I am finding it utterly amazing that Keef always manages to twist this type of topic into anti-Roger-the-Racist claptrap. But anyway...
I'm a bit bothered by the rise of the BNP, but I can sort of understand it too. When people feel suppressed (for example in an ultra-PC environment where free expression and debate is hampered by the desire not to appear offensive) then those same people WILL express themselves some other way, as mentioned above, at the balot box in this case.
But those (including me) who are alarmed and critical of this outcome is actually alarmed and critical of democracy. We can NOT condemn the choice of the people if it is the free will of the people to vote the BNP to power (in whatever capacity that means). After all, that's what democracy IS. The fact that people "know" who they're voting for means that the people are clearly very bothered about a lot of things in this country and the major parties would do well to pay close attention and not bury their heads in the sand and pretend it is a result of expenses scandals or trivial matters.
If people in the UK are really so fed-up with multiculturalism, the rise of Islam, immigration, cheap foreign labour, or the inability to have a sense of humour to the point that they are willing to cast a vote for a nationalist party then maybe it's time we did drop all the PC-bulls**t that chokes us to death and actually debate it and address it all properly. I don't offer any type of solution - that is for society to decide - but I do see the BNP votes as a loud cry by a million UK citizens that something major is very wrong in this country. It may even refer back to my older topic about why the UK is a crap place to live, and the idea that no positive British identity has been fostered ever since New Labour poured its do-gooder scum over this once proud nation (yeah yeah, I'm waiting for the "Maggie started it" comments). Maybe the BNP is the only party that currently expresses ideas of "national pride" that normal UK citizens understand. Maybe it is NOT about racism or nationalism for those who actually voted but about simple patriotism, albeit conducted in a misguided manner. We could be in a dangerous situation where patriotic individuals only have one means of "feeling" patriotic because no other alternative currently exists.
Doesn't "people" include Muslims, cheap foreign labour, immigrants (such as my Dad many years ago when he left Ireland), and people with alternative cultural ancestry? Absolutely, voting for the BNP is a vote for democracr and i am as fed up as anyone with the bleating MPs who have claimed that the rise of the BNP proves we do not have a "democracy" - the reverse is true - people are actually free to vote for whom they like. Democracy, as is. Please tell me, though, what the alternative to Politcal Correctness is? Isn't it Political Incorrectness? I don't think that is a very cool aspiration. Perhaps what you mean is that we are fed up with people hijacking Politcal correctness and bending it to mean something else for their own purposes....job done, eh?
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
well there is a saying, from tiny acorns mighty oaks grow. are the two bmp meps the acorns that grow or is it a passing phase.one will have to wait and see.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Rick bruv chill out,,,,,,,
As I stated to your like minded friend Jacqui we must be able to disagree without all this KEEF ITS ALL YOUR FAULT MATE !!!!
As I said to Jacqui, I DID NOT raise the issue of the SO CALLED joke, I replied to Roger's posting.
Luckily at the mo we still have freedom to express our views, and I do understand some of you will agree with roger and some with me, thats freedom of expression,
Rather than go back on the dreary years of our MAGGIE we can be far more pro active.
Let me give you an example, a tiny, but active group (priory forum) were feeling the tensions around 8 years ago when the asylum issue was becoming a big issue in the ward.
It decided a number of ways to make sure its voice was heard,
1; It held a public meeting where the M.P. , council chief executuive, supt of police,
housing director of council were all invited (as were migrant helpline who
declined to attend)
At the meeting many raised concerns and those on the top table explained
things from there point of view
Coming from this the MP arranged a meeting with the then home Sec Jack
Straw who met the locals to discuss the issues.
At that time (you may recall) in the main the Folkestone road was a real
problem area, and tensions high, but from that meeting Folkestone road was
used less, and dispersal to other parts of th country introduced.
There are ways, to raise issues as they did at that time,
2; Yep people are without doubt peed off with politics in general with all the
parties, and although the expenses scandal may not have been the total
cause, it certainly didn't help.
Yep people have disengaged with politicians and made there voice known
but i think thats a good thing, its hopefully a wake up call for ALL
politicians.
We could have post after post about how bad our maggie was
or how people see gordon, but it solves nowt
The reason for my short post lol is to say, its all about freedom to be able to post on here, i'v noticed a trend of person's coming on here having a go at me cos i dare to disagree with there opinions.
Sadly this is where it all headed before and some labour posters just stopped posting(not me)
I'm a great believer in peoples freedom to be able post even if i disagree with them
even down to our MAX many posters felt he should be banned(before he was) but i defended his right to post, i may disagree with him, but he has a right to an opinion
I hope that we don't head back to the days when the only main posters are Barryw etc (as much as im sure some would like)
EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO POST AND BE HEARD
WHETHER I(YOU) AGREE WITH OR NOT
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
has paranoia set in totally keith?
for the umpteenth time no one is trying to stop you posting.
yet again you refer back to that old joke after promising not to mention it again.
should people disgree with what you say, they have every right to voice their view, the same as you do with barry and roger in particular.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
kieth,thankyou for your kind words.
i tend to agree with kieth on the points he made about peoples right to post there opinions.
weather your red or blue or sky blue pink everybody has differant views on differant subjects.
so lets all calm down before we all blow a gasket and get back to normal debating.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
HOWARD
You also need to check posting
Ihave again checked
ROGER POSTED 0639
I replied 1236
so wasn't me who raised it !!!!
