Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
13 January 2009
13:5412709Now, now, Chris - we have to be sensible here. This is why all the 'fluff' and nonsense needs to be cut out the bloated and pampered public sector and leave it to do what it should be doing only and that is a hell of a lot less than it does now.
13 January 2009
16:3812720Opening some Workhouses are we then?
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
13 January 2009
17:0912725theres one up coombe vally going begging soon as the polyclinic opens.
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
13 January 2009
17:5412728I would suggest that recent, tragic, news about failings in child welfare and protection indicate that there is a hell of a lot more they could be doing.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
13 January 2009
18:0312729Here is a little known fact relevant to how this discussion is going:
Out of 350 Labour MPs only 5 have ever run a business. (source: Iain Dale's Diary)
Peter Oborne points out that not a single member of the Cabinet has ever occupied a wealth creating job. (The Mail today)
First of all lets define a wealth creating job.
I would say it is one where someone uses and places at risk their own personal assets to build a business and through that, pay tax. In doing so they create directly or indirectly jobs for other people.
That basically means that all the Cabinet and virtually all the Labour MPs have only ever been wealth consumers and have depended on other's wealth creating efforts or the taxes others pay for a living.
They basically know nothing about what it takes to run a business and that explains clearly why they are following such insane economic policies. This is why businesses are burdened with so much tax and red tape and this is why the public sector is favoured in every aspect of policy against those who produce the wealth to pay their salaries.
This is why they will not make cuts to the public sector and ease the burden on the private sector to enable it to power the economy out of recession.
This is why the Labour Party are unfit to govern.
It does not help for Labour supporters on this forum to trivialise the problems faced by the private sector and to ignore the problems that they face and the policies that will ease their burden. The solution to the problems of the UK economy is entirely with the private sector and this sector, particularly the undercapitalised small and medium sized businesses, need help. The burden of the public sector that is carried on the shoulders of the private sector must be lightened.
To do this public spending must be cut. There is no other way to do it. This must not fall on the front line essential services such as the emergency services, the armed forces, nurses, doctors, teachers and schools. It must fall on those 'nice to have, not essential' jobs, it must fall on waste, it must fall on large projects like id cards, the Personal Account delivery authority and other big Government computer schemes. It must fall on the beaurocratic system and Governmental systems that interfere in all aspects of our lives and we should all expect to have to take responsibility for ourselves and our families.
Basically the public sector gravy train must stop.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
13 January 2009
18:1512733I couldn't agree more Barry - very well said.
But you won't get any support for these "left-wingers" on here Barry as they can only trivialise what you have said. Many, if not most of them can't or simply won't, see the importance of it, which is very sad.
If wealth creating businesses don't exist, there's no one to employ anyone and no one to pay taxes and then no money to pay for anything.
Roger
Sid Pollitt
13 January 2009
18:2512736Could you let us know what wealth creating jobs Alec Douglas Home, Ted Heath, Margaret Thatcher or John Major held. Or David Cameron for that matter, as far as I know he was a spin doctor for a TV company and an advisor to the disasterous Norman Lamont.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
13 January 2009
19:1412740Sid - there is a good representation of the business community among Conservative MPs, unlike Labour. Yes, DC has not run a business though he did work in the private sector.
Far too many MPs have not had any job outside politics these days. Interesting to note the backgounds of MPs from different Parties, exluding the political 'lifers'.
In Labour, the public sector dominate along with lawyers, social workers with these days a few Trade Unionists.
With Conservatives it is business and the Armed Forces that dominate with a fair sprinkling of lawyers as well.
Norman Lamont was not a disaster, he inherited membership of ECU which was the disaster and it was John Major who got us into that mess as Chancellor. Lamont had to abide by the rules of the ECU until we thankfully crashed out of it and the Conservatives will not entrust our economy to a European currency again.
One other interesting point:
There is one public sector department that has not had cash thrown at it. In fact it has had a greater and greater burden thrown at it while with the resources not being increased enough to cope. That is the Ministry of Defence. You just need to look at the public expenditure settlements for the last 11 years to see how the MoD has been neglected.
The number of Labour MP's who have served in the Forces can be counted on one hand about 1.7% of Labour MPs in fact. There is(or was) only one Minister (a junior business minister) who has served more than 3 years, I think his name is Joyce(?) and to his credit he did good service.
This is another example of where Labour are lacking in understanding and experience and as a result is totally neglected in Government. Like business this is a critically important area of policy.
Incidentally, the last I looked over 30 of the 200 Conservatives have served in the Forces, about 18% of them it worked out at, with two having seen active service in Iraq/Afghanistan with the reserves. This total includes several shadow ministers and spokesmen. David Davies was in the SAS Territorials of course.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
13 January 2009
20:3812749actually, as one who is often accused of being a left winger(especially by you roger), i have to agree with a lot of what barry has said on this thread.
i will undergo counselling, of course.
how many of our MP's have ever had a proper job?
cannot argue about gwynn there, chief engineer's jobs do not come easy.
a lot of higher up public sector jobs go to those that are already in the public sector and have not worked outside of it.
on the radio the other day figures showed that most of the top officers in the services went to public school.
we need our elected representatives to have been through the mill, both socially and in employment.
how else can they speak with any conviction about the economy and society in general?
13 January 2009
21:3112762I too will seek a counsellor, but I also have to agree. I was on a social work course once (shoot me - it was a long time ago) when a young woman fresh from the arms of her nanny and clearly wanting to Help People was asked what the young woman in the college room scenario of 5 kids under the age of 7, no husband, no education,no job, soon to lose her accomodation blah blah should do to assist herself. Said young Deb asked if she would already have sold the family jewels, because if not she could do that. Bravely I managed not to swing for her. It was a challenge........
13 January 2009
21:3312764PS - she is probably now Head Of Something in Social Services on a 6-figure salary.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
13 January 2009
22:5212773doncaster or haringey would be best.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
15 January 2009
13:1312866Well,
So all those Labour MP's elected by there constituents have no right to govern because Barryw decides they have to have business creditials
what tosh
and Roger as usual jumps in taking the tory spin line.
We don't want to go back to the days of only pivilidged people with dosh representing us,
those dreary dark days have gone.
Theres a lot of exprience im sure amongst those labour MP's and thankfully the electorate in there constituences decided they are the best people for the job.
Baz
come on boyo
theres lots of bad tory MP labour lib dem etc
and as i say labour will be re elected, its continued gripes will only bring you upset and have to say congratulation when labour re elected
nothing about left wingers(wot is that term these days?)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
15 January 2009
19:4112882just spotted brian's quip about the workhouse going up coombe valley road.
good one!!