Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#21
Barry - something we both agree on...
We stopped winning when we moved away from "hearts and minds" through development and assistance to poppy eradication (at the behest of the merkins). Frankly I fear for not only our troops but also the local non aligned peoples given the merkins propensity to shoot first ask questions later.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#22
Ross thats a new word to me..."merkins", not sure if I follow that. But the hearts and minds thing is not a philosophy that works anyway in my view. Foreign forces on your soil is not a recipe for love and affection amongst the indigenous. Most people on the ground would see any kind of foreign troops sticking their oar in as an occupation force, no matter what the politicans in far off Kabul or anywhere might tell you.
BarryW yes your right as soon as we pull out the Taliban will come back in waves. They are already there in waves or droves... like a fluid conconction in a bowl. You stick your UK forces finger in the bowl and the liquid just shifts to accomodate it, but shifts right back to the spot you were in before, as soon as you move your finger.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#23
PaulB
I think it refers to our cousins the 'Americans'
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#24
By keeping that bowl stirred PaulB you stop them settling and getting a safe base to train and from which to commit atrocities in the West.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#25
the real training camps are in the lawless mountains that are partly in pakistan and partly in afghanistan.
no point in sending troops there, they would be annihalated.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#26
Paul it is from the way that good old boy George W used to pronounce the phrase "my fellow Americans" which always ending up coming out as "my fellow merkins"
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#27
Howard - our troops are there, the Special Forces are active in the Taliban mountain strongholds. Its what they are trained to do and they are the best at it along with the US Delta Force.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#28
barry
i am sure that you are right with special forces being there.
however, to actually bring afghanistan under control(horrible term), a huge troop presence would be needed.
most recently the red army tried it, before that the troops of our great empire.
the place is ungovernable, best left alone.
tribal loyalties over ride everything, the ruling cadre in kabul know this but say the opposite in order to recieve aid from the pious west.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#29
Its not a matter of us Governing the place but of keeping the Taliban out of power and preventing them from providing an operations base for Al Qaeda. That really is all that is needed militarily. On top of that a longer term solution must be found and this is where helping the Afghan Government in its 'hearts and minds' operation is essential.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#30
Thanks Ross for explaining that Bushism very amusing too, and thanks Marek as well..Im clearly not on the pace with the latest hot sayings. I lost all credibility a few years back with daughter when I didnt know who Tracey Beaker was...the value of my stock went right down
But back to the business in hand. Did anyone see the Royal Anglian Regiment on tv last night, getting abused as they marched through their hometown Luton. They were being welcomed by most people after their tour in Afghanistan/Iraq, but a band of very vociferous Muslims with offensive banners " British Army can go to HEll" and stuff like that, hurled abuse at them. The soldiers were looking very resplendant in their dessert khaki which stood out like a beacon in the grey surrounds of Luton.
However although there is wide spread revulsion at this Muslim protest in the Newspapers today, I guess they were just exercising their right to free speech...so why all the fuss about what they did?
At the end of the day we clearly get little thanks for our nation re-building efforts in these foreign locales and we really have to ask if the loss of life in places like Afghanistan is worth it.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#31
i did paulb,i think it was a disgusting display of anti britishism i have ever seen.but there is a cure for them and that is enlist them into the army give them basic training and then send to afganastan for a six month tour of duty.
#32
Goodness me brian you will have them accusing us of breaching their "human rights" if that was done.I am all for freedom of speech, but after seeing the clip, it looked more like trying to incite trouble to me.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#33
I am the first to defend the right to free speech and the right to protest. Even these radical extremist moslems have a right to protest and have their say as indeed so do the BNP.
But there is a time and place. For one thing the real target of their protest should be the Government who decides the policy and where to send our troops, not the lads who have placed their lives at risk to do that duty.
The police gave them permission to have their protest and the real questions must be about why they did so.
Among the crowds welcoming back these troops will be mothers/fathers/brothers/sisters of Royal Anglians who lost their lives in Iraq and Afghanistan. Grieving parents of 19 year old boys (and maybe girls) who bravely did their duty were faced with placards calling their sons cowards, childkillers and so on. Just what reaction would the police then expect? The anger of the crowd was fully predictable and justified under the circumstances.
For the police to allow this demonstration was simply asking for trouble and the person who gave permission for this protest should be sacked and charged for causing a breech of the peace. Those people who were arrested should receive an apology from the police.
Lets remember the Anglians were in Iraq (and previously the 'ghan) to support the legitimate Governments and to protect innocent Iraqis and Afghans from the extremists.
What a weird world we have now.
I can imagine the excuses from the police for allowing this, they were afraid to appear rascist and to cause offense to the muslim community.... sick.
And yet, we get a local councillor vilified in the press over an innocent joke, a prince gets attacked over referring in a friendly fashion to his 'little Paki friend'. Perhaps it does not matter if those offended and upset are those who value such things as patriotism, courage, loyalty - all those attributes that are so admirable about our Armed Forces and the majority of the UK population.
Under these circumstances you can understand why so many people seem to be turning to the BNP. They are wrong to do so but it is clear why they do.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#34
phil,what human rights we havent got any.cant say this cant say that for the fear of being proacuted and being branded a rasist.
#35
I absolutely defend free speech, I absolutely condemn incitement - it is clear what happened there. Perhaps we should reflect on what would happen if we tried the same trick in one of the middle eastern countries...........
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
#36
I fully defend the right to free speech but, given the demonstration, certain recent legal decisions and even Roger's problem, you have to wonder if there is any left for native Britains?
While our presence in Afghanistan and Iraq may well be keeping the Taliban on the move, al Quaida are a global organisation and I feel sure they have large and small training camps all over, the Sudan for instance.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#37
and here maybe.