Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
1 November 2009
18:4632198I had this come throutgh as an email and read it and felt it good to read. I did wonder though if it was kosher or just written by some white man masquerading as a Black man.
I did a search for "Joe Igbokwe lagos nigeria" and sure enough up came this report.
South Africa isn't perfect by any means, but maybe all is not lost there.
Here's that report:
SIR: On Thursday October 1, 2009, the National Chairman of our great party Chief Bisi Akande; the Lagos State Chairman of the Party in Lagos, Chief Dele Ajomale; his wife; the representative of the Governor and my humble self left for South Africa to inaugurate the chapter of our party. Business finished on Saturday October 2 and 3, 2009 in both Pretoria and Johannesburg. We had Sunday October 4 to look around. It was my first visit to South Africa and what I saw stunned me.
Am I in Africa or Europe? Am I in America? Is this another Singapore? Could this be true? Where was Nigeria when South Africa was putting all these structures in place? If the white man did all these in South Africa why were the Nelson Mandelas of this world complaining? If South Africans got their independence on a platter of gold the way Nigeria got hers in 1960, would there have been all these structures I am seeing here today? Impossible! From what I saw on ground in South Africa, it looked as if all the companies and industries all over the world are physically present there. Ah! Nigeria has been left behind. South Africa is the potential and undisputable leader in Africa. Thanks to the white South Africans.
I came to the unhappy conclusion that the mosquitoes that drove the whites away from Nigeria in 1960 did a colossal and unmitigated damage to Nigerians. I again asked myself these questions: How many black Africans did the whites kill before surrendering power to them? How many Nigerians have been killed by Nigerian leaders since they took over power from the whites in 1960? Let us compare the figures. I am sure the supreme prize South Africans paid to have the South Africa I see today will be so infinitesimal compared with what our leaders have killed to remain in power in Nigeria.
What I am saying is that God should have allowed the whites to tarry for at least more 30 years in Nigeria and we would have been better for it. Mandela survived 27 years in prison because the whiteman was a better person. He could not have survived 10 years in prison in Nigeria.
My conclusion after seeing what I saw in South Africa is that the whites left Nigeria in a hurry, and that is why we are suffering today. Had the whites tarried in Nigeria, Nigeria would have been like South Africa today. I want the whites back in Nigeria!
Joe Igbokwe,
Lagos.
Interesting eh ?
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
1 November 2009
20:1932209just as an addendum to that post, when the zimbabwean farmers were being kicked out, a lot of big wigs in uganda were trying to lure them there.
the ugandan farming industry was not performing and they wanted successful farmers to come in and make them profitable with large outputs.
at least colour did not enter the equation.
1 November 2009
21:0532224And colour isn't, as you say, the most important part. Farmers who know what they are doing, whatever their colour, are the key. When are we ever going to move on past the colour thing?
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
2 November 2009
08:3432230its not black and white thing is it bern as apossed to a cloured picture.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
2 November 2009
10:1432242In Africa, it IS a black and white thing.
Roger
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
2 November 2009
17:1232265roger, it used to be.
2 November 2009
19:5632285I have spent time in South Africa and visited regularly over the years as my Family are there. It definitely is a race thing and as a country it isn't in my opinion getting any better. It isn't colour as the boers have a great influence too.
What it is is tribal.
same problem for much of africa
Strange tho since in the eastern med its religion
and in the atlantic rim its money....
- mankind will always find an excuse to persecute and corrupt
and for the record the british rule in africa is streets ahead that of belgium and a few other european countries that did terrible atrocities there.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
2 November 2009
20:0232286Not really Roger, whilst the majority of commercial farmers in Zimbabwe were indeed white a significant minority were black and most of these were treated exactly like the white farmers by the ZanuPF thugs under Mugabe. In Zim it was about control and greed and nothing else.
The situation in Nigeria and many other countries is a result of incipient and endemic corruption and the inter-tribal strife brought about by artificial boundaries, created by white men, pushing tribes together when they had little or nothing in common and even ages old emnities (Rwanda anyone?). The old colonial powers and their descendants are both the cause of the problems in and sometimes the salvation of these countries.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
3 November 2009
08:3832310Ross - we can't keep blaming British Colonialism for all of Africas woes.
Britain did not rule every African state, nor create all their borders, but virtually every African state is currupt and run by a one-party dictatorship - that's why they don't publicly condemn Mugabe.
