howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
In many wards there are councillors of different parties or none elected and my question is should those councillors work together for the good of the ward?
I say a resounding yes as party politics has no bearing at Town or Parish level and precious little at District level.
Jan Higgins likes this
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,875
Agreed Howard, definitely far to many councillors and party politics should never be a factor in doing what is right for the area.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Unfortunately that is not the majority view in my ward Jan, suspected it for a time but it all came to a head last weekend. Some want to work as a party clique, one or two want a joint approach and the rest don't seem interested, just happy to have the word councillor in front of their name.
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
Whilst I agree with the sentiment, Mr McSweeney1, isn't it true that some parties, notably the Tories, try to sew up Parish/Town, District and KCC councillor spots to force through unpalatable decisions (such as building plan)?
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,875
The Bishop wrote:Whilst I agree with the sentiment, Mr McSweeney1, isn't it true that some parties, notably the Tories, try to sew up Parish/Town, District and KCC councillor spots to force through unpalatable decisions (such as building plan)?
All parties do the same depending on their various party agendas, so they are all as bad as each other. Unfortunately always party before the electorate's needs always has been and I suspect always will be.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
As far as I am aware planning/building control is solely the remit of District Council your holiness, the views of Town and Parish are totally ignored.
When Dover first formed a Town Council only Labour put up candidates and spent meetings slapping each other on the back, then came along a few Independents followed finally by the Tories who went back on their promise never to stand and joined in the free for all.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
All got rather out of hand locally due to Keith sending a disgruntled text to Sir Peter Wallace asking why he was being kept out of the loop on ward issues. Peter decided to share it on his Facebook page and sent a copy to the Town Clerk complaining that he felt threatened. Things went rapidly downhill straight away with Peter's disciples turning on Keith and anyone that defended him.
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
#6 You are correct, Mr McSweeney1; however, when the local "democratically" elected council doesn't stand up for the interest of their wardites, because, as Jan Higgins says in #5, they obey an imposed whip, we see exactly why we have problems getting our voice heard.
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,875
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:All got rather out of hand locally due to Keith sending a disgruntled text to Sir Peter Wallace asking why he was being kept out of the loop on ward issues. Peter decided to share it on his Facebook page and sent a copy to the Town Clerk complaining that he felt threatened. Things went rapidly downhill straight away with Peter's disciples turning on Keith and anyone that defended him.
I would have thought Peter Wallace to be above that petty and rather childish behaviour, just shows how wrong you can be.
This also shows how important it is to be in a group's loop which in local politics is completely wrong and definitely
not in the electorate's interest.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
That is what I thought Jan, By Saturday evening Peter was egging on a well known local troublemaker who accused our local Community Association of mismanagement and hinted at corruption. No surprise that Keith is the Chairperson and the books are passed by auditors year on year.
Today Mercury journalist Sam Lennon who happens to be treasurer got wind of the allegations and went ballistic, needless to say Peter removed Sam's post and the offensive ones that have been there for over three days.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,875
Just visited Councillor Wallace's Facebook page, I would have thought he would use it to keep people informed what he is up to. Sweet f.a. for 2 months then has a go at Keith, a text that I am sure most sensible people would ignore, struck me as rather childish to make an issue of it.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 2415- Registered: 12 Dec 2017
- Posts: 4
Hi Howard,
I’d always thank you for posting local issues here, engaging with people and keeping Dover issues alive but I don’t think you’ve been given the full and correct information.
Below is Keith’s original text message so you and others can read it for themselves.
We have not had a disagreement about the ward or working together. I would never do that. This ward has had 2 Conservative, 1 UKIP and 3 other Labour councillors since 2015. You will not be able to find any one of them will say I haven’t worked with them. For example the 2 benches in Elms Vale Rec were jointly paid for by the 2 Lab/2 Tory Councillors. I have never turned down an offer to work/support any other councillor. I also give credit where it is due. Roger Walkden had new bins installed in the ward in 2015 and whenever a resident around that area points out issues about litter I do say “Roger got new bins put in here...” etc. I’m not a churlish person.
