howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
seemd like a family day out, all busily finishing next door to the police station.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
A wonderful juxtaposition there Howard, with the Parking sign in the shot.
"Taking the Pisces."
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
But the Police do nothing it seems. Could they not have checked that they had a licence etc. ?
Is it really a free-for-all on everything ? - looting, mugging, rioting, fishing etc. etc.
Roger
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
no powers any more roger,previous goverments have taken policing to new low including this goverment.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i did go in and report it roger, i was told by someone behind the counter that they would see if they could find someone.
i waited around for 15 minutes, i don't know if anyone appeared later before all the fish had gone.
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
The two in the picture look like the same two I asked to move on when fishing by the Crabble Corn Mill last week.There are No fiishing signs all the way up that part of the river but they like other just ignore them, which is why you are hard pressed to see any fish in that part of the river now.
Guest 715- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 2,438
Brian do you not think the Police were given every support by the last Government? as were Immigration and Customs, their numbers and extra powers grew as and when required to deal with the changing nature of their jobs.
Audere est facere.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
martin,powers have been taken away by to much red tape etc,more so in the last 5 years or so.and now being made worse by the cut backs etc.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
While I am no angler I have known people augment their plate and their pocket by the utilisation of such skill and patience that were available to them. Albeit, that was off a sea wall. Pity these illicit river 'tourist' anglers do not live near the open water.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
I have been asked to put this information up without delay...by the Police themselves.
The police did speak to this man - Chief Inspector Ken Elmes spotted the man fishing from his office window and asked him to come to the police station. The man was advised he needed a freshwater licence and asked to leave. This is not the first time that officers have stopped people fishing in the Dour without a licence and Kent Police will continue to highlight to partner agencies when it occurs.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
good to hear that the problem is being taken seriously by the police, here is a link for anyone wanting to get a licence.
http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/homeandleisure/recreation/fishing/31497.aspxGuest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
Lots to see via that link Howard. Including what you can do without waiting to be seen in your local cop-shop...
Call us on 0800 80 70 60 and tell us:
1. Exactly where the alleged offence is
2. What's happening
3. How may people are involved and a description of them
4. The registration numbers of any vehicles
Please leave a contact number so we can call you back.
Had the culprit in the photograph had the 'sense' to put the rod in the infant's hands...
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Thanks PaulB for that - and thank you Chief Inspector.
Well done with the link Howard.
Roger
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
If the only sanction is to be asked to leave by Inspector Elmes, I think I'll go down to Frank The Shop's emporium and buy me a fly rod.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
It's a funny one this. I know at times I may seem a little anti-authoritarian when it come to things like this but it does seem sometimes we (as a society) get hung up on things that don't really mean a great deal. I believe this is one such example.
In the same way push bikes and people have managed to get by for a long time until the invention of pedestrianised precincts and 'no cycling' signs, I have to say I feel the same about this. I have the same feeling about tree climbing, an excellent activity that is regarded as a right of passage for young boys in the countryside. The second this is attempted in a town people are disgusted and start shaking their fists ( one of my favourite dying gestures).
Now if this exact same fishing activity had been carried out in a rural setting, the man lazing in the sunshine with a straw hat tipped over his face, people would be happy, perhaps even paint a picture. As a kid I used to fish around this same spot on the Dour, as did my grandad, so why is it so shocking? There are more trout in the river now than then and as my Grandad pointed out this was all helped by the trout farm that lost a great deal of stock to the Dour. He actually talked fondly of grabbing them out of the water IN the paper mill.
I actually had a licence when I used to fish there, I seem to remember sorting it through 'Huckleberries' tackle shop that was on Ladywell. The shop also sold us live bait which was really handy too. Fish that were too small were thrown back alive after removing the hook with a disgorger and others I had for dinner.
I understand that many abuse these simple traditions that I may wrongly regard as liberties but is this really a problem? Does fishing have to one of these activities that is exclusive to those that drive a 4x4 out to some soulless manmade lake where you catch fish fed on pig pellets, have your photograph taken with it and then send it into a magazine?