It is tribal there, very tribal and most don't get on with each other, even in the same country.
The point of my original posting was to show the difference between a white-run country
(as of many years ago) and a black-only run country, as of nowadays. Even many blacks can see the difference.
I have photos of Rhodesia and what the buildings and public parks etc. were like in Salisbury and now what they look like in Harare; I also have some of Jo'burg then and now and it is a marked difference.
I have photos of Mugabe's Palace he had built and it is unbelievably opulent, disgustingly so.
Those not of his tribe and who don't vote for him can (and do) starve to death.
Mugabe's land-grab from the whites killed the food harvests and Howard is right that Uganda and other African states offered white farmers, who are skilled in farming, the opportunity to farm there; I don't know how many took up the offer, but I'm sure that many who could get out, did so before being killed by Mugabe's war veterans.
Roger
3 November 2009
15:1632334If this man visited South Africa on 1 October 2009, he was visting it 16 years AFTER the end of Apartheid.
16 years AFTER the end of white-supremacist fascism. 16 years AFTER the end of Nick Griffin / BNP style governmnet.
If he found it a wonderful place in 2009 it goes to show that a democratic South Africa has great potential for the future.
Nigeria's problem is not that it is "ruled by blacks" but that is not a democracy. It has no free and fair elections to protect the interests of the people.
He asks "why did Nelson Mandela complain" about Apartheid and the lack of democracy in South Africa?
Because the Apartheid regime tortured and killed people. Thousands of people. Denied people the vote. Forced them to live in slums. Denied them access to higher education and restricted people (like Mandela who was a solicitor) from practicing their profession. It did this to blacks and to whites who campaigned for democracy.
Quite a few good reasons for complaining really.
The difference is not between white and black but between democracy and dictatorship (whether it is Apartheid of Mugabe-ist dictatorship or any other kind).
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
3 November 2009
17:3432338James - I don't believe there any any fully democratic countries in Africa any more - they may have elections, but most if not all are one-party states.
There are many areas of South Africa where concentrated black ghettos have completely destroyed areas that were once smart suburbs - Hillbrow in Jo'burg for one Stanton City is not as good as it used to be and in 20 years time, it will all be a slum. Even Cape Town has areas that are no go areas now.
Just for the record, Nelson Mandela was put in prison for being a terrorist trying to blow up Government buildings - he was found guilty and sent to prison; any other African state would have executed him.
I have the greatest respect for Nelson Mandela and he has proved the saviour of South Africa - but the Rainbow Nation is not a Country for the squeamish, or those that don't like to have high fences around their property, big dogs and security firms.
Every white person knows someone who has been mugged or killed.
You don't go jogging there, you'd get mugged or shot; you drive to the gym, you don't get out of your car until you are home and in your garage and the electric door has gone up.
Even Johannesburg's Central Business District is a slum and most businesses have moved out.
Apartheid was a wicked system, but it didn't force people to live in slums, blacks were treated as a race apart, definitely not as equals; they weren't denied an education, but many blacks would not go to school, many opposed the white man's education (especially when they were teaching Afrikaans) which was a very big mistake because a whole generation, probably two, grew up unable to read or write.
Roger
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
4 November 2009
00:1432359Roger where in my post did I mention British colonialism? I talked about old colonial powers which does include the UK, but also includes France, Spain, Belgium, Holland, Portugal, Italy and Germany. I would add that the new colonial powers of China and the USA are not making matters any better. It has always been the way that the rich will use the greed and envy of others to get their way, finding the fixer or government official that will take the bribes, the officials that will turn a blind eye to exploitation etc. etc. The problems of Africa are mainly, but not exclusively predicated on the tribal background, though this was and is exacerbated by the arbitrary lines that colonial powers drew on the map as they carved up the continent.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
4 November 2009
09:0032368You forgot to add Russian imperialism and expansion, so rife and so strong in the late 60s and during the whole of the 70s. Most of Africa's problems were caused through Russia and their arms selling to any none who was a "freedom-fighter/terrorist" (depends on which side of the fence you were) and who would align themselves to Russia.
Roger
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
4 November 2009
23:5432444True Roger, my apologies, I did forget to mention the Soviet Union, who along with the USA/NATO fought proxy wars on African soil throughout the Cold War era
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi