Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
30 October 2009
09:0331998Iats all labours fault, lets blame them for everything,
the navy,
way parents bring up there children
way people act in an anti social manner
way people drop litter
etc etc
bored, ?
yep me to
its important, but we have to move any from these political spins
roll on the general election
then when its a hung parliament or labour win, barryw anfd others will come on here like before saying;
The people will elect labour and don't know what there talking about.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
30 October 2009
09:5532004barryw,its nothing to do with a eu superstate its a joint action in the indian ocean,and dont forget there is other eu nations in afganistan,you could call it an eu army/airforce as well.personly i think you being bloody minded about the eu because you are frighted of the bigger picture.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
30 October 2009
11:1732019The whole concept of a EU defence structure is wrongheaded and weakens NATO. This EU Navy/taskforce whatever you want to call it is the thin end of the wedge. Not scared of the EU Brian, just want us out and well clear of it.
Keith - why not stick to the thread topic and/or to issues I actually raise?
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
30 October 2009
17:1932054barryw,i totaly disagree with you,the eu taskforces are a force to be reckond with and would reinforce nato standins greatly.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
30 October 2009
17:5632059surely there is a big difference between a fully fledged EU navy and a task force set up to deal with specific incidents?
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
30 October 2009
19:4232065I would'nt worry guys and gals.
The Royal Navy WILL always be the Royal Navy.
As Howard says ( unless it is attatched to a task force for a specific incident or problem ).
Don't panic.
Tell her well done from me Tom.
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
31 October 2009
00:0532079But Ian - do not underestimate the ambitions of the EU fanatics.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
31 October 2009
07:3632080what ever barryw.you old scaredy pants.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
31 October 2009
08:3132085Back in the 30's Churchill was warning Britain of Germany's growing threat and no one took any notice then; there is a similarity now, although with all due respect to Barry (and I do have a lot of respect for him), he's not Churchill, but Europe is still a growing threat to our Sovereignty - in the different way we run things, in the decisions we/they can make and the increasing costs to us.
There's the whole world to trade with; I'm sure our trade with European countries is greater on imports than it is on exports, so they will all (still) trade with us.
Roger
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
31 October 2009
17:2732115roger/barry,how many items in your houses are made in the eu,regargardless the name of the company.many companys worldwide are building factories in europe so they compeat with european countrys,sony,hitashi to name two along with toyota,nissen etc.
31 October 2009
17:4532122I have EU tenders emailed to me as part of my job - and I resent the fact that so many UK tenders have to be floated in an EU tank. I have to sign up to the EU website and tendering organisation to be in the loop, but it annoys me to do so!!!!
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
1 November 2009
08:2932145Brian - and how many of them are made in the U.K. ?? - loads of them.
Geographically, Britain is in Europe; Politically, we don't need to be controlled by them; trade-wise, we would still sell to them and vice versa.
Roger
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
1 November 2009
18:0132197roger,i was talking mainland europe,and since when have the eu controlled anybody,its only a guidline.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
2 November 2009
08:3732231There's more than enough rules and regulations coming out of Brussels every day; sadly we seem to be the only (EU) Country taking any notice of them.
Roger
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
2 November 2009
08:4732234roger,bigger fool us as ive said its only a guidline.
Guest 673- Registered: 16 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,388
4 November 2009
06:0632360I imagine that there will indeed be an EU navy in due course. The French are quite keen on having dedicated EU armed forces. They have just rejoined NATO but would like to see the EU having the ability to conduct independent operations outside NATO when desired.
There have already been numerous operations involving EU land forces. The EU contribution to counter-piracy measures off Somalia, designated Operation Atalanta, is the first use of a combined EU naval force. It is titled EU NAVFOR Somalia and is commanded by Royal Navy Rear Admiral Peter Hudson from the RN fleet headquarters in Northwood.
The force comprises warships from all over Europe and the RN contribution is the Type 22 frigate HMS Cornwall. The RN also has another Type 22 frigate, HMS Cumberland, in the area as part of NATO Standing Maritime Group 2 which has been transferred from the Mediterranean. Additionally there are of course numerous warships present from a variety of other nations, including a task force from the USN.
It seems extraordinary that it takes all this sophisticated hardware, together with air patrols, to deal with a handful of youthful pirates in skiffs but the main problems are the immense sea area which they can roam operating from mother ships and the difficulty of distinguishing them from innocent fishermen.
Merchant ships are hijacked on a regular basis and there are up to a couple of hundred merchant seamen presently held hostage. Normally the shipping companies pay a ransom rather than risk losing a ship and cargo worth infinitely more than the ransom. The media are not usually very interested unless a passenger ship is involved or, as in this case, a yacht. The Chandlers have a bit of a problem as they have no money for a ransom and the British government says it will not pay one. Possibly some backdoor deal will be done, an exchange for pirates captured by the warships has been mooted as a possibility.
The Royal Navy is still the most powerful navy in Europe and the aircraft carriers in particular would be of great value to an EU Navy. President Sarkozy has this in mind and caused a stir earlier this year when he suggested that the refits of the RN carriers and the single French carrier, the nuclear powered Charles de Gaulle, be scheduled so as not to coincide. At least one carrier would always therefore be available.
The RN presently has three carriers but HMS Invincible has been mothballed and, barring an emergency, will not return to service. Illustrious and Ark Royal have a few years left in them.
Two new carriers, the Queen Elizabeth and Prince of Wales, have been ordered after many years of procrastination. Construction has commenced and orders placed for a great deal of equipment. They are a lot larger than the three Invincible class and are intended to operate American F-35 combat aircraft. The cost of the aircraft greatly exceeds the cost of the ships and the government has decided in the last few days to order a lot less aircraft such that only the Queen Elizabeth will be supplied with F-35's and the Prince of Wales will be equipped with helicopters and function as an amphibious vessel to replace HMS Ocean.
There will be a Defence Review after the next election and George Osborne provoked disquiet last week when he said that he would be examining the break clauses in the contracts for the aircraft carriers so it may yet be that the project will be cancelled. There is a precedent for this as Royal Navy personnel will have uncomfortable memories of John Nott proposing to scrap or sell half of the Royal Navy, immediately prior to the Argentinians invading the Falklands. The reasoning was very similar in that the money saved was to be put into the air and land forces facing the Warsaw Pact in Europe whereas today the same applies to bolstering our air and land forces in Afghanistan.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
4 November 2009
07:5932363thanks for that ed.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
4 November 2009
09:1132370Yes indeed, thanks Ed.
Roger