Keith sent me the text message after the council meeting last week. In the meeting Keith put forward a motion to freeze council tax and I said that I would support Keith’s motion if he could show me his plan to keep council tax frozen. As he didn’t have one I said I couldn’t vote for it. That is where the dispute arose.
I have supported Keith’s motions previously. I think the most recent was his idea to cancel paying a private PR firm. A good idea of Keith’s that I will continue to support.
After the meeting Keith and I met in the doorway as we were leaving. We shook hands and he said that we should leave behind the dispute in the chamber. It was over as far as we were concerned. I was happy with that. Differences come up but you get over them.
It was later that night that I received his text message that said I had rushed off, when I hadn’t. (We’d spoken and shaken hands.) He then said that he was willing to start using personal attacks on me. I think 1) personal attacks are below the belt, particularly in local politics. 2) to send someone a text message like that was a direct attempt to intimidate me/bully me.
I think that neither is acceptable from an adult, particularly not from someone elected to a council. If it was sent to someone vulnerable, I don’t think I could stand for it, so I called it out.
I mean no harm at all to Keith. He is a councillor with decades of experience and I have always been willing to support him, learn from him and work with him. I have not asked anyone to write on my Facebook page. Hopefully this is something that will be forgotten in a few weeks. I did offer to shake Keith’s hand on Saturday when he came to an event organised by John Heron, hoping it would be the start of putting this behind us, but he wouldn’t shake my hand. I didn’t bring his text message up to be vindictive. I felt it was bullying and I don’t feel it can be endorsed or allowed to happen.
PS Jan, my Facebook is open to friends only so any posts you see will look old but I post a few times a day. You’ll get a better view by looking at my twitter account. I regularly tweet about ward issues and the work I’m doing.
Keith’s text:
“hi as you rushed off i will now after meeting with you and jobn h i did think we was to work together to ihhts outburst showed this to be impossible and so i will go bk to wprking with those who dupport a better dover and im afraid our meeting onviously meant nothing on prrsonal atacks so be ready for returns.”
Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,257
To be honest the only concern I would have from that text would be for the individuals own well being!
Jan Higgins likes this
Arte et Marte
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,875
I know Peter feels he has to justify himself on here but still think it was childish to make such an issue of this, after all we know how Keith can be at times.
I don't do twitter, life is to short to waste on that as well.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I'm not on Twitter either as I spend too much time on line as it is. Facebook is good in lots of ways but there are so many similar sounding groups people post the same thing on all of them and everybody has to wade through stuff they have already read.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,920
This is my first opportunity to reply to accusations, as I have to work for a living.
Usually private text messages remain private, but in this case quite the opposite has taken place.
So let me run you through what actually happened.
On the night in question the subject of the DTC council tax rise was proposed by the Mayor, with sound reasons for the rise(although I didn't share that view) SueJones whom I understand is the Labour leader made a speech on why the labour group would reluctantly (her words) be supporting the 2% rise.
Within her speech she did say budgets they felt could be spent in a different and better way.
I actually supported the last part of labours aims, but felt with the way things are we couldn't justify a rise, and I felt if labour had an alternative view on the budgets it would be better to go for a 0% increase and then take on labours view of an alternative budget.
At this point Cllr Wallace asked me if I had an alternative budget, as labour had one(but no alternative budget was ever produced) now that was a clear move to intimidate, which was fine, but I did feel the observations by the Mayor/Cllr Jones and even the officers who gave a clear indication on affects of a 0% and 2% increase. but I didn't share.
Cllr Wallace I feel would have done better(with his group) to have produced this alternative costed budget, they didn't, yet as an individual Cllr I was supposed to?
I should remind Cllr Wallace I was also elected in Oct as a community representative, as he is of the opinion theres only labour/tory/ukip elected in the ward.
On leaving the meeting I said, I won't forget this evening, meaning his moves to undermine.
