Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
4 January 2009
20:3312072Feeling merrily seasonal the Prime Minister invited BBC journalist Andrew Marr to Downing St earlier today. Looking fitter than Ive seen him for a while Mr Brown seemed in confident mode and sought to re-assure the nation that the path he is following is the right one. As I mentioned the interview came from the solemn and hallowed halls of Downing St, dispensing with the need for a BBC studio, and it certainly gave the meeting some gravitas. One could clearly see why there has been a resurgence for him in the opinion polls as he is exuding currently a warm confidence undetectable before.
For those of a Conservative persuasion David Cameron gets his turn on the programme next week which dispenses with the recent Tory disgruntlements on bias.
Gordon has of course promised us this weekend 100,000 new jobs. He is bringing £10billion poundsworth of building and environment spending plans forward to get people into work as soon as possible. A solid stabilsing move. If he can pull it off getting people into work on this scale would be a real vote winner. 30,000 of these jobs are in the much vaunted school re-building programme.
I think the nation at this point feel the right man is at the helm at this time, he re-assured us like a cuddly but firm grand uncle today. A vast change on his previous image. Despite current opinion poll improvements Mr Brown said he "had no plans for a general election this year(2009)"
Unregistered User
4 January 2009
21:0012076I think you'll find he has announced this before. The jobs haves been added to the sums that were described. We are waiting to see if the infrastructure could bring forward the A2 dualling & have already pitched for the scheme. We expect the schools to be announced in the next few weeks.
Watty
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
4 January 2009
21:1612077a great politicians trick that.
gordon is up with the best, first announce in a budget speech that free money will be given out(in a years time), then 6 months later say it again, then another 6 months later the free money is handed over.
three good headlines for one action.
you have to hand it to our betters.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
5 January 2009
08:3312101All wanted the A2 Dualling
but tories not put it any higher on agenda at top of tree
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
5 January 2009
09:0412104I did not see the Marr show but I would not expect much of it, Marr, after all, is fully signed up to the NuLab project.
Brown get away lightly when interviewed with Marr and I can pretty much guess what Brown was saying.
Blaming everyone else for the problems, accepting no responsibility himself, the words 'global' and 'America' would have featured highly. He would have tried to pretend that other countries are worse off than the UK....
All very predictable.
He will not have been adequately tackled over why it is sterling that has collapsed, for instance. If the UK was better able to cope with the recession than the USA and other Eurpean countries why has sterling devalued by around 30% against the Dollar and Euro? He will not have been properly challenged over the IMF, OECD and EU assessments that say the UK is the worse placed developed country in the face of the recession.
He will not have been tackled over his botched changes to the way banks are regulated. In 1997 he changed the system that worked well for decades, a change that led to banks getting away with bad lending practices and the BoE keeping interest rates too low for too long.
What about the appalling levels of Government debt? This is a key reason for us to be so badly placed and his answer, to borrow more!!! Utterly crazy economics.
So he has re-cycled claims that he will create 100,000 extra jobs, so what. His economic mismanagement means that estimates for unemployment are between 2.75m and 3.5m within the next year or two. His 100,000 are a drop in the ocean.
The fact is he is floundering around from one bungled solution to another. The man is totally incompetenent, a joke.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
5 January 2009
10:2212114The people will decide
Most people even those with no interest in politics at all say how poor DC is or say WHO?
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
5 January 2009
10:5912120Yes, Keith the Tories have virtually disappeared off the political map. They just don't seem to be able to gettheir policies across. Could it be people feel that Cameron and his cronies are out of touch with the real world because of their priviledged upbringings.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
5 January 2009
11:0512122David Cameron was on R4 this morning pre announcing a speech he will be making later today. It seems new Conservative measures will be announced to protect peoples savings. This could go down well with the voter looking for some winter solace as almost everyones savings have taken a considerable beating. Do the right thing...save for a rainy day, but when the rainy day came the savings were worthless. Bad.
Although in general terms the Conservatives have knocked seven bells out of the Governments plan it was hinted really this morning that they would keep almost everything Gordon Brown has done with the excpetion of the vat reduction.
