Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,920
Gareth Snell Labour wins the seat
Nuttal leader of UKIP loses
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Before the campaign I thought Nuttall was a good leader for UKIP but the farce over the false address and claims over Hillsborough showed him to be a Walter Mitty character. Doubtless we will see a new leader in the near future.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,875
UKIP seem to be unelectable except as local councillors, it is a sad state of affairs for any party when their top representatives can not win a seat at Westminster.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest 1849- Registered: 12 Sep 2016
- Posts: 440
UKIP are finished as a political force but their aim has been achieved, we are leaving the EU, without UKIP there wouldn't have been a referendum.
The terminal decline of Labour is a greater concern, we face becoming a one party state. Failing to hold Copeland is as bad as it gets.
If you read the opening post you'll see a perfect example of the yah boo politics that turns voters off so much. Tribalism is the ruination of politics.
John Buckley likes this
Guest 1849- Registered: 12 Sep 2016
- Posts: 440
Incidentally the turnout of 38% shows how interested the people of Stoke were, barely more than a third even bothered to vote.
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,072
The problem with UKIP is that it is not so much a political party as a pressure group which with Farrage as a charismatic leader momentarily grabbed the zeitgeist and indeed changed the national agenda resulting in Brexit.
It's a bit like the suffragettes. Once women got the vote the likes of the National Union of Women's Suffrage Societies and the Women's Social and Political Union no longer had a reason to exist.
Or the SDP which turning the Labour Party into the modernist Blairite iteration which was so successful electorally for so long was no longer 'needed'.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Guest 1849- Registered: 12 Sep 2016
- Posts: 440
I heard plenty of people saying UKIP needed to ditch Farage, how wrong they were. That said the leader is irrelevant now, the party serves no purpose.
That's a shame, the country needs a free thinking libertarian party as an alternative to the centrist nonsense we currently have before us.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,072
D Little wrote:I heard plenty of people saying UKIP needed to ditch Farage, how wrong they were. That said the leader is irrelevant now, the party serves no purpose.
I suspect if the German National Socialist Party had dumped Adolf once they had popular support they too would have petered out and we could have all avoided the unpleasantness from 39 to 45?
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Guest 1849- Registered: 12 Sep 2016
- Posts: 440
It seems Godwin's law is alive and well.
I'd like to see a party that is honest enough to say the NHS in its current form needs restructuring and part privatising.
That we pay far too much tax for too little return.
That foreign aid should be decimated.
That universities should be free but only for bright kids doing worthwhile degrees.
That parole should be scrapped.
That the House of Lords is reformed and the number of paid politicians halved.
Youngsters unemployed for 6 months should be enrolled in citizens service and fed and watered while learning to do useful things, not fire guns.
Immigration should be based on what we need not vice versa.
The BBC licence fee should be scrapped.
Probably more but that's a start.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,072
D Little wrote:It seems Godwin's law is alive and well. Hee Hee
I'd like to see a party that is honest enough to say the NHS in its current form needs restructuring and part privatising. Restructuring yes and embedded with social care. Privitisation? Have you seen the price of 'agency nurses'? Doh
That we pay far too much tax for too little return. Could be better BUT probably most efficient return on spending in any Western Democracy
That foreign aid should be decimated. Only one in ten?? Keep it for 'emergency relief' as and where necessary.
That universities should be free but only for bright kids doing worthwhile degrees. Nothing in life is 'free'. Someone pays. What's wrong with present student loans where those who benefit ONLY pay back once earning enough. (I just had a student loan 'written off' 'cos I'm now 65!)
That parole should be scrapped. Rubbish. Holland is actually closing down prisons while we are building them. We are locking up too many people for far too long. Let's get back to reform and rehabilitation rather than merely ineffective punishment.
