Guest 682- Registered: 19 Jan 2009
- Posts: 146
15 February 2009
09:0915496#21
That is disgusting Ross.
I don't know if that shop is on DPAC (Dover Partnership Against Crime) and of sourse an individual is not shop lifting until they leave the premises without paying.
With a DPAC Radio the store can call for assistance - give a description of the person/people involved and the well trained Dover Distroct Council CCTV Operators will follow them liaising with the police until they can intercept - that's how DPAC works and can and does work well.
Some of you may have been in some retail premises and heard the radio going - this in itself can no doubt be a deterrant to anyone looking to commit a crime - knowing that assistance can be available in a matter of seconds.
Dover, and for that matter Deal & Sandwich, are well covered by CCTV and it is of a very high quality using state of the art equipment that can be used as evidence.
There was a very interesting display on how shop, pubs, etc. link an incident to the police through the CCTV network at the Community Safety Day in Pencester Gardens every year, usually during July.
This event will be listed at
www.dover.gov.uk through the 'What's On' box on the Home Page as are many, many other events being promoted for all to enjoy throughout the entire District throughout the year.
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
15 February 2009
14:0415516#22
As you say Nigel, a few times I have heard DPAC radio conversations between shops & the CCTV operators giving detailed descriptions and routes about person/persons involved in criminal activities. They do a great job
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
15 February 2009
18:3815522#23
Very gratifying to have two additional ferry port destinations from Dover added in one day. Rather sad that we have to rely on foreign operators to provide the excitement these days. Only a few years ago British ferry companies reigned on the channel. Now Britanny Ferries dominate the Western Channel, LD Lines run from Portsmouth and Transmanche Ferries from Newhaven. Folkestone is derelict as a consequence of the demise of Sealink following privatisation and the subsequent Sea Containers debacle. Ramsgate is home to the rather curious Transeuropa Ferries, running to Ostend and manned by Croatians.
Dover hosts SeaFrance, Maersk and P&O (owned in France, Denmark and Dubai respectively) and the port itself may be destined to follow the traditional privatisation route into foreign hands as per the airports, the nuclear industry, the railways, the utilities, etc, etc.
As some consolation, LD Lines are British manned. This is not from choice but to avoid the onerous French social security obligations. Equally, we have the French unions to thank for the P&O and Maersk vessels retaining British crews as they will not countenance other than British or French crews running between Britain and France. I should really be a paid-up member of the CGT!
LD Lines are the new kids on the block but look set to become major players in the years to come. They are part of the Louis Dreyfus empire and consequently have the financial wherewithal to weather the recession and to expand wherever they sense the opportunity. Both Norfolk Line and SeaFrance are frequently quoted as being in their sights.
Norfolk Line is shortly dispensing with having their crewing being supplied by Maersk Marine Services and will be manning the vessels direct, which may or may not be of significance. SeaFrance is a basket case which has lost a fortune in the last couple of years. SNCF has stated that it has no intention of selling the company off but has demanded substantial cuts. The troubled Moliere is off to refit with the elderly Renoir standing in, and the increasingly bedraggled Cezanne has gone off to Dunkerque seemingly to lay-up with the retired Manet.
LD came on the scene when P&O axed many of their routes in the run-up to the company being sold off. LD stepped in when P&O closed the Portsmouth-Le Havre service. They acquired the ex-Dover ferry Aquitaine from P&O and have been running her very successfully as the Norman Spirit. Their concept is that of a no-frills low-cost yield-management operation which has proved very popular with the freight operators and with Brit ex-pats living in Normandy.
An additional vessel has now been added to the route in the form of the Norman Voyager, although she is an off-the-peg Italian Visentini newbuild which has experienced numerous teething troubles, not least car drivers initially complaining of having to negotiate a death ramp to an open-air skating-rink car deck!
Following their entry into the UK ferry scene at Portsmouth, LD then took over management of the Transmanche Ferries operation between Newhaven and Dieppe. They inherited two new Spanish-built ferries which were put into service three years ago, the Cote d'Albatre and the Seven Sisters.
LD are not entirely happy with these twins but have to make the most of them. Basically, they are smaller than is economically desirable but their size is the maximum that Newhaven can handle. Their predecessors went aground from time to time on the shallow bar at the entrance and the Seven Sisters sustained damage last year when she collided with the breakwater.
LD manages Transmanche on behalf of the Conseil General de Seine-Maritime who subsidise the Newhaven-Dieppe route to encourage British tourism to Dieppe and the surrounding region. The accounts are accordingly kept entirely separate from the rest of the LD operation. The subsidy pays for three round trips per day from Dieppe to the UK. This requires more than one ferry but less than two.
