Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
20 August 2010
18:2966349#21
Barry it is not me that is wrong but your plane,we are talking very high tech as you put it,so please get it right and that can not be done with a outdated plane.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
20 August 2010
21:2266389#22
The F/A18 is not outdated Vic. It is the main combat aircraft for the US Navy and will remain an effective combat aircraft for the next 25 years.
Can you not understand that this country is broke.
In these circumstances just to have the carriers built at all would be an achievement in itself and the price for that might be a more cost effective aircraft. One that is nevertheless a match for anything else in the skies rivalled only by the F22 and the Typhoon.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
20 August 2010
21:3666393#23
if we were broke barry we would not be buying anything.
the truth is that we have a deficit and are taking austerity measures like every other industrialised economy.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
20 August 2010
21:4666397#24
It really is like a broken record.
Barry thanks for the update - very interesting; as you say the F18 is a very good, robust, modern jet aircraft with a good current service record and a long shelf life; oh and we get to pick them up at a sensible cost now rather than silly money if they ever get built like the F35.
As that damn irritating meercat would say "SIMPLES"
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
20 August 2010
22:4266409#25
what is the broken record ross?
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
21 August 2010
00:3366422#26
Sorry Vic is
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
21 August 2010
07:4566427#27
Mr Miller I find again the way you are talking to me some what unpolite please disgree with me thats OK but please keep it polite,I try always to do it myself and after years of doing just that it comes very easy.Thank you
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
21 August 2010
09:4666446#28
I thought I would provide a bit more information on this subject:
The development of the electromagnetic catapults for the carriers is an interesting one. The big American carriers still use the old steam catapults (a British invention, post-war) so this system is way ahead of them. Currently there are no full scale working electromagnetic catapult systems in operation, it is in theory and model form only. If successful then that would make the British carriers the most advanced in the world, until the Americans install them that is. They have advantages, in theory, of greater reliability and efficiency compared to the steam versions.
On the conventional v VSTOL debate. VSTOL offers advantages in aircraft operations and an efficient use of deck space but against that it severely limits the types of aircraft that can be operated. Conventional carriers, equipped with catapults have the advantage of being able to operate a range of aircraft enabling a more versatile and balanced air group.
The VSTOL carrier can, once the Harrier has been de-commissioned, operate only the F35B, the Osprey tilt-rotor or helicopters. That means the vital airborne radar carriers need will have to be placed inside helicopters or the Osprey, rather than using much more capable aircraft with better operational ceilings and range. Also the only air to air refuelling option available would be F35B to F35B reducing combat/strike power and much less efficient than dedicated in-air refuelling aircraft.
As far as the F35 development is concerned there are three types of F35 being developed.
The F35A is for the US and other air forces. This version has the greatest payload, range and speed of all three versions.
The F35C is the carrier version. The version has to be equipped to operate from the bucking decks of aircraft carriers and so has to have arrester hooks fitted and a strengthened undercarraige. It is the additional weight that reduced the speed, range and payload. (I just realised I mixed up the C and B designations in a previous post...)
The F35B is the VSTOL version. This is the only one of the three that is capable of short take-off and vertical landing. It has a very different system to that employed by the Harrier using a large central fan to provide the lift along with vectoring rear exhaust nozzles. The space and weight (1,000 kilos extra) of the fan and associated VSTOl kit reduces further the payload, speed and range. There are also reliability problems due to the complexities of the fan. VSTOL apart this is the least capable of the three types and is the version currently on order for the RAF and Royal Navy. It is also the most expensive, costing $25m more per airframe.
About nine friendly countries are involved in the F35 development including Italy, Turkey and Canada along with the UK and the USA.
Despite my view that the F/A18 SuperHornet offers better value for the RAF/RN I suspect now that the F35C is what will eventually be purchased by the UK instead of the F35B or F/A18. It will certainly be a better all rounder than the F35B.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
21 August 2010
09:5066447#29
Here is a picture of the lift fan on a F35B.
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
21 August 2010
10:1266448#30
Wow - fascinating stuff there Barry. I don't pretend to understand all the technical stuff but I do know that the likes of Barry, Sid and Ross are far more knowledgable about these things than Vic.
To be honest here I have to agree with Ross about broken records. Why is it that Vic has to pretend to know everything about everything and has to insult those who do know better!!!
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
21 August 2010
11:2666471#31
First I never never insult anyone on this forum or off it,and please tell me what makes you think I am always wrong.
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
21 August 2010
21:4766577#32
Quite an informative piece on the F35's, thanks a lot Barry
, I must admit that I was swept away in awe by the Typhoon at Farnborough though my hearing still isn't the same (who care's, big boys toys rule OK
)
