Absolutely! Distasteful thoughit may be, we may have to think around corners a bit rather than condemn and vilify.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Bern - read again what I am saying. What I want would get at the big boys through their minions. This would 'roll up' the drugs industry and destroy it.
Maybe we should be condemning a lot more and vilifying those who deserve it. Time to end this non-judgemental pc tosh.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
nicking the big villains and pc do not sit together barry.
they are far too clever to get close to being convicted, only the simpletons with the iq of a centipede ever get nicked.
do we hang our "big issue" seller?
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
I was going to say I cannot believe this claptrap, but sadly given who has posted it I can.
The libertarian view would (surely) be to legalise the trade, thus leading to no drug related crime. But that of course misses the pleasure sought by the flog 'em and hang 'em brigade.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
ross
legalising will never happen, people at the top like to have demons.
the fact that legalisation would reduce organised crime and also help to protect the old person living alone from being assaulted or murdered does not enter the equation.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
I absolutely agree Howard
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
I absolutely agree Howard
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Think again it has all been said by Ross.
You will as howard says have great difficulty in finding the big boys in this one, they are far to clever to get caught, and many layers between them and the little boys at the bottom.
I don't think the Portugal Idea will work, just make it worse
interesting tho
This is nowt to do with PC more to do with peoples lives
How irritating that even in matters of practice and sense, PC is used as a weapon and a distraction. There is nothing PC about harmful substances and their effect on peoples lives. Get off the cross of PC for a while and just talk.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
people cross the road withour using crossings, drive dangerously and many other things.
part of life is us humans doing stupid things, drug taking is just another.
the problem is when desperation sets in and they resort to crime instead of popping down to boots to buy some.
Spot on, Howard - risk taking (or "doing stupid things"!) is part of life and a big part of the growing up process. It is only when it encroaches on others that it becomes a social problem. Social problems need a bit of round-the-corner thinking and straightforward bang-em-up talk isn't always the way to acheve the results you want.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
Barry, firstly as the death penalty has been abolished, even after a fair trial death would still be murder as it is technically unlawful. If we were to retract this, we may as well retract the laws put in place to make these substances illegal in the first place, problem solved! (not). It's all well and good learning from the past but just resurrecting it is rarely the answer for the future. The only people that would die would be the dealers, and by dealers I mean the people supplying directly to the streets. These are usually just as much victims, having to supply in aid to fund their habits themselves. There are then a number of levels above (the group I think you would like to kill) that are facilitating this trade without even touching these poisons.
The organisations in place that supply drugs to this and other countries are so huge that even by taking 'major' dealers in the UK would be futile as the systems would be left in place and someone else would just take over. This is bigger than just us, something that perhaps the Chinese overlooked in the 19th century when taking on that formidable drug dealing force, 'The British Empire'
To suggest this has anything to do with political correctness is madness. I think the 'PC gone mad' has 'gone mad'. Place like Thailand and other major trafficking routes have ridiculous penalties, yet people still take the risk. They are also really sexist (by our definitions) and have no regard for health and safety, yet still have massive problems. Regulating actions is no different to attempting to regulate thought that leads to actions; 'why can't I be racist' is just as much an argument as 'why can't I take drugs if I want to'. So I agree PC has no place in this debate.
As Marek points out, Portugal has recently relaxed all laws on substances at user level and has reported no higher use of drugs (supposedly a drop, although I haven't seen anything exact). Drug related crime is down, but then that goes without saying as people aren't being busted for possession. This actually does present significant benefits and allows regulation and safeguard of vulnerable addicts and possible rehabilitation. However I don't think this is the answer either (You're right Ross this is the liberal approach). The only way to stop the dealers is to stop people becoming users. This can only be achieved through a healthy and educated society. You only have to look at the levels of drug abuse in countries with high levels of social capital. Most users of hard drugs normally display previous mental health issues, abuse or a background of deprivation. As a microcosm you only have to compare somewhere like Deal to Dover or Margate, look at the level of unemployment, mortality rate and level of drug abuse.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Excellent post DT1. I have often wondered why some people use drugs and others do not. Is it the lack of a proper family upbringing. There are 26 direct descendents from my fathers genes and none take drugs. We were disciplined as children and taught what was right or wrong. It didnt prevent us especially me from making mistakes but it did offer a guideline. We were all encouraged to embrace the free education system available at the time with 6th form ,college and university. Work was not a dirty word but signing on the rock and roll was not an option. Respect for other peoples property and polite manners, which we were often told, cost nothing and were a pre requiste for getting on in life.
Compare that with what some children of todays society are subjected to....single underage mothers who only bore a child in order to jump up the council house waiting list.Parents who physically and mentally abuse their kids.The everyday use of foul language,the smoking of cannabis as if it were a brand of ciggy freely available from the corner shop.The lack of parental guidance but more importantly LOVE .All of these things must contribute to todays children feeling unwanted unloved and uncared for its no wonder they resort to chemicals to possess a feeling of calm and belonging.
It is so important that every child is offered the best education available,that there are proper skills and trade apprentices.That proper affordable council housing is available close to their hometown or workplace.There is a lot to be said about the old mining cottages and the sense of belonging to a community that they afforded the local workers. The gap between the rich and the poor needs to be lessened with fairer taxation.Obscene fat cat bonuses and golden handshakes need to be eliminated. A final one off payment which is far greater than a normal working person can earn in a life time is just morally unacceptable. Before we start locking up 1000s of drug users who use it as a form of escapism we need to address the above problems.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
All so true. Marek - I miss your regular posts! Another factor often neglected in the substance misuse stakes is the "chaos" gene, often inherited, sometimes learned. Social factors are clearly the biggest contributor to chaotic lives and addictions, as you wisely point out, but there is a large body of credible evidence around genetics, and if you look at families with chaotic histories it is often visible. Not that all members will have the gene - like all genetics, it is sometimes random.
