Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
There was an interesting Question Time last night on BBC TV, more interesting than usual. One woman spoke very well from the floor. She was a bizarre mixture of half Irish-half Afghanistani and she spoke about the race issue from a position of experience...as you can imagine!
She said roughly this.
" Lets not kid ourselves, people know exactly who they are voting for when they vote for the BNP. The organisation is talked about every single day by every single other political party..people know exactly who they are.
People did NOT vote for them as a backlash against Labour as there were 16 other candidates to chose from on the voting form, people purposely voted for them because racism is alive and well in this country and people voted for exactly who they wanted to vote for..."
And indeed the chances are she is right. We have two unsavoury members repesenting the UK in the European Parliament now, and while the main stream Party spinners like to grumble this and that about how awful these people are, they are forgetting the ultimate realism..ie that 1,000,000 ( or near as dammit) people voted for them...and wanted to vote for them.
Guest 686- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 556
"British jobs for British workers", said Gordon Brown not so long ago. A BNP-style racisit slogan if ever there was one.
I still reckon that the BNP vote was at least partially a backlash against Labour for those that couldn't bring themselves to vote Conservative or UKIP.
Two BNP MEPs is hardly going to upset the boat in Brussells - if they ever bother to attend.
Phil West
If at first you don't succeed, use a BIGGER hammer!!
She was right. And it is irritating to hear MPs and others say a vote for the BNP is a vote against democracry: it is tangible evidence that we DO live in a democracy, when we allow people to vote for racists and bigots and value our free speech so highly that we rely on it to counter the extremists and bigots. Imagine free voting like this in some of the "european" countries....or the African countries.......
It is because we can accept that scum like the BNP have a right to free speech that we are able to defeat them. "Keep your friends close...and your enemies closer...". So wise.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i reall cannot the big problem, 2 meps indeed.
i love the way it gets up the noses of the establishment.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Howard its not so much the 2 mep's although thats bad enough..but its the fact that 1 million people put them there. They voted for a racist party but why??? there were 16 options on the ballet paper..it was longer than War and Peace
with just as many options. So putting 2 and 2 together these voters clearly chose racism, thats the shock and disappointment. Despite all the efforts to abolish racism and so on, the fact of the matter is...its growing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i think that you are being a bit simplistic here paul.
with all due respect, people were promised "british jobs for british people", both big parties have gone back on this.
referendum on the lisbon treaty and the euro?
banks bailed out, but not industries where working class people work.
how many racist people do you know paul?
i suspect about the same as i do, none.
don't forget the ukip have stacks of meps based on their island thinking.
neither of the 2 parties mentioned here have more than 2 policies between them, the people gave a clear "up yours" to the likes of gordon, david and nick.
so called experts blame the results on the expenses scandal.
not true, the 2 out of 3 that did not vote voiced their opinion on the scandal in the negative way.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
Maybe so many people voted for the BNP because we cannot discuss many race-related issues any more, including immigration, without being called racists.
Look at the furore caused by my little joke about the fairy and the immigrant; it was jumped on from a great height and I was castigated in the press, radio and tv.
If we are not going to allow open, intelligent debate about immigration and integration, then the only way many people can voice their opinion, is through the ballot box.
So it is up to the main parties, to make sure that the narrow-minded people who pounce on the racist card, do not stifle the ordinary man's viewpoint and concerns and create an open attitude and approach, where it can be discussed.
Roger
People could have given the bums rush to GB by voting green - they chose white supremacists. Job done. And yes, GB and DC and even little NC have some responsibility for that, but ultimately we put our cross where we believe our hearts and minds to be.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Firstly ROGER your so called JOKE offended some posters and surely that was enough to have a RE think? clearly not?
However the BNP got the vote the main parties need tpo get there ars** in gear to make sure seats are won baCK and they are put back where they belong
British jobs for british people, oh dear what do with all the NHS workers or rail workers that are non white?
Sadly every day I see ENGLISH people who haVE no interest in working nor will they ever.
the debate will go on
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
You've hit the nail on the head Keith; a joke about a fairy and the perception of Government policy on immigration, means that I can't discuss immigration now without being called a racist.
There was nothing in that joke about being anti-immigrant, but what English people and those wanting to come to Britain, think that new immigrants receive.
If all those waiting at Calais to catch a lorry or train here, or others further afield, want to come to Britain, it is because they believe that they will get so much more here than any other European Country; the fact that it may not be the case, is irrelevant, it's what they perceive and that is what that joke was about.
And I did apologise for any offence it may have caused.
I only use it to illustrate how many people pounce on innocent comments to stifle intelligent debate - and that is why the BNP is doing well, because peope are scared to talk about it openly - as on this Forum, so they use their vote.
Roger
The jokes over - let's move on. 2 BNP MEPs isn't going to change the world, but it is a wake up call.
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
Yes Bern, you are so right there.
Keith if you bring up that joke one more time I'll ..................
for goodness sake!!!
In this day and age we should be free to discuss any subject we chose. Immigration is a big issue here in Dover and if we are not allowed to discuss it then there is something radically wrong somewhere. I totally agree with Roger, open debate is what is needed and should not be stifled. I was recently a victim of racism against me! Am I not allowed to speak about it? I wouldn't on an open forum for obvious reasons but I will talk to whoever I like about it - my life = my business.
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
jACQUI
You realy do need to check the postings, I DID NOT BRING UP AGAIN THE JOKE I responded to Roger's post on the so called joke.
As iv said in other postings, we all have a right to a view, you have 1 which i respect, but i dont ever go down the road of trying to silence you.
remember, you are argueing for freedom of speech !!!!!!!!!!
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
it seems that the far right [bnp] is gaining momemtum across europe at the and it does seem rife in the near continant.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Brian
Yep, theres a thin dividing line between allowing freedom, and out and out racists.
very difficult dilema.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
keith
i am mystified by your comment about non white people working on the railway.
does one have to be white to be british?
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
HOWARD
The BNP thinks so
We don't "allow" freedom - it is a human right. We also need to be clear about what freedom: we don't have the freedom to murder but we do have the freedom to self-protect; we don't have the freedom to incite hatred but we do have freedom of speech; we don't have the freedom to take what isn't ours but we do have the right to life and therefore the right to food and water. Freedom is a misunderstood concept.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Incite hatred (bern) and the BNP well now theres an interesting one,
are we saying they don't incite hatred?
interesting,,,,,,
Who said that? The BNP attract and incite hatred, that's the fun part for them isn't it? But we need to be clear about our own freedoms and responsibilities, one of which is to enable free speech while ensuring no hatred is incited. A balance, for sure, but a clear need.
