Trump pulls out of the Paris agreement.

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Guest 745
- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
2 June 2017 08:19329440
#1 report
Trump pulls out of the Paris agreement.

Not surprising when you consider that china is building a new coal power plant every 18 days and will have to do nothing for the next 13 years.
And India get even a better open ended deal to keep pumping out pollution.

And the west will have to pay 100,billion a year to fund green policy’s in the third world.
This bill will grow every year without not much control on where the cash is going .

For the uk we get even more green crap upping our utility bills and crippling industry, and our jobs.
If you want to cut pollution stop trading with china and India, 2 dirty production country’s that sell us a lot,,and buy very little
Guest 1881
- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
2 June 2017 12:13329462
#2 report
Doesn't Trump do what it says on the tin? I seem to remember from my science lessons (science is rather inconvenient in many cases, I hasten to add) that a lot of polluting methane is emitted whenever and wherever a Trump manufacturers?
Jan Higgins likes this
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Guest 745
- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
2 June 2017 12:17329463
#3 report
indeed , but the Yanks will not be paying , but we will be
howard mcsweeney1
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
2 June 2017 15:15329481
#4 report
California rather typically is going it alone on a deal with China.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/california-china-climate-change-deal-donald-trump-paris-agreement-global-warming-us-states-a7768626.html
Guest 745
- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
2 June 2017 15:39329483
#5 report
California is broke.
i don't see them stumping up big wads of cash to support third world wind farms ??
Guest 1881
- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
2 June 2017 16:20329487
#6 report
Have you got it in for California, Mr Bibby, because it seems dangerously close to the word Caliphate?
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,892
2 June 2017 16:22329488
#7 report
The truth is that Trump is an uneducated idiot who has made a load of bucks by claiming 'bankruptcy' to stave off his creditors a few times and by employing cheap illegal immigrant labour to stack bricks on each other and then flog them.

Meanwhile 83 mayors (NOT 'California going it alone') are adopting the Paris agreement.

It's bad enough when these idiot climate change deniers can't understand the science!

https://www.curbed.com/2017/6/1/15726376/paris-accord-climate-change-mayors-trump
"Shall we go, you and I, while we can? Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds"
Guest 745
- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
2 June 2017 20:00329508
#8 report
Captain Haddock wrote:
The truth is that Trump is an uneducated idiot who has made a load of bucks by claiming 'bankruptcy' to stave off his creditors a few times and by employing cheap illegal immigrant labour to stack bricks on each other and then flog them.

Meanwhile 83 mayors (NOT 'California going it alone') are adopting the Paris agreement.

It's bad enough when these idiot climate change deniers can't understand the science!

https://www.curbed.com/2017/6/1/15726376/paris-accord-climate-change-mayors-trump

Solar panels don't work, and electric cars are crap.
The taxpayers have to subsidise the systems they are so bad.

the green industry is driven by lobbyists and special interest groups
Guest 1849 likes this
Reginald Barrington
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 17 Dec 2014
- Posts: 3,226
2 June 2017 20:03329509
#9 report
Keith Bibby wrote:
Solar panels don't work, and electric cars are crap.
The taxpayers have to subsidise the systems they are so bad.

the green industry is driven by lobbyists and special interest groups

I'll pass that on to my father who hasn't paid a leccy bill since 2001 he'll be removing those solar panels as soon as he stops laughing!
Jan Higgins likes this
Arte et Marte
Guest 745
- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
2 June 2017 23:42329515
#10 report
Reginald Barrington wrote:
I'll pass that on to my father who hasn't paid a leccy bill since 2001 he'll be removing those solar panels as soon as he stops laughing!

his neighbours are paying for his power ,thats haw subsidies work .

and panels decrease over 25 years ,by year 15 they will be down to half power .after 25 year they will need to be disposed of and the roof repaired,,, not that cheap.

i predict in the house selling market soon pepole will be demanding discounts to cover old panal removal .
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,892
3 June 2017 00:30329516
#11 report
Keith Bibby wrote:
his neighbours are paying for his power ,thats haw subsidies work .

and panels decrease over 25 years ,by year 15 they will be down to half power .after 25 year they will need to be disposed of and the roof repaired,,, not that cheap.

i predict in the house selling market soon pepole will be demanding discounts to cover old panal removal .

FWIW one of the largest subsidies is the cap on liabilities for nuclear accidents which the nuclear power industry has negotiated with governments!

Even with this cost taken away EDF has negotiated a guaranteed fixed price – a "strike price"– for electricity from Hinkley Point C of £92.50/MWh (in 2012 prices), which will be adjusted (linked to inflation) during the construction period and over the subsequent 35 years tariff period. (The current wholesale electricity price is around £38 per MWh).

Wind farm energy is now down to £55/MWh which is £20 cheaper per megawatt hour than coal or gas-fired plants taking into account cost of build.

Solar cell efficiency is growing year on year and prices coming down.

Once such as perovskite cells increase in efficiency, since they use elements which are plentiful (rather than rare earths) prices should plummet.

Most solar panels now typically come with 20 year warranties that guarantee that the panels will produce at least 80% of the rated power after 20 years of use. The general rule of thumb is that panels will degrade by about 1% each year. Nothing lasts forever. Get used to it.

