Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
I've just heard on the radio news that there is talk of rewarding naughty school children for being naughty because ..........(wait for it ....) naughty children are naughty because they like being punished!!!! The idea is that if we reward them for being naughty they won't be naughty anymore!
Your comments ladies and gentlemen?
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
I think you will probably be able to guess mine...................................
Guest 650- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 542
This is quite an old pyschological debate - that children can be "naughty" because
for some of them it is the only way they can gain attention they crave. They did quite a few studies on it, and discovered that naughty children gained disproportiontely more attention than those who were behaving well, but also that when naughty children did behave well, then the attention they were gaining was less. Therefore there was a positive inducement to behave "badly".
The answer, it is seen, is to reinforce good behaviour by rewarding it, and also to make sure that praise for something that is seen as good is achievable by every child (not every child will be top of the class in maths, for example, and for those that can't attain this kind of distinction, then if there is no other way of distinction, then one good way is rejecting such values, perhaps in a very noticeable way, oh, and tormenting those who do achieve it, such that even those who can begin to think it isn't desirable. In a way, it's a neat little defeat for what could be seen as an imposed meaningless adult goal.
On the other hand, reward and take notice of whatever it is that is good, and ignore what is bad, and, so the theory goes, you should get more good behaviour and less bad. It's sensible theory.
But, in practice, if we're talking in a school context for example, it isn't quite that easy, because the whole milieu has various achievements valued withn it (tests, sats, exams etc etc), becuase teachers do have limited time and resources, and also because such behaviour doesn't happen in isolation, but the child will take in values from other sources, such as the family, things seen in the media, etc. It's also a problem in that if a pupil does want to get on, and is being actively prevented by a naughty child, one has to and most certainly should think about that child's needs and wishes also.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Are you sure? I thought it was reward naughty children for their good behaviour.
Actually, the principle is that simple - even if a teacher is busy it is not rocket science to work out various rewards and options, even for under-achievers, that don't disproportionately reward children but encourages some level of achievement. If a teacher is working in a person-centred way this should be a priority for each individual child. Personal realistic
goals are essential to learning.
Guest 654- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 169
Think its more about society in general, we saw when both parents out to work and we had the latch door kids having to fend for them selves the slow erosion of family life.
BUT that was a political decision made by another Govt some time ago.
NO govt is willing to take on the benefits system, which is another aspect to today's society.
On this issue, on the one hand they did to keep the interest of the misbehaving child whilst on the other make sure the good children are not seen to be disadvantaged just because they are good.
hard one
Both parents CAN work if the ground work is prepared, if the parents work at making it work, and the children are bright and independent. We find it enriches our family life and increases the expectations on the children if they can witness both Mother and Father working and achieving. Latch Key Kids only happen if there are no provisions made. If you are a single parent struggling on benefits wanting to work the choices are reduced, if you are a low income family, choices are reduced, if your expectations are low because of your experiences your choices are reduced. We are lucky to have 2 professional parents working, and working hard to create a stimulating safe environment for our children. I am the first to acknowledge that it is tough for many others. Duh, maybe that's why I am a socialist!!!!!
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
Bern you talk a lot of sense, I am totally with you on this subject.
Personally I think a lot of the problems that exist with todays children are due to a lack of respect. This encompasses all levels of class, colour and creed. Simple things that you and I were brought up to accept as the norm, like saying please and thank you for instance, are no longer taught to children at the age when they should be learning about respect. It amazes me when in shops, the number of children who just say "one of them" instead of "Can I have one of those please", then just walk away without saying thank you. Respect costs nothing, yet very few children are taught it these days. When we were young we respected the police, our teachers, people older than ourselves, our parents etc. These days they don't even know what respect means. With the breakdown of common courtesies came the breakdown of the well behaved child. I'm not saying all children are like it - there are some very polite children around, but it does seem to be the ones who don't know respect that are the problem.
