Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
money is money what ever its called.
That's a bit like saying s**t is the same as mud.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
well said Bern
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
brian
the issue is not about notes and coins, it is about who controls our economy, money supply and interest rates.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
we contol our economy what ever the currency is,most of europe does.
bern you could say that if you want to compare things,the debate wont go away no matter how much you sweep it under the carpet.
That would certainly squelch!
Whatever makes you think we control our economy?!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
brian
how would we control our economy when the european central bank is responsible for the euro?
how would we control the money supply and interest rates?
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Brian - we would not have control over our own interest rate policy if a member of the Euro. Rates would not be set in the interests of the UK economy but that of the dominant block of which we are not a 'member' simply because our economy has a different basis than the rest of Europe. The EU Commission would also have a much greater say in our borrowing and public spending policies.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
bazzz scare mongerin??
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
keith
the facts are we run our economy very differently to the eurozone.
the peaks and troughs are completely on a different time scale, not forgetting that ours is the the only one( as far as i know) that relies so much on property prices.
would you care to impart why we should join the euro?
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
HOWARD
I'M NEITHER for or against joining the Euro
if we do it should be on sound grounding, and well thought out.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Howard- dont forget that we are also an economy that is far more reliant upon small businesses than other European economies. We have a much, much greater proportion of 'micro-businesses' than elsewhere in the EU. This creates, alongside the home ownership issue you raise, a far different economic dynamic that is way out if sink with the eurozone.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard/barryw,then its time to change.at the moment we the brits have got our heads buried in the sand hopeing it the euro/eu will go away.all i can say we have got a very long wait for that to happen.
Blimey - I am in total agreement with BarryW. On Burkhas too. What is happening? Am I trapped in a vortex where thngs spin out of control into reverse?!
BarryW is right: the UK has a different market and economic pattern. And the EU is for one thing, and that is the EU. Not the UK.
Sid Pollitt
Returning to the topic, the Tories have got into bed with a new group that I reckon will turn to be a bit of an embarrassment to them. That's their choice. I just hope it doesnt harm the UK's image. To some this group looks like they'd be a good home for the new BNP MEPs but we'll get a spin job done here I guess, didnt we have someone post that the BNP werent rightwing and had more in common with the left, laughable.
Sid Pollitt
Paul Sagar writing in the Guardian reckons:
David Cameron has pledged that the Conservative party will withdraw from the European People's party grouping at the EU parliament, which includes Angela Merkel's Christian Democrat Union and Nicholas Sarkozy's UMP. Instead, the Tories will sit with entities such as the Latvian Fatherland and Freedom party, several of whose MPs marched in Riga with veterans of the Latvian SS, and the Polish Law and Justice party, one of whose parliamentarians described Barack Obama as the "black messiah of the new left" whose presidency marks the "end of the civilisation of the white man".
This policy of association with racists is nothing new. The Conservative party has long been associated with an organisation which is regularly mired in racist scandal. Indeed, many leading lights of the Tory party are former members of this organisation, and even more have made guest appearances at its functions.
The organisation in question is not a grouping of marginalised eastern European fascists, however. It's much, much closer to home, having been based since 1924 in the Cotswolds: the Oxford University Conservative Association.
The latest racist scandal to engulf OUCA is the revelation that during election hustings for the post of junior officer positions, candidates were asked to tell "the most racist joke they know" and to describe their favourite minority. One candidate answered with a joke about black people hanging in the family tree.
An isolated incident? Not exactly. In 2000, four members of OUCA were kicked out of a meeting of Oxford University Student Union for what the student press described as "a deliberate disruption of proceedings, involving Nazi-style salutes, cries of 'Viva Pinochet' and alleged drunken behaviour". In 2004 OUCA's ex-treasurer was found guilty of bringing the organisation into disrepute after writing an article claiming that "the problem with India is its culture [which is] stained by two main features which hold the country down continually with little sign of change: democracy and Hinduism". In late 2007 OUCA members were exposed in the student press for singing drinking songs that went "Dashing through the Reich/In a black Mercedes Benz/Killing lots of kikes/Ra ta ta ta".
Every time OUCA is exposed, the national Tory party disowns either the individuals implicated or the organisation as a whole. This time around, the national Conservative line is that the racist jokers in question have been suspended from the party. Previously, the Conservative party has claimed that it is not affiliated with OUCA: both Conservative Future and Conservative central office have claimed to be disaffiliated from OUCA for much of the 1990s and early 2000s.
Yet this official excuse of non-affiliation is hard to square with the Conservative party's friendly relations with OUCA. In 2008 five members of the shadow cabinet - including David Cameron and George Osborne - spoke at OUCA meetings. This year alone, John Redwood, Michael Gove, Viscount Monckton, newly re-elected Tory MEP Daniel Hannan, Edward Leigh (chair of the uber-rightwing Cornerstone group) and former Tory leader Michael Howard have all spoken at OUCA.
But then, it's hardly surprising that OUCA and the Conservative party are on such friendly terms. OUCA's alumni include Margaret Thatcher, William Hague, Jonathon Aitken, Lord Rees-Mogg and Daniel Hannan.
OUCA is a breeding ground for future Tory stars. It is not a fringe organisation trying to jump on the establishment bandwagon, it's the youth wing of the national party. That's why so many top Tory politicians were members, and why so many still attend OUCA events. Yet time and again OUCA members are exposed as racists.
So it should be no surprise that Cameron wants to move his party to be affiliated with racists in Europe - the Conservatives have long been affiliated with them.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
if the torys have joined the euro reformists group,why not reform our economy to fall in line with europe as soon as possable.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
interesting post from sid there, we do need to know more about the the politicians that are entwined in this grouping.
a couple of jokes thrown in too.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard, as long as you keep them clean.
the way sids post reads it sounds something out of the bmps handbook of etiquet and prtolcol.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Will be interested in Barryw reply to Sid's very well researched into the true facwe of todays european and UK Conservative party
over to you barryw,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,