howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
1 December 2009
20:1734191the swiss public have voted in a referendum to outlaw any more being built, many see it as associated with radical islam.
this surprised me somewhat as i find they are a very welcome addition to the landscape in most places.
in fact the only new build places of religion that seem to have any style to them are mosques, many of these are in depressed and run down areas, brightening them up.
the whitechapel mosque stands out in a sea of squalor.
do any forumites see them as anything sinister?
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
1 December 2009
20:2034192Sorry Howard, what are minarets? I thought you had a musical thread.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
1 December 2009
20:4334195buildings that come to a point at the top they are for praying inside or out,I think I am right on this one.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
1 December 2009
21:0134197Well this is an interesting one alright. First of all the Swiss believe in referenda. In other words it is true democracy in action which must be the Westminster type lobbyists worst nightmare. The true democracy aspect might interest Oudeis in Barry's Blog... people get to have their say on all kinds of things in Switzerland, its the way they do it. This particular referendum was not about an influx of architectural differences in the shape of minarets clouding the skyline, but was about the Islamisation of Switzerland. They dont want it. They dont want to be Islamised. They want to hold on to their heritage.
I am someone who enjoys the odd trip to Switzerland and in places like Geneva you do notice large influxes of Arabs...and with lots of money too. Not sure what their immigration policy is in Switzerland but with something like 400,000 practising muslims, mostly refugees from the Bosnian War, then they could be in danger of having their own culture compromised or eradicated. This is the worry and you can see their point.
Terry Nunn
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,303
1 December 2009
21:0634198"In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. "
Harry Lime.
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
1 December 2009
21:3734200the main parties were against the ban, opinion polls were with them.
a far right party were for the ban, then when the exit polls came out everyone was shocked by the result.
the swiss place tolerance high on their list of national traits.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
2 December 2009
11:3734221Ah good one there Terry re Harry Lime ...yes spoken atop the great wheel in Vienna in The Third Man..while below stretched out a war torn city. All sewers and rats and long shadows. marvellous
What light from yonder window breaks! it falleth into the shadows to illuminate the ghostly ghastly third man, lighting up in some style.
Howard I think it clould be a case of its all getting too much, tolerance is one thing but perhaps feeling overun is another. Thats why the politicians here are scared of referendums or referenda or whatever the correct term is, as it very often gives the result you dont want. Remember the now notorious first Irish referendum on the Lisbon Treaty?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
2 December 2009
18:3034236getting back to the referendum, it was about minarets and the perceived threat of radical islam.
the swiss do not allow the vicar to call his faithful to prayer at present anyway.
why is a minaret more unnerving than a mosque to the swiss?
2 December 2009
20:0134240It is tricky, isn't it? At what point does Tolerance topple over into Doormat?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
2 December 2009
20:2934246i think we are all going away from the point here.
the issue is not over religion but a type of building.
2 December 2009
20:4034248Buildings are powerful in their symbolism, though Howard. I always remember going back to see where I had spent part of my childhood, and the building was in ruins (not unlike myself....!) and it was actually painful - it took me by surprise. And think of how much we emotionally invest in Cathedrals and churches.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
2 December 2009
21:5634254ok colin you were right in the second post here, it is a musical instrument.
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
2 December 2009
22:0634255Its all begining to get a little bit silly now dont you think.
We had this a couple of years ago over here with jewellry if you remember.
good grief where will it all end?
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
2 December 2009
22:5934260tsk tsk ian
you of all people!!
i can normally rely on you to read the original post.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
2 December 2009
23:0734261minarets are not only a tower but are used to call the faithful to prayer 5 times a day.The inman ascends the minaret and sings out a bidding prayer in some countries this has been replaced by an almighty ghetto blaster.It can be disruptive and extremely annoying at 5 am in the morning.Unless you've lived in one of the islamic countries its difficult to describe how *issing off this is.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
2 December 2009
23:1034262I do apologies Howard, but at the end of the day it boils down to the same thing doesn't it.
I don't give a toss myself who wears what and who preys where. these days it all seems tit for tat but yes I agree, what we have got should be brightened up.
The original post was about banning something wasn't it?
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
2 December 2009
23:2034265ian
it was about the swiss banning the building new minarets.
i asked the question whether anyone here equated militancy with them.
marek
i have already posted that the swiss do not allow the calling of the faithful to prayer.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
2 December 2009
23:2534266sorry howard your term of vicar threw me as i failed to realise you were referring to an islamic religious leader.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
2 December 2009
23:5134267Sorry again Howard. The answer is no. but.
could you see a church with a cross on the front in a middle eastern country?
That is why I said tit for tat.
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
3 December 2009
18:0034280the question was whether a minaret represented radical islam.