Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
13 October 2010
16:1474824#1
I`m sure this fine old ruin will be recognised, but can someone tell me please what it is? And is it accessible?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
13 October 2010
16:4674828#2
Colin
Part of the Moats Bulwark.
I am sure either Paul or Kathy will have some old pics of the Tea Garden that was in the same area.Our "Friends of Dover Castle" Magazine No51 has a short write up on Moats Bulwark. I quote from this:
" In 1539, when England was in grave danger of being invaded by French and Spanish forces acting under the encouragement of the Pope, Henry VIII
arranged a great programme of defence buildings all around the east and south coasts. The castles at Deal,Walmer and Sandgate were included in this enormous undertaking.
He already had the great castle at Dover, but the guns stationed on the cliff top were unable to be utilised sufficiently to defend the seashore.
In consequence he built three gun positions to deter any enemy landings in Dover Bay. The westermost was Archcliffe Fort. The Black Battery stood near the landward end of the present Admiralty Pier but has long since gone. Finally Moats Bulwark, much altered later, was built halfway up the cliff below the castle. All three were armed with an assortment of guns and an establishment of soldiers."
I had published a letter in the Dover Express a couple of weeks back where I have suggested the entrance to the castle could be in this area with a lift. Also the land in front (currently an overgrown eyesore) could easily be a coach drop-off point with Visitor Information etc.
At present the town does not enjoy much of the footfall of visitors to the castle and to re-develop this part for access to the castle with adequate car parking on the DTIZ site would at least give the oportunity for castle visitors to visit the town.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
13 October 2010
17:0774832#3
Thanks for that Pat. I don`t think I`ve ever noticed it there before, the reason being that, this morning I walked on the opposite side of Townwall street to what I have done in the past, the preferred route being the sea front. Anyway, I glanced up the cliff face opposite and spied this fine piece of architecture and with all those tree`s around it, I suspect it would be hidden on the dock bound side of the road?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
13 October 2010
17:1974834#4
what always gets me going past the derelict building near the road is the estate agents sign.
what possible purpose could that building be put to?
i seem to remember the telephone number to ring was 0474 something, shows how long the sign has been there.
13 October 2010
18:2774846#5
Unfortunately in the last 8 years that I have lived down here, the trees and shrubs have grown up and even more of this building has become obscured. I believe the building Howard speaks of was part of Guildford Battery, or is on it's site. However, we have seen lights in there, and people on the roof. The Sea Cadets used to have use of a hut down there to store their boat, but they were chucked out, I think because they were told it was going to be sold, but this same blue hut still stands empty. Moat's Bulward itself was occupied by someone who lived out of a tent for nearly a year.
13 October 2010
18:2774847#6
Unfortunately in the last 8 years that I have lived down here, the trees and shrubs have grown up and even more of this building has become obscured. I believe the building Howard speaks of was part of Guildford Battery, or is on it's site. However, we have seen lights in there, and people on the roof. The Sea Cadets used to have use of a hut down there to store their boat, but they were chucked out, I think because they were told it was going to be sold, but this same blue hut still stands empty. Moat's Bulward itself was occupied by someone who lived out of a tent for nearly a year.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
13 October 2010
19:0574868#7
Pat, you will find, thank God, that the areas around Dover are protected and cannot be developed!
Also, our White Cliffs are one of the Seven World Wonders now! Yes, officially recognised as such world-wide!
Developement such as you suggested is not possible, and adding to this, Dovorians generally want our White Cliffs to remain protected. You will find that many are proud of this, and relieved, that we have plenty of protected status around out Town, so as to deter developers messing the Country-side up.
Matt Bristow- Location: Whitfield, Dover
13 October 2010
19:2174875#8
Alexander I don't know you but I really hope that your post was some sort of joke! if only the areas around Dover such as Whitfield were protected and that development wasn't allowed.
<climbs off soap box and takes deep breaths>
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
13 October 2010
19:2174876#9
I think you mean one of the Seven Natural Wonders of the World, there is a difference.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
13 October 2010
19:2974878#10
Ask Sue at the Council, she will give a more detailed explanation no doubt. She's done a great job in terms of being for the protected status around Dover. If Whitfield should also be protected from further developement, I suppose this is something more complex, I personally would say YES!