And so I sent a private text, what I didn't expect was what followed.
I got E Mails and texts from Lab/Tory/Indy cllrs asking if I had seen the E Mail Cllr Wallace had sent to a select number of cllrs, and A Burton.
Asking strangely for me to be investigated.
Obviously I had to tell them all I was unaware, then found I wasn't included in this E Mail.
So I did reply to all the select cllrs telling them it was in my opinion a private text and that I wouldn't comment further to cllrs as I felt this was a private matter, and unprofessional to do otherwise.
Nothing will stop me supporting locals in the ward and the wider community, and to this end I supported J Heron and other locals in the Town to which Cllr Wallace also attended.
It is correct to say he attempted a hand shake, but in all seriousness was I really going to shake the hand of someone who had just attempted to stitch me up with DTC.
I don't think so.
What was worse(and for legal reasons we have kept copies)what then appeared on Cllr Wallace's facebook page and stayed on there for 3 days even though Cllr had posted in these 3 days.
What followed was a number of libel comments which indicated the clarendon and westbury committee are corrupt and individual committee members.
Now of course there is no truth in any accusations, and the books are audited by qualified professional auditors at some cost to our organisation.
And it is a great shame when hard working volunteers are dragged through the mud that way, and I know the committee will not forgive those comments.
When elected last Oct I said I would work with all 3 parties on DTC and support what is best for Dover and in that short time have supported proposals from all 3 parties,
and encouraged individuals cllrs from all 3 parties to better themselves
I will continue to do so.
Hopefully this explains what was a private matter, that at no time would I have made public as since Oct I have been meeting cllrs from all 3 parties trying to find common ground, and had in the past 2weeks got a pact with Cllr Wallace where he felt I was to publicly critical of him, so I did say I would do what I could to reduce this, but with it comes partnership. but I would be criticalif that was required.
So you can understand my bafflement just 2 weeks later to find all this develop.
Could I finish by saying I have worked on a number of projects within the ward put forward by Cllr Wallace.and other cllrs.
All this leaves a sour taste, but politics is only a very small part of my life.
But I do thank all the cllrs from all 3 parties for the calls of support, it wasn't needed, but was welcome.
For me tomorrow is another day, and hopefully as Cllr Wallace has made this so public to a select few, that the replies above at least go some way to give an explanation.
This isn' t my usual way of replying but as it's been put on here, I do need to give my side, otherwise it looks very one sided
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Whatever one thinks of Keith and his views he has never hidden like so many of our Councillors that have a strict regime of not putting their head in a noose on social media or the press.
Unfortunately Peter has not apologised for encouraging the attack on local volunteers who are dumbstruck by what has gone on. All are retired people who organise a get together on Wednesday afternoon for a "cup of tea and a natter" and bingo on alternate Saturday evenings until some toerag half inched the bingo machine. None of them are interested in politics and fail to understand why they have been victimised.
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,070
Dunno how the retired Wednesday group feel but I'm beginning to lose the will to live over this saga.
I used to have to put up with this sort of rubbish from Yr8 kids in the playground.
It used to build up until one of them said 'Your Mum ................' which meant 'seconds away' and a flurry of totally ineffectual fisticuffs!
For Heaven's sake make it up children OR if one of you is about to say 'Your Mum' please tip us off to the venue so we can all make a circle around you calling 'fight, fight, fight'.
Jan Higgins likes this
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,875
I agree with you to a certain extent Captain.
I find this sillyness more interesting than the endless tit for tat posts involving politics which often remind me of mine is bigger than yours attitude that youngsters have.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,070
Jan Higgins wrote:I agree with you to a certain extent Captain.
I find this sillyness more interesting than the endless tit for tat posts involving politics which often remind me of mine is bigger than yours attitude that youngsters have.
Jan,
I agree with you absolutely, with the exception, of course, of my own case where it actually
is bigger. (Can provide photographic proof)
Jan Higgins likes this
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson