Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
18 December 2008
17:4111142i begger to differ barryw i belive that it started when maggie started to sell of the silverware and left the cubard bare.at least when we had the silver ware we had or i should say the goverment had an income coming in.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 December 2008
17:5911144Thats the :abour official line is it Sid - well the more you lot protest then maybe there is something in it...
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 December 2008
18:0111145Brian: Trying to go back 20 years to Mrs T after 12 years of Labour is pushing it....
Mrs T promoted fiscal responsibility and not the fiscal mess Brown has created, you need only to look at her record to see that, chalk and cheese.
Sid Pollitt
18 December 2008
18:4011151I am not in the know about election dates Barry. I'm also not part of any party spin machine. I have my own opinions and express them. I do not put forward one thing that looks like a 'suggestion' from central office that is opposed to my own view, like you did in this thread. What's going to happen if you loose your lead in the polls, are you going to get even more desperate?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 December 2008
18:4911152You clearly dont like discussion Sid as you never engage constructively. You have the same old record, repeated again and again and will never actually discuss the points raised. I am quite open about my views and am willing to discuss other views, such as the possibility of an early general election and the reasons why or why not it might be called. Sadly you cannot see that because you seem only to be desperate to defend this rotten Government and just see spin and anti-Government plots everywhere. A bit sad really as you seem to want to obscure your particular relationship and history with the Labour Party (quite understandable that, an embarrassing association for anyone!)
I am very relaxed about the polls as I do follow overall political events and read up from a variety of sources. If you had any real knowledge about polling patterns you would realise that Conservatives need not be too concerned, far from it.
You are capable, I am sure, of making some constructive and positive contributions to discussion so it is a great pity that you do not do so and choose to just snipe with the same tired old comments.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
18 December 2008
20:2911161being serious for a moment, how many people look up political parties website/s?
i cannot imagine anyone being that sad, just like listening to a tv election broadcast or reading an election leaflet.
no-one is ever going to learn anything from the above.
i have not yet heard a politician say "look lads, i have seriously testicled things up","vote for me anyway".
anyone with a grain of intelligence, that is interested in the way that the country is run, reads a variety of newspapers(not barry's red tops though), listens to and watches the media that exercises balance, then balances it with their day to day experiences.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
18 December 2008
20:5311162Couldn't have put it better Howard, I often think that it is sad to be sucked in by a specific political party, they have all made blunders at our expense in th e past.
At the end of the day it will be the ordinary voter in the street that decides which party is going to do the best for them. To keep quoting IMF, OECD and EU statistics means very little and I think if I had to read all that stuff before I place my cross, I'd slit my wrists.
None of us on here are professional politicians, even a councillor is basically an amateur so let us discuss the things that really matter, fuel & heating bills, what the recession actually means to us and stamping on the greedy bloodsucking bankers.
Feel better after that, you almost got me going there Howard
Sid Pollitt
18 December 2008
21:2811166I'm sorry Barry, it must be me, but I cant see that you are open about your views or that you are willing to discuss other views. You seem to put your views and then rubbish any other opposing views, earlier in this thread you did this with my view that an election wouldnt be in February quoting [what you would call ancient] history. And you almost always seem to be peddling some line that seems to come from somewhere else, which is fine if that's what you want to do, but the point I was making was that this particular suggestion regarding a possible election date you didnt actually agree with yourself. As you will, no doubt continue using sentences such as 'If you had any real knowledge about polling patterns' etc to not just me then you'll get the same level of discussion.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
18 December 2008
21:5211168dave
that is what the person in the street talks about constantly, me included.
energy bills, why have they not come down when oil prices have?
a lady across the road to me(totally apolitical) made the following point.
how come the government gives all this money to the feather bedded banks, yet leaves woolworths loyal staff in the brown stuff?
i bet the staff at woollies do not sleep, worrying all night, about what the economists think.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 December 2008
23:2911170You get the response you deserve Sid. I have certainly not seen anything intelligent or constructive from you. Read what you actually said and place my responses into that perspective. Maybe its just that you are clumsy with your use of language. Compare the 'discussions' between you and I and many others I have had with people such as DT1 and you may learn what a discussion is all about.