That the House of Lords is reformed and the number of paid politicians halved. Yes and Yes
Youngsters unemployed for 6 months should be enrolled in citizens service and fed and watered while learning to do useful things, not fire guns. I find it strange that hundreds of thousands of Eastern Europeans are able to travel across Europe to find gainful employment when UK kids can't travel across the country. Picking vegetables in East Anglia at 04.30 in the morning should concentrate their minds on finding employment better suited to their 'talents'.
Immigration should be based on what we need not vice versa. Far too complicated to even start answering you. Immigration is not a tap we turn on and off. A start will be post-Brexit when EC nationals become as other 'aliens' (as opposed to 'commonwealth'). A biometric ID is, like it or not, part of the way forward
The BBC licence fee should be scrapped. Rubbish. It's an absolute bargain and part of our 'soft power' the World Service being respected as a source of un-biased reporting the world over. Can you really see the people getting bombed today in downtown Syria tuning their short wave sets to Magic FM to find out what is happening?
Probably more but that's a start.
Paul Watkins, Ross Miller and howard mcsweeney1 like this
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
If they have the resources to put up candidates in the North of England in 2020 UKIP would do well by creaming off some Labour support. The only problem is they could put more Tories in power without getting one of their own elected.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,072
howard mcsweeney1 wrote: The only problem is they could put more Tories in power.
Problem?
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,053
I might be willing to vote for a candidate who doesn't live in my constituency (I'd have to think about it, eg. how big is it and do I care if he/she lives 6" the other side of an imaginary line). However, any candidate attempting to become my MP needs to give up being an MEP first - it's too much like clinging onto a safety-net for my taste.
(Not my real name.)
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
The big storm coming is the young not being able to afforded accommodation and wages being held at the minimum for millions of workers.
Most of this is due to a labour market awash with imported cheap workers and parisite employment agencies
The politicians that have supported this and do not respond to this, will be swept away eventually.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
david l, I thought it was 52% of the nerds who yoted to leave and not ukip...
captain,there is a problem,a 1 party state like Russia.
kieth b,where would we get workers from to do the the jobs us brits wont or choose not to do..
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,920
It was a wake up call for UKIP sadly the alternative voice even its ex followers are now saying it's finished which is sad for politics as we are heading towards a one party state, something no one should want.
Jan, if you watch the local scene even on the cllrs front there has been resignation after resignation so even at that level they are falling apart (Thanet Cllr best example)
All the political parties should look at themselves and re engage all the year round, and not just at by election, or general election times.
Jan Higgins likes this
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,705
Let's not read too much into this. UKIP lost out in Stoke because Nuttal had made himself effectively unelectable, Labour lost out in Copeland because Sellafield workers and their families and friends dont believe Corbyn has changed his mind on nuclear fuel.
On the wider national stage, UKIP are struggling to find not only a credible leader (how they do that in the long shadow cast by Farage eludes me) but also policies that their own members will rally round and support. Funnily enough Labour have a similar problem, with a succession of ex-leaders and senior figures pontificating on a regular basis along with a revolving door approach to the shadow cabinet.
I am firmly of the view that Labour needs to start listening to its traditional core vote rather than the "intellectual" left and framing policies that genuinely address those issues ordinary people are concerned with. There is no need, a la Blair/Brown, to steal the emperors new clothes from the Tories; Labour needs to be different in its offer to the people. They also need to rethink what Social Democracy means in the 21st century, the mid 30's version that has been touted for too long here and across Europe no longer has any appeal.
Paul Watkins likes this
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
congrats ross
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
In reply to Keith's comments on Planet Thanet we have a great example of a seemingly failed institution.
http://iandriverthanet.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/breaking-ramsgate-labour-candidates.html?spref=twKeith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,920
Thanet seems to breed them lol
first the tories dressing up as Saudi's
the UKIP making promises on Manston which they knew wouldn't happen
Then the break up of now official lUKIP cllrs in thanet and now other UKIP who left party in thanet
To todays article reproduced by howard, its shameful if correct of Ramsgate labour
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
