Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
12 February 2009
07:5315261Dover Express, front page.....
I have been saying on here for years what a lot of other people in Dover have been saying, that Gwyn Prosser is lazy and useless as a MP and local representative. Labour supporters on this forum have all defended GP and challenged what I said.
Now GP is going to be sued. A case elsewhere has opened up the possibility of people sueing their MPs if they fail in their duty. I did wonder when the news of the national case broke whether GP would be sued.
I never, in my wildest expectations, expected the first case to be brought by Keith's brother, an old friend of mine. More to the point a long term Labour activist and former Leader of Labour on DDC.
You really could not make it up.
Good luck Tony.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
12 February 2009
11:2215265Ah Now BarryW you are jumping the gun there. If you read through the copy on the Dover Express frontpage you will see a massive proviso, if that's the right word... I'll quote it..
"Tony Sansum is CONSIDERING taking the MP to court"
The big word there is considering. When you think about it I might be considering going out with Liz Hurley, or I might be considering a Ferrari for my annual bonus, or I might even be considering a Life on Mars...who knows what I might be considering, but I doubt it would make the frontpage of the Dover Express. So I think its a big story about nothing, although if I was in their shoes I would probably put it on the frontpage as well and hope people wouldnt notice the word "considering". If he was actually doing it, then it might be another matter.
Ken Tranter, also not a fan of Gwyn, has resurfaced after a while out of the limelight, with a letter in the Dover Express as well, which is another biting sideswipe at Gwyn. So okay probably not a good PR week in print for our MP but I think it looks like a storm in a tiny teacup.
Wonder how our Keef feels about that frontpage story??
(Keef, staunch labourite, is of course brother to Tony)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
12 February 2009
12:0815269Oh really, PaulB, what a weak defence of Gwyn...
The fact is that a life long Labour supporter, ex leader of DDC Labour Group, feels so neglected by what our second rate MP has (or has not) done for him that he feels he should, OK, 'consider' sueing GP.
When I tell you what an appalling and ineffectual MP GP has been for Dover, you can put it down to political bias. Tony has no such motivation, the opposite in fact, so for him to feel he has to 'consider' sueing our MP and to tell the local media about it is quite a big deal.
Tony has echoed exactly what I have beeen saying for years.
Dover and individual people have been let down by GP time and time again.
Yes, I did love that letter from Ken Tranter and what a kick in the tail!
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
12 February 2009
13:4915272barryw,are we trying to away with not mentioning thr tory councler for eastry WHO is being investigated by the ddc for grazing horses on his farm.dover express page 2.
Sid Pollitt
12 February 2009
14:2415275We'll have to see what happens wont we? The Damien Green story is still rumbling on with Boris Johnson in the news again today. The point I made over that one and will make on this one is dont be so quick to judge, and I take PaulB's point that the story in today's paper may well come to nowt. And I say to BarryW, your views on our MP were probably formed on 2 May 1997 and reflect more on you than on him.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
12 February 2009
14:4315276This sort of thing can happen to any MP from any party Barry and really is nothing to gloat over.
In this instance he had a dispute with the CSA which upon his own admission has been ongoing for over ten years. Why? Any reasonable person would have taken action straight away, when did he first take action?
How did the CSA become involved in the first place, most honourable people reach a legally binding private arrangement without the necessity of the CSA becoming involved.
It appears from the article that Prosser did everything possible to help Mr. Sansum and is even prepared to open the file to public scrutiny, an action that I am sure will be opposed by Sansum.
Considering legal action is neither here nor there and represents nothing but an empty threat in an endeavour to obtain maximum publicity, to actually sue and then let the publicity look after itself is far more effective.
Personally I have no real love for Prosser and often wonder what he actually does for the town that is of positive benefit to us all, however I do consider that Sansum would be a bit of a loose cannon in any political party and all things considered has acted like a prat.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
12 February 2009
18:0315282you got in before me dave, it was a bit of a non article, considering it was on the front page.
how many times do you hear a constituent moan about their MP or councillor not helping them?
all the time.
if an MP does not work miracles with a government department or disagrees with what the constituent has said,
all hell breaks out.
the truth is that all an MP can do is represent a constituent in a grievance.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
12 February 2009
18:4015285I love the way you are all downplaying this and Sid as usual throwing in his red herring instead of addressing the specific point.
