Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Is there any other kind you might be thinking. Well in recent times we have seen a terrific but probably delicate return to normal life in Northern Ireland. After years of blood thirsty conflict, something of a level of telerance was reached and the province began to move forward in business development, tourism, and general good will.
Now this morning we wake up to the thunderingly awful news that there has been a machine gun attack on an army barracks with 2 dead and 4 wounded..some seriously. The news in itself is bad, but it is also very bad in terms of the horrific prospects for the future that might come along in its wake.
It might be argued that the armed struggle did achieve a lot for the catholic communities of Northern Ireland and maybe it did. But a decent level of advancement and toleration has been reached now by all communities and a return to arms is not whats required. Wasnt it extraordinary to see the Rev Ian Paisley and Martin McGuinness strike up something of a good friendship, with a fascinating level of good natured humourous banter between the two. I say extraordinary... and God yes in Irish terms that was extraordinary. It underlined in an unusual way the huge progress that had been achieved in the province in recent times. Let us hope now that it doesn't all get thrown away.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I haven't seen that yet Paul, I'll turn the TV on.
You are right though that an awful lot of progress has been made and should be maintained - for every one there.
It would be terrible if this was a downward spiral, but there are many factions and not all agree with what's happening. Hope is was just a one-off.
Roger
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Just picked this up from the headlines on the online Telegraph.
Two men, understood to be soldiers, have been killed in a drive-by shooting at a British Army barracks in County Antrim, Northern Ireland.
By Roya Nikkhah
Last Updated: 12:15AM GMT 08 Mar 2009
Four other men were injured in the attack, when shots were fired from a passing car at the Massereene Army base in County Antrim, north of Belfast.
Two were thought to be military personnel and the others civilians.
The attack happened at around 9.20pm on Saturday night.
A spokesman for the Police Service of Northern Ireland, said: "We can confirm that an attack has been carried out in Massereene in Antrim.
"There have been two fatalities. It is understood that those two fatalities are male.
"It is also understood that a further four males have been brought to hospital and are in a serious condition."
A spokesman for the Antrim Area Hospital said: "There have been six people brought in with injuries."
The shooting follows warnings last week by Sir Hugh Orde, Northern Ireland's police chief, that the threat of a serious terror attack in Northern Ireland was higher than at any time since he joined the force seven years ago.
An Army special forces squad is mounting a round-the-clock surveillance operation on dissident republicans intent in Northern Ireland.
It is understood there were two long busts of gunfire. Immediately afterwards, sirens could be heard blaring inside the military barracks, which is located on the edge of the town.
At least six ambulances and three paramedic vehicles rushed to the scene to take the injured to hospital.
The area around the barracks has been sealed off and a major security operation is under way. Nobody has yet claimed responsibility for the attack.
One witness who lives near the base told how he looked to the sky after hearing what he thought were fireworks.
He added: "Then I heard a lot of loud bangs again, only it was a lot more than there was initially - maybe between 10 and 20.
"Then the siren at the Army barracks went off. Then all you heard was the police sirens and ambulances and there was at least six ambulances.
"There was definitely six of the ambulances and God knows how many police cars - they just came out of the police station one after the other."
Roger
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
this news broke while i was watching the bbc news last night.
Guest 656- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,262
This is shocking news indeed, after all the hard work to achieve the current state of peace and normality in Northern Ireland, let us now hope and pray that this doesn't kick-start the whole bloody affair of tit-for-tat killings again across the province.
It will only have an impact if we let it. We need to remember that terrorism relies on publicity and fear. Cut both off and it will fail. It takes more time than has passed to stop violence being the default position, but it has reduced and it has taken a new pathway - don't let a bedpan full of historic rejects fulfilling their own needs under the umbrella of failed poilitical rhetoric deflect that pathway.
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
Lets hope there is enough goodwill on both sides to stop this before it breaks out all over again and they can bring those to justice quickly.
