Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
We must avoid at all costs another tragic day like this one
Lessons must be learnt
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Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,987
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
hope the subject gets back on track
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,987
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
It is such a shame this happens
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Weird Granny Slater
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,008
Allegedly.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,987
Weird Granny Slater wrote:Allegedly.
17 CONVICTIONS. No allegedly to it.
Can't remember any other tragic incident resulting so much fraud.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,822
Captain Haddock wrote:17 CONVICTIONS. No allegedly to it.
Can't remember any other tragic incident resulting so much fraud.
At least the fraudsters have been caught, thank goodness.
It makes me wonder how many other occasions there have been when the investigation was not so thorough or there will be in the future, Manchester springs to mind but I sincerely hope I am wrong.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,987
Captain Haddock wrote:17 CONVICTIONS. No allegedly to it.
Can't remember any other tragic incident resulting so much fraud.
I do apologise. Only 16 convictions (so far) - this one is still on trial. More in the pipeline.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,987
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,865
Bob
I raise this issue as you appear to have a problem with this disaster?
over the years we have seen scams within a number of charities or abuses
or stolen charity bottles etc
none of it is good for the charity at the time
or in this case Grenfell
and if found guilty these geezers should be dealt with
but we should go back to the actual disaster where a lot of peoples lives have been changed forever
(those that survived)
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Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,822
Following on from Keith's post. So many living near are now dealing with the toxic fallout from the tower, I remember one lady showing the camera black dust she was finding in her home never mind all the debris still around the building.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-47730638-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,987
Keith Sansum1 wrote:
I raise this issue as you appear to have a problem with this disaster?
Yes I do. I can think of no other disaster which has been so politicised by the left from the downright lies told at the time in order to stir up tensions by that the authorities were lying about the number of victims
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/27/david-lammy-suggests-grenfell-tower-death-toll-may-have-covered/ to the crap in the press that the cladding was 'only put on to make the council block less unsightly' and that the present enquiry 'is just going to be a cover up' and that 'somebody should prosecuted and sent to jail over this'. (or in Keef Speak - 'and if found guilty these geezers should be dealt with')
Personally I thought it was farcical to give amnesties to people who were both illegal immigrants AND living in illegally sub-let council accommodation.
As with Jean Charles de Menezes. Sorry he got shot. Bit of a mistake. Wouldn't have happened if he wasn't in the country illegally in the first place.
Shit happens. People end up dead. It happens every day all over the world. It's invariably a cock up rather than a conspiracy. Get over it.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
Yes Bob you are right most of the time it is a cock up rather than intentional or even less likely a conspiracy, none of which lessens the human tragedy that results and the ongoing impact on peoples lives.
I do agree that certain elements within society are too quick to suspend cognitive faculties and jump on the latest social media band wagon or worse still start that band wagon rolling. Perhaps if everyone took a little time to think things through we would see less rubbish spouted across both formal and social media.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Not sure how or why you tie in the Menezes incident with Grenfell Tower Bob. Without bothering to Google it I remember witnesses speaking in the aftermath about this chap of "middle eastern appearance" sweating profusely and wearing an overcoat in hot weather. Police challenged him and he scarpered and continued when challenged again. All of the witnesses were greatly relieved and didn't think for a minute he was just an illegal immigrant due to what else was happening at the time.
Grenfell was a disaster caused by neglect amongst other things to be decided and whether the residents were illegal immigrants or UK citizens seems irrelevant.
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,008
Without wishing to go off-topic, and I do so only because his case was deployed earlier in the thread as a fundamental support of the sophisticated 'shit happens' defence of man-made disasters, Menezes was in the UK lawfully at the time of his execution.
'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,987
1) Friends of Mr de Menezes, 27, said he had been in Britain for three years working as an electrician and was due to start a new job yesterday in east London.
Tourists from Brazil do not require a visa but are only allowed to stay six months. If Mr de Menezes was in the country on a student visa, he should have been studying for at least 15 hours a week and would not have been entitled to work for more than 20 hours per week during term time.
There is no evidence that he was enrolled at a college and, even if he was, the maximum period a student on courses below degree level can stay in this country is two years.
The Telegraph
2) In a carefully worded statement, the Home Office appeared to suggest that Jean Charles de Menezes had a forged stamp in his Brazilian passport giving him permission for "indefinite leave to remain" in Britain. His student visa ran out on June 30 2003.
"We have seen a copy of Mr De Menezes' passport containing a stamp apparently giving him indefinite leave to remain in the UK. On investigation, this stamp was not one that was in use by the immigration and nationality directorate on the date given," a spokeswoman said.
The Guardian
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Weird Granny Slater- Location: Dover
- Registered: 7 Jun 2017
- Posts: 3,008
Indeed. But,
'The court heard how as a person entering Britain from Ireland, he would have had an automatic three-month leave to remain which at the earliest would have run out on 23 July, the day after he was killed.'
BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7048756.stm'Pass the cow dung, my dropsy's killing me' - Heraclitus
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,987
Unless (as actually happened) the forged stamp showing ILR was the reason the Irish had granted him entry in Ireland which he had entered by deception and through which he took a circuitous route to the UK, correctly thinking that the Irish Border officers would be less familiar with the stamp.
Bottom line is Immigration Enforcement (who I was working for at ISIS House in the early eighties - my 'patch' was East Ham and Forest Gate) would have happily lifted him and removed him.
He was duff as old boots.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson