Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
13 January 2010
18:4937450With the whiff of an election in the air, I'm wondering whether either of the two 'main' parties should give some thought to amending or repealing the ban on smoking in public places.
If the media are to be believed, Britain's pubs are closing at a rate so fast that many are predicted to close for good if the smoking ban is not amended or repealed. I have always thought it grossly unfair that a landlord or restaurant owner should not have the right to opt out, or opt into, the current legislation. In other words, any licenced premises should be allowed to become a 'smoking' establishment or a 'no smoking' establishment. In my opt-in or opt-out theory, pubs and restaurants would have to display whether or not they were a smoking establishment on the doors and windows so that customers would have the choice whether or not to enter, and it would thus only be a matter of time before regulars got to know the preference of the licence holder.
In my opinion, this returns individual choice to the people, rather than having a state dictate that you cannot smoke in a public place, which seems inherently unfair and is just another manifestation of interfering nanny-state legislation. I know that there are ramifications such as the cost to the NHS, but those who smoke (and I'm not one) pay through the nose in direct taxation on cigarettes as it is so I believe the argument that by banning smoking in a public place you're reducing the cost to the NHS to be weak, at best.
How many landlords do we hear of who say that the current level of duty on alcohol, coupled with the smoking ban, is strangling their businesses? Isn't it time to look at this legislation and put it right, before a British way of life is lost forever? I know that UKIP's manifesto states that they would do away with this law, but I'm not sure that anyone except Vic seriously believes they will gain power at the next election. I think that if either Labour or Conservative adopted a review of the smoking ban with a view to amending it, that would prove a substantial vote winner.
True friends stab you in the front.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
13 January 2010
18:5937452andy,i toterly agree with what you are saying.going on from that i just wandering had a touch of hyperthermia over the last week or two by having to leave a warm enviroment to a cold one.what cost to the nhs for treating hypothermia compared to smoking.
Guest 686- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 556
13 January 2010
19:1537458You're unlikely to get hypothermia in the relatively short time it takes to step outside and smoke a cigarette!
As for the smoking ban, I think the damage has already been done as far as the pubs are concerned. Shame, as I used to like a ciggy with my pint or two. It was a stupid law in the first place.
Phil West
If at first you don't succeed, use a BIGGER hammer!!
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
13 January 2010
20:4637470I understand that 52 pubs a week are closing, whether that's due to the recession or smoking ban I don't know, but together, they are bad news.
In the not too distant future there'll only be chain pubs - Wetherspoons, Whitbread places like Premier Inn's Marine Court or the Plough.
Shepherd Neame tenanted pubs have to buy their drinks direct from them and drinks are more expensive to them than other non-shep pubs buying from Shepherd Neame, so they are at a distinct disadvanatge to start with.
Free-hold pubs can buy their beers cheaper, but it seems nowhere cheaper than Wetherspoons.
Did you know that before Christmas, the Police went round to all the pubs (across Kent - each of course in their own patch) asking that the pubs act responsibly and don't offer drinks at silly prices - some took notice, some didn't; it wasn't enforceable, just good common sense.
Earlier in the New Year, Wetherspoons (all of them I understand) were offering pints for £1.00 (99p).
This will only encourage people out of the decent, character pubs and into places like the 8 Bells. No wonder there's so many closing and not just because of the smoking ban.
Good local pubs like Blakes in Castle Street offer a good range of real ales and their cheapest is (just) £2.00 per pint.
Roger
13 January 2010
22:2037484Short answer to your question: no. Many people have given up smoking as a result of the ban, that has to be good for individuals health and for the national health. Those who want to smoke can continue, just not in my airspace. We have moved on and live in more civilised times, let'snot take those nasty steps backwards.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
13 January 2010
22:4637485they would not be in your airspace bern.
they would be in a pub that proclaims itself to be a smoking establishment.
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
13 January 2010
23:4837491For once I have to disagree with you Bern.
Before the smoking ban, Thousands of pubs spent a huge amount of money putting in extractor fans and making pubs more friendly for both smokers and non smokers.
Then the government had to stick theit oar in just because another country did it.
If you had 100 pubs in one town, 50 smokers and 50 non smokers I have a sneeky feeling the smokers pubs would do better.
In some I have been in you cannot move in the smoking area because there are too many non smokers taking the space up.
I think its time for a change.
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
13 January 2010
23:5637492From a personal point of view, its so much nicer to be able to go in a pub, or go for a meal and not have smoke blown all over you, and clothes going home smelling of cigs, but thats just me.
I suppose there could be a call for smokers pubs but with that comes health,
are we correct putting staff in that position to have to inhale it?
tricky questions
debate im sure will go on
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
14 January 2010
00:0237493As I said Keith Those extracor fans cost a lot of money.
Eating areas were completely seperate from smoking areas and most pubs had no smoking at the bar, only in extracted areas would allow smoking.
