howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
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Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,994
Rubbish. The problem is that we have in the UK 2/3 of the population (if we include pensions) beholden to the state for some part of their 'income'.
The plan with Universal Credit is to combine payments for
Child Tax Credit
Housing Benefit
Income Support
income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA)
income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
Working Tax Credit
to one payment rather than the present farce of people finding that their Housing Benefit has been stopped because their Income Support went up while their eligibility for Working Tax Credit changed and non of the issuing offices knew what the other was doing in real time.
The present system was ridiculously stupid with the system giving with one hand and taking away with the other except there were SIX hands involved!
Rolling out the system will inevitably throw up problems. Any change does because with the best will in the world one can't design a system to cover ALL eventualities from day one. This is why Windows 10, which is a lot less clunky than the system most of us started with, still needs updates.
An example of this would be women fleeing an abusive partner who wish to claim benefits might find that all the necessary paperwork is at the home they have fled. Previously their 'local office' would have their records and it could be easily sorted. Under UC they would have to start again with the application.
Having found out about this from the CAB (of which I'm a trustee) I've got 'our' Charlie getting it sorted. It wasn't some sort of wicked anti-wimmin design feature as one person claimed to me. It just needed tweaking.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I take it that last paragraph was tongue in cheek Bob, something announced in 2010 takes seven years to "tweak"!!
Tory back benchers are in panic mode as it can take 6 weeks from coming off a benefit to receiving Universal Credit which leads to rent arrears building up. Talking of rent can there be anything more daft than including it in the payment rather than paying direct to landlords? Some people have an emergency cost so use the rent portion on it whilst others with a less responsible attitude might choose to enlist the services of their local tattooist. Either way the result is the same, eventual eviction resulting in major costs to local authorities in placing families in bed and breakfast accommodation.
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Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,994
howard mcsweeney1 wrote:Talking of rent can there be anything more daft than including it in the payment rather than paying direct to landlords?
Difficult one to call Howard. Do we patronise the population by literally doing everything for them and providing everything for them from cradle to grave or do we treat them as 'grown-ups'?
To use an analogy-
Should the state
1. Provide money for toilet paper.
2. Provide the toilet paper itself.
3. Send someone round to wipe everyone's arses.
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"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
To use a better analogy-
Give a man a fish and he'll be fed that day.
Give a man a fishing rod and he'll provide himself food for longer.
In context, a decent paid job finances people, the exchequer AND the high street economy. (As opposed to the disgusting multiples of salaries and bonuses that the fat cat, couldn't care less oligarchs, are stuffing into their tax-haven bank accounts.)
I find myself agreeing with the sagely witterings of Mr McSweeney1, Universal Credit should be put on hiatus. The impact in Hastings (and wherever else it has been introduced) has been catastrophic. It may be a better long term solution within a reformed welfare system - but it isn't that as yet. Nothing wrong with taking another look at the roll out process...unless, of course, you don't care about those in need.
howard mcsweeney1 likes this
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,994
All of the problems outlined above could be summed up in one headline - 'People complain that they are not getting free stuff paid for by other people fast enough'.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Guest 1881- Registered: 16 Oct 2016
- Posts: 1,071
Captain - I get what you mean regarding income tax, but those 'free stuff' people that you seem to believe are much more of a problem than the tax-dodging corporations, oligarchs and executives DO pay tax including on energy bills and of course VAT. Why is it some people find it more suitable to kick someone when they are down rather than help them to get back up?
Guest 3065 and Jan Higgins like this
Just because you don't take an interest in politics doesn't mean that politics won't take an interest in you. PERICLES.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,886
I;'m all for people finding ways to help themselves,
but without doubt there are a lot of people unable to help themselves for lots of reasons.
Also when the playing field is a lot fairer people will come on board, but that's unlikely ever to happen
Guest 1881 likes this
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Despite opposition from many MPs who are inundated with calls from constituents the roll out will continue with 50 job centres a month applying it. The department has backed down on the helpline charge of 55p a minute and will be free of charge soon. One of our local councillors tried to help a constituent with a claim and was on the phone for an hour without solving the problem.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
it takes 6 weeks to proses ,with no money to spend for that period,.in one case a single mother has been waitng 8 months plus.what with no cash she is heverly in debt and having to live on hand outs.she has aplyed many times with the departmeant conveitly losing her claim forms.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
The local Labour party were in town earlier as part of their campaign against Universal Credit.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,994
One wonders how many employees of the Labour Party are paid 'in advance' which is what Labour are suggesting with UC.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Captain Haddock wrote:One wonders how many employees of the Labour Party are paid 'in advance' which is what Labour are suggesting with UC.
Difficult to compare real wages with the pittance that the benefit system provides nowadays.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,994
Howard, I believe the ever growing benefits system was originally designed as a safety net, not a lifestyle choice.
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
Captain Haddock wrote:Howard, I believe the ever growing benefits system was originally designed as a safety net, not a lifestyle choice.
You are indeed correct Bob but £73. 10 per week to cover food, clothing, fares, electricity, gas and water is hardly a safety net but a route into debt with loan sharks.
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,994
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
Captain Haddock- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 7,994
Also see FT's take on it
https://www.ft.com/content/ca01beee-b4a7-11e7-8007-554f9eaa90ba
As with most things in life 'it's complicated'!
"We are living in very strange times, and they are likely to get a lot stranger before we bottom out"
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352