Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
19 October 2008
18:037783Barry, still asking that question.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
22 October 2008
12:337922Moving on the KCC. I have had some information about them that I though I would pass on.
The valuation dates dont fully align so I cannot do a proper analysis but I will pass on the figures.
The KCC Pension Fund had £16m spread between 3 Icelandic banks on the 7th October.
In total they had £140m in cash holding in the pension spread between 31 institutions. So the icelandic Bank money comprised of just over 11% of the total cash holding. This figure was the end of June 2008.
At that time they had a further £2,431m invested in equities, property and bonds.
Therefore if the amount of Icelandic Cash was the same at the end of June it would have held 0.6% of the total portfolio in Icelandic banks. Not a large figure.
I would expect that recent falls in the equity and property markets would have a much, much greater impact on the portfolio value than the total loss of the £16m.
They anticipate getting back most if not all the money that was invested in the Icelandic Banks.
I cannot comment of how appropriate the equity holding are as I do not have any more details of the portfolio. It is quite reasonable to have equity holdings in this way due to the relative long term performance of equities, the only question would be wheher the level of holding are/were appropriate in terms of overall portfolio risk.
This refers only to that money that is in the pension and not the remaining part of the £50m that would be a part of KCC reserves.
I should add that there is no impact upon the existing or future pensioners. This is a statutory scheme.
Sid Pollitt
22 October 2008
22:367941I'd like to know what went on today at the KCC with the investment advisors Butlers refusing to come and tell councillors what went on with the gambling of our money in Iceland.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
23 October 2008
06:567942Gambling is not what happened Sid, any more than placing a deposit over a year ago in Northern Rock was a gamble. If you know anything about investment you will know that, indeed you will know that there is no such thing as 'no risk', there are only diffferent types of risk. You manage risk through diversification to reduce the risk to the overall portfolio.
Sid Pollitt
23 October 2008
12:337950I do know about investments Barry. Butlers, they are investment tipsters, apparently told Thanet DC to get their money out of Iceland so if that is correct then someone has gambled on keeping the KCC's punt in the big race. As I said before I doubt the DDC messed up but I reckon someone has at KCC. It will eventually come out.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
23 October 2008
13:427951Ashford were told to get out of Iceland too but as Barry will agree financial advice is different wherever you go and as a lot of small print says
"... the value of your investment can go down as well as up..."
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
23 October 2008
18:307963Could it be down to a clause within the agreement taken up with the Icelandic banks and KCC etc that possibly you could not withdraw investments within a certain time scale.
Correct me if I am wrong.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
23 October 2008
18:477964Barry - that was the case with DDC. And, yes - you do need to be careful of some self promoting claims being made....
Sid Pollitt
27 October 2008
23:438147I think the problem is that KCC did renew/ make some of its deposits 6 months ago but concerns were being raised 7 months ago. We should be told when exactly Butlers gave their advice and what that advice was, and what did KCC do about that advice.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
28 October 2008
07:598154Sid, the Audit Commission themselves made a deposit within the last 3 months. Also it is becoming clear that a fair few IFA's conducted 'Due Diligance' as recently as September and as a result deposited large sums with these banks just weeks before they crashed. If the Audit Commission themselves get caught out like that it is more difficult to condemn the Councils. Given the Due Diligance requirements for IFA's as well I am even more convinced of that. The key question really is how much and what proportion of the assets were committed in this direction. Based on the KCC Pension money it is difficult to establish a case against them on that basis, I just dont know the position for their general fund though.
I personally am fortunate, as I did not have a case in excess of the (original) depositor guarantee, far from it, so I have no client losses to concern myself with. I know now of one IFA who placed £400,000 with one of these banks a few weeks before, after their checks did not demonstrate a problem.
Sid Pollitt
3 November 2008
18:038606I've read this week that the Deputy Chief Exective of Kent Reliance said that to invest council taxpayers cash in an Icelandic bank that has been on the scene for a few minutes is a dereliction of duty. In the same article the Chairman of HR Go said KCC's entrepreneurial culture led directly to the decision to invest in Iceland's banks. Maybe KCC didnt do anything wrong in investing £50 million of our money and maybe we'll get it all back BUT we dont trust them and wont be surprised if they have messed up.