The last thing Ireland (South & North) needs and our armed forces are further out breaks of this. My thoughts are with the families of those killed and injured.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
tragic as it is, i don't think that the peace and prosperity enjoyed at the moment will alter.
there are a few relics of the past that hate to have lost their place in the order of things.
no one can do much about one off incidents of murder, can happen anywhere.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
It was interesting the other day to hear the officials in N Ireland plan to re-introduce British Army Special Forces into the province to do undercover work plus. Either they had some prior intelligence that something was about to happen or.. could it be that this very announcement actually inspired this shooting to happen..as the catholic community, according to Martin McGuinness, feel threatended by such announcements...because history shows that the SF are somewhat less than impartial. Somehow I have the feeling that this shooting is unlikely to be a one off especially if there is substantial intelligence about new movements in the underbelly.
There is indeed a considerable amount of chatter going on, on both sides. Reduced publicity would be a good tool to employ, but our beloved media are not always as responsible as they could be, sadly. So often they whip up stuff that would have gone away if allowed to do so, and are doing that very thing even now with a few political hot taters..
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
there are indeed rumours abounding, higer security alert etc etc.
my money is on the good folk of ulster to carry on their business, ne'er do wells rely on panic to foster their actions.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
It has emerged that it was the Real IRA that carried out the attack, whcih is a surprise to no one at all. This group were never part of the peace process, never embracing change as say the Provisionals have done. These are out and out hard liners and its something of a miracle that they have been quiet for so long. This could be a resurgence.
It has also emerged that the first story about a drive by shooting wasnt accurate. They may have fired initially from a stationary car, but...and here is the brutal bit, they then casually walked across the road and finished the soldiers off while they were lying on the ground. Thats the story on the news bulletin this morning. The one anomoly there though is... they shot six, why single out two. I dont know.
And we probably never will know. Sadly, many papers have carried the publicity to their front pages. Will we never learn about how terrorists crave publicity? Job done, then, for RIRA.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Another disturbing aspect I have heard of today was that the armed security guards on the base, who have had the contract for 10 years and this is the first incident to test them, are said to have just stood by when the RIRA gunmen went forward to finish off the guards. Perhaps it was the presence of the security guards that stopped them finishing off others. There are certainly questions to be asked and this part of the affair is to be investigated.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
I would have said that the guards were in an impossible situation. Had they shot those walking to the fallen and it could be claimed that they had killed someone who had not discharged their weapon the backlash would have provoked the situation. They are stuck trying to control a difficult problem. As Paul has pointed out the possvble introduction of special forces, in response to rumours of a possible threat, leads to other sections of the community being threatened. The actions of the murderers will necessitate investigations in the community they come from causing more to feel threatened or intimidated. Dealing with the problem is going to take carefull balancing that would be better served away from the alarmist glare of the 'popular' press.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
The good side of all this is that all the poltical parties are asking for people to come forward,
The Major being interviewed on the guards/army said it would havre been worse to have a shoot out because of thge number of civilians and others about and more innocent deaths.
But there will be an investigation and hopefully a lot of lessons learnt
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Apparently the authorities have cctv footage of the incident.
Lets hope it results in early but lawful of the arrests of those responsible for this atricious incident so that this bud can be nipped before it spreads and blooms out of control.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i think that the murderers have done nothing for any imaginary cause that they had.
there is no propaganda victory here.
reading the posts here and the reaction from people that live there, there is just revulsion at this deed.
i know from experience what a beautiful place ulster is, and what a great sense of humour people have there.
tourism is thriving, business is booming, there is no chance of the nutcases making a serious comeback.
i feel uncomfortable about people like adams, mcguinness and paisley still having influence, but that is the democratic choice of the residents and should be respected.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
You are absolutely right there Howard.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Well its happened again...now a policeman has been shot dead in a determined deliberate act.
Very hard to say at this stage if its a widespread resurgence right across the board or just one roving band of determined hardliner gunmen driving across the country in Bonnie and Clyde style. But as we said earlier, if intelligence existed that caused concern amongst the security forces, then it seems to point towards a resurgence. But not a resurgence on a scale we might have seen before, but a resurgence by a smaller group. But its very bad blow for N Ireland. It builds up that terrible mistrust of your brother citizen again.