Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
9 February 2010
14:5940101Coiln.
Thank you so much for your support on this matter.
I Hope to see alot more post,s about this one.
Our whole way of life is being taken away from us,
First it was our local pubs, now we are to say goodbye to our parish,s.I have a meeting going on at this time so will get back on this one. THANK YOU Vic Matcham
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
9 February 2010
16:2440104I got the Whitfield newsletter through the door today Vic, and didn`t make very good reading. I have to sometimes pretend that things in life aren`t real as I get wound up with a passion of hate, as maybe observed in my student loan fiasco. It`s why I leave politics to politicians, and try and keep out of religious matter`s though it can be interesting to discuss with the right people. I don`t believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden, but maybe a few angel`s flying about round the forum.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
9 February 2010
17:2640110I think the harsh reality is, Dover grows or dies. Growth should be good for everyone here but that does mean a sacrifice. Whitfield hasn't really been a village since I've lived close by for the last 24 years, so let's not jump on a "save our village by VM bandwagon".
The building of so many houses over a long period of time will bring welcome relief to those who will be seeking a home in the future and this development means there is more likelihood that our kids can stay and bring up their own families in Dover. That must be a good thing.
For some strange reason the business dynamic hinges on a local workforce being available, so, we need the homes first and the jobs will surely follow.
If the medicine tastes bad, the cure is usually good.
9 February 2010
18:1940114Sid, I fear that we are about to disagree again.
'more likelihood that our kids can stay and bring up their families in Dover'
I was raised in the West Country in a town not dissimilar to Dover in terms of population as one of four siblings.
All of us, benefiting from both Grammar School and University education have 'done well', all having been able to retire to a very comfortable lifestyle long before 'normal' retirement age.
I visited a school re-union a year ago and was somewhat saddened by the parochialism and general naivety of many of my peers from school who had never left the district.
They had all done well. Solicitors, estate agents, teachers, stalwarts of the local community they were leading lights in the community being magistrates, local councillors, rotarians and masons. I had a really boring evening.
I am glad that my non of my four children have chosen to remain in the district where they have been brought up, and would actually have been rather saddened had they had such limited aspirations that they had chosen so to do.
9 February 2010
18:3340115The Realm of Whitfield is about to be sullied. The whole plot sucks a biggie and as Colin says is all about money. How DARE the councillors have moved their business to Whitfield when they represent Dover, who so badly needs their support and deserves better. How DARE they support a building scheme that will bleed Dover dry and simply line the pockets of developers and the people who support their plans. However grown up we are about development and societel changes, this is simple: make bucks, dump on Dover.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
9 February 2010
18:3440116By the same token, Sid, the notion of not creating a 'Save Our Village' bandwagon should not mean 'By all means, bulldoze our fields'. Whitfield, as you say, is no more a village than I am Twiggy, but that doesn't give the developers carte blanche to turn it into something akin to Crawley or Harlow. If anyone knows these two towns, you'll appreciate why the thought of something similar on my own doorstep fills me with horror.
I don't see that the growth of Whitfield will be mirrored by regenerating Dover. As I understand it, the plans are for shops to be built at Whitfield and for brownfield sites in Dover Town Centre to be recycled into yet more housing. Paul Watkins has said to me (almost word for word) that it is envisaged that the current town centre will 'move' to a location more towards the seafront, and I presume this to mean that it will be centred around the redeveloped Wellington Dock area. (Paul W - if my understanding of this is wrong, please say so. I'd like to be sure of the facts myself!)
The way I see it is that a new town development in Whitfield will actually mean the loss of identity of Whitfield and Dover as individual places in their own right, similar to Walmer and Deal if you will. Further, I don't actually believe the thinking behind this Grand Plan is clear - where are all the jobs for so many people going to come from? So many people cannot all commute to London despite the (welcome) arrival of the Javelin trains, they're crowded as it is; Dover is not an easy place to find work as it is; any commuter to Canterbury will tell you that the infrastructure is at capacity already, with the Old Dover Road, New Dover Road and Wincheap all jammed from the early hours; Ashford, the great white hope for employment for years, is waning since the flagship Station development was suddenly jettisoned in favour of Ebbsfleet; Thanet is an unemployment blackspot and East Kent in general is a poor place to be looking for work.
I take on board your comment about the local business dynamic needing a local workforce being there, but I remain completely unconvinced that 'the jobs will surely follow' - business demographics constantly show that Dover is an area that businesses will not come to because the catchment is half of other places such as Canterbury and Ashford because of the Channel. And with the major employers in the town like the DHB and P&O employing a fraction of the numbers they once did, the employment prospects within the town look little better than they did 20 years ago.
I believe that people will buy houses where there is work, and East Kent is pretty low down on the list, sad to say.
True friends stab you in the front.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
9 February 2010
18:4040120I know Whitfield isn`t a village in the true sense of the word Sid, but what would you prefer? An expanded Dover with more jobs and outsiders moving into the area in droves in a concrete jungle of industrial units, housing estate`s, new roads, at the expense of green countryside, gone forever? Nothing my children would want to come back to this area for, they like the great outdoors.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
9 February 2010
20:4940132Andy I agree with you (except the bit about the trains - as a daily commuter they are not packed yet).
