Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
I`ve been reading today of a 15 year old boy, who often missed school lessons as he was out working, and earning alot more than what his teacher`s were. "We were all doing it" he said, "as there was no incentive to stay at school, and we were already making more money than our teachers ever would". His work? Selling crack cocaine in south London. All okay till he was beaten up and stabbed by another gang member, and found himself trapped in a cycle of crime. A housing estate resident started up a social enterprise called Mustard, which is currently proving a great success. Briefly, these youngsters have the chance to start afresh and break away from the gang mentality, by working alongside tradesmen for £6.50 an hour. Is this, or have we had this same problem in our town? And is it, or can it happen here today? askmustard.com
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
doubt if we have a serious problem locally colin.
inner cities are usually prey to this sort of thing, large population, failing schools and large estates where the pushers disappear into when they need to.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
colin,when i saw the thread heading i thought you where doing a mustard survey,when i started reading found it intressting.
my faverite mustards are all the french ones closely followed by the english veriaty.
Social Enterprises are a really positive force in engaging the excluded and vulnerable. I am just back from a conference in Westminster which included many charities, police chief commissioners, and many others involved in reducing reoffending, including Lord Bradley who wrote a significant report into mental health issues and how they can impact on offenders. I also used to work for a NFP that used social enterprise to support re-entry to society. The opportunities they provide are limited only by imagination and funding, and the funding can be managed with imagination and hard graft!! Whatever we think of convicts, what we really want is for them not to do it again! That can't be achieved by simply being horrid to people and refusing to engage with them - the best way to stop people being criminal is by making sure there is something better on offer, and I don't mean benefits, I mean something that willl underpin self esteem, self support and rewards hard work. Social enterprises can do exactly that when they are well run and supported. If you know of any, please support them - it is on your interests aswell as the excluded and the vulnerable, and their families and circles of support.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
Thank you Bern, and of course, had I not been on this forum, I would have been of a lock em up attitude. I`ve found many interesting articles in The Big Issue magazine, of which, again, had I not found this forum, I would have just not bothered buying or reading.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Bern
Other than sex offenders for whom I have no time..surely a way forward would be to eliminate the box on application forms that require one to declare whether one has a criminal conviction spent or otherwise.Most prospective employers simply note the tick and dismiss the application before interviewing the candidate.Surely that question could be asked either at the interview or later if the applicant is offered a post or shortlisted.
As it stands at present many ex-cons get disheartened by submitting job apps for jobs they could easily perform but having ticked the box hear no more.Maybe this is an area that could be addressed?
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
It's a difficult area, isn't it? Protection of vulnerable people vs reduction of bias against ex-offenders. I once offered a guy a job with elders, and he had been inside for murder. Looks bad? Well, once we had talked about the offence, his stretch, and had acquired references from the right people, and had talked it through with the elders and their families, it turned out ok. He was worth taking a punt on, we had included the people who he was going to have contact with, it had actually brought people together as a bonus because they HAD to talk to each other about it! It was a risk, indeed, for me as much as anyone!! Reputations and careers were on the line! But life is a risk, isn't it?!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
Bern
Yes and you were very brave to do so
Without ex offenders being offered the opportunity to earn money and because many of them are 'below the benefits radar' they have little or no alternative but to re-enter crime in order to obtain money.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
brian
have you tried the dijon mustard?
the best of them to my mind.
Trouble there Bern as I see it, the life at risk wasn't yours or the ex-offenders, but the "elders" as you call them. I am all for rehabilitation but not when it comes to taking risks with other peoples lives. One cannot assume they fully understand the danger they are being put in.
To be honest, my view is sex offenders, murderers and terrorists should never see the light of day once convicted. Their crimes are too heinous for words.
When you say "they" Sid, are you making unjustified assumptions about Elders? Because the process of inclusion and involvement made it very clear that "they" and their circles of support understood very well what was going on. To assume otherwise is patronising in the extreme. I would not make a judgement call such as the one I described without making very very very sure there were safeguards in place and people were able to make informed decisions, with the option of changing that decision if needed.
One more thing: the word "murder" describes a multitude of actions, as does "walk", "cook" and "cut". It matters very much that we look around things rather then assume.
Splitting hairs Bern and you know it. To bracket 'murder' in the same group as 'walk, cook and cut' demostrates a thought process that is more likely to end up on 'News at 10' with a tragic outcome, than either executing or banging up dangerous offenders.
What you are trying to do is laudible but at the end of the day, it is the innocent who pay the price. That cannot/should not be acceptable and to me, it isn't. I have no issue whatsoever with the rehabilitation of petty crooks and those who have committed minor, but imprisonable misdemeanours. But murderers? Why are they even allowed out on the streets? Their victim doesn't have that luxury!
I suspect we're going to lock horns on this, but I'll still buy you a pint when we meet.
You're on!!
Define "innocent" - it has as many definitions as "murder". The guy who kills someone in cold blood, plans and executes, is not the same character as the woman who kills an abuser, or the guy who kills the fella who abused him as a child. The French (pauses to spit) have a Crime of Passion, which is an interesting concept. But it isn't just murder - "crime" itsdelf is relative. If we really simply want criminals (whatever the definition) to stop doing it, we need to be more creative about how we think and behave in this matter.
I agree with your last sentence Bern. Execute ALL killers and sex offenders. Lock up for life armed robbers and muggers with no chance of parole.
Give community service (aka something worthwile for society) to the rest.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard,one of my faverites goes nice with a british banger as well as a bratworst.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
brian
you must be referring to an american one, bright yellow and fiery.
there was a stall at last years regatta that did an excellent cumberland sausage in a roll with that mustard at a very reasonable price.
not like the bleriot prices.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
howard,the ones from belguim and germany,much better qualaty than the american rubbish.
If you don't like the topic, leave the thread.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
bern,if you cant cut the mustard dont have any.