As for electric cars being 'crap' having been driven in a Tesla I disagree. So do most motor manufacturers worldwide. http://www.economist.com/news/business/21717070-carmakers-face-short-term-pain-and-long-term-gain-electric-cars-are-set-arrive-far-more

Right now we export 1 - 1.5% of our GDP to pay for fuel for our vehicles. The main downside of using electric vehicles would appear to be finding a way to tax the renewable energy consumed to make up for the loss of revenue from petrol/diesel taxes.
"Shall we go, you and I, while we can? Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds"
Guest 1881
- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
3 June 2017 01:07329522
#12 report
Keith Bibby wrote:
Solar panels don't work, and electric cars are crap.
The taxpayers have to subsidise the systems they are so bad.

the green industry is driven by lobbyists and special interest groups

Substitute 'green' for 'banking' and you've made an extremely good point.
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Guest 1849
- Registered: 12 Sep 2016
- Posts: 440
3 June 2017 10:10329528
#13 report
Well done Trump
howard mcsweeney1
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
3 June 2017 11:21329531
#14 report
Nigel Lawson writing in the Telegraph.

Donald Trump’s decision to withdraw the United States from the Paris Agreement has dealt a hammer blow to an elite consensus which has built up around the issue of climate change. That consensus has placed cutting carbon dioxide emissions above people’s jobs and protecting the environment.

With US industry already enjoying a substantial competitive advantage over European firms, this decision will make European climate policies all the more unsustainable. If Britain is to keep up with the rest of the world, it is essential that the next government rethinks energy policy to prioritise competitiveness and affordability.

The 2017 Conservative manifesto has promised to do just that, and sets a target for Britain to have the lowest energy prices in Europe. This is a striking change of tone compared with previous manifestos, but this objective will only be achieved through extensive reforms to existing policies, alongside the political will to fight powerful vested interests.

The next government will first need to acknowledge what has gone wrong. Britain’s obsession with unilateral decarbonisation has taken precedence over relieving fuel poverty and keeping prices competitive. It is inconceivable how political parties can reconcile being on the side of working people while at the same time driving up their cost of living. The Climate Change Act is set to cost the UK economy approximately £320 billion by 2030 – equivalent to funding the NHS in England for three years.

Existing energy policies that claim to be “environmental” are nothing of the sort. Bjorn Lomborg, the head of the Copenhagen Consensus Centre, has estimated that even if every nation meets its pledges under the Paris climate change agreement, the total reduction in the planet’s temperature will only be 0.17C by 2100. With America’s exit, even this paltry figure may not be achieved.

By contrast, the bad environmental consequences of energy policies have been tangible and significant. Commitments to bioenergy are damaging biodiversity and have distorted international food markets. The rare earth metals used in wind turbines come from poorly regulated mines in China which leak toxic and radioactive waste into nearby lakes on an industrial scale, perfectly illustrating the vacuity of the “out of sight, out of mind” attitude of virtue-signalling “clean” energy advocates.

But the harmful consequences of low-carbon policies are harder to ignore when they are right on your doorstep, or even inside your home. Britain’s air pollution crisis is the result of misguided low-carbon policies that incentivised diesel cars. People have died because politicians couldn’t resist the desire to “save the planet”. Recent research also suggests that biomass power stations may not have lower CO2 emissions than coal and gas. What will it take for politicians to question the wisdom of spending hundreds of billions on failing policies instead of putting the needs of ordinary families first?
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,845
3 June 2017 11:49329532
#15 report
I don't have any great problem with debate over climate change.

But Lawson has always refused to name his sponsors or supporters or who may donate to any some have been leading lights campaigning in the belief there is no problem with the climate.

So you do have to look behind these announcements and are some coming out and saying things because of this interest which can often cloud judgement
Brian Dixon and howard mcsweeney1 like this
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 745
- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
3 June 2017 12:27329533
#16 report
looks like Bobs invested in the green crap .

Back to reality, take one battery car in November and set out from Dover to London , switch on the heater and see haw far you can get up the M2.
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,892
3 June 2017 12:39329534
#17 report
Keith Bibby wrote:
looks like Bobs invested in the green crap .

Nope, but I DO have a close family member who is a leading researcher in photo-voltaics and I can bore for hours on the true cost of energy and the missed opportunities by not investing in a truly 'smart' grid. Lawson of course, has a degree in PPE and a daughter who can cook so is well worth listening to on the subject?
"Shall we go, you and I, while we can? Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds"
howard mcsweeney1
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
3 June 2017 16:21329550
#18 report
This is quite an interesting read on the subject of renewables without scientific jargon.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40120184
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,892
3 June 2017 17:34329551
#19 report
Here's another non-too-techy article from the Economist a few weeks ago.

http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21717365-wind-and-solar-energy-are-disrupting-century-old-model-providing-electricity-what-will
"Shall we go, you and I, while we can? Through the transitive nightfall of diamonds"
Guest 745
- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
3 June 2017 20:14329562
#20 report
there's a side to this green crap, that you're not being told, and that's the fact that they have been building smaller inefficient gas and biomass mass power plants all over the country.

so as the panels that don't work at night or the windmills that don't turn without the wind become useless the fossil fuel burning small subsidised units kick in.

one small gas powered unit in ash, pumps its CO2 into the greenhouses, earning it the stamp of approval of green energy . or green crap, no expense spared to the poor suffering consumers paying for it all.

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