The route has always operated on a knife-edge. In order to try to make the service pay and to help the Dieppe council to keep the subsidy affordable, LD has been using the excess availability to run a daily round trip from Newhaven to Le Havre. This has not made money. Therefore they are going to try a daily round trip from Dieppe to Dover and see if that makes money. This way, Dieppe still gets three daily sailings to the UK.
With the demise of Speed Ferries, they are going to combine this with two round trips from Dover to Boulogne. As these side trips are separate from the operation subsidised by Dieppe, LD are effectively chartering the ships from Transmanche during these periods. The Transmanche livery is accordingly retained as the ships are owned by TMF not LD.
The livery derives from the time when TMF was instituted following the decision of P&O-Stena to pull out of Newhaven-Dieppe and concentrate on Dover. TMF chartered the Sardinia Vera from Corsica Ferries, who have the yellow hull colour. TMF just added a big green T on the hull and the funnel. Rather attractive in my opinion.
Dieppe also had to somewhat reluctantly purchase the port of Newhaven after Sea Containers bailed out. Sea Containers were handed this and several other ports for peanuts, together with the Sealink fleet, when Sealink was flogged off in the great British Rail privatisation give-away. They retained it all for a suitable period then sold everything off at great profit, cheerfully provided at the expense of the British taxpayer.
Newhaven is in a state of disrepair and there is no money to do it up. Dieppe have offended the locals by closing off their beach rather than cough up for renovations required to keep the access safe. Newhaven council is trying to get the beach declared as a village green as this would force Dieppe to reopen it! They are drawing inspiration from the fact that the Estonian master of a cargoship entering the port was breathalysed and subsequently prosecuted for drink driving under the Road Traffic Act!
LD originally intended to open the Dover-Boulogne route in July. This is when the first of the new berths in the outer harbour will be completed enabling the current generation of superferries to berth for the first time. They have tentatively pencilled-in the Norman Spirit to transfer from Portsmouth, with another vessel, unspecified as yet, to take her place.
The end of Speed Ferries and a reduction in the Newhaven-Dieppe subsidy has persuaded them to use one of the TMF ferries to perform two daily round trips Dover-Boulogne. These are small enough to berth in the inner harbour on the old berth vacated by Speed One.
Curt Stavis of Speed Ferries approached Pierre Gehanne of LD last July when it was apparent that time was running out for Speed Ferries. They had been playing catch-up ever since they commenced the service, selling tranches of tickets in advance to pay for current operations. They had originally chartered the vessel at a very favourable rate from the shipyard in Australia when it was itself in receivership. The shipyard recovered but the charter ran out and Speed Ferries were forced to take out a bank mortgage on the vessel at higher cost. The huge rise in fuel costs last year allied to the fall in the value of sterling against the Euro were the final straw.
LD were prepared to help Speed Ferries remain in business but Curt was adamant that Speed One had to remain in service and the talks stalled over this. High speed catamarans are bad news and a recipe for losing money. They cannot carry freight and this is what pays the bills. Tourist traffic is icing on the cake. The LD operation will carry freight, cars, coaches, foot pax, the lot.
It was rather sad to see Speed Ferries go under as Curt and his backers seemed a well-intentioned bunch. They were successful in forcing their competitors to reduce their tourist rates to compete but it is now apparent that this was only possible at the expense of a huge unwitting subsidy from other interests.
They went bankrupt owing several million Euros to the ports of Boulogne and Dover, their suppliers, and all the passengers who had bought books of tickets in advance - which they were still selling up until the last minute. They mounted a very successful and highly questionable "Fight the Pirates" campaign which provided immense free publicity but at the end of the day they will be remembered as being the pirates themselves. Not what they would have wanted.
The LD service to Boulogne will carry foot pax as and when they can open up a desk in the Booking Hall. P&O have a spare desk but have a lease until 2014 and are not prepared to release it. I seem to recall reading that LD do not envisage carrying foot pax to Dieppe as the costs involved do not add up.
Pierre Gehanne has a blog on the LD Lines website and appears refreshingly open and dynamic. One wonders what he makes of having to entertain the very different character of the beleagured Bob Goldfield at DHB with his extraordinary treatment of his loyal workforce, the scathing contempt apparent in the leaked correspondence from the port users, and his seemingly doomed plans for port expansion.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
15 February 2009
19:0815524#24
Excellent feature there Ed. Many thanks for that. Lots of information there for everyone to absorb and I enjoyed absorbing it.
Arriving yesterday evening as night falls..
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
15 February 2009
21:0215531#25
Yes indeed, good write-up Ed. - thanks.
Roger
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
16 February 2009
00:4015537#26
Yes thanks for that Ed, it clears up a lot of rumours doing the rounds at the moment.
Am I alone in loving the colour of the Cote d'Albatre? It makes a nice change from all the red white and blue - I love it! I can't wait to go on her for a trip to Boulogne - a beautiful city.
