charlie's idea is the better option for Dover, he will be determined to get a satisfactory Dover result from this. He is staking his career on it after all.
I can make a stab at answering though:
The local trust 'freeholder' idea as outlined would definately benefit Dover and the money would stay in Dover, that is Charlie's aim and that is core to this proposal. In answer to Sid's point, this trust need not be stuffed with politicos and better it isn't, in my view, though some political representation from the local authority might be a good idea.
As for DHB - this is not really a concern, yes they might make a bid to be the operator but whether they succeed or not would depend on the quality of their bid. They are likely to be one of several competing bids.
There are no guarantees in life, if you won't do anything without guarantees then you will get no-where.
This is a great opportunity for Dover, if we get behind it, if Charlie can succeed with our help in persuading the powers that be then will will have a real chance of something of long term value to Dover.
Barry, Tell me if I'm a little slow but I believe that HMG are thinking of selling off the Port of Dover with a view to raising funds which they will off-set against the national overdraft.
How will Charlie's plan help them do this?
Vic, According to my local paper (East Kent Mercury - now 70p - next week's edition to be read down library!) you are retiring from politics? For a glorious moment I thought that this included cyber-space but it would appear not.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Bob- As I understand it the money from the operating lease will go largely to HMG (some to re-generation of Dover).
This will provide a stead flow of funds and while the revenue initially will be a lot less, over the long term it will produce a lot more dosh.
I know Charlie has worked this out and it depends whether he can convince HMG that the long term approach will offer more benefit than a quick buck. part of the equasion must be a political dividend (politicians being politicians....) that is a reason he needs a great deal of support for his proposals.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
I have been told only this week that the company that owns P.O have had talks with the D.H.B. on the sell of the port and what funds were needed to buy it.I must say I do not know if this is true or not and can not back it up.
Dubai Ports own P&O, and the Emirate of Dubai is itself in dire straits despite a huge bail-out from Qatar. The general thrust from Dubai just now is consolidation.
P&O wanted to buy the port several years ago, but failed obviously.
Vic, there is absolutely no substantiation to your claim about a sell off now that Labour are no longer in power.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,700
Now lets be honest here
Guy of Gisbourne, sorry George Osborne is desperately looking around for stuff to cut or sell and the Port of Dover along with the other 41 trust ports (particularly Harwich, Port of Tyne, Milford Haven, Plymouth) are ideal for raising money.
As for Champagne Charlie's plan it seems remarkably like an amalgam of proposals made by various people on here (Barry W, Andy, myself etc.) on the original thread about the possible sale of the port
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
'Champagne Charlie' is a bit unfair Ross. That does not reflect on the character or personality of our MP. Must try harder!!!
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,700
It is interesting that you only pick up on that tongue in cheek monicker for our new MP.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Looks like the Spectator is backing our Charlie:-
'The Big Society is a great idea. But its problem has always been that it lacks definition; voters and even some Tory MPs aren't quite sure what it means. But an idea being floated today gives you a sense of its practical and political potential. It is being suggested that the community right to buy, the idea that the community should have first refusal on any asset being sold off, should be applied to the port of Dover.
The last government wanted to privatise the port but the new MP for Dover, a Tory called Charlie Elphicke has proposed that a community trust be allowed to buy the port and then lease it out to an operator. This scheme would provide the instant cash hit that the Treasury needs but would also be politically acceptable in a way that privatisation would not be.
Given how much time the Tories have spent talking about localism and the Big Society one imagines that this proposal will receive a positive response. If it does, it could become a model for the sale of other government assets such as the Dartford Crossing and British Waterways. '
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Ross - there was no point, we know money must be raised and the question is how it is done. Charlie has developed an idea for Dover that seems to square the circle in more ways than one.
Thanks for that Bob, not seen that yet.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Well unusual for me, but i remain on the fence on this one.
Answers required.
Assuirances that Dover will benefit.
and now just done to bail out thiscobbled together govt(thought you would like that sid lol
)
lets see what comes out of the detail