Just to add, we never used to fish up in River.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Surely though Darren, if it is illegal to fish without a licence, then it's wrong; if it's wrong, then it must be stopped. Telling the difference between right and wrong is discussed on another (rioting) thread.
Generally, people are concerned about others fishing in the Dour because there aren't so many fish nowadays and we need/want to preserve them.
Not to do with fishing, but recently there's been images on the TV showing rural settings with rivers and none of these country rivers have anywhere near as many weeds/plant-life as the Dour - our river is well over-populated with these plants and should be thinned out; maybe then they could see how few fish there are.
Roger
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
But the licence does nothing to stop this 'over fishing'. The licence does not address what is right or wrong, only what is 'legal'(and I mean legal in the loosest sense). If the man in this picture holds a licence what difference would it make?
It was, up until recently, 'illegal' to have any more than 2 performers in your pub under the old 'basic' PRS licence. Under the idea that licensing makes something 'right' having a four piece band would have been 'wrong'. Things have changed now and this act is now right. When we talk about things like fishing in the Dour it just shows how we have got caught up with bureaucracy rather than morality.
Howard's link shows us that you don't have to pay if you are under 12. By this reasoning it is fine for every 11 year old in the country to fish the Dour, that would soon get rid of the fish! Under licensing this is 'right' yet the one bloke here is 'wrong'. If we want to teach right and wrong we also need to examine the descriptors, not just the laws.
For example the laws now surrounding striking, making the act of people standing up for what is right, an 'unlawful act'. So moral code can actually eroded by legislation. We are constantly being told to make our own decisions but can we?
I still think there are more fish in the Dour than when I fished there.
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
I could be wrong but I was under the impression that anyone under 12 had to be accompanied by an adult with a valid rod licence. Nonetheless, I believe that unless one is the riparian owner of the stretch of water being fished, any fish caught is technically theft.
It would be helpful if the EA could publish, or indicate exactly, what the Dour Byelaws are. This information is near impossible to find, and virtually everyone you speak to has a different opinion as to what is, and isn't legal.
I wouldn't have a problem if people fish for trout, and put them back. However, sometimes they are simply dumped, i.e. totally unnecessary killing. Some of the local kids have even admitted that they pass them to local restaurants in exchange for cash (as it's a public forum I won't state which establishments I know engage in this).
Of course fishing is fun, and it is a good day out for young people. But if they wish to take up this pastime, why not obtain a rod licence and go legally sea fishing off the pier or Shakespeare Beach where the stocks are plentiful?
To me, eel fishing is more of an environmental concern than trout. A couple of homemade eel traps have been found in the Dour recently in the centre of town, and I personally have observed late night illegal net fishing. Unlike trout, eels are in real trouble - critically endangered even, and the last thing their population needs is to be hammered. Dead eels are sometimes found dumped on the paths, presumably by kids trout fishing who do not know what to do with them once caught.
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
There are several points raised above by folks who don't go fishing so are a little confused. Buying a rod licence (I get mine automatically by direct debit) makes it legal for you to fish in freshwater, either rivers or lakes and publicly or privately owned, but isn't necessary at present for sea fishing or in Scotland.
It also provides funds for the Environment Agency to spend on maintaining and improving rivers, and having a lot of weed in doesn't always mean that's a problem, rivers are largely self regulating unless they are interfered with.
The need for a licence is fairly clear and unambiguous but what is also needed to fish is permission from the owner of the riparian rights - in the case of rivers the owner of the land on the bank of the river owns the rights up to the middle of the river, and if you fish without permission you are guilt of theft. However, who owns the rights can be unclear in areas of public access where the land isn't in ownership, and it seems from Howard's example above that the Chief Inspector was saying it's OK to fish from there provided you have a licence as we don't know who owns the fishing rights.
It's time DDC put up no fishing notices on the areas of public access where they own the rights, so it is obvious if there are no signs in areas of public access that fishing is allowed there with a licence. Members might not like that but it is the law, and if the river was properly managed and stocked if necessary by the EA then it would not be a problem to have controlled fishing in the river.
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
Absolutely brilliant post Ray. Thank you very much for clarifying the situation regarding rights, really very helpful.
email: dover7@msn.com
