Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
I have before touched on the other big story that broke lat night.
That was the story of the abuse of children in some catholic priest run homes.
Some realy sad stories, and looks if the telly is correct that the catholics wanted the story to go away and were very slow to re act to it(so one of the Arch bishops stated last night)
Although this will probably turn out to be a minority of priests involved it will do a lot of damage to already falling numbers
wot do people think
Terry Nunn
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,302
All humans have sexual desires, to be celebate puts an enormous psychological strain on priests. They will vent their frustrations elsewhere.
I'm sorry but I cannot see why the catholic church continues with this idiotic system.
Terry
ps Just to be fair, similar things happen with unmarried C of E vicars.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
One of the reasons Rabbi's are expected to be married.
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
I agree with you to a point Terry, sex is the strongest of all human emotions however, sexually abusing children is abhorrent and cannot be justified in any shape or form.
This is part of a long history of child abuse within the Catholic Church, perhaps it is time that they looked at themselves and modified their rules a little.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i find it difficult believe that someone can go through life being celibate.
most faiths do not put this pressure on their vicars, imams, priests and rabbis.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
Yes as Dave1 says there is no justification for what has happened, and yes C of E have found wanting also.
There can be NO EXCUSE for what has happened
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i don't think that anyone has made excuses.
the point of the exercise is that the church should look at itself and decide how to make certain this sort of thing does not happen again.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
It sounded like being celebet was an excuse, well it never can be and yep howard church MUST urgently look to see to make sure this NEVER happens again
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
I must admit Keith I read it that way as well. The Roman Catholic Church has always tried to sweep the question of child abuse under the carpet which is just as abhorrent as those who have committed the crime.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
I speak as one that went through all the catholic schools, i could tell you a story or 3 but as has been said this cant be swept under the carpet needs urgent action to make sure it NEVER happens again
Child abuse is as old as history itself but we have only recently discovered that we can be appalled by it. It is less than one hundred years since kids were pushed up chimneys. The priests and nuns who victimised and traumatised the children for whom they were supposed to be caring should clearly not have done what they did - but look at the broader picture: the abuse was institutional and widespread, in and out of the church. It was a way of life which viewed those poor kids as somehow less than human and it was allowed to continue by the people running the country and running the show, who must also bear responsibility. I repeat what i have said before: faith and religions are not and should not be defined by the people who manipulate them for their own gratification. Faith and religion are sources of growth and spiritual fulfillment and should not be confuswd with the cults developed by the dysfunctional few.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
I thought that if you were a priest or a nun you lived by the teachings of the bible and were beyond being influenced by governments or what you term the broader picture.
Ah, this old chestnut. There are a lot of good right-minded individuals who follow Catholic rules (I know a few of them) but the Catholic church itself seems to be utterly corrupt at its core when it comes to sex abuse cases. These cases are so common than there are special funds and insurance policies under discussion to protect the church from lawsuits on the matter (I kid you not) -
http://www.slate.com/id/2170482/pagenum/all/
What's more the subject is big enough that Wikipedia has a special page devoted to the subject:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Church_sex_abuse_scandal
Oh, and then there's this little beauty:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/5389684.stm
Almost all religions attempt to control the masses in one form or another. Some attempt to make the masses share the same banal thoughts and ideas in order to indoctrinate, others do it for cash, and then you get the really bad ones that try and control sexual behaviour - which NEVER works - and often results in highly oppressed desires leading to perverse outletting. I have taken quite an interest in the Catholic church and its child abuse cases. We're all writing on here about it but I don't think any of us really understand just how rife it really is. It is SO common that one could almost be forgiven for believing it is institutionally ingrained in the belief system and that Catholic priests have the same sense of "entitlement" to the choir boys as our MPs have to the expenses claims.
I do think that the Catholic church is one of the most highly morally corrupt, perverse, broken religions in the world today. It preaches certain behaviours and reinforces these with massive guilt, and yet is fundamentally rotten at its core. It preaches against the use of condoms, especially in AIDS-stricken African nations, and expects a level of behaviour so unnatural as to almost deliberately set the follower up for guaranteed failure.
But hey, I don't hate Catholics, I actually feel sorry for most of them who are decent people following a rotten religious authority that forces harsh rules on them and STILL calls them sinners for the most trivial natural urge. No wonder many of them end up practicing unnatural acts!
You don't have to be religious to be a b*****d. The religion isn't the problem, it's the people who corrupt it and use it for their own ends. And it is the people who want to denigrate faith who latch on to the obvious failings and choose to ignore the benefits. Corruption and abuse of power is "natural" but we wouldn't advocate it, we would set up safeguards to contain and discourage it. Why should other "natural" failings be different? That is why we have an age of consent, why we have a legal age for marriage, why rape in marriage is illegal.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
most religions are corrupt in one form or another,along with most things these days.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
Bern I might be a bit thick here and misinterpreting what you are saying but are you suggesting that child abuse is a 'natural' failing, surely not.
Bern, we all know that power breeds corruption in one form or another and it is fairly reasonable to call this outcome "natural" but the point I am trying to stress is that the entire structure of the Catholic church and the ridiculously unrealistic expectations it places on its leaders and followers seems to foster sexual abuse as an inevitability. If natural sexual desires / urges / call them what you like are suppressed and a guilt-based brainwashing established then those natural urges are twisted to unnatural proportions and an abusive outcome is far more likely. The sheer volume of cases would seem to support this.
I don't think the Catholic church should fall, but it should update and reform and get into the 21st century - lighten up a bit! It's only sex weyhey!!
Of course child abuse isn't a natural failing, but there is a suggestion in a previous post that, in the absence of marriage, people may be tempted by other failings including abuse. By that token we might suggest that rape is the natural consequence of celibacy - clearly ridiculous!! It is not unnatural to be celibate, especially if one chooses to be so. Widows and widowers are often celibate through no choice of their own. Many single people choose not to fling themselves into bed with people without committment, and if they don't find committment will remain celibate quite properly and willingly. We do not have a "right" to sex!! Even in these days of Rights before Responsibilities surely there is no-one who would claim a "right" to sex!!? Sex is fun, loving, dirty, silly, a bit noisy and very slippy (or is that just me.....) but it is certainly not a human right!!!
You are right, the Catholic Church needs to morph, but not because you say so but because Catholics want it.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
nuff said
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
right then now we have an answer.