As for Pat's proposal, I only sincerely wish and hope that it cannot be carried out owing to the protected status of the White Cliffs. People who would walk to the Castle could enjoy a lovely outing, what in the name of holy drones do you need a complicated lift for with sophisticated coach and car-parks just at the foot of the Castle in order to get to the Castle? It's ten minutes on foot!
13 October 2010
19:3374879#11
Alexander
Can I say firstly I work (as volunteer) for NT and also with other organisations that value the historical treasures that Dover is so fortunate to have that other towns would give their right arm (or indeed whole body) for. I would NEVER want to see our "Wonder of the World" the White Cliffs desicrated.
Part of the area that I mention above include Guildford Shaft(mentioned by Dianne on post6) as well as the shaft for"Dumpy" (part of the Tunnel Complex).
Therefore it is possible to have a lift INSIDE the cliffs using existing shafts even if they need to be modified.
As you know the proposal is for a Cable Car. Whilst this will link the Castle with the Town then to Western Heights if the price for using this is as high as some claim then will people use it.Also they will still park in the Castle.
I again reiterate to you whilst I am not a Dovorian (my wife is) there is a need to regenerate the town and such regeneration depends on current high volume visitors to the Castle (and White Cliffs) being able to access the town easily. At present visitors to the Castle park within the Castle or overflow on Edinburgh Field with courtesy shuttle bus to/from the Castle. The proposals I have made have no visual impact to the cliffs and would start to get the high footfall at the castle to be closer to the town.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
13 October 2010
19:3474880#12
alex
not one of the seven wonders of the world, but was chosen by readers of the august publication "national geographic" as the most recognisable of coastal views.
i must add that the walk up to the castle to many of our older visitors is not on.
i remember giving directions to a tourist many years ago, his reply was "hey we are americans, we don't do walking".
something to bear in mind when we are trying to attract visitors.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
13 October 2010
19:4574888#13
Work has been going on inside the boatshed recently...
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
13 October 2010
19:4874891#14
Pat, I appreciate your specification that the proposed cable-car would be within already-existing shafts, which puts a different light to it all, however I would note that the idea as you proposed and its intentions still do not work out.
It would imply people having to go to an area not far from Eastern Docks to obtain access to the cable-car, on foot, all the way from Pencester coach and bus stop or from Priory station (where many visitors would be expected to arrive from). And to trunge along a heavily congested motorway that only differs from other motor-ways by its indication on route maps not having a capital blue M.
It would be quicker to walk to the Castle - through the Town - following the town-centre and Castle Street route, or via Pencester Gardens (also a lovely walk) and then through Hubert's Passage.
If people came by coach to DTIZ, or by car, that would mean further town-congestion, and the unlikelyhood that DTIZ would be attractive, as it would be a giant car-park, and all that adding to the port-traffic transitting in that area.
So, once people walked from a DTIZ car/coach park along the busy motorway to the proposed cable-car entrance, they would not walk in the town-direction! On the way back from the Castle, they would be probably so upset with the repeated motor-way walk to the car/coach park at DTIZ, and with Burlington Tower standing out like a saw thimb, that they probably wouldn't do the remaining five minutes walk to the Town.
As I noted, the walk from Pencester coach park to the Castle is only ten minutes!
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
13 October 2010
19:4974893#15
The building itself I don't think has been dated but English Heritage say 16th/17th Century Gatehouse
Been nice knowing you :)
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
13 October 2010
19:5074894#16
RTFT Alex - Pat was talking about a LIFT from the Moats Bulwark INSIDE existing shafts to the Castle
NOT the ridiculous cable car
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
13 October 2010
19:5074895#17
You are right Alexander for some it is 10 minutes but is a several hundred foot, steep climb !
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
13 October 2010
19:5174896#18
Pat, in reality your proposal implies taking people quickly from East to West and from ground-level to high, so that they do not enter the town at all. It's contradictory.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
13 October 2010
19:5374898#19
Paul, have you heard of taxis. Surely a visitor coming all the way from America, Howard, can afford a taxi! There are also buses that depart from Pencester Central to Deal and stop right in front of the Castle!
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
13 October 2010
19:5674899#20
Been nice knowing you :)
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Been nice knowing you :)
