Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
4 February 2009
09:4914690looks likely maggie.
4 February 2009
10:0414691Get a grip, chaps - if you have never been the butt of abuse, lucky you. If you have never heard or been party to some of the words mentioned being used offensively, again, lucky you. Golliwog CLEARLY has the final syllable used as an abusive term, and I can barely believe people are arguing otherwise!!! But saying the word isn't offensive - there are some lovely words that I think are ok to use that have the potential to cause offence and have a basic anglo-saxon background that, when used in the right context are beautiful, appropriate, and ok! It's the context and the history that matter.
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
4 February 2009
10:3314695Good point about larval forms Maggie. I'm surprised the term 'tadpole' hasn't yet been hijacked by the PC brigade as being offensive to the population of Warsaw.
Did you know that after 120 years of pretty much the same image on their labels Camp Coffee recently changed their traditional image of an Indian soldier bringing a British officer tea to the two having a chat and drinking together? Although it is usually a shame to lose traditions, the thinking behind this is understandable, the company would want to move with the times without losing brand image. Theoretically they should not have to change it, but in a business governed by market forces and a changing society, who can blame them for playing it safe?
Sadly we do not live in an objective theoretical world; offence is often seen where none was intended. Ultimately every single one of us is prejudiced in some manner whether we like to admit it or not, the only people who are not are either newborn babies or dead. Keeping any such prejudices hidden from public display is the trick.
Before and after:
4 February 2009
10:4914696Of course we all have prejudices!! Human Nature! But it is important to understand that, even if we do have prejudices, they are just that: irrational fears or dislikes of groups without reason or justice. And we should, morally, do our best to reduce anything that encourages prejudice.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
4 February 2009
11:5014698ok then here we go try this for size and then tell me what i am talking about,a set of coulerd pins with affro carribian hairstyle in various disgises.good luck.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
4 February 2009
19:0814717I'm sorry Bern, but I completely disagree with your point of view as regards golliwog.
Carol Thatcher was NOT being racist; how can a child's doll, be racist for goodnes sake ?
All golliwogs have curly black hair don't they ? Are we to ban barby dolls because they all have blonde straight hair. Why the prejudice ?
To describe a white man's hair to that of a golliwog's cannot be racist, it simply cannot - it's just describing what it looked like - would it have been O.K. if it had beeen described as, or compared to, a Rasta's.
No matter what you say about racism and prejudice, this is just over sensitivity in the extreme: creating racism where there is none.
The BBC were totally wrong - on this and reinstating Jonathon Ross.
Roger
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
4 February 2009
20:0714722Even if she wasn't intending to be racist, she is smart enough and old enough to know better.
Generally I attribute this kind of small mindedness to the parents, which is exactly what I will do in this case.
4 February 2009
20:0714723We do not know if she was being racist -we were not there and did not hear the context or the manner in which she said it. A childs doll can, of course, be racist, like anything else can be racist, and golliwogs were used, in p[art, as a tool to keep people in their places by degrading and trivialising them. But that wa then and this is now, and we need to be careful and cautious without being fantical and dogmatic, in order to ensure that we do not, accidentally or on purpose, carry on a tradition of trivialisation and degradation.
4 February 2009
20:0814724DT1 - we must have posted at the same time - and I like your post!!!!!!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
4 February 2009
20:1914726funnily i spotted camp coffee in the supermarket the other day, never noticed that bit about the change of characterisation.
maybe i was too busy looking for my usual "gunga din" bottled water.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,696
4 February 2009
21:2014735How do you know it was a white man she was talking about Roger, given that the detail of the conversation have not been disclosed?
As many others have said she is a well educated intelligent woman and should have considered her words before uttering them particularly in that hotbed of over sensitive PCism.
Her choice of words were fool hardy and thoughtless and she deserved to be chastised for that. She lost her job on "The One Show" not for the utterance itself but for the lack of a comprehensive apology, she by the way still filming other shows for the BBC.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
4 February 2009
23:1414736I dont care what you say, I like golliwogs and the ending of the golly on the jamjar was a sad day for a slice of our history! This country has gone utterly bonkers.
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
4 February 2009
23:4314737I just think we are going too far, it appears it is not those of other origins that take offence at remarks like this and if they do, they do not go on and on about it. For goodness sake the golliwog is part of
my childhood nothing to do with race at all and I am sure people of ethnic groups collected the little labels and wore the badges as well.
My best mate in the army was called Chalky and I also had a nickname (not telling you though) we called each other it all the time, we did not fall out over it why should we. No we were friends and we watched each others backs and I would trust him as he did me and if we met again tomorrow we would still call each other by the same names of that I have no doubt.
Barry is right we have gone mad in this Country.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
4 February 2009
23:5114739Been nice knowing you :)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 February 2009
00:2714743paul
it could liven up again with that picture that phil posted of two blokes sitting down enjoying a "camp" coffee together.
political correctness is never ending.
Guest 667- Registered: 6 Apr 2008
- Posts: 919
5 February 2009
07:4314747You call it what you want Paul, it' is true and it is meant to reflect racism is there only if you want it to be. There appears to be people who want to stir it up the race card, when there is certainly No intent meant, they are the ones who are a bore.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
5 February 2009
08:4914748And then are those that blindly defend these (establishment) public figures, whilst at the same time condeming the likes of Ross and Brand. I mean, they where only talking about sex, the f word is just another way of saying sex, and sex isn't offensive, after all we are all the product of it!
Infact why discuss anything, why talk, or why think. Perhaps we should just let the Daily Mail do that for us?
5 February 2009
08:5614750EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
5 February 2009
09:1214753I'm surprised at your posting DT1 and disappointed too.
I don't defend anyone because they are "establishment" figures or condemn Ross for talking about sex.
I think the BBC were wrong to sack Carol Thatcher over what was a light-hearted "private" comment and conversation about someone' hairstyle.
Now we are creating a situation where people will be frightened to talk to who they think are friends, perhaps down the pub, in case someone reports them to the "thought police" or the extreme PC Brigade officer for an off the cuff remark.
No more personal or private conversations as DT1 says.
Why trivialise the Daily Mail ? it isn't afraid to tell people just how far down this road of self destruction we have travelled and we seem to be gathering pace. We need to wake up soon or we really will be under the snitch and tell regime - paying people to tell on others.
Roger
Terry Nunn
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,302
5 February 2009
09:1414754Interesting that Radio 3 happily announce Debussy's Golliwog's Cakewalk but Classic FM usually say Children's Cakewalk.
Daft init?
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