So getting back to the subject of this thread, I think all children should be praised when they do something well, even if they're normally trouble makers, but I don't agree with rewarding any child for being naughty. How the hell can they know what is right and wrong if we, the adults, send out such mixed messages. It doesn't matter if a child is of working parents, single parent or stay at home parent, if we give them that good start in life by teaching them right and wrong and setting good examples by our own actions we can at least say we tried.
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
some sensible comments on this thread.
the young should be congratulated when they do the right thing, chastised when they don't.
children have to know the differences and the boundaries.
they are usually much happier too.
how many have times have you seen children running amok in shops, while their parent/s are texting on their mobiles.?
that is not all parents of course.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
A good posting Bern and Jacqui, but Bern, at the end of your posting you said "maybe that's why I'm a Socialist".
Why would that make you a Socialist ? it's them who have increased the various taxes so much over the last ten years.
I don't have all the details to hand, but Barry W. can tell you exactly how much worse off you are since Gordon started taking your money in ever increasing grabs and now the worst off are even worse off.
Roger
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Roger
Being a socialist means caring about your fellow man and wanting to give equal opportunities to all regardless of their financial background race creed colour or religion.In order to achieve the above we have to invest not only in infrastructure but also in our young and the old.To make this happen we have to pay and the money has to be found from somewhere .The scrapping of the 10p tax band is unfortunate but even the Tory ex Chancellor Ken Clark on TV last week said it was necessary.The Tories voted against the introduction of the 10p band claiming it would make the tax system too complicated now its being scrapped they have changed their tune in order to grab a few cheap headlines in the Mail And Express.Make up your minds.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Why is it that right-wingers always seem to view being "worse off" in terms of finance? There are many ways of being "worse off" or "better off"and money is only one of them - Life is a balance and finance, while important, is a part of the whole. Money isn't the root of all evil, it is the Love of Money that is the root of evil. Money can provide medicine, housing, education many good things, money can be of real benefit. It is when we begin to worship it as an end in itself that we fail as human beings. I need to add that these are my opinions and not a poilitical propganda speech!!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
As a right winger....
There is nothing specifically 'socialist' about caring or believing in equal opportunities. Bern I also resent your suggestion that we regard 'better off' as only being in financial terms. Your attitudes in this respect demonstrates a total misunderstanding about the motives and attitudes of the right.
Regarding the 10% tax band. It was wrong to introduce it and I would not re-introduce it as indeed it did add an additional level of complexity to an already over complex tax system. I would prefer to increase the nil rate band instead to compensate for its removal. The Government had an opportunity to do that but failed and its not as if they were not warned a whole year ago. Our warnings were ignored.
Amazing how this topic has become political unnecessarily.
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
Barry you are so right there, this topic was dealing with children not politics! Why does everything have to come down to a political argument. There is a political debate section on this website so why not use it.
I have no political leanings at all, although I do use my vote when there is an election - to vote for whoever I think will do the right thing, not because they wear a certain colour.
Getting back to the subject of this topic, most schools are back today, how nice it was to see those lovely clean little faces catching up with their holiday stories. I really missed the children I take to school and I have to say that they are all well behaved today - so far lol We should treasure our children and teach them good and bad so that they have a good basis to take them into adulthood. Todays children will be running the country in 20 or so years time - let's prepare them for it by teaching them well now and letting them know what is acceptable and what isn't.
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Absolutely Jacqui! But I have to say (and I won't harp on, because as you rightly point out there is a seperate site for dedicated political comment) that schools and public services are of necessity political because they are run by political services! And I was commenting about right wingers and finances from on the previous posting, which was all about money! I think my understanding of the shades involved in politics is probably quite acute.........nuff said.......
Guest 654- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 169
oh dear roger now look wot you have done
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
Roger has done nothing wrong - it's this stupid government that keep coming up with these crackpot ideas!
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
It has to be said - whoever you vote for, the Government gets in........!
Guest 654- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 169
Jacqjui
won't take you for a coffee you keep this up (only joking)
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
Have you lost my email address?
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