Lets just look at a couple of issues from his record as examples.
One of the first actions of the Labour Government in 1997 was to cancel the road building programme which meant the A2 dualling was cancelled. This went with barely a murmur from our new MP GP, he clearly did not want to rock the boat and was quite happy to sacrifice the interests of Dover to the policies of his new Government.
Then there is Buckland Hospital. Paul Watkins, as Tory Candidate, identified a threat from the trust and GP denied it. Apparently he had written to the Trust, obtained a reply and filed it. When PW's revelations were confirmed GP weakly complained that he had been misled by the Trust. He sould not have just taken their word, he should have worked harder to probe their intentions and ask awkward questions but he failed to do so. He was pathetic and clearly did not want to rock to boat.
It seems the motivation claimed by Tony is born out by those two cases. GP is lazy and lacks the tenacity and forensic ability to dig deep into issues on behalf of those he represents.
As for when my views of GP were formed, they were even earlier than 1997 Sid, they were formulated when he was a Councillor, he was out of his depth then. His actions and inactions as MP have confirmed my view, indeed reinforced it.
As for Tony being a loose cannon, come off it, he was no Ken Tranter, far from it. It takes something pretty serious to make such a committed supporter turn so spectacularly against the sitting MP.
Speaking from memory, was not Tony Labour leader when you were a Labour Councillor, Sid? Perhaps you voted for him to gain that capacity....
Sid Pollitt
12 February 2009
19:0815287I dont think you can pin this on me BarryW. And what are you suggesting about Ken? What I was saying was this sounds to the independent minded that there is a grievance here that may or may not be a storm in a teacup. I for one very much doubt that there will be any court action.
BarryW you have called me thick, unintelligent and suggested that I am a fascist in the past. Now you are attacking me for being a former councillor when you do not know the facts, what I say is keep it up because you're the one who doesnt address the issues and if it is my aim is to portray Tories as being in a nasty party you do my job for me.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
12 February 2009
19:1715288it appears that all multi coloured ken can do nowadays is to have a swipe at one of his political parties.
with the track record that he has built up i recent years, does anyone take what he says seriously?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
12 February 2009
19:1815289No Sid - I have not called you any of that and you cannot link to where I have.
I may have suggested that your posts do not do not do you justice or words to that effect, but that is all. Once again you introduce red herrings.
I really do not know where on earth you get some of this from, to interpret what I said in this thread as any kind of attack on you really stretches the imagination and what exactly am I trying to 'pin on you'? It does seem that perhaps you dont want people to be reminded of your close Labour Party associations and would prefer to give the impression of independence.
Sid Pollitt
12 February 2009
19:4615290BarryW you use of phrases such as 'I have certainly not seen anything intelligent or constructive from you' to try to rubbish points of view, not just mine. I know you're not trying to pin things on me, but you are trying to suggest something about my connections. As I've said before keep it up I've got a thick skin, and dont forget, one of us is a respected former councillor.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
12 February 2009
20:1315293I note your backtracking, yet again, Sid. When accusing someone of something please make sure you have specific links and evidence to back it up and do not place words or intentions into the mouths of others or one day it can get you into a lot more trouble than some petty forum squabbling.
I have indeed said that I think you are capable of more intelligent and constructive input on the forum than we have seen from you in the past. You can take that comment in whatever way you like, I have no sub-text.
It is not for me or you, Sid, to say which one of us, both or either of us, some might refer to as a 'respected' former councillor. I openly admit that I had as little time for you as you had for me when we both served on DDC, but that is in the past. You do seem overly sensitive about your 'connections' and perhaps that indicates some insecurity for a reason that I dont know or care about.
I will make one thing here very clear, I do not hold someone's political views against them personally and there are many ex-Labour and LibDem Councillors and MPs who I hold in high regard. Some I do not. I clearly remember these new councillors that were elected, you among them, in 1991, shunning me simply because I was a Tory Councillor to the disgust of some longer serving Labour councillors. I could say more about that but will refrain.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
12 February 2009
20:1515294barryw,sid 3 words pot,kettle,black.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
12 February 2009
20:2615296will it ever end though??
sometimes it reminds me of my mum arguing with a neighbour over the backyard fence.
he say, she says, he says etc etc.
thankfully neither are in the council chamber now representing us.
