Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Sid
Whats unfair competition? I doubt that any of the market stalls will be selling anything in the market square thats in direct competition to the shops located at that end of town and I doubt that Morrissons or Somerfield will lose much sleep over it.The only by product is that the bigger stores may lower their prices and consumers may be able to purchase locally sourced goods and home made products.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
the unfair competition thing is irrelevant.
most of todays retailers know that people can buy stuff on the internet much cheaper.
marek
you mention locally sourced goods, the folkestone market is excellent for this, most of the stalls seem to be involved with edibles.
the seafood stalls make a fortune, there is a kent farm that sell beefburgers that taste like nothing you get in one of the McD type places. two stalls selling confectionery made in kent, someone else selling local bakery products.
that is all off of the top of my head, i see many dover people there when i go.
with rogers one being on a saterday, surely this will mean that folkestone people will be attracted by ours.?
Unregistered User
So when you all complain about traders in the High St.shutting down and having to compete against market traders that's Ok .
Think it thru. folks.
Watty
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
paul
the market is only on a saturday, markets always attract footfall that a good trader would take advantage of.
when a shop/cafe opens it has no idea whether in the future a similar business will come along, that is the risk taken.
a month ago a convenience store was all alone in market square, now there are two.
in all of the famous markets like petticoat lane and portobello road, shops are happy to get the increased business.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I can't say that shop-owners income goes up (or down) on market days because we haven't had an English market in and around the Market Square and up Cannon Street for many years - not since I've been here (1994).
Paul, the shops in Dover are closing down now (with a few more in the coming weeks) and we don't have a market to blame. I have spoken to many businesses and as I said earlier, only one said he wasn't happy, every other business was very happy.
I take it from your comments Paul, that you don't think they're a good idea ?
Roger
Unregistered User
So why should I risk trading the rest of the week in hope people will come on Saturday and compete against cheap rent, no rates and ? insurance coverage?
Do we decide we stop those greengrocers/fresh veg stalls that compete against Paynes?.
Do we stop those who purvey fresh meat against Rooks.
As we don't have fresh fish any more can't argue that one.
Should market clothes compete against High St. chains or sole traders.
Fabrics I could go on.
Perhaps you should consider why retailers go under.
It's more than caffs, etc.
But then you are the consumers and you decide what survives in Town Centres.
Funny old world ain't it.
Watty
Unregistered User
Roger, personally it does not affect me. Just thought I would give view that diverges from the occasional consumer.
A retail view other those in the Market Sq. [who would perhaps would not suffer the competition].
In Deal, it works at the North End-Union Rd car park-because it does not compete with antique shops, craft shops etc.
Hey, there are always two sides to a debate.
Watty
Unregistered User
Marek,
I don't need to be a politician to make a statement on retailing, Other than my professional career, I have been in retailing and business all my working life and continue to have interests in High St. retailing.
I don't contribute on this Forum unless I have knowledge of the subject matter.
I might be a politician with business interests [all declared] but I consider myself well rounded in life to understand both sides of the argument.
Ask Gary C and others.
Watty
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
we are honoured paul, 3 posts in a row!!
seriously though, i respect that you have a retailing background, so have an informed view.
what is your informed view on the majority of businesses not opening when we have a big event in the town?
Unregistered User
Poor judgement or experience of lack of trade to make the return worthwhile.
Simple economics sometimes.
My experience in Deal is that you have a lot of window shoppers but not many spending public.
Watty
Unregistered User
Perhaps Andy could add to the economics of specialist retailing.
Watty
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i cannot believe you said that paul, bleriot weekend and the regatta each year.
they have football crowds, numbers wise.
cafes would have a field day.
the ones that open cannot handle the business, the hungarian restaurant was the only business open anywhere near the seafront, they were absolutely inundated, could only take so mnay customers though.
the lights switch on is another example, after it finishes everyone has to walk through the precinct to reach the station, bus stops and car parks.
believe me, everyone wants something hot to eat and drink then .
Same after carnival Howard.
Unregistered User
Sorry Howard, retail is not hospitality ,food or drink trade.
Would expect them to open as many hours 365 as make economical sense, particularly during event periods. At those times they should make a killing.
Watty.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
fair point paul, we got our wires crossed there. i always thought they came under the same umbrella.
sid
forgot about the carnival, even worse than the lights switch on, high summer.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,698
So PW we try nothing new in case we upset the established?
Not very business like. nor very Tory
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
I suspect Dover small businesses are being killed, not by once a week markets, but by the horrendous rates they have to pay. At least that is what I overheard one shop keeper complain of. My husband counted 15 shops boarded up between Castle Street and Tower Hamlets Hill. And after all, there is precious little else to bring people into town for. No art galleries, no craft shops (I mean selling local crafts), etc. At Christmas time I noticed that all the shops that spring up selling market type goods seem to be crowded and doing well.
A market can only be a good thing. So thanks Roger, for doing the ground work.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Paul
I'm sorry but I am not convinced by your arguments.My birth town of Stockport has a thriving Friday/Saturday indoor and outdoor Market which attracts shoppers from all over the North West. If they can't find what there looking for on the market they visit the very busy precinct which houses most of the major players on the High St.No boarded up shops just a waiting list for businesses wishing to get in on the action.
I am not in the retailing business but it doesn't prevent me from having an opinion ..the same as you voicing an opinion on immigration but have never worked as an Immigration Officer.Opinions are like belly buttons ...we all have one...so give the market a go and see what happens .You could be pleasantly surprised.
ps What about all those cheap tat Christmas shops that manage to get a 2 month lease flogging wrapping paper 100 sheets for 10p or what ever..no-one seems to complain about their presence?Or the Asian run pound shop opposite Boots that popped up then disappeared leaving the lights burning throughout last winter and a pile of unpaid bills?At least the market traders have to pay in advance or on the day for their pitch.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
so in conclusion,we have a saterday market and the whole town dies,we dont have a saterday market and the town still dies.so whats it going to be market or no market,do we just roll over and let the town go to pot or embrace new life.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
I can't influence anyone or any body now as that opportunity has been taken away from me.
One of the posters mentioned rent and rates being too high and they are, far too high for the level of trading that the businesses are doing.
The small-business hard-ship rate-relief needs to be looked at and adjusted to make it more accessible and relevant to today's trading conditions, but again, because I don't represent anyone any more and am just an individual, it's a lone voice.
The Chamber of Commerce won't argue because they have no appreciation of small-business needs - actually that's not completely true, the Chairman does, but the other 3 certainly don't.
It's not just the lack of money (there wasn't any) that makes me angry and frustrated about the dismissal, it's the fact I can't do anying about supporting Dover and the businesses it any more.
Mixing business and pleasure (tourism and shopping) is essential; shopping is a leisure activity; leisure is an essential part of tourism, but officially, they don't mix and so are never included in any tourism leaflet or brochure - apart from the Discover Dover leaflet.
Those Christmas shops that open for about 6 weeks selling cheap paper, tinsel, calenders and presents should not be allowed to stay open; shops operating (and paying their rent and rates) are really angry about them.
I wasn't able to determine anything at that time, but have now and they can and should be stopped on a number of issues - all valid.
But who is going to do that now ?
Maybe I should just shut up and go on holiday for a few months.
Roger