Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
19 February 2011
14:4193315Bern, to have any kind of sex-relation with a person under a certain age - if I am not mistaken that age is 16 - is illegal, no matter how much consent there may be.
Some men are known to have specifically targeted girls in order to have sex with them, and this is totally unacceptable. It is illegal, and must be prevented, and for this we need severe sentencing.
Girls should be thouroughly warned at school and at home to avoid men trying to approach them. Such men try to exert a fascination, probably accompanied by compliments and smiles, in order to have sex.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,835
19 February 2011
15:3493322I have always thought it is wrong for the young boy to be the guilty party when quite often it is the underage girl who "starts the ball rolling" so to speak, they are both guilty. Girls are no longer the innocent little things in short socks and pigtails that they were in my generation, most of them know exactly what they are doing.
Loved your post Bern.
Alexander, girls are thoroughly warned in school and hopefully at home as well.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
19 February 2011
15:4093323That's why we have a law promissing a sentencing on males who do not take this warning seriously!
19 February 2011
15:5293326I won't dwell on this, but just to point out to Alexander that I am not talking about scumbag older guys who target the young, but about those first steps on the ladder of relationships that should not be criminalised unless there is a good reason and evidence of coersion.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
19 February 2011
15:5793328i think alex has missed the main points here, there is a world of difference between the shadowy predators that groom youngsters and a young couple that carried away whilst one of them is under the age of consent.
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
19 February 2011
19:0193362I can remember watching Dixon of Dock Green in the late fifties, when I was about ten years old. One episode was about a fourteen year old girl who had become pregnant. Even as a ten year old, I was just as shocked as PC Dixon even though I was very innocent and probably didn't have much idea how it happened, something to do with cabbage plants I seem to remember my mum telling me. Then came the Sixties and the sexual revolution. Half a century on, I suspect that a lot of fourteen year old girls lead a very active sex life and it is blinkered to pretend otherwise.
Put yourself in the position of a spotty eighteen year old boy in a disco late at night, plastered to the eyeballs, can't believe his luck when he pulls this gorgeous apparition dolled up to look at least his age. Somehow neglects to check her I.D., passport, gas bill, whatever, and gets treated to a wham-bam-thankyou-mam kneetrembler in the doorway of McDonalds. Wakes up in the morning with a thumping hangover wondering where he was last night.
Some time later she discovers she is pregnant, proud father one of many possibilities. What to tell mum and dad? Finger said spotty youth and say she was led astray. Turn up in court in school uniform and pigtails. Spotty youth blacklisted for life as a sex offender. This is the other side of the coin and a world away from predatory paedophiles.
"Evening all"
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
19 February 2011
19:2893371The law says firmly that sex with people under a certain age is illegal. Even an 18 year old should have enough common sense to realise this!
A girl who has drunk a few glasses of alcohol-drink in a pub and been complemented and enchanted, should not be taken advantage of. To take advantage of a young person for sexual desire is no cavalier's act!
I would have thought that it be paramount to teach young people (including the 18year old above mentioned), that a relationship involves love from the heart and dedication, where people get to know each-other first, and by this I mean NOT throufgh sex. To take advantage of an inexperienced young girl does not give any credit to the 18 year old.
19 February 2011
19:3593374No argument here Alexander, but frankly, get real. Yes, it would be better, physically and emotionally, if young people waited. But being practical I have told my kids all the good reasons not to jump into a physical relationship but if it happens they need to get a certified AIDS test off the prospective partner, use protection, and take care. I have US friends who tell me that in the USA it is often seen as a badge of merit to display the AIDS test certificate, positive or otherwise, as an indicator that you care. AIDS, by the way, is not a bar to a physical relationship, it just means you have to approach things a bit differently.........
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
19 February 2011
19:4393376Fair enough, Bern, but one can't stress enough the vulnerability of young girls, who are srtill going to school, and are far too young to consider the consequences of a sexual relationship.
Your post above also sidelines the fact concerning age. The law is intended to categorically protect girls under a certain age from being involved in sex. No matter what precautions and protections.