Not tricky at all, common sense.
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
14 January 2010
00:0837494I think the closing of pubs may have less to do with smoking and more to do with the current price of a pint compared to the current price of a crate of Fosters from Tesco. Last time I bought a pint at a bar, I was - wait for it - HORRIFIED - at the price. I thought the bar was taking the p**s. It was enough to convince me to stay home with my crates from Tesco forever.
However there is a good argument for the change to the smoking ban and although I am an ex-smoker who now hates cigarettes I still believe strongly in free choice. People will be their own best judge of whether they want to use an establishment or not based on its smokign status.
Ha. Free choice. Remember that old chestnut? Hasn't Labour done more to erode that cherished old idea than just about anyone in living memory?
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
14 January 2010
00:1937498I think you'll find Rick that the Commons had a free vote on the subject.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
14 January 2010
00:2537501Whether or not there was a fee vote, did make some comments.
One thing that realy annoyed me as a non smoker when restaurants were smoking places was smokers would light up no matter who was around them, it often spoilt my meal.
If there were to be SMOKERS ONLY pubs i couldnt see the harm in that,
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
14 January 2010
06:0537507I am enjoying the freedom of going into any pub/restaurant etc without being assaulted by smoke.
So yes, I believe in freedom, the ban should stay.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
14 January 2010
07:3937510barryw,why am i surpised with your comment.knowing that you are an active member of the chamber of comerse i would have thought you would be more intressted in keeping places open rather than seeing them being closed down,no woner this country is going down hill fast with attitudes like yours.
14 January 2010
07:5437511BarryW is right - I now have the freedom to go into pubs and restaurants - I hadn't done so for years because - even with extractor fans - it was oppressive with smoke. It only takes one smoker in the room to ruin it for non-smokers. Expensive as they are, the fans have never worked - how can they? Smoke does its own thing and goes wherever it likes, it doesn't go to the smokers corner! I cannot eat if someone is smokiong, and I resent the smell on my clothes. If the ban was overturned the impetus for some to give up would be lost and many many non-smokers would lose out. Smokers are more vocal because any addict will be aggressive if their fix is restricted. You know it's true!!!
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
14 January 2010
08:0437513come on bern,if it was overturned and pubs,clubs and restrunts had a choise of smoking or non smoking,you wouldnt goin a smoking as i wouldnt into a non smoking one.think about it bern.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
14 January 2010
11:1237524Last night the States voted whether the pubs on Alderney should ban smoking.The votes cast were 5-5.In the event of a tie the unelected Chairperson had the deciding vote.He voted in favour of the ban being introduced.
So the last smoking pub in the United Kingdom becomes a smoke free zone on 1st June 2010. Although a non smoker myself it does seem a pity that an unelected person gets to make the decision.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
14 January 2010
11:5537529If pubs were given the option of becoming a 'smoking only' establishment then what would happen?...they would probably all go for it in the mistaken belief that it would save the day, and the overall ban would become null and void. So I doubt if an 'opt in' and 'opt out' situation would happen in reality.
I say mistaken, because ruling out 70% of the population is not a good model for business success.
Just two things to add here..
The problem as I see it, is that the market has actually moved away from small pubs and I doubt if smoking would do much to improve business. At the moment we have a few guys huddled round the bar not smoking ( remember the story about the White Horse).. so what if we had the same few guys huddled round the bar smoking. It wouldnt make any difference to revenue. The casual passer by going into places like that feels he is intruding whether they are smoking or not..we spoke of this before. The places are empty, you go in and order your pint and you sit there on your own reading the paper and probably disturb the few guys at the bar, as they now have a stranger in their midst!!
The other point I would like to make is this. I live across the road, dead opposite, the Premier Inn Marine Court. Its doing great business. The smoking ban has NOT affected them one iota. Pubs doing food are now the thing. they have captured the market. They are moneyed, have spent considerable amounts on lighting and seating and lo and behold the public like it. This is where the market went. Jo Bloggs now brings his wife with him and goes here, and places like it. The traditional customer has moved on to something new.
I still like an oul pub myself. Am fond of The White Horse, its a hundred yards away...but I dont go in as much as I did once because it became so gloomy. I can be gloomy at home!
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
14 January 2010
16:0137542I stopped smoking many years ago. Only my personal view this, but if pubs want smoking, let them. It`s easier for a non smoker like myself to avoid going in a pub than a smoker not being able to go in one. I`d object with food places though. I view many strange things with our species, one of which is putting leaves into paper, popping them into our mouth`s, then setting fire to it. (Thank you Bob Newhart).
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Terry Nunn
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,304
14 January 2010
17:0937551What really pee's me off is seeing "workers" standing outside shops and offices smoking. Do non smokers get an equal amount of time standing about doing nothing?
It was particularly galling last year queing in Lloyds with only two tellers working and two standing outside on a fag break.
Terry (a non smoker)
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?