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Alec Sheldon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 18 Aug 2008
- Posts: 1,037
16 February 2009
02:4015539#27
Excellent report Ed. as usual. Lots of information there to digest. I didn't know that LD ships were British crewed. Is that just officers or overall ?.
As you say, we have the French unions to thank for our British jobs on P&O and Norfolk Lines (Maersk). If it wasn't for them the ships would be crewed by Poles, Croats and Estonians as are the Ramsgate/Ostend ships.. Are you sure that you are not a member of the CGT Ed.
I am sure that you know that Louis Dreyfus had a British branch until a few years ago, Buries Markes the "La" boats. You must have come across them in your deep sea career Ed. They were good jobs, I nearly joined one of them years ago in Manchester, an iron ore boat called "La Hacienda", someone beat me to it though.
Alec Sheldon. aka Trader in a previous life.
PS. You put me on to "shipsnostalgia" Ed. I also sailed with Alex.(Ferries) and Tony (Deep sea) your brothers in law.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
16 February 2009
10:1115547#28
Its good to have you oul pros Alec and Ed to give us the true vision of seafaring. We all greatly appreciate it I know. The story comes from the horses mouth as it were.
Unregistered User
16 February 2009
19:5115561#29
It should be recognised that is not only is LD going to Boulogne but also will be servicing Dieppe a new route & offering Dover an alternative market. Newhaven will be disturbed losing a ship.
A very comfortable ship, a little cosier than the other ferries.
Watty
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
16 February 2009
19:5915563#30
having seen newhaven fairly recently, and read ed's post, they do not really deserve that much sympathy in my view.
Unregistered User
17 February 2009
08:3515587#31
Apparently the French own the port at Dieppe which makes this Dover-Dieppe link more intriguing.
Watty
17 February 2009
13:1915610#32
Dieppe's a nice town for a day out/overnight stay as well. Good for Dover that we now have a new link to that part of northern France too.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
17 February 2009
13:3615611#33
Andy I know Nick and I knew your Dad when he was the our man in Boulogne,saw Nick a few months ago at Dover Priory Station,hadn't seen him for a while.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
17 February 2009
15:1515614#34
Hi John,
I didn't realise you knew Nick and my Dad - great stuff.
Next time I'm at Dover Priory, I'll introduce myself.
All the best,
Andy
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
17 February 2009
16:2515615#35
all we need now is the belguim routes to open up then were back to the good old days.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
17 February 2009
16:3015617#36
And for them to start taking foot passengers.....
especially to Boulogne.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
18 February 2009
11:4315653#37
A spokesman for LD Lines last week said that they will be accepting foot passengers in the coming months, I suppose it will have to wait until there is a Booking Desk up and running.
Guest 682- Registered: 19 Jan 2009
- Posts: 146
18 February 2009
11:5315654#38
And a few other things Barry......
18 February 2009
13:5715656#39
Rival companies obstructing the new boys, perhaps? No way. Shurely shome mishtake...
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
18 February 2009
17:2315661#40
QUOTE from Alec:
..... I didn't know that LD ships were British crewed. Is that just officers or overall ?.
Not noticed them advertise but am going by Pierre Gehannes blog where he answered one criticism somewhat peevishly by stating that they are UK flagged and manned. On investigation, I see that they originally introduced the Norman Spirit with Italian manning but the French unions demanded that they be French or British, so they plumped for British as there is not the social security baggage. Imagine that the officers are British and the remainder a pot-pourri. This is the case on the Norfolk Line vessels from Dover, where the deck and engine are all British but the catering are half and half British and Portuguese.
The TMF vessels are registered in Dieppe so no doubt are predominantly French. However, Seamariner rang me up at one time asking if I could do a week on the old "Dieppe." I was already booked for two weeks on another ship so could not oblige. Later heard I had a lucky escape as she was a wreck. Believe LD/TMF are expected to take on a lot of the ex Speed Ferries personnel.
...... Are you sure that you are not a member of the CGT Ed.
Her indoors is doing her bit. She went to Paris to visit her sister whilst I was away last time. There was a national strike and, on turning a street corner, they ran into the CGT demonstration in the photo below. They fell in behind and marched along with them for a couple of miles, chanting "Sarkozy cochon" with the rest of them!
......PS. You put me on to "shipsnostalgia" Ed. I also sailed with Alex.(Ferries) and Tony (Deep sea) your brothers in law.
Saw a very interesting post from you on SN only recently. I post very occasionally as "Oceanspan" (the old Marconi transmitter which I sailed with on many ships in those long gone halcyon days). Alex is very busy flying around the world involved with cable ships and is due in from Houston shortly. Tony is back on the P&O Dover ferries after a long period when he could not get a transfer from the "Pride of Hull" with all the travelling which that entailed.
Ed