THis is just a broad brush generalisation but it seems to indicate that the general idea of 'spending us out of the recession' as originated/practised by HMG is holding water.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
5 January 2009
11:1112123Dave1
No they frightened to come forward with policies, and they want to feel touchy feely with everyone promising to do everyfing, costing out nothing.
I think the tories won't leave DC in place to long, once hes lost the general election the right wing will hound him out
and they wil lurch to the right again.
Sad thing with that is, it will make them like labour was in opposition, unelectable, whilst I didt agree with many fings T Blair did, I realise why he did it.(certainlty made local labour party meetings lively!!)
and thats all sad for politics in general.
I think the conservtive party still has to decide where the want to be in the political arena, and how they convince the rabid right of the party
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
5 January 2009
11:4912124Keith - no, I wont bother, it would just be repeating what I have said to you before. You never change your worn out tune.
Dave, strange you say DC has disappeared on the day he has spoken on Radio 4 and is making a major speech. Thankfully he did have the sense to disappear over Christmas and take a break but now hostilities are resumed.
PaulB - no you are totally wrong. The Brown approach to the economy is not universally accepted, other than in his own mind. I read an interesting article in the Mail today by Peter McKay, who is not a died in wool Tory, far from it (despite being a Mail writer). He was writing about the Marr interview and this normally very restrained writer asks whether Brown is barmy...
"""If he wasn't the PM, Brown might now be attended by men in white coats. To say he's exhibiting delusional behaviour is an understatement."""
I was amazed to read that from him and he is saying what an increasing number of people are saying about Brown.
For those who want to read it the interview is here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1105244/PETER-MCKAY-Nurse-The-screens-Mr-Brown-man-really-believes-saved-world.htmlGuest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
5 January 2009
12:3112126Barryw
Yes I will bother
Do you not think your worn out tune is not turning people off.
You can see now why I alo said to Paulb put this thread away from the mainstream forum
it bores people!!
All I as trying to do barryw was let you down gently, trying to think of our hurt feelings when gordon returns to number 10.
See even ihave sympathy (sometimes)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
5 January 2009
13:4612132Why on earth dont you adress the points raised Keith instead of turning any discussion into a pointless circus of idiocy.
Sid Pollitt
5 January 2009
14:0912133Keith gets called an idiot and it was infered that I was unintelligent, we only get serious debate if we agree with nasty rightwing ideas it seems. Talking of such things David Cameron has been on the tellybox today with more attacks and spin, why does he bother? It was all a bit trite and naff. He banged on about getting rid of Labour coz they are bad and started bad stuff [he couldn't expain how that brought about the probs at Fanny Mae, Freddie Mac, Lehmans and in Iceland] and if we had them in we'd have a better society [doesn't he know that there is no such thing as society and if they get in they'll try to smash communities and cut public spending to make matters worse] and he said Labour arent doing anything to help the economy [aint they spent weeks rubbishing Labour's package]. This is a do nothing [spin] line coz they've been acused of having a do nothing approach because they oppose the case of doing something, and would do nothing if they were in power.
Again, why is Cameron making these [it seems never-ending] speeches when he's got a a economics spokesperson? I think most independent thinkers would agree that in 1997 the Labour opposition front bench looked like a government in waiting, the Tories at the moment dont have that air. On financial/ economic matters the Tories arent using Osborne and the media seem to get the Lib Dems' Vince Cable in when they need a comment. If theat's the best of the front bench bunch then they aren't cutting it.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
5 January 2009
14:5312135The savings point was interesting. As it goes a person would only be better off by 40p in every £100.00. That works out to a gain of £80.00 in £20,000.00. hardly mind blowing stuff.
Sid I predict that they will get rid of Osborne he has become more of a liability than an asset.
Barry I rest my case you say he spoke on Radio4 this morning and has also been on television today but who really was inspired by his speech and more to the point how many will remember it tomorrow.
Truly the most uninspiring hapless and ineffective Opposition Party that I can ever remember.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
5 January 2009
15:1112136Sid - I did not call Keith an idiot do not misinterpret what I said, read it. You are also telling a porky about what I said to you.
Dave: He proposed abolishing income tax on savings for everyone on the basic rate of tax and raising the tax allowance for pensioners by £2,000. The latter alone potentially saves pensioners £400 per annum.
