Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
#1
In the days of all the cut backs we all are making, do we need two councils,Town counciland District.
Alot of funding is needed to run both councils and it all comes from our council taxs we all pay.
Two offices and all the staff and that is just some of the overheads.
Yes both councils do work,and I am not saying they do not,but can it not be done from the one main office up at district.
Please how do you all feel about it, it is our cash so we should have a say where it go to.
I remain yours faithfully VIC MATCHAM
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#2
i have raised this issue before vic, usually certain town councillors take it as criticism of their individual performance.
the problem is that the town council is seen by many as a closed society.
the minutes on their website are over 3 months out of date, no-one knows the attendance figures of the councillors.
the planning committee can discuss applications, see problems, and reject, then at district level the decsions are overturned.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
#3
Of course there is the other alternative and be like Medway and do away with KCC,which eats 80% of your poll tax,remember DDC get 10% and the Town Council roughly 3%,so if you did away (and I don't think it is a good idea)with DTC the money you save wouldn't pay your increse in your poll tax sorry community charge next year.
But if you wanted to take on Roads Libaries Schools then a unitarian authority may be the way to go.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
#4
It feels like a change is overdue........
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#5
Bern
In fact with have 3 councils
Kent county council
Dover District Council
Dover town council
have mentioned this on another earlier thread in this ward alone we have
4 town cllrs
3 District councillors
2 County cllrs
do we need that many cllrs/councils no we dont
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#6
spot on keith.
how many residents could name more than two out of the 9?
john mentions the possibility of a unitary authority, i seem to remember a week or two back. someone explaining the
positive side of such a move.
moving along a bit further, what about dover pride?
yet another bland statement in the local press of their aims, anyone can spout aims, what about achievements?
there are 13 groups or individuals involved in this waste of money.
now getting on to seeda, ok i will stop there.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
#7
Thank you all for that,and most of it I go along with, but what can be done about it?
vIC m
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
#8
Vic - is this a case of you can't get on either so best try to destroy them ??:
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
#9
Paul.
Thank you for your post, I have been waiting for that to come up, and it is a no to that, it is just the times we are living in.
As I see it there are two ways to deal with this,(A) That Thetown council get more of a workload.
(B) That we do away with the town council and the district council take ex work on with some ex staff coming from the town council.
If we had a vote on it which way would all of you vote"?
As for my vote I would vote for (B).
But it is a yes I will still stand at the next elections
for the town council and district councils.
Would just like to had from the time i was on the town council till now i have been in nine Elections.
Thank you again.
Vic M
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
#10
intresting that Howard,I was on a course only this week and the instructor told us about Durham which has just changed to a Unitarian Council,we were told that they had spent the last year arguing on what to call themselves,then reduced the Cllrs from over 400 to about 100.Then they realised the problem that the Cllrs work quadrupeled over night and many couldn't cope and some were going to resign or were thinking about it.
It looks as if the Cllrs up there will have to go full time or near full time and that means paying the the wages for full time.Result the Council Tax had not reduced much and some Cllrs could not go full time,remember a Cllrs life is only 4 years,would you give up a good job to risk a job for 4 years.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
#11
VIC
To start with, that dream won't ever happen(doing away with 1 council)so wouldn't get to excited there.
john
Another example of unitaries, i spent some time in South Wales and the councils there went unitary but the town i stayed in lost its council and decisions are now made 20/30 or more miles away by people that probably has no idea of that districts issues
And yes the question of full time cllrs wsill always come up because of the workload.
but its also about would you just get cllrs doing the job for the money?
so from evidence iv seen of it in action i'v yet to be convinced
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#12
and would they be on minimum wage.
#13
JHG, that just sounds like the councillors were incapable of planning or thinking ahead!!!! Clearly there is much very useful debate to have, but the method of local management really is unweieldy and therefore very open to abuse and unaccountability. A change needs to come, it's just working out the best way forward. Whatever happens, it needs to be remembereed to have a plan B, and probably a plan C and D - something councillirs often fail to recognise!!
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#14
Bern is right there we do need some kind of change but getting anything to happen on any level to do with councils is almost impossible. But John makes an interesting point re workload. Most councillors will have other jobs and some very busy almost gruelling other jobs, so would anyone want to take on a councillors job that had too huge a workload. Its hard enough getting the right people to come forward as it is.
An elected full time mayor with added staff is a good option, but would it require constitutional change and could a town like Dover afford it. There would be full time salaries full time staff...but it could replace some of the existing officialdom.
But you might see much needed movement forward.
Howard mentions Dover Pride. yes there seems to be too many of these bodies all spouting aspirations. Easy to do. I did ask Anne Knight, their new head, if she wanted to join here so that she could keep the community informed as to progress. Im still waiting for an answer and as I asked the question 6 months ago, I am now resigned with a sigh to the prospect of not getting an answer!
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
#15
Paul.
Can we have a vote on this forum if to keep the town council,or let it go.
Just to see how the public feel about how our Town and district is being run.?
Vic M
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
#16
I have posted something on the open page .Do you think Dover could afford to run the Housing ,Leisure ,Parks etc ??In 1974 the councils were merged into a District .Can we afford to have the above departments in every town ??A lot of duplication and its less costly to proccur services when a council is larger .
In answer to the poster why does DDC not give to Dover .I think you will find there is little in it when the cake is cut .Dover has Connaught Park,Pencester .Elmsvale .Kearsney Abbey ,Russell gardens ,Bushy Ruff ,Crabble Athletic Ground .A lot of work there .The Dover Town Hall ,the Musuem.THe Area office .More Housing in Dover .Tell me where Dover is not looked after .The lovely flowers etc at Deall are looked after by the Chamber of commerce and the Town Council I forgot the Vistor Information Centre .
I havent mentioned toilets as im disgusted that we donot provide more and better .
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
#17
I have said on another thread DDC donot do much in the way of Civic that is done mainly bt the three Mayors ,Dover ,Deal ,and Sandwich .Our poor old Chairman of DDC wears the smallest chain .,used to belong to Eastry Rural .
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#18
Vic we dont have a facility on this 'new' version of doverforum to have an official poll vote. We did have on the old version but it was rarely used.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#19
paul
all you will get from dover pride anyway is the same platidude that is published on their website and in the press yet again this week.
the vision!!!!
martin luther king had a dream, at least he tried to do something about it.
can they do anything anyway?
with 13 organisations involved, is it possible to get them all in one place at one time, then agree on something?
they will just carry on until someone looks at the cost and the results
Guest 676- Registered: 1 Jul 2008
- Posts: 521
#20
Victor
So the Sun wont pay you, so lets have a dig?
You live in River so doing away with the town council in Dover will save YOU, how much?
Now lets have real answers
Stewart
Million-to-one chances crop up nine times out of ten.