Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
8 January 2009
19:4412368#21
BarryW-
Kent miners were forced into industrial action by Thatcher, Betteshanger was still breaking productivity targets when it shut and all three kent pits should still be open today, having coal resources below us is no good without collieries and miners.
You are right though barry when you say our pits closed because of the militancy of Kent miners. That is exactly why Thatcher shut our pits.
All our pits were capable of being profitable, giving many yeas of employment, not just to miners but to many other small business's in our area, future employment for our youth, community spirit, pride, family cohesion and much much more. If our pits were exhausted and we went on stike, then you would be right in calling us militant. The fact is we are sat on 200 hundred years of coal, employment and all of the things that go with that employment. We did the only thing any decent person could do and that was to try and stop Thatcher destroying ours and other's lives.
You want to know why we have social and employment problems? The answer is Thatcher and her Government made a huge mistake using the miners to smash trade unionism.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
8 January 2009
19:4812369#22
thanks garyc well posted.
8 January 2009
20:3712378#23
Extremist idiot......Scargill/Thatcher/Tebbit/Mussolini/Hitler/Murdoch/Mugabe delete as appropriate.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
8 January 2009
22:2512391#24
Bern, if its me your referring to as an extremist idiot I am afraid your wrong, I might be an idiot because I'm not sure what your post is trying to say but I can assure you I am not an extremist. I agree with barryw about trade unions having too much power in the 70s and something needed to be done to address the balance of power that they had, but shutting 90 +pits creating mass job losses for the sake of solving the problem, is way beyond clipping wings. My comments in last post did not come from media propaganda, I lived it, I know what happened and i know how it happened.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
8 January 2009
23:1512392#25
Gary - Kent miners being forced into industrial action by Mrs T is about on a par with Germany being forced in 1939 to go to war by the Polish!!
The best thing Mrs T did was to reform the Trade Unions with some sensible legislation after Labour bottled out in the 60's, the time of Castle's 'In Place of Strife' and then Heath also bottled it with his U-turn. All Parties recognised the menace that was the Trade Unions, who were their own worse enemy. They brought it all upon themselves. If Scargill was a democrat and held a secret strike ballot he would have had a more united Union and could have claimed some of the moral high ground, the outcome could have been different, but he didnt, he relied on intimidation instead. Luckily for this country he was not clever enough to recognise that or didnt want to risk losing the ballot (a more likely outcome).
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
9 January 2009
09:1312402#26
With everyone thinking "green" nowadays and fossil fuels being worst for global warming, it surely must be gpopd that coal mining has (more or less) ended.
The biggest problem when the mines closed was lack of retraining for those who lost their jobs and consequently many miners remained unemployed and on benefits for years, which destroys communities.
My Dad was a coal miner in his younger days but left it after a few years, telling me it was the worst job any man can have.
Roger
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
9 January 2009
09:1812404#27
Here we go,
Barryw Its of no surprize your comments along the anti trade union slant.
I think Gary has given a real good posting from the other side(if there are sides)
Scargill at that time did get a number of things wrong, timing/ballots/ etc but never the less what was worse was Maggies intent on destroying the NUM and trade unions in general.
Thankfully a number of trade unions learnt from the unfair methods Maggie used, and themseves reformed to combat future attacks by maggie.
Sadly we see locally the how communities have been/are ripped apart by Maggies view to take on the NUM an the bigger picture of the trade unions.
This did little for industrial relations not only in the mining community but also across many other companies.business's
As an active trade unionist for 25 years (and still a rep for unison!)
Nothing Maggie did heled workers or the trade unions themselves.
She had one aim, to take on Scargill, to attempt to smash the NUM and trade unions in general.
Sadly a lot of what scargill said at the time(number of pits to close) was denied
sadly he was right.
Theres lots of things that went on during this period that horrified me, and iv worked down Tilmanstone.
What maggie wanted was everyone to go back to the victorian begging for a job at the gate days, not even handed industrial relations where the trade unions working hand in hand with employers.
it happened often, but the maggies days caused rifts in industrial relations.
There was a lot more behind this move by maggie
As everyone knows
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
9 January 2009
09:2512409#28
Every one doesn't know, Keith; nor do they agree with your extremely bias view. It was Scargill who destroyed the unions and the mining industry.
I accept one's view will depend on which side of the fence you're sitting on.
Maggie did not want working people to go back to Victorian times of begging for jobs, that's just very, very silly; she did want to have a good balance between unions and management and that is what she was fighting for.
Roger
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
9 January 2009
09:2912412#29
Roger
As I'v said in other postings yes you have a view, Scargill got some things wrong, but Maggie sole aim was to destroy trade unions in general, and she as good as admitted it. They got in her way!!!
She had no time for them, she made that clear.
And I' interested to know what she did to help trade unions
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
9 January 2009
10:5412427#30
in a word nothing.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
9 January 2009
10:5412428#31
in a word nothing.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
9 January 2009
11:0212431#32
thats 2 words!! (lol)
9 January 2009
11:2412432#33
GaryC - why would you think I was referring to you? Look at the names to which I was referring...!!!
9 January 2009
11:2512433#34
PS - Gary - I am batting mostly on your side!!!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
9 January 2009
12:1412434#35
Actually Roger, there is a lot of work going into clean coal technology so it may yet have a future.
I diagree that Mrs T was out to destroy the Unions, as Roger said she wanted and needed to restore the balance so managers could manage. Me, personally, I would have wanted to destroy the Unions after what they did in the 70's, Mrs T was a bit too soft on them!!!!
Keith, what you dont understand is that businesses need customers with money so it is not in the interests of business to go back to Victorian ways.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
9 January 2009
12:2712436#36
Oh yes i understand, and looks like you don't!
glad your more open on your love for the trade unions
Unregistered User
9 January 2009
12:3212437#37
What Maggie did was made sure TU's reformed. They certainly would not have done that on their own. You have virtually admitted that Keith. She restored unions back to their members not decisionmaking by their general secretaries.
I've yet to see Labour repeal the TU laws, comrades!!
Score draw I'd say so far.
Watty
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
9 January 2009
12:5912440#38
Paulw
You may be surprized, but I wouldn't want ALL the trade union laws repealed!!
some were ok.
But even before maggie started her crusade to crush anyone that opposed her, large trade unions including the one i belonged to at that time, were modernising and being pushed by members(including me!) to get in the real world
Trade unions need to work in partnership with employers, but it needs to be an even playing field, which it isn't at the moment.
Trade unions like many others have a role to play in todays society, and they won't go away.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
9 January 2009
13:5012443#39
bern, sorry, i am not a politcal animal, so i dont understand some posts.
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
9 January 2009
13:5812444#40
Paul, I agree there was problems within the trade unions that needed dealing with but spending £3 Billion and shutting whole coalfields was a bit over the top, don't you think?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"