19 February 2011
19:4593377That's a bit like those who say that a restraining order will protect victims of domestic abuse. Paperwork never stopped a fist.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
19 February 2011
19:5293378No, Bern! Violence against women used to be encouraged and institutionalised, as was the beating of children. Public outcry against domemstic abuse, and sensibilising people from young on not to carry out domestic violence is all-important, as too are the laws that protect people from domestic abuse.
The same must aply to protect young girls from sex-lust! A 15 year old girl must not be the object of anyone's sexual desires. I would also strongly recommend that 16 and 17 are also young ages for girls to lose track of reality.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
19 February 2011
20:0093381It is better to make a distinction between an under-age girl and a woman. A woman is more likely to decide whether the bloke who's chatting her up is really interested in a durable relationship and can also look after her and understand her.
A 15 to 17 year old girl who is not married should not be encouraged to have sex. However, the law does consider sex illegal under a certain age, and that's the point, that it is not fair to rumage around with this law, as if some young bloke was immune from considering all these facts of life.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
19 February 2011
20:0093382Without wishing to be tarred with the same brush, I would point out that females occasionally have the odd sexual appetite which needs to be satisfied NOW!!
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
19 February 2011
20:0493383Too true, Peter, too true.
I think we should allow Alexanders point though and make that distinction between the grown ups and those too young to properly understand consequences.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
19 February 2011
22:4993414And nobody has put forward any strategies which fat middle-aged men like me can use to fend off these Lolitas. It's beginning to interfere with my afternoon nap.
With Pfizer closing, will I be able to get my Viagra? Oh, the stress!!!!
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,701
19 February 2011
23:0693421The sad reality is that as a society through our media we sexualise children at an ever younger age, gone are those halcyon days of 15 year old boys running around in shorts and being more interested in their bicycles than getting a ride from the local "bike", the same is true for girls for that matter.
Unless you genuinely believe that a whole culture and the money mechanism that sits behind it can somehow be magicked away overnight then the reality is that highly sexualised teenagers will have intercourse with each other and with adults, albeit only a few years older than them. There is nothing you or the law (a blunt edged sword at best) can do to stop it. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that the vast majority of teens between 13 & 16 have seen more porn than their parents have in their entire life; as a consequence they are highly sexually aware and are usually keen to put it into practice. All we can hope for is that there are enough sensible parents (like Bern) to caution their offspring to be careful.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
19 February 2011
23:3493430Ross that is the most sensible post I have seen on the subject. My kids are now between 28 and 35 so for us it is no longer an issue but I believe and hope we did a good job in bringing them up.
Exposure to foreign cultures where moral strictures are very tight might have been a factor; however that could have swung either way.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
20 February 2011
01:2193439Going along with Peter and Ross's posts, a friend of mine was very involved in youth work in the 80s and 90s and told me the authorities then had a rule of thumb in considering whether or not to prosecute in cases of underage sex, and that was which one of the pair took the young ladies knickers off (a bit crude but it is after the watershed, and apologies to those of you who have already gone to bed and are now reading this over breakfast before going to church
)
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,835
20 February 2011
11:0093458I am very sorry Alexander, but I think it is time to join the real world with regard to 14 and definitely 15 year old girls. I say that with my youngest grand-daughter in that age bracket, thank goodness at the moment she is more interested in gymnastics than boys.
The vast majority of them know exactly what they are doing with regards to sex and will often instigate the sex act. The last thing ANY youngster is going to say prior to the act is say "are you 16" besides the girl will often have said she IS over 16. Most young girls say they are older than they are when they meet an older boy they like.
Sadly things have changed from the days when the early teens were the young and innocent of old.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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20 February 2011
11:0593459Agreeing with you up to a point, but to look at it more closely (Peter, no funny comments please) one has to ask why young girls - and boys - are at it earlier and more. Ross has focussed us appropriately on the societal sexualisation of the young and that is where things have messed up. The commercialisation of just about everything has dragged standards down and it is unlikely to reverse, so we have to manage it as best we can and protect those who need it, effectively and pragmatically.