13 February 2009
16:0315356I know, Howard: British party politics, at local and national levels, are such a divisive and obstructive bore, and have hugely contributed to the mess we're in at the moment.
Vince Cable for PM in a non-aligned national government!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
13 February 2009
20:2215396so you are a vince cable fan too steven?
there must be a groundswell undiscovered at the moment, he is the only politician in the last few years that leaves me hanging on every word.
such a pity he is with that useless bunch.
i thought paddy ashdown would have been very effective as a leader of the country, again his choice of party left it an impossibility.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
14 February 2009
10:2715428well let me say a few words';
1; on the issue of the article, since i left active politics, and just before i stopped
bythe local papers. Ia did try to highlight these issues when active but
didnt get to far with it so done what i could sdo by stopping buying the paper
others followed that route. Others even in my party believed in contributinhg
to the paper and that was there right, I found myself even in disagreement
with john G on this one. but i fought my corner as sometimes even i lose.
why dso i say all that? well if i wanted(and i wouldnt) gto take someone on
such as gwyn i woiuldnt use that paper.
On the article iv not read it but recently spoke to Tony who roughly told
me of his thoughts.
I have to say such a delicate issue i wouldnt want to plaster all over the
local media, but hey, everyone to there own.
On Gwyn, The labour party(which i understand Tony has not been a
member for many years)is a very broad party, and iv disagreed with
gwyn on issues, but i chose to deal with them internally.
Gwyn is not lazy, he works hard for the constituents maybe not always
in the way i like , but then i resp;rect many factions of people elected him
labour/ex tory / and others and he was elected on that ticket and will be again
We all get frustrated when politicians dont do what we want, i could write an
article on that every week, of all political parties thsat iv been let down by.
So all in all I feel it sells papers, i suppose, and iv hjad disagreements with
the labour party, but i find its esasier to take these concerns direct to him some
you win some you lose.
I know evren in the chamber when Tony was leader we didnt always agree
in fact i recall an issue i raised, he left the chamber so it happens at all levels.
so to me if like the forum articles indicate Gwyn is happy to open up the files he cant have to much to hide.
Blimey thats a lot longer article than i was going to do.
hopefully this will all die down and life will go on.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
14 February 2009
10:5415432Keith, I did not expect you to comment on what must be a difficult matter for you because of the family connection. I certainly would not expect automatic agreement between you and Tony just because you are brothers.
This though is not just a matter of a paper digging something up to sell papers. Tony, with his strong Labour background, feels so badly about being let down by GP that he decided to go to the newspapers.
If it was me (and I have said the same kind of thing in the past) it would not be newsworthy and 'he would woulnt he'.
I am not even saying that by GP's standards he didnt do all he thought he could. I believe that he simply lacks the tenacity and above all the sheer forensic ability that makes a good local MP. He is simply not good at his job. He is too willing to accept what officials have told him and move on and does not want to rock the boat. yes, I interpret that as lazy but it is also a simple lack of ability in someone who is out of his depth.
Brian, no it is not a matter of those three words. Unsupportable accusations are made agaisnt me while I make supportable points in respect of GP that have gone unchallanged.
Moving on though this does raise one interesting question on which I expected someone to challenge me...
I do not like the litigeous society and have said so on this forum. While I am thoroughly enjoying the sheer political embarrassment being caused GP, that totally accords with what I have said about him, should we not be asking whether it is right for an MP to be sued?
Does it not open the floodgates to politically motivated cases? (unlike this one)
Should such matters just be left to the electorate?
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
14 February 2009
14:2415461Barryw
I have no problem now its public anyway com,menting on an issue raised.
Tony decides whatever route h chooses, even though we may disagree on that route.
For once Baz we can agree about the use of sueing it should as you say be down to the electorate.
Sadly we are in a compensation encouraged culture worst thing that ever happened
end result everyone or nearly everyone loses out or is to frightened to do anything
sad state of affairs./
I have no idea on the abilities of charlie boy, seems a n ice chap, b ut i do know our Gwyn fights well above his station.
As iv said Gwyn and i have differing views but thats no bad thing, of course Baz
you will b e the right wing conservative and thats your right, as mine is to follow the laboutr party, we wont ever agree, im so pleased that pAULB removed this
item away from the main postings, or so many more people will be switched off politics.