I have pulled together a list of the measures proposed by Osborne/Cameron which come under three heading, help to individuals at a difficult time, help to businesses and more general help to the economy. These are:
Abolishing income tax on savings for everyone on the basic rate of tax
Raising the tax allowance for pensioners by £2,000
Freeze council tax for two years
Abolish Stamp Duty for 90% of first-time buyers
Provide tax cuts for new jobs with a £2.6bn package of tax breaks to get people into work, funded by money that would otherwise go on unemployment benefit
Cut the main rate of corporation tax to 25p and the small companies' rate to 20p, paid for by scrapping complex reliefs and allowances
Introduce a £50bn National Loan Guarantee Scheme to underwrite bank lending to businesses and get credit flowing again
Give small and medium-sized businesses a six-month VAT holiday, funded by a 7.5% interest rate on delayed payments
Cut National Insurance by 1% for six months for firms with fewer than five employees, paid for from the above changes to the company tax regime
There are more measures to aimed a reduction in spending. It is this latter point where I differ from Osborne as I think he needs be be a lot bolder about cutting public expenditure. The public sector must be expected to take a share of the burden of this recession.
With my one critisism apart this lot amounts to a pretty good package unlike the ineffective flaying around done by the Government.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
5 January 2009
15:3612137The figures weren't mine Barry I got them from the BBC. perhaps they have got it wrong.
Fifty billion pounds is an awful lot of money and the other cuts you mention also add up to a fair sum, may I be so bold as to ask where he is going to get the money from.
Two matters you didn't mention Barry the Tory fuel price indicator or whatever they called it and the VAT 6 month break. Have they quietly ditched them?
The cut in NI of 1p in the pound per week is laughable and hardly likely to prevent job losses.
The policies you outline are the product of a desperate Opposition that really can do nothing to excite or inspire confidence in the masses.
Sid Pollitt
5 January 2009
17:5712145BarryW - my point is that you try to rubbish people, as well as, their points. You made out I was fick, it aint my fault though, MaggieT was educashun secretary wen i waz at skool.
The soundbite that is being broadcast at the moment is regarding what Cameron said about this tax point, but this was a very minor point in the speech which was mainly a boring winge about the government. Going back to the point I made earlier, the shadow cabinet does not compare to the one of 97, with the likes of R Cook, D Blunkett, J Straw, G Brown, T Blair etc. The current cabinet has a new bunch that, whatever you think of their politics/ party, are shaping up to be a capable lot and they are even becoming household names. It's not just that E Milliband, J Smith, E Balls, D Milliband, Y Cooper etc look like the future, the shadow lot look old and tired, and mostly forgetable.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
5 January 2009
18:1712148Precisely Sid, apart from Barry W how many on this forum could name six members of the Conservative front bench. I know two Cameron and the ever disappearing Osborne.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
5 January 2009
18:4812151The VAT break Dave has been superceded by Brown nicking the idea.
£50bn - the costs of the tax breaks annouced today is £4.2bn, if the beeb are reporting £50bn, thats just absurd, then they need to be taken to task. Doing away with the 20% tax on £100 gross interest saves £20 and 20% tax saved by the extra allowance for a pensioner (on £2,000) saves them up to £400 (dependant on income) - basic maths.
The fuel stabiliser, yes I missed it. The effectiveness of that depends on the point at which it is introduced, provided it is done so when fuel prices are lower then it is a good thing for motorists. It should not be introduced when low or they are falling, now is not a time for it.
The NI cut is indeed small but for such small businesses (5 employees) as this is intended, fighting to survive, anything is a help. A payroll of, say, £100,000 saves them £500 over 6 months.
Well, Dave - you may be willing to excuse Brown for getting us into such a mess but the electorate wont.
Sid - first, you are reading what you want into what I said.. I have decided not to involve myself in the petty and insignificant bull you spouted in the last post and stick to the important issues. It is pointless getting into that when it is Brown who is cocking up everthing he touches, he is the issue and his failing Government.
Sid Pollitt
5 January 2009
18:5712156BarryW - your views about Gordon Brown may be petty and insignificant also, who's to say? If this is the way floating voters are treated maybe I wont be convinced.
Anyway, in my opinion, the next Prime Minister of this country will be either a Blairite or a Brownite.