Terry Nunn
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,305
19 October 2010
07:3775531I write this in advance of the defence cuts being announced, although of course they have been widely leaked.
Let me posit a basic question. Why do we have a defence industry, an army, a navy and an air force at all? Why do we need to spend billions of pounds that could go elsewhere? Some other counties, such as Switzerland get along very well thank you and maintain their independence without being overrun by their neighbours, why shouldn't we? Are we to be forever the USA's Airstrip One? Let's face it, the Yanks have had nothing but unmitigated disasters in the past few decades, did they never learn rom Vietnam? I remember seeing a documentary during that war that showed Americans being trained. A general stated that his mission was to kill as many "gooks" as possible.
Okay, so you say that the first thing that would happen would be that hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people would be out of jobs. Cobblers. We have an NHS system that is strapped for cash and dying on it's feet. Our road and railway systems are creaking. The list of cash availability and new job prospects is endless.
We are no longer a world power. Why should we get involved in troubles that are not of our making? I know he was a fictional character but Conan Doyle's Dr Watson was injured in the "second" Afghan war, we seem to have been there ever since.
I suppose all this makes me a pacifist, well I suppose it does but I'll beat the crap out of anyone who tries to invade my territory.
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,835
19 October 2010
07:5575533I agree with the majority of your comments especially your last one. I am fed up with being one of the world's policemen just because the USA want a punch up.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
19 October 2010
08:0175535Simple - It is a dangerous world out there. If the good guys disarm then it will be open season for any future, or current, Hitler. You just need to look only at the current threats about which there is so much written in the papers today.
In fact the problem may not even be 'a future Hitler', it may be as simple as a fight for food and water supplies.
We should really be spending more on Defence, not less. It is the most important job of government.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
19 October 2010
08:0675536barryw,i agree with terry and jan on this issue,the world as you say is only dangerous as you make it.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
19 October 2010
08:0875537I have to admit the sound of all these military cuts as mentioned on faithful radio this morning are alarming. Mr Hague continues to insist that we will still be a world military power but its hard to see how. We will for example have 2 aircraft carriers built (already contracted for) but will have no planes for them for more than 10 years. Its bizarre. The Royal Navy are particularly being clobbered as I understand it.
The USA are worried about our committment to NATO or indeed wondering if we still have the ability to be a NATO player.
A word about the Americans though...they really do do the 'world police' role for us all in so many ways. Its almost a new role, this role of world police, but the concept is being embraced by our own government who recognise that the challenges we face now are different. But I dont think we could ever relax enough to follow the Swiss role!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
19 October 2010
08:1475540No Brian - it is as dangerous as our enemies make it.... now let me see:
Threats from: North Korea and Iran, Somali Pirates, Drug Traffickers
Argentina and their coveting of The Falklands
Spain and their coveting of Gibraltar
Honduras and the coveting of Belize
Renewed threat from Irish terrorists
Continuing threat from Muslim extremists
Assorted nutters at home and abroad.......
None of these will go away if we disarm.
That is without a mention of Afghanistan.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
19 October 2010
08:1575541ooooh i like swiss roles.getting back to the subject a low key inteligece led force would be more usefull.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
19 October 2010
08:1775542We have that now but we have asymetric threats and need to have the ability to deal with a range of possibilities.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
19 October 2010
08:2475543barryw,you make a good point there,but look at it on the flip side for a moment,apart from blanket bombing of the countrys you could give northen ireland back to to sourtern ireland,then once done withdraw from countries you mention.as for the somali priates its not just a british problem its global,so a golbal force goes in and sorts the buggers out once and all.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
19 October 2010
08:3575544Brian - you forget and ignore the rights and wishes of the Northern Irish, the Falkland Islanders, The Gibraltarians, etc etc... These are real people and under the UN Charter have a right to self-determination. I am not in favour of throwing such people to the dogs.
As for the rest it seems you are in favour of Britain not fulfilling any international responsibilities and letting others do it.
And then we would still be a target for the Muslim terrorists, have a vulnerable food supply, be weak and able to be blackmailed by any bloodthirsty dictator.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
19 October 2010
08:4075545in your opinion barry.those people will have a choise of staying where they live or moving to this country.as for dictator who would this be i wonder,and it seems that you are running scard.
19 October 2010
08:4375546Open your eyes, people! Don't forget the huge freedoms our men and women died for in the last 2 world wars and the serious conflicts since then - they fought and died so that we could have what we have now - freedom. There are lots of things we all disagree on, but we are free to disagree about them, and that's the point. If we reduce our defence we lose the opportunity to retain our freedoms.
We have the news today that the Ark Royal is going. I hope to goodness that this government remembers it isn't only money, it's backbone and morale as well.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
19 October 2010
08:4575547Well said Bern.
Brian - just facing up to the real world and not some pathetic, dangerous pacifist dreamworld.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
19 October 2010
08:5375548barryw,i dont class myself as a pacifist,just a realist.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
19 October 2010
09:4375552set the cat amongst the pigeons there terry, 14 replies in just over an hour.
Terry Nunn- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,305
19 October 2010
10:4275559Oh I do like a good stir in the morning Howard!
Barry. I see no reason why we shouldn't keep a small "police" force but what is the point of all the costly hardware?
Your posting #6 lists these:-
"Threats from: North Korea and Iran, Somali Pirates, Drug Traffickers
Argentina and their coveting of The Falklands
Spain and their coveting of Gibraltar
Honduras and the coveting of Belize
Renewed threat from Irish terrorists
Continuing threat from Muslim extremists
Assorted nutters at home and abroad......."
Apart from the first two the huge defence logistics we have now are no good. You could of course solve the Irish "problem" by the deft use of a few nuclear missiles! Aircraft carriers and the like are no good against the Muslims or any other extremist minority.
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
19 October 2010
10:5075561Heyup - don't nuke me Terry!! Not all of us paddies are trouble! Oh, wait, it turns out that we are. My mistake!!!!
Terry - you don't post often but you make every post count! Love it - keep posting!
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
19 October 2010
13:1575578well lets get serious,lets nuke all the trublesome countrys execpt ireland where the north is reunited with the south and peace shall rain for ever.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
19 October 2010
13:2075581Terry - on the contrary. Muslim fanatics do not work in a vacuum as is showed by Afghanistan where the 9/11 and 7/7 bombers were trained.
Aircraft carriers provide a flexible response to dealing with a wide variety of problems anywhere in the world including against failed and renegade states that harbour and train terrorists.
The fact is we do not know what new threats will arise and in future we need capable forces that can intevene as and where necessary. If you lose or give up capability then it is difficult or impossible to get it back again.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
19 October 2010
13:2475582barryw,if there is no aircraft on the carrier or no ground troops to do clear up ops then we would be less than capable of doing the job in hand.