and you say i don't read posts
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
Hya Rick - my like minded friend lol
To be honest I think one of us could start a debate about black being black and white being white and Keith would argue about it. I think Howard is right - paranoia has definitely set in
We all have a right to a view but with most people, Rick, Bern, Howard for example - their views are points of view that are worth reading. Keith on the other hand just seems to be looking for an argument all the time - if you don't agree with him he'll try to put you down and tell you to read the post properly( see his last post attacking Howard). Makes very boring reading
No-one is trying to stop you posting Keith, that's all in your mind, it's just that your constant attacks on anyone who dares to (in your mind) speak out of turn get very tiresome. Well I for one, and I know there are others, have decided not to read anymore of your posts - total waste of time. I will still enjoy reading the posts from the other members but without the annoyance in the background.
There ya go - that's free speech and if I get banned for saying it then so be it - it was worth it!!
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,696
Oh dear, never mind let us not tax our little grey cells by actually reading what people really post; let us all just misread them based on our pre formed misconceptions and lo our misconceptions are proven. Lordy what a surprise.
Any way back to the topic:
Yes the BNP are racists
Yes their constitution is racist
Yes many of their members are ex NF or worse
Is this the end of democracy - absolutely not it shows what can happen when the main political parties ignore the concerns of the electorate
Pathetically low turn outs exaggerate the support of minority parties, particularly where there is a proportional representation system in operation
Should we deny these people a platform - NO
What we must do is take every opportunity to show these people to be shallow minded bigoted racists and to show how their propaganda is built on lies and half truths.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Ross
You are correct (nowt diffrent to what i have been posting)
Jacqui as you say its your choice if you wish to read my posts, Unlike yourself I do read everyone ones posts as do like to be informed, and happy to hear from peoples points of view from all diffrent backgrounds/viewpoints, but i don't have to agree.
I have in the majority of posts agreed with many of the posters including Roger/Barryw and many more it seems im not allowed to disagree but others can.
Roger on a regular basis will be highly critical of the labour party/govt as are many other posters, and thats there right, and they get personsal at times, and i reply cos that was what posters wanted.
It looks to me like some of you don't like the alternative view, i'm considering now to cut down, maybe even discontinue posting, shame realy cos i thought this forum wanted a cross section of people and that means being critica;l of others
will watch further posts
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
No keep on going Keef me oul mucker. you are essential as a counterpoint. Both yourself and BarryW are counterpoints and without that where would we be. Life might get too tranquil..
Lets all get on guys
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Ross Im not sure giving these guys from the BNP a platform is the right way to go. The more platform a political party get the more the members increase. Have a good speaker and bobs yer uncle, their popularity could soar. One remembers Hitler, had they locked him in a cellar for 30 years the world would have been a different place, a better place. He could have practiced and preached his free speech to the four walls. That way no-one would have been captivated by what he said and millions would have been saved from a ghastly fate.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Paulb
It is difficult when whenever I DARE to disagree posters come on here the way they have more recently.
I don't expect/weant people to have to share my view, thats all it is a point of view, I'm not here to disagree with barryw, in fact there are issues that Barryw and I share views, thinking of one, (benefits) we probably have very similar views, even though we would choose diffrent ways to achieve an outcome.
i WILL keep my options open with regard to postings but i'm afraid I will be as critical as others are on the labour party.
Not because I support all the labour party does, but there are alternative views which should be expressed, and i'm finding posters going back to where the forum found itself a few years back where it became anti labour or even anyone who dared to support that view point.
Theres a real danger at the moment that we are slipping down that slippery slope.
And I'm not alone often Sid P , and even sometimes John are treated the same way because they give an opinion.
As I say I will keep my options open
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Yaou must be careful paulb your not taking the majority posters view lol
Opinion=great; regurgitated posts=unwelcome! This thread, for instance, is about the BNP and racism, not about who started a chat about some long-dead topic that is best left alone.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
BERN
You are correct and i only reply when people again raise the issue i have left the issue alone but replied when it again got raised.
ps hope you enjoyed your coffee
Indeed I did keef, thank you! Currently on a caffeine rush, so take care!!!!
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Don't know why but coffee and dark chocolate give me migrains so i try to avoid them
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
At the end of the day there is only one way in an open free democracy with free speech.
All views should be open to debate and discussion. If any one side, whether the obnoxious extreme right or the equally obnoxious extreme left, is unable to access the same freedoms of speech as the mainstream parties, then they will thrive underground and will pose a much bigger threat. That will just glamourise them as persecuted minorities, attracting sympathy and therefore supporters.
It is the attempts to supress valid concerns about immigration through pc attitudes, that has beeen the greatest recruiting sergeant for the BNP. You cannot brush under the table genuine fears and worries that ordinary decent people have and not expect a backlash. If I lived in one of those sink estates in Burnley I might be tempted to give what I might view as a comfortable estabishment conspiracy a black eye by voting BNP.. (wash my mouth out in shame for saying that!!!)
The BNP should have the same right to have their views exposed to open and free debate and we should trust then in the common sense and basic decency of the British electorate to send them packing.
You have to trust the electors, that is the only way in a democracy.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
BAZ
Hear what you say lets hope things improve and like you I wouldnt fancy being asian or such like and living in Burnley