Whilst we need to see the town grow, this absolutely needs to be coupled with infrastructure growth/improvements, which should include dualing of the A2, town centre street scene improvements, zoning of edge of town brownfield and in fill sites for business/industrial use, school improvements, expansion of the college, a town centre poly-clinic, widening & lowering of the road at the bridge over Coombe Valley Road to improve access to the industrial estate, a town centred leisure centre etc. Coupled with all of this the town centre needs to encourage a vibrant and varied shopping/leisure experience with an eclectic mix of High Street names and independents, coffee shops, cafes, restaurants etc. which implicitly demands the use of secondary locations such as London Road (think of Union Street in Maidstone as an example of what I am talking about).
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
9 February 2010
21:3640142Ross, sounds like a good plan,
Bob, my two sprogs have escaped to the Far East and wouldn't dream of coming back here. However, there are those who aren't so fortunate as our 6, so, additional housing stock will be welcome.
Personally I love the area and the folks in it and would hate to move away. However, my 'uvver arf' longs for the day when I will take away to somewhere better, almost anywhere else in fact. As the saying goes, "beauty is in the eye of the beerholder". hic!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
9 February 2010
23:1640153i am fascinated by the bit from ross about the polyclinic.
is he accepting that a hospital will not come here, a polyclinic is the only option or something else?
my own view is that a state of the art polylinic in the town centre would be very acceptable.
our local mouthpieces seem set on arguing forever on the location, i suspect that the people that hold the purse strings will soon take the big money somewhere else.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
9 February 2010
23:2440155Howard, I think one has to be realistic about what is achievable given the state of the NHS and the countries finances etc. Whilst aspirationally one would want a decent hospital in the heart of Dover, realistically this will not happen given the proximity of Canterbury & Ashford; therefore we should accept that the best we will get is a poly-clinic. Hopefully this will include provision for minor day surgery, a minor injuries clinic, a maternity unit, provision for cancer patients to get chemo, and regular out-patients clinics such as podiatry, physiotherapy etc. If it had the facility to act as a triage centre if there was a major incident in the docks that would be a bonus.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
9 February 2010
23:3340158that is what i have always hoped for ross.
my own view is that the likelihood of getting a full blown general hospital was always remote, the emergency services always said that they had an action plan based around margate, ashford and canterbury in an emergency.
you mention the state of the countries finances, but also we have to take into account the population of dover district and its catchment area.
my personal choice has always been the maison dieu site, with the facilities that you mention.
9 February 2010
23:3840161I'm with Ross on this one.
Having been visited at Ashford Hospital and having visited patients at Margate, I am aware that they are a nuisance to get to, but this is outweighed by the fact that as large hospitals I was assured they could cope with almost anything medical that could be thrown at them.
On the other hand my daughter was stuck in St George's Tooting last year when her appendix played up. I was not impressed. It did however make me thankful of the services we have locally.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
10 February 2010
02:3740163Anyway, back to Whitfield. Who are all these new homes planned for? Certainly not because Dover is struggling for houses?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
10 February 2010
07:4040168Colin - this planning gives room for Dover to expand over the next 3 decades. This is not to fulfill any immediate shortfall in homes but for future demand. If no demand develops then the houses wont get developed. They are not to be built overnight or even within a few years, it is planning only.
It sends out an important signal that Dover is open to business. If somone is considering relocating a firm here or opening a new business here this is important to them. The jobs first/homes first argument simply is not an issue.
10 February 2010
09:0840175Of course, local councils are notoriously good at forward planning and interpreting stats and trends..............
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
10 February 2010
09:3340177No Bern, they are hopeless at it as you know. This is not about that, it is about a planning framework that allows for expansion and growth in this area, sending out the right message to potential investors for the next 30 years who might bring jobs.
If you have an area that has not allowed for growth within its planning framework then you are less likely to get businesses relocate. There are other factors that need to be considered of course, the education and training of the local workforce, for instance and we certainly need improvements there.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
10 February 2010
12:5540182Barry
How can the "jobs first/homes first" thing not be an issue? I accept that you're all for this development from a business perspective, but to simply deny it as an issue is burying ones head in the sand. Of course it's an issue, perhaps the most pertinent issue surrounding the debate: without realistic employment opportunities, who's going to buy a house in the area? Without a realistic sales forecast, what developer is going to build massive numbers of new houses?
There are better ways to signal that Dover is open for business than to build a new town - like, for example, getting some businesses here that would offer jobs in the numbers that warrant such a huge development and destroying our beautiful countryside. I agree it's a chicken & egg situation, but it most definitely is an issue.
True friends stab you in the front.
10 February 2010
13:0540184Let's not forget the high speed train now puts Dover in commuter distacne of London. I've been in this situation before and was surprised by just how many folks wanted to get away from the smoke, and almost anywhere wihin a one hour commute was on thier house buying horizon.
I have been back to see that place since and it is now a thriving community where before it was just "sleepy hollow".
The locals are delighted for a number of reasons, the town is thriving, there is employment where there was very little, there is more affluence locally.
Maybe that doesn't work for everyone, but surely that dpends on what we want for Dover; dead town or living town?
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
10 February 2010
13:0840185Sid, the answer is clearly 'living town'. My concern is that building a new town at Whitfield will kill Dover off, not regenerate it.
True friends stab you in the front.