Howard - you and I can agree about reading material from a range of sources then. Where we would disagree is over what is really important. Yes the price of fuel etc to which you refer are important along with the job losses and other bed and butter issues, but we also have to look at the root causes of these problems to address real solutions and that is where economoic analysis comes in. The reports from the IMF, OECD and other bodies provide real third party evidence of where the UK economy has gone wrong in this respect. It is the difference with pallatives, treating only the symptoms and getting to the root cause of the problems. You are right this may be above the heads of many people but that does not make it less important or less interesting.
Dave1 - All political parties do indeed mess up but for those of us who pin our colours to a particular Party it is a lot more than that. It is about how we see life and about shared values, not policies some of which work and some of which go wrong. The Labour Party is essentailly a party of big Government, of cradle to the grave, nanny statism, Government knows best. It is with that basic frame of mind that they justify high taxes, red tape and massive increases in beaurocracy. I prefer the Conservative approach where it is the individual that is important, small Government, less tax and leaving people alone to get on with their lives. There are various degrees of each philosophy within each Party that makes for good internal debate as well as debate between the Parties themselves.
At then end of the day we need a Government and for me it can simply be put down to big Government or small Government and its small Government that I am in favour of.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
18 December 2008
23:3711172barry
you are still talking about philosophy, people are interested in practicalities.
not all root causes are down to this government.
only today the oil producing countries announced a cut in oil production, so that prices rise again.
to me this is like a declaration of war, will our present leaders or indeed our leaders in the wings take military action against them?
we all know the answer.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
18 December 2008
23:3911173Howard
Firstly I'm the sad anorak that scours the home pages of each party I even read various blogs and extreme offshoots linked around the parties.The more informed you are the better placred you are to offer an opinion.
Secondly the reason or at least part of the reason that energy bills have not fallen in line with oil prices is because the energy companies bought their current supply at the inflated prices during summer.So it won't go down until next Feb/March at the earliest.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
18 December 2008
23:4411175Marek, you are right about that.
Howard - no not entirely philosophy, practicalities too. Yes the reason for supporting a particular Party is philosophical as I explained, but the bread and butter issues people are concerned about have causes and that is a practical matter down to higher economic issues. It is the difference between moaning about a problem and getting to the cause, I am inclined towards solutions rather than just swapping whinges.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
19 December 2008
00:1111176marek
if what you say is true about futures purchasing, why did they go up so much in the first place?
another matter, why are the other countries in our fair economic union paying so much less?
edf(electricity de france) operate all over europe.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
19 December 2008
01:0611178Whenever it happens the government will still get in and we will all be complaining within hours.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
19 December 2008
08:2111186Yes of course Chris - the Government always gets in - the problem is which one is best for the Country as a whole, not just the individuals ??
Roger
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
19 December 2008
08:3711188Got to jump on that one Roger!
"the problem is which one is best for the Country as a whole, not just the individuals ??"
That's not the Conservatives then, as their political philosophy is based purely on the individual.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
19 December 2008
10:3511202Sid
I have to agree with you on this one on Barryw
I feel he is trying to convince himself that at some point DM will announce a policy!!
its desperation.
No one is convinced of the spin, its clearly a biased view, then he has the cheek to go for you for daring to be critical of him.
funny world aint it!
Sid Pollitt
19 December 2008
12:4211216I fink I got called thick, I aint been been called thick before. Tactics init.
I was watching This Week last night, the politico show with Andrew Neill, Michael Portillo and Diane Abbott. Neill asked his guests, that included Charles Kennedy, when they thought the general election would be called for and most said it would probably go full term. Portillo said he thought it would be in the Spring of 2009. Neill then pressed them for an actual date and the others all said 2010. Portillo, bless him, said 26 February 2009. Has someone changed the start date of spring?
If he does think it will be on that day Portillo is probably the only person in the country that actually does. John should get on to him as he is not only the only one that will take up his bet but I think John will find it'll be easy money.
I think that is the subject of this thread.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
19 December 2008
14:2011222Sid - I certainly would not do that, I just think that you do not do yourself justice in many of your posts.
Who knows, Portillo might be right and the rest of us wrong. It is certainly worth speculating over and not long to wait until we know. I hope he is right because, despite the problems that will be faced, the sooner we get rid of this Government the better.